Jay Shetty PodcastIf You Are Experiencing GRIEF Today, This Episode is For You (ft. Kate Cassidy & Taylor Hill)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
50 min read · 9,669 words- 0:00 – 1:13
Intro
- JSJay Shetty
How many of you find that the holidays bring up a mix of emotions? For many people, the holiday season can be a time of connection and celebration, but it can also quietly amplify grief, memories, and the absence of someone we deeply love. When celebration is everywhere and absence seems louder, loss can feel more present. Grief is something every single one of us will face, yet most of us are never taught how to live it, especially during moments when closeness, tradition, and joy are emphasized. Research shows that nearly one in three adults struggle with prolonged grief after the loss of a loved one, and during the holidays, that weight can feel even heavier. What's often misunderstood is that grief isn't about getting over someone. It's about learning how to carry that love forward in a new way. In this video, you'll hear stories of loss and resilience from guests I'm truly grateful to have spoken with on On Purpose. Their experiences remind us that grief can feel isolating, but hearing how others live it can help us feel understood and less alone during this season. The number one health and wellness podcast.
- NANicole Avant
Jay Shetty.
- JSJay Shetty
Jay Shetty.
- KJKaran Johar
The one, the only Jay Shetty.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- 1:13 – 7:27
Finding Healing After Loss
- JSJay Shetty
When Kate Cassidy lost her boyfriend, Liam Payne, in a tragic accident, her entire world changed overnight. She shares that in the beginning, everything felt numb, like she was floating outside of herself. And what surprised her was that the healing didn't come from big moments, but from the small everyday rituals, listening to songs they loved, talking about him with friends, even noticing little signs that reminded her of Liam. Psychologists say that grief often comes in waves, sometimes gentle, sometimes overwhelming. But over time, each wave teaches us how to carry the weight a little differently. Let's have a listen. I think so many people listening or watching, whether they've lost someone close to them or... I think people struggle to know what to say. People struggle to know what to do themselves when they've lost someone. What, what worked for you?
- KCKate Cassidy
I think at the end of the day, you need to listen and trust your heart because grief comes in so many waves, so many different emotions. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel numb. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel sad. You're gonna feel angry. You're going to feel... One day you're gonna wake up and you're gonna laugh, and you're gonna just think of good moments you had, and then you're gonna find yourself just this laugh turning into this hysterical cry. And I think that grief is something that you never know what to expect, and it hits everybody so differently. So I think the best, you know, some advice that I would give, just some general advice, would be to always trust your gut. Some things for me might not work for other people. I think keeping a consistent, of course, schedule routine, and I'm not saying waking up in the morning from 9:00 AM, having a strategic plan throughout the day, and then not getting home until 8:00 PM. Of course not. Your mind needs time to rest and think and heal. But even just if you take one activity per day, it could just be walking, baking, going to the gym, going to a Pilaties class, just any type of small thing, it just helps so much with your head space. But I think for me, one thing that really has helped me so much and that makes me feel so full of light and love is seeing signs. And I see so many signs of Liam, and I'm such a believer in signs. I believe in manifesting, and I know that he's with me, and I feel him all the time. And I remember at first when he passed away, I didn't feel him for, I'd say the first five days. And I know that's not a long amount of time, but obviously five days when you're not with somebody after being with them twenty-four/seven, it feels like, you know, five years. So I remember getting kind of angry and just being like, talking to Liam, just saying, "Why haven't you shown me any signs?" And I remember one day, it was before I flew out to England, so I was still in our house in Florida. I sat on his, the floor of his closet, and I started crying hysterically, and I was so angry with him. I said, "Show me a sign. This is so unfair. Like, are you here with me? Show me a sign." And this is a stage of grief that also I want people to know it's okay to be angry and it's okay to cry and it's okay to say things. It's okay. And I was crying and I was just saying, "I'm so disappointed. I love you so much, but I need you to show me a sign because I don't feel you." And I remember I went back downstairs and it's just, it was such a simple thing, but my friends asked me, "Do you want anything from McDonald's?" And at this point, it was so hard for me to even hold down food. I was barely eating. And for me, me and Liam, we loved McDonald's. It was something that we would probably get like twice a week, which I know is not the healthiest option. It was just a part of like, just kind of our childlike things to do, and we would always get the Happy Meal toy. We always g- would get the Happy Meal toy. It was always also Liam's idea to do that. He was such a kid at heart, and he would always get the Happy Meals toy. And I said to my friends, "You know what? Get me a kids meal. I'm not even hungry. I really don't want to eat, but I'll try to, I'll try to eat something, but I just want to see what the Happy Meal toy is. I really just, I want to see what it is." So they came back, they brought me the, the Happy Meal, and it came in this like, because it was around Halloween, it came in this trick or treat bin instead of the cardboard McDonald's like Happy Meal box. And I remember when they gave it to me, I was, I was annoyed because I was like, "This is the Happy Meal toy? I thought I was gonna get like