Jay Shetty PodcastLOVE EXPERT Reveals How to STOP Wasting Time With the Wrong People (Do This Before Your Next Date!)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
80 min read · 15,719 words- 0:00 – 2:37
Intro
- SMSara Al Madani
Toxic people are consistent. You know, that's the beautiful thing about them. They never change.
- JSJay Shetty
What should be a deal breaker in dating?
- SMSara Al Madani
My BS eliminator is having that straightforward conversation from day one, and if the man runs away, he's not ready for a serious relationship.
- JSJay Shetty
What do you think is the difference between someone who wants a relationship and someone who needs a relationship?
- SMSara Al Madani
If I need you, that means I am operating from lack. Are you what you're trying to manifest? Because you cannot attract what you're not.
- JSJay Shetty
[upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is going to dive into the topic that I know is on your hearts and minds the most: love, dating, relationships, the part of our life that brings so much joy but equally can create so much pain. Today's guest is someone I've been excited to have on the show. I finally have her in the hot seat. Her name is Sara Al Madani, and she's an entrepreneur, author who transformed her own pain into powerful guidance for others. Sara's known for exposing the hidden patterns of toxic relationships. If you've ever felt confused, controlled, or disconnected from yourself, Sara will help you understand why and teach you to identify narcissistic behavior, break trauma bonds, and heal the parts of you that were taught to settle for less. If you don't follow Sara on social media already, I know you will after this episode. And if you're interested, you can grab her copy of Dear Narcissist. This is the book that I want you to go and grab. We'll put the link in the comments, and we'll be talking about it throughout the episode. Please welcome to On Purpose, Sara Al Madani. Sara, it is great to have you here.
- SMSara Al Madani
I manifested this on my birthday. So on my birthday, I was like, "I'm gonna be on Jay's show," and here I am [chuckles] .
- JSJay Shetty
When was your birthday?
- SMSara Al Madani
20th of Jan.
- JSJay Shetty
That's amazing. And that was this year you had this vision?
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah, yeah, and everyone was like, "Oh, you're crazy." I'm like, "No, because I'm a manifester," so I knew it was gonna happen, and here it is. It's happening.
- JSJay Shetty
I love that. Well, I've wanted to have you on for a long time.
- SMSara Al Madani
I'm honored. I'm honored.
- JSJay Shetty
So, so it just was waiting for you to manifest-
- SMSara Al Madani
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... because I've been wanting to have you on. I've been following you for years, and I've always stopped to listen to what you have to say because I think there have been so many moments where I've just found, "Oh, this is the right thing to send to someone, and this is the right thing that's gonna resonate with someone." And so I'm, I'm a big fan of yours, and I, I love the work you're doing. I love the way in which you do it.
- SMSara Al Madani
Vice versa.
- JSJay Shetty
You also have the coolest style.
- SMSara Al Madani
Vice versa [laughs] .
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] There's so many things I wanna talk about today. But the first thing I wanna talk about is right now we're experiencing, all of our listeners, and I'm sure you experience this, people feel lonely. They feel disconnected. They feel like they want love in their life. They wanna find the right person. They wanna find the right partner.
- 2:37 – 4:46
The One Question to Ask Before Dating
- JSJay Shetty
What should someone be asking themselves before they start dating?
- SMSara Al Madani
It's an understatement of we know how people say, "I want this kind of guy or that kind of girl. I wanna manifest this kind of love or that kind of love." The true question that a lot of people don't actually look deep into is, are you what you're trying to manifest? If you want a successful man, are you successful? If you want a kind, loving man, are you kind and loving? If you want hardworking person, are you the things you wanna get? Because you cannot attract what you're not. And I think this is something that people don't pay attention to. They just don't wanna put in the work. They just wanna get it easy. But that's not how life works because in the end you will attract who you are from the inside. So if you're broken, you will attract broken people. I used to think, "I don't hurt anybody. I'm such a nice person. I'm making money. I'm working hard. You know, I'm a single mom. Life is great. I don't have traumas. I've been through hell and back, but I'm okay now. But I want someone good." And every time I went out there and I opened my heart, I attracted something bad, not knowing that the reason I attracted bad things is because even though trauma sometimes is not loud, it's hiding, but it crawls around in situations and shows up as triggers or, like, in your decisions or choices you take. And this is where good people don't understand that even if you're good, you still need to do the work. Even if you're good, you still need to be whoever you wanna attract. So I think that's something people don't wanna look deep into.
- JSJay Shetty
I really appreciate that distinction. I'd never thought about it like that.
- SMSara Al Madani
Really?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, like what you just said, that people are good people, and they're wondering why bad things happen to them or why they end up with the wrong partner or the wrong person. And I couldn't agree with you more that I think that when you're doing that work, you naturally set better standards, and you naturally don't deal or accept less than you deserve because if you're already happy, successful, organized, joyful, ambitious, whatever those qualities are, you know what it takes to be that. And so now when you meet someone, that person can either match your energy or they're gonna show where their gap is, and it becomes really
- 4:46 – 6:26
Are You Looking for Love or Filling a Void?
- JSJay Shetty
relevant. What do you think is the difference between someone who wants a relationship and someone who needs a relationship?
- SMSara Al Madani
Look, want comes from abundance. It means that I have nothing missing. I want you for who you are. I'm content. I'm happy. I'm fulfilled. I don't need anything from you. There's no hidden agenda. But if I need you, that means I am operating from lack, so there is a hidden agenda. It means that, okay, maybe I wanna be with you because you make me happy. Maybe I wanna be with you because you financially fulfill me. Maybe I wanna be with you for whatever reason it is. Need is not a good reason to obtain something. I need to... I, I shouldn't need you. I should want you. I always try to teach people this, and it's hard because we've been taught growing up that we need love, and we need, and we need to be in a relationship. We need kids. We need all of these things, but we actually don't. We're here to experience life. Whether love or children is part of the experience, great. Whether it's not, you should be content with yourself. Only when you are content and you don't need anybody, this is when you actually bond with someone and you purely love them. But if you need them, it's like there is always a hidden agenda. And once that need is fulfilled, you feel like you're disconnected from them because you didn't really want to be with them from the get-go. You just needed something from them. So this is why I always say be whoever you wanna date, be whoever you need for yourself, and then go out there and get whatever you want.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's hard because we've been programmed all our life not to think like that. So imagine after 30-something years I'm trying to change the way I think. Neuroscience, they say neuropaths can be created in 21 days, so you can. It's not impossible. We just have to mo- remove the limiting belief. That, and that's the hardest part.
- 6:26 – 9:26
What Are Your Dating Non-Negotiables?
- JSJay Shetty
What's a dating non-negotiable you have today?That would shock your younger self. What has changed for you that you would've negotiated with before?
- SMSara Al Madani
When I was younger, and I think a lot of people agree, I thought mysterious men were so sexy. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
I thought the more mystery, the more beautiful it is, the more... But now, no, if I could look at my younger self and I go like, "That's unattractive." Clarity is attractive. Mystery, and not understanding where you stand with someone, or who they are or what they do, it's not attractive. It's actually such a turn-off because it shows you the person is not aligned, and the person is not a leader, and not transparent and honest. That's something, like, if I looked at myself, every time I used to see a guy who's mysterious, I'm like, "Oh my God, that's so hot," right?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
Now, now it's like, uh-uh, biggest red flag ever.
- JSJay Shetty
Is there a part of you that's still like-
- SMSara Al Madani
I killed every part of me-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
... that wanted that, so no.
- JSJay Shetty
But it's important to reflect back like that because I think we can all remember a past version of ourself and how we were either trained or conditioned to be attracted to a certain type of person, and how that changes over time as you grow and you mature, and that's proof of what you just said, that you date who you are or who you become.
- SMSara Al Madani
Totally.
- JSJay Shetty
Because you're saying, "Oh, as I've grown, my taste has changed."
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I think we've all experienced that in different areas of our life, that as we grew older, as we matured, as we became wiser, our taste changed in so many things, so why not in people? But it feels like we keep going back to the same people.
