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Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

EXCLUSIVE: Liam Payne’s Girlfriend Kate Cassidy REVEALS Their FINAL Conversation

Jay sits down with Kate Cassidy, partner to Liam Payne — internationally beloved artist and former One Direction member — who tragically passed away in October.

Kate CassidyguestJay Shettyhost
Apr 16, 20251h 9mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 1:32

    Intro

    1. KC

      [dramatic music] It's just so hard to process that. [crying] He thought we had all this time, and it was just taken away.

    2. JS

      Breaking news, former One Direction singer Liam Payne-

    3. KC

      Has been found dead at a hotel in Buenos Aires in Argentina.

    4. JS

      I wanted to ask you why you felt that you wanted to come here to speak about this, and why right now? I wanna talk about how you found out on the day that we sadly lost Liam.

    5. KC

      The day I left Argentina was the last day I was able to touch Liam, to hug Liam. In that moment, I still didn't believe it to be true. I was supposed to be trying on my wedding dress. I wasn't supposed to be wearing a black dress.

    6. JS

      What was the last conversation you'd had with Liam?

    7. KC

      One thing that really helps me day to day is reading letters that Liam has left me.

    8. JS

      And I believe you brought one of those letters that you thought could share.

    9. KC

      Yeah. [dramatic music]

    10. JS

      The number one health and wellness podcast.

    11. KC

      Jay Shetty.

    12. SP

      Jay Shetty.

    13. KC

      The one, the only Jay Shetty.

    14. JS

      [laughs] Kate, welcome to On Purpose. I wanna start by just checking with you and asking you how you're doing today.

    15. KC

      Thanks for having me. I think that's the hardest question to answer. There's really no right answer to that. I think the best thing I can say to that is I'm doing okay. I have my harder days,

  2. 1:32 – 3:59

    How is Kate Really Doing?

    1. KC

      and I have my better days. I think each day, it doesn't get so much better, but each day I'm just trying my best. And I think even just trying my best makes me feel that little bit better. This has just been such a rollercoaster of emotions, and I'm really just really trying my best. I don't-- Like I said, that's the hardest question to really put into words to answer. Um-

    2. JS

      No, and I wanted, I wanted to start off by, and I was sharing this with you when you first arrived, but I wanted to share my prayers, my condolences to yourself, to Liam, his family, friends, the fans all across the world. Like, just my prayers for him and, and for everyone who loves him.

    3. KC

      Yeah.

    4. JS

      Because it's such a loss that you feel. I remember the day it happened, and me and my whole team, there was... It was, it was something that impacted everyone. And I wanted to ask you why you felt that you wanted to come here to speak about this, and why right now, and why this was appropriate timing for you to want to share some of this story?

    5. KC

      It's been just, like I said, a rollercoaster, and you give this such a sense of comfort. And I do want to be able to use my voice and be able to share my story, as this has impacted me so much and changed my life forever. And you give this sense of comfort and sincerity that I genuinely feel like I would be just, you know, and I am so comfortable speaking and sharing my story with you. And if there's any opportunity and chance for me to help other people that are dealing with grief, mental health, anything like that, I really wanna be able to be able to help. And even though right now I'm not, I'm not an expert, I don't think anybody can really be an expert at that, but I'm going through this day by day, and I'm teaching and learning, you know, teaching myself how to better myself. And I think if there's... If I could give anybody advice and help other people, then I would love to be able to be able to do that.

    6. JS

      Well, I wanna acknowledge how brave that is and how commendable that is. And again, I'm grateful that you're here and giving us the opportunity to hopefully help so many people as well, and hopefully do it from a place of peace for yourself. So the last few months for you have been drastically different and changed your life, as you mentioned just now. But before we dive into that, I wanted to focus on who Kate was before Liam, before this-

    7. KC

      Mm-hmm

    8. JS

      ... so that we can understand you a bit more and your journey. So talk to me about Kate.

    9. KC

      So

  3. 3:59 – 7:19

    Kate Reveals Her Childhood Crush on Liam

    1. KC

      grew up in New Jersey. Um, I actually am half British. My mom's from England, so I do have a ton of family in England.

    2. JS

      Where in England?

    3. KC

      Um, she grew up in a town called Edmonton. Um, I'm not too familiar.

    4. JS

      That is so close to where I grew up.

    5. KC

      Really?

    6. JS

      Yeah, if, if we're talking about the same Edmonton, yeah.

    7. KC

      Yeah, I do have some family in England, um, on my mom's side. Grew up in New Jersey. After I graduated high school, I kind of immediately moved out of the house pretty much. I went to a college in South Carolina called, um, Coastal Carolina University, graduated there after four years, moved to Charleston, South Carolina. I think after college I wasn't too sure what I wanted to do with work or with even my life. I think it was still kind of that, you know, I went to college, I had such a great experience. I met so many great people. I'm so glad I have a degree, and I didn't know, though, what I wanted to do. Some people obviously go to college for, you know, law school, medical school. They kind of know what path they're taking. I kind of went to college just saying, "Okay, I know at some point I'm gonna... it's gonna click. Like, I know what I wanna do." But I still didn't really understand what I wanted to do in life, so moved to Charleston with a bunch of my friends. My friends were all kind of in the same boat too. We were all just kinda like, "All right, let's just take one day at a time." We all graduated college. We're all kind of almost in a way, like, lost. We s- we don't know what to do. College is over. Now what? Now it's, like, the real life, the real big girl life. And moved to Charleston all together and took some time there just to focus on myself, and I ended up a couple months later getting this waitressing job at this restaurant lounge bar place. And that's where on my second week of working, I met Liam, and that day is, you know, has changed my life forever. And it was, you know, I'm such a believer in everything happens for a reason, and it's, I've talked about this previously in the past. But it's very, it's just so weird how sometimes the dots all connect because I tried so hard to get off work already my second week. I told my friend, 'cause my friend was the one who owned the restaurant, and I told her, "I honestly want to..." I wanted to balance my social life with work life, so I just said to her, "I want to work every other weekend." 'Cause it was only a weekend shift, so it was Thursday to Sunday. So I told her I wanna work every other weekend, and then week two came about, and she put my name on the schedule And I remember calling her and I was like, "Wait, I thought I wasn't working back-to-back weekends." And she was like, "We really need you." Like, it's just our second week of opening. It was brand new. I tried so hard to get off, and I was like, "You know what? Okay, fine." So I went in and I met Liam that same night, and it's just crazy 'cause if I did get off that night, I never would've met him. So yeah, met him that night. I was his server, and it all started from there.

    8. JS

      Thank you for sharing that. I wanted people to have context of, you know, where, where you've come from as well.

    9. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JS

      And I can't believe me and your mom have Edmonton in common. That's-

    11. KC

      Yeah

    12. JS

      ... that's still blowing my mind. Uh, I read somewhere that you said that you had a crush on Liam ever since you were 10 years old.

    13. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JS

      And that you even felt that you would definitely meet at some point. Like, there was that-

    15. KC

      Yeah

    16. JS

      ... sense you had.