a little cute thing that maybe would've been a symbol of Liam or something that Liam would've liked or something like cute that could just make me feel a little lifted." I was just... My head was everywhere. Just even thinking that I could get any sort of positivity and light from a Happy Meal kids meal toy, that was just where my head space was. And I was so angry.I didn't get any type of toy. I just got a trick-or-treat bin that obviously I'm not going trick-or-treating. So then I open the, I open the lid to try to eat some of the food, and I notice there's this maze on the back of the lid, and it was kind of one of those mazes where it's like, count how many black cats, count how many ghosts, count how many pumpkins you can find. And I obviously, I didn't try to even do the maze. Why would I? And on the back of it, it said the answers in small little letters, so you can, I guess, match it up to see if you won the puzzle. And our angel numbers have always been four. Any sequence of four. And the answers on the back of it were four four four. And that was immediately the first sign I got from Liam, and the number four symbolizes guidance and support from your angels, and this has been such a big part of our relationship. I mean, he had the number four initialed on his finger. I ended up getting it after he passed away, and I think that four was such a big part of our... Every single letter he's written me, he has ended it with your four four four. It's just, it was always our thing. So the fact that I got these, this Happy Meal toy, and the answer said four four four, that was Liam listening to me, and he was giving me a sign saying, "I know. I am here. I am here. You're not alone. Like, I am here." And it made me feel so just my... I just lit up, I remember, and I still, I still kept the little map. I have it folded up, and it's in my bedside drawer.
- 7:27 – 10:20
Learning to Listen to the Signs
- JSJay Shetty
And it sounds like you've seen so many other signs after that as well.
- KCKate Cassidy
Yeah, I have, and I see so many signs, and I came to LA, obviously, to be here. I came to LA, and I've never been to LA with- without Liam before. I've only been with Liam. We've went a handful of times together, and we've created so many memories here, and when I landed in LA, I felt like part of me was missing. I just, even getting on the plane, just sitting alone, you know, not next to Liam, just felt so wrong, and I just feel, you know, everything that I do, I'm, I'm missing Liam. I'm thinking of Liam. But being in this city that I love, and I have this connection with LA, I love it so much, without the person that I love, who brought me here and showed me around LA and introduced me to this wonderful city, it just felt so empty. And I think on my second or third night here, me and my friend went to a basketball game, and we were on our way to the basketball game. We were in an Uber, and everywhere we were just seeing fours everywhere. On license plates, we were seeing it on billboards, phone numbers, like on billbo- everywhere, just the number four. And then we get into the basketball game. We go into a suite, and every suite's, like, I'm assuming decorated differently. That's normally how it is. It has, like, a different type of interior design, especially at this arena. And we walk in, and the wallpaper is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam's bathroom wallpaper in England. And it's so unique. I've never seen a wallpaper like this before. It's lion heads with this floral design. It's something that's not just a color or not this sort of design that you would see shopping for, you know, a painting at TJ Maxx. It's just this design that I've never seen before moving into this house in London with Liam. And the fact that that was in the suite, I immediately... That's the first thing. I walked into the suite, and I just stopped. I, I turned to my friend and I said, "This is the same wallpaper that me and Liam had in our bathroom in London." And then we leave the basketball game. At this point, it's kind of late, and we just want to get some food in us, so we go to this quick little restaurant for a bite to eat. We were the only ones in the restaurant 'cause I think their kitchen was about to close within five minutes. We walk into the restaurant, and the song that's playing as we're walking in is Night Changes by One Direction, and the first place my eyes go to is the TV screen behind, um, the booths, and it was Liam on the screen. They were playing the music video, and it was just three sign, three big signs in a row being here in LA, and I just knew Liam was with me that night, and Liam was there at that basketball game with us. Liam was there that night eating tacos with us. He was there with us, and seeing those signs make me feel so much more connected and close to him and that I know he's here, and he's listening to me, and he's, he's far, but he's not too far.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, I had the pleasure of
- 10:20 – 13:07
Keeping Memories Alive
- JSJay Shetty
interviewing Laura Lynn Jackson, who wrote the book Signs.
- KCKate Cassidy
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I love that book. For anyone who loves learning about signs, loves knowing about signs, that, that book is speaking so closely to. I don't know if you've ever seen it or ever met Laura Lynn, but she speaks so beautifully about how all of us have different, whether it's numbers, whether it's emblems, symbols, things that we can see anywhere that points to us that we're moving in the right direction, and, uh, yeah, me and my team have had some pretty crazy experiences when we were preparing for that interview and met her and everything else as well. And so thank you for sharing those because it's amazing to see how Liam's so alive in your life and-
- KCKate Cassidy
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... so, so present in your life, and I can imagine that's hard too. I'm curious to know what's been the hardest part of the last few months for you because as much as it's wonderful to see Liam being present in all these places, I'm sure it's hard as well.
