KHLOE KARDASHIAN: My Side that NOBODY Knows (Truth Behind Headlines, Divorce, Co-Parenting)

1. 0:00 – 3:33

   Intro

   1. KKKhloé Kardashian0:00

      God, I've been through so many things that at this point I would rather not feel than feel, because feeling is too much for me to handle. All right, we're ready. I am Khloé Kardashian. Khloé Kardashian, everybody. Khloé Kardashian. [dramatic music] There would be times that I was like, "I don't even wanna go out to the grocery store, 'cause I feel like I know what they're thinking about me." And that was scary to me, because I've never been in a dark place for that long.

   2. JSJay Shetty0:32

      You've always taken care of others. Have you discovered anything about why you've seen yourself take on that role in so many relationships in your life? How do you even find the courage to trust again? The number one health and wellness podcast.

   3. KKKhloé Kardashian0:49

      Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:53

      [laughs] Khloé, welcome back to On Purpose.

   5. KKKhloé Kardashian0:59

      I'm so excited to be here.

   6. JSJay Shetty1:01

      You came on the podcast in 2019.

   7. KKKhloé Kardashian1:04

      Okay, that's crazy.

   8. JSJay Shetty1:05

      Which is six years ago.

   9. KKKhloé Kardashian1:06

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty1:06

       We just launched at the beginning of that year, and you were such an important part of helping the show get to where it is today.

   11. KKKhloé Kardashian1:15

       Thank you.

   12. JSJay Shetty1:15

       So the kind words you were just saying to me a moment ago about the show are so much because of you.

   13. KKKhloé Kardashian1:21

       Well, thank you.

   14. JSJay Shetty1:22

       And I'm so grateful to you, your beautiful and wonderful family, who've just been so kind to me over the years, your mom, who I adore. Kendall and Kim, who've both been amazing guests on the show, and people I've got to spend time with off-screen as well, and it's just you've all been so wonderful to me, so I'm deeply grateful and deeply touched, welling with love.

   15. KKKhloé Kardashian1:41

       Well, we all adore you. We really, really do. And you just have this energy about you that everyone feels safe in talking with you, and that's a testament to the success of your podcast, obviously. But everything that you do, it's so from the intensity of your soul, and it's beautiful and you don't even realize that you're being recorded when talking with you.

   16. JSJay Shetty2:01

       [laughs]

   17. KKKhloé Kardashian2:01

       So yes, I'm so honored to be asked to be here again.

   18. JSJay Shetty2:05

       Oh, thank you. And, and the last time we were together we were on your podcast-

   19. KKKhloé Kardashian2:08

       Yes

   20. JSJay Shetty2:08

       ... which I'm so excited about. I can't wait to talk more about it.

   21. KKKhloé Kardashian2:11

       I cannot even believe that you... I, yes, I am so grateful that you agreed to do that, but you were my second guest, and the fact that you did that and did it just, "Sure, of course," like you never asked questions. I'm like, "This is brand new."

   22. JSJay Shetty2:24

       [laughs]

   23. KKKhloé Kardashian2:24

       "We've never launched or aired yet. Thank you." So like, it was... You're so generous and so kind.

   24. JSJay Shetty2:28

       No, I loved it. It was so much fun speaking to you, and you using your platform to talk about important topics and themes and vulnerability. And then my favorite thing is we were in India-

   25. KKKhloé Kardashian2:38

       Yes

   26. JSJay Shetty2:38

       ... just around this, like, kind of coming around this time last year.

   27. KKKhloé Kardashian2:42

       Yes.

   28. JSJay Shetty2:43

       And being with you in India and getting to take you to the monastery that I stayed at for some time, and-

   29. KKKhloé Kardashian2:47

       What an experience

   30. JSJay Shetty2:48

       ... it was so beautiful to have that with you. And so thank you for letting me have that experience with you as well.
2. 3:33 – 5:17

   Aging Doesn’t Have to Be Scary

   1. JSJay Shetty3:33

      this week on the episode, when we're recording this at least, it's your 40th birthday, and that was soon after you got back from India last year.

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian3:41

      Yes.

   3. JSJay Shetty3:41

      And I wanted to ask you, like, what it felt like turning 40.

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian3:46

      I know so many people dread turning 40 or just getting older, and I am the complete opposite. I probably talked about my excitement in turning 40 for at least three years prior to turning 40. You know, my 30s were challenging for me, as I really do think when I reflect back that they are challenging for most people. I think your 30s is that, especially for women, because that's sort of when people feel like, oh, their biological clock is ticking, they should be married or have kids by this age. And the truth is, people are getting married a little later. They are having kids later in life. And a lot of women are focusing on what their careers should be, and so they're sort of putting the family stuff on the back burner. At least that's what I've noticed.

   5. JSJay Shetty4:33

      Yeah.

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian4:33

      And for me, I had my kids. I had not so many great relationships in my 30s and in my younger 20s, and, but a lot of career stuff wasn't going the way that I envisioned and hoped and planned. And I really just wanted to get out of my 30s.

   7. JSJay Shetty4:52

      [laughs]

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian4:52

      I was like, "I feel good. I have my kids."

   9. JSJay Shetty4:54

      Yeah.

   10. KKKhloé Kardashian4:54

       And that's my wonderful, beautiful takeaway. And, and still, I also do believe that any of those experiences, they really are formative. And no matter how traumatic and horrible they are, you don't think that in the moment, but later on you do get to self-reflect and be like, "Okay, I, I needed that for some reason." But going into my 40s, I was skipping and leaping and hopping into

3. 5:17 – 6:23

   Visualizing Your Life in Your 40s

   1. KKKhloé Kardashian5:17

      them.

   2. JSJay Shetty5:17

      How did you imagine your 40s were going to look when you were younger? And now that you're moving into them, how close are they? How different are those visions?

   3. KKKhloé Kardashian5:25

      So I don't know if you've ever seen this meme, but it's a meme of The Golden Girls, and I think those ladies were in their 40s or early 50s when they're ushered away somewhere in Florida, uh, you know, have to live together 'cause they're so old, and then they do side-by-sides with, like, a bunch of women in their 40s now, beautiful women. And the comparison, you're like, "Why was I so afraid?"

   4. JSJay Shetty5:49

      Yeah.

   5. KKKhloé Kardashian5:49

      But the representation that we had when we were younger was very different than what the 40s are or 50s now. I mean, Gabrielle Union, I, I don't exactly know how old everybody is, but Jennifer Lopez, you see all of these gorgeous women and you're likeWait, I think they're 40s, 50s. What am I afraid of?

   6. JSJay Shetty6:11

      Mm-hmm.

   7. KKKhloé Kardashian6:11

      And it's not so much even about the aesthetic, it's the liveliness that these women and the passion that these women have for life that you're like, "That doesn't seem so bad."

   8. JSJay Shetty6:21

      Yeah.

   9. KKKhloé Kardashian6:22

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty6:22

       I, I think you're

4. 6:23 – 7:39

   It’s Okay to Be Unsure

   1. JSJay Shetty6:23

      so right. What you just said now about how everyone has a tough 30s to 40s, I think it's really interesting. When you're going, in your 20s to 30s, you have a really high expectation, and then you kind of get brought down to reality.

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian6:37

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JSJay Shetty6:37

      I think everyone has a tougher 20s than they imagined. You're having maybe-

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian6:42

      The pressure

   5. JSJay Shetty6:43

      ... the pressure of what it should be-

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian6:44

      Right

   7. JSJay Shetty6:44

      ... the pressure of starting work, the pressure of a relationship.

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian6:48

      But you put these kids in college, and they're supposed to, "What is your major? What is your minor?" And then if you go awry from that when you graduate, it's like, "Then what did I pay for?" But how many times have you changed your mind about something-

   9. JSJay Shetty7:01

      Too many

   10. KKKhloé Kardashian7:01

       ... in life? Right. And so have I. So yes, I believe in college. I believe in that if that's the right step for you. But I also think it's, people need to know how okay it is to not necessarily know what you wanna do when you're 20 years old.

   11. JSJay Shetty7:18

       Absolutely. Such great advice. I mean, I look at it, in my 20s I first became a monk. I then left and worked in consulting. I then left and did media, and then since then I've done video content, podcasts, wrote books.

   12. KKKhloé Kardashian7:32

       Right.

   13. JSJay Shetty7:32

       Like, just things that I would never have imagined. If someone told me at 18, "Jay, this is what your life's going to look like"-

   14. KKKhloé Kardashian7:38

       Right

   15. JSJay Shetty7:38

       ... I wouldn't have believed them.

5. 7:39 – 9:35

   How Maturity Brings Stability

   1. KKKhloé Kardashian7:39

      Yeah.

   2. JSJay Shetty7:39

      And I think something you said that was really important, that when you get into your 30s, there's almost like this grounding effect as well where you start to ask yourself, "What do I really want in life?"

   3. KKKhloé Kardashian7:48

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JSJay Shetty7:49

      But as you get into your 40s, you're almost living that, of like what's really important, what, what really is my priority? Am I clear about what I want? Whereas in your 20s you don't know, and you, how could you?

   5. KKKhloé Kardashian7:59

      You don't know, and you also have that arrogance in your 20s-

   6. JSJay Shetty8:02

      [laughs]

   7. KKKhloé Kardashian8:02

      ... that no one can tell you anything.

   8. JSJay Shetty8:04

      Yeah.

   9. KKKhloé Kardashian8:04

      But people have to go through that. Like, I don't, I get it, and I also get now when adults were like, ugh, they sort of roll their eyes at somebody in their 20s. And it's rare that most people in that age are so definitive at what they wanna do. And if they are, great, and I, that is just this old soul-ness in them-

   10. JSJay Shetty8:23

       Yeah

   11. KKKhloé Kardashian8:23

       ... I would say. But also when, I've, I've only been in my 40s for a few months.

   12. JSJay Shetty8:28

       [laughs]

   13. KKKhloé Kardashian8:28

       But it's crazy how quickly that you're sort of like, you feel so solid in who you are, or the things that maybe made you insecure or doubt yourself, you sort of just let it go.

   14. JSJay Shetty8:42

       Wow.

   15. KKKhloé Kardashian8:43

       And I don't know what that switch exactly is. I just know that it's that grounding term that you said. You feel so solid within yourself, and you're like, "It's okay."

   16. JSJay Shetty8:54

       Mm.

   17. KKKhloé Kardashian8:54

       And I know life is gonna work out. I know everything is gonna come how I envision it, because I have that drive and desire to. But I've stopped limiting myself to it had to be done before I turned 40.

   18. JSJay Shetty9:08

       Yeah.