    17. KC

      I think a woman always has a strong intuition, and I think for me, I, I was a One Direction fan, and specifically Liam. I remember even a couple years ago, like a fan dug up this old Facebook post and it was of me from like 2010, and it was, I think it said, "Like for Zayn, comment for Liam." And I commented on my own post, "Liam!" With an exclamation point. And I really just feel like even the way that me and Liam met, I just think that the fact that it was my second week of

  4. 7:19 – 9:40

    The Moment They Met

    1. KC

      work, Liam is in town in this kind of random city, like just randomly, and that, you know, I tried to get off work and I happened to be his server, and then we just clicked immediately. And just the fact that even I have all this background and I'm familiar with England, with London, and just, we just hit it off the bat immediately. And I really do believe that people are meant to meet in this life, and I do believe that we were, we were like soul connections. We had that connection. 'Cause instantly, as soon as we started talking, we had this connection where it was just so easy. I mean, I'm not going to lie, of course I was nervous. I was a fan. So I, of course, was so nervous to meet him. I remember walking up to his table, my heart was pounding and I was kind of just like, "What am I doing?" Like, "This is terrifying." Like, "Hi, I'm Kate. Nice to meet you." It was ter- terrifying. But he was just such a humble, kind person. You would, you would never even know that he was this huge worldwide pop star. You would never know. And he just had this sort of spark to him, and he was just so kind, just so humble. So different than anybody I've ever met. And just immediately, it was just like, just a spark that we were just, it, conversation just flowed so easily and it's just... But I didn't think, of course, that, "Oh, conversation's going great. I'm gonna have a future with this man." I didn't think anything of that. I just thought, "This guy's really great. I, this is so cool to meet him." I had his posters on my wall when I was 10 years old. I, you know, drew photos of him when I was 10 years old. So I didn't know it was gonna go anywhere, and then obviously it did.

    2. JS

      Kate, thank you so much for sharing that. And I wanna hear a bit about how did that evolve into this beautiful relationship? I've seen videos of both of you dancing together-

    3. KC

      Mm-hmm

    4. JS

      ... and attending events together, and whatever else it may be. Like, talk to me about those early months of dating, and how were you managing to spend time together with his busy schedule, where you were living? How did that all work?

    5. KC

      He did end up extending his flight a couple days in Charleston. I think he was supposed to leave the n- the following day, and he ended up ex- extending it for three nights. So he was there for a couple days. We spent day and night together immediately. Like, immediately just clicked so well. We would go to the beach, go to dinners, lunches. We went bowling. We would do all these Charleston tours. We just had this click and it was just so normal, you know? And it was nice. I felt like I was his tour guide. He's never been to Charleston before. I was able to show him around. He's been all over the world to all these different

  5. 9:40 – 11:50

    The Beginning of Their Fairytale Romance

    1. KC

      places, and it was like I was able to show him the one place he hasn't been to. So it kinda gave me that upper hand. I was like, "Oh, I feel kinda, this is cool, that I'm able to show him these, this new place." And he loved it. He loved Charleston. I ended up going, flying out to England, to London, um, about like a week later. And once again, just inseparable. I mean, hit it off where it's like we were, obviously I was staying with him, but we just, the minute we'd wake up, we would just plan all these things throughout the day to do all these things, and it just felt right is how I would describe it. Um, it was just something that, it was so fun and I, I could tell, like, I brought out this light in him where he was just so, like, he was just happy, and I think that I s- I saw that in him, and we both brought out this light in each other. I was happy. He showed me this type of fairytale life, and I showed him a sense of normality, which I think is, you know, balance is a key in a lot of relationships, and I think that it was just so cool to experience so many things I never would have thought I would experience or places I never thought I'd be able to go to in the world, that he took me after being with him for two months, not even. And it's just, it was crazy. It was insane, and I was so grateful and blessed to be able to, you know, experience that with somebody that I loved and love.

    2. JS

      How did it feel like going from, "I have a crush on this person," to, "Oh, my gosh, he's my boyfriend"? Like, what was that realization like?

    3. KC

      At first, it was so surreal. I would wake up every day and just, I would even say it to him. I'm, I'm not really a shy person, so I would say to him, "I, I can't even believe me and you are together right now." Like, I was a fan. I was a fan. I would always say these things to him. It's not like I would run into my closet and like, like scream out of excitement. I, I was honest with, I just was always, you know, saying to him, "I can't even believe it." But I think that it got to a point where it just became so normal, and it just felt so normal. Like, you just put all that past you and, you know, it's still, of course, I would always say to him, "You are the coolest person I've ever met in my life, and it's just such an honor to be a part of your life." It's, he was the best person I've ever met, and I think that one day it just kind of, okay, this is reality. It doesn't, you know, fame doesn't change somebody or

  6. 11:50 – 12:56

    What It Takes to Build Real, Lasting Love

    1. KC

      s- you know, in his, it didn't change him. So it just felt so normal and just felt so right.

    2. JS

      Yeah. That's so beautiful to hear. And what was it like with the media attention on your relationship in those early days? How did you experience that?

    3. KC

      It was something I've never experienced before in my life, of course, and it was definitely- ... difficult, I'd say, in the beginning. I think also with boy bands and, you know, guy- like, male pop stars, I think they have this fan base that, of course, so many girls are so protective over, and I understand that. I mean, this was, One Direction was a part of so many, you know, people's l- childhoods, and I, m- me being one of those. So I totally understand that. But I think when we first kind of were spotted out in public, and I think it might have been maybe our first Instagram post together or something, I was just getting flooded with hate, just like you're like, you know, just, just being the new girlfriend, kind of like, "This isn't gonna last. Who even are you? Where do you come from?" Like,

  7. 12:56 – 15:31

    Staying Grounded Amidst Fame & Public Scrutiny

    1. KC

      just ev- nitpicking everything about me, just my appearance down to everything, just, you know, people would dig up all these old photos of me from, like, 2020, you know, and just be like, "She looks so different than she looks now," comparing photos. And it was just, it was just hard to see that. And Liam, you know, Liam would say to me, like, "I'm, I'm so s-" Like, he would feel at fault. He'd be like, "I feel so bad that you're, that you have to put up with this and deal with this, like this, you know, like, if this isn't for you." And I was like, "I don't care what people think at all because I love you. So if people think that our relationship is fake or staged, or if they think I wear too much makeup or, like, look 10 times older, like, or just have, have these little nitpicking opinions about me, like, at the end of the day, nobody knows our relationship like me and Liam." So I never let it get to me. He never let it get to him. And he, he showed me that. It's not, don't let people's opinions get to you. It doesn't matter. It's always gonna be behind a computer screen, and it shouldn't let it affect your day or your life. And I completely agree with that, and I try, you know, I try to have the thickest, strongest skin. But I will say sometimes, like, one negative comment will weigh out 10 positive comments. No matter how strong you are, you see that one really negative comment, but then you see 10 really kind, beautiful comments on top of that. The only one you're gonna think about all of that day is the one negative one. You're not gonna think about, like, the kind ones.

    2. JS

      No, it's so true, and it's even harder when it's almost like a life that you came into-

    3. KC

      Mm-hmm

    4. JS

      ... because it wasn't the life that you had.

    5. KC

      Yeah.

    6. JS

      It's extremely thick-skinned for you to be able to say, "I love you, so I don't care about it." But like you said, sometimes things got through. How did you navigate that together? How did you navigate that personally? Because like you said, there's always that one comment that kind of squeezes through that thick skin that we have-

    7. KC

      Mm-hmm

    8. JS

      ... that does affect us, and we all go through it. I know I go through it. How did you navigate that? How did you navigate that together?

