If You Feel LOST, LAZY & UNMOTIVATED In Life, WATCH THIS! | Jay Shetty

1. 0:00 – 3:20

   Fast-Forwarding Your Life and Shadowing a Monk

   1. JSJay Shetty0:00

      You'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined. And that's because the path that's paved up and down is far different to the path we pave. I've always had friends who are older than me, and I could see a lot of them in the most successful careers, successful jobs, beautiful partners, whatever it was, but I saw a sense of lack of fulfillment, meaning, and purpose in their lives. And I've always been an observer, and I would see these people who are, like, five years older than me, seven years older than me, maybe 10 years older than me, and I'd be watching them and go, "Is that the life I want?" And often the advice I give to people today is fast-forward where you are, look at yourself in 10, 15, 20 years' time and ask yourself the question, "Is that where I want to be?"

   2. SPSpeaker0:42

      Mm.

   3. JSJay Shetty0:42

      If you're in a company, look at the person who's 20 years ahead of you and ask yourself, "Is that where I want to be?" If you're in a startup, look at where other startups have got to in similar roles and go, "Is that where I want to be?" And if the answer is no, then you need to find a new path. And for me, the answer at that time from observing was no. The path that my parents or society or the university I went to or the community I had that was carving out for me, it didn't feel like the path for me, so I was almost seeking an alternative or a new path. I was just so fortunate that it happened to be an uplifting, powerful path, as opposed to something that could have actually taken me down the wrong road, because that could've been possible, too.

   4. SPSpeaker1:25

      So walk me through-

   5. JSJay Shetty1:26

      Yeah

   6. SPSpeaker1:26

      ... the first time you step off the plane in India. It's summer.

   7. JSJay Shetty1:30

      And so I'm, I'm living there, I'm waking up. I'm almost doing all the practices, just as if you were shadowing a CEO.

   8. SPSpeaker1:35

      Mm.

   9. JSJay Shetty1:35

      I'm just shadowing a monk. And so I'm just shadowing his lifestyle. So we wake up ... He's, he's, like, one [laughs] of the most elite monks. So we're waking up at, like, 2:00 AM every day after sleeping at, like, 9:00 or 10:00 PM, and then we study these ancient Vedas, which are 5,000-plus-years old, together, and we spend two hours. And I'm studying with the best of the best here, so he can, like, analyze and assimilate, and I'm learning fast, taking notes. Then 4:00 AM we go to collective meditation. We do those practices with the other monks as well. 6:00 AM we have personal meditation. So I'm literally going through the life of a monk and falling in love with it step by step, going, "Wow, I've never had this experience before." And I just threw myself in, and I was practicing it to the T, right? It wasn't like, "Oh, no, my back hurts when I sit on the floor. I can't [laughs] stay here for too long," or you know, today when people are like, "Oh, I can't meditate for longer than two minutes," I was like, "No, I'm gonna do it for two hours. If that's what they're doing, I'm gonna give it a go," because I can only test ... The hypothesis will only be true if the experiment is carried out to the degree that they are. So if the hypothesis is if you live like this you'll be happy, more fulfilled, then I wanna do that.

   10. SPSpeaker2:44

       All right. So let's explore this then through the lens of creating one's own perfect life-

   11. JSJay Shetty2:49

       Yes

   12. SPSpeaker2:50

       ... which is pretty interesting, especially bec- And interesting because I think this is so accurate to the way that most people are. It's not like, oh, there's some grand missing thing in my life, but you took that first action. So codify this for me or, or for anybody that wants ... They don't know what their ideal life looks like, they just know that they're not living it yet.

   13. JSJay Shetty3:08

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker3:09

       So, uh, step number one is take it seriously. To find out if the hypothesis is true or not, you have to take the, um, the, the experiment, you have to do it sincerely.

   15. JSJay Shetty3:18

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker3:18

       Um, what comes after that?

2. 3:20 – 6:55

   Three Steps to Discover Your Ideal Life

   1. JSJay Shetty3:20

      I think even one step before that is, is opening yourself up to new role models and new experiences. See, we live in echo chambers. We're just surrounded by the same thinking. How often do you bump into a monk? You know? It just doesn't happen. You don't have ... No one has a dinner party and goes, "Oh, yeah, we've just invited the monk, you know, from town-"

   2. SPSpeaker3:38

      [laughs]

   3. JSJay Shetty3:38

      "... like, the local monk." Like, no one ever does that. And so y- we meet people who are just like us most of the time. And we talk about this in business all the time. If you wanna be a billionaire, spend time with billionaires. If you wanna be a millionaire, spend time with millionaires. If you wanna be a tech startup, spend time with ... You know, that's, that's the common rhetoric that we hear all the time. But what if you wanna find purpose and master the mind? There's no one better than a monk who's mastered the mind. So, so for me, the first step is just opening yourself up to new experiences and new role models, because most of us can't see ourselves in people, so then we try and fit ourselves into the boxes that we do see. And, and, I mean, there's this beautiful quote that I, I've been saying it everywhere, and I wish I wrote it, but I didn't. So it's by a philosopher and writer named Cooley, and he said that, "Today I'm not what I think I am, I'm not what you think I am, I am what I think you think I am." Right? And just let that blow your mind for a moment. [laughs] It's, uh, it's so powerful. "I'm not what I think I am, I'm not what you think I am, I am what I think you think I am." So we live in this perception of a perception of ourselves, hence my identity is made by what my parents think I should be. My identity is made up by what my college or university thinks I should achieve. While you're living in that bubble and that echo chamber, getting to what you really wanna do is impossible, because maybe that just doesn't fit, and I think so many people feel that way today, that they don't fit into the current education system. They don't fit with the three or four or five careers that you're taught exist. So that process of self-excavation and actualization first requires being exposed. You can't be what you can't see. If I never saw a monk, I would never have wanted to be a monk. If I never meet a billionaire, I wouldn't want to be one, because I wouldn't know what that feels like. I don't know what it looks like. I don't know what it takes. And, and I think that's the biggest challenge of our society, that we're not exposed. So that's the first step, being exposed to unique experiences and role models. Second step is finding that experience or role model that you're passionate about and, exactly like you said, taking it seriously. Shadow them, network with them, spend time with them, observe them, even from afar. It takes that observation, being addicted to observing that person's lifestyle. And then the third step is going yes or no. Does that work for me? Not everyone who's gonna go off and become a monk is gonna feel like the way I did, and that's cool. But not everyone is gonna go and follow and shadow a billionaire and go, "That's exactly the lifestyle I want." They may want the result, but do they want the hard work that goes with it? And so for me, that's the third step. It's observing, focusing, shadowing, getting as close to the process of that individual, and then going yes or no. Do I want that process? Not do I want the result.

   4. SPSpeaker6:34

      Mm.

   5. JSJay Shetty6:35

      Everyone wants to be that monk who's fully enlightened, you know, can walk through, has an incredible aura that people just gravitate towards, but when you realize he has to wake up at 2:00 AM every day and sleeps about four to six hours, you're like, "Ah, you know, I don't wanna do [laughs] that. That, that doesn't sound like me." Yeah.

   6. SPSpeaker6:50

      All right. So-

   7. JSJay Shetty6:50

      Yeah, go for it

   8. SPSpeaker6:51

      ... a couple things. One-

   9. JSJay Shetty6:52

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker6:52

       ... you said he's as powerful as he is.

   11. JSJay Shetty6:55

       Yeah.

3. 6:55 – 12:31

   Power, Detachment and the Best Part of Being a Monk

   1. SPSpeaker6:55

      Define power for me.

   2. JSJay Shetty6:57

      Power being ... So from a monk's perspec- perspective, the greatest power is to be self-controlled, to be able to train the mind and energy to focus it exactly where you want it and when you want it to be. You are completely detached and undeterred from external ups and downs. You're able to navigate anything that seems tough, challenging, fun, excitement with the same amount of being equipoised and balanced and equanimity, without being too excited in pleasure or being too depressed in pain, but knowing how to navigate every situation. To me, that's great strength and great power.

   3. SPSpeaker7:37

      Um, I heard in one of your talks you were saying that if you look at, um, a, a literal lifeline-

   4. JSJay Shetty7:44

      Mm-hmm

   5. SPSpeaker7:44

      ... a heartbeat-

   6. JSJay Shetty7:44

      Yeah

   7. SPSpeaker7:44

      ... for instance, you know, it's, it's up and it's down, and people have this sense that something like enlightenment would be that, um, the equanimity forever-

   8. JSJay Shetty7:53

      Yeah

   9. SPSpeaker7:54

      ... and just an even keel. And you said, "But what, what does that resemble?" It resembles a flat line when you die.

   10. JSJay Shetty7:59

       Correct.

   11. SPSpeaker8:00

       So what is it like ... What I love about you is you sort of went into the wilderness of being a monk, but you've brought it back to the real world. 'Cause when you talk about a monk, you talk about them being detached, and that, to me, seems like the only real way to have that sort of-

   12. JSJay Shetty8:14

       Mm-hmm

   13. SPSpeaker8:14

       ... super even keel existence, which is not appealing to me personally.

   14. JSJay Shetty8:19

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SPSpeaker8:19

       So if you're bringing back that notion of power, of having control over yourself, not letting your emotions take you everywhere, but knowing that life is, is this series of ups and downs, what does that power look like when it's brought back?

   16. JSJay Shetty8:31

       Absolutely, and actually, that's the whole aim of monk training. It's, it's more like a training system than it is a lifelong commitment. It is bringing that mindset into the real world, where you get to test it. Now, I got to do that for real when I left being a monk around five years ago, and when I left, it was like, "Oh, my God, I'm in the real world now again, real world. I have to think about how to apply all this. I'm gonna test for real all this stuff that I've learned." And I was scared. Like, I was nervous, I was anxious, and all [laughs] those things that I've been trained not to be rushed back because for the first time in my life, I had to really put it into practice. And I love that feeling. I'm so glad that I had to do that. So for me, actually, the mindset is completely trainable to bring into the real world. That's, that's what I'm trying to do. And, and what it allows you to do is it allows you to gain clarity and perspective when you need it because you know when you can just take a bird's-eye view from something. You know when you need to get close into something. You know when you need to pull back from something. There's a beautiful verse in the Bhagavad Gita that says that detachment is not that you own nothing. Detachment is that nothing owns you. And, and I love it because to me, that summarizes detachment in a way that it's not usually explained. Usually, people see detachment as being away from everything.

   17. SPSpeaker9:52

       Mm.

   18. JSJay Shetty9:53

       Actually, the greatest detachment is being close to everything and not letting it consume and own you, and that's real power. That's real strength. How many people do we know that have had fame and then that fame has ruined them? So for me, that definition of detachment is possible to practice even in the real world, rather than saying, "Oh, I'm just gonna have a really simple life. I'm just gonna have nothing in life."

   19. SPSpeaker10:16

       What was the best part about being a monk?

   20. JSJay Shetty10:18

       The best part about being a monk is that your morning routine and practices are so powerful that you can actually aspire for more incredible values in life.

   21. SPSpeaker10:30

       Because your mind is clear.

   22. JSJay Shetty10:31

       Because your mind is clear, and you have that ability to have more clarity so you can seek that what is ... which is higher. So I'll give an example of what I mean.