   19. KKKhloé Kardashian9:08

       When I was younger, society definitely put on me, or not just me, I think a lot of people. But now life expectancy is longer. I think we prioritize our health from within so much more. And people realize, okay, it's not all about just having babies and getting married by the time you're 23, and then just coasting the rest or figuring it out. Now it's like, let's figure out what we really want at our core.

   20. JSJay Shetty9:32

       Yeah.

   21. KKKhloé Kardashian9:33

       And then the rest will sort of unfold.

6. 9:35 – 12:09

   Why We’re Always Chasing More

   1. JSJay Shetty9:35

      Yeah. What would you say, because I feel like we have such an amazing community of young women and women who listen to this show, and so many of them I know are thinking, "Gee, I'm 30 years old. I'm not married. There's so much pressure. I'm not in a serious relationship." What words of advice, wisdom, insight, or lessons would you share with them in that period of their life where the societal pressure, the parental pressure, the personal pressure, the pressure of what's happening all around them on Instagram, TikTok, social media-

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian10:06

      Yeah

   3. JSJay Shetty10:07

      ... how, how should they think about navigating that?

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian10:09

      Number one, and it's something I had to learn myself, is comparison is the thief of joy. It takes everything out of anything that you're doing if you're constantly comparing what you're doing to somebody else, because somebody else is only showing you their highlight reel anyway. We have to remember that what we're doing is probably, someone's looking at us and they're like, "Damn, that's an amazing highlight reel. Like, I want that." But we're so conditioned now to constantly want more and more and never be satisfied. That makes me sad for my kids, and I always try... I have so many nieces and nephews, and three of them are the exact same age. It's, uh, my daughter and Kylie's daughter and Kim's daughter. And sometimes that's challenging because they each want the same thing all the time. And I, I sort of like that, 'cause I like to say, like, "Not, just 'cause someone has that doesn't mean you get to have that." And those are smaller lessons, but you learn that later in life so much bigger.

   5. JSJay Shetty11:09

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian11:10

      And you can be inspired by others or motivated by others, but the jealousy or the comparison is something that we or I have had to even retrain my brain to not always look at someone and be like, "Well, why don't I have that?"

   7. JSJay Shetty11:24

      Mm.

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian11:25

      Or, "How can I get..." Like, it, you, it should be more from a motivational way as opposed to an envious way. But I also think, do you wanna be married and have kids because that's what you were taught as a kid that you're supposed to do? Do you want that and a career, and which one do you wanna have come first? And do you not want a career, and do you just wanna be a mother? Like, those, whatever the answer is is all okay-

   9. JSJay Shetty11:48

      Yeah

   10. KKKhloé Kardashian11:49

       ... because it's your life. But sometimes I think that we live a life so much for other people, and we forget to check in with ourselves. And it's okay if you had a-A desire in your 20s, and now you're in your 30s and you're like, "Wait, I actually don't want that anymore"

   11. JSJay Shetty12:05

       Mm

   12. KKKhloé Kardashian12:05

       ... and I changed my direction, and it's okay to admit that to yourself.

   13. JSJay Shetty12:08

       Yeah.

7. 12:09 – 13:55

   The Truth About Success

   1. JSJay Shetty12:09

      I, I think you've raised so many important points there. One of them that resonates with me is I always say to people the only way you can purify envy is study.

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian12:18

      Mm.

   3. JSJay Shetty12:18

      And what I mean by that is when you study someone's success, you get motivated by it.

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian12:22

      Right.

   5. JSJay Shetty12:22

      When you envy someone's success, you get demotivated by it-

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian12:25

      Right

   7. JSJay Shetty12:25

      ... because you feel it's not for me. I'm not gonna get that. When you study it, when you look at how they started, when you look at the challenges they've gone through, when you look at the ups and the downs, all of a sudden you realize you get so much inspiration-

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian12:37

      Right

   9. JSJay Shetty12:37

      ... that I can do it, too.

   10. KKKhloé Kardashian12:38

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JSJay Shetty12:39

       Right? That that person's had a very normal human journey, and maybe I just don't see that because I'm only seeing the success. I'm not seeing the story.

   12. KKKhloé Kardashian12:47

       And I think I get a very interesting take on that because I do that with me and my sisters. And so when I look at all of my siblings, I know so in-depthly also their struggles and how many, how many companies we've all started that have failed, where so many people that you look up to, you don't hear every little thing until they're at the top and then they're telling you this was how they got here, their success story. And sometimes you're like, "Okay, but you're here now, and it still seems unobtainable." But for me, I do get... I'm very lucky for my positioning, 'cause even though I see my siblings and I see all their success now, I remember how much stuff we tried to do and, you know, throw spaghetti on the wall and it just didn't stick.

   13. JSJay Shetty13:37

       [laughs]

   14. KKKhloé Kardashian13:38

       But I don't know if outsiders would see that looking within our family all the time. I think if you can, you know, go back and Google back 2008, whatever, you'll be like, "Oh, they did that? And where, where's that company?" And so everyone has their failures, but I wouldn't even call them failures.

8. 13:55 – 16:42

   Practice Self-Intentionality

   1. JSJay Shetty13:55

      What's the biggest lesson you're taking into your 40s, something that you've been carrying with you into this time?

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian14:01

      I talk to myself a lot. So I like to be really intentional, and I like- I understand and I teach my daughter that happiness and positivity and all of that is a choice. And so what I like to is be very intentional with my days, my jobs, the things that I choose to do and spend time on, and not in a, like, smug sort of way. But I've, I wake up a lot and I'm like, "Ugh, I'm just in either a melancholy mood," or I'm, woke up on the wrong side of the bed, I'm not a nice person today. And I'll look myself in the mirror and I will have a back and forth talk with myself, and I'm like, "No, I'm happy today. I'm choosing happy." But so much of that came really when I was in my 40s, maybe my last 39th year, because I realized how much of a dark cloud I felt was surrounding me in my 30s. But yes, things happened to me, but it's also my responsibility to choose how I respond to those things. And I think because of social media maybe as well, that I let so much of the noise make me even sadder or make me feel like I was less worthy, less of a person, that I needed to be so crumbled and embarrassed about what happened to me. Where yes, I probably would have had those feelings, but maybe not as long as I did-

   3. JSJay Shetty15:26

      Mm

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian15:27

      ... because that narration was going on for so long. And so I finally was sort of like, "Screw every, every dark noise I'm hearing, and I'm going to say every day, no, I am worthy. I'm worthy of a happy, beautiful, positive day," being intentional in that way. And it's funny, when I wake my kids up every day, I'm like, "We're gonna have a happy day because we choose to have a happy day." But embedding in them those small little affirmations, I mean, I'm 40 and I need it.

   5. JSJay Shetty15:56

      Yeah. [laughs]

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian15:56

      So, you know? I think it's a good thing.

   7. JSJay Shetty15:58

      Yeah. I, I, I couldn't agree with you more. I always say to myself, like, I can't make... Like, the day doesn't have to be great to me-

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian16:06

      Mm-hmm

   9. JSJay Shetty16:06

      ... but I can make the day a great day.

   10. KKKhloé Kardashian16:09

       Right.

   11. JSJay Shetty16:09

       Because there could be ups and downs, there could be someone says something, someone could be mean to me, someone could cut me off in traffic, someone could do whatever it may be to me, but I get to choose how I respond. I get to choose how I react, and it makes such a difference. One of the themes in the show this year has been all of you talking about sheddings, the burdens of the past.

   12. KKKhloé Kardashian16:29

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JSJay Shetty16:30

       And I think that's such an interesting thing, because I think as you get older, you start to notice what you've been carrying with you.

   14. KKKhloé Kardashian16:37

       Right.

   15. JSJay Shetty16:37

       Right? And you've had longer to carry it with you, and now you're more aware.

   16. KKKhloé Kardashian16:41

       Right.

   17. JSJay Shetty16:41

       What

9. 16:42 – 19:47

   Stop Letting Validation Control You

   1. JSJay Shetty16:42

      were some of those things that came up for you and you were like, "I think these are things that I've been holding onto that I need to shed"? What are some of those burdens?

   2. KKKhloé Kardashian16:49

      I'm not a victim to this, but I do feel like I was, in a way, victimizing myself. But again, it sort of was more from the outside noise. I hate that I allowed other people to have that much control over the way I viewed myself. But I would say just from my past dating history, and a lot of them ended in cheating or there was just, they weren't great situations at the end. But yes, I think even in the most private of times that that happened and nobody publicly knew about it, there's still shame within your family. You feel embarrassed, like, how, you know, what did I do? You, you always make it about yourself, and that's okay because hopefully you will get stronger and reflect and not make those same mistakes again. And for me, they happened repeatedly, and I was like, "Okay, this is about me. I'm either not paying attention, I'm sweeping something under the rug." Like, I really wanted to be so aware of what I was doing and let that go, but let, let the guilt and the shame of that go because I, quote, "allowed it to happen" more than once. And I'm saying that because I didn't allow it to happen. But-The narrative out there was like, "Well, you get what you get." You know, like I should've known better. And yes, I probably should have, but I needed to learn that lesson. I know I carried so much shame and guilt, where there would be times that I was like, "I don't even wanna go out to the grocery store and look at someone in the eyes," 'cause I feel like I know what they're thinking about me. They probably don't know who I am. They probably have never heard this story. But the shame, this cloud that was ... I felt following me everywhere, that I, I don't know if it was even that big to other people, but it, I definitely felt like I was constantly surrounded by a gray cloud. I would limit myself from doing a lot of things and seeing a lot of people, 'cause I was ... I felt such shame, where I was like intentionally, "No, I'm gonna let this go." I have been alone for three years.

   3. JSJay Shetty18:59

      Yeah.

   4. KKKhloé Kardashian18:59

      And I love it. Like, I'm scared.

   5. JSJay Shetty19:01

      Yeah.

   6. KKKhloé Kardashian19:02

      'Cause I could do this for another five years and be so happy about it, but that's not normal. If you're not feeling accountable in some of the actions that you're making or what someone else is doing to you, that's okay. There will be a day that you will wake up. People are always so surprised that I'm not more cynical when it comes to love.

   7. JSJay Shetty19:19

      Yeah.

   8. KKKhloé Kardashian19:20

      And they always ask, "Do you ever think you're gonna get married again?" And I go, "Yes."

   9. JSJay Shetty19:25

      Have you ever gotten sick on a very expensive, very non-refundable family trip? Amazon One Medical has 24/7 virtual care so you can get help no matter where you are. And with Amazon Pharmacy, your meds can get delivered fast right to your hotel. It's kind of like the room service of medical care. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful.

