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Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

Lewis Howes: You're 69 Minutes Away From NEVER Being Broke Again

What if feeling wealthy has little to do with the numbers in your bank account? Lewis Howes explores the surprising psychology behind our relationship with money and why so many of us feel trapped regardless of our financial status.

Lewis HowesguestJay Shettyhost
Mar 10, 20251h 9mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 0:36

    Intro

    1. LH

      Irrelevant of whether you have money or not, when you are poor, when you're broke, when you're struggling financially, it feels really hard to feel abundant and rich. But in order to get out of it, it's not feeling worse about it, it's starting to feel better about me, better about my values, my character, my kindness, my generosity, and seeing how can I add value to others? How can I get into a richness inside of me to serve and take care of me at the same time?

    2. JS

      The number one health and wellness podcast.

    3. SP

      Jay Shetty.

    4. SP

      Jay Shetty.

    5. SP

      The one, the only Jay Shetty.

    6. JS

      [laughs]

  2. 0:36 – 6:21

    Awareness Around Money and Finances

    1. JS

      The world in which we're living today doesn't seem to distribute wealth in a way that allows people to access it. Some people have been set up really badly. They had poor access to education. They didn't really know what jobs were available. People are working really, really hard and not taking that much home. People are coming at it from a place of pain, of desperation, of stress. So everyone already knows that money's stressful, and your first point here is make money easy.

    2. LH

      Yes.

    3. JS

      And so I wanna ask you, when someone's coming at money, our relationship with money is already at a place... It's kind of like finding love. We're desperate for it. We're stressed by it. We're paralyzed by it. We feel the pressure for it. What do you do when you're feeling all of that? What's the first thing you need to do?

    4. LH

      Step one is you need awareness. And again, you probably say this so often, and people have probably heard this so frequently, but if you don't have awareness on your attachment style towards money and how your nervous system is when you receive money or when money leaves you, when you have to pay your bills or give money away. I want people to create just a scenario of awareness around how you feel and how you think when you receive money, when you pay money, when you look at your bank account, when you open your purse or your wallet, and just notice, how do I feel?

    5. JS

      Mm.

    6. LH

      Do I have shallow breathing? Do I feel relaxed? Do I feel anxious? Do I feel scarce? Do I feel abundant? Just step one is have awareness on, how do I feel, and how do I think about my money, the money I have, the money that's coming in, and the money that's going out?

    7. JS

      Yeah.

    8. LH

      That's step one. And when you can just have awareness around it, you can start to say, [smacks lips] "Is my relationship the one that I wanna be having? Do I feel really secure around money? If not, okay, what's something I can think about?" First, let me think about my money story, the story of my life around money. We grow up as kids, and we watch our parents in their relationship, and we tend to develop the relationship style of our parents unless we learn how to heal as a teenager and have some type of breakthrough. We're creating some type of attachment style based on what we see with our parents. But think about all the conversations your parents had around money. And if your parents didn't have a secure relationship, if they fought, did they fight about money? Were you involved in the conversation about how expensive things were, about your school or sports or programs that they had to pay for they couldn't afford? Did they argue? Did they have challenges? Did they get divorced? Money is one of the biggest reasons people get divorced. It's one of the biggest arguments in marriage as well. So just notice, is my nervous system, is my body, is my energy, are my thoughts stressed out around money? Do I feel scarce or do I feel abundant? That's kinda step one, and then step two is understanding your money story 'cause when you can reflect on your money story, you can see what your money personality style is today.

    9. JS

      Mm.

    10. LH

      And for many years... And we can talk about both of us thinking about our past. For many years, I didn't understand money growing up. We didn't have a lot growing up. We weren't completely poor, but I wasn't as, you know, well off as the other kids in my class, so I always felt a little bit beneath everyone else. And so my belief system was around that. I'm just a little bit under everyone else. Everyone else is doing a little bit better than us. Sure, we have a home, and I'm going to school, but [smacks lips] everyone's got rollerblades. I'm in sneakers. People have Nintendo. I don't have one. I'm reading a book. Whatever it is, it was like I was a little bit beneath, and that started to shape my story and my personality style. So I felt very insecure around money. And when I got it, I got really excited, but I didn't know what to do with it, so I was also, like, afraid. I was insecure, and I, I was just unsure of it. And it really started to shape my personality style. Now, when I was in my teen years, my dad started to make more money and started to teach me a little bit, but I was still, like, just, "I wanna be a teenager. I don't wanna think about this stuff. It seems confusing. I just wanna have fun." In my 20s, when I got done playing football, I, I went to go pursue football, got injured. I was on my sister's couch for a year and a half, and I had no money. And I just felt like, how am I gonna make this work? How am I gonna make money? I don't know what my skills are. I don't know what my talents are. This is in 2008 when the economy was crashing, so it kinda felt like it is right now with inflation going up so much right now and people worried about money in the future. I didn't understand. And I needed to find money mentors to start teaching me how to learn about how I can receive money and spend it in a more efficient way. And that was kind of the journey of me starting to figure this out, but if we don't have the tools or the money knowledge, then we're always gonna be stuck in our money story as our money personality style. And so it's getting to understand awareness. How does it feel when I receive money and I spend money?

    11. JS

      Yeah.

    12. LH

      What is the history of the story around money for me? Did my parents fight? Did I feel anxious around money? Uh, I used to steal a lot when I was a kid, so I had, like, some wounds around money. I had people steal from me as w- well. So I just had all these different wounds that I had to address and get clear on, and I had to learn how to start healing those money wounds. And again, I know this is the place to come to create more wholeness, to be healthier in your life, and to become more healed, and that's what I want for people, is to start to reflect on their money story.

    13. JS

      Yeah.

    14. LH

      Write down some of these things so you have awareness, first off, on why you think and feel the way you do around money.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. LH

      Then you can start to see how your personality style towards money now is either helping you create more abundance or keeping you in scarcity and lack. And from there, we can start to have some breakthroughs.

  3. 6:21 – 9:44

    How to Get Out of Debt

    1. JS

      Yeah, let's talk about all three because as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking that for most of us, when we get aware, we actually realize we don't even want to look at our finances.

