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Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

Lewis Hamilton ON: EVERYTHING You've Been Taught About Success Is A LIE... | Jay Shetty

Today, I am talking to Lewis Hamilton, 7-time Formula1 world champion, with over a hundred race wins, considered the most successful F1 driver of all time. In 2014, Lewis won BBC's Sports Personality of the Year.

Lewis HamiltonguestJay Shettyhost
Jan 23, 20231h 10mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:11

    Intro

    1. LH

      I think the easiest thing in life is to give up on whatever, you know, whatever you're focused on or whatever you're hopeful for. The hardest thing is to keep going, but we have to. Like, we have to continue to hold on, and I would imagine for so many people out there, that is probably the most difficult thing.

    2. JS

      The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast.

    3. LH

      On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

    4. JS

      Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, I know that our community is dedicated to living happier, healthier, and more healed lives, and I love sitting down with people who are dedicated to their own happiness, their own health, their own healing, and doing that for the world through their work. And I have to be honest, it's not every day that you get to sit down with someone you admire, you're inspired by, you look up to, and someone who is truly the definition of the word GOAT. Uh, I'm talking about the one and only Sir Lewis Hamilton, seven-time Formula1 world champion, someone with over 100 race wins, considered the most successful F1 driver of all time. And Lewis's willingness to embrace what makes him different has defined his values and outlook on life, and in 2014, those values saw him win BBC's Sports Personality of the Year, followed two years later by a position in Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People list. Lewis received both accolades for a second time in 2020, in a year that saw him become a leading voice in the global fight for racial equality. In doing so, he was recognized as British GQs Game Changer of the Year and Powerlist's Most Influential Black Person in the UK. And further to this, Lewis won the 2020 Laureus Sportsman of the Year Award, and most notably, was formally recognized with a knighthood in 2020 New Year's Honors for his outstanding achievements and contribution to motorsports on the track and off the track. Lewis is also a passionate activist for so many underrepresented groups and communities. His Mission 44 is doing incredible work. Please welcome to On Purpose, Lewis Hamilton. Lewis, thank you for being here.

    5. LH

      Thank you so much for having me.

    6. JS

      No, this honestly is a, is a special one for me. It's been one of those ones that, you know, when I first launched the podcast, there were a few names that I wanted to sit down with, and, and you were one of those names. So for me, it's a very special moment, and for this to be your first ever podcast, which you just told me-

    7. LH

      [laughs]

    8. JS

      ... I didn't even know, and you, you [laughs] literally told me this, like, 10 minutes ago, and in my head I'm thinking, "Wow, thank... I- I'm so grateful to have that honor, honestly."

    9. LH

      Oh, no, no.

    10. JS

      That's what I said.

    11. LH

      The honor's mine. I'm really so grateful for everything you do, and so I've been following and listening to you, and you sent me the book a long time ago already, so I really appreciate everything you're doing today.

    12. JS

      Oh, well, thank you, man. Thank you. And, and I'm excited to unpack your journey, because as we said, because it's your first podcast, people have heard parts of you, but, but we don't really understand the depth and the texture of, of Lewis Hamilton. And so I guess I want to start in a, in a different place, and we'll, we'll kind of go through on this journey. I wanted

  2. 3:11 – 4:49

    The hardest thing you have to do to become who you are today

    1. JS

      to ask you, what do you feel is the hardest thing you've had to do in order to be who you are today?

    2. LH

      I think continuing to have the belief in myself and not letting that veer off since I was young, since I've been told from my teachers that I would never amount to nothing. The bullying or the things that you face, the adversity you face, the discrimination, and just continuing to keep your head up, continuing to, to march on ahead, uh, towards your dream, and never losing sight in that. I think that's definitely for sure the most difficult thing, is keeping, keeping your goal and your eyes set on that and not being distracted, um, not giving up. I think the easiest thing in life is to give up on whatever, you know, whatever you're focused on or whatever you're hopeful for. The hardest thing is to cont- to keep going, but we have to. Like, we have to continue to hold on, and I would imagine for so many people out there, that is, that i- that is probably the most difficult thing.

    3. JS

      Yeah. I, I think that's a great answer, because I think people look at you and they assume that you never have to make that choice, right? They see someone in your position, someone who's achieved what you've achieved, and the assumption can be, "Oh, yeah, but he's the greatest. He was, he was just always that way, and he doesn't have to make that choice every day." But as you said, since the beginning of your life, whether it's childhood, whether it's breaking into a sport that wasn't set up for you, there've been so many moments. Let's, let's go back to school. Let's talk about some of that more in depth, because I feel like a lot of people struggle at school, but you kind of went through a lot of altercations and adversities at that time. What were some of the things

  3. 4:49 – 10:13

    How school became traumatizing

    1. JS

      you were hearing, some of the bullying, some of the racism, the experiences that you had that felt limiting or made it feel like it was easier to give up?

    2. LH

      I think for me, I mean, school was the most, probably the most traumatizing and diff- most difficult part of my life.

    3. JS

      Wow.

