By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.
Jay Shetty Podcast“If You Hear It, RUN! - The 1 Phrase Narcissists Use To CONTROL You" | Dr. Ramani
Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 5:42
Narcissism vs. Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Jay Shetty asks Dr. Ramani to clarify the terms. She explains that narcissism is a personality style while NPD is a clinical diagnosis, and that a diagnosis does not mean more severe narcissism. She argues the public conversation should just say "narcissism."
- •Narcissism is a maladaptive personality style; NPD is a diagnosis made by a licensed clinician
- •Most people with narcissistic patterns are never seen by a practitioner
- •A person with NPD is not necessarily more severe than an undiagnosed person
- •Online shaming of people who name these patterns adds pain for hurt partners
- •Dr. Ramani says that if she ran the world she would get rid of the diagnosis
- 5:42 – 9:29
Why Narcissism Seems Everywhere Now
Jay asks why awareness of narcissists has surged culturally. Dr. Ramani says narcissism has always existed and shaped history, but we lacked a name and platforms. The book's message is that these relationships follow a consistent pattern and "it's not you."
- •Narcissistic people have always existed and often drive innovation
- •Psychology is a young field, so there was no name for the pattern
- •Past cultures were more authoritarian and patriarchal, with a kind of universal acceptance of difficult people
- •The book offers a construct so people stop blaming themselves
- 9:29 – 11:53
How Not to Attract a Narcissist
Asked whether one can stop attracting narcissists, Dr. Ramani says people are attracted because they are attractive, not because of low self-esteem. Narcissistic people seek supply such as looks, status and praise, and the key is knowing how to get off the carousel early.
- •People who attract narcissists are often self-possessed with strong self-esteem
- •Narcissistic people seek supply: physical attractiveness, status, praise
- •Being a nice, praising person can itself be attractive to them
- •The key is knowing how to get off the carousel before it speeds up
- 11:53 – 18:11
The Pattern of a Narcissistic Relationship
Dr. Ramani uses a volcano metaphor for shame and rage, then walks through the relationship arc. It runs from love bombing to a shifting good-to-bad ratio that creates a trauma bond, then discard and hoovering.
- •The volcano: shame and insecurity are plugged by entitlement and grandiosity, and rage spills out when the lid slips
- •Behaviors include gaslighting, future faking, blame shifting, deceit and neglect
- •Love bombing includes intense attention that can later be used against the partner
- •The ratio of good to bad shrinks over time, creating the trauma bond
- •Discard and hoovering can follow if either person leaves
- 18:11 – 21:42
Why People Justify and Stay
Jay asks what excuses keep people stuck. Dr. Ramani roots it in the human need for attachment, especially in childhood, and explains how justifications, cognitive dissonance and homeostasis keep people in place. The more empathic people tend to get stuck.
- •Attachment is a primal need; a child must hold an unattuned parent in esteem and devalue themselves
- •Justifications come easily and are reinforced by the world
- •Empathic people are more vulnerable to trauma bonding
- •Cognitive dissonance and the preference for the familiar maintain the status quo
- •The longer someone stays, the more they abandon themselves
- 21:42 – 26:22
The Psychological Impact of Narcissistic Abuse
Jay asks what is going on psychologically for survivors. Dr. Ramani describes rumination, hypervigilance, mild dissociation and sleep problems, noting most survivors do not develop clinical depression. She also describes empathy as sometimes a fawn-type trauma response and says healing is not an amputation.
- •Common effects include rumination, self-doubt, hypervigilance, social anxiety and sleep problems
- •It is a normative reaction rather than a mental illness
- •Empathy can function as a trauma or fawn response
- •Healing aims to keep the empathy, remove the shame and build discernment
- 26:22 – 30:42
Empathy Without Forgiveness
Dr. Ramani pushes back on the idea that empathizing with a narcissistic person is foolish, saying one can disengage and still empathize. She argues forgiveness is not necessary for healing and cites research that repeatedly forgiving a repeat perpetrator harms the forgiver. She describes a multiple truths exercise.