   23. SPSpeaker10:41

       Define-

   24. JSJay Shetty10:41

       Yeah

   25. SPSpeaker10:41

       ... is that what you're about to define?

   26. JSJay Shetty10:42

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker10:43

       What is higher?

   28. JSJay Shetty10:43

       Yes, exactly. So for me, being able to overcome ego, being able to overcome envy, being able to overcome jealousy, being able, able to c- overcome the negative of competitive state ... There's a positive competitive state, and there's a negative competitive state. Today, when people are looking on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube, all you're looking at is, oh, she got that many likes, or he got that many likes. She got engaged, or he got married, or oh my God, look at her body, or look at that. And it's like, that stuff's destroying us inside. Envy, jealousy, ego, greed. To be able to have enough clarity to purify yourself of those things is gonna alleviate the, the biggest anxieties and depressions of our time and mental health problems. And, and we know that. We know that because all the mental health research today suggests that things like isolation, overexposure ... We now can have more pain consumption in one day because of what we're exposed to than the pain we would have had in a lifetime. That's huge. Like, that, that's ridiculous to think that in one day, because of the media, news, and social media, we consume more negative than we did in a lifetime. For me, being able to have time, energy, and clarity to focus on self-purification- That is the best thing about being a monk because you have that time, reflection, and a process and an environment that only allows you to become more purified of those things.

   29. SPSpeaker12:19

       So if I was the interviewer that I wanted to be, I would've asked you this question when we were on the topic, but I'm gonna go back-

   30. JSJay Shetty12:25

       Yeah
4. 12:31 – 15:58

   Head, Heart and Hand: Defining an Ideal Life

   1. SPSpeaker12:31

      define an ideal life for me.

   2. JSJay Shetty12:33

      Mm-hmm. So, and an ideal life for me is a life, and this applies to a company, an organization, an institution for me, is an ideal life is when we all have a head, a heart, and a hand, all three elements together working in alignment. Without one or the other, we start to lose something. If you only have a head and a heart, you'll find that life is stable-

   3. SPSpeaker12:58

      And define each of those.

   4. JSJay Shetty12:59

      Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure, sure, sure. So a head is the clarity of vision.

   5. SPSpeaker13:05

      What you want.

   6. JSJay Shetty13:05

      What you want. Knowing what you want, the way you picture life, and being able to navigate and make the decisions to get there. That's a good head. A good heart is being able to understand what your intuition and heart wants, being able to connect and tap into that understanding deeper and beyond the vision you may have painted for yourself. So I often say to people that you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined, and that's because the path that's paved up and down is far different to the path we pave. So you can have a great head and a great vision and a great mission and know where you wanna go, but if your heart's not able to have that resilience and be able to adapt and, and have compassion and care and all of that, then, then you're not gonna be able to make the toughest decisions without your heart. But to be able to realize that we need to care and be sustainable and long-lasting requires a heart. And a hand is that service, wanting to pass that on, that which you have, wanting to give it forward, pay it forward, the idea of serving with what you have. I often say to people, "Your passion is for you. Your purpose is for others." Your passion makes you happy, but when you use your passion to make a difference in someone else's life, that's a service, that's a purpose.

   7. SPSpeaker14:23

      Mm.

   8. JSJay Shetty14:23

      And that's the hand.

   9. SPSpeaker14:24

      All right.

   10. JSJay Shetty14:24

       So those are my three elements of an ideal life.

   11. SPSpeaker14:30

       I like that a lot, and I, I ... When you first said it, and I'm glad you defined it, 'cause when you first said it, I thought the heart was gonna be the part about, like, you know, just compassion and caring for others, doing something for other people. Um, but I like that, the hand, um, being tied to service.

   12. JSJay Shetty14:44

       Mm.

   13. SPSpeaker14:45

       So one thing that I think a lot about is deep fulfillment.

   14. JSJay Shetty14:48

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SPSpeaker14:48

       Like, really when I think about, okay, what is a life worth living, honestly, it comes down to neurochemistry for me.

   16. JSJay Shetty14:55

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SPSpeaker14:55

       And it comes down to experiencing this world in a way that optimizes for, for sustainable pleasure, which I'll differentiate between a bowl of ice cream, a bump of cocaine. Those are pleasurable.

   18. JSJay Shetty15:09

       Absolutely.

   19. SPSpeaker15:09

       And I, I haven't done the cocaine-

   20. JSJay Shetty15:10

       Yeah

   21. SPSpeaker15:10

       ... but the ice cream I can speak for.

   22. JSJay Shetty15:12

       Okay. I've done both.

   23. SPSpeaker15:12

       It's been good.

   24. JSJay Shetty15:13

       [laughs] Yeah.

   25. SPSpeaker15:13

       So I'll [laughs] trust that it's, it holds up.

   26. JSJay Shetty15:15

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker15:16

       Um, but they, they don't bring a lasting fulfillment. It's not sustainable, right?

   28. JSJay Shetty15:20

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SPSpeaker15:20

       So both of them end up creating this self-destructive loop, and purpose really does become that thing that gives you something that is on a neurochemical level-

   30. JSJay Shetty15:30

       Mm-hmm
5. 15:58 – 21:06

   Marrying Ancient Wisdom With Modern Science

   1. JSJay Shetty15:58

      So I studied behavioral science at university, so I've always been fascinated by why people do what they do, and whenever I was reading these books that are 5,000 years old, my greatest fascination was finding a principle and finding its relevance in modern science. And I said to myself, "The day I can't find that, I'll quit. I won't believe in this anymore." So I'm still doing that, and I'm ready to quit. If someone shows me a piece of science and I can't find a principle in these ancient literatures, or actually what I like to call these timeless literatures, then I'll give up my faith because for me, it has to track forward, and I'll give you a really basic example. Today we're in the gratitude movement. There's like a million gratitude journals out there. There's a million scientific studies on gratitude, and gratitude has been linked to better mental health, self-awareness, better relationships. I mean, there's so many scientific studies on the, on the neuro level that shows that gratitude is great for your mind, brain, and fulfillment. Now, I look back, [laughs] and gratitude is all over the timeless wisdom. One of the first things we were trained to do when we were a monk was to pay our respects to the earth for what it gives us, and you do that first thing in the morning. What is that if not gratitude? When you wake up in the morning, you thank the earth for the food. You thank the earth for the water. You thank the earth for allowing yourself to walk. You start your day with gratitude. Today, the biggest tip on Forbes and Inc. and everything is, start your day with gratitude. Like, where does it come from? It's, it's right there. These things are old. So I l- I get fascinated. I'm intrigued by the parallels and patterns because it saves you time. It's the same way as which if I say that this business person got invested by this company, and that's why they're successful, because they had the right investors, et cetera. That's a pattern, so I know if I'm building a business in that area, I'm gonna look for investors like that.

   2. SPSpeaker17:48

      Mm.

   3. JSJay Shetty17:48

      It's the same thing. That pattern saves you time rather than you trying to figure out, does gratitude work? How shall I be grateful? Creating your own process almost.

   4. SPSpeaker17:58

      It's really interesting.

   5. JSJay Shetty17:59

      [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker17:59

      Life has taught me to stop believing everything I think.

   7. JSJay Shetty18:03

      Mm-hmm. Yes.

   8. SPSpeaker18:04

      Uh, and the way that it's taught me that is by relentlessly punishing me every time I over-invest in being right- And I remember when my wife and I first got together, she used to get chest infections all the time, and she told me it's because, um, of the AC.

   9. JSJay Shetty18:20

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SPSpeaker18:21

       And I was like, "That doesn't make sense." And she was like, "No, no, no, my, my grandmother used to just swear up and down if you, if you're hot and you stand in front of a fan, that you're gonna get sick." And I was like, "That is the biggest load of, like, crap I've ever heard in my life. That does not make sense." Like, getting sick comes from either bacteria or virus, like, it's that simple. And she was like, "I'm just saying it's... My grandma always said and it seems true to me." And I was just like, "Oh, God, this is exhausting." And then one time I went to a doctor and I was like, "Yeah, and my wife is crazy and thinks that, um, when you're hot, if you stand in front of AC, it'll make you sick." And he goes, "Oh, yeah, she's right."

   11. JSJay Shetty18:56

       [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker18:56

       And I was like, "Hold on."

   13. JSJay Shetty18:58

       [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker18:59

       And he was like, "Well, she's sort of right." He's like, "This is what's happening. You have a mucus layer membrane in your throat that's... It keeps it moist, keeps germs from being able to break the, break through the barrier. And so they get trapped, they go to your stomach, they're killed by the acid," or whatever. And he said, "But if you get a crack in that, then the, the bacteria or virus can actually get into your bloodstream, and that's how you get sick. And it's just drying her throat out." And I was like, "Whoa." And it was one of those moments where I was like, how many wives' tales are true? Like, directionally.

   15. JSJay Shetty19:26

       Yes.

   16. SPSpeaker19:26

       They're not accurate, but they're true-

   17. JSJay Shetty19:29

       Yes

   18. SPSpeaker19:29

       ... if you see what I mean.

   19. JSJay Shetty19:29

       Yes.

   20. SPSpeaker19:30

       And so that's how I think when you think of a book that's lasted as long as it, as it has, and I know you and I, we've never talked about this, but we share a real fascination for storytelling-

   21. JSJay Shetty19:38

       Yes

   22. SPSpeaker19:38

       ... because it's a way to convey an idea-

   23. JSJay Shetty19:40

       Mm

   24. SPSpeaker19:40

       ... it, that resonates emotionally and allows people to carry it on and pass it on. And obviously, this all starts long before we have science and can prove any of this, but we see the patterns. We need a way to encapsulate the pattern. We encapsulate it in a story. The story is in and of itself totally fake, but now in a modern context, we're getting lost in that the, the story is fake even though the take-home message is incredibly powerful.

   25. JSJay Shetty20:05

       Yes.

   26. SPSpeaker20:05

       And so as I... I mean, it's the classic story, right? The more you learn, the less you realize you know.

   27. JSJay Shetty20:11

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   28. SPSpeaker20:12

       And just as I've gotten older and really started to understand this stuff and read as much as I do, and quite frankly, live and suffer and go through things-

   29. JSJay Shetty20:20

       Mm

   30. SPSpeaker20:20

       ... like my wife having, uh, microbiome issues, and at first thinking her, all of her descriptions make absolutely no sense. And then you, you stop passing a judgment on it and start saying, "What if everything she's saying is actually true?"
6. 21:06 – 31:30

   Self-Awareness, Noise and What We Really Crave

   1. SPSpeaker21:06

      All right. Let's talk about-

   2. JSJay Shetty21:07

      Yeah

   3. SPSpeaker21:07

      ... behavioral science-

   4. JSJay Shetty21:08

      Mm

   5. SPSpeaker21:08

      ... self-awareness. Watching your content, which... Have you ever looked at how much content you've put out?

   6. JSJay Shetty21:15

      No.

   7. SPSpeaker21:15

      It's a lot, dude.

   8. JSJay Shetty21:17

      Mm.

   9. SPSpeaker21:17

      Like, when you search your name, like, to go... 'Cause I, I normally try to watch, like, basically everything, and I was like, "I give up."

   10. JSJay Shetty21:22

       [laughs]

   11. SPSpeaker21:23

       Like, it's just, it's really incredible. Um, and going through that stuff, it seems really clear to me that you have massive self-awareness.

