Scooter Braun ON: Self-Forgiveness & Learning to Love Yourself Unconditionally

Scooter Braun 0:00 What happened to me in my life is statistically impossible. So someone upstairs was looking out, yet I wasn't showing that respect of saying, "I trust that you love me. I trust that everything's gonna be okay." Giving that trust to the universe, I've seen amazing, miraculous things start to happen in my life. [upbeat music] You and your wife have the most amazing eyes, so having to stare directly at you and do this podcast, I feel like I'm slowly falling in love. So there you go.

Jay Shetty 0:32 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 0:32 So now we, now we can do this, is I have to stare into those pools.

Jay Shetty 0:35 So, so this is why you don't look at me often.

Scooter Braun 0:37 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 0:37 This is why. I was like, I was like, "Scooter doesn't give me eye contact."

Scooter Braun 0:39 You know, it's funny Prince is right there, 'cause there's that famous joke of like, "Never look Prince in the eyes, you'll fall in love." This is what you learn at the Jay Shetty podcast.

Jay Shetty 0:46 [laughs] I love it, man, and you look different since the last time I saw you, but-

Scooter Braun 0:49 Yeah, shaved

Jay Shetty 0:50 ... shaved and... You look well though. You look great, man.

Scooter Braun 0:53 Thanks, man.

Jay Shetty 0:53 And, and I wanted, I wanted to tell people because I, I think when people see people connecting, they don't realize sometimes how organically people meet, and I wanna share that story if that's okay.

Scooter Braun 1:05 Great. Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 1:05 And you can, you can fill in the details.

Scooter Braun 1:07 Let's do it.

Jay Shetty 1:07 Uh, but it was a couple of years ago. We were at our mutual friend Justin Baldoni's movie premiere.

Scooter Braun 1:12 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:13 He had the movie coming out, Five Feet Apart.

Scooter Braun 1:15 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:16 And I went to the movie premiere. I was running late. I didn't think I was gonna make it. I was like, "Oh gosh, I don't wanna let Justin down. I really wanna be there for him." And then I'm walking in, and then I see you walking in, and I knew who you were based on all the incredible work you've been doing for two decades now or more, and I-

Scooter Braun 1:36 And I, and I knew you. I was, I was-

Jay Shetty 1:38 And, and I didn't know that

Scooter Braun 1:39 ... I was a fan of what you were putting out there, and I was, uh... and the positivity. So when I saw you, I got just as, just as excited.

Jay Shetty 1:46 [laughs] So I got excited, and I was in this space where I was like, "I have to go and tell him," because if someone's impacted your life or you love the artists they work with, the, the work that they do, today we're gonna discuss all the philanthropy work you're doing. When you're into someone, I feel like it's so important to not go and ask for a picture, but to go and express how you feel about them. And so I came up to you and I was like, "Scooter, I'm a big fan of all the work you're doing. Congratulations." And then when you said it back to me, and, and I remember the words you said, they were so powerful, and it just showed me how present you were. And, and I think maybe, you know, people don't know this about you because not everyone gets to bump into you, but you were like... I, I said, "The work you're doing is really important. Thank you for doing it." And you s- you said, "You're doing the most important work." And, and you-

Scooter Braun 2:30 Well, I, I meant it.

Jay Shetty 2:31 Yeah. And it was... it really touched my heart. I was so, you know, I was so humbled and honored to hear that from you.

Scooter Braun 2:37 And then we, we were like, "Well, let's get together." And I think you kinda looked at me when I said it as like, "Okay, yeah."

Jay Shetty 2:42 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 2:43 "We're not really gonna get together."

Jay Shetty 2:44 Definitely.

Scooter Braun 2:45 And we ended up going for lunch. Our, you know, wives met.

Jay Shetty 2:48 The next day.

Scooter Braun 2:48 Yeah, our wives met, and, um, we became friends and, you know, and then, uh, you joined us on a trip and, you know, it's, uh, I just am so happy to see your message getting louder and louder and bigger and bigger because I think, uh, you're, you're giving people a lot of the things they need to hear and a lot of positivity and allowing them to slow down and take a breath.

Jay Shetty 3:10 Yeah. Thank you, man, and I've always felt that support from you, and we've had some amazing trips and-

Scooter Braun 3:15 And some good walks

Jay Shetty 3:15 ... and some good walks as well, some really important walks at meaningful times in my life. And, um-

Scooter Braun 3:21 Mutual

Jay Shetty 3:21 ... you've always been so helpful, mentoring, supportive as well, and so

Jay Shetty 3:25 thank you. But today I think, you know, the fascinating thing for me is that you have these incredible artists that you founded. You then have the man behind the people, the work, the person. But then even far removed from that, you have the work that the man is doing behind the scenes. And so it's almost like you're twice removed. The, the real you, the, the behind the scenes version of you is almost so distant from what people experience on the front lines. That's what I wanna discover today and share today-

Scooter Braun 3:57 Yeah

Jay Shetty 3:57 ... 'cause that's what I feel I got a glimpse of.

Scooter Braun 3:59 Uh, yeah, I think you did. And, um, I think it's so funny that we're doing this 'cause we talked about doing this pre-COVID.

Jay Shetty 4:05 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 4:06 And then COVID hit, and a lot of things happened. A lot of things changed. Um, and, you know, for me, COVID was an opportunity to slow down and do some real self-reflection, um, and self-work, which I think we all should be doing at all times. You know, I, I really came to terms with the fact that as long as I'm breathing, I'm a student. Um, and it's funny that you start there because obviously my nickname is Scooter and my, my given name was Scott, and I can tell you, I don't remember ever liking the name Scott until now. You know, I, I didn't realize until I've did the work I've done really over the last six months, um, that I kind of left Scott behind in a way and built something that I thought was powerful enough to be in the world, something that I thought deserved to be loved by the world. And, um, I didn't realize subconsciously how much I had left that inner child behind. Um, and my friends didn't realize it, and I was having fun, everything else, but I was always kind of trying to build something new because of... You know, you and I spoke about this. Um, one of the quotes that I love, someone said, uh, "Many times we don't know our trauma because it was never ours."

Jay Shetty 5:24 Mm.

Scooter Braun 5:25 And, you know, my grandparents were Holocaust survivors, and my parents went through what they went through, and I feel like I kind of inherited some of that, where I always felt like, "When is it gonna n- get taken away? When are they gonna show up and take it away from me?" So I was always building for something else, um, to protect me and my family, not realizing that everything that I ever needed was right here in the present. And, uh, doing this work, I went back and got Scott, and I think you saw a glimpse of that. Certain friends of mine saw a glimpse of that, and I feel like coming out of COVID, I'm putting that more on the forefront.

Jay Shetty 5:59 Yeah. I love hearing that. Yeah, I started there just because I think it's, it's the root of today's conversation, you know? Us sitting down here today is, is two friends wanting to go deep-

Scooter Braun 6:09 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 6:09 ... in a conversation we would have offline but online, and hearing you say that is so freeing, I'm sure, for everyone who's listening and watching for themselves too. Because I think all of us are holding onto a trauma that's not ours or, or something that we experienced. Let's, let's focus

Jay Shetty 6:25 on that. Let's go back then to what were you like as a kid? Because I'm intrigued to know. I didn't know you then. What were you like? Like, were you always confident? Was there an insecurity? What is it that you were working through as a kid, or at least in hindsight?

Scooter Braun 6:40 You know, look, I, out of respect for people that I love, there's certain things I'm not g- not gonna go into, only because I realize now that we all see the world through our lens.

Jay Shetty 6:50 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 6:51 And when you really start to do the work, you realize that things that happened to you a lot of times were happening to you because it's all that people knew.

Jay Shetty 7:00 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 7:00 You know? And that it's not about resenting anyone or being angry. It's actually about loving more and then changing the pattern, you know, because you're choosing that for yourself. Um, so what I can tell you is I was a very sensitive, loving kid, and loved everybody, loved having fun, loved shining my light out there, but was super sensitive. Um, and I think as I grew up, I was, you know, I was raised for a tough world, and I was raised by very loving people, but there was a lot of trauma, you know, that, you know, like I said, the Holocaust, like, things happened. Um, and when people go through that, they're trying to protect their next generation. They're trying to protect their loved ones, so they're giving them that, what you need to look out for. And I'm grateful for that in many ways because there's great things that come with that, but also, as a child, you don't really have that rational thought until you're, like, six or eight years old.

Jay Shetty 7:59 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 7:59 So you're interpreting things the way you are, and you don't realize you're setting these patterns. Um, and, and I'm not embarrassed to say this. You know, one of the things I did during COVID... In fact, I'm, I'm not em- the opposite of embarrassed. I'm grateful to these people. I, I, uh, I canceled four times on something called the Hoffman Process.

Jay Shetty 8:16 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 8:17 And I finally went in October, um, 'cause I, you know, friends were pushing me and saying, "This is gonna be great for you," and I was like, "What do I need this for?" Like, I... And I finally went, and it was the greatest gift I ever gave myself, and it was the first time in 20 years that I went no phone, no email, no TV. I was completely ingrained in this process. And funny enough, which is why you and I haven't connected, when I got out, everyone was like, "Okay, he's gonna turn his phone back on," and I actually got a burner phone and didn't turn my actual phone back on until the end of the year.

Jay Shetty 8:50 Wow.

Scooter Braun 8:50 Um, until 2021 really. And I, you know, my team stepped up for me. I was kind of going through a couple different people and, you know, giving the suggestions and helping. And, um, the artists that I work with were incredibly respectful of it and appreciative because, you know, I'd been there for them, and I remember them looking at me like, "Now it's time for us to be here for you and let you go through what, you know, you're learning or whatever." And, um, and I, I've really had a shift in my life, and, uh, I couldn't be more grateful because you go through, and things are going good. You're seeing other people and their trauma. You're seeing other people with whatever they're going through, and you don't wanna look at yourself 'cause you're like, "Well, my life's so good. I, I have nothing to complain about. I don't, I don't need to do this work because who am I to even say I need help, you know, when people are really going through problems? I should just focus on the good things in my life."