    9. KC

      That was definitely all Liam for me. He almost, like, guided me into this way. He, he just built me up. He made me feel like this amazing-

    10. JS

      Wow

    11. KC

      ... human, and this, he grew up in the limelight of fame since the young age of 14, 15 years old. So he's had over, at the time, you know, almost 15 years of experience of this, and he just completely always said, "You're going to get hate no matter what. You're gonna get negativity. It doesn't matter what you do." He just always said, and I would see it because people wouldn't always be so nice to him, and I would see him just brushing it off. And he really, you know, sometimes I could see that one comment that would get to him, but barely. He would just brush it off and just, "Who cares?" And he really

  8. 15:31 – 18:54

    What Liam Taught Kate About Blocking Out Negativity

    1. KC

      taught me that it's not important, this one comment, and he really did train me in a way to realize that life is more than that and not to let one negative comment affect your entire day or your life-

    2. JS

      That's amazing

    3. KC

      ... and to focus on the good things, focus on the positivity from it, not the negativity.

    4. JS

      That's, that's incredible to hear, I mean, about his character and just how comforting and loving he was and supportive he was. Was, as you just mentioned there, that he sometimes received it too, you know, obviously from my outside perspective, it's like you look at someone like him who's so beloved, so, uh, appreciated, admired. What was he experiencing? What was he, what was he going through?

    5. KC

      I think a lot of the negativity, and it always comes with fame, like I said before, but he, he would just, almost it got to a point where a lot of the things that he would do, he was getting this negativity brought towards him, and it was just so uncalled for, and it's just so mean and ridiculing and cyberbullying. And he could be out somewhere wearing something and people would say, "He's trying too hard." Or he could post something and people would say, "Oh," like, you know, "He thinks he's all that." Just such mean things that, and like I said before, he was the most humble person, you know? And I, that's how I would say to him, too, like, "These people are just behind a computer screen. Don't let this affect you." And he didn't need to hear that from me. I mean, he's been dealing with this 15 years. But yeah, he just, for pretty much anything that he did, he was living under this microscope. People would love it. People would hate it. He would wear something specific and people would say, "Oh my God, he's dressed great." But then people would be like, "What the hell is he wearing? He looks so whatever." And anything he did pretty much, he'd get that mixture of love and hate, and I think that's with a lot of people that are living in the limelight. I think no matter what they do will get that mixture of love and hate, no matter what. Doesn't matter who you are or what you do, they will always get that. But I think he did such a good job of being able to just push that negativity aside and just focus on the good and the positivity. I mean, he was so talented, and he, he knew that, and he knew that, and he should know that, and just not let those comments, those hurtful comments ruin his day because there's no point. The videos of seeing, of seeing him happy and with a smile and just good memories and good moments made me more sad because I realized, like, he's never going to smile again. And I think ever since October 16th, I live in a fear of I don't know what tomorrow will bring, ever. But I think for me, one thing that really has helped me so much and that makes me feel so full of light and love is seeing signs, and I see so many signs of Liam.

    6. JS

      He seems like a humble, wonderful, kind, giving human being, and at the same time, was he already struggling with addiction and mental health challenges when you both met, or was that something that- You saw develop

    7. KC

      He's been pretty open about his mental health, and I think it's something he struggled with for definitely a good amount of time, um, even before we were together. Um, it was no secret. And I think that, you know, with mental health and addiction, it really is, you just never really know what way it's gonna go. And it's just a flip that can switch. I think that for him, yeah, he experienced struggles with mental health for years

  9. 18:54 – 22:19

    Liam’s Quiet Struggles With Mental Health

    1. KC

      before, um, dating me as well. And I think that he did struggle with addiction. Um, and I think again, he was pretty open about that. And like I said, with mental health, it's kind of the same thing where it's like you... Addiction is something where obviously you don't want to have that addiction, and it's something, you know, if he could have chose to just be sober the rest of his life, he would've been. It's just something that I, at first, I think didn't fully understand. I don't have addiction that runs in my family. Um, I didn't really understand it at first. So to be completely honest, I think in the beginning of our relationship when he was struggling a little bit, I think that I remember just kind of being like, in my head like, "Well, can't you just not do that?" But it's not that easy. It's not easy at all. And they don't want, an addict doesn't want to do that. He doesn't wanna pick up a drink. He doesn't wanna take a certain substance. Like, they don't want to do that, but they, it's almost like their brain is wired to pick up that beer, to do that thing. And that's when I started to realize, like, this is a, this addiction is a serious thing.

    2. JS

      Yeah. I, I think that makes so much sense. I feel for all of us, if you haven't seen someone with an addiction close up, you actually don't realize how deeply conditioned and wired it is for that person. And it's so easy from afar to say, "Oh, well, why can't you just stop?" Or, "Why can't you just quit?" Or, "Why can't, why can't you just not do that?" And that's a natural feeling people have, but as you move closer to someone who has an addiction, you recognize it's actually them acting against their own will.

    3. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JS

      It can be really something that just pulls them towards it, even when they really don't want it. And, you know, whenever I've met or seen people with addiction, I've, I've seen that to be the case. And I really appreciate you being so honest about it because I think when you're new to it, when you don't have an experience of it, that is how we process it. How did you start to notice it? When was it that you started to notice that this wasn't something that just goes away or that he can stop? And how did you adapt and change and show up for him in those times?

    5. KC

      I think it was, I finally realized, you know, that this is something he did not choose, you know, something that he does not wanna choose. Um, when he would, like I said prior, it's, we would have the best day. We would have such a great day, and then later on that night it was just something would just tick in his brain where he couldn't help himself, and I think that's a huge factor with addiction. In our relationship, balance was definitely a huge key. I really tried to do what I could to help him and better him and distract his mind. For me, I'm really not a homebody at all, and Liam was a homebody. And that's okay, but for me, I didn't wanna be at home from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to sleep. And one thing I remember closer to the beginning of our relationship was that I remember Liam would always order us, um, coffee s- from Starbucks, um, on Uber Eats every morning. And I eventually said to him, I was like, this is before I got my, you know, I was able to drive and learn how to drive