   12. JSJay Shetty21:31

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SPSpeaker21:33

       And what would you say, like, is, A, is there a process for people to gain more self-awareness? And then what are from a behavioral, um, uh, you know, just human behavior level, what are things that trip up the average person?

   14. JSJay Shetty21:45

       The first answer, I mean, I'm a huge fan of the book Thinking Fast and Slow. I don't know how, if you've read it.

   15. SPSpeaker21:51

       It's a great book.

   16. JSJay Shetty21:51

       Yeah, it's a great book, because for me it's got a really close pattern connection again to what I studied. So just understanding system one and system two. If anyone watching hasn't read it, I highly recommend it. Just being able to differentiate between system one and system two, as Daniel Kahneman calls it, in the Vedic philosophy it would be called differentiating between the mind and the intelligence. Knowing how to differentiate the voices in your head is the first level of self-awareness.

   17. SPSpeaker22:18

       So break down what system one and system two are.

   18. JSJay Shetty22:20

       Absolutely. So system one is your initial response to anything that happens. It's, it's a stop that I can't really say. So if you say something I don't like, my system one naturally would be a face that I pull that I'm like, "I don't agree with that." That's, that's the understanding of what system one in. It's your initial default reaction in the moment. That can be positive often. For example, if someone pulls out a knife, you feel scared and you run. That's system one. That's a good thing. It's, it's safe for you. But also system one is someone says something that hurts your ego and you start defending yourself immediately. That's also, that's a negative of system one. That we would refer to as the mind. It's built up of conditioning. Those responses are conditioned. Those default elements are all there because of habit and continuous practice. The system two is more like the intelligence, what I would say is more like the parent. If you can, consider system one to be more like a child, system two is more like a parent. It looks more at the long term, it looks more at the bigger picture. It processes that default reaction through a set of checking and metrics to decide whether that's true. The child is the, the one that wants everything right away, impatient, quickly responding, straightaway, uh, reacting when it doesn't get what he wants. The intelligent parent, a good one, knows what the child wants and needs and what's better for it in the long term. Just starting there and being able to reflect and observe the different voices inside of us is a great place to start your self-awareness, because the biggest challenge is that most of us don't know what we're listening to, and we don't, most of us don't even know that there are more than one voice inside of us. Just getting over that line is a huge win because now at least you're trying to differentiate between what you're hearing, and that's gonna help you make better decisions in the future. So that was answer one. Does that answer your question?

   19. SPSpeaker24:17

       Oh, yeah. Most definitely.

   20. JSJay Shetty24:17

       And second one was?

   21. SPSpeaker24:19

       What, um, so that's awareness.

   22. JSJay Shetty24:21

       Yeah.

   23. SPSpeaker24:21

       How can ... What are, like, typical things that trip people up-

   24. JSJay Shetty24:24

       Yeah

   25. SPSpeaker24:24

       ... that ... So in your answer just now, it's like, okay, if you wanna become more aware, just know that those two things are happening, right?

   26. JSJay Shetty24:31

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SPSpeaker24:31

       You're gonna have an initial response and then one that's more calculated.

   28. JSJay Shetty24:34

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SPSpeaker24:34

       Now, be aware of these two or three things that are also coming for you.

   30. JSJay Shetty24:38

       Mm-hmm. The biggest challenge is that there's just so much noise. It's like have you ever had someone in your home, maybe it's your wife, or maybe it's a friend or whatever, just play a really bad song too often, right? Just playing a song that you really don't like-
7. 31:30 – 39:15

   Letting Go of the Fear of Fear

   1. SPSpeaker31:30

      What does it actually mean, letting go of the fear of fear?

   2. JSJay Shetty31:33

      Yeah. So I talk about how we fear the wrong things. Like-

   3. SPSpeaker31:38

      What do we fear?

   4. JSJay Shetty31:38

      So most of us are fearful of how our friends are reacting, what's happening on social media, and what's the random bit of news that we heard. None of it is fact-based. That's one of the biggest issues that we have.

   5. SPSpeaker31:49

      It's worry-based.

   6. JSJay Shetty31:50

      It's worry-based, and it's also imagination-based. So we become fiction writers.

   7. SPSpeaker31:54

      [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty31:54

      We've all watched too many movies, now we start writing these beautiful movies in our head. Well, not beautiful, scary movies in our head-

   9. SPSpeaker32:00

      Yes

   10. JSJay Shetty32:00

       ... of what may happen. So our imagination, and Seneca said it best, "We suffer twice, once in reality and once in imagination."

   11. SPSpeaker32:08

       Hmm.

   12. JSJay Shetty32:08

       Right? We suffer twice, and this is the biggest-

   13. SPSpeaker32:10

       What actually happens to us-

   14. JSJay Shetty32:12

       Totally

   15. SPSpeaker32:12

       ... and then the story we continue to tell ourselves.

   16. JSJay Shetty32:14

       Totally. Now, there's this incredible study in the book that I have to talk about.

   17. SPSpeaker32:16

       Tell me.

   18. JSJay Shetty32:17

       So they took monks, and they took non-monks, and they se-

   19. SPSpeaker32:21

       They competed against each other [laughs]

   20. JSJay Shetty32:22

       They competed against each other, literally. So they put this plate where you experience heat, and so what happens is the non-monks touch this plate. Now, this plate heats up gradually, softly-

   21. SPSpeaker32:34

       Uh-huh

   22. JSJay Shetty32:34

       ... and then at one point it gets really hot for 10 seconds, and then it cools down. And so what happened is that when the non-monks touched it, the anxiety and pressure and stress in their brain just triggered straight away, even though it wasn't that hot.

   23. SPSpeaker32:46

       It wasn't hot.

   24. JSJay Shetty32:46

       It, it was heating-

   25. SPSpeaker32:47

       Gotcha

   26. JSJay Shetty32:47

       ... but it wasn't hot to do anything major to you. But the anxiety and stress in imagination or in anticipation went through the roof in the non-monks. Now, this is what's fascinating. When the monks touched it, they showed that it didn't feel anything as it rose, but as it got to its highest they felt physical pain, but they showed no trigger of emotional pain, because they did not assign any emotional element to that pain. So my point with that is you can look at the news right now, and you can get scared straight away, and get in complete freeze mode, feeling stuck, paralyzed, whatever it is, because what you're now doing is you're creating a story of what's going to happen.

   27. SPSpeaker33:29

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JSJay Shetty33:30

       And that story-

   29. SPSpeaker33:31

       And you can cause sickness in yourself-

   30. JSJay Shetty33:33

       You can cause sickness inside yourself
8. 39:15 – 47:15

   Ego, Self-Esteem and Serving Others

   1. SPSpeaker39:15

      How do we build self-belief, self-esteem, self-confidence, while also not allowing our ego to be so big and think we can just do anything? How do we balance ego and self-confidence so they don't hurt each other?

   2. JSJay Shetty39:29

      Yeah, absolutely. And, and what we experience most of the time is extremes.

   3. SPSpeaker39:34

      Yes.

   4. JSJay Shetty39:34

      So the two extremes that most of us experience are either I have to think I'm the best-

   5. SPSpeaker39:39

      Yes

   6. JSJay Shetty39:39

      ... I'm the best in the world.

   7. SPSpeaker39:40

      I can do anything.

   8. JSJay Shetty39:40

      I can crush anyone.

   9. SPSpeaker39:42

      [laughs]

   10. JSJay Shetty39:42

       Like, I'm like gonna show everyone what I'm like. Or most of us experience the other extreme, which is I'm the worst.

   11. SPSpeaker39:49

       Mm.

   12. JSJay Shetty39:49

       I'm the stupidest, I'm the dumbest, I'm the most worthless, I'm the biggest loser. Notice how that's both ego.

   13. SPSpeaker39:58

       Mm. Really?

   14. JSJay Shetty39:58

       The eg- Yes.

   15. SPSpeaker39:59

       Why is the negative ego?

   16. JSJay Shetty39:59

       So the ego wants to be the best of the best, or the ego wants to be the worst of the worst. The ego won't accept being in the middle.

   17. SPSpeaker40:07

       Really?

   18. JSJay Shetty40:07

       The ego wants to feel the deepest sense of being the lowest.

   19. SPSpeaker40:12

       [laughs]

   20. JSJay Shetty40:12

       And that's why victim mentality-

   21. SPSpeaker40:14

       Yes

   22. JSJay Shetty40:14

       ... is actually a consequence of ego.

   23. SPSpeaker40:17

       Really?

   24. JSJay Shetty40:17

       Yeah. That's how it's explained in the Bhagavad Gita, because the point is that you can't deal with just being bad, you have to be the worst. [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker40:23

       The wor- My pain is the worst.

   26. JSJay Shetty40:24

       Exactly.

   27. SPSpeaker40:25

       I think, um, Jada talked about this-

   28. JSJay Shetty40:27

       Yes

   29. SPSpeaker40:27

       ... on your podcast where she was like, "You know, I had to tell people why my hurt was more painful than their hurt, and they could never understand how bad it was," right?

   30. JSJay Shetty40:36

       Exactly. Exactly. That's, yeah-
9. 47:15 – 54:06

   Monkey Mind vs Monk Mind and Whose Goals Are Yours

   1. JSJay Shetty47:15

      and greed.

   2. SPSpeaker47:16

      And, and what's the difference between the monkey mind and the monk mind?

   3. JSJay Shetty47:19

      Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up.

   4. SPSpeaker47:20

      [laughs]

   5. JSJay Shetty47:20

      So, so the monkey mind is what we experience on a day-to-day basis. The monkey mind is restless. The monkey mind is jumping from branch to branch. The monkey mind's trying to find a bigger banana. The monkey mind is constantly just, like, feeling flustered, dissatisfied-

   6. SPSpeaker47:36

      Scarce

   7. JSJay Shetty47:37

      ... scarce, and overthinking everything. The monk mind is the exact opposite. The monk mind is calm and composed. The monk mind knows to be focused and aware. The monk mind knows. So everything in this book, and everything that we're talking about, is the transformation from the monkey mind that we experience to the monk mind. The monkey mind is almost the enemy to the monk mind. It's the opposite.

   8. SPSpeaker48:00

      Yes.

   9. JSJay Shetty48:01

      The monks start with identity and at the root of the issue, because a lot of what we experience in the world today, as you know, and, and I know how holistic you are in the way you advise your patients. When you were speaking on my podcast, I was so impressed by you and how you're able to tie in so many psychological and natural practices and relational exercises that can improve people's health and wellbeing overall. I remember you talking about encouraging your clients to see more friends as a way of, uh, changing the way they feel. And I was thinking, "Wow, this person's got so many great ideas." And the reason is because, Rangan, you also have that monk mindset of you go to the root of the issue. It's really easy to just say, "Oh, well, just take two of these a day," or, "Try this," or, you know, "Maybe you need to do this." But when you think about it from the root perspective, where do our challenges arise? And our challenges arise by how we see ourself And what I believe Rangan's referring to is there's this quote that I begin my book with and that I've shared in interviews for the last few years, and it's from a writer named Charles Horton Cooley who wrote this in the 1900s. And what he said is that... Sorry, I think it's in the 1800s, at the end of the 1800s, towards the 1900s. And he said, and, and bear with me, and you've got to really listen closely to this. So what he said that, "The challenge today is I'm not what I think I am, I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am." Now, just let that blow your mind for a moment. I will explain it, I promise. I'm not what I think I am, I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am, which means we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. So I'll break it down. If I think Rangan thinks I'm smart, I'll say I feel smart. But if I think Rangan thinks I'm not smart, then I'll say I'm not smart. And so the challenge is that we're basing how we feel about ourselves on what we think someone thinks of us. And, and the greatest challenge with that is, how do you have any idea if what you think someone thinks about you is even true, and whether that's even the best place to start? So that's where our identity struggles. We start pursuing things in life because we think other people value them. It's almost like, let's think of the most playground version of this. If I remember wearing Hi-Tec shoes from BHS to the playground, right?

