Jay Shetty PodcastLUCY GUO: The Most Common Success Advice That's Secretly Holding You Back
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
60 min read · 11,549 words- 0:00 – 1:49
Intro
- LGLucy Guo
I think that being delusional is necessary to be a founder. You really have to believe, I'm gonna be part of the .01% that is actually going to build a unicorn.
- JSJay Shetty
What advice are people being told about success that you think is outdated?
- LGLucy Guo
I think that college is no longer needed. That being said, I believe that your network is your net worth, and there's no better place to go than college to expand your network.
- JSJay Shetty
So you're saying go to college, but don't go there for the degree.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
How do you think the best ideas are found?
- LGLucy Guo
Ideas are cheap and execution is everything.
- JSJay Shetty
[upbeat music] Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Today I'm sitting down with Lucy Guo, entrepreneur, investor, co-founder of Scale AI, and one of the youngest self-made female billionaires in the world. Today we dive into the new rules of success, why speed has been her greatest advantage, and how AI is reshaping opportunity. Please welcome to On Purpose, Lucy Guo. Lucy, I am so happy to be with you here because not only do we know each other a little bit offline, we've been to some pretty crazy places together.
- LGLucy Guo
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
So I saw you last year on Luminara-
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... on the yacht trip, which was amazing.
- LGLucy Guo
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And then I saw you at my house where we did a fundraiser event. Then I saw you at the Dior party. It's, it feels like our lives have just been meshing.
- LGLucy Guo
We've been worldwide, and now we're seeing each other in Cannes next week. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, exactly.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It's awesome. But-
- LGLucy Guo
Thank you for having me.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, no, I'm so excited for my audience to learn from you. I think that right now we're living at such an exciting time where so many young people are driven, they're ambitious, they want to do incredible things. You've already lived that. You've done it. Uh, you're going on to do more. I know you've shared some ideas with me. So I can't wait to get inside your brain today. This is-
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... gonna be fun.
- LGLucy Guo
Let's do it. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I wanted to ask you, the first question I have
- 1:49 – 4:48
Is College Still Worth It?
- JSJay Shetty
for you is, what advice are people being told about success today that you think is outdated?
- LGLucy Guo
I still think that college is extremely outdated. I think that we're taught to go study and then get a traditional job. Um, but especially in the world of AI, I think that college is no longer needed. That being said, I believe that your network is your net worth, and there's no better place to go than college to expand your network. Because college is really the first time and only time in your life where you're going to be thrown into a world where everyone wants to make friends. No one knows each other, right? So everyone's open to this, like, emotional connection. I always tell people, like I actually think one to two years of college is extremely useful because that is where you're gonna build your network and you're gonna build the deepest network. Because your- their most talented friends are always going to get these like multi-million dollar job offers straight out of college. But, um, if you're able to have that emotional connection, like everything is sales, from retaining your employees to selling them to c- get you them to join your company. And, uh, college is the best place where you can like really build that emotional connection because everyone is open to it. Afterwards, like you may go work at a company, you may join like, you know, different, uh, like interest groups, et cetera, but, um, it's just not at the same density as college is.
- JSJay Shetty
So you're saying go to college, but don't go there for the degree.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
Right?
- LGLucy Guo
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
Go there for the networking, the groups of people, the emotional connections, practicing things.
- LGLucy Guo
And I think college is a really great place, especially in classes, to like learn a lot and learn how to think, but you should l- apply those skills to practical skillsets. Or you should apply the skills that you learn into practical use cases. So I would learn how to think in these classes, and then I would start using AI tools, right? And really accelerate what you can do and be that like 10X executor earlier on in life.
- JSJay Shetty
Where did you go to college again?
- LGLucy Guo
I went to Carnegie Mellon.
- JSJay Shetty
Did you go to college with anyone that you're still friends with? What, what are your peers doing now? Like, what else have they done?
- LGLucy Guo
Straight out of college, I had actually hired, um, the smartest people that I met. So like, you know, my TA, my computer science little, like had this like, it's not a sorority little, but like within the CS program. Um, because they were just like top of their class, right? Um, so that was a perfect example of like, hey, this is emotional sales and this is emotional retention. Uh, when I had dropped out, I'd actually met a lot of people within the college network, not my specific university, but like within the United States through hackathons. So I'm still friends with them, and these are people that I've actually invested in too after like, you know, hiring them. They went on to go build their own companies.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- LGLucy Guo
Um, so I think that's just a perfect example of like how they were ready to like, you know, open up and be friends with me. And by maintaining those connections, I was able to hire them as my employees, retain them, and then support them when they went to go build their own companies.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow. That, that's so fascinating that you were able to not only maintain those relationships, but they become mutually beneficial for everyone.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's a really unique way to look at college, actually, because I think right now you have the anti-college agenda.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And then you have people saying you have to go to college because of the old reason. So
- 4:48 – 6:13
The Ambitious Mindset Trap
- JSJay Shetty
it's an interesting one. I also wanted to ask you, what's a habit that you think ambitious people think is gonna make them successful, but actually is slowing them down or holding them back?
- LGLucy Guo
So this is actually probably an interesting one. I think that ambitious people have this mindset, like, "I want to learn from the smartest people," because that makes sense, right? So they gather all the mentors that they have possible, and then they enter paralysis when it comes to decision-making. So they ask all the mentors around them, um, instead of listening to like their own gut. And if I had done that, Scale actually would've never started because I had a decision paralysis when I was deciding whether to leave Snapchat versus go build a company. I gathered all my mentors. I asked them like, "Do you think I should stay at Snap or go do my own thing?" And every single one of them, and I mean every single one of them, told me to stay at Snap, because Snap was in its hyper-growth stage, and like it was, you know, go, about to go public. Um, people thought I was absolutely insane given that I was on this extremely special team with only 10 people. And I think I would've entered decision paralysis if I were to have listened to my mentors. So I ended up lis- just listening to my gut and optimizing for learning instead, because I did feel like my learning had become stagnant at the company. But I think that extremely smart people constantly want to learn from others, so they find the smartest people, and they ask almost too many questions. It's better to make an imperfect decision but move forwards because you can change your path, than to enter decision paralysis.
- 6:13 – 6:58
Why Go Against the Grain
- JSJay Shetty
I feel like any good decision I've made in my life has often been opposed by- To some of the smartest people in my life. Because you feel it internally
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly, and I think investments are very similar, right? Because you have to go against the grain to make a good investment. Like, Airbnb, I think, is a great example, and Uber is a great example. Like, no one thought it would work, but the investors that thought it was work, they went against the grain. And I think that's when the best decisions are made
- JSJay Shetty
Did you have to give up, like, did you have equity? Did you give up stock shares? Like, were you giving up, like, a ton of money, too, to go and do your own thing?