- SMSara Al Madani
For so many years, I, when, before doing the inner work and all that, my taste was changing, as in like looks-wise, height-wise, whatever they do in life-wise, but it was still the same man in different bodies. That's it. So it was the same toxic traits. I think it's because we attract what's familiar to us. Uh, they say, "Better the devil I know than the angel I don't know," right?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
'Cause I know how to deal with the devil. I know where it ends. I know this is not forever. I know the hurt and the pain that comes with it. This is why I kept on going to what's familiar. I remember when I finished doing the inner work and finished my healing, I was like, even looking at pictures of my exes, I'm like, "What was I thinking?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
But it's trauma bonding. So a lot of people might think, "Oh, no, I was in love." I really love reflecting on old relationships, and I would love people to also sit and reflect on their old relationships after doing the work. Do this game where you put their names, and you write why were you attracted to them, and you realize where were you trauma bonding. And only when you can pinpoint these things is where you grow, Jay.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Because a lot of us, we throw ourself into healing. It's like walking into a supermarket and saying, "I wanna bake a cake. Can you help me?" It's like, what cake do you wanna bake? I need to give you the right ingredients. So when people go to do the inner work, they just throw themselves into healing, not knowing what are they healing from, where did all this all start? What's the root of it all? So people don't go so deep. They just wanna heal the surface. My last relationship, the relationship before. But all of this starts way from childhood. Doesn't start from a relationship, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
I mean, it's an entangled thing to do the inner work, but, uh, it's not easy, but it's such a fulfilling, rewarding
- 9:26 – 12:26
Chemistry Is Not the Same as Compatibility
- SMSara Al Madani
thing to do.
- JSJay Shetty
What's the difference in your mind between compatibility and chemistry?
- SMSara Al Madani
Chemistry is tricky because I cannot depend on chemistry because it's hormonal, it's, uh, endorphins, it's you meet somebody, excitement. Last year, I learned that when you're nervous on a date or when you're feeling all these things, it's actually a red flag. It means your nervous system is not calm. It's trying to tell you something. But we, the movies, and they taught us that to interpret them as butterflies, and they're the right one, and that's how it should feel like. A friend of mine once told me a quote that actually made me sit at home for hours and think about my life so much. He told me, "Don't look for a firecracker, look for a fireplace." A firecracker is when you have, like, all these butterflies in your stomach, and that's not a good thing. You should look for a fireplace. The boring guy, the calm guy-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
... that's your guy, you know? And it took me time to realize that, but chemistry is tricky because it might be misleading. Compatibility is more sexy for me, and it's more long-lasting.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
I treat relationships as business. So a business partner that has so much money, or an investor, and they have so many companies. Chemistry, very attractive. But if there's no compatibility in the way we think, so our ethics and morals, I'm investing my money, and I'm throwing everything out th- down the drain because it's not gonna go anywhere.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's not a good investment. I look at compatibility, and if there's compatibility, chemistry can come later. I don't need to have chemistry from the get-go.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
I don't know if you noticed. Have you ever watched movies where you were, like, watching the main character, and you're like, "They don't look that good"? And then halfway through the movie, you're like, "Oh my God, they're so hot."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
It's because you fell in love with the character in the movie, right? But it just shows you chemistry can be delayed. It's not a, a prerequisite.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I love the fireplace and firecracker analogy because I feel like it's all about the feeling you get from being in that person's presence, and when you said that, I was thinking, a fireplace can actually be beautiful. It's not boring at all, and it makes you feel warm, and it has this sense that you wanna be around it. Like, if you see a nice fireplace, you usually wanna go sit next to it. You have beautiful conversations while it's there. Like, you're really present around a fireplace.
- SMSara Al Madani
True.
- JSJay Shetty
Whereas if you think about a firecracker, you, you crack it for one moment, you experience it, and then it's over, and it's done. Love is almost like I want to see that person first thing in the morning, and I wanna be around them at the end of the day. I want to see them when I have the best news to share, and I love that they're there for me when the worst thing's happening, and-
- SMSara Al Madani
Totally
- JSJay Shetty
... I can't wait to come home to them, and at the same time, I'm really excited when I see them every day. Like, it's so much more about peace and comfort and warmth, which the fireplace-
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... versus this quick big bang. No, no one ever says that about love, like when you really talk about someone you love. Like, even if it's a family member or a friend, you don't really talk about it in that way, but we do with love.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
You keep talking about the inner work, and you mentioned it a few times already.What is
- 12:26 – 16:04
What Does Inner Work Actually Look Like?
- JSJay Shetty
inner work? Because people throw themselves into it, as you said, on a relationship, whatever, but I think also people throw that word around. We just say, "Oh, do the inner work", but what is inner work?
- SMSara Al Madani
The word inner work and healing is trending like kale and avocado and matcha, you know what I mean? Everybody has a tattoo of it or it's in their bio on Instagram, but as cute it, it is seeing that growing, and there's like this woke culture, and everyone's talking about it, it's so important to live, not to exist. And if you're not doing the inner work, you're just existing. What is the inner work? The inner work is going deep down inside, removing all the masks that life and society and everything you went through had to put on your face, and you lost your identity throughout the way. Doing the inner work is removing mask by mask, mask by mask, until you finally reach who you truly are. So basically, who are you before people told you who to be, how to be, or what to be? Who are you really before this conditioning? And I always say we are born with blueprints. My name is Sara. That's my religion. This is my family. That's my country. This is what I eat. This is wrong, this is right. So I'm born already with a blueprint. Who am I beyond that blueprint? Who am I beyond that yes and no, and this is wrong? And this is the curiosity I want people to have, and the only way to find the light is to clean the corridor. And if the corridor is messy, and there's trauma, and there's all these things... Can you live a life without doing the inner work? You can, but I don't call it living. I call it existing because there's much more to life after healing. Like the grass is greener where healing is. The inner work, how do you do it? It doesn't matter how do you do it. Some people go to therapy. Some people do hypnotherapy. Some people do plant medicine. Some people do whatever it takes to find your way back home. And what is home? Home is you, this body, you know? I used to hear it all the time. I never understood it until I sat down and went deep spiritually. When people say, um, we are a fragment of God, like my soul is a piece of God, therefore this body is a temple, I always thought it was a metaphor, a metaphor. Beautiful. My God, how, how beautiful is this saying? Until I realized, oh, crap, God does live inside this temple, and this is the temple. So now I'm more careful about where I take this temple, who touches this temple, who gets in this temple, how I treat this temple because it's like, where are you dragging God to?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
I want people to go deep. I want them to be curious. I want them to declutter, to remove all the darkness so they can find the light, and the light is to go back home, back home to this. And this is not home until you remove everything that's distracting you, everything that's in the way of the light. But I cannot pinpoint one thing, Jay, and tell you, "This is the recipe to heal." No, whatever you're doing, as long as you're doing it, just go out there and try.
- JSJay Shetty
I appreciate that take on inner work. It's before the world told you who you are, what you are-
- SMSara Al Madani
Who are you?
- JSJay Shetty
Or wh- yeah, why you should be. And it's so true. I think about that all the time, of how many of our values are adopted and inherited versus chosen.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And so many relationships don't work out because you have an inherited value, and your partner has an inherited value, and you both don't even care about that value.
- SMSara Al Madani
No.
- JSJay Shetty
But you both believe in it because it came from each other's parents, and now here you are dealing with someone else's inherited problem. And it's almost like an inherited disease, where you end up having something, and now it's affecting your life today.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But you didn't get to choose. But with your values, you actually get to choose. You actually get to decipher whether they exist or not, and it almost feels easier and more comfortable not to do inner
- 16:04 – 19:48
The First Step Toward Healing
- JSJay Shetty
work. What was the first step of inner work that you did? What did you see when you started to do it?