- KCKate Cassidy
I think the hardest thing that this has, of course, brought me is this loneliness feeling, and it... you go from being with somebody twenty-four/seven to knowing and facing the reality that you're never gonna see this person again in this life, and that, for me, is something that I still just cannot fully process in my mind, and I think that is always in the back of my mind. I think going places to... Everything reminds me of Liam. I could be having a specific coffee flavor from Starbucks, and I'm just thinking, "Oh, Liam loved this coffee." I bring, you know, I bring up Liam in almost every conversation I have because everything reminds me of him, and at the end of the day, I'm thinking about him every second of every single day. I could be having a full convers- full-blown conversation with somebody about something completelyOff topic, something just completely not r- involving me, involving Liam, and always in the back of my head I'm just thinking, "Liam, Liam, Liam." And then even some of the things that I don't connect with with Liam, things that we haven't done, mo- memories that we haven't made yet or moments that we haven't shared together remind me of him because I, I'll think to myself, "Oh, Liam would have loved this," or, "I wish Liam was able to experience this," or, "I wish we were able to try this together." So everything reminds me of him in one way or another.
- JSJay Shetty
You know, I think we often think of grief as a, almost as if we're waiting to wake up one day and we don't feel what we felt anymore, and that's... And for anyone who's tried to grieve knows that's not true, and it doesn't happen like that. Kate's story teaches us a key lesson that grief isn't linear. There isn't a straight line from heartbreak to healing. Instead, it's a process of learning to coexist with absence and realizing that the love you shared doesn't vanish with loss. It changes form, and it stays with you.
- 13:07 – 19:08
Moving Through Tragic Loss
- JSJay Shetty
Our next guest, Nicole Avant, discusses the tragic loss of her mother after she was fatally shot in her own home. Nicole was faced with a choice. She could let anger and bitterness consume her, or she could lean into faith, forgiveness, and gratitude for the life her mother lived. Research shows that people who approach grief with forgiveness and gratitude often report greater emotional resilience and improved mental health over time. But forgiveness doesn't mean excusing what happened or ignoring it. For Nicole, it was about choosing not to let pain define her life. I'm reading from your book-
- NANicole Avant
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... if you don't mind.
- NANicole Avant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
If that's okay. So this is page 53, for those who are reading along with us in Think You'll Be Happy, and you say, "A, a few days after my mother died, Pharrell Williams called. He's like a brother to me. He's family. And he says, 'We're gonna celebrate your mom,' he said. 'We're gonna celebrate her legacy. She's a big deal, and we're not gonna let anyone forget her. She created a life worth talking about. Do you realize that hundreds of thousands of babies were born around the world the day she passed over? There are 140 million a year all around the world.' "
- NANicole Avant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
" 'Life is always continuing, Nicole, and you must continue her life by living yours to the fullest.' And he concluded, 'God is still the greatest.' " And you said that Pharrell says this all the time, through good or bad times, and he's right, God is still the greatest. What I find really unique about your journey, Nicole, as well, is that you are able to keep and strengthen your faith-
- NANicole Avant
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... in your own spirituality, in the way you practice it, at a time when it's very natural, and I would never judge anyone if it would actually veer them away.
- NANicole Avant
Oh, right, and just say, "No."
- JSJay Shetty
No, exactly.
- NANicole Avant
Like, "No."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, when you go-
- NANicole Avant
"What do you mean?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, "What do you mean?" Like-
- NANicole Avant
Yeah. "What are you talking about?"
- JSJay Shetty
... it's over.
- NANicole Avant
I- I've been so good and I've had so much faith, and how can this happen?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- NANicole Avant
You know? And as I say in the book, it's like, why not us? It, tragedies and trials and everything, it happens to, you know, uh, as it says in scripture, you know, it rains on the just and it rains on the unjust. It's everyone kind of gets hammered. But it goes to the power of choice for me, and the reason that I grew stronger in my faith as opposed to leaving it is because I b- really do believe that the universe has kind of laid it all out.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
Life has laid it out. Various scripture, you know, your Buddhist script, everything has laid it out which says, "Here it is. You're on this earth and kind of here, here's how you play this game. But these things, we're not gonna lie, these things will show up."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
But the power of free will, which my mom always reminded me about, uh, is that, you know, listen, we as human beings do have free will.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
We have, we have the freedom to choose how we're going to live, choose how we're gonna think, as opposed to any other animal.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
You know, they don't, they don't have the power of imagination and choice. We do.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
So to blame the Creator for the choices that people make is not something that I wanted to subscribe to.
- 19:08 – 20:18
Why Grief Is Proof of Deep Love
- JSJay Shetty
I love that. That just brought a massive smile to my face.
- NANicole Avant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
It's, it's so beautiful how, how someone's energy and spirit can be so big that it can, you know, truly live on and, and truly, truly be felt and shared. It's... Yeah, there's this beautiful line that you share, uh, from your friend Penny-
- NANicole Avant
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... who says, "Grief is the receipt from the universe showing that you loved someone or something and loved them very deeply."
