EVERYTHING You've Been Taught About Manifesting IS WRONG! | Rhonda Byrne & Jay Shetty

Rhonda Byrne 0:00 Keep noticing who you are, noticing awareness. Asking yourself, "Am I aware?" is... It's so interesting because when you notice who you are, you feel this absolute relief travel all through your body, which means prior to that you were tense, you were holding on to life.

Jay Shetty 0:17 [upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, today I have the honor and privilege to sit down with one of my favorite authors, someone who has impacted millions of lives over the last couple of decades, and someone that I was just sharing with I never believed I'd ever get the opportunity to sit down with. Because back in 2006 and before when I was reading her work and interacting with the work that she was doing in the world, I never believed I'd get this opportunity. And so today I feel extremely grateful to be sitting down with the one and only Rhonda Byrne. And for those of you that don't know, and I mean there will literally be, like, 0.3% of you that may not know [laughs] uh, but is an internationally renowned bestselling author that is best known for a documentary and book titled The Secret. Rhonda's work has massively transformed millions of lives around the world, and her newest work is a continuation of her previous insights, and it's called The Greatest Secret. I've just finished reading this book. I genuinely cannot wait for it to be in your hands, and so we'll be putting the link to the book, uh, with the podcast. So make sure that you go and grab this whenever you have that moment during this conversation, uh, that you are accessing The Greatest Secret. Rhonda, welcome to On Purpose, and thank you so much for doing this.

Rhonda Byrne 1:53 Oh, Jay, thank you so much. Do you know, as you were doing that intro I got very teary because, uh, just, uh, when you're mentioning changing the lives of millions of people, I really... To this day, you know, it, uh, it, um, it just affects me. It's so humbling. And, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll receive a letter from somebody, and it's honestly, it's like the very first time that I've read a letter and somebody's life has changed. And it's never altered over the years. It just affects me the same way. [laughs] So I just had a total meltdown listening to you then. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:27 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 2:27 So thank you. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:28 Oh, that's amazing. I, I love hearing that because, uh, I feel so similarly that it's such a honor and, and humbling opportunity to have an impact on anyone. And so I, I, I love hearing you say that, and it's so beautiful. And I, I know I heard recently that you actually moved, and you moved home. Is that true?

Rhonda Byrne 2:54 That's true, yes. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:54 And, and I was gonna, I was gonna start there because I almost feel like the act of moving is such an interesting journey in and of itself, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And, and I wanted to ask you what your move was like, and what that journey was like on each of those levels.

Rhonda Byrne 3:14 Well, I love it because you always end up by throwing material things out. You know, I don't need this, and I don't need that. So it's, it's a real cleansing to move, I think, and go through everything, and I don't need any of these things anymore. And, and I mean, sometimes I give away things, and then I'm like, "Oh gosh, I really did need that." But who cares? You know, who cares? But do you know, can you believe this? I moved, um, next door to where I was. Next door, right?

Jay Shetty 3:44 Oh, wow.

Rhonda Byrne 3:45 Is that cra- [laughs] is that crazy or what? And so, um, I'm on a, I'm on a property that is, uh, 85 acres of orchards, and avocados, and oranges, and lemons, and all of those things. And what absolutely gets me all of the time in life, and I never tire of it, is the way that life or the universe always lines up everything I've ever loved in my life.

Jay Shetty 4:14 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 4:15 And so alw- always, absolutely always, like, open fires, and this property has deer walking all over it, and for me coming from Australia, we don't have deer in Australia. And so it's just, oh my, it was so amazing to wake up in the morning and there are deer outside my, [laughs] my bedroom window. And I mean, just squirrels jumping everywhere. And so yeah, I... It was, um, it was really, really beautiful. A beautiful move actually. And it was effortless, absolutely effortless. Um, and, uh, and kind of anew. You know, when you move it's sort of anew. But then at the same time, you take you with you wherever you go, right?

Jay Shetty 5:03 Yes.

Rhonda Byrne 5:03 And so, um, and so it's always really good to just be working on the inner part of ourselves because then when you take you with you, you have a fabulous life. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 5:15 [laughs] What, what was the thing that you were happy to let go of physically or emotionally of that space, and what was something that you rediscovered maybe that you'd forgotten about that you thought, "Oh, I actually am excited to take this with me"?

Rhonda Byrne 5:33 Actually, I had moved a year earlier, so I'd had a massive cleanse when I moved. I had been in a really, really, really big house for, like, 15 years. And so that was amazing because I was just giving away every- [laughs] everything. "Do you... Would you like this? Would you like this?" And so this move wasn't as great, um, because I'd already cleaned everything out for the year before. And so let me think. I mean, the things that I loved about the house that I was in was- The incredible sunrises and sunsets, and that I got to see those. That house had massive orange trees everywhere, and so the orange blossom was absolutely intoxicating. I think, Jay, do you know all the things I love in life are the things that are free. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 6:22 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 6:23 You know? They're not, they're not anything that kind of money buys. And, um, and the house was, that I was in was full of light, um, and absolutely beautiful. But then the house that I've moved to... And it didn't have open fires, the other house, and I love open fires. And then the house that I've moved to has open fires, it has all of the light, it has the orange trees, the orange blossom. It has a beautiful view across the ocean, oceanfront views, so it has the sunrises and the sunsets. And, uh, so it's just everything kind of lined up for me with, with the house that I'm in, um, after being in the previous house. But I'm trying to think of things that, you know, really I think I just gave away mostly kind of clothes and things like that, and a few appliances, and, um, yeah, just, just sort of things like that, you know?