- SMSara Al Madani
All my life I've been in five relationships, okay? Two of them were marriages that didn't work out, and I was just confused. The first marriage, the second marriage, the relationship after that, and after that, I was like, there's something weird because I feel like I'm with a different man, but I feel like I'm with the same man. And I didn't understand anything about narcissism or toxic relationships. Back then, I didn't have a lot of information online and podcasts and all that, and awareness. When you're curious, you go deep, like you enter the rabbit hole. And I was like, "Why? What's happening here?" Instead of me focusing on, oh my God, they're bad, they're this, pointing the finger and being a victim all the time, which a lot of us do because it's comfortable to be a victim. I didn't hurt anybody. They hurt me. Look at me, I'm the broken one. I realized being a victim does not serve me, does not make me grow, doesn't get me anywhere, and only when I started pointing the finger at myself, because it takes two to tango, where did I go wrong? What did I do? Where is my contribution to this? 'Cause I need to grow out of this. And only then I started looking at my life differently and, like, looking into healing. My f- my journey started with some therapy. I just did not like after every therapy session, the therapist would like, "See you next week, see you next week, see you next week." I'm like, "But I feel like I need you now. I feel like I'm depending on you. How am I learning?" And I'm a very stubborn personality, ever since I was a kid, so I was always curious and asking questions. So I was like, "Why, why see you next week, see you next week?" It was a bit expensive. I was young. I had my own business at the, at that time. Insurance did not cover that, so I was like, "Why do I keep going back?" And then I was like, okay, let me-- now that it sh- the therapist pinpointed what's wrong, let me move to something else. So I went to hypnotherapy, and after hypnotherapy, I went into spiritual healing, and I went into meditation, and I went into this and this and tried so many things. This is why I'm trying to tell you, if you tell me which one of them worked, I tell you all. So there is no right recipe or a location map I can drop you so you can come to the healing space. It's anything you try. Anything you do for yourself is valid and can help you in some way. And once your heart is open to that topic or that journey, everything comes to you. Like people call me up, "Hey, you wanna go to this retreat?" And then this post comes online. It's like Instagram's algorithm. You know, when you go on your For You page on Instagram?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- SMSara Al Madani
If I want to know Jay, all I have to do is go on your For You page, and I would know exactly what type of person you are because of the algorithm. Similar thing with the universe. Whatever you think, whatever you believe, it becomes your algorithm. You attract it, just like Instagram For You page. Once you set your goal and your mind to do the inner work, the way just shows up. Once you start walking, just the way shows up.
- JSJay Shetty
The number one thing you said in your answer that resonated really deeply was inner work started the moment you stopped pointing the finger outwards and took responsibility. I think that is the definition [laughs] of the first phase of inner work-
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... is being able to say, "This is where I'm responsible for my own pain. This is where I'm responsible for my own suffering. This is where I'm responsible for my own choices." And that's not saying you're taking the blame. I think the word blame is bad both ways. You don't want to blame anyone else, but you definitely don't want to start blaming yourself.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And so when you can take responsibility and accountability, now you can actually make progress because now you've transformed life from what you can't control to what you can control.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
You can control what you do and what you did and how you behave and what your beliefs are, and you can't control how someone treats you, no matter how good you are.
- SMSara Al Madani
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
But you can decide how long you tolerate it and how long you accept it for.
- 19:48 – 23:34
How to Raise Your Relationship Standards
- JSJay Shetty
How does someone today set their standards?
- SMSara Al Madani
You have to first understand what are you okay with, and I think the biggest blessing in my life was not knowing what I wanted, was knowing what I did not want because that gave me so much clarity because when you do the healing and you do the work, it's like you're meeting yourself for the first time. So I remember I took time away from people so I can get to know myself. I used to know the old me, how she reacts, how she thinks. After the healing, I'm like, "Okay, so what does she do now? How should she react now?" So it's like a blank page, and you get to meet who you are, and you get to mold her to the best version or him to the best version. I feel like boundaries and, and how you set the tone or what's okay with you, what's not, what do you want, what's not, it all depends on you. It depends on your expectation in life. What-- how do you value relationship? What do you look at? What do you want the most? Like, what is your love language? So it differs from person to another. For example, I don't think love is a feeling, okay? Because, like, children, they're-- when they're born, they're pure. They love everything. Animals, they love everything. They don't need you to provide to, to, to be successful. They don't need you to have a label or anything. It's like love is God's language, so we're born with it. It's natural. It's like even if I meet someone in the street, I don't need to know you to love you. I, I love you on, on a certain level, right? But for me, love in a relationship is a, is a decision. It's a decision to stick to the person whether things get hard or not. That's why they say, "In sickness and health, in rich and poor," that, all these things, because it's a decision. If I decide to be with you, whether things are the way I want or not, I have to stick to my decision. Similar to if I invest in a business. I cannot right now as a CEO and an investor say, "I don't feel like going to work today." You can't. You don't show up, it dies. You don't show up, people vote you out. You don't show up, things don't work out. Similar to how you feed energy into a business, marriage, relationship is a business. If you don't show up every day, it's not gonna work. It's like bread. You have to bake it fresh every morning, otherwise it's not gonna work. And people feel so comfortable in relationships. They feel like, "Okay, once I got the kids, once I got married, I don't need to put the work." And then they complain, "Oh, what's the secret to a long relationship? How come your marriage is working and mine is not?" It's because, George, Jenna, the same amount of energy you put into your business, into your work, put it into your relationship. It's as simple as that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's an investment.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's definitely a decision because emotions go up and down. Like, have you ever felt like, you know, you love your parents to death, right? But sometimes you feel like you just can't stand them.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
You just want, you just wanna, "Mom-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, yeah, for sure
- SMSara Al Madani
... get away from me, Mom."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, for sure.
- SMSara Al Madani
You know, "Not today, but I love her," which means if, if my relationship depends on my feelings, one day I'm up, one day I'm down. It fluctuates. Emotions are unsteady, but if I made a decis- a decision, whether I'm feeling it or not, I will show up because I made that decision. So love is a decision. It's beyond an emotion.
- JSJay Shetty
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- 23:34 – 28:37
Don’t Ignore These Dating Deal-Breakers!
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
What do you think is a healthy way of knowing what a deal breaker is? Or what is a deal breaker in dating? What should be a deal breaker in dating?
- SMSara Al Madani
A deal breaker-- Okay, uh, let me explain to you how I date first.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay? [laughs] So-
- JSJay Shetty
I wanna know
- SMSara Al Madani
... from the get-go, I sit down. I do not waste your time or mine out of respect for both, right? So I'll sit with the guy, and I'll be very honest. I say, "Listen, I'm 40 next year, okay? I don't have time. I've been married twice. I'm a single mom. I want to settle down. I don't know how long I'm fertile for, okay? So I want to start a family. What do you want?" And the thing is, a lot of men run away because they think I'm saying I want that with you. No, no, no, I don't want that with you. I just met you. I don't want that with you. I want that in the future, whether it's with you or with someone else. So my BS eliminator is having that straightforward conversation from day one, you know? And if the man runs away, then he's a boy. He's not ready for a serious relationship because even if he didn't want this, you can still sit and have an honest conversation about it, right? If he sits and talks about it, I'm like, "Okay, there's potential there. He's mature enough to hold a heavy conversation like this." I believe in honesty from the get-go. I believe in, in transparency. I don't believe in wasting your time or mine, three, four, five dates, dinners, and all that. Why? Why am I going through all of this? The only thing I can't take back is time.And because I have respect for the person in front of me, whether I'm interested in them or not, as a human being, I respect them, I am being honest to respect them in return as well. And if that works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But for me, deal-breakers in a relationship is, for example, on a date, a guy who doesn't want to have a serious conversation, an honest conversation, that's a deal-breaker. Someone who is, um... For me, someone who's, like, comfortable and not ambitious is a huge deal-breaker. Someone who is in their toxic masculine, as in, like, they want to show off, they want to put their voice louder, they want to treat people bad just to be more masculine, but on the toxic side. And, you know, toxic masculinity, you can smell it, you know, day one. And then narcissistic people. Like, this is, like, my, I think- [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
How do you know that, though? How do you in the begi-
- SMSara Al Madani
Easy, easy.
- JSJay Shetty
How? Go on.
- SMSara Al Madani
First of all, it's the eyes. Uh, all narcissists have one thing in their eyes. It's undeniable. I don't know if you've ever been with a narcissist or had a friend that's a narcissist. It's like their eyes give it away.
- JSJay Shetty
Interesting.
- SMSara Al Madani
I'm going to give you a theory that I talk about in my book. I'm not sure if it's real or not, but somehow, deep down inside [laughs] of me, I'm so convinced it's true.
- JSJay Shetty
Go on.
- SMSara Al Madani
Do you believe that we live in a simulator, right?
- JSJay Shetty
I... That's an interesting take.
- SMSara Al Madani
I mean, not, not a simulator. This is, this is an experience.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes, yes, yes.
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay? Let's put it this way, okay?
- JSJay Shetty
Yes. Yeah, okay.