  10. 22:19 – 30:05

    The Reality of Loving Someone Battling Addiction

    1. KC

      on the other side of the road in England, as you know. And I remember saying to him, I was like, "You know, you have a car. Why don't we just go out and grab a coffee? Like, why do we have to order one every single morning from Starbucks?" And he just would always say, "I just, I don't really wanna get out of bed. I, I don't wanna get out of bed yet. I just wanna have like a lazy morning, and then we'll go do something later on." And for me, th- I prefer to actually wake up early, go grab a cup of coffee, go on a Starbucks drive-through, sit on the drive-through. I know it's something so small, but it makes my day feel 10 times more productive, just getting out of bed rather than sitting in your bed and waiting for a coffee to show up right at your doorstep. So for me, I think balance was a huge key factor in helping Liam with his mental health. You know, I tried to make sure that we weren't busy 24/7 because he wouldn't have liked that. That's like him trying to keep me at home 24/7. I wouldn't have liked that. So I think a balance was great. You know, some nights we would go out to a nice dinner and then go watch a movie after and then play mini golf or something or go bowling and then come home. But then other nights we would cook dinner at home, watch a movie at home in bed, and then play Wii Bowling, you know? Like, we didn't have to be out all the time, but I think balance is so good, especially when you do struggle with mental health, to help get that person kind of out of their shell and out of the house. And that's something that I really tried to... And some days, you know, he wouldn't really want to leave the house, and I would just kind of say to him, "Come on," like, "we're getting out of the house. I have, I found this cool museum. We're gonna go here." And just at the end of the day, everything that we did, we never regretted because I knew in a way we succeeded the day. I got him through his mental health that day. I got him out of that head space. And I remember, um, in Greece a couple months ago before, um, Liam passed away, we were in Greece and he was posting on his Snapchat, and he was having one of those days where he woke up and he wasn't in the best head space. And I said to him, "All right. Get dressed. We're going to the beach. It's, we're in Greece. It's 80 degree, 90 degree weather. Why are we in the hotel room? We're going to the beach." He didn't want to go to the beach. He said to me, "I don't want to. I want to stay in the hotel room." And I remember saying to him, "No, we're going to the beach." It's a five-minute walk, and then if you wanna come back to the hotel room, we'll come back to the hotel room after. Let's just get out for even 30 minutes. Let's go." So we go to the beach, and he's posting these Snapchat stories. And in a way he's kind of joking. He's posting these videos and pictures. He's kind of joking saying, like, "You know, my girlfriend dragged me to the beach. I don't wanna be here." But part of him was being serious. And I remember when he put that out, I was... I actually the next day received a lot of hate from that because the fan base don't know what goes on behind closed doors. So they took it as in I- I- I forced Liam out of the house. I forced him to do things he doesn't wanna do. Like, he didn't wanna go to the beach, but his girlfriend's dragging him to the beach. But I just did it to help better his head space that day. And at the end of the day, we had a great time at the beach. We, we did. And we ended up getting lunch after. We made a whole day out of it instead of just sitting in the hotel room all day. And once again, I knew that day we succeeded. It was at times a lot for me and, um, I am not a professional. I never was. And I, you know, am so young, and I was so young at the time, and I really just tried to do everything that I could. And I just... I think one thing that people need to realize is that you cannot fix somebody and you cannot cure somebody. They could really only do it themselves. Um, I think that's one thing back to what I was saying earlier that I just kind of was like, "Why can... You know, why does he have to do this? Like, can't he just stop?" Or, "Oh, I'm gonna run in and be the big hero. He's gonna s- you know, he's gonna... I'm gonna save the day." But at the end of the day, you cannot cure somebody, but you can, you can help them. You can support them through their better days, their worst days always. But you can't cure somebody. And I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't realize in addiction, that you... and mental health, you can't cure somebody.

    2. JS

      Yeah, absolutely. And it, and it's a lot to try even beyond this situation. I think it's so, it's so hard, and I'm empathizing with so many people who are probably listening and watching to this right now who are trying to support a partner through something like this or a friend or a family member. And it can be really hard on you because you take on this responsibility. You take on this role. And every day it changes, right? It's not linear. I think a lot of people think, "Oh, it gets better every day." But you could get better for three days and then feel like you move back-

    3. KC

      Yeah

    4. JS

      ... four steps.

    5. KC

      Mm-hmm. Exactly.

    6. JS

      And it's shifting-

    7. KC

      You couldn't have worded it better, yeah. Exactly.

    8. JS

      Yeah, it's shifting every single day. And it's very challenging for both people because the person who's suffering doesn't wanna put that on the other person.

    9. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JS

      And the person who's trying to help wants to let go of that suffering. And so it's heavy for both people. It's also not just a one-way thing.

    11. KC

      Yeah, it's not.

    12. JS

      It's, it's both sides. I've, I've, I've seen people through addiction and having mental health disorders that are just feeling so bad for their caretaker or their partner or friend who's trying to help them through it.

    13. KC

      Yeah. Yeah, and I think something like that too, you have to, in order to help and care for somebody else, you have to not forget to care about yourself. And that's one thing I think I at times was kind of forgetting to do. Or, you know, a lot of people could probably relate to that if they're in a similar situation. And you have to be able to care and better yourself as well. You can't just let yourself forget about yourself. You need to make sure that you care about yourself as well, and that other person of course, both.

    14. JS

      Yeah. Did you overall feel like things were getting better? Did you feel that he was moving in the right direction? Like, what was your thoughts about how that progress was happening for him?

    15. KC

      It was more so positive than it was negative. I think he made, you know, like you said before, a lot of, you know, he would take five steps forwards and then three steps backwards. It would be kind of one of those things. Um, he was a very strong, strong person, so he had a strong mindset where he could really... He could better himself at times, but it's just that flip that, that switch that just flips, where you wake up one morning and it's almost like he doesn't have a choice, but he feels a certain type of way.

    16. JS

      So Kate, I wanna talk about how you found out on the day that we sadly lost Liam, and what happened that day? Where were you, and how did you find out?

    17. KC

      I was in Florida, and it was about three days after I got back from Argentina. Um, I was in the house alone with our dog, Nala, and I remember just being on the couch. I feel like that whole day was kind of a blur for me. Um, well, not the day, but that moment in time. I was on the couch, and I got a phone call from one of Liam's friends. And he called me and said, "Is Liam okay? I heard he fell from a balcony." And I said, "What? That must be a rumor." I was like, "That's not true at all. Like, there's no way. This, this isn't true." And when his friend first called me too, he didn't mention anything about death. So the first thing that went to my mind was either it was a rumor, just something for clickbait, or he fell off a balcony and he broke a rib. Like, he's okay. Um, so I'm making all these phone calls, and nobody's answering the calls. And eventually I call the friend back. At this point, I'm, like, starting to freak out. But I s- didn't think the worst, so I'm not even f- like panicking too, too much. And I'm starting to get a little bit panicky. I call his friend back and I say, um, "Have

  11. 30:05 – 36:09

    How Kate Received the News That Would Change Her Life Forever

    1. KC

      you heard any updates? I'm really confused. Like, what's going on?" And he was like, "The only update I've heard is that Liam's, Liam's, um, Liam's dead." And, um, in that moment, I, um, in that moment I still didn't believe it to be true. There was just no way. But there was just that one little part of me in the back of my head that was like, "Why would somebody make this up?" You know? I'm just starting to panic at this point. At, at this point, I'm thinking of, "Okay, this, this must be true." And I'm pacing around the house. I couldn't even sit still. Like, I was genuinely... There was, like, sweat dripping down me, and I've never experienced that before, and I was just... I just, I couldn't stop fidgeting with my hands. I couldn't be on my phone. At this point, my phone was getting blown up. So this news, whether it be the ru- this rumor that wasn't true, 'cause I didn't have confirmation yet, or this true news that I was just, I just found out two minutes ago, my phone was completely getting blown up by my friends, my family, people that I haven't spoken to in years I was getting missed calls from. And I'm just staring at my phone, and I'm like, not even looking at my messages, but just, I knew exactly what these calls were for. I'm, I, I'm pacing around the house, freaking out. Um, and eventually, his friend called me back, and he said that, "Liam's not here anymore, and he's not... He's, he's dead, and he fell to his death." And I, I still, I still didn't really believe it. I, I just, I kept saying, "No, no, no. He's... Are, are you sure? He's, he's probably just... He broke, he broke a bone. He broke a rib. He broke something. Like, he's not dead. He's not dead. There's d- there's no way he's dead. There's no way." And his friend said, "He's dead." He was like, "I can't really talk for... I can't talk. I, I, I just need to let you know the news. I'll call you back later." And at this point, I just lost it. I, I just... Even talking about it, it brings all these emotions back where it's just still doesn't even feel true talking about it. Sometimes I can talk about it without crying, and then other times I can't really even speak because it's just so... The way that I found out, it's just, it's something that I never would have thought would have happened. And I'm sitting in my house. I'm all alone with my dog. I didn't wanna be on my phone because, like I said, it was getting blown up. And, um, our housekeeper pulled in the driveway, and our housekeeper left earlier that day, and she, um, she, you know, I... We got along really well, and I guess as soon as she pulled in the driveway, I looked out, out, you know, I looked out the front door. I saw a car pull in the driveway. She put in the garage code, ran in the house, and just literally fell on the ground and just hugged me and just said, "I am so sorry. I just got home. First thing I did, I put on the news, and it was the first thing after getting back from your house." And it was just me and her, and she was so comforting and brought me water, brought me tissues, and eventually, this is when all of my, my friends came over, um, to support me. Obviously, my mom and dad are in New Jersey, so my mom got on a flight the next day. Three of my best friends from, uh, childhood all got on a flight the next day, all flew down to be with me. It was hard, and it just, it just still, it was just something I never thought I would ever get that phone call.