10. 19:47 – 21:42

    Balancing Accountability and Forgiveness

    1. JSJay Shetty19:47

       There's so much maturity in what you're saying that requires so much. And something I wanna kind of go into with you is this idea of how do we take accountability but not take full responsibility, right? It's that idea of like, as you said-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian20:04

       Right

    3. JSJay Shetty20:04

       ... you can't, you can't blame yourself, and at the same time, you had to find a way to recognize you wanted to make better decisions.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian20:13

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JSJay Shetty20:14

       And I think it's such a fine line.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian20:16

       Very fine.

    7. JSJay Shetty20:16

       Because I think we go from saying, "It's not my fault, it's everyone else's fault"-

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian20:20

       Right

    9. JSJay Shetty20:20

       ... to the being like, "Oh, it's all my fault. It's all me. I'm the one to blame. I did this to myself." How did you find that balance which requires so much thoughtfulness and maturity to actually get to that place where it's like, I'm gonna take accountability to change my life, but I'm also gonna recognize that this happened to me, but it wasn't about me, as you said.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian20:41

        Right.

    11. JSJay Shetty20:41

        How do you get to that?

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian20:42

        Well, the interesting part is I think the very first time it happened, I didn't do that, and that's okay, 'cause it's done.

    13. JSJay Shetty20:48

        Yeah.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian20:48

        And I also had to forgive myself for that. There was a time that I was ... felt very guilty. Like, why did I even stay? Why am, why am I not forgiving myself? I would blame myself for everything. And then the second time, you know, I ... My surrogate was still pregnant with Tatum, and the people didn't know yet that I was having Tatum. But I felt such shame that it was happening again, because I knew I knew better.

    15. JSJay Shetty21:19

        Yeah. I mean, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking about the amount of people that are probably listening to you right now thinking, "Khloé, I had that fantasy too," and you had the courage, even though at one point, as you said, you were kind of, "Why did I stay that long," or, "Why did I keep doing that?" And you had to forgive yourself for that. But I think a lot of people

11. 21:42 – 23:10

    Learn to Be Patient with Yourself

    1. JSJay Shetty21:42

       don't know how to know when something's no longer serving them, and as I'm listening to you, I'm listening to someone who's saying, "I finally got to a point where I realized this fantasy wasn't serving me. It was keeping me here." We can't speed it up.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian21:58

       No.

    3. JSJay Shetty21:58

       We can't rush ourselves to it.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian22:00

       No.

    5. JSJay Shetty22:00

       You can't be forced to it.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian22:01

       No, and that's what I mean. I think people also need to be patient with themselves. Like, if they don't ... If you're not feeling accountable in some of the actions that you're making or some- what someone else is doing to you, that's okay. There will be a day that you will wake up. And listen, if I was watching me when I was in my 20s, I would be judging that person too and being like, "She's so stupid. It's gonna happen again." I don't blame people for their judgment. I think with life comes great wisdom and life experiences. And if my story helped anybody else feel less alone, 'cause it's such an isolating feeling. You feel like you're on this island, and it doesn't happen to anybody else, and sadly, it does. And I know so many people that stay longer than I did, and not that it's right, but you have to let go when you really feel like you're ready, or I think that person will always feel like, "Well, what if," and this, and I really just like to live my life in this w- no, I'm, I'm s- I'm solid in that action. I'm solid in that choice that I made.

12. 23:10 – 24:30

    Everyone Learns on Their Own Timeline

    1. JSJay Shetty23:10

       You're making such a powerful point here, and I really want everyone to take it home as they're listening. Like, you can only learn on your own timeline. You can't learn on anyone else's. You can't look at someone else's pace and say, "Oh, I should have done it like that," and, "Oh, why aren't-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian23:24

       We shouldn't... and they doing it like this?

    3. JSJay Shetty23:25

       ... why aren't they doing it like that?

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian23:26

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JSJay Shetty23:26

       And I think we just don't ... It's really easy to look at someone else's life, whoever it may be, our friends, our family, people on the screen, and think we know how perfectly they should live, yet we all know how hard it is to make one decision in our own life.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian23:43

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty23:43

       And what I've learned from ever having any training and learning from my spirituality and non-judgment was just that everything you judge in someone else, you won't fully understand until you have to go through it yourself.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian23:59

       I know.

    9. JSJay Shetty24:00

       And as soon as you go through it yourself, you wake up and you go, "I cannot believe I judged someone else for how-

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian24:07

        I know

    11. JSJay Shetty24:07

        ... they were navigating."... a divorce, a breakup, a marriage, whatever it may have been

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian24:12

        And trust me, I was that person.

    13. JSJay Shetty24:14

        All of us.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian24:14

        Yes. When I was younger, I used to... You either read something and you have a comment about it, or one of your friends or family members and, yes, and then you live your life and you go through it, and you're like, "Hmm. Okay."

    15. JSJay Shetty24:27

        [laughs]

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian24:27

        "I get it a little bit more."

    17. JSJay Shetty24:29

        Yeah.

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian24:29

        Yeah.

    19. JSJay Shetty24:29

        How did

13. 24:30 – 27:20

    A Path to Self-Forgiveness

    1. JSJay Shetty24:30

       you learn to forgive yourself? Because I think that is sometimes harder. And if I could say this, just from the moments I've been fortunate enough to spend time with you and connect with you, and thankfully, they've always been very deep. And so even though we haven't spent lots of time together, I feel when we have, it's always been deep time.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian24:47

       Yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty24:47

       It's, it's always a meaningful conversation-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian24:49

       Right

    5. JSJay Shetty24:49

       ... or an exchange. And as I'm sitting with you here today versus six years ago the first time, and every time I've seen you in between, I feel you've got more and more peaceful.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian24:58

       Thank you.

    7. JSJay Shetty24:59

       Just in your presence and who you are.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian25:01

       Thank you.

    9. JSJay Shetty25:01

       You've always been wonderful and kind, but more and more peaceful in yourself. And what I see is someone who's become a master in forgiveness.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian25:09

        Mm.

    11. JSJay Shetty25:10

        Your superpower is your ability to forgive.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian25:12

        Thank you.

    13. JSJay Shetty25:13

        To forgive others, but even more importantly, yourself. And so I'm really intrigued about your self part because forgiving other people is one thing, but letting yourself say, "Hey, I moved at the right time. I moved at the right pace. I don't need to hate on myself for not getting out of it sooner or not seeing it sooner," that requires so much inner forgiveness. Walk us through that.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian25:34

        Gosh, that's a deep one, Jay.

    15. JSJay Shetty25:36

        It is. [laughs]

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian25:37

        It is. I'm-

    17. JSJay Shetty25:38

        You're the one who's lived it. [laughs]

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian25:39

        I mean, oh my gosh. Well, I am not always kind to myself, and I think I am my biggest bully and critic and all of those things at times, and it is much easier for me to forgive others than myself, I will say that. Forgiving myself has really been more of the last three years of my adult life. But I was so great at giving other people grace, forgiveness, making ex- like, ex- not excuses for them, but just, like, always coming to their defense, no matter how wrong they've done me because I feel like it's not my place to judge them, and I don't know everything they're going through and that type of thing. And then one day, I was like, "But why don't I give myself the same energy that I'm giving so freely to other people?" And a lot of it comes through my prayer and my relationship with God, and just know... Like, I really had to also say to myself that this isn't about me. What these people have done, it's not just relationships in so many different levels, and there are times that you feel like, "Okay, what is it? Why do so many people take advantage or lie, cheat, steal," whatever it is. You can be angry. You can have your feelings, but sometimes you feel like, "Oh, I'm... It must be me 'cause it's happened so many times." And that's also why I feel like boundaries are so important to set, and I never had boundaries before, and I think that was a big thing. But I think a lot of that is releasing it and just knowing that that's not your burden to carry.

    19. JSJay Shetty27:19

        I think that's what it

14. 27:20 – 29:24

    When You Might Be the Problem

    1. JSJay Shetty27:20

       is. We start to believe deeply that there's only one problem, and that's us.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian27:28

       Right.

    3. JSJay Shetty27:29

       Right? We walk around thinking that, "It's all because of me. It's because of my weakness. It's because of my flaws. It's because of," whatever else it is, and we completely forget that there's anything else to it.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian27:40

       Well, 'cause then also if you're like, "Well, that's not because of me," like, when people say it also in that way, they're like, "Well-"

    5. JSJay Shetty27:47

       [laughs]

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian27:48

       "... you know, like, if everyone says that-"

    7. JSJay Shetty27:50

       Yeah

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian27:50

       ..."whatever-"

    9. JSJay Shetty27:51

       Yeah

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian27:51

        ..."then you, it has to be you, too."

    11. JSJay Shetty27:53

        Yeah.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian27:53

        So there's that fine line-

    13. JSJay Shetty27:55

        There is a fine line

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian27:56

        ... in that, for sure. But I think when you're just aware and when you're solid in yourself, I really do think it's okay to release those things.

    15. JSJay Shetty28:05

        Mm.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian28:05

        And if you are doing the work, if you're... And the work doesn't have to be therapy, like with a actual therapist. If you have a group of friends, and if those people really are unbiased and not judgmental and you can go to that, do that. For me, I really enjoy writing. It's not for people to see. It's just, it's a form of expression for me, and I feel like I'm really getting this energy out of my system.

    17. JSJay Shetty28:28

        Wow.

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian28:28

        And sometimes I'll write, and I'm like, "I'm tearing this up so no one ever sees it," and I don't even know what I'm gonna start writing. I'm like, "I just gotta get this on from pen to paper." It's such a release, and sometimes that's the, quote, therapy that I need or the conversation that I need. A lot of the times, it's the gym, it's whatever, but once I get to that point that I'm like, "Okay," a light bulb goes off. I'm like, "Yes, I could have done things differently, but I'm not the reason why this happened to me." Like, there's really no excuse for certain behavior.

    19. JSJay Shetty29:01

        Yeah.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian29:02

        But yes, I probably could have handled things differently or saw things differently, but, you know, I think people have to be fair and not just play the victim but not also play that they're this champion and this crusader.

    21. JSJay Shetty29:17

        Mm-hmm.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian29:18

        There definitely has to be... There's a good and bad to all of us-

    23. JSJay Shetty29:22

        Yeah

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian29:22

        ... if we want to admit it or not.

    25. JSJay Shetty29:23

        Absolutely,

15. 29:24 – 31:39

    You Are Not Your Mistakes

    1. JSJay Shetty29:24

       and I think it's that, it's being able to accept that I was weak, but I am not weak.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian29:31

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty29:31

       Right? There's a difference in that language even in the way you're speaking about it. There's a difference in I made a mistake versus I am a mistake.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian29:39

       Exactly.