Jay Shetty 9:44 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 9:44 And what I realized is we all deserve the right to slow down and say, "Why am I hurting? What am I going through? What work can I do?"

Jay Shetty 9:54 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 9:54 And, um, I'm grateful that a lot of people that love me pushed me to do that.

Jay Shetty 9:59 That's amazing, man. I'm so... When you told me you did that recently when we were talking, I was so happy. And the other conversation we had that was attached to that, it actually brought me so much joy because I feel like when someone in your life that you care for actually invests in themselves and now is saying no to certain opportunities or delaying events in their life or priorities in their life, like huge priorities. I mean, your artists have huge, like, not huge, it's not e- astronomical careers with constant releases, with constant work. And the fact that you took that time, they're getting to see what you're prioritizing. And what I find so special about that is you had to... It's amazing to think about this, but you had to feel you were worthy of that time, that you had to feel like you deserved it-

Scooter Braun 10:49 Yeah

Jay Shetty 10:49 ... and that you couldn't just neglect it because, yes, you do have a blessed, fortunate life, which you're grateful for.

Scooter Braun 10:54 Very.

Jay Shetty 10:55 Tell us about that feeling of feeling worthy because I feel like that's such a-

Scooter Braun 11:01 Feeling like you're enough, to be honest with you. I think, um, you know, one of the things I learned there is these, we have these core shame lies, you know, that we tell ourselves that affect us and create our fear and create our transference with other people, and it's not the root of things. I mean, I, I got a new tattoo actually when I got out. It says, "Love more," on my chest, uh, 'cause that's the number one lesson I learned. That's how you need to respond to really most things.

Jay Shetty 11:24 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 11:24 And I'm working on that every single day with everything. Whenever I feel resistance, I realize, oh my God, this isn't... There's a lesson for me here.

Jay Shetty 11:30 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 11:31 Um, o- one of the things I had to realize is that I'm, I'm good enough because there's this weird thing that, like, you kind of go through life wondering, are you good enough? And all these things are happening for you, and you're wondering, do I really deserve this? Am I good enough? The other th- thing I realized was none of us truly love ourselves unconditionally, and then how are we supposed to love other people unconditionally? To me, the way God loves us is unconditional.

Jay Shetty 11:56 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 11:56 And one of the things I really had to go through and th- you know, when I'm reminding myself every day in my daily meditations now is that, one, you're good enough, two, you're lovable, two, everyone else deserves love, and then the biggest thing I'm, I'm realizing is that I need to trust. You know, trust in the unknown because you go out there, and you go, "I gotta make this happen." You know, "I'm, I'ma sleep when I'm dead." Like, all these different things. And the truth is what happened to me in my life is statistically impossible So someone upstairs was looking out, and they've given me a life with every single sign that God loves me and is looking out for me, yet I wasn't showing that respect of saying, "I trust that you love me. I trust that everything's gonna be okay." And giving that trust to the universe, I've seen amazing, miraculous things start to happen in my life. Um, and I've, I can tell you, uh, it's almost like I'm prospering better than ever before because of that. And the challenges have been getting harder and harder and continuing, but it's almost like these tools now are allowing me for the waves to hit me, and I'm swimming through them, and I'm understanding with everything there's something else to be learned.

Jay Shetty 13:08 Yeah. See, when, when I'm hearing you say it, you can tell that it's been so realized because a lot of these things, we hear them in daily talk. Like, "Oh yeah, you should learn from everything in life, and every, every challenge has a lesson and an opportunity." But when you hear someone say it and they're living it, it, it just, it sounds different, and it hits different. And the biggest thing you said which really resonated with me just now is the idea of the love more, the tattoo you got. I read this incredible statement from a writer called Russell Barkley. He's no longer with us, but the statement he said, like, literally this is like it's changed how I view every situation, and it, and it correlates so similarly to the experience you had. So Russell Barkley said, uh, "People who need the most love often ask for it in the most unloving ways."

Scooter Braun 13:58 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:59 And literally every day when I'm living my life, I see people ask me for love sometimes in the most unloving ways, and I think we've all experienced that-

Scooter Braun 14:09 Big time

Jay Shetty 14:09 ... where someone's criticizing you, but really they just want love. Where someone's, uh, trying to get something from you or reaching out to you, but they want love. Like, everyone's ultimately seeking love, but they are seeking it through validation or attention or recognition.

Scooter Braun 14:23 Well, look, I, and I think we learn that as a kid. I mean, I, I, I told my dad, you know, recently that, "You loved me so unconditionally that I see through the lies of fear."

Jay Shetty 14:35 Mm.

Scooter Braun 14:35 You know, because how... You know, we- we're giving our kids, in a weird way sometimes, transactional love-

Jay Shetty 14:41 Mm-hmm

Scooter Braun 14:41 ... because we're trying to teach them lessons, and then you go through life, and I never thought I was a transactional person 'cause I'm not like that with money.

Jay Shetty 14:48 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 14:49 But I realized I was like that weirdly with love, you know? And, and I was like that with respect. "Oh, I'm not gonna res- you know, you gotta respect me," or, "Respect is earned." Well, actually, I can give respect without receiving it.

Jay Shetty 15:01 Yes.

Scooter Braun 15:01 You know, I can give love without receiving it. You know, I can do that for my own self. I'm just gonna respond with kindness because that's what I'm working on. And by the way, it doesn't always work.

Jay Shetty 15:12 Mm.

Scooter Braun 15:12 Like, there are mornings you wake up and you're frustrated. We're human, and I think a beautiful thing my teacher said to me recently, he said, "Why are you giving yourself these unrealistic expectations?" And it was so beautiful what he said. It was, he said, "If, if you say to yourself, 'I'm gonna work out every single day this month,' and then you miss one workout, you know what you no- normally do? You end up missing three or four."

Jay Shetty 15:33 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 15:33 "Because you're kind of ashamed that you missed that one, so you kind of fall off the wagon."

Jay Shetty 15:37 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 15:37 The truth is, stop giving yourself this crazy expectation and give yourself some self-compassion. We're not perfect. We're flawed.

Jay Shetty 15:44 Mm.

Scooter Braun 15:44 So if I miss that workout, you know what? That's okay. I'll get back on it tomorrow.

Jay Shetty 15:48 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 15:49 You know, and the same thing goes with anger, with frustration. You're allowed to fall and stumble and then realize it and get back on, and that's the biggest thing I'm working on because-

Jay Shetty 15:59 Mm

Scooter Braun 15:59 ... I'm a perfectionist.

Jay Shetty 16:00 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 16:00 I wanna, you know, I wanna get this learning right.

Jay Shetty 16:02 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 16:03 But, but it doesn't-

Jay Shetty 16:04 Yeah

Scooter Braun 16:05 ... it doesn't end here, you know?

Jay Shetty 16:06 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 16:06 It's if it ends, I die. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 16:08 You know? And then I get probably come back and learn again.

Jay Shetty 16:11 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 16:11 Um, which is, by the way, anyone who wants to understand, you and I have talked about this, Many Lives, Many Masters by Brian Weiss-

Jay Shetty 16:16 Yeah

Scooter Braun 16:16 ... is a very good book to read to kind of just give yourself an idea of why thinking about reincarnation is such a beautiful way to look at life.

Jay Shetty 16:25 Yes.

Scooter Braun 16:25 Um-

Jay Shetty 16:26 Absolutely.

Scooter Braun 16:27 But yeah.

Jay Shetty 16:27 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 16:27 I- it's, the- these are the things you and I talk about. I know-

Jay Shetty 16:29 This, this coming-

Scooter Braun 16:30 You know-

Jay Shetty 16:30 The... Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Scooter Braun 16:31 No, I'm just saying it's-

Jay Shetty 16:32 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 16:33 ... pe- people, like, they get on the podcast, and they're like, "We're gonna talk career and everything else," and I said, "I wanna do Jay's 'cause we're probably not gonna talk any career." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it, well, for me it's just this coming from #nodaysoff.

Scooter Braun 16:43 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:43 So when I met you, it was #nodaysoff, and I'm, I'm going down on a personal, but we worked out together. I have never thrown up that bad in my life-

Scooter Braun 16:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:52 ... if you remember.

Scooter Braun 16:53 Yeah, I was a little out of control with the expectations of working out at the time.

Jay Shetty 16:56 I was like literally-

Scooter Braun 16:57 And I was like, "Are you okay?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 16:58 We worked out together. We did this crazy circuit, and I don't like high intensity for anyone who's listening or watching. And literally we did this workout, and I, you know, I mean, you can tell Scooter's got a completely different body to mine. I'm doing his-

Scooter Braun 17:10 I'm, I'm not, I'm not like I was back then, but I will say-

Jay Shetty 17:12 No, this is why-

Scooter Braun 17:12 ... you are competitive.

Jay Shetty 17:13 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 17:14 Because you would not tell me you weren't okay.

Jay Shetty 17:16 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 17:16 And I just said, "Jay, you look a little..." "No, I'm good, I'm good. Let's keep going."

Jay Shetty 17:19 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 17:19 And there were three of us, and you didn't wanna be the one person falling out, and then finally-

Jay Shetty 17:24 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 17:25 Excuse me. You're spinning. Um, finally

Scooter Braun 17:28 you literally sat down on the ground, and you're like, "I'm not okay." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:33 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 17:34 And you just, you said, "I'm gonna go to the bathroom," and you disappeared for a good 45.

Jay Shetty 17:38 Yeah, literally I was, I was puking like anything, but it was just, yeah, it was... Yeah, I've always had that spirit of wanting to see how far I can go.

Scooter Braun 17:46 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:47 And when I did that as a monk, there were experiences that broke me because we were doing crazy fasts, crazy meditations, and all it brought me back to was the realization that I wasn't Superman.

Scooter Braun 17:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 17:59 And, and I think that that's what I'm hearing from what I'm hearing you say too-

Scooter Braun 18:02 Yeah

Jay Shetty 18:02 ... is the idea of like no matter how able you are and how capable you are and the boundaries that you push, we all still have shortcomings.

