JOHN LEGEND'S EYE OPENING Speech On How To Manifest ABUNDANCE & HAPPINESS | Jay Shetty

John Legend 0:00 When we first met, we were, like, very attracted to each other. It was, it was, uh, our chemistry was great. Um, but that l- level of attraction is more, like, infatuation at the beginning of a relationship. And love, when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more, like, uh, more real than that. The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 0:32 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you that join every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, I know you're here because you're fascinated, as I am, about creators' stories, people's backgrounds, walks of life, choices they made, decisions that changed the trajectory of their journey because you're trying to make the same in your life. And today's guest is someone that I had down as one of the names when I first started the show four years ago, nearly four years ago, and it was one of those people that I wanted to speak to because I was a fan of his music for a long time, his journey. And I'm grateful that today we actually get to do this in person in my studio at home in LA. And so I'm speaking about none other, the one and only John Legend, who's garnered 12 Grammy Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy Award, making him the first Black man to earn an EGOT. During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums. His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th, is out right now. I've been listening to it. It's beautiful. I can't wait for you to listen to it if you haven't already. John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October, so make sure you check that out. And I'm really excited because his Masterclass on songwriting has just released, and if you don't already have a Masterclass subscription, make sure you grab one. I first got one when Bob Iger, uh, had his Masterclass. That's what took me to the platform. And now John Legend has his own on songwriting. So John, welcome to the show.

John Legend 2:12 Great to see you. Great to meet you.

Jay Shetty 2:14 Yeah.

John Legend 2:14 I'm excited for our conversation.

Jay Shetty 2:16 Yeah, me too. I usually know people that are on the show, and I was like, this is... We've never met.

John Legend 2:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:21 Uh, and we've never crossed paths w- you know, and so it's always nice to... I feel like this is the best way to get to know someone deeply and intimately-

John Legend 2:30 Sure

Jay Shetty 2:30 ... is do a podcast with them.

John Legend 2:31 When else would you have a, a, a situation when you meet someone and you have over an hour to talk to them and learn about them?

Jay Shetty 2:37 Yeah. When was the last time you did that?

John Legend 2:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:39 Is there- When was the last time you sat down with someone?

John Legend 2:41 I don't, I don't know that that ever happens. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:44 [laughs] Yeah. It's, it's a blessing, and it's-

John Legend 2:46 Yes

Jay Shetty 2:46 ... it, it truly is. But I, I mean, I remember being a kid in London. I remember when we first heard your music, and we're like, "Who is this person?"

John Legend 2:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:55 At the time, I was listening to R&B and hip hop and rap, and then it was like, oh, this is very different. Like, this isn't... You know, it's hard to kind of-

John Legend 3:02 Yeah

Jay Shetty 3:02 ... pin it down into one of those genres. But I want to dive into your journey today as

Jay Shetty 3:07 well a little bit, and I want to start with you being homeschooled.

John Legend 3:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 3:10 Uh, when I, when I was researching and reading, I was like, wow, I had no idea.

John Legend 3:14 Yeah, I was homeschooled by my parents, uh, particularly my mother. We grew up in a very Christian home. My parents sent us to a Christian school for a couple years, but it was a little expensive for them to send us to private school, but they still wanted us to have a very kind of Christian education. They decided that instead of sending us to this Christian school, they would basically take the curriculum from the school, use the books, uh, from the school. And, uh, the school had this homeschool liaison as well because a lot of evangelical Christian parents like to use this, uh, this method. We would work with the school, but my mom was our main teacher, and we were home a lot with her. Um, we had, you know, friends in the neighborhood, relatives in the neighborhood, but yeah, we were, uh, with our parents and, and at the house quite a bit when most of our friends were going to public school and, uh, being around a bunch of other kids.

Jay Shetty 4:10 What's your strongest memory from that time, or something that you took away that has kind of stayed with you? Because I find that homeschooling's still a fairly small population when it comes to-

John Legend 4:18 Yeah

Jay Shetty 4:19 ... people doing-

John Legend 4:19 It's very big in the evangelical Christian community.

Jay Shetty 4:22 Right.

John Legend 4:22 What I remember from it, you know, I was very precocious, so I, I loved to read. I loved to independently do whatever. You know, I would just want to advance past whatever I was supposed to, uh, be doing at the time. I was obsessed with, like, encyclopedias and dictionaries. I ended up winning the city spelling bee during that time. So I was very precocious, wanted to learn everything. My mom had a typing textbook, and I just decided I was gonna learn how to type. I was taking piano lessons during this time too. So I just wanted to learn everything and, uh, know how to do everything.

Jay Shetty 4:57 What, what's something that you've been trying to learn more recently or where that mindset's kind of, like, carried through?

John Legend 5:02 Well, I, I don't. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 5:04 [laughs] What would you like to, then, if, if, if you had the time?

John Legend 5:07 I should do more Masterclasses.

Jay Shetty 5:09 [laughs]

John Legend 5:09 I should, uh, uh, be a consumer, more of Masterclass.

Jay Shetty 5:12 Yeah.

John Legend 5:12 But, yeah, I haven't done that recently. I do like to read a lot, and I like to just read about how the world works. I like to read about, um, policy, and I'm very interested in, you know, how to craft a better society that's more loving and more generous and more just and more equitable for more people. And so I like to read books that kind of discuss some of these policy ideas and, and ways of thinking about the world.

Jay Shetty 5:39 Yeah. No, that's beautiful, and it is true. Like, I feel like we all get so busy-

John Legend 5:44 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 5:44 ... that it's hard to find time to keep learning.

John Legend 5:47 Yeah. I mean, I haven't recently taken up anything where I'm like, "I want to learn how to do this," that I don't know how to do. I tried to do it with guitar for a while, and then I just got so busy that I never, like, stuck with it. And, um-I haven't had something like that recently that I've done. Maybe I should learn another language.

Jay Shetty 6:04 Yeah. [laughs]

John Legend 6:04 Uh, my friend did some Duolingo. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 6:07 Yeah. No, I, I-

John Legend 6:08 And it worked for her.

Jay Shetty 6:09 No, I'm with you too. I, I, I feel like... But it's fun looking back at, like, what was that in childhood that we loved and-

John Legend 6:14 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 6:14 ... kind of reconnecting with that.

John Legend 6:16 It'd be good, you know?

Jay Shetty 6:17 Yeah.

John Legend 6:17 Now that you brought it up, I'm like, why haven't I, you know, picked something I wanna learn about? I always thought about, should I go back to college and, like, take classes and just, just randomly take classes where there's no pressure to get good grades, but just you want to learn something?

Jay Shetty 6:31 Yeah.

John Legend 6:32 Um, that'd be fun.

Jay Shetty 6:33 Well, that's a beautiful point, that as an adult you actually get to go and learn something without the pressure of it-

John Legend 6:38 Yeah

Jay Shetty 6:38 ... having to, like, get good grades-

John Legend 6:40 Yeah

Jay Shetty 6:40 ... or be a certain-

John Legend 6:40 Like my mom, she's going to college right now.

Jay Shetty 6:42 Wow.

John Legend 6:42 She never graduated, and she decided she would just go and, you know, she's, like, almost 70 years old.

Jay Shetty 6:48 That's amazing.

John Legend 6:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 6:49 What, what is... what's her experience been like?

John Legend 6:51 Uh, she loves it. She really enjoys it. I think it's very, like, stimulating for her and, you know, she doesn't work, so it's, like, something to occupy her mind and to stimulate her mind, and she really is learning new things.

Jay Shetty 7:03 That's amazing. So you, you went from being homeschooled to then being, like... and obviously there's many years in between, but being homecoming king.

John Legend 7:10 Yes. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 7:11 Right? Like, it's like-

John Legend 7:11 And that's like a-

Jay Shetty 7:12 Prom king, prom king.

John Legend 7:12 Yeah, prom king, prom king.

Jay Shetty 7:14 Yes.

John Legend 7:14 Sorry, we don't have proms in London, so-

Jay Shetty 7:16 [laughs]

John Legend 7:16 ... you know, where I grew up, so-

Jay Shetty 7:17 Yes

John Legend 7:18 ... I always missed that. I would watch Hollywood movies and I'd be like, "Why don't we get to have prom?"

Jay Shetty 7:22 Yeah.

John Legend 7:22 And

John Legend 7:23 so we never did that, but what was that experience like of then moving from, like, this very specific homeschooled culture, religious culture, institutional culture, and then transitioning? Like, talk to me a bit about-

Jay Shetty 7:35 Yeah

John Legend 7:35 ... that transition as a young adult or as a-

Jay Shetty 7:37 So-

John Legend 7:38 ... child

Jay Shetty 7:38 ... it was interesting because at the time, the, the impetus for us transitioning into public school was our parents getting divorced. Um, and that, uh, the impetus for that really was, it began with my grandmother dying. So my grandmother was very important in our lives. She was very important in my mother's life, and they made music together. They ran the church choir together and were very close, and when she died, it really sent my mom into a spiral, um, mental health-wise and, and, uh, uh, she ended up, um, abusing drugs and, and just really becoming distant from our family for a while. During that period, my parents got divorced. Our world was being shaken in a lot of ways, and one of the ways it was being shaken is we're like, "Oh, now we're going to public school," after, you know, an entire, you know, 10 years of my life where I didn't spend any time in public school. And, you know, it was quite an adjustment, um, coming from home school, and I also, because I was so precocious, I ended up being skipped two grades ahead because I tested out of, um, the grades I was supposed to be in. And so I end up starting eighth grade at the age of a sixth grader- Wow

John Legend 8:48 ... and, uh, starting high school at the age of 12 and graduating at the age of 16. So all of it was a bit, you know, difficult, you know, socially adjusting, adjusting to my parents being divorced, adjusting to being in a public school setting when I'd never been in one before. There were a lot of adjustments to make. That's why I'm always, you know, wary of the idea of homeschooling kids, because the social development just isn't really there. Um, but I figured it out, so.