Jay Shetty 7:17 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 7:17 Not, uh... In my previous house I gave away everything. I gave away barbecues, um, I was, like, saying to people, "Do you need a juicer? Do you need this? Do you need that?" And I was just giving away absolutely everything, which I love. And do you know, when I moved from Australia to the United States, this was just prior to The Secret being released, I came with two suitcases. That was it. I left my home, everything that I had collected over, gosh, 20 years or whatever it was, I left it all behind and I came here with two s- two suitcases, and it was for the release of The Secret. And I just intuitively knew that the United States would be the country that lit The Secret up first, and that I needed to be in the States. So, uh, so I tra- I traveled to y- I had two suitcases, and then everything that I owned back there, I gave it away. [laughs] I gave it all away.

Jay Shetty 8:14 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 8:14 Absolutely everything, yeah. Except for two things. Two things that I br- that I ended up by having shipped over. That one you can see behind me there, that tapestry, right? Can you see that?

Jay Shetty 8:28 Yes, yes, I can see it.

Rhonda Byrne 8:29 And see, and see that Buddha?

Jay Shetty 8:31 Yes.

Rhonda Byrne 8:31 That Bu- that Buddha.

Jay Shetty 8:32 I love that.

Rhonda Byrne 8:33 And those two things I, th- those two things I brought with me. They were just, like, really special to me. But everything else I gave away. So I'm really good at letting things go, and just... Actually, I'm great now at letting things go. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 8:46 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 8:46 Um, especially, uh, especially material things. I'm not really attached, Jay, anymore, you know?

Jay Shetty 8:53 Mm.

Rhonda Byrne 8:53 I used to... I had decades of attachment and, um, and I don't think attachment in the end's a lot of fun. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:01 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 9:02 So.

Jay Shetty 9:02 Absolutely.

Rhonda Byrne 9:03 I mean, it's really beautiful, and I have all of open space here, and I think that that reflects the way that I feel inside, and my journey of The Greatest Secret is just, like, this freedom and, uh, and openness to life, and just this trust and faith in life, this total faith.

Jay Shetty 9:24 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 9:24 That life has got everything under control.

Jay Shetty 9:28 Yes.

Jay Shetty 9:29 Well, let's, let's start there at the beginning of The Greatest Secret. You, you share this beautiful thought around how, you know, what keeps us from the greatest secret is a belief. Uh, and I really liked how despite the incredible success of The Secret, you've continued on this journey to continually seek for a deeper secret, and the greatest secret, as you call it, and you say that a belief has been blocking us this whole time from this secret. Tell us about this belief. Where does this block of a belief come from, and how has it created such a strong hold on each and every single one of us?

Rhonda Byrne 10:21 Well, the belief is that we are separate, and that we are individual, and that all that we consist of, all that makes us up, is just a body and a mind. And I think the majority of people would consider that they're a body and a mind, and the name that they've been given, and the story, uh, of their life, and I was born here, and parents did this, and I do this for a living, and siblings, and the story that we then c- we identify with and carry around with us. And, and, and those stories, the stor- it doesn't matter what the story is [laughs] , it doesn't matter how fabulous your life has been, it does not compare to who we really are. And so we have this belief that we are limited, basically, in a nutshell. That we're a limited individual, that we're born and then we die, and, and that's kind of it. And the truth is we are, we are so much more than that. We are certainly having the experience of being an individual, and we're certainly having the experience, having a human experience, but ultimately it is not who we are, and we were never born, and we never die. And we are... If I were to sum up everything that we are, it's almost the opposite to everything we strive to be. So we are all the intelligence that there is, we are all the beauty that there is, we're all the happiness that there is. We are pure love without any judgment whatsoever. Um, we are complete and utter freedom, which is why freedom means so much to us, why we will fight and struggle to be free. Uh, and so we... And, and we have total knowing of absolutely everything in the moment of knowing it. We are infinite, and we are eternal, and that is what is actually experiencing this- ... particular form. And so we have a belief that we are an individual, that we're separate, that we're born, and that we die. And our mind reaffirms that over and over and over again through all of its thoughts and with everything we say, s- with every thought and every single thing that we say. And actually, doesn't the world affirm that over and over, that we're s- that we're separate? Um, but we are unlimited. We are absolute perfection. And, and I'm not talking about the name or the ego. I'm not talking about that, 'cause we, we all can see what egos can get up to. You know, they can get ... They can cause a lot of trouble. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:10 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 13:10 Egos wa- egos want approval, they want attention, they want to be right all the time. They judge all of the time. And so, you know, they're, they're not, they're not something to, uh, to attach ourselves to and to identify with when we are this incredible being that is blissful happiness. And so, um, and so we can have a life where we are, are living as an individual human, having a, an individual human experience, but from the perspective of the infinite being that we are, in which case we will never be touched by negativity, no matter what happens, and we will remain in lasting happiness no matter what. And it is ... And this has been my journey, really, from The Secret to, to now. Um, and I was searching seven days a week. I was ... Jay, I am just like, [laughs] I was just like one of those crazy people. I'm like, if this, there is this law that governs our mind, then there is definitely way, way more to discover. And so I just searched and searched in religions and spiritual traditions and read thousands of books, and it wasn't 'til 2016 that I had the f- experience where I realized who we are. And I was like, why haven't I seen this? Why [laughs] haven't I ... What is it? How could I have missed this? And, uh, and from that moment of realizing that, there was this happiness that arose inside of me. And then with everything that I did from 2016 to 2020, that happiness just became deeper and deeper. And, and then I would just notice things like that person, you know, when they would do something or other, they used to bother me a lot. They don't bother me anymore, and how was I ever bothered by that? And that particular subject doesn't bother me anymore. And so I was just finding that I wasn't reacting to life. Uh, my r- the reactions were all dissolving. I didn't ... Judgment was dissolving. I was just, whatever was happening, I'm like, it's fine. It'll be okay. And, and so with letting go of all of those things, including the belief that we're a limited being, um, we become free, really truly free. And then we will live a life that's described as heaven on Earth, or Nirvana, um, a life where we know we don't die, and the body ends, sure, but, but who we are does not. And so yeah, that's been, [laughs] that's been my journey. That's been my journey.