Scooter Braun 18:10 And you're going to fall again. I, I'm-

Jay Shetty 18:12 Correct

Scooter Braun 18:12 ... I'm having this learning and having this epiphany, I'm gonna break again.

Jay Shetty 18:16 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 18:17 You know?

Jay Shetty 18:17 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 18:17 And, and this time I have tools to put my hand on my chest and say, "We all suffer. The world is filled with suffering. Give yourself some self-compassion."

Jay Shetty 18:24 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 18:25 You know? And, and give it to others.

Jay Shetty 18:27 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 18:29 I- it's, it's been a beautiful thing, and I, I credit some amazing people in my life who really pushed me to go there.

Jay Shetty 18:37 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 18:38 Um, and, you know, when you go there, there's also sadness.

Jay Shetty 18:42 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 18:42 You know, realizing how many things you missed because you were planning for something in the future.

Jay Shetty 18:47 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 18:48 How many times you weren't present because you thought you had to protect something that you already had, you know? And I- I'm just grateful I'm not gonna spend another 39 years not knowing these things.

Jay Shetty 19:01 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 19:02 And I look forward to every five years telling you another level of learning.

Jay Shetty 19:06 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 19:07 Um, and-

Jay Shetty 19:07 It has to be that way

Scooter Braun 19:08 ... you know, and I, and I, and I-- Weirdly, like, the falls are where the greatest learnings are.

Jay Shetty 19:16 1,000%. 1,000%, and that's, and that's the problem, right? What you just said about missing a day of a workout and then it ends up missing four days, it's the same when we go, "Okay, well, now I'm not gonna fall because I've found a new place of enlightenment." And what we don't realize is, again, like you said, it may not be every five days, but every three or four years there's gonna be another moment of revelation.

Scooter Braun 19:37 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:37 And when you keep thinking, "Oh, no, no, this time I've got it," that's, that's where the mistake is made is like, "Oh, this time it's not gonna happen." But tell me about what does it take? Because I remember you discussing the Hoffman project with me, uh, when we first met and you were like, "Oh, I'm thinking of going to this," et cetera. I want to know a bit more about the process of Hoffman so that everyone can be exposed to and understand a bit more, as much as they can. But also, like, what does it take for someone like you to go in that direction? Like, what does it take? What happened? What's going on in order to urge

Jay Shetty 20:11 you and encouraging you?

Scooter Braun 20:12 It's not as significant as like-

Jay Shetty 20:14 Yeah. Yeah, it's not. No

Scooter Braun 20:16 ... it, it wasn't like... You know, it was funny. When I went, I started, my wife and I started hearing all kinds of rumors of, "Oh, he's gone crazy," and this and that, like, 'cause I was away and, you know, all kinds of weird things. But it wasn't that. It was just feeling like I wasn't present in my life-

Jay Shetty 20:31 Yeah

Scooter Braun 20:32 ... and feeling like the people around me who love me, I felt their hurt because, one, we're all coming in with our own trauma, and weirdly our trauma was matching up.

Jay Shetty 20:46 Mm.

Scooter Braun 20:47 And I couldn't fix it. I'm a fixer. You know, I'm the guy who since I was a kid, I'm gonna make it be okay for everybody, and there was this ch- I just couldn't fix things in this moment in time. And suddenly, because I couldn't fix things, I started to spiral. I, uh, I, I started to literally lean more into my negative patterns bec- of, of wanting to control things because I couldn't fix things. And my heart was in the best place. I wanted everything to be okay and everyone to be happy.

Jay Shetty 21:22 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 21:22 But I couldn't get everything in the right place, and I'd been playing that chess game for so long, and the board was getting away from me. And suddenly I realized, a very dark thought came into my head. The, the ultimate, "I'm not enough." The ultimate-

Jay Shetty 21:40 Mm

Scooter Braun 21:41 ... "I shouldn't be here." And that's not me.

Jay Shetty 21:43 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 21:44 And when that thought entered my mind, I said, "What are you doing here?" I said, "Whoa, that... I've never gone that dark."

Jay Shetty 21:51 Yeah. [chuckles]

Scooter Braun 21:51 And I signed up for the Hoffman process the next day.

Jay Shetty 21:55 Mm.

Scooter Braun 21:56 Um-

Jay Shetty 21:56 Why Hoffman? Tell us a bit about it for anyone who doesn't know because I, I think-

Scooter Braun 22:00 Um-

Jay Shetty 22:00 ... I, I love giving credit where it's due to places and retreats that-

Scooter Braun 22:04 Started, started by a guy named Bob Hoffman. In the United States, there's one in the Napa area and there's one in Connecticut. Um, an amazing woman named Liza was the one who is one of the co-CEOs with her husband, and it's a nonprofit, and it's just an amazing process that really delves into spirituality, delves into early childhood, delves into your trauma, your patterns, um, and you give yourself over for basically seven days.

Jay Shetty 22:28 No phone, no email.

Scooter Braun 22:29 No phone, no email, no-

Jay Shetty 22:30 Not even to your kids or your wife.

Scooter Braun 22:31 No working out, no book, no nothing. And no-

Jay Shetty 22:34 Writing?

Scooter Braun 22:35 There's a lot of writing. What I will say to you is I don't wanna go into what the process is because it's important whoever does it-

Jay Shetty 22:41 Does that

Scooter Braun 22:41 ... is go-- is surprised.

Jay Shetty 22:43 Mm.

Scooter Braun 22:44 But what was interesting is I started-- I had certain people, "You know what you need? You need to go to Hoffman." And I had canceled four times-

Jay Shetty 22:50 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 22:50 ... and it was always a reason. "I'm not gonna go to this. I don't need this." Like, "I'm busy." And one of my friends, who's one of the most brilliant friends I have, um, he said to me, "When I went in, I went in to manipulate it so I can come out and show the people I love, 'Look, I did this. Aren't you proud of me?'" 'Cause someone that, that, you know, he loved had done it. And he looked at me and he said, "You can't manipulate this."

Jay Shetty 23:13 Mm.

Scooter Braun 23:14 And I was fascinated that he said that 'cause he's such a smart guy, and I'm like, "What could they really do in a week?" And he said, "It's gonna be the most remarkable experience of your life." And my other friend, Penny, had said it to me and, you know, and I, um, I decided I'm gonna go, and it felt like I was-- it was gone for a year almost.

Jay Shetty 23:32 Mm.

Scooter Braun 23:32 You know? And I really gave myself over to this process and made really amazing friendships. Um, I wasn't, like, sharing... You share feelings and, you know, different things, and I opened up in a way that I never expected. And I laugh now 'cause I, I look back at the timeline of when we did things, 'cause I had this workbook, and I realized that day two I remember having such an intimate conversation with my teacher, and I thought, "That must have been day five." It was day two. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 23:56 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 23:57 You know? And-

Jay Shetty 23:57 You went in deep straight away.

Scooter Braun 23:58 Yeah, I went in deep and, um, I uncovered a lot of things and I realized a lot of things about myself, about my patterns, about forgiveness for myself, understanding of things, um, forgiveness of others. Um, and, and I was just eternally grateful. And what was interesting is when I came out, I had this, "Ooh, I'm so happy. I'm so in love with w- life and myself and the world and people." And I came back and I entered a lot of darkness. Um- And, and the tools that I got at Hoffman allowed me to understand that the darkness was because that's what God wanted me to have.

Jay Shetty 24:39 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 24:40 That's what... There were lessons that I needed to learn. I'd now been given these tools, and there was no darkness.

Jay Shetty 24:47 Mm.

Scooter Braun 24:48 There was an opportunity to learn.

Jay Shetty 24:50 Mm.

Scooter Braun 24:50 There was an opportunity to go deeper every single day. And I always found that when I was doing my meditations, the biggest revelations were my deepest breaths.

Jay Shetty 24:59 Mm.

Scooter Braun 25:00 My longest, deepest breaths, I'd have the deepest revelations. And I, in one of my meditations, I realized that's life.

Jay Shetty 25:06 Mm.

Scooter Braun 25:07 I'd been going around taking these quick breaths, treating my life that way, and I wasn't slowing down enough in life to take a deep breath and let it come to me.

Jay Shetty 25:15 Mm.

Scooter Braun 25:16 Um, and, and that is, that just comes down to a l- you know, self-forgiveness and-

Jay Shetty 25:22 Yeah

Scooter Braun 25:22 ... you know, and a lot of, uh, a lot of beautiful things. And I'm really grateful to, you know, the people... I will never say who I was there with because they don't do that.

Jay Shetty 25:31 Of course.

Scooter Braun 25:31 And no one has ever said I was there. This is actually the first time I've publicly said that I was there.

Jay Shetty 25:35 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 25:36 Um, and it was a very cool thing. I, I'm very grateful. And, and now sharing this, there's so many other people who come to me of, like, their things of self-work that they've done.

Jay Shetty 25:45 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 25:45 And they're like, "You should try this, and try this," and it's, it's just a very exciting place to be. And I can tell you the greatest gift of all is for my children.

Jay Shetty 25:56 Mm.

Scooter Braun 25:56 You know, I, I was a good dad before. I love my kids. I would come home every night and put them to sleep and, you know, and I'm, I'm married to super mom. Um-

Jay Shetty 26:06 She's awesome. Yeah

Scooter Braun 26:07 ... and I am present with my children in a way that I didn't know possible before.

Jay Shetty 26:13 Mm.

Scooter Braun 26:14 And I think that's the greatest thing Hoffman gave me.

Jay Shetty 26:17 It's, it's so, it's so beautiful listening to someone have that experience. Like, I could sit here and just listen to you all day-

Scooter Braun 26:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 26:23 ... because it's, it is. It, it's so gratifying to the soul, like, on a much more deeper spiritual level to hear someone having that experience and, and, and doing that work. And how does that... And I, and I do wanna talk a bit about career on this, on this level of frequency because what I'm fascinated by, and I think this is what people often don't see as symbiotic, is how spiritual insight leads to spiritual career practice. How does, how does someone like you take this very profound experience and work... And by the way, having known you for a few years, like, I know that this wasn't just seven days of work. This is years, and years, and years, and years of work.