- LGLucy Guo
So I was giving up a lot of money. I wouldn't call it life-changing money for me, per se, but I think it was life-changing money for other people, especially 'cause Snap's vesting schedule at that point was, like, 10, 20, 30, 40, um, which is a very unique vesting schedule. So, uh, that meant that I was leaving the majority of my equity on the table
- 6:58 – 7:50
Believe in Your Vision
- JSJay Shetty
Wow, so you would've had to really feel a sense of inner confidence that you had an idea
- LGLucy Guo
This goes back to you are, like, the average of the people you hang around with. And because I was in this Thiel Fellowship network and all my peers were, uh, founders that had either raised tens of millions of dollars or had built billion-dollar companies, um, I really did believe that I could be one of those people. Um, I think that being delusional is necessary to be a founder because if you're building a venture scalable business, you really have to believe. Like, "I'm going to make it. I'm going to be part of the .01% that is actually going to build a unicorn." Um, I do think that there are other businesses, like lifestyle businesses, that are much more easier to become successful, because you're not shooting for the stars, right? Like, if you're making, like, less than 100 million a year for venture, that's not great. But if you're doing that, like, 10 million a year as an individual, like, that can support
- 7:50 – 11:19
Change Your Life at 22
- LGLucy Guo
you for the rest of your life
- JSJay Shetty
If you were 22, you had no money, no followers, and you felt like you had no connections, what would you do in the next 30 days to change the trajectory of your life?
- LGLucy Guo
If I were 22, uh, I would actually go live on campus at different colleges, because I feel like I would be young enough to do so, where I could pass off as a college student. That's actually how I was able to gain kind of a network outside of just Carnegie Mellon, um, where I had lived on Menlo Avenue at USC, and, like, kind of just hung out- out at USC as, like, a student. I was, like, you know, in San Francisco and I was hanging out at Stanford as, like, a student, per se. And when you blend in the college community, like, you will just start getting invited to things, whether it's, like, fraternity parties or hackathons, et cetera. Um, I would also, like, definitely continue to go to hackathons, because, uh, hackathons are great. Who ... It attracts a certain type of student that wants to do something over the weekend that doesn't involve partying, right? Like, they are side questing to build and learn. And when you go to these hackathons, generally, like, all the surrounding colleges go as well. So, like, MHacks attracted, like, pretty much all the East Coast colleges. So did PennHack. So did HackMIT. So you're not only meeting people from that college, but all the smartest students from different universities
- JSJay Shetty
So wait, you were, you weren't pretending to go to other colleges. You were just hanging out at other colleges
- LGLucy Guo
Pretty much, yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And so then you got the benefit of building your network in those colleges, too
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
Did you do that because it was fun, or did you do that because you knew it would pay off in the long run? Like, what was your mindset as a 22? I- I guess when you were at college you were younger than that. What was your mindset as a college student?
- LGLucy Guo
Specifically when I had dropped out, um, and this app completely failed, but for the Thiel Fellowship, um, I was gonna build DoorDash, actually. Uh, I built DoorDash at a hackathon, and then, um, in between the hackathon and when I decided to go build a company, uh, DoorDash got built.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh.
- LGLucy Guo
So I was like, "Great, I need a twist on it," right? So the twist was, okay, let's have people cook s- food for other students and deliver it versus restaurants. This has many, many issues, starting from, like, food safety. It's completely illegal. Whatever.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
But I launched at Carnegie Mellon and it did well, and I was like, "Great, I need to, like, expand to other colleges." So that was the mindset in going to live in other colleges and, like, you know, really get in the community so I can convince other college students at these universities to cook food for, like, their fellow students. And college was a really great place to do it because, um, because it's so high density. Like, you can just make a batch of cookies, for example, and run around campus and deliver it to hundreds of students. Um, people were making, like, $100 an hour. It was great.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
That's crazy.
- LGLucy Guo
But again, very illegal. Don't do it.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
Don't build it. I mean, [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
How did you feel when you create your version of DoorDash at a hackathon and then you see the real idea happen?
- LGLucy Guo
Honestly, I think the ideas are cheap and execution is everything. So for me, it's like, okay, cool. Whatever, right? Like, Uber wasn't the first, but they executed extremely well. So, um, I didn't, like, feel any resentment. I was just like, "Okay, cool. Like, this is a great app I can use. Like, let me think of something else."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I think that's what's so fascinating about high achievers like you, where a lot of people think that the idea is the value. And when you see someone do it, you're like, "Oh, I could've done it. I could've done that."
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's like, well, no, not really, because actually what it showed you is you got, had a good idea. Someone went and did it already. But that means you could find another good idea
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly. There's literally billions of people on this earth. Like, uh, people have ideas all the time. And, like, people execute all the time. Like, you can easily hire a developer in India, et cetera, get it done cheap. Now you can use AI and, like, use Lovable, Replit, et cetera, and, like, develop your idea. But, um, execution is everything
- 11:19 – 12:15
Where Young People Waste Time
- JSJay Shetty
Where do you think young people waste most of their time when they're building their career?
- LGLucy Guo
I think young people are wasting most of their time working at these larger companies, um, because they have golden handcuffs. Because when you're smart, you're literally getting paid millions of dollars per year, right? Which is extremely hard to let go of. When you wanna leave, they add in stock, they add in cash, they add in bonuses. Um, I know some of the most talented people that I think could've built unicorn companies that ended up just staying at Snapchat for 10 years because they just kept on getting equity packages, which I understand from their perspective, 'cause it is like, you know, life-changing money over the course of 10 years. Like, you're making, like, what? Eight figures. I don't wanna say their soul, 'cause the work is still interesting, but they're trading off what is, like, r- extremely life-changing money, like generational wealth, and, like, working on something that they want to do, like that one project, passion, idea that they have, uh, in exchange for cash
- 12:15 – 13:13
Can Anyone Be an Entrepreneur?
- JSJay Shetty
But do you think everyone could be an entrepreneur?
- LGLucy Guo
Everyone can be a certain type of entrepreneur, it just depends on, like, how much of an entrepreneur do you wanna be? Like, are you trying to build a $5,000 a month business? Like, yeah, anyone can do that. My friend literally prompted a chat to create a business with, like, a $50 budget, and it actually d- created a business that makes, I think, a few thousand a month.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, yeah. The research, it found a domain name, it designed a really crappy logo. [laughs] I think that, like, anyone can be an entrepreneur, but, like, what kind of entre- like, what level are you trying to, like, shoot for in the sky?