    5. JSJay Shetty29:40

       And I think as soon as it becomes internalized to believe that that's who I am, that's who I've always been, and I won't be anything else, then we don't allow ourself to say no. It's almost like looking back at an outfit of yours and going, "God, I don't know why I was wearing that," right?

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian29:55

       Right.

    7. JSJay Shetty29:55

       And you're like, "Why did I wear that?" Like, those two things don't even go together.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian29:58

       Right.

    9. JSJay Shetty29:58

       But you know you're not your clothes.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian30:00

        Right.

    11. JSJay Shetty30:00

        So you forgive yourself, and you go, "Okay, that was a bad day, and I'll wear something else today, and I can make sure that it matches."

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian30:06

        And you're able to laugh about it.

    13. JSJay Shetty30:07

        Exactly.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian30:08

        Yes.

    15. JSJay Shetty30:08

        Yeah.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian30:08

        And the same sentiment should be held for our past mistakes. Like-Haven't you ever done anything and then it mortified you where you were so angry at yourself, and then five years later you will hysterically laugh-

    17. JSJay Shetty30:21

        Yes

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian30:21

        ... about it with your wife or whatever?

    19. JSJay Shetty30:22

        Yeah. And that's the best.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian30:23

        Yes.

    21. JSJay Shetty30:24

        Yeah.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian30:24

        And that's how I think most of our failures, mistakes in life should be. Sure, at the moment they're horrible.

    23. JSJay Shetty30:32

        Mm.

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian30:32

        And they make you feel really bad, but how beautiful is it when you are, have so much growth from that and you're a completely different person in a beautiful way, and then you look back and you're, you can laugh at that.

    25. JSJay Shetty30:44

        Mm.

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian30:44

        At something that made you sob cry in a corner, and you were, you know, in a fetal position, you didn't wanna see anyone. And then you're like, "No. Okay, I had a bad moment."

    27. JSJay Shetty30:55

        Yeah.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian30:55

        "It's not a bad life, and I can move on and be stronger and better." But sometimes we let those moments consume us, and we never get out of them. And for me, that's a place that I never wanna be, 'cause I felt like I was in that for a few years. And that was scary to me, because I've never been in a dark place for that long, of a place of shame and guilt and all of that. And then finally I just said to myself, "Okay, enough." No one wants to be around someone, when you're like, "How's your day?" "Ugh. Fine." And not that I was that person-

    29. JSJay Shetty31:31

        Yeah

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian31:31

        ... but internally I felt like I was that person. I love being happy and joyful, and like life is so great if you look for the good.

16. 31:39 – 36:00

    The Work Only You Can Do

    1. JSJay Shetty31:39

       You just hit on something that's really important. I think a lot of people kinda get into that lull, like that feeling of a long period of, "I don't see light at the, at the end of a tunnel." And was it s- was it like that for you? I mean, you- you're so committed to the work, whether it's your prayer, your journaling. We were just talking earlier when you came in about how you need a few hours every week-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian32:02

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty32:02

       ... just by yourself.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian32:03

       Yes.

    5. JSJay Shetty32:04

       And that's a practice that you've maintained with children, with your businesses, with your responsibilities, that carving out that time's so important to you. Talk to me about that, about like how much the work helped you even in the darkest times. Were you able to maintain it, or?

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian32:20

       I mean, the work is what got me out of the darkest times. I think it's, it's really easy to turn to God or whoever your higher being is, it's really easy to turn there when you're in this low time, and like, "Get me out," and, you know, and you just think magically they're gonna send you a ladder and like pull you out of this ditch.

    7. JSJay Shetty32:40

       Mm.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian32:41

       But yes, He will maybe give you signs and tools, but you have to do the work.

    9. JSJay Shetty32:46

       Mm.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian32:46

        He can give you the recipe, but you gotta put all the cake mix and everything together and bake the cake. And I think so many times people expect it just like to be magic, "Get me out of there," and they don't wanna do the work 'cause the work is scary. Being alone is scary with the self-reflection and writing and all that. Like, 'cause one- you're like, "Oh, I have to face myself," and that seems a little daunting, and people like to distract and not f- come to terms with who they are. For me, and again, being in my 20s, I did a lot of distracting. It's fun to distract, especially at that age, and you don't have kids, and you can do whatever. And so I remember that after my divorce, or even when my dad died, my dad died when I was 19, I remember going out every night 'cause I, it, I was an avoidant. Let me avoid these feelings. I'm not, if it's, if I'm not feeling them, they're not happening. Well, that didn't work too well. I remember losing all my hair, gaining so much weight, hyperventilating, like when, when I would be alone. When I got a divorce, very similar. Let me go out, let me party, drink, hang out with new guys. What does that get me? You know, I, I realized, okay, these w- ways of coping didn't work for so many years, that when this time happened, and maybe a little help of COVID, it was around 2022, 2021, 2022. But still, things were still sort of locked down a little bit, and I just said, "No. I'm not gonna date anyone." And now I have kids too. I'm not going to a club. Like, what, what am I doing? But having to face myself and intentionally be alone, intentionally do the work, intentionally every day I wake up at 5:00 AM because I need that alone time to have my coffee, do my prayers, listen to my Bible app. Like, whatever it is that makes you whole, I need that, and I know when I don't have that how different my day feels. I like to set my intentions for the day or my workouts, the clarity I get. Just whatever it is, everyone's gonna be different. If you need to be outside, you have to decide that. But it did take me a long time of doing other things and seeing how horrible [laughs] those things served me for me to find, okay, this I like. And yes, it's easy to, for me to go and date a man and be an avoidant and distract these real feelings, but then what? The same thing is probably gonna happen to me again, 'cause I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm just willy-nilly going through life. And what? Because somebody's cute or this, I'm not paying attention to the core of people, and even to the core of myself. And I just started listening to myself and finding the things that really made me feel whole but alone. And I know so many of my friends cannot be alone, 'cause they don't wanna hear their own thoughts. They don't wanna start working on themselves. And I'm not judging that, but I know how amazing it is to be alone with myself and to like who I am.

17. 36:00 – 38:18

    Rewiring a Negative Mindset

    1. JSJay Shetty36:00

       I'm so glad you talked about that, because I think that's one of the challenges we have today in the world, is our inability to be alone. And again, I come at it from the same point of view as, as you. It's not about being judgmental. It's coming from a place of compassion and empathy-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian36:17

       Right

    3. JSJay Shetty36:18

       ... that you can't break a pattern-If you simply avoid it-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian36:22

       Right

    5. JSJay Shetty36:22

       ... and pretend it doesn't exist. And when we're alone, we're breaking the pattern because we have to look at those assumptions, we have to look at all those beliefs, we have to look at the hard-wired truths that we're living by, and we've got to look at, wait a minute, every decision I make, where in the past did that seed get planted-

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian36:39

       Mm

    7. JSJay Shetty36:39

       ... and I'm now, I'm now eating the fruit from that? And what seed do I want to plant today? Because I want to eat a different fruit in the future.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian36:47

       Right.

    9. JSJay Shetty36:47

       Otherwise, we keep eating the fruits from the past and never plant any new seeds.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian36:51

        I understand how difficult it is to change your mindset. Your mind is a muscle. I, I get it, and we are humans by nature. L- like, they love a routine. You, you find comfort in that. I totally get that. So I'm not saying, "Oh, it's so easy. Go ahead and do this." No, but it's little practices every day.

    11. JSJay Shetty37:10

        Yeah. I always say to people, "You're... There's two questions you have to ask yourself. The first is, are you someone who seeks discomfort or someone who needs to build confidence?"

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian37:19

        Mm.

    13. JSJay Shetty37:20

        So if so- if you're someone who needs to seek discomfort, you should start with the hardest thing first.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian37:25

        Mm.

    15. JSJay Shetty37:25

        And if you're someone who needs to build confidence, you should start with the easiest thing first.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian37:30

        Right.

    17. JSJay Shetty37:30

        Because some of us want to wake up in the morning and jump into a cold plunge-

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian37:33

        Right

    19. JSJay Shetty37:33

        ... because that sets us up for the day.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian37:35

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty37:35

        And some of us just need to wake up and make our bed.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian37:37

        Right.

    23. JSJay Shetty37:37

        And if we do that, now we feel-

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian37:39

        Right

    25. JSJay Shetty37:39

        ... we can do harder things.

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian37:40

        [laughs]

    27. JSJay Shetty37:40

        And, and all of us are one or the other. And the second thing is, are you an extremist or are you a balanced person? So for someone like me, I'm really good at being extreme.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian37:50

        Right.

    29. JSJay Shetty37:50

        So if I make a decision and a commitment, I can be really extreme and cut it out tomorrow.

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian37:55

        Mm-hmm.
18. 38:18 – 41:11

    Why Therapy Can Be Transformative

    1. JSJay Shetty38:18

       as we're talking about all of this and your commitment to the work, your commitment and continued commitment to it, why was traditional therapy a path that you wanted to go down and take part in, as you mentioned? Why was that something that you opened the door to?

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian38:33

       So for me, I n- never really thought I needed to go the conventional route. Kimberly was also m- anti-therapy f- for her own reasons, and I want to say maybe two years ago, maybe a little bit longer, she started seeing a therapist that she really, really liked, and she just suggested I meet with her, and I actually really liked... Like, I really enjoy speaking with her. This might sound silly, but she is, you know, she's, like, from our neighborhood. Like, there are so many things that she gets us on, and I also love how chill she is. Like, at the beginning, she would [laughs] ... When I, I would talk to her, she was like, "I think I need to see you three days a week." And I was like, "Three days a week?" And I remember telling Kendall, and Kendall [laughs] was like, "Are you... I've never heard of someone seeing a therapist three days a week. I- are- do you need to go to a mental institution? Like, are you okay?" And I was like, "Oh my gosh, is that not normal?" And we started talking, me and the therapist, more and more, and she was like, "Okay, I think you're, like, you're actually really self-aware and you're great." I just... I had this little hump that I think I needed her a little bit more, maybe because I was just getting started, I'm not sure. And I love that she's also very chill. She's like, "Call me when you need me." She checks in on me by text. She's more like a friend, and you just feel... I feel like I could trust her.

    3. JSJay Shetty40:00

       Mm-hmm.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian40:01

       And that's very rare for me. And I also think because of her relationship with Kim, she felt like more of a friend-

    5. JSJay Shetty40:09

       Mm-hmm

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian40:09

       ... as opposed to this traditional therapist, and that's not bad or good. But because of my experience with past therapists, I didn't want something that was very traditional, 'cause I couldn't trust that.

