The Business Expert: The SECRET FORMULA That Launches Billion-Dollar Companies!

Emma Grede 0:00 When you are chasing a dream, you're gonna be happy about a third of the time. I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded. We don't talk about that. I felt like it was the end of, like, my company and my career, but it wasn't. It was just a failure. One of America's richest self-made women. Fashion and business powerhouse Emma Grede. I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear for so long. That held me back. It was rough.

Jay Shetty 0:29 Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

Emma Grede 0:51 The bestselling author and host.

Speaker 0:53 The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty 0:55 On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. You know that my goal is to introduce you to incredible thinkers, thought leaders, people who are making an impact and a difference in the world, rule breakers, people who are changing the way we think, lead, and live. And today's guest is someone I've wanted on for a long, long time, so I'm very excited that I finally have her sitting opposite me. I'm talking about the one and only Emma Grede, CEO and co-founder of Good American, the first fully inclusive fashion brand that celebrates all dimensions of female power. In October 2016, Emma launched Good American alongside Khloe Kardashian. What started as the largest denim launch in history, Good American is now an iconic inclusive fashion line of denim, ready-to-wear, swim, shoes, and active wear. Emma is also a founding partner and chief product officer of SKIMS, a solutions-oriented brand creating the next generation of underwear, lounge wear, and shape wear, you already knew that, and co-founder of Safely, an accessible premium home care brand dedicated to creating high-quality plant-based cleaning products. Emma is now recognized as one of America's richest self-made women by Forbes, and serves as chairwoman of the Fifteen Percent Pledge, and also is a board member of Baby the Baby. And for me, beyond all of this, I'm just happy to be sitting with a fellow Brit-

Emma Grede 2:25 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:25 ... in LA. And just so grateful, Emma, because I've been watching you, I've been following you. Your energy, whether it's a picture or a video, is so magnetic and so real.

Emma Grede 2:38 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:38 And now I meet you in person, I'm like-

Emma Grede 2:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:40 ... it's amazing. So thank you, thank you for being here.

Emma Grede 2:42 Honestly, I could not be more happy to be here. A, definitely because you're a fellow Brit, but I have been listening and watching and reading you for so long. This is, like, the thing that I've been most excited about for the longest time.

Jay Shetty 2:56 Aw.

Emma Grede 2:56 So thank you for having me today.

Jay Shetty 2:58 Oh, you're the sweetest.

Emma Grede 2:59 Very happy.

Jay Shetty 2:59 No.

Emma Grede 2:59 It's a big, like, tick for me. I'm like, "Yes, let's do it."

Jay Shetty 3:03 Oh, you're the sweetest. And I want you to know, literally my whole team was so excited you were coming today.

Emma Grede 3:08 You're so funny. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:08 Everyone is such major fans. They're, they're big fans of your work.

Emma Grede 3:10 I can't even imagine that.

Jay Shetty 3:11 Yeah.

Emma Grede 3:11 Even when you say it, I'm like, "Really?"

Jay Shetty 3:13 It's true.

Emma Grede 3:13 "What for?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:14 [laughs]

Emma Grede 3:15 I'm like, "Oh, no." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:16 I wanna go back to, I remember that, that you and Khloe were doing a Live years ago.

Emma Grede 3:21 Yes.

Jay Shetty 3:22 And I literally just came on because I saw you both live, and I came on and I was just saying, "Hey, guys." You know, like, just being friendly.

Emma Grede 3:28 And we were like, "Wa." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:29 You both shifted the entire... I just want everyone to understand this. They're on a Live talking about their incredible brand-

Emma Grede 3:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:35 ... that is, like, crushing it-

Emma Grede 3:36 Oh

Jay Shetty 3:36 ... and little old me comes on.

Emma Grede 3:38 We're like, "Jay, we love him." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:40 [laughs] And it was the sweetest thing. Like, and I was like, how did... I felt terrible, so I logged off [laughs] 'cause I felt like-

Emma Grede 3:45 No, no, no

Jay Shetty 3:46 ... no.

Emma Grede 3:46 We went, "Where's he gone?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:47 It was so sweet, and I was just like, how conscious and kind and thoughtful. And anyway, I, I wanna dive straight into your incredible journey. That's why we're here today, to understand you, the human behind this-

Emma Grede 3:57 Thank you

Jay Shetty 3:58 ... incredible journey and incredible story. And I wanna start off with, what is your earliest childhood memory-

Emma Grede 4:05 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 4:05 ... that you think is indicative and defines who you are today?

Emma Grede 4:10 That is such a brilliant question. This is what you do, right? You ask the best questions. I'm so glad you didn't say, "Why did you start Good American?"

Jay Shetty 4:17 [laughs]

Emma Grede 4:17 Um, you know, it's so interesting. I come from East London, and, you know, East London is like, you know, it's like coming from, like, Long Beach, Inglewood, or Brooklyn. Do, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's the street. It's the part of London that when, you know, if you go back 30 years ago when I was a kid, it's just not the place where you would happily hang out.

Jay Shetty 4:39 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 4:39 I had a fantastic upbringing there, you know, and I think it's very defining. East London has been very defining of me, my personality. You were really raised to, you know, in a, in a community, to have huge respect for the people around you, huge trust, actually, for the people around you. But it was pretty devoid of any aspiration, and certainly any, any glamour. And I was one of those kids that just kinda grew up, like, always kind of looking at what could be next and what was in my future, and I just fell into this, like, fashion magazine land. You know? It's like I would do my paper route, I'd get the money from that, I'd spend it on an issue of, like, Vogue or Elle or Marie Claire. And it was that great moment, sort of late '80s, early '90s in England, where we had, you know, so many incredible movements. You know, Brit Pop, Brit Art. But all of those supermodels. You know? It's like Naomi and Kate Moss, and I saw that as a means of escapism. I never thought about it as a potential for a job, but I was like, "Let me just lift out of where I am and aspire to something that was beautiful and aspirational," because I couldn't see that anywhere around me. And so when I think about my childhood, I think partially about this piece of, like, East London, where there's an honesty and an authenticity and a level of just, like, being the person that you say you are, like, living by a certain set of values. And then this other part that was like, "Get me out of here." [laughs] Do you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 6:07 Yeah.

Emma Grede 6:07 And that, that's the honesty of it, really.

Jay Shetty 6:08 Yeah. And how do... where do

Jay Shetty 6:10 you think that comes from? I think some people are like, you know, we become products of our environment.

Emma Grede 6:13 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 6:14 And so if some people are in a group of people or in an area that is unambitious or not striving, it's easy to fold into that.

Emma Grede 6:22 Yes.

Jay Shetty 6:22 Where did that come for you personally? Like, was it someone in your life? Was it something you read? Was it the magazines? Like, where did that belief come that there could be more, there may be more, there is another place to go to?

Emma Grede 6:34 You know, I think that it must have come from my mum in some ways, because I honestly, I didn't know anyone that owned their own business. Every- where I come from, everyone worked a job, and you worked for somebody else.

Jay Shetty 6:44 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 6:45 And jobs were seen as exactly that. There was no career, there was no vocation, there was no, like, purposeful doing of what you do. It's like you get up, you went to work, you probably found it miserable, and you tried to get out of there as quickly as you could. And for me, I really thought that, you know, there has to be a better way to live. I was like, "Shouldn't there be some excitement and enjoyment?" But I don't know where I got it from. The sense of value and the sense of ambition has always been in me, and people always say to me, you know, like, "How did you get to where you are?" And I go, "Well, it's much more simple than people think, you know?" It's like I really value myself, and I really value my goals, and I don't think it's much more complicated than that. But I was taught that by my mum, who was very, very much like, "Listen, Emma, you're not better than anybody else, but nor is anyone better than you."

Jay Shetty 7:36 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 7:36 And so when people talk about imposter syndrome, like, I look around, I'm like, "That's, that's just made up." Like, everyb- we all feel exactly the same, like, deep, deep down. And that sense of me feeling like I could achieve was just built in. Like, I n- I've never felt a lack of confidence. I've never felt less than. I always felt like if I worked hard enough and I really, like, put everything into it, that I could achieve. I still feel like that today. I don't expect things to be easy, but I s- I've, I've never had a sense of I couldn't.

Jay Shetty 8:09 Yeah. What a great way for your mum to set you up. Like, what a amazing-

Emma Grede 8:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 8:13 ... recipe to-

Emma Grede 8:14 I guess so [laughs]

Jay Shetty 8:14 But no, it's, it's beautiful to hear that because I love that perspective of no one's better than you and you're not better than anyone. Like, that's such a great equalizer.

Emma Grede 8:21 Absolutely, and the two things are really important, right? Because I grew up with such a respect for everybody else around me, regardless of, like, where they come from or, you know, what they were doing. And I think that, you know, as a kid, I was surrounded by a lot of people that were doing what they had to do to get through the day, and I never looked down on anyone. I always thought, "Well, you know what? As long as you are doing something, you find an interest in something." And for me, that came at a very early age in fashion, but it was much more a means of escapism than me sitting there and, like, really appreciating the clothing or the craft. It was like, I... it was a means to dream.

Jay Shetty 8:57 Yeah,

Jay Shetty 8:58 absolutely. I love that. And tell me about, you touched on it there, but I wanna talk about your first job.

Emma Grede 9:02 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:02 And I like doing this with people because what's really interesting to me is people forget, especially when someone's at the peaks of their careers-

Emma Grede 9:11 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 9:11 ... and achieving incredible things, like, when people ask you the question of like, "How did you get to where you are?" It almost takes away from the fact that there was a first job that-

Emma Grede 9:20 Oh, God, yeah

Jay Shetty 9:20 ... wasn't this CEO and-

Emma Grede 9:21 Well, especially now, right?

Jay Shetty 9:22 Yeah.

Emma Grede 9:22 Because we have this idea, espe- through, like, social media, that everything happens overnight.

Jay Shetty 9:26 Yeah.

Emma Grede 9:26 And I think, you know, it's like I've been grafting away since I was 12 years old, and like, boom, I get some success at 40, and people think you're an overnight success. I have worked every job imaginable. I had a paper round when I was 12 until I was 15. I worked in a delicatessen. I worked in clothes shops. I served in restaurants. It's like I've done every job in fashion that you could do at the lowest possible level imaginable while not being paid, right?

Jay Shetty 9:51 [laughs]

Emma Grede 9:52 It's like I've done all of it. But actually, for me, you know, when you talk about people and your point of view on life, like, I am a naturally pos- of a naturally positive distribution, right, uh, uh, disposition. I always am a person that thinks about the glass being half full. And so even when I worked in that deli and I was making a sandwich, I was gonna make you the best turkey sandwich you've ever had in your life. And I would wait and look at you and be like, "How good is that sandwich?"

Jay Shetty 10:19 [laughs]

Emma Grede 10:19 "Is that an amazing sandwich? I chose the best, like, amount of turkey with the right amount of the pickle, and I'd make it look nice, and I'd cut it beautifully, like, on the plate." And do you know, do you know what I mean? So for me, I can take pride in anything, and I also take a huge amount of learnings from everything. So for me, it's like I used to think, "Well, one day, like, this will be useful to me." Like, one day, learning how to make a perfect cappuccino or making a customer happy or discussing how things work in a shop or a delicatessen will be useful to me. And I actually think about all of those experiences as being very formative.

Jay Shetty 10:52 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 10:52 Um, and I enjoyed all of them. You know, it's like I've just, I've really worked, and I think everybody talks so much about hard work, but they don't really talk about, like, unenjoyable work. I had a lot of unenjoyable jobs that I just had to get through, but I never, ever let it put me off. I always saw them as a means to the end, you know?

Jay Shetty 11:12 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 11:12 And so I think when we talk about that now, like, what does hard work actually means, it means getting up and thinking about the end goal when you're nowhere even close to it, right? But you can see a pathway, and for me, it was always about that. I could always see very clearly that I'm gonna do that to get to that, to get to that, and I've been quite, um, been quite planned, I feel, in so many ways in my life.

Jay Shetty 11:35 Yeah, and I'm so glad you raised that point because I've, I feel the same way, that you don't have to love a job to learn from it.

Emma Grede 11:42 No.

Jay Shetty 11:43 And I think we all are thinking, "Well, I hate my job. I dislike it. It's the worst. It's a waste of time. I'm in the wrong place." But actually, if you just shift that to be like, "What can I learn? What experience do I not have?"

Emma Grede 11:54 100%.

Jay Shetty 11:54 "How can I interact?" Like-

Emma Grede 11:55 How do I not wanna behave?

Jay Shetty 11:56 Yeah.

Emma Grede 11:56 Like, this boss drives me crazy. I'll never be this boss.

Jay Shetty 11:59 Yes, yes.

Emma Grede 11:59 I remember I had a boss like that, and I used to literally write it down in the back of my book, like, you should never, ever speak to people [laughs] like that or call someone out in that way, and I think that's been so formative of what type of leader I wanna be. But the two things for me haven't been mutually exclusive, right? I think that you can Two things can be true at the one time. You can be unashamedly ambitious and focused on what it is that you need, while also being an inspiring, an empathic leader who lifts other people up. And so I've been thinking about those type of things since I've been a boss, you know, for the last 15 years, as a direct reflection of what I didn't experience when I was an employee.

Jay Shetty 12:40 Yeah.