- JSJay Shetty
I guess the people that you're saying, like, they could've quit their job, and I guess ... And golden handcuffs, of course, there's different levels of it.
- LGLucy Guo
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
So even where I grew up, I remember I was trying to leave my consulting job, which felt like golden handcuffs at the time. I was making, like, £45,000 a year.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And that felt like golden handcuffs at the time-
- LGLucy Guo
[laughs] Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because I was like, "That at least pays my bills and pays for my rent. I don't know what I'd do without it."
- 13:13 – 14:41
Build Before You Quit
- JSJay Shetty
When someone's in that position, how should they consider the next move? Like, do you just quit and go all in? Do you come up with an idea first? Like, how do you think about the phases and trajectory of building something when you have golden handcuffs?
- LGLucy Guo
What I had personally done was I was working on side projects. And after I received investor interest, that's when I said, "I'm going to quit and go build." Um, I think that when people hedge too much as an investor, I don't think they're serious.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Where they want the money inside their bank before they actually quit their job. So I would say w- on weekends or, like, you know, after work, work on side projects. Like, get some traction because that traction will turn into investor money, but you don't really want to tell investors, like, "I haven't really quit my job yet," because it will make them feel ... Or you can say that, but you should make it known that whether or not you get the money, you will quit your job. Or at least just say that. I don't know. Because, like, you don't want them to think that you're not serious.
- JSJay Shetty
I think people always get caught between that kinda, like, catch-22 of, like, do you quit first and then you find what you wanna do, or do you find what you wanna do and then build it?
- LGLucy Guo
It is a sacrifice to de-risk, but de-risking does make sense. So if you're able to work on your side projects over the weekend, after work, et cetera, like, yeah, you won't be spending as much time with your friends, but you're also de-risking your life essentially. And I do think that, like, o- once you have an MVP with traction, which you don't need to quit your full-time job to get, like, you will be able to fundraise.
- 14:41 – 15:30
Where Great Ideas Come From
- JSJay Shetty
How do you think the best ideas are found?
- LGLucy Guo
I think the best ideas are found when you're solving a problem for yourself because, uh, there's so many people in the world that if you're building for yourself, other people are going to have that problem. And then whether or how large of a company it can be is just a function of how many people also have your problem and how much are they willing to pay. But you'll know exactly what to build, and then you'll be able to use the product yourself and be able to figure out which features to build, what needs to, like, how to innovate, et cetera. So I think the best companies that I've invested in and the best companies that I have built have all been problems that I've solved for myself.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's where people should start.
- LGLucy Guo
Absolutely.
- JSJay Shetty
I think today everyone's now thinking, how do you build the next billion-dollar company?
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's almost, like, the most counterint-
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, and the next billion-dollar company might just be, like, a small problem that you're solving for yourself, but you decide to expand on the idea afterwards.
- 15:30 – 17:43
Stop Wasting Time on This
- JSJay Shetty
I've heard you say, Lucy, that your biggest advantage is your speed, and I wanted to ask you, what's a decision that people waste six months on in business that they should figure out in six minutes?
- LGLucy Guo
So I think the thing that people waste the most time on is actually just product development and, like, design, um, because when you go to a large company and you see how long it takes to design small features, it can be months to years, um, because they want the UX to be perfect. But, like, a common misconception is that the UX needs to be perfect for a product to be adopted. I actually highly disagree. People will go through bad UX. People will deal with bugs if they want the product badly enough. Like, for example, let's say there's, um, the new iPhone, right? And, like, the- when you're checking it out and it just keeps on bugging, and it's like, okay, cool, like, the payment didn't go through, the payment didn't go through, you're gonna keep, keep clicking that payment button like 100 times until it goes through. Like, you're dealing with the bad bugs because you want the product badly enough. So I believe the best thing to do is just release 90%. Like, you can design, I think, 90% good UX in one to two days, and then just have the engineers build it, ship it, and then see if it's adopted. If it's adopted, then iterate on it until it's a good product. There's very, very few products, I think, that need perfect UX for it to get adopted. Um, most products out there, like, if people want it, they will buy it. People feel like they need to build the full product in order to sell it, but my philosophy has always been, like, create landing pages. Like, if you're building a B2B SaaS product, like, make a landing page and start doing calls. See if you can get LOI signed. If it's, like, a low enough price point, see if people enter their credit cards to, like, save a spot on, like, the page. Um, if you're building, like, even a, like, D2C product, I say sell it and then see how much you actually need to produce. And if you're late on orders, just give the customer another free, like, T-shirt or something, or whatever you're building, to make them feel happy and, like, not be upset that the order was late. That way you're actually testing demand for the product before wasting so much money and so much time developing just for it to flop.
- JSJay Shetty
So many people I see when they're launching something, they're spending all the time on the logo and the font and the color and all these types of things. And actually you're saying, well, put it out there and see if people even sign up-
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, exactly
- JSJay Shetty
... and even care about it.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And if they do, then you've got all the time and money now to actually go and build the real
- 17:43 – 18:23
The Perfectionism Trap
- JSJay Shetty
thing. What, what's our addiction to perfectionism? Like, why do we do that?
- LGLucy Guo
I almost think it's an excuse. I think that people believe that something needs to be perfect in order for it to work, and when it's not perfect, they blame it on the fact that it's not perfect. And I see this with tech founders all the time too, where it's like, okay, cool, like, we just need to A/B test our way into it being perfect for the product to work. But sometimes the sum of all parts doesn't equal a whole, right? Like, you can A/B test to have higher sign-up rates, then, like, higher, like, engagement, et cetera. But at the end of the day, like, there's only so much that can fix. Like, you probably need an entirely new feature which is not really A/B testable. Yeah, I think that it, it really is just an excuse.
- 18:23 – 21:08
Good Risk vs. Bad Risk
- LGLucy Guo
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
What's the difference between a good risk and a bad risk?
- LGLucy Guo
I mean, I think it's all a function of like, um, what are the consequences, right? I generally believe that a lot of products could not have been created without taking risks. So for example, like I think Uber obviously didn't really listen to anyone, and, um, they became so big that now it just exists. I was actually talking to Stripe founders, and I don't remember what rule they broke. But, uh, even Stripe apparently broke some rules, and then they just became too big to fail, and like they just had to make it work. So yeah, it, it, it's a function of just consequences.
- JSJay Shetty
But how do you evaluate that when you don't know? 'Cause I guess we all start thinking, "Oh, God, if I do this, then the opportunity cost is this, or this is the risk level."