    4. LH

      Um, I already was being bullied at the age of six. Um, I think at the time, that particular school, I was probably one of three kids of color, and just bigger, stronger bullying kids would throw me around a lot of the time. I was always the last picked in a... You know when you stand in the playground and you're, uh, in the line of when they're picking teams for football? I was always the last one chosen or not even chosen, even if I was better than somebody else. Um, and then the, the constant jabs, the things that are either thrown at you, like bananas, or people that would use the N word just so relaxed, um, people calling you half-cast and, you know, just really not knowing where you fit in. That, for me, was difficult. When you then go into, like, history class and everything you learn in history, there are no pic- people of color in the history that they were teaching us. So I was thinking, "Oh, well, where are the people that look like me?" And co- I mean, for me, in my school, there was only around s- I think there was around seven, maybe six, seven Black kids out of 1,200 kids, and three of us were outs- put outside the headmaster's office all the time. The h- the headmaster just had it out for, for us, and particularly for me, I would say. So, like, just juggling all these different emotions that you're feeling. Plus, I struggled at school. I didn't find out till I was 16 that I was dyslexic. Fortunately, I had a, came across a teacher that was actually caring and, and, um, took me down that road and helped me discover a little bit more about myself and how I can better myself through education. But, um, I think that, for me, was, that was tough. Also, because I was racing every weekend, I would leave on a Thursday night. We would travel, you know, pack up the motor home. We would travel around the country to race on the weekends, and no one else knew. When I'd get back to school, every- all the kids have done normal things on the weekend, and I'd come back and say, "Um, I was racing," and people would be like, "Oh, I've done that before"

    5. JS

      [laughs]

    6. LH

      ... you know, like at the, at the-

    7. JS

      [laughs]

    8. LH

      ... at the theme park or something. But no one really knew what my goal was and could really-- They thought we were, maybe it was a joke. You miss that, a lot of that social interaction also. I was put in all the lowest sets at school and told that if you do well, you can progress, and they never, ever let me progress, no matter how hard I tried. Um, so I really felt that the system was really up against me, and I was kind of swimming against the tide. But I'm so grateful for that, that journey, 'cause that's what built me to the person that I am today. But there were a lot of things that I suppressed, 'cause I, I couldn't go home and say, "Hey," to my-- I didn't feel I could go home and talk to my parents that, you know, "These kids kept calling me the N-word today," or, "I got bullied. I got beaten up at school today," or I, you know, wasn't able to defend myself. I didn't want my dad to think I was not strong. And so I would, you know, if I had tears, I would hold them back. If I had emotions, it would be in a quiet place. And, um, it wasn't really till I started racing that I was able to channel this emotion that I had into my driving. And so when I put this helmet on, Superman was my favorite. I loved how he fought for the people, and I loved how he did the right things, and he was a really inspiring character for me. But again, no superhero was of color, so, you know. But you can still aspire to be someone that's, if they don't look like you, you know? Um, and so I remember going to karate. I remember putting this helmet on in racing, and it felt like it was my cloak, you know? That my superpowers would come out when I was driving, and I was battling with these kids, and I was doing, able to do things that they seemed to not be able to do as well. And that was my love.

    9. JS

      Wow. Yeah, I mean, it's-- My, mine was opposite. I was bullied a lot at school as well. I was one of five people of color in my primary school, and I was also overweight, and so I was bullied for that. And obviously, m- you know, my parents are from Indian backgrounds, and so they'd gone through it much worse than I did when, when they'd moved to England. But the difference was that I would go cry to my mum, and then my mum would come try and save the day in school, and that was the worst.

    10. LH

      [laughs]

    11. JS

      That was so embarrassing. Like, your mum's, like, telling the teacher what happened, and then I'm like, "Oh, no, Mum, don't do this."

    12. LH

      [laughs]

    13. JS

      And then it's even more embarrassing 'cause the kids pick on you, going, "Oh, Mum came to save you."

    14. LH

      Oh, yeah, yeah. Mummy's boy. Yeah. [laughs]

    15. JS

      Yeah, mummy's boy. So that, that, that was my version of it. Uh, I wasn't scared of crying to my mum, but then it, it had, it had different things. But yeah, that is so hard as a kid when you're going through that and you're trying to find yourself. You're trying to figure out what confidence is. You don't even know what that means. You feel like d- not going to school. But then even though you're saying you found it in racing, I mean, racing was similar because you were working class. You're still to this day the only working class Black driver to do as successfully as you have. So not only do you have it at school, you also have it in your passion, like in the thing that is your cloak, is your Superman. So

  4. 10:13 – 17:55

    Growing up with Dad figure

    1. JS

      how does it feel when you're also dealing with it in that area where you've discovered what your passion or your interest is at that age? What does it feel like when you're getting it in that space?

    2. LH

      It's inescapable. Uh, you know, you're, you use that as an escape, but then you're confronted with it also. And so I was just grateful that I had this amazing figure in my dad. You know, I got a, a, you know, my best, one of my best friends, like, his dad was never there. I know there's not many people that have separated parents, and, and being shared between parents is not an easy thing. Um, you know, some days with your mum and some days with your dad. My, my mum was the soft, loving parent. Uh, so that's where I really, I feel like I learned a lot of compassion and empathy. That's where I feel like I get it from her. And my dad was like that strong, like, kind of stronger rock and also just someone that looked like me on and just he would say, "Do your talking on the track. Don't be distracted by it. Don't listen to what they're saying. Do your driving on the track and show-- Let's just be s- be quiet and walk away as winners," you know? Um, so but, you know, again, like your parents, he, my parents went through, or particularly my dad was someone that also faced adversity through his life, and he's like, "I wanna do everything in my power to create a better life for my kid so that they don't feel or experience the things that I have encountered and through my, through my journey." And so but I think for me it was also difficult having biracial. You know, I'm biracial, so having a white mother, mother for example and a Black dad, I knew my dad would understand the racial slurs that are thrown at me. My mum couldn't understand it.

    3. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. LH

      So I couldn't really speak to my mum about it. She was loving, but she'd never been educated within it. She didn't know anything about Black history and slavery, and so it was a very difficult... But, but I had love there, which was the most important thing.

    5. JS

      Yeah.

    6. LH

      Um, but in the racing it was like, you know, like kids, you just wanna enjoy yourself. You wanna be included. And, you know, when you're kind of outcast a little bit, it's, um- It's difficult for kids, you know? And so that's why today, like, I'm like if I'm posting something I hope that when I do click that button, I hope that it is a positive wave for some of the kids out there that are being distracted by all the stuff that's going on around the world.