- SMSara Al Madani
We can name it anything.
- JSJay Shetty
Okay.
- SMSara Al Madani
In the simulator, how does it get more interesting? How do I learn if everyone's good, if, if everyone's life is easy and all that? So I feel like, just like when I'm playing PlayStation. You know, have you ever played, like, for example, Grand Theft Auto or whatever, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.
- SMSara Al Madani
You've seen the NPCs around. They're real people, but they're not real people. They're just bodies to distract you, to make the game more interesting for you. Looking into a narcissist's eyes, okay, I-
- JSJay Shetty
It's like looking at NPCs [laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
I feel like they're not human. I feel like they're NPCs. I feel like, um, they're just bodies put on Earth to make the experience harder so you can learn more.
- JSJay Shetty
But they're not real.
- SMSara Al Madani
I don't know. Like, I, I bet you anything, anyone listening to this, they go like, "Oh my God, yes, that's so true." They're dead inside. There's no soul inside of them. There's no empathy. There's no soul. There's nothing. Even their brain scans are different. Like, it's like I feel like they're not real. I feel like they're just here as obstacles for us to grow and learn. I mean, that's, that's [laughs] that's my theory.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] No, I love the-
- 28:37 – 32:33
Knowing When It’s Time to Leave
- JSJay Shetty
You talk to people about inner work. How did you know in both your marriages it was time to leave?
- SMSara Al Madani
When it's abusive physically, mentally, um, emotionally, and-
- JSJay Shetty
Sorry to hear that.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah. When you go through that and you tolerate it for a while, one day you wake up and you're like, "What's going on?" Like, "What the hell is this? This is not okay. This is not what life is about." And then you look at, at the relationships around you, and you're like, "No, no, something is off." This became the norm, but then one day you'd wake up and say, "No, this still doesn't feel normal," although it happens every day. I had to put my ego aside, um, to understand the whole situation. Why do I say ego? Because in our culture, in our upbringing, you know how they say divorce is not the best thing, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's frowned upon. Even if I'm from the Middle East, even in the West, it's frowned upon. So people stick in marriages and relationships because they fear what the outside would say about them. "Oh, she failed in the relationship." And you know, sadly, women get the blame most of the time. My ego made me stay longer than I should because I was like, "What will the family say? What will the people say?" And then especially in the second marriage, when the same story started happening all over again, I was like, "Oh my God, what do I do now? I c- do I get divorced?" And people say she's done it twice. My ego was not my amigo at that time, and, and it made me stay longer than I should.
- JSJay Shetty
Did you stay longer in the first one or the second one?
- SMSara Al Madani
First one. Yeah. Second one was nine months, which is great because I already started doing some inner work. But the first one was almost, um, dating and marriage, 13 years.
- JSJay Shetty
It's heartbreaking because I think also there's the ego part, but then it also seems like there's the part of not feeling worthy of more.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
That's there too. There's the ego of what will people say, but you're basically saying, "I would rather accept this than people saying bad things about me."
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah, that was also my case. It's like a people pleaser, you know? I just want to be loved by everybody and chosen by everybody. I want everyone to see me at, in the best image ever. But that's zero authenticity. Yes, I did this because I wanted to make sure everyone is okay, and then I realized that everyone was okay except me.And this is when I was like, no. Some people, um, they don't mind having a war internally to maintain the peace on the outside.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
You know? And I don't want that. I used to go home, have a war internally every day, but on the outside, I maintained the peace. Now, it's the complete opposite. I'd rather burn everything around as long as I have inner peace. But all of that, why didn't you walk away? Why did you care about what people say? Your ego, blah, blah. All of this comes to one conclusion, lack of self-love.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's as simple as that. If I loved myself, if I respected myself, I would have never been in tho- those marriages. I would have never been in these relationships. But at the same time, I'm so grateful and thankful because they were my teachers as well. Whoever hurt me was my master, was my teacher, and I have a beautiful son that came out of it. If you ever tell me, if I give you a magic wand, and I'll take you back, and you can rewrite your story, I would rewrite it the same exact story all over again. I would not even change one inch of it because then I wouldn't be sitting right here in front of you.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
So I am the woman I am today because of what I went through. There's a quote that I love so much. It says, "You cannot break someone who sees beauty in everything, even pain."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
So a lot of people think they broke you, but for me, pain is a teacher. It either makes you bitter or better. So you can't break me if I find beauty even in the ugliest, darkest places. That's what I live by every day. In darkness is where everything starts. A baby in the womb, a, a seed underground. It all starts in darkness. So instead, like, of people thinking, "Oh my God, we got the best of her", no, you created the best of me.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm, mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Alchemy, you know? I'll take whatever you gave me, and I'll create something way more beautiful for the world.
- 32:33 – 35:42
The Cost of Staying in a Toxic Relationship
- JSJay Shetty
What's your message to men and women who are in toxic relationships right now?
- SMSara Al Madani
My message is that I've been there, and I know it's not easy to leave. I know it's not easy to understand, and I know there's a cloud on top of your head, and no matter what we tell you, you're not gonna listen. And sometimes the best gift you can give someone is to let them suffer so they can learn. But if I can give you any piece of advice, is that remaining in that toxic relationship or remaining in that place is slowly killing you day by day. You're losing yourself. Let's say you're gonna live until you're 70. We're talking about 70 winters, 70 summers, you know, 70 autumns. That- that's not a lot. Every single day wasted is a day wasted. You are deserving of a new story. You are deserving of rewriting your story. You are the captain of the ship. You are the director of the movie. Rewrite your story. The endings, like, people are always scared of ending things, you know? But endings are so beautiful because it's an opportunity to start something completely new, and I want them not to be scared of going out there and fighting for the life they deserve instead of sitting behind a window and watching their life pass by. I wish, I wish, I wish. What if I? Why? Why what if? Just go out there and do it. It will upset and piss a lot of people off when you live your life the way you want, but guess what? You're not here to please anybody. You're not here... You weren't born with a permission slip that needs a signature. You don't need this or that or him or her to approve anything. The only approval, the only signature you need is from yourself. So the thing is, a lot of people want to be free, but they don't understand that freedom is freeing the mind. And what they also don't understand, that the key to that cage is in their hand. They're always waiting for others to open it for them. No, go out there, rewrite your story. I have a sister and a brother, and my sister's not married. My brother just got married, and I was sitting with my mom, and I said, "Mom, I'm thinking of getting married again." She's like, "Don't you ever dare to even say that. Two weddings is more than enough. Your sister's not even married. You have cousins that are not even ma- Stop it. Leave the men alone."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Leave the men alone.
- SMSara Al Madani
In her mind, God bless her soul, she, you know, bas- based on culture and all that and everything, she's like, "You've done it twice. You make money. Go live your life with your kid now." But I don't want to live my life the way my mom expects me to live or my society expects me to live. If I have to get married 10 times and get divorced, so be it. And I always tell my parents, when I die, and somebody takes my story and wants to make it a movie-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
... it has to be a freaking good movie.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
That's why I'm gonna keep rewriting my story over and over again. So my advice is that, to anyone that's in a toxic relationship, I dare you to go out there. I dare you to experience. I dare you to have the balls and the guts to say, "I'm worthy of something more than the breadcrumbs or whatever I'm getting." You deserve not to be hit. You deserve to be respected. You deserve flowers in the morning. You deserve the bare minimum that you beg for. You deserve this on a daily base. My advice is just this for them. Just go out there. You know, have the courage to live life and
- 35:42 – 40:11
Finding the Courage to Walk Away
- SMSara Al Madani
not just to exist.
- JSJay Shetty
How did you find that strength when you're in that painful position? Because it's almost like when you're on the receiving end of any form of abuse, you feel like your weakest because not only is that person beating you up, sadly, but there's also you beating yourself up for accepting that. What did you do and what have you helped others do, find that courage, and give themselves that permission in that moment when it feels like it's impossible?