Scooter Braun 27:05 There was a lot leading up to this.

Jay Shetty 27:06 Yeah, exactly. In seven days, where the seven days, like, accelerates and-

Scooter Braun 27:10 Yeah

Jay Shetty 27:10 ... like, really makes it powerful and meaningful. But that you've been doing this for a while and thinking about these things for a while. How does that then manifest in your work? How do you take this

Jay Shetty 27:20 energy? Is it how you're dealing with people? Is it how you're creating stuff? How does someone do that? Because I think a lot of people, even I get asked this question a lot, is, like, they see spirituality and business as, like, almost separate.

Scooter Braun 27:32 Yeah, I completely disagree.

Jay Shetty 27:33 Yeah, same.

Scooter Braun 27:34 You know, the other thing I, I, I wanna point out, 'cause I've been thinking a lot about this, is that the same way I said that I believe you get the lessons when you're supposed to get them-

Jay Shetty 27:42 Mm

Scooter Braun 27:43 ... I believe you're supposed to... I don't think I should have had this mentality in the beginning of my career.

Jay Shetty 27:50 Mm.

Scooter Braun 27:50 I think that-

Jay Shetty 27:50 Mm

Scooter Braun 27:50 ... I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. The universe wants me to be exactly where I am. So things, I needed to be a certain way at certain points to learn those things, for those things to happen, and now this is where I am at 39.

Jay Shetty 28:07 Mm.

Scooter Braun 28:07 And this is where I needed to learn. And now, you know, I'm, I'm having a different kind of grace. I'm having a different kind of empathy. I'm understanding to let go and allow people to have their process and their journey in a different way because I'm understanding my own in a different way. Um, I'm, I'm not having this need to justify. You know, there's times where I'm, I'm seeing how I'm like, "Well, they're, they're seeing my growth as, like, 'Oh, he got there.'" And I'm sitting there like, "Well, you haven't got there either." And I'm, I'm smiling to myself 'cause it's not my place to say that because it wasn't their place to say it to me.

Jay Shetty 28:47 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 28:48 You know? And I'm, I'm here to... You know, it's almost funny. We talk about different religions, you and I. And I'm Jewish. You know, I've grown up in a Christian society, and I've gotten to a place also where understanding I don't want to live my Judaism in fear.

Jay Shetty 29:02 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 29:03 You know? Thousands of years of persecution gave us strength, but also a lot of fear.

Jay Shetty 29:09 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 29:10 And telling us we can't go near something, yet, you know, Moses married Zipporah, who was not Jewish, and when he brought her to his people and he said, "She loves me," and everything, no one questioned that or anything. Just years of assimilation and losing identity caused us to have a tremendous amount of fear, and I don't want to live with that fear anymore. I want to explore other spiritualities and be true to myself and my own. You know, I'm not afraid to hear the wisdom of another spirituality. So, you know, my friend, he was giving a sermon, he's Christian, and I listened and I thought it was beautiful. He was saying in the Book of Matthew, it's not about saying it and teaching it, it's about living it-

Jay Shetty 29:44 Mm-hmm

Scooter Braun 29:44 ... and letting someone else see it. And I've now seen that, you know, we've talked about it within your religion. And I, I, I'm trying to get to that place of, like, I don't have all the answers. I'm figuring it out every single day. I am as flawed as they get.

Jay Shetty 29:57 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 29:57 You know? But I'm just gonna try to live my best self.

Jay Shetty 30:00 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 30:01 You know? And, you know, last night I did a Clubhouse talk with Demi.

Jay Shetty 30:05 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 30:06 And, um, she became my client over the past year.

Jay Shetty 30:08 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 30:09 And she's been through a lot, and we have this amazing documentary coming out.

Jay Shetty 30:12 Absolutely.

Scooter Braun 30:13 And she and I were talking about her whole career, every time she faltered, she has the strength to get back up, and people call her a role model.

Jay Shetty 30:21 Mm.

Scooter Braun 30:22 And she's like, "I'm just afraid because it's just too much perfection to live in."

Jay Shetty 30:26 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 30:26 "And then I always crash." And she started to do interviews for this new album, and she's like, "I wanna be a role model." And I called her up and said, "What are you doing?" I said, "You're giving yourself that same sense, self, you know, perfection that caused you to fall before."

Jay Shetty 30:40 Mm.

Scooter Braun 30:40 I said, "We gotta change the word." And I thought about my brother Adam, who has a nonprofit called Pencil of Promise, and he told me, "I don't wanna be called nonprofit. I wanna be called for purpose."

Jay Shetty 30:50 Mm.

Scooter Braun 30:50 "I don't wanna say what we don't do. I wanna say what we do." And-

Jay Shetty 30:53 Totally.

Scooter Braun 30:54 And I said to-

Jay Shetty 30:55 Love that

Scooter Braun 30:55 ... Demi, "Stop calling yourself a role model. Let's go with real model."

Jay Shetty 30:59 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 30:59 "You're a real person, and you are flawed, and you are imperfect, and you are honest, and you don't have to be perfect ever again." And we like that, and that's how she's saying now.

Jay Shetty 31:09 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 31:09 And I think if we start treating ourselves and others with this same sense of... It's why I hate cancel culture. I mean, I understand we all have a lot of pain, but if we don't op- give people an opportunity for growth, what are we doing? We're just giving the next generation the same pain.

Jay Shetty 31:27 Mm.

Scooter Braun 31:28 You know? And I... And it's a hard thing to ask people. It's a hard thing to ask when you've been abused, when you've been persecuted, when you've been mistreated, to love your neighbor.

Jay Shetty 31:38 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 31:38 You know? It- that's a very tall order, and, and I don't think it's my right to tell someone to do it.

Jay Shetty 31:44 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 31:44 But I can choose to start doing it in my own life, and I can tell you it's hard.

Jay Shetty 31:49 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 31:49 It's hard, and I falter, and I stumble sometimes. And I, I said to my wife just the other day, I said, "Hey, I caught myself the other day. I was upset with someone on how they treated me, so I made a comment to you that wasn't the kindest comment about them."

Jay Shetty 32:06 Mm.

Scooter Braun 32:07 You know, it wasn't awful, but I just wasn't giving them their credit because I was upset about something that happened to me.

Jay Shetty 32:13 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 32:13 I said, "If you catch me doing that, can you just, if you notice it, just tell me to stay in my heart." And she was like, "I got you." And I think that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to stay there.

Jay Shetty 32:23 Yeah, and that's that accountability culture. Like, you know, you have someone in your life that you're being accountable to, your wife in this example.

Scooter Braun 32:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:30 And, like, that feeling of we do need accountability. We wanna be accountable to ourselves, to the people we love, the people that are important. And I just wanted to point out, I don't know if you know this, how perfect it was that you said the real and role models thing. Tupac said, "We need real models, not role models," and I'm looking at him.

Scooter Braun 32:44 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:44 And I'm looking at you, and I'm like-

Scooter Braun 32:46 I'll take my shirt off. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:47 Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Show me the more love, uh, love more tattoo.

Scooter Braun 32:50 Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:51 Uh, but, but it's so, that's such a beautiful point. And, and you know, I, I wanna share this because we talked about this, and I, and I struggle with that. So me and my wife, when we talk about relationships, we talk about our mistakes. If you listen to our podcast, she's been my guest three times. Every year we do an episode together, and we talk about everything we get wrong. And the number one comment will be hashtag relationship goals, or the number one comment will be like hashtag cutest couple or whatever it is. And my comment back will be, "Please listen to what I'm saying." And so what I find is that we've been conditioned and programmed to want someone to be perfect.

Scooter Braun 33:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:28 Demi, you, Justin, uh, you know, Ariana, whoever, uh, me and my wife and whatever.

Scooter Braun 33:33 No one's perfect.

Jay Shetty 33:34 None of us are perfect.

Scooter Braun 33:35 That's why when you and I talked once, and I said, um, we're, we're made to serve, not to be worshiped.

Jay Shetty 33:41 A thousand percent.

Scooter Braun 33:42 Because no one can live up to worship.

Jay Shetty 33:44 No one, apart from God.

Scooter Braun 33:45 God, that's it.

Jay Shetty 33:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 33:46 You know, worship God, serve each other.

Jay Shetty 33:49 Yes. I love... That, that thought is, is perfect and beautiful, but that's what I mean, that because we've been conditioned to want to worship humans, we direct that worship into an athlete, into a singer, into a teacher, into a guide, whoever it is. But it's a shame that even when you have someone opening up and saying what it's actually like, our programming up here is so strong that we still project perfection. So now the new trend is, before it was if you were flawless or at least presented yourself as flawless, that was considered worship-worthy. Today now it's the opposite. If someone's really vulnerable, that's worship-worthy. But the point is what you just said is, let's move away from worship completely, and let's just serve and support each other.

Scooter Braun 34:32 I wanna say two things to this.

Jay Shetty 34:34 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 34:34 One is about you, and one's about me.

Jay Shetty 34:35 Okay. [laughs]

Scooter Braun 34:36 Um-

Jay Shetty 34:37 It's good. We're both in the room

Scooter Braun 34:38 ... I'm gonna go with you first-

Jay Shetty 34:39 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 34:39 ... just because, and then I can end on me so you don't feel bad. A little over a year ago, you called me and you said, "Can we go for a walk?"

Scooter Braun 34:45 And we went for a walk, and I said, "This is the unfortunate thing that we do to each other. We get to this place where we just wanna tear each other down."

Jay Shetty 34:54 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 34:55 And there's that line in Batman where they say, you know, "If you do it, you know, well long..." I forgot the line perfectly, but it's like, "If you do it well long," right?

Jay Shetty 35:01 If you do something long enough-

Scooter Braun 35:02 You too could be the villain or something.

Jay Shetty 35:04 Yeah, I know exactly.

Scooter Braun 35:05 You know what I mean? Like-

Jay Shetty 35:05 Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 35:06 Yeah, it's, it's, it's-

Jay Shetty 35:06 Wait, wait. Let me find it. It's a good line.

