If You Want To COMPLETELY HEAL Your Body & Mind, WATCH THIS! | Gabrielle Bernstein & Jay Shetty

Gabrielle Bernstein 0:00 What we're running from first and foremost is we're running from trauma. Even the subtle moments in time, someone tells you you're stupid or you were in the best of environments growing up, but you were fat-shamed by a friend. Those tiny moments that s- are seemingly insignificant dictate the rest of our lives. [upbeat music]

Jay Shetty 0:25 Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, today we have on a guest who has already been on before, and we don't do that very often. But I have to do it for this special guest, a dear friend, an incredible author, #1 New York Times bestseller, multiple international best-selling books, the one and only Gabby Bernstein. Gabby, thank you so much for coming back to On Purpose.

Gabrielle Bernstein 0:57 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 0:57 Uh, we've loved each other from the moment we first met.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00 Totally. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01 And that was six years ago now-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:03 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:03 ... believe it or not.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:04 And we've talked about this multiple times, about how we just instantly connected, and we found a way to stay connected with me moving from New York to LA, through to not being able to see each other. We just said, hadn't seen you for three years.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16 Yep.

Jay Shetty 1:17 Uh, but you wrote this incredible book called Happy Days: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace, and I want everyone who's listening right now to go and order your copy, because you're gonna love this conversation and you're going to want the book even more. So go and grab your copy right now. Uh, but Gabby, you wrote this book at a tough time.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:38 You know, at a really tough time in the world.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:40 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:41 And I wanted to kind of take a step back, because when we're doing this work that we do, and you've served millions of people for years now that you've been doing this, like, this has really been a label of- labor of love for you. You've brought joy to so many people over, over a decade, and my question is

Jay Shetty 2:02 what is happiness?

Gabrielle Bernstein 2:04 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:04 Like, let's really talk about what is happiness, because we keep chasing these words.

Gabrielle Bernstein 2:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:08 People are chasing mindfulness or happiness or joy or success, but it's like when you've thought about happiness from all your learnings, all your wisdom, all of your journey, what is happiness?

Gabrielle Bernstein 2:19 My answer today is quite different than it would've been six years ago when we first did our first interview. [laughs] The difference is, is a greater understanding of what happiness is not. I had to really go to that place to come through and be on the other side of what it truly is, and I began to really deepen my awareness and understanding of what takes us out of that presence of joy. And as, uh, Peter Levine, the founder of Somatic Experiencing, he says that trauma is the inability to be present, and trauma is often the c- the root cause of most of our unhappiness, whether it's big T trauma or small T trauma. Big T, like, uh, living through a catastrophic event or having kind of violence in the household, or small T trauma, being told you're, you know, not good enough or being bullied. But we all have it in some way, and when we have it and it's not resolved, we build up all of these defense mechanisms against it, and that creates the inability to be present and to really experience life with all of its moment-to-moment richness. And right here, right now, looking at you and really taking you in and really just feeling into the thrill of what it's like to be back in the same room with a very dear friend and somebody I love, and even when I came in and I hugged you-

Jay Shetty 3:44 It was the best thing

Gabrielle Bernstein 3:45 ... you know, six years ago, I would've been like, "Hey, Jay," and like very, like, not in my body and not in the present moment with you because I was still stuck in that, that truncated trauma. And so coming through the other side of that, what happiness means to me now is the ability to be fully present, and that, I'm not using that language as, like, some woo woo, but to be fully present in the moment with whatever is going on right here, right now. And that is how I'm living today, and it's epic. It's, it's wonderful. Like, it, the fact that I could be in the Uber on my way here, having a really awesome conversation with the woman driving me and getting to know a new person, and then walking in a room and just being able to hug my friend and feel that. So it was a really long answer, but, but it's important to, to really recognize that I did not know what true happiness was until nine books later. [laughs] You know, 16 years as a s- spiritual teacher, and I knew what it was for myself along the way, but now I really feel like I've gotten to a place where it truly has transcended sort of these obvious descriptions.

Jay Shetty 5:00 I really like that definition and I really like that approach, because I think that presence is so over-talked about but undervalued-

Gabrielle Bernstein 5:11 Yeah

Jay Shetty 5:11 ... and under applied.

Gabrielle Bernstein 5:12 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 5:12 We hear about it a lot, as you said, but we don't really know how to live it, because presence to us often actually means judgment, or presence means I'm present right now, but now I'm gonna critique that or I'm gonna see

Jay Shetty 5:27 that. Tell us how you think about presence differently, because often people say, "Well, when I'm present, I just spot everything that's going wrong right now."

Gabrielle Bernstein 5:35 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 5:35 "Or when I'm present, I just start highlighting things that I don't like or do like, for that matter." So how do you see presence as being beyond judgment and criticism-

Gabrielle Bernstein 5:45 Hmm

Jay Shetty 5:45 ... and observation?

Gabrielle Bernstein 5:46 That's an interesting outlook on it. So the concept of be present, it's just thrown around, and it's this concept of just sort of y- you know, when you meditate and you quiet your mind, you're pr- yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. But really what I believe is when you go on the journey of undoing the storylines of your past and to such a point and level that they no longer have a hold on your nervous system- And you begin to reorganize your reactivity and your relationship to yourself and how you respond to the world, then you start to establish what is known in SE, somatic experiencing, as a felt sense. It's a felt sense of, and what that means is I can stand outside my house in the country right now at this season change and smell spring. I can look in my son's eyes and feel the most insane rush of oxytocin move through my heart when he just looks me in the eye. And that's actually not the h- human experience typically. Typically, we are moving so fast, so dissociated from, so checked out from. We are, we have d- disembodied. We're walking around like, you know, without our heads on. And, and I could only say this because I've lived like that for many, many years, and had to work really hard with my meditation and with my spiritual practice to keep coming back to groundedness. And so there's a lot of that yo-yo of like I'm out, I'm in, I'm out, I'm in. But what if you could live life just fully in the presence of, of where you are in every given moment and truly taking it all in? And that was always sort of like, oh, that would be so, you know, that's where we're going, that's what we're talking about in my s- in spiritual books, but I know that now. And I know that you as my friend who's known me for six years, I'm sure you can feel that in being with me in this room right now versus six years ago. And so, and I've, and I've had that experience even through writing this book, my ninth book, that presence came through the, is, is infused in every imprint. And so I didn't think this was where we were going, but it's actually, it truly is what happiness is to me. It's, it's being in the experience of things-

Jay Shetty 8:04 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:04 ... and actually being able to experience life.

Jay Shetty 8:06 Yeah, I love what you said there. To me it really felt, that example of you looking into your son's eyes, like when you said that, I think what I love about that experience is that it's so immersive, and then you said to take it all in.

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 8:21 And I feel like that's really what presence is, is the ability to take it all in-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:25 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 8:26 ... through all your senses, right? That we don't even use. I, I often when I'm teaching meditation and we're activating people's senses, we start recognizing how we over-rely on our eyes.

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:38 Mm.