Jay Shetty 9:19 Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. [laughs]

John Legend 9:20 [laughs] I think music was always my way of-

Jay Shetty 9:22 Mm-hmm

John Legend 9:22 ... of helping me find ways to connect to people because even though I was too shy to really strike up a conversation in person, I wasn't too shy to get up on stage, and once I got up on stage, it was my way of introducing myself to people. It was like, "Oh, this is me. This is who I am," and I didn't have to break the ice with people because my music was my way of breaking the ice. It was like my social crutch, I would say, at the time. It enabled me to make friends, enabled me to feel, like, some control over what I was doing, and I think when you feel like you have something you're really good at, it makes you feel a bit more empowered to do other things and to, to connect with other people and to feel like you can take up space because you feel like, "Oh, I have something that I've shown everyone that I'm really good at."

Jay Shetty 10:14 I think that is such a great point, and I, I completely agree with you. I was a really shy kid growing up-

John Legend 10:19 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 10:20 ... and massively introverted, and still am to this day-

John Legend 10:23 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 10:23 ... in many circles, but my parents forced me to go to public speaking drama school.

John Legend 10:28 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 10:28 And so I would go for three hours a day, three days a week-

John Legend 10:32 Yeah

Jay Shetty 10:32 ... so nine hours a week all year round.

John Legend 10:33 That's a lot of time.

Jay Shetty 10:34 It's a lot of time.

John Legend 10:35 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:36 And as I improved in both those areas of my life, that's where I would feel at home.

John Legend 10:40 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:40 And now I started to have more confidence in different circles, and you can move that around. And I was speaking to my friend recently, one of my closest friends, his son's, like, 10 years old, and he was saying that he's struggling with confidence.

John Legend 10:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:52 And I, and I said exactly what you just said. I was like, "Well, have you helped him get good at something?"

John Legend 10:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:57 I was like, you know, "What is he interested in? What's he naturally gravitating towards-

John Legend 11:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 11:01 ... that he could be encouraged in further?"

John Legend 11:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 11:04 Because that would empower him, as you said.

John Legend 11:06 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 11:06 And I think that's such a beautiful thing because we don't know what to validate ourself through when we're kids. Uh,

Jay Shetty 11:13 but hearing you reflect back on it makes sense, but I'm guessing at that time there was a lot of stress. I mean, being a young kid whose parents are divorcing, like, like you said, like, your mother's also experiencing mental health and-

John Legend 11:23 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 11:24 ... drug abuse. Like, how were you making sense of that? Like, what helped you?

John Legend 11:27 It was hard to make sense of it, and, uh, I, part of my way of, of dealing with what was going on with my mother was to try to ignore it, honestly. And, and so I would, uh, pour myself into school, pour myself into music, pour myself into these things that kept me busy so I didn't think about everything that was happening in my family. Uh, and my dad did a great job of, you know, helping us, guiding us through it. We had a lot of extended family in our community, cousins, aunts, uncles, who helped fill in the gaps as well. And then we had people at school. I had a guidance counselor who, he was one of the only Black men that worked at my school, and he really, like, decided to take me and my older brother under his wing and, um, just was really helpful and, and just- Figuring out school, figuring out how to get into college, all these other things that my parents didn't really know how to help us with. We just were fortunate to have other people fill in the gap. You know, they say it takes a village-

Jay Shetty 12:27 Yeah

John Legend 12:27 ... to raise a child, and I think a lot of times when your parents aren't able to give you everything that you need, uh, it's good to have other people in your life that can do it.

Jay Shetty 12:37 Yeah.

John Legend 12:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:38 Especially, especially now, I feel like, I feel like there's so... I'm not a parent yet, and of course-

John Legend 12:43 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 12:43 ... you are, but it's like, there's so much pressure on two people-

John Legend 12:48 Yeah

Jay Shetty 12:48 ... to be everything-

John Legend 12:49 Yeah

Jay Shetty 12:49 ... to these new human beings.

John Legend 12:51 And what you realize is that, you know, you don't have to be everything. It's great to have other people around you, a village, a community. That's one of the things that was so difficult about the pandemic, was that s- feeling that, um, you didn't have that, you know, community support that n- most people would normally have.

Jay Shetty 13:11 Mm-hmm.

John Legend 13:11 That f- feeling of being disconnected and, and separated from a lot of people despite all the technol- technological ways that you can get in touch with them. It's nice to be in presence with people, and, uh, I think when people didn't have that, we're, we're seeing the results of it with a lot of kids' learning loss and, and falling behind in school and there's a lot of things that you just can't do remotely, that you need that community support to do.

Jay Shetty 13:38 Yeah, no, absolutely. I wanna, I wanna give a shout-out to our community for staying with us through-

John Legend 13:41 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 13:41 ... the pandemic because for me, sitting with someone like this face-

John Legend 13:44 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:44 ... to face, even for an interview, it's like the connection that you have with someone-

John Legend 13:49 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 13:49 ... as opposed to through a screen-

John Legend 13:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:51 ... it's just incomparable.

John Legend 13:52 It's, it's different.

Jay Shetty 13:53 Yeah.

John Legend 13:53 And, uh, we, we made the most of, of what we had to do during that time, but clearly it's preferable to be in person, and I think particularly for kids as they're trying to learn, they need that.

Jay Shetty 14:05 Yeah. Did you have to... You said then, I think you're so right, like as kids, we, we ignore stuff like that. We try and avoid it.

John Legend 14:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:10 We try and, you know, we have to. We... And I loved what you said. You poured yourself into your music.

John Legend 14:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:14 You poured yourself into school, and that's why outlets, artistic outlets are so fantastic to have as young people.

Jay Shetty 14:21 Did you ever have to revisit it? Did you feel like it naturally just improved, there were changes? Or did you ever have to revisit that as an adult to be like, do I n- did you ever feel the need for any healing, or did you feel that just naturally kind of came to a place?

John Legend 14:34 Well, we needed to heal. We needed to forgive, um, our mother because we felt abandoned by her.

Jay Shetty 14:43 Wow.

John Legend 14:43 She eventually got sober, came back to her family. She healed in a lot of ways as well, and, um, you know, recovered in a lot of ways. And we still had to deal with forgiving her, though, because I think when you feel let down by your parent, part of what you need to do for your own growth is figure out how to forgive them and how to love them and not be held back by whatever resentment or anger or disappointment you might feel, because if you continue to hold onto it, it actually hinders you, uh, as much or more than it hinders anyone else. Uh, the person that may be the object of your forgiveness, that's great to forgive them, but it's just as important for you, um, because that's the best way for you to go on and live the best life that you can live, is to get that weight off of your shoulder, um, that you're holding onto.

Jay Shetty 15:40 And it's almost hardest doing that with our parents-

John Legend 15:43 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 15:43 ... because when we're young, you kind of see them as the person who's meant to be the caregiver and the safety net.

John Legend 15:49 Yeah, and I think the letdown is the, is-

Jay Shetty 15:51 [laughs]

John Legend 15:51 ... bigger b-

Jay Shetty 15:52 Dramatic, yeah

John Legend 15:52 ... yes, it, it's dramatic because you expect them to, you know, they're supposed to have all the answers, they're supposed to do the right things, they're supposed to show you the way to do it, and then when they, when we realize they're not infallible and, and then they fall from grace in our eyes, I think the disappointment is even greater.

Jay Shetty 16:08 Yeah. But I love that point you're making that there's, there's two sides, and you got to experience the beauty of your mother's growth and-

John Legend 16:15 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 16:15 ... transformation and change.

John Legend 16:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 16:18 But it's like, that person's like, "I'm back," but then you-

John Legend 16:20 Yeah, and you're like-

Jay Shetty 16:21 [laughs]

John Legend 16:22 ... you're like, "Oh, okay." You don't know r- like, you've gotten used to dealing with n- not-

Jay Shetty 16:27 Not

John Legend 16:27 ... being with them and not having them in your life, and my parents got remarried during this time, and that was weird. Um, [laughs] so-

Jay Shetty 16:33 Wow

John Legend 16:33 ... it was, like, a lot of dealing with all those feelings, dealing with forgiveness, wondering how to adjust to having that person back in your life. Um, all of that. It was, it was very interesting.

Jay Shetty 16:44 Yeah. Mine was kind of the, the opposite where, like, I was encouraging my parents as a 10-year-old to get a divorce.

John Legend 16:51 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:52 So I was seeing and experiencing-

John Legend 16:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 16:54 ... and they would both tell me about what was going on, and I'd be like, "I think you guys should separate because I want you both to be happy-

John Legend 17:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 17:01 ... and we'll be happy." And then they stayed together [laughs] until, like, three years ago.

John Legend 17:06 Okay.

Jay Shetty 17:06 They, they never separated until now.

John Legend 17:08 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:09 And I feel like they're so much happier and fulfilled because of it, but they were thinking they were staying together for the kids.

John Legend 17:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 17:15 And, and as a kid, I was like, "No, no, no, no, no," like, "I don't think this is-"

John Legend 17:18 That's so interesting.

Jay Shetty 17:19 Yeah.

John Legend 17:19 Well, yeah. I, I think when my parents got divorced both times, it was the right thing. They, they got divorced twice, so they're not together now.

Jay Shetty 17:27 Yeah.

John Legend 17:27 My dad's remarried, and my mom hasn't. But, uh, both times I think it was the right thing to do. I wasn't actively encouraging it when I was younger. Uh, it was traumatic for me when I was younger.

Jay Shetty 17:40 Yeah.

John Legend 17:40 Um, but, um, it was the right thing to do.

Jay Shetty 17:44 Yeah. How are you finding that now, being a parent yourself? Like,

Jay Shetty 17:47 h- what are the, what are the parts of this journey that kind of influence your approach now? Because you are aware that we are not perfect, any one of us-

John Legend 17:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 17:56 ... and we're gonna make mistakes.