Scooter Braun 35:08 It's, I think, I think, uh, Heath said it as the Joker.

Jay Shetty 35:11 Yeah. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain." Yeah, it's great.

Scooter Braun 35:16 There you go.

Jay Shetty 35:16 It's Batman. Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 35:17 Yep. And, and-

Jay Shetty 35:18 Yeah

Scooter Braun 35:18 ... and that's so spot on in what we do to each other.

Jay Shetty 35:21 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 35:21 And for me, I've, I've recently watched, um, the, uh, Queen's Gambit special.

Jay Shetty 35:28 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 35:28 The, the show on Netflix, which was fantastic. And I ha- coming out of Hoffman and seeing that, I just had this epiphany that I had been this chess player my whole life. I had stared at the board, and people would come and show me attention and affection because of my skills on that board. So I thought, "Oh, that's love, so I'm gonna keep playing this game." And people said, "Wow, you're really good at this. You're smart. You... You look at the career you're building. Look at the life you're building." The chess pieces are moving and moving and moving and moving, but I never took the time to stop, take a breath, and say, "Hey, I'm really good at this game. If you ever wanna talk about it, I'm happy to, but my name's Scott. Nice to meet you," until now.

Jay Shetty 36:05 Mm.

Scooter Braun 36:08 And so many people that loved me didn't know me. That's where the darkness was coming from because I don't feel like I've changed. I feel like I've reclaimed myself.

Jay Shetty 36:20 Mm.

Scooter Braun 36:21 And that was the gift of this year. You know, I... And I've had so many friends, "Oh, they're... You're such a change." I shaved because when I was doing a meditation, I saw the spiritual version of myself that I wanted to be. I didn't have a beard.

Jay Shetty 36:36 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 36:37 And I literally shaved that night, and I haven't had a beard since.

Jay Shetty 36:39 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 36:42 I feel good because I went back and got me, you know? And, and I love the person that I was all these years, and that's a part of me. I just reclaimed the rest of me.

Jay Shetty 36:55 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 36:55 You know, I was relying too much on one side of the body. I went and got the rest, and now I'm walking in a straight line and not putting so much pressure on my right foot.

Jay Shetty 37:03 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:03 You know? [laughs] Um-

Jay Shetty 37:05 That must feel good. [laughs]

Scooter Braun 37:05 It does.

Jay Shetty 37:06 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:07 And I have this teacher now who literally, I will lay out things that have d- been done to me that are very... Anyone else would be like... And he looks at me and goes, "Well, what role did you play?"

Jay Shetty 37:17 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:17 And it's an interesting thing because you go through life just learning.

Jay Shetty 37:22 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:23 And, you know, I think that's why, you know, I, I would look and people think, "God, well, God forgive me." And I'd get frustrated growing up 'cause I'd be like, "You're just making an excuse using God."

Jay Shetty 37:33 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:34 But I actually now realize, why was I frustrated that they felt forgiven?

Jay Shetty 37:39 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:40 That was my stuff.

Jay Shetty 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 37:42 I'm angry that they felt forgiven 'cause I hadn't forgiven myself-

Jay Shetty 37:44 Myself

Scooter Braun 37:44 ... for something.

Jay Shetty 37:45 Yes.

Scooter Braun 37:46 You know?

Jay Shetty 37:46 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:46 And, and I had my own work to do, and I was projecting

Scooter Braun 37:50 my stuff on them.

Jay Shetty 37:51 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 37:52 And the truth is, if we can all get to a place, if God sees everything that we're doing, He sees our messy, 'cause s- we're all messy.

Jay Shetty 38:02 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 38:03 But He loves our messy. If we can get to a place where we start to do- love each other in the messy, that's when you start to feel really loved.

Jay Shetty 38:10 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 38:11 You know, I started to love myself in the messy.

Jay Shetty 38:13 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 38:13 Now I'm loving other people in my life in the messy, and that's real love. It's, it's not... It's easy to love somebody when they're showing up for you all the time.

Jay Shetty 38:23 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 38:24 It's easy to love someone when the-

Jay Shetty 38:27 They're doing good

Scooter Braun 38:27 ... when they're doing good and they're giving you this ideal of perfection that makes you feel good.

Jay Shetty 38:32 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 38:32 You know, or not even perfection, they just make you feel good. It's so much harder to love somebody when they disappoint you.

Jay Shetty 38:39 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 38:40 You know? And what I've started to realize is, through my own actions, if someone's disappointed me or when I've disappointed someone else, it's because I'm really disappointed in myself and I'm projecting it onto somebody.

Jay Shetty 38:53 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 38:53 And that's where that empathy comes from. And you and I could talk about this for hours-

Jay Shetty 38:57 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 38:57 ... and, and I'm the first one to say I'm scratching the surface of this.

Jay Shetty 39:01 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 39:02 I'm just figuring it out.

Jay Shetty 39:03 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 39:03 I'm screwing up on a daily basis.

Jay Shetty 39:04 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 39:05 And I'm just starting to really give myself empathy for the first time.

Jay Shetty 39:10 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 39:11 And I'm excited about it, and I'm excited to learn. I'm excited to dig in, and I'm excited to be present.

Jay Shetty 39:16 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 39:16 I'm excited to have long conversations with people and, like, look them in their eyes, like I'm looking you in your gorgeous eyes there. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 39:24 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 39:25 Um, but I, I'm- I've always been... I wanna honor you 'cause I, I've always been grateful that you and I have had these conversations.

Jay Shetty 39:34 Yeah. Me too. I mean, it's been big for me because I think for me too, it's like you don't, you don't, you know, when, when things are changing and moving and growing fast and you're not even aware of half the things, and y- I mean, you do a million things. And so... And that's, and that's partly the mistake also because you start recognizing, oh, well, if I'm not aware, or if I'm not conscious of everything I'm doing, then maybe I do need to slow down. Maybe I do need to change something. Maybe I do need to find the right people to be around me. And, and it all comes back to everything's trying to remind you to be conscious, to be awake.

Scooter Braun 40:11 Yep.

Jay Shetty 40:11 To not try and get away with being asleep. Like, everything's trying to wake you up all the time, whereas we want to go to sleep in some areas of our life.

Scooter Braun 40:19 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:19 And we wanna be, you know, like, you wanna be able to just let go of this thing here over here.

Scooter Braun 40:23 It's so exciting-

Jay Shetty 40:25 Yeah, it is exciting

Scooter Braun 40:25 ... when you start to have these discoveries within yourself that you wanna share. So it's almost like, hey, the thing you, you've been learning the most when you're not talking. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:33 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 40:34 You know? So it's like this dichotomy, and then there's that grace of just like, it's okay.

Jay Shetty 40:40 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 40:40 I don't have to be so hard on myself.

Jay Shetty 40:41 No.

Scooter Braun 40:42 If I'm excited today, yeah, maybe I'm gonna over-talk.

Jay Shetty 40:45 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 40:45 That's okay. Tomorrow I can be quiet. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:46 Well, this is an interview with you. [laughs]

Scooter Braun 40:48 Yeah, but, but I'm just saying, like, it's, it's that, it's giving yourself that grace of like-

Jay Shetty 40:52 Yeah

Scooter Braun 40:52 ... and that, that's another pattern. Like, as a kid, like-

Jay Shetty 40:54 Yeah

Scooter Braun 40:54 ... you know, you dim your light a little bit. Like, oh-

Jay Shetty 40:56 Yeah

Scooter Braun 40:56 ... you're being too loud. And i- i- getting to a place in your life where, you know, when your, when y- your child is running in front of you and they're being louder, they, you're not holding a grudge against your child.

Jay Shetty 41:08 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 41:09 We hold these grudges as adults against ourselves and each other, but when we watch children play, they move on so quickly. [laughs] And I wish we can get back to a little bit of that, you know, within ourselves. It's, you know, even today I found myself just now being like, "Oh, you're talking too much."

Jay Shetty 41:22 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 41:23 And then maybe I am, but that's okay.

Jay Shetty 41:26 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 41:27 You know, give myself a little bit of grace. Like, that's okay.

Jay Shetty 41:29 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 41:29 And you know what? I can shut up, too. And like-

Jay Shetty 41:32 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 41:32 ... there's no right or wrong here. It's two friends having a conversation and a bunch of people listening.

Jay Shetty 41:37 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 41:38 And everyone's gonna have a different reaction.

Jay Shetty 41:40 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 41:41 And that's okay.

Jay Shetty 41:42 Yeah. What does compassion mean when we say being compassionate with ourselves? It means to change your behavior enough so that you've shown that you've learned-

Scooter Braun 41:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 41:53 ... but it means to love yourself as you're growing-

Scooter Braun 41:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:56 ... and changing that behavior.

Scooter Braun 41:57 Which is confusing. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 41:58 It's confusing, but that's what it means because when people hear the word compassion, they think, oh, you're just being soft on yourself. Like, oh, oh, you're not judging yourself, which means you're not holding yourself accountable. But being compassionate means I know I need to change my behavior. I'm gonna start doing that, but I'm gonna love myself while I do that.

Scooter Braun 42:14 And I think it's... I love that you said that because let's take it a step further. Let's go back to that workout.

Jay Shetty 42:18 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 42:18 Right? If I'm actually being compassionate with myself, I'll get back on it the next day.

Jay Shetty 42:23 Yes.

Scooter Braun 42:24 You know, it, it's, we act as if we're, especially with cancel culture, we move in such a finite way. We don't think long term. We don't think in judging our lives. We judge in the moment, and then we judge moments later.

Jay Shetty 42:42 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 42:42 You know? So- I- it's, compassion to me is allow yourself to understand you're just in a moment in a very long story.

Jay Shetty 42:51 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 42:52 You know? And your story is not written yet.

Jay Shetty 42:55 Gotcha.

Scooter Braun 42:55 You're just writing part of it right now.

Jay Shetty 42:57 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 42:58 And a great story is never stagnant.

Jay Shetty 43:02 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 43:02 So how would your teachers tell you to treat each moment? Like, how do they, how do they say to go about it? Because the one thing I'm working on is, well, you still have to show up.