    7. JSJay Shetty40:21

       Yeah.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian40:22

       So I don't see her on a weekly basis anymore. I know when I need to see her, I will, but we do our check-ins every now and again. But I honestly feel like I'm in such a good place, and I, I also don't think that there's one which way that people can or need to get any help or life coaching, if you will. I think that ev- it's not a one-size-fits-all. I think everyone, whatever you're willing to try, try it, and whatever you feel like really speaks to your soul, then that's, that's the way to go.

    9. JSJay Shetty40:56

       Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's such a value when you can trust someone-

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian40:59

        Mm-hmm

    11. JSJay Shetty41:00

        ... in speaking to someone who's not connected to your life-

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian41:03

        Right

    13. JSJay Shetty41:03

        ... and almost doesn't feel the pressure to remind you that, "Hey, you're doing great," or, like, you know, that-

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian41:08

        Right

    15. JSJay Shetty41:08

        ... that's trying to fill all those other ways.

19. 41:11 – 43:17

    Finding the Courage to Trust Again

    1. JSJay Shetty41:11

       But the thing that stood out to me is, you know, you talked earlier about the romantic relationships where your trust was broken.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian41:17

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty41:17

       How do you even find the courage to trust again?

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian41:21

       That's really hard, and I... It took me over 10 years to see a therapist again, and so many people were like, "I think you need therapy," and I was like, "Well, I'm sure I do, but I don't feel comfortable talking to anybody." And definitely, at first, I would talk to her so monotone, so matter-of-fact. She would even say, "You don't have emotion when you're speaking." And for me, I had to turn off the emotional-

    5. JSJay Shetty41:46

       Oh

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian41:47

       ... switch in me, and I would tell stories very ma- 'cause they are a matter of fact when I'm giving you the facts, but it was more like I'm... It wasn't me. I'm just reading off somebody's life story. And one of our activities or homework assignments, basically, was me writing some, like, from the mini traumas to the big traumas in my life and writing them down, and the more I would write them down, I was like, "This is ridiculous," like how many mini to major traumas there are. And then we would go line by line and talk about them as opposed to just being likeThis happened and this, and throwing everything under the rug. She wanted to dissect everyone, not to be nosy-

    7. JSJay Shetty42:30

       Mm-hmm

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian42:30

       ... like, not for... I felt it. Like, s- there's some people I meet with, and I'm like, "I do not trust this person. I'm not gonna give them anything." And she really worked hard to earn my trust. That made me feel safer with her-

    9. JSJay Shetty42:42

       Yeah

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian42:42

        ... and just to sort of get why I am so dead about some of the things that I should probably be crying about if I'm telling somebody this story that I'm telling. But the trust took a long time, but I, I will say, because I trust all of my siblings with everything in me, that normally if it is an introduction through them-

    11. JSJay Shetty43:04

        Of course

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian43:05

        ... my guards do go down. And Kim has had her own crazy things that she's not very trusting with either, so for her to trust-

    13. JSJay Shetty43:14

        Yeah

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian43:14

        ... I was like, "Okay, I think I'm a little safe here."

20. 43:17 – 46:19

    Getting Comfortable with Being Vulnerable

    1. JSJay Shetty43:17

       Yeah. What did you find about that? Because I think that's so true for so many people who go to therapy, that when you first go, you do recount your life as if it's a biography.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian43:28

       Right.

    3. JSJay Shetty43:28

       Right? You talk about it as if it's another person-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian43:30

       Right

    5. JSJay Shetty43:30

       ... because we have s- disassociated and disconnected some of that emotion as a protective mechanism, as a mechanism of not internalizing all of it. What did you find when you started to kind of go through the less salacious parts and these more... And, and other... To be honest, I also imagine it's rarely those moments that are the really defining moments. The defining moments happened much earlier-

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian43:53

       Right

    7. JSJay Shetty43:53

       ... or the unseen things. What did you discover as you started to almost, as you said in your words, you were dead. How did you become more alive to the emotion of those moments? What did you discover?

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian44:02

       Well, I remember I would just, like, I wrote everything down, and I would read them as if I was reading, like you said, somebody's biography, and I'm like, "Okay." She would just keep asking me, "You don't have any feeling when you read these?" And I was like, "Well, yeah," and I would start laughing. And she's like, "Okay, well, not laughter." 'Cause I would feel so uncomfortable.

    9. JSJay Shetty44:26

       Mm.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian44:26

        And then that's my nervousness, and I realized once I was... I would be like, okay, sort of get my own ego out of the way. Like, I had to strip myself down, and it took a few times. Like, she didn't want me to cry and relive this. She just was more fascinated how I was so numb to so many things, and it really made me more sad for myself because I felt as if, God, I've been through so many things that at this point I would rather not feel than feel, because feeling is too much for me to handle. And what is life if you don't feel things? Like, I want to feel... I do wanna feel sadness too. Like, I love feeling joy and happiness, but then why am I so... Like, I get, I know why I'm so okay with that feeling, but also grief is also a beautiful thing 'cause it, it's an expression of love, and I think being sad or hurt means that there was once something or someone that you valued and cared about so much. And those were things that I had to learn and be like, "It, it's okay. You're safe here." So it really just taught me to remind myself, like, we don't have to be numb to everything, and I use humor as an escape, as a defense mechanism. I, I do love to laugh, and I do love humor, but I realize in really dark situations, I do tend to make a joke of it at some point.

    11. JSJay Shetty45:56

        [laughs]

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian45:56

        Like, s- that's just my personality.

    13. JSJay Shetty45:58

        Yeah.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian45:59

        And I have to remind myself it's okay to cry or it's okay to have feelings. It doesn't make me weak. And I don't e- that's not even a thought I'm having. Like, oh, are they gonna think I'm weak? But whenever I do cry, I tend to apologize afterwards-

    15. JSJay Shetty46:12

        Mm

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian46:13

        ... for some reason.

    17. JSJay Shetty46:14

        Have you figured out why?

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian46:15

        No.

    19. JSJay Shetty46:16

        No, yeah.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian46:16

        I should probably ask her about that. [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty46:18

        Yeah. Well,

21. 46:19 – 48:28

    It’s Brave to Let Yourself Cry

    1. JSJay Shetty46:19

       no, I, I thi- I think partly it's because we're... I mean, you probably know it as a mother, I think. Whenever we were crying as kids, most people just said to her, "It's okay, don't cry."

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian46:27

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty46:28

       "It's okay, don't cry," whatever it was, right?

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian46:30

       Right.

    5. JSJay Shetty46:30

       And not that our parents had bad intentions-

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian46:34

       No

    7. JSJay Shetty46:34

       ... or anything like that.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian46:35

       It's a different time. [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty46:35

       It's a dif- it's a natural thing to say.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian46:37

        Yes.

    11. JSJay Shetty46:37

        But it's like, I think we've always been made to feel like if you cried, it was almost wrong, or it wasn't needed, or it wasn't necessary. And-

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian46:46

        And what's so weird, my mom cri- like, I wish I was more like that. She cries at anything and everything, like, but happy.

    13. JSJay Shetty46:54

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian46:54

        Like, I'm like, I don't know if I've cried happy tears ever.

    15. JSJay Shetty46:58

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian46:58

        Like, and I, but I wish I was that type of person that I'm like, "Oh my goodness, the joy."

    17. JSJay Shetty47:03

        Yeah. [laughs]

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian47:03

        Like, I wish I had a little bit of that. She maybe has too much.

    19. JSJay Shetty47:06

        Yeah. [laughs]

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian47:06

        I wish she could sprinkle a little onto me. But I, and we're all different.

    21. JSJay Shetty47:11

        I'm that person. I can, like, get teary.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian47:13

        You are?

    23. JSJay Shetty47:13

        To where, like, if I get asked to speak at someone's birthday that I love or someone's wedding or whatever it is, I am just holding back tears. I've had the opportunity to officiate some weddings, and whenever I'm officiating, I'm just literally going, "Jay, don't cry. Don't cry."

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian47:28

        Oh.

    25. JSJay Shetty47:28

        "Don't cry." 'Cause I, it just, when I see people in love and I see, you know-

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian47:32

        Right

    27. JSJay Shetty47:32

        ... all the families and-

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian47:33

        That's my dream

    29. JSJay Shetty47:34

        ... kids and... Yeah, it's like-

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian47:35

        To cry a little
22. 48:28 – 52:02

    Understanding Your Love Language

    1. JSJay Shetty48:28

       It seems like one of the things I notice with you is you're such a rock.For your family, for your children, even for your ex-partners. Like, you've been such a rock, and in one sense it seems like one of your patterns is you've always taken care of others-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian48:44

       Mm-hmm

    3. JSJay Shetty48:44

       ... and other people. Have you discovered anything about why you've seen yourself take on that role in so many relationships in your life?

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian48:52

       Yeah, well, it's definitely my love language, and I am such a maternal person. I've always been that person. And no one's ever said this to me, and my parents are so loving and so incredible, but I s- used to feel, but I still lo- like, I still love taking care of people, but I used to feel like I wasn't worthy of, like, so many other things. But I knew if I took care of someone or was suppor- like, then maybe I would be worthy of them loving me back, and that's how I used to feel. And I don't know where that came from, but it's almost like I have to earn my place in this person's life. So if I'm there for them, then maybe, like, that's enough. Because what else do I have to offer was how I used to feel. When it comes to all the kids, I was very ... Not by my family, but by other people, I was always talked about my looks, always told that I was chubby. No one ever believed that I was my sibling's sibling. They would always say, "Oh, well, like, where'd she come from?" Or, "Are, are ... She's related to you?" From, like, teachers to some- I remember so vividly, and that feeling of being always compared to them but always not good enough to be considered their sibling. And I don't think these adults maliciously knew what they were doing, but it was so impactful that for children, I will do everything to include them, for them to never feel like that. And for adults too, but, like, with kids I don't play, and I never want someone to feel the way I did and so I wanna be that rock for everyone. And, you know, I think also having so many brothers and sisters, you know, I- we were raised with my stepdad's kids too. Being in and out, we had four step-siblings. So there was eight of us, and then at one point 10 of us. And there's a lot, and sometimes people just don't feel as seen as others. And parents are doing the best that they can, and so I always have just wanted everyone to feel seen and supported. And from every sister and exes, like, it's just I feel like they're always in our lives, that God puts people in our lives for a reason. But I don't know, it's a part of me that I actually really love about myself, 'cause we've talked about it in therapy. She thinks I give my love ... Well, what did she say? I don't wanna mess it up. She's like, "I think you give your love to others because you've never really felt that love yourself." But I know I've felt that from my parents. It's mainly from outside people that I've never really felt real, genuine love. It was like, "Oh, they'll take me because they wanted Kourtney, Kim, and Rob," or whatever. Like, I always had to, like ... I was always the funny one 'cause I felt like that was how I would get attention. Because it wasn't because, "Oh, she's so cute," or this or that 'cause people always made such a point to tell me how much I did not look like them or things like that. So I, I felt like, "Well, those were the things that people praised me on, so let's keep them up."