- NANicole Avant
Isn't that the best? When she reminded me of that, I said, "Okay, wait, say it again."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- NANicole Avant
"I have to write this down. Say it again. That is so good."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- NANicole Avant
But she said, "Baby, that's what it is. It's a receipt," and it do- it could be a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, a dog, cat, whatever. Something that you love that is no longer there, that has changed form. Even if it's the most peaceful transition.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
The grief is proof that you loved.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
You know, the grief is... m- most of the time, and there's a lot of grief also where there's regrets and all that.
- JSJay Shetty
Of course.
- NANicole Avant
I understand that. I... And I respect all forms of grief, but it is... It's a receipt.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, a receipt that you loved and you were loved.
- NANicole Avant
And I was loved.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, deeply.
- NANicole Avant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Very deeply.
- 20:18 – 24:24
Celebrating a Life Well Lived
- JSJay Shetty
This one line in the book, you really... I just felt it was per- perspective shifting in a way that... Oh, I just, I just feel like that statement just, like, you know, you just embodied and captured everything. And you said that even though your mother's death was shocking, her life was beautiful. So imagine, even though the end was so terrible, her life was beautiful, and that's what you're celebrating. That's where you're putting emphasis and focus-
- NANicole Avant
Absolutely
- JSJay Shetty
... and your light on. And I find that's very difficult, because when we lose someone, it's so easy and natural again, and normal, and that's when it's normal for us to obsess over how we lost someone and how we left them, which is the shortest amount of time we actually experience them most- mostly.
- NANicole Avant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
But we have all of this time, but the brain and our memory and our mind is so good at just fixating on the end.
- NANicole Avant
The end, and, and not the life.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, was... Yeah, sure.
- NANicole Avant
And, yeah, and not the life, and I, I had to get to the and. So I used to say, "But, but, but," and then I realized, "Wait, I can have both." This is shocking and terrible-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- NANicole Avant
... and hurtful, and-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- NANicole Avant
... I'm gonna celebrate her life, and I'm gonna think of the good times, and I'm gonna try and think of all the great memories that'll bring a smile to my face. So it was no longer a but.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
And once I changed but to and-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- NANicole Avant
... I didn't have to choose which one. I was gonna do both-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- NANicole Avant
... and move through life with the shock and the trauma and the stress, and the beauty of her life, the beauty of how she lived, the energy of what she gave. So I was, I was moving with all energies, and it was only until I shifted, because I was definitely in the, "But this happened, so I don't know how I could ever smile again. But this happened, and it was so tragic." And then as soon as I said, "This happened, and it's tragic, and I'm gonna think positively. I'm gonna think constructively."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
You know, my dad always used to say to me, "Girl, keep your mind right."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- NANicole Avant
"Keep your mind right. Crucify your mind every day. You gotta keep your mind right." And so that really helped me, you know. And then my friend, uh, T.D. Jakes, had called me, and he said, "I understand you're angry. Of course, it's normal to be angry and all the things you're feeling. But I have a question for you. Do you want your focus to be on her last five minutes?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
"Or are you gonna focus on the 81 years-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- NANicole Avant
... that she lived?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- NANicole Avant
And it's your choice, and you have to choose every day. Which one are you gonna focus on? Are you gonna give him five minutes, the five minutes and it, the trauma, or are you gonna focus on the 81 years?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- NANicole Avant
And I remember through all my tears, I went, "The 81 years."
- 24:24 – 29:24
Understanding That Nothing Is Permanent
- JSJay Shetty
When our next guest, Karan Johar, learned that his father was diagnosed with cancer, he suddenly realized how much had been left unsaid between them. They began having conversations about life, death, and love, connections they had never dared to have before. So many people who lose a loved one report wishing for just one more conversation, one more beat to tell them something important before it's too late. And while we can't always control when goodbyes come, Karan's story is a reminder of the healing that comes from honesty and why we shouldn't wait to say what matters most.
- KJKaran Johar
Can your life stop? No, you have to move on. Nothing is worse than losing a loved one, but you eventually have to come to terms with the fact that it's happened. That's why there's a full stop, because the next sentence has to begin. So it's only can start when that full stop is registered, and then you move on. I look at life like that. Whatever goes wrong is going to go wrong. Nothing is gonna be constantly happy. Nothing is gonna be constantly sad. It's the way you have to kind of just understand life. And, and maybe because as a child I had such a rough patch, I think I kind of armored myself for me to, you know, feel the way I do today about anything.
