Jay Shetty PodcastPut Yourself First and STOP People Pleasing (The Key to Real Connection!)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
75 min read · 14,994 words- 0:00 – 0:30
Intro
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I stopped people pleasing when I realized the people that I was trying to please were not trying to reciprocate that energy to me. I also realized that I was putting myself second almost all the time for other people with very little reciprocation. I had to stop for my own sanity and for my own [laughs] self-respect. When you compare your efforts to others, and you almost look and you can see, they've got boundaries that I don't have. Because if I ask them to do what they're asking me, they would say no. Why would they say no?
- 0:30 – 4:12
The Pain of Feeling Unloved by Family
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Is it because they're a horrible person? Is it because of this, or they're selfish? No, it's because of their boundary.
- JSJay Shetty
The number one health and wellness podcast.
- SPSpeaker
Jay Shetty.
- SPSpeaker
Jay Shetty.
- SPSpeaker
The one, the only, Jay Shetty.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
How does it feel when at four years old you hear from a grandparent that they don't love you?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Oh, wow. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
That's how you start the book.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
[laughs] Yeah. Um, okay, so that was the first time I ever felt the impact of words physically. I didn't know that words can hurt you. I didn't even know there was a thing as internal pain. I was only four, and I was used to getting a little slap behind the back of the leg if I did something naughty. But to be told, especially when my entire reality was based on love, I had a really great home growing up. So to, to be told that was really difficult to comprehend. But the physical pain of my chest, my heart, it literally felt like somebody was trying to split it, and I will never forget that pain because it was the first time I've ever felt it. And when I explained to my mother what happened and I described the pain, it's almost like she knew, "Okay, my family's gotten to her now. It was a good four years." But she didn't ever want me to experience that, and I did. And if I'm being honest with you, it really took away a lot of my innocence as well. I was robbed of innocence during that time. I don't think children should know what it's like to be hurt or spoken to badly or have to cry themselves at nighttime or sitting on the sofa waiting for their parents to come home and, you know, feeling sad. It's not an emotion that a child should have to feel. I felt it, and, um, it's a lasting memory that I would always remember.
- SPSpeaker
Why did he say it? Did you ever ask him, or did you-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Um
- SPSpeaker
... ever find out?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
My grandfather was a interesting man. He actually passed away four days before my book came out.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah, and it's been intense, uh, because I was caring for him as well, a request that was given to me by my mother, which I mentioned in the book. My grandfather, he lived a very selfish life, in a sense where he didn't care how he hurt people, what his words did. He didn't care. He was a happy-go-lucky rum drinker, [laughs] you know? As a man, he did what he had to do for his family. He provided. But as a person, he wasn't that great. Um, he had great friends. You know, in the family, in the West Indies, everyone would think he was this great guy. But actually to live with him, he was a bit of a monster. The reason why I'm being careful with my words is because my grandfather and I went on a journey in the last two years of me caring for him, and I forgave him, and he explained to me the reasonings behind his treatment towards his children. And it was simply put, what he experienced is what he provided. So there's a level of generational ignorance that was passed down from my grandfather, and the ricochet of that is why I'm sitting right here with this book in your hand. There wasn't that much emotional intelligence, um, with my grandparents. You know, they would do something to you, they wouldn't apologize, and that was kind of something the generation that they came from were accustomed to doing. Apologizing to your children is not really something that you hear people do. My mother apologized to me many times. She said to me one time, you know, "Anything that I experienced in my house growing up, I will not bring here." So my grandfather was
- 4:12 – 10:20
Would You Take Care of Someone Who Doesn't Love You?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
just a character that I knew was always miserable, always angry, drinking, loved to watch cricket, and that was basically it. [laughs] He wasn't a great person to be around if you were looking for motivation or anything positive.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. Wow. How did it feel... I didn't even think we're gonna go down this direction, but it's, it, I have to ask, like, how did it feel to care for someone who told you they didn't love you that early in your life? Because that process seems to be, I know when I'm speaking to a lot of my community or I'm reading comments or I read DMs and I really listen in on what my community cares about so I can serve them better, and a lot of people find themselves in that position, where someone who's caused them pain is the person that they're now caring for-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... or they're supporting or they're in the same house for years. And the question is always, "Jay, how do I survive around someone like that, let alone care for them?" So how did you even reconcile it in the beginning of that two-year journey? Because that feels like the ultimate test of everything that you're saying in the book.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Well, this is gonna sound so strange, but in my spirit this morning, I knew you were gonna ask me something like that.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And I saw that you shared something on your stories. Um, somebody asked you about their relationship with their mother, and your reply was forgiveness and empathy, and that's it, Jay. That's literally it. I, my mother asked me to care for my grandfather as she was passing away, and reluctantly I said yes, because that was my best friend. And I knew that there was a reason behind it. And at the time I didn't-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... want to do it, but I just knew for future Meggan, this is an investment that I actually have to go through and devote myself to. And it was literally for that. My mother's last lesson was for me to care for my grandfather so I can understand the power of forgiveness. I thought I understood forgiveness, but I didn't. [laughs] I didn't.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Looking after my grandfather-Meant that I had to create new boundaries. I had to stand up for myself in so many ways. There were so many rumors, um, spread by other malicious family members of mine that were untrue, that I had to, like, work my way around whilst grieving for my mom. You know, my grandfather was left unattended for the years that I was looking after my mother when she was passing away from stage four cancer. We actually went to the West Indies, and when I got back, I assumed that my mother's siblings were looking after him, but they weren't. So when I got back, I was faced with the responsibility of looking after him, renovating his house, bringing him back to a full bill of health, which I did.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And during that entire process, there was a level of trust that had to be obtained. Even helping my grandfather walk again, I had to literally help him walk. And there were times where he would just be like, "Pass me the Guinness. [laughs] I haven't got time for this. I'll just sit here," you know, and then there were other times where he was really determined. And it was through these experiences that I had no other choice but to seek forgiveness because I was spending a lot of time with him. And then there were a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of things that I needed for my own journey, um, a lot of things that I wanted to, a lot of chapters that I wanted to close for my mother, even though she passed away, just, just for the principle of it, you know. So my grandfather and I did a lot of talking. When I became more aware of his reasonings, um, his justifications, which weren't great at all, but transparently truthful, I then started to develop a level of respect for him. It takes a lot of bravery and courage at 90 years old to admit [laughs] where you've gone wrong in life and actually apologize to somebody less than half your age.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Especially if it's not part of your culture or it's not part, something that you've s- you've been raised to do. So when my grandfather passed away, you know, I, I went to view his body and I sat there and I just thought to myself, "It is well. It is well. The chapter is closed. I, I broke that curse. Moving on. My children don't have to hear about their great-grandfather," with so much anger in my voice.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I can just say-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... I could talk about the last two years. I don't have to talk about everything that happened before because I've healed past that. And the reason why we do heal, obviously, for our own harmony, but so we don't pass on more pain.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I didn't have to inherit my family's pain and trauma, but I did, but it's my duty and my job to ensure that I don't pass it on, and I think that's what my mother was trying to teach me behind the importance of forgiveness, is to put a final stop to it so that you can move on and live your life, but you have to forgive. 'Cause I had so much anger in my heart for my grandfather, but then when I saw him and his little efforts of determination to get walking again, or I might go and see him in the morning and he might make me some pilau, you know, um, or some curry goat and pilau or whatnot, and I'd think, "Okay, there's something bubbling here, and I'm not gonna be the person to interrupt that. Let me just see where this journey takes us." So when he passed away, I, I was happy for him. I was happy that he was able to transition. I prayed for him, and I was able to walk away knowing that I don't have to carry that burden anymore.