    2. JS

      Yeah. People talk about phone calls you never wanna receive in life, and that's definitely one of them. I can't imagine the, the shock, the lack of power, control, ability to change anything in that moment, the lack of feeling helpless and con- confirmation, not confirmation. I mean, there's so many emotions that are running there. I, again, so sorry to even hear about it that way, and, you know, the courage that you have to share it right now, I'm sure it's not easy at all. What was the last conversation you'd had with Liam? Is that something that you were thinking about then? Did you remember that?

    3. KC

      I think when I think about the last day and the last words that we said to each other, I... It brings me this mixture of pain and peace, and it brings me pain because I can't fully still process that that day was, the day I left Argentina, was the last day I was able to touch Liam, to hug Liam, to speak to him, to be in the same room as him. But it brings me peace because it was such a beautiful last moment we had together. On our last day, we woke up. We had an amazing breakfast. We were in the countryside. We went horseback riding, and I had a later on evening flight. And, um, me and Liam had this almost, I don't even know what other word to describe it, but we had this clinginess to us where even how we met, we kind of just met, instant spark, and our relationship moved very quickly. And some people might say it's too quick. You know, people are gonna say what they wanna say. But I would never change anything about it. And if I even went away for one night to go spend the night at my girlfriend's house or even go to dinner with my girlfriends, the way me and Liam would say goodbye to each other wasn't just like, "Oh, I'll see you later." Majority of the time it was this heartfelt long goodbye for at least five minutes of just hugging. "I'm gonna miss you. I love you." And on the last day in Argentina, my car was in the driveway, and we went back into the guest house, grabbed my suitcase, and we were sitting on the couch, and I just kept going on and on and on about how much I love him and how much he means to me and how much I'm gonna miss him and that I can't wait for him to already be back

  12. 36:09 – 39:43

    Kate Shares Her Final Heartfelt Goodbye With Liam

    1. KC

      in Florida because we were starting this new chapter of our life. We just bought a new house. We just got a dog. We just moved to America as well. I mean, I was living in England with him for two years. We just moved to, you know, my country. It was just all these new beginnings, and it was in just such a positive light. So I remember sitting there with him, and I was going on and on and on and saying to Liam how much I love him, and he laughed, and he interrupted me, and he just said, "Kate- Like, "You're gonna miss your flight. Your car's in the driveway. You're acting like this is the last time you're ever gonna see me again."

    2. JS

      Wow.

    3. KC

      I just laughed back. I was just like, "I know. I'm being silly. I, I need to get in the car. I can't miss my flight." Just to even look back at, in time and just know that really was the last, the last time I was able to see him again is just so chilling. But in a way, I think that the way that we said goodbye to each other, I'm so blessed, and this is where I get that peace from it, that it was that heartfelt, beautiful, I didn't know of it, but obviously our last goodbye, I, I wouldn't have wanted it to be any differently. If it was just, if I just said, "All right, I'll see you in a couple days," like, "Love you," I'm so glad that we had that last beautiful moment together and shared that.

    4. JS

      I can see how much you're holding back and how hard this is for you. Just, you know, I think when people lose people and you know a family member's sick, there's a, it's never easy, ever.

    5. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JS

      But there's a preparation. There's, there's time to process. With a tragic moment like this, which you're not expecting at all, and then to have the shock of it, did you wanna fly to Argentina? Like, what was even going through your mind?

    7. KC

      I think my first thought definitely was, yes, to get on a flight to Argentina. But then after all of my friends and f- my mom came to Florida, I just realized there would be no point, and it's just better to not be in a for- like, foreign country. I don't know anybody in Argentina. I don't have family or friends there. So just to be in a home where I feel comfortable being, and being surrounded by such a great support system is just gonna be so much better for my mental health. I knew, of course, if I had to be there, I would've been there, but there was almost no point in me going there. I think, obviously, being in Florida for those couple of days after finding out the news, and then being in England was definitely where I needed to be, was being in England.

    8. JS

      I think a lot of us, when we lose someone, when we lose someone, a lot of us focus on the moment we find out, but we don't often ask people how they felt the morning after. Because it's almost like when you wake up and the news is still true and you realize it's real, it almost feels heavier. What was that next day and that next morning like?

    9. KC

      It was a mixture of this numbness where I didn't sleep at all that night. The first night I couldn't sleep at all. I remember just because of also the time difference, and obviously England, I was just on the phone back and forth with a lot of family and friends in England. My friends, um, who were with me stayed up all night with me. I don't think any of us could sleep. I mean, Liam was even, you know, he made such an effort with my friends, and they looked at Liam as a friend as well. So we all lost. They lost a friend. I lost the love of my life. I remember one thing my friends immediately,

  13. 39:43 – 44:05

    The Emotional Support That Got Her Through The First Days

    1. KC

      they said to me after, obviously, the news, the first night they basically took my phone and deleted social media. They were like, "Don't redownload this. You don't wanna see anything." Because there were a lot of, um, images and things that were coming out on the web that they were protecting me that I shouldn't have seen. So I didn't have social media for a couple days. Honestly, maybe three days, which is no time at all, and I'm ashamed to even say that I redownloaded TikTok, I think, after three days. It was everywhere in the media. It was, you know, I would just scroll on TikTok and it was my entire video after video, Liam, and just, I think the videos of seeing, of seeing him happy and with a smile and just good memories and good moments made me more sad because I realized, like, he's never going to smile again and he's never... It's just an end to creating any future memories. It was harder for me to see those videos. But yeah, the morning after was just numb. I think with grief it comes in so many different emotions. I've never lost anybody extremely close to me. I've never been to a funeral before. And the fact that I'm 25 years old, and the first funeral that I have to attend is my partner's funeral just still doesn't sit right with me, and it's just mind-boggling to even think that. I remember when I was trying on my funeral dress, um, I remember just trying it on, looking in the mirror, and I just remember thinking in my head, I just started bawling 'cause I was like, "I was supposed to be trying on my wedding dress. I wasn't supposed to be wearing a black dress. I was supposed to be wearing a white dress, and Liam's supposed to be here with me," you know? So it was really hard to accept this reality of knowing he's not here anymore.

