This KEEPS 90% Of People Single! (BIGGEST DATING MISTAKES) | Matthew Hussey & Jay Shetty

Matthew Hussey 0:00 If you are getting crazy nervous on a date, you're already va- i, i- that's already a reflection of the fact that you've valued the wrong things. One of the biggest problems is people falling for people really quickly.

Jay Shetty 0:15 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 0:16 Falling in love too fast, where it's because they went on a f- couple of great dates with a guy, and they can look at the date and go, "He was amazing, and you, you should have seen what he did and how he was on the date," and all of that. And the thing I have to always break down is that may not have been about you.

Jay Shetty 0:36 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 0:37 It is about something he wanted you to feel-

Jay Shetty 0:41 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 0:41 ... by the end of the date.

Jay Shetty 0:43 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 0:44 And not that, you know, you ... I, I, I'm a ... I kinda loathe this culture we have right now where everyone's a narcissist. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 0:52 Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 0:52 Like, we ca- we're so quick to, like, label.

Jay Shetty 0:54 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 0:55 "He's a narcissist."

Jay Shetty 0:55 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 0:55 "She's a narcissist." It ... Like, I'm like, not every- Like, we all have a narcissistic streak.

Jay Shetty 1:01 Absolutely.

Matthew Hussey 1:01 And we all exhibit narcissistic behaviors at time. That doesn't mean we're a diagnosable narcissist.

Jay Shetty 1:07 Completely.

Matthew Hussey 1:08 But a narcissistic streak we all have early in dating, and to differing degrees, is the desire to impress-

Jay Shetty 1:18 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:18 ... rather than connect.

Jay Shetty 1:20 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:20 And so we go on a date with someone, and, you know, at the height of it, if someone's really on the extreme end, they will give the greatest date of someone's life.

Jay Shetty 1:28 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:29 And that person goes away, and they're like, "This guy is amazing," or, "This pers-" And they, they may have put on an amazing date, but you, you know nothing yet.

Jay Shetty 1:40 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:40 And what's cool about your wife sa- you know, go- uh, going through that process with you is, you know, I can imagine for her it's almost like, "Well, I wanna see how you are in week four."

Jay Shetty 1:51 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:52 Or, "I wanna see how you are in month three."

Jay Shetty 1:54 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:55 Or ... And until you've been there, you really don't know how great of a partner somebody is gonna be.

Jay Shetty 2:01 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 2:01 And that, that's what I mean by, you know, when you asked me about what I've really learned about love and, and I talked about valuing the wrong things.

Jay Shetty 2:08 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 2:08 That's one of the big ways that it shows up.

Jay Shetty 2:11 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 2:11 If you are getting crazy nervous on a date-

Jay Shetty 2:15 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 2:15 ... you're already va- i, i- that's already a reflection of the fact that you've valued the wrong things because you're valuing this person's looks or their status or what you perceive them to be, but you can't ... You're not valuing them in a relationship-

Jay Shetty 2:32 Mm

Matthew Hussey 2:32 ... or in relation to you, which is defined by how much they give, how they connect with you, how they relate to you, how they see you.

Jay Shetty 2:40 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 2:41 All of that stuff is i- i- completely ... i- is you're a zero.

Jay Shetty 2:45 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 2:46 So how can you be nervous if you're valuing the right things? You can only be nervous if you're valuing the wrong things.

Jay Shetty 2:52 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 2:53 If ... That, to me, is the key to eliminating early l- nerves in early dating, is that there is ... I, I, I almost feel a little fatalistic about it, which is funny coming from someone who gives advice in this area for a living because, you know, I, I do believe that we can influence situations with what we do. But we do have to have a bit of a dose of fatalism, that the thing that didn't pan out wasn't the thing.

Jay Shetty 3:19 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 3:20 The person who's still great in week eight is showing you the right things, but if they suddenly ghost you in week nine, then it doesn't mean they would've been great in week 16.

Jay Shetty 3:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 3:33 They're like, "Oh, but they were the one, and I just, I don't know wh- I need closure." You have closure.

Jay Shetty 3:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 3:39 That action was closure. What they showed you is they had eight good weeks in them.

Jay Shetty 3:43 Yeah. [laughs] That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. It's, it's ... And it's the same as you'd say in sport. Like, if you, if you s- I'm just, I was just thinking about sport-

Matthew Hussey 3:53 Mm

Jay Shetty 3:53 ... while you were saying that. It's the idea of, like, a player may have one good season in him or her.

Matthew Hussey 3:58 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 3:58 And then that player may have had 10 good seasons in him or her. And sometimes we have these players where we're like, "Oh, she's gonna be the next," or, "He's gonna be the next." And then all of a sudden they don't give you that season. And in sports we get closure by just going, "All right. They had potential, but they didn't make it." But you're right. In love, in life, it's a lot hard to have that mentality of, like, "They gave me eight good weeks, but they didn't make it."

Matthew Hussey 4:20 Well, and you, and you sit there and you obsess over someone who just left you, going ... You obsess over what they could have been.

Jay Shetty 4:28 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 4:29 Right?

Jay Shetty 4:29 That's what it is.

Matthew Hussey 4:30 They could have th- You know, this was so promising. They were everything that I was looking for. This could have been. And any time you, you, someone breaks up with us, w- you know, the heartbreak is the loss of the life we thought we were gonna have-

Jay Shetty 4:45 Mm

Matthew Hussey 4:45 ... with someone. This is, this is what it could have been. This is what it should have been.

Jay Shetty 4:51 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 4:52 And my answer to that is it would have been-

Jay Shetty 4:55 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 4:56 ... if it should have been and could have been.

Jay Shetty 4:58 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 4:58 Then it would have been. You're literally, uh, uh ... You're grieving over something that was not ... It, by definition, it wasn't meant to happen 'cause it didn't happen.

Jay Shetty 5:12 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 5:13 Like-

Jay Shetty 5:13 Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 5:14 ... it didn't happen, so this idea that it, it was supposed to or it should have is, is myth-

Jay Shetty 5:21 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 5:21 ... it's a fantasy.

Jay Shetty 5:22 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 5:22 It's science fiction.

Jay Shetty 5:23 Yeah. But I feel like in relationships we have this fantasy mind that's already written the script-

Matthew Hussey 5:30 Yeah

Jay Shetty 5:30 ... and the book and the trilogy before the second date is over. And so it's almost like relationship seems to be, like, the one area of our life where we write decades into the future, and we can't help ourselves because we almost think that that ... And, and it's almost like you're living ... What you're saying is you're living off the fantasy-

Matthew Hussey 5:50 Yeah

Jay Shetty 5:50 ... not even off the reality that's right in front of you. And so even when you're on a date with them, you're not even there because you're in your fantasy land-

Matthew Hussey 5:57 And-

Jay Shetty 5:57 ... of what you think it is.

Matthew Hussey 5:59 And that's where in, in so many ways, w- everything that you are ... You know, w- your expertise in mindfulness and everything you've learned there is so- Important in dating, because in dating you have to be on the date you're on.

Jay Shetty 6:18 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 6:19 Mindful dating is be on the date you're on. Don't be on date two, but really you're not, you're on date 32.

Jay Shetty 6:26 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 6:27 Don't ... Your mind has to be on date two with your body.

Jay Shetty 6:30 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 6:31 And when people don't do that, that's where they start n- they start constructing a fantasy of where this relationship is going, a fantasy of who this person is. They know 5% of someone, and they've built the other 95% out of, out of-

Jay Shetty 6:48 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 6:48 ... uh, uh, extrapolation.

Jay Shetty 6:49 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 6:50 "Oh, he was really sweet in that moment. You know, I bet he's good with kids. I bet he's this-

Jay Shetty 6:54 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 6:54 ... I bet he's that. I bet he's, you know-

Jay Shetty 6:56 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 6:56 ... I bet he's an amazing family man. I bet ..." You know, and, and, and we've all had the experience of meeting someone who is incredibly charming, fun to be around, you know. And m- you went away from ... Like, as men, we sometimes go out and we meet another man, and it's like we've been a date, on a date with that man.

Jay Shetty 7:13 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:13 And you come home, and you go, "He was so great."

Jay Shetty 7:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 7:15 You know? It was like, "I loved him to bits. He was a..." And he really charmed you. And then six months later, the, th- that person has really lost their shine.

Jay Shetty 7:23 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:24 'Cause they're flaky. You realize they don't actually show up when, when you need them to.

Jay Shetty 7:30 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:30 You realize that it's, they, they kind of ... You know, it's that, the, in The Talented Mr. Ripley, there's that great line-

Jay Shetty 7:36 Oh, that's a great movie. Yeah

Matthew Hussey 7:37 ... great movie.

Jay Shetty 7:38 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:38 There's a great line where Matt Damon is, like, you know, he's become the new chosen best friend-

Jay Shetty 7:43 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 7:43 ... of, of, um, Jude Law's character.

Jay Shetty 7:45 Jude Law, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:45 And his name, Jude Law's character's name's Dickie, and Matt, Matt Damon is, is feeling suddenly shut out. Like, out of nowhere he feels shut out, when five minutes ago he was like, "This guy's my best friend, and he loves me, and he's so..." And he says to Matt Damon's girlfriend at the time, he, he's expressing how he feels, that it, you know ... Or no, he's not even expressing. She sees the look on his face that he's sad that he no longer has this, like, friendship that feels real to him. And she says, "The thing about Dickie is when, when he puts his attention on you, it's like the sun is shining on you."

Jay Shetty 8:20 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 8:20 "And then the attention moves on, and it's very cold."

Jay Shetty 8:24 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 8:24 And, and that's the experience of a lot of those people. But when you're taking the 5% of the sun shining on you, and you use it to build the 95% that you cannot possibly know.

Jay Shetty 8:35 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 8:35 You can't know who this person is when your brother gets sick, and y- you need to travel to the hospital to be with that person, and you need support in that moment. You can't know how that person is when you're having an anxious moment, and you need someone to show love and compassion towards you, and this, uh, anxiety that you can't seem to control, and what you really need is a loving teammate to be there with you and not to judge you. You can't know-

Jay Shetty 8:59 Mm

Matthew Hussey 8:59 ... what this person is like in year three of a relationship when the, you know, you need to make a shift in your sex life because it feels like that part has become staid, but you need to work together to figure out ... You don't know what that person is like in those stages. So im- so thinking that you have all the answers because you've been on even 10 or 15 dates with this person and had a wonderful time is a, is a fallacy, a fantasy. There's a great, um ... The, the, the relationship itself is about every

Matthew Hussey 9:29 stage of it and the effort that's put in. And there's a, there's a story from Bukowski where he, he slept with a prostitute. Every romantic story begins with-

Jay Shetty 9:39 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 9:39 [laughs] Begins this way. He slept with a prostitute, and she, um, he woke up to her having stolen his poetry, and he was so upset, so mad.

Jay Shetty 9:50 That's terrible, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 9:51 And, um, he wrote about it. And he wrote a piece that was all about how you could take anything, take my money, take the other stuff in the, in the apartment, take it all, but please, not my, anything but my poetry. And the, the whole piece finishes with the line, "And then God said, crossing his legs, 'I see where I've created a great many poets, but not so very much poetry.'"

Jay Shetty 10:19 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 10:19 And the, the idea is that, you know, the person who has potential in a relationship is the poet.

Jay Shetty 10:28 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 10:29 The poet. Everyone's a poet.

Jay Shetty 10:31 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 10:32 Not many people writing poetry.

Jay Shetty 10:34 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 10:34 Writing-

Jay Shetty 10:34 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 10:35 ... is the more difficult part. There are a lot of people who are great on a date, very romantic, very charming. They're a poet on a date.

Jay Shetty 10:42 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 10:42 The poetry is the relationship.

Jay Shetty 10:44 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 10:44 And, and you shouldn't ... You know, Bukowski was upset because his poetry was taken-

Jay Shetty 10:50 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 10:50 ... the thing he'd worked on. And that's how it should be in a relationship, is don't, don't get upset because you lost a poet. Poets are, are a dime a dozen. Poetry is rare.

Jay Shetty 11:05 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 11:05 People who are willing to write the poetry of a relationship, people who are willing to stick it with you for a year, two years, five years, 10 years, that's really rare.

Jay Shetty 11:13 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 11:13 And, and we need to start valuing the poetry far more than we value the poet.

Jay Shetty 11:18 Yeah, I love that. What a, what a beautiful analogy. Let's, let's talk a bit about that poetry, because I feel like what's amazing is we convince ourself more of the fiction when you are lusting after that person's looks, fame, prestige, whatever, whatever they have that you're attracted to. It's almost like then, even if they do a million bad things, like you said about the guy playing the guitar or whatever it is, it's like, you're like, "Oh, but he's so," or, "She's so," whatever. But tell us a bit about what to look out for. So when people are out there, and I know ... What I love about what you do is that, and I love this conversation, by the way, so far, because it's, it's, it's philosophical, and it's real, but you're great at getting practical too.

Matthew Hussey 11:58 Mm.

Jay Shetty 11:58 And I see that in all the work you put out. What's some of the practical things that people can look out for? I know so many friends who are in early relationships or s- just started to date someone or finally met someone.

Matthew Hussey 12:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:10 What can they look for in those moments, or is it looking for anything? It may, maybe that's even the wrong place to start.

Matthew Hussey 12:16 I think it's ... So- We have a duty early on to bring our best to the table in as much as we can. We're all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna have anxious moments or jealous moments or moments where we let our insecurity get the better of us, moments where we let our anger get the better of us. Everyone's gonna have these moments, but we wanna try and put our best foot forward. But I always think that we learn a lot in the moments where you have your first fight-

Jay Shetty 12:51 Mm

Matthew Hussey 12:51 ... or you reveal something about yourself, and you see how they react to it. You know, do they react with compassion, or is there immediate judgment? And, and, and I don't mean a moment where you kind of try and perform.