   10. SPSpeaker50:33

       [laughs]

   11. JSJay Shetty50:33

       I remember my mom, because my parents didn't buy me Nike, uh, trainers, uh, or Adidas trainers, which I always wanted. You know, we didn't come from that background. I d- I couldn't, couldn't afford them, and my parents didn't want t- me to have them. So I'd walk in with my Hi-Tec trainers from BHS. They were about 10 quid or whatever they were.

   12. SPSpeaker50:48

       [laughs]

   13. JSJay Shetty50:49

       And, and, and you know, to me, it didn't make a difference. I didn't really know at that time whether Hi-Tec was good or bad. They were just trainers that my parents bought me. Now, everyone, the cool kid at school, had the latest Nike trainers. All of a sudden, I start thinking that he's now surrounded by everyone. Everyone's talking about his trainers. Everyone's giving him adoration. Everyone's giving him respect. Everyone's talking about his trainers. So now I think that if I want to have that same experience and love from people, that I need to get that, not realizing that I may be able to get deeper love from people by being kind and compassionate, [laughs] that I may actually be able to build a real relationship with people if I'm loving, and, and considerate, and empathetic. And it's so crazy how your life can become about pursuing something, and that's why Jim Carrey puts it best, and I'm paraphrasing. He says, you know, everyone in the world should achieve everything they've ever wanted and accomplish everything they've ever pursued just to realize that it's not the point. Now, that doesn't mean the monk mindset is not about not pursuing your goals. It's actually about pursuing your truest goals, your truest self, and your most authentic, aligned goals. So it's not about not having goals. It's about making sure that your goals are actually yours.

   14. SPSpeaker52:09

       Yeah. A- and you know, I get shivers when you say that Cooley quote.

   15. JSJay Shetty52:15

       Oh, me too, man.

   16. SPSpeaker52:15

       And act- and I think I've had a, I've had a flashback. I think, I can't say for sure where I was when I heard that interview, but I think I was on a train from Manchester to London, or London back to Manchester, and I think I pressed pause, and I think I wrote it in my notes. I think, I'm pretty sure I wrote it, and I, I rewound it. I played it again, and I thought, "Hold on. I've got the first part-

   17. JSJay Shetty52:38

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker52:38

       "... the s- the second part. What, what's that third part?" And I really had to sit with it for a while, and I would urge people, if they need to, press pause right now-

   19. JSJay Shetty52:47

       [laughs]

   20. SPSpeaker52:47

       ... listen to it, and really think about it. And I think, you know, it's really interesting, you know, hearing that, and I reflect on my children, who I know you had a, a very brief, lovely conversation with just before we started. I might put that in at the end of the podcast maybe.

   21. JSJay Shetty53:03

       Please do. It was beautiful. [laughs]

   22. SPSpeaker53:05

       [laughs] But I, I think about this as they go through school, and, you know, they start to see what other people have got. And, you know, um, we, my wife and I, we're very keen to try and not put value on those things because I know I also had experiences like that when I'd see, "Oh, God, man, they're wearing those things. I want to wear those because if I wear them, I'm going to be happy." Uh, I saw a, maybe a year ago or so, I saw a Gary Vaynerchuk video online when he was, um, telling someone at one of his conferences, he was, you know, he, he was talking about a BMW, and he basically said to the guy in his, in, in, you know, in, in his inimitable way, which is wonderful, um, that, "I think you own a BMW because of what other people will think of you when you drive that BMW." And the guy literally, you know, in, in that clip, he just sort of sat with it, and he, he said, "Yeah, I do." I mean, it's what it symbolized is to, to people around

10. 54:06 – 1:13:12

    The Values Audit

    1. SPSpeaker54:06

       him. And again, I'm not having a go at anyone who, who might be doing that. You know, we all do things at, at, at times to get that, um, that validation or what we think is the validation from people around them. But I think what you're trying to get at is, how do we find our own identity? How do we live our own lives? So, so Jay, how do we do that? If we've spent a lifetime living someone else's life, how do we in our 30s or our 20s or our 40s or our 50s, how do we just decide, "Oh, I'm gonna start finding out what my life is"?

    2. JSJay Shetty54:42

       Yes, absolutely. And, and, and I love the tone you're sharing this in, Rangan, because my tone's the same. Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not coming at this from a point of view of, you know, we're wasting our lives, or I've got it figured out. Like, I, I- Don't wanna make this about you not getting your goals or not having pursuits or not wanting to become something, because I want to do all those things too, but it's about why you're doing it, and it's also about making sure they're truly motivated by your inner desire, right? Like, that's the point. It's like if you want to drive a BMW, drive a BMW because that's the car you love. Don't drive it because you think. Uh, if you want to be a doctor, become a doctor because you think that's how you're gonna serve humanity, not because you think people will be impressed. If you want to go to Harvard or Princeton or Oxford or Cambridge, go there because you really want to study how to solve the world's problems, not because you think it looks good on your resume, right? That's the point that we're going after. So thank you, Rangan, for, like, recentering that, that tonal piece, and I, I appreciate it. So where do we start? One of my favorite ways to start is looking at what we value, and values are a very intangible word, and so there's a very easy way to figure out what you value. There's two things you have to look at. You look at how you spend your money, the most painful thing you can poss- possibly do. Go through your bank statement and look at where your money is being spent. That is what you value. The other thing that we spend, just like we spend money, is how we spend our time. Those are the two most perfect ways to see what you currently value. Your value isn't what's in your head, isn't what's in your heart, it isn't what's in your mind. It's how you spend your money and how you spend your time. And so just to give you an overview, and I share this in the book, that research was done on how we spend our time, and the research showed that we spend 33 years in bed, right? 33 years of our life in bed. And seven years of that is spent trying to sleep, not even sleeping, right? We spend one year and four months exercising across our whole lives, these are, by the way. We spend more than three years on vacation, uh, and we spend a bunch of days trying to get ready, and we spend a bunch of time, you know, standing in lines and queues, and so much of our time just gets spent. So the question we have to ask ourselves is: Where am I currently spending my time, and where do I want to spend it? Now, studies also show that people-- Everyone has to go to work, so this isn't about what you do for work. People who had more meaningful, purposeful lives and were healthier, wealthier, and wise invested their time in education over entertainment. And Rangan, your, your audience is lucky because they get education and entertainment in one place, but, but that's the goal, right? Like, that's the goal, that you're creating an opportunity for people to find education. The, the smartest, the wealthiest, the most healthiest, the wisest people in the world were reading books, watching documentaries, taking courses, listening to podcasts, learning to better themselves, and so that's the first place to start. The second place, when we look at that value audit, is I want you to write down three things that you're currently pursuing in life. It might be a promotion. It might be a new home. Whatever it is. Whatever it is that you are currently pursuing. And then I want you to ask this question. Is that your desire and your dream, or is it coming from something outside of you? Is it coming from a pressure of a family member? Is it coming from an expectation because your friend just bought something? Where is that desire truly coming from? And the third and final question you want to ask yourself is, "Do I still want to pursue that, or do I want to change how I pursue it, or do I not want to pursue it at all?" And if you go through that three-step questioning process, you'll get to the truth of what you truly want to pursue and stop yourselves from building a sandcastle which the waves of time will eventually wash away.

    3. SPSpeaker58:53

       Yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty58:53

       And so that's what we get lost doing. We get lost building castles that we don't even want to live in.

    5. SPSpeaker58:59

       Yeah. It, it's so profound, and you know, I, I really think that there's something unique about the times in which we live now. There really is this dissatisfaction, this lack of contentment. You know, you put it so beautifully at the start of this conversation. I don't know if you've seen the documentary Minimalism-

    6. JSJay Shetty59:20

       I haven't actually, no

    7. SPSpeaker59:21

       ... um, or not, which, yeah, I think you'd absolutely love it. I, I really, really enjoy it. I've seen it a couple times. I've watched it with my kids again recently. But again, it's these two guys in their 30s who, you know, they've got success by society's definition. They've got the job. They're earning good money. You know, but there's a hole inside. There's a, a feeling of, "Is this all there is to life?" And so I, I really think you're, you're tapping on something that is, that is really out there at the moment, and really, if people can get their heads around this, I think it can transform their own lives, but also transform the lives of the people around them, which I think is really, really exciting. Now, you called it a value audit. Now, I thought that word was really interesting because I have been sort of... I, I had, I had sort of nearly three weeks off social media until two days ago. Like, I, I didn't post. I went off that. I made a thing of it, and I found that I-- I found it a lot easier to go inward in my life. It was just one thing to switch off a bit of noise for me. But I, I'm, I'm not saying everyone has to do this. It's just something I personally find useful, and I also like to... I think it's a nice example to set to people that you can do it, uh, if you want to. But what was really interesting is I've been doing a values exercise with myself. I've been trying to write down five core values that I want to live my life by, and it really struck me that a lot of people, and I probably include myself in this, have got an idea of what we think our values are But unless we actually go and audit the process of what are we spending our time and money doing, we have no idea if we really are living those values. So I really like the term audit, because it's not your perception of how you think you're actually spending your money or spending your time, it's the reality of it. And, and I think it's something that I haven't done it, and I think, I think I'm gonna do it. I think I'm gonna-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:01:21

       [laughs]

    9. SPSpeaker1:01:21

       ... actually see, uh, is it aligned with what you say you stand for? Are you actually spending time like that? So is this a common thing, do you think, for people, that they have a, there's a, there is a gap between their desired values and their actual values?