John Legend 17:57 I'm aware we're not perfect, but I-

Jay Shetty 17:58 Yeah

John Legend 17:58 ... I, I do feel, I think Chrissy and I both really believe in the idea of creating, like, stability in our home for our kids, showering them with love and encouragement, teaching them about what it means to be kind, what it means to be loving, what it means to be generous, what it means to be passionate about something and pursue it. Um, all of those things we want for them, and we want them to see in us a loving relationship Um, that teaches them what love is supposed to feel like and what it's supposed to be like. I want us to be a great example of what love means for them and how they should expect a partner to treat them, how they should treat their partner. I wanna be a good example for them, and I think Chrissy does, too. And, um, yeah, I don't wanna get divorced. [laughs] I know that.

Jay Shetty 18:49 Yeah. Yeah, of course.

John Legend 18:49 Like, I, I really truly... You know, and, uh, you've come from a situation where you're like, "Well, they should have gotten divorced. This is the right thing for them to do," but, but I also am like, "Oh, I really want a stable home for our kids-

Jay Shetty 19:04 Totally

John Legend 19:04 ... and I want them to be surrounded by love and to see in us an example of what love means, and hopefully we can maintain that for decades and decades to come. Like, I want us-

Jay Shetty 19:18 Absolutely

John Legend 19:19 ... to be grandparents having them over for Sunday dinner and, like, I want that for us.

Jay Shetty 19:24 Yeah. I wish that for you, too. Definitely. That's beautiful. And, and I, I don't disagree with you. I think the point you made there is so clear, that you want what stability means.

John Legend 19:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 19:33 And I think what sometimes adults don't recognize is staying together is unstable-

John Legend 19:38 Sometimes it is

Jay Shetty 19:38 ... sometimes.

John Legend 19:39 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:40 Uh, but there's always gonna be some unstabilit-

John Legend 19:42 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 19:42 ... instability, of course, but I think that's the challenge. Like, we usually see togetherness as stability-

John Legend 19:47 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 19:47 ... and breaking up as instability, but often if two people are together but it's causing more stress for everyone else-

John Legend 19:53 That's true

Jay Shetty 19:54 ... yeah.

John Legend 19:54 And there's definitely circumstances like that.

Jay Shetty 19:56 Yeah.

John Legend 19:57 Uh, God forbid that happens to us. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:58 No, no, no. Of course. Yeah, yeah. No, no, definitely. No, and, and by the way, ev- it's so interesting what you're saying 'cause I literally just spoke... We- I just interviewed, uh, Dr. Gabor Mate-

John Legend 20:08 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 20:08 ... and he's, like, a, a healing and trauma expert-

John Legend 20:11 Uh-huh

Jay Shetty 20:11 ... and, and researcher. He's, like, in his 70s, I think, right? Like... And so he's been doing this his whole life, like, looking at trauma, looking at addiction, looking at children, and he literally just said what you just said, where he's like, "You can't love your kids too much." Like-

John Legend 20:22 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:22 ... you know, giving them a safe, loving environment. And I think for a long time I confused love and safety.

John Legend 20:29 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:29 And, and I realized, like, safety was really what you needed as a child.

John Legend 20:34 Yes. You really do.

Jay Shetty 20:35 Is it... Yeah.

John Legend 20:36 Yeah, I really truly believe that, and we want to have them feel safe and surrounded by love and care. Um, it doesn't mean you don't want to allow them to make mistakes, um, but you do want them to feel like they can make mistakes in safety.

Jay Shetty 20:52 Yeah.

John Legend 20:52 And I think, um, uh, when people feel unsafe, uh, it contributes to fear, contributes to trauma, uh, and a lot of things that make, uh, their responses unhealthy as they get older. Because, uh, if they're dealing with so much fear a- and danger in their lives, it affects, uh, the way they respond to stimuli. It affects the way they deal with fight or flight and all these things that kind of... These mechanisms that your body has to deal with trauma and, and fear, like, if they get activated too much, then it's hard for them to cope with life.

Jay Shetty 21:29 Yeah, absolutely. When, when someone's as exceptional as you are at, at what you do, I wanna hear about, like,

Jay Shetty 21:36 what was the hardest part about getting that good? Like, what was the ch-

John Legend 21:40 Uh-huh

Jay Shetty 21:40 ... when was it challenging to pick up an instrument or, or learn an element of music? Like, what was the... Was there ever, or did it just c- was it just so natural and effortless that it's always been that way?

John Legend 21:52 Well, there's always effort, and I think, um, part of it is, like, figuring out what you wanna specialize in, what you wanna do really well. Like, I play the piano pretty well, but I'm not, like, an expert concert pianist. Like, I've seen what they can do, and I can't do it. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:08 [laughs]

John Legend 22:08 And, and, um, I got good enough at the piano to accompany myself, to accompany others, to write, and to perform live, but people that focus on playing the piano are much better at playing the piano than I am. What I've chosen to focus on is being the best singer-songwriter that I can be, so I spend a lot of time focusing on my voice, focusing on songwriting. So those are the, the two most important things for me, and those are the things that I spend the most time and energy on. And it's not easy to write songs, and it doesn't come automatically. Um, but I've developed ways of getting, getting to that point where I'm pretty good at writing a song. And even my worst songs are pretty good.

Jay Shetty 22:52 [laughs]

John Legend 22:53 Um, that didn't come automatically, though. It came through, like, just writing a lot, listening to a lot of music, but also writing a lot of music, and trying different ideas, seeing them work, and collaborating with other people who push me and bring out the best in me and give me new ideas. All of that made me a better writer, but it wasn't easy, and it wasn't automatic.

Jay Shetty 23:20 Yeah. There's often a perception that people have that the way you write songs or whatever is that when someone's going through emotional turmoil, their artistic expression is heightened.

John Legend 23:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 23:34 And then when their external circumstances are less stressful, it can be harder to find creativity. Is that true? Is that accurate? Or have you found that you can always... or you have a method to always tap it? Because your songs are like, your lyrics are highly emotive. Your, your songs are about real issues in your life.

John Legend 23:51 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 23:51 It doesn't matter whether your external life has changed. How have you continued to be able to access that? Because I think some people think, "Oh, when my life was hard, I wrote my best music-

John Legend 24:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 24:00 ... and now that my external life is simpler," 'cause there's no easy life, "my external life is simpler, I kind of find it harder to access."

John Legend 24:08 I've gotten so, um, experienced at writing that I can turn it on pretty much at any point, but one of the ways I do that is by bringing other people in the room.

Jay Shetty 24:23 Right.

John Legend 24:23 And so that way you're not always relying on your own inspiration, um, which may be hard to summon sometimes. Um, and I think because I've been such a, a promiscuous collaborator, um, it enables me to stay refreshed as a, as a creative person because even if I don't immediately have an idea- I could be in a room with someone who does, and then I can bounce off of that, build on that, and we can create something together. And then I also have quite a bit of methodology around my songwriting that makes it easier for me to tap into my creativity and tap into that inspiration so that when I have it, I'm able to go from inspiration to completion in a way that's tried and true for me. And that's what I spend a lot of time on in the Masterclass, is just explaining, you know, like, this is h- my methodology for writing a song. The inspiration's gonna come from different places. Sometimes it comes just from I dream about a song and I sing it into my phone and, uh, and remember it that way, record it for later, and then go to completion when I, uh, when I go back to the studio and, like, and sit down to write. But either way, the inspiration's gonna come at some point. Sometimes it's just a, a riff that somebody else plays or a beat that someone else plays, and then it leads me into a vocal melody, and the vocal melody leads me into, like, a feeling of like w- this is what this song feels like to me. This is what the story is that I want to tell. And then I know how to build a song pretty easily from those kind of seeds of ideas. And, um, yeah, that's what I spend a lot of time on in the Masterclass is just teaching that once you get this seed of an idea, here's how you take it to a complete song. And it works really well for me because it makes it so that I can write, once I have the idea, write pretty quickly.

Jay Shetty 26:15 Yeah, and I thi- I, I want to unpack that for everyone because I think from anyone that I've sat down with who I believe is extreme high- extremely high performing in their space, obviously everyone on Masterclass is at that level in their field, and then when I've sat down with people like Kobe Bryant as well or like Novak Djokovic or Jennifer Lopez, it's like everyone always talks about this balance with what you're saying perfectly is, like, there's inspiration, and then there's regulation.

John Legend 26:39 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:39 There's, like, actual methods-

John Legend 26:41 Yeah

Jay Shetty 26:41 ... processes, structure. It's like we all think that there's a magic moment-

John Legend 26:44 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 26:44 ... which it sounds like there is-

John Legend 26:46 Yes

Jay Shetty 26:46 ... but then that magic needs to turn into a method-

John Legend 26:48 Yes

Jay Shetty 26:48 ... in order to actually turn into something beautiful.

John Legend 26:51 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 26:51 Yeah.

John Legend 26:52 And, and the people that you, you were referring to, like Kobe, he was so naturally gifted. So he, he had this God-given gift to be this amazing athlete, but he took the gift, which some people have and don't maximize it like he did, he took that gift and worked so hard-

Jay Shetty 27:13 Yeah

John Legend 27:13 ... practiced so hard, spent so much time in the gym. Like, there needs to be more to your, your ability than this natural ability. It needs to be cultivated. It needs to be honed. It needs to be practiced. And with songwriting, I've gotten to that point where it's not just, "Oh, I have a gift for music. Oh, I can sing. Oh, I, uh, have a good ear." It's, "Oh, I've spent a lot of time honing my craft as a songwriter, and it helps me, uh, figure out how to take this idea and make it a song that works."

Jay Shetty 27:47 Yeah. And I love how everyone's different. Like, I completely agree with you. Like, when I'm doing this, it's like even though I'm not in the same field as you-

John Legend 27:53 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 27:53 ... you could say something, I'm like, "Oh, that... I need to do more of that." Yeah.