Jay Shetty 16:02 Yeah. Well, well, it's beautiful hearing it because I was very fortunate enough to at least learn about that intellectually when I was 18 and I first met the monks that I lived with. And then when I went and lived as a monk for three years in India and across Europe when I was 22 to 25, the texts that we studied, uh, whether it was the Vedas or the Gita, introduced me to that at least intellectually. And I say at least intellectually because I believe that a lot of these ideas begin at intellect before they truly become realized.

Rhonda Byrne 16:40 Yeah. You're absolutely right.

Jay Shetty 16:42 And-

Rhonda Byrne 16:42 And, um, and I think in 2016, you know, it was, it was an ... it was a realization of who I am, but had I ... Was I completely living that? No. I remember thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I've lost it now."

Jay Shetty 16:56 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 16:56 You know? I, I had it, and now I've lost it. And of course you can't lose it, 'cause it's who you are. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:02 Yeah. [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 17:02 You know? But, but, but, but you've gotta go ... You've kinda gotta go on this, a bit of a journey. You, you don't have to. There are some people that, oh, gosh, they will just hear it, and that's it. They will live it. They will live like that for the rest of their life.

Jay Shetty 17:18 Yes.

Rhonda Byrne 17:18 And they, they are just in joy. And I've had some letters from, from some people that that has happened to. [laughs] For me, it was more of a journey, and, uh, uh, but oh, wow, when you just ... In, it ... Definitely intellectually is the beginning.

Jay Shetty 17:38 Yes.

Rhonda Byrne 17:38 And there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Jay Shetty 17:42 Yes.

Rhonda Byrne 17:42 Because that's where, right, that's where you start.

Jay Shetty 17:45 Absolutely.

Rhonda Byrne 17:45 And then, and then it's sort of the diligence to keep noticing, um, who you are, noticing awareness. You know, noticing, uh, asking yourself, "Am I aware?" is, you know, one, one way, one way to begin. Am I aware? And even in The Secret I talk about that. You know, remember to remember that you're aware, and to be aware. And so it ... You just keep coming back to noticing who you are. It's so interesting, because when you notice who you are, you feel this absolute relief travel all through your body, which means prior to that you were tense. You were holding on to life, you know, the kind of white-knuckle and everything. And so, um, I mean, I just ... Oh my gosh, it's just like this incredible thing that we [laughs] that we have. And, and, and then, you know, and then you look out and you see people suffering and, um, and that part's, you know, really challenging because you, you, you want to help everybody and so, so that they don't suffer anymore. And, um, I, I remember with my t- [laughs] I remember with my teacher really early on, and I would be like, "Oh, I've lost it, I've lost it, and, and, uh, and why don't I have it all of the time?" And she said, she would say, "Oh, because you haven't suffered enough" [laughs] is what she-

Jay Shetty 19:09 Oh

Rhonda Byrne 19:09 ... would say to me. You need to suffer some more, you know? And then, and then you really, really, really... It's gonna mean more to you than anything else in, in life. And, uh, yeah. So it's, it's a wonderful thing. But oh my gosh, in your 20s, Jay, heaven.

Jay Shetty 19:27 I remember learning that definition which you describe so beautifully of Sat-Chit-Ananda, and the idea that we are full of knowledge eternal and full of bliss. And I, I remember one of the ways we were trained to understand that is we had no mirrors in the ashram, and without a mirror you lost conception of your physical self because you no longer could check how you looked. And the other one was, I remember when I first started, I would... and I know you use the beautiful word awareness in The Greatest Secret. I remember I used to write on a little Post-it Note, when I'd wake up in the morning I'd have it next to my bedside table, and then on the, uh, by the place where I brush my teeth, that I am awareness. Uh-

Rhonda Byrne 20:11 Oh, thank you. Really

Jay Shetty 20:12 ... to, to remind... Yeah, yeah

Rhonda Byrne 20:14 Oh my gosh, that's beautiful. Oh my gosh. Yes

Jay Shetty 20:15 ... yeah, to remind myself, to remind myself in the morning to wake up with the understanding that I'm not this body.