- JSJay Shetty
Who have you lost that that full stop was hard to-
- KJKaran Johar
My father, he passed away much earlier than I ever imagined, when he was in his early 70s, and, uh, very healthy, on his feet, active man, no vices. He just one day had a fourth-stage tumor in his esophagus, which we found out much later when it was in its fourth stage, and that went into full-blown cancer, and he passed from the time of, uh, the diagnosis to the point of him passing away was ten months. I'm a realist. I'm not an optimist or a, or a pessimist. I'm a realist. So I went to the oncologist and, and we were surprisingly filming, uh, Kal Ho Naa Ho, which is about a man dying, and it is about a man dying. We were in New York, and I went to my oncologist and said, "Look, my father," you know, uh, and like, "Tell me, give me the hard fact." And he said, "Look, it doesn't look good." And I said, "Okay, now I know this, that I know it doesn't look good, and we'll do everything in our capacity medically to kind of," you know. But I said, "I don't want to see him in pain." And actually, oddly, the five days that he had a tough time were the five days of his chemotherapy. Those were the tough days, the, the subsequent days to the chemotherapy. But actually, those 10 day, uh, other months, besides those five days, gave me so much time that I could spend with him, that I had conversations I never thought I would. We discussed my childhood. We discussed his early years. We discussed his achievements, his failures, his regrets, his joys. I have complete closure with my relationship with my father because I have no unanswered questions. Because in those 10 months, I wasn't running around like a headless chicken trying to keep him alive. I had accepted that he may go, and in those months, I lived in the moment with him, and I was able to have all those conversations that I would have loved to have had with him earlier, but I didn't. But now those 10 months gave me that. And I even told my mom, I was like, "Talk to him, speak to him," but she was finding it very tough to accept the situation, so she couldn't, and that's why she still doesn't have closure. Twenty years have passed since he passed away, and she still has not been able to deal with his passing away, and she's 82 years old today. Whereas I actually have complete closure because I had every conversation I could have dreamt of having with a, with a parent, I did. And I- that's why I always tell people, like, communicate today, because there may not be a tomorrow. Tell them today anything. You have a problem, you have resentment issues, you have parental trauma, you've got to speak today, because today communication is the resolve, is the, is the aid is, you're looking for, is the solution to every problem, and we don't talk. Specifically, I think, um, in our parenting structure in India, we have respect, and respect sometimes equals distance.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. Yeah.
- KJKaran Johar
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely.
- KJKaran Johar
And that respect should not give you distance in a relationship. Respect should also be a close component of love. It should actually give you the ability to communicate to your parent. Just because you respect your father and mother doesn't mean you can't say what you want. Parents are not always correct.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KJKaran Johar
It's not that they are saying the right thing to you-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KJKaran Johar
... all the time. They are carrying the baggage of their parents, and they put that baggage onto you, and you may not need it or you shouldn't have it, and you have to kind of have an open line of channel. And you can still be respectful. Never not be respectful, 'cause that's something that our tradition teaches us, our culture teaches us. But please, I always tell people, keep an open channel of communication with your parent, because they may not always be correct. They may not always be right. They may not be right advice or value system may not be good for you, and you have to sometimes question it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, for sure. Was there a
- 29:24 – 33:20
The Conversations You Wish You’d Had
- JSJay Shetty
specific question you asked or a conversation you remember fondly from that time? As you said, you had every conversation, you asked every question. Is there one that stands out?
- KJKaran Johar
I asked him whether he has any regrets, you know, and he spoke to me widely about, like, his relationship with his parents and his siblings and, you know, what he thought he did wrong as even career-wise and how he thought he was taken for a ride, but he didn't act on it at the right time, and he lost a lot of money because some of his indiscretions and, you know. He spoke about that openly. He also spoke about the fact that, like, sometimes he has, he has things he wants to tell my mom, but he doesn't say it because he doesn't want to hurt or upset her, and he says, "I wish I had." Then he tells me, he told me like, "You know, I wish, uh, I would have spent more time with you. You would have been... I, I wish I had in-incorporated sport in your life. It would have given you a sense of much more, like, of... Because I believe sport is not just for physical health, it also gives you, it trains your mind very differently." And he said, "I, I didn't spend enough active time with you because I was so busy working."So he told me a lot about his regrets and his, um, thoughts at that time, and I think it really helped him as well. I think it kind of gave him so much closure.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KJKaran Johar
And I think those conversations are very dear to me. And then he wrote an 11-page letter to me, which I didn't know existed. It was given to me, uh, post him passing away-
- JSJay Shetty
No way
- KJKaran Johar
... um, where he wrote all the business or the accounts, and it was a technical letter of everything about, like, this is the account, these are the... these are my, like, the businesses that we've... Th- this... You don't owe money to anyone. It's all done. This is where the, uh, bank account, et cetera, detail, mutual deposits, funds, like, whatever the investments were at that time. He gave me, like... And handwritten, Jay. Handwritten. It was written by him in hand. And then he wrote people you can trust, people you can't trust, things you should never do. Like, he just g- It became my Bible. And I've literally, I think 90% of it is what I followed. And he wrote me an 11-page letter, and I still have it.
- JSJay Shetty
That's unbelievable.