23. 52:02 – 54:21

    We All Love Differently

    1. JSJay Shetty52:02

       Yeah. And it is such a beautiful thing to be able to say, "I love this about myself. And yes, maybe it's made me overgive or overlove or overshare or whatever it may be, but at the same time, there's a beauty in this. Helps me be an amazing mom, helps me protect these children, like, which is such a beautiful gift." And I think sometimes that's so true, that our greatest gifts and our greatest superpowers come from how we were loved and what we experienced or what we had or didn't have, and it's us figuring out how that superpower can still live in our life and not trip us up. And I think as time's gone on, as we start to set boundaries, a boundary should never put a boundary on your ability to love.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian52:44

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty52:44

       It's a boundary to protect you from loving the wrong person.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian52:47

       Right.

    5. JSJay Shetty52:48

       And there's a difference in that, right?

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian52:49

       There is.

    7. JSJay Shetty52:50

       You wanting to share love and give love should never be limited by who you choose-

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian52:55

       And not a bad thing

    9. JSJay Shetty52:55

       ... And not a bad thing.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian52:56

        No.

    11. JSJay Shetty52:56

        A- and not a bad thing. And I think we all can become closed-hearted and, you know, darker and bitter about it because of what we've experienced, but I love that you've held onto that. And I think the biggest challenge for a good-hearted, good person is that we believe everyone loves the way we do.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian53:15

        Yes.

    13. JSJay Shetty53:16

        And then when they don't-

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian53:17

        Yes

    15. JSJay Shetty53:17

        ... we feel hurt by it, and then we can become closed and unloving, but that's the biggest loss for the world.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian53:24

        Right.

    17. JSJay Shetty53:24

        It's the biggest loss for our lives because, as you said, there's so much joy. If you can feel joy in being that person, it's a beautiful thing.

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian53:33

        People are always so surprised that I'm not more cynical when it comes to love.

    19. JSJay Shetty53:38

        Yeah.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian53:38

        And they always ask, "Do you ever think you're gonna get married again?" And I go, "Yes, I hope I'm gonna get married again." I think marriage is the most beautiful union that there is, and I love that. I love family. I mean, look at our family. We can't get away from each other. And I love every aspect of love, whether it be just for f- a friendship love or, like, I value that respect and that secrecy and that loyalty and whatever it is. And people are always surprised that I believe in love. I probably am more joyful now, especially with love, than maybe five years ago.

    21. JSJay Shetty54:18

        Wow.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian54:18

        And it's because I feel like I know how to

24. 54:21 – 55:31

    The Beauty of Giving Love

    1. KKKhloé Kardashian54:21

       control myself more.

    2. JSJay Shetty54:23

       Mm.

    3. KKKhloé Kardashian54:23

       Where before, you know, you just give things so freely. And I love giving love. I love loving myself, loving my family and others. But-I feel like I'm a little bit wiser with maybe whom I give it to so innocently

    4. JSJay Shetty54:41

       I think the amazing thing about love is we think love is also something we only feel when we receive it.

    5. KKKhloé Kardashian54:45

       Right.

    6. JSJay Shetty54:46

       But love, you actually feel it when you get to give it.

    7. KKKhloé Kardashian54:48

       Yes.

    8. JSJay Shetty54:48

       There's like a joy in giving love that isn't there even in receiving it.

    9. KKKhloé Kardashian54:53

       I could not agree more

    10. JSJay Shetty54:55

        Right?

    11. KKKhloé Kardashian54:55

        Like, I cannot accept gifts from people.

    12. JSJay Shetty54:57

        [laughs]

    13. KKKhloé Kardashian54:57

        I feel so uncomfortable.

    14. JSJay Shetty54:59

        Yeah.

    15. KKKhloé Kardashian54:59

        But giving somebody a gift-

    16. JSJay Shetty55:01

        Yeah

    17. KKKhloé Kardashian55:01

        ... I love.

    18. JSJay Shetty55:03

        Yeah.

    19. KKKhloé Kardashian55:03

        And I get so excited just for ... 'Cause I like to give really thoughtful gifts. Like, it's just the joy that you give to pe- I j- I love ... Yeah, I just love ... And I l- I do have a problem where I love people. I'm one ... I was one of those kids, my mom was like, "I could never leave you alone."

    20. JSJay Shetty55:19

        [laughs]

    21. KKKhloé Kardashian55:19

        "You would just go talk to everyone." And I ... But I've always been a people person.

    22. JSJay Shetty55:23

        Yeah.

    23. KKKhloé Kardashian55:23

        So and I never wanna see people in pain. I wanna be that love and support for someone if and when I can.

    24. JSJay Shetty55:30

        Yeah, it's beautiful.

25. 55:31 – 59:51

    Reuniting with Lamar After 9 Years

    1. JSJay Shetty55:31

       I mean, speaking of marriage, obviously recently on the show, you had Lamar on the show. And I believe it was the first time you'd seen each other in nine years.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian55:39

       Almost 10, yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty55:40

       Almost 10 years.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian55:41

       Yes.

    5. JSJay Shetty55:41

       I wonder why did you feel now was the time to reconnect, and was it you who initiated, was it him? Where did that come from?

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian55:51

       So yeah, Lamar and I, the last time I saw him, I believe was 2016.

    7. JSJay Shetty55:57

       Wow.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian55:57

       And, and never spoke, nothing since 2016, if my memory serves correctly. I was actually at S- Super Bowl last year, the one in Las Vegas. And my best friend Malika was there, and she was staying somewhere else, and she ran into him in a hotel lobby, and they both just started, like, crying 'cause they were really close, and just embraced, and they exchanged numbers. And so that's how the first intro happened. And for Lamar, I, I've ... When we divorced, Lamar was not in a good head space and ... But Lamar's a seven-foot-tall man. We had all this custom furniture, and he was like, "Just get rid of it all. I don't want it. Just sell the house." And I'm like, "What?" I didn't know what to do with that. So for years, I kept a storage unit of all of his furniture, thinking one day he would want it. And years ago, before I had kids-

    9. JSJay Shetty56:56

       That's so thoughtful

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian56:56

        ... Thank you.

    11. JSJay Shetty56:56

        Yeah.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian56:56

        Well, it's his and expensive, and he's a big guy. Like, you're gonna want it. And I remember he was ... Before I had True, um, I think I was just pregnant. I was like, "You know what? I just, I don't need to hold onto this storage unit anymore." And he said through his friend, who will go unnamed, said, "Give him the storage keys, and he'll take it from me." And I was like, "Cool, fine." I did so, and I found out later down the line that this friend of his sold everything that was in the unit, and without Lamar knowing. And that broke my heart 'cause I was like, "I've saved these things for years. I could've got rid of it then, but these were his belongings and memorabilia from all of his sports stuff and whatever." So that broke my heart. When I moved from my last house during COVID, I think it was 2020 or 2021, I didn't think I had, had a thing of Lamar's. I found Lamar's Sixth Man of the Year trophy. I found ... His m- his mom passed away when he was 12, I believe. I found stuff of his mother's. They were all in my attic, jewelry, all this stuff, and I j- I held onto it. And I said, "I'm never gonna give this to somebody else unless it's Lamar. I'm gonna hold onto these things 'cause now I don't trust his people around him." And, um, when Malika reached out, m- when Malika told me she saw him, I said, "That's so weird. I just found his mom's driver's license last week." And I was like, "Okay, let's ..." She's like, "Well, why don't you give it to him?" I was like, "Let me think this over." And it took a few months for me to want her to reach out to say, like, "Do you want to meet up with me?" 'Cause I wanted to do it ... I didn't wanna just drop it off. I didn't. I wanted to see him and make sure still that he was doing o- okay. And at the time, I didn't f- have any feelings. I was like, "Yeah, let's hang. Let's come over. Let's go to Malika's house." I didn't wanna do it in public where it would be a big spectacle. I didn't wanna do it at my house because of my kids there, and he knew about the cameras. He picked the time and the date. I never would've ambushed somebody about that. And he picked the time and the date. He flew in for it. And it's so weird when I thought I was totally cool, and when he came in, he was so nervous. And I was trying to reassure him like, "We're fine," and whatever. And there would be times in our conversation that I started getting these feelings. I don't know if they're triggers or ... 'Cause we've both experienced a lot of trauma together, Lamar and I. And there would be either little m- little mannerisms or things that would flash me back to 10, 15 years ago, and I didn't realize how triggered I was getting from

26. 59:51 – 1:03:46

    Leaving What No Longer Serves You

    1. KKKhloé Kardashian59:51

       Lamar.

    2. JSJay Shetty59:52

       What did it bring up for you, and, and was it useful in giving more closure? Did it feel like it moved it on, or was it kinda like pulling you back? Because I'm thinking about all the people in the world who have the courage, first of all, to even not talk to someone for nine years, because that's hard enough as it is.

    3. KKKhloé Kardashian1:00:08

       Mm-hmm.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:00:09

       But then to kinda throw yourself back into it that much time later.

    5. KKKhloé Kardashian1:00:12

       Well, I can only say this 'cause he ... I would never tell somebody else's story.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:00:16

       Yeah.