Rhonda Byrne 20:23 Oh, brilliant. That is brilliant. People should do that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:26 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 20:26 People should do that. I mean, that is absolutely fantastic. Yeah. I am awareness. Because the moment that you say... Like, our mind can't comprehend awareness. It can't, it can't comprehend it. The mind is sitting in awareness. And so, and so the really beautiful thing is, is that saying something like, I am awareness, or am I aware, the mind just goes quiet. You know? Just really quickly. And one, when the mind's quiet, then all that there is is awareness, or consciousness, or whatever. It... the word doesn't matter. You know, I tried to choose the word that I felt was the simplest that people could kind of understand, but m- the moment the mind drops, there, there is awareness. And so, and so, huh, I love that. I am awareness. Love it. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 21:17 Oh, thank you. Yeah. It was, uh, you know, it's... That's why when I was reading your book, and I hope you can tell, like when I was reading your book I felt so happy, uh, because when you were sharing this was the greatest secret, I, I couldn't agree with you more. I, I, I don't think there is, is a deeper secret at the beginning of knowledge. And we were always, we were always told that this is the first lesson you'll learn and, and the one that will take you a whole life to live, like to actually practice. Uh, and, and, and, and so when I was reading the book I was just... It was so beautiful for me because I, I could totally see how much you care for people and, and for what journey you want them to take. But isn't it fascinating that we almost... And you said something really beautiful, and you talk about it in the book about how actually we are free and we have complete freedom, but we limit ourselves. But isn't it fascinating that we think that the body and mind keep us

Jay Shetty 22:17 safe? So like the very things that are actually keeping us imprisoned, we think that they are our safety.

Rhonda Byrne 22:25 Totally. And don't you think, you know, also with what's happened in the last year that, that we had this idea, or, or, or, or most people have this idea that they work really, really hard to get safety and security. You know? To accrue things, and to have money in the bank, and to have a house, and all of those t- all of those things to have safety and security. And this world event that came along shook that, and actually showed everybody what is the truth, and that is that we will never find safety and security in the world. And the reason we won't is it's always changing. Always changing. But we are the only safety and security in existence. [laughs] We're it. We're trying to get on the outside what we are on the inside. And that is not to say to, to enjoy this incredible world. I mean, this is a miracle. This is miraculous, this, this experience of this world, and it is here for us to enjoy in every way that each person wants to enjoy it. But to know who we are, to, to instead of spending a whole life trying to fill ourselves from the outside world, which will never, ever work, is to spend just a little bit of time [laughs] on the inside, like waking up to I am awareness, and, or asking, am I aware? And one of the things that I found that was really fantastic, and there are so many incredible practices, and I'm sure, oh my gosh, you would have done so many fabulous ones I would love to hear about them. Um, one of the things that all of the things in The Greatest Secret, all of the things that I did, and the teachers that are in The Greatest Secret were my journey, all of them, from The Secret through to now. Every single one of them changed my life in, in one way or another. Some I followed for a couple of years and, um, and some for a month and, but all of those teachers played a really, really big part in my life. And so the practice in The Greatest Secret- That had the greatest effect on me, and that I would say for anybody is the best thing you can ever, ever, ever do, and that is to never resist negative emotions, and instead to do the exact opposite, which is what we have not been [laughs] told to do, which is the opposite to resistance is to welcome. So resist is push away, and welcome is to pull in.

Jay Shetty 25:22 Embrace, yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 25:23 Embrace, exactly. Exactly, and to embrace those negative emotions because the most incredible thing happens when we do embrace them, when we allow them to be there, when we don't try and change them, when we don't try and m- w- when we don't want to make them go or, or, or do anything but just allow them to be there. They just evaporate. They just evaporate, and the more that you do it, the faster they evaporate. 'Cause when I started, I would feel a strong emotion, and it would maybe last 30 seconds, 45 seconds or something like that, and then gradually, gradually ebb away. But the more that I welcome, the weaker they get. Each time you welcome a negative emotion, it just gets weaker, weaker, weaker, weaker until you don't have a trace of that negative emotion in the body at all anymore, and when you don't have a trace of it, you're never gonna feel it.

Jay Shetty 26:16 Explain to us, as you do in the book, what does it mean to truly embrace and welcome a negative feeling? What does that mean in practice? Because I, I couldn't agree with you more, and just to help people as they're listening and watching, they're thinking, "You know what? I just, right now am just... There's so much negativity in the world. I'm watching the news. I'm stressed out about this. My kids are at home. I'm having to homeschool." How do they welcome that? And, and I agree with you. We, we resist completely. We don't want to feel negative.