- KJKaran Johar
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Had he, had he ever wr-written you a letter before?
- KJKaran Johar
Never. He knew he was going.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, of course.
- KJKaran Johar
So he wrote me that. And it wasn't an emotional letter. It was a practical, thoughtful, business-minded, future-based letter. It was all about me, how to manage the funds, what we have, what we don't have, who owes him money, and he said, "But never ask them till they come to you," uh, because, you know, it was all given in good faith. And he said, "We don't owe anyone anything, so if anyone comes and asks, it's not true." And he gave me every single detail that me, who was not business-minded, had zero business acumen, needed that 11-pager, uh, that I followed as my Bible to kind of, uh, uh, forge forward at that time.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow, what a beautiful gift-
- KJKaran Johar
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... to leave someone. That's so powerful.
- KJKaran Johar
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I've never heard that before.
- KJKaran Johar
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I've never heard someone leaving their child a practical, thoughtful... I mean, the idea of who to trust and who not to trust, that's pretty-
- KJKaran Johar
He never wrote anything that, "I love you. I will always..." None of that. That was said already.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KJKaran Johar
It was none of that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KJKaran Johar
It was not a Hallmark letter.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KJKaran Johar
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KJKaran Johar
It, it was a, it was a business letter.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. That's unbelievable. Thank you for sharing that. Karan's reflections remind us that grief isn't just about mourning what we lose. It's also about cherishing the moments we still have. The best time to say what you feel is always now. Don't wait until tomorrow to express what matters today. Grief isn't only about who we lose, but also what we lose: a pet, a pregnancy, a future. For Taylor Hill, it came in many forms: the heartbreak of miscarriage and the loss of her beloved dog, Tate. These kinds of losses are often minimized or dismissed. Even though between 10 and 20% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, many women report that their grief is not validated or supported by others. Taylor speaks candidly about how isolating these losses can feel, but also about the importance of allowing yourself to mourn them fully, no matter what anyone else says. Let's take a look.
- 33:20 – 41:09
Creating Space to Grieve Freely
- JSJay Shetty
I was saying to you that I've had multiple friends in the last two to three years who've all experienced a, uh, miscarriage, and I talk to them, and I'll hear from them, and I see so much just stress, overwhelm, pressure, um, self-degradation, like, you know, just, um, negative self-talk. Like, there's... It's, it's, it's one of the hardest things to go through, even if everyone goes through it, as you say. Well, not everyone, but so many people go through it. It doesn't make it any easier.
- THTaylor Hill
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And often, actually, like you said, it makes you so lonely that you don't wanna talk to anyone about it.
- THTaylor Hill
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's, it's not comforting to know other people have gone through it.
- THTaylor Hill
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I wonder, in that lonely phase, like, what was it that did help you? And even when your friend went through it, what allowed you to be there for each other in a way that was comforting and helpful rather than felt uncomfortable and unhealthy?
- THTaylor Hill
I needed to be alone. Um, I needed to, like... I needed to feel it. I needed to-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, I got it
- THTaylor Hill
... sit in it. I didn't wanna talk about it, um, because I didn't want... People wanna be there for you, and that's really special, and that's really helpful, but I didn't want people to be there for me yet. I wasn't ready for people to be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry," or, you know... 'Cause people don't know what to say sometimes when it comes to grief or loss. Sometimes I don't know what to say either.
- JSJay Shetty
Agreed.
- THTaylor Hill
I have no idea on s- how to react to some things still, having experienced my own version of grief. Um, how, how do you be there for somebody? It's a difficult thing. I mean, I didn't know how I needed... Well, I didn't know what I needed from people. Um, I didn't wanna talk about it. I wanted to be alone. I didn't want anyone to know because I didn't want people to talk to me about it or say things to me because I just wasn't ready to hear it yet. Um, and the way that I think... I told people that were really, really close to me, really... My husband obviously knew because it happened to him, too. Um, and my two best friends knew, and the way that I feel like they were there for me, because they didn't know what to say, they didn't say anything. They were there for me physically. They held me. They let me cry. I just sat there, and I cried and said nothing, and they just held my hand and were like, just sat there with me and, like, let me cry.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
They didn't ask me questions. They didn't ask me how I felt. They didn't ask-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- THTaylor Hill
They didn't say anything to me like-They didn't say, "Everything happens for a reason. Don't worry, like, you'll feel one day," da da da. They didn't go into that, I think because they know me so well, they probably knew that I didn't wanna hear that yet. They just were there, and they listened when I was ready to talk. And then because I wasn't ready, they just let me emote.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
And they just let me cry, and they cried. And I could tell because I was hurt, they were hurt. You know, my, my... When I finally got to my husband and we were together, he just held me. We both cried, and he just held me. And you know, I held him, too, because I think that's another thing is, another layer on top of it is even though it physically happened to me and emotionally was something that I experienced, it was, it was an individual experience to myself. Emotionally, it's something that, it's a loss that h- happened to him as well. He also thought potentially he would be having a child, so we were both grieving something. We were both grieving the loss of, of this. We were both feeling this weird sense of relief at the same time, and then immediately guilty because we felt relief, and then im- immediately anger because we felt guilt. And you know what I mean? [laughs] It's just, it's relentless, these emotions. When it's fresh, you know, you feel literally every single one that's on the rainbow. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- THTaylor Hill
All the colors, we felt, we felt all of them. And I think when it's, when it was the very beginning, I think for me it was just holding pe- people holding me, you know, being in, just being in the space with me. They didn't have to say anything if they didn't know what to say, you know? And when we did sort of start talking about it, I w- I, we first started saying, "This sucks. I can't believe this is happening." Um, you know, it was if I was feeling angry, then they would be angry with me. If I was the, if I was sad, then they were sad with me. Um, so it was ama- they were amazing at being there for me in those ways. And you know, I think it is difficult to know what to say and how to be there for someone.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
But I think following them and how they're reacting is also really good.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
Like, taking the cue from how they're responding is a good way to respond back to someone.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
And, you know, checking in. You know, my, my friends that knew checked in with me, "How are you feeling today?" You know, and then if I didn't wanna talk about it, they were like, "Okay, let me know when you are ready," you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, we're here.