    10. JSJay Shetty1:01:37

        I genuinely believe, first of all, Rangan, thank you for sharing that too, and I, I genuinely believe that people are well-intentioned and want to do good in the world. I believe that. I believe that people have a good heart, they're smarter than we think they are, they want to do good in the world, and they want to put out good energy. But you're exactly right that that intention needs to be converted and transferred into real behavior, and this is where you'll find, you know, you'll hear a friend or someone you know say, "Oh, you know, I really value loyalty and, and I really don't like gossip," and then you find out that that person was gossiping about you. And how does that feel? It, it completely feels like someone's broken your trust. And so often the way we see ourselves or want to see ourselves is amplified compared to how we actually behave. So we'll spot something, and there's a, there's a beautiful story that I share in the book, and, and there's lots of these across the book, uh, but there's these, there's these old ancient Indian and Zen stories, and there's this story of the evil king that goes to meet a good king. So the evil king goes to the, the castle, the quarters of the good king, and the good king, being a good king, invites the evil king inside for some dinner. They sit down, the servers bring out the plates, the plates are placed in front of the evil king and the good king. And they're just about to eat, and as just about as they're about to eat, the evil king switches the plates. And, and the good king goes, "What's going on? Like, is that some ceremony in your time? Like, look, why are we doing this?" And the evil king goes, "Well, I don't know, you might have poisoned my food. You, you might be trying to kill me. You might have poisoned it." And the good king just bursts out laughing. He's just like, "Really?" [laughs] Like, "Come on. This, like, I've invited you over for dinner. Like, this is my team. Like, you know, whatever it is. Like, let, let's start eating right now." And just about as he's about to eat, the evil king swaps it back again, and the good king goes, "Well, now what then?" And he goes, "Well, I don't know, you might be double-bluffing me." And that night, the evil king doesn't eat. The good king happily eats his plate. The point is that so often we think we don't have some of the mistakes that we make, but we see them in everyone else. We see those mistakes in other people, so we'll say, "Oh, this person's not doing this right," or, "I don't like the way he or she talked to that person." But if we really do an audit on ourselves, we'll realize that we have a lot of those same challenges and feelings that we may think others have. And so for me, it's sometimes a really scary and daunting task to do that values audit, but it truly, truly is a, a beautiful process that we all need to go through to really realign our map and get our compass right and start moving in the right direction.

    11. SPSpeaker1:04:30

        I mean, is it the sort of thing that people do once, or is it the sort of thing that people should revisit? And I guess, you know, if I was to ask you, when was the last time you did that exercise on yourself?

    12. JSJay Shetty1:04:42

        Yeah, great question. So I'd say that you have to revisit like gardening. If you look at your garden outside, and I can see a bit, I can see a light-

    13. SPSpeaker1:04:50

        Me too

    14. JSJay Shetty1:04:50

        ... little glimpse of Rangan's garden.

    15. SPSpeaker1:04:52

        [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty1:04:53

        Uh, but if, if you have a garden, how often do you have to garden? Maybe you mow the lawn, I don't know, once a week, once a month. I don't know, you know-

    17. SPSpeaker1:05:00

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty1:05:00

        ... whatever, whatever you-

    19. SPSpeaker1:05:01

        Well, yeah, I'd say once a week probably.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:05:03

        Once a week.

    21. SPSpeaker1:05:03

        I li-

    22. JSJay Shetty1:05:03

        Once-

    23. SPSpeaker1:05:03

        I like a nice, you know, short-ish lawn. I don't like it when it gets too long, so.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:05:07

        [laughs] There you go, once a week. And so I'd say that you have to treat this exercise like gardening because when you do a values audit, what you're really doing is gardening your values, and what that means is you're pulling out the weeds and you're planting new seeds. That's really the activity that's happening here. You're planting seeds in your mind, values that are good values, that are gonna grow into fruits and trees and give shade to others and help other people. Or if you don't garden once a month, let's say Rangan leaves his... He doesn't bother for the last six months during COVID, he just lets it be there. What's gonna happen? That garden's gonna be full of weeds. It's gonna be full of-

    25. SPSpeaker1:05:47

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty1:05:47

        ... stuff that he doesn't want there, right? It, it might attract bugs or other things that are there that he doesn't want, and that's what happens with our values, that after a while our values start to attract dust. They start to attract, uh, being covered over by so many other desires. So I would say it's a regular habit. I'd say that I do a refining values and intention exercise on myself about three times a week. I used to do it every day, but probably about three times a week, and I'm not saying anyone has to do it that often. I do it that often because I feel I live a life that is constantly moving, constantly challenging, and I'm presented with a lot of options and opportunities that I never imagined I'd have. And so I have to really train my mind to, to focus on these value audits. But I also know that every year I spend two or three ye- two or three weeks and I go back to the monastery in India and I spend time in the ashram with monks. And so I feel this is both an activity that happens weekly or monthly, I'd say once a month. I, I'd say the best way is to treat it like your, um, accounts and your taxes. Look at it every month, look at your bank statement every month, and then once a year when you have to do your taxes and you're going through that tax return and getting it all right, you kind of do a deep dive on it. So I'd say if everyone-

    27. SPSpeaker1:07:01

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty1:07:01

        ... could spend Three days a year, five days a year going really deep, and then one hour a month, a couple of hours a month, that would be a great way to build it into your practice

    29. SPSpeaker1:07:11

        Yeah. Now, I just wanna contrast it with taxes and, uh, accounts-

    30. JSJay Shetty1:07:16

        [laughs]
11. 1:13:12 – 1:26:36

    Childhood Patterns, Communication and Finding Meaning in Pain

    1. SPSpeaker1:13:12

       How influential is our childhoods, um, and, you know, what can we do about it if we've spent a lifetime practicing that?

    2. JSJay Shetty1:13:23

       Yeah. What, what a great, what a great way of, uh, guiding this conversation into, because y- I think you're spot on that the, the words we use create all of our reality, right? We, we all experience that, we know that. And there's a few things that I wanna touch on here, actually. One is the understanding, there's a Harvard study that I refer to in my book, and it's called The Emotional List, or List of Emotions, but I call it emotional vocabulary. And what I've realized is that we all have a very limited emotional vocabulary. For example, if you ask someone how things are going, there's literally five words that we use more often than anything else. Okay, good, bad, fine, hmm. So someone goes, "How's your day going?" "Okay." "How's your week been?" "Good." "Is everything going well?" "Hmm." Right? It's [laughs] like literally like those are our responses.

    3. SPSpeaker1:14:21

       Yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:14:21

       And what this Harvard emotional vocabulary list does is that it shows you that inside every word that you say, there are so many more meanings. So let's take the word sad, for example. And what it does is it shows you other feelings of sadness that help you better pinpoint how you actually feel. So the question then is, do you feel sad or do you feel offended? Do you feel upset? Do you feel disappointed? Do you feel irritated? Do you feel, uh, like you've been let down? The challenge is that we don't diagnose how we feel effectively, therefore we can't articulate and communicate to the people we love effectively about how we feel, and therefore we don't get what we expect from others. And so we almost create... And Rangan, you probably see this all the time. Imagine someone tries to diagnose their health condition without seeing a doctor. It becomes really, really challenging. And the challenging with the mind is sometimes you have to diagnose your own feelings because you can't just walk in to a doctor's office and expect them to do it, because it's a little more intangible. So we have to get much better at understanding and articulating ourselves, and diagnosing our challenges and what we experience. But when you spoke about childhood there, I thought that was a really important point. Because literally, there are so many studies sh- that show that our belief in ourselves, our desire for love, our understanding of ourselves is formed in our childhood. So recently I recorded an episode about the psychological concept of the three attachment styles. Well, there are four, but the three prominent attachment styles that people experience in relationships. And they are avoidant, secure, and anxious. So all of us either have an avoidant relationship, uh, attachment style, we have a secure attachment style, or we have an anxious attachment style. And I'll explain what they are. If your parents were avoidant of you, if they didn't give you attention, if they didn't give you presence and intimacy, then you often will crave that from your partner. So what you want from your partner is exactly what you did or didn't receive from your parents. So sometimes you receive something from your parents and now you demand it from your partner, and sometimes you didn't receive something from your parents and you demand that from your partner. The secure attachment style is when your parents or one of your parents, or a f- father or mother figure in your life gave you substantial amounts of love so you feel secure, so you trust your partner naturally. And the third and final, it's anxious. That's when your parents were kinda there, kinda not there, kinda let you down, sometimes were there. You were confused about their love approach to you, and therefore now you have this anxiousness around your partner, and you're not sure whether they love you or not. Now notice how all of that comes from our conditioning at childhood. And so the first step we have to do is we have to be aware of this, right?

    5. SPSpeaker1:17:32

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:17:32

       No one's ever been taught about this in school. I saw so many negative pa- patterns that I'd adopted from my childhood that I was projecting into my relationship. And by the way, I don't blame my parents or anyone's parents for any of this. I think the point is n- no one ever knows how to be a parent and what they're doing, and everyone makes mistakes. So this isn't about questioning your parents or being bitter towards them. It's about developing the emotional skills your parents didn't have. And that, first of all, requires awareness. Are you even aware of what patterns you've adopted from your parents that you like or don't like? Do you behave in certain irrational ways? And when you think about it, you're like, "That's exactly how my dad used to talk to me," or, "That's exactly how my mom used to talk to me." I often talk about a positive thing, so I love surprises. I love surprises, like from, for gifts and birthdays and, and events. And the reason is my mom always surprised me with the toy I most wanted on my birthday every year growing up. So when I met my wife, without explaining this to her, I expected her to know that, and she would never surprise me. Because it wasn't in her parental background. So I used to feel on my birthdays when we first met that she didn't love me. And I know this sounds crazy, but it's literally true. It's like I literally felt like she didn't care about me. But that's because I never understood why I like surprises, where that came from, and I never communicated that to her.

    7. SPSpeaker1:19:02

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:19:03

       Does that make sense, Rangan?

    9. SPSpeaker1:19:05

       Hey, more sense than you w- you, [laughs] you would know, for sure. I mean, you know, I, I can think back to my own relationship- And think to all kinds of ways that actually ... And I, I recently spoke to Esther Perel on the show, and-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:19:19

        Yes

    11. SPSpeaker1:19:19

        ... you know, really sort of opened up about a lot of those things. Um, and I think the thing I'm, I'm sort of, I'm hearing from you telling that story, and when I think about my own relationship, it's that we often have expectations because we're used to things a certain way, so we think that's the norm. But of course, someone else has got their own idea of what is normal, and, you know, we, we- we've explored this ourselves, and I think, um, as your communication gets better, as you learn, as you said, to have a vocabulary around these things, as you learn to be able to articulate them, suddenly there's understanding on both sides, and a lot of that friction no longer arises because you can communicate. And I guess now your wife will go, "Oh, you know, Jay likes gifts."

    12. JSJay Shetty1:20:09

        [laughs]

    13. SPSpeaker1:20:10

        You know, even though that's not my thing, for example, it's kind of like, "Oh, maybe I'll get him a gi-," 'cause that's how he experiences love. You know?

    14. JSJay Shetty1:20:17

        My wife organized two surprise parties for me in the last two years [laughs] and, and she got me both times. Like, she, she organized these two incredible ... And, and that's what it is, Rangan, like, that's what it is, is that we're just ... You know, in every relationship, you have the ability to set the level of joy you expect and the level of pain you'll accept. But the problem is that we never tell the other person [laughs] what that expectation and what that acceptance level is, and we never communicate that, and we expect them to be mind readers and expect them to know. And that's really where all of relationships go wrong, with our parents, our children, our spouses, our partners, that there is no communication on what we expect and what we're willing to accept. And, and that creates so many issues that you then think you broke up over something big, when actually you broke up over words and definitions. Uh, one of the ones I like to talk about is the definition of love. When-- Think about the first time you said, "I love you," to someone, Rangan. Like, think about the first time you said it to someone, and everyone who's listening and watching, think about the first time you told someone you loved them. What did you mean? Did you mean, "I really like you"? Did you mean, "I hope we can spend the night together"? Did you mean, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you"? I'm guessing that you meant different things at different times. And now think about when someone says, "I love you," back to you. Have you ever asked them what they meant by that? Because chances are you projected your belief onto the word love even when someone said, "I love you," back. So if you said, "I love you," and you were thinking, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you," and that person said, "I love you," you projected that they were saying they want to spend the rest of their lives with you as well, but actually what they were saying was they just want to spend the night with you. And now all of a sudden you're in this complete, uh, misalignment of values. And, and we end up in those scenarios because families define words differently. People define words differently, and different words mean different things to different people at different times. And so you really have to understand how that person described even being clean and tidy and organized. Everyone has a different definition. Like, this, you know, my room may seem clean to some people, and my room may seem chaotic to some people because everyone has a different definition of what clean and chaotic is. What you can do right now is find meaning in what you do. Make what you do-

    15. SPSpeaker1:22:51

        Meaning

    16. JSJay Shetty1:22:51

        ... your pa- meaningful, passionate, and purposeful. You don't need to suddenly look to become an entrepreneur or start a side hustle or find some more time. Find meaning. And the way you find meaning, as you genuinely stop, press pause for a second, and go, "What am I living for?" Like, what am I living for right now? And if you're living for your child, and if you're living-

    17. SPSpeaker1:23:10

        Mm-hmm

    18. JSJay Shetty1:23:10

        ... to provide and put food on the table, that is a beautiful thing that we should celebrate more.

