This Man Discovered How To REVERSE AGING & Make Himself 31 Years Younger (Data-Proven) @BryanJohnson

1. 0:00 – 2:31

   Intro

   1. JSJay Shetty0:00

      Are you scared of dying?

   2. BJBryan Johnson0:01

      No. Yet that doesn't stop us from speaking with unbridled confidence on what will be. And to me, it really shows that we humans, we don't want to die.

   3. JSJay Shetty0:14

      He has spent millions of his own dollars to never die.

   4. BJBryan Johnson0:17

      Maybe even cracked the code that limits the human lifespan.

   5. SPSpeaker0:21

      The king of longevity, Bryan Johnson.

   6. JSJay Shetty0:24

      What drives someone to spend $2 million to not die?

   7. BJBryan Johnson0:29

      Let's just say we fast-forward a few hundred years. That's when humans figured out they were transitioning from die to don't die. One night of bad sleep reduces your NK cells by 70%. Your NK cells are what's killing cancer cells.

   8. JSJay Shetty0:44

      I'd never heard that before.

   9. BJBryan Johnson0:45

      My grandfather was full of lead, my parents are full of asbestos, and now I'm full of microplastic. We think they're causing very serious health problems and may be worse than we think. I had this general idea that there must be some system in place in America, they're like watching out for us. Not true.

   10. JSJay Shetty1:00

       What age are you predicting to live to? [gentle music] The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

   11. SPSpeaker1:10

       Jay Shetty.

   12. JSJay Shetty1:11

       The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] What drives someone to spend $2 million to not die?

   13. BJBryan Johnson1:20

       I think it's very confusing to a lot of people. I think when you read the headlines and you view, I'm just unintelligible by most people. And I think if you look back, you know, let's just say we fast-forward a few hundred years, and you live in the 25th century, and you're reading the history books of this time and place, I think it'd be pretty obvious to them. They would say like, "Oh, of course, that's when humans figured out they were transitioning from die to don't die." Like, that's the big thing. Like, they had the technological and medical progress to say they could now begin extending their lifespans to some unknown degree. So I think it really just we're on this inevitable trajectory towards, like, radically extending how long and how well we can live, and I'm really the forerunner in trying to start that process.

   14. JSJay Shetty2:03

       And how did you compute the amount of two million? How did it get to that? Like, what does that involve and include to get to that level?

   15. BJBryan Johnson2:11

       So the two million is primarily spent on the research and the measurement. And so the actual, what I do day to day is very low cost. I'd say the majority of people can afford it. Most things are actually free. So a lot of people see the, the $2 million headline, and they think, "Oh, this can't be achievable or reachable for me," but it actually is. And so what we did that was

2. 2:31 – 4:19

   How Long Can a Person Live?

   1. BJBryan Johnson2:31

      unique is when you're trying to do something to improve your health and wellness, it's important you can verify it does or doesn't work. Like, if you hear a story about, you know, doing, like, drinking this kind of drink is good for your health, it's a story until you can measure it and say it has this kind of change in the body and either change... It increases your biological age or lowers it or does something else. And so I became the most measured person in history, and that's really expensive. So the really, the expensive portions have been measuring every organ in my body. The actual protocols are really low cost.

   2. JSJay Shetty3:02

      Hmm. What was the most expensive thing to measure?

   3. BJBryan Johnson3:05

      Uh, it really is in chasing the cumulative measurement across the entire body. For example, like I'm, I'm the most... I've spent more time in an MRI than anyone in the world. Uh, I think I, uh, this new technology called DNA methylation, you're looking at these patterns in the body. I'm the most measured person with that DNA methylation in the world. And so, like, uh, doing this consistently, routinely, I, we do thousands of data points a week.

   4. JSJay Shetty3:29

      Hmm.

   5. BJBryan Johnson3:29

      And so I think it's just all these things adding up. It's just expensive to do the test, analyze the data, continually have that process. We need a, like, a large team to do it.

   6. JSJay Shetty3:38

      Yeah. Do any of the measurement tools have adverse effects on health?

   7. BJBryan Johnson3:41

      Yeah, MRI we think is very safe.

   8. JSJay Shetty3:43

      Okay.

   9. BJBryan Johnson3:43

      Yeah, but CT I've only did once. I just did a, uh, a calcium score. And then, um, you know, we do blood draws. Like, I've done a ton of blood work. We did ultrasound on my veins a while back and to see if we had scar tissue that had been building up, 'cause I've done so much blood draw. We couldn't find any scar tissue.

   10. JSJay Shetty3:58

       Mm-hmm.