Jay Shetty 13:11 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 13:12 I mean a moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen.

Jay Shetty 13:17 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 13:18 Does this person, do they see you? Do they acknowledge you? And do they show compassion and curiosity about why you are that way and-

Jay Shetty 13:29 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 13:29 ... what's happened in your life to get you there? Do they really, are they looking to figure you out? And who you are is a wonderful, wonderful sign 'cause a lot of people are just in a relationship, and they're sleepwalking.

Jay Shetty 13:40 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 13:40 They're just, they're, they're enjoying it. They're enjoying the fruits of the relationship, but you don't get the impression someone's really trying to get to know you.

Jay Shetty 13:47 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 13:48 You don't feel seen by that person.

Jay Shetty 13:50 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 13:50 The person who's actually asking questions of you, the person who's looking to understand the good and the bad in you-

Jay Shetty 13:57 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 13:58 ... and who elevates the good and soothes the bad-

Jay Shetty 14:02 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 14:03 ... that's something very beautiful-

Jay Shetty 14:06 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 14:06 ... to look out for. The person who can come back and say sorry as, of course, and I apply the same standard to, to both sides.

Jay Shetty 14:14 Y- yeah, of course.

Matthew Hussey 14:15 But the person who can, who can come back and say sorry, you know. Again, we, we all, when I'm, when w- with one of my staff in my company, when I say, you know, when I give them a difficult piece of feedback, I don't expect them to smile in that moment.

Jay Shetty 14:31 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 14:31 I don't expect them to, like, take, you know, in the ... I, I h- would hope that they don't react in a really negative or toxic way, but-

Jay Shetty 14:39 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 14:39 ... I don't expect them to have an easy time with that. But if that person can go away over the next few hours or days and then come back and say, "You know, I really thought about what you said, and I'm gonna work on that," that's something to look for.

Jay Shetty 14:51 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 14:51 'Cause you can really, like that person, if you're both that kinda person-

Jay Shetty 14:55 Mm

Matthew Hussey 14:56 ... you can work with that person.

Jay Shetty 14:58 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 14:59 That's someone you can genuinely have a relationship with because it's not a relationship that's based on perfection or never having an argument, but it is based on two people who are humble enough to genuinely own their mistakes or to own the areas where they wanna get better.

Jay Shetty 15:16 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 15:18 Um, I'm, I'm always looking at the ways people argue and whether they, whether they're trying to do damage in an argument-

Jay Shetty 15:26 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 15:26 ... or whether they're trying to rebuild in an argument.

Jay Shetty 15:30 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 15:30 And if you're with someone that every time you come out of an argument, you feel like they lacerated you, and there's, the, you're, you, you come out of an argument bleeding every time, you know, and you're like, "They, why did they have to say that incredibly nasty thing?" And it's one thing if they come back 10, an hour later and say, or even a day later, and say, "I truly regret having said that to you, and I will do better."

Jay Shetty 15:56 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 15:57 But if they won't even acknowledge that that was a really toxic way to have an argument, and that was a really nasty thing to say, then that's a problem 'cause this is a relationship that's not gonna soothe you.

Jay Shetty 16:09 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 16:09 It's gonna create more and more wounds. So that I would say is an important thing. And, and two people genuinely, genuinely at the core of it operating as a team.

Jay Shetty 16:21 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 16:22 What do you, what do you need? And can I tell you, you know, you're working really hard right now. Can I understand what your goal is in doing this and seek to understand that and where that's coming from for you and why that's important? But can I also voice to you that I'm not feeling very loved right now-

Jay Shetty 16:44 Mm

Matthew Hussey 16:44 ... and that I'm s- I, you know, maybe it is just my insecurity or maybe the, you know, but I, or maybe I don't have some, enough, as m- many things going on in my life right now as you do in yours, but I know one of the effects is it's creating some anxiety for me, and it's making me feel like you don't love me as much as I love you, you know? It, you want an environment where you can have that real conversation, and it, it then, to me, a relationship is no longer about right and wrong. It's about the conversation.

Jay Shetty 17:16 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 17:16 Can the conversation be had?

Jay Shetty 17:18 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 17:19 That to me is one of the greatest signs of a relationship you should hang onto-

Jay Shetty 17:25 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 17:25 ... is can the relationship be had?

Jay Shetty 17:27 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 17:28 And can it be had in a beautiful and, and productive and loving way?

Jay Shetty 17:32 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 17:33 Because that's all, you know, uh, um, David Brooks said marriage is a 50-year conversation.

Jay Shetty 17:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 17:39 Right? Is that conversation a, does it feel good?

Jay Shetty 17:43 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 17:44 Doesn't always feel comfortable, but does it feel like this is a conversation that is making me better?

Jay Shetty 17:49 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 17:50 Or is it a conversation that's always making me worse?

Jay Shetty 17:52 Yeah. I love that. And, and, and I think it's, it's such a vicious cycle though sometimes because I find that you get into an argument, like you said, which I think the first argument is such a great, uh, like, it's such a great marker to put down as-

Matthew Hussey 18:06 Yeah

Jay Shetty 18:06 ... let's, let's reflect on this.

Matthew Hussey 18:07 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:07 And I think that's such a great way of putting it that you said. And if you look at that, often what happens is the person reacts badly. It's natural. You react badly too, and then you're waiting for that person to make up, and that person's waiting for you to make up. And then maybe you go ahead and put the first hand in.

Matthew Hussey 18:23 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 18:24 But then now they deal with the second bad, and now you're waiting again. And I feel like we get lost in this, like, waiting game, and I kind of got to a point where I was just like, "I want to a- Make sure that I am leading this conversation. So a conversation that me and my wife always have is, I'll always check in with her and be like, "Is this relationship going in the direction you want it to go in?" Like, "Is this going in the direction?"

Matthew Hussey 18:45 Mm.

Jay Shetty 18:45 "Is this relationship what you want it to be? And if it's not, what do you want it to be, and what are you willing to do to get there?" Because, and I'll always be like, "Well, this is not how I want the relationship to be-

Matthew Hussey 18:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 18:56 ... and this is what I want it to be." And I find, like, that conversation for me is really healthy, and I'm always happy. One thing that I've got to right now, and I think my wife has this in different parts of our relationship, I'm always happy to take the responsibility for the quality of the relationship, because I'm in it, in the same way as I am with my company-

Matthew Hussey 19:12 Right

Jay Shetty 19:12 ... in the same way as I am for this podcast-

Matthew Hussey 19:14 Right

Jay Shetty 19:14 ... in the same way as I am for anything. It's like, it's easy to, it's easy to sit there and go, "Well, what are you bringing to the table?" And, and I realized at one point where I was like, if I care about stuff, I've got to be okay with h- uh, grabbing onto the reins. And the, the funny thing is, I started to realize that, that actually there are plenty of times when my wife does that. She just does it in different areas-

Matthew Hussey 19:35 Mm

Jay Shetty 19:35 ... that I don't notice. And so it can feel like I'm carrying the burden, but actually that's not true. I'm, I'm taking responsibility where I thrive, and actually she's taking responsibi- responsibility where she thrives, and I don't even notice that. And that's when I started to feel healthier, rather than like, I was like, "Well, where you show up?" Like, "What are you doing?" And, uh, I remember when I was a monk, the, the teachers would always tell us that, you know, you may sit in a class with a non-charismatic teacher.

Matthew Hussey 20:06 Mm.

Jay Shetty 20:06 So they were like, "Some of the monks are not gonna be the most charismatic, the most attentive, the most, like-

Matthew Hussey 20:12 Right

Jay Shetty 20:12 ... dynamic teachers of the, the, the text and the spiritual scriptures." And they were like, "But if you're a student that's 10 out of 10, even if the speaker's a 1 out of 10 in presentation, you're gonna get lots. But if you're a 1 out of 10 and the speaker's 10 out of 10-

Matthew Hussey 20:28 Yeah

Jay Shetty 20:28 ... then they're lifting you up. But by the way, if you're at a 1 out of 10 and they're at a 1 out of 10, that's all you're gonna get."

Matthew Hussey 20:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:33 And it's kind of like what your friend said about the bag of milk.

Matthew Hussey 20:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:37 You know, the i- the i- the idea of, like, taking your own responsibility for if you want to be in a relationship.

Matthew Hussey 20:43 That's-

Jay Shetty 20:43 Oh, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 20:44 That-

Jay Shetty 20:44 I'd love to. Yeah

Matthew Hussey 20:45 ... that speaks again, y- you're so right, Jay, and it's beau- uh, truly beautiful that you have that in your relationship, and it's, and it's also brave. 'Cause talking, those conversations are not easy. They, and people s- can say things in those relationship, in those conversations that can scare us. They could say, "Well, I'm not happy 'cause I want it to go in this direction." It's like-

Jay Shetty 21:04 Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah

Matthew Hussey 21:05 ... oof. Like, you know, or, "I didn't realize you were unhappy in that way," or, "I didn't realize you felt like that." Though that takes a lot of bravery to have conversations like that, and I commend you for that. And I, and I think that's one of the things a lot of people aren't willing to do, is step bravely into an area where they could be criticized.

Jay Shetty 21:23 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 21:23 Um, but I, I think it is one of the most important aspects of a relationship, is being able to do exactly that. So no, I think it's, I think it's a, a stunning thing.

Jay Shetty 21:37 Well, it's uncomfortable, like you're saying. It's not, and n- and I'm not sharing it as, like, we've perfected it and we've got it right. I'm just saying that that's what we've had to do in order to, like, you know, we're only at year five, year eight in our relationship, year five in marriage, but it's like, that's what we've just, I've had to find these, what you're saying, like, the 50-year conversation-

Matthew Hussey 21:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 21:56 ... and, and the idea you're saying of having these, like, I'm just, I've noticed that without these things, you could go years without changing anything.

Matthew Hussey 22:04 But speaking of what you said with the m- the idea of the monks, that to me goes back to the m- you know, what I was saying about timing being important.

Jay Shetty 22:14 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 22:14 I do believe when you go into a relationship with genuine purpose-

Jay Shetty 22:19 Mm

Matthew Hussey 22:20 ... and even when you go into dating with genuine purpose, you, you know, you go on a dating app, 'cause a lot of people out there listening to this won't be in a relationship. They'll be right now in the crapshoot of dating apps-

Jay Shetty 22:30 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 22:30 ... trying to figure out how to navigate. When we're intentional, we bring a different energy to the things we do.

Jay Shetty 22:39 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 22:40 We bring a different energy to a person. And in a relat- I- in early dating, I think that when you're really intentional and when you really are like, "I'm looking for s- a real connection here," you don't actually judge people as quickly.

Jay Shetty 22:53 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 22:54 You don't dispose of people as quickly, where you just go, "Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong-

Jay Shetty 22:59 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 22:59 ... wrong, wrong." You, you start actually looking for what could be right.

Jay Shetty 23:02 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 23:03 You start, and I'm not saying ignoring abusive and toxic behavior.

Jay Shetty 23:05 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 23:05 I'm just saying those superficial things we just, uh, uh, you know, decide, "No, they don't meet this checklist. They don't meet this one," whatever. We lose that because what we're looking for is, is deeper, and we start genuinely seeking to, like, we're on a date, and we start going, "Let me really find out-

Jay Shetty 23:22 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 23:22 ... who this person is."

Jay Shetty 23:23 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 23:24 Like, let me really see them, and let me not be judgmental of them so quickly, and, and look to understand them. And the, the reward for that is that this person now actually feels seen by you.

Jay Shetty 23:35 Yeah. That's great advice.

Matthew Hussey 23:36 And they now give you a different energy than they may have given on the last 10 dates.

Jay Shetty 23:40 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 23:41 You, suddenly they blossom on the date differently because of the energy in front of them. Uh, there's a, a, Mitch Albom wrote a line about, you know, if the culture isn't serving you, then you have to be brave enough to create your own culture.

Jay Shetty 23:56 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 23:57 And in dating-

Jay Shetty 23:59 Wow

Matthew Hussey 23:59 ... for so many people, I, you know, I get all the complaints about dating these days.

Jay Shetty 24:02 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 24:03 You know, it's superficial. It's-

Jay Shetty 24:05 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 24:05 ... no one, everyone's flaky. No one goes on real dates. No one's trying. No one's really committing. No one wants a real relationship. It's like, okay, so what you're describing to me is what you perceive to be a culture-

Jay Shetty 24:15 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 24:15 ... that's not working for you.

Jay Shetty 24:16 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 24:17 But if that culture isn't serving you, then create your own culture-

Jay Shetty 24:24 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 24:24 ... that surrounds you.

Jay Shetty 24:25 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 24:26 And v- and your culture can be powerful, not for the world necessarily, 'cause in, for that, there needs to be a combined cultural shift.

Jay Shetty 24:34 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 24:34 But in your micro life-

Jay Shetty 24:38 Mm

Matthew Hussey 24:38 ... in your micro problems and, and opportunities, the culture you create will have- ... an impact on the people around you.

Jay Shetty 24:46 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 24:46 And it, the same way, you know, I said if you go into a room at a party and you say, "I hope this party's good," well, now you're a victim to what- however this party is.

Jay Shetty 24:58 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 24:58 You know? If everyone seems kinda closed off and mean, and y- you know, just cliquey.

Jay Shetty 25:03 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 25:03 And it's like, "Oh, God," then you go home and you say, "Oh my God, that party was so, you know, it was one of those horrible parties." But if you go in and you say, "I'm gonna, at the very least, be responsible for a part of this party."