    7. KKKhloé Kardashian1:00:16

       But I'm saying this 'cause he said it on the episode. We didn't talk for 10 years because after his, after his overdose, Lamar couldn't walk or talk, and he had a significant amount of seizures and strokes and needed to be rehabilitated. And I helped him through that journey. And then when he was at a decent place, he started using again, and he said that on the show. That's why-I'm saying it now. And from that moment was when I was paying for a house for him to be in. I had ev- I was taking care of him, and I said, "I can never see you again." Not that it was anything ever romantic. I, from my... I love Lamar with all my heart. Even today, I love, love, love him, and I know he was, like, one of the greatest loves of my life. It just, other circumstances took over. But so I really sincerely wanted the best for him. When he started using again after such a horrific accident where he, in my opinion, is a miracle that he is alive today, I couldn't understand how someone would go and do that again, and I get it's a disease, but it felt like you punched me in my stomach, and I put so much of my life on hold to take care of this person just for them to be like, "Well, that's fine." Like, I'm, I'm not sure how he felt about himself. It made me feel that he had no respect for his own life-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:01:46

       Mm

    9. KKKhloé Kardashian1:01:47

       ... and for anything that I did for him as well. And so from that moment on, I said, "No, I'm not speaking to this person anymore because it does nothing for me. It- there's no benefit in this." I felt more like I would be taking care of him but being lied to. I just, I had so many negative thoughts. So that 10-year break, as sad as it was, it wasn't that hard for me-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:02:14

        Mm

    11. KKKhloé Kardashian1:02:14

        ... because I, it was... But it was sad, and I thought about him all the time and always wanting to make sure he's okay. And then when I saw him, like, I loved seeing him. It was great. It was really sad at the same time. Seeing someone I thought I would never outgrow, I realized how much I outgrew him, and that made me sad. And but I wonder if we were still married, would we have grown together? And there were so many things that made me wonder even more, like would we have grown together? If we did stay together, would this have stopped, or would it s- would that beast always, you know, be needing to be fed? But you can't live your life in the what ifs of it all. But it definitely made me sad because I just felt like we were s- two totally different people, and I never thought we would get to that place.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:03:14

        Yeah.

    13. KKKhloé Kardashian1:03:14

        I'm happy for him. I am so happy that he's sober and he's doing these great things with his life, and those are things that anyone should be rooting for.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:03:25

        Yeah.

    15. KKKhloé Kardashian1:03:25

        I'm also proud of him for meeting with me.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:03:29

        Mm.

    17. KKKhloé Kardashian1:03:29

        Because as much as, as scary as, or as nerve-wracking, and yeah, scary as it was for me to meet with him, I could only imagine how he felt because we left on really bad terms on his end. [laughs] So I'm sure it was scarier for him.

27. 1:03:46 – 1:05:15

    Releasing Residual Negativity

    1. JSJay Shetty1:03:46

       Does it make you feel like there's more healing for you to do in regard to that relationship, like resentment, anger, or, or that the forgiveness that you had has kind of felt more concrete?

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:03:57

       I don't have any anger or resentment.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:04:01

       Wow.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:04:01

       I really, really don't. And, and I don't know if this is a bad or a good thing, but me and m- all my siblings, my mom could be on the fence with this one, but definitely me and my siblings, when we, like, we will be mad in the moment and curse someone out and yada, yada. You give us a year, and we're like, "We love that person. What are you..." Like, we don't ever hold onto that bad stuff, and we don't know if that's necessarily good-

    5. JSJay Shetty1:04:27

       [laughs]

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:04:28

       ... because you, sometimes you need to remember what people are capable of.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:04:32

       Yeah.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:04:32

       But we're like, "Oh, but they're great," and we'll recite these great things. But I also think it is a beautiful thing 'cause I wanna remember the good. I know what you are capable of, but I don't need to hold on to all of-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:04:45

       Yeah

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:04:45

        ... the stuff that happened too 'cause I also feel like that was their journey. That was for them to experience and go through, and I was just a bystander. Yes, I went through it as well, but that journey is really for that other person.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:05:00

        I'm mind-blown, honestly.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:01

        My God, Jay.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:05:02

        It's... No, I mean it. It's just... And, and I believe you so deeply. I can, I can feel it just sitting with you in, in your presence, but it's so hard to do what you're saying for, just in general. And

28. 1:05:15 – 1:09:04

    Why We All Need Empathy

    1. JSJay Shetty1:05:15

       people always say forgive and forget, but I think for you it's forgive and don't forget.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:20

       Yeah, no-

    3. JSJay Shetty1:05:20

       And that-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:20

       ... it's forgive and don't forget.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:05:22

       Yeah.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:22

       And I think so much of it is empathy. I think that-

    7. JSJay Shetty1:05:27

       That's huge, Khloé. It's huge. Like, I want... I really hope you-

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:31

       Thank you

    9. JSJay Shetty1:05:31

       ... I really hope you allow that to sit with you and take that in today-

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:35

        Oh, that's so nice

    11. JSJay Shetty1:05:35

        ... of just how huge it is because-

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:36

        Well, 'cause most people say, "Oh, 'cause you're so weak."

    13. JSJay Shetty1:05:40

        No, I think of it the other way around.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:40

        And I think it is a strength. Like, whenever... I remember when Tristan's mother passed away, and, um, Tristan has a dis- a brother that's disabled, and his mother was... A- Amari is Tristan's brother's name.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:05:55

        Mm-hmm.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:05:56

        Tristan's mom was Amari's sole caretaker, and she passed away. I... Tristan's house was under construction. We had all these crazy rains. His roof caved in. Tristan and I were not speaking at this time. Like, there was not a chance I would speak to him. And when Andrea passed away, I remember, um, having Amari and Tristan move in with me because, yes, he could have gone to a hotel, but he need... Tristan and Amari both needed to be not isolated. They both lost their mother. Amari needs special living arrangements, caretakers. There's a, a lot that comes with Amari. And so I was like, "Live here. Your kids are here." I got so much crap for that, and I'm thinking, "Do you guys think this is weak?" I wasn't speaking to this man.15 minutes ago and now I'm offering to give my house here. And, and that to me takes so much more strength. And also to walk around the house-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:06:57

        That makes sense

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:06:57

        ... in front of my kids and smile and, 'cause I'm not fighting in front of my kids. I don't do stuff like that. But, and with Lamar, like for Lamar, when his accident happened, his overdose happened at a brothel and he, you know, it's not like the... Like I, I showed up at the hospital not because I'm weak, because I was strong and I needed to take care of him, 'cause who else would have? And I think people don't realize how much strength comes in those things, and it doesn't mean I forget. It just means there's something bigger here that's gonna take precedence, and I need, my moral compass says I need to show up and honor that, and that's just mine.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:07:38

        Don't ever let anyone tell you-

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:07:39

        [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty1:07:39

        ... it's weak. It's so not weak. It's, it's so powerfully strong, and you can see it in your heart, and just that, a heart full of compassion and empathy and context and understand- I mean, you did that for Amari, right? The, the other situation-

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:07:53

        Oh, yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty1:07:53

        ... it's like you're going, if you're not talking to someone and you're going against all of this, but you're recognizing that there's someone here who's vulnerable, unable to care for themselves-

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian1:08:02

        Right

    25. JSJay Shetty1:08:02

        ... and needs-

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian1:08:03

        Yeah, Tristan could've got a hotel

    27. JSJay Shetty1:08:05

        ... needs-

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian1:08:05

        But, you know. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty1:08:05

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian1:08:07

        But with Amari-
29. 1:09:04 – 1:11:35

    What I Want My Kids to Remember

    1. JSJay Shetty1:09:04

       You brought up, uh, your beautiful children, uh, who I love seeing you with-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:08

       Aw

    3. JSJay Shetty1:09:08

       ... and they're adorable.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:09

       Thank you.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:09:10

       They're just the cutest. And, uh, I was just thinking that being a mom for you is just such a, it feels like such a natural role, as you said earlier.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:17

       It's my favorite thing.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:09:18

       That it's your favorite thing-

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:19

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty1:09:20

       ... and it, and it comes across in seeing all the kids together and everything. What do you hope as they grow up do they learn about you and see in you? What, what's your hope for them to understand about their mom?

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:31

        Oh my gosh, I wish... My phone's in the other room, but I dropped True off at school today, and they each wrote something about someone, and True wrote, "I love my mommy because there's kindness in her soul."

    11. JSJay Shetty1:09:45

        [laughs]

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:46

        And she's six, and I help her do her homework-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:09:48

        [laughs]

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:49

        ... which both were sweet. But the sentence, "There's kindness in her soul," I was like, what a profound thing to say and a deep thing for a six-year-old.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:09:58

        Huge.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:09:58

        It was so beautiful. And that makes me feel, you know, like, that I'm doing something right, that they don't love their mommy 'cause she gives me presents or this or that. Like, I try to be as present with my children as possible. We all have our phones. We all... I'm not saying I'm never on my phone, but when we do have our time, I wanna be on the floor with them playing games. I'm not just gonna buy them all these games, and that's what they care about, and they care about just the routine, the memories, the dinners, the, the little things. It doesn't have to be all day every day. I know everyone's working and everyone's juggling a million things, but if you even only have 30 minutes with your kids, make sure to put your phone down for the 30 minutes, 'cause your kids will remember that, and that 30 minutes you can build such a connection. And me and my kids, we talk, and we, they take baths together, both of them, and that's our time, and how loving both my kids are with each other that I take such pride in 'cause I always hear stories about s- you know.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:11:07

        [laughs]

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:07

        And I don't think I was that nice to my brother when I was little.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:11:10

        [laughs]

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:10

        But I just want them to know that this is a house of love, and, like, for me, love is the foundation. Love and faith is the foundation for everything.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:11:20

        Mm. That's so beautiful. I mean, it shows. I mean, that is such a profound thing for a six-year-old to write.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:26

        Isn't it?

    23. JSJay Shetty1:11:27

        And, and it's so sweet.

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:27

        I got it this mor-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:11:27

        Yeah

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:27

        ... I took a picture of it this morning. I was like-

    27. JSJay Shetty1:11:29

        I'll have to show me later.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:30

        I am.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:11:31

        Yeah.

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:31

        I was shocked. I, like, what a deep thing to say.
30. 1:11:35 – 1:14:24

    Why Kids Don’t Need the Internet

    1. JSJay Shetty1:11:35

       sweet. We were talking about earlier society's expectations and pressures as you were growing up, and as you said, it's so much harder on children today-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:42

       Yes

    3. JSJay Shetty1:11:42

       ... because of the access, right? Before you knew what your class was doing. Today you know what the whole world is doing.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:48

       Right.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:11:48

       They're also kids that the whole world knows what they're doing.

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:11:51

       Right.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:11:51

       So it, it creates so many... How do you, what does it look like when you're thinking about this and you're figuring out how they navigate the world that they're growing up in? What are the thoughts that come to your mind?

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:02

       We went to, um, a restaurant the other night, and the waitress kept calling me by my name. She was like, "Khloé, do you want another drink?" Whatever. And True was going, "How does she know who you are?" And I go, "Oh, I just come here all the time."

    9. JSJay Shetty1:12:16

       [laughs]

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:16

        Which I don't, but they don't realize that we're on TV or any- like, they don't know the difference-

    11. JSJay Shetty1:12:22

        Yeah

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:22

        ... 'cause I'm, we're not talking about it, and I just think that's, um-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:12:25

        That's impressive. Yeah

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:26

        ... I think that's so funny to me-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:12:28

        [laughs]

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:28

        ... that she's like, "How does somebody know your name?" Or she'll say, "Why do they want a picture with you?" I go, "Maybe she likes my hair."