    19. SPSpeaker1:23:15

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:23:15

        And sometimes it takes us a moment to stop and celebrate that. And so I would say find meaning, 'cause you can't always find happiness. You can't always find positivity. But you can always find meaning-

    21. SPSpeaker1:23:24

        Mm

    22. JSJay Shetty1:23:25

        ... in that position. So I'll give you an example. Like, I lost someone really important to me, a mentor-

    23. SPSpeaker1:23:29

        Yes, that's ours

    24. JSJay Shetty1:23:29

        ... a few days back.

    25. SPSpeaker1:23:30

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:23:31

        I can't be positive about that. You can't be happy about that.

    27. SPSpeaker1:23:34

        You're sad.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:23:34

        Yeah.

    29. SPSpeaker1:23:35

        It's hurtful.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:23:35

        You feel sad. You, you feel loss. But guess what? I can find meaning in it.
12. 1:26:36 – 1:34:51

    The Hardest Year and Not Judging the Moment

    1. SPSpeaker1:26:36

       Now, what's been the most painful thing you've had to experience since... 'Cause I know leaving the monkhood-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:26:43

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker1:26:43

       ... was painful for you 'cause this was a mission of yours that you wanted to have for your whole life, and I think you were there for three and a half years. So what's been the most painful thing, I guess, in the last six or seven years-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:26:52

       Mm

    5. SPSpeaker1:26:52

       ... since that time that you've had to reflect back on, take notice of, pay attention to, and reevaluate?

    6. JSJay Shetty1:27:00

       That's a great question. I think for me, it was in 2016, I moved out to New York. So just let me paint a picture of 2016. I moved three jobs. I got married.

    7. SPSpeaker1:27:11

       Wow.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:27:12

       I moved country, and I s- just, just started a whole new life. Like, my life just transformed. So we went through all of that with my wife-

    9. SPSpeaker1:27:21

       Yes

    10. JSJay Shetty1:27:21

        ... in one year, and by the way, all of that was surprises. The job change was surprises.

    11. SPSpeaker1:27:25

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:27:25

        The country change was a surprise. The marriage was not a surprise. We planned that.

    13. SPSpeaker1:27:28

        Right, right, right, right, right.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:27:28

        But apart from everything else, everything was a surprise. Now, I said I like surprises-

    15. SPSpeaker1:27:33

        [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty1:27:33

        ... so I can roll with it, but my point is that's a lot of transition in a year.

    17. SPSpeaker1:27:37

        So much transition.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:27:38

        And I felt the burden of being in a new city where we had no family. We had no friends, and my wife, who loves being around her family, and no one understands just how close she is to them, I felt this burden on me that I had taken away her time with her family.

    19. SPSpeaker1:27:57

        Mm.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:27:57

        And now she was alone, so I was going out to work, and she'd be crying at home.

    21. SPSpeaker1:28:01

        Mm.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:28:02

        And I was thinking, "She's got no friends. She's got no support." And I know you can relate to this-

    23. SPSpeaker1:28:05

        Yes

    24. JSJay Shetty1:28:05

        ... with moving and relationships-

    25. SPSpeaker1:28:06

        It's a lot, man

    26. JSJay Shetty1:28:06

        ... and so much going on, and so it's like I'm dealing with that, and guess what? Six months later, I have to leave and move on and work on a new career to build everything myself, and then I'm four months away from being broke. And so on top of all of this, I've now got four months away from being broke. I've got enough money, money saved for four months to pay for rent and groceries, and that's it.

    27. SPSpeaker1:28:26

        In New York City, yeah. [laughs]

    28. JSJay Shetty1:28:27

        In New York City, and that's it. And guess what? Even on top of that, I've got 30 days before my visa runs out, and I'm kicked out of the country. So I can't even live here anymore. So not only have I just got married, moved job three times, changed career again, had to move into apartment-

    29. SPSpeaker1:28:41

        No money

    30. JSJay Shetty1:28:41

        ... four months of being broke, and I might get kicked out in 30 days, and my renewal for my visa costs $15,000.
13. 1:34:51 – 1:43:15

    Protect Your Purpose and Find It Over Time

    1. SPSpeaker1:34:51

       What's been the biggest lesson in the last 12 months for you?

    2. JSJay Shetty1:34:55

       Ooh.

    3. SPSpeaker1:34:55

       'Cause you've learned s- you've created so much in the last 12 months. You've done so many things. What's been the biggest lesson for you in your life?

    4. JSJay Shetty1:35:02

       Oh, that's a big question.

    5. SPSpeaker1:35:03

       [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty1:35:04

       I think I'd have to say that it's a... And I was saying it to a friend on the phone this morning when I was on the way to you.

    7. SPSpeaker1:35:09

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:35:10

       And I was just, I was just sharing it with him because he was having a moment in recognizing this. There's a wonderful verse in the Manu Smriti, which I talk about in Think Like a Monk. It's a monk book, and in the verse it says, "When you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you."

    9. SPSpeaker1:35:26

       [sighs]

    10. JSJay Shetty1:35:27

        Now, I wanna, I wanna unpack that. What I mean by that is your purpose is like a rare jewel and a rare gemstone, and imagine you were walking around with the most expensive diamond or jewel in the world. How would you protect it?

    11. SPSpeaker1:35:45

        You wouldn't just, like-

    12. JSJay Shetty1:35:46

        You wouldn't just wa-

    13. SPSpeaker1:35:46

        ... wave it out. Yeah. [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty1:35:47

        Yeah. You wouldn't just wear it on your chest.

    15. SPSpeaker1:35:49

        Like this.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:35:49

        Like a baby.

    17. SPSpeaker1:35:50

        Holding it.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:35:50

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker1:35:51

        Putting a pillow around it or a blanket.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:35:52

        [laughs]

    21. SPSpeaker1:35:52

        You'd be like, yeah, protect it.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:35:54

        You'd protect it, and so your purpose is like that, and guess what?

    23. SPSpeaker1:35:57

        Wow.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:35:57

        People are gonna tell you every day that that jewel is not worth anything. They're gonna tell you that that jewel is actually valueless.

    25. SPSpeaker1:36:06

        Wow.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:36:06

        It doesn't have any impact on your life. They're gonna try and take away that value. They're gonna tell you that there's another jewel out there that you need to have more value, and what ends up happening is you don't... I love the word. Look at the wording. Protect your purpose. You have to protect it, so what happens, as your success grows, you get more opportunities-

    27. SPSpeaker1:36:25

        Mm

    28. JSJay Shetty1:36:25

        ... more ideas, more things coming your way.

    29. SPSpeaker1:36:27

        Temptations.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:36:28

        Temptations, but they can all take you away from your purpose.
14. 1:43:15 – 1:50:26

    Media Beliefs, Love Expectations and the Diamond Ring

    1. JSJay Shetty1:43:15

       it. It was this understanding that I had believed- That the romance that I saw in the movies was what romance and love was about. Because again, how many of us are, our beliefs are set by movies, media, and music? So many of our beliefs and what we expect in a relationship are based on a false show. And if you think about it, movies always end with happily ever after, where the wedding just happened. So it's almost like you see nothing after the wedding. And the funny thing is that after the wedding is exactly what life is about, [laughs] like that's where life actually starts. Like this, life didn't start when you started dating. But movies end with happily ever after, and they don't tell the story. And so we all have this honeymoon happily ever after version of love, and I had that too. So my first date with my wife, I thought, "Oh, you know, she'll wanna go to a fancy restaurant. You know, she'll probably want to dress up. She'll want to do this," because that's what I thought from nowhere, like she'd given me no indication of that. And so again, no checking of expectation, no checking of communication, just complete me on autopilot. And so I booked, I got this reservation at this fancy restaurant, and I'll never forget the name. It's called La Canda Locatelli, and it's like this really posh restaurant in London. It's like David Beckham goes there and that kind of thing.

    2. SPSpeaker1:44:35

       [laughs]

    3. JSJay Shetty1:44:35

       And so I'd saved up to take my wife to this restaurant, and she-- it was the worst date we've ever been on.

    4. SPSpeaker1:44:42

       [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty1:44:42

       And it was our first date, and she was just like, "You could have walked me down Tesco's, like the food aisle at Tesco's, and I would have been happier." She loves, she loves, um, she loves going shopping for food. So any sort of Tesco's or Whole Foods or Waitrose or whatever that, she, she loves it. And so, and it was so interesting to me to think, I was like, "Well, I put all this effort in," and that's what happens. You start thinking, your ego goes, "Well, you put all this effort in. She doesn't appreciate it." And actually realize, no, it's just, you know, me speaking to her in a language she doesn't understand. And, and this part's the biggest part about how media, and I've got to share this story. So Rangan, do you remember how much-- Do you remember any guidance on how much you spent on your engagement ring? Because this is really like profound for me. But do you remember anything when you proposed to your wife?

    6. SPSpeaker1:45:25

       Do you know what? Yeah, I d- You know what? I can't remember an exact amount, but I, I remember thinking, "Oh, how much are you meant to?"

    7. JSJay Shetty1:45:32

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:45:32

       And I thought, "Really? That much?" That's the... [laughs] Like I can't remember what happened in the end, but I-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:45:37

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker1:45:38

        Yeah, but, but I know that's out there, isn't it?

    11. JSJay Shetty1:45:39

        Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker1:45:39

        There's a, there's a rule by society on what you should do.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:45:43

        Yeah. So I-- So, so that was the thing. So I remember wanting to propose to my now wife, and I remember speaking to a bunch of my guy mates who were proposed or were married, and they all said, "You spend two months' salary on your engagement ring." And I was like, "That sounds like a lot." I had the same reaction as you.