    2. JS

      I mean, when I'm hearing that, I feel like losing someone is hard enough, and then losing someone when they're in the public eye and they have fans all over the world, and then when your, every post you see is about that person and what's happened, it's, it's a different thing to deal with. And where everyone knows who, thinks they know or knows who that person was, it's, it's a very different thing to go through. And I find that you're not only grieving the loss of someone you loved, um, but you're also grieving the life that you were gonna build together, it sounds like, when you talk about getting married. Was that something that you both had spoken about and talked about?

    3. KC

      I mean, for me, I think that most couples, of course, why would you be with somebody if you don't expect to have a future with them? It's something we definitely spoke about and something that we knew when the time was right that we wanted to develop and build this life together. And I think we were really on our way of doing that by moving to America, getting this new house. I was starting to think of buying some new decorations and all the, all these things and h- you know, having a dog, and we were just kind of on our way there. And to have that ripped from you is just in one day. I mean, you really never know what tomorrow will bring. And I think ever since October 16th, I live in a fear of I don't know what tomorrow will bring, ever. But everything just got completely ripped away from me in that one day.

    4. JS

      I know it hasn't been very long, but what has helped you with the grieving process over the last few months? And as you're in that process and journey still, what's been useful to you? What was helpful to you and, and what was unhelpful as well? Because I think so many people listening or watching, whether they've lost someone close to them or... I think people struggle to know what to say. People struggle to know what to do themselves when they've lost someone. What, what worked for you?

    5. KC

      I think at the end of the day, you need to listen and trust your heart, because grief comes in so many waves, so many different emotions. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel numb. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel sad. You're gonna feel angry. You're going to feel... One day you're gonna wake up and you're gonna laugh, and you're gonna just think of good moments you had, and then you're gonna find yourself just this laugh turning into this hysterical cry. And I think that grief is something that you never know what to expect, and it hits everybody so differently. So I think the best, you know, some advice that I

  14. 44:05 – 45:11

    No One Prepares You for This Kind of Loss

    1. KC

      would give, just some general advice, would be to always trust your gut. Some things for me might not work for other people. I think keeping a consistent, of course, schedule routine, and I'm not saying waking up in the morning from 9:00 AM, having a strategic plan throughout the day, and then not getting home until 8:00 PM. Of course not. Your mind needs time to rest and think and heal. But even just if you take one activity per day, it could just be walking, baking, going to the gym, going to a Pilates class, just any type of small thing, it just helps so much with your head space. But I think for me, one thing that really has helped me so much and that makes me feel so full of light and love is seeing signs. And I see so many signs of Liam, and I'm such a believer in signs. I believe in manifesting, and I know that he's with me, and I feel him all the time. And I remember at first when he passed away,

  15. 45:11 – 54:44

    How Kate Learned to Breathe Again Through the Grief

    1. KC

      I didn't feel him for, I'd say the first five days. And I know that's not a long amount of time, but obviously, five days when you're not with somebody after being with them twenty-four/seven, it feels like, you know, five years. So I remember getting kind of angry and just being like, talking to Liam, just saying, "Why haven't you shown me any signs?" And I remember one day, it was before I flew out to England, so I was still in our house in Florida. I sat on his, the floor of his closet, and I started crying hysterically, and I was so angry with him. I said, "Show me a sign. This is so unfair. Like, are you here with me? Show me a sign." And this is a stage of grief that also I want people to know it's okay to be angry, and it's okay to cry, and it's okay to say things. It's okay. And I was crying and I was just saying, "I'm so disappointed. I love you so much, but I need you to show me a sign, 'cause I don't feel you." And I remember I went back downstairs, and it's just, it was such a simple thing, but my friends asked me, "Do you want anything from McDonald's?" And at this point, it was so hard for me to even hold down food. I was barely eating. And for me, me and Liam, we loved McDonald's. It was something that we would probably get, like, twice a week, which I know is not the healthiest option. It was just a part of, like, just kind of our childlike things to do, and we would always get the Happy Meal toy. We always g- would get the Happy Meal toy. It was always also Liam's idea to do that. He was such a kid at heart, and he would always get the Happy Meals toy. And I said to my friends, "You know what? Get me a kid's meal. I'm not even hungry. I really don't wanna eat, but I'll try to, I'll try to eat something, but I just wanna see what the Happy Meal toy is. I really just, I wanna see what it is." So they came back. They brought me the, the Happy Meal, and it came in this, like, because it was around Halloween, it came in this trick-or-treat bin instead of the cardboard McDonald's, like, Happy Meal box. And I remember when they gave it to me, I was, I was annoyed because I was like, "This is the Happy Meal toy? I thought I was gonna get, like, a little cute thing that maybe would've been a symbol of Liam or something that Liam would've liked or something, like, cute that could just make me feel a little lifted up." I was just... My head was everywhere. Just even thinking that I could get any sort of positivity and light from a Happy Meal kid's meal toy, that was just where my head space was. And I was so angry. I didn't get any type of toy. I just got a trick-or-treat bin that obviously I'm not going trick-or-treating. So then I opened the, I opened the lid to try to eat some of the food, and I noticed there was this maze on the back of the lid, and it was kind of one of those mazes where it's like, "Count how many black cats, count how many ghosts, count how many pumpkins you can find." And I obviously, I didn't try to even do the maze. Why would I? And on the back of it, it said the answers in small little letters, so you can, I guess, match it up to see if you won the puzzle. And our angel numbers have always been four, any sequence of four. And the answers on the back of it were four, four, four. And that was immediately the first sign I got from Liam. And the number four symbolizes guidance and support from your angels, and this has been such a big part of our relationship. I mean, he had the number four initialed on his finger. I ended up getting it after he passed away, and I think that four was such a big part of our... Every single letter he's written me, he has ended it with, "Your 444." It's just, it was always our thing. So the fact that I got these, this Happy Meal toy, and the answer said, "444," that was Liam listening to me, and he was giving me a sign saying, "I know. I am here. I am here. You're not alone." Like, "I am here." And it made me feel so Just my, I just lit up, I remember. And I still, I still kept the little map. I have it folded up and it's in my bedside drawer

    2. JS

      And it sounds like you've seen so many other signs after that as well.

    3. KC

      Yeah, I have, and I see so many signs. And I came to LA, obviously, to be here. I came to LA, and I've never been to LA with- without Liam before. I've only been with Liam. We've went a handful of times together, and we've created so many memories here. And when I landed in LA, I felt like part of me was missing. I, just even getting on the plane, just sitting alone, you know, not next to Liam, just felt so wrong, and I just still, you know, everything that I do, I'm- I'm missing Liam. I'm thinking of Liam. But being in this city that I love, and I have this connection with LA, I love it so much, without the person that I love, who brought me here and showed me around LA and introduced me to this wonderful city, it just felt so empty. And I think on my second or third night here, me and my friend went to a basketball game. And we were on our way to the basketball game, we were in an Uber, and everywhere we were just seeing fours everywhere. On license plates, we were seeing it on billboards, phone numbers, like, on billbo- everywhere, just the number four. And then we get into the basketball game. We go into a suite. And every suite's, like, I'm assuming decorated differently. That's normally how it is. It has, like, a different type of interior design, especially at this arena. And we walk in, and the wallpaper is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam's bathroom wallpaper in England, and it's so unique. I've never seen a wallpaper like this before. It's lion heads with this floral design. It's something that's not just a color or not this sort of design that you would see shopping for, you know, a painting at TJ Maxx. It's just this design that I've never seen before moving into this house in London with Liam. And the fact that that was in the suite, I immediately, that's the first thing. I walked into the suite, and I just stopped. I- I turned to my friend and I said, "This is the same wallpaper that me and Liam had in our bathroom in London." And then we leave the basketball game. At this point, it's kind of late, and we just want to get some food in us, so we go to this quick little restaurant for a bite to eat. We were the only ones in the restaurant 'cause I think their kitchen was about to close within five minutes. We walk into the restaurant, and the song that's playing as we're walking in is Night Changes by One Direction. And the first place my eyes go to is the TV screen behind, um, the booths, and it was Liam on the screen. They were playing the music video. And it was just three sign, three big signs in a row being here in LA, and I just knew Liam was with me that night, and Liam was there at that basketball game with us. Liam was there that night eating tacos with us. He was there with us. And seeing those signs make me feel so much more connected and close to him and that I know he's here, and he's listening to me, and he's, he's far, but he's not too far.