Rhonda Byrne 26:44 Well, you don't want to 'cause it's, it's not pleasant, you know, feeling negative feelings. So, and so when you f- when you feel a negative feeling arising in you, n- notice the feeling. Don't focus into the feeling because if you focus into it, you'll just make it stronger. The mind is really powerful [laughs] , so don't focu- focus into it, but notice the feeling, and so, and just welcome it. So it's almost like you, you could imagine just putting your arms out like this, uh, arms out to the side of you and just allowing the feeling, which is simply energy, that's all it is, even fear, it's just energy, and just allowing it to pass on through. One thing that I did was I would imagine putting my arms around and embracing the feeling and, and pulling the feeling in close to me, and I just found that that was amazing for me. I think people can try all kinds of different things. Like I just imagine that that feeling was one of my oldest, dearest friends that I love so much that I hadn't seen in decades, and they arrived at my door, and I was just like could not get my arms around them fast enough, and that is what I imagined with each of the feelings. And I mean, at o- at one point in my life, I did that with depression, and so I wrap- and that's really how I learned how powerful this practice is because, uh, when I wrapped my arms around the depression, it just dissolved, and h- and the relief, I mean, the relief that you feel when a negative [laughs] feeling dissolves is so good. It's worth every ce- it's like a high, and the h- and the reason it's like a high is because when you dissolve the feeling, there's you underneath and who you really are, and so you get a flash of who you really are, this kind of joy and happiness. And so yeah, that's what I did. I would embrace the feeling and hold it in without focusing on it. Notice it, but don't focus into the feeling, and, and just let it dissolve, and I promise the next time you feel that feeling, it will never be as strong when you do it. And so you do the same thing the next time that feeling arises, and then the time after that it's going to be weaker. It just gets weaker and weaker and weaker until you get to a point where you're like, "I can't remember the last time that I got angry. I just can't remember. When did I ever get angry?" You know? You're just... Or agitated or impatient or... And so you do it with every feeling. So, so my, to give people a really good guide, I would say that unless you're feeling really happy, joyously happy, welling up inside of you, you have a negative feeling. Pretty good. You don't need to know what the name of it is to welcome it. You just welcome it. You, it doesn't matter about [laughs] its name. Doesn't matter what it is. Just welcome the feeling or embrace the feeling or allow the feeling to be there, and then you will begin to desol- dissolve these negative feelings that are actually masking who you are. The more you dissolve them, the greater the happiness that rises within you.

Jay Shetty 30:12 Hmm. Beautiful. I, I love that, and, uh, I encourage everyone right now who's listening and watching to, to do that practice, to give it a go, to experience it and experiment with it because what Rhonda's saying is, is something that it needs to be experienced. It needs to be felt. It needs to be put into practice. It's, it's not something that you need to overthink or overanalyze. Actually do it and, and feel it, and you'll figure out how it works for you. Rhonda, I'm, I'm intrigued. What, what is the first thing you do in the morning to start your day? What is it that you do that you feel starts your day? Because I feel that a lot of the times what I'm noticing, especially now in the culture we live in, whether it's reaching for our phone, whether it's looking at the news- We- we're starting our day with energy that's already putting us in the wrong direction, or pushing us in the wrong direction. What, what are you doing? What are you encouraging people to do first thing in the morning to start with this understanding that we are awareness, to start with this understanding that negative feelings need to be embraced?

Rhonda Byrne 31:20 It's so amazing, 'cause the first thing I do now is I lay in bed and as awareness. So I be awareness. And I just lay there for a particular amount of time just feeling the joy and the freedom of the eternal being that we are, and, uh, and just lay in awareness. And so that's what I do absolutely every single morning. And what's extraordinary now, I mean, at the beginning it was like I felt like I had to [laughs] remember to do that, remember to do that, but that doesn't even kind of make sense. But I, I... That's what I felt. I felt like I had to remember to do it. And now, at the moment I open my eyes is just awareness just fills the room, and the joy just fills the room. And so I lay, I lay in that. Prior to that, I would wake up every day in gratitude.

Jay Shetty 32:17 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 32:17 Yeah. Prior to that was gratitude was... And you know, Jay, even now if life gets a bit, um, bumpy or, or something happens, just something not m- really negative, but just something where everything isn't flowing, then I will just look at gratitude and, and through awareness just be so grateful for the fact that we are this infinite being and that no one dies. I'm so grateful to be aware of this and to know this. I, it's quite... Y- y- you know, it's... That's also quite humbling that somehow or another in this lifetime is that I had this awakening and realization of this. And, um, because a- as you say, I agree with you 100%, I... There is nothing greater than knowing who you are. There's nothing. There will never be anything greater than that. A thousand years from now, 10,000 years from now, nothing will be greater than knowing who you are and being who you are. And it's just step by step, little step by step. And now's a really good time because the ego is being challenged. The mind is being challenged. It's being hit on all sides with, with the disharmony and the, and the, and the disruption on the planet. And so now is the best time ever-

Jay Shetty 33:48 Yeah

Rhonda Byrne 33:48 ... to really, like, welcome those emotions and, and to look toward, to look in the direction of who, who you are instead of who you are not.

Jay Shetty 34:00 Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And, and I just wanna address because I feel like someone may be listening to us and thinking, "Well, well, Rhonda, Jay, how does this help me be successful, be happy, live the life I want? How does... You know, how does this create it?" And I just wanna, and I wanna dive into what Rhonda's gonna have to say f- about this, but I just wanna address it from, from how I see it. The understanding is very simple that as Rhonda's saying, we're not our body. And if we think we're our body, we will surround ourselves with things that are good for the body. But if we're not the body, then none of those things can actually satisfy us. And an example that we'd always learned from the Vedic tradition was a fish out of water, that if you took a fish out of water, you could give it a mansion, you could give it a car, you could give it jewelry, you could give it money, but that fish will die because it's not in water. It's not where it belongs, and it isn't in its natural habitat. And, and so similarly, understanding that we are awareness gives us the opportunity to do what is right for us as awareness to truly feed that awareness. Because I think the challenge that we think about when we think about success or happiness, we think of success and happiness on the basis of the body and the mind. And that's why even after accumulating everything, we still feel dissatisfied because those things only touch the body and mind. Correct, Rhonda?