- SPSpeaker
Mm. What, what's so valuable with the insight you just shared is that you were able to place the virtue of forgiveness above how you felt-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... about it.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Because it meant something to your mom, because you believed that it had something to do with a better future for Meggan, and I find that to be remarkable in a time where I feel we've actually gone the other way.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
So a lot of the time, we're so fixated on what makes me feel good now, what makes me comfortable now, what feels right for me now. And it's really interesting because I've been thinking about this a lot lately, that this pursuit of virtues-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... is actually the only way you'll ever be happy. Because even if you did what you wanted now, and you disregarded everything else, later on,
- 10:20 – 16:20
How Do You Enforce Your Boundaries?
- SPSpeaker
you still haven't healed or created and built forgiveness, and so you're still living in that bitterness and that pain, even if the person passes away, and even if you were away from them for years and years and years.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
But how do we reconcile that? Like, at what point is it self-disrespect to aspire for a virtue while someone is potentially creating havoc in your life? Like, what, how do you see that in terms of setting boundaries in, "I'm gonna care for them because I see this virtue being there, but then at the same time, I'm not just gonna allow myself to be abused or disrespected"?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm. Growing up, I witnessed my mother do various things to contribute to her healing, whether it was yoga, whether it was going for walks, meditation, simply spending [laughs] time alone, also forgiving, enforcing her boundaries, which was really difficult for her. Uh, she was the first child of six siblings, so she didn't really get to enforce her boundaries, nor did her siblings care or honor them, and I watched that growing up. And I think one of the most profound, um, experiences that I spoke about in the book was when she bumped into her father when they were in Sainsbury's, and they reunited, and they had their conversations, and she ended up looking after him. And there was one day where he was rude to her. [laughs] And I remember coming home from college, and she was cooking really fast. [laughs] And, um, I could just smell the curry from downstairs, and I was like, "Okay, it's the middle of the week. Mom usually cooks on a Sunday. Are we having guests?" No. The guest was the anger [laughs] that came from the experience she had with her father. She enforced her boundary.And it was the first time she's done it in years.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And she didn't know how to respond. And I watched that, and I watched how it actually strengthened the relationship with her father because he started to respect it. And he, I think he also realized there's no one else left, so if I'm going to have this relationship, I'm going to have to ensure that I stick to the rules to keep-
- SPSpeaker
For sure
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... it healthy. So with me now, with the same man, [laughs] having to go through the same experiences, my boundary enforcement came very quickly. There was one day where I bought him a bottle of Guinness, you know, he did a lot of things that day, and we did a reward system where if he did, uh, 100 steps, you know, and, and this and that, we'll give him some-something. He loved Guinness, so I bought him a bottle of Guinness, and it was warm. So he kind of threw it at me, and he was like, "Put it in the freezer, it's warm." And I said, "Actually, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go home, [laughs] and I'm gonna leave the bottle right there, and you can put it in the freezer yourself. I'm not having that. That is absolutely rude." And I got up, and I left. And he called me, and he called me, and he called me, and I picked up, and I said, "I'm, I'm not coming back until you apologize, 'cause that was really rude." And when I got back, he made breakfast. You know, he, he cleaned downstairs. Like, everything that I usually get him to do every day, he did it all in one day. And, you know, he apologized and sat down, and we had a conversation, and I said to him, "Moving forward, this is not happening. Because I'm not gonna care for you and deplete my own energy at the same time. That's insane." I, but I've watched my mother do that. So throughout this entire process, I just learnt that my no is my no, my yes is my yes. If I don't like something, I tell the person. I don't feel bad about telling the person, because what's the, what's the, what's the other option? I take the bad treatment while they're none the wiser that it's hurting me? It doesn't serve anybody. So the boundary enforcement, I think I gained a lot of confidence over the span of two years, looking after my grandfather, enforcing my boundaries, standing in my word and not being scared. And that was one of the most powerful things that I learnt. So it wasn't difficult. It was more, if I respect myself and love myself, I will put these boundaries in place so that I don't deplete myself every time I come to visit this person. And if they respect and love and honor me, and even are thankful for my devotion to caring for them, they will ensure that the environment is healthy and safe. And that was literally the case. If it wasn't, I would've just walked away, paid the NHS staff to look after him and check in every now and then, because I have to put myself first. And I learnt that with my mother's story as well.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I hope that's really refreshing for people to hear, because I feel like when we think of forgiveness, we think of it as, like, this fully all-encompassing thing where there's no boundaries. You just give in. And to hear that clarity, because I've found that when we don't set boundaries, what we don't realize, we keep enabling that person to behave that way.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And we become enablers. We think we're helping them, but actually, we're hurting them.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And the only one we're helping is ourselves, 'cause we feel better about ourselves for a second, where we're like, "Oh, I'm so tolerant, and I did everything just perfectly for them." But then what we don't realize is we're just continuing that behavior.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
One thing I've discovered, really hearing from everything you're saying, is that there's three types of people in life. The first is someone who repeats the pain they saw. The second is someone who does the opposite of the pain they saw. And the third is someone who heals from that pain and gives people what they never had, and creates a space for people to have the life that they never got the opportunity to have. And it sounds like you chose that third option.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And anyone who chooses that third option protects their future selves.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm. They've got boundaries that I don't have. Because if I ask them to do what they're asking me, they would say no. Why would they say no? An elder once told me, everything your body gi- everything your intuition or your gut gives to you, your subconscious, you write it down, you acknowledge it, and you say, "I don't have the time to do that right now, but I'm gonna write that down. Thank you." Because imagine if, as your subconscious, I'm your subconscious, I keep giving you these great ideas, and you keep ignoring me. Eventually, one day, I'm gonna stop communicating with you. If your parent
- 16:20 – 23:06
Are You a Chronic People Pleaser?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
is about to pass away because they're dying from a disease, record content. Because there are random days where I just wanna hear my mom's voice, and I can have a list of videos, and I could hear her laugh and joke about things, and it's almost like she's still here.