    4. JS

      Yeah, I had the pleasure of interviewing Laura Lynn Jackson, who wrote the book Signs.

    5. KC

      Yeah.

    6. JS

      And I love that book. For anyone who loves learning about signs, loves knowing about signs, that, that book is speaking so closely to. I don't know if you've ever seen it or ever met Laura Lynn, but she speaks so beautifully about how all of us have different, whether it's numbers, whether it's emblems, symbols, things that we can see anywhere that points to us that we're moving in the right direction. And, uh, yeah, me and my team have had some pretty crazy experiences when we were preparing for that interview and met her and everything else as well. And so thank you for sharing those because it's amazing to see how Liam's so alive in your life and-

    7. KC

      Mm-hmm

    8. JS

      ... so, so present in your life. And I can imagine that's hard, too. I'm curious to know what's been the hardest part of the last few months for you. Because as much as it's wonderful to see Liam being present in all these places, I'm sure it's hard as well.

    9. KC

      I think the hardest thing that this has, of course, brought me is this loneliness feeling, and it, you go from being with somebody 24/7 to knowing and facing the reality that you're never gonna see this person again in this life. And that, for me, is something that I still just cannot fully process in my mind, and I think that is always in the back of my mind. I think going places to... Everything reminds me of Liam. I could be having a specific coffee flavor from Starbucks, and I'm just thinking, "Oh, Liam loved this coffee." I bring, you know, I bring up Liam in almost every conversation I have because everything reminds me of him, and at the end of the day, I'm thinking about him every second of every single day. I could be having a full convers- full-blown conversation with somebody about something completely off-topic, something just completely not r- involving me, involving Liam, and always in the back of my head I'm just thinking, "Liam, Liam, Liam." And then even some of the things that I don't connect with with Liam, things that we haven't done, mo- memories that we haven't made yet or moments that we haven't shared together remind me of him because I, I'll think to myself, "Oh, Liam would have loved this," or, "I wish Liam was able to experience this," or, "I wish we were able to try this together." So everything reminds me of him in one way or another.

    10. JS

      You know, I think we often think of grief as a, almost as if we're waiting to wake up one day and we don't feel what we felt anymore, and that's, and for anyone who's tried to grieve knows that's not true, and it doesn't happen like that. And it's almost like this very day-to-day thing. Day-to-day we can feel different things, feel different emotions. One day we can be an absolute wreck. One day we can speak with love about the person that we've lost. What's been helping you day to day?

    11. KC

      One thing that really helps me day to day is reading letters that Liam's left me. And I think in today's generation it's not as common to leave letters. And

  16. 54:44 – 56:39

    Rebuilding Life After Loss One Day At a Time

    1. KC

      I'm not talking just about birthday letters, a birthday card, or a Christmas card, just letters that are heartfelt and that in the moment you want to surprise and leave your loved one this letter. And throughout me and Liam's relationship, he has wr- written me... I mean, he was, he was a songwriter. He was w- he was so good with his words. He was almost like a poet in a way, and one of his love languages was to put his thoughts and words on paper, and he would leave me these notes all around the house. And I have every single note that he's left me, ever since the very beginning to the very end, and we could be at a diner and he'll write me a small little, "I love you" on a napkin, and I'll fold it up and put it in my purse. I keep everything that he's given me. And honestly, if it weren't for these notes and letters that he's written me, I don't even know where my head space would really be at. Because I think when you're reading a letter in somebody else's handwriting, you genuinely, when you're reading it to yourself in your mind, you hear this person, you hear his voice, and it's just this connection that means so much more than something on text or a compliment in person, and that's so important too, of course. But it's something about just a letter just speaks so much volume. It just means so much.

    2. JS

      And I believe you brought one of those letters with you to, that you thought could share.

    3. KC

      Yeah.

    4. JS

      When was this letter written?

    5. KC

      This letter was, um, more towards the beginning of our relationship. Another part of his love language was to, you know, give gifts, and sentimental gifts that would last a lifetime, something that maybe even I could pass down to my future children. And any single gift he's given me has al- always comes with a card and/or a letter. And this letter here, um, says, "The reason I picked this watch out for you is because it doesn't have any numbers on it, and my love for you is endless.

  17. 56:39 – 1:02:59

    Kate Reads a Love Letter From Liam

    1. KC

      It literally means eternity. So now every time you look down at your wrist, you can know and remember that my love for you is timeless. We have all the time in the world to learn our love language for each other, and I hope and pray that I get this right for you. With every tick and every tock this watch makes from this second onwards, I love you with all my heart, Caitlin, and I won't lose you. Your 444." Sorry. It's just sometimes reading it out loud just, it's just so hard to process that. It's like we thought we had all this time, and he thought we had all this time, and it was just taken away. And it's the, this is the watch, and it's so, it's so special to me, and I just... You know, this is something that I will always-- Everything he's given me, but this watch I will always cherish. And especially ever since he's passed away, I, I read this note so often, and I look down and I, I th-- just like he w- he, you know, he wants me to look down at my wrist and remember him and, you know, it's not in the way that we thought, but this, this watch is so special and it's... Even the way he gave me this watch, it was-- I remember he came home one day and he said, "I got you a gift." And I said, "You didn't have to. What? Okay, like, that's so kind. What is it?" And Liam would always bring me gifts, and they weren't always these luxurious items. Sometimes he'd bring me McDonald's Happy Meal toy that he got earlier that day after work, or he would bring me a coffee or just a card or a note or flowers. It was always something different. And he said, "You're gonna have to go find it. It's in the backyard." And I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "I just thought we'd make fun out of it. I want you to remember this gift, so I hid it in the backyard. We're gonna have a scavenger hunt." And I'm just in the backyard running around everywhere, and he's kind of just saying, "Warmer, colder." And finally I look behind this chair bench thing we had in our backyard, and I see this box and this card on top of it. And every gift he's given me has a story to it, and I think that's something that's so important, too, and so important with me, too. I have not only these cards that I can read, but these gifts, small or big, doesn't matter, that I-- they each have a story and a memory to it. They're not, they weren't just given to me like, "Oh, I picked this up today. I thought of you, thought you'd like it. Okay, I'm gonna go shower now." The, every single thing he's given me has such a story behind it, and I'll cherish this watch for the rest of my life and everything he's given me.