- LGLucy Guo
I generally evaluate just based on like two criteria, which is like, is this going to be life-changing for me, and, um, am I optimizing for learning? Because if I'm not optimizing for learning, I'm just not gonna do it. Because I think that the knowledge I gain doing the next thing, even if I like, you know, lost a few million at Snap, for example, like I was gonna learn enough being a founder that I can take those skillsets and like, you know, either go get a new job that pays me better and I'll be more successful in my role, or build another company. And then the life-changing money thing was also just kind of that, where I was like, okay, like this doesn't necessarily change my life, so it's not worth my time.
- JSJay Shetty
That's something that we can all use in, in pretty much any decision.
- LGLucy Guo
Always optimize for learning.
- JSJay Shetty
That's such a big one because it's almost like we want to optimize for success.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
But you're saying optimize for learning-
- LGLucy Guo
'Cause that will lead to success
- JSJay Shetty
... and that will lead to success. Exactly.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly. Yeah, like everyone always complains like, "Oh, it's such a big risk to like, you know, quit college," or, "It's such a big risk to like quit this job to build a company." But it's not like you are losing your knowledge and skillsets, right? If anything, you come out the other side and you have more skillsets. Like yeah, you might have given up, let's call it, like a $10 million a year job, but guess what? You'll probably get a $20 million a year job. And I also think that people underestimate like how much like people want talent, which obviously we saw it with Meta, right? Paying like nine figures for AI employees. I think that even if your company fails, if you hire talented people and you yourself are talented, there will be someone that will buy your company for more like than your investors invested in at a valuation. Because they know you wanna make your investors whole, and they know that you want money. And for the talent, they'll overpay.
- JSJay Shetty
I keep thinking about my life, and it was, it was much smaller than that, like I said, the amount I was making. But making a pivot, companies were so good at making you feel like, "No, but you built a network here. You should stay here."
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, there's such a culture of making you feel like you're gonna fail if you move on, and I think people believe that. People buy into that.
- 21:08 – 22:26
Your Network Is Your Net Worth
- JSJay Shetty
How do we break out of buying into the fact that we actually think if we lose $100,000 a year job, then we're gonna end up with a $70,000 a year job? We don't think we're gonna be able to triple it or quadruple it.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, I mean, I think that is just, again, your network is your net worth, and you are the average of the people that you hang around with. So I was really lucky to hang out with founders that have done it before, so I knew like how it actually went. Uh, I was lucky enough to hang out with investors who, you know, they would give exploding term sheets, but they would also tell me, "Oh, exploding term sheets aren't a thing. Like if the founder came back, we would just give them the term sheet again." [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Um, people's fear is overcoming their logic.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah. Because logically it's like why would I not be able to get this job back? Like if I was valuable to the company, they're going to want me again. And let's say for whatever reason the role is filled. I mean, companies find roles for people all the time when they think the person is a Swiss Army knife and like smart and will be able to help the company. They'll like make a role for that person, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Um, but also there's so many companies out there that will hire you based off of the fact that like you did great job at like company A. Like company B is going to want you, and company B will fight for you and like understand that now you have more knowledge and more skillsets. So they'll pay you more. Um, this is really people's fear overriding their logic.
- 22:26 – 26:10
Rethink Your Passion
- JSJay Shetty
Everyone says find your passion. What's your take?
- LGLucy Guo
I think you should do what you're best at to have the highest impact on your passion. So for example, like I really like nonprofits and supporting charities, but at one point in time I thought like I'm going to start my own nonprofit and charity and foundation. And you know, that might still happen, but I also realize like at this age, in this state of my life, I'm really good at making money. So my time is probably best spent making money and in donating to causes that I care about and being run by people that actually know how to run an organization or a foundation. I don't know how to run a charity. And like I had actually looked into this where I was like, "I'm gonna start a foundation. I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z." And then I realized how much work it is, right? [laughs] And like how it's like quite literally another full-time job. Like maybe when I'm older I'll like learn all those skillsets, and I'll decide like my time is best spent doing that as my passion. But I think optimize for fun. Fun doesn't necessarily need to be your passion, but like optimize for like how you can make an impact in whatever you're passionate about.
- JSJay Shetty
But that feels hard, right? Because people are like ... For example, when I was growing up, I was passionate about soccer.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
What do I do with that? 'Cause I can't be a soccer player 'cause I'm not good enough, so then what do I do?
- LGLucy Guo
But you can make enough money to buy a soccer team. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Right.
- LGLucy Guo
And then you can have a soccer game and have so much fun.
- JSJay Shetty
Right. So you're saying that it doesn't have to be your career, but you may go build a career doing something else, but then use the fruits of that labor to then be closer to your passion.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly, because like if you're able to experience your passion, that's what's gonna make you happy, right? Like it doesn't have to be your full-time job. Well, I guess now music is my career-ish or my side quest, but I just used everything that I had succeeded in and like, you know, the money I had created to go experience music and like live events, and that made me extremely happy. I use like what I've been able to create to help support causes that I care about, which has made me extremely happy. I don't think that needs to be your full-time career. And like for most people, it's not going to be their full-time career because like in certain fields, like even no matter how talented you are, some of it is just luck, right? Like I'll never really understand the music industry or the acting industry because I have so many talented friends in it, and it just, for whatever reason, they're not making it. And I really do think it's because there's other factors like network, luck, et cetera, in that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah. But I like what you're saying, that people often say pursue a passion or make it your work, but actually what you're saying is just go work- Do the thing and then connect to your passion. And that feels much more realistic for most people.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, I think for the majority of people, there are very few people who can do what they love and it makes money. But actually being free to the idea that you can do something, not- hopefully that you don't hate.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, hopefully that you don't hate.
- JSJay Shetty
That's not what we're saying. Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
Hopefully that you don't hate.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But you do something, and that something gets you to be able to be closer to all of these things that you love, which I think is a, is a much more genuine, authentic path for most people. Like, people can aspire to live that way.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly. Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And like you said, now you're closer to music-
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... charities. What were you passionate about? Like, if you could have done something. Like, for me, I could- I would have been a soccer player if I could have, like, if I was good enough. What would you have done if you could have?
- LGLucy Guo
Well, it's changed over the years. So when I was younger, I wanted to be a singer, but I realize I'm basically tone deaf and I can't sing for my life. [laughs] So that was out the window. And then I remember when I was like, you know, choosing colleges, et cetera, I was like, "It would be really cool to, like, be an FBI agent."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Like, fight the bad guys. Um, but then that's unrealistic because I'm, like, this tiny woman. And, you know, maybe I can learn, you know-
- JSJay Shetty
Maybe
- LGLucy Guo
... some kung fu skills.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
But, like, overall, let's call it unrealistic, right? And then I got really passionate about music, and, um, I finally learned I can actually DJ. You don't need to be able to sing or play the instruments, et cetera, to be able to DJ. So it's been, like, a very cool thing that I've been able to do.