    7. JS

      Yeah. I mean, I was, I was telling you earlier, I was so grateful, came out to watch you in Austin a couple of weeks ago and got to meet your dad, and I'd heard you talk about your dad in that way before. And so when I met him, I was... it was, I was just, you know, it was nice to share that with him and I was just saying how beautiful it is to see your relationship and, and how it's evolved. But-

    8. LH

      It's not always been that way.

    9. JS

      Yeah, yeah. That's what I thought, yeah. How, yeah, t- to walk us through whatever you feel.

    10. LH

      My dad has been, like, the leader in getting me, you know, he, he had four jobs at one stage just to keep us go-karting. 'Cause when we all started go-karting, most of the people were, majority of the people were from working class families. Um, so but then there are, of course, a few wealthier kids that have slightly better access to equipment and, um, mechanics and all those sorts of things, and my dad was my mechanic. So it was just me and him on the road and, and my stepmom, Linda. Um, she would be there supporting, um, making sure that we're fully clothed, making sure that we, we've eaten and we're hydrated, all those sorts of things through the weekend, preparing my kit. Um, so it was very much a family outing. It was a family kind of, um, family weekend. We did it as a family. Um, we traveled together. My little brother would be on the road with us as well, who's a mega inspiration. You've definitely got to speak to him one day. Um, born with cerebral palsy, um, when I was seven, and is a speaker today. So he's, and racing. He's done, he's defied all the odds and-

    11. JS

      Wow

    12. LH

      ... uh, even though he's seven years younger than me, still very much an inspiration. But the thing with my dad was he was, he b- he was my manager all the way till I was, like, 20. I got to f- we got to Formula 1 and he was, he worked so hard. He, his work ethic for me was, that, that's was inspiring for me, seeing how hard he worked. The time he gets up in the morning, the little sleep that he would have, end of his day in the garage working on the go-kart preparing for the weekend, packing up the truck and, um, getting us to where we are, mechanicing, learning to be a better mechanic and, and still weighing all these different things. It was quite phenomenal to see. Um, but I think it was difficult for him to then show me love. Sometimes you just want a hug from your dad, you know? Or when you're facing these things you want to be able to be embraced. But, um, when I think I got to when I was 22, 23, s- it got really intense when I got to Formula 1 because all of a sudden you're thrown into... You go through carting and cars. You don't go to school to, to learn to-

    13. JS

      Mm

    14. LH

      ... speak to the media.

    15. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. LH

      You, you're literally thrown into the pit, and at the time I didn't have management o- other than my dad. Um, my stepmom would book flights and trips. But, um, I didn't have PR. I didn't have, um, anybody to help protect me or prepare me for things.

    17. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. LH

      Driving, I was good, I would say.

    19. JS

      [laughs]

    20. LH

      But in these things is where a lot of mistakes happened. Um, you've got the, the kind of all the media tension and you have to, so you're just learning on the go-

    21. JS

      Mm-hmm

    22. LH

      ... which was very difficult for a youngster, I think.

    23. JS

      Yeah, absolutely.

    24. LH

      And, and also I just, you wanted to try and live some sort of normal, normal life, but nothing's normal for you at the time. And I think for me and my dad, we just, we were really bumping heads at one stage. It's like, "I really just want you to be my dad so we can, let's go and have fun. Let's go and have a laugh." We hadn't had that for a long, long time. And so, um, eventually I d- I decided to s- part ways from my dad and I was like, "I'm gonna start making some of the decisions for myself and the mistakes that I'm gonna need to make." And there was definitely a period of time where we spoke less. Um, but we both have worked so hard to come back together and we have one of the greatest re- you know, he's the first person I want to call when I finish a race, um, because I know he knows what it's like. He was there from day one. And so, you know, he's been to the last two races with me. He's probably gonna come to the next one. There's days where I do feel like I'm not enough. There's days where I don't feel like I'm good enough, and people will be like, "Yeah, but you've won seven world titles." I'm like, "Yeah, but still there's days where I-

    25. JS

      Mm

    26. LH

      ... question." "No, you still got it. You still... Are you st- can you still be the best? Yes, you can." And so I have to just always, I'm having that conversation with myself often. But my dad's also there. Sometimes I'll say something that's maybe not the most positive, and he'll be the one there just reaffirming, "No, you've got this. Believe in yourself." And it's so important for people to have people like that around them.

    27. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    28. LH

      And I support myse- I surround myself with other positive people as well, and we continue. I think it's all our job to lift every, as many, you know, everyone up, right? I want everyone around me to win and-

    29. JS

      Yeah

    30. LH

      ... um, and to become the best versions of themselves, so.

  5. 17:55 – 22:39

    Success is really short-lived

    1. JS

      kind of processed that as time's gone on, and was there a time when it was unhealthy and difficult, and has it got better or is it something you're always working on?

    2. LH

      So on one side of things, you know, I struggled at school, as I said. So the teachers would write these reports that I was not focused or I wasn't doing well and, and I remember the fear of that report every year, and I'd try so hard to do well, and then these teachers, I don't know if teachers out there realize when they write those reports what's happening back at home, whether you have an abusive A household or, you know, the, the stress of that was, was difficult. I feel in racing if I c- if I would win, I could see a smile on my dad's face, and it was really like, "Okay, if I do well at this, I know that I'll be accepted," you know? Um, but I gotta work double hard to be at ... I've gotta always be first. I always laugh about the whole if you're not first, you're last.

    3. JS

      [laughs]

    4. LH

      'Cause [laughs] um, literally whilst that's obviously I've not been first my whole life, first was everything.

    5. JS

      Yeah.