Emma Grede 12:40 And so I actually think, God, all of those experiences were really good for me, 'cause now I know what I don't wanna do.

Jay Shetty 12:45 Yeah, absolutely. I did a paper round too, by the way.

Emma Grede 12:47 Did you?

Jay Shetty 12:47 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 12:48 I love it.

Jay Shetty 12:48 That was my first ever job.

Emma Grede 12:49 That was heavy work.

Jay Shetty 12:50 It was such hard work.

Emma Grede 12:51 It was heavy work. But that's where I feel like I got my appreciation for the mornings. Like, I'm such a, like, early bird.

Jay Shetty 12:56 Yeah.

Emma Grede 12:56 And I remember doing those paper rounds in the dark in England, and it was kind of amazing, 'cause you'd like, most houses were quiet, quiet, and then you'd see this, like, one house where, like, there's a little glimmer happening. And I thought, I learned the power of the mornings from that particular job.

Jay Shetty 13:10 [laughs]

Emma Grede 13:10 Like, getting out, getting a head start. I'd go home, I'd put on my school uniform before any of my sisters. I'd be sitting there with a cup of tea, while they were all, like, scrambling around, and I was like, "This early morning stuff, there's something to it," you know?

Jay Shetty 13:22 Wow. That's interesting, so I used to do mine in the evening-

Emma Grede 13:24 Oh, did you?

Jay Shetty 13:24 ... because I didn't have to do it in the morning, so I'd do it after school.

Emma Grede 13:27 Oh, wow. What about your people getting the papers? What happened to them?

Jay Shetty 13:29 I don't know. That's just what-

Emma Grede 13:30 They're a day behind. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:31 [laughs] I, that's what I was told to do.

Emma Grede 13:33 They all hated you. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:34 That's what I was told to... I don't think anyone read the paper.

Emma Grede 13:36 That's amazing. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:37 Uh, but I would like, I'd walk around with my, uh, headphones on.

Emma Grede 13:40 Amazing.

Jay Shetty 13:40 I'd be listening to Eminem, and I'd have like this-

Emma Grede 13:42 Oh, I know that

Jay Shetty 13:42 ... yeah.

Emma Grede 13:43 I know that paper round. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:44 Yeah, and I'd have this, like, really weird-looking, like, trolley that I'd pull around.

Emma Grede 13:47 Trolley. You had to have the trolley.

Jay Shetty 13:48 And then I'd have to take the papers into a bag.

Emma Grede 13:50 Oh.

Jay Shetty 13:50 Ca- that bag stunted my growth.

Emma Grede 13:51 You are bringing me back.

Jay Shetty 13:52 [laughs]

Emma Grede 13:53 I believe that too. I have, like, a lopsided shoulder because of that bag. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:57 It was so bad. But yeah, I learned the same thing. Like, for me, so all the kids in my area, what they used to do, the other kids who did the paper routes, they used to throw the papers off the edge of the train track or, like, in a bush, or whatever it was.

Emma Grede 14:09 Wow.

Jay Shetty 14:09 So then the guy who ran whatever company it was that did the paper routes, he said to me, he goes, "Jay, you're the only reliable person I have."

Emma Grede 14:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:15 "So I'm gonna give you all their streets-"

Emma Grede 14:17 I love it

Jay Shetty 14:18 ..."and you get paid more."

Emma Grede 14:18 You're like that, course in. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:20 Yeah, exactly.

Emma Grede 14:20 You're out here making money. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:22 Yeah, it was amazing. And, and it's, I love that you said that, that you learned, and I love the passion. I wish you were at my local deli. Like-

Emma Grede 14:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:28 And, and you know that stuff still happens today. I interviewed, um, last year I was doing a show for YouTube, and I interviewed this TikToker called Markell Washington.

Emma Grede 14:37 Oh, right.

Jay Shetty 14:38 And if anyone doesn't know who he is, he's awesome, like, great energy, super talented-

Emma Grede 14:41 Amazing

Jay Shetty 14:42 ... young guy, and he was, I think he worked in a Subway.

Emma Grede 14:47 Wow.

Jay Shetty 14:47 And he was, he used to dance and sing while he served.

Emma Grede 14:51 Right?

Jay Shetty 14:52 And not only did he used to upload that to TikTok, he got found that way, and now he's got this incredible career.

Emma Grede 14:56 So amazing.

Jay Shetty 14:57 And I love that energy of, like, back then when you were doing it, and it took you maybe a lot longer to find that success, he was doing it more recently, he found it, but it's interesting to see that it's the same sort

Jay Shetty 15:08 of... What was, what was the hardest job that you did, the most unenjoyable, the most uncomfortable, where you actually looked at it and went, "Maybe this is not worth it"? Like, what, what was the one that pushed you to the edge?

Emma Grede 15:20 Well, you know, it's so interesting. It was probably the job that I did before starting my first company, because such a part of that, I worked in a fashion show production company, which if you imagine, like, I wanna be in fashion, you think, yes. The reality of that is that you're building stages, you're working on this, like, concept of, like, you know, whatever you're producing for three months. The show goes up and down in 10 minutes, everybody goes off to the after party, and you're doing de-rig, and you're like, "Ah." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 15:45 [laughs]

Emma Grede 15:46 "This is the worst job ever." And so I transitioned into this role of, like, sponsorship, which was so formative for my, for the first business that I ever started, because it was all about brand partnerships and marketing and collaboration. But my role at that point, when you know nobody, was just cold calling, right?

Jay Shetty 16:02 Mm.

Emma Grede 16:03 So I would just have to, like, hit the phones, and the rejection, and, you know, you can't help but take that personally. You're like, "Uh, I haven't made one connection today." And that I found so disheartening. But, you know, I even knew then, I was like, "This will be worth something."

Jay Shetty 16:19 [laughs]

Emma Grede 16:19 Because for every, like, little knock-back you got, you know, every kind of three days you'd get one glimmer of hope, and you take one meeting, and out of those 10 meetings maybe you'd start one deal. And actually, it was very, it was just, like, very telling about yourself, like, what are you good at? And now I think, you know, as I think about entrepreneurship and because I meet so many founders, that skill of sales and storytelling, i- if you ain't got that, like, you can't do this job, right?

Jay Shetty 16:45 Mm.

Emma Grede 16:45 You can't. You can't sell to investors, you can't craft a story to customers, and you certainly can't get into the heart of, like, what makes a brand successful unless you can sell and storytell. And so again, it's just one of those things that I had to go through, but it was miserable getting there. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:01 [laughs] Totally.

Emma Grede 17:02 Beyond miserable.

Jay Shetty 17:03 I, I didn't realize how many different similarities we have in our backgrounds.

Emma Grede 17:06 Oh, really?

Jay Shetty 17:07 It's unbelievable. So I worked at the Business Design Center for a bit.

Emma Grede 17:09 Oh, did you?

Jay Shetty 17:10 And I did, I did, like, internships then.

Emma Grede 17:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 17:11 I worked there over the summer and stuff, and all I had to do was sit there and call to sell the stands.

Emma Grede 17:16 Oh my gosh.

Jay Shetty 17:17 'Cause, you know, they'd have all the different-

Emma Grede 17:18 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 17:18 ... stands for, like, the bike show or the, there'd be fashion shows.

Emma Grede 17:21 It's formative.

Jay Shetty 17:22 Yeah.

Emma Grede 17:22 It really is.

Jay Shetty 17:23 And I remember the cold call, and I look back at that and I remember before then I was so s- I was quite introverted.

Emma Grede 17:28 Shy.

Jay Shetty 17:28 I was quite shy. And, and then all of a sudden when you're doing like 300 cold calls a day-

Emma Grede 17:33 No, no, no. It's gone. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:33 ... it, it goes away.

Emma Grede 17:34 It's gone.

Jay Shetty 17:34 And it's amazing how so much can be, like, removed from, not your personality, but these kind of fear and insecurities that we often as a, have as a kid.

Emma Grede 17:43 100%,

Emma Grede 17:44 and I feel like even now, you know, when I think about fear and what that's meant in my career so much, 'cause it's actually been helpful in so many ways. Like, I always think about myself now, and I'm like, you know, it's like if I am not a little bit scared about what I'm doing, like, even coming here today, right, it's like then I'm not growing. Like, I'm not moving forward. I'm not going in the right direction. And so now I find myself looking for the fear. I'm like, "What can I do that's gonna scare me?" 'Cause, like, I know how to make jeans. I can make you fantastic knickers all day long. But actually, like, branching out and trying to do something else is the stuff that keeps us as humans growing, and I think about that all the time, because I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear and failing. And, you know, I, I was a school j- I dropped out of school when I was 15 or 16. I can't actually remember. It must've been 15. But, you know, that always left me with this kind of inferiority complex that I wasn't educated enough. I'd work in London around all of these, like, very hoity-toity wonderful people that were fresh out of Cambridge and Oxford, and had these wonderful educations, and I always felt a bit inferior for that. I was like, "I'm gonna get caught. They're gonna find out that I don't, you know, have that educational background. I don't speak in the right way." And, you know, I feel like for so long that held me back until I realized, no, no, no, that's my fuel. That's what makes me, me, and if I'm not a little bit scared, now I find myself just actually looking for it, 'cause I know I need that fire in my belly, like, the whole time.

Jay Shetty 19:17 Did you ever feel that anyone ever made you feel inferior because of a lack of the formal education?

Emma Grede 19:23 I'm-

Jay Shetty 19:23 Or was it an internal-

Emma Grede 19:24 I'm sure they did-

Jay Shetty 19:25 Yeah

Emma Grede 19:25 ... but it was much stronger-

Jay Shetty 19:26 In you

Emma Grede 19:26 ... the internal voice, right? It's like I don't think anybody... You know what it's like. When you're in London, there is such a class system, right?

Jay Shetty 19:32 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 19:32 And people know immediately. They, in, in this country, they think you and I sound like the Queen.

Jay Shetty 19:36 Yeah.

Emma Grede 19:36 And we know in reality we don't, babe. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:38 [laughs] Definitely not.

Emma Grede 19:39 And in London, any English people listening to that, us, absolutely know that. And so there is always that you open your mouth, and immediately you're judging, you know exactly where I'm from, and you can attribute a set of circumstances to that. But I think it was much more about the voice in my own head, and I, I think about that an awful lot now in the way that I've set up my life and my businesses. And you know, I believe very much in this idea, like, this rule of thirds, right? I think about it constantly. You know, when you are doing something very difficult or you are chasing a dream, you're gonna be happy about a third of the time. You're gonna feel okay about a third of the time. And the other third of the time, you're gonna feel pretty crappy.

Jay Shetty 20:20 Mm.

Emma Grede 20:21 You are going to feel bad, and if the ratios get out of whack and things are not actually, you're too happy, you're probably not pushing yourself hard enough.

Jay Shetty 20:29 Mm.

Emma Grede 20:30 And if, you know, you're actually spending too much time, you're probably not, you know, you're not thinking about it right. But I do think that that lean in that I've had my whole life, like, the idea that I shouldn't be comfortable and happy all of the time actually really helps me so much, and I think about that idea of the third and the third and the third, and it doesn't scare me anymore. I'm like, "Oh, I'm just having one of the days that is my crappy day." That's okay, 'cause what I'm doing isn't straightforward. It isn't what everybody's doing, and it's supposed to be difficult. It's supposed to be heavy. It's supposed to not be comfortable all the time. And I think that that, for me, has been a way that I can actually get through those times that are a bit more tricky.

Jay Shetty 21:13 You know, I love that. I've never heard someone say it like that before.

Emma Grede 21:15 Oh, really? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 21:16 Yeah, that's such a unique way of thinking about it. So you said the, the thirds are okay-

Emma Grede 21:20 Yeah

Jay Shetty 21:20 ... happy-

Emma Grede 21:21 Yeah

Jay Shetty 21:21 ... and then terrible.

Emma Grede 21:21 And then terrible.

Jay Shetty 21:22 Yeah.

Emma Grede 21:22 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 21:22 And I, that's so spot on, and I've never heard someone break it down like that simply.

Emma Grede 21:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 21:27 And, and-

Emma Grede 21:27 Well, I am a very simple girl, you know, that's- [laughs]

Jay Shetty 21:30 [laughs]

Emma Grede 21:30 I have to break it down like that for myself.

Jay Shetty 21:32 Yeah.

Emma Grede 21:32 But you know, it's really helpful because I think in any, in any part of your life, like, there is, especially now because I work with so many people, there is this idea... And also, you know, I'm a mom of four, right? So there is this part of me that's like, "I just want my kids to be all right and to be happy all the time." And I'm like, actually, no, because it's in those moments, and you know this more than anyone, of challenge, of difficulty, that's when you grow the most. But we shouldn't, rather than, like, trying to remove that from my children or take those times away from my employees or think that's not okay, it's like, no, no, no, guys. Like, that's what it's about, and if you're coasting through life and doing something, like, really simplistic, fine. You might just feel all right all the time. But I am so happy when the good is good that I'll take the okay and the bad.

Jay Shetty 22:16 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 22:16 You know?

Jay Shetty 22:16 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 22:17 It's worth it because it actually all comes out-

Jay Shetty 22:19 Yeah

Emma Grede 22:19 ... even in the end, you know?