- SPSpeaker
What's the difference between people-pleasing and wanting people to be happy? Because I think people get that confused. They don't know the difference. How would you define what a people-pleaser is versus someone who likes to see people happy?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Okay, so from the, a chronic people-pleaser myself- [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... I would say just acknowledging the fact that you do not control somebody's happiness. It doesn't matter if you give them everything they want, there's gonna be another factor in their lives that's gonna implicate their ability to be completely happy. So it's not your responsibility. It's not your purpose to make other people happy, and it's, it's a job that's never [laughs] gonna have a reward, because there's so many factors to our happiness anyway, one person can't achieve that. So for me, with people-pleasing, I just realized that as much as I do want to make this person happy, my happiness also is valid, and it's also important to me. So I have to set boundaries, and you have to enforce your boundaries with peop- with people in general. I always want to ensure that I'm curating a healthy space for people, whether it's in my home or wherever it is. As long as you're in my presence, I want you to be happy. I want you to feel seen, heard, appreciated, valued, understood. But again, not at my own detriment. So if I'm not receiving the same thing from you, then something has to give or something has to stop. I stopped people-pleasing when I realized the people that I was trying to please were not trying to reciprocate that energy to me. I also realized that I was putting myself second almost all the time for other people, with very little reciprocation. I just decided that it just wasn't for me. There's a whole backstory in my book about people-pleasing, and it explains my journey on that. But in the short formI had to stop for my own sanity and for my own [laughs] self-respect, especially when you look, when you compare your efforts to others, and you almost look, and you can see they've got boundaries that I don't have. Because if I ask them to do what they're asking me, they would say no. Why would they say no? Is it because they're a horrible person? Is it because of this, or they're selfish? No, it's because of their boundary. So I realized that everybody around me had their boundaries when it came to me, but as I was people-pleasing, I didn't have any for anybody else. And on top of that, with people-pleasing, it just takes you to lengths that you were never prepared to go, you know? And it's just unfair to put yourself in that position. Do the best you can to support, but never at your own detriment, and if it is going to be at your own detriment, then that's something that you have to sit down and discuss with yourself. Okay, this is costing me this, but what am I learning in the process? When does it come to an end? What are my boundaries in this, i- particular experience? But across the board, I would say scrap people-pleasing as a whole. You don't need to do that, and the people around you will feel uncomfortable with you doing that anyway. You know, there's a lot of my friends that would be like, "Relax, you're overcompensating." [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Just to put me back into s- into, into gear because people-pleasing isn't, well, the habits of people-pleasing isn't going to stop overnight. It's actual small practices that you have to implement on a day-to-day to rewire this, this-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... brain of ours to stop doing this nonsense. But, um, yeah, I think boundaries, enforcing your boundaries is, is the main, is the key thing-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... to putting an end to people-pleasing and just realizing that, put that love into yourself. Put that devotion and that time and that energy into yourself. Why are you so scared to do that? 'Cause you'll find a lot of people who people please, they don't actually have great relationships with themselves. So just, that energy's great, but just bring it back to yourself, you know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
First. Similar to when you're on the airplane, you have to put the mask on first before you help other people. It's very similar.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, well said. I, I, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that I stopped people-pleasing when I realized that there was nothing I could possibly do to actually please someone fully, that there'd always be some gap, some blemish, some mistake-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... even if I tried with the deepest, purest intention. And I recognized that actually, if I simply tried to create a space for people to flourish, and then it was up to them to make the most of it.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And if they didn't-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... I could only make the space better.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But I couldn't please them.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
I could improve the environment, but I couldn't improve them. I think that's when we fail is when we make a person our project, or we make a person our purpose, or we make a person our obsession, as opposed to the environment and the space and the energy, which you can control. You can control the energy someone feels when they walk into your house.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You can't control whether they wanna rise to that energy or whether they wanna bring it down. You can control the energy someone has in your workspace, but you can't control whether they're going to subscribe to that energy or unfollow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Like, you can't change that.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And so I think if, you're spot on, that if we spent more time curating energy that we emanate and that we live by in the spaces that we walk into have, then now we're leaving it up to everyone else.
- 23:06 – 34:59
How The Good Quote Started
- SPSpeaker
for many, many years, so a lot of the mediation I do today is, is because that's the role I've always played.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And so with you, I got this sense that your emotional vocabulary grew very young in life.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And then you felt like sharing it.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
I wanted to ask you, you were talking about 2011 was Tumblr, where you started sharing wisdom. 2014 was when The Good Quote was, was taken out. When you started writing and sharing these experiences, how scared or worried were you originally about how they'd be seen, and how long did it take you to even have the courage to, like, write and put out your first post?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Firstly, to dive deeper into the reasonings behind The Good Quote, there are so many quote pages out there. Um, The Good Quote does have the most followers because we started, but it wasn't a hustle. It wasn't something that I thought... I, I didn't even think of money, you know? Uh, it was a hobby, and it was something that came from desperation, lack of community. I was in a really dark place, and I couldn't find the community that I was looking for, so I had no other option but to create it myself. On Tumblr, Tumblr is a beautiful platform. Oh, my gosh, I absolutely love it. It's just, it doesn't have any of the metrics that we fuss over on a- all the other platforms. It's just, it is what it is. You don't care about the followers. You can put your whole self on there, and somebody is gonna follow you because they like you.That's what I think is amazing about Tumblr. It's just a blank page, blog post. Someone's gonna read your blog, and if they like it or if they resonate with it, that's a follower. That's now one member of your community. So when I started, um, Tumblr, I was listening to Wiz Khalifa. Um, he had a mixtape called Cushion Orange Juice, and there's a song on there, and oh my gosh, every time I come on podcasts, I, I talk about it, and I never get the name of the song. It goes something like, um, "We belong at the top" or something like that. And I was in a really bad [laughs] place when I was listening to that. I dropped out of uni. My friends were making their lives, and I was still very stuck. And I listened to the lyrics, and it's very simple, you know, and I just thought to myself, "Yeah, actually, I'm gonna make it. I'm actually gonna make it. Just gotta keep telling myself that." Okay. Wow. That's what that quote did for me? That, that was my first initial feeling. That's what-
- SPSpeaker
The lyric.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah, that's what the lyric did for me. Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So I went onto Tumblr. [laughs] And I, I tried to blog with, um, WordPress. Uh, I, I remember at the time Vice was starting to really emerge, and I joined a Vice blogging network, and I had my own blog, and nothing worked. And then I got on Tumblr, and I took a picture of Wiz Khalifa, and I put that lyric that touched me on top of that picture. I darkened it. I posted it with some hashtags, and I fell asleep. And the next day, I woke up to, like, 12,000 followers and a whole bunch of requests. And I was like, "Okay." Wiz Khalifa was really popular at the time, so I think I kinda jumped on that. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
But the fact is, nobody else was making picture quotes out of positive hip-hop lyrics.