Jay Shetty 25:17 Yes. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 25:18 I'm gonna go in, and I'm gonna give the love, and the energy, and the, and the, and the compassion, and the authenticity that I would love for people in this room to join me-

Jay Shetty 25:27 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 25:27 ... in giving. Some will, some won't, and by the way, that's also good 'cause it'll help you find your crowd.

Jay Shetty 25:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 25:31 Right?

Jay Shetty 25:32 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 25:32 So you, you find your crowd by being the thing you wanna be, not by hoping that your crowd elicits it from you.

Jay Shetty 25:38 Completely.

Matthew Hussey 25:39 You found your crowd online by going out and being an energy that you wanted to be first.

Jay Shetty 25:44 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 25:45 And then that crowd noticed you. It's like a lighthouse. All the ships start knowing where to come home-

Jay Shetty 25:50 Mm

Matthew Hussey 25:50 ... because they see the, you know, they see the lighthouse. That, that for me is ... that's one of the most beautiful things about giving energy early on.

Jay Shetty 25:59 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 25:59 I see dating, you know, not just relationships, but I see people in dating these days, it's, the game is who can try less, who can be cooler, who can be-

Jay Shetty 26:07 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 26:07 ... more indifferent. And, and that's honestly not the way to do it. That's certainly the way to attract someone of a lower frequency.

Jay Shetty 26:15 I love that, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:16 Right? You can certainly attract someone who wants the game, who wants the, who's got the demons that make them chase someone who's not into them.

Jay Shetty 26:24 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:24 You know?

Jay Shetty 26:25 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:25 Uh, th- and there are plenty of people with those demons, but you don't wanna be in a relationship with a person like that 'cause v- v- for sure, a person like that, the moment you stop playing hard to get and you turn around to meet them, they're not gonna be interested in you anymore.

Jay Shetty 26:37 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:37 'Cause their demons will tell them, "This person likes us now."

Jay Shetty 26:40 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 26:41 "They're not, they, this person's no longer cool to us."

Jay Shetty 26:43 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:44 "They were only cool to us as long as they didn't like us." So you can't ever-

Jay Shetty 26:47 Which is so messed up.

Matthew Hussey 26:48 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:48 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:49 But it's, you know, it's that, uh, that Groucho Marx thing, "I wouldn't wanna be a member of any club that would have me as a member."

Jay Shetty 26:55 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 26:55 That describes dating insecurity amongst people like that, is I wanna ... That person doesn't want me, they must be a catch.

Jay Shetty 27:02 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:03 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 27:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Matthew Hussey 27:04 And-

Jay Shetty 27:05 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 27:05 ... and so what we have to do is give, when we give a little more energy in dating and say, "You know what? This person who I've known for five minutes, maybe I'm not feeling much energy here, but I'm just gonna give some energy."

Jay Shetty 27:21 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 27:22 I'm gonna give an amount of energy I'm willing to lose.

Jay Shetty 27:24 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 27:24 Right? That's an i- a key way of looking at it.

Jay Shetty 27:27 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:27 What you don't do is you keep trying with someone who's not giving you equal energy back.

Jay Shetty 27:30 Yes, yes.

Matthew Hussey 27:30 That, that then becomes masochistic.

Jay Shetty 27:32 Right.

Matthew Hussey 27:33 But giving an amount of energy you're willing to lose, I always think about that in every interaction.

Jay Shetty 27:37 That's so true, yeah. I like that.

Matthew Hussey 27:38 Give an amount you don't mind losing.

Jay Shetty 27:40 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:40 It's like going into the casino and playing, like, roulette. It's like, "All right. I'm in Vegas. I'll give, like, 100 bucks."

Jay Shetty 27:47 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:47 "And then I'm not spending anything else here in these casinos."

Jay Shetty 27:50 Yes, yes.

Matthew Hussey 27:50 That's it.

Jay Shetty 27:50 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:51 You know, for me, it's normally, like, 10 bucks-

Jay Shetty 27:52 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 27:52 ... 'cause I just, I, I'm not a gambler. But-

Jay Shetty 27:55 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 27:55 ... you just decide, "What am I happy to lose?" And it's the same with energy. It's, you know, I'm dating right now. I wanna find someone amazing, someone beautiful. I'm gonna give to everyone I interact with an amount of energy I don't mind losing.

Jay Shetty 28:09 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 28:10 And some people, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring out the people who-

Jay Shetty 28:15 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 28:15 ... who now are willing to give it back 'cause all of a sudden they'll, they might be jolted out of their little coma-

Jay Shetty 28:20 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 28:20 ... that they've been in because they're disillusioned with dating, and they feel like no one's trying. And so they went into their shell, but they, now they see you with a different level of warmth and playfulness and, and, and just positivity, and they go-

Jay Shetty 28:33 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 28:33 ... "Huh, who is this? This makes me feel good."

Jay Shetty 28:35 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 28:35 And then they come out a little bit, and all of a sudden you see who they are. You wake them up a little bit. And then, uh, there's a bunch of people you won't, and that's okay 'cause you were willing to lose that much energy.

Jay Shetty 28:45 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 28:45 But what people do instead, they do a far more dangerous thing of being afraid of the rejection from people that they approach or talk to in the first five minutes. God forbid I get rejected in the first five minutes. But then they'll meet someone where they have a bit of connection and chemistry, but who isn't trying, who isn't giving them equal energy, and they'll keep pouring energy into that person month after month after month when they're not getting the same in return.

Jay Shetty 29:14 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 29:15 And they think that's safer than going out there and getting rejected by a new person.

Jay Shetty 29:20 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 29:20 But actually, this is the dangerous one.

Jay Shetty 29:22 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 29:23 The being rejected in five minutes by someone who doesn't even know you, who, who, on an app, how much can someone really reject you anyway?

Jay Shetty 29:29 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 29:29 And we all know our experience. We've all chosen people in life who on an app we might have swiped right past.

Jay Shetty 29:35 Absolutely.

Matthew Hussey 29:36 Right? So-

Jay Shetty 29:36 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 29:36 ... we know from our own personal experience that if we get rejected on an app, it doesn't even mean that person wouldn't like us in real life.

Jay Shetty 29:42 Totally. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 29:43 Right? But we're so afraid of that rejection. That's mortal fear, is that rejection, and yet continuing to waste months or years on someone who's, who's giving us unequal energy-

Jay Shetty 29:56 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 29:56 ... is something people happily do.

Jay Shetty 29:58 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 29:58 They spend that time like it's nothing.

Jay Shetty 30:01 Because-

Matthew Hussey 30:01 And that's the really dangerous one

Jay Shetty 30:02 ... because it feels safe, because it feels like there's something at least. Is that-

Matthew Hussey 30:05 There's some connection. There's some comf- well, there's a couple of things. It's, firstly, it's comfortable.

Jay Shetty 30:10 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 30:10 Right? It's, it's what I know. Doesn't mean I'm ... Happiness and comfort are very different things. It's not happy. I'm not happy. I'm not getting my needs met, but it's comfortable.

Jay Shetty 30:18 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 30:18 Right? So I'll stay in it for that reason. It's the fear of I'll never find anyone again.

Jay Shetty 30:24 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 30:25 Which is a fallacy 'cause you found this person.

Jay Shetty 30:27 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 30:27 You, you did it already.

Jay Shetty 30:28 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 30:29 You know? And it, by the way, this person's not so unique that they're the only person in the world that's gonna find you attractive.

Jay Shetty 30:33 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 30:34 Right? Like, they're attracted to you 'cause you're attractive.

Jay Shetty 30:36 Yeah. But that's the crazy thing, right? We have this massive paradox between there's now unlimited choice more than ever.

Matthew Hussey 30:43 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 30:43 You feel like you have way more choice than you had before, but then we have- ... limitless fear to go with that, that we may not find anyone ever again.

Speaker 30:52 Yeah, I talk in the book about the difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion.

Jay Shetty 30:56 Yes, I love that.

Speaker 30:56 Um-

Jay Shetty 30:56 Yeah, tell us about it. Yeah.

Speaker 30:57 So idiot compassion is what our friends do. It's like, you know, someone breaks up with you, and you're like, "Oh, he was a jerk," even though we know that, like, this has happened the last three times because there's certain ways you behave in the relationship that lead to this outcome. Or, you know, you didn't get the promotion you wanted, and we know why that happened because that keeps happening to you, and we say, "Oh, your boss is, doesn't see your talent," when we really know what's going on. But we don't wanna rock the boat, and we think we're being supportive, but it's not really supportive. And so, you know, it's kind of like if a fight breaks out in every bar you're going to, it might be you.

Jay Shetty 31:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 31:29 But we don't, we don't say that.

Jay Shetty 31:30 No.

Speaker 31:30 That's idiot compassion, right?

Jay Shetty 31:31 Yeah.

Speaker 31:31 Wise compassion is holding up that mirror, but the clear mirror, not the dusty mirror.

Jay Shetty 31:35 Yeah.

Speaker 31:36 And it's holding up that mirror, and it's like, "I'm gonna help you to look at yourself in a way that maybe you haven't been willing or able to see."

Jay Shetty 31:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 31:42 "And I think you're gonna like what you see because it's gonna help you navigate through the world in a much smoother way."

Jay Shetty 31:50 Yeah.

Speaker 31:50 "And maybe you will have to make some changes," which people [laughs] uh, you know, people usually come into therapy, and they're like, "I want things to change," and what they want to change is someone else or something else.

Jay Shetty 31:59 [laughs]

Speaker 31:59 They don't realize that they are going to have to make some changes.

Jay Shetty 32:02 Yeah.

Speaker 32:02 And I, and I wanna say, like, "You're the protagonist in this story. You're gonna have to make some changes."

Jay Shetty 32:07 Yeah, absolutely, and o- one of the things I think we struggle with that is, I was talking about this with a friend the other day. We were on a walk, and we were saying that she was being really vulnerable and open. She's amazing. I know she listens to the podcast. You know who you are. Uh-

Speaker 32:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:18 ... it's, [laughs] won't say names. Uh, but it's, it's the feeling of we want people to be honest with us, but we struggle to be honest with people.

Speaker 32:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:28 So it's a weird, like, it's a weird circle because we, it's like me saying, "Lori, I want you to be really honest with me about how this podcast is going." But then when my friend asks me how their podcast is going, I'm not telling them the truth.

Speaker 32:40 Yes.

Jay Shetty 32:40 But I'm expecting you to tell me the truth.

Speaker 32:42 Yes.

Jay Shetty 32:42 And so almost we become demanders of the truth but not givers of, and then that continues that circle, if that makes sense. And so how, how do we actually open ourselves up to create space for friendships like that? Because I almost think in the same way as you're saying we're creating those scenarios in our life, again, at work or in relationships-

Speaker 33:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:00 ... we are inviting idiot compassion into our life-

Speaker 33:03 That's right

Jay Shetty 33:04 ... because we're not ready for it almost, right?

Speaker 33:05 Right, we have to be able to hear it. I see this so much with couples that I see. So a lot of times, um, you know, somebody will say, and I see this most typically in, like, a heterosexual couple where, uh, the woman says to the man, "I want you to be really vulnerable with me. I wanna understand your inner life. Want you to open up to me." And then he does, and he starts crying, and she is frozen, you know? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:27 [laughs]

Speaker 33:27 She's like, "Wha- whoa. I," you know, "be careful what you wish for," right?

Jay Shetty 33:30 Not this much. Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 33:31 Yeah, I di- I didn't, I didn't mean like that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:32 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 33:33 Um, right? Or if someone's like, or if the thing that they're being truthful about is something about something going on between the two of you.

Jay Shetty 33:39 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 33:39 And people are so afraid to share that. So maybe they'll be open about something out there, but if it's like, "There's something I wanna talk to you about us," and the person says, "Yeah, I wanna hear. I want you to be really open and honest with me," until you really say, "I notice this happens between us, and here's something about you," and the person's like, "Whoa, I didn't wanna hear that," right?

Jay Shetty 34:00 Yeah.

Speaker 34:00 So we're so uncomfortable with other people's truth. You don't have to agree with somebody else's feelings, but you have to know that their feelings are valid, which doesn't mean that you have the same feelings. There's a distinction. It's almost like the difference between, um, when somebody really wants someone to forgive them, and I always say, like there's a woman in the book. She wants her adult children to forgive her for what she had done. They're estranged from her. They... And I said, "You know what? You can't... You're, you're asking for something called forced forgiveness, that, that people are not going to forgive you because it will make you feel better." And sometimes not forgiving is okay. It's okay if your children never forgive you. Maybe they will have compassion for you. Maybe they will see you as the mother that they want now even though you couldn't be that then.

Jay Shetty 34:49 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 34:49 Um, we have to learn how to forgive ourselves. But so many times if someone says, "I'm really upset about this," we say we wanna hear that, but we don't know how to, um, how to let it in, how to be open to it.

Jay Shetty 35:04 Yeah, and how do you in the, in the therapy room and in your life and when you're advising people, people live, or sometimes we assume that people live very problem-driven lives. So when they come and see you, they feel they have to start with a problem.

Speaker 35:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 35:19 Or sometimes when you see a friend, you feel like you have to share something that's going wrong for there to be a conversation. I feel like almost problems and wrongs have become better conversation starters or more, I would say, more comfortable conversation starters for people as opposed to something positive. Do you see that a lot? Is that-

Speaker 35:35 Well, you know what's so interesting?

Jay Shetty 35:36 Yeah.

Speaker 35:36 I think that we have this weird dichotomy where on the internet everybody's posting all the positive things.

Jay Shetty 35:43 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 35:43 Um, in person, everybody's sharing all the negative things.

Jay Shetty 35:46 So true. Yeah.