Jay Shetty 8:38 The only sense we actually observe through-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:41 Yeah

Jay Shetty 8:41 ... is our eyes.

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 8:42 And maybe then our ears, but our nose, our sense of touch is fairly, uh, unconscious, right?

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 8:49 We're not always aware-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:50 Yeah

Jay Shetty 8:50 ... of temperatures, textures-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 8:52 ... uh, scents and things like that, which, which I find is we're not taking it all in. Uh, one of the things you just reminded me of is I read a study recently that was talking about the awe effect, and it was saying that we're happier and we have more pro-social behavior when we experience awe.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:11 That's right.

Jay Shetty 9:11 And when you spoke about your son's eyes, I was thinking about the idea of awe. So awe is generally nature, beautiful landscapes, views, but someone's eyes could be awe. And it was saying that the reason why we love awe is because we simultaneously feel tiny, but a part of something bigger.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:31 Beautiful.

Jay Shetty 9:32 So you feel a sense of insignificance, but connectedness at the same time.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:37 And I think that's what presence is to me.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:39 I love that, and I think that someone listening right now might be like, "What are they talking about? How could I..."

Jay Shetty 9:46 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:46 You know? Because the truth is is I probably, I get that. I understand that. You know, what does that even mean to be present? What does it even mean to be in awe? Because we live in such a protector mode. We have this huge build-up, almost like a wall built up against the presence of that energy, of that awe. And from a spiritual perspective, it's almost like we have to dismantle each of these bricks on this wall to just reconnect to and return to that presence within ourselves. And, and truly, even in the midst of this experience of not being connected to that awe and that presence for many, many years, I was still able to touch into it. It was, I was on a path and a journey towards it, and I think that that actually really benefited my readers and it benefited the journey that I was on because that's where many people were with me. And so this stage of my life, 42 years young, and with much, you know, 16 years of being in this field, I have this experience right now of having kind of upleveled my wellbeing, and that's actually what my hope is for my reader right now with the... If you open this book, right, or if you are even listening to us right now have this conversation, you've unconsciously or consciously raised your hand and said, "Yeah, I'm ready to uplevel." And the, the, the gift of having this global crisis that we've all just lived through is that so mu- so many of us just started to crack open to the reality that we couldn't just pretend anymore. And this is the journey of kinda unearthing why we have been running and how we've been running and how to stop.

Jay Shetty 11:28 Yeah. What are some of the ways you think we're not even aware? You a- you have a chapter in the book called, you know, like Why We Run Away, and it's like what are some of those hidden ways of running away that you think stay with us? Because I almost feel like there's the obvious ways we know we run away.

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 11:45 Then there's the middle like in between hidden ones where we kinda convince ourselves that we're not running away, and then finally we raise our hands, as you said, and say, "I'm ready to level up."

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:54 What are some of those hidden confusing places where we're running away or excuses that happen-

Gabrielle Bernstein 12:00 Mm

Jay Shetty 12:00 ... that block us?

Gabrielle Bernstein 12:01 I'm gonna come out straight with it, Jay. What we're running from first and foremost is we're running from trauma, period, end of story. And that word has such a loaded stigma around it, and I'm just wanting to bust through that now because we are all traumatized. We, you can't be alive in this world right now at this time or even decades ago without experiencing d-... trauma in some form. And like I said, some of us may have g- been brought up with a, a totally secure attachment, so much resilience, so much grace in our life, and we've experienced trauma, but maybe you're able to move through it with more ease because you had that safe s- safe, secure experience. But it doesn't mean that it's, you're unscathed. It doesn't mean that you have m- missed, missed, you know, th- the, life's lessons. Because even the subtle moments in time, someone tells you you're stupid, you're six years old, right? Or you were, th- in the best of environments growing up, but you were fat-shamed by a n- friend. W- those tiny moments that s- are seemingly insignificant dictate the rest of our lives, and so that's what we're running from. The bigger T, the trauma, as you mentioned, you know, uh, well, actually, I, we haven't gotten there yet, but I reveal a really big T trauma that I had remembered in my, when I, when I was 36 years old. The bigger the T, the trauma, child abuse or living with an alcoholic parent, whatever it might be, but regardless of how big or small the T is, there is something that needs to be undone.

Jay Shetty 13:35 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 13:36 Because ultimately, that's what we're running from, and how are we running? We're running with drugs. We're running with alcohol. We're running with food. We're running with judgment. We're running with work. We're running with rage. We're running with control. And these, all the, the list that I just identified are protector parts of us. So let me just simplify it even more. I am now trained in internal family systems therapy, and the simplification of this is that we have these moments in time where we disembody. We've been, experienced some kind of trauma. We check out, and then we say, "Oh, I never wanna feel that shame. I never wanna feel that terror again." We just lock it up, and those are called exiled parts of us. They're often young parts. And then we build up all these ways of protecting ourselves, and that's the control. That's the, the drugs. That's the addiction. That's the workaholism, whatever it might be, to protect ourselves from ever experiencing that pain again. We all have exiles, and we all have protectors, and this journey that we need to go on is to really relax those protector parts so that they can remember that there is a source of love and an internal parent within us that can take care of us.

Jay Shetty 14:44 It's incredible, isn't it, that what you're saying are these protector parts are actually causing us more pain?

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:51 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:51 So we think we're protecting-

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 14:52 ... ourselves by running away.

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:54 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:55 So we have this protector part, but that protection is not protection. It's actually deepening the wound.

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:01 That's correct.

Jay Shetty 15:02 But it looks and feels and sounds like protection. I've, I've been speaking to a lot of people lately who are saying to me, "Jay, I am too sensitive and empathetic towards this world, and I don't feel like I belong here."

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:16 Right? Like-

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:16 Big time

Jay Shetty 15:16 ... there's this feeling of like, "I just want a world full of love and kindness, and I don't feel like I belong here."

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:23 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:24 It can feel scary to look at the trauma, right? It's scary. Like, there's a big fear around whether it's a small T trauma or a big T trauma, as you said. It can be really tough. And y- you said after doing so much of this work, 36, 6 years ago was when you were able to look at it.

Jay Shetty 15:43 What do you think blocked you up until that point-

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:46 Mm

Jay Shetty 15:46 ... from looking at it, even though you were doing so much work? Or how did your work that you were doing actually open that up as well?