    2. LH

      No.

    3. JS

      Right? That's how we all feel because we're so scared, and there's been such a fear built around money that it's like, "I don't even wanna know because I'm so scared." Now, when I get my paycheck, I'm thinking, "Oh, God, I hope this covers my rent, my groceries, my bills," whatever else I've gotta cover, and then that becomes your stress point. And then you're thinking, "Oh, gosh, I've- I haven't got enough to spend on this thing that I really wanted to do."

    4. LH

      Mm.

    5. JS

      Or, "I wanted to do something for my kids," or whatever it may be. So now there's stress. And so I think for most people, when you actually get awareness, you start realizing it's stress.

    6. LH

      And it's never enough.

    7. JS

      And it's never enough.

    8. LH

      I'm never making enough, and also I've got 100,000 in student loan debt. I have this other credit card 'cause I wanted to go on a trip, or I had a medical expense that w- unexpected that came up. Like, so many people are struggling to be figuring out how to get out of debt. They have this weight that's carrying them back, but they still wanna feel like they're free to live a life of their dreams.

    9. JS

      Yeah.

    10. LH

      They wanna be able to go on a trip with a friend a few times a year. They wanna go to those expensive concerts. They wanna have fun still, but they're unfortunately in a lot of debt. So there's something that's pulling them back as they're trying to go forward, and they feel like there's no way to break free. They think about the rising cost of eggs, the inflation, uh, how everything is just constant. You can't afford a home anymore. All these things seem impossible to break through, but people want to feel free, but they don't feel emotionally free because of all the baggage they have in their life, and that's what I want people to start to feel, is how can you feel emotionally free so that your money can come to you effortlessly, and when it leaves you, it's not a bad thing.

    11. JS

      Yeah.

    12. LH

      And the more we relax, the more we can receive. And so if I'm tight and I'm always anxious, or I'm not willing to look at my bank account 'cause I'm afraid of what's in there, how are we able to receive more and spend more freely? And I think for many years, I was able to... I learned how to make money, but I didn't learn how to spend money, and so I just hoarded it 'cause I was afraid to go back being broke on my sister's couch. I didn't want to go be broke again, so I just stashed it away into my bank account and just like, "Okay, I'm gonna just wait for it to grow so I feel safe." But that was almost like a prison in a sense emotionally because I didn't feel free to spend it. I was still sleeping on friends' couches. I had a million dollars in the bank, and I was sleeping on friends' couches. I was sitting in the middle seat, the cheapest seat I could, on buses or on planes, and I'd always be like, "Man, I'm so uncomfortable" the next day. Like, I'm, my back hurts. Like, I'm just, I'm not feeling free 'cause I was afraid. I was anxious to lose money, and that is not emotional freedom. That is not healing. And I remember thinking to myself, "Well, God, I've got... I'm starting to make money." It was, like, years into my business. I was like, "I'm financially free, but I'm still trapped."

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. LH

      "What is holding me back?" And I realized a lot of it was my money story and my money personality style that I needed to start working on.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. LH

      And I don't know if it's the thing that you ever, like, "I've arrived, and I'm perfect, and now I'm like this Zen master at money." It's a constant back to awareness.

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. LH

      It's a constant practice of awareness and breaking through those limitations.

  4. 9:44 – 14:28

    How to Attract Financial Abundance

    1. JS

      Yeah. I think what I'm thinking about when I'm hearing you is if me and you went back to a place in our life where we really didn't have money-

    2. LH

      Yes

    3. JS

      ... and you think about someone who's in that position who's listening to us right now, and in their head they're thinking, "But how do I become abundant-

    4. LH

      Mm. Mm

    5. JS

      ... when I don't have?" Well, like, my natural thing is like I'm just struggling to pay my next bill, and me and you have both been in those situations.

    6. LH

      Yes.

    7. JS

      I remember when I was growing up, I grew up in a house where we had just enough. Like, that was the language my parents used.

    8. LH

      Yes.

    9. JS

      "We have just enough." And my parents would often argue about money. I remember I wasn't allowed to buy cool shoes and stuff. I'd have, like, the, the knockoff cheapest brand from whatever, which was... I actually didn't have an issue with that. I didn't have an issue with, with any of it because we had food, and that was my normality.

    10. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JS

      But it's really interesting because the amount of times growing up, I started working when I was 14, and I think that gave me a really interesting sense of how hard it was-

    12. LH

      Mm

    13. JS

      ... to make money because I started working at 14. I used to get paid £2 per street that I delivered newspapers on.

    14. LH

      Wow.

    15. JS

      So imagine there's 100 houses. It's gonna take me, like, I don't know-

    16. LH

      Not per house.

    17. JS

      No, no, no.

    18. LH

      Per street.

    19. JS

      Per street.

    20. LH

      Oh my gosh.

    21. JS

      So I did five streets, and so I'd get £10-

    22. LH

      Wow

    23. JS

      ... at the end of the week if I did five streets, and each street would take me at least an hour.

    24. LH

      Wow.

    25. JS

      May- maybe, I don't know, something like that. And so I'd walk around, I'd pull this thing, and I'd deliver it, and I got an understanding of how hard it was to make money, but then that became a story for me, going to your point.

    26. LH

      Making money is hard.

    27. JS

      Making money is hard.

    28. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JS

      And that there's only a l- certain amount of money you're allowed to make-

    30. LH

      Mm

  5. 14:28 – 16:22

    Rewire Your Brain to Earn More Money

    1. JS

      So when you're in that place, taking your story as well, taking my story, how do we start to rewrite that story now that we're aware-

    2. LH

      Well, it's so powerful that you said that, and I remember this vividly because I met you on Halloween 2017, right?

    3. JS

      Yeah, eight years ago. Yeah.

    4. LH

      And we, I said, like, "Cancel the day. Let's just hang out all day."

    5. JS

      Yeah, you had a book coming out that day.

    6. LH

      I had a book that came out that day-

    7. JS

      Yeah

    8. LH

      ... on Halloween-

    9. JS

      Yeah

    10. LH

      ... which is called The Mask of Masculinity. Anyways, how do we rewire our brain around money to create more abundance?