- SPSpeaker
Wow. Wow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And then I s- I never told any of my friends that this blog was mine. I started seeing my friends' display pictures on BlackBerry Messenger and Facebook change to my quotes. And then I realized that there were people who were going through things that would find a particular quote and put it on their display picture, so now you know they're in their emotions today. They're sad about this. And it kinda made it easier to share how you're feeling within without having to actually vocalize it. So for me, Cushion Wisdom on Tumblr was just, like, wow, I didn't know I can connect to this many people. I didn't think people needed these quotes as much as I did, but I have 12,000 people that resonate with me now. So three weeks into launching Tumblr, I started a clothing line called Cool Story Bro, which was a slogan back in the day. And my mother was an accountant, a k- a bookkeeper at the time, and she was making about 40,000 a year. And I pulled in 36,000 pounds in three weeks for just selling that clothing based on that community. And I kept it very transparent. "I'm building this. I'm, I'm, I'm putting this for sale because I'm trying to figure out what it is that I'm doing with my creativity, so it's... I'm investing in myself. You can purchase if you want." So many orders, Jay. And it made me realize how needed this platform is. People really need encouragement. You know? People really need to be seen. And just as Cushion Wisdom started to grow, my mother got diagnosed with breast cancer, so I took a year off, and I cared for her. Um, and during that year, I think I kinda lost the momentum of Cushion Wisdom. I met my business partner in a Caribbean restaurant, and he was like, "This is what you should be doing. We can do this. We can do that. We move over to The Good Quote." And on The Good Quote, it was a bit different because I, instead of taking pictures that I didn't take and other people's lyrics I didn't write, I had to find writers. So I went onto Twitter, and I started looking for writers, and I found a bunch. New, up-and-coming writers, maybe 500 followers, 1,000 followers. But I was reading through their timelines, and I was like, "Oh, shit, this is really... I like this." And the demand on Instagram was much more than Tumblr, so I went from posting a few times a day on Tumblr to 24 hours a day on Instagram. And I was explaining this to other pe- anytime people ask me about this story, I tell them. I slept for 50 minutes, [laughs] and then I would wake up, quickly post, 'cause there was no scheduling.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
There was no scheduling apps.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I was going mad. My mental health was declining [laughs] by the day.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
But my followers, I gained a million followers in a month.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
In my first month. We, we, we've never seen anything like that before. And every celebrity at one stage was following us. We had, um... When I met you in LA, I actually messaged Khloe Kardashian, and she replied, you know? And so many people. I actually had an, uh, I think the first person that had beef with us was a, a singer called Keri Hilson. I think we credited her inco- incorrectly. Found out that it wasn't even her quote. [laughs] I mean, this is just between me and you. But it was insane the impact that it had. And I didn't have any confidence to post my stuff. I didn't.
- SPSpeaker
Hmm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
'Cause I psyched myself up to believe that I'm just a distributor. I'm not the talent. I find the talent, and I bring it to the platform for the community. This isn't about me. And there was one occasion where I did try to put my face to it, and I was hit with a lot of racism, and it upset me, because obviously this is a community that I've put my heart and soul into. Why are they racist? [laughs] Who is following me that's racist? So I stopped putting my face out there, and I did that for 10 years. I didn't gain... To answer your question, I didn't gain the confidence to put my work out there until maybe about four, five years later.
- SPSpeaker
Hmm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
You know, and that was from the encouragement of the writers that I was sharing. You know, we would have really deep conversations. I would post things on Twitter, and they would be like, "Share this. Share this." And it was not until I really saw your growth that I thought to myself, "Okay, The Good Quote is really huge."I could change my life at any moment, and then the anxiety came in. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
The imposter syndrome came in, and I just thought, "You know what? I'm best to be behind the scenes. Let me just work with great people. Let me meet great people. Let me use this as an opportunity to network, and I'll figure out myself later." You know, I, I spoke in the book about premonitions. I used to get a lot of premonitions as a kid. It's one of the reasons why my mother went back to church, 'cause she left the church after she gave birth to me. She was a part of a really strict church. You know, you couldn't wear trousers. You could not be pregnant if you were not married, so Mom left, you know? But I kept seeing things, and I kept getting really interesting dreams. And I remember from a young age, my mother would say to me, you know, "You have to get ready to... Like, education is the most important thing." And I said to her, "Not in my life. I'm gonna live my life when I'm 30." [laughs]
- 34:59 – 43:49
Do You Trust Your Intuition?
- SPSpeaker
but when I listen closely to that internal voice, that's when I make my best decisions. But I find for a lot of people, when you've ignored that voice for maybe 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, it's so quiet now.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
So two questions. The first is, how have you always trusted your inner voice? And two, if someone's lost connection with it, how do they get it to become louder again?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So my mother was born in a board house in Trinidad. Uh, it's a house that consists of board-like material on wooden stilts. Very basic, you know, two bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen. A lot of people in the house. So you had to stand up for yourself in that house. Even if it came to dinner time, the best meat is being taken by your great uncle or your cousin. You have to stand up for yourself. Then you take that person, bring them to England. It's very similar environment. A lot more damaging. You know, still have to stick up for yourself. My mother didn't stick up for herself there. So when it came to her raising me, like I said before, all of the mistakes that she made, all the things that she saw or witnessed growing up in her house in London with her family, she was not bringing that into our house. So my house was full of so many different affirmations. Every day was just, like, a particular prayer I had to say. Then it was followed by a list of affirmations that I would say to myself. From four, these were the things. "I am smart. I am beautiful. I can do anything I put my mind to," every day.And then that went from affirmations to my mother affirming my creativity. So, you know, when you, uh, you're a kid and you create images and your parents might put it on the fridge, or they might put it on the wall. My, my kitchen was my-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... gallery, right? So I was raised in an environment where it was just like anything that I want to do creatively, creatively, I have the freedom to do that. Communication was a huge thing with my mother and myself. Um, we barely watched TV, it was always books or just lying in bed and talking, and my mother would feed and entertain me through life stories of her own. And it's quite common in the West Indies to, to tell, tell stories, you know? And I learned a lot of the importance of standing up for yourself by watching my mom struggle to do that with her family. And I would see her face light up when she was telling me certain stories of where she did have the confidence to do that. And those were the things that encouraged me. Growing up, again, I used to have a lot of premonitions, so I was a bit nervous of what to express. And when I, you know, started to speak about them with my mother, she put me in touch with an elder who encouraged that.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Right? Um-
- SPSpeaker
That's cool
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... and that's how come she ended up going back to church, and that elder is mentioned in my book, a woman called Millie. Uh, I love her to pieces, and she enforced pride into me. Pride for the way I think, 'cause I think out of the box, [laughs] you know?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Um, pride for so many different things. So again, as I was getting older, I had a lot of elders around me, people who are not only older, but you expect someone who's 50 or 60 to know about themselves or know about the world. So when these people are pouring into me, it's boosting my confidence. And it just came to a point where my mother and Millie started to encourage me to listen to my intuition, because there were certain things that I just wouldn't do because something kept telling, s- something inside was telling me not to do it. And my mother was like, "Okay, well, it seems to be telling you the right thing, so honor it. And the best way to honor that is to just listen. You have to develop a relationship with it, right?" So your intuition's funny because it has to develop trust with you.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
You have to develop trust with it.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, well said.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And it will test you. Like, when you were dating and courting your wife, you guys subtly probably tested each other in certain things, or even just to see what this person's, like, deep reaction is to certain things. So, for example, my intuition would say, "Don't walk straight onto the station today. Take a left. Take this left, it's quicker." I would take the left and there's roadworks, or, or there's somewhere on the pavement that I can't, and I'd be like, "Why the hell did I listen to my..." And every time I went against it, even if it was wrong, I noticed the relationship was just-
- SPSpeaker
Yes
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... further apart.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that's such a great point.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So what I decided to do was respond differently. I noticed that my intuition was testing me and tricking me. So every time it was like, "Don't eat that, eat this," and it would be horrible. "Don't do..." You know, I'm just trying to give some random examples.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So what I started to do was say to myself, "I'm actually gonna have to depend on you for my life one day, and I'm listening to you. So I need you to start giving me some proper instructions." And it just developed after that, you know? And it gets down to the point, Jay, where I, it's almost like I have two, I listen to my intuition for everything. Should I do this today? Yeah, let me do that today. 'Cause that's what I've been told within to do. It's like I trust it with everything, and it's gotten to the point where it's almost right all the time. And I know that it's a good sense of energy because it tells me not to do things that could be harmful for me. So, don't interact with that person. Don't drink that drink. Don't... And, you know?