Gabrielle Bernstein 15:53 Both, yeah. Well, dissociation, so similar to what your friends are saying. It's like it's too scary to live in this world, and so you know what? Often, one of the great protector parts is to dissociate-

Jay Shetty 16:02 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 16:02 ... to check out, to even meditate above, right? To, to just, just try to, in some way, numb that out. And for me, I, at 36, r- in a dream, remembered sexual abuse from my childhood, and I had such a huge aha moment when that dream surfaced because this is why I was a cocaine addict. This is why I was a, a alcoholic. This is why I'm, was a workaholic. This is why I was controlling the shit out of everything in my life. So there was relief in knowing, "Okay, this is what I've been running from." And it was so extreme in my case that my brain literally just p- you know, it's a beautiful brain response to say, "Oh, this is so overwhelming to the system that it's going to be totally checked out and dissociated from." But even if you dissociate from a memory, it still shows up in your body. It still shows up in your gastrointestinal issues. It shows up in your sleep. It shows up in your relationships. It shows up in your addiction. It shows up everywhere because you may not have the, the actual claiming of the memory, but the memory's still in your nervous system. W- I remembered at 36 because by that stage, I'd already written about, I'd been 11 years sober. I'd probably written seven books. You know, I'd be- I'd, I'd been really on this very big quest to my own spiritual awakening, and all the work that I had done and everything I'd written about got me to the place where I was safe enough to remember. You know, everything's in the perfect order. There's no accident. I'd done a tremendous amount of spiritual work, a tremendous amount of therapeutic work. I got to a place in my life, also this is important to recognize, where there was a lot of new things happening around me, so control was one of the ways that I kept that exiled story at bay. But a lot of things in my life at that time were falling out of control, so I was, uh, my husband was leaving his job at JP Morgan to come run our business. We were talking about family planning. We had just gotten married. So these big life moments are often when people do remember traumas.

Jay Shetty 18:02 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 18:03 Or if it's a trauma that you're aware of, it can really get activated and come to the surface, so just something for the listener to consider. And it was so horrific and so scary to remember that, but the journey that I've underwent since that time is what allows me to put my face on this book cover and have it say, "The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace" and mean every freaking word of that and to be able to stand behind that with full integrity, authenticity, and, and power. To be able to say, "You know what?" So all these people are so traumatized, everyone's so traumatized, and I can say, "Go do this." And it's, it's, it's a gift to be able to live to tell.

Jay Shetty 18:49 Yeah, absolutely. I, I really appreciate what you said about being safe enough.

Gabrielle Bernstein 18:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:54 Because I think that when you start this work, it's not that all of it happens at the same level, and it's not that the work looks the same every year. And so when you start doing personal growth, self-development, spiritual work, whatever it may be, it's going to look different every single year. New things are going to be unlocked and opened and unearthed. And so I think people can feel comfortable that if they're on the journey-

Gabrielle Bernstein 19:18 That's right

Jay Shetty 19:19 ... there will be a point at which it's safe enough, in your words-

Gabrielle Bernstein 19:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 19:23 ... to feel that you can be revealed to that.

Jay Shetty 19:25 And, and I wanted to say something here because I, I love this dedication, and when you said that about getting married and, and trauma, you actually dedicate this book to your husband. "For my husband, Zach. Thank you for loving all of my parts and helping me feel safer than I ever thought possible," which I thought was beautiful.

Gabrielle Bernstein 19:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:43 Uh-

Gabrielle Bernstein 19:43 You reading that is, like, really emotional for me because, you know, it was a trauma for him to be married to me. And you know, Jay, I open this book by saying that my publishers came to me, and I sent them the manuscript, and these are publishers I'd worked with for so many years, and I'd written books, and they would just accept the manuscript. The Universe Has Your Back, ready to, ready to print, you know, Super Attractor, ready to print. And I send them this manuscript, and they write back like, "We need to talk." And I get on the phone with them, and they're like, "We're really nervous for you, Gabby, because you're revealing so much, and it's one negative story after the next, and we don't think that you're showing your true strength." And my response was, "My ability to be this vulnerable is my true strength." But it wasn't just them, it was Zach. Like, when my husband read this book, he edits my books before they go to the publisher. I have an editor, then it goes to Zach, and then it goes to the publisher. And when he read this, it was really triggering for him, super activating, and there was moments when he would say to me, "I didn't even know this was going on." And that's so emotional for me because when you're living in that kind of recovery and that crisis, there's so much shame wrapped up in it, and especially when you're the self-help book author, you know, that the shame is so extreme that you feel so alone in the journey. And I just have such a deep gratitude for my husband for holding me in that. I have gratitude for all, the whole team of therapists that helped me in that, but, but particularly for my spiritual connection because without that, I would've been really alone.

Jay Shetty 21:23 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 21:23 And so that's really what I want this book to do for people is to help them know they're not alone in this journey and that we all have a lot that we can look at and gently and slowly and safely begin to peel back the layers or take the bricks off the wall. And, uh, yeah, but just, just, just hearing you read that acknowledgement out loud and that, that te- that dedication out loud is just... It just says a lot about what it means to hold another person in their trauma.

Jay Shetty 21:51 The reason why it touched me is because, again, I think a lot of listeners, a lot of comments that I see, a lot of story tags that I see, and, and people that I speak to in my personal life, trauma can break partnerships.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:05 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:06 Massively.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:07 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:07 And we see either people struggling in shared trauma, struggling with their individual trauma being passed over to each other, wounds being shared.

Jay Shetty 22:18 Explain to us how someone can hold space for someone during their trauma journey and work and as they're on this path. And actually, more importantly, because you do tell us the guided path from trauma to profound freedom, how do you help someone help you?

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:37 I'm really interested in that-

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:39 Yeah

Jay Shetty 22:39 ... because, because I find that so often we expect someone else to help us.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 22:44 But how do you help your partner help you rather than expecting them to be a therapist-

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:49 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 22:49 ... which is really unrealistic.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:51 Totally unrealistic. Well, there's, there's a lot of answers to that question. So the best way you can help them help you is to t- to tell the truth to the best of your ability. So even if it's the trauma that you're facing, I actually, on my, on my podcast, I workshop people, and I dear Gabbied someone yesterday, and she was talking about how this book is bringing up a lot for her, and she's starting to face into it, and her partner just doesn't understand. And I said to her, "Listen"

Jay Shetty 23:15 That's what I mean.

Gabrielle Bernstein 23:15 Yeah. And, and I said, "Listen, you may not feel safe enough yet to let him in on your full journey or even what you're facing into, but it would be extremely valuable for you to go to him and say, 'Hey, a lot of stuff is coming up for me right now. It's old stuff from my childhood, and it's really scary for me, and I'm reading this book, and I'm, I'm, I wanna assure you I'm doing this really beautiful work on this, and I'm committed to maybe seeking out therapy and going deeper. And my intention is to really create a safe environment for myself and for our relationship.' But, uh, that's the truth of where I'm at right now." And that may be the only truth that you can tell because it's just too much shame wrapped up in telling exactly what's up. That comment, that truth, that extension of, of, of vulnerability even in that slight way is extremely soothing to the other partner because if you just leave them completely in the dark, and they, they don't understand why you are so reactive. They don't understand why you might pick up the drink. They can't understand why. And so giving them a little look behind the why is a very valuable thing. Another thing I recommended to her was to have him read the book because any, you know, when you've got unresolved trauma, big T or small T, the patterns are just textbook, Jay. You know what I mean? Like, if you were to look at all of my symptoms, you'd be like, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. And I now, having done my research and having studied this and having lived it, I can spot it in humans everywhere. I'm like, big T trauma, small T trauma, big T, big, big, but you know, I can see it. Like, I kept asking Zach at times to read this one book that was about women who had lived through childhood abuse, and it was a little bit too much for him. But handing him a book like this or handing a partner a book like Happy Days allows the partner to be like, "Oh, wow, this whole story sounds just like my partner," or, "Oh yeah, my partner does that, too." And it gives you an insight of like, one, the opportunity for the traumatized person to say, "Look, I'm not alone," and then for the partner to recognize, "Oh, this is a real thing."