    14. SPSpeaker1:45:59

        [laughs]

    15. JSJay Shetty1:46:00

        And I was like, "Okay, that's what you have to spend." So I remember spending two months' salary on my engagement ring for my wife. I, I didn't make a ton at the time, and I worked, uh, in a corporate job and so I did that. And then when I started sharing more ideas and stuff, I really started looking into that. And this is the craziest thing. I found a De Beers commercial in-- from 1991, and in that commercial, it's a black-and-white commercial, I don't know why, but it was chosen to be black and white, and in that commercial, a man proposes to a woman with a diamond engagement ring. It's a De Beers commercial. And at the end of it, it says this. Catch this. This is what it says. It says, "The diamond engagement ring. How else could two months' salary last forever?" And I was sitting there going, "Are you kidding me?" That that was literally the tagline in a commercial, and so many men took it seriously that by the time I proposed, that was 1991, I proposed in 2014. And so it's like from 1991 to 2014, it became a rule when actually it was just a tagline in an advert, just showing you the power of media's ability to implant an in... And really that's Inception at its best. If you've never seen the movie Inception, check it out.

    16. SPSpeaker1:47:23

        Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:47:23

        But that is literally Inception at its best, that that idea was planted in our mind in 1991, and in 2014, I'm still operating by that idea, and I don't even know where it's come from. That's the power of an idea, and, and that's why it's so important that we plant powerful ideas into our mind that are useful to us.

    18. SPSpeaker1:47:42

        A- and that's the, the, the value and, and how powerful, um, stories are and narrative, even stories that we tell ourselves. So that then starts off as maybe the idea of one advertising executive in a company somewhere who gets-- is getting paid to do this commercial, does it, and then it becomes a reality for millions of people around the world who are then are stressed out trying to think, "Oh, if I'm gonna be a real man, I have to spend two months' salary on this ring."

    19. JSJay Shetty1:48:11

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker1:48:12

        And it's, it's, it goes back to everything you're talking about. It's about identity, it's about stories, it's about how can we start creating the stories that are gonna start to help us n- you know, gonna nourish us and feed us rather than the ones that are gonna keep us trapped and, and imprisoned. And I think there's two things I think your book really-- Like when I think about it big picture, what it offers, I mean, there's so many things, but the two themes I really think about are, one, awareness. I think every single chapter people are gonna start thinking, and it's just start gonna-- Because you, you shared so many lovely stories as well in it, which I, I think really brings it to life. People are gonna start to see their own life in them, and I think you're gonna help bring awareness to people. And of course, without awareness, there can be no change. Awareness is that first step. Um, and often awareness is all you need I find sometimes. And of course, there are lots of practices you can do to help.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:49:09

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:49:09

        But sometimes just being aware means, "Oh, I can change that now 'cause I know where that's coming from."

    23. JSJay Shetty1:49:14

        Totally.

    24. SPSpeaker1:49:14

        But the other thing I think your book offers people is freedom because you, you get true- Inner peace and mental freedom to live the life that you want to, not the life that other people, um, have set out for you, or an advertising exec has sort of implanted as an idea. And then, you know, if we, we sort of start to go in some of these practical tools, you mentioned some exercises already.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:49:40

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SPSpeaker1:49:40

        You mentioned gratitude, and gratitude has come up, uh, on the show before. But what I loved about your take on it was, was if I remember the chapter right, that you said, "Gratitude is a daily practice. That's the easy part. I want you to be grateful in every aspect of your life." And I love that, and I've been sitting with that idea for the last week or so. I wonder if you could expand on it, Jay.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:50:04

        Yeah, beautiful. I'm, I'm really glad, um, you're asking me about gratitude. Before we do that, though, you sparked another thought. Do you mind if I kind of go back-

    28. SPSpeaker1:50:12

        I-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:50:12

        If you're okay with it

    30. SPSpeaker1:50:13

        Go, go where you wanna go, man
15. 1:50:26 – 2:06:50

    Job Crafting and Practicing Specific Gratitude

    1. JSJay Shetty1:50:26

       when, when you were talking about the stories we tell ourselves, I think that's so important because there's a, there's a great study that I talk about in the book by Amy Wrzesniewski from the Yale, uh, University. And what they found is that they tried to find a career that they felt people may find not sharing a positive story around. And they found that hospital cleaners or hospital workers potentially have one of the toughest jobs. And Rangan, you're a doctor, and, you know, I'm sure you've seen people having to do that work, and it's a tough job. And so they asked hospital workers how they define their jobs, and the majority of them defined it as low skilled, defined it as, um, you know, insignificant, defined it as just a way to pay the bills, and that their job wasn't useful or their job wasn't important, and their role was basically described like the personnel manual. But then they asked another set of hospital workers, the same people who do the same jobs, different people who did the same jobs, and they said, "How do you feel about your jobs?" And these people had completely different views. They felt they were healers. They felt they were caretakers. They felt that they were able to transform the energy of the actual hospital. They felt that they were carers for the people there. And what they found is that these same people-- sorry, different people who did the same job were telling themselves a different story, and therefore, they saw their role as integral to the healing of the patient. And because they saw their role as integral to the healing of the patient, they found the work that they did to be extremely meaningful. And that's crazy to think about it, that different people doing the same job could say different things about the same work. They're doing the same exact thing daily, but someone thinks it's meaningless, and the other thinks it's so meaningful. And this was a term by Yale that was called the-- called, it was called job crafting, the ability to assign meaning where you see it, and all of a sudden, your life becomes meaningful. So if you're sitting in a job right now that you hate, or if you've got a boss that you really don't like, or if you're in a relationship that you don't wanna be in, if you can't leave for whatever reason right now because of COVID or lockdown or whatever it is, financial difficulties, if you can't leave and you really want to, one of the things I recommend you do is called job crafting from the Yale School of Management. You start asking yourself, "Where can I find meaning in this? What can I learn? What can I adopt? What is this trying to teach me?" And that's actually where gratitude can be applied to every place because you start going, "There is some value in this." I remember when I wanted to leave my corporate job, and I wanted to live my passion and do what I do today, but I'm so grateful I was at my corporate job because I learned so much there that is so useful to me now. And we find it very easy to be grateful when things are going our way, but we find it very difficult to be grateful when things are not going our way. But what we have to learn to realize, which is a really hard lesson to realize, is that things are always going your way if you're moving in the right direction. Things are not gonna always look like they're going your way, and they could still be going your way. We've all seen curses turn into gifts and gifts turn into curses. But the problem is, Rangan, and this is the challenge, we have a projector up here of what we want life to look like, and then we have the reality of what life actually looks like. So there's this big discrepancy. And so sometimes you're actually going in the right direction, but because it doesn't look like your picture and your image of what it should look like, you work less, you become lazier, you become complacent, you try less harder because you're like, "This doesn't look like the right direction." But you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it, if you keep going, if you keep pushing, if you keep learning. And that's what it means to be grateful in all areas of your life, is trying to, even in the toughest moment, even in a challenging situation, not gratitude like, "Oh, I'm so thankful to you for causing me the pain." That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is saying to yourself, "Where is there meaning in this? Where is the lesson in this so I don't repeat this again?" If I can be grateful in this challenging situation, and I can experience gratitude at all times, then I'm always going to be coming at things from a positive space and positive energy.

    2. SPSpeaker1:54:57

       Yeah. So powerful, Jay. Um, would you recommend people start off with a particular daily practice as a way of getting good and developing the skill before they can start applying it, let's say, to, you know, aspects of their life that maybe aren't going as well as they want to, where they have to reframe things? I mean, what has been your experience in trying to teach people about gratitude and how they should start that process?

    3. JSJay Shetty1:55:24

       Yeah. So you always develop your muscles in the training center and in the gym. You don't go out and develop your muscles on game day, right? Like, no one gets thrown out-

    4. SPSpeaker1:55:31

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:55:31

       ... onto the pitch and says, "Oh, yeah, go and play a World Cup final, and you'll figure out how strong you are." You would never do that. You, you train in the gym, you prepare, you get ready, and then you go. You don't go, "I wanna learn how to run. Maybe I should run in the marathon next year," right? You don't- that's not how it work. And so Rangan's absolutely right, that it starts in small bouts. So I wanna get more practical because me and Rangan have spoken about a lot of concepts today. Uh, when we talk about practicing thankfulness or gratitude, and I talk about four habits in the book, one of them, one of the key daily habits or daily practices is thankfulness. Now, thankfulness isn't just about feeling. Thankfulness isn't just about thinking. It's actually about expressing. So when Rangan messaged me a few weeks back, and he told me that he'd been reading my book, he- I sent him an early copy because he was gonna interview me on the podcast, and he sent me that message. I was, I was so grateful to him, like genuinely, because he was expressing gratitude to me, and that's the amazing thing. Instead of just feeling gratitude, let's say Rangan felt it, but he didn't say it to me. If he didn't say it to me, he would have not had the experience, A, of sharing it, B, of receiving my gratitude back to him, and our relationship deepening based on that simple message he sent me. And so gratitude becomes more powerful when you express it daily. So every day ask yourself, who's a person that you wanna express gratitude to, and go and tell them? Secondly, what's a place that you're grateful for? And spend more time in that place. And what's a project that you're grateful for in your life? And if you write these down every single day before you go to bed, who's a person I'm grateful for and why? What's a place that I'm grateful for and why? And right now it may not be a place you can go to. It may be a place that you visited, and you're so grateful you got to go there before COVID. And the third thing is-

    6. SPSpeaker1:57:16

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:57:16

       ... a project in your life. And so when you express gratitude, make sure that it's specific. So I'll give you an example. Let's say Rangan throws a party with his wife this weekend at their home, and their friends come over. And one of his friends... Uh, Rangan, give me two friends' names in your life, and we'll pick on them for a bit.

    8. SPSpeaker1:57:35

       Uh, okay. Uh [laughs] I'll say Jeremy-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:57:38

       Jeremy

    10. SPSpeaker1:57:38

        ... 'cause I know he'll be, I know he'll be listening.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:57:40

        Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker1:57:40

        Um, uh, you know what? I'll go Gareth.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:57:43

        Okay.

    14. SPSpeaker1:57:44

        My buddy who-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:57:44

        Gareth and Jeremy

    16. SPSpeaker1:57:44

        ... who's really who... Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:57:45

        Gareth. So let's say Gareth and Jeremy, and again, uh, I'm, I'm just gonna add a disclaimer. None of this reflects Gareth and Jeremy in real life.

    18. SPSpeaker1:57:52

        [laughs]

    19. JSJay Shetty1:57:52

        Uh, but let's say Gareth and Jeremy come to this party that, uh, Rangan and his wife throw, and it's just, um, you know, just a gathering to get people together. The next morning, Rangan wakes up. He doesn't look at his first thing in the morning, his phone. That's not what Rangan does. Rangan looks at his phone about three hours later, uh, after he's exercised, meditated, spent time with his kids, and then he looks at his phone, and he sees these two messages from Gareth and Jeremy. Gareth, uh, sorry about this, but here we go. So Gareth has messaged him saying, "Thanks, mate. It was great." Right? That was Gareth's message. And Jeremy's message was, "Rangan, thank you so much. Like, you and your wife just threw an amazing party, and I loved all the games we played. Your kids are adorable, and oh, by the way, you know, you know that food? How did, how did you both make that? The food was amazing. Thank you so much. Uh, thank you for, uh, letting us have this moment together." So those are two messages. A or B, which one do you think causes Rangan more joy? Now, Rangan's-

    20. SPSpeaker1:58:51

        Yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty1:58:51

        ... a grateful person, so he'll be grateful to both of them, but he's more likely, and honestly all of us are, going to be more grateful to the, to Jeremy in that scenario because he's gone into more depth and been specific about what he actually liked and learned. And because of that, he's now going to attract more love and gratitude back from Rangan as well. So that's why expressing gratitude is actually the key, and if we can express gratitude to people, places, and projects, we start to develop more gratitude in our life, and that's something we can do daily. And it can be an email, it can be a voice note, it can be a text. It could be a video call, but it can be as simple as just a text message. But specific gratitude is scientifically shown to be better for you and better for the other person.