    11. JS

      When you have nothing.

    12. LH

      When you have lack. How do we rewire our brain to create abundance when you have nothing and you don't know how to earn more money? The first thing I think you need to be aware of is that your beliefs dictate your behaviors. So if you believe that money is bad or people who make a lot of money are bad and take advantage of others, and therefore me having lack right now means I'm a good person, and I don't wanna become a bad person, then that belief is gonna dictate your behaviors, and you're going to stay in lack. You're gonna stay in scarcity, and you're gonna see opportunities that only give you just enough, as opposed to opportunities that could create incredible wealth for yourself financially, but also an emotional wealth that you've never had before. So that's one of the things you wanna understand, is first that your beliefs dictate your behaviors.

    13. JS

      That's a big one, by the way.

    14. LH

      Yeah.

    15. JS

      That's huge.

    16. LH

      Yeah.

    17. JS

      Like, that, I just wanna point that out for people. Like, that's so huge.

    18. LH

      It's true. Because your belief-

    19. JS

      Yeah, it's huge

    20. LH

      ... your belief got you to a place of, I am impacting hundreds of millions of people from these, these videos that I created with my talents, but I don't know how to make money with them, and I don't know if I actually should, because then I could be bad and wrong, or people could perceive me as I did something bad-

    21. JS

      Yeah

    22. LH

      ... to make this money.

    23. JS

      Correct.

    24. LH

      And I'm a spiritual person. I'm a monk. I've done all these things. I don't want to have that life.

    25. JS

      Yeah.

    26. LH

      But I wanna make an impact, and I don't wanna be poor.

    27. JS

      Yeah.

    28. LH

      So I think a lot of people are struggling with that mindset.

  6. 16:22 – 20:11

    The Mindset Habit to Unlock Abundance

    1. JS

      What are the other ones you hear? What are the other, uh, focusing on that beliefs period-

    2. LH

      Yes

    3. JS

      ... what are you hearing from people about their b- that's my belief-

    4. LH

      Yeah

    5. JS

      ... and that's very much my-

    6. LH

      Uh-huh

    7. JS

      ... history and story, as you said. What other stuff do you hear from people?

    8. LH

      The biggest shift that will create abundance in your life is a mindset habit in unlocking wealth for yourself. And one of the big lies or one of the big blocks that holds people back from financial opportunity is that I, I cannot be generous with my time, my wisdom, my knowledge, or my secrets to others, 'cause if I am, they will take it and run with it, and I will be left with nothing. So therefore, I'm gonna hoard my energy, I'm gonna hoard my time, my knowledge, and only keep it to me so that others don't have good ideas or have my help. And from all the different billionaires and millionaires and financial leaders in the world that I've interviewed, I know you've interviewed a lot of them, there is a question I would always ask individuals who've made incredible amounts of money and that keeps helping them create more wealth year after year, and they all say the same thing. Those who have had a sustainably good heart in the process, is that you have to have a generous mindset. So the mindset habit is the first thing that you have to think about when creating abundance with your money, but also feeling abundant internally, and it's coming with generosity. So if you feel like you're stuck right now, if you feel like you have nothing, this was what you were at eight years ago when I met you. This was where I was at 15 years ago when I was on my sister's couch. I had no money. I was in student loan debt. I was sleeping on her couch. I didn't think I had any skills. I didn't have a college degree yet. I was like, "How am I gonna make money if I don't know how to make money, and I don't have any talent or skill, and I'm in debt?" I didn't understand it. It felt impossible. And the thing that I shifted when I started meeting money mentors is I needed to learn the first habit, which is the mindset habit, which is a habit of generosity and gratitude.

    9. JS

      So what did that look like then? What was the practical step?

    10. LH

      What it looks like was, how do I meet money people, people who have money, people who have success, people who can teach me knowledge? I needed to come with a sense of energy, of curiosity, of possibilities, and of joy. I literally wrote a list down of all these different things that I thought were my talents. I go, "How can I make money? I don't have any skills. I played football, and now I'm injured. What can I do for people?" But I was like, well, I'm really curious. Maybe I can just ask people questions. And never did I think in a million years that I could have a 12-year-old podcast just asking questions and make millions of dollars a year. I never thought that was possible. I was in my early 20s, and I was like, "You know what? I've got a lot of energy. I've got a lot of passion, so let me bring passion and energy to other people, and excitement." And that energy was infectious, and there's a currency that's tied to that energy of passion, joy, excitement, curiosity. That currency may not look like money, but for those who are older, who have no more passion, they're burnt out, they're exhausted, it is the highest form of currency. They want that. They crave that energy. They've burnt themselves out for decades. They wanna feel young again. They wanna feel curious again. They wanna feel excited again. And when you come to someone with that energy, you are bringing a different mindset. So the mindset of curiosity, joy, passion, presence, like, just connecting with someone and asking them a question, is such a valuable currency. So we have to look into these untapped-

    11. JS

      Yeah

    12. LH

      ... skills, talents, currencies-

    13. JS

      Totally

    14. LH

      ... inside of us that are hidden to others, but inside of us, they can create magic.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. LH

      That's one of them. Another one is just being generous with your time, with your resources, with your ideas, and helping others succeed.

  7. 20:11 – 27:08

    Create an Opportunity to Showcase Your Value

    1. JS

      I love that because I didn't even know that then, but I was doing it unconsciously.

    2. LH

      Yes, you were.

    3. JS

      So I really wanted to interview incredible people, but I didn't have a platform at the time when I met you. And so I'd partnered up with Nasdaq.

    4. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JS

      And by the way, just to be really clear with everyone, I didn't get paid to do this.

    6. LH

      Yes.

    7. JS

      So Nasdaq had something where everyone was using Facebook Live, and I said, "Hey, could I have an hour in the Nasdaq building whenever I have an amazing guest that says yes so that I can interview them on Nasdaq Live?" And they would put the picture up on the middle of Times Square.

    8. LH

      On a billboard.

    9. JS

      So now I could reach out to people I looked up to.