Jay Shetty 25:25 I think those are great answers. I, I love both of those. I would highly recommend everyone who's listening and watching, if you're reading Happy Days right now, make sure you share even paragraphs of it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:35 Yes.

Jay Shetty 25:35 You may take a picture and send it to your partner-

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:37 Yes, yes

Jay Shetty 25:37 ... or to a friend.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 25:39 Uh, and of course, if you're not reading it, make sure you grab a copy of the book as you're listening right now because I do believe that what Gabby's saying is so deeply true, that if we have not healed our traumas, we're going to carry them with us into every workplace, relationship, scenario. And it just gets harder because that trauma gets tied up in more people's trauma, and then you can't even tell the difference between yours, someone else's, and collective. And so I feel like the earlier we can do this work, the healthier it can be for us. And I, I love what you just said about the idea of informing someone, "Hey, this is what I'm going through. This is why this week I might be really irritable and why I'm really struggling. This week I'm gonna need your support." And I think, I, I do this with Radhi often even about small things, where I'm like, "I've got this really big thing on Thursday. I'm really nervous about it. Like, just know that-

Gabrielle Bernstein 26:36 That's right

Jay Shetty 26:36 ... this week every gap I get, I'm gonna be super silent because I'm gonna be preparing my energy for this thing." That's a small thing of just something coming up instantly, but what about when you're doing something internal?

Gabrielle Bernstein 26:48 Mm.

Jay Shetty 26:48 So I, I love those, and I would encourage people to, even if someone can't read a book, that you send them screenshots and pictures-

Gabrielle Bernstein 26:54 That's right

Jay Shetty 26:54 ... and it's gonna get them moving. And, and this book does a great job at breaking those areas down.

Gabrielle Bernstein 26:58 I like that idea, too, of being like, "Hey, read this page," or, "Listen to this one section of the audiobook" because, or just listen to the conversation between Gabby and Jay, because what it does is it just gives a little insight. And, and then that also helps you as the reader, as the, as the person on the journey, to take away the shame. There's a chapter in the book actually that's called, um, Speaking the Unspeakable, and it's all about shame.

Jay Shetty 27:23 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:23 And you know, here I was, Jay, I was 36. I was just facing into this. I'm at a retreat, leading the freaking retreat with two other women, and it's a retreat on, you know, women facing their trauma and transcending their past. And I'm about six months into my own recovery, so I had no business teaching at that time, but I didn't realize that. And that's actually, [laughs] you know, s- part of m- m- some of the vulnerable things I share in this book that my publishers were like, "Do you really wanna say that?"

Jay Shetty 27:52 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:53 And I'm like, "Yes, I have to say it all." Um, so here I was, and I'm, I'm teaching this, I'm leading this retreat. And so in the other teachers' session, I'm sitting in the room doing the workshop with them. And the workshop's all about shame. I'm like, okay, like, you know, I'll partner up with somebody and I'll just, like, hold space for them, right? [laughs] And here I am in this dialogue about shame, and I realize at 36 years old, seven self-help books, 11 years of sobriety, you know, dec- you know, over a decade of work on stage speaking about spirituality, and I sit there and I'm like, "Oh my God, shame. I didn't realize I had it."

Jay Shetty 28:30 Wow.

Gabrielle Bernstein 28:30 It's so buried. It's the most impermissible emotion, that it's, it is the exiled part. It was so, so unsafe. I mean, I was like, "Of course I'm lovable. Of course I'm adequate. I don't have shame" [laughs] you know? We all do, but it was so buried so deep that facing into that, you know, is a very gentle process. And so one of, so another intention here, this, in this conversation, in this just speaking of trauma, just giving voice to trauma, is to just end the stigma and shift the shame, because that shame is why we don't open up to our partners. That shame is why we don't even open a book like this.

Jay Shetty 29:06 Yeah, and that's, and that's actually what I was gonna say, that I think one of the biggest things I hear is, "Oh no, I have no trauma. Like, no, I don't, I don't have any shame. Like, no, no, no, I'm..." You know, and I've, I've even led people I've worked with through inner child meditations and, and you know, work, and they don't allow themselves to go there.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:28 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:29 And one of the biggest things I also find is people don't wanna go there because they're scared they'll get stuck there.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:34 Totally, totally, totally.

Jay Shetty 29:35 Right?

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:35 Yes.

Jay Shetty 29:35 And

Jay Shetty 29:36 so tell us a bit about that path-

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:38 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 29:39 ... of opening up something, but not getting stuck there. What is the difference between someone who opens up a book like this, obviously you've given the whole path and it's in here, but I mean, like, that difference between someone who opens up a part of themselves, then just feels like their whole life is collapsing, versus someone who opens it, has the courage to look at it, but then is able to pass through. What, what have you noticed are the differences?

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:01 You have to titrate in and out. It's not, you cannot, when you're dealing with big wounds, big T or small T, I'm gonna keep going back to that because-

Jay Shetty 30:09 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:10 ... some people listening are like, "Oh, you know, nothing's ever happened to me." And if I were sitting with you right now, I could [laughs] find 30 things that are your, that you're running from, you know, or one major thing you're running from. So wherever you are on the spectrum, the first thing to really identify is that you can't just rip the Band-Aid off right away, and you have to go slow. And there are plenty of people that I have right now that in my world, girlfriend just recovering from postpartum depression. I'm like, "Do not read the book right now. You know, put it on the shelf and wait." Um, if someone's opening the book and it's super activating to them, the answer could be, you know, go back into your therapy and then use the book when you feel safer. Don't put yourself in a position where you're gonna blow out your system with too much digging too fast. Now- With that said, inside this book, I hold you by the hand, and I walk you so slowly through these steps. Over and over again, I say, "If this is too much for you, please skip ahead, read the next chapter, go back to chapter three, the body-based work." There's a whole chapter on how to settle your nervous system through body-based practices, and that in itself can just be so soothing to someone as they start to open up to the possibility that there's something that they need to face. And so through breathwork, through physical somatic work, through, through body talk, and just even getting in touch with what's going on in your body, there's so much relief. And so it's just a very slow process. I don't think people can just rip the Band-Aid off at once. It's not, it's not possible.

Jay Shetty 31:39 Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I think a lot of people think they have to-

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:42 Mm

Jay Shetty 31:42 ... or they think that that's the only way, and I was actually gonna talk about that. I love this section on hiding behind the body, and there's a beautiful quote here that you have that says, "I came to accept that I didn't have a gut problem. I still had a subconscious emotional problem."