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And I feel like the more I encourage the relationship between me and my intuition, the stronger it got. And so now it's just something that I honor. It could be a gut feeling, don't go down there. Don't go to that place tonight. I don't go. Something happens. And when that happens, I just think to myself, wow, this is really powerful [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... you know? And it definitely got stronger with me through fasting. Fasting is something that, um, I love to do. I watched my mother do it a lot with the church. Um, I've watched a lot of Dr. Mindy's, [laughs] interviews and docu- and, and I've read her book. And, you know, the power behind fasting in itself is just, the negative voice in your head disappears three days after you start a water fast. So on your third day, the negative voice goes. I do water fasts all the time, right? I might not look like it because I love food, but at the same time, water fasting is something that I go to anytime I feel unbalanced. In order to redefine my inner voice, I do it through fasting. I strengthen my relationship with my intuition through fasting. It's almost much louder, like k- kind of what you explained when you were 14. These are practices that I do on a daily basis. I pray, I meditate, I write down the things that my subconscious tells me that I should be doing. Like, why don't you start a podcast doing this? I would write it down. An elder once told me, everything your body give, everything your intuition or your gut gives to you, your subconscious, you write it down, you acknowledge it, and you say, "I don't have the time to do that right now, but I'm gonna write that down. Thank you." Because imagine if, as your subconscious, I'm your subconscious, I keep giving you these great ideas and you keep ignoring me. Eventually, one day, I'm gonna stop communicating with you, and the day your subconscious stops communicating with you, it's over. I genuinely believe that's what creative blocks are. I believe that's what hinders us from-
- SPSpeaker
Wow. Yeah
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... doing so many things, you know? You have to find the time to develop a relationship within.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Your life improves drastically when you do. Life is like on 10 on a victor scale when you have full harmony between these things compared to not being aware of it. So for me, it's a everyday investment. It's a everyday, um, devotion. You know, even today, as I was saying, I was driving and I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm running late. Where am I gonna park?" And something inside of me was just like, "Relax, I got you."And there's a park right outside of this office [laughs] and that's it. And I kinda knew as I was p- as I was driving on the road, I kinda knew I didn't have to worry, and it happens all the time. And people see that as nonchalant, or you might have, like, a less urgent response to things, but living in the flow, you end up at your destination less stressful, you know.
- 43:49 – 45:20
Your Intuition is Your Best Guide
- SPSpeaker
And so we're the soul, and the super-soul is the all-knowing, the, you know-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... the all-powerful. And it's almost like when the conversation starts between the soul and the super-soul, the soul gets all of this inner wisdom and knowledge, and now is able to make decisions. And I, I can resonate with so much of what you're saying, but the thing that I loved that I think you put so well was this idea of sometimes your intuition is testing whether it can trust you.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And it may even misguide you in little, little ways, not huge ways. And most people give up there.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
They go, "I listened and it was just stupid. I'm not listening again." And that's exactly what you need to break through, because that little test, that l- mini understanding of creating a collaboration, like you said, happens in friendship, happens in business, happens in romantic relationships, you're just checking.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
You're just checking, are we on the same page?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Are we with each other? Because I'm gonna say something crazy one day, and it's like, are you gonna hear it? And I can relate to so much of that, because I, I feel the same way as you. I'm very clear energetically when I meet someone, are we gonna vibe? Are we gonna connect?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Should we spend time there? Should we not? And it's so easy to think, "Oh, I'm just mad. I should avoid that." And to have an elder-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
That's where my intuition comes in the strongest.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
It's like when I was a kid, I used to see auras, and I used to feel people before they spoke. And now, with my intuition, my relationship with my intuition, I ... It's almost like it protects me.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So just off the bat,
- 45:20 – 50:52
How Do You Reconnect with Your Intuition?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I know, don't say too much to this person, you know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Or this person needs a little bit more of a listening ear. Don't talk about yourself as much. These are the things that I would feel inside.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
You know? Yeah, I, I, I, I think it's amazing.
- SPSpeaker
So if someone's lost touch with it, like, if someone's listening right now and they're like, "Jay and Meggan, thanks a lot." Like, [laughs] you know, "I wish I listened to it at 14."
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
"Or 4." And they're thinking, "I'm just so disc- I never hear that at all. Like, I don't, I don't feel anything. I just don't know what to do." And I ... Because I also find that we, we outsource it, right? Like, I have so many friends who will have, like, 30 people on a chat.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And they'll be like, "What do I do in this situation?" And then they'll go on their private stories on Instagram and be like, "Guys, what do I do in this situation?"
- MRMeggan Roxanne
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
It's like we're constantly outsourcing advice.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
So we don't find it weird to go to, like, 10, 20, 30 people who know us, but they don't know us that well. But we find it scary to sit in silence. And you talk about the power of solitude in the book-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... in the second section, and this ability to spend time with ourselves, but we don't usually go there. So if someone's struggling and saying, "Yeah, Jay, I'm, I'm that person. I'm, I'm the one texting all my mates. I'm al- constantly asking my family to make decisions for me, constantly asking everyone's opinion, but it never works."