Jay Shetty 22:20 For sure. When,

Jay Shetty 22:21 when you were chasing the dreams back in the day or, like, trying to build it up, were you dating? Did you care about that? Was that like-

Emma Grede 22:27 Did I care?

Jay Shetty 22:27 'Cause now obviously you have a beautiful family. Yeah.

Emma Grede 22:29 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:29 Now you obviously have a beautiful family. You, you have a wonderful partner. You have four kids, as you said, like, but I wonder then, like, I feel like a lot of us spend a lot of our teens-

Emma Grede 22:37 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 22:38 ... and our 20s thinking about love.

Emma Grede 22:39 Totally.

Jay Shetty 22:40 Was that how you were too or?

Emma Grede 22:41 100%.

Jay Shetty 22:42 [laughs]

Emma Grede 22:42 I don't think I've ever been without a boyfriend. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:44 [laughs]

Emma Grede 22:45 I'm a person that needs a someone, and I-

Jay Shetty 22:47 Yeah

Emma Grede 22:47 ... you know, I, I went around a little bit, and I keep, I'm, I'm very, I was very happy to settle down at 25, 26. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:54 Yeah.

Emma Grede 22:54 I don't feel like I missed out. You know, because we started so early, I feel like, you know, I was, like, out in the clubs when I was 13, 14.

Jay Shetty 23:01 Certainly, yeah.

Emma Grede 23:01 And then I had this stint in Ibiza when I was asked to leave school. So it's like I've had a lot of living before I got there, and I, I think that I've always been someone that has chased love. Like, I love that feeling, but as you get older, you realize, you know, what that really means. Like, n- today it's like I wanna be loved back, but it's not all about that rush. You know, it's like I've been with my husband now for s- 15 years, married for 11, and the things that I value have completely shifted, right?

Jay Shetty 23:34 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 23:35 It's like, and we've been on a journey together, and I think that in life you need chapters, and just as the same, you know, like in career and you need, you know, needing transitions and to transform, relationships need chapters like that too. The first five years we traveled the world. We partied. We got drunk. We, like, did all the things that you do, and then we went through a period of having children, and that's extremely challenging on any relationship, especially while the two of you are enormously ambitious. And I think that what I have with my husband is this extremely unique partnership where he always understood that I was ambitious and I needed to do things, and he's completely supported that. And I think that the love that I have for him has grown exponentially because we've been sti- I've still been able to chase all of my dreams outside of the relationship and the family structure while having someone really support me do that.

Jay Shetty 24:30 Mm. That's, uh, yeah, we won't, we won't go down the stint in Ibiza that came up. [laughs]

Emma Grede 24:35 [laughs] No? It's really fun.

Jay Shetty 24:36 Go on. What, what, what?

Emma Grede 24:38 The Greta calling part. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 24:39 Go on. Go on. Tell me.

Emma Grede 24:40 No, I just feel like-

Jay Shetty 24:41 Yeah

Emma Grede 24:41 ... you know, it's like you, you have, there's a part of my life where I think there was a need to escape, you know?

Jay Shetty 24:48 Mm.

Emma Grede 24:48 And I found that I was a real club kid. That's what I enjoyed. I wanted to go out. For me, it was actually never about getting smashed, but it was, like, the music and those super late nights and the, like, that whole community of it. Like, I was friends with the DJs and the MCs, and you know, like, I was on the list, and, like, I did that whole thing. And I think that was a huge formative part of my childhood, like I would not... Or, or not my childhood, my kind of late teens, early 20s. Like, I needed to go and get Like, remove myself from, from what my kind of everyday life and my upbringing was, and it kind of introduced me to a lot of alternative things and people and ways of being. And you know, it's like you go to Ibiza, you, you learned yoga for the first time. I was like, "Well, what's this?" Nobody I knew in Plaistow was doing yoga, you know?

Jay Shetty 25:34 I didn't know anyone in Ibiza was doing yoga either. [laughs]

Emma Grede 25:36 [laughs] North of the island, babe.

Jay Shetty 25:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 25:38 [laughs] But you know, it was like, there's just-

Jay Shetty 25:41 Yeah

Emma Grede 25:41 ... there's things that I think that part of my life really opened me up to, and I, I felt like in some ways, even though I saw a lot as a kid and I was experienced to some pretty kind of gruesome things, there was a whole part of life and sort of a, a, a way of living and a, a, a, a kind of level of peace and understanding of people that was not ever explained to me and was not part of my childhood and my upbringing, and I learned that much later.

Jay Shetty 26:10 Hm. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. It's, it's, uh, it's so... Yeah, it's so interesting. Again, we, we often feel like the next chapter will be better.

Emma Grede 26:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:21 And you've just broke it down and said, "Well, no, actually, there's gonna be every chapter, and every chapter has its reason-"

Emma Grede 26:26 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 26:27 ... and it has its story.

Emma Grede 26:28 Yes.

Jay Shetty 26:28 And, and you just said, "I, I love that I live life that way, and then when I met my partner, I knew it, knew it was gonna work." And even that's had so many chapters inside of it.

Emma Grede 26:35 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 26:36 What would you... How would your mum describe what she saw as a little girl to who she sees now?

Emma Grede 26:43 I think she'd say same same. I was always a pain for everyone around me, you know? I literally, I was that kid. I, I actually didn't, you know, I didn't have many fr- I wasn't, like, the popular kid, you know? My sisters were all massive athletes, hugely popular. I was a bit more of a loner. I had, like, you know, two or three really solid friends. Sounds exactly like today, actually.

Jay Shetty 27:05 [laughs]

Emma Grede 27:06 [laughs] But you know, it was like I was that kid. I was, like, in my own head. I've always been a dreamer, but you know, my mum would always say, she was like, "You're a dreamer, but you're a doer." And I always had those two things. I don't think I've changed that much, you know? I, I think about myself, I'm like, I've been absolutely the same since I was seven years old.

Jay Shetty 27:24 Hm.

Emma Grede 27:24 This is how I've always felt.

Jay Shetty 27:26 I love that.

Emma Grede 27:26 This is how I've always been.

Jay Shetty 27:27 That's epic.

Emma Grede 27:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:28 That's so cool. I wonder how you see that with now being a mum, too. Like, now when you're looking at your kids and-

Emma Grede 27:33 I know. You know, it's, it's wi-

Jay Shetty 27:33 ... their personalities and

Emma Grede 27:34 ... it's wild because I think, like so many mums, especially mothers that work in the same way that I do, right? You're kind of plagued by this idea of what you're supposed to be and do as a mother. And because I grew up with a mum that left the house every day, that went to work, I have maybe a different idea of what I'm supposed to be providing for those kids. I think it's really important that my children see me living out my dreams, and hopefully they'll do the same for themselves. But you know, everybody, the q- the question always kind of boils down to, like, how do you do it all? And I really think it's important to dispel that myth of doing it all, because women have been really sold a crock of crap. Like, it's like you, you can't have it all, all the time, and my life is a series of trade-offs, right? That's just a fact. I'm not the mum who is at the school gate. I'm not there for pick-up and drop-off. I'm not at the school gala. Hopefully, my kids get something else from me, which is a sense of actually living out your dreams and what you're supposed to do, and I think that they will see that and really appreciate having that from me. But I think it's very important that we stop talking about this idea of, like, balance, because there is no balance in my life. Like, it, it's, it's rubbish, you know? It's like I have to go wherever the energy is that morning, and my children have to fit around that. Nothing's changed. Uh, like I said, I'm still the same, the same person. And four children, yes, it changes the, the kind of, you know, uh, routine of your day, but it doesn't change who you are fundamentally. And I am one of those person, people that think, you know, my children have to fit around me.

Jay Shetty 29:18 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 29:18 And, and that's just a fact.

Jay Shetty 29:20 Yeah.

Emma Grede 29:20 You know? It just, it is what it is.

Jay Shetty 29:22 Yeah, and I'll say as, as a kid who grew up with a mum who was working that hard and, like, had her... So, so my mum trained to be a financial advisor so that she could be self-employed, as-

Emma Grede 29:35 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 29:35 ... we called it. In s- she was an entrepreneur, but-

Emma Grede 29:37 Totally

Jay Shetty 29:38 ... the language wasn't there.

Emma Grede 29:38 She could manage her own time, right?

Jay Shetty 29:39 Yeah, so she could manage-

Emma Grede 29:40 That was it

Jay Shetty 29:40 ... her own time-

Emma Grede 29:41 Absolutely

Jay Shetty 29:41 ... so she could be there for us.

Emma Grede 29:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:42 So my mum would make us breakfast, drop us to school, pack lunch.

Emma Grede 29:45 That's amazing.

Jay Shetty 29:46 And then she'd go to work.

Emma Grede 29:47 Superwoman.

Jay Shetty 29:48 Pick us up, feed us, and then go back out to work, and sometimes I'd join her. I'd go out with her in the car. I'd sit with her-

Emma Grede 29:53 My son's in my office today

Jay Shetty 29:54 ... when she was with clients.

Emma Grede 29:55 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 29:56 And then, and she'd avoid me.

Emma Grede 29:57 It's amazing. I know, I know. I should have.

Jay Shetty 29:58 I would love that. Yeah.

Emma Grede 29:59 I should have.

Jay Shetty 30:00 And, and it's just, I saw my mum be so active.

Emma Grede 30:03 Yes.

Jay Shetty 30:03 My mum was never, she wasn't around, like, just hanging around the house. She wasn't available in that way. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying my mum wasn't. And as someone who grew up with a mum like that, like, not only do I love and respect my mum insanely-

Emma Grede 30:16 Insane

Jay Shetty 30:16 ... I also just saw that it, you could still feel loved without having loads of time.

Emma Grede 30:23 100%.

Jay Shetty 30:24 And, and I-

Emma Grede 30:24 Because it's about quality, right? I always think about that. My kids need me, like, in a 100% capacity, like, not half looking at my phone, not half doing work, not surrounded by lots of people in the house. And I really try to think about them as individuals, because I have a boy and a girl, and then boy-girl twins. And I like to do things with my kids individually so that I can really understand who they are and what their needs are, not like this sort of, like, family pack, you know?

Jay Shetty 30:51 [laughs]

Emma Grede 30:51 'Cause it very, very quickly-

Jay Shetty 30:52 Just one kid

Emma Grede 30:52 ... becomes that. I'm like, "Ar, like, all of you in the car." Um, but I think that, you know, again, when you grow up in a big family, you, you have ideas and experiences of how it wasn't so great-

Jay Shetty 31:04 [laughs]

Emma Grede 31:04 ... and what you'd wanna do differently, and so I try to apply that. But I think for, for most women, it's really, it's really important to just level, like, lower the expectations a little bit-

Jay Shetty 31:18 Mm

Emma Grede 31:18 ... and be honest with ourselves about what we're capable of, because it's really something that I think there's so much being thrown at women all the time about what you should do and how you should advocate for yourself and, you know, and, and it quite frankly is just too much.

Jay Shetty 31:34 Mm.

Emma Grede 31:34 It is not feasible. It is not something that we can all cope with, and I think that you do what you do to get through the day, and we should all just, like, lower the expectation levels a little bit. That isn't to say lower your ambition level, but that's just to say, don't, don't feel bad about what you're doing. At the end of it, it's like we all do as much as we can, and our kids will all be all right.

Jay Shetty 31:57 Yeah.

Emma Grede 31:57 They don't need us to usher them through every experience in the day.

Jay Shetty 32:01 And they'll be who they are.

Emma Grede 32:02 They'll be who they are.

Jay Shetty 32:03 How did you make peace with that? Because I feel like I ag- I love that perspective, and I'm sure it's gonna help so many people, but I think people struggle with this we love being the controller-

Emma Grede 32:12 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:12 ... we love making sure everything's right. We also are so hard on ourselves-

Emma Grede 32:16 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:16 ... as you were just saying, because people were hard on us, and now we think we need to be supermom, and maybe our mom did it or maybe our auntie did it, whatever. I think there's a lot of people who are just like, "I get that, but I don't know how to make peace with that."

Emma Grede 32:30 100%. You know, it's a great question, and I always think about, I'm somebody that's absolutely, like, fixated and fascinated by memories, right? I always, like, go back and I think about, like, the big, important things in my life. What, what did I really enjoy from last year? What were the moments that, like, are here in my memory? And when you do that, it very rarely has anything to do with any level of perfection. The best moments are the sporadic moments that were unplanned.

Jay Shetty 32:56 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 32:56 When you're sitting there, the kids are a mess, you're in the garden, something happened that just made it so, and it's never the moments that you kind of forced. It's never the things that you planned. It's never the ones that you've spent, like, all your energy on. And so I think that it just becomes about, like, this great, like, you've gotta weigh it up, right?

Jay Shetty 33:14 Yeah.

Emma Grede 33:14 You've gotta weigh up, like, what is worth it, and what, where do you derive enjoyment from? And I think anyone who looks at their life will actually find that it's in the small stuff. It's in those moments that you just let it all go. And so I think it's really, it's such a good exercise, especially for women and moms to just kind of backtrack and say, "In the last 12 months, what were the single best moments that you had?" And then you will absolutely not stress about whatever it is that is weighing you down today.

Jay Shetty 33:47 Mm.

Emma Grede 33:47 'Cause it's never what you think.