- 26:10 – 27:20
Self-Worth vs. Net Worth
- JSJay Shetty
you separate self-worth from net worth?
- LGLucy Guo
This is really interesting. So I was not a confident person until I went to Miami. And then when I went to Miami, I just became friends with all these people 'cause, uh, they just like my energy, right? Like, I'll just be standing in the elevator and people would come in and be like, "Wow, I feel your energy from far away," blah, blah, blah. It was the first time in my life where, like, I met people that were just like mi casa, su casa with no questions. Um, there's no agenda. And I think in the past, like in LA, San Francisco, and New York, there's always, like, some sort of agenda. People are like, they wanna know who I was. It's like, "Oh, you're a TL fellow. Let me be friends with you." Or, "You're a founder. Oh, you have a fund." Um, Miami was the first time in my life where no one asked what I did, and they just wanted to vibe with me 'cause I gave off good energy. So I became extremely happy there. Um, and I think my self-worth is b- based off of that, where, you know, I have a cl- close relationship with my family again. I'm close with my friends. Um, and every time I meet someone, like, that's a stranger that has no idea who I am, they're just like, "Wow, your energy-"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
"... is so vibey. Let's dance." Um, and that makes me happy 'cause it, like, it shows people like me for me versus, like, my net worth. Um, versus, like, I don't think I had that purity before I had experienced it
- 27:20 – 28:13
Handling Rejection and Failure
- LGLucy Guo
in Miami.
- JSJay Shetty
Entrepreneurially and professionally, what's something that you thought would go your way, but turned into a rejection or a failure?
- LGLucy Guo
Honestly, like, I'm not someone that sits and weeps. Like, I've never really sat and felt sad, so, um, unless, you know, like, a close friend is hurt.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Like, I hear bad news from a close friend. But, like, for myself, whenever I face rejection, I'm like, "Okay, cool. On to the next." So I've never, like, felt extremely hurt. One of the more, like, sad ones might have just been when I was so close to, like, my top VC choice. Like, I was like, "I'm 100% gonna get a term sheet." Like, they're wining and dining me. They just flew out to meet me. And then it was just, like, out of nowhere, it was a no, right? And I was like, "What in the world happened?" Yeah, I was just like, I felt a little bit led on, but also, like, I didn't really sit and feel bad about it. I was like, "Okay,
- 28:13 – 29:33
What Money Really Changes
- LGLucy Guo
cool. On to the next. Let's find a new lead."
- JSJay Shetty
Do you think that mindset's integral and important at that level? Like-
- LGLucy Guo
I think being an extremely positive person that's constantly optimistic is what has gotten me to where I am today. I think the worst thing you can do is think like, "Oh," like, "the world is unfair. Um, why did this happen to me?" Stop thinking that way. Like, everyone is born with advantages and disadvantages. You kind of just have to take what you have and go forwards. And if you face rejection, um, just learn from it and immediately, like, go and fix. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
That mindset obviously worked for you. You've made so much money.
- LGLucy Guo
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You've become such a success story. What problems did money take away, and what problems stayed or got worse?
- LGLucy Guo
When I first started out, before I had any money, I was, like, couch surfing all the time, but I, like, didn't have anything to pair with. Like, I actually loved couch surfing. It was fun. You get to meet a lot of people. Like, I found couches extremely comfy. It was, like, to the point where I had an apartment, I had a bed, and I would sleep on the couch.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
So, like, [laughs] that was, like, nothing but... Like, any stresses of money, like, went away, right? Um, but I also think that, like, what it can cause is you become a little bit too comfortable, which isn't great.
- JSJay Shetty
You've been in so many rooms now with so many successful people, incredible entrepreneurs, people that you've worked with, early days at Snap.
- 29:33 – 31:48
The Power of No Frameworks
- JSJay Shetty
What do you think is the most surprising thing you've noticed about the people at the top? Something that we'd be surprised or shocked to know.
- LGLucy Guo
I think the people at the top are actually not the smartest people in the world at all. I think that they lack frameworks, and because they lack frameworks, they don't understand a concept of, like, how the world works, um, which is actually very good because startups are built when you break frameworks, uh, because you innovate, right? Um, which is why when you take someone in an industry that's been an industry for decades and hire them in, oftentimes, like, they don't innovate 'cause they're like, "Things have to be done this way because things have always been done this way." And again, Airbnb, Uber, great examples of this. They weren't transport experts. They weren't real estate experts. So they didn't have a framework of, like, w- how things are supposed to be. Um, I think the people at the top completely lack frameworks, um, because they didn't have decades of experience. And because of that, um, they were able to innovate. But also they tell their employees. Like, their employees might be like, "That's impossible," and they're like, "I don't care." And their employees might be PhDs, and they're like, "No, literally, I've been doing this for 20 years. I have multiple PhDs. This is impossible." And they're just like, "No, it's not. Go do it."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
Um, and they will say things like, "Okay, whoever does it gets this, like, giant bonus. Whoever does this gets promoted," et cetera. And when people see that prize, that's when people, like, really force themselves to break the framework that they know because they're so desperate to, like, get that thing that was offered to them. I would say, like, when you look at the people at the top, uh, they're not the most educated really. I think that, in general, they have high EQ. Some of them don't have high EQ, but they force the impossible to be possible.
- JSJay Shetty
You're reminding me of that great conversation between Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. And so Steve Wozniak goes up to Steve Jobs and he goes What do you even do? You're not a coder, you're not a marketer, you're not a salesperson, you're not an engineer. What do you even do? And Steve Jobs replies, he says, "Musicians play their instruments, I play the orchestra." And it's such a powerful statement because he doesn't know how to do all the bits and bobs. He just- he's like, "All I know how to do is put it all together and get it to all work in harmony. But I don't really know everything." And I think people, when they're on their journey, they feel like, "I'm not smart enough. I don't know enough. I should be more experienced."
- 31:48 – 33:45
Think Beyond the Rules
- JSJay Shetty
So what's that balance then with you know nothing about an industry, which is a, not having a framework is a positive thing, but then what is different about that entrepreneur that you don't know anything about the industry, you break all the rules, that's what makes you successful?