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
"How do I start doing this?" How, how would you guide them?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
The first thing I would say is to start removing your distractions. Start removing the distractions. Because the more we're distracted, obviously the, the less we are going in, within. And for me, if I'm constantly distracted with TV, friends, work, when do I actually get to spend time with myself? So the best way that I spend time with myself is every morning before my da- before my day starts, as soon as the sun rises, I go for a walk in my local park and ... Or I might just go for a walk, [laughs] just walk straight for an hour. No headphones, no f- well, I do carry my phone for safety, but no headphones, nothing. And any thought that comes into my head, I write down.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Any thought that comes into my head, I write down. It could be, "Ah, this is, this is shit, isn't it?" Like [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Or, or, "Wah, this is so long. Why am I going for this walk this morning?" I write that down, and then I ask it why. And I get used to, to, to communicating with myself. Everybody, in my opinion, has something internal that communicates with them. I only re- recently realized that not everybody has an internal dialogue.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Which I found so strange, 'cause I definitely do. But there is something within our gut that is there, and it's worth seeking, 'cause it could potentially be your best friend. So as I was saying, communicate with yourself. Start asking yourself the same questions that you would ask somebody else. If you find that the voice in your head is, or your intuition is negative, you know, take some time to really, why do I think like that?
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
There's been so many times I've gone for walks. I'm just like, "Today's the day I'm gonna put myself out there. Today's the day I'm gonna put myself out there. I'm gonna post this video." And then something will be like, "No, we're not." [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And I'll be like, "Okay, but why?" And it will go silent. And I might walk for a little bit more, and I'll be like, "No, why am I not doing that?" And it'll be silent. And I'll be like, "Okay, well, why do I think I'm not doing that? It's because ..." And before you know it, I'm coming up with my own answers.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- 50:52 – 53:10
How Meditation Helps Calm Down Your Day
- MRMeggan Roxanne
to oneself, and you've really gotta believe that you're worth it. It starts from there. It starts from your intention. What are you intentionally trying to receive from your inner self as to why you want to have these conversations? And then you will build upon that.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, so true. Most of us, I feel like, only having a conversation with fear.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
We're not really having a conversation with any other part of ourselves, so-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Or, or anxiety, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... So, exactly. So our inner voice, we think our inner voice is fear or anxiety.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
But what we're referring to is something deeper than that, and something so much more you than that.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And that's why I think we're scared of having that time out, that internal dialogue, the solitude, because all we hear in that time is fear and anxiety.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And like you said with the fasting, it's the same is true for fear and anxiety and meditation. I remember the first time I sat down to meditate for two hours, my whole body was rejecting it, and there was just fear and anxiety. Am I doing this right? This is so uncomfortable. I hate this. This is the worst. And then after you get through that first two hours, four hours, six hours, eight hours, it starts to go quieter just naturally.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And you go, "Oh, now there's space to actually listen." And, and I think so many of us give up just before that.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
So, so I love that you used fasting as an example and-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I definitely-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... struggle with meditation. That's why I find a lot more power in fasting.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I find it quicker and more intense. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I, I can't switch off my thoughts with meditation. Well, I couldn't until I had to practice, and it did exactly what you just said. I had to get through those loud moments and just tell my, tell my brain, tell myself, "We're not moving-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... until everyone is quiet." [laughs] You know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And then, again, what is it that I'm saying? Write it down or store it. But meditation I find, it was more of a physical experience. I don't know if you ever feel, like, a, a buzzing feeling-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, for sure. For sure
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... on your c- the circumference of your body. That to me is a completely different level. I'm very basic in meditation. I've really just started to pick it up properly, and I do about 10 to 15 minutes a day in the morning, and it sets my day. Because any fears I have for that day, I'm able to just calmly go through it. Breathing helps so much. You know, when you're having anxiety and your thoughts are racing and you just
- 53:10 – 1:15:03
Dealing with Grief, Depression, & Losing a Loved One
- MRMeggan Roxanne
deep breathe for about six or seven times, and you can actually feel the pressure coming down. Yeah, I think breathwork, meditation, fasting, these are all really great practices.
- SPSpeaker
Great tools.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And you talk about them in the book as well.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Some of your tools. Talking about fears, Meggan, I wanted to, to end on this because I wanted to talk about it with you, this idea of we've, we learn about how much you love your mom in the book. Even today in this conversation, you learn about what a pivotal role she's played, like introducing you to elders, like the affirmations, giving you the gift of learning forgiveness at a time in your life, like so many things. But walk us through the healing of that process. Like, what are all the things that are going on inside when you're in the process of losing the person you love most in the world?
- MRMeggan Roxanne
It wasn't just my mother I lost. So I lost my mother in 2021, in March. Um, I started to lose people around August 2020. Well, I lost 16 people to COVID, right? I lost 16 people to COVID, and I lost three friends, one to cocaine, one to murder, and one to illness. I lost both my parents. My mother passed in March, my dad passed in August, and then I lost an uncle later on that year. So that all happened in the space of 2020 to 2021. So it wasn't just losing my mom, um, never met my dad, never knew my dad, not interested. It was-Actually losing my entire community. All my elders went. Millie's actually the only elder I have left, and it was very important for me to get her name in print and share her story, as well as my mom. The journey of my mother's transition started in July 2020 when she got diagnosed with stage four cancer. And at that moment, Jay, I was in the position of putting my face in my hands, [laughs] like actually doing it. Sat down with my business partner like, "This is what we're doing. I'm ready." You know? And that happened, and I thought, "Oh, my gosh, this is happening again. This happened with Tumblr, now it's... Okay, well, maybe it's not time." You know? So I just saw that as a huge step back for me to take because this is more important, and this is where my life is heading towards. I then had to become a carer, and there were many times I had to parent my mom. Immediately as she got diagnosed, I then had to put my feelings aside and comfort her, and then become very optimistic for our journey moving forward, and it was heartbreaking because all while that was happening, I was watching, you know, the energy deplete from somebody who's being told that in a couple of years' time they might n- they might not be here. Then I'm thinking, "Okay, wow, in a couple... My mom's gonna die when I'm thir- in my 30s?" I thought she was... I thought I had a pact with God that Mommy's not going until she's 100. [laughs] You know? Like, what are we doing? What are we talking about? Okay, so stage four cancer. These, these are all the things that was in my head. Okay, let me research them, and I'm seeing there's not many. [laughs] There's, there's... It's terminal, you know, and that's literally what the doctor told my mother, so it was, it was really hard. I knew that I didn't have time to be depressed, you know, 'cause depression is the first thing that comes to me when emotions are too heavy. I just, I stop. I pause. I bed rot. And, you know, I didn't have time for that because I have to go back to caring now. Every night, I would cry myself to sleep, and then I would watch, um, some people on TikTok who talk about grief. Uh, there's a lady who talks about working in a hospice, and I just realized, okay, I'm being called to help my mother transition, so I actually need to put myself second, and I did the entire time. It's hard operating with a broken heart. It's hard watching the person that you love crumble and lose their power, eventually losing their life. You lose yourself. The moment my mother took her last breath, I also took my last breath, and I felt... You see that same feeling that I spoke about in the beginning of the book with the heartbreak? I felt something leave me. T- I felt so cold and hollow [laughs] is the best way I can... Everything within me that was fun and brought light and the things that everybody loved, it went. My entire essence left with my mother. It's only till I got older, along the last couple of years, I've realized, actually, I just evolved, and the best inheritance I received was my mother's love and her, and her essence. But that feeling was awful. I didn't want to be here, went through so many different things, so many different emotions. You know, my mother got ill just as COVID started to happen, and it got really cold, and she was like, "I want to go home." And home for us is Trinidad. But Trinidad's borders were closed, so I ended up going to Saint Lucia, and it was just supposed to be a quick break, and maybe a month or so, you know. And it was crazy 'cause COVID out there was so different to the UK. Like, you could still go to the beach. [laughs] You could still do things. So my mom was... She was really happy, you know. It's hot. You c- It's sunshine. You can eat the best foods, you know. It was... We had her on a really holistic whole foods diet, and all of the stuff came from Saint Lucia, so it was just literally eating from the ground. And at one stage, I thought she was getting better, and then her health just plummeted, and next thing you know, I'm in Saint Lucia for six months, and my mother passes away. And I then had to... Okay, she wants to be buried in Trinidad. What do I do now? So my grandfather sent me 10,000 pounds, and all the planes were stationary. All the airports were closed. I had to spend about two weeks begging the ministry in Trinidad to let me in, and when I was able to send them all of my mom's documentations, she was a national. They brought her home, and they were... At one stage, they were like, "We can't bring you into the country 'cause you're not a national."