- SMSara Al Madani
The anger, when I was doing the healing, the anger towards myself was way bigger than the anger towards them because toxic people are consistent. You know, that's the beautiful thing about them. They're shitty [laughs] , and they're shitty all the time. They never change. They show you who they really are. You're the one that's agreeing to stay, so the anger towards self, because I'm in this situation, I'm agreeing to stay, and all that, that is what takes a toll on your body. You asked how did I manage to rise from all of that and everything. You know rock bottom?Rock bottom has a basement. Have you ever heard of it?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
People think [laughs] rock bottom is the end. There's a basement down there.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
Every pain, every heartbreak, every, every agony is an opportunity for you to meet God. That's where I met God, not on rock bottom, in the basement of rock bottom. These hardships are an opportunity for you to meet God, and when I met God, and, and fixed my relationship with God and got closer, and understood that relationship, then my self-love journey started. A lot of people, they remember God when they are in a bad situation. When they're in a good situation, they forget him, right? Or for example, if anything goes wrong, "God, why are you doing this to me?" No, Martha, you chose George, who was toxic. He beat you up day one. You stayed. God has nothing to do with it. We tend to hang our mistakes on God and say, call it fate. And this is what happens when you don't do the inner work. You will choose bad, you'll go through bad things, and you always end up labeling them as fate, or God, or fate, or that's my destiny. It's not your destiny. You wrote this destiny. You chose this. You're the author. You're, you're the participant. You're all of that. This is how I got out of it, is when I met God in rock bottom, and I felt that, that deep love, although I was in a bad situation, I felt so much love, and then I realized that I have to give that love to myself before trading it and giving it to others. And the reason why I was always broken is because I gave it to others before giving it to myself. I'm an empath, but this is where empathy becomes toxic. You know, you become a toxic empath. I love using this word with a lot of my, the people that I coach and all that. I say, "An empath without boundaries is like a house with no doors." Imagine just an opening without a door. Would you stay in this house?
- JSJay Shetty
No, definitely not.
- SMSara Al Madani
No. Would you buy this house?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Would you stay for long?
- JSJay Shetty
No.
- SMSara Al Madani
No, it's unsafe, right? So people who are, are, uh, full of empathy but have no boundaries, they're not safe. That's why nobody stays with them. That's why no matter how much they give, people leave, because they can't even put it in words. People just can't stay, you know? Only when you build that door, not a wall, 'cause a lot of people build walls, but walls, they stop bad things and good things. Build a door. Open it for good. Close it for bad. Build a door. Protect yourself. Protect what's in the house. If somebody enters that house, make them feel like they're safe. Show them your leadership skills and the decisions you take in life so they can trust your leading. All these things are, are just important.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. You were saying that you coach people today. What are the most common things people come to you with? Like, what's the thing you hear the most?
- SMSara Al Madani
Either, like, love interest or childhood trauma. The thing is, I'm, I'm an awakening coach, so what I do is I awaken your senses, your spirit, your healing abilities. I teach you, and then I ask you to never come back to me again.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
Because if you keep coming back-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- SMSara Al Madani
... I'm failing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
Like, this is not how it should work. I think what triggered that is my therapist. Remember how I told you at the beginning? She's like, "Come back next week. Come back next week." And I always tell my patients that.
- JSJay Shetty
Don't come back next week, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
Don't come back.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
If you come back to me, that means I'm not doing something right. It's just you awaken to show them their true powers because they should not depend on anybody. They are the healer. They are the teacher. They're the master. They're everything, but they just don't know that. You just need to show them their own powers. You know, we use the power of meditation, immersive experience, using sound, using vibration to show them their power, and it works most of the time. So yeah, that's, that's how we teach them.
- 40:11 – 43:41
Healing Through Your Relationship with God
- JSJay Shetty
You talked about meeting God in the basement-
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... of rock bottom, and that was the empowerment that you needed in order to get out of that space. What was that journey like for you? Like, talk to me about what it looked like to build a relationship with God that gave you that strength.
- SMSara Al Madani
The relationship with God was, number one, to stop blaming God for everything. I have a free will, you know? And if you have a free will, a free will doesn't come with a but. God can't say, "I give you free will, but I will do this, this." Free will, your choice, your decision, your life, everything. However, our choices sometimes are pre-chosen for us because I cannot choose my parents, right? So I came through the parents. The parents have the trauma. They pass the trauma. They pass this, the upbringing, the teachings, and all that. So I am part of a cycle. You know, it's like I enter the game. I'm already, like, part of the whole game. So fixing the relationship with God is understanding that I cannot blame God for everything bad that happens, but I should have gratitude for God for everything good that happens because without him accepting and seeing how hard I'm working, I wouldn't have gotten that blessing. So understanding that God is not angry, God is not, uh, waiting to punish anybody, God is full of love. We are all his children. There's no segregation between who we are. He sees us at one. Once you remove these doubts from the image people created about God, once you remove that and you look at the divine part of who God is and how unconditional his love is, it rubs on you. You have no choice but to start loving yourself because you are a fragment of him, and if you love him, he is inside of you. Your soul is a piece of him. You have no choice but to start respecting and practicing self-love. That was my biggest lesson ever, just fixing my relationship with God. It fixed my relationship with work, with family, with, with everything around me because if, if you have an idea of the creator, guess what? That idea imprints on everything in life. If God punishes, how can I trust him? How can I trust her? If God is angry, of course they're angry. Of course he's beating her up. God also punishes. So it's like understanding that I fear God, yes. I have respect for God. If I do wrong, karma will serve me as well. Understanding the game of the universe and how life works is also important, but at the same time, I am the author of my karma. I cannot say, "Oh, why is this happening to me?" I have to reflect o- on what I've done in the past that this is happening to me. I feel like out of everything in the universe that I've learned about how it works and all that, karma is the most fascinating one, you know? Because there is no one sitting there just watching and pressing the button for karma. It's an algorithm, you know? You do good, you get good. You do bad, you get bad. But-You know how everyone says karma's a B, right? I don't think karma's a B. I think karma's very intricate, she's very smart, she's very eloquent. She knows when to come. And karma does not fold the sheet of the table when it's empty. It folds it when it's, the table's full.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Sometimes it delays the response, it takes time, but I love, I love the system of karma that we have. And it just shows you how balanced and how fair God is. You know, because you, you're the author. You give, you get. Fixing that relationship, understanding how God works, and building that love, just you have no choice but to love yourself.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
That's it, as simple as that.
- JSJay Shetty
That's beautiful. I love
- 43:41 – 47:25
What to Do When Someone Suddenly Ghosts You
- JSJay Shetty
that.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I wanna put you into some scenarios. These are people that I know right now dealing with dating challenges. So I'm gonna ask you their scenarios. I have a friend who, she was seeing this guy. They really hit it off, sparks, chemistry, everything. They're seeing each other every day for three months, and then all of a sudden he goes cold. He doesn't wanna continue to see her, and she's trying to figure out what's going on, and then a month later he's just not interested anymore. No big breakup, no big message, no big reason, no cheating, no nothing. It's just, "I'm not ready for a real relationship right now." But three months of seeing each other every day, amazing relationship, great dinners, great meals, all the rest of it.
- SMSara Al Madani
Sounds like love bombing, okay? And, um, I'm not gonna say he's a narcissist, but narcissists do that for three months. They have to act, pretend to be a role. Sometimes three months, some of them are so good they can do it six months.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
I don't know if he's a narcissist or not, but it looks like he was love bombing her. Let's remove the narcissism out of the equation.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay? Let's just talk human language now. If he ghosts you, then act like you don't see him, because ghosts are things we don't see, okay? So pretend like he doesn't exist, because he just walked away after sparking your interest. I feel like it's very disrespectful when a man awakens something in a woman and suddenly decides to just disappear.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay? To me, it's so unattractive that I wouldn't even cry about it. Like, I don't cry over spilled milk. If he's gone, he's gone. You're worthy of much more, and thank God it's three months. Imagine if it happened in three years. At least you're protected, you're safe.
- JSJay Shetty
The language you used is so interesting, when you said when a man, or even in any situation, awakens something in someone else, and I think that's the painful bit.
- SMSara Al Madani
It is.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, even the language you used, I was like, yeah, that's what's so painful for this person. It's they felt this, like, generation of energy that was so exciting to them.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
They weren't even saying forever. They were just excited about the next few steps with this person.
- SMSara Al Madani
But I'm pretty sure if you had a conversation with her, not now, maybe in two, three months, and you ask her, "Did you see any red flags from the beginning?" There was red flags, but guess what? They were blurred with the chemistry. This is why chemistry is very tricky. [laughs] Be careful.