Speaker 35:47 Um, and so there's not that balance. I, I, I think that a lot of the time we're, we're kind of, uh, using our friendships to kind of download our problems, but we're not actually listening. When I was training, I was doing my internship, a clinical supervisor said, "You have two ears and one mouth. There's a reason for that ratio."

Jay Shetty 36:06 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 36:08 I think we don't know how to listen, and so sometimes, uh, we feel like when someone's telling us something that we need to problem solve for them.

Jay Shetty 36:15 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 36:15 Um, we don't know just how to sit with them and not fix it for them.

Jay Shetty 36:19 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 36:19 And we don't realize too that sometimes we're helping them by helping them to hear themselves more clearly.

Jay Shetty 36:27 Yes.

Speaker 36:27 And if we talk for them, if we talk over them, they can't hear themselves. We're talking over their internal voice.

Jay Shetty 36:34 That, that, that, that last bit there at the end that you just mentioned is so powerful. We're talking over their internal voice, and actually simply listening to them allows them to hear themselves.

Speaker 36:43 Yes.

Jay Shetty 36:44 And ah, you're so right. I, I feel like my best conversations are definitely when I, I can find the narrative just by being able to share and share and share because most of the time we share, we, we talk for two minutes, and the person giving the answer talks for eight.

Speaker 36:57 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:58 And it's almost like, uh, you know, now it's, okay, now do I take that answer? They don't quite understand me, and then, right, it just kind of gets lost. So how do we shift, is talking about our problems useful? With who is it useful, and, and when is it useful?

Speaker 37:12 Yeah. I think you have to choose your audience.

Jay Shetty 37:14 Yeah.

Speaker 37:15 I think so many times people have had bad experiences. Let's say that growing up they had bad experiences, and so then they end up choosing someone who will disappoint them, and then they say, "See? See what happens when I'm vulnerable? See how that doesn't work?"

Jay Shetty 37:28 Yeah.

Speaker 37:28 Um, and, and what happens-

Jay Shetty 37:30 I-

Speaker 37:30 ... is they, they don't realize that they're repeating this pattern. One thing that therapy really does for people is it helps them to see you are making choices that are, are repeating, that are helping you to repeat a pattern that is making you unhappy.

Jay Shetty 37:44 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 37:44 That is keeping you stuck. And, and people don't realize that they're doing that. Um, there's a woman in the book who keeps hooking up with the wrong guys, right? Um, and including, by the way, one from the waiting room. I don't mean in the waiting room. It's not that exciting in our office.

Jay Shetty 37:58 [laughs]

Speaker 37:58 But, but she meets him in the waiting room, and I know because of her pattern that, you know, this is gonna be a disaster. And she keeps saying, "Oh, it's the guys. It's this person. It's that person." And she doesn't realize that these people are so much like the people she grew up around. Um, and I don't mean that we're blaming people's parents, because I think that most parents did their absolute best. You know, most parents really want to be a good parent, but sometimes they didn't know how, or they were very limited, or there was some mental, there were some mental health issues or whatever it might be. And so they couldn't give their kids that, that mirroring experience that, you know, is something that they would want in an adult relationship. And so with her, it takes her so long to realize that when she meets someone who is going to give her what she wants, she's like, "Oh, I'm not attracted. No chemistry." Right? It's almost like, like she doesn't know how to be around someone who will give her what she wants.

Jay Shetty 38:51 Hmm.

Speaker 38:52 And there's a, there's a learning process around, well, wait a minute, just because something feels familiar, um, like the person who disappoints you, doesn't mean it's right. You know, that chemistry that she kept feeling was like, "Oh, you feel familiar. Come closer."

Jay Shetty 39:04 Yeah.

Speaker 39:04 It's like, no. [laughs] The fact that you feel familiar should be a sign, like let's try something different.

Jay Shetty 39:10 Different.

Speaker 39:11 Let's go into this place of unfamiliarity, and it will be uncomfortable because you don't know the customs in this country. You haven't been to this country before. You're gonna have to use your guidebook and, and learn your way around a little bit. But why don't you see what it's like over in that country, right?

Jay Shetty 39:26 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What, what is your take on the elusive chemistry when people talk about it in their partnerships? And, you know, the way I've always understood it is I've always felt that when you look at chemistry and compatibility, chemistry is something that I can feel multiple times a day with different people.

Speaker 39:42 Yep.

Jay Shetty 39:42 I can feel it with the barista. I can feel it with my personal trainer. I can feel it with someone I'm just taking the train home with. Like, chemistry is something I can feel over and over again. Compatibility is something I can't. It's not as easily replaceable. It took longer to build, and it's something that I have with less people in the world in general.

Speaker 39:58 Yep.

Jay Shetty 39:59 Uh, and, and so for me, I've, I always look at chemistry as that elusive thing because I hear the same. My friends will come back from dates and be like, "Jay, like, but there was no chemistry." And I'm like, okay. Well, so, so tell me about that and how you've tackled helping people understand chemistry and, and filter it better.

Speaker 40:14 Yeah. So this is... I, I'm lo- I love that we're having this conversation because this is such an important part of relationship. So many times people will say, you know, they went on a first date with somebody, and they're like, "Yeah, no, I had a really good time, but there was no chemistry." And I said, well, the having the really good time might mean that there's potential for chemistry.

Jay Shetty 40:35 Yes.

Speaker 40:35 Um, but what they do is because they're on the apps and they say, "Oh, well, there's like 10,000 other people that I can date," um, and they just keep recycling and recycling and recycling, and they don't give something time or space to grow.

Jay Shetty 40:48 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 40:48 And chemistry sometimes happens right away, and other times it takes time to grow. So, um, there are these surveys that were done where, where men and women were, were followed, um, for 20 years from the moment that they went on a first date through marriages, divorces, you know, all these things. And what happened was a lot of people have revised their stories depending on what happened later. So the people who, um, are happily married, let's say, a lot of them said, you know, "Well, tell us about the first date." When they're telling it now they say, "Oh yeah, there was w- instant chemistry." But what they reported at the time was, "Yeah, I don't know, maybe I'll go on a second date. I don't know. There's not a lot here." But it builds, and so their story became there was instant chemistry.

Jay Shetty 41:29 Yeah.

Speaker 41:29 Right? Now, the people who were divorced, sometimes they would say, "Oh, I knew I never liked this person from the beginning."

Jay Shetty 41:34 [laughs]

Speaker 41:34 And yet at the time they reported, "Oh my God, we had this amazing chemistry." Right? So it's not very reliable that first time is what I'm trying to say.

Jay Shetty 41:41 Yeah.

Speaker 41:41 Um, it takes time. So you, you go on a first date or a first meeting with somebody and, and you say, "Did you, did you have a good time? Would you like to spend another hour with this person?"

Jay Shetty 41:50 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 41:51 And then see whether something develops. Sometimes it does. A lot of the times it does. A lot of the time it doesn't. But you won't know until you give it some breathing room.

Jay Shetty 42:00 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 42:00 I should say, too, that, you know, there's a saying that we marry our unfinished business.

Jay Shetty 42:04 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 42:04 And what I mean by that is that a lot of times if you haven't worked through some of these, um, ways of being in relationship that didn't work very well for you, you seek them out in other people without realizing it. So the person will look very different, let's say, from your mom or your dad or whomever, and yet, um, once you get to know that person, you're like, oh God, [laughs] you know?

Jay Shetty 42:27 Yeah.

Speaker 42:27 Like, oh, wait, this, this feels really... Like, oh, I recognize that. I didn't see that at all. Right? So that's our unfinished business. So you really gotta work through your stuff so that you can meet the person that you're gonna have true, authentic chemistry with, and not this kind of like chaotic chemistry with.

Jay Shetty 42:46 Yeah. Chaotic chemistry is a really nice way to put it because, yeah, that's often what it is, is like everything's chaotic, but we feel chemistry. [laughs]

Speaker 42:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:54 It's, you know, it's like-

Speaker 42:54 Well, people will say, "I have so much chemistry with this person even though I can't rely on this person," or, "I'm always nervous. I'm always on edge. I never know where I stand with this person."

Jay Shetty 43:02 Yeah.

Speaker 43:02 "But we have so much chemistry."

Jay Shetty 43:04 Chemistry, yeah.

Speaker 43:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:05 [laughs] Yeah, and it's just... A- and it's crazy how- I, I would love to date back actually, and I'm, I'm doing some research on it right now. I'd love to hear if you already know this, but I'm, I'm really interested in where that desire for chemistry ever even sourced, like where it started, like that want that we all have for wanting to feel chemistry. Like, I wonder whether it was a movie or... Because I remember the first time I wanted a girlfriend was because I watched a movie.

Speaker 43:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:28 My favorite character, like, was attracted to this girl, and I was like, "Oh, maybe I should have a girlfriend." Like, I didn't... You know, I, I was a kid, and I didn't even know what that meant.

Speaker 43:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:36 But it was just so cleverly planted into my mind that I didn't feel complete without a partner. And, and it's fascinating to me to look at where these things started because sometimes they're just things that you've heard over and over again in movies or books or-

Speaker 43:49 Well, I-

Jay Shetty 43:49 ... songs and...

Speaker 43:50 Yeah, I mean, I think that we, we define chemistry as sort of like this instant magical thing.

Jay Shetty 43:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 43:56 Um, and, and chemistry is, is so multifactorial. It's about, you know, what is this energy that goes on between the two of you and, and how are you together in daily life-

Jay Shetty 44:07 Yeah

Speaker 44:07 ... not, like, on the vacation in Tahiti.

Jay Shetty 44:09 Totally.

Speaker 44:09 Right? Um, so when people think about spending their lives with somebody, it's about the day to day. It's about, how do we get through the hard things?

Jay Shetty 44:16 Mm.

Speaker 44:16 How do we listen to each other? How do we deal with, um, the places that we disagree?

Jay Shetty 44:22 Mm.

Speaker 44:22 How do we deal with the differences between us? 'Cause we think of chemistry as, like, that overlap. Like, we, we both love sushi and rollerblading and this movie and that book and, you know, and, and we're vegan and, you know, whatever it is, [laughs] right?

Jay Shetty 44:34 Yeah.

Speaker 44:35 Um, and that's not chemistry.

Jay Shetty 44:37 Yeah.

Speaker 44:37 Chemistry is, how do we inhabit the same space knowing that we're two separate human beings, and how do we stay connected even with the space between us?

Jay Shetty 44:47 Mm. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's... Yeah, that's really powerful. Tell me about the, uh... Tell me about dealing with the paradox of being perceived as someone who has all the answers but also is knowingly trying to grow in their own life. Like, how, how does that paradox work for you-

Speaker 45:05 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:06 ... when it's like, you know, the perception not only of your clients now, like, you know, you're gonna have a TV show about the book, like, the book's been so incredibly successful, which is helping so many people. How do you deal with that personally, of that feeling of, yeah, I do have answers, and I do know how to help people, obviously. People are being helped. Like, you are changing people's lives. And at the same time you're like, "Yeah, but I'm still learning, and I've still gotta work on this, and I'm still working on this." How do, how do you deal with that paradox, or how, how do you navigate it?

Speaker 45:30 Yeah. Well, well, that's interesting because... So in the book I follow four very different patients where I'm their therapist, and then the fifth patient in the book [laughs] is me-

Jay Shetty 45:40 Yeah

Speaker 45:40 ... as I go through my own therapy with my therapist. And a lot of people say, "Well, why?" You know, "Are you insane?" You know, "Why? [laughs] Why would you do that?" Uh, before, before the book came out. Um-

Jay Shetty 45:49 I think it's really smart. [laughs]

Speaker 45:50 And it was... Well, the reason I did it-

Jay Shetty 45:52 Yeah

Speaker 45:52 ... is because I really felt like if my patients were gonna be so vulnerable, I felt it would be disingenuous to be the expert up on high helping these people when I was going through something in my own life. And, and we all struggle. And, and so I say at the very beginning of the book that my greatest credential is that I'm a card-carrying member of the human race.

Jay Shetty 46:11 Mm.

Speaker 46:11 And it was so important for me to show how we're all more the same than we are different, and I think that that makes what people can learn from the book so much more powerful and impactful. Um, what's interesting, though, is that even though I was very sure that I wanted to do that, once the book, um... So, you know, I, I was supposed to be writing a different book. I was supposed to be writing a book about happiness.

Jay Shetty 46:33 [laughs]

Speaker 46:34 And, and it, it just felt so empty to me because I feel like happiness is a byproduct of living our, our lives in a, in a fulfilling way, in a meaningful way, is really what we all hope for, but happiness as the goal in and of itself felt like a recipe for disaster. So I felt like it was just... I was, I was a therapist, and I was trying to write this book about happiness, and it was making me depressed, ironically. I called it The Miserable Depression-Inducing Happiness Book.

Jay Shetty 46:56 [laughs]

Speaker 46:56 And so I ended up not writing that book, and then I ended up writing this book, and, and I thought, like, maybe three people would read it 'cause everybody said, "Oh, you know, nobody wants to, nobody wants to read a book about therapy."

Jay Shetty 47:05 [laughs]

Speaker 47:05 And it's not. It's a book about the human condition. Um, and so once the book was turned in and, and the sales team got it at the publisher and everybody started, like, passing the book around. And, and I thought, "Oh, no. Maybe like..." 'Cause I thought, like, three people would read it. Now I'm like, maybe 300 will read it, maybe 3,000.

Jay Shetty 47:20 Yeah.

Speaker 47:20 I didn't realize, like, we're like 10 months on The New York Times list now.

Jay Shetty 47:23 Yeah, congratulations.

Speaker 47:24 And so... Well, thank you.