John Legend 27:57 I, yeah, I mean, and when you, when Kobe passed, I spent a lot of time just thinking about just, like, what it takes to be someone like him, and I think it really inspired me. It's like you really, like, if you want to be great, if you want to be w- like, world-changingly great at something, you gotta put in the time and energy to do that.

Jay Shetty 28:16 Yeah.

John Legend 28:16 And, uh, it can be inspiring to see examples of that in the world and then say, "Yeah, I want to be more like that."

Jay Shetty 28:23 Yeah. Well, even when you were giving the example of when you're in the studio and you're bringing people in-

John Legend 28:27 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 28:27 ... like, for me, the podcast is like that. Like, I sit down with people that I'm not in the field of at all-

John Legend 28:31 Yes

Jay Shetty 28:31 ... and I get to, I'm like, "Oh, that's how they do it in their field. How can I apply that-

John Legend 28:35 Yes

Jay Shetty 28:35 ... to mine?" And I think that's what Masterclass does great, but ... Because we had Russ on, the rapper.

John Legend 28:40 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:40 And he was talking about the opposite, where he was like, "I don't like having anyone in the room with me because if people are in the room with me, then I don't get to be silly, or I don't get to be-

John Legend 28:50 Mm

Jay Shetty 28:50 ... totally expressive." So he w- he said to us, he was like, "I get rid of everyone, and then I make weird sounds into the microphone to see what works for me, whereas if my boys were there," he was saying, "If my boys were there," he was like, "They would all laugh at me."

John Legend 29:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:03 Uh, and so I'm wondering who d- who do you like having around

Jay Shetty 29:06 you? Like, could you give us an example of some people that you've sat with that you're like ... And they don't have to be even people that we know. They could be other people behind the scenes, but someone that you're like, "Oh, yeah, when they're in the room, they kind of spark me this way or that way."

John Legend 29:16 Well, I, I take his point-

Jay Shetty 29:19 Yeah

John Legend 29:19 ... as saying you don't want people around that aren't totally bought in creatively-

Jay Shetty 29:26 Totally

John Legend 29:26 ... because you want people in the room that are in there to create something beautiful with you. And if they're there to be like your kind of ... What my sense is, I don't know him-

Jay Shetty 29:37 Yeah

John Legend 29:37 ... and, and I don't know his friends-

Jay Shetty 29:39 Yeah

John Legend 29:39 ... but what I'm, my sense is that he's saying, like, he, he might want to be too cool around them-

Jay Shetty 29:45 Yes

John Legend 29:45 ... and if he's too cool around them, he may not come up with the best art.

Jay Shetty 29:48 Yeah.

John Legend 29:49 And, um, I think it's important to have ... I don't have random people in the studio when we write.

Jay Shetty 29:54 Yeah.

John Legend 29:54 Like, I have only writers in the studio, and we just sit there and vibe off of each other and, and see where the vibe takes us. And hopefully everybody's bought in to the idea that we just want to make something amazing and something beautiful and something interesting and something that's a great song, and they're not worried about being cool, not worried about anything else other than let's make this great.

Jay Shetty 30:16 That idea of being around people that you're okay to make mistakes around-

John Legend 30:21 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 30:21 ... be fearless around-

John Legend 30:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 30:22 ... like, that's the kind of people you want in the room.

John Legend 30:24 And we just try things, and I try not to have any ego about my ideas. So that means if, like, I ... I do a thing called a mumble track usually where I just mumble a melody and see if we like it. And some of the other writers in the room may do the same thing, and I'm like, "Oh, I like their idea better, um, than mine." And I think you need to have that openness to other people's ideas, that humility when you're a collaborator. Um, and so I think part of what I'm really good at is that spirit of collaboration, so I understand that all the great ideas don't need to come from me, and that, um, I can benefit from this other energy and creativity in the room-

Jay Shetty 31:06 Yeah

John Legend 31:06 ... and be open to it, you know? Um, be humble enough to receive it and not think that it all has to come from me.

Jay Shetty 31:13 Yeah. Egolessness is hard, though. Like, that's like-

John Legend 31:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:15 ... especially as you become more successful-

John Legend 31:17 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 31:17 ... like, I think that's something people struggle with because-

John Legend 31:20 Well, so-

Jay Shetty 31:20 ... you have to trust yourself to some degree. So how did you... Yeah.

John Legend 31:22 Well, I think so-

Jay Shetty 31:23 Yeah

John Legend 31:23 ... is, well, the interesting th- about ego is, like, the people that you think of that have big egos are also very insecure. So it's like, um, it's very interesting thing about that combination of the inflated ego and the heightened insecurities at the same time.

Jay Shetty 31:41 Yeah.

John Legend 31:42 And it can be very debilitating when that's the issue because, uh, a lot of times when you hear, "Well, this artist, whenever they come, they won't let you look at them, they want this and that," and what I hear when I hear that is not, "Oh, they think so much, h- so highly of themselves," I think, "Oh, they're pretty insecure probably."

Jay Shetty 31:59 Yeah, yeah.

John Legend 31:59 Um, and so it's interesting thinking about that and what that means and what the kind of, I don't know what the s- s- psychology is behind that, but it's an interesting combination that I've observed in the world, is that people that are seen as having big egos and being difficult to work with are also usually pretty insecure.

Jay Shetty 32:17 Exact- I think you're spot on. When I started the show, when I started interviewing people, I noticed that too, where there was natural social anxiety-

John Legend 32:23 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:24 ... and a lot of people were just so used to being on when the camera was on-

John Legend 32:28 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:28 ... that that's when they came into full force.

John Legend 32:30 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:30 But then when the camera was off, it's not that they didn't care-

John Legend 32:33 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:34 ... it's that they didn't even know how to connect-

John Legend 32:36 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:36 ... because they've been so trained in that way.

John Legend 32:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:38 And so you're right. I think it's so interesting that from the outside we can be like, "Oh, that person has an ego," or-

John Legend 32:43 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:43 ... "They're being arrogant," or they're, you know, they have a, they're braggadocios or they have-

John Legend 32:48 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:48 ... a bravado, but it's not that. It's-

John Legend 32:49 Yeah, my assumption is that they're probably insecure.

Jay Shetty 32:52 Yes, yeah.

John Legend 32:52 That's usually my assumption.

Jay Shetty 32:53 Yeah, yeah.

John Legend 32:53 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:54 No, that's well said. I've got to give you a bit of context before this next question because I, I... So my wife, we've been married for 10 years now.

John Legend 33:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 33:01 Uh, sorry, married for six years, been together for 10 years.

John Legend 33:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 33:04 And she, my team was looking at her the other day and she was reading a book, and they were like, "Oh, what are you reading?" 'Cause she'd taken the cover off and they couldn't tell, and she was like, "Oh, I'm reading my husband's book." Like, it's my book which I wrote two years ago now, two and a half-

John Legend 33:17 Ah

Jay Shetty 33:18 ... two years ago. And they were like, "What, have you not read it?" Like, most of my team's read the book, and she hadn't. And they're like, "No, no..." She was like, "No, I never got round to it. You know, I read bits."

John Legend 33:26 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:26 So, like... So my question is, I heard Chrissy said something similar where, like, she sees the name of a song and then she's, like, wondering, like, "Wait a minute, how did he call that the name of the song?"

John Legend 33:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:35 But is she your number one fan? Does she listen to everything? Or, or do you often find that, like, she's catching up with everyone else?

John Legend 33:42 Well, she doesn't love hearing, like, demo versions of songs.

Jay Shetty 33:46 Right.

John Legend 33:46 So, uh, she doesn't like to kind of be in the sausage-making part of the album.

Jay Shetty 33:52 Yeah.

John Legend 33:52 Uh, and so she'd rather hear it once everything's done, and so that ends up m- meaning that she's, like, learning about things when, you know, close to when a lot of other people are learning about them too.

Jay Shetty 34:04 [laughs]

John Legend 34:04 Um, and so yeah, there are times when she's like, "Oh, news to me." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:09 Yeah, yeah. And I-

John Legend 34:10 But she, she just doesn't like to be in early on the process because she's found, I think from when we first started dating, that when she fell in love with the demo versions, that we changed them so much that she didn't like, you know, um, kind of falling in love with the early versions because it kind of almost disappointed her when the-

Jay Shetty 34:29 Yeah

John Legend 34:29 ... finished version was out because she felt, like, less connection to it.

Jay Shetty 34:32 Oh, wow.

John Legend 34:33 So she decided she just didn't wanna be involved early on in the sausage-making.

Jay Shetty 34:37 Well, she has good reasoning.

John Legend 34:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:38 My wife just didn't have time for me. [laughs]

John Legend 34:40 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:40 But, but, but I, I find that interesting in couples, right? The idea of, like-

John Legend 34:44 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 34:44 ... we were talking about being a good example as a couple-

John Legend 34:46 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 34:46 ... and trying to build that loving relationship. Like, I find that in an immature stage in my relationship, I constantly wanted my wife to be my number one fan.

John Legend 34:56 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 34:56 Like, I... There was a time where I was like, I want her to read everything and listen to everything and watch-

John Legend 35:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 35:00 ... everything and share everything, and like, there's... I'm talking about, like, maybe, like, seven, eight years ago.

John Legend 35:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:05 And then as time went on, I just started to realize, I was like, "Well, she's not with me for those things-"

John Legend 35:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:10 Right? Like, she can support them and appreciate them-

John Legend 35:12 Sure

Jay Shetty 35:13 ... but she's living with the real me and is experiencing that. Like, I guess my question

Jay Shetty 35:19 is, like, how do couples appreciate and admire each other in an effective way when often we just lean on our partner for validation and glorification often?

John Legend 35:29 Yeah. I still really want Chrissy to be into my work.

Jay Shetty 35:33 I love it. [laughs]

John Legend 35:34 And, and, and I think more so because, like, it just feels good, uh, to know that she has good taste and, and she loves music and that she likes something I did. Like, you know, I'm like, "That's awesome," and I want her to love it, and I respect her a lot and I trust her a lot, and I feel like she has good taste, so if she likes something I did and she especially likes it, then that's a really good sign for me.