    22. SPSpeaker1:59:36

        Yeah. I mean, Jay, thanks so much for sharing that because, you know, gratitude gets spoken about a lot these days, but I think that specificity piece, I think that example beautifully demonstrates just-- I can feel it, the difference. You know, you can, you can feel it viscerally as you, as you hear it. It, it does something different. And I remember so clearly, I think I left you a voi- uh, a WhatsApp voice message because I was literally, I was thinking, "Oh, he's probably asleep now, but he won't have his phone on at night." You know, there's that bit of insecurity at first.

    23. JSJay Shetty2:00:09

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker2:00:09

        And I thought, "No, just express the damn gratitude," you know? You, you know, I think the, the Rangan of a few years ago possibly wouldn't have done it out of insecurity, or will this be taken the right way or the wrong way, or whatever. But the, the-- I would say the person I am today, having done a lot of the work and having practiced a lot of these tools, um, you know, there is so-- if-- not only did, um, as you were sharing, does it feel good for you to get it, but it feels nice to share it. I s- I'm, I'm doing a lot of voice notes these days.

    25. JSJay Shetty2:00:40

        [laughs]

    26. SPSpeaker2:00:41

        I'm finding I'm going to WhatsApp, pressing the, the mic. In fact, someone told me during lockdown that you can actually press it and flip it up. Uh-

    27. JSJay Shetty2:00:48

        Oh

    28. SPSpeaker2:00:48

        ... which is my friend Jody. Thanks, Jody. I didn't know you could do that. He said you can talk without actually holding it.

    29. JSJay Shetty2:00:52

        I didn't know that either.

    30. SPSpeaker2:00:53

        But-
16. 2:06:50 – 2:16:53

    Happiness Built on Others and Social Media Metrics

    1. SPSpeaker2:06:50

       But Jay, when you were m- when you were just talking there about the insecurity that some people may feel when trying to express gratitude, um, I, I was really, I was struck by something I wrote down from your book, and I can't remember which chapter it's in, but you say, "It's impossible to build one's own happiness on the unhappiness of others."

    2. JSJay Shetty2:07:10

       Yeah. So I'm quoting Daisaku Ikeda, who's a Buddhist philosopher-

    3. SPSpeaker2:07:15

       Yeah

    4. JSJay Shetty2:07:15

       ... who says that statement. I belie- I can't remember which chap- I think I start the negativity chapter with that quote. So it's Daisaku Ikeda, a Buddhist philosopher, and he says exactly that, that you can't- Build your own happiness on the unhappiness of others. And I think what that truly means is we often believe that we can only be superior if someone else is inferior. So we feel better when we say, "Oh, you know that pers- did you know that couple's getting a divorce? Oh, did you know their marriage only lasted, like, two years?" And what you're really saying is, "Well, we've, we've somehow managed to stay together for eight years. Like, we've done pretty all right," right? And you're, you're kind of gossiping about them. Or another way it goes is like, "Oh, did you hear about him? He's, he's totally messed it up. Like, he's getting fired next week." And all you're doing is you're making someone feel inferior to make yourself feel superior. That doesn't create happiness. It creates more uncertain ground because now you're constantly looking for someone else to feel inferior for you to feel superior. And guess what? God forbid, someone's now outperforming you, you're now feeling inferior, and you're feeling all the insecurity of what you felt about someone else. So it's never a stable ground, right? I believe it's in the Bible, but, you know, you c- you can't ... I think it's that you can't build your home on shifting sands, but in the same way, you can't build a stable identity of yourself on the gossip or the mistakes of others.

    5. SPSpeaker2:08:48

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty2:08:48

       And so you've gotta be really careful about not building a ground for yourself. Imagine you- the ground you're standing on is built on blocks of superiority, bricks of gossip, and mud and cement of criticism. That's not gonna hold.

    7. SPSpeaker2:09:08

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty2:09:08

       And so you don't want to create your joy because other people are struggling or suffering. You want to create your joy because you know how to deal with struggle and suffering.

    9. SPSpeaker2:09:18

       Yeah. So, so, so beautifully explained. And, and I think we often write the quotes down that really mean a lot to us, and I certainly feel for me, that was something I spent a lot of my adult life really, uh, trying to come to terms with and, and realizing, you know, I used to be so competitive. You know, I ... You know, if I won a game of snooker or table tennis or ... You know, it would, it would literally elevate me. And if I lost, man, I would be down in the dumps. Like, it would ... And I've really explored this and I, and, you know, given the time we've got left, I sort of p- probably can't go down this rabbit hole, but, you know, I, I, I know one component is that, as a kid, um, you know, how I did at school, you know. And, and, and again, I don't know if this is the same in your household. I know a lot of immigrant families have this sort of mentality. If you, you know, if you got a 98%, it's like, "Well, why was it not 100%?"

    10. JSJay Shetty2:10:12

        Yeah, for sure. [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker2:10:12

        Um, you know, you were like, "Oh, what, you came second in that test. Why, what happened? Who was first? Why didn't you come first?"

    12. JSJay Shetty2:10:18

        Yes.

    13. SPSpeaker2:10:19

        And, you know, I actually think whilst I, um ... And my mom will say, 'cause I've spoken to her about this recently. She said, "Well, I knew you were capable, so I wanted you to be the best you could." And okay, and I think she was doing the best she could. I would say for me, the way I interpreted it was that I can only be loved, I can only be-

    14. JSJay Shetty2:10:40

        Mm

    15. SPSpeaker2:10:40

        ... um, feel good about myself when I'm number one.

    16. JSJay Shetty2:10:44

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SPSpeaker2:10:44

        And really, I'd say over the last sort of five years, that's pretty much almost gone from me now. I, I, I'm pretty j- I'm pretty okay with it now. Like, I don't feel ... And I think that, that is ... I, I think it's such an important quote that you've shared because I sort of think now, uh, and we should probably talk about social media a bit because, you know, you're, you're, you're pretty much the king of social media-

    18. JSJay Shetty2:11:05

        [laughs]

    19. SPSpeaker2:11:05

        ... uh, in, in so many ways, and I think I'd love to know some of your thoughts on social media. Um, but with respect to that quote, I think one of the negatives, and there've no doubt been a lot of positives to social media, um, you know, you have shared such amazing wisdom in your videos to millions of people around the world, which potentially may not have happened without social media, right? So it's not about saying it's either good or bad, but I do think for some people it can magnify those insecurities. So if you feel that you can build your happiness, uh, on the unhappiness of others, people can get very focused on follower counts and likes. Um, and I certainly know in the, in the UK medic world, uh, there's a lot of medics feel a pressure to be building up their profiles and have contacted me saying, "You know, I'm not sure what to do," and you think, wow, it's causing such discontentment. And it's just a metric that in so many levels, I'm not, I'm not gonna say it's meaningless. Of course it's not meaningless. But if you're trying to do it because how you'll be perceived by others, going back to what we've been talking about throughout this conversation, what are you posting for? What are you hoping to achieve by posting? Is it in service? Is it to help people, or is it to elevate yourself?

    20. JSJay Shetty2:12:30

        Yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker2:12:31

        You know, I don't know, maybe you can untangle that some-

    22. JSJay Shetty2:12:34

        Yeah

    23. SPSpeaker2:12:34

        ... uh, for us, because I'm sure some people listening will, will be thinking that.

    24. JSJay Shetty2:12:38

        Yeah. There's, there's, there's very few creators of content on social media that started out with a follower count in mind. So me included, uh, a lot of my peers in this space, a lot of people that I know that are extremely successful on different platforms, none of them started, at least the ones that I know, none of them started to get followers. They all started because they had something to share, whatever that was, whether it was comedy, whether it's wisdom, whether it was a workout plan, a fitness plan, whatever it was, like, they had something that they did that they were passionate about, they wanted to share. And I can only speak to myself fully, but when I started, I thought I was gonna have a full-time corporate job, and I was gonna make videos on the evenings and weekends to share a message. That's genuinely all I believed. And I, it, after my first month, I had about 1,000 subscribers on YouTube, about four videos I'd made on YouTube. I had about 1,000 people that had subscribed to my channel, and most of my friends were like, "Great, Jay, that's where it's gonna end. Like, congrats. Well done. Like, you got 1,000 subscribers. You kind of just crept in there in 30 days. Like, well done. That's cool. Like, how far is this gonna go?" And that's really the reality of what it felt like. And the interesting thing is the question was never, how do I get more followers? The question was always, how do I make more content that impacts people? Because, and, and that's the question with everything. It's like, if you make more content that genuinely impacts people, you'll get more followers. If you build a business that serves more people, you'll make more money. If you help a lot of people through your talents and gifts, you will be famous and known for it. Like it's, it's a byproduct of-

    25. SPSpeaker2:14:17

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty2:14:17

        ... doing something properly, and that's why I love the definition that Peter Diamandis gives that we should redefine the word billionaire to be someone who impacts the lives of a billion people. Why is Jeff Bezos the richest man in the world? Because he's created a product that we all say we want, and that it solves a problem that we really need. And so if you want to get followers, don't look at the number. Ask yourself, are you really creating the value that's going to help people? And they're going to naturally want to follow you, and, and they're going to want to love your work and share it because to me, that's the worthwhile pursuit in life. Because when you do that work, that work is humbling. When you do that creativity, that's the part that makes you grateful for the success that you get because you go, "Wow," like, "people actually care about what I have to say." But if you're just obsessed about numbers and metrics without being obsessed by the content, the creation, and the, the service, then, then you'll never be satisfied because there'll always be someone better than you. So for me, when I set out to write this book, so many people were like, "Oh, so do you, do you want this book to be a bestseller?" And I said, "I want this book to be a bestseller, of course I do. But I'm not going to focus on it being a bestseller. I'm going to focus on writing the best book in the world that I can possibly write given the skills that I have." And that's why when I talk about dharma in the book, which is helping everyone find their purpose, dharma is broken down. Dharma means purpose loosely, uh, and has many different meanings, but one of them is nature and purpose, your true nature. And the three aspects that I'll share now for the, and there's more depth in the book, the three aspects of dharma are your passion, your skills, and your compassion. That's what it means. When you have your passion plus your skills plus your compassion, that equals purpose. But for most of us, if we're just looking at numbers and metrics and data, I mean, you'll be dissatisfied there. And, and I'm saying that as someone who really values numbers. I understand the value of followers, social media. I get the value of all those things, and I'm highly strategic. But I'll be completely honest with you, I'm not focused on the number. I'm focused on making content and, and that's the message, that if we're focused on really creating value in the world, all of the other stuff will come naturally. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.

    27. SPSpeaker2:16:41

        There's no such thing as a bad experience.

    28. JSJay Shetty2:16:44

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SPSpeaker2:16:45

        There's experiences you don't like-

    30. JSJay Shetty2:16:46

        And they hurt

Episode duration: 2:16:53