Jay Shetty 43:11 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Scooter Braun 43:11 You still have to show up to every moment.

Jay Shetty 43:12 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 43:12 But how do your teachers tell you to show up to each moment? How do they tell you to treat it mentally as you go into it?

Jay Shetty 43:17 The biggest mantra that was stated at the start of a moment was, "Don't judge the moment." As soon as you label a moment, it now gets labeled in that jar or that box or that filing cabinet and cupboard, and then now you never reflect on whether that label was right or wrong.

Scooter Braun 43:32 So just be.

Jay Shetty 43:33 So just be, because if you label, it's, it's the labeling type-- The mind wants to label things to make it simpler.

Scooter Braun 43:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:38 That was a good experience, that was a bad experience. That was a good taco, that was a bad taco. That was a good restaurant, that was a bad restaurant. But as soon as you label it, you now don't allow that to become anything else. What if that restaurant evolves? So the idea of labeling simplifies for the mind, but actually makes the long term complex. So the idea is instead of labeling, allow yourself to experience, allow yourself to re-experience, and then if multiple experiences obviously give you the same experience, then you may put a label in pencil. But you're penciling labeling, you're not putting, like, a permanent marker.

Scooter Braun 44:12 You know what's funny? My teacher uses the word be curious.

Jay Shetty 44:15 Yeah, exactly.

Scooter Braun 44:16 You know? It's, it's not be definitive.

Jay Shetty 44:19 Yes.

Scooter Braun 44:19 You know, be curious.

Jay Shetty 44:20 Yes, exactly.

Scooter Braun 44:21 And, but I wanna play this game with you a little bit.

Jay Shetty 44:24 Let's do it.

Scooter Braun 44:24 I wanna challenge you a little bit.

Jay Shetty 44:25 I love it. Let's do that.

Scooter Braun 44:26 Only because I want people listening to your podcast to hear-

Jay Shetty 44:29 Yeah

Scooter Braun 44:29 ... you respond to this stuff, 'cause I think-

Jay Shetty 44:30 Yeah

Scooter Braun 44:30 ... you're brilliant about this. For those people who are listening to this podcast saying, "Okay, I get all this, like, you know, growth and learning and everything else, but COVID's been hard and I've, I don't have a job right now, and I can't pay my bills. And I've looked up who Scooter Braun is, and this guy financially, he's not in the same place as me, and he's out of touch, and he can talk about all this spiritual learning, but he doesn't know what I'm going through." They're right. They're right. I do not know their experience. I don't know anyone else's experience, I only know my own. But what I wanted to ask you is, what is your response to someone who is saying, "This is easy to talk about, but what about in this capitalistic society that I live in? If I'm doing all this, I, I think I need to kind of just bury my head in the sand and just work, work, work, work, work. I don't have time for feelings and relationship. I need to get this money."

Jay Shetty 45:24 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 45:25 Because I've gone on this new app Clubhouse many times.

Jay Shetty 45:27 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 45:28 And I go into these rooms, and I hear everybody talking about, "Get this money, get this money. How do I get to the top? How do I do this? How do I do that?" And every time I go in a room, I keep trying to stay. The top of the mountain isn't what you expect.

Jay Shetty 45:39 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 45:40 So I wanted to kind of push you on that, um, 'cause you have extraordinary people who are living extraordinary lives coming on here, and there are a lot of people out there, and I was once in, you know, certain positions, but I'm not in that position right now, and I'm sensitive to that and I'm compassionate to that. What do you tell somebody who says, "This is all nice and everything, but I don't get-- I don't have that liberty"?

Jay Shetty 46:05 Yeah. So the first thing I'd say is that we all get to choose what our intention right now in life is, and if that's the intention that makes you happy and suits you, that's fine. Like, I wouldn't even, I don't even wanna edit it. I don't even wanna convince you of anything, because I remember being in a similar position myself j- not so long back, a few years ago, and I know that I had an

Jay Shetty 46:29 intention to make a choice. At the same time, I would say to them, "If you're open to the idea that there is a better, smarter, more fulfilling way to go about making money, building a business, finding your way to the top, whatever you wanna call it, then this is that path. And if you're open to that, then what you're hearing from Scooter..." But again, what I loved you said, and you, you actually made this really clear, there was a mindset, you've got to this at the right time for you.

Scooter Braun 46:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:57 Wh- which I'm remembering because that means that that person, whoever's saying that, is gonna get to this. I've-- I don't know anyone who I meet who doesn't get to this, whether they're a billionaire or whether they just started out. I was lucky enough to get it at 18 when I met my monk teachers.

Scooter Braun 47:13 Mm.

Jay Shetty 47:13 This is the stuff I was talking about at 18 years old-

Scooter Braun 47:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 47:16 ... because that's what I was given in this life. And there are some people that I've met that have taken till 70 to get it, some people in their 30s, and the point is that you are gonna have to get here at some point. Everyone's gonna have to get to this point.

Scooter Braun 47:27 And you need the context from before.

Jay Shetty 47:29 Correct. And-

Scooter Braun 47:30 Uh, th- that's what my-- I, I love this

Jay Shetty 47:31 ... but just do whatever you do intentionally.

Scooter Braun 47:33 That's my, my teacher said to me, he goes, "You're exactly where you're supposed to be." And it's, you know, Coretta Scott King said, "Each generation has to fight the fight all over again."

Jay Shetty 47:41 Yes.

Scooter Braun 47:41 You know, it, all of us, none of us get out unscathed.

Jay Shetty 47:45 No one.

Scooter Braun 47:46 And all of us get the blessing of the journey.

Jay Shetty 47:48 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 47:48 You know, and I was thinking about, you know, the, this, you know, the teaching we all get in our Judeo-Christian society of Adam and Eve, and this idea that we sinned and we were cast out.

Jay Shetty 47:59 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 48:00 We were punished. We were punished, we were cast out, we realized we were nude, we were ashamed. That's why we started wearing clothes, all this different stuff. And I started thinking

Scooter Braun 48:08 about that as a parent.

Jay Shetty 48:10 Mm.

Scooter Braun 48:10 Because we're all God's children.

Jay Shetty 48:13 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 48:13 So I was like, well, let me rephrase this in my mind. When I give my child a consequence or a punishment, I don't do it because I'm mad at them.

Jay Shetty 48:25 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 48:26 I do it because I love them and I'm trying to guide them to an important lesson.

Jay Shetty 48:30 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 48:31 And I realized that my idea of this idea that the original sin took place was wrong.

Jay Shetty 48:37 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 48:38 I believe that all of us, 'cause God loves us and wants us to learn- ... are given the gift of life and the gift of struggle-

Jay Shetty 48:50 Yeah

Scooter Braun 48:50 ... and the gift of being cast out so that we can go and get the context we need to appreciate the Garden of Eden, the heaven.

Jay Shetty 48:58 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 48:59 So the spirituality, the enlightenment.

Jay Shetty 49:01 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 49:02 And it's been an exciting way to look at things now.

Jay Shetty 49:06 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 49:07 That everything... That's why I loved reading Many Lives, Many Masters because when I kind of realized that a lot of major religions and spirituality actually all-

Jay Shetty 49:15 Believe in reincarnation

Scooter Braun 49:16 ... believe in reincarnation. Kabbalah talks about reincarnation.

Jay Shetty 49:18 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 49:18 A lot of major religions-

Jay Shetty 49:20 Yeah

Scooter Braun 49:20 ... talk about reincarnation in their spirituality practices.

Jay Shetty 49:22 Yes.

Scooter Braun 49:23 And when you read this book, which is a true story, and you kind of understand that if you just kind of accept that you get to come back and you're always learning-

Jay Shetty 49:32 Yeah

Scooter Braun 49:32 ... you start to not fear death anymore.

Jay Shetty 49:35 Mm.

Scooter Braun 49:35 And you start to realize, "This is gonna be hard. There are days my heart's gonna ache. There are days I'm not gonna wa- I feel like I can't breathe 'cause I'm hurting." But all of those feelings, all of that is helping us learn things and give us context for greater lessons.

Jay Shetty 49:49 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 49:50 And I'm in it, and I'm excited, and I know that the funny part is I've come to terms with the fact of like, oh, I'm not here to have this great life. I love my life, and I'm grateful, and I'm gonna, like I've told you, you know, I'm gonna keep pouring my glass in other people's glasses.

Jay Shetty 50:04 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 50:04 But I think the thing I'm most thrilled about is now I understand that pain is coming.

Jay Shetty 50:10 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 50:11 Happiness is coming.

Jay Shetty 50:13 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 50:13 Joy is coming. Heartache is coming when I least expect it because the fact that I wake up every morning and I'm still breathing means that there's something else for me to learn. I kind of take some joy in that now.

Jay Shetty 50:24 Yeah. But see, this... But, oh, uh, what you just said, it, that, when you just said at the end, that last statement you said, "But I take joy in that now," that was, the, this sounds intense, but it's actually beautiful, and that's where the joy part comes in. So when we were trained, the scripture would say that life is about education, not enjoyment. Like, life's about enlightenment, not enjoyment. Now, what I mean by that is the joy of learning is the joy of life, but we are seeking enjoyment through the temporary pleasure-

Scooter Braun 51:01 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:01 ... through the external satisfaction, through the quick win, through the top, through the mountain, whatever it may be. And as soon as you switch that, so every area you walk i- if you walked into every room today and you went in there and said, "How can I learn from it and how can I serve in it?" Versus, "How can I enjoy this moment?"

Scooter Braun 51:19 I love that.

Jay Shetty 51:20 That's the difference because-

Scooter Braun 51:21 I love that

Jay Shetty 51:21 ... you, we walk into every room going, "How can I enjoy this?" You see a woman or a man, you go, "How can I enjoy them?" You see a house, you go, "How can I enjoy this?"

Scooter Braun 51:28 You know what's funny? I'm thinking to myself, "Well, where's the struggle?" The struggle is when I haven't learned the lesson from the last room and I'm still stuck on that lesson.