    10. LH

      And that's the reason why I went on the show.

    11. JS

      Exactly. [laughs]

    12. LH

      'Cause I didn't know who you were until I saw, "Hey, I can get you on a billboard on Times Square." I go, "That's value to me right now."

    13. JS

      Value to... I'm being generous, and I'm trying to find a way because I don't-

    14. LH

      Exactly

    15. JS

      ... have anything to offer.

    16. LH

      Nothing to offer.

    17. JS

      But I admire you. And it was all people I admired. It was yourself. It was Ryan Holiday said yes. Me and Ryan had met maybe once before that, but Ryan came on that show. And there were a bunch of other authors.

    18. LH

      Uh-huh.

    19. JS

      Deepak Chopra came on that show with me. And it was all people that I'd admired, looked up to for a long time, and exactly that. That's h- first of all, we became great friends off of it.

    20. LH

      Yes.

    21. JS

      But the point is, it's exactly what you're saying, that even though I felt I had nothing to offer, I had to find a way to create something to offer someone-

    22. LH

      Yes

    23. JS

      ... of value. I didn't get paid for it, for that show. I didn't get paid to run it. I didn't make any money from it. But it created an opportunity for me to connect with friends, to connect with people that were doing incredible things.

    24. LH

      Yes.

    25. JS

      And of course, allowed me to showcase my talents so that then I could show it to other people. I remember I had Ryan Harwood on the show, who founded PureWow.

    26. LH

      Mm.

    27. JS

      And he just sold it to Gary Vee.

    28. LH

      Yep.

    29. JS

      That's how I met Gary. So Ryan came on my show, and he was just like, "Jay, I love you. You're a great interviewer. Like, you have such great energy." He w- he really liked my passion. And he said, "You gotta come meet Gary." And I was like, "No way. Like, I love Gary." And so he took me to meet Gary for the first time. We had a meeting in his office, and that's how I built my relationship with him. It was all thanks to Ryan. And so when you think about it now, like, when I'm-

    30. LH

      Yes

  8. 27:08 – 33:41

    3 Skills to Create Valuable Connection

    1. JS

      You've reminded me of two really amazing things that I love that I wanna throw out because they're not us, it's about other people.

    2. LH

      Tell me.

    3. JS

      Last night I was at a premiere of a new show coming out on Hulu called Delhi Boys. Uh, it's a full South Asian cast. I was really excited to be just at the premiere and just seeing my friends, like, you know, do this amazing thing. And it was fascinating because me and Lilly Singh were together. You know Lilly.

    4. LH

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    5. JS

      And so me and Lilly were together, and we're hanging out, and this guy said, "Hey, can I film you for two seconds?" He was working at the event, and I believe this is what he does on his own. I, I don't know his name, but I'll have to find it. And he took a quick swipe of Lilly, like one shot, and she was like, "Oh my God, Jay, you gotta do this." He took a quick swipe with me. He edited it on the spot, and he created this amazing reel of the event. Like, and he was just doing it with quick... And he was taking, like, two seconds of our time. And me and Lilly both turned around and go, "Is this what you do? Like, how can we work with you?"

    6. LH

      [laughs] Right, right, right.

    7. JS

      And like, you know, because it was, it was such a great skill-

    8. LH

      Wow

    9. JS

      ... and he, he was showcasing his talent. He didn't ask us-

    10. LH

      He didn't charge you.

    11. JS

      He didn't charge us. He didn't ask for us or anything. He showed us his talent, and all of a sudden both of us were like this. A few months ago, I went to a restaurant that I'd never been to with some friends. This wasn't, like, a fancy restaurant, just... You know, it was a, it was a great restaurant, but it wasn't, like, fancy or anything like that. The, uh, lady who was, um, uh, hosting, she had so much energy and so much passion. She was, like, taking our order, but then when we asked her for a recommendation, she knew every detail, and, like, she got three job offers at that table. Me and my friend and everyone were like, "What do you do? What do you wanna do?" Like-

    12. LH

      Let's hire you.

    13. JS

      Yeah, let's hire you. Because we just... There was such an energy. And so what you're saying is so true, 'cause I'm now looking back at my own life and thinking about moments where I've had that visceral reaction to someone, and she was like, "This is what I wanna do. This is my dream." And one of my mates was like, "All right. Well, let's connect." Like, I... You know, he, he thinks-

    14. LH

      Sure

    15. JS

      ... she could work with him. But it was again the same thing you're saying. It was just energy and passion.

    16. LH

      Energy. She didn't have any other... She didn't have a... It didn't matter about her college degree.

    17. JS

      We didn't even know her resume. We hadn't even looked at it.

    18. LH

      It doesn't matter what skill, other skills you have. If you have energy, passion, and a curiosity to care about someone, you can go so far in that potential relationship.

    19. JS

      Yeah.

    20. LH

      Speaking about, you know, hostess or, or waiters or waitresses, there were studies that psychologists did around tipping and waiters. And I don't know the exact statistic. I know it was over a certain amount, but I don't know the exact percentage. But there are three things that you can do as a waiter to make more money-

    21. JS

      Oh, interesting

    22. LH

      ... getting higher tips based on psychology and these studies. One is just introducing yourself and saying your name. "My name is Lewis Howes. What's your name? Thanks for being here today."

    23. JS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    24. LH

      Saying your name creates a deeper connection.

    25. JS

      I agree.

    26. LH

      Making a recommendation of something. You said she was making recommendations and all, you know. Making a recommendation, "Hey, I really recommend this if you're into this," or, "These two are the best two options I recommend," gets you a higher chance of getting a better tip.

    27. JS

      Wow.

    28. LH

      And complimenting the person on their food choice. "I'll have the burger or the vegan burger." "That's a great choice." Those three things-

    29. JS

      [laughs]

    30. LH

      ... will increase your ability to earn more tips, and it's not like you had some other skill. You just created connection with someone, and you were trying to bring that energy to them.

  9. 33:41 – 35:44

    Building a Foundation for Your Dream Career

    1. JS

      I remember the day after I realized I was four months away from being broke, I must have emailed 1,000 people saying, "I will do anything. Here are my skills."

    2. LH

      Consulting, right?

    3. JS

      "I will edit, I will edit videos"

    4. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    5. JS

      "I will consult. I'll run your social media." Those weren't things I wanted to do with my life, but I needed to create a foundation-

    6. LH

      Yes

    7. JS

      ... from which I could then invest that into what I wanted to do. And actually, that year, everything I made I invested into starting this podcast.

    8. LH

      Yes.

    9. JS

      So everything I made this year went into launching On Purpose because that's not what I wanted to do. I didn't want to edit other people's videos. I didn't want to launch social media profiles. I didn't want to coach and consult, but I had those skills.

    10. LH

      Yes.

    11. JS

      And I think this is one of the things sometimes is that we all have skills that are valuable somewhere, and they may not be the skills that you wanna do for the rest of your life.

    12. LH

      No, but the season of life you need to-

    13. JS

      But the season of life

    14. LH

      Yes

    15. JS

      And I think there's something to be said for that because we all wanna be paid for what we love doing. But even my life today, I have... There's a lot of things I have to do-

    16. LH

      Yes

    17. JS

      ... and there's a lot of things I love to do, and that's life.

    18. LH

      Yeah, like you said, the seasonal side of things, like when I was just getting started making money, this was in 2008, 2009, 2010, I was using LinkedIn as a platform and a tool to meet CEOs, executives, and business leaders. And I was helping them originally with their LinkedIn profile to... And it's just saying, "Hey, how can I help you optimize your profile? I see that it's missing some things here. I'll do it for free." And I did this to build relationships with them, and through that, they just all wanted to help me and give back to me, and then eventually someone said, "Hey, I'll pay you for this. This is really helpful." Then I was like, "Oh, I can make money on LinkedIn." It's not what I wanted to do, but I had a skill to do it right then. So I did that for a few years, and once I had that foundation, I used that money to launch The School of Greatness as well because I had a couple years of runway now. And I didn't want to do that forever, but I did it for the season. I got skills, I made money, and I created a sense of freedom for myself to do what I really wanted to do later.

  10. 35:44 – 41:01

    Can You Manifest Money?

    1. JS

      Yeah. What do you have to say to people who are saying, like, you can manifest money? Do you agree with that idea of-

    2. LH

      It's an interesting story. I was in New York last week, and I said to myself... And I have a lot of these different exercises and games in, in the book-

    3. JS

      Mm-hmm

    4. LH

      ... to just give people as social experiments. I, I think it's really powerful to give yourself experiment because I think when you experiment, you allow yourself to explore possibilities. And when you create an experiment for yourself, you allow for the idea of magic to enter your life. So I want you to just, as you're watching or listening, I want you to say, "I allow for magic and abundance to manifest in my life. I'm gonna create a, a possibility that this can happen in my life, a moment, a synchronicity. Someone might call me out of the blue. Someone might hand me money randomly. I'm gonna allow for this moment to happen and this magic to happen." So I said to myself, "I wanna follow my own practices," right? And I went to see our friend Mel Robbins in Boston, and then I was in New York for a few days. And I just said to myself, "Money comes to me abundantly and freely, and it- I see it everywhere." I just said this to myself every morning when I woke up and when I went out of the hotel. I said, "Money comes to me abundantly and freely, and I see it everywhere, and I'm a magnet for money. I'm a magnet for money." I just kept saying this energy, "I'm a magnet for money." I was just playful, this social experiment. And when I was at Mel's, a penny dropped on the floor. Someone was carrying a box, and a penny fell, and I said, "Oh, look, money comes to me. I see it everywhere. There's a penny."

    5. JS

      Yeah.

    6. LH

      And there's a point to this story, and I pick it up, and I say- "Mel, do you want this?" And she goes, "No, it's yours." And I go, "Thank you, I receive." Because when I relax, I receive, and I'm a magnet for money. Even if it was a penny, I could notice it, and I was like, all right, it came to me.

    7. JS

      Yeah.

    8. LH

      See, here's a win. Here's a little win. Let me do this again. The next day, I go to, uh, New York City, and I'm in the subway, and it's freezing right now in New York. It's like 15 degrees. And I'm just saying this to myself in the subway, and as I get off the subway, I go up the stairs, and it's fricking filthy in the New York City subway, right? And the stairs are dirty, and I see a penny heads up. And I thought to myself, "This is filthy. This is dirty. It's not valuable. It's not enough money. I don't need to pick this up." But I was like, no, I'm doing this experiment. Money comes to me abundantly and freely. I'm a magnet for money, and I'm gonna manifest money, right? And so I see it's heads up, I pick it up, put it in my pocket, and I just say, "Thank you, money, for coming to me." The next day, I put it in my bedside table. I don't think anything of it. The next day, I wake up, and I look at this penny, and I said, 'cause I'm doing this experiment every day, "I'm a magnet for money. Money comes to me abundantly and freely," and I look at it as a reminder, these two pennies, look, this is a reminder that money came to me. Maybe it's not thousands of dollars or millions of dollars. It's not something that's magically right here, but it's a reminder that something is possible. And I flipped over this one pe- no, I looked at the penny, 'cause it was heads up, and I noticed something. I go, "Oh, that's really interesting." It said 1945 on this penny. That's an 80-year-old penny. And I go, "Huh, that's unique. I haven't seen a penny that old in a long time." And I flip it over, and I notice something, and I get chills thinking about it. I notice it's a wheat penny. I don't know if you know what a wheat penny is.

    9. JS

      No, I don't.

    10. LH

      So a wheat penny looks different than a normal penny. It's got like two stalks of wheat on the outside of the penny. It's this old penny. And I look it up, and I Google "1945 wheat penny value" and one just sold, [laughs] I kid you not, I get chills thinking about it, one just sold, guess for how much.

    11. JS

      I have no idea.

    12. LH

      $4,000.

    13. JS

      No way. [laughs]

    14. LH

      Online. One sold for $4,000. Now, it's all based on the condition and-

    15. JS

      Yeah, yeah

    16. LH

      ... all these different things. Like, who knows? Maybe it's worth $20. Maybe it's worth $5,000. Maybe it's worth $100. But the idea is that there was more value inside of that penny than what met the eye originally.