    6. LH

      Um, in order to be accepted, in order to fit in, and maybe to be appreciated. Um, not only in, within my relationship perhaps with my dad but then also around my friends. And it wasn't until I got older I realized it's about the bigger picture. But when you have success, it's so short-lived. It's like it really is really short-lived. You win a race, then you go back home, and you have big c- as a racing driver, you know, the weekend's so intense. You've seen it. There's so much energy, so much ... It's really, really a sh- in a, a stressful environment for everyone that's working within it. Then you go home, and there's a huge comedown like one or two days later, and you're trying to balance those emotions, that emotional rollercoaster. Um, and learning to kind of channel that and figure out ways to keep it balanced with a, with your routine and those sorts of things has been really key for me. But I think during, uh, the last couple, last few years really understanding that it's about the bigger picture. Um, I'm fighting for something far greater than winning a race. I'm really fighting for change in the world, you know? We're more divided than ever I would say. It's devastating. I can't watch the news. It's devastating. Every- there's so much happening. But there are so many great people out there that are doing really great things, and I wanna be one of th- a, I wanna be a part of that-

    7. JS

      Mm

    8. LH

      ... inspirational energy bubble that people like yourselves are, are a part of. Um, because we wanna cr- we, we need to create a, a brighter future. We need to create better future leaders. Look how many, look how bad our leaders are that are in governments, you know? Like-

    9. JS

      Yeah

    10. LH

      ... we need to be inspiring the next generation of, of, of thought leaders, um, that are positive. And, um, yeah. So that's what I'm trying to be a part of every day, and so I'm really trying to focus on my intentions as you were talking about, like setting your intentions each day. Um, I'm trying to learn new tools that I didn't have when I was a kid. I didn't ha- I didn't know about yoga. I didn't know about meditation. Um, I didn't have podcasts to listen to, good people to listen to and, uh, and aspire to kind of help me put on the right path, so.

    11. JS

      Yeah.

    12. LH

      Um, yeah. We've got a lot of work to do, and there's almost not enough time here on this planet, right? We're here for such a short time really in the scale of the universe.

    13. JS

      Yeah, but I think you're one of those people that, you know, and that's, when we first connected, that was one of the biggest reasons for me that I saw you using your platform for a bigger purpose. And I was like, "Oh, that's fascinating." Like, that's so interesting to me because that's a choice too. I think today we kind of assume that if someone has a platform or if someone's, you know, number one in their field, or if someone's got followers that they should talk about stuff. We kind of assume that anyone who has followers should talk about stuff. First of all, I don't think that's the case. I think a lot of people choose not to. Uh, but, but you were someone that stood out to me massively where I was just like, "Wow, this person's really not just winning on, on the track but is thinking about how winning on the track transfers to what you can do off the track because of the influence, because of your network, because of your impact." And I find that to be really the missing link for so many people because I always say that your purpose is something not just that makes you happy. It's when you use what makes you happy to serve other people, like when you use it to, to impact other people's lives. When did that drop for you? Like when did that click for you? Like were you ever ... I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a transition when you're saying that, well, you know, winning, like maybe get the nod from my dad, and obviously I was bullied and then I'm winning, but then I'm number one at something. Like

  6. 22:39 – 28:51

    We often live in fear of what people think

    1. JS

      was there a point at which number one didn't satisfy you, or was there a point at which the success that came from it or, or you didn't actually have to get dissatisfied, you just found that there was a better way to be successful? Does that make sense?

    2. LH

      The part f- that was striking when you were just saying that, for me it was, like I feel like we often live in fear-

    3. JS

      Mm

    4. LH

      ... of what people think. Um, how are you gonna be judged? How are you gonna be received? Uh, if you s- you're very outspoken, are you gonna lose your job? You gonna be fired? I've always been an outspoken person. I think that's just been a quality. I'm n- never been a follower.

    5. JS

      Mm.

    6. LH

      Um, I don't like to conform to how people expect or pe- of what people expect from you. As I said, I was having a success, and I was like, "Okay, now I'm on the, I'm at the top. What can I do with it?"

    7. JS

      Yeah.

    8. LH

      And there are so many causes. There are so many problems out there, and there are so m- so many amazing causes, and which one, you know, there's only one of you. So like what, where do you put the focus? And that's take, it took a long, long time to really find what that was for me. I think for me education was something that I felt extremely passionate about because I'd, I'd been out to India. I'd been out into some of the really poorest places like Manila, and seeing young kids who are like us but begging for food and not having s- the same opportunities, and for me that was, that broke my heart, and realized how privileged w- we are and how fortunate we are. But I was like, "I wanna be working with people out there that are trying to create more." You know, there's over 100 million kids that don't have access to school-

    9. JS

      Mm-hmm

    10. LH

      ... or education, so how can I get involved in that? So aligning yourself with people that do. But I think I was, I was winning, and it was giving me that tip of happiness, but then I would kinda drop back down to normality, and there was something missing, and it was that purpose really.

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. LH

      Or understanding what that purpose is and understanding what- Why you've been put here, why you've been given the, the platform that you've, that you've been given. Why were the only, you know, only people of color this whole time through it all? And when I started speaking about, um, diversity, people were like, "Oh, you wanna get more people of color in as, as racing drivers?" There's only 20 of us, so as I know, it- there's 40,000, 40, 50,000 jobs. There's thousands of engineering jobs in the background, and there's such a lack of diversity coming through. I wanna be a part of shifting that narrative and shifting that conversation and having people be- question themselves and have those difficult conversations with, with people. So I first, I just started by having those difficult conversations with my boss. And one of the things he brings up that he said that hit him hard, I said, "Have you ever thought of, uh, as a white person walking into the paddock, into the race weekend paddock-

    13. JS

      Mm-hmm

    14. LH

      ... and being the only white person there?" He's like, he's like, "I hadn't even thought of that." And I said, "Well, that's what it's like for someone like me." When I'm in the room, you noticed. You noticed that out of 50 people in a meeting, you're the only person, the Black person there. And it's not because we are less.