Jay Shetty 35:58 Yeah, yeah.

John Legend 35:58 Um, so it feels good. Like, it's not that I'm insecure about it-

Jay Shetty 36:02 No

John Legend 36:02 ... it's that, like, I really want her to love it.

Jay Shetty 36:05 Yeah.

John Legend 36:05 And I want everyone to love it-

Jay Shetty 36:06 [laughs]

John Legend 36:06 ... but I want her to love it more. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:09 [laughs] I know. I'm the same. I'm the same.

John Legend 36:10 Yes.

Jay Shetty 36:10 I was doing something recently, but-

John Legend 36:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:12 ... but my wife's also the person that will give the most honest feedback.

John Legend 36:14 Yes.

Jay Shetty 36:15 Like, I will practice a presentation or whatever I'm doing in front of her, and she will just pick it apart, but I know she's doing it out of love 'cause she also wants me to be incredible at what I do.

John Legend 36:25 And we help each other so much-

Jay Shetty 36:26 Yeah

John Legend 36:26 ... uh, and we believe in, in each other and we support each other so much, so you know, when she's working on a cookbook, I'm, you know, helping her. I'm tasting s- stuff. I'm doing whatever I can to help. And, um, you know, we collaborate on a lot of business things together. So there's a lot we do together, but she doesn't like to, uh, be in, in the weeds o- of my music creating, uh, career. But she- ... goes to a lot of my shows. She always has feedback for-

Jay Shetty 36:54 Yeah

John Legend 36:54 ... um, you know, how we can put the show together better, be more effective at, um, you know, the set list and arrangements and different things like that. She has ideas about how it should look, and, uh, she's given me great feedback over the years on that kind of stuff. So I'm always happy when she's proud of me and when she's excited. That's when, you know, I feel very like, "Okay-

Jay Shetty 37:15 Yeah

John Legend 37:15 ... we're doing something right here."

Jay Shetty 37:16 Yeah, no, I feel that.

John Legend 37:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 37:18 I can relate to that too.

John Legend 37:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 37:19 Like, like if I do something and my wife's happy, it's a different-

John Legend 37:21 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 37:22 ... it's a different form of happiness.

John Legend 37:23 Like my Vegas show, like I'm so proud of it, but, um, it was especially good for me to hear that she was so proud of it.

Jay Shetty 37:31 Yeah.

John Legend 37:31 And, and so, uh, excited to show her friends and, you know, tell people about it 'cause that just... It was like, it's an, it's an extra good feeling when, when she says that.

Jay Shetty 37:44 Yeah, definitely.

John Legend 37:45 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 37:45 No, I relate. And I, I think the question came from, I think it was when she said something about when she saw the song title, uh, I Don't Love You Like I Used To.

John Legend 37:52 I Don't Love You Like I Used To.

Jay Shetty 37:54 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

John Legend 37:54 And that's an interesting song-

Jay Shetty 37:55 It's a great song. It's a great song

John Legend 37:56 ... for a couple because it's like, um, when you go through things together, you learn more about each other.

Jay Shetty 38:02 Totally.

John Legend 38:02 You grow, and it's not the same kind of love you had when you first met.

Jay Shetty 38:07 Yeah.

John Legend 38:07 Um, when we first met, we were like very attracted to each other. It was, it was, uh, our chemistry was great. Um, but that l- level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship. And love, when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like, uh, more real than that. We've been through enough together where it's like really fortified us and made us stronger, and those tests have made us grow together and, and, you know, realize things about each other that we didn't know. And going through all of that makes you be able to write and sing a song called I Don't Love You Like I Used To. It's, it's different now-

Jay Shetty 38:56 Yeah

John Legend 38:56 ... but it's better. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:57 Yeah, yeah. I, I love that song 'cause I, I felt the same way. I was just like-

John Legend 39:01 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 39:01 ... that is such a great title because you're like, "Oh, no-

John Legend 39:03 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 39:04 ... what's going on?"

John Legend 39:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:05 And then you're like, "No, actually it's true."

John Legend 39:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:07 And I think the challenge with love is that we, we've been programmed to believe that it should stay the same.

John Legend 39:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:12 We've been programmed to believe that you should go recreate your first date-

John Legend 39:15 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 39:15 ... and everything should feel like your first date, and it's almost like, well, what if it got better?

John Legend 39:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:19 You know, what

Jay Shetty 39:20 if there's more? What were you like when you met Chrissy, and how have you evolved, do you think, as a, as a man, as a human, as a person? Like, what, what has evolved and grown about you in a positive way?

John Legend 39:29 Well, I think I was more selfish then. Um, like I wasn't a great partner at the beginning of our relationship even though I was very into her and, and, um, very excited to be with her. Like, I was still selfish. Uh, I was in my, you know, mid-20s, still like, you know, not ready to fully be like the committed partner that I am now. But, you know, once you really figure out that you love someone and you really like love so much about them and you really wanna make it work with that person, like you have to decide like, "I'm going to do the things I need to do to be a good partner in this relationship." And I've just grown, uh, as a person because of that too. Because when you stop being so selfish, when you think about not only the joy you get from a, a situation and the pleasure you get from it, but also think about your responsibility and your commitment in that situation, I think you just grow and you mature, and that's... You know, I think part of it's just a matter of time. You need time to become that person that you wanna be. I think in your mid-20s you're still dealing with impulse control, you're still dealing with selfishness, you're still figuring out what you wanna do in your career. All these things are happening. But, um, when you figure those things out, you can just be a better person in general, and I think it makes you better at other things too when you're, when you're able to understand that balance between what you're trying to get from a relationship but also what you need to give-

Jay Shetty 41:03 Yeah

John Legend 41:03 ... to make it work.

Jay Shetty 41:04 Yeah. What, what did you think that you didn't value about her in the beginning but today like you're like, "Oh, I notice that more now"? Like, "I, I, I didn't even get that at that time because of my immaturity or earliness"?

John Legend 41:15 Well, I, I feel like I've just learned so much about her personality, how she reacts to stress, how she reacts to life, how she can find a joke even in like-

Jay Shetty 41:26 [laughs]

John Legend 41:26 ... the craziest... Even in grief, like she's able to find humor. And like I feel like you see so many things about your partner as you grow together and as you experience adversity together, and what I've seen from her has just made me love her more and value her more. Uh, like I think she's cooler now than I've ever thought she was.

Jay Shetty 41:47 [laughs]

John Legend 41:47 Like, I just really have seen her in all kinds of situations. I just value her more and, and, and, and in awe of her more than I ever have been.

Jay Shetty 42:00 That's beautiful. That's great. I, I, I wish the same for my marriage too. It's, uh, it's definitely going-

John Legend 42:04 I wish it for everyone's-

Jay Shetty 42:05 Yeah

John Legend 42:05 ... honestly. I, I love love. I went to two weddings this weekend. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:08 Oh, wow. Okay.

John Legend 42:09 Uh, and, and like, I truly like, I can... I, when I'm at these weddings, like I genuinely get emotional and I genuinely feel like joy for this couple, uh, in, in, em- embarking on this journey together, and I love celebrating that. I love, um, seeing it flourish and, and seeing people who are committed to each other make it work. Like, I love it.

Jay Shetty 42:34 Yeah.

John Legend 42:34 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:35 No, me too. I love love too.

John Legend 42:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:36 I, I've just written a whole new book about love.

John Legend 42:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:38 It comes out next year. But it's like I, I officiated two weddings in the last 12 months.

John Legend 42:42 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 42:43 And the difference, the pressure and the honor of doing that, my whole thought process in my head is, "Don't cry."

John Legend 42:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:50 "Don't cry," 'cause I love love so much.

John Legend 42:51 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:51 And all I wanna do is like cry and just like appreciate the moment. I'm like-

John Legend 42:54 I haven't had to officiate-

Jay Shetty 42:55 ... do not cry

John Legend 42:55 ... any weddings.

Jay Shetty 42:56 I was like, "Do not cry."

John Legend 42:56 I, I've sung at quite a few.

Jay Shetty 42:58 Yeah, I could imagine. Yeah.

John Legend 42:59 But, [laughs] but, uh, yeah, I w- I got emotional this weekend, and I think part of it is being a dad too now because- Uh, when I watched, uh, the bride's dad walk her down the aisle, I got super emotional. I was just thinking about my daughter and thinking about m- my son and just thinking about, you know, just what it means to pour all this love into-

Jay Shetty 43:22 Mm-hmm

John Legend 43:22 ... these little people and, and then to watch them grow up and, and experience life and find love. Uh, it was beautiful.

Jay Shetty 43:31 That's amazing.

John Legend 43:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:32 I love that. I love that. And on the... You mentioned grief, and the new, uh, the song Pieces in the new album-

John Legend 43:37 Yeah

Jay Shetty 43:37 ... there's a, there's the beautiful lyric, lyric, "Let your broken heart learn to live in pieces."

John Legend 43:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:42 And I just, I literally just haven't stopped thinking about that-

John Legend 43:46 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 43:46 ... because I think that there's so much about us that's constantly trying to get everything to fit.

John Legend 43:53 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:53 And even with the heart, we're trying to become whole again.

John Legend 43:55 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:55 Like, there's always

Jay Shetty 43:56 that concept. But you're like, "Let your broken heart learn to live in pieces." Like, where did that come from, like that-

John Legend 44:01 Well-

Jay Shetty 44:01 ... idea?