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. LH

      And the experiment of let me be open to possibilities for money to come to me, and what I thought was two pennies might be $2,000. And all I had to do was be willing to look for it-

    19. JS

      Yeah

    20. LH

      ... be willing to pick it up and say, "I receive. Thank you." If I didn't look for it, if I didn't set that intention, if I didn't see the possibilities in front of me, I may not have received that penny that could have w- be worth thousands. And it's the same thing in life. We may not see the opportunity in front of us right now. We may not reach out to the people we already know and say, "Hey, this is what I'm looking to create in my life. I have these skills. I have these talents. Is there anything that you need right now that I can be of service for you with?"

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. LH

      And that's, for that first year, how you created multiple six figures in that first year when you had nothing, was reaching out to hundreds of people. That was you either setting the intention, seeing that there might be possibilities, and doing the work to manifest hundreds of thousands that first six months. So by doing that effort, setting the intention, by saying, "I'm open to possibilities. I'm open to receiving opportunities that come to me," but I have to be willing to look for them. I have to be willing to ask for them. I have to be willing to put myself out there and receive and say, "Yes, thank you."

    23. JS

      Yeah.

    24. LH

      "I will do this work." And that's what I think people need to be thinking about. Can you manifest millions? Yes, if you're willing to set a clear intention, if you're willing to reach out and say,

  11. 41:01 – 48:32

    What’s Your Relationship with Money?

    1. LH

      "Here's what I'm willing to offer and add value in. I wanna help you achieve these goals," you're creating more potential to manifest money.

    2. JS

      Yeah, I love that penny story because I'll tell you a bit about what, what I do, and I d- I do a similar thing, and it comes from my tradition, so-

    3. LH

      Do you have a, do you have a money mantra?

    4. JS

      N- no, I, we don't say something, but there's... I'll, I'll tell you about it.

    5. LH

      Yes.

    6. JS

      Yeah, so there's a... So in our tradition, there's a god or a goddess for each aspect of society.

    7. LH

      Money.

    8. JS

      And so there is God, as in there's, there's one God. But then there's loads of different gods for different departments of society. Kind of like you have a president or a prime minister, and then you have, like, the cabinet and that-

    9. LH

      Who's the money god?

    10. JS

      ... the governors. So it's a goddess called Lakshmi. That's like-

    11. LH

      Lakshmi.

    12. JS

      Yeah, and Lakshmi means wealth or fortune.

    13. LH

      It's like luxury almost. Yeah.

    14. JS

      [laughs] Yeah.

    15. LH

      It's like Lakshmi. Yeah, yeah.

    16. JS

      Maybe that's where it comes from, who knows?

    17. LH

      It does.

    18. JS

      But Lakshmi's the goddess of fortune or the-

    19. LH

      Uh-huh

    20. JS

      ... goddess of wealth. And so you would never, ever put your foot on a goddess. So whenever you're walking the streets and you see pennies around, you're never meant to just walk past them. You're actually meant to pick them up and put them to your head.

    21. LH

      Wow.

    22. JS

      So that's kind of, like, part of our culture. And so whenever I'm walking around the streets of New York or LA, wherever I am, or subways, I do the same thing.

    23. LH

      Interesting.

    24. JS

      I'll always pick it up. And it's really funny, 'cause someone who's with me will be like, "What are you doing?" Like, you know, like, "Why are you doing that?" I'm like, "Because I'm showing respect." I'm actually showing respect-

    25. LH

      Mm.

    26. JS

      ... to the goddess of fortune.

    27. LH

      That's so good, man.

    28. JS

      And so that's what it is, is, like, I'm showing respect to the goddess of fortune by picking it up, and usually you give that money to charity-

    29. LH

      Yes

    30. JS

      ... or whatever it may be. It's not, it's not you're trying to keep on it. You may-

  12. 48:32 – 53:10

    Generosity Attracts Abundance

    1. JS

      There was a beautiful thing that we'd always repeat in the monastery. It was like, God doesn't see what you give, God sees what you hold back.

    2. LH

      Ooh. [laughs]

    3. JS

      And so there's not this-

    4. LH

      Oh, man

    5. JS

      ... you know, because we can-

    6. LH

      Gosh

    7. JS

      ... sometimes become egotistical about how much we give.

    8. LH

      Mm.

    9. JS

      And it's like, well, you got one hand behind your back, and that's... You just made that point. It's that, it's that pinch. It's that-

    10. LH

      Mm

    11. JS

      ... are you giving where there's a challenge to give?

    12. LH

      Yeah.

    13. JS

      Because that's where we're healing. You, you can get really egotistical, like, hey, if you were worth a billion and you signed a million-dollar check. Like, I've, I know people that are making 3 million in interest a day. Like, so you writing a million-dollar check is not the same. This also applies when you have very little. So my parents, who didn't make a lot, when they were giving, um-

    14. LH

      It felt like a lot

    15. JS

      ... it felt like a lot. And so, like, what we're saying is that, that this thought of being a giver- ... has to be core to us.

    16. LH

      You know, my dad was a lot like that, too.

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. LH

      He had strangers knocking on the door that somehow convinced him to, to stay with us for, like, three months in the summer, uh, who were-

    19. JS

      [laughs]

    20. LH

      And he just opened his doors and said yes. Like, okay. And so he was just like, like your parents. Like, okay, you need a place to stay for a week, a month, two months? Cool. We'll figure it out. We'll feed you, we'll do this, as long as we feel like you're doing something good and we're trying to support you. And I think it's, you don't have to give money to feel rich.

    21. JS

      Yes, yes.

    22. LH

      You can be very generous with your time, with your resources in other ways, with your food. It's like you can give in other ways and create a richness of life, and that's the key, is to feel rich and abundant and free. And if you feel that, when you start making money, you're gonna continue to feel free. The biggest trap is when you feel scarce and you start making money and you still feel trapped. You still don't feel free. That is an even greater prison in my mind, that you're living in scarcity when you have money.

    23. JS

      I mean, there's so many people right now that have the pressure to save money, 'cause we've been talking about making money.

    24. LH

      Yes.

    25. JS

      But there's this pressure to save money, and how do you find that balance between spending comfortably-

    26. LH

      Mm-hmm

    27. JS

      ... if you have the ability, versus, like, saving for your future or your family?

    28. LH

      Gosh.

    29. JS

      Like, how do you think about that version?

    30. LH

      Well, I think when you can live be- beneath your means and feel abundant, you've won. So when you live beneath your means and you don't need extra stuff, you've won. I just watched, um, The Count of Monte Cristo the other night. It's an incredible movie of a guy who has nothing, who was born by, you know, back in the, I don't know, 1700s or something. It's a period piece. He was born of, like, a clerk, a guy who makes no money, and his friend was born of, like, some general who had a lot of money or something. And this poor kid, they grew up friends, didn't have anything, but he had the world. He had no money, no possessions, but he just approached life as, like, man, but here's a piece of string. Here's a rock that I can play with. Like, I can just imagine the beauty of the world, and it, he appreciated everything even though he had no money. And I think in some ways it's so hard to look at that when we see Instagram and TikTok, where everyone has things.

  13. 53:10 – 57:55

    Lessons from Quick and Easy Money

    1. JS

      Yeah. What about this idea of, "I wanna make money quick"?

    2. LH

      Hmm.

    3. JS

      Like, I just wanna make a million-

    4. LH

      Yeah, yeah

    5. JS

      ... dollars in a week. I wanna find that-

    6. LH

      Gosh

    7. JS

      ... hack that solves my money problems. Like, what's your take on that? Is that possible?

    8. LH

      I've got money wounds, and it's because I wanted to make easy money in my past, not make money easy. And I don't know anyone that doesn't wanna make easy money. Like, our ego wants it to come to us now, and we wanna find the quick hack or the f- the quick investment that's gonna 10X in two months. Sure, there's always outliers that figure out a way to do that, but every time I've tried to do that, I've lost my money.

    9. JS

      Hmm.

    10. LH

      And it's been painful. And I'm like, "Okay, I think I've learned that lesson, but here's this new, like, quick, easy money opportunity," and every time I do it again, I'm like, "What was I thinking?"

    11. JS

      Yeah.

    12. LH

      You see that others act like there's a way to do it so easy. If you just invest in crypto, if you just invest in this, if you just do this thing, you're gonna make quick and easy money. I don't know anyone who's made hundreds of millions, millions, or billions who's lived that way.

    13. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. LH

      They might have invested and gone all in on one business and created generational wealth, or maybe they went all in on investing in one main stock that ended up 10- or 20X'ing over time. But going the quick, make-easy-money way doesn't usually work, and it's painful lessons you have to live afterwards.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. LH

      So I don't know. Have you ever made quick, easy money?

    17. JS

      No, no, I, I haven't, for sure. And, and I probably made mistakes when I had a bad relationship with money.

    18. LH

      Yeah.

    19. JS

      I remember my, one of my mentors in, like, 2013 told me to invest in crypto.

    20. LH

      Oh.

    21. JS

      And at the time, I thought to myself-

    22. LH

      [laughs] It's a scam

    23. JS

      ... I've only got-

    24. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    25. JS

      Like, I only, like, at that time in my life, I probably had $1,000, right, saved, because I'd just come out.

    26. LH

      Yeah.

    27. JS

      I'd just started working. I didn't have the money. So I was thinking, "$1,000, what's it gonna do?" [laughs] Obviously, I was stupid.

    28. LH

      Sure.

    29. JS

      I didn't know. That was-

    30. LH

      That also wouldn't have been quick.

  14. 57:55 – 1:00:51

    Invest in Your Self Growth

    1. JS

      When you're looking for a quick fix and a quick win, the problem is the speed at which you win is the speed at which you lose.

    2. LH

      Yes.

    3. JS

      Right? So if you think, I'll put money into this now, I'll make something in a week, chances are, like you said, you lose it immediately.

    4. LH

      You lose it in a day.

    5. JS

      You lose it in a day.

    6. LH

      Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

    7. JS

      And the reason that happens is because you actually don't know why you're putting your money there. So it goes back to your first point of awareness. It goes back to something you call the mapping habit-

    8. LH

      Yes

    9. JS

      ... the plan, because what's going on is you're saying, "I want this to happen now. I want this to happen immediately. I want this to happen quickly." So I know zero about this crypto.

    10. LH

      Let me just throw it in there. Yeah, yeah.

    11. JS

      I know zero about this property.

    12. LH

      Yeah.

    13. JS

      I've had friends literally gamble away their life savings because they heard all their friends were making money through crypto.

    14. LH

      Or real estate or whatever, yeah.

    15. JS

      I always say, when people say to me, "I've got this much money. What should I invest in?" I'm like, "What do you know about? Invest in that. What do you actually know about?"

    16. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JS

      Like, what do you actually have experience, knowledge, wisdom in? Because guess what? Because of that, you'll make money on it-

    18. LH

      Yes

    19. JS

      ... because you actually understand it. Again, it goes back to the point of respect. If we don't respect our audience, it doesn't grow. If you don't respect your community, it doesn't grow. If you don't respect your clients, it doesn't grow. By us saying, "I wanna make money, but I know nothing about this industry," it means I'm disrespecting the industry. And sure, there may be one person who had some lucky story that they tell you about, but the truth is most of us are not gonna get there. So if you have a little bit of money and you're like, "Jay, I've only got $100 to invest," "Lewis, I've only got $1,000 to invest," and you ask me where to put it, put it in what you know. Put it in yourself [laughs] if that's all you know is yourself and your skills. And I think so many of us are looking for that ticket, but actually, that investment in yourself will pay so many dividends.