Jay Shetty 33:48 Mm.

Emma Grede 33:48 Ever.

Jay Shetty 33:49 Mm.

Emma Grede 33:49 It never has been for me.

Jay Shetty 33:50 Yeah. And don't judge the moment, right? Like, we can, we're so quick to be like, "Oh, I just, I said the wrong thing."

Emma Grede 33:58 Totally.

Jay Shetty 33:58 And all of a sudden, "I said the wrong thing" becomes, "I messed up today."

Emma Grede 34:02 Yeah. "I shouldn't be here. I don't belong. I'm not supposed to be part of it." And it's so interesting. I remember, like, there's this brilliant story about when Oprah was going through this, like, crazy, crazy time in her life, and she turns up at Quincy Jones' house for busine- uh, for dinner, and she said to him, "Oh my God, like, it's so terrible. It's so awful. Have you seen the press?" And da-da-da. And he's like, "What are you talking about?" He hadn't seen anything, right?

Jay Shetty 34:24 [laughs]

Emma Grede 34:24 Because at the end of the day, no one's watching you. No one's watching you like you're watching you. Most of your mistakes is in private. And so I often think about that because it's like everybody's so bothered about their own stuff-

Jay Shetty 34:36 Mm

Emma Grede 34:36 ... and what's going on in their head, they're not thinking about you.

Jay Shetty 34:39 Yeah.

Emma Grede 34:39 And so sometimes you just have to release a little bit, and I always try to think about, like, what is real and what is ego, you know?

Jay Shetty 34:45 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 34:45 And so much of it is ego. So especially around the mom part, funnily enough, right? 'Cause we're all trying to do and be better than what we had, and change things for our children, and be this impossible, wonderful, perfect mother, and that's nothing to do with your kids. 'Cause what your kids want is just a bit of you, in the most simple way. They don't care about any of that stuff. And so again, it really is that challenge of really sitting down and speaking to your children and thinking to yourself, like, what actually matters?

Jay Shetty 35:12 Mm.

Emma Grede 35:12 And I think it's, like, those small moments.

Jay Shetty 35:15 Yeah. Yeah. That's well said. And, and, and as I said, as someone who received a lot of that from my mom, I, I felt like I never doubted whether my mom loved me or not.

Emma Grede 35:25 No.

Jay Shetty 35:25 Whether she could come to my rugby game or not, or whether she could come and watch me at the class rehearsals or dramas or whatever we were doing, if she was there or she wasn't there, that wasn't how I felt loved or not loved.

Emma Grede 35:36 You knew she loved you.

Jay Shetty 35:37 Yeah.

Emma Grede 35:37 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 35:38 Yeah, because it was so, it's, it, it's such a core part of my life. I feel today I have, like, so much love to give because of how much my mom loved me.

Emma Grede 35:45 100%.

Jay Shetty 35:46 And it's not that she was there every moment.

Emma Grede 35:47 100%.

Jay Shetty 35:48 So yeah. And, and on the flip side, I'm sure there's people who s- would think, "God, my parents were around all the time," and, and, and I didn't necessarily feel connec-

Emma Grede 35:55 And you didn't necessarily connect, exactly.

Jay Shetty 35:56 Yeah, I didn't necessarily feel connected.

Emma Grede 35:58 That is so it.

Jay Shetty 35:58 Yeah. You've talked about this before, and I really like it, this whole idea of, like, you can't have it all, and everyone's always talking about balance, and I agree with you. I don't think balance exists either, even in my life, because I often get that, "Oh, Jay, mindfulness and meditation." I'm like, but that's not balance.

Emma Grede 36:10 No.

Jay Shetty 36:10 Like, you're actually constantly using these tools and techniques to be back at a point of-

Emma Grede 36:16 Zero. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:17 ... equanimity. Yeah, exactly.

Emma Grede 36:18 Exactly. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:18 Yeah, to be back at a point of equanimity, but there isn't this idealized balance.

Emma Grede 36:22 No.

Jay Shetty 36:23 When it comes to, you know, you and your partner, you both have great careers. You do some things together, lots of things in- individually.

Emma Grede 36:29 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 36:29 Like, how does that, like, I guess my question there is: What is the one thing you both need from each other that allows you to stay connected whilst having collective empires, individual empires, and then a beautiful family as well on top of all of that?

Emma Grede 36:45 I honestly think that just comes down to love, because it's different things in different moments, and if you really, really love someone, then you do what they need in that moment, whether or not it's good for you right then or what you might have discussed, right? That comes down to, do I really love this person and want the best for them in this thing, this moment, this decision? And more than anything, you know, I have such an admiration for my husband in so many different ways, in how he thinks and how he approaches things and what type of father he is. And, you know, love does lots of different things, but, you know, usually it grows or it dwindles, right? [laughs] It's like in relationships. And I think that mine is still growing, but it just comes down to the fact that I love him. It isn't any more complicated than that. We have lots of things that we do together, and I do think there is a huge thing of this idea of chapters and having projects together. You know, to some extent children are that, because you go through this like, you know, trying to get pregnant, and then being pregnant, and then having the baby and those early days, and then those stories about those early days, and then buying houses together and doing those houses up. And so there is this element. And with us, we've also had the businesses that to some degree and in some businesses we've done those things together. And so there have been these chapters and these projects that have been extremely, I'd say, pivotal in our life. And you often see that, that when, you know, couples have kids that fly the nest, it's like suddenly they don't have a project anymore.

Jay Shetty 38:17 Mm.

Emma Grede 38:17 It's like everything's done, and they're like, "Okay, we don't have anything." So we have that together. But I feel like in my life I'm extremely ritualistic, you know? That's just how I am, and there's parts of our relationship that have taken on some of those rituals-

Jay Shetty 38:31 Mm

Emma Grede 38:32 ... in terms of, you know, how we think about time just us and not with the children, how we think about setting up our mornings, and those things become sort of bedrocks and foundations that for our, for what I think is like a healthy relationship.

Jay Shetty 38:47 Yeah. Well, what, what I really gain from what you're saying right now, and I hope everyone's listening and taking notes too, 'cause there's so many great, great insights that are like you're just sprinkling them everywhere.

Emma Grede 38:55 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:55 And I'm, I'm like trying to catch them. And there, there's, I love the idea that if you value a relationship in your life, your relationship's only as good as the stories you've lived together and the memories you've made, and if you stop making stories and memories with people, then you're constantly living in the past.

Emma Grede 39:12 Exactly, which is so unhealthy.

Jay Shetty 39:14 Yeah.

Emma Grede 39:14 And so, and you've seen that in so many friendships, right? When you're no longer creating together, you have nothing but your old memories, and after a while that just dwindles. So you need to consistently create, and that can be big things or small things. It can be building a, you know, shed in your back garden, but something that you live out together-

Jay Shetty 39:31 Yeah

Emma Grede 39:31 ... and you see to fruition, and you create and you make. And I think that that's a really important part of, of relationships.

Jay Shetty 39:38 Yeah, and to keep doing that.

Emma Grede 39:39 And to keep doing it.

Jay Shetty 39:40 And keep getting excited together about something.

Emma Grede 39:42 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Shetty 39:43 And yeah, rather than just like, "How was your day?" And then you're talking about your own world, and then their world.

Emma Grede 39:46 Yeah

Jay Shetty 39:46 And it's-

Emma Grede 39:47 And all of that separation, you know? And that's how so many couples I think where it goes wrong, you're kind of living out the most exciting parts of your life entirely separately. And I feel with us, you know, it's like we just bought a cold plunge.

Jay Shetty 40:00 Yeah.

Emma Grede 40:00 And like the cold plunge has become the thing, right? We're literally just like, "How many minutes are you gonna do? How many minutes are you gonna do? Oh my God, are you gonna put your head under?" Like, you know, but it becomes this thing that you're living-

Jay Shetty 40:09 Yeah

Emma Grede 40:09 ... out together, and now we'll be like cold plunge bullies to all of our friends, you know?

Jay Shetty 40:12 Yeah.

Emma Grede 40:13 But e- e- even something so small like that can be so, like, magical for a relationship, 'cause you're-

Jay Shetty 40:19 Totally

Emma Grede 40:20 ... learning and pushing and doing something together.

Jay Shetty 40:23 Yeah, we do the same and we've-

Emma Grede 40:24 Do you?

Jay Shetty 40:24 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 40:25 No, you don't. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:25 Yeah, we do. But my wife-

Emma Grede 40:27 So LA, Jay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:28 My wife will wa- she's so good in the cold.

Emma Grede 40:31 No she's not.

Jay Shetty 40:31 She's so good.

Emma Grede 40:33 I'm so jealous.

Jay Shetty 40:33 And so I can't even try to be her, 'cause-

Emma Grede 40:35 Well, I married a Swedish man.

Jay Shetty 40:37 Oh, God. [laughs]

Emma Grede 40:37 So I feel like I'm at a disadvantage, like, from the outset.

Jay Shetty 40:40 Yeah.

Emma Grede 40:40 I'm like, "You were basically born in the ice."

Jay Shetty 40:42 [laughs]

Emma Grede 40:42 Like, come on. Like, of course you're better at this than I am. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:45 That's amazing. And then we've been playing pickleball as well. That's our other thing.

Emma Grede 40:49 Oh, pickle- oh, well I love that.

Jay Shetty 40:49 Have you played yet? It's so fun.

Emma Grede 40:50 I have a pickleball court, but I don't think I'm gonna be [laughs] ... I don't think I'm gonna be on it anytime soon.

Jay Shetty 40:55 Well, well, it's so fun. You would love it.

Emma Grede 40:55 You guys can come over and you can show us how it's done.

Jay Shetty 40:58 There we go. It's so much fun.

Emma Grede 40:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:59 And again, it's just doing, taking on a new project and you-

Emma Grede 41:01 Totally

Jay Shetty 41:02 ... you know, whatever it may be. You've, I love that you were saying that you love memories, and that you kind of-

Emma Grede 41:06 I do

Jay Shetty 41:06 ... almost have a memory bank. I was gonna ask you,

Jay Shetty 41:09 do you think there's a memory in your life that you've kind of like locked away or hidden away that you kind of like, it's almost like, have you seen that movie Inception?

Emma Grede 41:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:18 And it's like he locks it away in the basement, and he never goes there because it, it kind of, it has, sometimes it can be good, bad, it can be anything, but do you have a memory you've locked away?

Emma Grede 41:26 I think I probably have a lot of memories that I've locked away and, um, you know, it's really interesting. I, we should have maybe done this podcast, like, in a month. I'm gonna go to the Hoffman Institute.

Jay Shetty 41:36 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 41:36 I think I have an enormous amount of that in my life. And I said to you earlier, you know, I think if you're not, I think about my life in terms of, like, practice, right? It's like I'm practicing every day, like, who I wanna be, and I think that that's a great way to teach my children, because they do what they see. And I never beat myself up about my past, who I've been, my background, where I came from, because I know that I'm constantly moving and evolving, and I feel like if you're not working on yourself then you're not really living. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the purpose of my life is to explore how I can be the best version of me, and I don't just mean that in business, I mean in every single facet of my life. How can I be the best mum, and the best wife, and the best boss? Like, all of those things, like, mean a lot to me, but it takes work and it takes practice, and I don't get it right every single day. And when I think, to answer your question about memories and things I've locked away, it's when I've not been proud of my behavior, but those are always things that I am willing to kind of hold my hands up to and, and work on, and I feel like I've done, especially now I live here. You know, you come and you do the work, right? It's like it's just the grown-up thing to do, and I feel like that's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed being in LA so much, is because I've had this whole, obviously all the success with the businesses, but on this other side I've had this huge, um, awakening in terms of who I am and who I'm supposed to be and how I'm evolving as a person. And so I really feel like those are things that I'm still exploring, and I will be until the day I die, you know?

Jay Shetty 43:20 Yeah.

Emma Grede 43:20 I'm always in learning mode.

Jay Shetty 43:21 I love that. And you're invited back afterwards as well.

Emma Grede 43:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 43:23 So you don't have to worry about-

Emma Grede 43:24 With a crying version. [wails]

Jay Shetty 43:25 Yeah, we get... No, no.

Emma Grede 43:26 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 43:26 What I mean is, I hope this is not gonna be the last time you come, but, um, what, what's

Jay Shetty 43:31 a memory that you'd love to relive or you revisit often mentally, and you close your eyes and you're like Yeah, I'm there. Like, I'd love to live that again because it was so-

Emma Grede 43:40 You know, it's so crazy. I think it's probably, I mean, feel so bad on my kids, but the birth of my first child.

Jay Shetty 43:46 Yeah.

Emma Grede 43:46 Like, that was so insane and amazing, and it's really funny because women, like, often say, like, everything changed then. You know, it's like s- And I... And for me, everything changed in that moment. I remember having just had Gray, and Jens was holding him on, like, you know, the side of the bed, and I thought, "I have got to get out of this bed and go to the office." And that's all-

Jay Shetty 44:09 Wow

Emma Grede 44:09 ... I could think in my head, 'cause it was like all of a sudden I had the reason I was doing all of this stuff for, and it never become more clear to me than in that moment. I was like, "Okay, like, now real life starts."

Jay Shetty 44:22 Wow. [laughs]

Emma Grede 44:22 Yeah, yeah. That's really how I felt.

Jay Shetty 44:24 Yeah.

Emma Grede 44:24 I was like, " [gasps] Get me back, like, into the office, like, immediately."

Jay Shetty 44:28 Oh my gosh.

Emma Grede 44:29 Now.

Jay Shetty 44:29 Yeah. Wow.

Emma Grede 44:30 Forget the baby.

Jay Shetty 44:30 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 44:30 Nothing, nothing about going home and, like, snuggling with my child.

Jay Shetty 44:34 Yeah.

Emma Grede 44:34 I was like, "I have a reason to do what I'm doing now."

Jay Shetty 44:36 And that can coexist with loving your kids to death, right?

Emma Grede 44:40 100%.

Jay Shetty 44:40 Like, yeah.

Emma Grede 44:40 Because again, like, you can be so many different things. It's like I am a super nurturing, hands-on mom, and I really enjoy motherhood. I just have other stuff that I like, too.

Jay Shetty 44:49 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 44:50 You know? It's like-

Jay Shetty 44:50 Why do you think we struggle to have those two ideas? Like, we almost-

Emma Grede 44:54 Well, because society has set it up that you're one or the other, right? You're either putting on your heels and, like, banging out the door and, like, don't see your kids and put them to bed, or you're like this really sweet mom. It's like, no, I'm both.

Jay Shetty 45:03 Yeah.

Emma Grede 45:03 I'm actually everything. I am every woman. Like s- just, like, tough. It, it, do you know, it's like I think that actually what it is that, uh, you know, there are all of these, like, misconceptions about what you are allowed to be, and I don't think we put those same things on men. Because men can be, like, totally in the office and killing the deal and, like, then just be this, like, incredible dad throwing, like, a football on the weekend. It's like you're fully allowed, and it's fine. But for women it's not so fine. And so, you know, so much of what I do in my work and my businesses and actually just sort of trying to be honest about me and, and how I operate is to dispel a lot of those myths. Because I do think that we are not one-dimensional, and you can be so many different things and, and also so many different things to different people. You know, I'm one person to my husband and one to my kids, and if you were to come in my office, I think they'd give you a whole different version of me. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:01 [laughs]

Emma Grede 46:01 Like it all over. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:02 Yeah. [laughs] It's true, though. We all have to... There's all different facets to each part of ourselves.

Emma Grede 46:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:08 And I wonder-

Emma Grede 46:09 But it's about the level of acceptance, right? Like, are you, are you allowed to be that, and is it accepted? And that's why, you know, Jay, it's so interesting. I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast where a man has been asked about imposter syndrome, not once. It is a question that is the special reserve for women, as is the question of balance. No one says, "Hey, Jens. How are you balancing it all, the brands and the business and the kids?" No one says that to my husband. But they-

Jay Shetty 46:36 I'm glad I didn't ask both those questions. [laughs]

Emma Grede 46:38 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:38 I just ran out of there.

Emma Grede 46:38 No, but they say it to me every day, every single day. "Oh, what is it like to be a Black woman in business?" I'm like, "What kind of question is that?" You know? But there are things that for women just, like, we're still not able to get over this idea that we have in our heads that we can't be many things to many people.

Jay Shetty 46:58 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 46:58 And I just don't believe in that at all.

Jay Shetty 47:00 Yeah. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. And, and, and I really feel that naturally all those questions are coming 'cause that's what people are scared about and insecure about and worried about, and it's, as you said, it's come because it's been created in society. I read a... There was this research paper a long time ago, and I won't get it absolutely accurate, but the point was that when men and women look at a job application, if men can do some of it, they'll apply.

Emma Grede 47:23 Oh, yeah. Sure.

Jay Shetty 47:24 And even if wo- if women can't do one part of it, they won't apply.

Emma Grede 47:27 I see that every single day in my own office, right? A guy will work for me for six months and come and ask me for a pay rise, and then I will say to a woman, "I don't think you've had a pay rise for, like, a year and a half." Like [laughs]

Jay Shetty 47:38 Wow.

Emma Grede 47:38 Do you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 47:39 Yeah.

Emma Grede 47:39 It's like, or somebody that will come in and say like, "I speak absolutely fluent Spanish," and a woman who's pretty 90% there-

Jay Shetty 47:45 Yeah [laughs]

Emma Grede 47:45 ... won't even mention it on their resume.

Jay Shetty 47:47 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 47:47 So there are those obvious things, and that's just about, you know, so many times for women there is this natural nurturers. We naturally play down our skills, and I think that that is just something that society has taught us. And so I think about it all the time. I'm quite the opposite, you know? I, I, I'll go in and pretend I can do anything in a, in a, in a pitch meeting.

Jay Shetty 48:13 [laughs]

Emma Grede 48:13 Or it's like I'll say what needs to say to get it done. Do you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 48:16 Yeah.

Emma Grede 48:17 Um, but I do think that for so many women there is this, like, sort of magical golden moment in your life where you're free of a lot of constraints. You know, maybe you don't have a mortgage, you don't have children yet. You're not in a really serious relationship, where there is this moment to be incredibly selfish. And for most women, when all of the responsibilities pile on, they stop doing that, and I think that actually just as women we would do better to be selfish for longer in our lives.

Jay Shetty 48:46 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 48:46 And that's the type of thing... And, and so many people will be like, "Oh, I just don't like the word. Like, can't you find another way to dress it up?" Absolutely no, because I mean what I say. You do have to think about yourself, because nobody else is thinking about that for you. Everybody else is too busy thinking about this themselves. And so this idea of being selfish shouldn't feel like such a foreign thing for women or a dirty word for women. It's like you have to be. There is no other way to get ahead and to do what you wanna do. You have to put your needs and your, uh, wants and your ambition first, because no one is gonna do that for you.

Jay Shetty 49:21 Yeah, and it's hard, isn't it? When, like you were saying, you've tried to be the boss that you didn't have.

Emma Grede 49:25 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 49:26 I can identify with that. I try and be the boss th- bosses that I didn't have, and I think it is really wonderful when you see a great relationship building with people you work with where they recognize you're being the boss that they never had as well, and you are too, and you're also realizing they're being a great ... person of your team that, that hasn't been like other people have been,

Jay Shetty 49:48 how have you learned to like sense that and know that when you're like, "Okay, well me and this person can go and build together and create together," or, "This is the right person to recruit onto my team" or like what are the things that you're looking at and trying to decipher? Because I think right now we do live in a world where also people are thinking about a job as a paycheck and they don't care.

Emma Grede 50:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:06 Whereas you're very passionate, you're very driven. You always have been since the deli. So it's like if you've cared that much about the deli and the sandwich, obviously you care so much about what you do today.

Emma Grede 50:16 Totally.

Jay Shetty 50:16 How, how do you do that?

Emma Grede 50:17 Well, you know, I think I'm really realistic, because you will have those people in your business that come to work with you literally because, you know, at Good American we are B Corp registered, right? And people feel like they wanna work in a company that cares about the environment, that cares about what they're putting out, and you'll get people that care about the mission and the vision and the values. But I don't expect that everybody will care. I know that there are some people that just come and they just want their paycheck. And so for me, I try to separate who I am and what I might need from what somebody else might need. I, my expectation is that not everybody's bouncing in there trying to kill it for me, right? I'm pretty sure that a lot of these people come in and they do their job and they're working on their side hustle-

Jay Shetty 50:59 [laughs]

Emma Grede 50:59 ... halfway through the day, and that's okay, you know? It's like that's not for everyone, and I think that as I've got older I've learned not to put my, uh, my type of ambition on, you know, or, or not to try to reflect that onto everybody that's around me.

Jay Shetty 51:16 Mm.

Emma Grede 51:16 And those people will of course, they'll rise to the top, they'll make themselves known, but it isn't for everybody.

Jay Shetty 51:21 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 51:21 You know? It's just, it's just a fact. And, and also you need that when you're building a team.

Jay Shetty 51:26 Totally.

Emma Grede 51:26 If everybody was an ambitious little monster, it would be a disaster.

Jay Shetty 51:28 [laughs]

Emma Grede 51:29 You know? You need people that are happy to come in, grind, do their job, and leave at 5:00.

Jay Shetty 51:33 Yeah.

Emma Grede 51:33 That's just facts.

Jay Shetty 51:34 Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Shetty 51:35 How did you make that leap? Like you just said earlier, I'm just connecting the dots, you were like, "I was never around anyone who was an entrepreneur-"

Emma Grede 51:42 Mm

Jay Shetty 51:42 ... who had their own business. Everyone worked a job."

Emma Grede 51:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 51:45 How did you-

Emma Grede 51:45 Accident, Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 51:46 Okay, go on.

Emma Grede 51:47 Accident. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:48 Go on.

Emma Grede 51:48 It was a total accident, because you know, I never set out to start my own company. I was frustrated that I wasn't being paid enough where I worked, and then was like, "All right. Well, if you don't like that, then you're gonna have to do something else." But I was also acutely aware that no one was gonna come and hand me a company on a plate, like, "Here's this company to run, [laughs] you, you person with no experience," and you know, kind of jumped up 24-year-old. And so I was very like acutely aware that I'd have to do it myself. Um, and that's where it came from. Like, you know, I'd love to say that I had this like great idea and this great ambition, but it came out of like frustration and not being paid enough and feeling like I wasn't getting the value back that I put in. That's the honest answer.

Jay Shetty 52:32 Yeah, no, and I think-

Emma Grede 52:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 52:33 ... that's very relatable. I think most people are in positions like that, but that doesn't lead to the courage-

Emma Grede 52:39 Yes, to do it

Jay Shetty 52:40 ... to go and b- to do it, because we feel like, "Well, what if it doesn't work?"

Emma Grede 52:43 Yes.

Jay Shetty 52:43 "What will my friends say?" What, you know, and all those kinda things that come up because we're scared. Even for me, like I remember I had a steady job and I was... I, this is after I'd left the monastery, I'd come back home, I'd finally found a steady job. I was dating my-

Emma Grede 52:58 It's such a good sentence, "After I left the monastery."

Jay Shetty 53:00 [laughs]

Emma Grede 53:00 Isn't it good?

Jay Shetty 53:01 It's just re-

Emma Grede 53:01 You should just try and wind that in anywhere

Jay Shetty 53:02 ... it's just real [laughs]

Emma Grede 53:03 I'd be like, "So after I left the monastery" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:06 [laughs] I was just trying to give-

Emma Grede 53:08 Sorry

Jay Shetty 53:08 ... context, Emma. This is, this is the British banter, like.

Emma Grede 53:11 Sorry. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:11 Emma's like fully... I love it. I love it.

Emma Grede 53:14 I don't have a sentence like that, and I want one. I might just st- take it.

Jay Shetty 53:18 After I-

Emma Grede 53:18 Just kinda like bang it out.

Jay Shetty 53:19 You've got Ibiza, you've got, uh-

Emma Grede 53:21 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:21 ... you've got plenty. Yeah. But no, the... So I was in this steady job and it was like I was dating my now wife, and I remember going, "This is not working for me."

Emma Grede 53:31 Mm.

Jay Shetty 53:32 Like, and I wasn't killing it and I wasn't doing badly, I was, I was, I was doing all right, but I just knew it wasn't my place.

Emma Grede 53:39 Yes.

Jay Shetty 53:39 And I remember, I probably spent two years there feeling that way.

Emma Grede 53:43 Totally. Totally.

Jay Shetty 53:44 Right? You kind of just-

Emma Grede 53:45 100%.

Jay Shetty 53:45 You're just thinking about it-

Emma Grede 53:46 Yeah

Jay Shetty 53:46 ... reflecting on it.

Emma Grede 53:47 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 53:47 You're like, "What do I do? What if it doesn't work?" And so walk us through that a little bit, because I think a lot of our listeners may actually be feeling that way. A lot of our audience is actually listening going, "You know what? I'd love to, I'd love..." Forget doing what Emma's done now, "I'd just love to get out of where I am now."

Emma Grede 54:03 Yeah, totally.

Jay Shetty 54:03 Because it's, it's... You know what I mean?

Emma Grede 54:04 I think the truth of it was that I've never been that scared of failing.

Jay Shetty 54:09 Yeah.

Emma Grede 54:09 Right? And for me, at that time in my life, I was making a, a small amount of money. It's fair to say that I didn't have any, you know, no one was relying on me to, to pay rent. Or I had a tiny, tiny little... I lived in like a high-rise in East London with no front door and a gate on the door. No oven, just a microwave. No fridge, I put my milk on the balcony. Just to paint the picture of like where I was at that time in my life. It was rough. And honestly, what I thought is that, "How could I lose?" Like at this point I could always go and get another similarly not inspiring job. And so that idea of like fear of not failing was really key, but I also was really... I've always been very honest with myself. Like, you know, everybody has a voice in their head, and some people have a voice that like chats them up. You know, it's like I do. But I also have that voice that's like, "Emma," like, "know what you don't know."

Jay Shetty 55:02 [laughs]

Emma Grede 55:02 Like, "Don't be too silly in this situation." So I think that I really, in that instance where I decided like, "Let's get out of this job and try to go and do something else," it was enough understanding of it wasn't that good where I was. If it really didn't work out, I could always get back into something like that. But also that, that thing that just says, "What happens if you don't do it?"

Jay Shetty 55:26 Mm.

Emma Grede 55:27 You know? Like for me, I was miserable, and I really saw a be- a life for myself, and I was like, "I will just regret this when I'm 35," for example.

Jay Shetty 55:36 Mm. Mm.

Emma Grede 55:36 And so it was really about just going like, you know, "No one's gonna take a chance on me. I have to take the chance on me, and then maybe someone else will be inspired to take a chance on me," which is ultimately what happened. I left that role, I got employed in another job, and then when I got into that job My now husband and business partner at the, at that time, they kind of saw me, and they were like, "Well, this girl's, like, kind of good. She has something." And they ended up being my first investors when I was 25 years old

Jay Shetty 56:06 That's incredible, isn't it?

Emma Grede 56:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 56:07 Yeah

Emma Grede 56:07 Which was, which was crazy, which to me, even at the time, it felt crazy. And I remember questioning, I was like, "Why would anyone invest in me?" And then I thought, "No, of course they'll invest in me. Who else you gonna invest in? Like, you might as well. I'm as good as anybody else out there." And that's when that thing started ticking in.

Jay Shetty 56:22 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 56:23 So I think sometimes you've just gotta not be too afraid to lose.

Jay Shetty 56:26 Yeah.

Emma Grede 56:26 And you know, the truth is, Jay, I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded. All right? We don't talk about that. That's not in the articles. I don't post that on Instagram. But that's just the facts. Like, I've made so many mistakes. Before I got here and had three very successful companies, I had a dog of an agency that I opened here, in a very successful business that was thriving in London and thriving in New York, and I opened an office in LA, and I embarrassed myself. I completely let the, you know, I let the company down, I let the board down, I let the staff down, I under-invested. I did all of the classic mistakes. And you know, at the time I felt like it was the end of, like, my company and my career, but it wasn't. It was just a failure. I've had lots of things like that happen, lots of, you know, public embarrassments and things that didn't work out, and it's, you know, sounds like such an obvious thing, but it's like, oh, well, how do you recover from that? And so for me it's, like, always been this thing of like, all right, well, I'll dust myself off. I've survived worse, you know? And I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing, you know?

Jay Shetty 57:30 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 57:30 It's like you see a lot of stuff go down, and you can get through things.

Jay Shetty 57:34 Yeah.

Emma Grede 57:34 And I think I'm pretty good at getting through things.

Jay Shetty 57:35 And this is that Quincy moment where I'm like, "I didn't even know."

Emma Grede 57:38 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 57:38 Like, you know? It's like...

Emma Grede 57:39 See? There you go.

Jay Shetty 57:39 Yeah, it's amazing.

Emma Grede 57:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 57:41 It's just like you just, you know, you... It's so fascinating how quickly we are... It's, it's so fascinating how quickly we point out people's faults and then forget about them.

Emma Grede 57:50 100%.

Jay Shetty 57:51 And, and it's so, that happens so fast.

Emma Grede 57:52 Because it's not as fun a story, right?

Jay Shetty 57:54 Yeah.

Emma Grede 57:55 People want... At the end of the day, I believe in, you know, the goodness of humans. We default want good n- good stuff for each other, and we wanna see each other win, and people are very happy to celebrate alongside you.

Jay Shetty 58:10 I agree.

Emma Grede 58:10 You're much more concerned about your failures. You're much more concerned about your fears than anybody else out there, and I think every now and again I kind of just have to tune myself back into, to that piece of it.

Jay Shetty 58:21 Yeah. And it sounds like, what I really like is that you've got this ability, and I've been watching the whole interview, and it's like you've got this ability to know what the different voices in your head are.

Emma Grede 58:30 Yes.

Jay Shetty 58:30 Like, you're very clear about, like, this is the one that's being real. This is the ego. This is giving me the hype that I need right now. Like...

Emma Grede 58:37 100%, but also, you know, I know their voices. I know they're not me.

Jay Shetty 58:40 Yeah.

Emma Grede 58:40 And I always knew that, because I have an ability, like, my whole superpower in life is about being able to turn it on and off. And so I am acutely aware that those are just things, and, that I have at my disposal, and sometimes they work to my advantage and sometimes they work to my disadvantage, but I don't think that it's me.

Jay Shetty 58:58 Mm.

Emma Grede 58:58 Does that make sense?

Jay Shetty 58:59 Yeah.

Emma Grede 58:59 Like, it's like I know who I am.

Jay Shetty 59:01 Yeah.

Emma Grede 59:01 I, like, and it ain't all of that. It's not the chatter.

Jay Shetty 59:04 Yeah.

Emma Grede 59:05 None of it. It's just I'm something else.

Jay Shetty 59:07 Yeah. It's g- I mean, that's a incredible distinction to know and have and build. Did that come from... Did you read something? Did you learn something? Or d- was it just you started listening to yourself? Did you spend a lot of time alone? I'm intrigued as to what you did to gain that skill, because it's a skill, and you're obviously aware of it.

Emma Grede 59:22 You know what, I think I'm just that, like, Oprah generation. Do you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 59:25 I saw-

Emma Grede 59:26 Like, you come home-

Jay Shetty 59:26 I'm in this weirdness, yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 59:27 Right? You come home every day from school.

Jay Shetty 59:29 Yeah.

Emma Grede 59:29 Oprah was on the TV telling you to be grateful. You think, "What do I have to be grateful for? Have you seen my house?"

Jay Shetty 59:33 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 59:33 "Have you seen my trainers? Uh, I need new shoes." Like, you know? And it's like I didn't get it then, but I started to believe it, and I started to read. You know, I am an avid reader. I read so much, everything, and always have, since I was 13. And again, it was that means of escapism. And so I started reading things like, you know, The Power of Now, or like, you know, like, all of these things that, like, Conversations With God. I remember-

Jay Shetty 59:59 Mm

Emma Grede 59:59 ... you know, it's like-

Jay Shetty 1:00:00 Neil Donald Walsch. Yeah

Emma Grede 1:00:00 ... I read that book and I was like, pow. Like, just blew my mind, 'cause I didn't know anybody that thought like that. Um, and so maybe I just absorbed it.

Jay Shetty 1:00:10 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:00:10 Bit of Oprah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:10 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:00:10 Bit of couple of books.

Jay Shetty 1:00:11 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:00:12 You know? And it, it went in. Like, I understood it.

Jay Shetty 1:00:14 No, it's as simple as that.

Emma Grede 1:00:15 And it made sense to me.

Jay Shetty 1:00:16 No, it's as simple as that. And I, the same generation. Like, we, I grew up in the same way, and it's so true how, like, these tiny little messages just-

Emma Grede 1:00:24 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:00:24 ... start connecting dots. And-

Emma Grede 1:00:25 100%

Jay Shetty 1:00:26 ... and that's kind of what kids are built on and-

Emma Grede 1:00:27 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:00:28 ... and young people are built on.

Emma Grede 1:00:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:29 It isn't... You could've heard the same thing at school every day, but because it wasn't simplified and easy and digestible-

Emma Grede 1:00:34 100%

Jay Shetty 1:00:35 ... you don't remember it.

Emma Grede 1:00:35 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:00:36 But you remember the random TV show you watched-

Emma Grede 1:00:38 Ex- exactly

Jay Shetty 1:00:38 ... that your parents had on in the background.

Emma Grede 1:00:39 Exactly. Right.

Jay Shetty 1:00:40 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:00:40 So true.

Jay Shetty 1:00:40 No, that's amazing. Yeah, no, I love, I love witnessing it in an interview with someone where you're like, wow, this person's so aware. And I wanna talk more about hopefully this is what you don't get to talk about m- as much or maybe, like you're saying, like, men get asked this stuff and maybe women don't. I'm intrigued. But, like, we were talking earlier, you're a brand marketing genius. Like, you're, you're, you're super attentive, aware, conscious. You have this ability to think about products and brand in a different way. How do you

Jay Shetty 1:01:08 select problems to solve? How do you choose which problems you want to work on and then make sure that you build something that actually solves that problem?

Emma Grede 1:01:17 I think about it in the sense of myself. I think it would be very difficult for me, and I'm not saying other people can't do it, but to do things that you can't relate to, right? So I always start with the idea that if it's a problem for me, likelihood is it's a problem for other people like me, whether that be, uh, other young women or other women in the middle of America. But it's like the starting point, it's always w- What do I find problematic? And then I think the lens and the, the kind of red thread that goes through all of my companies is this idea that... And again, I hate saying it because in the last kind of five years it's almost become like this sort of buzzword, but when we think about inclusivity in business and what that actually means, including and thinking about the most amount of people possible. When I started Good American, it was actually a reaction to this idea that so many women, women of color, plus-size women, are just completely left out of the fashion conversation. And why is their dollar any less valuable than anybody else's? And so I had worked in marketing for all of these years. For 15 years I grew this incredible agency, and I'd done castings and, you know, put projects and collaborations together for the biggest and best brands in the whole world. And I'd been part of actually falsifying an image of inclusivity. You know, it's like you have a group cast, you need a, a Black girl and an Asian girl, and then this and this and this. And actually, when you thought about the product, and when you thought about the senior management of those companies, it looked nothing like that, right? It just, the product didn't work for anyone over a certain size, and the boardrooms were just all made up of typically, like, white men making the decisions usually for women. And I just sort of thought to myself, "There must be a better way to start a company." But it came from problem-solving for myself.

Jay Shetty 1:03:14 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:03:15 And I go back to this idea of like, you know, when you think about businesses, it makes more sense that they would be geared towards serving more people. That's just good business, right?

Jay Shetty 1:03:28 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:03:28 Forget DE&I. Forget like, you know, this idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion doing some- being something that companies need to do now. It's just good business. And when I talk about it, this idea of inclusivity and diversity being a superpower in business, it's not something that I just say, it's something that I do. That's where the process actually starts. I'm thinking about how can I best serve customers, the most amount of people? And then when there's an acknowledgement of someone who isn't usually acknowledged, of course it goes without saying that suddenly they feel seen, they feel heard, and they're like, "I'm going with this girl. I'm going with this brand," because it's the first time anyone's spoken directly to them. And I think that that's such a, it's such an under-thought-about part of business. You know, people usually bolt it on at the end.

Jay Shetty 1:04:14 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:04:14 And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, it's right where you start." It's in the inception of those products. It's in making 32 sizes. It's in doing nine different shades. It's in the very, very beginnings of what you're creating. And then you can dress it up and make it look nice and put the right kind of branding on it. But actually, it starts way earlier than that. And so I, I actually think about customers in a way that I think most people don't.

Jay Shetty 1:04:41 Where did you, not learn that, but where did you learn to look to understand that? Obviously, it started with yourself.

Emma Grede 1:04:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:04:48 But I'm like, why didn't people do that before? 'Cause like you just said, it's better business, it's better financially.

Emma Grede 1:04:52 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:04:52 It makes more sense. It makes more people happy. What do you think blocks companies?

Emma Grede 1:04:56 It just comes from where decisions are being made.

Jay Shetty 1:04:58 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:04:58 Right? Because it's like you don't know what you don't know. And I've sat in enough rooms trying to pitch enough businesses to a group of people that aren't my end audience, and I have actually said in, in meetings before, "Maybe you should phone your wife or daughter."

Jay Shetty 1:05:11 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:05:11 Like, literally, like, "Phone them. Because you don't understand this because it's not for you." You know? And so I think that decisions are made in such a abstract way in most companies. And you know, you see this when, you know, companies make mistakes, right? We've seen a lot of, like, big fashion brands and big consumer brands make mistakes that have seemingly kind of come across as like, uh, insensitive, racist, completely misogynistic. That's just where a decision is made. A company isn't inherently racist, like the whole company. It's just the decision-making process is flawed, i.e., there's not enough people in the room of a different background-

Jay Shetty 1:05:49 Mm. Mm

Emma Grede 1:05:49 ... to say, "Hey, perhaps put the T-shirt on the other kid, like, then it won't be an issue." So I think that this just comes from the, the idea of like where are the decisions made in that company, and who's making the decisions? And I know that the more people you bring around the table from different backgrounds, we're not just talking about race here, we're talking about age, education, the full gambit, like, the better the company will be.

Jay Shetty 1:06:11 Yeah. That is such great... I, I love what you just said about asking someone [laughs] to call their partner or their daughter-

Emma Grede 1:06:17 Totally

Jay Shetty 1:06:17 ... or son or whatever it may be [laughs] because you're so right. Like, I think so many people sit in meetings, and they're looking around going, "These people don't know what they're talking about." Or like-

Emma Grede 1:06:28 No

Jay Shetty 1:06:28 ... they just don't understand.

Emma Grede 1:06:29 Totally.

Jay Shetty 1:06:29 How have you maintained like... I guess the question is, how many of those meetings have, did you have to sit in until you felt like, "I'm just gonna do this," or, "We're just gonna figure it out"? Or did you look for someone who agreed with you and had your values and did the research?

Emma Grede 1:06:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:06:44 Or was it kind of like we're just gonna build it ourself? Like, how m- give, give us a bit of that because I think a lot of people sit in meetings-

Emma Grede 1:06:49 You know [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:50 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:06:50 You know, it's so interesting. I'm at that point in my career now where I don't sit in a lot of meetings.

Jay Shetty 1:06:55 Yeah, of course.

Emma Grede 1:06:55 Now they pitch me. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:56 Yeah, yeah. Go on.

Emma Grede 1:06:57 Which is lovely.

Jay Shetty 1:06:58 Congrats. I love that.

Emma Grede 1:06:58 The shoe's on the other foot. I'm like, "Come over here, and I'll let you know if you can come in." Um, uh, but-

Jay Shetty 1:07:03 [laughs] Good for you. I love that. I love that

Emma Grede 1:07:04 ... in, but in the early days, you know-

Jay Shetty 1:07:06 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:07:06 ... I, I think that I sat in a lot of situations feeling like, um... Uh, you know, the great thing is I never doubted myself or any of those ideas. I just thought I hadn't found the right people yet.

Jay Shetty 1:07:20 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:07:20 It's a little bit like you c- you know, I'm happy to kiss a lot of frogs, and I always have been. Because again, I don't think it should be so easy. When you're doing something that is new and without so much definition and unproven, like it's supposed to be hard. And again, it's like anything. I never let it get to me. I just was like, "Poor, poor chicken. He doesn't get it yet."

Jay Shetty 1:07:40 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:07:41 "And he will do, and he'll kick himself," you know? [laughs] ... fine.

Jay Shetty 1:07:44 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:07:44 You know, it's just, it's part of it, and I don't mean that in a smug way.

Jay Shetty 1:07:47 No, no, no.

Emma Grede 1:07:47 But I never, I never doubted what I was doing. I was very, very clear, especially when we started Good American.

Jay Shetty 1:07:54 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:07:54 I was like, "This thing, people don't understand, and we'll just get them to understand it."

Jay Shetty 1:08:01 Yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, and I think that's such a great mindset to have, and to not have the, the smugness or bitterness because-

Emma Grede 1:08:07 Exactly

Jay Shetty 1:08:07 ... that, that person just wasn't in the right space.

Emma Grede 1:08:09 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 1:08:09 They didn't get it.

Emma Grede 1:08:10 You don't know what you don't know.

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 It's cool.

Emma Grede 1:08:11 Right?

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 Totally. It's totally cool. I feel like that all the time. I'm like, I'm trying to find the people who wanna be part of this story.

Emma Grede 1:08:16 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:08:16 And if they don't wanna be a part of this story, that's totally cool.

Emma Grede 1:08:19 Of course.

Jay Shetty 1:08:19 But I'm-

Emma Grede 1:08:20 Because they won't be great partners to you down the line, right?

Jay Shetty 1:08:22 Absolutely.

Emma Grede 1:08:22 It's like you either get it and you wanna be part of it, and you are happy to know that you don't know it all, right?

Jay Shetty 1:08:30 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:08:30 Because it's, it's about new space. It's like if we were all doing the same thing and trying to set up the same companies, we'd never find a SKIMS.

Jay Shetty 1:08:37 Exactly.

Emma Grede 1:08:37 You know?

Jay Shetty 1:08:37 Exactly, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:08:37 It's like you'd never land on it. You'd be like, "That's too complicated. That's not how we do things."

Jay Shetty 1:08:42 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:08:43 And, and you'd skip over the great stuff.

Jay Shetty 1:08:45 How have you managed to continue to stay hungry and also stay innovative when things are good? Like before, you were talking about, "I didn't like my job. I wanted to get out."

Emma Grede 1:08:53 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:08:53 You know, Milk was outdoors. I was... You know, like y- there's a, there's a pain that pushes you in a better direction. I'm not saying you don't have pain anymore. Of course, there's stresses, challenges.

Emma Grede 1:09:03 I don't have that much pain. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:09:04 Yeah. [laughs] You know what I mean.

Emma Grede 1:09:05 I have daily dr- I have daily dramas-

Jay Shetty 1:09:07 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:09:07 ... but the pain is gone. You know what it is? You are fueled every day by, a piece of it is competition, right?

Jay Shetty 1:09:17 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 1:09:17 It's like I, I look at everything.

Jay Shetty 1:09:21 I love that.

Emma Grede 1:09:21 There's no one who knows more about jeans and knickers than I do. I look at every competitor. I go out in the market. I see it. I know, like, the promotional cadence. I know everything everybody else is doing.

Jay Shetty 1:09:32 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:09:32 And I think that, that, that natural, um, inquisitiveness is part of what keeps me good. Um, but at the end of the day, it's like I just wanna win.

Jay Shetty 1:09:43 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:09:44 You know? It's like I don't feel satisfied. And also, it's like, how could you? It's just been a couple of years.

Jay Shetty 1:09:49 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:09:49 There's loads of people that've had successes for six and for three years. I don't think that's the end goal. The end goal is to build, like, you know, generational or generationally defining businesses.

Jay Shetty 1:10:01 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:10:01 And that doesn't happen quickly. And also, I'm not stupid enough to think like or to let a few years' success get to me. There's a lot of people that had a few years' success, [laughs] you know?

Jay Shetty 1:10:12 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:10:12 That's not the end game. And so I think about, now it's about, you know, really taking the foundations of what we've built, not sacrificing any of your principles-

Jay Shetty 1:10:23 Mm

Emma Grede 1:10:24 ... and still being able to grow and to thrive and to hire people. But that gets more and more difficult the bigger you get, right? It's one thing saying, "Oh, we're gonna do business this way," when there are 10 of you and you're doing a million dollars. It's very, very different all these years in because there's n- there's no model. There's nothing that you can go out and emulate. We are making it up as we're going along.

Jay Shetty 1:10:46 Yeah. How do, how do you define winning now? Like is that how you define winning, or?

Emma Grede 1:10:49 You know, I define winning now by doing things that excite me. Like, you know, it's like we just launched this insane push-up bra at SKIMS, and everyone's talking about it. It's all over the place. And you know, like, that's exciting to me because, like, some, one of my girls in England will call me and be like, "Oh my God, I need to get that bra."

Jay Shetty 1:11:07 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:11:07 You know, it's like I love that. And I still get a thrill from, you know, it's like I love what I do. Like, I genuinely really love it, and I just wanna keep getting better at it. And for me, it comes in so many different ways. It's like I love giving people opportunities. I love the hiring part of it and getting to work with all different people, and I think that those things for me feel really successful. But if you to ask me just to, like, boil it down, it would be, like, to continue the growth and what we're doing without sacrificing the principles that we set the companies up with.

Jay Shetty 1:11:40 Mm. Right, right, right. Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:11:41 I don't wanna dial it down because we're, you know, reaching some kind of, like, critical mass.

Jay Shetty 1:11:47 Yeah, yeah. How, how do you... You know, we were talking about that. You have daily dramas, you said, not pains. And-

Emma Grede 1:11:53 Well, no- nobody talks to me when things are going well. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:11:56 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:11:56 My life is just a series of problems.

Jay Shetty 1:11:58 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:11:58 You know? From the minute I wake up to, you know, the minute I go to bed, like, that's just a fact. The stress level is unbelievable, and I do think that's important because you wouldn't know that looking at me or maybe just speaking to me. But you know, my, my job is not all, you know, trying different fabrics out and hanging around with models. That, that's just not what I do-

Jay Shetty 1:12:21 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:12:22 ... sadly.

Jay Shetty 1:12:22 How... Yeah, what, what

Jay Shetty 1:12:24 do you find to be the most stressful thing about building a business, and what do you do in order to deal with it?

Emma Grede 1:12:31 I think the most stressful thing is probably the expectations, right? That, that comes from the outside. I honestly believe you're only as good as your last launch. I never, ever drink the Kool-Aid, ever.

Jay Shetty 1:12:41 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Smart, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:12:42 Um, and I think that, you know, I happen to work in extremely high-profile businesses, where everything that we do is scrutinized, and with that comes a level of stress. It comes back to that thing of being very ritualistic. I, you know, am militant about the things that work for me. You know, I suffer with migraines. I get super, um, you know, I, I carry stress, like, in my body. And so it's like I get up very early. I wake up. I work out. I meditate. I make sure I have to be up before my children are up 'cause I need, like, quiet time. I need time to, like, focus. I'm, like, religiously grateful. Like, I have trained myself to focus on the great stuff in my life because I feel like there's [laughs] so much-

Jay Shetty 1:13:29 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:13:29 ... noise, you know, whether I like it or not. And so I could be overwhelmed every day in the things that are going on around me, and at the end of it, I'm, like, looking up, going, "Wow, the ceiling in my bedroom. Like, how could you even have a c- I could never imagine that I'd have-" Such a beautiful ceiling

Jay Shetty 1:13:46 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:13:46 ... ever. You know, it's like I am someone who truly stops to smell the roses.

Jay Shetty 1:13:49 Yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:13:50 Like, quite literally. I can find good happiness, joy in, in anything, and I really make it a point and a priority to do that every day.

Jay Shetty 1:13:59 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:13:59 And even as I have my tea, you know, it's like I have special tea from Japan, and I have a special pot that I put it in, and I just like taste it, and every day it's like I'm tasting it for the first time. But if I didn't do those things, I would lose my mind.

Jay Shetty 1:14:13 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:14:13 You know, I would lose my mind. And so I think I've just trained myself to, like, enjoy the, the kind of the rituals and the small things and be hyper-grateful, because there is no difference between me and all of those kids that I went to school with in East London, and I should be so lucky.

Jay Shetty 1:14:31 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:14:31 It's like we're here in the sunshine overlooking the whole of LA. I'm chatting to you. I'm gonna go into my office where I'm the boss and people are gonna film me chatting about stuff. Like, I don't have anything to complain about.

Jay Shetty 1:14:42 Yeah. But, but I bet, and from what I've learned today, you were like that even when the milk was outside.

Emma Grede 1:14:50 100% I was.

Jay Shetty 1:14:51 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:14:51 I was like, "At least I have a balcony." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:14:54 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's-

Emma Grede 1:14:55 I don't have a fridge, but I have a balcony

Jay Shetty 1:14:57 ... yeah, because, because if it wasn't there then, it wouldn't be there now.

Emma Grede 1:15:00 100%.

Jay Shetty 1:15:01 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:15:01 100%.

Jay Shetty 1:15:02 If you went on a walk

Jay Shetty 1:15:03 with little Emma as a memory, you, like, held hands and you went on a little walk with her, uh, what do you think she'd say to you?

Emma Grede 1:15:09 I think she'd say, "Well done, love." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:15:11 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:15:12 "You did it. [laughs] Keep going. Keep going."

Jay Shetty 1:15:17 And what would-

Emma Grede 1:15:17 Yeah, I think so

Jay Shetty 1:15:18 ... what would you say back?

Emma Grede 1:15:20 I'd say, "I am." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:15:21 [laughs] Go, "I'm trying. I'm doing it."

Emma Grede 1:15:23 What do you think I'm doing?

Jay Shetty 1:15:23 "I'm doing it."

Emma Grede 1:15:23 I'm literally walking forward now. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:15:25 Stop putting pressure on me. [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:15:27 I always sit here and I think, "Oh my goodness, like, I'm so proud of myself," but honestly-

Jay Shetty 1:15:31 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:15:31 ... Jay, when I think about what that means for me-

Jay Shetty 1:15:34 Mm

Emma Grede 1:15:34 ... now and the level of responsibility-

Jay Shetty 1:15:36 Mm

Emma Grede 1:15:36 ... that I feel-

Jay Shetty 1:15:37 Mm

Emma Grede 1:15:37 ... that is the thing that really fuels me today. Because when I do something, I feel a weight and an expectation of a group of people that have been historically left out and marginalized from a lot of these conversations and a lot of these opportunities. And there is this huge sense of responsibility that I have for women, especially sort of young Black women and minority women and kids that just grew up poor anywhere. Like, I think about all that stuff every single day, and I think that real success for me will be when I am, you know, able to really pool what I've got and what it is that I kind of like strive for and continue to achieve and, and have that affect a lot more people. And I do that in ways, you know, like through my chairmanship of the Fiveteen percent Pledge, that's been like a huge undertaking, an amazing amount of work that I have been able to do. But for me, it's like that is only kind of scratching the surface, and I think more and more of my work will be in how can I help so many more people that are like me, you know, get out of their circumstances and be able to contribute more? Because it just is mesmerizing to me that I've been able to go so far, and it ain't because I'm something special.

Jay Shetty 1:17:04 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 1:17:04 It's because there were a series of circumstances and then enough kind of grit and determination that I was able to do it. And so it's like how do you put other people into the same circumstances so that if they have the will, that they can do it, too?

Jay Shetty 1:17:17 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:17:18 And so that's where I'm fixated right now.

Jay Shetty 1:17:20 What's been one of your favorite success stories from that, or like a, a memory-

Emma Grede 1:17:23 Well, uh-

Jay Shetty 1:17:23 ... or story from that work?

Emma Grede 1:17:24 Well, you know, it's so funny 'cause it happens again in the small, in the smallest ways-

Jay Shetty 1:17:28 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:17:28 ... right? It's like I'll have a chat. I get hundreds of people reach out to me to say, "Listen, I'm starting a business. I... you know, I'm selling $10,000 a month in this clothing brand." And it's like I'll jump on the phone and I'll give someone some advice. Like, you know, I had a girl a couple of years ago, she was like, "I think I'm gonna get into Selfridges, and I wanna know how to do that. How do I structure the contract?" Anyway, fast-forward-

Jay Shetty 1:17:50 Lovely

Emma Grede 1:17:50 ... two years later, I do my first ever, like, Ask Me Anything, 'cause my team pressured me into it.