   11. BJBryan Johnson3:58

       So we do actively measure for negative repercussions of are we measuring too much to the extent of damage. So, like, we're even measuring, measuring the measurement. So in every way we can possibly interrogate the body, we, we're trying to acquire data.

   12. JSJay Shetty4:11

       And how did you pick the areas to measure? Like, how were you able to say, "These are the five, eight," I don't know how many there are, "metrics

3. 4:19 – 6:34

   The Most Measured Person

   1. JSJay Shetty4:19

      that I believe are the most important to longevity"? How do we even know what are the things to focus on?

   2. BJBryan Johnson4:24

      We looked at every organ. So if you, if you, we have roughly 70 plus organs, depending on how you count. And so you can say, like, I'm chronologically 47 years old, but that's not really a useful number. It's like a general approximation. Then if you measure the heart, you can say, "Okay, what is the biological age of the heart?" And you can then dissect that and say, "What is the structural age of the heart? And then what is the functional age of the heart?" Like, you can look at the functional age of, like, what is the max heart rate? You know, you can take 220 minus your age roughly for a rough calculation. Then you look at the, the valves, and you look at all the, the cell types. And so you can break each organ down into a different ways to understand what is its biological age. So for example, like my heart is 37, my left ear is 64, my diaphragm is age 18. And so you can, any part of the body, any organ or biological process, you can assign an age score, uh, if you've got data to show, data to make that comparison.

   3. JSJay Shetty5:17

      Your left ear is 64.

   4. BJBryan Johnson5:18

      Yeah.

   5. JSJay Shetty5:19

      Walk me through that.

   6. BJBryan Johnson5:20

      Uh, I shot a lot of guns as a kid, and so I would, you know, aim the gun like this with this left ear exposed to sound. This, this ear was more protected. And then also loud music.

   7. JSJay Shetty5:30

      Wow.

   8. BJBryan Johnson5:30

      And so yeah, so this is the thing is like now when I'm at social events, I have this app on my phone, Decibel, where like last night I was at a social event and, uh, the room was 105 decibels. So anything over 80 can cause hearing damage. So just in a social environment with people talking at a, in a voice that's like loud enough for the other person to hear, you've got sustained ear dam- ear hearing damage.

   9. JSJay Shetty5:54

      Yeah, interesting. I think it's something we don't realize. I saw my mom lose her hearing in one ear-

   10. BJBryan Johnson6:00

       Yeah

   11. JSJay Shetty6:00

       ... and the other one pretty weak.

   12. BJBryan Johnson6:02

       Yeah.

   13. JSJay Shetty6:02

       And it's been really sad to watch because it's completely changed her personality.

   14. BJBryan Johnson6:07

       Exactly.

   15. JSJay Shetty6:07

       And it's completely changed her ability to connect in a conversation. She's super fun, she's bubbly-

   16. BJBryan Johnson6:13

       Yeah

   17. JSJay Shetty6:13

       ... conversating, but as soon as she started losing her hearing and s- the hearing aid technology's definitely not caught up with any of the technology you're talking about. We got her the best ones that, that I possibly could know about, and it's still so hard for her to engage. And it's such an underrated part of human life. Like, you don't think losing your hearing may be that impactful. It's, it's huge.

4. 6:34 – 9:57

   Getting Sustained Hearing Impairment

   1. BJBryan Johnson6:34

      Entirely true. And we've, we've tried for the past few years... So we take all these measurements and we say, like, "What is the biological age of blank organ?" And then we say, "All right, now we've reviewed all the scientific literature that's out there. How do you either slow down that speed of aging or reverse aging damage?" So for example, with my left ear, we've said, "Can you take my left ear from age 64 to age 63, and 62, and, like, all the way down to, like, age 18?" And so in that case, we've had no success with hearing. There are a few stem cell therapies that are in research, but no effective treatment. So we've had no success at all. So once you lose it, right now it's gone. Whereas other parts of my body, like my speed of aging and my heart and my lungs, we've had great success lowering that biological age if you look at it anatomically or functionally. And so some things we've had great success, but this is the point where when people look at me and they say, you know, "The guy is so busy trying not to die, he's forgetting how to live." And the flip side of that is when you u- lose function, movement, eyesight, hearing, right? Your life begins to deteriorate to degrees like your mother saw in ways you can't even imagine. And so it really is like this respect for our conscious existence and our biological capabilities. And so really I think that's what I'm trying to do, is I think the, the new virtue is caring for our conscious existence and not being whimsical and throwing it away with behaviors that just are not necessary.

   2. JSJay Shetty7:58

      Yeah. It's so funny, isn't it? It, it's really is interesting how we judge intentionality.

   3. BJBryan Johnson8:03

      Yeah.