Jay Shetty 47:25 It's awesome.

Speaker 47:25 I, I say that only in the context of, um, if I had known how many people were going to be reading it, I think I would have hesitated to be so open.

Jay Shetty 47:35 [laughs]

Speaker 47:35 I let it rip. I mean, I, I do not come off well.

Jay Shetty 47:37 Yeah.

Speaker 47:38 I mean, I'm very just, "Here's what happened," and I just let it go. Um, and so I'm really glad that I didn't clean myself up because I think that if I had-

Jay Shetty 47:48 Yeah

Speaker 47:48 ... people wouldn't have read it. I think that the reason that people are responding to it and seeing themselves in these stories is because we're all so real in the book.

Jay Shetty 47:56 Mm. I agree.

Speaker 47:57 You know, nobody's cleaned up in the book.

Jay Shetty 47:58 Yeah. I agree. I, I, and I think that's beautiful, and I, I, I do think that that message is so much stronger today as well, and I, I'm really glad that you didn't know how successful the book was gonna be. [laughs]

Speaker 48:09 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:10 It's great. And it's funny, though, isn't it, that we, we feel that sometimes, like, you would... And, and I'm glad you didn't, and I know you didn't too because you're, you're very happy sharing. But it is weird that we think, "Oh, if that many more people were gonna see this, I wouldn't." What is it about that? Is that just more chances and odds of people having issues with us or challenging us? Like, what is that that stops us from being more vulnerable the more people see us? Because I feel when you're not well known, it's like you strive to be well known, and then when you meet people who are well known, they're almost striving for more privacy.

Speaker 48:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:44 You c- You know, it's like... Right? I'm sure you see that in your work all the time.

Speaker 48:48 I do. I think that, um, people are afraid. I mean, I think there's shame there. You know, like, that-

Jay Shetty 48:52 Right

Speaker 48:52 ... that, that as a therapist, um, you know, letting people see me struggle.

Jay Shetty 48:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 48:57 And say, you know, here I, I... I mean, I do all the things with my therapist that my patients do with me.

Jay Shetty 49:03 Mm.

Speaker 49:03 So, so you see me. Like, I wanna be liked by him, and I Google stalk him one night, and I, you know, I do all these things.

Jay Shetty 49:09 Yeah.

Speaker 49:09 Um, and it's embarrassing, um, you know, to... Because you think, "Well, people will think less of me. People will think that I'm less competent," or, um, you know, whatever you imagine, and that's not been the case at all.

Jay Shetty 49:20 Yeah.

Speaker 49:21 You know, I think that people have said, I w- you know, "I, I, I really, I really value what you share."

Jay Shetty 49:27 Mm.

Speaker 49:27 Um-

Jay Shetty 49:28 Love that

Speaker 49:28 ... "I really respect you. I admire you for that." And, and I think that that translates to people out in the world being more open with each other.

Jay Shetty 49:34 Yeah.

Speaker 49:34 Because the title of the book, Maybe You Should Talk To Someone, doesn't mean we should all go to therapy necessarily. It means we all need to talk more to each other.

Jay Shetty 49:43 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 49:44 And so the more that I can model that for people, if I can't You know, walk the talk. If I can't do what I'm asking people to do, then there's a big gap.

Jay Shetty 49:54 Yes.

Speaker 49:55 But if I actually do it, I think it helps people to say, "Oh, well, if she can do it-

Jay Shetty 50:00 Yeah

Speaker 50:00 ... then I can do it, too."

Jay Shetty 50:01 Absolutely. Absolutely. And what have you seen are those patterns of clients that you find that you're working with that have seen the biggest transformations in their life? Are there patterns in those people that they have certain shared beliefs, values, work ethic, habits that, that help them take whatever advice you gave or other therapists have given them that have actually changed? Like, what has been that kind of X factor that people have shared?

Speaker 50:27 Um, I think that what happens is they release the story that they came in with, and, and sometimes it's these stories of, you know, um, there's the content of what they're saying, like, "Here's what's going on in my relationship. Here's what's going on, uh, with my anxiety."

Jay Shetty 50:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 50:42 Um, and they have a story about it. So they think that the content is the story, but what I'm listening for is sort of the music under the lyrics.

Jay Shetty 50:49 Mm.

Speaker 50:49 So the lyrics are, you know, "I'm having panic attacks."

Jay Shetty 50:52 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 50:53 The music is what is the underlying struggle or pattern that is getting you into this situation?

Jay Shetty 50:58 Mm.

Speaker 50:59 Um, and once they can see that, that can translate into everything that happens in their daily lives.

Jay Shetty 51:04 Mm.

Speaker 51:05 But I think it takes courage. I think it takes so much courage for them to say, "I'm going to make changes." I always like to say that insight is the booby prize of therapy, that you can have all the insight in the world. You can say, "Now I understand why I'm struggling in this way. Now I understand why I have these arguments with my partner." And I'll say, "Well, did you do something different?"

Jay Shetty 51:24 Yeah.

Speaker 51:24 And they'll say, "Well, no, but now I understand it." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:26 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 51:26 I'll say, "Well, you're not really doing the work, because you have to do something different." And I love this Viktor Frankl quote that's in the book where he had written, um, "Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is the power to choose our response.

Jay Shetty 51:45 Mm.

Speaker 51:45 In our response, it lies our growth and our freedom." So yes, there might be difficult people, but then the question is what is our role in that? So why are we in that relationship, or what is our role in making that relationship so chaotic, so difficult, so, um, s- there's so much tension in it? Why is that?

Jay Shetty 52:05 Mm.

Speaker 52:05 So what, what is it that, that we can do next time that person does that thing that triggers us? Can we have a different response? 'Cause the response we keep giving-

Jay Shetty 52:13 Yes. [laughs]

Speaker 52:14 ... is yielding-

Jay Shetty 52:15 Yeah

Speaker 52:15 ... the same thing. Nothing's changing. So when we talk about insight is the booby prize of therapy, it's not just having the insight, it's you have to make changes, and you have to look. That means that you can make changes. You're not gonna change the other person, but your changes can influence another person.

Jay Shetty 52:30 Yeah.

Speaker 52:30 So it's always like doing a dance, right?

Jay Shetty 52:32 Yeah.

Speaker 52:32 And so if you change your dance steps, that person either has to change their dance steps, too, or they will fall flat on the floor, or they can leave the dance floor.

Jay Shetty 52:40 Yeah.

Speaker 52:41 But the good thing is you changed your dance steps.

Jay Shetty 52:43 Mm.

Speaker 52:44 And that's the thing when you say what is the unifying thing that all of them have in common when they've made changes that have really, really transformed their lives, it's about they, they chose different dance steps.

Jay Shetty 52:56 Does your partner often feel distant and you struggle to connect? Do you feel like your partner nags you or is too demanding and you wish you had more space? Or if you're single, does it often seem like when you're getting close to someone, they become distant or even ghost you? Or do you frequently feel that people want too much from you? Do you experience problems in your current relationship or in a past relationship that seem to follow similar patterns? If so, then this video is for you. [piano music] Today we're going to talk about the single biggest, most consistent factor that's impacting all of your relationships that you've probably never heard of, your attachment style. Your attachment style is something that developed in the first years of life, and while it's estimated that around half of us have what's called a secure attachment style, the rest of us have an insecure attachment style, and that's where a lot of our relationship challenges come from. Now, I'm going to ask you six questions, and for each question, there will be three options to choose from. Pick the option that most resonates with you and put a tick next to the corresponding column on your piece of paper. Ready? Here we go. [bell dings] Question one, you're at a party or other social function and you see your partner interacting with someone in a way that seems flirtatious. Option one, you take it in your stride because you trust your partner. Option two, you become jealous and ask your partner to justify themselves. Or option three, you don't say anything about it, but withdraw from your partner. Maybe you're cold or distant the rest of the night. So if you choose option one, take it in your stride, give yourself a tick in the C column. If you choose option two, become jealous, put a tick in the A column. And if you choose option three, distance yourself from your partner, put a tick in the B column. See how this works? [bell dings] Question two, when you start to feel close to someone, you do what? Option one, you enjoy the feeling and look forward to seeing where the relationship goes. Option two, you start daydreaming about where and when your wedding will take place. Option three, you put on the brakes to ensure things aren't moving too fast. So if you chose option one, you enjoy the feeling, put a tick in the C column. If you chose option two, start planning your wedding, put a tick in the A column. And if you choose option three, put on the brakes, put a tick in column B. Now here's question three. When it comes to relationships in your life, option one, you look to others to provide you with a sense of security. Option two, you have more acquaintances than friends or a romantic partner, but that's fine because you can take care of yourself. Option three, you have a variety of relationships in your life, and you enjoy being able to rely on others for support as well as having others rely on you. If you choose option one, others help you feel secure, put a tick in column A. If you chose option two, you can take care of yourself, put a tick in column B. And if you chose option three, you have a variety of relationships, put a tick in column C. Question four, the best relationships, option one, feel uncomplicated. Option two, feel like a team. Option three, feel safe. Now I know this is a harder one to choose for many of you, but again, pick your strongest response. Like if you were to rate these, choose whatever is at the top of your list. For option one, feel uncomplicated, give yourself a tick in column B. For option two, feel like a team, give yourself a tick in column C. And for option three, feel safe, give yourself a tick in column A. Question five, you're doing great by the way. I sometimes or often worry that, option one, my partner will leave me. Option two, my partner wants too much from me. Option three, I sometimes worry about issues with my partner, but generally I don't have big overall worries or anxieties about the relationship. If you went with option one, you worry your partner will leave you, give yourself a tick in column A. If you went with option two, you worry your partner wants too much, give yourself a tick in column B. And if you went with option three, no overall worries about the relationship, give yourself a tick in the C column. Okay, last question, question number six. When my partner and I disagree, option one, I generally feel comfortable expressing my thoughts and opinions. Option two, I feel nervous to say how I feel. Option three, I try to say as little as possible. If you chose option one, you feel comfortable expressing yourself, give yourself a tick in column C. If you chose option two, you feel nervous to say how you feel, give yourself a tick in column A. And if you chose option three, you try to say as little as possible, give yourself a tick in column B. Now go ahead and hit pause if you need to tally your scores. How many ticks have you got in each column? Now if you've tallied up your scores, you'll probably see that you've got ticks in more than one column. That's because most of us are not all one attachment style. While we usually have one that's dominant, we can show characteristics of other styles as well. So if you have most of your ticks under letter A, it's likely you have more of an anxious attachment style. If you have the anxious attachment style, this is for you. And I want to give a shout-out, some of the following information on attachment styles is from counselor Adam Young, who is a licensed clinical social worker. You can check out his work. So if that describes you, again, nothing to feel bad about here. This is just information that you can use in a helpful way to become aware. Now if you scored mostly letter B in the quiz, you likely have an avoidant attachment style. According to estimates, which again vary a bit, about 20% of people have this style. If you mostly answered letter C, you have a primary secure attachment style. This is the most common attachment style, with estimates that around 50 to 55% of us have secure attachment. So those are the attachment styles. Now incidentally, you won't see many secure types portrayed in popular programming, because they make for the least drama. Remember Chandler from Friends? His high anxiety and fear over losing Monica, and his jealousy and reluctance to believe she truly loved him, revealed his anxious attachment style. You can also think of Tony Stark, AKA Iron Man, as a classic avoidant type. Remember how he would use his sarcasm and obsession with technology to try and keep people from getting close to him and avoid emotional interactions. Now that you know the attachment styles, you can even play a game with your partner or friends watching shows and identifying the different characters' styles. So how do we take this information we learned from the test about our own attachment style and use it in a positive way in our current or future relationships? Here are three steps to doing that. Step one is to give yourself a chance to digest and process what you just learned. There's a lot there. Now some of you will want to do that by yourself. Others process things by talking them out. I'll advise you that if your partner wants to process by themselves and you want to talk it out, maybe connect with a friend or other loved one you can talk to, so you can give your partner a bit of space to process what they've learned. Step two is for you and your partner to share what you've learned about yourselves with the other person. You're not gonna focus on the relationship at this point. You're going to take turns sharing what you've learned while the other partner just listens. Now if you're the listener, I want you to resist the temptation to comment on what the other person is sharing. Your role at this point is only to listen. If you need to say something, you can acknowledge, "I hear you," or, "Yes, I'm listening," or, "What I'm hearing you say is..." and making sure that you're on the right path. Step three is going to be having that conversation where you discuss what you've learned about your attachment style and your partner's impact, your understanding of the dynamics of your relationship. I think this is an opportunity to exercise compassion. Hopefully now you have a greater understanding of what's behind a repeat pattern or a problem. I really hope that these attachment styles are going to help you form more self-awareness and a deeper bond with the people in your life. Having this awareness allows you to connect with people with more compassion, more love, which will improve the quality and the health of all of your interactions. I've been with my wife for six years now. We've been married for three, and all I'm trying to share is the journey and the process of figuring it out. That's all I'm trying to share. And when I... She was the first guest on my podcast that I interviewed, and the whole conversation was, "Here's all the mistakes we made in our first three years of marriage. Like, this is what we got wrong."

1:02:46 Oh, wow, you, you went in?

1:02:47 That's what we talked about, because I wanted people to hear how much stuff we've worked through.

1:02:52 Yeah.

1:02:52 Because that's the fun of it, because when you can have fun working through stuff and people are hearing that-

1:02:57 Yeah

1:02:57 ... they're like, "Oh, my relationship's not so different now."

1:02:59 Right.

1:02:59 Because if all I'm seeing is the selfies and the happiness and all that kind of stuff.

1:03:03 All the surface stuff.