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:58 And this whole chapter, for everyone who's reading along or, or is gonna get the book, is called Hiding Behind the Body. Uh, and that, to me, was huge because I think today we're all trying to be healthier, hopefully. Everyone who's listening to this podcast, at least, I know is. People are changing their diet. They're changing their sleep routine. They're changing the vitamins they take and the supplements they take, but then they're still wondering why things aren't f- getting worked out, and I think a lot of people who are listening can relate to that. And then you start to recognize that the body is just a window into what's actually sitting behind there. What have you found, because you've been researching this, studying this, you give a guided

Jay Shetty 32:40 path, what were other useful resources-

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:42 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:42 ... on that journey that you kind of recommend to people in the book to say, "Hey, check this person out, or think about this idea or area of your work"?

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:51 In that chapter, I really reference the work of Dr. John Sarno-

Jay Shetty 32:56 Mm-hmm

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:56 ... who wrote Healing Back Pain, he wrote The Mindbody Prescription, and all of his work was really based on the premise that our physical conditions are psychosomatic. And by no means in my book, in my work or in his work was there any reference of, don't get that medication or don't go on that therapeutic path physically, whatever it might be. But to really look closely at what are the belief systems and the impermissible feelings that are not being met behind the physical sens- sensations. So for me, in the book, I reference how I had decades of gastrointestinal issues, and what I recognized through my healing journey is that I didn't have gastrointestinal issues, I had unresolved trauma. I had impermissible rage, I had impermissible terror, I had impermissible shame. And as I began to become safer in my nervous system, safer in my mind, safer, uh, you know, reprocessing memories, I have zero gastrointestinal issues.

Jay Shetty 33:58 I love hearing that.

Gabrielle Bernstein 33:59 I didn't have to cha- you know, I did for decades, you know, SIBO diets and this thing and I had, you know, this supplement. And all of that is necessary. When you're having acute problems, you need medication, you need vitamins, you need diets to just get back to baseline, and for sure. But all of it goes away. So many of our... So, so people are like, "Well, how do I know if I have trauma?" And I'm like, "Well, do you have a sleep disorder? Do you have gastro issues? Do you have TMJ? Do you have..." So go to the body first. Do you have acne? You know, and then it goes even deeper. Do you have panic attacks? Do you have depression? Do you... But the bottom line is, is that our body is a first responder, and our body is such a beautiful way to reveal to us what is, what is needing to be healed. And in fact, we talked about protector parts. The physical body actually is a form of protection, right? So we send, from the Sarno perspective, we have a nervous system response because our traumas are triggered. Our body gets tense. We go into that fight-flight response. So that tension shows up in the stomach, that tension shows up in the migraine, that tension starts to, you know, block oxygen from flowing to these areas. From a gastrointestinal perspective, it stops the GI tract from actually, you know, m- moving, moving bowel- our bowel movements. And then what happens? Bacteria builds up, and then you actually do have a real diagnosis of SIBO or IBS or whatever. Well, if you actually relax your nervous system, your whole system can start to move. You can have that perfect digestion begin to settle because you're relaxed, and in that relaxed state, your body can heal. And so we have to really look at the psychosomatic effect of our physic- the, the physical conditions from a psychosomatic perspective.

Jay Shetty 35:40 Whew. I- it, that already relaxes my nervous system, going like, "Oh, wow," like, "that's where it is." Like, because I think a lot of people right now are just, we're tinkering with so many parts of our life, and then we're wondering, why do I still not feel the way I wanna feel?

Gabrielle Bernstein 35:51 Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 35:52 Right? Like, I'm, I'm doing everything right, and I've, I've been in that position myself where I'm like, "I'm doing everything right. Why am I still not feeling good?" And sometimes it is biological, if y- if you're psychologically done, done some of the work, and then it's the other way around as well.

Jay Shetty 36:08 What were you surprised by when you started doing this work? What was one of the big surprises that came along as you started to do the work on yourself that you actually thought, "Wow, I, I didn't expect this," like, "I didn't think this was gonna happen"?

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:20 Well, I was surprised by the shame. [laughs] I was like, "Wow, I have shame?"

Jay Shetty 36:23 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:23 Like, what is that, right?

Jay Shetty 36:24 That's a huge one, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:25 That was so strange, right? I'm like this spiritual teacher. I didn't even recognize my shame. I w-

Jay Shetty 36:29 What was the shame for?

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:30 I mean, the shame, you know, when you experience sexual abuse in any form, whether you're, particularly as a child, the shame is, it's my fault, the shame is, I'm wrong. And, you know, underneath all of this is the belief that we're inadequate and unlovable. My therapist taught me that, and I remember her saying that, and at the time, I'm like, "I'm very adequate and lovable," like, "what the hell are you talking about?" You know. Decade later, wow, that is absolutely a core belief that I carried for so long. And another big thing I realized was how My spiritual practice actually really saved me and was the through line of all of the guidance of the work that I was led to. And I, in the book, reference very spiritual therapeutic practices for trauma. So I reference EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's bilateral brain stimulation that allows you to reprocess memories. I reference SE, somatic experiencing, which is a body-based trauma therapy, IFS, which I went as far as to get trained in, and IFS is all about the caring for your inner child parts. And these specific therapies are all very spiritual. In, in the clinical space, they may not be referenced in that way, but I can say that, right? And I can be the spiritual voice for them. And I believe it's spirit that, that my, my spirit guides, that my connection to God very, very, very clearly laid out this path for me, and not just for me to live it, but also for me to share it. And then I would say the, one of the biggest surprises, though, was when I would meet these different therapeutic practices, each time I was blown away. I was like, "Oh my God, what..." You know, "I was carrying that. Oh my God, next level. That is so present in my body. Oh my God." You know, and just witnessing and witnessing. And I think that the big- one of the biggest surprises also, Jay, is that when you live with trauma, you think that's who you are. You just think, "I am a workaholic. I am a control freak," and you don't know that there's a way out. And I am so proud. The, the greatest gift I'll give this world is my bravery to go to the places that scared me and come out the other side so that I can live to tell that this works, that you can survive trauma, and that you can thrive.

Jay Shetty 38:47 I feel it, the confidence in-

Gabrielle Bernstein 38:48 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:49 ... in your space, and I also just appreciate how you were able to push back your control parameters and protectors because like you said, you've been doing this work for a long time. You've been teaching this work. You're helping people. You're changing people's lives, and then going, "Well, actually, there's another layer."

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:09 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:10 What layer of love was that work in the trauma? Like, when you said we have that deep-held belief of I'm unlovable and I'm-

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:21 Inadequate

Jay Shetty 39:22 ... inadequate, how do you fall in love with yourself again-

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:25 Hmm

Jay Shetty 39:25 ... when you realize that's at the root of it?

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:28 Because really, you're not trying to fall in love with yourself. Before, you're trying to protect and fix.