- LGLucy Guo
I think it's also being visionary. Like, I think Steve Jobs is actually a great example of this where he told his team, like, "I don't care if it's impossible, you're going to figure it out," right? I think Elon Musk has told his team this, uh, et cetera, et cetera. Um, because they lack the frameworks to bel- like, really understand, like, this is impossible, and it might have been impossible at the time. But obviously, like, innovations do happen, um, in technology, and they force their employees to innovate and break those frameworks to make their vision possible. But I think it's being open to the possibility of things, like lacking frameworks, and then just... I don't want to say you, like, they, they had knowledge in, like, technology in general, right? But they might not have been an expert in, like, real estate, in transportation, in industrial design. Um, but I think that you need just enough knowledge, um, and then just enough grit, just enough persuasion to get the smartest people in the room, convince them to innovate.
- JSJay Shetty
It's almost like having that undeniable belief that we can find a way.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's almost like we have to find a way-
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because I'm not gonna accept anything less than that.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly. And I can literally tell you, like, this did happen at Apple, obviously. This happened at SpaceX, and look at, like, Elon now. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Where does the kind of that leadership zeal or approach can often burn a lot of people as well?
- LGLucy Guo
All leaders are extremely controversial and polarizing. Like, there is no leader out there where, like, everyone loves, right? Uh, but I think that being polarizing makes you interesting, and the people that are on your side are going to work their hardest to make you happy and, like, to bring that product idea that you have to life.
- 33:45 – 34:57
Hire the Right People
- JSJay Shetty
What were the biggest challenges you had? Did you, did you have any friction when you were rising up the ranks and building your company and, like, where, where were the points that you hit difficulties?
- LGLucy Guo
This comes down to hiring the right people, and again, like, all leaders are polarizing. Um, but we were, like, all hands on deck. I think at, at every single company I've been at, it's been all hands on deck, where you're not just going to be doing what your job description is. So at scale, we had, like, you know, the engineers labeling data. I had my engineers talking to creators and doing customer support. Um, because I think that when you are deep in the weeds, you're going to really understand, especially, like, when you're working with customers, you're gonna understand, like, what needs to be built, um, what bugs there are, like, what's critical, what's not. Uh, so I think it's extremely important to be in the weeds, especially early stage, and talk to customers and do things outside your job description. Like, even our investors were doing things outside their job description where they were, like, on LinkedIn helping us, like, find new employees to hire. They were, like, uh, cleaning our office for us when we didn't have time to because we were constantly on sales calls. You can imagine that, like, that can create a very polarizing environment because people are like, "I didn't get hired to do this." But the right people that you hire are gonna be willing to be all hands on
- 34:57 – 37:26
AI Won't Replace This
- LGLucy Guo
deck.
- JSJay Shetty
Right now in this AI world that we're living in, what are three skills that humans should develop knowing that AI's gonna be able to do pretty much everything?
- LGLucy Guo
So I think the number one skill they should develop is human connection, like, being able to, like, have high EQ, being able to do sales, et cetera, because that's never going to disappear. AI might be able to, like, you know, reach out to agents, like, negotiate a contract for you, write the contract for you, but how you're going to close the deal is through human connection and how you are able to even, like, win over deals is through human connection, right? Um, like, so much of it, and this goes back to your, like, your network is your net worth, is that, like, things are emotional sales, emotional retention, um, like, even extending a contract, for example. So I think that, like, that's definitely the number one skill in an AI world. Number two is I think develop really good taste in, like, whatever you are-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- LGLucy Guo
... doing. Like, for example, like, AI is going to replace a lot of designers. But the designers with the best taste are gonna be able to pick out, "Okay, like, this is the best design that this AI has generated, so let's go with this."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
And then, uh, I think three, like, figure out how to scale your time with AI, and if you're able to do this sooner than any- everyone else, like, let's say you have an idea and you decide to make an app with AI or, like, you create these bots and, like, that helps you scale your time and be, like, 10X more efficient than everyone else, um, and you sell that bot to help other people in your world be 10X more efficient than everyone else, you're gonna be able to create that wealth, um, before... I don't want to say it's too late, but, like, I do think that AI's gonna make a lot of people rich, but the people that fall behind, it's not gonna be great for them.
- JSJay Shetty
Are you a ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity? What are you using?
- LGLucy Guo
I use different tools depending on the use case. Um, I think anything I want to say, like, consumer related, um, and this can be anything from, like, helping me think of, like, music ideas to researching, like, the best hotels out there. I use Chat, and then for anything enterprise business focus, I use Claude. Nothing really beats out Claude Code, and Claude's new design tool is absolutely phenomenal. And what's cool is that, like, you know, you could literally design something in Claude Design and then import it into Claude Code, which is- Great. Um, even like little details, like Claude is really good at designing, um, like full-scale applications, so like UX, UI, et cetera. But if I want like a simple graphic edit that I would normally use Photoshop to do, Chat's actually better at that. There's different reasons to use different tools.
- 37:26 – 38:42
Using AI to Hire Better
- JSJay Shetty
How has AI changed the way you're hiring for your new companies versus your old one?
- LGLucy Guo
I actually im- like include AI questions, uh, in every single role right now. And, um, right now I am actually asking my entire team to give take-homes to non-technical roles. Um, so for example, with our AE roles, um, so sales, it's like, "I want you to figure out how to use Cursor, Replit, like Claude Code, to create a bot where it's like you take an Instagram profile and guesstimate like how much a person will earn." Because, A, like that's extremely simple to do using AI tools, and B, I, I can see kinda how you think based on how you prompt it, like what metrics are you looking at, um, what are you scraping on the internet, et cetera, to get this number out there. I think that every employee needs to be using AI to be a 10X employee now. So if they're, they haven't taken the proactiveness to actually do that themselves, I wanna see how quickly they can learn over a weekend. 'Cause I do think that like some people just like, you know, haven't, just-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- LGLucy Guo
... haven't decided or haven't been in a role where they're like, "Let me learn," but it's so quick to learn. Like I think learning trajectory is everything. So if someone can learn quickly, they could easily become a 10X employee, um, versus someone that like might have had more experience but is stagnant and resistant to learning. So I think take-home challenges are really great for this, 'cause within 48 hours you can see like, okay, cool, like how much did you do?
- 38:42 – 39:34
Which Jobs AI May Replace
- JSJay Shetty
What job do you think looks safe today but won't exist in 10 years?
- LGLucy Guo
I think that there are certain creative jobs that look safe today that won't exist in the future. Let's call it like being a like videographer, photographer. That is a h- very human job that's not very analytical. It's very artistic, et cetera. But I actually think that most models are gonna be AI-generated. Like a lot of humans are gonna license out their likeness, so AI is going to generate a bunch of different videos and photos. Editors might still exist, right? Like, or like the tastemakers will go in and choose the right one and edit it to be what it should've been. Certain jobs like that, like even writers, right? Like AI is going to get extremely good at writing, but editing will still exist.