Rhonda Byrne 35:30 Correct. Correct. And, and, and really the best thing that could happen to everybody is that their greatest dream comes true. Because when your greatest dream comes true, the dream that where you are absolutely convinced that when this dream comes true, that is when I will really be happy. The best thing that can happen is that dream comes true because when it does, you will realize that there is something missing, and that happiness that you thought you would have doesn't last. And so, uh, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's such a beautiful thing and for people who have been successful, then they get to that point and they're like, they're not happy. And they're not happy because those things were never going to make you happy in the first place anyway. And so, um, but in terms of success, I would say this, that when you are who you really are, when you're living from the place more of who you are than who you are not, everything that you need and want will fall into your hands effortlessly. And you are actually, the infinite being is effortless. And the way to kind of tell who's in charge is whether it's the ego or the mind that's in charge or, or who you really are that is in charge in any moment, is effort. And if you're efforting, if you can feel this efforting, then it's the ego and the mind. And if you're coming from a place of effortlessness, where athletes call it being in the flow, and everybody has these kind of descriptions, it's where the mind has stopped. And just everything is flowing. It's... You just feel like everything in the universe is just dancing your dance and singing to your song. And so in terms of success, when you are being more of who you are, that idea that was going to make you successful is what will come to you. That original idea because the mind just recycles. That's all it can do. It's a program and recycles. And the ideas that business, kind of business ideas that have never been on Earth, they are coming from awareness. They are coming from above the mind. So when you are awareness, that is when everything will fall into your hands, everything that you need, and it just, your whole life flows and you're just happy all of the time. Like, there is... It's just like the universe is just saying, and I even wrote in The Secret, you know, the shortcut to the secret is be happy now, right? Just be happy. Let go of all of the things that, that you're saying why you can't be happy, and just be happy now because when you're happy, everything just [laughs] everything just falls into place. It's so amazing. So definitely for success, that is the fastest, fastest way to success is to be who you are.

Jay Shetty 38:34 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 38:34 And, um, it's not... You don't n- We're not talking about going in a cave or, you know, or doing anything like that. We are talking about living your life in the incredible form and human being that you are, and having the experience that you are but from a place of knowing that you are the infinite being, that you are immortal. And we are taught, as Jay said, it's got to be through your experience. It can't be through, oh, I heard, you know, Rhonda talk about this and whatever. No, not interested in you taking on another belief. What, what it is is for you to experience it, and it is not hard for you to experience it because it's who you are already. It's not anything that you have to go out and get. In some ways it's almost frustrating, isn't it?

Jay Shetty 39:21 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 39:21 I remember when I started out, I'm like, it's who I am already. But at the time, you know, it'd be like I can tell the mind's g- the mind's taken over at the moment. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 39:31 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 39:31 And yeah, it's already who we are. And so we've just... What we've done is we've attributed everything that is awareness to the mind.

Jay Shetty 39:41 Mm.

Rhonda Byrne 39:41 We've given the mind the whole thing, and it's awareness that is hearing these words right now. That is what's hearing these words, right? That is what is seeing, uh, through these eyes. It's awareness. It's w- Without awareness we wouldn't even know we're alive.

Jay Shetty 40:01 Exactly. Well, well, that's, that's the thing, Rhonda, that, you know, I've, I've heard a lot of people say that when they first saw an autopsy or they went to a funeral, that's when they realized they weren't the body. Like, that was when they've... If you've ever... If you haven't seen an autopsy, I recommend everyone finds a way to visit the hospital and see... To, to see, to see that allows us to disconnect from we're not this physical body. We get that. But I feel that for a lot of people, like you rightly said, it's difficult to think we're not the mind because, like you said, we have given the mind all of awareness. We think that that is us. So, so I think a lot of people are getting to the understanding that we are not this body. I think, I think people can get there to some degree, at least in their mind. But then a lot of us struggle to get behind the, well, if I'm not the mind, then, then what else is there? Tell us about how you start seeing the d- the, the... Tell us about how you start seeing the fallibility of us thinking we're the mind.

Rhonda Byrne 41:06 So let's just investigate and look at the, look at the mind and what the mind is. And so it's really good for you to find out what the mind is, especially considering that most of us have given it total authority over our life, and we believe all of the thoughts that it produces, and which is the voice in your head, and the voice in your head is not who you are. So that was a really big revelation for me. So, so all that the mind is made of is thought. Beginning to end, full stop. It's thought. And so it's memory, which is thought, and it has images, which is just thought in pictures, but it's still thought, and the current thoughts that we think. Uh, and so all that the mind is is made of thought. And so without a single thought, and check for yourself, the mind isn't there. If there's no thought, there's no mind. And so when you begin to look at that and investigate that, then it's really quite interesting. But then so, so now we know that the mind is just thought, and therefore, when a thought comes and a thought goes, if we were our mind, then that means that when a thought comes and when a thought goes, a little bit of us would go with it. And then when a thought comes and a thought goes, a little bit more of us would go with the thought if we were our mind. A bit of us would be disappearing with every single thought. But if you look at it, guess what? You are there, aware, before a thought comes, and you're there after it leaves. So how can you be the mind? And the other thing is what is aware of the thoughts in your head? [laughs] Awareness is aware of the thoughts in your head because a thought is not aware. A thought has no awareness whatsoever. And so the one that is aware of the thoughts is who you really are. And so when you start to, and just sort of sit with this a little bit, I'm not suggesting that, oh, in this moment you're like, oh, I know I'm not the mind. But if you just kind of sit with this, and next time when you've got a whole lot of thoughts coming through your head- That you remember this and, and l-, and think about it. Oh, I was here before all of these thoughts, and I am here, still here after they go, fully intact. None of me has disappeared. And what was it that was aware? Because you could, you could even ask this question, am I the thoughts that I think, or am I the one that is aware of those thoughts?