- •One can disengage from someone and still empathize with them
- •Research suggests repeatedly forgiving a repeat perpetrator lowers wellbeing
- •Dr. Ramani says she empathizes with people who harmed her but does not forgive them and heals just fine
- •The multiple truths exercise has survivors write all their conflicting feelings
- •Not forgiving is not a lack of empathy
- 30:42 – 35:27
Radical Acceptance and Psychological Flexibility
Jay asks Dr. Ramani to define radical acceptance. She describes it as accepting that the person will not change enough to make the relationship healthy. She contrasts the rigidity of narcissism with flexibility as the core of mental health, and describes the penny-drop moment.
- •Radical acceptance means absolutely accepting the behavior will not change, and basing decisions on that
- •It does not mean agreeing with the behavior or that it stops hurting
- •Mental health is flexibility, like a tree that bends in the wind
- •Narcissism is a rigid style with little self-awareness and little motivation to change
- •Clients often need time to take in the idea that this is it
- 35:27 – 38:05
Grief After Acceptance
Dr. Ramani explains that painfully clear acceptance brings grief like a tsunami, because people give up a hope and a life story. She says grief is a universal experience that cannot be rushed, can tempt people back into the relationship, and includes mourning the self lost in it.
- •Radical acceptance means giving up a narrative, a hope and a life story
- •Grief is described as the most human experience and cannot be made to go faster
- •Grief can lead people to doubt themselves and consider returning
- •Part of the grief is how much of yourself was lost in the relationship
- 38:05 – 42:08
Rebuilding Your Sense of Self
Jay asks where to start when someone says "I don't know who I am." Dr. Ramani suggests going back to basics with physical check-ins and small preferences like pizza toppings, then working up to meaning and purpose.
- •Check in several times a day on physical states like cold, hot, hungry or thirsty
- •Small choices help recreate a subjective focus after years of being told what you feel
- •Questions like "Who am I?" are too big at first
- •One client's meaning and purpose was simply to get to a day without thinking about him
- 42:08 – 48:58
Anti-Gaslighters and Building Efficacy
Dr. Ramani shares a story of a business call after which someone in the room validated her reaction. She explains how validating people, the 90/10 inversion, and building efficacy through new skills help with the oscillation between feeling confident and lost.
- •Safe, validating people (anti-gaslights) help calibrate your read of situations
- •The 90/10 inversion: put your energy into good relationships, not toxic ones
- •The wobbling back and forth is calibration, like a child learning to walk
- •The old persecuting voice can be treated as an unwanted visitor
- •Trying new things like drilling, baking or learning languages builds efficacy
- •For those harmed in childhood, healing is a build rather than a rebuild
- 48:58 – 53:54
Can a Narcissistic Person Ever Heal?
Jay's last question is whether the narcissistic person can heal. Dr. Ramani cites human potential but is skeptical, saying humility is the antidote, many drop out of therapy, and personality is like a rubber band that snaps back under stress. She says waiting for change means losing yourself.
- •A subgroup shaped by trauma may progress with willing, humble work and a skilled therapist
- •Dr. Ramani says the antidote to narcissism is humility, including accepting being ordinary
- •About 60 to 70% of narcissistic people drop out of therapy when the work becomes vulnerable
- •Change is slow and micro, and the rubber band returns under stress
- •Waiting for them to change is like waiting for a submarine at a bus stop
- 53:54 – 56:33
Closing: A Love Story to Survivors
Dr. Ramani reflects on the loss of human potential to invalidation and calls the book a love story to survivors, urging them to open the gates on their gifts. Jay thanks her and points listeners to the book, It's Not You.
- •Dr. Ramani says losing potential to invalidation is one of the most horrific things to witness
- •Cultural pressure to stay in marriages can deepen the loss of self
- •The book is called It's Not You: Identifying and Healing from Narcissistic People
- •Jay says her clear definitions help him guide others toward support