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And I was just like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna go on The Good Quote [laughs] and talk about this." And literally, the next day, I woke up to access into Trinidad, put my mother on this p- private plane that my grandfather paid for, got over to Trinidad, had to quarantine, didn't bury her until a month later. Family switched up on me. By myself in a foreign country. Trinidad is not an easy place to be on the best of days. I love Trinidad. I love it. I was raised to love Trinidad. It's part of m- It's me, you know. Been going to Trinidad since I was seven years old, so I kinda know the area. No. When you're there by yourself, [laughs] no family, no money, your mother's in a morgue, you know, I had a breakdown. I completely broke down to the point where I think I landed in Saint Lucia maybe 110 kg, 'cause I was... When I'm stressed, as you can see, just finished writing the book, but when I'm stressed, I put on a lot of weight. I left and landed in Trinidad 74 kg. I lost so much weight due to stress. It depleted me completely, but I, I did it all with honor because that was my best friend. She was scared, and I was scared, and-I needed to ensure that she had everything that she needed because at one stage, that's what she did for me. You know, I slept in the hospital the entire time. I actually got all the nurses to sign off their responsibilities. I washed my mom, I fed her, I creamed her, I helped her move, I changed her bed. I did everything because for me, it was the last time I was ever gonna be able to do it, so I had all this energy to do it. And honor is such a big thing for me and so is loyalty, and because of my mother's story and the amount of sacrifices she made for me, it was important for me to reciprocate in the only way that I knew how at the time, which was to ensure that she had a peaceful transition, and it was so hard. You know, we, I slept in the same bed as my mom for that entire time, for a year and a half. I've got so many recordings of her. We have our own podcast that I can go to. There's certain things I asked her, like, "When I get married and I want to run away, [laughs] you know, what advice would you give me?" And sh- and she gave me all these advices. "When I become a mother, what, what advice would you give me?" And we had these really beautiful-
- SPSpeaker
Wow
- MRMeggan Roxanne
... conversations. I've got all of it recorded. She even recorded me a birthday message so that every year for my birthday I wake up and I play it, 'cause it's just significant for any year. It's not specific, you know? And so we prepared, and we did as much as we could, and that's why I don't have any regrets with losing my mother. Or, well, I don't have any regrets of how it all panned out, but I lost myself completely, and I think, to be honest with you, I really only got it back recently, and I got it back through the process of writing this book, 'cause it gave me something to do. I got really low. Um, I, I got a really strong dependency on marijuana. Um, I became very suicidal. I made various attempts. I was by myself for a long time. In Trinidad, I started off in the hood, and I met some really great people in some of the p- areas where, you know, rumors and the government and just culture would tell you that you shouldn't be. I met some of the kindest people there, and these people elevated me enough to believe, or to generate self-belief, that I'm Meggan, I built something really great, I have a great story to tell, and I can actually still try again. And I started off in the hood in Trinidad and ended up in one of the best places, in a, in a, in a, in a villa that cost me four and a half grand a month because I started to do podcasts. I started to start again, you know. I was filming people, I was interviewing people, I was traveling the island. I was trying to find who Meggan was without Janet, without my mom, and I'm still trying to find that. It's really hard. It's really hard. She wasn't just my mother. She was my best friend, my sister, my homie, you know, the person I would talk to about everything. That's gone. [laughs] And then not only that, but all of the people that raised her, they're gone too. I lost my great aunt, you know, I lost great uncles. I lost cousins. I lost a lot of people, and all I really have now is just their memory, WhatsApp conversations, voice notes, and their essence, and that is what I use now to drive me. You know, there were times... I, I, I still live in my mother's house. When I took her to Saint Lucia, stayed in Trinidad for a year. When I got back, I had an apartment in Docklands, a penthouse, and I remember my mom came to see it with me and she was like, "I can't believe this is you." [laughs] 'Cause she started off in a board house, her daughter's 24 floors up, you know, own busine- It, it was starting to happen for me, you know? Now I'm back at home, uh, back in Watford, you know, in my mom's place, and it's humbling. It's, it's hard. Um, the memories, when people say, "Oh, I have to leave this environment, there's too many memories," I never understood what that meant. It means that when you're in bed and somebody's walking in your hallway, you get a quick, "Oh, Mum, that's M-", no, it's not, it's just your friend. Or, or if, like, I don't know, you're cooking and you sit in the living room while your food's cooking and you can smell the food and it reminds you of when your mom used to cook on Sundays. There's memories everywhere. So my main intention now is to try and do as much work as I can to leave. But the entire journey of losing your parents up until now, you lose yourself. You have to rebuild yourself. You have to parent yourself. You have to love yourself. You have to give yourself a reason as to why you're being ali- why you're here, why you're, why, why you're going to even work towards anything. Releasing this book was the hardest thing I've ever had to do since my mom passed away, because it was one of my biggest accomplishments and my cheerleader wasn't there. So you learn how to be your own cheerleader. It's a complete reset, and it has been the worst journey that I've ever [laughs] encountered, but also the best. I met the love of my life. I've m- I've been able to filter through my circles, so with the boundaries that I put in place, there were people I was able to get rid of ASAP because it wasn't good for me. Like, everything that I'm doing now is for the benefit and the safety of myself, and I would've never gotten to this point if none of this stuff happened, you know? So I'm just learning that my mother was just a little girl who tried her best, and she left behind some really great lessons that I'm taking forth with me now. I look exactly like her, so it's really hard not to, you know, have that energy where I'm, I'm still, somebody still... I'm still responsible for how it is I portray myself. I'm still somebody's responsibility. I still belong to somebody. So these are all the things that, you know, I had to learn along the way. It is a journey that I don't think everybody is prepared for. I don't think there's any way you can prepare to lose your parents. I don't think three weeks is enough time for you, for, for, for work to give you time off for you to mourn, and I don't think people understand how much it actually takes. You lose everything. You lose everything. I've never lost a sibling, and I don't have a child yet, so I wouldn't know what it's like to lose a child. I hope I never do. But I don't think there's anything as painful as losing your mother.If I'm being honest, if you don't know your left to your right, you don't, you don't know. You have to start all over again, and then you have to parent yourself. So when you're having a bad day, you gotta [laughs] figure out how to... You gotta figure out how to calm yourself down, how to encourage yourself, how to celebrate yourself. These are all things I'm learning how to do by myself. Never had to do that. 32 years, I never had to do that. Last two years, that's what I'm now having to do in order