1:03:03 So, so for me, that's, that's where my expertise is. My expertise is, how do I share while I'm going through it, and share with you just the experience I have? So, like, I'm not giving advice to couples who have kids. Like-

1:03:14 Right

1:03:14 ... uh, because I've not been through that.

1:03:15 Right.

1:03:15 I don't know what that feels like. When I go through it-

1:03:17 Right

1:03:17 ... I'll figure it out and I'll share some. So-

1:03:19 Right

1:03:19 ... I'm sharing pre-marriage, getting married, the early years of marriage, what I'm learning-

1:03:24 Of course

1:03:24 ... from that process.

1:03:24 Which also is a really hard part of the marriage.

1:03:27 I think so.

1:03:27 It is. Our first year was quite, um, interesting, to say the least.

1:03:32 Go on.

1:03:33 I mean, it was just like we waited till we were married to have sex. We hadn't lived together. My career was really kinda just started taking off, and he went to grad school, and it was like finding this balance of, like, who we are in so many different aspects, but, like, knowing that divorce is not an option. So it's like, we have to focus and work on this.

1:03:51 Yeah.

1:03:51 And nobody... They tell you, "Oh, marriage is work. Marriage is work," but nobody can explain it to you because every marriage is so different.

1:03:58 Yep.

1:03:59 So it's good to hear that other people are explaining their first three years of marriage-

1:04:05 Yeah

1:04:05 ... and the struggles that they've been through.

1:04:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:04:07 Something we did do on our honeymoon, actually, was read The 5 Love Languages. Have you read that?

1:04:13 Loved that book. I, I-

1:04:14 Are you into it?

1:04:14 I like, I made videos on that book. I was like-

1:04:16 Oh, you did?

1:04:17 I... Yeah, there's like... I've made, like, three videos on that book, and I, I think Gary Chapman's a genius, like, he's beautiful.

1:04:21 What are your love languages?

1:04:22 I believe your love language is, uh, based a lot about how your parents loved you.

1:04:26 Oh, interesting.

1:04:27 So, so my love language-

1:04:28 Like, you want what your parents didn't give you, or you-

1:04:30 W-

1:04:30 ... still want what they gave you?

1:04:32 Both.

1:04:32 Depending on how good or bad their-

1:04:34 Correct.

1:04:34 Got it.

1:04:34 So mine was... And this is how I traced it back. I love my mum. She's amazing. And when my mum was raising me, she sometimes couldn't spend a lot of time with me because she was working, too.

1:04:44 Okay.

1:04:44 But I knew that on my birthday she would always get me the gift that I wanted.

1:04:48 Aw.

1:04:48 She would always get it, no matter what it was, and we didn't grow up with a lot, but she would save up, make sure that I had it, and she would find it, and she'd get it for me. And it would just be one thing, but it would always be the one thing I most wanted. So, like, one year it was, like, Power Rangers or something like that. And I realized that I associated love with gifts.

1:05:03 Oh.

1:05:04 So-

1:05:04 So was that your number-one love language?

1:05:05 That was my number-one love language, was gifts.

1:05:06 And is it giving and getting?

1:05:08 Yes. So I love giving people grand gestures.

1:05:11 Mm-hmm.

1:05:12 And I love receiving grand gestures, but my wife, her number-one love language is quality time.

1:05:17 Oh, f-

1:05:17 Because her family, on their birthdays and stuff, would just-

1:05:20 Time spent

1:05:21 ... yeah, they wouldn't go out to work that day. Her dad would stay home. They would plan an activity or whatever, something like that.

1:05:25 Right.

1:05:26 And so they'd spend time together. So when we met, I was like, "Where's my gift?" [laughs] Like, "Where is it?" It's like, "Do you not love me?" And I would be giving her these grand gestures and gifts on her birthday, and she'd be like, "Oh, I just wanna spend time with you." And, and we-

1:05:37 Okay, I want you to break mine down.

1:05:39 Go on.

1:05:39 I'm acts of service.

1:05:41 Yes.

1:05:41 What does it mean?

1:05:42 That-

1:05:42 [laughs]

1:05:43 Do you like, do you like giving-

1:05:44 No

1:05:44 ... or receiving?

1:05:45 I like getting acts of service. Like, if you-

1:05:46 Okay

1:05:47 ... wanna love me-

1:05:47 Right

1:05:48 ... acts of service.

1:05:49 Well, that's the hardest one to do. [laughs]

1:05:50 Right? [laughs]

1:05:50 That is the hard... Yours was amazing. That is the hardest one.

1:05:54 Oh, he is a talented man.

1:05:55 Yeah, that is amazing.

1:05:56 I mean-

1:05:56 Yeah

1:05:56 ... it's like you vacuum, make the bed.

1:05:59 Yeah.

1:05:59 Do the thing that I asked you one time and it's done. I'm like-

1:06:02 Wow

1:06:02 ... oh.

1:06:02 That is impressive.

1:06:03 Oh, yeah.

1:06:04 Acts of service is one of the hardest ones.

1:06:06 It i-... Oh, so-

1:06:07 Yeah

1:06:07 ... I'm hard to love.

1:06:08 No, you're not.

1:06:08 [laughs] Just kidding.

1:06:09 Yeah, you're hard to love.

1:06:10 I'm just kidding.

1:06:10 No, no, so that's me projecting my bias of how scary I find that of you. [laughs]

1:06:14 [laughs]

1:06:15 That's me going, "Oh, my God, I'm so glad that I, I could never do that. I could never live up to that."

1:06:19 [laughs]

1:06:20 Uh, but no, that's beautiful, and, and that's what I mean, that you are with a partner-

1:06:23 Yeah

1:06:24 ... who understands that, loves that, is able to give that, and, and that's great.

1:06:26 Love languages are very important in relationships.

1:06:29 Huge.

1:06:29 And Justin's is time spent and physical touch.

1:06:32 Okay.

1:06:33 Those are his top two. So I just know-

1:06:35 Yes

1:06:35 ... that, like, I know what he needs-

1:06:36 Exactly

1:06:37 ... and he knows what I need, and I think that anybody who feels like they're not connecting with their partner-

1:06:42 Mm-hmm

1:06:43 ... should read that book.

1:06:44 100%. I love that book. I recommend it to everyone, and I think the biggest thing we should all notice is, until you read that book and until you figure out love languages, you are speaking different languages.

1:06:53 Right.

1:06:53 And so it's like literally speaking to your partner in a language they don't understand.

1:06:57 Right.

1:06:57 And so you could be doing everything. Like, for example, for you, you know, Justin could be buying you, like, the best gifts in the world-

1:07:02 Right

1:07:02 ... and taking you on fancy holidays and all this kinda stuff, but he's not doing acts of service, and you're gonna be like, "Well, now what?"

1:07:07 Doesn't he love me? [laughs]

1:07:08 Yeah, exactly, and he, and he does. Like-

1:07:11 He does

1:07:11 ... you may be with someone... Anyone who's listening or watching this right now, you may have someone who loves you deeply. You've just never articulated what your love language is.

1:07:20 You have to speak up.

1:07:21 You have to share it. You can't... No one can read in between the lines.

1:07:24 Yeah.

1:07:24 You can't expect that person to figure it out by looking at you. You need to tell them, "This is how I feel most loved."

1:07:30 Mm-hmm.

1:07:30 Right? "This is what I need to feel loved."

1:07:32 Mm-hmm.

1:07:32 And I see so many couples that get scared about saying this or doing this, or they're... It's, like, hard for your ego, because being able to have enough vulnerability and openness to say to your wife, "I need you to tell me I've got this."

1:07:45 Mm-hmm.

1:07:45 Right? Like words of affirmation, that I need words of affirmations, and, you know, the ego goes, "Oh, no, I don't really need that from my wife." But you have to share it. If you don't tell them that, how are they gonna know? You gotta put your ego aside and be really open and honest.

1:07:58 Everything you talk about on social media and through your videos is so emotional based.

1:08:03 Mm.

1:08:03 And there's just a lot of, like, that inner work, especially, like, with relationships, but what about the physical aspect of it? Like, physical, like, the intimacy and all of that. Do you ever touch on any of that?

1:08:15 Ah, let me think. I've definitely talked about it from an abuse point of view.

1:08:19 Right.

1:08:19 But you're, you're talking about from a, from the other side.

1:08:21 Well, like, when you're married, sex is important.

1:08:22 Yeah, yeah. Right.

1:08:23 And I think that for me, my understanding is, like, you have to have the emotional first before the sex can stay consistent-

1:08:33 Correct

1:08:33 ... and, and great.

1:08:34 It's so much easier to talk about that or go into that, and that's why I focus so much of my content on the other side.

1:08:40 Right.

1:08:40 And my content is so heavily focused on the compatibility, on the healing, on the deep work, because I'm like, "If people get this right-

1:08:49 Mm

1:08:49 ... they're gonna have amazing relationships, they're gonna have amazing physical..." Like, they... Everything's gonna be great. But when you look at all these magazine covers and you'll always see, like, you know, the seven things she wants in bed, and the three things-

1:08:58 Right

1:08:59 ... and it's always those things. Like, and that's what I love about what I've been able to do with video is that we've shifted the conversation.

1:09:04 Mm-hmm.

1:09:04 The video's getting million, millions and millions of views, but we're talking about stuff that actually is gonna make a difference.

1:09:09 Right.

1:09:09 Whereas you telling someone like, "These are the three things she wants in bed," like, that's not gonna change your relationship if you aren't compatible, if you don't connect, if you don't speak the right love languages, if you're not empathetic, if you're not vulnerable. Like, then that three lists of this and seven lists of that isn't gonna do anything.

1:09:24 It's void.

1:09:24 And, and that's where I'm trying to get to with people, because I don't want people to use sex as a substitute for that, and I don't want people to use sex as an excuse for that, and I don't want people to use sex as a coverup for not having any of that. Because I know, having been in tons of relationships where it was just physical-

1:09:39 Mm-hmm

1:09:39 ... and that's all there was-

1:09:41 Mm

1:09:41 ... that's the only time it felt good.

1:09:44 Mm-hmm.

1:09:44 It didn't feel good at any other time. I didn't go home with a beautiful feeling in my heart. And then when it's only about that, that's also when it can be easily replaced.

1:09:51 Right.

1:09:52 Because that's easily changeable.

1:09:53 Right.

1:09:54 And that's why I think so many people go through, and I talk about in my videos so much about cheating and loyalty. Because when it is just physical, it becomes so much more easier to just disconnect and throw it away.

1:10:03 All those things happen.

1:10:04 Yeah.

1:10:05 And now heartbreak.

1:10:06 Yes.

1:10:06 What's your advice on heartbreak?

1:10:08 Oof. I, I-

1:10:09 I know you have, you have a video up, it's like the five things people should do through heartbreak.

1:10:14 Yes, yeah.

1:10:14 And one of them is, like, get rid of everything from the past and only focus on the present-

1:10:19 Yeah

1:10:19 ... and the future.

1:10:20 Yeah. I like-

1:10:20 That's hard for people

1:10:21 ... I like getting rid of visual triggers. I think the challenge in a lot of our lives is that we're surrounded by the same sounds, the same sights-

1:10:30 Right

1:10:31 ... and the same people that we were in our past. And I see this with anything, and I'm sure you've felt this. When you went deeper into your faith, did your circles change?

1:10:39 100%.

1:10:40 Right. When you went deeper into your faith, did what you look at change?

1:10:43 100%.

1:10:44 Right. So you look at-

1:10:45 My heart changed

1:10:46 ... your heart changed-

1:10:47 Because-

1:10:47 ... but internal and external.

1:10:48 Yes, because for me, when I transformed in my faith, it was a, a transformation of my heart-

1:10:53 Yes

1:10:53 ... not about what I was actually doing or not doing.

1:10:55 Correct. And that's what I feel for anyone. Anyone that I've witnessed and observed go through transformation in their life, their environments have changed. And so for me, a lot of us are making it harder for yourself. It's like saying, "I wanna start working out every day, but I don't own any trainers." Right? It's like, that's not gonna work. It's like doing the opposite of like, "I want to go on a diet, but I'm gonna keep chocolate cake in my refrigerator."

1:11:18 Right.

1:11:18 Right? Like, it's, it's that. So you're saying-

1:11:20 So you're enabling yourself

1:11:21 ... "I wanna get over the past-

1:11:22 Yeah

1:11:22 ... but I'm gonna keep my ex's sweater right next to me, and I'm gonna keep all these text messages that I keep reading through again."

1:11:29 What, why do people go back and read text messages?

1:11:32 Because-

1:11:32 From someone that broke their heart

1:11:34 ... because nostalgia and imagination is more powerful.

1:11:37 [laughs]

1:11:38 Right? The feeling of nostalgia, and this is in studies too, like, the research behind nostalgia is you always think things were better in the past with something like that.

1:11:46 Mm.

1:11:46 So you read a message and you're like, "Oh, but they loved me so much," and now all you're doing is reality's here, and you've got your own version of reality playing here. So you're basically writing your own movie script up here when reality's telling you this. And nostalgia is that script.

1:12:01 It's that fantasy that's never gonna become.

1:12:02 It's that fantasy that isn't real. So it's you saying, "I don't want to accept what is, and I'm trying to accept what if."

1:12:09 Those people who can't get over that, that hump-

1:12:12 Mm-hmm

1:12:12 ... what do you tell them?

1:12:14 Ooh. [laughs] One of the biggest things, like, I-

1:12:16 Do you really wanna know? [laughs]

1:12:17 No, no, no. No, no, no. It's a good, it's a good conversation. I think one of the biggest things I say to people is just, like, let's kind of break the space that they're in.

1:12:26 Mm-hmm.

1:12:26 It's almost like that person needs a space change, and they, they need to get out of that zone. And so for me, I'm always encouraging people to start doing new things.