    2. JS

      Thank you for sharing that with us and letting us into, you know, the beautiful love that you both shared, and also knowing how powerful it is for the people we love and the people that love us to have these memories that we can hold onto so deeply, especially, as you said so wonderfully, in the form of letters. I think it's such a beautiful message for you to share with everyone that what's helping you day to day is these cards, these letters, these moments in time that you've kind of kept as this capsule that you can turn to and experience that love, even if it is challenging. But to reconnect with it and feel closer again to Liam as well. So thank you so much for, for sharing that with us. As, as I've been listening to you today, I think you're really brave and courageous to, to share the journey that you both went on. The journey that you've been on can be very hard with anyone who's beloved by so many people all over the world. Like I said, you know, everyone in my life, when we found out the news, there were messages being shared and d- people who didn't know him, so I can't imagine, you know, yourself, his family, everyone else who's actually gone through this loss and had to process it publicly as well. What's something that you think this outpouring from the fans, I mean, the response from the online world was so beautiful to see, and it's always... This is something that I find so difficult, that when people are alive- They rarely get to see how much everyone loves them.

    3. KC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JS

      And we deal with this back and forth of criticism, challenge, whatever else it may be, and then when we lose someone, we all realize how we actually felt about that person and how they made us feel. And we remember the first time we saw that person on screen, or the first time we met them, if we got that, or the first time you went to a concert for someone like Liam, or you, you start seeing all of these stories and memories pour out. And so when you look at that outpouring, what would you have loved for Liam to have experienced?

    5. KC

      I think I just would have loved for Liam to know how loved he really was, and I think he knew that to an extent, but with any type of criticism he was receiving, he didn't have that validation of knowing how much of an impact and how much the world loved him and, you know, loves him, you know, still every single day for the rest of his life. I mean, Liam is going to be spoken about forever. He was... He made such a mark on people's lives and impacted so many, and I really do wish he was here to see the love and support he's received from everybody worldwide because it's, it's really nothing but beautiful, and the memorials that people have put together, the tributes, and it's just, he deserved it. And as time goes by, he's going to get this recognition and this love and support, and I couldn't be more proud of him. And I do wish he was here to be able to see the tremendous legacy that he's left behind, and it's something he deserves. And I think this is just another message to be kind to people, especially online, and it's one thing people weren't always so kind to Liam, and especially, like I said before, with so many other celebrities, so many people aren't kind online.

  18. 1:02:59 – 1:06:52

    The Power of Collective Grief: How Liam’s Fans Helped Kate Feel Less Alone

    1. KC

      But then when something tragic like this happens, everyone turns, and everyone just sits there and talks about the good. And he deserves only to be spoken in such a highly positive matter. This should be just a message to just be kind, and, you know, we're never gonna live in a world where people are always gonna be kind. There's always gonna be that 1 out of 10 comments or 3 out of 10 comments that are going to be hateful, always, and it's something we can't control. But I think the fact that we can't control that, then why are we letting it get to us so much? We can't control what people's opinions are, what people think. We can't control it, so there's no point in trying to, you know, in letting that ruin your day.

    2. JS

      How do you think he would have reacted if he did have a chance to feel and experience the outpouring of love?

    3. KC

      If he saw all of this, I think he would feel just so grateful and just, he would just know. That would just be his confirmation of how important he was in this life, and I mean, to me, he was the most important person in my life. To so many he was. But he just maybe didn't fully feel that confirmation. I'm not sure. But if he saw this, he would have that confirmation of, "Wow, I really left this legacy. I impacted so many people's lives," and that's what he would want, and that's... He would just be, he would be proud of himself. But he would be, right now, if he was able to see everything, he'd be so proud.

    4. JS

      Yeah, absolutely. Hearing about him from you has made me appreciate him even more, respect him even more, and feel so much, you know, love for him through you and, and through all the beautiful memories and things that I read about when we found out the news. Just to see him being honored and appreciated in that way is really beautiful to see. Whenever we lose someone that's important to us, I feel like we find a new part of ourselves because we lose an old part of ourselves, and there's part that al- of course, always stays. But for you, what perspectives have changed? What's shifted for you through this journey that you've been on for him? What, what's kind of, what's a lesson that's kind of risen to the surface?

    5. KC

      I think, just like you said, I think that when you do lose somebody so close to you, you do lose a part of yourself, and I do feel like I lost half of me. L- and if Liam were here, he would want me to be strong. He would want me to be brave and do things that make me happy and do things to honor his legacy and honor his name and to help other people. And I think for me, one of the things I just keep thinking about is what else can I lose in life now when I already lost the best thing in my life? Like, what more is there to lose? Like, how could it get worse? So in my mind, it's like, take the risk, do things, be brave, be strong, don't lay in bed all day, get out of bed, live your life, and I have to live my life for Liam. Because I'm 25, he would never want me to be in bed all day depressed, and I have those days. Don't get me wrong, I'm sad all the time, but I'm happy sometimes because I just think about all the memories we have, and there was like, there's never gonna be a love in my life that... Liam was one of a kind. The love that we experienced is gonna be one of a kind. I'm never gonna experience that type of love again. In the future, whatever is meant for me, it's gonna be so different than what I experienced with Liam, and that's something that, you know, I'm so... I wouldn't change any part of it, and I, I don't regret anything, and it's something that, it's like out of a movie, and I, I love him so much, and I will continue to for the rest of my life. I just think that for me, just doing things that make me happy and that I know would make him happy, I'm just trying to do those things and be strong and just realize that life's short and take the risks, take the opportunities, take, do what makes you happy 'cause you don't have much to lose.

    6. JS

      Okay. I want to thank you for taking the risk, being so courageous. I'm hoping

  19. 1:06:52 – 1:10:25

    Losing Someone Feels Like Losing a Part of Yourself

    1. JS

      that everyone who's been listening today has felt through you a, a deeper sense of love for Liam and the beautiful words you shared about him, which I really do believe honor him. And I really hope for anyone who's listening who's lost someone near and dear to them, someone who's close to them- feels a sense of peace and healing through you sharing your journey of grief and loss and everything that you're still going through. And I think you've left us with some really beautiful reminders that I know I'm gonna hold on to, of whether that's leaving the people we love letters, whether it's making sure that we do what's right for us when we're going through loss, because no one really knows what else we're going through. And ultimately, what you're really sharing with all of us, that it's the oldest lesson in the world, but it's the one we need again and again and more and more in this world today, is that we have no idea what someone's going through. You have no idea what's going on in someone's mind, and it doesn't take anything, and it doesn't cost anything to be kind and to be loving and to be supportive. And I'm, I'm walking away from this conversation feeling inspired and touched and, and closer to Liam in a way that I feel grateful that I didn't have the opportunity to before.

    2. KC

      Mm.

    3. JS

      So thank you so much, genuinely.

    4. KC

      Thank you for having me, and I think opening up and talking about it really, really helps me with my grief. This conversation has really just done a lot for me. I feel, before walking into this room, I... It's sometimes hard for me to talk about it, but I think leaving this room, I'm gonna feel, just addressing the good memories about Liam and just thinking about those, putting them out there for, to share with you, to share with your viewers, I think it's just so important, and it's made me feel so much better. So thank you for having me.

    5. JS

      I'm glad. No, thank you. That means the world to me, and it's, it's another lesson in that, that when someone's ready to talk about it and when they feel comfortable, it can actually help with their healing. So thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Maté on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

    6. SP

      Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a, a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable

Episode duration: 1:09:15

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