to give me some sort of peace and happiness. I don't think anything prepares you to lose a parent, and this is why I talk about it so much because I keep saying to people, "If you've got good relationships with your pa- with your family, start recording content. If your parent is about to pass away because they're dying from a disease, record content," because there are random days where I just wanna hear my mom's voice, and I can have a list of videos, and I could hear her laugh and joke about things, and it's almost like she's still here. If you are listening to this and you are dealing with a parent who is passing away, preserve as much of the memories you can because that's the only thing that keeps you going. If I didn't have that, Jay, I don't know. I wouldn't be here, that's for damn sure. So it's the most life-changing, transformational experience you would ever have, and it really does show you who you are, and your life can either become something great, or you can fall and never get back up again. And I've been straddling both, you know? And the depression that hits after you lose your parent, there's, there's, there's that, there's an aimless, hollow feeling in your entire life, and it doesn't matter what or who comes into it. Again, with the people-pleasing, it doesn't matter. You're not going to take that from me. I have to do something with it. And my therapist always said, you know, "The relationship that you had with your mother would make it 10 times harder to deal with the grief because you were very close." And I loved that. I loved the fact that I was loved, and I loved something so powerful enough that without it, my life is shit, [laughs] you know? And I love the fact that with the essence of that love, I'm reminded as to why I need to make a better life for myself. I think that is the best lesson I've gotten out all of this. My mother would be telling everybody, even down to the man at the news agents, that I have a book, you know?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So it's for me to start doing that now.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- MRMeggan Roxanne
You know? [laughs] I used to see her leave the house all the time. Anytime she got change from a 10 pound note or a five pound note, she'd put it in, like, her pocket, and anytime there was someone who needed it, she'll give it to them.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
There were so many people within our community in Watford that knew my mother. I get discount at so many different stores because [laughs] of her up to this day. So I wanna be that person now. I'm really trying to, like, get rid of this sadness so I can spread more light because my plan now with The Good Quote is, like, 10 times more intentional now. Because at first it was something that I needed. I needed the community. But now it's something that I want for others to be able to have that same feeling of, like, security that I had when I was building it. Because, you know, when you're losing a parent, every time I speak about my mother online, I get a wave of DMs from people telling me, like, "This speaks to me. This is how I felt." And Jay, it's something that almost everybody is starting to experience because Millennials, we're getting old. Our parents are getting old, and there just needs to be a lot more transparency and openness around the topic of death and grieving. It's not taboo. It's every day. We deal with it. Um, but it's, it's, it's hell on earth, and I'm trying to do everything I can in my power to not make it that way. But some days take over, and when they do, I give myself the grace to, like, just... If I'm having a bad day when it comes to grief, I'll, I'll let everyone around me know, and then I'll just switch off because I can't fu- I can't function.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And then there are other days where I'm just like, "Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I'm happy to be alive." It's like this, but it's not as heavy as it was three years ago.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
I have a great therapist, a man called Michael Adams. Um, he is somebody who's been working with me for the last two and a half years now, and I had intense therapy two hours twice a week, and now I only do one hour a week. We've gone through it all. I've got so many notes that I'm writing for my next book [laughs] when it comes to grief, but I can't stress how hard it is to lose your mother. If you have a loving relationship, it's going to be 10 times harder. If you're distant, you most likely might have a lot of regret. I don't have any regret. I don't have any. When my mother passed away, I knew exactly what was happening. She was transitioning. You know, there's a whole, a whole story about that in itself that we'll probably have to talk about [laughs] another time, but you see the glory of God when somebody's passing away. You see the impact of the different realms, you know, that we're in. We're in this realm right now, but there's a spiritual realm. There's all types of different realms that open up when somebody is transitioning. It is probably one of the most beautiful journeys you would ever see, and you start to think to yourself, when we became babies, what were they doing on the other side? Were they, were they giving us some sort of celebrationary leaving do for us to come to earth? Because when you're t- when you're transitioning, it's important that people celebrate rather than mourn.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
So I learnt that as well. You know, I, I s- I mourned three days after my mother passed away because I knew the fragility of her spirit. She's just become a spirit, so she's probably gonna be just as scared as me. I don't need her to come back and see me screaming and crying down the place. I need her to see that I'm functioning fine. After three days, some people believe that the spirit then passes on, and that's when you can do all of your mourning, and that's what I did. And I just started to listen to the elders and start to incorporate more traditional practices, you know, that come from the West Indies or w- in Trinidad, or things that I've been raised to believe, and that's kinda what's been helping me that, during that time. But when you do lose a parent, you need community more than anything.'Cause you're not even gonna be able to make yourself a drink. You're not gonna eat. [laughs] You're not. You're not gonna bathe. You're not gonna do anything. You're just gonna be very stuck.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
And so it's really important that we invest wholeheartedly into the relationships that we have, because those are the only things that are gonna sustain you when you go through the hardest times of your life.
- SPSpeaker
For sure. Meggan, thank you for being so vulnerable, so open. Thank you for pouring your heart into this book. Uh, I'm hoping that everyone who's been listening and watching is as moved as I am, and genuinely, if you pick up a copy of How to Stop Breaking Your Heart, I feel that you'll be able to walk through life with grace. You'll be able to deal with the discomfort that comes along your way, and you'll be able to find your way even when it feels completely foggy, fuzzy, and uncertain about your future. Uh, I wanna give a big thank- thanks to Meggan for putting herself out there, for having the courage and the, the bravery for taking that step. I know how hard that was for you. Uh, and I, and I really believe that you doing that is gonna help so many people, so thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story today.
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Yeah, thank you.
- SPSpeaker
Parts of your story, and I want everyone to read the book to find the rest of it and how it all connects. Uh-
- MRMeggan Roxanne
Thank you so much
- SPSpeaker
... thank you, Meggan. Thank you so much.
Episode duration: 1:15:03
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode GHLIdBJvGsI
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome