The 4 C’s of Self-Trust That Change Everything About Your Love Life!

Jay Shetty 0:00 [camera clicking] What's

Jay Shetty 0:22 the difference between wanting a relationship and being ready for a relationship?

Quinlan Walther 0:26 Mm. One of my favorite ways to frame this, uh, which I think we can all relate to, is you shouldn't go grocery shopping when you're starving.

Jay Shetty 0:34 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 0:34 We don't tend to make the best choices. We grab the first thing we see. We grab all the things that we want, that look exciting, right? Ooh, that'll taste so good. I want this, I want that. Not necessarily what we need. And that, in my opinion, applies to dating and relationships as well. When you go out into the world, you start dating, you're looking for a relationship, you wanna have a pretty solid understanding of what it is that you're looking for. You wanna have a pretty solid understanding of how you love yourself, how you show up for yourself, of the life you wanna create for yourself, the relationship that would be an added bonus to that life that you wanna create, rather than feel like you're trying to fill a void. You end up seeking connections from a place of desperation that, that can't be fulfilling because it's essentially pouring into a bottomless pit of, of trying to fill this, this bottomless void. So in my opinion, asking yourself those questions first, really spending time understanding who you are, what you want, how you can love yourself, how you can support yourself, how you can commit to building a life you like, and the relationship, that could be a bonus. I also wanna add the caveat that it's not as if you have to go hide away, do all of those things [laughs] and then come out and find the relationship. It can, it can happen at pretty much the same time, with the focus being on understanding all the things I just said, who you are, what you want, et cetera, and not go looking for love when you are, uh, metaphorically starving. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:58 I love that truth bomb. That's, that's huge already, that idea that we're constantly looking for love when we're starving, rather than being really, really clear, and being in a healthy sense of hunger.

Quinlan Walther 2:11 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:11 Like, you have an appetite-

Quinlan Walther 2:13 Right

Jay Shetty 2:13 ... but you're not starving, because we all know that when you're starving, you're so spot on. I, I think about all ... I was, I was literally going through all the bad decisions I've made.

Quinlan Walther 2:21 [laughs] At the grocery store.

Jay Shetty 2:23 At the grocery store.

Quinlan Walther 2:23 Staying in.

Jay Shetty 2:23 Or what I eat when I'm starving.

Quinlan Walther 2:25 Yep.

Jay Shetty 2:25 I will pull up at a gas station. I will buy two bags of chips.

Quinlan Walther 2:28 Yep.

Jay Shetty 2:28 You know?

Quinlan Walther 2:29 A Reese's bar.

Jay Shetty 2:29 Yeah, totally.

Quinlan Walther 2:30 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:30 Like, everything that you don't wanna be having.

Quinlan Walther 2:33 Right.

Jay Shetty 2:33 And then on the way home you're regretting it.

Quinlan Walther 2:35 And you love it while you're eating it.

Jay Shetty 2:36 100%.

Quinlan Walther 2:37 It's the best while it's there, right? And it's, "Oh, this is everything that I wanted," and then 10 minutes later, you're probably hungry again, you're probably crashed out from the sugar high, you need a nap, and you feel even more exhausted and still hungry after you're done.

Jay Shetty 2:50 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 2:50 I feel like that just directly applies to the kind of relationships, the kind of connections that we choose when we're, we're acting from that place of starvation, desperation, um, emptiness.

Jay Shetty 3:01 Yeah. And, and the hard part about that is that it's so real today to feel that way, to feel lonely, to feel desperate, to feel not chosen. What do we do with all those emotions, then? Because we're used to running for the quick solve because those emotions are so heavy and hard to sit in. What do you do with all those emotions when you're not getting to just curb your craving by getting some fast food or fast love?

Quinlan Walther 3:27 Build self-trust. Self-trust is imperative for liking who you are, understanding who you are, making decisions that align with who you really wanna be, and of course, that pays off in our relationships. There, there are four C's when it comes to self-trust, in my opinion. First one is curiosity. Are you curious about who you are, why you do what you do, the feelings that you feel, um, your motives and intentions behind the decisions that you make, what you want out of life? Is there curiosity? You can't trust yourself if you don't know yourself, and from curiosity can come comprehension. So it's really important that you lead with curiosity. The second one is capacity, so that's emotional flexibility, emotional stability. Like you, like you just asked, what do we do with these big emotions? You build the capacity to stay anchored in who you are, even when you feel really sad, even when you feel really helpless or hopeless or overwhelmed, angry, frustrated. Can you find an anchor in yourself that you can support yourself through all of those emotions? That's capacity. The third one is compassion. Having humanity for who you are, [laughs] having an understanding that you are a flawed human who makes some poor decisions sometimes, right? And being able to meet yourself with a softness, with a warmth, is imperative, like absolutely paramount. And we're talking a lot about relationships here today. I- if you aren't compassionate with yourself, you'll be far less likely to be compassionate with the people around you and, and your significant other and such. The changes we wanna make don't typically happen from a place of rigidity, blame, shame, judgment. They happen from a place of compassion and support and love. And then finally, the fourth one is commitment. The fourth C is commitment. Your commitment, your devotion to being who you want to be, making decisions that really align with that, and building a life that feels so fulfilling, so good from within. There's no way around it. You can have the first three. If you don't have the commitment to bringing who you want to be to fruition, to building that life, things go astray.

Quinlan Walther 5:34 So you need that fourth one as well.

Jay Shetty 5:35 Oh, I like the four C's.

Quinlan Walther 5:36 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 5:37 Yeah, and they feel like they take a lot of time. I can't imagine doing that in a month-

Quinlan Walther 5:43 Certainly

Jay Shetty 5:43 ... or three months. And like you said, I think, I think our idea around doing work before dating, and you alluded to this in a healthy sense, we kind of at one point started to believe we had to be complete before we met someone.

Quinlan Walther 5:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 5:57 And as someone ... I've been married now for nine years, and with my wife for 12, I-Thought I knew who I was when we met, and that was a good foundation.

Quinlan Walther 6:05 Mm.

Jay Shetty 6:05 But I have discovered so much more about myself and grown so much more in the last 12 years than what I thought. And so this idea that we have to be fully formed, fully complete, fully perfect before we meet someone doesn't really add up.

Quinlan Walther 6:18 I would even [laughs] say any relationship will change you, some for the better, some for the worse, right? If there isn't any change happening in the relationship, you probably aren't actually showing up to it.

Jay Shetty 6:31 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 6:31 And more to your point, when you enter a healthy, safe, loving relationship, it's going to reflect back to you the parts of you that you haven't yet seen, worked on, grown through, grown out of, grown around. But I believe you have to be able to discern what is growth versus what is judgment or a lack of acceptance or an opportunity for, for growth anyway. Because Radhi could come to you and say, "Jay, I'm, I'm really noticing that you haven't been present with me, and I, I miss you. You know? I, I want more time with you." If you don't have the awareness that that's probably coming from a place of love, from a desire to improve your relationship, if you don't have a growth mindset, you'll get defensive, you'll snap back, you won't listen, and you'll drive a wedge even further between the two of you. So I, I, I think you need to practice some of those four C's so that you have the awareness of what growth feels like, what it's like to meet yourself, so that when you're in a relationship that is asking you to grow more, there's already a familiarity there. I do, I do think that's important.

Jay Shetty 7:40 It's so important, but what's so interesting about your sa- what you're saying, and I'm so glad you've gone in that direction, is you're saying relationships take growth and are almost for growth. But we don't get into them wanting that. We get into them wanting pleasure-

Quinlan Walther 7:57 Yeah

Jay Shetty 7:57 ... or joy or relief or companionship.

Quinlan Walther 8:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 8:02 And what you just said is, "Well, no, it's about growth."

Quinlan Walther 8:06 Mm.

Jay Shetty 8:06 Talk to me about that difference between our expectation and why you think relationships are actually about growth.

Quinlan Walther 8:13 As you grow, as you know yourself, like yourself, all the things we talked about, you don't need as much from the relationship itself. You aren't expecting the person that you're with to be a validation machine, to meet you in every way, in every moment, all the time, so perfectly. You can show up and actually allow the other person to meet you in this almost third entity. There's you, the other person, and then the relationship that you create together, and that means I get to bring my insecurities, you get to bring your insecurities. I get to bring my good stuff, you get to bring your good stuff, right? And we meet each other there, and it's, it... The point of a relationship is just to relate to another person, right? To walk alongside them, to be a source of love, encouragement, enthusiasm, and to grow individually in your own right. But I agree with you that I think one of the biggest problems today with people or for people who haven't really taken the time to try and meet themselves, it is, "What can I get? What can I get? I'm not getting enough. I need to get more. This isn't what I wanted," with very little consideration for the other person in this third entity that is the relationship.

Jay Shetty 9:27 It's something that I'm really grappling with as we're talking about it to try and help people shift their perspective. Because we're not saying that it's growth that is growth that you, that brings you pain or stress or-

Quinlan Walther 9:42 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 9:42 ... we're saying it's growth that inspires you to become better and be better.

Quinlan Walther 9:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 9:48 And it may take you a second to make it inspiring for each other.

Quinlan Walther 9:51 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 9:52 So in the start, it may rub you the... So for example, as you said, when Radhi comes up to me at the beginning and says, "Hey, I need you to do this or that," my ego's quite high, and I go, "Well, why don't you do it for yourself?" And then it drives a wedge between us.

Quinlan Walther 10:05 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:05 And then over time, you respect and love so much about this person that you start to go, "Well, wait a minute. Maybe they're saying it from the right place."

Quinlan Walther 10:12 Mm.

Jay Shetty 10:12 Now I've grown to have the ability to recognize that everything she says is from a place of love.

Quinlan Walther 10:17 Mm.

Jay Shetty 10:17 And now maybe I'll be able to receive it, and the third time she says it, I'm almost noticing I've been not present myself. And I can say, "Hey, I haven't been present." And now we're not trying to live in a world where I am always fully present, because that's never gonna happen.

Quinlan Walther 10:30 Mm.

Jay Shetty 10:30 That's not realistic. But it goes from her saying it and me being triggered to her saying it and me being aware, and then me noticing it even before she says it so that I'm actually able to explain why I may not be present. Sometimes I'll say to Radhi, "Hey, you know what? The next week's really intense for me."

Quinlan Walther 10:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 10:48 "I think I'm just gonna be a, a bit less around because I've got some things to focus on, and I just want you to know it's got nothing to do with you," or, "I've just got a lot on right now." And I find that that's really helpful for a relationship.

Quinlan Walther 10:59 And that's emotional safety. Choosing a partner and building a relationship that is based in trust, emotional safety. Your, your ability to see, hear Radhi's take and trust that she's coming from a loving place, not from a critical place, not from a defensive place. That requires emotional stability. That requires emotional safety. So when you choose a partner, look at this in early dating, is y- what is the character of the person that, that you're seeing? How do they treat their friends? How do they treat their family? Are they a person of integrity? Are they typically kind and well-intentioned? Because that's gonna bloom into a relationship with, with, uh, that same character.

Jay Shetty 11:41 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 11:41 Right? Where someone gives you feedback, this person that you're building a relationship with gives you feedback, can you trust that they're well-intentioned in their feedback, that what they're asking for or what they're reflecting back to you is for the greater good of your connection, right? Um, or of simply a request to love them better, to love them in the way that they wanna be loved. And assuming you wanna be a person who does that, assuming you wanna be a person who participates in the emotional safety and the stability, then you're able to hearThat underneath the request or the feedback, et cetera, rather than get defensive. But it ha- it requires trust and it requires emotional safety. Absolutely

Jay Shetty 12:21 Yeah. And, and how do you know the difference between someone's request being inherently good versus unreasonable? Because I imagine when people are dating, they may hear quite often, "Hey, I don't think you're present," or, "You missed my friend's birthday," or, "You missed this, you missed that," and you almost feel like they're not hearing you.

Quinlan Walther 12:39 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 12:40 How do you make sense or decipher between someone's feedback being inherently good and for the relationship versus just being an unreasonable request?

Quinlan Walther 12:51 If there's too much black-and-white thinking, if someone comes to you and says, "You skipped my friend's birthday, you didn't remember that important meeting that I had last week, and you forgot to take out the trash, you must not love me. You don't care about this relationship, and I, I won't stand for it. I won't have it," that's unreasonable. That's, that's ego speaking. That's an insecurity. That's not kind. That's not a loving way [laughs] to communicate or to think. If someone can come to you and hold the nuance there, can see the color, "Hey, you've been really stressed, right? You had a really busy week. You forgot about my meeting. You missed my friend's birthday. You forgot to do the, you forgot to take out the trash like you said that you would. I know you've been busy. Can I help support you in some way? And is there any way that you can make the event next week with me?" It'd be really important, right? So it's, it, being able to hold, "Hey, this hurts. Hey, I see where you're coming from. You're a human with finite capacity [laughs] and I don't expect you to be a, a superhero here," and the relationship is important, right? There's, there's so much color in there. So I think the straightforward answer to your question is if it's black and white, if it's demanding, and if it really only considers one perspective, one side, then you might wanna consider a different approach.

Jay Shetty 14:09 Yeah, and that's really great awareness for ourselves as well.

Quinlan Walther 14:11 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:13 Because [laughs] we don't want everyone else to communicate with us-

Quinlan Walther 14:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:15 ... in an emotionally intelligent way, but then when it comes to us sharing our needs... And I, it's so interesting, when you were saying that, it resonates so deeply. It makes so much sense, and then I go, "Where do people even learn all of this," right? Like, we're doing this podcast so that people can learn and grow, but I'm listening to you going, "I don't know anyone who naturally communicates that way," because they didn't see that in their home.

Quinlan Walther 14:40 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:40 They didn't have that through friends or family. They didn't have any training, of course. And so we all do the other thing, which is, "You always choose yourself. You never show up for me. You don't love me." We, we all do that version.

Quinlan Walther 14:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:54 And so sometimes you're in a relationship with someone and you see that, but then you're like, "But I've been with everyone else, and they-"

Quinlan Walther 15:00 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 15:00 "... you know, they're worse than you."

Quinlan Walther 15:02 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 15:02 "So I guess this is it."

Quinlan Walther 15:04 You hear all the time love is consideration, right? Love is an action. Love is consideration. Yes, but not consideration beyond someone's capacity, right? People can only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves. They can only meet you, um, given whatever, whatever em- emotional resources they have available to them at any given time. And where we get stuck is expecting someone to anticipate and meet our needs all the time, uncommunicated, and then there's this devastating disappointment when they don't, when they don't show up the way that we want them to. That's not a lack of love. That's dependency.

Jay Shetty 15:44 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 15:44 That's a parent-child dynamic. Not having to ask, having all your needs tended to without a, you know, any forewarning or insight. That's not an adult-adult partnership. So you, you have to consider the kind of relationship you want to build, and the partner you wanna be is the other half of that because I'm assuming it's someone who is patient, who is willing to see the, the limited resources that someone has available at some time, right? Can, can tolerate a certain amount of disappointment when you aren't met in the ways that you wanna be met, someone who's loving and warm in their communication and their understanding. When you know you want to be those things, then you can start practicing. Even if it wasn't shown to you, you can take stock of where you aren't showing up in those ways, where you can be a little bit better at showing up in those ways. But I really, really think it starts with accountability first. Take a look at your side of the street. When you've taken a look at your side of the street, if you're in a relationship-

Jay Shetty 16:44 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 16:44 ... then bring it to conversation, right? Like, "Hey, let's co-create this thing together."

Jay Shetty 16:48 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 16:48 "How can we do this together?"

Jay Shetty 16:49 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 16:50 I think that's the way.

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Jay Shetty 18:35 so many people right now, I'm sure you hear it all the time, are burnt out and exhausted with dating. They're just tired of dating, and they've either developed mindsets like, "There's no good men left."

Quinlan Walther 18:47 Mm.

Jay Shetty 18:48 "All the good men are taken." "Oh, you know, well, she's not quite right." Whatever it may be, right? Everyone has their version, but e- people are exhausted with dating.

Quinlan Walther 18:57 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 18:57 We talked about what happens when you go out there starving. What do you do when you feel exhausted?

Quinlan Walther 19:03 Well, you have two options. Number one, you can stop. [laughs] You can not date. That's an option. Take a breather. It doesn't have to be a full-time job. It doesn't have to feel like a full-time job. It's good to focus on other things. Or you can shift your expectations, not needing to walk into every first date as if you're interviewing for your future spouse, for the position of your future spouse. Like, such high stakes, such high pressure. Can you go in and try to have fun? You know, can, can you change the, the energy that you wanna bring to the room, where you're just meeting someone new? You're gonna go grab some dinner, you're gonna go grab coffee, you're gonna go grab drinks, whatever it is. Can I enjoy myself? Can I have fun with it? And deciding the energy you want to bring to the function typically allows you to enjoy the function more-

Jay Shetty 19:54 Mm

Quinlan Walther 19:55 ... rather than feeling like, "Okay, here we go again, another disappointment," you know, "Another letdown, another waste of time." Don't do anything with that, with that mentality, with that energy or attitude. Um, so you can either stop or shift your energy, shift your perspective. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:09 Yeah. I was speaking to a friend the other day, and she was saying, she goes, she said to me, "I just wish men realized how long it takes a girl to get ready."

Quinlan Walther 20:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:17 And she was like, "I got ready."

Quinlan Walther 20:19 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:20 She was like, "I looked real cute."

Quinlan Walther 20:21 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:22 And she was like, "He didn't say anything."

Quinlan Walther 20:24 Oh.

Jay Shetty 20:24 She was like, this guy that she went on a first date with, she said, "He didn't say I looked lovely. He didn't say-"

Quinlan Walther 20:29 Mm.

Jay Shetty 20:29 "... it was nice to see me. He didn't say it was lovely." He was just, she was just like, "I didn't feel like he-"

Quinlan Walther 20:35 What a bummer.

Jay Shetty 20:36 Yeah, and she was so let down, and she was just like, "I, I really put effort into how I, you know, got ready. I was excited about it."

Quinlan Walther 20:43 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:43 And it just felt like it wasn't just that he didn't notice her visually. It was ... She was like, "The conversation didn't go either." But I can imagine that that kinda feeling repetitively gets tiring.

Quinlan Walther 20:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:54 But at the same time, you're so right that it gets tiring when there's really high stakes on it every time.

Quinlan Walther 21:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 21:02 And it being perfect or being the one or being the moment.

Quinlan Walther 21:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 21:05 It's almost like, it's almost like you made it, you made it harder for yourself by going out wanting it to be the night.

Quinlan Walther 21:15 Yes.

Jay Shetty 21:16 Whereas if you'd just gone out, and even if you did put in all that effort and everything, but you like that about yourself.

Quinlan Walther 21:21 And if you had fun, right? I, I'm a girl, I love getting re- I love my two-hour long process of getting ready for an event, and the, you know, the music's playing, the vibe is good. That's fun. I enjoy that.

Jay Shetty 21:32 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 21:32 I enjoy that, so I do it more. I do it when I, when I want to. It's, it's a process that I, I want to engage in. I also think I, I'd like to start a petition to bring back flirting-

Jay Shetty 21:44 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 21:45 ... i- in general. [laughs] Like, I, I think we, we've lost the art of flirting, 'cause flirting is fun. And not flirting that has to lead to anything.

Jay Shetty 21:52 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 21:53 Not fl- you f- you find someone attractive, there's a little bit of chemistry, you share a five-minute conversation, it's flirty and it's fun, and it can end there.

Jay Shetty 22:00 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 22:01 It can end there. You show up to a first date. Can I tap into that, you know, the, the back and forth, the banter, the fun, the chemistry with no strings attached, just for the, the sake of connection and fun?

Jay Shetty 22:13 Mm. Mm. Yeah, I-

Quinlan Walther 22:14 I don't know how we'll start that, but [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:16 [laughs] We're gonna figure it out. Bring flirting back.

Quinlan Walther 22:19 We'll start a petition.

Jay Shetty 22:19 Bring, bring flirting back.

Quinlan Walther 22:20 Yes, bring back flirting. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:21 Yeah. I wonder... I, I feel like it's disappeared mostly because people aren't used to speaking in person in the time that things are flirty, so most of the flirting happens over message.

Quinlan Walther 22:30 Yes.

Jay Shetty 22:30 And then by the time you get in front of each other, you have to have a real conversation, which is kind of like a hard shift to go from flirting on the phone to, you know, through text to them being interesting in person.

Quinlan Walther 22:40 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 22:41 So yeah.

Quinlan Walther 22:41 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 22:42 Do you, do you believe the spark is real, and does it matter?

Quinlan Walther 22:47 Absolutely. Spark is real, and it matters, but it changes, and it fades, and it grows in other, in other instances. I, I, I think you need to feel an immediate attraction to someone that you are romantically interested in. That doesn't mean you are flooded, overwhelmed, like, hot and sweaty, c- can't, can't catch your breath. You're ... Just doesn't have to be that. But you do need to think, "I'd like to be a little closer to them."

Jay Shetty 23:16 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 23:16 "Scooch my chair a little bit cl- You know, I have to figure out a way to, to talk to them," you know? But that's, that's not to say that connection and intimacy and attraction can't grow over time. They absolutely do, especially for women. Especially for women. But you, you should find the person that you're dating attractive, and there should be a spark of, "Yes, I wanna be physically closer to them, but I also wanna know more about them."

Jay Shetty 23:40 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 23:40 "There's some magic here. There's some, some something, something to work with," I think there has to be. But as you get to know a person, as the novelty wears off, that spark will change, and that's okay.

Jay Shetty 23:55 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 23:55 I don't think we need to discount anyone if there isn't some immediate firework, and we should prepare for that spark to change if you plan on, on starting a long-term relationship.

Jay Shetty 24:05 Yeah. When, when can the spark mislead us? How does it mislead us?

Quinlan Walther 24:08 When it feels like you're on a rollercoaster, when you find yourself pining for someone. There's a ... I, I like to say we only obsess over people who aren't fully available to us, and that spark can really be mistaken, or the obsession can be mistaken for a spark, where there's something we're projecting onto someone that is so full-on it feels like an obsession. And-There's this, this gap between who they are and who they could be. The relationship that you could have and the relationship that you actually have. And that gap in between is a reflection of who you would get to be and how you would get to feel if the fantasy became a reality.

Jay Shetty 24:52 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 24:53 And that can feel like a spark, can feel like a deep, overwhelming obsession. Anyone who's, who's been through this knows how all-consuming it can be. Um, but when we're projecting a fantasy onto someone, that spark can, can take us away into a whole other world.

Jay Shetty 25:10 Yeah, I fully agree. And, and it's so hard because when you're doing that, you don't even know you're doing it.

Quinlan Walther 25:15 Nope. Nope. It's, um, typically not at first. If y- you experience it enough [laughs] times, right, is it'll be a pattern. It's probably happened. If it's happened once, it'll probably happen again, unless you catch it, because you shouldn't feel like you're falling off a cliff, right? You shouldn't feel like a free fall

Quinlan Walther 25:35 of, of adrenaline and anxiety. You should be excited to see someone, excited to, to be around them, to, to get to know them, but it should not feel like the, the ground falls from underneath you-

Jay Shetty 25:49 Mm

Quinlan Walther 25:49 ... um, when you're with them or not near them or uncertain about what's going to happen.

Jay Shetty 25:53 What's the difference between chemistry and compatibility, and what's more important over time?

Quinlan Walther 26:00 I think compatibility in terms of shared values and visions of the future. People often mistake compatibility for similarity in all aspects, right? I need to find someone who likes the same movies I like, listens to the same music, prefers to eat all the same foods that I do, goes to sleep at the same time. Right? You don't need a, an identical copy of you. In fact, that would probably drive you crazy. What I think compatibil- compatibility really boils down to in a more important sense is how do you value your time, attention, and energy when it comes to the most important things in your life? If you are someone who values family, you want children one day, you wanna be married, you want a long-term partnership with love, honesty, trust, all those things, you need to find someone who values family, kids, being married, um, prioritizing the family above just their own innate desires.

Jay Shetty 26:57 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 26:57 Right? You ha- those values have to align, otherwise you're headed for a disaster. Same thing with visions of the future. If you start dating someone who wants to live out of a van and travel around the country and wants to kind of have this nomadic life, a- and you wanna l- live two blocks away from your parents at, you know, in, in Iowa and forever, and that- that's home for you, I love that for both of you. You're probably not meant to be together.

Jay Shetty 27:24 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 27:24 That'll be a really contentious relationship. I, I like to say don't order what's not on the menu [laughs] when you meet someone. [laughs] If they say work is their most important priority, that's their top value, don't get into a relationship expecting to change that about someone. It's not fair to them. It's not fair to you. That's compatibility. Chemistry, in my opinion, boils down to the magic that you feel just being around someone.

Jay Shetty 27:55 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 27:56 It can f- it's almost palpable. There's ... Whether that's a quiet intimacy, like a soft intimacy, you're pulled towards each other, whether it's banter and wit, have a similar sense of humor, whether it is sh- physical attraction, you just wanna jump their bones and you can't help but kiss them and all the things, that to me is chemistry. And you want, you want that. But chemistry won't build the long-term relationship, the long-term partnership that some people want. Not everyone. Some people don't,

Quinlan Walther 28:29 but ...

Jay Shetty 28:30 I loved your distinction between compatibility and similarity.

Quinlan Walther 28:35 Mm.

Jay Shetty 28:36 Because I think that's, to me, that's the real hurdle for people. Because I, I talk about this, where me and my wife are just completely the opposite people in terms of we don't have a lot in common when it comes to likes and dislikes and things like that. But from a values and vision point of view, we respect, and we don't even have the directly the same values and vision, but we respect each other so much that it allows for a healthy relationship. So my purpose, my work is my number one priority, and my wife's is her family. But I love when she spends time with her family, and she loves seeing me pursue my purpose, and therefore, there isn't conflict. Whereas, if she said, "Jay, you have to give up your purpose to be with my family," or if I said, "Well, you've gotta give up your family to spend time with my purpose," that wouldn't work for us.

Quinlan Walther 29:25 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:25 And I find that to be a really common thing I hear from people, where the biggest mistake you can make in a relationship is one of you wants the other person to change for them.

Quinlan Walther 29:36 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:36 And the other person doesn't want you to change at all.

Quinlan Walther 29:39 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:39 And the truth is, you're both gonna change, but not in the ways the other person wants you to.

Quinlan Walther 29:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:45 You're just gonna be- become who you are gonna become. And it's so interesting to me that I meet so many people who almost want their partner to play a very specific role in their life, not realizing that that human is evolving, growing, and shifting themselves and is unlikely to do that.

Quinlan Walther 30:02 There's a real opportunity to see beyond ourselves if we find, find that dynamic at play, where I need them to show up in this way. They need to be just so. That's black-and-white thinking.

Jay Shetty 30:16 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 30:17 That's ... Right? It's, it's limiting to you, it's limiting to the other person, and it's limiting to the relationship. That's the ... And that's hard to accept because if you're outsourcing all of your needs, desires, and wants onto another person, you're going to be disappointed. And if you expect to be met in all the ways you wanna be met all the time, you're going to be disappointed. There has to be a bit of accountability there.

Jay Shetty 30:41 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 30:41 Where am I-Not taking care of myself. Where am I not pursuing what I really want to spend my time, attention, and energy on? That's ... There's probably a, a bit of that that's lacking. Because if you expect someone else to do it for you, to change in all the ways you want, that's a, that's a self-centered view.

Jay Shetty 31:01 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 31:02 And you can at the very least consider how important is everything that I'm asking for right now? Could I live without this and still be okay, and still be happy? Maybe it's a season. Maybe it's just a season. People think love is supposed to carry them through decades and decades of relationship. Just love, just the feeling, that it should be peaceful and restful all of the time. Sometimes it's work. Some seasons are work, where, "Hey, I really want this," and they say, "I really don't." And your top value is your commitment to each other, then you're gonna figure it out, and that's probably gonna be a stormy season. But no one really likes hearing that.

Jay Shetty 31:41 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 31:42 Because it means we have to tolerate some disappointment and take some accountability, which doesn't always feel very good.

Jay Shetty 31:47 Is love enough?

Quinlan Walther 31:50 Love the feeling or love the action?

Jay Shetty 31:52 You tell me.

Quinlan Walther 31:53 Love the action is. Because love as an action is willingness, willingness to find the color, the nuance, the balance, willingness to learn to love someone how they want to be loved, willingness to show up and be loving when you feel the least loving. You know, people say, "I would die for my partner. I love them more than anything in this world. I would literally lay down and die for them." Okay, but would you put your phone down when they're telling you about your day? Do you take their hand when you're walking down the sidewalk with them? Do you notice when they come home from work and their mood is a little off? Do you take the time to stop and ask them about it, to remember the little things that they tell you, to care? That's love. That's love as an action. That's what keeps connection. Love as a feeling will be fleeting if we don't follow it, f- follow it through, follow it up with action.

Jay Shetty 32:53 Mm. So there is a difference between love the feeling and love the action.

Quinlan Walther 32:57 I think so. Do you?

Jay Shetty 32:58 Yeah, no, I agree.

Quinlan Walther 32:59 What's your take? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:59 I agree. No, I never thought about it like that. I think love the action requires so much more emotional intelligence and maturity than love the feeling. I think I was in love when I was 16.

Quinlan Walther 33:12 All the time.

Jay Shetty 33:13 And-

Quinlan Walther 33:13 Yes, yep

Jay Shetty 33:14 ... all the time.

Quinlan Walther 33:14 Yep, all the time.

Jay Shetty 33:15 And I did not back that up with actions. I think going back to the piece about people changing, I think people change for people because they're so scared that that person has so many options. So I'd rather change to be everything you want me to be so that you don't leave me to find someone else. But in that process, I'll become someone I don't even recognize because I didn't want to become that person at all. And now you'll leave me anyway because you can tell I'm not really authentically that person. So it almost hurts twice. One in unbecoming yourself, and then in losing the other person anyway because you didn't become who they needed you to be. So many people today feel like there's plenty of fish in the sea. There's so many options.

Jay Shetty 34:05 What do you do when you meet someone, you like them, but you can tell that they have some detachment because they have this idea that there's plenty of fish in the sea?

Quinlan Walther 34:14 Mm.

Jay Shetty 34:14 And you're trying to hold onto them. You can tell you're trying to hold onto them, knowing that they might ultimately let you go anyway.

Quinlan Walther 34:22 Do you value commitment? Do you value someone who also knows what they want? If you have a, if you have a clear vision of the kind of relationship you want, the way you want your relationship to feel: consistent, reliable, warm, fun, the playful. When you understand that, becomes a lot easier to discern who's for you and who's not. Someone who's still worried about all the other fish in the sea, who's easily distracted, who t- catches ... that catches their eye, that catches their eye, and you feel like you have to control them. If it feels like you have to control them, it's not love, and you can't build a relationship, a fulfilling relationship from that place. So if you notice that they don't value the same things you do, they don't value commitment in the same ways, then they're probably not for you. Because the last thing you wanna do is chase after them, try and convince them to want the same things that you want and, "Please, I'll show you how good it'll be if you'll just choose me." Then you end up losing yourself in a, in the very ways that you're trying to avoid in the first place.

Jay Shetty 35:25 Mm. It's always hard. I always find that we're willing to tolerate bad behavior from someone we're really into-

Quinlan Walther 35:32 Mm

Jay Shetty 35:32 ... versus someone we're kind of into.

Quinlan Walther 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:34 And so when we say we want reliability, if the person we're really into doesn't message back, we'll be patient. But if someone we're kind of into doesn't message back, we're like, "Oh, red flag."

Quinlan Walther 35:45 That was me. That was ... I mean, that was, that was a childhood, childhood wound of am I lovable? Am I difficult to love? Who do I have to become to get someone to choose me to pay attention to me, right? So ooh, you kinda like me? You kind of are interested? You kind of pay enough attention? I'm gonna get the other 50% of that attention from you. I'm gonna earn it. I'm gonna tolerate the hurt, the disrespect, because you're giving me a little bit of what I want, and I'm gonna prove it. And then I'd get into relationships, fully chosen, stable love, very good people, and I'd test them. "No, you don't. You're ... Mm-mm. I'm gonna show you that I can rebel against this. I'm gonna show you that I'm hard to love so that then I can come back and earn it again." That is an [scoffs] that is a childhood wound that doesn't heal until you take accountability for it. It wasn't until I realized the pattern at play, and I got sick of my own shit. I got sick of the same hurt, the same anxiety, the s- the same cycle. It's like I don't want this.And then I took accountability and realized that the stability and the love that I was looking for was going to require me to make value-based decisions first and foremost, and really show up and support myself and soothe myself. When I wanted to run or when I wanted to beg or when I wanted to, to react, I had to learn to respond. S- little ins- little tidbit about me. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 37:17 I was gonna ask you, what, what did... How bad did it have to get for you to take accountability?

Quinlan Walther 37:23 I really lost myself chasing the feeling of being chosen. Had given up on dreams, lost all confidence, tolerated just the worst possible behavior. Just was a shell of myself, really and truly. And when you reach that, that level, when, essentially rock bottom, you either have to pull yourself out, or you realize how deep and dark it'll feel until you find the courage. And you don't wanna live like that. I didn't wanna live like that. I knew that there was an option, and I knew it was gonna be hard, and I knew that it was [laughs] gonna take a hell of a lot of time, uh, attention, understanding, patience for myself. But one of the best things, one of the best things I've ever done. A big piece of what actually got me into this work, quite frankly.

Jay Shetty 38:15 Mm. Tell me about that.

Quinlan Walther 38:17 The pattern I was just talking about, you know, choose me, see me, what can I do to earn your attention? That primarily came from my mother. And my mother died of cancer, um, back in 2019. And there was something about her death that was so devastating and yet so healing because of the a- the way we were able to repair before she passed. So we ha- we got to have these conversations, pe- peel back. We, we're so honest, so honest. And the safety and space it created, feeling seen and chosen and loved in such a way, even though it was the end. There was something about that moment, and obviously the journey of grief that came after that, that changed me to my core. And this was all happening around the same time, the, the feeling like I was at rock bottom, the, the death of my mother. There was so much going on there, where I realized that I was looking for evidence to confirm or deny the beliefs that I had learned in this mother-daughter dynamic growing up, that I was hard to love, that I was difficult to love, that I needed to fight to be chosen. I was looking for evidence to confirm that everywhere, and it felt awful. It felt awful. So there was a bit of the love and support and honesty that I was able to find in these conversations with my mother, and then the work that I did after she passed to learn to show up for myself and no longer tolerate those beliefs, no longer take those beliefs as fact. And that was really where, where the work was. That's where the work came

Quinlan Walther 40:12 from.

Jay Shetty 40:13 First of all, sorry for your loss, 'cause sh- it sounds like a really difficult time through everything that you just mentioned. And at the same time, my question is, how useful was it to repair with her? And could more of us heal our relationships with our future partners by repairing our relationships with our parents in any way?

Quinlan Walther 40:47 If you have the option. If you have the option, it's worth a try. But you don't need to.

Jay Shetty 40:55 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 40:57 You don't need to. And I, I was so blessed and so lucky to be able to, number one, have the time before she passed, because she was sick. Um, but for her to also have an open heart and an open mind to meet me there.

Jay Shetty 41:10 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 41:11 I know that that's, that's not a luxury that everyone, everyone gets. And that's really hard.

Jay Shetty 41:17 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 41:17 If anyone can relate to that, I, I just want to acknowledge how-- There's a grief in and of that.

Jay Shetty 41:22 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 41:22 You know? That you, that you don't have s- a parent that will meet you in such a way. You don't have a person of such importance that will meet you, meet you there. But there absolutely is a process of s- a similar strategy I just explained that you can do on your own.

Jay Shetty 41:39 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 41:40 Which is meeting yourself in the ways you wish that parent would meet you. What, what do you wish they would say? What do you wish they would validate about you? Because my guess is what you wish they would validate about you are the same things you bring into those romantic relationships.

Jay Shetty 41:56 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 41:56 "I wish you would accept me. I wish you would just love-- I wish you would look at me and say, 'I'm so proud of you. I see you.'" There's probably a few flavors of that that show up in, in your conflict with your romantic partner, right? And if you're with someone who is safe and loving and patient romantically, you're, uh... You can have some of these conversations with them. "Hey, I feel this way." You know? Maybe it came from Mom or Dad, maybe it didn't. But communicating that, sharing that, that's how we grow in relationship, is by bringing these beliefs. "Hey, what I'm feeling is this. What I'm hearing in this conversation, I heard you just say that you don't love me and you don't care about this relationship." And they look at you like-

Jay Shetty 42:38 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 42:39 "I just told you that, that I, that I was gonna be home two hours late. What are you... I didn't... The wh- what?" Right? That's-- And that's where the understanding and the healing and the reprogramming really comes from. But it takes a hell of a lot of vulnerability.

Jay Shetty 42:52 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 42:52 That's not always comfortable, but it's always worth it.

Jay Shetty 42:55 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 42:56 Always.

Jay Shetty 42:56 Yeah. One of my early experiences of love was-I was over-loved, and then I was made to feel guilty for not reciprocating back at that level. And so when I first started dating my wife, I would do exactly the same. I would over-love and then guilt her for not-

Quinlan Walther 43:14 Mm

Jay Shetty 43:15 ... loving me in the same amount back.

Quinlan Walther 43:18 Scoreboard.

Jay Shetty 43:19 Totally. And her reaction was very human and eventually helpful because I love her and there were so many other things that were so worthy of love, that her reaction was just she pulled away because she didn't understand. Because at one point she'd be like, "Well, I didn't ask for you to over-love me." And then she'd be like, "But I am loving you, just not exactly perfectly in the way that you're saying it." Like, and because I believed her and because I believed there was truth to it, I remember the moment the penny dropped for me where I was like, "Oh my gosh, like this is exactly me repeating a pattern."

Quinlan Walther 43:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:59 No wonder no one wants to... And I saw my sister do the same, and I just, I just noticed how like that was how we were trained to love. And I remember the moment I realized that, and I could find all these other patterns in how I loved my wife in a unhealthy way, it just transformed our entire relationship.

Quinlan Walther 44:18 Mm.

Jay Shetty 44:18 Because now there weren't, there wasn't any of that. And it's so funny because I felt so righteous in that belief at the time, that I was like, "I must be right. Of course I'm right. I'm the one who's doing everything."

Quinlan Walther 44:30 Where did it turn?

Jay Shetty 44:32 What do you mean?

Quinlan Walther 44:32 Where, your realization, when did it... Was it something she said? Was it-

Jay Shetty 44:36 Well, it was, it was her pulling away.

Quinlan Walther 44:38 Mm.

Jay Shetty 44:38 And it was almost like it kind of made the scoreboard not work.

Quinlan Walther 44:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 44:43 Because in my relationship with love, if someone did that to me, I just turned up how they wanted me to turn up.

Quinlan Walther 44:48 But what was the thing that helped you realize that it was a, a personal pattern, the, the accountability of, "Oh, shit, that's my stuff to own"?

Jay Shetty 44:57 I think it w- it ended up, if I-- because it was so long ago now, I, I believe it was probably, uh, ended up being a conversation-

Quinlan Walther 45:03 Mm

Jay Shetty 45:03 ... where I think my wife said something to me like, "I just don't know what I could ever do to make you happy." Like, I'm like, "I just don't know, like even if I did this and I did this and I did that, I don't even know if it would ever be enough."

Quinlan Walther 45:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 45:20 And I think when she said that to me and I thought about it, I was like, "Yeah, I think she's right. I don't think it would have." Even if she did all those things that I said I wanted-

Quinlan Walther 45:30 Yes

Jay Shetty 45:31 ... or thought back, it would never be enough because I'd just find something else. And when I also started to realize that when I went above and beyond for her, it was never because she asked for it or wanted it, or even one of the things I went above and beyond for, so that was also self-inflicted. And actually, if I was more present and aware, then maybe I'd meet her with where she wants and what she wants.

Quinlan Walther 45:54 Almost like you, almost so like you could get love.

Jay Shetty 45:58 Correct. Absolutely.

Quinlan Walther 45:59 Mm.

Jay Shetty 45:59 That I felt I had to earn it, and-

Quinlan Walther 46:01 Mm

Jay Shetty 46:01 ... so you're giving a lot, thinking that's how you get love, not realizing love was in the every day, and the little things, and the beautiful things, and the, you know, the things that are there. And then, and then there was another conversation that we had, this was a few years later, that was really illuminating, was I said to her, "I feel like I'm always planning our vacations, and I do all the planning and the detail and everything, and it's almost like I don't feel like I get the break." And she was like, "I'm more than happy to plan it," but the difference is she was like, "When you plan something, I'll happily do whatever you plan. But when I plan something, you'll have 100 things you'll find wrong with it, and you'll be unhappy about it." And that really hit me because I was like, "God, she's so right." Like, that's exactly what I would do. I would, I would be upset at the schedule and the timeline and everything because I have a viewpoint on how it should be done.

Quinlan Walther 46:53 Yep.

Jay Shetty 46:53 And therefore she allows me to plan it because she knows I'll be happier that way on both accounts. But so it's so interesting how so much of it is self-inflicted, because I, I found the more, the more I take responsibility for how I need to change and the more she takes responsibility for how she needs to change, the better our relationship gets, rather than her telling me how I need to change and me telling her how she needs to change.

Quinlan Walther 47:14 Well, and what a common... I, I call it the criticism and withdrawal loop. One person says, "I want more." The other person says, "Why is nothing that I do ever enough?" And that can quickly spiral.

Jay Shetty 47:26 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 47:27 Taking your, taking your story, for example, "Hey, I always plan these things. I would love it if, if you would plan the vacations more."

Jay Shetty 47:35 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 47:36 She could easily say, "I, I, I threw out this idea last time and you shut me down, and I tried to throw out this idea before and, and you won't go for it. Nothing I ever do is n- Where do you want me to go with this?"

Jay Shetty 47:47 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 47:47 And it turns into this spiral, and then after that there's a withdrawal or the criticism gets louder. "I told you, you didn't plan this last vacation, and you know what? You haven't planned any date nights either. It all falls on me." What's really being communicated is, "Hey, can, can I share this mental load? Can I... C- Can we share in, in the emotional labor here a little bit?"

Jay Shetty 48:07 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 48:08 "I, can you show up and can you help? Can I get some support?"

Jay Shetty 48:12 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 48:12 "Can I feel your connection?" Right? "That would mean a lot to me, and I'm a little overwhelmed."

Jay Shetty 48:18 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 48:18 "I feel like I can't quite find the right words or the right thing, and n- it feels like you don't accept me, like you don't... Like nothing I do is valued."

Jay Shetty 48:28 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 48:29 Same, same driving intention, very different ways to approach-

Jay Shetty 48:33 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 48:33 ... the conversation.

Jay Shetty 48:34 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 48:35 Right? So our ability to understand why something is bothering us-

Jay Shetty 48:40 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 48:41 ... and communicate that is paramount.

Jay Shetty 48:43 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 48:44 In addition, being able to listen in for the intention, even if your partner can't explicitly communicate it, is also really important.

Jay Shetty 48:52 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 48:52 Maybe you and Radhi can give everyone, um, a master class in [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:56 No, I, I, I think we, we, we both generally just... You know, it's been... I think for us generally, there've been very healthy conversations because we both have a-... similar understanding of not raising voices, not getting angry. Like, we, we both have a good set of rules that I think we set early on what we wanted conflict to look like or disagreements to look like

Quinlan Walther 49:18 Did you know to pick someone with such a temperament? Was it apparent when you first met each other, or was that something that was communicated or happened just coincidentally?

Jay Shetty 49:30 I think I got lucky at the start, and then became more conscious of as we got more serious, and have become even more grateful as years have gone by.

Quinlan Walther 49:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 49:42 And so I think there was a bit of luck in the beginning, and then-

Quinlan Walther 49:45 And maybe you were even-

Jay Shetty 49:46 ... then consciously developing it

Quinlan Walther 49:47 ... naturally drawn to her temperament maybe-

Jay Shetty 49:50 For sure, for sure

Quinlan Walther 49:51 ... back in that way.

Jay Shetty 49:52 Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely that. There was a natural draw, but it was an unconscious-

Quinlan Walther 49:55 Mm

Jay Shetty 49:56 ... experience in the beginning, then it became more conscious and focused and developed. And I always think that. It's like you, you can get a lot of things right without not know- without knowing.

Quinlan Walther 50:05 Mm.

Jay Shetty 50:05 But then once you know, it's good to focus on [laughs] getting them better.

Quinlan Walther 50:08 Yes.

Jay Shetty 50:08 Um, but I wanted to ask you this question. You say ... One of my favorite things that you say, you said in a video that you can tell how much you love yourself by the partner that you've chosen. Tell me about that.

Quinlan Walther 50:20 Well, I pose it as a question, because if you hear someone say, in, in the video I think you're referring to, s- how would you feel if someone said that they can tell how much you love yourself by the partner that you've chosen? Does that feel like a compliment or an insult?

Jay Shetty 50:40 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 50:41 And what it, that really distills down to, I'm not passing a judgment on your relationship, but the way you feel about that question can offer a lot of insight. Have you tolerated treatment that really, really doesn't feel great?

Jay Shetty 50:59 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 50:59 It doesn't really feel loving. It's not what someone would put up with if they loved themselves. Or, man, I've chosen a really patient, loving, incredible person. You know, some part of me must like myself enough to choose someone who loves me in such a way. It's really, really most- mostly about reflection.

Jay Shetty 51:19 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 51:20 What is it that we're choosing, and am I, am I making decisions, building relationships, investing in relationships that reflect love, love for myself, and a- and back to the values?

Jay Shetty 51:32 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 51:33 Do you know? Am I making decision based on my values, or am I stagnant? Am I complacent? Am I participating in this, this negative dynamic as well? It's really about reflection-

Jay Shetty 51:46 Mm

Quinlan Walther 51:46 ... and seeing what comes up for people.

Jay Shetty 51:48 Yeah. It's a great reflection, such a great question, and it's a great way, if you're dating right now, to really make the right shifts and changes.

Quinlan Walther 51:57 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 51:58 And, and if you're married and you feel like you made the wrong decision, what would you do? If someone's listening to that and they're going, "Oof," like I'm listening to you right now, Q, and that, that feels tough because my partner's not present. I don't ... I know they love me, but, you know, I'm not sure we ... I think we lost it somewhere along the way. What would you say to them?

Quinlan Walther 52:23 I love that distinction too. I s- I say dating is [laughs] dating is about discernment. Marriage is about devotion.

Jay Shetty 52:30 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 52:31 Not the other way around.

Jay Shetty 52:32 Say that again.

Quinlan Walther 52:33 Dating is about discernment, not devotion. Devotion is to be saved for marriage or long-term relationships, long-term partnerships. That's important as you're making decisions. But what I would say to someone who's realizing that maybe their relationship dynamic is not as loving as they would want it to be, first things first, take a look at your side of the street. That doesn't mean-

Jay Shetty 53:01 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 53:01 That doesn't mean it's your fault. This is not a blame game, but if you envision the kind of relationship you want with this, this, with your husband, with your wife, with your partner, what does it consist of and how can you add more of that now? How can you be the first to add, to try? How can you show up as the partner you want to be? Where's the appreciation for the ways that they are making effort? It's really easy to get sucked into the, into a, a disappointment spiral. Like, you go down the rabbit hole and all you can see are the things that they aren't doing, the things they're doing wrong-

Jay Shetty 53:36 Mm

Quinlan Walther 53:36 ... the ways that they aren't showing up. Pull yourself out of that.

Jay Shetty 53:39 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 53:40 If you want your relationship to work, you have to pull yourself out of that.

Jay Shetty 53:44 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 53:44 Even if you choose to leave, d- don't choose to leave in the bottom of the disappointment spiral. Anyway.

Jay Shetty 53:49 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 53:49 You cle- clean up your side of the street-

Jay Shetty 53:52 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 53:52 ... and go first.

Jay Shetty 53:53 Great advice, yeah.

Quinlan Walther 53:54 That's what I would say. The follow-up to that is have a conversation with your spouse. "Hey, I want more of this because I love you. I feel really distant. I feel really lonely. We both have a lot going on. Can we come up with a plan to reconnect? What do you want more of? Here's what I want more of. Can we get on board?" It doesn't have to be, uh, so humdrum, you know, negati- "Ugh, we have to fix this." It can be an exciting thing if you want it to be and if you come with the right energy.

Jay Shetty 54:25 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 54:25 And if it is the right person, then they'll at least try to meet you there.

Jay Shetty 54:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 54:31 What's the difference between keeping someone accountable and trying to change them?

Quinlan Walther 54:36 I don't think you can keep people accountable.

Jay Shetty 54:38 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 54:38 I don't really believe that it's possible.

Jay Shetty 54:41 Or hold someone accountable.

Quinlan Walther 54:43 If you're with someone who's really lacking consistency, they're not really following through on their word, and you're thinking, "I, I, I, I need a little bit more here. They're not taking initiative. I, I can't trust them to do what they say that they're going to do," you can bring that up. "This is what I'm noticing. I'm finding it hard to rely on you because you haven't done the things that you said that you were gonna do. I mean, can we talk about this?"And if they say, "I wanna be a more consistent, reliable person, thank you for bringing that to my attention," great. Now they wanna make that change. You've brought it to light. It is on them to make the change.

Jay Shetty 55:22 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 55:23 You can lovingly, "Hey, again, this thing didn't get done," but it's, the buck stops there.

Jay Shetty 55:30 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 55:30 You can't be, you can't be breathing down their neck. You definitely don't wanna meet them with criticism or, or constant disappointment. People don't actually change from that place.

Jay Shetty 55:40 So true.

Quinlan Walther 55:40 So if they wanna make the change themselves, great, beautiful, the onus is on them. You can be loving and supportive in the process, but I don't believe that we can really hold people accountable, and we definitely can't force them to change.

Jay Shetty 55:51 I fully agree. And, and I think the hardest part of it is you know how hard it is to change yourself. So even when someone says they want to change themselves, you gotta realize how hard that is, right? You may have your partner say to you, "Yeah, I, I really do wanna work out and get in the gym more," and then they're never in the gym. They're always watching sport. They're hanging out, whatever it is. You know how hard that is to do. And so it's such a interesting dynamic because we almost think change should be really easy for other people, knowing that it's really hard for ourselves, and then when they don't change, we're upset or disappointed in them. And if you just thought for a second about how hard it is to change yourself and build good habits yourself, I think you'd have more empathy and compassion for someone else. That's, that's how I see it at least.

Quinlan Walther 56:39 We tend to judge ourselves by our, our intentions, and we tend to judge others by their actions or their follow-through or the result of their thing, right?

Jay Shetty 56:49 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 56:49 So I meant to go to the gym five days this week. I really only made it once, but m- I intended to. I, you know, I had a lot going on. My intentions were good. I, I tried. They don't go to the gym five times a week. They only go once, and suddenly it's a reflection of their character, right?

Jay Shetty 57:05 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 57:05 They're unreliable. They lack discipline. They aren't motivated. They... Let's hold on here. Let's, let's find the color amongst all this black-and-white thinking.

Jay Shetty 57:14 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 57:14 I totally agree.

Jay Shetty 57:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's the toughest one I see. It's... I always just feel like... And that's why I love that you said start on your side of the street because I think a lot of relationship language and y- podcasting and conversations right now are all about how do you spot if someone's good. And I'm just like, ooh, I, it's a dangerous game to play because in that scenario, you're always the detective and the secret agent, and the other person's always the villain in some way. And while that can be true in, in certain cases where there's extremes, the reality is most of us are all flawed and-

Quinlan Walther 57:50 Yeah

Jay Shetty 57:50 ... making mistakes at the same time.

Quinlan Walther 57:52 And if you want a peaceful, emotionally intelligent person, right, with all the, all of these traits that are, that are wonderful, I love that for you. You have to be the other half of that relationship.

Jay Shetty 58:06 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 58:07 Right? You also want to be patient and calm, slow to conflict, kind with your words even when you're frustrated. You can handle some disappointment, and you're, you're, you, you want to be the other half of that loving relationship. It's not going to come from focusing on all the red flags you need to look out for and, and all the things that the, the specific ways they need to show up to prove to you that they are who they say that they are. Focus on your side of the street. Focus on being the other half of this relationship that you want so badly rather than trying to figure out the quick fixes to avoid all of the bad fish in the sea.

Jay Shetty 58:45 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 58:45 It's a waste of time in my opinion.

Jay Shetty 58:46 Mm.

Jay Shetty 58:47 You said in one of your videos, "The only people who are upset with your boundaries are the very same people who directly benefit from you not having any." I love that. Can you explain?

Quinlan Walther 59:00 Someone who loves you wants you to have boundaries. Someone who loves you wants there to be limits on what you will and won't tolerate, what you have capacity for or don't have capacity for. That is necessary.

Jay Shetty 59:16 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 59:16 Someone who loves you, and better yet, s- someone you want in your life, we can argue all day, do they love me or do they not? If they're disrespecting your boundaries, you probably don't want them to have much access to you energetically, emotionally. At the end of the day, boundaries aren't designed to keep people out. They aren't designed to hurt anyone's feelings. They're designed to maintain your finite amount of energy and attention, right? I, I can't say yes to everything.

Jay Shetty 59:47 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 59:47 It, it doesn't ha- I can't say yes to everything and still show up in the ways that I wanna show up, you know, keep the character and integrity that I really like about myself. There's no way to do that. Someone who loves me is going to encourage that and respect that.

Jay Shetty 1:00:00 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:00:00 And the people who benefit from you not having, the people who wanna take more from you, who want more, more, and more, who are more self-centered, they won't care.

Jay Shetty 1:00:11 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:00:12 They won't care if it's for good for you or bad for you or not. They're more focused on themselves, and that's disrespectful. That's not loving, and that's not someone who should have an infinite amount of access to you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:24 Mm. How do you set an effective

Jay Shetty 1:00:26 boundary? Because I think we've got used to the language, but we don't really know how to do it. We think that a boundary protects you from other people, but really a boundary is something that protects you from yourself and your natural triggers or ways of behavior.

Quinlan Walther 1:00:42 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:42 So how do we set a behavior that protects us rather than trying to keep other people out?

Quinlan Walther 1:00:46 A boundary is I will or won't blank if blank. I will or won't blank if blank. So that [laughs] means it is all within your control. I won't participate in this conversation if you yell at me again. I won't. Look, I, I'm gonna have to walk away.

Jay Shetty 1:01:09 Yeah, and you're not saying that to them. You need to know that as well.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:11 Right. Ugh.

Jay Shetty 1:01:12 Yeah, yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:12 And, uh, either or, right?

Jay Shetty 1:01:14 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:14 I, I don't wanna participate in a relationship with someone who lies to me. I won't. I will not. You need to know that for yourself.Absolutely. You can share these things with other people, right? Just back to the, the, um, conversation with difficult parents.

Jay Shetty 1:01:28 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:28 [laughs] Or contentious relationships with your parents. You know, "I really value our relationship-

Jay Shetty 1:01:34 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:01:34 ... but I won't stay if you keep talking to me that way."

Jay Shetty 1:01:39 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:39 "If you keep bringing up that issue, I'm gonna walk away." I will blank if blank-

Jay Shetty 1:01:45 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:01:45 ... is a boundary. Not you can't blank, blank, blank. Not you better not. The, it's not a threat. It's a rule for yourself.

Jay Shetty 1:01:54 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:01:54 And your boundaries are for you to respect.

Jay Shetty 1:01:56 Mm. And that's the hardest part, right? I feel like we

Jay Shetty 1:02:01 compromise our own boundaries. So we say things like, "I won't participate in this conversation if you lie to me," but then we continue to participate because it's not really a boundary, it's hoping they won't lie to you.

Quinlan Walther 1:02:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:14 Right? We're saying it hoping, "You'll stop lying if I threaten you."

Quinlan Walther 1:02:18 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:02:19 But you just said it's not a threat, it's a boundary if we recognize, "I have to leave now. So if you're lying, I now have to walk away," but we don't wanna do that because we're hoping they change.

Quinlan Walther 1:02:28 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:02:29 So it's like a secret, hidden hope-

Quinlan Walther 1:02:32 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:02:32 ... as opposed to a boundary.

Quinlan Walther 1:02:33 The manipulation that you just kind of described, like, "I'm gonna say that I won't tolerate it, but then if you actually do it, then I will s- 'cause what I'm really trying to get is, is you to show up for me and trying to get you to love me, so I'm gonna k- mix in this threat," that's, that's, that's a hell of a lot of manipulation.

Jay Shetty 1:02:49 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:02:50 Rather than having your own back, like really respecting yourself enough to say, "I will not tolerate this. My self-respect is not worth the emotional turmoil that comes from allowing this kind of behavior." That's really hard.

Jay Shetty 1:03:08 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:03:08 That's really hard. You have to choose your self-respect over your desire to be chosen.

Jay Shetty 1:03:13 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:03:13 Or your desire to not be alone. That's, that's paramount. Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 1:03:19 Is there such a thing as the one or a soulmate?

Quinlan Walther 1:03:22 The one is the one that you choose. The one is the person whose natural essence complements yours in a way that makes love and growth a little bit easier. A little bit, right? It's a little bit. Sometimes it's still hard.

Jay Shetty 1:03:50 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 1:03:51 But ideally, you choose well. You use discernment in the beginning. You admire someone's integrity. You really respect them. You really cherish them. You like them, [laughs] which is often an overlooked one. [laughs] You know, it's, "He's, he's th- this tall and he makes this much money, so he- he'll be the one." Well, okay, but do you like the guy?

Jay Shetty 1:04:17 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 1:04:17 You know? It's really important. And then you build the relationship from there, respecting the other person, respecting yourself, and again, creating this third entity. One thing I also think is overlooked when it comes to choosing the one and being the one, this is a, this, this is, this works for both sides. You need to be your partner, your person's biggest fan. I, I mean that with my whole heart. You need to be your partner's biggest fan, and if you can't, then you either need to check in on your insecurities, you either need to pay attention, or you've chosen the wrong person.

Jay Shetty 1:04:56 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:04:57 If you don't want their dreams to come true, if you don't want them to succeed, if you don't want them to be their happiest, best self, do not promise to spend a lifetime with them. I really, really think that that's important and, and not talked about enough.

Jay Shetty 1:05:15 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:05:15 I don't hear that very much. We talk about the conflict stuff, right? We talk about how to handle boundaries and how to do all of that, but you want someone in your corner. You want someone in your corner on your worst days, on your best days, and you wanna feel like you're on the same team.

Jay Shetty 1:05:29 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:05:29 And I deeply believe you need to be your, your person's biggest fan, and that contributes to them being the one and building the right relationship.

Jay Shetty 1:05:38 Mm. When you were saying that, it was reminding me of wedding vows. And I was thinking about how we spend so long planning a wedding and not building a marriage.

Quinlan Walther 1:05:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:05:53 And just the discrepancy between the two, even how long you'll take to write your vows. But then to live up to those vows takes a whole different set of skills, and we don't really put that much effort into building those skills and working on those parts.

Quinlan Walther 1:06:08 Maintaining those skills. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:08 Maintaining-

Quinlan Walther 1:06:09 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:06:09 ... maintaining those skills. How do you know if you're in love with someone or just the idea of them?

Quinlan Walther 1:06:18 How do you know if you're in love with someone or just the idea of them?

Jay Shetty 1:06:21 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:06:22 Is there a difference between how you wish they would be and how they actually are?

Jay Shetty 1:06:29 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:06:30 How wide is that gap? How much of the relationship do you actually enjoy-

Jay Shetty 1:06:38 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:06:39 ... versus how much time are you spending trying to change them, trying to change the dynamic? I like to say if you allow your person to be exactly who they wanna be, without molding them, without controlling them, without micromanaging them, but you allow them to show up just as they are, does that help you feel more or less like the person you want to be? Does that feel more or less like the kind of relationship you want to be in?

Jay Shetty 1:07:08 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:09 And it doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean it's all the time.

Jay Shetty 1:07:11 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:11 But if you ... It doesn't mean that they won't-

Jay Shetty 1:07:13 Yeah, yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:07:14 ... change. It doesn't mean you can't change, but if you really allow them to be, if you accept them for exactly who they are, does that help or hinder?... what you want love to feel like.

Jay Shetty 1:07:25 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:26 That's one question to ask.

Jay Shetty 1:07:27 Yeah, that's a great question. I love that question. It's, it's such an important question because that is who you're with-

Quinlan Walther 1:07:34 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:07:34 ... 90% of the time.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:36 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:07:36 And that is what you'll experience. And yeah, if you're in love with the idea of them, then you're absolutely right. Your answer to that question will be no.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:45 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:07:46 Because I want them to be a bit more this, a bit more that, a bit more this.

Quinlan Walther 1:07:50 And do you need a bit mo- Is, is that bit more that you're missing really, really important to you? If, if it is, by all means, do what you gotta do.

Jay Shetty 1:07:59 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:08:00 But I think a lot of times we fool ourselves into thinking that the little bits that we're missing are make or breaks. And we forget that loving someone is such an honor. And this is more so j- geared towards long-term relationships, marriages of sorts. But it's a real honor to be able to love someone through several seasons of their life.

Jay Shetty 1:08:24 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:08:25 To be able to be their support system, to be the smiling face that picks them up on a day when they feel shitty, to be there when they lose someone that they love or they lose an opportunity or they hit their highest high. To sit with them on a Sunday night on the couch every Sunday for years and years in a row. I mean, it's an honor to love someone and to be there. And sometimes I just think we need to reframe the way that we view the person we're with as

Quinlan Walther 1:08:59 a whole human all on their own, that we get the honor to love, and that tends, that tends to clear out a lot of the little bits that we aren't getting.

Jay Shetty 1:09:09 Yeah. That's beautiful.

Quinlan Walther 1:09:11 You look at that person and you think, "My God, I really do love them."

Jay Shetty 1:09:14 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:09:14 Look at the way that they do the dishes or tie their shoes. I love the way that, that they drive.

Jay Shetty 1:09:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 1:09:20 And the way they dance to mus- I love, I love to watch them get ready and put... you know, do their morning routine or whatever. Like, you just look at that human and remember that it, that it's an honor-

Jay Shetty 1:09:30 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:09:31 ... to love them. And maybe that'll clear out some of the bits that you're missing.

Jay Shetty 1:09:35 Yeah. What do you wish people asked themselves before they got married?

Quinlan Walther 1:09:41 Do I want to be a partner, or do I want a spouse? And the difference there is when you want to be a partner, when you want to be someone's support system, when you want to be the co-creator of the marriage that you're about to step into, the life that you're going to build, there's accountability and responsibility in that, and it really allows you to focus on what you can control, which is how you show up. Now, assuming you're walking to, walking to [laughs] that altar and you know this person pretty damn well, and you've spent a good long time seeing who they are, s- understanding their heart, really caring for them, all of that, you're gonna have to remember that sometimes the best you can do is show up as the partner you wanna be. That you want to be, even if your seasons are, are misaligned. Um, Matthew McConaughey has this great bit in a podcast that he did where he says, "Sometimes you're walking and they're running."

Jay Shetty 1:10:49 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:10:50 "And sometimes you're running and they're walking. And you just have to make sure that one doesn't get too far ahead of the other."

Jay Shetty 1:10:56 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:10:56 And I love that.

Jay Shetty 1:10:57 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:10:58 I love him. Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:10:58 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that too. It's-

Quinlan Walther 1:11:00 I think that's well said.

Jay Shetty 1:11:01 Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think it's about how you communicate when you are that. I, I've always thought about it as sometimes me and my wife are driving to the same event, but we're driving separately.

Quinlan Walther 1:11:12 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:11:12 She's gonna get there early, and I'm gonna be late, and so I'm on the phone and I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna be late." And she's like, "Well, I'm gonna be early." And I'm like, "Okay. Well, do you wanna wait for me because you wanna go in together, or do you wanna go in without me and I'll follow you in there?" And she's like, "No, I want to wait for you to go in there together." And it's like you're both driving separately, but you're talking to each other the whole time-

Quinlan Walther 1:11:32 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:11:32 ... about where you're at, and that's that conversation that calms you both down rather than you have no idea what time that person's getting there. One of the challenges I find is that everyone wants their... A lot of what I hear is people want their partner to talk to them more emotionally and tell them more, and there's a lot of people who don't wanna do that or don't know how to do that or don't feel the need for it.

Quinlan Walther 1:11:55 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:11:56 And the person who wants to talk kind of gets a bit annoyed and frustrated and, and upset that their partner won't talk. What's your advice in that scenario?

Quinlan Walther 1:12:05 What's the loving thing to do?

Jay Shetty 1:12:06 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:12:08 You know? And that, that probably requires both sides of the aisle to adjust a little bit. You're not gonna get perfect words all the time. It's not gonna happen. And you're gonna have to give imperfect words a lot of the time.

Jay Shetty 1:12:20 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:12:20 You're going to have to try. The, my aunt and uncle are in their mid-70s, early 70s. They've been married for 25, 30 years, something like that, and we were just having a conversation the other night. I was asking my Uncle John, I said, "What is your secret to, to the... What's the magic? How has this happened?" They're probably the happiest couple I know. In- in- incredible. And he said, "She tells me what she wants to hear, and I repeat it back to her."

Jay Shetty 1:12:48 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 1:12:48 And he meant, Jay, he meant it with his full chest. I've seen them do it.

Jay Shetty 1:12:51 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:12:51 My Aunt Beth will say, "I need you to tell me that this is gonna be okay, you hear me, you've got my back, and you've got it covered." And he will re- recite it right back to her word for word, and they say, "Okay. I love you."

Jay Shetty 1:13:04 [laughs]

Quinlan Walther 1:13:05 And leave it there.

Jay Shetty 1:13:06 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:13:06 And somet- And some people will think, "But if I have to say it, it d- If I have to tell them what to say, it doesn't matter. It's, it, it erodes the value," and this, that, and the other. If your person is asking to be loved in a specific way, put your stuff aside and show up-

Jay Shetty 1:13:21 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:13:21 ... to the best of your ability.

Jay Shetty 1:13:23 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:13:23 It will not be perfect all the time. It sure as hell won't.But do the loving thing, and that is typically to show up in the ways that your partner is explicitly asking you to. If you want bonus points, anticipate some of those needs, [laughs] right? Pay attention and try to do it without having to be asked. But don't knock the, the direct communication.

Jay Shetty 1:13:43 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:13:44 And then choosing the loving thing to do.

Jay Shetty 1:13:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:13:49 How do you start to trust yourself again when someone breaks up with you that you thought you were gonna be with for a long time?

Quinlan Walther 1:13:59 Well, step one, grieve. You know, there's an acute phase of heartbreak where you don't have to do anything right or well, you can just be. That's step number one, especially if it's a, a breakup after a long, long relationship. The next step is reflection. You know, right now the story might be, "They left me. They didn't love me. All those years were wasted. How could I have done that? I should've known." Y- right? "I, I must be disposable." It's a lot. That's harsh. There's more color in that story. So what were some of the red flags or some of the, even just the disconnection, the things that weren't working? Take some accountability in that. You know, "I, I didn't communicate as well as I really wish that I would've" or, "You know what? I stayed way too long 'cause I tried to communicate and that person wasn't meeting me. That was really difficult." Take some accountability around how you may have contributed, what you want in your relationship moving forward, and more so focusing on who you wanna be now that that chapter has closed. Because I can tell you one thing, the person who is for you is the person who wants to be with you.

Jay Shetty 1:15:17 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:15:18 If they aren't willing to try, they're definitely not your person.

Jay Shetty 1:15:22 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:15:22 And I think that most things, most relationships can be worked out if they're, if two people are willing.

Jay Shetty 1:15:29 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:15:30 If you want it to, barring some extreme cases. But if they're not willing, they're not your person. Now, when it comes to moving on specifically, I always say stop trying because we think that if, "Okay, if I just do all of these steps, I have to do this in the morning and this at night, and this is my evening routine, and then I'll wake up at s- someday and I'll be moved on," as if it's a destination. I say imagine yourself, tomorrow morning you wake up and you get what you wanted. You wanna move on. You wanna trust yourself again. If you knew for certain that you would wake up tomorrow and that was your reality, what would you do with yourself?

Jay Shetty 1:16:09 Oh, that's such a good question.

Quinlan Walther 1:16:10 What would you think about? How would you spend your time? What would you invest your, your energy into? Who would you spend your time with? What would you think about? What would you talk about? And then just start to do some of those things.

Jay Shetty 1:16:21 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:16:22 Bring the grief with you. It's probably not gonna happen as fast as you want it to, but you want a direction. You want a clearer vision of where you're going so that you can head in that direction.

Jay Shetty 1:16:31 Yeah, so good. That's such a good answer because, yeah, all the little tips and tricks to try and move on quick, i- it doesn't process like that. And, and I love the idea of what would your life look like if you'd already moved on? Because that's what you're waiting for. You're waiting for that anyway. You're waiting for the day you've moved on and you can say, "I'm over it, and I'm ready for whatever."

Quinlan Walther 1:16:54 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:16:54 What is it? What does that look like? And start mirroring that today. That's brilliant.

Quinlan Walther 1:16:57 You want the thing, right?

Jay Shetty 1:16:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:16:58 I just wanna move on.

Jay Shetty 1:17:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:00 What does that even mean to you?

Jay Shetty 1:17:01 Absolutely.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:01 Like, let's define it.

Jay Shetty 1:17:03 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:03 That gives you something to, to move towards.

Jay Shetty 1:17:06 Yes.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:06 Which is so important. And moving on doesn't even necessarily mean that you don't care. You might still care.

Jay Shetty 1:17:12 Yes.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:12 You might care about that person for the rest of your life.

Jay Shetty 1:17:13 Yes.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:14 But you wanna build whatever your next chapter is to be as enjoyable and intentional as possible.

Jay Shetty 1:17:21 Yes.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:22 And that that gives you somewhere to go.

Jay Shetty 1:17:24 Yes. And, and mostly,

Jay Shetty 1:17:26 I was, I was coaching someone earlier this year, and they were going through a breakup, and the first month they broke up, they talked about it every day. The second month after they broke up, they talked about it every other day. The third month, they talked about it every three days. The fourth month, they talked about it once a week.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:17:44 And then the fifth month, they thought about it once a, a month. And I had to remind them of that because to them, every reminder was as sharp as remembering it every day.

Quinlan Walther 1:17:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:17:56 And I like people to think about it like that. You're not trying to get to a point where tomorrow you don't think about it at all. You're just thinking about it less because your life looks like how you want it to be and what it would be like if you were free. And I've always thought about that mindset. Even when I've had, even when you think about physical pain, if you wanna wake up tomorrow and you've had surgery or you're hurt or whatever, and you wanna be completely healed, it will never happen. You'll only ever be 1% better if you did all the right things.

Quinlan Walther 1:18:24 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:18:25 And as soon as you accept that all I need to do is be 1% better today, all of a sudden you see that progress. But when you're looking to be 100% better and you aren't, now you feel 99% behind.

Quinlan Walther 1:18:35 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:18:36 And it just becomes so amplified, and that's what it feels like to be wanting to heal from a breakup, and you're constantly feeling on, "Why haven't I healed yet?"

Quinlan Walther 1:18:43 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:18:44 That's that 90%.

Quinlan Walther 1:18:45 And oftentimes there are beliefs, almost, almost identities that we find ourselves trying to, uh, finding ourselves wrestling with when a breakup happens. "No one will choose me. I'm never good enough. Nothing that I do is good enough. No one will stay. It was all my fault," or, "It was all their fault. How could they..." And we find these, these absolutes that are really, really difficult to-

Jay Shetty 1:19:10 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:19:10 ... do anything productive with. Truly. I mean, and it doesn't, it doesn't make you feel better emotionally. You, you can't really move yourself forward from there. And, and that's what I say about just be s- be malleable with the story.

Jay Shetty 1:19:23 Mm-hmm.

Quinlan Walther 1:19:24 For a while, for the first month, for the first what- Add a maybe.

Jay Shetty 1:19:28 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:19:29 Add a question mark to the end of that.Like, I'm difficult to love, question mark

Jay Shetty 1:19:34 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:19:34 Just, just

Jay Shetty 1:19:35 [laughs] That's good

Quinlan Walther 1:19:36 Don't wrestle with the absolutes. Give yourself time and space to consider another narrative, 'cause I promise you there's color. There's nuance in that

Jay Shetty 1:19:47 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:19:47 They didn't leave because you're hard to love. Someone choosing not to love you is not a reflection of how lovable or unlovable you are. So you know that. Don't wrestle with the absolute. Give yourself time and space, would be another piece of advice

Jay Shetty 1:20:02 I like the question mark. That's good

Quinlan Walther 1:20:04 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:20:04 Yeah. It's true. It's true. It's totally true

Quinlan Walther 1:20:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:20:07 It's totally true. I love that.

Jay Shetty 1:20:09 Q, have you ever had your heart broken?

Quinlan Walther 1:20:12 Many times, in many different ways. Yeah. And it's... I have a, I have an interesting relationship with grief now. And in part, of course, my mom is, is a big part of that. But losing relationships and growing through heartbreak has always been a catalyst for me. And I don't say that as a, [laughs] like, "I'm so high and mighty, and this is so impressive." No, it's usually quite ugly, and it's usually quite messy to, to really look at yourself and put the pieces back together and, and try to move on. But I've always come out the other side liking myself more

Jay Shetty 1:20:54 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:20:55 ... accepting uglier parts of myself that I don't think I accepted previously. 'Cause you gotta take a real look at why you did what you did, how you showed up, the people that you chose, and sometimes that means accepting, like, man, I've been... I haven't been making the best choices. And I have to, you have to love that. You have to accept that. And it expands your capacity in a way that allows for the emotional flexibility we were talking about earlier, where the deepest heartbreak, losing my mom, losing people that I, I thought I would spend the rest of my life with. Losing that makes everything else a little bit easier to process. If I can survive that-

Jay Shetty 1:21:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:21:44 ... I can survive a lot

Jay Shetty 1:21:47 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:21:47 A lot. And I've been there through all of that. I've picked myself back up. I've built a support system of people who, who remind me of that when, when I forget

Jay Shetty 1:21:56 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:21:56 Right? That's... But I really learned to like myself. I really learned to trust myself, and I really learned that there can be beauty in the mess if you stay put and go through it long enough to find the bigger story, the bigger meaning, the bigger narrative

Jay Shetty 1:22:17 Q, we end

Jay Shetty 1:22:18 every episode of On Purpose with a Final Five. These five questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. And so Q, these are your Final Five. The first question is, what is the best love advice you've ever heard or received?

Quinlan Walther 1:22:33 Do the loving thing

Jay Shetty 1:22:34 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:22:35 Comma, and choose appreciation. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:22:39 [laughs] I love it. You can do that. That's fine.

Quinlan Walther 1:22:40 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:22:40 Commas are fine. That was, that was very well done. Uh, second question, what is the worst love advice you've ever heard or received?

Quinlan Walther 1:22:47 Match their energy. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's the reality. You don't... Matching someone's energy means you're handing over your power

Jay Shetty 1:22:59 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:23:00 'Cause your power is in how you respond

Jay Shetty 1:23:02 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:23:02 Your power is in your intention. Are you going to add more negativity to a situation you don't already li- you already don't like? Maybe you can choose how you want to respond rather than matching someone's energy

Jay Shetty 1:23:17 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:23:17 And even more so, maybe your love, your decision to meet them in a way that they can't seem to meet themselves in that moment is exactly what they need

Jay Shetty 1:23:26 Mm. Love that. I always say to people, "You don't, you don't mess up your living room just because someone messy's coming over."

Quinlan Walther 1:23:35 Right, yes. [laughs] That's well said

Jay Shetty 1:23:37 Right? You just don't do that

Quinlan Walther 1:23:38 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:23:38 Like, it's like I'm not gonna match that energy because then I'm gonna start walking over my rugs with my dirty shoes and-

Quinlan Walther 1:23:45 Right

Jay Shetty 1:23:45 ... like, why would I do that just because someone's coming over? It's like, no, they're, they're a messy person. That's fine. That's their mind and their space, and I'm not gonna messy up my mind because-

Quinlan Walther 1:23:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:23:55 ... we're interacting

Quinlan Walther 1:23:56 It's a very inauthentic way-

Jay Shetty 1:23:58 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:23:58 ... to move through the world

Jay Shetty 1:24:00 Yeah

Quinlan Walther 1:24:00 To build relationships

Jay Shetty 1:24:01 Absolutely. Uh, question number three, what did you used to believe to be true about love and romance that you don't anymore?

Quinlan Walther 1:24:10 I used to believe that love the feeling-

Jay Shetty 1:24:14 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:14 ... was enough

Jay Shetty 1:24:15 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:16 It's fantastical. It's alluring, right? That someone will show up, and your whole life will be better. Everything, you'll be whisked away by, by their love ha- and live happily ever after. That's not a story that you really want

Jay Shetty 1:24:30 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:32 You know, you, you want to build a relationship intentionally

Jay Shetty 1:24:37 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:38 You want to choose to give love and to build love-

Jay Shetty 1:24:41 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:41 ... and to build this relationship. And sometimes it takes those, those shitty moments, those really tough moments to remind you how much you value the really good moments. And I think if love was just a feeling, we would miss a lot of that

Jay Shetty 1:24:54 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:24:54 Love is consideration, the action, the willingness to continue showing up and creating more of it

Jay Shetty 1:25:04 Mm-hmm. Love that. Question number four, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

Quinlan Walther 1:25:11 Being understood. People can really only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves

Jay Shetty 1:25:18 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:25:19 Which means that some people simply won't have the ability to understand you, and that's okay

Jay Shetty 1:25:24 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:25:25 You don't need to fight to be heard, to be seen, to be approved of. Sometimes it's just okay to say, "We don't agree"

Jay Shetty 1:25:37 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:25:37 "I don't think you understand"And let it be

Jay Shetty 1:25:43 Love that. Okay, fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Quinlan Walther 1:25:54 To live within your integrity, to decide for each person individually, like, what is right to you? What kind of person do you wanna be? What is true for you, your truths? What kind of person do you strive to be, uh, so much so that it feels in your bones, in your heart, just right.

Jay Shetty 1:26:19 Mm.

Quinlan Walther 1:26:20 I wish it was a law that everyone had to figure out what that meant to them-

Jay Shetty 1:26:25 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:26:25 ... and then they had to act on it-

Jay Shetty 1:26:26 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:26:27 ... consistently. 'Cause I, I really believe that most, if not all of us, would ch- would choose to be good people-

Jay Shetty 1:26:35 Mm

Quinlan Walther 1:26:35 ... would choose to make value-based decisions, kind decisions, loving decisions, not fear-based, hurtful, destructive decisions. I really believe that if we were all living within integrity, if we had the courage to understand that for ourselves-

Jay Shetty 1:26:52 Mm-hmm

Quinlan Walther 1:26:52 ... that we, we would do a lot of good.

Jay Shetty 1:26:55 Yeah. I love that.

Quinlan Walther 1:26:57 That would be my law.

Jay Shetty 1:26:58 Q, thank you so much. Uh, everyone who's been listening and watching, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're driving to or from work, whether you're cooking, uh, I'm so grateful that you joined us. Please make sure that you follow Quinlan Walther on social media, uh, across platforms. And I wanna know what resonated with you. I wanna know what connected with you. So tag us both, take the clips, post them, let us know what resonated, what really got through to you. Share this with a friend who may be going through a breakup issue, may be moving in with someone, may be a friend's getting married soon. This could be one of those episodes that I think you can listen to, your friends and family can listen to, and connect with, no matter where they are on their love and romance journey. And again, Q, thank you so much for showing up so authentically. Uh, it was so great to just go back and forth with you and dissect so many different themes and topics. I'm so grateful to spend time with you, and I can't wait to have you back.

Quinlan Walther 1:27:47 Thank you, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:27:48 Yeah.

Quinlan Walther 1:27:48 Such a pleasure.

Jay Shetty 1:27:49 Thanks so much.

Quinlan Walther 1:27:49 Appreciate it.

Jay Shetty 1:27:50 Hey, everyone. If you loved that conversation, go and check out my episode with the world's leading therapist, Lori Gottlieb, where she answers the biggest questions that people ask in therapy when it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating. If you're trying to figure out that space right now, you won't wanna miss this conversation.

Quinlan Walther 1:28:11 If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard to argue. It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as you're having the conversation. It's so lovely