- THTaylor Hill
Mm-hmm. So just, you know, they were checking in, you know, making sure. And then, you know, s- my, my best friend, she, who, she experienced this as well, she continues to check in with me, you know? This is three years later, and we still talk about it. "Oh my gosh," like, "can you believe it? You would have a three-year-old." I'm like, "I know." And it's just we, we get to have these moments together of we would both have a three-year-old right now. That's... And we, we think about that, and we deal with that, and we grieve that, and we grieve the loss of that potential and that direction in life, you know, that thread that didn't-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- THTaylor Hill
... happen in this path. So, um, female friendships are incredible, and they're beautiful. And I think it's really important for women to have women in their life that they can, they can go to, and they can talk to about these things. Because we can relate to each other in other ways that I think, you know, you, I couldn't get from-
- 41:09 – 51:06
The Grief of Losing a Dear Friend
- JSJay Shetty
Let's talk about the grief of losing a friend, uh, because that's really what this is-
- THTaylor Hill
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... a really dear friend. Uh, walk me through those nine years and, and the amazing relationship you built with Tate.
- THTaylor Hill
Yeah. Tate, oh, my angel. Um, I got Tate when I was 18, so it was really kinda in the mix of all this, my life changing. You know, I, I booked the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show not very long after I, I, Tate came into my life. And we went, we walked through life together for nine years, and he was my best friend. And oh, gosh, it's so hard to put it into words because it's, um, it's so, it's such a unique thing to have a deep relationship with an animal. And it sounds, I hope I don't sound crazy. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
No, it's cool.
- THTaylor Hill
Maybe I'm gonna sound a little crazy, but, like, I just feel like the love that, you know, dogs and animals in general have for humans is so unconditional, you know? And they have no judgment. They don't want anything from you but your love back. And it's so pure, and it's so innocent. It's almostChildlike in a way. You know, when I, I, I can only imagine, you know, when you hold a newborn baby for the first time, that immediate connection that you feel to this thing that can't even talk yet and is just a part of you. It's, um, it's really special to have such a, a deep connection to something that literally wants nothing from you except for also the, like, unconditional love. So to have Tate come into my life at that time was so special just because so much was changing. You know, I was growing up. I was, you know, becoming a young woman, from a girl to a woman, and he was there for that. And, you know, I was traveling all the time, and I was away from family, and I just had this little, tiny, innocent soul with me that just always looked at me like, "You're the best and I love you." And Tate taught me so much. I mean, he taught me, you know, responsibility, caring for something other than [laughs] myself, you know, taking care of him, you know, pouring love into him and making sure that he was good and, you know, even well-behaved, and training him and doing all those things is, is, uh, showing him an act of love and making sure that he's a confident, comfortable dog. He, he could be in any scenario, and he was the best boy. And I think he also kinda knew that I was just kinda out there winging it a bit.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTaylor Hill
And he was like, "Oh, God, this girl. This girl has no idea what she's doing, so I'm gonna have to be a good boy now."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTaylor Hill
And he just ... I really sometimes feel like he did teach himself, um, how to just be everywhere with me all the time, and I think that he was meant for me, and he was meant to be in my life, and I think that we were sort of made to ... for each other, and we belonged to each other. Um, and, you know, he was, he was so ... It, it sounds crazy to say this about a dog, but he was so emotional. Like, his eyes were so human. He could look at me, and I knew what he was saying or what he was thinking, or h- I felt that he could feel what I was thinking or what I was feeling. And I definitely think that he also taught me a lot about, you know, emotion and, you know, being ... You know, what's that saying? You know, be the person your dog thinks you are.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTaylor Hill
They think you're great, you know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- THTaylor Hill
They're like, "I love you no matter what."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTaylor Hill
"Yes, Mom, yes."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- THTaylor Hill