    15. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. LH

      It's because there are these in- barriers within society through education that are limiting people to be the best they can be.

    17. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. LH

      So my job is to be empowering and, uh, improving representation. I'm really, really passionate, like Black equity as well, so that's why I got involved with the Denver Broncos.

    19. JS

      Denver Broncos. Yeah, yeah.

    20. LH

      Yeah. And usually when I'm in conversation with sponsors or companies, I'm like, "Hey, so what i- how diverse is your team? What are you doing about diversity and inclusion? How are you creating a better work- workspace for people?" That's what I wanna be a part of. I, the success can come later, and that's, that will be along the way, but if you're not asking those questions or you're not tackling those issues, then we're not aligned.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. LH

      And so all of them, pretty much every partner that we have, and we have a lot of partners within our team, I've asked these really difficult questions, and they're like, "Oh, you know what? But we can do more." I'm like, "Well, let's do it."

    23. JS

      [laughs]

    24. LH

      You know?

    25. JS

      Yeah.

    26. LH

      And so I've think I've grown very close with my, like Mercedes-Benz and Daimler.

    27. JS

      Yeah.

    28. LH

      They've been so open that we changed the car from silver to black in 2020. And as again, I said to them like, "The car's been silver forever. It's always been the Silver Arrows." And I was like, "Imagine if we changed the car to black, what that could, you know, us turning up and arriving, it's how you show up, and it's how, you know, imagine the message we can send." And so we had the black car for the whole year, and we didn't even really talk much about it. We just let it be.

    29. JS

      Mm.

    30. LH

      And we won with it, and that's when I won my seventh world title with that car, so.

  7. 28:51 – 42:26

    Is it lonely in the racing field?

    1. JS

      Do you sometimes feel that the only people you can relate to are the people that are racing against you, and then do you kind of feel, is there a loneliness in that experience, or is that kind of like a power in that as well?

    2. LH

      Definitely the other drivers, I do feel that there's more, we have a lot more in common than we think. But we're so competitive, and a lot of us have our defense. Like, you wanna beat the guy-

    3. JS

      Yeah

    4. LH

      ... but then you like the guy. You might like the person outside the car, but you can't show that.

    5. JS

      [laughs]

    6. LH

      Like, there's this whole psychological battle you're having with yourself and getting in the way of yourself a lot of the time. So I, I really feel like as an older driver, I'm trying to be more, like reaching out to youngsters and, um, because they're the future, you know. Um, and I'm excited to see some of these younger drivers that are coming through are so, so talented. I don't know if they've got the best structure around them, like I may not, uh, like I didn't necessarily have the ultimate structure that I perhaps have now. So just try to be a kind of, um, a positive light to them. But n- naturally, none of them are, are, are Black, and none of them have necessarily faced the same as me, but they've faced their own challenges and, and things about respecting that with, with- within everybody, and I've tried to be, create allies necessarily, like in having the difficult conversations with some of them.

    7. JS

      Mm.

    8. LH

      Um, I mean, I'm so grateful for, I've had a couple of them that really took the knee with me in 2020.

    9. JS

      Mm.

    10. LH

      Um, just on that, you know, my dad was, going back to how my dad-

    11. JS

      Yeah

    12. LH

      ... my dad like never let me cry as a kid. He said that's a sign of weakness. Like, "Don't e- let me ever see you shed a tear." So I remember just holding back through those difficult times as a kid, holding back most of that stuff. In 2020, I cried. I hadn't cried for at least, I think at least 10 years, maybe more. It was, there was a lot of bottled-up stuff that came up that I had not realized that I didn't even know about suppressing a, a pain or a feeling. So I remember kind of being on my knees thinking, "Now what is happening in the world? I've got to, I've gotta be outspoken. I've gotta take that chance because if I don't do it, then no one's gonna do it."

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. LH

      "If I don't, if I don't take the knee, if I don't let people like me know that I care and I hear you and I'm, I'm with you and I'm gonna do something about it, I'm gonna risk it all. I don't care if my partners wanna drop me because they don't wanna be associated with this narrative. I don't..." I'm like, a- and I literally let go of all the fear, and that's why I went, came f- so forward with it. And I know it's not easy for everyone to do that. Um, but I just wanna really and try to encourage people out there to, to be themselves, to speak out if they've got a problem. If they're seeing something within their work, working environment or experiencing something, you gotta be outspoken about it. And there's a right way to do it. The first day I was gonna take the knee, I remember I, I didn't feel like I could tell my team. I was like, 'cause I kn- I felt that they wouldn't understand how important it is for me to do this this day. So I remember I had a, my Black Lives Matter, uh, shirt hidden, and I just wore it out there, and I, I went ahead with it and-

    15. JS

      So no one knew?

    16. LH

      No one knew.

    17. JS

      Wow.

    18. LH

      But every- uh, the sport had built and made all these T-shirts like, um, we race as one-

    19. JS

      Yeah

    20. LH

      ... slogan. And they gave these T-shirts to all the, to everybody. I was like, "I'm not wearing that. That's not what this is about."

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. LH

      "And so this is what I'm doing."

    23. JS

      And this was around George Floyd, right?

    24. LH

      Yeah.

    25. JS

      The murder of George Floyd.

    26. LH

      And afterwards, my team were like, "Well, why didn't you, if you just told us, we could have prepared better." But I had this fear that they would try and stop me perhaps.

    27. JS

      Mm.

    28. LH

      But that was just a fear. Um, they've been massively supportive through the whole thing. I would-- my hope was that, you know, kids would be watching and be like, "What i- what i- what is that? Why is he taking a knee? What, what, what does that shirt mean? What is going on, Dad, Mom?" And then the, the parents be in a, in an awkward position having to explain it maybe.

    29. JS

      Mm.

    30. LH

      But I think what was really encouraging for me, I think when we started really getting into the whole diversity inclusion, we did the research. There was only 3% out of 2,000 people in the, the team. There's 3% diversity. So since then, we've been on this mission. The team have started new projects. We've discovered that they, the sport generally hires from one group of universities, which is not diverse. And if there are any young Black students that go there, they're twice as unlikely to be hired when they come out, uh, compared to their counterparts, and also paid less. So there's like this, all these things that perhaps people didn't know. And so-

  8. 42:26 – 44:24

    When you’re too focused on one thing

    1. LH

      athletes, the f- we focus so much on that being the best you can be in that one thing that the other things that you also love, like if it's playing an instrument or if it's writing scripts, like, it all falls, everything falls away and-

    2. JS

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... um, how can you com- compartmentalize staying in the, in the zone, in the focus lane? But also building up some of those other skills and discovering other passions. You know, people s- you've heard people tell LeBron, "Shut up and dribble." Like-

    4. JS

      Yeah

    5. LH

      ... that's, there, there's a lot of people put you in a box and say this, you can only do one thing. But I've, as I've seen and spoken to some people that are active and retired, a lot of them say when, particularly when they retire, that they, everything kind of fell apart. Like, everything fell to the ground. They had nothing to back it up with, and they hadn't discovered what they're doing next.

    6. JS

      Yeah.

    7. LH

      So then they go through this emotional journey, um, of, of discovery, but it takes time. So I'm, like, trying to learn from those things and applying them and find the other things that I'm passionate about. So I generally feel today that I have lots of things in the pipeline that when I do stop, it's gonna be, like, so grateful.

    8. JS

      [laughs]

    9. LH

      But I have something better that I'm-

    10. JS

      Yeah

    11. LH

      ... moving on to.

    12. JS

      Yeah.

    13. LH

      Um, but I, I have no doubts that I'll ... Oh, me and my dad will always have to go to the go ca- go-kart track or something, you know?

    14. JS

      [laughs]

    15. LH

      I'm always gonna be competitive.

    16. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    17. LH

      I can't ... That's literally a strain in my DNA that's just never gonna, gonna shift. I'm com- we're competitive at everything.

    18. JS

      I'm happy to hear that. It's, it's, it's, I'm sure that's refreshing. It's great for people to also hear that even to inspire young people or inspire anyone who's got to a place in their career where they know that there's a certain moment where things are gonna wind down, but then they're gonna transition. I think, I don't think we celebrate the transitions enough in life, and life is made up of transitions.

    19. LH

      Absolutely.

    20. JS

      Every-

    21. LH

      And people think that it's maybe less or something, but it's-

    22. JS

      Yeah

    23. LH

      ... it's, it's not about that.

    24. JS

      Yeah, exactly. So it's fascinating you found that. What are some of these, like you said, like, I'm do- you know, I've been doing jumps, I've been doing this with my friends.

  9. 44:24 – 48:58

    Being comfortable with your own thoughts

    1. JS

      What are some of the routines that you've put into place to help you manage your mindset? Because I feel like you're, you said that being at 200 miles per hour for the duration of a race is like being in flow for you. That means you're extremely comfortable with your own thoughts-

    2. LH

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... extremely comfortable with being in a high-stress, high-pressure environment, but being just with your own self. Talk to us about how you ... I mean, it sounds like that's always been the case, but what have you done to become more and more comfortable with that?

    4. LH

      Yeah, I think naturally there's a natural ability, right? But, um, like being able to focus for an hour and 45 minutes without making mistakes and-

    5. JS

      [laughs] That's in- that's literally insane. It's unbelievable.

    6. LH

      Dealing with the pressures. Um, a, a friend actually asked me last night, 'cause I talk about we lose a lot of race, a lot of weight in the race.

    7. JS

      Yes.

    8. LH

      Like, sometimes you can lose up to 10 pounds, like four kilos, and people are like, "Whoa, I need to be a ra-" particularly in America, they're like, "Oh, I need to be a racing driver,"

    9. JS

      [laughs]

    10. LH

      ... um, for the weight loss. But with this question that my friend asked me the other day, it's like, where does the, where does the weight go? Like-

    11. JS

      Yeah

    12. LH

      ... because my suit doesn't ... Uh, 'cause afterwards I weigh less, but the ... I'm like, "So it must evaporate somewhere." [laughs] So I've, I've gotta figure out where all that weight actually truly goes, 'cause it als- obviously is in s- in sweat, but that's like messed my mind up now. Um, but the suit definitely is obviously a little bit heavier. But, um, it's about gaining tools and I think as, when I was younger, I didn't have ... I knew how to arrive at the race. I channeled the, the so- the, the, this emotion that I had through whatever those difficulties were into my driving. So s- laser focused. Like, if you watch a video of me when I was five years old on Blue Peter, you'll see I'm just laser focused. But, um, being able to control emotions, being able to be calm and present, staying centered, there are loads of obviously different methods that people can use. The things that I try to, that I've started to incorporate over the years more in my life is things like stretching, uh, things like, um, yoga and meditation has been a real ... That for me was something that I never thought that that ... I kinda turned a blind eye to it when I was younger. Thought that's not gonna be helpful. But being able to be, sit still for a second and listen to the noises around you, um, and understand you wanna tap into that kind of inner child or whatever it may be. That's for me been, taking that moment for yourself each day, treating yourself with love and being kind to yourself, you know? 'Cause I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself.

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. LH

      And that's been a process. Uh, doing things that, being purposeful and, and having real set intentions each day, no, no matter how big or small. And, you know, when I wake up, I'm looking in the mirror, brushing your teeth, then stop for a second, say, "Okay, this, today's gonna be the day. Today's gonna be great." Um, and no matter what you're faced with, you know, just whatever you come out with.

    15. JS

      Yeah, yeah, talking to yourself.

    16. LH

      Also speaking to people I think is very important. I think as a kid, as I said, I didn't feel like I could speak to people. Like, I didn't feel like I could tell my mom about these experiences. I felt embarrassed. I couldn't tell my dad, so I thought he would feel, think less of me. Couldn't talk to any of the teachers, couldn't tell my, most of my friends. Most of them, uh, weren't particularly of color, so ... But finding, learning to be open and speak to people-

    17. JS

      Mm

    18. LH

      ... find someone to speak to, whether it's a therapist or whatever, that's, that's been a huge, um, help. Um, I don't ne- necessarily have a therapist as such-

    19. JS

      Yeah, yeah

    20. LH

      ... but someone that I'm able to then just have sh- shoot the shit with basically and-

    21. JS

      Yeah

    22. LH

      ... um, and confide in and trust. Like, trust has been something that I've never had. I didn't trust anybody through those experiences I had as a kid.

    23. JS

      Mm.

    24. LH

      And it's been very, very hard to build trust with people. But creating allies, finding things that, uh, that you have in common with people, like my boss, for example. Him and I just breaking each other down and then just having, realizing that we're similar in many, many ways-

    25. JS

      Mm

    26. LH

      ... but also very different. But that's not what should divide us. We can then be allies, and so that's what we're working on, being the most diverse team. We're working on pushing. We have, we've started Ignite, which is about getting, you know, improving that pipeline of into motorsport for people, um, from underserved communities and there's so much work to do.

    27. JS

      You're doing it though, man.

    28. LH

      Uh, I'm trying to.

    29. JS

      Yeah.

    30. LH

      I'm trying to, and, you know, to the point you were asking earlier, like, has, has enough been done? Absolutely not

  10. 48:58 – 50:38

    Mission 44

    1. JS

      And is that your goal to, to sort in the industry and then expand out, or you're starting, you're starting across the board anyway?

    2. LH

      Yeah. Yeah. That, well, with the team, we're, we're, it's, we started a, an organization which called Ignite, which we both fund, and that is focused on the sport, motorsport in general. But, um, Mission 44 is focused on a much l- you know, societal challenges and barriers and, and education. And, um, that's our fo- focus in the UK at the moment, but I wanna bring that over to the States-

    3. JS

      Absolutely, man

    4. LH

      ... um, you know, hopefully by at least 2024. Um, also just been to Africa, and there is so much beauty there, and I, I really, really wanna have an imp- you know, really wanna help there as well, so-

    5. JS

      Yeah

    6. LH

      ... um, we will continue to expand. But we're one of the f- one of the few Black founding nonprofit organizations in the UK, and with, um, Black CEO, for example, a very diverse, uh, group of people. Um, and just having those conversations with people of just what a diverse workforce means and how that ben- can benefit you when you have people from different backgrounds-

    7. JS

      Mm-hmm

    8. LH

      ... all coming up with a diverse, um, diverse thought and creation, it's, that's how you have more success.

    9. JS

      Yeah. It's a no, it's a no-brainer when you hear it, and you're just like, "Wow, that makes so much sense," and creativity's better, and you, you'd be able to come up with far more innovative ideas, and you've got so many more cultures now being celebrated, involved. And I, I feel like it's, it's interesting to me that the world hasn't caught on with that yet. Like, it's, it's interesting that even despite there being progress, there's not enough progress. But what, what is the block? Like, what is

  11. 50:38 – 55:17

    Learning to be selfless

    1. JS

      the stop? Is it a mindset? Is it just habits and laziness? Like, what is the actual, like if you got to the core of it from everyone you've been speaking to, like what are you, what is the issue? Is the issue that, yeah, is the issue just laziness and just, "Ah, this is the way things have always been"? Or is it, or is there actually like a setup?

    2. LH

      I don't have the answer to it.

    3. JS

      No. Yeah.

    4. LH

      I, I ask that question all the time, and I come up with lots of different theories in my mind.

    5. JS

      [laughs]

    6. LH

      Um, sometimes I'm like, "Maybe people don't, just don't care."

    7. JS

      Mm.

    8. LH

      Um, maybe people's problems are so big that they don't have time to focus on other things, and-

    9. JS

      Mm

    10. LH

      ... it's hard enough just to do the thing that you're focused on or just overcoming the issue that you're g- overcoming. So how am I gonna have more time to-

    11. JS

      Yeah

    12. LH

      ... to speak about these things? Why should I take the risk and risk my next step? And so I feel like it's about learning to be selfless, right?

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. LH

      And, um, which is difficult to do if you're not being, loving yourself and not in a good place.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. LH

      So I think it all comes to us at, hopefully at time, at a, at a certain point in our lives. Um, but also, you know, we live in a time where like social media is so s- it's such a dangerous, it's such a powerful tool, but it also can be so dangerous and so dividing. And I see people out there today, and there's people that I admire that I'm fol- that, that I would follow, and I'd be like, how are they projecting something that's not necessarily healthy for you, for people out there? How are they projecting they're not using this platform to be more inspirational or, or be more positive? And there's loads that are, but then I don't, you can't judge, so that's their journey. All you can continue to do is try to, you know, with that Maya Angelou quote, it's about being, shining your light as bright as you can possibly get it and hope that by doing it, you, I think you automatically, uh-

    17. JS

      Yeah

    18. LH

      ... encourage the people around you to wanna do the same.

    19. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. LH

      And I never truly understood that till I see the team that I work with, how we all inspire each other, how with this year, for example, we've had the, you know, 2022 has been one of the hardest years for us as a team, um, as we didn't build a great car and we sh- had our struggles, as many people do, and how we've had to all come closer. And the relationship I've had with people, like I've worked with this team for 10 years, and there's conversations we've had this year, people have opened up like they've never opened up before. People have cried. Uh, like it's been, it's been beautiful to see.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. LH

      And I feel like we're some, a, a far better team than we've ever been before because we're living with intention. We're actually talking about impact. The t- everyone in the team has gone and had diversity inclusion training. No one's been kind of like, "Uh, I'm not, I'm not going through that class. Why do I have to go and learn what diversity and inclusion is about? I'm, I'm white. It doesn't impact me."

    23. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. LH

      You know, people are like, "I understand it doesn't, I w- wouldn't necessarily notice it, but I wanna understand it more so I can be better in my working environment."

    25. JS

      Yeah.

    26. LH

      And it's been unbelievable.

    27. JS

      That's amazing.

    28. LH

      Also, leaders within our sport are now... And we are on a road to being a more diverse and more inclusive sport, but I think my job is to continuously make sure that it, that, that same e- the effort that we're putting in now doesn't kind of fall away and become kind of, you know, just because it was, um, trending.

    29. JS

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    30. LH

      That it's actually something that's on the top of the list. Sustainability is on the top of our list, and, like, real true core values. We don't go out of our way or, you know, 'cause a lot of people, like, uh, it's very easy to kind of be led by money-

  12. 55:17 – 1:01:14

    Trying to be better everyday

    1. LH

      I'm by far perfect.

    2. JS

      No, I, yeah, no.

    3. LH

      And I think that's, like it's not about being perfect, it's about just every day, one step at a time, trying to be better, trying to do more.

    4. JS

      Yeah.

    5. LH

      And, um, I'm learning a lot about myself. I've had to break myself down in order to be able to be better and-

    6. JS

      What do you mean by breaking yourself down?

    7. LH

      Uh, well just when you, when I told you about like all those barriers you put up over-

    8. JS

      Yes, yes

    9. LH

      ... time to protect yourself, and then kind of like knocking those barriers down.

    10. JS

      Yes.

    11. LH

      And it's enabled me to connect with more people. It's enabled me to realize my place in the world, and I don't feel like I don't belong anymore. I feel like, uh, you know, I've got a place and I've got a purpose, and that's, and I think a lot of people are struggling to find that purpose, but it's okay. You'll, you will find it. Do not give up. Keep getting up, you know? Like, just keep saying those things to yourself and you will eventually find it. And, you know, you're already living in your purpose and are having such a huge impact on so many people, you know, telling stories, which, uh, is, it's amazing to see. Um, I started this production company inspired by s- like Kobe and so many out there, but stories for me, storytelling, I watch a lot of movies. I don't know about you, but-

    12. JS

      Yeah, I love movies.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. JS

      Especially sports movies. [laughs]

    15. LH

      Yeah, like when I go home-

    16. JS

      [laughs]

    17. LH

      ... I'll like, I'll, you know, order takeaway or make myself-

    18. JS

      Yeah

    19. LH

      ... some pasta or something like that. And then I put the plate in front of me and I can't eat till I've found something to watch.

    20. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    21. LH

      Like my s- my g- escape is watching a movie and I always like to find something hopefully inspiring.

    22. JS

      Yeah, same.

    23. LH

      Um, but when I, the reason I created this, um, production company is 'cause, you know, u- until recently we didn't have any people of color as superheroes. We, I think these stories, storytelling is so, so important for people out there, for inspiring people and, and I wanna make sure that in and everything that I do, every project that I work on is with a diverse-

    24. JS

      Mm

    25. LH

      ... workforce. Like I'm doing this Formula1 movie with, um, Brad Pitt and Joe Kosinski and, um, but my job is to make sure that the, it's diverse behind the camera as it is on screen. The story is empowering and uplifting.

    26. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. LH

      Um, it's not, there's no BS in terms of-

    28. JS

      [laughs]

    29. LH

      ... the racing and, uh, and hopefully, yeah, one kid will watch it and-

    30. JS

      Yeah

  13. 1:01:14 – 1:10:34

    Lewis on Fast Five

    1. JS

      uh, we, we end every episode with a Fast Five, which means every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

    2. LH

      Okay.

    3. JS

      And we ask these same questions to every guest that's ever been on the show. So-

    4. LH

      I should be prepared for that, 'cause I've seen you.

    5. JS

      [laughs]

    6. LH

      So [laughs] but I'm not.

    7. JS

      The, the, the f- the first question is, what's the best advice you've ever heard or received?

    8. LH

      I think it was literally from my dad, uh, never give up. That's been like the slogan in the back of my mind every single day. The other one would be, um, just that you'll always be learning, and that's what I learned from Nelson Mandela.

    9. JS

      Mm.

    10. LH

      He was like, "I'm 90 and I'm still learning today." And like, I was like, "What, what can you tell me?" He's like, "I'm still learning today, and it's okay to be learning. You're always gonna be learning something new and growing, so..."

    11. JS

      Wow. That's beautiful. I love it.

    12. LH

      Not really like wow, but like-

    13. JS

      No, that is wow. No-

    14. LH

      ... you know, it's pretty basic, but-

    15. JS

      No, but it's not, it's, it's powerful knowing he said that.

    16. LH

      Yeah.

    17. JS

      As in the fact that he said that on his 90th birthday-

    18. LH

      At 90, yeah

    19. JS

      ... that is powerful because-

    20. LH

      Yeah, shoot

    21. JS

      ... it's kinda like-

    22. LH

      Got a long way to go [laughs]

    23. JS

      Yeah, and it's like a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people feel by 90, especially him, he has so much wisdom to share.

    24. LH

      Yeah.

    25. JS

      But the fact that [laughs] his wisdom was I'm just learning, that's-

    26. LH

      Yeah

    27. JS

      ... I'm still learning, that's pretty cool.

    28. LH

      Yeah.

    29. JS

      All right, second question. Uh, what's the worst advice you ever heard or received?

    30. LH

      Give up. [laughs]

Episode duration: 1:10:34

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