Jay Shetty 43:51 We never say, I mind, we say my mind or my body, or we say my car because we realize that we are not it, right? You don't say I mind, you, you, you know. So it's, it's so clear to us in our, even our language that it's my mind. That means my mind belongs to something that is me, and hence the question is, who am I? Because it's my body and my mind, and I think what you just shared so beautifully is exactly that, is that it is something that is existing beyond the purview of the mind and thought simply. And for anyone who's wondering and trying to intellectually wrap their head around this, the reason why it's so powerful to understand this is because then the negativities of the mind and the body start to affect you less because you realize that they are not you and that they are not your life. Uh, and, and that's the key that, you know, if anyone's wondering, well, how does this help me? That's how it helps you, is because you start to recognize that what happens to the body, just like if your car has an accident, you may feel a little bit of pain, but you don't feel the same pain as when something affects your body directly, and that the car is a shell. And so similarly, you start realizing that I'm a driver inside my body and my mind. And so even though my body's hurt, yes, obviously I need to go to the hospital and take care of it, of course, but that still isn't me.

Rhonda Byrne 45:26 No. And, um, and you know, Lester Levenson, who is in the, um... who's no longer in physical form, but who's quoted in The Greatest Secret, and he would say that, uh, that our mind is, was, is just being created for one reason and one reason only, and that is to create what we want. That's it, full stop. That's its job, that's its tool, to create what we want in this life and what we want to experience in, in this life. And that it's not our psychiatrist, psychologist, psychotherapist [laughs] and tells us what to do and, and believing our thoughts. And I, Jay, I believed my thoughts for decades. [laughs] So I just, I just, it's just amazing that you would believe these thoughts in your head. And, and if, if people just notice the next time, and I hope there's no next time, but that you feel agitated or negative emotional, feel stressed, it's because you were believing a whole lot of negative thoughts. That's it. You were just believing thoughts. And, and then that sends you, you know, into, into negativity. And so our freedom is the mind is wonderful, fantastic tool. Nothing wrong with the mind. The only problem comes with the mind is when we think it is who we are.

Jay Shetty 46:46 Mm. Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 46:47 That's the only problem.

Jay Shetty 46:48 And, and you give this analogy, which I loved. You talk about how we're in this dream state, uh, and, and there's a need for awakening from that because when you're asleep, right, when you're asleep... And I think a lot of people feel that. I thi- I think people right now feel an awakening in their life that's coming. Tell us about the awakening you're speaking about.

Rhonda Byrne 47:14 I just think you know when you've woken up. [laughs] I just think you know-

Jay Shetty 47:17 [laughs]

Rhonda Byrne 47:18 ... when you've woken up because, um, like if you're wondering, oh, am I asleep now? Have I woken up? [laughs] I just... When you wake up, you feel incredible. You feel so much lighter than you've ever felt. You feel so much freer, happier. Uh, life just becomes miraculous. Everything is a miracle. The little things that, that you just kind of ignored before now are just things that will bring you to your knees because the sheer beauty and love of those things, like sunsets. And I remember in my life, I would hear people speak of these things, and I remember I used to think, oh, you know, I just need to be able to pay my bills. You know, forget about sunsets and all that kind of thing, you know. But, uh, but as you, as you awaken, it's, it's, uh, it frees, it just frees you from all of the, all of the limitations and all of the conditioning that we've all had in our lives. No one's to blame for that. It's just kind of part of the journey. And you, you just, you just become free. The feeling is incredible. And you, and people can have lots of little awakenings, can they not, you know, along the way, like a little...

Jay Shetty 48:35 Yeah.

Rhonda Byrne 48:35 And it's usually when you've seen through some belief that, um, you're like, oh my gosh, I used to believe that, and that isn't true. And then you just suddenly feel lighter and freer. And so awakening is just a big one of those. It's just a, a huge sort of realization. It's, it's like a wow moment, but instead it's a wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow moment. [laughs] Everyone can have it. There isn't anybody that is, that i- that can't have it. Everybody can have it because it's who you are already.

Jay Shetty 49:10 What are some of the daily rituals that people can do to experience what you're speaking about? Because as we both know, it's not a, it's, it isn't a life hack, or it isn't an app download, or it isn't a, you know, it, i- it isn't, it isn't a mechanical, operational, logistical... ... read this three page, you know, it's not that. So what is it? Like, how do we make it more tangible for our tangible minds? Because our minds are wanting to do something daily and repetitively because it is repetition. There, there is repetition. What would you say we can do daily?