- JSJay Shetty
What's the biggest mistake
- 39:34 – 41:11
The Biggest AI Misconception
- JSJay Shetty
people are making with AI right now?
- LGLucy Guo
The biggest mistake would probably just be assuming that AI works really well. They're just assuming everything outputted is true, right? Like AI is really only as good as the data that you give it, so if you feed a model like, "The sky is red," it's gonna output, "The sky is red." This happens everywhere, even with engineering, right? Like if AI makes one mistake and then it continues to create more and more bugs, but you trust the AI to code for you, that's not great. Which is why right now, like if you take a great engineer and give it AI, like it becomes 100X engineer. But if you take like a mid-level or, or entry-level engineer and give it AI, you're just gonna actually end up with a lot of tech debt, because they're not fixing the problems that AI's generating. But I think this exists across the spectrum.
- JSJay Shetty
When did you first start learning about AI?
- LGLucy Guo
I mean, I would say it probably started with Scale. Scale was the picks and shovels of the AI industry, right? We weren't creating these like innovative new foundation models. We were literally labeling the data. So like we would have self-driving car companies s- send us lidar data, images, videos, and we had labelers around the world say like, "That's a car. That's a pedestrian. That's a stop sign on the road." Like that was what we were extremely good at, and that's always going to be needed, because it goes back to like your model is only as good as the data that you feed it. That was when I really started learning like how important data is. Because even like with generative AI, like if it generates something wrong and it thinks it's correct, like you're gonna get more wrong generations, and that's not great, which is why like reinforcement learning is always going to be a thing. But yeah, like I would say like that was probably, so back in 2016 was when I first started like understanding AI.
- JSJay Shetty
You learned about AI in 2016.
- 41:11 – 43:41
Make AI Work for You
- JSJay Shetty
50 to 60% of the current US population have used AI at least once, and that shows that we just feel like AI just came around two years ago. What's the thing that people like yourself are talking about right now that the world is only gonna catch up with in 10 years? You were talking about AI 10 years ago, and the average person was not talking about AI. They didn't even know it was coming.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah. I mean, 10 years is a really long time, but I think that right now what I'm thinking about constantly is what's gonna happen to college students. Because, like I said, AI can make someone exceptional really, really great. But when you take someone entry level, AI does their job better. Like Claude just shut down Fable, so it's no longer accessible, but Fable is as good as a staff engineer. It's absolutely incredible. So if you're a really great engineer, holy crap, you're gonna be like 1000X engineer. And the better you are, the more useful AI is. But again, if you're like, you know, entry level and you're using it, like you're not going to be able to utilize it in the same way and it's not great. I think in general with new technologies, new jobs are created. Like prompt engineering is a new job, right? And it's an extremely important new job. So and like now we have a bunch of people labeling data, because that's a new job and that's a huge industry.
- JSJay Shetty
For people who don't know, what does a prompt engineer do?
- LGLucy Guo
They basically prompt the AI to output what you want it to output.
- JSJay Shetty
Okay. So having someone who's so good at writing a prompt.
- LGLucy Guo
So, so, yeah, so good at writing prompts that like you get the output that you want.
- JSJay Shetty
Because everyone's just putting in these average prompts.
- LGLucy Guo
Exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
My best guess is that like AI has actually democratized being able to start companies and be an entrepreneur, so I think more people are gonna become entrepreneurs. Um, because before you would need to, you know, raise a ton of money, then hire engineers and a huge team, and then go build the product, and now AI's building products like that for free, really, um, or extremely cheap. So I think ideas people are actually going to be able to execute way better than before. Like in the past, like it was like, "Okay, cool, like if you're not an engineer, I don't wanna invest in you." But now someone that's an ideas person can literally use AI to generate something and get traction on it, and then be able to fundraise. And you can now raise significantly less money to get to metrics that you would need to get to to, before you can raise a series A. So because it's a lot cheaper to start companies and run companies, I do think it's gonna democratize the access to being an entrepreneur, and like that is going to be a middle ground people are gonna take when like, you know, students realize like, "Oh, shit, what do I do? Like I can't get a job." They're gonna figure out how to use AI to start their own
- 43:41 – 45:11
The Joy of Building
- LGLucy Guo
companies.
- JSJay Shetty
Did you always know you were gonna be this successful?
- LGLucy Guo
I always knew I was gonna start companies. And the reason why is because, like, when I was younger, I was always just figuring out how to make money and build things. Like, I really enjoyed building things and seeing people use my products.
- JSJay Shetty
What would you build as a kid?
- LGLucy Guo
So I built, like, a virtual pet site. I don't know how I convinced a bunch of engineers, designers, artists to work for me for free. So I built out a virtual pet site.
- JSJay Shetty
How old were you?
- LGLucy Guo
I think I was in, like, fifth grade or something.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, like, fifth, sixth grade. Really, really young. I built, like, arcade game websites. I built, like, Twitter bots, internet marketing tools. But what was really exciting to me was just, like, it could be, like, a really crappy website, like, based off of WordPress, but I would submit it on StumbleUpon, and I'd be like, "Oh my God, there's 10,000 people on my website." Like, I just love seeing people use my products. And then I would say, like, in college when I discovered hackathons, which was very early on, like, my freshman year, I was like, "I'm going to build a company." Because my first time seeing that there was, like, so much more to the world than just building internet marketing tools, I was like, "Wow, I can build extremely impactful companies that really change how someone lives their day-to-day life." But in terms of being successful, I think that it goes back to, like, a- probably after I joined the Thiel Fellowship, I didn't necessarily think like, "Oh, I'm gonna be a billionaire." But I looked around, and everyone around me was raising tens of millions of dollars. They were, like, shooting to really change the world with their companies. And obviously, like, I think valuation is a direct measure of how impactful your product and your idea has been to the world. So did I think I was going to impact the world? Like, I guess yes. I didn't know to what scale.
- JSJay Shetty
How does it
- 45:11 – 47:25
Becoming a Self-Made Billionaire
- JSJay Shetty
feel to be the youngest female billionaire in the world? Like, how does that feel?
- LGLucy Guo
I'm still the same person as I was when I was younger, right? Like, I think the difference is, like, when I was maybe 20 years old, I was literally skateboarding to Barry's Bootcamp, and now I have someone that drives me to Barry's Bootcamp. Um-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] But you're still at Barry's Bootcamp. Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
But I'm still at Barry's Bootcamp every single day at 6:00 AM. I still wake up at 5:30 AM every day. Um, I'm still in the office, like, until late. Like, I always try to be, like, one of the first people in the office and one of the last people to leave, although Brittany might have me beat here. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
With being the first, not the last to leave.