   4. JSJay Shetty8:04

      And you only recognize how intentional you wish you were when you lose something, and it's like that, the... I think there's that famous quote that says, "The best time to plant a tree was, like, 100 years ago"

   5. BJBryan Johnson8:18

      That's right

   6. JSJay Shetty8:18

      ... but otherwise it's today. Like, the, like, the idea of, like, you're just never gonna... You will always feel you wish you started earlier.

   7. BJBryan Johnson8:25

      Yes.

   8. JSJay Shetty8:26

      Always.

   9. BJBryan Johnson8:26

      Yes.

   10. JSJay Shetty8:27

       But that only hits you when sadly something really bad goes hap-

   11. BJBryan Johnson8:31

       Yeah

   12. JSJay Shetty8:31

       ... bad happens and then you're like, "Gosh, I wish I thought about this when I was-

   13. BJBryan Johnson8:34

       Yeah

   14. JSJay Shetty8:34

       ... 25-

   15. BJBryan Johnson8:35

       Yeah

   16. JSJay Shetty8:35

       ... 20, et cetera."

   17. BJBryan Johnson8:36

       Yes. Yeah.

   18. JSJay Shetty8:36

       And, and yeah, so I mean, when I, when I'm thinking about what you're saying, what... Is there an age or damage level from which you, there is no return?

   19. BJBryan Johnson8:46

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty8:46

       What parts of the body? Is there a specific age where you're like, "If you're this chronological age and your, your biological age of this body part is this, it's over"?

   21. BJBryan Johnson8:55

       I guess the, this is, I think, the coolest question, uh, right now, is that in previous time periods you were born and then you died in predictable fashion. There was nothing you could do to stop the process. And so now what's different is that we are making progress on age-related decline even before a baby's conceived. So now there's embryo selection, right? So it's don't die is happening before conception, and then recent studies have shown that you can take a m- a mouse in its, like, last week of life and regenerate it and double the lifespan of that mouse. And so we have technologies that can extend life before conception, midlife, and even at the end of life. And so now that's why I'm saying this is really, it's full spectrum, that there is no point of no return at this, at this moment. I mean, in this moment, yes, but, like, increasingly it's becoming this open question, is there? And I think that's the most interesting and exciting thing. And my dad is 71. I think most of his friends are just like, "We're getting close.

5. 9:57 – 11:18

   Extending Life Before Conception

   1. BJBryan Johnson9:57

      It's almost time." But man, he's got this ferociousness to live life that I'm really inspired by.

   2. JSJay Shetty10:02

      Yeah. That's brilliant. What, what age are you hoping or, I guess you don't have to hope, predicting to live to?

   3. BJBryan Johnson10:08

      I don't think that any human can say anything intelligent more than one year from now. Like, w- we might, we can say, you know, we think the Earth is going to continue to orbit around the sun with s- a certain degree of stability. Uh, in, in terms of, like, how long are we going to live? How will cultural norms persist? What will be normal? What will not be normal? I think, uh, given how fast AI is developing, we cannot say anything intelligent beyond a year.

   4. JSJay Shetty10:36

      Right. But, but your physical self, you still feel that?

   5. BJBryan Johnson10:39

      I, yeah. I mean, I think that, like, if you look at some of the best AI companies, uh, like Dario from, uh, Anthropic the other day wrote this blog post where he's imagining, and I agree with him, that it's possible we make 100 years' worth of progress in the next five years. Uh, that when we tr- when we bring up these new AI models, that we can do things that otherwise would take us 100 years to do. Now, that does not mean that these therapies will be available overnight. Like, we still have to go through the process. But I do think that we are looking at this possibility. So it's like when I say things like we may be the first generation to not die, people are like, "Stupid." Like, "No." I get that. From, like, this vantage

6. 11:18 – 14:22

   How Long Do We Have to Live?

   1. BJBryan Johnson11:18

      point, we can't see how the pieces of the puzzle come together. Like, it's not clear to us which things do what and when, but that's not the point. It's really you're trying to pattern match large macro scale trends. And if you say how fast is intelligence moving, and when you acquire intelligence, what can that intelligence do? On a macro scale, I think it really is a, a robust hypothesis that we may be the first generation to not die.

   2. JSJay Shetty11:42

      And, and what kind of compromise do you think that's gonna take on a personal level or sacrifice? And you may not use those words-

   3. BJBryan Johnson11:49

      Yeah

   4. JSJay Shetty11:49

      ... but if someone was looking at it and was thinking about it from that perspective.