John Legend 44:02 ... the idea of the song is that we never completely shed or forget this trauma that we may go through in life, this loss, this heartbreak. Like, we'll remember it. There'll be times when we'll feel those pangs of, of memory and th- that it'll come back. Um, it doesn't mean you can't heal, it doesn't mean you can't recover, but it does mean that that grief will, will still be a part of who you are, a part of your story. Effectively recovering from that means not forgetting it, not that it didn't happen, but learning to live with it-

Jay Shetty 44:38 Yeah

John Legend 44:38 ... and learning to continue, uh, to live with it and, and, and experience life and joy and pain and all the things that come in life afterwards. Um, continue to, like, live on-

Jay Shetty 44:50 Yeah

John Legend 44:51 ... um, despite the fact that this grief w- won't ever leave you completely.

Jay Shetty 44:55 Yeah. It's almost, it's almost like we're asking the wrong question.

John Legend 44:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 44:58 We're always like, "How do I move on? How do I get over this?"

John Legend 45:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:02 And you're saying, well-

John Legend 45:02 And you're saying you're gonna... I'm saying you're gonna carry it. It's, it's p- it's part of your life now, it's part of your story, part of who you are. Like I said with Chrissy, like, I've seen so much growth through our grief and through our tragedy. It's always gonna be part of who we are, and I'm fine with that. Like, it's part of who we are. It's we carry it with us and it, and it's okay.

Jay Shetty 45:27 Yeah. And that, and I'm sorry for your loss-

John Legend 45:29 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 45:29 ... and I'm, like, you know, that, I, I mean, I don't think there's pretty much anything harder to go through than, than what you went through.

John Legend 45:35 Yeah. I, I've never been through-

Jay Shetty 45:37 Yeah

John Legend 45:37 ... anything harder, but-

Jay Shetty 45:38 Yeah

John Legend 45:38 ... it just means, you know, when you live long enough, you're gonna go through something like that. Uh, and figuring out how to continue to live as you carry that with you-

Jay Shetty 45:48 Yeah

John Legend 45:49 ... is, um, is what the song's really about.

Jay Shetty 45:51 Yeah. And often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences can break people apart, but you gr- you, you focus on growing-

John Legend 45:58 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 45:58 ... closer together.

John Legend 45:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:00 What, what do you think is that difference? Like, you, your values are so clear, I can tell in this interview. I'm like, values of children, of family-

John Legend 46:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 46:06 ... of love, of kindness, of connection. Like, how do you in moments like that, is it that your values just drive you forward? Or like, how do you make sure? Because I think sometimes people just have experiences that derail their everything else that's going right.

John Legend 46:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:21 Yeah?

John Legend 46:21 And I don't know-

Jay Shetty 46:22 Yeah

John Legend 46:22 ... because like, I think part of it is just we are- we were already on a great foundation where we really respected and loved and enjoyed-

Jay Shetty 46:30 Yeah

John Legend 46:30 ... being with each other, respected each other's values, and the ways, you know, the things we saw in each other's character that we fell in love with were still there. But I think you also have to, like, commit to working through pain, you know? Um, and I think we both committed to doing it, like doing the work that we needed to do to get through it.

Jay Shetty 46:51 Yeah. No, I'm happy to hear that.

John Legend 46:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:53 And, you know, my prayers and-

John Legend 46:55 Thank you

Jay Shetty 46:55 ... and good wishes are with you and the family-

John Legend 46:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 46:56 ... because-

John Legend 46:57 Yeah. And I think having already had two kids together was-

Jay Shetty 47:02 Yeah

John Legend 47:02 ... um, definitely helpful because they just bring so much joy into our lives and, and laughter and fun, and they, they're a great focus for our energy.

Jay Shetty 47:14 Yeah.

John Legend 47:14 And so even when you're going through deep grief o- o- on losing a pregnancy, you still have these two beautiful babies that you love.

Jay Shetty 47:21 Yeah.

John Legend 47:21 And I think that was certainly helpful.

Jay Shetty 47:23 Yeah. Now, now the questions are moving into a selfish space-

John Legend 47:26 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 47:26 ... where I'm asking just for me now.

John Legend 47:27 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 47:27 Uh, so how have you managed, like what have... You know, you've obviously had this beautiful relationship. You've got k- you've got two beautiful children that you both love. And, you know, when I think about me and my wife, like, we also spend a lot of time saying, "Look, let's stabilize our relationship first-

John Legend 47:41 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 47:41 ... before we think about having kids."

John Legend 47:43 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:43 Because we don't wanna invite beautiful new souls into a relationship where we're not sure where we're going or, or how we're working together.

John Legend 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:52 How have you managed to be so career-focused and successful and keep a relationship successful with this? Because I find a lot of people, having children can be the most stressful time of their life, right? So-

John Legend 48:04 It's, it's stressful.

Jay Shetty 48:05 Yeah.

John Legend 48:06 W- I mean, first of all, we're very fortunate. We have lots of people around us to help us. We can afford, you know, childcare. We can afford a lot of things that there are plenty of families that can't afford. Having that is no small thing. Like, those, having help, having-

Jay Shetty 48:21 Yeah

John Legend 48:21 ... my mother-in-law around, having, you know, grandparents around to help is like, all these things are very helpful and they alleviate some of the stress and make it easier for parents to balance it. But yeah, I do think you have to be ready, uh, to take on that responsibility. I think, um, a lot of times, you know, it's about figuring out is it the right time in both of your careers to do it. Um, particularly for the woman, like it can be very difficult to figure out when that can be because, uh, particularly in America, we don't have a lot of leave that's available for, uh, maternal or paternal leave that's available for a lot of families. Um, and there's all kinds of, uh, obstacles in the way that m- make it harder for people to, um, be working parents. Uh, and so I think a lot of people are making decisions about when to have kids based on that, and that's a real, like, practical consideration that needs to be figured out, uh, for you to be able to handle it. Because a lot of the stress around parenting is around Having the resources and the childcare that you need, and when that's not right, it can be stressful

Jay Shetty 49:28 Totally. Yeah

John Legend 49:28 ... it can be stressful on your marriage, it can be stressful on so many other things.

Jay Shetty 49:31 Yeah.

John Legend 49:31 And so, um, yeah. It... And, and, and my prescription th- that all those things need to be in order is, like, a hard prescription to fill though because it's like it takes resources, it takes family, it takes, you know, everything being aligned and, and everything's not gonna be perfect, uh, for so many families. And they're still gonna wanna bring a life into the world and, um, and yeah, it's, it's a challenge.

Jay Shetty 49:57 Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think those things changing, I mean, yeah, when I was... I was born and raised in London-

John Legend 50:02 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 50:02 ... and so when I worked there, like, the maternity leave and the paternity leave-

John Legend 50:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 50:05 ... was, was fantastic.

John Legend 50:06 Yeah

Jay Shetty 50:06 I mean, it could be even better, but it was great.

John Legend 50:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:09 It was like at least six months, and then you could extend for another-

John Legend 50:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 50:12 ... six months if you needed it, and it was-

John Legend 50:13 And not to be nerdy-

Jay Shetty 50:14 Very good

John Legend 50:14 ... but, like, the... these are policy things that can-

Jay Shetty 50:17 Absolutely

John Legend 50:17 ... affect people's decisions.

Jay Shetty 50:18 No, be nerdy

John Legend 50:19 And, you know, we're having a lot of, um, conversation around reproductive rights and-

Jay Shetty 50:23 Yeah

John Legend 50:23 ... and whether the state can force people to have kids. And what I think our conservative, uh, fellow citizens should realize is that people sometimes would like to have kids, but they're not in a place to be able to afford it or take care of it. And so if there are policy, um, solutions, like child tax credits, uh, free childcare, um, that would make it more likely that people would choose to have kids. And, um, uh, I think there's so many families that could use that kind of support, um, and I, I feel like one way that we could come together, conservatives and progressives, is say, "If you really believe in this idea that families are important as, like, a foundation for our society, and you wanna, uh, do things to support, uh, people having children in their lives and, and building families, like, one way to do that is make sure they have the resources, uh, to, uh, to make that choice, uh, in a way that they can handle it and their family can handle it."

Jay Shetty 51:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 51:29 Is that one of the areas that you've been focused on, as you were speaking about earlier, with... Has that been an area of focus for you, like-

John Legend 51:34 Well, this is something I think about all the time, so I think about it when it comes to our schools, making sure our schools have the resources that they need, making sure our communities have the resources they need. And it's the... it's kind of the impetus behind my entire political kind of-

Jay Shetty 51:47 Mm-hmm

John Legend 51:48 ... uh, inclination, is how do we make our, uh, society more livable, more loving, more just, more, um, equitable? And how do we, uh, support folks who don't have the resources they need right now? How do we make sure they get those resources?

Jay Shetty 52:05 Yeah.

John Legend 52:05 And so a lot of times my work has been about the criminal justice system, but what I like to do is point out the choices that we make around criminal justice and how they are resource choices as well.

Jay Shetty 52:21 They're more interconnected.

John Legend 52:22 Yes, they're more connected-

Jay Shetty 52:23 It's not, it's not like a silo. Yeah

John Legend 52:24 ... because, because when we spend so much of our societal energy and resources and budgets on policing and locking people up, that necessarily, uh, precludes us from investing that money in other things. And so my advocacy work has really been around, let's invest in these things that are edifying, that are building, that are productive, that are loving, that are just, and not invest as much as we have in the things that are more destructive and more about the state monopolizing force and violence, um, through policing and jailing people.

Jay Shetty 53:05 Yeah. Thank you so much for going nerdy on us. It was good. We, we had to.

John Legend 53:08 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:08 Like, so... No, it's important.

John Legend 53:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 53:10 Uh, you know, I, I think it's... I think it is important to see the interconnectedness of a, a value of, you know, family man, children, and then how that actually scales up to-

John Legend 53:20 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 53:20 ... an economy and a society-

John Legend 53:21 Yeah

Jay Shetty 53:21 ... because we can have these in our small units-

John Legend 53:24 Yeah

Jay Shetty 53:25 ... but it needs to change at a-

John Legend 53:27 And I get into arguments, you know, with, with friends of mine who I, I'm close with and, you know, they'll, they'll see these news stories about crime going up and robberies going up and, and, and, and they'll always kind of default to, "Well, we just gotta punish people more. Like, make them scared to do these kinds of things." And what I'm always thinking about is, well, how do we create a society where f- just less of that is happening? How do we create a society where people are healthier, they have the resources they need, they're not, um, homeless, they're not, um, addicted to drugs, and when they are, they're being treated and not punished? Like, how do we create a soci- society like that? And then a lot of these issues with violence and with, uh, property crimes and all these other things, they'll go down if we're investing in the kind of preventative measures that would, uh, make us healthier in general.