1:12:34 Mm.

1:12:35 I think it's so powerful when you go and have a new experience.

1:12:37 Yeah.

1:12:38 When you try something new, you join a new class you've never done it before, because guess what? It's about finding yourself again. So you're now learning new things about yourself. You're now falling in love with yourself.

1:12:48 It's about falling in love with yourself.

1:12:50 Correct. And I think that the biggest mistake we make in that time is everyone's telling you, "Oh, when's the rebound?" Like, "Are you gonna date this guy? When are you gonna start dating again?" Or this girl, "When are you gonna be out there again?" And it's almost like, well, no, maybe it's about I go inside this time and spend some time with myself. And I think new experiences are a beautiful way of doing that, because you only learn new things about yourself when you do new things with yourself, right?

1:13:13 Ooh, preach.

1:13:13 Like, you never, like, we never do new things with ourselves.

1:13:16 Mm-mm.

1:13:17 You're always, you're always doing the same things with the same people. But imagine you start doing new things on your own, and now you have new memories. And one of the things I've been talking about a lot with people is forming new memories. If you don't make new memories, the old ones will always hold you back.

1:13:31 Mm.

1:13:32 And that's why we're stuck in the old, because we're not making any new ones.

1:13:35 Mm.

1:13:35 So the new... The old ones just keep pulling you back. So the best way to make new memories is, A, set up an experience, do it with a friend that you love. And when you go out there, it's this technique that's often used for grounding in therapy and everything, but I use it for presence, and that's how we were trained in it as monks. When you go somewhere and you're like, "I wanna take a mental picture of this." How many times have you ever said that, where you go somewhere and you're like, "I wanna-

1:13:54 Yeah

1:13:54 ... have this in my mind and I wanna keep it forever."

1:13:56 And the iPhone camera is not going to capture it.

1:13:58 And the, and the camera's not gonna do it. It's not gonna keep it emotionally. And I think we're so bad at- Creating emotional memories that are new. So the best way to do it is called 54321.

Speaker 1:14:07 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:08 So when you're in a space, and let's say I wanna do it of this, I look at five things that I can see. So five things that I can see right now.

Speaker 1:14:14 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:15 So I'm gonna say you-

Speaker 1:14:16 Okay

Jay Shetty 1:14:16 ... obviously.

Speaker 1:14:17 Yep

Jay Shetty 1:14:17 ... important part of the memory.

Speaker 1:14:18 You're important too.

Jay Shetty 1:14:19 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:19 I'm doing it, I'm doing it with you.

Jay Shetty 1:14:20 Yeah. I'm gonna say the rug.

Speaker 1:14:22 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:22 So I'm going for space.

Speaker 1:14:23 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:23 I'm gonna look at a ceiling. So one, two, three, four. I'm gonna say the couch.

Speaker 1:14:27 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:27 So they're five things that I can see. The second thing is four things that you can touch.

Speaker 1:14:32 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:14:32 So four things I can touch. So-

Speaker 1:14:34 My silky dress.

Jay Shetty 1:14:35 Your sil-

Speaker 1:14:35 My really dry skin.

Jay Shetty 1:14:37 You're good at descriptions

Speaker 1:14:38 My-

Jay Shetty 1:14:39 Silky dress, dry skin. This is good

Speaker 1:14:40 ... the rough-

Jay Shetty 1:14:40 Textured rough

Speaker 1:14:41 ... the textured, yes.

Jay Shetty 1:14:42 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:42 And, oh, my glass.

Jay Shetty 1:14:43 Ooh, yeah. Perfect.

Speaker 1:14:44 Glass of water.

Jay Shetty 1:14:45 Four things. Amazing. Three things that you can hear.

Speaker 1:14:49 I can hear the light.

Jay Shetty 1:14:50 Yes.

Speaker 1:14:51 I can hear myself swallow, and I can hear your voice.

Jay Shetty 1:14:53 Perfect. And then two things that you can smell.

Speaker 1:14:57 I can smell my garlic breath. [laughs] Um, I'm having a hard time smelling basically anything because I'm seven months pregnant.

Jay Shetty 1:15:06 Sure.

Speaker 1:15:06 But you can hear how clogged I am.

Jay Shetty 1:15:09 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1:15:10 But maybe my perfume.

Jay Shetty 1:15:11 Okay.

Speaker 1:15:11 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:15:12 Great. And then one thing-

Speaker 1:15:12 It's all about me.

Jay Shetty 1:15:13 Yeah. No, that's g- And then one thing you can taste.

Speaker 1:15:16 Garlic.

Jay Shetty 1:15:16 Great. So, so if you did that in an experience that you wanna-

Speaker 1:15:20 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:15:21 [laughs] ... tell about to forever, all you have to do to, to make a mental pic- to take a mental picture of everything is do 54321.

Speaker 1:15:26 54321.

Jay Shetty 1:15:27 Five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste.

Speaker 1:15:34 I really like that.

Jay Shetty 1:15:35 Yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1:15:36 54321.

Jay Shetty 1:15:36 And so, and this is what I mean by when you're going through a breakup, the biggest mistake you make is the old memories hold you back because you don't know how to make new memories.

Speaker 1:15:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:15:43 And so my, my advice to everyone is go and make new memories. The first time I actually met Radhi was before I became a monk, and I met her very briefly. I thought she was beautiful and, and, and attractive, but I didn't really think-

Speaker 1:15:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:15:59 ... anything of it. Like, I just, I genuinely just was so focused on what I was doing at life at that time, and I was so spiritually inclined and spiritually focused that I, I literally didn't think anything of it.

Speaker 1:16:12 Yeah, and my mom introduced me to you.

Jay Shetty 1:16:14 Yes.

Speaker 1:16:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:15 So I should tell that story.

Speaker 1:16:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:16 So actually, I met Radhi's mom even before I met her.

Speaker 1:16:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:21 And so I was training to become a monk, and I met Radhi's mom, and I was asked to show her how to do a particular, uh, service at the temple. So I had to take her around, et cetera. Now, the incredible thing about this is that that is the only time-

Speaker 1:16:40 You ever asked

Jay Shetty 1:16:41 ... while I was there that I was ever asked to show-

Speaker 1:16:45 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:16:45 ... another person how to do this service. So the one day that I had to show-

Speaker 1:16:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:16:49 ... someone how to do this particular service, this voluntary service at the temple-

Speaker 1:16:54 It was my momma

Jay Shetty 1:16:54 ... was the one day that her mom turned up. And at that time, I didn't know she had a daughter. I didn't know anything about this lady. I was like, "Oh, she's around my mom's age."

Speaker 1:17:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:17:02 And, and she was, she was wonderful and, and we got along, but I was just showing her what to do, and then literally didn't speak to her.

Speaker 1:17:08 No. And then my mom wanted me to get more involved in, um... And I really wanted to get more involved in, um, like the spiritual side of my life. And so she met him and wanted me to, um, get introduced to the youth community there. And so she passed on my number to you, but you passed it on to your sister.

Jay Shetty 1:17:27 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:17:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:17:28 Yeah, so I passed it on to my sister. I was like, "No, I need to stay focused, do my thing." And my sister's very spiritually inclined too. Big shout-out to Amy.

Speaker 1:17:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:17:36 And, and then, yeah, and then you guys got connected and you became friends.

Speaker 1:17:40 Yeah. And actually, at that point, my mom had said to me, "Oh, you know, I met this really nice, um, really nice guy at the temple." And she was like, to me, "Oh, after I met him, I prayed," and I was like, "I hope my daughter meets somebody like this. I know he's gonna be a monk, but I hope she meets someone that's like this, 'cause he seems really nice." Um, little did he know what was gonna happen. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:17:56 I know.

Speaker 1:17:58 And then, um, then what happened? He became a monk.

Jay Shetty 1:18:02 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:18:02 I heard you speak. Oh, I heard him speak all the time because he used to do lots of, um, youth programs or university talks. And so-

Jay Shetty 1:18:11 Sessions on philosophy, meditation

Speaker 1:18:13 ... yeah, philosophy, meditation. And I was just like, "Oh, my gosh, he's such an incredible speaker," and the way that he, um, makes such incredible wisdom so relevant to us who were, like, young teenagers or... Yeah, yeah, not young teenagers anymore.

Jay Shetty 1:18:27 You weren't a teenager.

Speaker 1:18:27 I was a teenager. I was still a teenager.

Jay Shetty 1:18:29 No, you weren't.

Speaker 1:18:29 Wasn't I 18?

Jay Shetty 1:18:30 No, you weren't.

Speaker 1:18:30 No, I-

Jay Shetty 1:18:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:18:32 How old was I?

Jay Shetty 1:18:32 One thing you're gonna realize throughout this whole interview-

Speaker 1:18:34 Yeah, I'm so bad at time

Jay Shetty 1:18:35 ... is that I'm the one who remembers all the dates.

Speaker 1:18:37 I'm like-

Jay Shetty 1:18:37 I'm the one who remembers everything

Speaker 1:18:38 ... yeah, I don't remember anything. I barely remember things that happened, like, two years ago. Um, so no, I wasn't a teenager. I was out of university, which feels like a long time ago. So I was in my 20s. And, uh, yeah, I saw him speak, and I just thought it was so incredible how he was able to articulate such, yeah, such deep wisdom in a way that was so relevant to people who were so young and, and probably wouldn't have been so interested in reading a book about it. Um, and so I was in awe of him. And he also looked really cool. He had, like, a bald head. He didn't look like the type of person who was gonna be speaking about these things. He had, like, tattoos and a bald head, but then he was in robes. And I was like, "This is really, really cool but weird at the same time." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:18 [laughs] You're so strange.

Speaker 1:19:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:21 And, and then it was... Then when I left being a monk, which is a whole story in itself, we can talk about that another day. When I, when I left being a monk, her and my sister were really, really close.

Speaker 1:19:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:19:32 And me and my sister are really, really close. I trust my sister. She's one of my best friends. And-

Speaker 1:19:37 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:38 ... I sat down with her one day and she said, "Well, you know what? Radhi likes someone." And, and I was just like, "Oh, who?" And I was thinking she was gonna say some other person's name.

Speaker 1:19:46 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:19:47 And she's like, "She really likes you." And I was like, "Oh, I, I really like her. Like, I'd love to get to know her better." And we'd, we'd interacted. We'd had-

Speaker 1:19:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:19:54 ... we'd got to know each other a bit better because we'd organized charity events together, et cetera.

Speaker 1:19:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:19:59 And so I'd seen her not in- [gentle music] the role of being a girlfriend obviously, or someone that I was dating. I'd seen her interact with other people-

Speaker 1:20:09 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:20:09 ... other, other humans, uh, inside a project management organization, organizing events. So I'd seen her personality and like observed how she behaved around certain people, how she had talked to people, how she interacted with people. And, and based on all those things, I, I thought she was a great person. So when my sister told me that, I was, I was secretly quite happy as well.

Speaker 1:20:30 And I always heard about him through his sister, and his sister would talk about him with so much love and affection, and he treats her like she's his baby. No matter how old she gets, she's literally like his baby. And I used to see like conversations between them. I used to be like, "Oh my gosh, he's so sweet." Like, he's so sweet, even though he's, yeah, he's gone off being a monk. But he was still really, really caring and loving towards, towards his sister and his family. And then, yeah, I told her that I liked him before, before, uh, he knew about it, or before you'd probably even thought about it.

Jay Shetty 1:20:59 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:21:00 So then, so then that was it really. That's how we met. We almost met before I became a monk. Barely-

Speaker 1:21:06 But yeah, no, we had conversations

Jay Shetty 1:21:07 ... barely connected, et cetera. Yeah, never had conversations-

Speaker 1:21:09 Yeah, never had conversations

Jay Shetty 1:21:09 ... never spoke, but, but had just seen each other in our own elements.

Speaker 1:21:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:21:14 And then when I left, left being a monk, uh, you know, later that year, we, we started going out.

Speaker 1:21:21 We did.

Jay Shetty 1:21:21 And so that was around the, towards the end of 2013.

Speaker 1:21:25 And then it just went really fast.

Jay Shetty 1:21:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:27 We both, we both kind of, as soon as we spoke about it, we both knew that we wanted to be with each other, and we were really certain about it. And it could have gone really wrong-

Jay Shetty 1:21:35 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:36 ... but we were like, [laughs] we could have both been really crazy. Um, but it ended up just working out. We both really had kind of understood each other just by observing one another, I guess. And, um, there were a few surprises I'm sure. But, um- [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:21:48 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:48 ... we, yeah, we got along straight away, and we were both pretty much went from, "Yeah, I really like you," to, "Yeah, I love you," in like a day.

Jay Shetty 1:21:54 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:54 And then it was like, "Yeah, we wanna get married," in like a week.

Jay Shetty 1:21:57 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:57 Um, as in we didn't get married in a week, but we wanted to, we said we wanted to get married eventually in a week after that. Um, and then we ended up spending a lot of time at each other's homes, right? Um, he was spending a lot of time at my house for ages. Um, I mean, that's pretty much where I took him to have all of our dates because [laughs] I loved being around my family, and I was like, best of both worlds. I can be around the person that I wanna spend the rest of my life with, and the people that I've spent most of my life with. Um, and so yeah, most of our dates would, would involve my parents-

Jay Shetty 1:22:26 [laughs]

Speaker 1:22:26 ... um, and my sister and my brother-in-law a lot of the time. And so we got to know each other kind of in our own environments as well really fast, which I think helped us fast-forward a lot easier.

Jay Shetty 1:22:38 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:22:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:22:38 And, and I remember that my sister gave me like an action plan. She's like, "This is what you're gonna get along on. This is-

Speaker 1:22:44 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:22:44 ... what you're gonna struggle with."

Speaker 1:22:45 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:22:45 "And these are gonna be your challenges." And, and, and I definitely owe it to her to bring us together.

Speaker 1:22:50 Yeah, I completely agree.

Jay Shetty 1:22:50 Like, I think she was a huge part of-

Speaker 1:22:51 She was

Jay Shetty 1:22:52 ... us being together, my sister definitely. And, and she was like, sh- because she knows me so well, and I feel she got to know you well as well-

Speaker 1:22:58 Definitely

Jay Shetty 1:22:58 ... she was just like, "This is what you guys are gonna agree on. This is-

Speaker 1:23:01 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:23:01 ... what you're not gonna agree on. This" ... Yeah, and it was just, it was so nice to have that-

Speaker 1:23:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:23:05 ... because you could go into a relationship having more understanding of the other person.

Speaker 1:23:10 Can I just say, one of the things she said that we wouldn't get along on is Bollywood, because I loved Bollywood songs and films at the time, but y- you like a good Bollywood song-

Jay Shetty 1:23:18 Questionable

Speaker 1:23:18 ... once in a while. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:23:19 Questionable. Yeah, questionable. But, no, I, I decided to get over that.

Speaker 1:23:23 But yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:23:23 Like, and, and you, you barely... Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:25 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:23:25 You could have gone over it.

Speaker 1:23:26 Still, still have a love for it. Still have a love.

Jay Shetty 1:23:27 Yeah. But yeah, we spent a lot of it, time in each other's parents' homes and with our families-

Speaker 1:23:32 We did, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:23:32 ... which was great because you had to be yourself. I used to love what your mom used to tell you [laughs] when I used to come over.

Speaker 1:23:35 My mom was so funny. So obviously, like it was a person to her that was, you know, we were dating. And so usually you would put in a lot of effort in the way that you dress and, uh, doing your hair when y- the person you're dating comes over. But, um, yeah, I would literally be in the same clothes that I was wearing like the whole day, which was pretty much like pajama bottoms and, and a really scruffy top. And my mom would be like, "Do you not wanna maybe-"

Jay Shetty 1:24:00 [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:00 "... you know, put a different top on, or you don't wanna change your trousers?" I was like, "No, Mom, if he can't love me in what I'm wearing right now, which is what he's probably gonna see me in for the rest of his life, then it's just not meant to be. Okay? We are [laughs] like, he has to love me for..." And she'd be like, "Okay, but you could try, you know, a little bit." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:16 [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:16 I was like, "No." And it worked, so. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:18 Yeah. [laughs] And she's so beautiful and cute. Like, even when she's dressed all hobo chic, I'm just like, "I love it," you know?

Speaker 1:24:24 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:25 And, and it's quite nice actually. Like I've, I've, I genuinely believe this, like I've, I've rarely see her with makeup on. [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:31 Yes, true.

Jay Shetty 1:24:31 And so like, it's, it's fun when you, when you fall in love with someone rec- based on who they are and their personality and their energy and-

Speaker 1:24:37 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:24:38 ... all of that beauty shines through. So yeah, I love it. So that leads us nicely on to the next point-

Speaker 1:24:43 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:24:43 ... that our friends wanted to discuss, which is, what's the key to starting off a relationship well?

Speaker 1:24:49 What's the key to starting-

Jay Shetty 1:24:50 Like what's the key to starting it off well?

Speaker 1:24:52 ... a relationship well?

Jay Shetty 1:24:52 So one thing for me was, was this, that because we didn't see each other in dating environments-

Speaker 1:24:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:24:59 ... a lot, I feel like dating environments put this pressure of being in an interview.

Speaker 1:25:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:25:04 So I compared dates to interviews. It's almost like you have to put your best foot forward, you wear your best clothes, you try and say all the best things. And even if it's not the best, actually, it's us trying to be right, and that's what we do in interviews. When you go and interview for a job, it's like you wanna be the right fit.

Speaker 1:25:20 For that person.

Jay Shetty 1:25:20 Yeah.

Speaker 1:25:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:25:21 And that's what happens in a dating scenario, like you're sitting opposite a desk, just like you do in an interview.

Speaker 1:25:25 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:25:25 And then someone's asking you a question and you're like, "Okay, well, what do I have to say to make them like me, or to say the right thing?" Whereas we didn't really get to do that.

Speaker 1:25:32 No. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:25:32 And I'm not saying that that was a conscious choice, but now when I look back at it and I reflect on it and introspect on it, I'm like, we didn't really get an opportunity-

Speaker 1:25:41 No

Jay Shetty 1:25:41 ... to date in that sense. And that means that I got exposed to the real her, either by seeing her in a charity organization, seeing her in a real-life scenario, how does she treat normal people, and then how she is with her family. And I'm like, "That's the best view you can get of someone." And so when I look at that in terms of giving advice or tips or whatever, my recommendation is be around people that you're thinking about being with in an environment where they're just being themselves.

Speaker 1:26:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:26:10 Because chances are, if you like them the way they are when they are with other people, then you're likely to love them when they're with you too. And so often we only see people- That we are considering being romantic with or dating, et cetera, we only see them in dates and dinners and movie nights and whatever it is, right?

Speaker 1:26:26 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. I feel like you see, and also seeing people with the people that they're closest to, because you can't really fake it with the people that you're closest to.

Jay Shetty 1:26:36 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:26:36 I mean, and if you can, you can do it for a really short period of time, and you also end up seeing them being probably at their worst and at their best, because you can be the most loving to your family, but you can also be the worst person towards your family, because they're the ones that accept it. And so, yeah, I feel like you get a good image of who the person is through, through interacting with them that way.

Jay Shetty 1:26:53 Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1:26:54 Yeah. Good point.

Jay Shetty 1:26:55 Thanks.

Speaker 1:26:56 Nicely said. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:26:57 [laughs] It's true. Yeah. And, and, and the other thing is, I... So when we first got together, I'd left being a monk probably like seven months before, so it'd been like a seven-month gap, and I didn't have a job.

Speaker 1:27:09 Mm-mm.

Jay Shetty 1:27:10 I had-

Speaker 1:27:10 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:27:10 ... I had no job. I had no money.

Speaker 1:27:13 Nope. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:27:13 I was getting rejected left, right, and center from every single place that I was applying to, because I'd been a monk for three years, and no one wanted to hire someone who had monk written on their resume.

Speaker 1:27:24 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:27:25 Like, no one's like, "Oh, yeah, we love your transferable skills."

Speaker 1:27:27 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:27:27 Like, you know, like, what do you know? And so, "Oh, you can meditate for four hours. Great. We need that in our organization."

Speaker 1:27:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:27:33 So it was just, there was no... I had nothing really.

Speaker 1:27:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:27:37 And that's a great way to start [laughs] dating someone, because there's very... I remember I used to save up, so I used to like try and work part-time.

Speaker 1:27:45 Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:27:46 And I was doing everything I could-

Speaker 1:27:47 You were tutoring

Jay Shetty 1:27:48 ... I was tutoring.

Speaker 1:27:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:27:49 So I would like, I would be tutoring young people for their exams or university exams, et cetera, and I'd, I'd be making like, you know, 15 pounds an hour or whatever it was. And I remember I'd save up so I could take her out on a date at the end-

Speaker 1:28:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:28:00 ... of the month, and so that we could do something fun. And, and I loved the fact, I loved that because I met her at a time when, when I had nothing, and she accepted me for it.

Speaker 1:28:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:28:12 And I love her for that, and also, her, her parents were always really cool about it. So sometimes that can be a big pressure from parents and expectations, but her parents were really cool about it. They never made me feel uncomfortable about it or anything, and my parents obviously were very comfortable with me. They were just like, "Follow your heart. Do what's right for you." Very, very encouraging. And I'm, I'm not, I don't come from a well-off background at all or anything, so it's not that I had a backup plan, but my parents were still very, very encouraging and supportive.

Speaker 1:28:40 Mm. Yeah, I, I, I, that was never, uh, in my mind, to be honest. I was, I knew I wanted to be with you, and so I was like, to my mom, "Even if we end up living in a really tiny house just by like near the temple that I used to go to, and just I know that I wanna spend my life with him, so whatever it ends up being." And you were really, really, um, enthusiastic, and you had so much purpose. And even from the beginning, like, you were so driven to do whatever you wanted to do. I didn't know what that was at the time. Um, but at, you were so driven that I just knew whatever it was, whatever we were meant to be was what was gonna happen. And so, and I knew you would never, you would always like gonna be there to take care of me, and I felt that from the beginning. Like, I always felt supported. You wanna hold hands? Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:29:20 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:20 I'm not good at PDA.

Jay Shetty 1:29:21 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:22 So I'm gonna not do that.

Jay Shetty 1:29:23 Oh, my God. Did you get rejected on camera?

Speaker 1:29:25 There you go.

Jay Shetty 1:29:25 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:27 Um, yeah, so that was [laughs] it was, it was really nice, and I feel like he had a lot of the qualities that I always felt... I would always grow up saying, "Oh, I really want a husband that was like my dad." Like, I love my dad, and he was always someone that I felt very protected and supported by. And so I d- definitely, now looking back at it, I felt those qualities in him as I got to know him, and so I thought, yeah, that was, that was nice. And my parents, yeah, my parents, my parents didn't care either. I always thought it would be, you know, you always think in Indian families that's gonna be an issue, but they loved him from the start. He's got really good... I don't know whether you guys have noticed, but he's got a really good way of saying things and, and winning people over by his words. So, um-

Jay Shetty 1:30:03 It's real though.

Speaker 1:30:04 I know. That's why it's genuine, and it's sweet. So from those interactions, I think my parents trusted him very easily as well. Um-

Jay Shetty 1:30:10 Yeah. I really get along with your parents.

Speaker 1:30:11 I know. Yeah, and it was so great for me because Amy was already like my sister, and me and your mom got along straight away 'cause we bonded over food. And so, yeah, it was really easy for us both to, to join into each family.

Jay Shetty 1:30:24 But yeah, another thing I think that's really important at the start of a relationship is self-awareness and setting expectations. So I feel that having done the work as a monk and having been through that experience myself, I'd gained so much self-awareness. So I was really aware of what type of partner I needed in my life. I was really aware of what I needed in my life to flourish, to thrive. And so when I met someone, it was very easy for me, it was very easy and simple for me to communicate my expectations to her and be like... I, I, I remember one of the things I said and-

Speaker 1:30:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:30:59 ... and this is not offensive at all. It's, it's genuinely how I felt at the time. And I said that, "If you want a husband who goes to IKEA on the weekends and, and to the cinema, like, I'm not that guy." And I didn't mean that as a bad thing if anyone is that. What I meant that as is I wanna be someone who lives a life of purpose, and I want my life to be about service, and I want my life to have an impact on people's lives, and I need a partner that's gonna understand that, embrace that, and roll with that as well, and wants to live not a normal life, because that wasn't gonna work for me if I really wanted to have an impact, if I really wanted to make a difference, if I really wanted to serve. And so that wasn't an ego thing. It wasn't me thinking I'm, I'm better or above or special. It was me saying, "This is a priority for me."

Speaker 1:31:43 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:31:43 "And I don't need it to be your priority, but I need you to understand it to be mine." And I think this is really important that we should feel that if we're genuinely committed to something, when you make someone aware, and same back from her side too, like when she, and she'll share hers, but when she's made me aware of what her priorities are and what's important to her-

Speaker 1:32:03 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:32:03 ... you start respecting what's important to the other person rather than expecting them to trade theirs, right? And that's usually what happens in relationships in the beginning, is instead of showing respect for the other people's passion, you expect them to change their passion for yours-

Speaker 1:32:18 Mm

Jay Shetty 1:32:18 ... or compromise and be excited about your stuff, and, and I don't think that that's the right way. I think it's us being clear about ourselves, communicating that, and then respecting what the other person communicates. And I think-

Speaker 1:32:29 And I think we discussed that really early on actually.

Jay Shetty 1:32:32 Yeah. For sure.

Speaker 1:32:32 And just to be clear, he has come to IKEA with me on the weekends. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:32:35 [laughs] And movies too.

Speaker 1:32:36 Yeah, and movies too. Um, but yeah, no, I, I understood the, the point of it. And I remember at that time when he was really pushing for what he wanted to do, um, he was very, very busy, and so there were certain things, I mean, he spent a lot of time with me and my family. But we had just agreed that, look, if there was extended things that I had to go to, because with families, there's always other things that you have to go to, like family, friends, or relatives' houses for every event possible. And if that happened, then I knew that I was okay with him not coming to them, and I said that to him from the beginning, that-

Jay Shetty 1:33:07 You're amazing as well for that

Speaker 1:33:08 ... if you need to go and do something which is, I know for you, more important, not because, for, for the purpose that you want to live, then I totally understand that comes above you just coming to another party which people are not probably gonna remember. Like, it's, it's okay. Um, and I think that was really, actually really important for us because you can always hear what other people say, like family members or friends or whatever will always have a different opinion. And so as long as you feel like you have, um, discussed it and you really understand that person's point of view, then you don't feel kind of, it doesn't rub off on you when people say things because you understand it deeply. Whereas if you don't, then I think it's really easy to get swayed by other people's view of life or other people's way of relationships or whatever it is. Like, you can get, that can rub off on you very easily. But if you really understand that person and why they're doing it, I think that can make a big difference to you supporting them in why then, why they're doing it.

Jay Shetty 1:34:04 Thank you. Thank you so much for watching that video. If you enjoyed it, here's another one I think you'll love.

Guest 1:34:11 Instead of criticizing the other person, tell them what you want, and tell them what you don't without implying that they're not doing it