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:32 And then all of a sudden, now you're saying at this stage, that lo-

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:35 You return to

Jay Shetty 39:36 ... yeah, you return to. Yeah, exactly.

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:37 Well, I'm gonna answer that from an IFS perspective.

Jay Shetty 39:40 Please, yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 39:41 And when I, when I use the a- acronym IFS, it's internal family systems therapy, and it's not actually about your family, your outside family. It's about your inner family. So you've got your exiled parts of you and you've got your protector parts of you, and then we all have self. Your language, you might call it higher self or God or the universe, and I did that as well for many years, inner guidance. And Self is Self with a capital S, and what Self is is the internal parent. It's the undamaged, resourced part of who we are. It's the man that I'm sitting with here right now. You show up to your podcast in Self, and that's actually why it's so resonant with people, because they feel that there's no ego attached to it. There's no... You're not showing up with, like, a presence of neediness or anything. You're showing up, "This is me. I'm, this is what I'm here to do. I'm on my mission." But when your wife triggers you, your protector parts might show up and you might start to get into an extreme pattern, and that's for all of us. So we all have access to this undamaged resource part of who we are. Self qualities are courage, compassion, calmness, creativity, curiosity, connectedness. And when we are in that presence of self, like you and I are, are here right now, anything's possible. I could say to you right now something really difficult for you to hear, but you would hear it with love because I'm grounded in that, uh, in that self energy. And so the main way to fall back in love with yourself is to let self become the leader of your inner system. So it's not like we wanna control or push down or manage these protector parts of ourselves. There's no bad parts. We just wanna help them be less extreme. And how? We wanna let them know that there's an internal parent. Let me give you a really clear example, okay? So I, let's say something triggered me last week. I was, like, in a conversation with some friends and I was like, "Oh my God, they don't like me." Like, an old exiled part was there, and when the exiled part comes up, you don't wanna feel it, right? So then one of my protectors tries to numb it out, and the protector is the judger in that case. Like, "Well, they're wrong," right? [laughs] And I go into, like, all the reasons they're wrong because I don't wanna feel that shame. And then I'm like, "Well, oh my God, no, I'm wrong because I..." You know, so we attack others. We attack ourselves. And so those are protector parts, and the judger came up.

Jay Shetty 42:12 Someone has to be wrong.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:12 Somebody has to be wrong, right.

Jay Shetty 42:13 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:14 So the judger was there to protect me from feeling that impermissible feeling. And then because I have this, this great through line to self, I was able to notice, "Oh, okay, notice there's a protector up. Okay. Notice. Where do I feel that in my body? Notice. Is it, does it have a color? Does it have a shape? Is there, is there something that it wants to say to me? What do I know about it? Okay, I know it's young. I know it's a young girl who, you know, doesn't feel like she is u- understood in high school, right? And I know that she's just wanting to blame others 'cause, because she's so scared. And what does she need right now? She needs a hug. She needs to breathe." And I can let her actually speak to me and I can listen to that part and then I can give her what she needs. And so it's literally a practice of becoming your own internal parent. Creating the secure attachment that we did not get from our parents with ourselves, and there's no greater form of self-love than letting Self with a capital S lead your entire system. And you have to see the- the thing here, Jay, is I didn't shame that part. I wasn't like, "Oh, that judger is there," or that young child part's showing up, like, "You're a loser." I actually really got curious about it. I was compassionate toward it. I brought a calm energy to it. And so the goal here really is to begin to soften and relax the protectors. Because frankly, Jay, you know, the protectors are not bad, right? Like, the controller wrote nine books in 11 years.

Jay Shetty 43:51 [laughs] Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:51 You know, she did a good job.

Jay Shetty 43:53 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:53 So but we just want her to be less extreme.

Jay Shetty 43:55 Yes.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:56 And so she can keep producing and keep creating, but not in that extreme way. It's a lot of density. In chapter seven of the book, I go deep into IFS, but I wanna just reiterate for the listener, notice, know, need. Noti- in the moment, when you can... If you have enough awareness to notice that you're triggered, notice it in your body. What does it feel like? Is there a color? Is there a shape? What do you know about it? And then what does it need?

Jay Shetty 44:18 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:19 And give yourself a moment to try that out.

Jay Shetty 44:20 Even though there's so much depth to it, I felt that was very clear because I think that's what we're ultimately avoiding, is accepting that we have an inner child need.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:30 That's right.

Jay Shetty 44:31 Right? It's like that's ultimately what we're running away from, is that we do have a gap internally, and it isn't gonna be solved through something in the external world. It's not gonna be solved through someone saying something to us in a nice way or someone changing-

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:46 Right

Jay Shetty 44:46 ... or, right? Like, it's not gonna be-

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:47 Yeah, like my husband changing his tone is never going to heal my wounds, right? It may make a wor- create a world where I'm less activated less frequently.

Jay Shetty 44:57 Yes.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:57 But, like, someone else's behavior cannot change your reactivity, and that doesn't mean the other person shouldn't show up as well. But, like, you have to be your internal parent. Your partner can't be your parent. Frankly, in many ways, your parent can't-

Jay Shetty 45:10 Can be a parent, yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:10 ... parent you back to that, you know?

Jay Shetty 45:12 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:13 You, especially if you're, you know, 42 years old or whatever it is, as a little child, the expectation is you'll have that, but most don't.

Jay Shetty 45:20 That's so powerful because I think most of us, what we're yearning for is to live in a less deactivated state. So ideally, what we want is if everyone was just nicer and kinder, then things would just feel better.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:34 [laughs] Right.

Jay Shetty 45:34 Right? But the reality is that not everyone's just going to be nicer and kinder. Uh, and if we can be in that environment, that's beautiful. It's a great environment to grow in, but what you just said was so brilliant. You were like, "You know, if my husband changing his tone is not gonna solve the wound." And, and I think that that's why the path that you just laid out is fantastic because we're constantly checking in with everyone else's needs. We're trying to be pleasing to other people's needs.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 46:05 I don't know the last time, most people, if we're honest with ourselves, and I want everyone who's listening to truly be honest with yourself, when was the last time you checked in with yourself? And not just yourself, your inner child self, the younger self, as Gabby was saying, and said, "What do you need?"

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:21 Mm.

Jay Shetty 46:21 I just... I mean, even me, I'm, I'm listening, I'm going, "Can't remember the last time I did that for myself."

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:26 And the distinction

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:27 here, too, is that you're asking the protector part what it needs.

Jay Shetty 46:31 Yes, yes.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:31 Because the exiled parts are really locked up, Jay.

Jay Shetty 46:33 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:34 Like, they're, like, locked in a basement.

Jay Shetty 46:36 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:36 And to start to touch into the exiles, I would recommend doing that with IFS therapy-

Jay Shetty 46:41 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:41 ... like with an IFS therapist. You can learn more about it. I do an interview with Dick Schwartz on my podcast, and then obviously in this chapter there's a whole dialogue about IFS, and we can give some resources links as well in the show notes, but more importantly, that you would go through that deeper exiled child part journey with a trained therapist, particularly in this system, but that you right now, right here, can start to just be a parent to those protector parts, and that's the first step. Because the protectors are really the ones that you can see. The child's activated, but the protector swoops right in.