Jay Shetty 1:17:54 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:17:54 Um, I'm like, "Social is just not my bag."

Jay Shetty 1:17:56 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:17:56 But anyway, so I do the first Ask Me Anything, and all the girls are asking me the same questions, right? How do you start a business? How do you strive, da da da. And this girl comes up, and then she says, "I just wanna let you know that I now do however many tens of thousands a week at Selfridges, and it was all because-

Jay Shetty 1:18:12 Oh, wow

Emma Grede 1:18:12 ... you helped me walk through that contract, and I took your advice, and I... you know, I stuck to the distribution plan and did it." And I was like, "Oh my God!"

Jay Shetty 1:18:20 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:18:20 You know, and so it's always those tiny things for me.

Jay Shetty 1:18:23 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:18:23 Um, and again, that's just about giving someone your time. So I'm really trying to think thoughtfully about how I can do more of that in a, a more systematic and a, and a bigger way, because sadly I can't answer every phone call or every DM that comes through.

Jay Shetty 1:18:37 Why not? Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:18:38 Yeah. [laughs] What are you talking about?

Jay Shetty 1:18:39 No, that's so beautiful, and I, I think that, that component is such a big part of happiness and success. Like-

Emma Grede 1:18:44 Course it is

Jay Shetty 1:18:44 ... because you're so right. Like, no one who's got to the top is any more special. Just going back to what your mom said at the beginning.

Emma Grede 1:18:52 No, no.

Jay Shetty 1:18:52 It's like-

Emma Grede 1:18:52 You ain't better than anyone else

Jay Shetty 1:18:53 ... you know, and, and as soon as you start thinking it or people also start thinking it, that, "Oh yeah, that person's there because they're faster, smarter, better," or when we do the opposite, when we go, "They don't deserve to be there. I should be-"

Emma Grede 1:19:03 Exactly. No

Jay Shetty 1:19:04 ... both of those just take it away, and, uh-

Emma Grede 1:19:07 100%

Jay Shetty 1:19:08 ... I, I look at your journey, and I'm, I'm so... I, I l- I, like, really admire the way you live and think.

Emma Grede 1:19:15 Oh, thanks.

Jay Shetty 1:19:15 Like, it's really, it's r- it's such a wonderful mindset, and it's such a strong... You've been able to craft something that's so resilient and, and you can-

Emma Grede 1:19:25 Oh, that's a good word

Jay Shetty 1:19:26 ... and yeah, it's so res- what you've been able to build, and, and I'm talking about almost like if we were able to physically look at your mindset.

Emma Grede 1:19:32 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:33 It's so resilient, because I can hear, as we've approached it from so many different points of view, it's like you have such a clear philosophy on how you live, who you are, what matters, what doesn't matter.

Emma Grede 1:19:43 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:19:44 And I look at that clarity when, when I see you as like that's the reason you are who you are and where you are. It's because you're just so clear, and, and I feel like no matter was, what would happen either way, it's like that is what you're betting on, and that's what you've been building and focused on.

Emma Grede 1:20:00 I think so.

Jay Shetty 1:20:01 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:20:02 I think so.

Jay Shetty 1:20:03 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:20:03 Someone write that down. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:20:05 [laughs] I really mean it. I really mean it.

Emma Grede 1:20:08 It is so kind. It's so kind.

Jay Shetty 1:20:10 No.

Emma Grede 1:20:10 Oh, I love that you say that. It makes me, it makes me so happy because you never think about yourself in such clear terms like that, right? It never... You are who you are in so many ways, you know, and I see that with my own kids. They're like four people that I think, "Well, you got exactly the same upbringing. We all live in the same house. I don't do one thing different," and yet they are just these, like, four tiny individuals. And at six months it's like you know exactly what kinda kid you've got. Like, you know if this kid is, like, super anxious, if this kid's super obnoxious.

Jay Shetty 1:20:39 [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:20:39 Like, you know exactly who they are. I'm sure there's lots of things and changes coming in their lives, but so much of it is just in you, right?

Jay Shetty 1:20:47 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:20:47 And, you know, and then you layer circumstances onto that, and you know what you're capable of, what you can and can't affect, and what you should be doing. And then so I always look at it as like I was living like a very nice, very privileged life in England, and I moved here specifically for work, and it's been wonderful for work, but in so many other facets of my life, being in LA has been an eye-opener.

Jay Shetty 1:21:11 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:21:11 And it's actually fueled me in a way that I really never expected. And I always think, you know, if you elevate your health, you elevate your life. It's like if you elevate your thinking, you elevate, you know, what your capabilities are. And so for me it's just been wonderful and an amazing moment to be here because I've been able to elevate so many things that I do, and I think that that should only end up in, like, a, a bunch of other people being able to benefit from that.

Jay Shetty 1:21:37 Absolutely. Well said. Write that down.

Emma Grede 1:21:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:21:40 Print it out. That was... Yeah, no, the, absolutely. Like, I think it's, it's incredible how, you know, I think a lot of people label LA as Hollywood and-

Emma Grede 1:21:50 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:21:50 ... think of it as just that.

Emma Grede 1:21:51 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:21:52 But it's like I feel the same way as you. Like, moving here, like, my eyes have opened up to so many more things that-

Emma Grede 1:21:56 Totally

Jay Shetty 1:21:57 ... that are really valuable, important, insightful. I've met people who are doing incredible things. You know, what you just said now of, like, opening the door and trying to break down. We had, you know, just a few months ago we had Lewis Hamilton here talking about-

Emma Grede 1:22:09 Yes

Jay Shetty 1:22:10 ... 44 and talking about how he's trying to help-

Emma Grede 1:22:11 Such a great guy

Jay Shetty 1:22:12 ... you know, trying to help people of color get into the world of, uh, Formula 1-

Emma Grede 1:22:16 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:22:16 ... which, which is a normal which him and his father were able to do. Like, you, you start seeing that happen across fashion, sports, business, and, and that's so incredible because you start thinking about all those little Emmas and little Lewises and, and everyone else out there-

Emma Grede 1:22:30 Totally

Jay Shetty 1:22:31 ... who, who's just trying to figure out whether they have a shot.

Emma Grede 1:22:34 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:22:34 And-

Emma Grede 1:22:35 100%

Jay Shetty 1:22:35 ... and they do. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:22:37 Emma, we, we end every episode with a final five, which we sit down and do as a fast five, which means every answer has to be one word to one sentence maximum.

Emma Grede 1:22:47 One word to one sentence. All right.

Jay Shetty 1:22:48 But I always-

Emma Grede 1:22:48 I'll rein myself in. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:22:50 ... I always ruin it because I get intrigued.

Emma Grede 1:22:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:22:52 So all right. Okay. So Emma Grede, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Emma Grede 1:23:01 I wish that I could make this sound as powerful as it was for me.

Jay Shetty 1:23:04 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:23:04 That's the first thing to say, but it's a good one. It was to make a decision and move on.

Jay Shetty 1:23:09 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:23:10 Because you can be so stifled by your decisions, and when you are just stuck, it just does so many other things to you. And so I think it's served me really well in so many ways. I u- I used to think about it just for business, and now I don't. I think it's make a decision and move on.

Jay Shetty 1:23:26 Yeah. Yeah, I always say to people, "Stop trying to make the right decision. Just make a decision and then make it right."

Emma Grede 1:23:31 Totally.

Jay Shetty 1:23:32 Like, you know, you-

Emma Grede 1:23:32 100, 100%

Jay Shetty 1:23:33 ... you do it afterwards. You can't-

Emma Grede 1:23:34 You can go back.

Jay Shetty 1:23:34 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:23:34 You can go back afterwards.

Jay Shetty 1:23:35 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:23:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:23:35 I love that. That's great. We've never had that on the show.

Emma Grede 1:23:37 Don't sit still.

Jay Shetty 1:23:37 Love that. Uh, question number two: what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Emma Grede 1:23:42 Stay in your lane. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:23:43 [laughs] What was the lane?

Emma Grede 1:23:45 Oh, I don't know.

Jay Shetty 1:23:46 No, just, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:23:47 But someone was trying to stifle me, and lucky enough I listened to my little Emma inside-

Jay Shetty 1:23:52 Yeah. [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:23:53 ... and gave her a big old beep. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:23:56 Yeah. [laughs] I love it.

Emma Grede 1:23:57 Never stay in your lane.

Jay Shetty 1:23:59 I love it.

Emma Grede 1:23:59 But it's interesting 'cause I think all the growth in my life has come when I have stepped outside of whatever lane-

Jay Shetty 1:24:04 Yeah

Emma Grede 1:24:04 ... I was in at that time.

Jay Shetty 1:24:05 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:05 And so i- it's useless advice, actually.

Jay Shetty 1:24:08 Absolutely. Uh, question number three: how would someone who doesn't know you that well describe you in three words? [laughs]

Emma Grede 1:24:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:19 I wish, if you're listening to this, you just missed out on the best facial expression.

Emma Grede 1:24:22 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:24:22 You need to go to YouTube right now.

Emma Grede 1:24:24 It's always such a worry. I mean, goodness me, the things I've been called. How would someone describe me? I think they would describe me as, like, kind.

Jay Shetty 1:24:34 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:24:34 I'm a kind person. Ambitious, and, like, not to be messed around with.

Jay Shetty 1:24:42 Got it. I like it. I like the third one, [laughs] not to be messed around with.

Emma Grede 1:24:45 I couldn't think of, like, the one word, right?

Jay Shetty 1:24:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:47 It's like-

Jay Shetty 1:24:48 No, no, that's good. Yeah

Emma Grede 1:24:48 ... I think that's what people think about me.

Jay Shetty 1:24:49 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:49 They're like, "She's tough."

Jay Shetty 1:24:51 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:51 Tough.

Jay Shetty 1:24:52 Tough, yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:52 Kind but tough.

Jay Shetty 1:24:53 Yeah.

Emma Grede 1:24:53 There you go.

Jay Shetty 1:24:53 And ambitious.

Emma Grede 1:24:54 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:24:54 Question number four: how would someone who knows you very deeply describe you in three words?

Emma Grede 1:25:00 Sensitive, very thoughtful, and, um, tough. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:25:06 [laughs] I love it. That's brilliant.

Emma Grede 1:25:10 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:25:11 We need to get your husband on the podcast.

Emma Grede 1:25:13 Yeah, exactly.

Jay Shetty 1:25:13 Like, like, yeah, to verify, just-

Emma Grede 1:25:15 Just to verify for sure.

Jay Shetty 1:25:16 I love it.

Emma Grede 1:25:16 He'd go, "Tough, tough, and tough." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:25:17 I love it. And Emma, your final question, uh, fifth and final question: if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Emma Grede 1:25:26 You know, very specifically for the time we're in right now, it would be to lead with kindness.

Jay Shetty 1:25:32 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:25:33 Nothing else.

Jay Shetty 1:25:34 Yeah. We need it.

Emma Grede 1:25:35 Just do that.

Jay Shetty 1:25:35 In, in every little interaction.

Emma Grede 1:25:38 In everything. It's so powerful, and it's what I teach my kids, you know? It's like, just be kind.

Jay Shetty 1:25:44 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:25:45 Like, it doesn't take much, and it goes so unbelievably far.

Jay Shetty 1:25:50 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:25:51 You know? And when I say that about myself being kind, it's like that is something that I think about every single day.

Jay Shetty 1:25:59 Mm.

Emma Grede 1:25:59 Like, how am I treating people? What do people get from me? And I'm talking about everyone.

Jay Shetty 1:26:07 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 1:26:07 You know? Like, everyone.

Jay Shetty 1:26:09 Mm-hmm.

Emma Grede 1:26:10 It's just a fact. Just be kind.

Jay Shetty 1:26:12 Emma Grede, thank you for coming on, on Pavés.

Emma Grede 1:26:15 Thank you for having me.

Jay Shetty 1:26:15 This was incredible. Everyone who's been listening and watching, wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're at the gym, whether you're driving to or from work, whether you're listening with your friends, I want you to know that, uh, please go and tag me and Emma in the moment that stood out to you. Maybe there's a quote. Maybe there's... There was so much wisdom sprinkled across this entire episode. I hope that you find the ones that resonate with you. I hope that this helps you make a shift in your career. I hope this helps you make a shift in your mindset about how you're trying to balance what's going on in your world. I hope this helps you think differently about the choices and decisions you're about to make. Uh, please, please, please tag me and Emma across social media to let us know what stood out to you. Please show her a ton of love. Emma, thank you for doing this. Thank you for opening up. Thank you for being so real and wonderful to spend this much time with.

Emma Grede 1:27:00 Oh, it's been a pleasure. I've loved every second. I'm so grateful to you.

Jay Shetty 1:27:04 I'm glad. Me too.

Emma Grede 1:27:05 Thank you, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:27:05 Thank you, Emma.

Emma Grede 1:27:06 So good to see you.

Jay Shetty 1:27:06 Thank you. If you loved this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

Speaker 1:27:16 You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, "That is so unfair 'cause that's not who I am."

Jay Shetty 1:27:22 Mm.

Speaker 1:27:22 And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, "But I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?"