- JSJay Shetty
What do you think you had that was different about you that made you design sites when you were in fifth grade? Or what did you have that people around you didn't have?
- LGLucy Guo
I didn't have friends. [laughs] Sorry, I had to say that. That was like you were feeding it to me. Um, but no, I had extremely strict Asian parents, right? So, um, my parents didn't really let me have sleepovers. Um, and then I wasn't allowed to do, like, sports, et cetera. So for me, I didn't really have friends. I was not cool, right? I was just... I- no one wanted to be my friend, and I wasn't allowed pets either. So I think it all started really with Neopets. I, um, started, like, you know, messing around with the internet, and then I was like, "Wait, this is really cool. I want my own version of this." As for, like, why I wanted my own version, why I loved building things, like, I learned how to use Photoshop pretty early on. Like, I was learning PHP, like, how to build WordPress sites and edit them. I don't really know, like, why I had that desire. That was almost, like, innate in me, I want to say. I would've been a professional athlete if I didn't have Asian parents.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
I think that was really it.
- JSJay Shetty
What, what sport?
- LGLucy Guo
I was really good at swim. I had a lot of medals. Uh, I was very good at basketball. Um, and then right now I have Olympic qualifying times on the treadmill on, like, a very good day. Um, but not in the US. I'd have to, like, go move to Singapore and then compete for Singapore where I have no competition.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Um, but I think one of those three.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow. Still any dreams? Are we gonna see a Olympic run in the future?
- LGLucy Guo
[laughs] Uh, I have Olympic friends that are, are very upset I'm not sidequesting to be an Olympian-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- LGLucy Guo
... because they've seen me work out, and they're like, "You should absolutely train for the Olympics."
- JSJay Shetty
You gotta do it.
- LGLucy Guo
I've been recruited, actually, by Olympic, like, training groups.
- JSJay Shetty
Really?
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah. But, um, no, my sidequest is currently DJing.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah.
- 47:25 – 48:47
Lessons From Parenting
- JSJay Shetty
I love that. I don't know if you'd decide or plan on being a parent ever, but, like, how do you feel about that? You had strict Asian parents. Do you agree with that? Did it work? Would you do it the same way? What would you change?
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah, so I think the thing I would change is that, like, I wouldn't force my kids into a passion. Um, and my parents actually didn't force me into, like, my passion, um, per se. Like, they actually wanted me to be a pharmacist 'cause they're like, "Oh, you can work three days a week."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
Like, "You'll be able to, like, find a good husband, get married." And I was like, "That sounds like my worst nightmare, working three days a week. I would be so bored. I don't know what I would do." [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLucy Guo
So clearly that didn't happen, but I think that prodigies are made, and I would want to throw everything at my kids and find what they're passionate about, and I think people are generally passionate about what they're good at. So I would figure out what they're good at and what they seem to enjoy-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- LGLucy Guo
... and then really accelerate their development in that one thing, whether it's math, whether it's, like, being an F1 racer. Because, um, if you're able to get, like, a multi-year head start, you're just gonna be above everyone else, right? Um-
- JSJay Shetty
I love it.
- LGLucy Guo
So I don't wanna force them into passion, but once I find it, like, I want them to be the very best in their passion.
- JSJay Shetty
Lucy, honestly, whenever we spend time together, I laugh a lot. I learn a lot.
- LGLucy Guo
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
Uh, you're exceptionally sharp and smart. I mean, I could tell just how much you thought about the questions, that you gave me answers that surprised me or ones that I've definitely not heard before.
- LGLucy Guo
Oh, I'm glad.
- 48:47 – 52:05
Lucy on Final Five
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Thank you. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. We end every episode of On Purpose with a Final Five. These have to be answered in one sentence maximum.
- LGLucy Guo
Okay.
- JSJay Shetty
So, Lucy Guo, these are your Final Five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
- LGLucy Guo
I mean, this is pretty simple, but I would say the best piece of advice I ever received is just, like, just ask, 'cause the worst thing that can happen is that you get a no. And I do this for really everything in my life still. And you have to be able to handle rejection. So-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- LGLucy Guo
... be able to handle rejection and just ask.
- JSJay Shetty
Perfect. Uh, question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
- LGLucy Guo
So I think the worst piece of advice I've ever received is that you need to hire executives with decades-long experience to have, like, an adult in the company.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLucy Guo
Because especially early stage, when you have an adult in the company, what they end up doing is bloating your team up, and that's not great for early stage, obviously, because you end up burning a lot more money.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, it's, it's so interesting, isn't it? 'Cause you always go through this, like, do you need a young team? Do you have to bring an adult in?
- LGLucy Guo
You want a young team.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Very, very emphatic.
- LGLucy Guo
If they get in trouble. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs] You're very emphatic. Question number three, what's something that you learned at 30 that you wish you knew at 20?
- LGLucy Guo
I think when people believe that you're wealthy, it is a lot easier to move around in this world. Um, and I say this as someone that used to take pride in dressing in, like, Shein, Walmart, et cetera. I realized how much easier life gets if I just present myself nicer. Um, it opens a lot more doors, and this goes back to, like, your network is your net worth. But you actually do want those doors open oftentimes.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. And what if, what if people say things like, "Oh, but that doesn't feel authentic to me," and, "That's not real," and I'm pre- like, what's your take when people say something like that?
- LGLucy Guo
I think there is a way to be presentable and still feel authentic.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- LGLucy Guo
Um, but it also depends on, like, are you down to have that trade-off, right? But I just remembered the change and how much easier life got and the connections I've been able to make since I stopped taking pride in dressing like a hobo. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLucy Guo
Yeah. And, like, those are great connections that have opened a lot of doors for me.
- JSJay Shetty
Question number four, who are your entrepreneurial heroes?
- LGLucy Guo
I actually really admire Whitney Wolfe because, um, we all know the story how she was kicked out of Tinder, right? But instead of, you know, sitting and having victim mentality and being sad, she literally went, "Fuck you," and created a direct competitor that's doing better, which is just awesome. Like, I love that mentality of a fighter.
- JSJay Shetty
Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Lucy, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
- LGLucy Guo
I mean, I, this is so basic, but I think just be nice to every human being, right? Uh, I think kindness makes the world go around.
- JSJay Shetty
Lucy Guo, thank you so much. Uh, as I said, I've learned so much. Look forward to spending lots more time together. Excited to see what you're gonna go build next.
- LGLucy Guo
Yay. Lots of things.
Episode duration: 52:05
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Transcript of episode 9fCGS4w-z0w