So sh- that's the energy they give you, right, is like, "Ha, you're the best." And it's just like, am I the best? But to have something s- you know, this little creature just look at you and think, "You're the best," it kinda makes you wanna be the best, right? You know, constantly trying to grow and be better and change. And, you know, nobody's perfect, and we're- no one will ever be perfect, and we're always learning, and we're always growing, and, um, we're always changing. But having something to do that for and having some- someone to do that with is, is really, is, it's different. You know? Like, it's more intentional, right? So trying to be better because Tate thinks I'm the best is, is a different motivation. So he definitely, um, was there for me through, you know, so much of my life and so much of my life changing. I think from, you know, 18 to 27 are pretty formative years. I, I don't, I'm not a doctor, but I ... Someone told me once that your s- brain stops developing at 25 or something.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- THTaylor Hill
So, you know, he was there... Oh, sorry, I hit the mic. Ah. I talk with my hands. Um, he was there f- he was there from when I had a undeveloped brain to a developed brain, you know? He kinda just saw me through. And he was, he was just the best. I mean, the love of my life. I mean, my soulmate, really, because he just knew, you know? And I, I've never had a connection with any- anyone like that, that I've had with Tate. So, um, I'm just, I'm really grateful that he was in my life. He's the inspiration behind me even wanting to start a pet company, just because I love him so much, and I know other people have felt that before. People who've had, you know, what I like to call a soul dog, they know what I'm talking about. You know? They know that feeling. And, uh, when I shared that I lost Tate, people who've, who'd, you know, been on my journey with me and been maybe following me for a bit know the day I got him and maybe saw, saw him on my Instagram all the time. I mean, he was probably in every single picture on my Instagram for nine years. So I feel like people felt like they knew him. And when I said, when I, you know, shared that he was sick, and then when I ultimately shared that he had passed, the overwhelming amount of support and, you know, messages that I got, and also shared experiences that I received from, "I lost my soul dog 10 years ago, and I still think about them every single day," it made me feel, it made me feel less alone and less maybe kind of strange for feeling this way about a dog. Because I ... You know, you get both. You get ... I got amazing, overwhelming comments that were just overwhelmingly positive. I mean, just ... I, you know, "I know what you've, what you're going through. I went through this. Y- you know, just remember he's always with you." You know, I got messages like that that touched me so s- deeply and positively, and I just felt so grateful that I got those messages. But then of course you get the flip side where people don't understand. They're like, "Oh, it's a dog. What's the big deal?" You know? "Oh, it's a dog. Move on." I'll, I'll never move on from Tate's death. My grief will change, for sure. Um, my perspective of his death will change. Um, and it, and it has even since I lost him. You know, I ... It's, it's devastating, and it's heartbreaking. And, you know, to anyone who's felt that, I know what that feels like. And don't let anybody rush you, you know? Some people don't understand that it's, just because this is a dog and, you know, not a person, it doesn't mean that-They don't deserve the same amount of time and space and energy you would give to grieving anything else. So I would just say, you know, take your time, and you're not alone, and it's, it's a not a fun thing to go through at all. So, um, I think I'll always miss Tate, you know? I don't see how I can't, you know? And I think to say to, to get over something is such a harsh way of saying it because I'll probably never get over it. I'll never really get over losing Tate. I can heal from it, and I can find, you know, peace with it, but those are two completely different things. Getting over it, you can- how do you get over that, you know? It does... It's not something that... It's not a object in my way. It's he's a part of me, and he's no longer here. So yeah, I definitely think, um, losing a pet is, is tough, and, you know, losing one that you have such a deep, strong connection with that's been with you for so many things with no expectation from you other than just they wanna be there with you is, that's a tough loss and a tough thing to, to, um, work through, so.
- JSJay Shetty
Thank you for sharing that, I mean it. What today shows us is that grief doesn't end, it evolves, and during the holidays, that evolution can become more visible. The people we love continue to live on in the memories we return to, the traditions we carry forward, and the quiet ways they still guide us. Kate showed us that healing often happens in the smallest moments. Nicole reminded us that forgiveness can be a form of freedom. Karan shared why the most important words should never wait. And Taylor affirmed that every kind of loss deserves to be honored, even when the world expects us to be okay. If this season feels heavy for you, there's nothing wrong with you. Grief is universal, and so is love, and it's love that allows us to keep going, to keep remembering, and that carries us forward even when they're no longer here. If you loved this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Julie Smith on unblocking negative emotions and how to embrace difficult feelings.
- SPSpeaker
You've just got to be motivated every day, and if you're not, then what are you doing? And, and actually, humans don't work that way. Motivation, you have to treat it like any other emotion. Some days it will be there. Some days it won't
Episode duration: 51:06
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