Jay Shetty 51:34 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 51:35 And I gotta walk into the next room.

Jay Shetty 51:36 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 51:37 And that's where you start to get in a vicious cycle and, you know, it, it's like you start to falter. Give yourself that grace of, "Hey, let's slow down. Let's take that big, deep breath."

Jay Shetty 51:45 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 51:45 "Let's reset."

Jay Shetty 51:46 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 51:46 It's why, you know, when you, you went on that trip together, you guys were waking up every morning and meditating.

Jay Shetty 51:51 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 51:51 And I was like, "Oh, I've learned TM." The... I now meditate every morning.

Jay Shetty 51:54 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 51:55 And it has changed my life.

Jay Shetty 51:57 Yes.

Scooter Braun 51:57 And you know what? Let me rephrase that. I try to meditate every morning.

Jay Shetty 52:01 Yeah. [laughs]

Scooter Braun 52:02 There are days that I miss.

Jay Shetty 52:04 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 52:04 And now I give myself the grace of I'll get back on it tomorrow-

Jay Shetty 52:06 Yeah

Scooter Braun 52:06 ... or maybe I'll do a quick one tonight.

Jay Shetty 52:08 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 52:08 You know, I'm not, "Oh, I meditate every day."

Jay Shetty 52:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 52:11 You know? It's-

Jay Shetty 52:12 Yeah

Scooter Braun 52:12 ... I, I enjoy meditating. I like what it does for me, and I'm, if I miss one, I give myself that grace, and I get back on the, you know, horse tomorrow.

Jay Shetty 52:20 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 52:21 Um-

Jay Shetty 52:21 But that's what I mean, that, that, that the joy... Like, people go, "Well, then where's the fun in life? If I'm always learning, where's the fun?" The learning is the fun part.

Scooter Braun 52:29 The fun.

Jay Shetty 52:29 Like, when you come into a new place and, like your teacher said, you're curious. Like, when you came in here, you were, like, looking at the quotes-

Scooter Braun 52:34 Yeah

Jay Shetty 52:35 ... looking at the people. You're not trying to enjoy the art. You're, like, curious, and you-

Scooter Braun 52:39 Yeah

Jay Shetty 52:39 ... want to learn.

Jay Shetty 52:40 That is the fun of life.

Scooter Braun 52:40 That's childlike.

Jay Shetty 52:41 That's childlike, exactly. Where it's, a childish mentality is to enjoy.

Scooter Braun 52:46 Well, you know, it's funny. As I started diving into all the different major religions-

Jay Shetty 52:50 Yeah

Scooter Braun 52:50 ... there's a quote in almost every major religion that talks about God. If you... Like, they, they ask Jesus, they say, "Show me," you know, "Show me God," and he says-

Jay Shetty 52:58 Yeah

Scooter Braun 52:58 ... "Look at the child."

Jay Shetty 52:59 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 52:59 And in Judaism they say it, and in Hindu they say it.

Jay Shetty 53:01 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 53:01 Like, all these different... Every religion you'll find something that points to the child-

Jay Shetty 53:05 Yeah

Scooter Braun 53:05 ... and the innocence of the child and the love the child has. And, you know, for me, I talked to, um, someone who actually went to Hoffman after me.

Jay Shetty 53:14 Mm.

Scooter Braun 53:15 And, you know, this person hit me up, and they were like, "I'm losing the high. Life is pulling me back in. I'm getting depressed. I'm losing the high that I had three weeks ago when I got out."

Jay Shetty 53:26 Mm.

Scooter Braun 53:26 "How do I get it back?" And I said, "I don't know if I'm right, but I'll try and answer this question. And the way I'm gonna answer it, I don't know if you're gonna like."

Jay Shetty 53:35 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 53:36 I said, "You got a high because you dealt with your worst demons."

Jay Shetty 53:42 Mm.

Scooter Braun 53:42 "And then you gave yourself forgiveness, and you learned."

Jay Shetty 53:47 Mm.

Scooter Braun 53:47 "If you wanna get that high again, stop looking for the happiness. Look for the resistance. Look for the lessons in the resistance, and when you have the epiphany again, you'll get that high back."

Jay Shetty 53:59 Yeah, and that's, that's exactly the point I'm making is that we're looking for the high in life-

Scooter Braun 54:03 Yeah

Jay Shetty 54:03 ... constantly. We're looking for the enjoyment. We're looking for that, uh, release, that, that fun moment, but you got that experience from the work.

Scooter Braun 54:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:13 Right? And, and that's such a beautiful way of looking at it. Tell me about some of the projects that you're working on right now that excite you the most, that you feel like are allowing you to love more. Some of these could be, I know, SB Projects media work, but it also could be some of the philanthropy work that you're doing that behind the scenes. Some of the work that you feel so excited and proud of because I also want to give you an opportunity, as I want everyone who's listening to have the opportunity, to celebrate the stuff that they're excited about because, again, you'll dim your own light. So I'm gonna ask you to-

Scooter Braun 54:42 Such a-

Jay Shetty 54:42 ... brag about what you're doing.

Scooter Braun 54:43 No, so I appreciate that.

Jay Shetty 54:44 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 54:44 But it, it's a w- it's weird 'cause of where I am right now.

Jay Shetty 54:48 Service-based.

Scooter Braun 54:48 Yeah, it... But even service-based, I mean- I am having the most joy out of watching people that I supported have their own wins.

Jay Shetty 55:00 Mm.

Scooter Braun 55:01 Weirdly, that is my biggest joy right now.

Jay Shetty 55:03 Mm.

Scooter Braun 55:04 Watching Justin Bieber take ownership of this album the way he has, ownership of the performances the way he has, ownership of his decision-making the way he has. This is the most hands-on he's ever been in his career. This is the most he's fought to push back on ev- all of us to say, "I got this." And I told him the other day, proud is not the word. I respect it.

Jay Shetty 55:34 Mm.

Scooter Braun 55:35 I respect it so much. I'm so happy to see where Ariana is in her personal life, in her decision-making, in her choosing to face so much trauma she's been through-

Jay Shetty 55:50 Mm

Scooter Braun 55:51 ... publicly, um, and be the person that she is. I'm grateful watching this Demi documentary. Like, I'm blown away by her. You know, I'm-

Jay Shetty 56:01 I can't wait to see it

Scooter Braun 56:01 ... you know, I'm... I- I- Andrew Watt just won producer of the year. I know the year and a half that he's had, and for him to come out the other side and then tell me the Grammy was amazing, but the work I'm doing on myself has been the greatest reward. I mean, I'm really proud of a lot of people in my professional life, and then I'm really proud of the people in my personal life-

Jay Shetty 56:26 Mm

Scooter Braun 56:26 ... because I'm seeing them do the same thing.

Jay Shetty 56:28 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 56:28 So it's weird, like, the accolades for me aren't necessarily the fact that I'm moving the chess pieces. I did that for a really long time.

Jay Shetty 56:39 Mm-hmm.

Scooter Braun 56:40 It's that I'm seeing all these other people who've been around me in my life, and I'm looking over at their chessboard, and I'm admiring their game.

Jay Shetty 56:46 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 56:46 You know? I'm admiring their game, and I'm admiring who they are, and I'm admiring h- who they're showing up to be, and I'm a- I'm just admiring their journey.

Jay Shetty 56:57 Mm.

Scooter Braun 56:57 Um, and I'm not passing judgment.

Scooter Braun 57:00 I'm just enjoying watching. I'm curious.

Jay Shetty 57:02 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 57:02 You know? And to me, the funny thing is, in the last six months since I've let go more, commercially I think I've had more success than I've ever had in my life-

Jay Shetty 57:16 Mm

Scooter Braun 57:16 ... because I'm trusting. And I think there's a weird reward in trusting the universe-

Jay Shetty 57:23 Mm-hmm

Scooter Braun 57:23 ... because I'm, I'm finding that joy. And things have not been easy at times. Um, but I'm leaning into those uneasy times and saying, "Where, what is this resistance?" Like, why am I hurting? What does that really mean? What is there for me to learn there? And I'm doing that as often as I possibly can. That's what I'm celebrating. That's what I'm excited about. I'm getting to a deeper place, and I'm hoping that my friends like you hold me accountable in six months when I start getting out of that-

Jay Shetty 57:57 Yeah

Scooter Braun 57:57 ... and remind me of this and say-

Jay Shetty 57:59 Yeah

Scooter Braun 57:59 ... "Get, are you doing your meditations?"

Jay Shetty 58:01 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 58:01 Have a little, you know, self-compassion, that you've missed a bunch. Get-

Jay Shetty 58:04 Now you're giving me permission to do that. I'll do it.

Scooter Braun 58:05 Yeah, I want that-

Jay Shetty 58:06 Yeah, yeah, I'll do that

Scooter Braun 58:06 ... because I think that's what friends are for, right?

Jay Shetty 58:08 If you give them permission.

Scooter Braun 58:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 58:09 Yeah, yeah.

Scooter Braun 58:09 I, I give you full permission-

Jay Shetty 58:11 Yeah. Yeah, yeah

Scooter Braun 58:11 ... to keep me accountable, to make me continue to learn. The same way I say to my wife-

Jay Shetty 58:15 Yeah

Scooter Braun 58:15 ... "Tell me to get back in my heart." You know? Like, and, and I think we all should be that for each other, but not in a judgmental way.

Jay Shetty 58:24 Yeah. I'll probably reach out and say, "Let's meditate together today."

Scooter Braun 58:27 Yeah, sure.

Jay Shetty 58:27 That's what I'll do-

Scooter Braun 58:28 Sure

Jay Shetty 58:28 ... so that I'm accountable too-

Scooter Braun 58:29 Yeah

Jay Shetty 58:29 ... because yeah, it's, yeah.

Scooter Braun 58:30 But it's-

Jay Shetty 58:31 Yeah

Scooter Braun 58:31 ... I, I, like I said, I've always been grateful for our friendship.

Jay Shetty 58:35 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 58:35 I've been grateful knowing that I have a friend who's as spiritual as you are and enjoys the conversations of spirituality, um, because it allows... You push me, and you inspire me, and I'm grateful for this friendship.