    20. LH

      This is, this is... I'm glad you said this because a week ago, someone literally asked me, "If I have $1,000 right now to invest, where should I invest it?" And everyone says, "Put it in crypto. Put it in real estate funds. Put it in all these things." Don't listen to any of that. When I had no money, there was two things that I needed to create more of a currency within me, and that was courage and confidence. I lacked the courage to develop certain skills. When I had courage to go all in on learning public speaking or learning how to write, I didn't know those skills. I actually lacked those skills, and I was afraid to be a failure at those things by trying them. But by having the courage to invest my time and energy in a public speaking class, in a writing coach, I didn't have the skills, but I developed the courage. That courage created the actions to create confidence. That confidence created a currency within me of belief. That belief dictated my behaviors to start charging more, to go out there and ask for more, to put myself out there in bigger ways. And so if you have $1,000 or $5,000 right now and you wanna figure out where to invest it, invest it in courage to learn new skills that will give you confidence. That will be an incredible currency that you'll have forever.

  15. 1:00:51 – 1:09:30

    Money Doesn't Solve All Problems

    1. JS

      I mean, Lewis, I'm so excited for people to read this book.

    2. LH

      [laughs]

    3. JS

      It's, it... Honestly, I, I, I love this conversation because we're both sitting here as people who, like you said, not, not finished our money journey either. We're, we're, you know, I've got so many years left to learn so much more. The reason why I empathize with it is I never, ever thought I'd be financially abundant, mentally or physically.

    4. LH

      Me either.

    5. JS

      And I know you feel the same way.

    6. LH

      Dude, I was-

    7. JS

      I never-

    8. LH

      I thought I would never figure out how to make money

    9. JS

      ... same. I really empathize with everyone who's listening going, "I'm stuck. I'm trying to figure this out." But I really do believe it starts with this because this is the work you'll have to do Whether you make money tomorrow or in 10 years, and no matter how much you make, you're still gonna have to do this work-

    10. LH

      Yes

    11. JS

      ... in this book because even if you find a way to make money and you become really, really financially successful, you will never feel free in that financial success without doing this work, and you'll still feel anxious, and you'll still feel stressed, and you'll still feel all of that, right?

    12. LH

      Man. I tell a story in the book about I used to live in an apartment building here in, you know, in LA. It was really sad. There's a lot of wealthy people in this building that I lived in, a lot of celebrities and billionaires. I was the poorest person there, which is another, another lesson-

    13. JS

      [laughs]

    14. LH

      ... which is to put yourself in rooms-

    15. JS

      Always be

    16. LH

      ... where you can mastermind with people and be around proximity of, of people who have more so you can learn from them. But I, uh, was on a trip, and I came back from a trip driving back into the, the valet of my building, and there was a tent in the valet, like, in the driveway, and I kinda jokingly said to the valet attendant as I pulled into the building, I said, "Someone didn't jump, did they?" Kind of like joking, and the guy looked at me with, like, a serious face like, "Yeah, it just happened like 30 minutes ago." And I was, I was like, "This can't be real." It was like, what? There's billionaires in here. There's millionaires in here. There's celebrities in here. I was like, "Why would anyone in this building take their own life?" And it was kind of like just this shock to me because I learned later who this person was. Someone did jump off the building right before I came back, and he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars, net worth, if you just Googled his name. And I was just thinking, why would someone worth so much money take their life? And I don't wanna assume what really happened, but it doesn't mean having all the money in the world is gonna solve all your problems, and you're gonna feel like you can love and accept yourself, that you have self-worth. So like you said, you may learn how to make a lot of money, but if you haven't learned how to heal your relationship with you, then all the money in the world can't save your life and can't make you feel rich, can't make you feel abundant, can't make you have beautiful relationships with friends, family, colleagues, and that's where the real wealth comes in life, when you have deep, meaningful relationships. And something I wanna acknowledge w- that you do really well is you follow this first habit, the mindset habit, so well, which is how can I be generous with my time, my energy, my love for friends, family, colleagues, your community? This community feels it. Everyone listening and watching right now feel your generosity, your giving heart, and your gratitude for them, whether it be individually or collectively. They feel it. And most people, they wanna make more money, but they don't have that generosity, that grateful spirit, and they want the quick fix. They wanna make easy money quick, not make money easy. And the billionaires that I know you know and the millionaires that, that we know we've interviewed, and I'll ask them this question, "What do you think the key to creating more financial abundance every year after year is for you?" Every billionaire or mega millionaire will say, "Giving more." I make more when I give more that year, whether it be giving more to charities, whether it be giving to people in my life, whether it be giving back to my community, giving back to my employees, my business. Finding ways to give more and almost give where it feels, ugh, a little uncomfortable. Like, ugh, that was, that was a big check I just wrote. Ooh, man, I care about this cause, this charity. Uh, I feel safe giving this amount, but, oh, what really would make it uncomfortable? Or I go to church every week, and I typically give this, but what would make me feel a little uncomfortable? Most of these people say the more they give, when it's the most uncomfortable, somehow they just keep earning more. And I'm not saying you should give all your money away and you're gonna earn more back, but having that mindset of generosity, and you do this very well, where you give to your community. Whenever there's some type of breakdown in the world, you- you're one of the first people to say, "How can we give? How can we rally the troops?" You give first. You rally the troops, say, "Let's give back." The fires happened. Stuff happened in India a couple years ago. Stuff's always happening, and you say, "We're gonna give." I don't know if that seems something conscious you think about, like, oh, by giving more every year, it helps me make more, but also I feel richer.

    17. JS

      Mm.

    18. LH

      And when you do that with everyone in your life, whether you're the hostess and you give curiosity, love, passion, fun, playfulness, you're giving something in that moment.

    19. JS

      Yeah.

    20. LH

      If you can write a check for something that is a cause and you give, it's because you can, and you do it generously. It's just gonna make you richer inside.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. LH

      And you're creating an energy of abundance to attract more.

    23. JS

      I think for me it was watching my parents. So for all the other things I said about just enough and everything, my parents always gave in charity.

    24. LH

      Mm.

    25. JS

      Our home was always a home where everyone was welcome.

    26. LH

      Mm, that's good.

    27. JS

      My mom would happily cook dinner for everyone even though, you know, we didn't have everything.

    28. LH

      Yeah.

    29. JS

      And so my parents had this generous heart at the same time.

    30. LH

      They probably felt rich in that-

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