- JSJay Shetty
What are, what are the red flags we miss?
- SMSara Al Madani
For example, if you meet someone and, and from the get-go they're like, "Oh my God, I wanna marry you. You're the love of my life," it's like, bro, you don't even know my middle name. You don't even know what I like to eat.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
You, you don't even know how do I handle stress. What if I'm evil? You don't know anything about me. I feel like when people push too much, it is sexy, it is exciting, it makes you feel wanted, and it's so beautiful. If a man doesn't push and takes it easy, we feel like, what's wrong with him? Why isn't he pushing faster? But it's healthy to not push fast. It's healthy to take it step by step. It's healthy to take the time as a man and a woman to look into things and not rush. But this sound very rushing, and also my advice to that girl is that you see that rush the guy gave her at the beginning? She should have that rush with herself. She shouldn't need a guy to give her that. I think she was just in love with the version of her that he brought out, and that version should exist anyways without him.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
But in the end of the day, if he ghosts you, we can't see ghosts, so pretend like he doesn't even exist.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
That's it. That's it.
- JSJay Shetty
I love that. Yeah. I mean, I've always said, I'm like, "Don't fall in love too fast." It's so easy to fall in love really, really fast and speed things up, and you have no idea what this person's history is, and you're planning a future. You have no idea what this person did yesterday, and you're already excited for tomorrow, and you get lost in this vision and imagination that you built over having a tiny bit of information with them. And yeah, you just shouldn't fall in love too fast. It's scary and crazy to do
- 47:25 – 49:23
Stop Falling in Love with Potential
- JSJay Shetty
that.
- SMSara Al Madani
Another mistake we do is we romanticize potential.
- JSJay Shetty
Tell me about that.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's like you look at a guy and you tell your friend, "Hey, maybe, you know, if he works harder, he'll be somebody. Maybe if he does this, he'll do that. Maybe..." Maybe, maybe, maybe. You're romanticizing potential. Can you look at who's in front of you and be with the person in front of you? Because that's who you're getting. The potential is beautiful. You're looking at it. He might never reach it. It's false hope. You're feeding yourself false information. My only advice for this is look at the person and believe what they say and who they say they are. As simple as that.
- JSJay Shetty
We have this very interesting approach where we're constantly like, "Oh yeah, I love everything about them. Apart from this one thing, I wish they'd just work on this." And there's a part of us that's well-intentioned, because we're like, "Oh, we see this potential, we see this growth," but really what we're saying is, "I don't like them how they are."
- SMSara Al Madani
Let's drop the BS. Let's just say it as if no one's listening. I wish I can change them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
That's the first thing you're saying. I'm walking to this relationship, I wanna change them, I wanna make them the way I am, because that makes me happy. First of all, selfish, wrong intention, ill intention. The intention day one is to change somebody, and that's not what it should look like. It should be accepting someone, it should be loving them for who they are, accepting them for who they are. Actually, what makes relationships interesting is the differences we have between us. We should celebrate the differences, not dim each other's differences, and try to pull each other on each other's side, like come to my side. No. In relationship, both couple have to work together to be the best version of themselves. So obviously we're expecting growth. I expect you, you expect me in a relationship to grow.It's as simple as that. Even trees grow. Like, we have to grow. But to go in and say, "Oh my God, she wears a lot of short clothes, she clubs, I'ma change all of that." Why? Leave her for a man that loves her for who she is. If your intention is to change day one, wrong relationship to walk in. It's as simple as that.
- JSJay Shetty
I completely
- 49:23 – 50:49
You Can’t Force Someone to Change
- JSJay Shetty
agree. I also think that the people who end up changing people, it happens by example, not by what they say.
- SMSara Al Madani
Totally.
- JSJay Shetty
And I've transformed my life so much by watching my wife's habits, as opposed to her telling me to do those things. Because I'm so inspired by the fact that she's committed to certain habits, like I've seen her eat healthy, work out, whatever it may be, and I've learned so much just by watching her, where she's not telling me to do those things. And I always feel example is the best, most attractive thing. If someone just does the right thing without making them look like the right person-
- SMSara Al Madani
Totally
- JSJay Shetty
... it's the most attractive thing in the world because-
- SMSara Al Madani
It is
- JSJay Shetty
... you're like, "Well, you just do that because you see the value in it. You're not trying to get the value of what people think of you or how I perceive you. You're not trying to impress anyone. You do it because that's your commitment to it." And that's even more attractive because you don't see that that much anymore.
- SMSara Al Madani
This is the way children are as well. Children, they don't understand by what you say. No matter how much you sit and scream and tell them, they watch how you do, and they, they become.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
I think all of us humans, we're like that. If people tell us, we become stubborn, and we fight back, and we- we're a bit resistant. We want to remain authentic to our personality. But when you watch something, and you watch how much value it brings to someone's life, you slowly, you know, join them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Whenever anyone asks me like, "How do I change my partner?" My honest advice is just do the thing.
- SMSara Al Madani
[laughs] Just watch them.
- JSJay Shetty
If you do the thing, they'll do it over time because they'll see the value if it's that valuable.
- 50:49 – 54:03
Stop Waiting for Someone to Become Better
- JSJay Shetty
Do people change?
- SMSara Al Madani
I believe people change, but at the same time, I don't believe it's my responsibility to give enough chances until somebody changes. Like, it's not my job to wait on someone to change, because what if they don't? You know? So i- there is a chance there, right? And I'm not willing to take a risk. For example, let's say I'm thirty-nine now. I'm turning forty next year, and I'm with this guy, and he's not even sure if he wants to be in a relationship or have kids or... He's like, "Let's take it step by step." But I might not be fertile two years from now. I could have been with someone else who's ready and had a family, right? When you are with somebody, and they, there is, like, promises and all that, there is a risk. How much risk are you willing to take, and for how long? It's not wrong if I say, "I'm sorry I cannot be with you because I'm in a hurry for something else." It doesn't make me a bad person. It makes me a very honest person, and I'm saving you and myself time. So I, I just love genuine, open conversations.
- JSJay Shetty
I think people change a lot. I think people don't change for you, and they don't change for me. Like, they change when they want to change, and if someone's changing just for you, then they'll change back as quickly. I think the fear people have is, "Oh gosh, I'm gonna get that person to change, and then they're gonna change for the next person, and they're gonna be so good for the next person and not for me."
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay. If I was with a guy, and I've changed him, and I knew there was a chance he might be better for someone else, if I love someone, I want the best for them, and if the best for them-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
... is not with me-
- JSJay Shetty
You're very pragmatic. That's, Sara, that's like, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
I mean, I mean, look, okay, I- your team here that works for you, aren't you training them to be the best?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
- SMSara Al Madani
One day they might leave-
- JSJay Shetty
For sure
- SMSara Al Madani
... and, and do a better job than what you do, right?
- JSJay Shetty
For sure.
- SMSara Al Madani
But you don't mind that.
- JSJay Shetty
No, I don't mind that. Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
Because that's leadership.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
Why does leadership disappear in relationships?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, it's so true.
- SMSara Al Madani
I want to teach my partner. I want to make him the best, that even if he ends up with someone else, as long as he's happy, I'm okay.
- JSJay Shetty
I think that's the hardest thing in relationships because I th- And you're so right. The, the business analogy makes perfect sense. There's a... I can't remember. It's one of these old stories. But they asked the CEO, like, you know, "So you're gonna invest in people's training, you're gonna spend all this money on them. What if they leave?" And his response is, "Well, what if I don't train them and they stay?" [laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And he's like, "That'll be even worse."
- SMSara Al Madani
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, "If they never get better, and they still work at my company-
- SMSara Al Madani
Exactly
- JSJay Shetty
... it's the worst bet." And I think that's the idea, that if you're not investing in your relationship getting better, you end up staying with someone who is just, that you're stuck with-
- SMSara Al Madani
Exactly
- JSJay Shetty
... even if they're not the right person.