Jay Shetty 54:20 Yeah, absolutely. You were speaking about, you know, the journeys of people, like from everyone that you were homeschooled around or in your community.

John Legend 54:28 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 54:28 Like, the journey that you've taken is, I'm guessing, obviously that's very unique. It's very different. Uh, when you, when you

Jay Shetty 54:35 look back on your life now, it's like, A, what's there, like, what keeps you going? And when you look back, what do you look back at and go, "That was really special, and that was beautiful, and, and that was something that I'll always cherish"?

John Legend 54:48 What keeps me going? Well, part of it is just the joy I get from creating new things. Um, it's a very, like, amazing sense of gratification, uh, that you get when you walk into a room and nothing exists except, you know, loose ideas in your head, and then a few hours later, like, you walk out with this new thing that exists.

Jay Shetty 55:11 Yeah, yeah.

John Legend 55:11 It's a song. And, like, that song could be the one that changes your life. It could mean something to all kinds of other people. I, I just, uh, at the wedding I [laughs] went to, one of the weddings I went to this weekend, some guy said, "I went to your show, and it actually saved my marriage." And, like, I could be writing that song that saved someone's marriage, uh, tomorrow. And the fact that I get to go to work and create something brand new that didn't exist before is such a joy, and I truly Like, I wanna do it all the time [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:43 Yeah, I love that.

John Legend 55:44 That keeps me going.

Jay Shetty 55:45 Yeah.

John Legend 55:45 And then, um, being on stage is really exciting for me and fun. I love the connection I feel with the audience. I love when the show just feels like everybody's clicking on all cylinders, we're doing this together. We've got band members, dancers, singers, everybody came together to put this show on, and we get it right, and we feel the energy from the crowd, and we feel the love from the crowd, and we're giving it to them, they're giving it back. And we feel this connection and this chemistry, this energy that we're all creating together. I love it. I truly love it, and I wanna do it as long as-

Jay Shetty 56:18 [laughs]

John Legend 56:19 ... as long as people will listen to me [laughs]

Jay Shetty 56:20 [laughs] I, I think, I think that's gonna be a long time, so.

John Legend 56:24 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 56:24 Well, well, who's someone that... You spoke about collaborations.

Jay Shetty 56:27 Who's someone that's no longer with us that you would have loved to have collaborated with in person, or that you think could have, like, brought something out of you that could have-

John Legend 56:35 Nina Simone.

Jay Shetty 56:36 Oh.

John Legend 56:36 I'm a big Nina Simone fan.

Jay Shetty 56:37 Yeah.

John Legend 56:37 I named my daughter Luna Simone after her. And, and I, um, have always loved her artistry, and I would just love to jam with her. It would be so fun. She's such a great musician and has such a cool approach to arranging songs. She always did s- such interesting covers of songs too. Like, she would do, like, the definitive cover of so many songs. Just because her musicianship and her point of view is so interesting, I would love to just soak in that for a little while.

Jay Shetty 57:06 Yeah.

John Legend 57:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 57:06 And what about someone who's alive that you haven't collaborated with yet, or someone that you find inspiring in any field of music or any, any-

John Legend 57:12 Uh, Kendrick Lamar I love.

Jay Shetty 57:13 Oh, cool. Okay.

John Legend 57:14 I just went to see his show the-

Jay Shetty 57:15 That hasn't happened yet? Like, wow.

John Legend 57:16 No.

Jay Shetty 57:16 Yeah.

John Legend 57:17 He's... Like, I've worked with almost every rapper in-

Jay Shetty 57:19 Yeah

John Legend 57:19 ... in history [laughs]

Jay Shetty 57:20 Yeah, exactly.

John Legend 57:20 But, uh-

Jay Shetty 57:21 That's cool

John Legend 57:21 ... Kendrick, I'm truly a fan of, and I went to go see his show this weekend, and, uh, love his new album, love all of his albums. I just think the level of artistry and care that he puts into everything is just so impressive. He's one of my favorite artists in any genre right now. I think he's m- just incredible.

Jay Shetty 57:39 I love that. When, when you're working on an album, like, how much... Because you're someone who, who works consistently on an album for a long amount of time before it comes out, right? Like, there's not always new music all the time.

Jay Shetty 57:51 What kind of... In that creative process-

John Legend 57:54 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 57:54 ... like, how do you stay inspired in the ups and downs and the ebbs and flows of a long creative process? Which is rare nowadays. Like, when you think about someone like Kendrick, right?

John Legend 58:02 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 58:02 Like, everyone talks about Kendrick as someone who'll work on an album for a couple of years, which used to be the norm, and it's, uh-

John Legend 58:07 Yeah. It's still the norm for me.

Jay Shetty 58:09 Yeah.

John Legend 58:09 Like, I-

Jay Shetty 58:09 Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. So-

John Legend 58:10 Yeah. I feel like making an album is about a two-year process for me, and I try to put them out every two or three years. But, uh, you're not always gonna be inspired every day.

Jay Shetty 58:18 Yeah.

John Legend 58:18 But there's always another day. And, you know, most albums, you know, are around an hour or a little bit less, a little bit more. I did a double album this time. It's a hour 20 minutes.

Jay Shetty 58:27 Yeah.

John Legend 58:28 But, like, over a two-year period, I'm gonna have enough inspiration to make an hour [laughs]

Jay Shetty 58:33 [laughs]

John Legend 58:33 You know?

Jay Shetty 58:34 Yeah, yeah. That's fair.

John Legend 58:35 Like, uh, so there'll be days when, you know, you don't feel it. And, um, like I said, one of my best ways of combating any kind of writer's block is having other energy around me and other creative people in the room so that I feel like c- I can get inspired by, uh, things that are outside of my own head.

Jay Shetty 58:53 Yeah.

John Legend 58:53 Um, and so I think that's important. Scheduling the time to write, I think, is important, rather than just kind of waiting around for inspiration randomly to hit.

Jay Shetty 59:03 Yeah, structure.

John Legend 59:03 Because you need... I think you need to actively summon that, uh, rather than just kind of, uh, hoping it'll, uh, gonna knock you over the head every once in a while.

Jay Shetty 59:14 Yeah.

John Legend 59:14 Um, you, you need to actively summon it. And so for me, scheduling the time is important too.

Jay Shetty 59:19 Yeah. Do, do you have any, like, weird quirks or habits of, to help summon that moment? Or, like, some kind of things that you need around you, or any items or things you need to see, or the... Or is it more, like, just scheduling, planning, structure?

John Legend 59:30 And then you, you'll want the inspiration to come and, like, it could come from a movie you saw or just a line from the movie. Uh, inspiration could come from a song you listen to in the car on the way to the studio. Um, inspiration could come from just a random conversation you had where just this line, like, stuck out to you. And then, like I said before, a lot of it's through collaboration. So a producer may come in, um, and he have a track, or she'll have a track, and play it for you, and it's just music, but it, it speaks to you, and you'll feel something from it and then build a song from that. Um, and so those are different ways the inspiration comes.

Jay Shetty 1:00:09 Yeah. What, what's been the difference about s- the first day when you stepped into a studio, like, to now when you step in? Like, what were the emotions and the feelings then? What's changed? What's stayed the same?

John Legend 1:00:20 Well, I, I think I have a better understanding of m- what I wanna do now when I go in the studio. I think, um, before I just had less creative confidence, I think, and I've earned it through just work.

Jay Shetty 1:00:34 Time. Time.

John Legend 1:00:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:35 Yeah.

John Legend 1:00:35 Like, time, work, repetition. Like, I've just written a lot, and when I walk in the studio now, I just feel like I know how to write a song. I know how to write a really good song, and I just need to, like, work on it. I need to spend the time, spend the energy, and do all those things to get inspired, like I said before, and then I'll figure it out.

Jay Shetty 1:00:55 Yeah. John, you've been so, uh, gracious with your time and energy.

John Legend 1:00:58 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:58 I mean, like, I have loved this conversation. It's been-

John Legend 1:01:01 This is fun

Jay Shetty 1:01:01 ... we've gone everywhere. Like, we've just-

John Legend 1:01:03 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:01:03 ... we talked about relationships. We talked about-

John Legend 1:01:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:01:05 ... children. We talked about your childhood. Like, it's been so beautiful. We, we end

Jay Shetty 1:01:08 every episode with two segments.

John Legend 1:01:09 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 1:01:10 Uh, one's a Fast Five quick questions, so one word to one sentence answers maximum.

John Legend 1:01:15 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:01:15 Uh, and then I'll tell you about the other one. So John Legend, these are your Fast Five.

John Legend 1:01:18 All right.

Jay Shetty 1:01:19 Uh, question number one: What's the best advice you've ever received?

John Legend 1:01:22 I love Quincy Jones' advice. He says, "Steal from the best."

Jay Shetty 1:01:25 Nice.

John Legend 1:01:26 That means, you know, be open to being influenced and, like, take some of that [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:30 Yeah. That's a great answer.

John Legend 1:01:31 Like, uh, listen to different artists, uh, that you love and, like, think about how to incorporate their artistry into what you do. And I think the more... I know this is longer than a, a sentence.

Jay Shetty 1:01:42 It's good. It's, it's a good answer.

John Legend 1:01:43 But I think the more-

Jay Shetty 1:01:44 Yeah, yeah

John Legend 1:01:44 ... the more you do it-

Jay Shetty 1:01:45 Yeah

John Legend 1:01:45 ... you just start to develop who you are- But it's informed and inspired by all your influences.