Rhonda Byrne 49:48 Well, one of the things that, that you can do which, which really helps disidentify with the body and the mind is to, is to take, uh ... So t- let me see. So first of all, take your body and, um, and just put your body aside over there because you are not the body. So just, like, put that aside for the moment. That is not who you are. You c- you can pick up the body in, in a minute or two but just put the body aside. And then put aside your name and the age and the description of you. And also put a- put aside the story of who you think you are. Put all of that aside. So now the body's aside, the story's aside, um, all of those other things are aside. Now what you're going to do is you're going to take the mind and just for a moment you're gonna put the mind aside, and that includes all memory and all thoughts and all feelings, and you're just going to put that aside as well. Just pop that aside, and now very quickly notice what is left because what is left is awareness. And so that is one way that's a really good way in the beginning to come back to awareness, and it's like ... I think in ancient traditions some of them spoke about it's like peeling the onion, right?

Jay Shetty 51:14 Mm.

Rhonda Byrne 51:15 So instead of us accruing, we all ... We think we have to pile on all this knowledge and everything. We go, go through life and, you know, I need to learn more and I need to accrue more and I need to get all of these degrees. And all of that has its place, but it's never gonna set you free. And so peeling away what we are not and seeing awareness is what will set you free. And once you can get to the place, I mean, honestly the way that I did it was ... And I f- I put it in the book, and it was three, and it's three steps. I would ask myself mult- multiple, multiple times in the day, am I aware? And the moment I would ask am I aware, awareness would be there. There would be this awareness. And then I would go about my day, and then I would ask again, am I aware? So I did that constantly. That's a practice to do constantly. After a when, actually really short amount of time, um, days really, uh, or a week or two weeks, when you go to ask am I aware you can't even ask the question because awareness is just completely there immediately. Like, immediately. And so the second step is the first step transforms into the second step. So you go from asking the question am I aware to automatically noticing awareness. So then lots of times in the day notice awareness. And then the third step is stay as awareness, and the second step merges into the first step because when you notice awareness enough, then you're going to find that you are staying as awareness more. And so what happens is, just so people understand, what happens is the mind is kind of in the f- potentially for many in the foreground at the moment and sort of running your life, and, um, and awareness is so quietly, beautifully, magnificently, quietly sitting in the background. But when you ask the question, when you notice awareness, stay as awareness, what happens is there's a total shift and awareness comes to the foreground and the mind goes to the background. And that way you can use the mind whenever you need to use the mind. It's great to make a date, like for us [laughs] doing this podcast. It's really great for things like that. But then you can stay as awareness, and then your life is just absolutely effortless and you just have incredible happiness and, ugh, that's, that's where it all is.

Jay Shetty 53:56 I love that, Rhonda. That's ... It's been beautiful discussing this with you because I love that you're really ... I, I really do believe it is this. You're really challenging all your readers and, and the people in the world to go beyond-

Rhonda Byrne 54:10 Yes

Jay Shetty 54:10 ... uh, the body and the mind, which really means to go beyond the desires of the body and the mind, which is really difficult because we've been trained to believe that the desires of the body and the mind are what will make us happy. And so I, I com- uh, you know, I commend you and, and feel great joy that you're putting this message out there and encouraging people to go in this direction. And I want to ask you now what we call the final five. These are your final five questions, and we do them in a fast five rapid fire so-

Rhonda Byrne 54:41 Wow. Okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 54:42 ... each, each answer, each answer has to be one word to one sentence maximum. Uh, so, so Rhonda, these are your final five, and the first question is what is your biggest lesson from the last 12 months?

Rhonda Byrne 54:57 Discovering awareness.

Jay Shetty 54:59 Beautiful. Uh, what are you hoping to manifest in 2021?

Rhonda Byrne 55:04 Freedom and joy for as many people as possible.

Jay Shetty 55:07 What do you know to be absolutely true about human nature that many would disagree with?

Rhonda Byrne 55:14 That that is ultimately not our true nature. Human nature is not ultimately our true nature.

Jay Shetty 55:20 Uh, question number four. If you could create one law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Rhonda Byrne 55:26 Oh, wow. [laughs] Oh. Happiness is mandatory. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:36 Yeah, that's beautiful.

Rhonda Byrne 55:37 Right, that I, I would have the law of happiness 'cause then everything would be totally fine. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:42 I love it. And question number five, final question. Beautiful, very quick, concise answers. Very, very clear and amazing. Uh, fifth and final question. What is one truth that you try to live by every day?

Rhonda Byrne 55:55 As I try and live by, uh, as who I really am, so the infinite being that we all are and awareness that I am. That is the one ... That is the most important thing in my life.

Jay Shetty 56:07 Everyone, that's Rhonda Byrne, The Greatest Secret. Uh, if you wanna dive deeper into your personal eternal journey, then this book is a, a phenomenal guide to doing just that. Uh, it's a lot heavier than it looks too. It's like a, it's a, it's a heavy book.

Rhonda Byrne 56:24 I know, right? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 56:25 It's a heavy, chunky book. I-

Rhonda Byrne 56:27 What, what happened there? I ... When did I first

Jay Shetty 56:29 It's, it's, it's the truth

Rhonda Byrne 56:30 ... got that I-

Jay Shetty 56:30 The truth, the truth is heavy, so it's a heavy book.

Rhonda Byrne 56:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 56:33 It's, uh, it's, uh, you know, it's a beautiful book. I, I highly recommend it, uh, to everyone who's listening and watching today. Rhonda, it's been a joy spending this time with you. I really look forward to meeting you in person and getting to do this again in person one day, and I, I'm really excited for all your readers, the millions of people that will read this book and, and take that next step in their journey towards discovering who they truly are beyond the body and mind. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.