    17. JSJay Shetty1:12:34

        [laughs]

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:34

        Like, I always try to say, like, something and brush it off. I don't know. I don't wanna make a big deal out of it. You know, for my kids, True, she has an iPad that they can watch shows or whatever when doing her hair, but I have limited iPad time, and I tell her she can't have a phone until she's 12.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:12:52

        Mm-hmm.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:12:53

        And who knows if I'll keep that, but that's-I don't think kids need it other than that. I think they have these amazing phones that are just for calling now. I forget what they're called

    21. JSJay Shetty1:13:03

        Yeah, I know what you... Yeah, same

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:13:04

        But there's no internet access. And so I'm like, "Yes, if you... You know, you could have one of those phones, but just to call me." But otherwise, why? I don't want you looking at these things. They're not on the inter- Like, she's not on Instagram or TikTok or that kind of stuff. I don't think that's necessary at this age.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:13:23

        Mm.

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian1:13:23

        I think it's really damaging.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:13:24

        Mm-hmm.

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian1:13:25

        But I try to not be on those things when I'm around them.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:13:28

        Yeah.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian1:13:28

        Like, we'll film videos, and I post them later, but we, we just think we're making, like, dance videos. But I try not to be on those things around them 'cause they see that.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:13:38

        Yeah.

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian1:13:39

        I picked up the phone when we were at a red light, and True was like, "Mommy, no texting and driving"
31. 1:14:24 – 1:15:28

    Dating as a Mom in Your 40s

    1. JSJay Shetty1:14:24

       You were also saying that dating's something that you'd be open to, at least one date in your 40s-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:14:30

       Yeah. [laughs]

    3. JSJay Shetty1:14:30

       ... I think you said. And I was think-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:14:31

       I have 10 years. [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty1:14:32

       Yeah. That, that's amazing. And I, and I was thinking, like, this idea of dating as a mom is, is hard I'm sure, like, with time and energy and effort and everything else. Like, how does that even fit into that wheelhouse as you're thinking about it, for all the moms out there who are thinking about dating in their 40s, which is very real?

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:14:51

       I don't know if I'm the best one to ask, because I, I genuinely... I have young k- my kids are younger.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:14:57

       Yeah.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:14:57

       And so I am loving that I get to have so much time with them right now. And there's gonna be a time that no matter how much they love me, they're not gonna want to be with me. You know, they're like, "I wanna be with my friends."

    9. JSJay Shetty1:15:10

       Yeah.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:15:10

        And yes, that's gonna hurt, but I get it. I was that kid. And right now I'm truly happy, and I don't feel lonely. I've... Like, I'm so fulfilled with work and my kids, and once they're asleep, like, I get a little bit of alone time, and then I go to sleep and I start again.

32. 1:15:28 – 1:17:31

    How to Date More Intentionally

    1. JSJay Shetty1:15:28

       Listening to you, I'm thinking, like, there's such a... Just even what you're saying and just being happy with where you are, happy with yourself, I wonder w- does the evolved, the version of you that's been doing all this work, how do you think about the right partner now versus how you used to think about it and then, you know-

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:15:46

       I know

    3. JSJay Shetty1:15:46

       ... the quicker version before? Like, how has that impacted what you look for, what you think about?

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:15:51

       What I do love is that now I'm, I am forced to take my time with someone, where before I would love a good love bombing. I'm like, "You love me? Okay." Like, and I would just, like, roll with it, where now I think we could, you know, mildly love bomb-

    5. JSJay Shetty1:16:06

       [laughs]

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:06

       ... but I, I can't do much about it. 'Cause I do love the love and the affirmations.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:16:11

       Yeah.

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:11

       I do love all that. I'm not gonna deny it. But I have to move slow because of my children.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:16:17

       Mm. Mm.

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:18

        And that is a good thing for me.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:16:20

        Yeah.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:21

        I am so used to my routine right now. I'm such a structured person. I don't do a lot of socializing unless it's with my same group of people. And someone said to me, "Why don't you throw, like, an event at your... not an event," but, like, I host a dinner at my house once a month, "and have your friends invite another friend?"

    13. JSJay Shetty1:16:41

        Mm-hmm.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:41

        And not even about for romantic reasons, but just for the fact 'cause dating is a skill.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:16:46

        Yes.

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:46

        Or even socializing. Like, my social battery is empty all the time because I'm not used to using it anymore-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:16:54

        Yeah

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:54

        ... if it's not in the daytime. I'm like, "You want me up past 9:00?"

    19. JSJay Shetty1:16:57

        [laughs]

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:16:58

        That's crazy. Like, to me, I'm like, "How do you stay awake?" I have to get used to staying up a little later, entertaining people, hanging out. So I loved that idea of, like, maybe once a month having a little dinner party with my friends. If it's a group of people, I don't mind if they are around my kids, 'cause it's a group. And just meeting people.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:17:20

        Mm.

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:17:20

        It could be romantic if someone brought someone that I was like, "Okay, I like this person," or it could just be me, you know, sharpening the tool of socializing with people again.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:17:30

        But see, I

33. 1:17:31 – 1:19:05

    Embracing Alone Time

    1. JSJay Shetty1:17:31

       love that idea, because I think you've just hit on something for a lot of people. I think so many people almost we do the extreme. So one extreme is we're love bombing. We get love bombed. We love it.

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:17:41

       Yeah. [laughs]

    3. JSJay Shetty1:17:41

       It doesn't work out. But then the other extreme is we get so comfortable being alone-

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:17:45

       Yes

    5. JSJay Shetty1:17:46

       ... that we don't even know how to engage with others. And I think we kind of oscillate between these two things, where we just go back and forth-

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:17:53

       Right

    7. JSJay Shetty1:17:54

       ... as opposed to I love what you're doing, which is, "Hey, let's create an opportunity for a connection, whether it's romantic or not."

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:17:59

       Right.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:18:00

       "And I'm practicing my skill."

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:01

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:18:01

        "It's not gonna feel like this really daunting thing now when I have a conversation with someone." And it kind of keeps it fresh for us, and I think that's so important for people, because we get so confident and comfortable being alone.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:12

        Totally, 'cause that was me.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:18:13

        Yeah.

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:14

        I have been alone for three years-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:18:16

        Yeah

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:16

        ... and I love it. Like, I'm scared.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:18:19

        Yeah.

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:19

        And I'm like, "Okay, I have to... I love this maybe too much," where that worries me, 'cause I could do this for another five years and be so happy about it, but that's not normal.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:18:28

        No.

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:28

        Like, I need to push myself. And for people that if you don't wanna bring people to your home, you guys could, like, do this at a restaurant and have it be a monthly thing or every other month thing. Like, whatever's workable for your schedule. I just loved that lesson, and I can't do it weekly. Like, I would love to in my brain, but that's too much social battery for me.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:18:48

        [laughs]

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:49

        So I'm like, I could do once a month where I just have a little gathering at my house, and it is a skill that I wanna work on.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:18:55

        Yeah. I love that for you. That's such a great idea.

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:58

        Thank you.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:18:58

        It's brilliant.

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian1:18:58

        You might be invited to one. [laughs]

    27. JSJay Shetty1:19:00

        Oh, I'd love to. Let me know when. I'd love that.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:02

        [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty1:19:02

        I'd love that. That would be so much fun. No, that sounds beautiful.

34. 1:19:05 – 1:23:37

    Leaning Into the Discomfort

    1. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

       And one thing I've noticed about you throughout this whole conversation that I admire so deeply is you just lean into discomfort.Just lean into it

    2. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:14

       Oh my God

    3. JSJay Shetty1:19:15

       And that's so hard to do.

    4. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:18

       Wow, I didn't think of that.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:19:19

       You just lean into it-

    6. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:21

       Wow

    7. JSJay Shetty1:19:21

       ... whether it's the discomfort of forgiveness, the discomfort of moving on, the discomfort of accepting where you are, the discomfort of raising a family, the discomfort of people seeing you as being weak, the discomfort of-

    8. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:31

       Wow, I didn't think of that

    9. JSJay Shetty1:19:32

       ... dealing with external judgment. You just lean into it. Where does that come from? Where did you see it? Where did you experience it now that-

    10. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:38

        Gosh

    11. JSJay Shetty1:19:38

        ... seeing as it sounds like it's the first time hearing it.

    12. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:40

        Yeah, no, my-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:19:41

        Yeah

    14. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:41

        ... wheels are turning right now. I don't know. I mean, I sound like a broken record, but so much of it is my faith.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:19:48

        Yeah

    16. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:48

        And, but also-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:19:49

        That's not boring. It's beautiful

    18. KKKhloé Kardashian1:19:51

        But it is, but I was raised in such a faith-heavy household. My mom and my dad, faith is the foundation of everything, and my dad, we went to Sunday school every Sunday. Like, everything was always about faith, prayers every night-

    19. JSJay Shetty1:20:07

        Mm

    20. KKKhloé Kardashian1:20:07

        ... prayers before food. And I think when you're just raised that way, you learn to rely and lean on your faith whenever you need to. And I'm someone that it's so easy to rely on faith when you're struggling and when something's bad, but I, yes, I go to God when I'm struggling. But I go to God so much more when I'm happy because I am so grateful, and I'm t- telling him thank you for bringing me out of that spot. And I think so many people forget to go to your higher power when you're in the best of times 'cause that's when He wants you to acknowledge Him, too-

    21. JSJay Shetty1:20:40

        Mm-hmm

    22. KKKhloé Kardashian1:20:40

        ... and not just when you need Him. That's easy. Like, don't just call Me for help.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:20:44

        Yeah. [laughs]

    24. KKKhloé Kardashian1:20:44

        Like, I want you to call Me, too, when you're joyful, and there's so much-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:20:48

        Yeah

    26. KKKhloé Kardashian1:20:48

        ... greatness going on. And so I, I do the same, and I think the more that you talk about greatness, the more greatness then surrounds you.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:20:55

        Yeah. I think, I think faith is just such a underestimated part of life.

    28. KKKhloé Kardashian1:21:00

        It's sad. Um, I was watching the Academy Awards the other night, and I barely heard anybody thank God, and at the end, Adrien Brody, um, he was, I think, one of the last speeches, and the very first thing he said was, "I just wanna thank God." And I don't know. That just made... I was like... It was sad to me that not that many people lead with faith anymore, and not that you have to, but-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:21:23

        Yeah

    30. KKKhloé Kardashian1:21:23

        ... it was a big thing that I noticed.

Episode duration: 1:23:37