- SMSara Al Madani
But also this idea of forever is such a scam because nothing is forever. I will die. We will die. Everyone's gonna die. Nothing lasts forever. And, and people mistaken love with possession. Like they think, "If I love someone, I need to own them. They're mine. Oh, nobody can have them." That's wrong. Love should set you free. Think of it as raising a kid. If your mom was, let's say, so controlling because she wants to protect you, overprotective and all that, the kid gets sick. They want to run away every now and then. So the more you are treating emotions as possessions and people as possessions, the more they want to leave, because love is freedom. Love is guiding them to be better, even if they don't end up with you, and it's
- 54:03 – 59:52
Don’t Abandon Self-Love For a Relationship
- SMSara Al Madani
completely fine.
- JSJay Shetty
You were saying before that self-love is at the root of all of this. For someone who's listening right now, and they feel they have low confidence, low self-worth, what would you encourage them to do?
- SMSara Al Madani
Self-love doesn't just disappear out of the blue. You're not born not loving yourself. It's a conditioning that happens from childhood, whether you had siblings, your parents were not fair, or they didn't show you affection or love or whatever it is. There's so many reasons for self-love to disappear, and a lot of people mistaken self-love by other things. For example, I have a friend who, she's like, she travels first class. She buys the most expensive things. Her house is great. Cars are great. Life is expensive. And she always feels empty, and she always says the same thing. She's like, "I love myself so much. I don't know why I feel empty." Because people mistaken this 3D experience-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- SMSara Al Madani
... which is buying the things and the house, which great, uh, well, there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not what self-love is. That's not the end goal because when you die, nothing goes with you, right? Otherwise, why doesn't the, the G-Class go to, [laughs] go to heaven or wherever we're going, right?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
The point is that a lot of people-Think that just because I go to the gym, I color my hair, I do the surgeries, I look good, I love myself. No, this is all external fun things to do, but self-love is saying no. Self-love is boundaries. Self-love is putting yourself first. Self-love is wearing the mask first on the airplane before putting it on others. Self-love is not explaining yourself. It's being authentic regardless of how people perceive you. Self-love is being honest, no matter what the outcome of the truth is. There are so many things to self-love, and the only way to obtain it is to go back to the day where it was stripped away from you and you were told you were not enough. Was it when you were four when your dad was screaming at you? Was it when you were three when your mom was upset with you? Was it your uncle? Was it your... It all starts from childhood. In science, they say, uh, your personality is created from the age of zero till eight, so that's where your personality is created. So whatever happens at that time, trauma-wise, all that and everything, it affects you throughout the long run. For example, me, I dropped university, okay? 'Cause I had a business at the age of 15. So my father was like, "Oh no, you have to go to university. You can't do this." And I was studying film, and I wasn't even star- studying physics, you know? [laughs] I was studying film and, uh, directing and acting. But at the same time, I had a business, I had staff I had to take care of, so I had to make a decision, either this life or that life, and I dropped university, which upset my dad so much. One day, my dad was sitting down, and when he found out that I dropped university, out of love, k- yeah, imagine, he's not even saying it out of spite, because my dad's my best friend. He said, "Baba, without this paper, you're not gonna go anywhere in life. No one's gonna accept you without this degree. No one's gonna take you. It's not gonna work." However, I was sitting down, and I remember my reaction was like, "Oh, no, let me show you what I'm gonna do, yada, yada, yada, yada." But when I went home and I slept, m- the child in me, the subconscious mind, started taking these words my dad said, and they were fermenting in my head, you know? "You're not worthy. You're not worthy." My dad, my best friend, said that to me. And ever since, I started making choices based on I'm not good enough. I'm not gonna be good enough. No one's gonna notice me. No one's gonna do this. And I s- stayed for so many years rebelling to prove that I can do it. Although I've done it, I did it, I became successful. Yet years later, I was still proving and proving. Instead of enjoying my success, instead of enjoying life, I was still proving. So this is what trauma does to you. It crawls and creeps in your decisions, in the way you act, in everything like that, even your triggers, you know? If we are conscious enough to put our ego, ego aside and look at our triggers, we realize that our triggers are our untamed shadows.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
That's what they are, and this is why, you know, when you do the inner work and you do shadow work, you tame your shadow. You don't kill it or just get rid of it. You can't get rid of your dark side. You're a yin-yang. You exist, both of you, inside one. So when you tame your shadows, you don't get triggered anymore. So even the triggers, the untamed shadows, come up, and these, these are all trauma responses. These are all... I don't care how kind, how loving, how good you are, we're all broken, and we all need fixing, and we all need some work, so we can find ourselves again. And I urge everyone to look deep, no matter how good you are.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
I can even find, for example, if you give me figures from history that have changed the world, let's say figures that have, like they're selfless, that, that, that have given their life to the universe and to s- serving humanity. I can even find trauma in that.
- JSJay Shetty
Of course.
- SMSara Al Madani
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, of course, yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
So yes, you're doing great things, but that's not the point of life. You know, the point of life is not just to give up everything.
- JSJay Shetty
Do you believe that you can ever miss something that was meant for you?
- SMSara Al Madani
Yes and no, because if I miss it, it's still meant for me. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
So, so look, this is how I believe manifestation is, because I'm, I'm a huge manifester. I believe that manifestation is, is about surrendering, okay? What does it mean? It means if I believe that I want something, and I believe and I demand it from the universe, okay, I want it, I, I'm demanding it, I still have to prove to the universe I'm worthy, so I still have to put the work. So putting the work is still part of manifestation. Surrendering the results is also part of manifestation. So I do the work, and then I surrender all my results to the universe, and whatever comes my way, it's for the best. Whether I get what I want, amazing. If I don't get what I want, it's divine intervention, it's protection, it's redirection. It's not a rejection. So this is how I look at life.
- JSJay Shetty
It's almost saying that if it missed you, then that was meant for you, too.
- 59:52 – 59:55
Is There Truth to These Popular Love Clichés?
- JSJay Shetty
I want to ask you your quick reactions to these classic
- 59:55 – 1:01:21
Manifestation Starts with Surrender
- JSJay Shetty
love clichés. I'm gonna read them out, and then you give me your reaction to them.
- SMSara Al Madani
Okay.
- JSJay Shetty
So opposites attract.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah, no, it's not, it's not a factual thing.
- JSJay Shetty
What's your take on it?
- SMSara Al Madani
I mean, opposite is great in a relationship. Similar is boring as well, but I've seen people who are similar who have great lives together. So I think it's all compatibility in the end.
- JSJay Shetty
Love is blind.
- SMSara Al Madani
Love is definitely blind. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] In a bad way or a good way?
- SMSara Al Madani
Love is blind because our hormones drive the car.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- SMSara Al Madani
So if we are conscious enough to understand how everything works in the body, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, our hormones don't have eyes.
- SMSara Al Madani
No.
- JSJay Shetty
That's the, that's the problem.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah, that's the problem.
- JSJay Shetty
What's your take on this: You'll know when you know?
- SMSara Al Madani
Yes, I believe in that. As I say, like, being with a narcissist, you know when you know.
- JSJay Shetty
How about love is all you need?
- SMSara Al Madani
I don't believe love is all I need. I need love. I am all I need.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
I like that. I like that. You complete me.
- SMSara Al Madani
No, I complete me. And, and if you complete me, that means I'm using you.
- JSJay Shetty
What's your take on love at first sight?
- SMSara Al Madani
I don't believe in love at first sight. I believe in like at first sight, you know? I believe in attraction at first sight. I believe in so many emotions, but not love. Love takes a bit of time.
- JSJay Shetty
What's your take on absence makes the heart grow fonder?
- SMSara Al Madani
I mean, it does, but if you are with the right person, you'll miss them even when they're next to you. So, but it does. It does. When you spend time away, you miss people.
- JSJay Shetty
One thing you said
- 1:01:21 – 1:04:10
Forgiveness Is Essential For Healing
- JSJay Shetty
when I asked you about your relationships, your reaction was, "I have a very neutral reaction to it now."
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I was thinking about how much forgiveness is a part of inner work and inner healing. Even when you talk about some of this stuff, it almost comes across as you have no emotion for it. And not in a negative way, I'm saying in a, you feel very neutral-
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... like I can sense that that's real for you. That's pretty remarkable because you said your first relationship was like 13 years. It's a lot of time, a lot of energy. Talk to me about what it took to forgive after going through a narcissistic, toxic relationship.
- SMSara Al Madani
I struggled with forgiveness a lot because I did not define it right. See, the brain is a computer, and the more I break down information for it to understand, the more it acts accordingly. When I was told, "You need to forgive to heal," I said, "How? For- forgive physical abuse? How can I accept something like that?" And then I understood, like, after doing a lot of spiritual work, that forgiveness doesn't mean whatever you've done was okay, or I forgive you for what you've done to me, and I'm fine with it. No, I'm not fine with it. I never will be fine with it. But I forgive myself for choosing to be with you. I forgive myself for allowing these things to happen, for staying for so long because you showed me who you are. You know, and I'm... Am I really mad at you, or am I really mad at myself? So forgiveness and closures is within me. If I forgive myself, I can easily forgive somebody. The definition of forgiveness, once I redefined it, is what changed the whole game. Also, forgiveness doesn't come with, you know, an open invitation back. That's the best part, 'cause a lot of people feel like, "If I forgive, I have to welcome them back." No, apology accepted, access denied. If you didn't apologize, it's okay, it's fine, access still denied. Forgiving doesn't mean I'm okay with what happened. It means I feel nothing anymore towards it. If I'm still angry or if I hate any of my exes or anyone bad in my life, I still have feelings for them, 'cause feelings doesn't just mean loving. If I hate, I still have feelings. I don't want feelings. Some people are not even worthy of any emotions towards them, so I'm indifferent. And the way I know I'm over something or a situation or I've healed from it is when I'm indifferent. If I go back and I'm still triggered or I feel something deep down inside, I'm like, "Uh-uh, I have feelings. I gotta get rid of them." Even if they're negative, even if they're hate, even if they're anger, which is valid at certain situations. No, I need to empty the whole system from any emotions because you're not even worthy of any feelings. What you've put me through, you're-- I'm indifferent with you. So when I look back on my life, even on the physical abuse, I'm indifferent. I feel nothing at all. I wish them nothing but the best, and, um, hopefully karma gets them. If it's good, it's good. If it's bad, it's bad.
- 1:04:10 – 1:06:25
How to Rewire and Train Your Mind
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, language is so powerful. What you were just saying about the, the mind being a computer, this idea that the way you define words helps you understand concepts, and sometimes we don't understand forgiveness because we think that's about accepting their bad behavior or giving them permission to treat that way. But as soon as you switch it to forgiveness is forgiving myself for tolerating that and putting myself through that, all of a sudden, that's what I want to do immediately.
- SMSara Al Madani
Ta-da-da, then you forgive.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, immediately.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, and its language is just so powerful.
- SMSara Al Madani
It is. You know, I always tell people, like, similar to a laptop, why when you right-click on a computer, it says cut, paste? It doesn't say cut file to... It's not long. The command is small, short words. The more the command to the computer are clear, the more you actually give commands and not wait for them only, the better your life gets. Like, I don't wait for my brain to give me ideas, 'cause it's, I know it's a, it's a processor. I'm a soul running this, this show as well. I'm the person observing my thoughts, observing everything. So I give my brain, uh, commands. For example, I flew in here three days. I'm jet lagged, right? So what I tell my brain is... I have a name for it as well. So I say, "Phoenix work mode activated." And I train my brain that when I say work mode, it means even if I'm tired, even if I'm sleepy, I gotta show up, I gotta go there, and the brain listens. I want people to know that you can biohack your brain, and that's one of the things that I teach the most in my courses, that I can teach you how to hack your brain, how to hack your hormones, how to stop, uh, cortisol from being released, pull it back, release endorphins. Anything is possible. This is a machine. Just like I can hack an email, a laptop, I can hack this as well. Everything is hackable. The only thing I want people to get rid of is their limiting beliefs, 'cause with the limiting beliefs, I cannot do anything with anybody. And a lot of people might ask you, "Jay, how are you the way you are? How am I the way I am? How are you guys doing what you do in life? How come out of billions and billions of people?" It's that we don't have that limiting belief of a nine-to-five or that life is about this only. We have a broad open belief that's accepting, open, and always changing, and I wish people had that because if you don't have the limiting beliefs, you'll be able to do anything.
- JSJay Shetty
For sure.
- 1:06:25 – 1:14:08
Sara on Final Five
- JSJay Shetty
Sara, we end every On Purpose episode with a Final Five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So Sara, these are your Final Five. Uh, question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
- SMSara Al Madani
You cannot break anyone that finds beauty in everything. Like, if you find beauty in everything, no one can touch you or break you, even in the worst situations. Once I took that advice, gave my brain that command, everything was easy. There was beauty in everything.
- JSJay Shetty
Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
- SMSara Al Madani
A doctor once told me, he's like, "You're a businesswoman. You do tech. You do blah, blah. You do this. You do this. You do this. Oh, and now you want to start singing and a..." And I was just sitting there, and I was like, "And?" He's like, "Yeah, but who are you? What are you? You're everything and anything." Like, he's like, "You're so unfocused." I just looked at him and I said, "I feel sorry for you because you think you're here to just be one thing."I, I'm here to be everything and anything I want. I'm here on an experience. So if I wanna sing, if I wanna dance, if I wanna act, if I want... Why not? I don't wanna, wanna cling to one identity. I am ever-changing. I'm everything and everyone. I don't wanna be just Sara the entrepreneur, Sara the public speaker. I wanna be everything. Why black or white if there's so many colors to the rainbow? I can be so many things.
- JSJay Shetty
For sure. Uh, question number three: what's your favorite tattoo?
- SMSara Al Madani
I have a witch tattoo, and, um, a lot of people see it, they're like, "Oh, God, what does she do at night?" Um-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SMSara Al Madani
... witch means woman in total control of herself.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, wow, that's good.
- SMSara Al Madani
Usually women, women's reputation, voice, decisions are always in the hand of other men, husband, brother, boyfriend, you know, dad. And just being a witch, being an alchemist, is this, a woman in total control of herself.
- JSJay Shetty
I like that. That's a good one. That's awesome. Question number four: what was the biggest limiting belief that you had to let go of to live the life you have today?
- SMSara Al Madani
That I can't change my mind. There might be bigger things out there as limiting beliefs that could change our life, but the ability to know that I can change my mind, and it's not embarrassing, it's not okay, it doesn't make me flaky, and it's okay to change your mind. One day you might like something, the next day you might not, and it's completely okay. I was taught to think that you're flaky as a person, or you're indirect. If, if you keep changing your mind, you can't be trusted. But it's such a limiting belief. You're allowed to change your mind. And this is why a lot of people stick to things that are not good for them. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, 'cause that applies to career.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It applies to people. It applies, it applies to everything. All right, fifth and final question: if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
- SMSara Al Madani
[laughs] I would not allow people to date or get married until they do the inner work. It'd be mandatory by the government. [laughs] Which I think... [laughs] No, I mean-
- JSJay Shetty
So you're gonna have, like, a 0%.
- SMSara Al Madani
Yeah, I-
- JSJay Shetty
Everyone's gonna be single.
- SMSara Al Madani
Funny enough, I sat down with my business partner, and we were like, because I'm launching a dating app, okay?
- JSJay Shetty
Yes, tell me about it. Yeah.
- SMSara Al Madani
It's called SoulSearch.ai. And we sat down, and I was like, "If I was the king, or if I was the president, and I had to make laws and rules for love, what would it be?" I've always believed dating should be traditional. Like, I have to meet you, I have to feel you out, and all that. But this is also a limiting belief because the world is changing, technology's rising, and if I'm not part of the change, I'm falling behind. So love is blind, but AI isn't.
- JSJay Shetty
So the AI's gonna help you pair? Is that what, or no? What's the goal? What's different about-
- SMSara Al Madani
So you don't get to see the people. You get to see them after 14 days-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, wow
- SMSara Al Madani
... if you unlock certain, like, levels of maturity and conversation, and you play games together, and there's a psychologist involved, a hypnotherapist involved on the board. A lot of big names. Even the AI, for example, let's say if me and you match, okay, and we're t- we're chatting, the AI even tells us what to talk about. "Ask about the finances, ask about children, ask about this." The AI might even tell you, "He's love bombing you. Watch out. It's too much for-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, wow
- SMSara Al Madani
... for a AI."
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- SMSara Al Madani
So we've been feeding this AI so much information for a year and a half because I am so sick of wasting my time dating. And this is why I was like, SoulSearchAI, uh, .ai is basically embracing the future and the change in AI, although I have my-
Episode duration: 1:14:08
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