Jay Shetty 1:01:51 Yeah, love that answer. You're, you're allowed. It's good.

John Legend 1:01:53 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:54 You're allowed to go over. Uh, question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

John Legend 1:01:57 [laughs] I, I don't know. I don't really catalog bad advice.

Jay Shetty 1:02:02 [laughs]

John Legend 1:02:03 Uh, one thing we laughed about was, uh, Kanye didn't like the title Ordinary People-

Jay Shetty 1:02:10 Oh

John Legend 1:02:10 ... for a song.

Jay Shetty 1:02:11 Wow. Yeah, yeah, of course. I remember that song, yeah.

John Legend 1:02:12 He changed his mind after a while. [laughs] Yeah, at first he was like-

Jay Shetty 1:02:16 But it went out as Ordinary People

John Legend 1:02:16 ... he, he's like, he's like, "Can you come up with a better, uh..." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:20 But it went out that way. It never got changed. Did it get changed?

John Legend 1:02:22 No, it never got changed.

Jay Shetty 1:02:22 Yeah, yeah, it never got changed. Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

John Legend 1:02:24 Yes. [laughs] It never got changed. But it was his i- he was like, "Can you come up with something better to say than that?" But, uh, uh, eventually he fell in love with it and ended up directing the video for it.

Jay Shetty 1:02:34 Yeah.

John Legend 1:02:34 And, and, uh, and, uh, it became, you know, obviously a very important song at the beginning of my career.

Jay Shetty 1:02:40 Yeah.

John Legend 1:02:40 But, uh, we always thought it was funny that he was like, "I'm not sold on this Ordinary People idea."

Jay Shetty 1:02:44 [laughs]

John Legend 1:02:45 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:46 I love that.

John Legend 1:02:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:47 Uh, question number three, uh, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

John Legend 1:02:52 Oh, I don't know. Well, I mean, we just go through different phases in life, and I think I wanted e- like, a certain kind of freedom, uh, when I was younger, um, when I was a bachelor. And you know, y- you, like, treasure this kind of freedom and living, like, without as many commitments. But then you fall in love, and you have kids with someone, and then, like, the commitment and the, and the responsibility is like s- is like, is life-defining in so many ways. And, uh, you don't value that, that kind of freedom that you thought you wanted before.

Jay Shetty 1:03:31 Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. We never, never had that answer before. That's, that's a special one. All right, question number four. The podcast is called On Purpose, so how would you define your current purpose in life?

John Legend 1:03:41 My purpose is to bring love into the world. Um, I, it's so much the core of who I am, um, artistically, but also politically. I think love is... Like, I'm not religious. Love is my religion. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:03:55 Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. And fifth and final question for the Fast Five is, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

John Legend 1:04:03 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:03 [laughs]

John Legend 1:04:04 Oof. One law.

Jay Shetty 1:04:06 We ask this to every guest. Uh-

John Legend 1:04:07 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:07 You're getting asked the same questions as every guest.

John Legend 1:04:11 Oh. Well, I-

Jay Shetty 1:04:13 One habit, one rule

John Legend 1:04:13 ... I wanna go back to love one another.

Jay Shetty 1:04:15 Yes. Great.

John Legend 1:04:15 Let's love each other.

Jay Shetty 1:04:16 Keep it simple.

John Legend 1:04:17 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:04:18 Yeah.

John Legend 1:04:18 That's very Christian. That, that's like the-

Jay Shetty 1:04:20 [laughs]

John Legend 1:04:20 ... part of our, our, Jesus' uh, two commandments were that you would love God and that you would love your neighbor as you loved yourself. And if you think about that idea of loving your neighbor as yourself, um, it's a pretty powerful idea.

Jay Shetty 1:04:35 Absolutely.

John Legend 1:04:35 And if that were to guide our behaviors and our politics and, and, and just the way we treated each other, it would be a, you know, pretty good world to live in.

Jay Shetty 1:04:45 Absolutely.

John Legend 1:04:46 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:46 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 1:04:47 All right. And these, these ones are gonna be shorter. This is, uh, a segment called The Many Sides to Us. And so again, this can be one word for each one, literally one word.

John Legend 1:04:56 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:04:57 So what is a word to describe what someone would say about you, meeting you for the first time?

John Legend 1:05:02 Calm. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:03 Definitely.

John Legend 1:05:03 I'm very-

Jay Shetty 1:05:03 You were very calm when you came in today.

John Legend 1:05:05 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:05 I would, I would have to agree with that. We walked over, you were very calm. I agree.

John Legend 1:05:08 Yeah, I don't have a lot of, like, highs and lows.

Jay Shetty 1:05:11 Yeah.

John Legend 1:05:11 Uh, I'm very even-

Jay Shetty 1:05:13 Yeah

John Legend 1:05:13 ... keel through life. Uh, which can be frustrating, like, as a partner. Like, Chrissy would like for me sometimes to be a little more dynamic. But, but I think, you know, it's also like, it's a gift and a curse, because when you're going through, like, tough times and you need stability and you need a rock around you, I can be a rock. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:33 [laughs] Well, that's why you need the humor and the spontaneity and the-

John Legend 1:05:35 Exactly. That's why we're good together. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:37 Yeah, yeah. That's my wife, too. My wife's the spontaneous one.

John Legend 1:05:40 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:05:40 I'm, I'm the even-keel one.

John Legend 1:05:41 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:05:41 So that works for us. All right, question number two, what's a word to describe what someone would describe you that knows you very well?

John Legend 1:05:48 I think, honestly, so mu- much of how my friends will, you know, describe me is that I'm an even-

Jay Shetty 1:05:54 Yeah

John Legend 1:05:54 ... keel person, that I'm a calming presence, and that I don't have a lot of highs and lows. So I think people that first meet me think that.

Jay Shetty 1:06:01 That's good, though.

John Legend 1:06:01 But people that know me for a long time think that as well.

Jay Shetty 1:06:04 Oh, that's good.

John Legend 1:06:04 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:04 That's, that's not a bad thing. All right.

John Legend 1:06:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:06:05 Question number three, what is a word y- [laughs] this time you can't say the same answer.

John Legend 1:06:10 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:06:10 'Cause you're gonna have the same answer. But the first two made sense. What is a word you'd use to describe yourself?

John Legend 1:06:16 Creative. I love, I love to create, and I love putting new things out into the world.

Jay Shetty 1:06:22 Yeah. What's a word that someone that maybe doesn't agree with you would say about you?

John Legend 1:06:27 Well, let me think. Let me go to-

Jay Shetty 1:06:28 Or they don't vibe with you

John Legend 1:06:29 ... let me go to my Twitter mentions. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:31 [laughs]

John Legend 1:06:33 Well, I think-

Jay Shetty 1:06:34 Yeah

John Legend 1:06:34 ... people that don't know me-

Jay Shetty 1:06:35 Yeah, people that don't know you, yeah

John Legend 1:06:36 ... you know, they, they, they know me, you know, they know that I call myself John Legend. That was an a- assumed stage name. I wasn't born that. So they probably think I'm pretty arrogant. Um, you know, I don't think I am, but you know, I could give off that, uh, sense that, you know, I'm pretty arrogant.

Jay Shetty 1:06:53 Right. Okay.

John Legend 1:06:54 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:06:54 All right, and question number five, the last one, what's a word that you're trying to embody?

John Legend 1:06:58 Love.

Jay Shetty 1:06:58 Love. [laughs]

John Legend 1:06:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:07:00 I love it.

John Legend 1:07:00 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:07:01 John Legend, everyone. Uh, the MasterClass on songwriting, John Legend Teaches Songwriting, is available right now. I hope you go and subscribe to MasterClass. Genuinely, it is a phenomenal platform, and you get access to all these incredible thinkers, leaders, teachers, guides, uh, when you sign up. As I said, I've been a subscriber since Bob Igers, and I cannot wait. I, I... Can I become a good songwriter, John? That is the question. Even though-

John Legend 1:07:26 That's a good question, and I feel like-

Jay Shetty 1:07:27 I did grade five theory

John Legend 1:07:28 ... I feel like there has to be-

Jay Shetty 1:07:29 I did- [laughs]

John Legend 1:07:30 ... some level of, um, foundational musical understanding-

Jay Shetty 1:07:34 Yeah

John Legend 1:07:35 ... um, to use my class. But I, I think if you have that, it can be really helpful.

Jay Shetty 1:07:39 Well, I did grade five theory.

John Legend 1:07:40 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:07:40 I played piano up to grade four.

John Legend 1:07:42 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:07:42 And I used to play percussion, but I haven't done it since I was 12. So, [laughs]

John Legend 1:07:45 And you may need, like, a collaborator, like an-

Jay Shetty 1:07:48 Yeah

John Legend 1:07:48 ... instrumentalist, like a guitarist or a pianist with you to help you kind of have some music theory, because I can't... In my class, I don't teach you a lot of, like, how to play the instrument.

Jay Shetty 1:07:58 Of course, of course. Yeah, yeah.

John Legend 1:07:59 But I t- I teach you how to take the knowledge that you have and build a song from it.

Jay Shetty 1:08:04 Absolutely. I love it. John, well, I hope we get to bump into each other again. This has been-

John Legend 1:08:07 Absolutely, Jay

Jay Shetty 1:08:08 ... a real treat

John Legend 1:08:08 ... a true pleasure. True pleasure.

Jay Shetty 1:08:09 Thank you, man. Thank you so much for your time and energy.

John Legend 1:08:11 Great to meet you.

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 Great to meet you.

John Legend 1:08:12 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:08:12 And everyone who's been listening and watching back at home or wherever you are, if you're on the move, make sure that you tag John and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok. Let us know what stood out to you, what you learned, what you gained. Maybe there were some amazing experiences that you didn't know anything about. I love seeing what you take away, what you learn. Make sure you share that with both of us, uh, and I'll see you at the next episode. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.