Jay Shetty 58:50 Well, you're the same, man. I, I feel like the way you've opened up today, and, and this is what I'd like... This is what I try and do on this podcast, everyone who's been listening or watching. For me, I like learning about the full human. So when I sit down with someone, I'm not seeing them as an athlete or a manager or a artist or... I'm, I'm seeing you as a complete spiritual being, and I wanna hear that story.

Jay Shetty 59:17 So when you're listening to this, whoever's listening or watching, listen to that story. With every one of our episodes, and this one included as well, because it's so easy to listen to interviews these days, and people pick out the one little thing, and then it, that becomes the meme and the whatever it is, and it's like, but you missed the point of the whole conversation. Like, again, what we've been encouraging for our own selves as well, just as y- if you don't give someone else the permission to have context, we are blocking ourselves from having context of our own self.

Scooter Braun 59:47 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 59:48 And that's the biggest thing I've learned from today, hearing you say it, which reaffirms my belief of the understanding that if you're not giving someone a chance to explain, express, be curious, make mistakes, then you're basically blocking yourself from doing the same thing.

Scooter Braun 1:00:03 I agree.

Jay Shetty 1:00:04 And, and the more permission you give everyone to do that, the more it happens-

Scooter Braun 1:00:06 You gave yourself permission to say, "What was my role?"

Jay Shetty 1:00:08 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:09 I love that.

Scooter Braun 1:00:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:09 What was my role as a good one?

Scooter Braun 1:00:10 'Cause I think that's where it starts. If you can forgive yourself-

Jay Shetty 1:00:13 Yeah

Scooter Braun 1:00:13 ... for something you might not even recognize-

Jay Shetty 1:00:16 Yeah

Scooter Braun 1:00:16 ... then it's much easier.

Jay Shetty 1:00:18 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:18 You asked me what happened earlier, and I, I was thinking about that just now. Like-

Jay Shetty 1:00:22 Mm

Scooter Braun 1:00:22 ... you know, is there a specific thing that happened?

Jay Shetty 1:00:25 No. Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:25 You know what happened? My wife Yael and my children. I learned I love somebody more than me, and loving them made me go do the work. So what happened is they were the greatest gift of my life, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

Jay Shetty 1:00:44 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:44 And I want each of them to have their own individual process and their own individual journey.

Jay Shetty 1:00:48 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:49 You know, and I want them to know that I love them and they're messy.

Jay Shetty 1:00:53 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:00:54 You know? And, and, uh- And I'm just grateful for them. That's it.

Jay Shetty 1:00:59 Yeah. I love that, man. And, and I'm so grateful to you. I wanna say it back to you because, you know, when I've gone through my tough times, you really get to see who's shows up for you, especially when they're a newer friend or someone you're just getting to know. And, and when you've stuck by me and, and supported me, not in a... We've never had a relationship where it's not just like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we're boys." Like, it's not like that. It's v- "Let's look in the mirror. What work have you gotta do? What do you need to work on? What- where are y- what is your role in this?" Like, that friendship, I think, is so special, and then feeling support from that. Again, loving your friends through growth, loving yourself through growth, making sure that you know you need to change, but you love someone through that change. Uh, Scooter, we end every interview with the final five, which are the rapid-fire, fast five questions. So you have to answer in one word or one sentence maximum.

Scooter Braun 1:01:52 Let's go.

Jay Shetty 1:01:52 I am judging you, and if you talk too long this time-

Scooter Braun 1:01:54 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:55 ... and, and I will, and I will ask, I will ask you to expand when I get intrigued.

Scooter Braun 1:01:59 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:01:59 All right, so starting with your first question. You ready? All right. The first question is, what's the best advice you've ever received?

Scooter Braun 1:02:07 Um, David Geffen told me that... Well, first, it's love more, but really, he- w- what comes to mind is David Geffen told me that in 100... If you don't know who he is, look him up. He said, "In 100 years, no one's gonna remember me, so they sure as hell won't remember you. Don't have an ego."

Jay Shetty 1:02:21 [laughs] That's brilliant.

Scooter Braun 1:02:22 And I, I loved it.

Jay Shetty 1:02:23 That is great piece of advice. All right, second question: What's the worst piece of advice you've ever received?

Scooter Braun 1:02:28 I think as a kid you're told it's your fault.

Jay Shetty 1:02:30 Mm.

Scooter Braun 1:02:30 And you start to believe, "Oh, I'm a bad kid. I deserve that."

Jay Shetty 1:02:33 Mm.

Scooter Braun 1:02:34 And, um, I think that was the wrong advice.

Jay Shetty 1:02:37 Beautiful, man. All right, number three: Something that you are pretty sure and confident about, but other people

Jay Shetty 1:02:44 don't quite wrap their head around yet.

Scooter Braun 1:02:47 Um, that Bitcoin will eventually be worth 500,000. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:51 Ooh. You think it's gonna-

Scooter Braun 1:02:53 I think long term-

Jay Shetty 1:02:55 Yeah

Scooter Braun 1:02:55 ... yes, I, I believe in Bitcoin long term. And there's a lot of people that don't believe in it, but I believe in Bitcoin long term.

Jay Shetty 1:03:00 Okay. All right. Well, we didn't even talk about that.

Scooter Braun 1:03:02 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:03:02 So now, Bitcoin followers, which I don't think I have a lot of, uh-

Scooter Braun 1:03:06 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:03:06 ... don't w- we'll figure it out. All right. Uh, quest-

Scooter Braun 1:03:08 We didn't talk any business, which is a lot of fun for me.

Jay Shetty 1:03:11 Yeah?

Scooter Braun 1:03:11 We didn't talk any business. A lot of fun.

Jay Shetty 1:03:12 I did... Because that's not my thing. Like-

Scooter Braun 1:03:14 Well, also, and also, look, you know this. 90% of what I do in business, people don't even know, which is the way I like it.

Jay Shetty 1:03:18 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:03:18 So let's keep going. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:03:19 [laughs] Well, no, for me it was just the reason why we didn't talk about business is because when I started the podcast, it was all about what can I talk to people about that no one else can do.

Scooter Braun 1:03:30 That's also-

Jay Shetty 1:03:31 Right. Yeah

Scooter Braun 1:03:31 ... you and I don't have that relationship, nor should we.

Jay Shetty 1:03:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:03:33 We have a real relationship.

Jay Shetty 1:03:34 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:03:34 It's not about business.

Jay Shetty 1:03:35 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:03:35 It's about the person in front of you.

Jay Shetty 1:03:36 Totally. And, and also just, like, you, you're prolific. You can talk about so many different things in so many different places, but this, we're gonna talk about it. Like, you know, this is something we're gonna talk about, man.

Scooter Braun 1:03:45 Well, it's also fun for me because you have treated me the way I actually wanna treat myself. Like, I told you about the chessboard, of raising my head up and saying, "Hi, nice to meet you. I'm good at this." And I remember one time you called me and you said, "Hey, I don't wanna over-ask, but, like, we're friends, and, you know, I'm trying to think about investing, if you have any advice ever." And that was great because I, I love that. I wanna be able to help a friend. And if I'm good at something, I wanna be able to offer that. But you've always looked across the table and said, "Hi, I'm Jay. Hi, Scott. Scooter." You know, "Nice to meet you."

Jay Shetty 1:04:15 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:04:15 Like, "Let's be friends."

Jay Shetty 1:04:16 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:04:16 And I, that's why I love this conversation.

Jay Shetty 1:04:18 Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:04:18 But sorry, go back to your rapid fire.

Jay Shetty 1:04:19 [laughs]

Scooter Braun 1:04:19 Rapid fire.

Jay Shetty 1:04:20 No, no, no. We got two... Yeah, this is the worst rapid fire-

Scooter Braun 1:04:22 Ever

Jay Shetty 1:04:22 ... guy... Yeah.

Scooter Braun 1:04:23 Let's, let's get back to it

Jay Shetty 1:04:23 ... let's get division. All right. Last two questions, four and five. Um, oh, now, now I'm like, "I've got two questions left for you. What do I ask you?" I know what the fifth one is. Uh-

Scooter Braun 1:04:33 Well, you're gonna have three more, 'cause I've done a poor job with the other ones.

Jay Shetty 1:04:35 No, no, no, no.

Scooter Braun 1:04:36 We'll see if we can go one word.

Jay Shetty 1:04:37 You did a good- No, you've actually given beautiful answers. I, we got distracted at the last one. Number four: Something you once chased and no longer care about.

Scooter Braun 1:04:46 Recognition.

Jay Shetty 1:04:47 And fifth and final question: If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Scooter Braun 1:04:54 Love more.

Jay Shetty 1:04:55 Beautiful. Scooter Braun, thank you, man.

Scooter Braun 1:04:57 Thank you, my friend.

Jay Shetty 1:04:57 This was so special. This is- this goes down as one of the most beautiful open conversations.

Scooter Braun 1:05:03 Well, that's ended right. Scott "Scooter" Braun, 'cause now you know all of me, buddy.

Jay Shetty 1:05:06 S- so now I call you Scott from now on.

Scooter Braun 1:05:07 You can call me Scott, Scooter, whatever you want. But, but now it's, yeah, all of me is here. I wanted to do that. And I, I gotta tell you, I'm so grateful we did this, and I'm so grateful for your friendship. And, uh, I'm just proud of you as a friend for the message that you deliver to the world.

Jay Shetty 1:05:22 Thank you, man. And I'm proud of you for having the courage to always be open and vulnerable and honest and live your truth, and for doing the work when externally you don't need to. Uh, you know, that's the hardest part, when, when actually, like you said, you could convince yourself to not do the work because things are good. Um, but-

Scooter Braun 1:05:40 If we're, if we're breathing, it means we got work to do.

Jay Shetty 1:05:42 Absolutely. Thank you, man.

Scooter Braun 1:05:43 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:05:44 Thank you so much, brother.

Scooter Braun 1:05:44 Love you, buddy.

Jay Shetty 1:05:45 That was awesome, man. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.