Jay Shetty 47:18 I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:18 The protector's like, "Oh, I'm gonna lock that door." They- like, there's a little activation. "No, thank you. I'm gonna put that fire out by picking up a drink. I'm gonna put that fire out by raging." You know? And so you wanna work with the alcoholic. You wanna work with the rager, and the more you soften d- your relationship to those protector parts, the closer you can get to the exile.

Jay Shetty 47:35 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:36 Because the protectors are there, first responders. Like, no way. You're not gonna get behind that door. And so you have to start to soften those relationships.

Jay Shetty 47:42 That's good. That's a good distinction for me because I was... Yeah, I think I, my space was still with the exiled part. But as you said, for a lot of people, those may be too locked up-

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 47:51 ... and should not be left there.

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:52 And for some, it's less so. You know, for some, for some people that have done a lot of personal growth work, like if you and I were to do a session in IFS right now, we could get to your child parts, and m- you'd be very safe there. You've done a lot of work. You've go- you're safe in your system. We could go to an exile, but I would never... Like, the average person that hasn't done a lot of personal growth work, it's not, it's not safe to go there.

Jay Shetty 48:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:12 That's, that's-

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:12 Without the therapy, yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:13 Yes. Yeah, absolutely, and that's a great distinction to make, again, that we don't want people, uh, going off and trying to do something that-

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:19 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:19 ... isn't gonna serve them.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:21 Uh, you, you talk a lot about, you know, in the book, the, I think one of the last chapters or the last chapter is Love Every Part.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:27 Mm.

Jay Shetty 48:28 Um, and, and I think just as we believe we're unlovable and inadequate, we somehow believe that that's not possible.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:37 Mm.

Jay Shetty 48:38 Right? Somewhere inside of us, there's a belief that it's actually not possible to be happy-

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:45 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:45 ... or to love ourselves. Like, it just exists there

Jay Shetty 48:48 somewhere. Do we develop a belief that it exists before we find it, or do we start looking for it and find it along the way?

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:55 Mm. I was looking for it and found it along the way, and I remember being in the early stages of remembering the trauma and waking up super depressed, waking up so down, so scared Not totally disembodied for months. When you actually remember a dissociated trauma, you kind of go back into it, so you're living in terror. Like, everything is just danger. And I was just like, "There's no way out." But I was so committed. And so I think the most important message is it's not about getting out overnight. In, in AA when you get sober, they say, "I wish you a slow recovery," because that means that you're doing the work. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 49:35 Wow, I love that.

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:36 And it means that you're d-

Jay Shetty 49:37 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:37 ... you're going-

Jay Shetty 49:38 I love that

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:38 ... under the surface and peeling back the layers. And so the same goes, I mean, addiction, addiction really is a root cause is trauma per- period, so it's really going back lo- slowly into the trauma. And so I would say that to the person that's recognizing trauma is, "I wish you a slow recovery," meaning that every small layer that you peel back is a miracle, and the more you add up those miracle moments, the closer you get to living a miraculous life.

Jay Shetty 50:05 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:05 So you can celebrate your successes along the way. So for today, maybe you pick up Happy Days and you just read the first chapter. That's a success story. Maybe you just listen to this podcast episode again. That's another layer. Maybe you practice one of the breath practices in the book. That's another layer. And it's, it's, it's a very, very gentle process, and you have to be fully celebrating every step of the journey. Am I done, Jay? I'm not done.

Jay Shetty 50:34 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:35 I still go to therapy every Wednesday.

Jay Shetty 50:37 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:37 I still have sometimes two additional sessions a month. I still am deep in EMDR. I'm still doing my own IFS on myself. I'm gonna be going forever, just shining the crystal.

Jay Shetty 50:46 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:47 And so, but there is really freedom on the other side. There really is.

Jay Shetty 50:50 Well, that's that presence again, right? In being present in the process, as you just said. But I think that's what's so hard right now, is that because of the way the world's going, everything's become more instant, more fast, fast recovery, quick fix, and I mean, that's always been the way, but it's become more and more and more and more and more. And then when you're being asked to do slow recovery and the real work, which is what we know genuinely has the reward during and at the end of the journey, I find that that collision is so hard for people because they wake up with resistance again. So it's like just when you had that moment when you felt you had a breakthrough, you wake up the next morning and the resistance is fully back.

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:34 Yeah. That's actually why I think it's valuable to build up your toolbox-

Jay Shetty 51:38 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:38 ... of self-regulating techniques, and they're in here.

Jay Shetty 51:41 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:41 And the reason that's valuable is that you can still feel relief along the way. You can still have fun along the way.

Jay Shetty 51:48 Yeah, it's not postponing the journey, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:50 You've known me for six years. Six years ago, I was, like, totally in a very different nervous system than I am now, but I still had fun.

Jay Shetty 51:59 Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:00 You know, I still could be with you and just have a great time.

Jay Shetty 52:02 For sure.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:02 And it was a different kind of fun, and it was a different kind of experience because I wasn't in the presence that I'm in now, but it's not like you can't live your life and have joy along the way. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:11 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:11 Like, the, these, and especially if you're on the journey. That's why it's called a spiritual path or a spiritual journey. If you're on the path and the journey, every step of it's an up-leveling. And so, and especially if you have this arsenal of these self-regulating tools, okay, I can be going through some big stuff. I can be slowly getting sober. I can be slowly recovering from trauma. I can be slowly going through therapy, but at the same time, have these amazing meditations, have these amazing breath practices that soothe me, have these great breakthroughs in my therapy or in my relationship, and just celebrate those miracles along the way.

Jay Shetty 52:45 Tell me how you think about trauma differently as being a mom.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:48 Oh, dude, if you've got unhealed trauma and you are about to become a parent, particularly I would say, for both parents, but particularly a mother that's gonna carry a baby and deliver a baby and in the first early days be the food for the baby and the whole thing, uh, you wanna do this work. [laughs] Because if you don't, you know, what will hap- you know, if you, even if you do or you don't, doesn't matter, it'll all come flooding in. In my case, not only did the trauma flood in, but I also was hit with really terrible postpartum depression, suicidal postpartum depression. I write about it in the book, because it actually often, if you have unresolved trauma, can be, uh, very activating even with the biochemical condition of postpartum. It just can take it to the next level. So for me, my, having my son was one of the biggest trauma responses I've experienced in my life, was postpartum. That's a beautiful blessing, because when you make the commitment to have a child, you are having to ask yourself two questions: Am I gonna do this the way it was done for me, or am I gonna show up big time? And how do you show up? You show up for yourself, because the more you re-parent yourself, the clearer the path to parenting your child. There's a chapter in this book called Reparenting Yourself. It's all here. It's just-

Jay Shetty 54:06 Yeah, yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:06 ... it's almost a joke.

Jay Shetty 54:07 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:08 And it's this chapter called Reparenting Yourself, where in early 2020, I'm like, you know, running my business, like, everyone's in this, like, storm. My kid's home. He's two years old. He's na- napping twice a day. It's, and, and me and Zach are the only ones with him at that time, 'cause everybody's home, and I went diving deep into the, the parenting books, particularly Dan Siegel's work, and he has a lot of methods. And one of them I loved, the four S's, seen, soothed, safe, secure. And I started applying this with my kid, and I was making sure I was really seeing him and soothing him, not just physically, but, like, really energetically, and creating a safe environment, not just that he won't fall over on the, you know, but, but safe energetically. And that creates a secure attachment bond. Now, I was looking at this experience with Oliver, and I was like, "No one ever did this for me," you know? [laughs] I was like, "But why can't I do this for myself?" And so I wrote a whole chapter. I s- I did it for myself, and I wrote about it, and so the best parenting advice I have is to do the work on yourself. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:08 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:09 This is a parenting book as much as it is-

Jay Shetty 55:11 Yeah. [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:11 Because it's reparenting yourself to be a better parent.

Jay Shetty 55:14 Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:15 And, and with that, I mean, it's again the shame again, right? Like, from the mothers that I know well who, who are open and honest with me, if you go through that Post giving birth, it's like there's shame and guilt in that-

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:27 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 55:28 ... because it, it because it impacts. So it's again, another opportunity to ch- to choose shame and guilt.

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:33 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 55:33 Uh, and then you don't tell anyone because as a mom, mom guilt is even harder to share.

Jay Shetty 55:38 What did you do in that period? I mean, obviously you're doing all of this work, but what did you specifically do-

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:45 Yeah

Jay Shetty 55:45 ... to, to move through that?

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:47 So here I was now at that stage, had published maybe seven or eight, eight books, something like this. And, you know, I'm just sort of showing the world of where I was, a self-help book author, very entrenched in the wellness space, brought up homeopathic, really believing in natural medica- medicine, never had fulfilled a prescription at a pharmacy. And in many ways probably was a part of the stigma around mental health 'cause I would be in my audiences and people would say to me like, "I'm depressed" and I'd be like, "Try this meditation." And I didn't realize if you're having a biochemical condition, it doesn't work if you're having a biochemical condition. And so I was having a biochemical condition, but not fully giving it voice. And I got to the point where I was having insomnia. I had insomnia for four months, and when you don't sleep, you get extraordinarily depressed. And for me, it became suicidal. I open the chapter talking about how I'm driving to Mother's Day brunch, and I'm in the backseat with my son and under my breath I say, "I want to kill myself." And so that's where I was at, and I did not get help for four months, maybe longer. I was undiagnosed because of the stigma and the shame of what mental illness is. And you know, we have to really begin to look at the shame and the stigma around it. And so for me, in, in my experience here, I was in this wellness world and, you know, finding that ashwagandha wasn't gonna be the answer, and melatonin wasn't gonna be the answer. And L- you know, L-theanine for my stomach wasn't gonna be the answer. And even in the therapy, the therapeutic tools were no longer working. The meditation was no longer working. And finally I hit a massive bottom just four, four months of not sleeping. I actually missed a talk, a live talk. It was the first time in over a decade that I didn't show up because I hadn't slept the night before. And then I finally reached out to a friend who was a psychiatrist and I said, "I need help." And he put me in touch with a postpartum psychiatrist. I saw her the next day. She diagnosed me within 10 minutes. She said, "You have postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, you have to get medicated." And she saw all that resistance in me, and she looked at me and these were the words that helped me. She said, "This medication will give you a safer baseline so that you can do the deeper trauma work." And those words just punctured me. I just heard everything she said and I said, "Okay. All right, I'll do it." And I took that prescription and I went down to the pharmacy and I stood in the pharmacy with my husband. I was like, "What do I do? I don't even know what to do. I've never even fulfilled a prescription." He's like, "You hand it to the pharmacist." And I held that medication in my hand, and the placebo effect just set right in. And I was like, [sighs] "There is a way out of this."

Jay Shetty 58:36 Wow.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:37 And I was having a biochemical condition. You can't mess with that.

Jay Shetty 58:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:41 You cannot meditate your way out of that.

Jay Shetty 58:43 Mm-hmm, agreed. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:43 And so here I am now, you know, a voice for really ending the stigma around mental illness. If you have a proper diagnosis from a psychiatric, from a psych- a psychiatrist, and you have that psychiatric support, there is no shame in following the medicated path. Yes, of course, we live in a culture where medication is overly prescribed and unnecessarily prescribed, and there are a lot of things you have to know and educate yourself on when you get on psychiatric medication, but when you need it, you need it-

Jay Shetty 59:11 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:11 ... to survive.

Jay Shetty 59:12 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:13 And it is, and it is exactly what she said. That medication created a safer baseline in my system so I could unearth the deepest, deepest wounds and come out the other side.

Jay Shetty 59:25 [sighs] Gabby, thank you so much-

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:28 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:29 ... for shedding your soul in this book and this episode. And what I love about this book is that it has your story and your journey. It has really practical tips and steps for people to actually follow, and it has these real methodologies and approaches to guide them as well. And, and I think it's masterful in the way it's kind of like the tapestry of all of that together. And I think what underpins it is just your ability to go all the way and be so vulnerable as you have been today in today's episode, but, and also in the book. And so if anyone who's listening, if you know for a long time you've been shying away, you've been protecting yourself, you've been putting it off, postponing it, you know it's there, maybe a physical response is really triggering right now. Maybe something that someone says is pushing you over the edge, then please go and grab a copy of Happy Days, uh, today. The link is in, uh, the comment section and everywhere else. And make sure you follow Gabby. Her podcast is called Dear Gabby. Uh, go and listen and subscribe to the podcast. You can also follow Gabby on social media across all platforms, Gabby Bernstein. Uh, make sure you go and do that. Gabby, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking out the time to do this, because I think you've made me ask so many questions that I'm gonna go back to after this episode where I'm like, "What do I need to take a deeper look at? What have, what have I really not worked through, or what am I avoiding or ignoring or putting off?" And I'm just grateful for that. I'm really grateful that you've given me the space to do that, uh, given us all the path to do that through this book.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:01:07 Thank you for your presence and for seeing me even when I couldn't see myself, and it's, it's such a privilege to be your friend. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:01:16 Oh, thank you, Gabby. Thank you so much. Uh, everyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you tag me and Gabby, uh, on your post so that we know what resonated with you, what connected with you. I just wanna point out that a lot of my guests have said this to me recently. It makes me very happy. Our On Purpose community is amazing, and I've been getting messages and speaking to a lot of my friends who've been on the show saying that they just felt the love, like the flood of love from our community. So please show that to Gabby as well. Thank you for doing that for all the other guests before. I wanted you to know that I've been hearing about you personally from so many people, and let's start living some happy days. So take care everyone. Thank you so much for listening. [upbeat music] If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.