   5. BJBryan Johnson11:53

      If we just put this in context, like let's imagine you and I travel back in time a million years ago and we're with Homo erectus and we say, "Homo erectus- Tell us about the future of intelligent existence. Like, what are we going to evolve into, right? Now, Homo erectus has models maybe of hunting, of like, you know, weather patterns or of like danger, but Homo erectus is not going to be able to tell you that in this new science field called biology, we're going to figure out that there's molecules and we're going to... Or they're not gonna be able to tell you that in this new world of, you know, quantum mechanics or in this new world of silicon transistors, they don't have any models to articulate what things could come about and why. And so they just lack any models to articulate anything intelligent. And so I wonder in this moment if we are just like Homo erectus, where if you say like, "What will the future bring? What will the norms be? What will our proclivities be? What will we want?" We have no idea. We don't have any models to help us understand. And so that's why I think that if you wanna be a genius, lean into that you probably don't know, that everything we think we have known is now gonna be called into question.

   6. JSJay Shetty13:00

      Mm.

   7. BJBryan Johnson13:01

      And that the, the new genius is leaning into the unknown.

   8. JSJay Shetty13:04

      Yeah. How bad was your health before all of this?

   9. BJBryan Johnson13:07

      Awful. Like, the worst. So I started entrepreneurship at, you know, 21 years old. I started building companies. And the ethos is, you know, you would hear stories of like so-and-so stayed up two nights in a row coding all night. They're amazing. They're a genius. They're so, you know, great. And so that story would be like a status symbol. Like, they're important. They have power. You should respect them. And those stories propagate, then others are like, "I want to have status, and I want to be respected, and I want to do cool stuff." And so you repeat these patterns of sleep deprivation and, you know, harming your health. Now, that's just foolishness. Like that... We know from the evidence that you stay up for over 24 hours, you're legally drunk. Like, you're just as intoxicated had you consumed like you're 0.08 alcohol level. And so, uh, we've really bought into this myth. I did myself. And so I ran myself ragged. Like, just awful. Terrible sleep, terrible diet. I was depressed for 10 years. So I was kind of obsessed with killing myself for 10 years and it was the most awful decade of existence. So I was... That was my starting point. And so now, I mean, I arguably have the best biomarkers of anyone in the world. I've openly shared all my information. They're publicly posted and arguably down the line, like fi- 10, 15, 20 measurements. And so it's been actually

7. 14:22 – 16:50

   Every Body Is Highly Responsive to Change

   1. BJBryan Johnson14:22

      really motivating that if you can start where I was and then turn this hard, others can do the same. So to me it's been a really, uh, motivating experience that your, the body is highly responsive to change.

   2. JSJay Shetty14:37

      Was there a diagnosis or a particular day or event that happened that made you go, "This is my turning point"?

   3. BJBryan Johnson14:44

      Like, I grew up on biographies. I understand the world through biographies and I just love reading about people in time and place who are able to like snatch out of the ether the future. Like, the future is always present. It's just that it's very hard to see.

   4. JSJay Shetty14:58

      Mm-hmm.

   5. BJBryan Johnson14:59

      And then over time we look back, we're like, "Oh, of course, that was the future in that moment," and like certain people saw it. And so I became obsessed with this question at 21, like, "What is the future of existence on a timescale a few hundred years into the future?" And I basically grappled with that problem for 20-plus years.

   6. JSJay Shetty15:14

      Wow.

   7. BJBryan Johnson15:14

      And I didn't know what to do, so I said, "I'm gonna go be an entrepreneur. I'm gonna make a whole bunch of money, and with that money then I'll try to do something interesting." So like it's, it's kind of been this like 25-year-long journey for me to like try to identify something that would have the power of changing the course of humanity and just in the past 12 months I think it finally all came together. And so now, I mean, I arguably have the best biomarkers of anyone in the world. We know from the evidence that you stay up for over 24 hours, you're legally drunk. Like, you're just as intoxicated had you consumed like you're 0.08 alcohol level. In the average brain there's 50% more microplastics now than there was 10 years ago. So it's, it's increasing really, really fast.

   8. JSJay Shetty15:58

      How old were you when you decided to make the shift to say, "I'm going to start turning back the clock"?

   9. BJBryan Johnson16:04

      So I was 43. I'm now 47.

   10. JSJay Shetty16:05

       You're 4-

   11. BJBryan Johnson16:05

       So four years ago.

   12. JSJay Shetty16:06

       So four years ago, right.

   13. BJBryan Johnson16:07

       Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty16:07

       And at which age do you wish you started-

   15. BJBryan Johnson16:09

       [laughs]

   16. JSJay Shetty16:10

       ... the habits that you have today?

   17. BJBryan Johnson16:11

       I, I wish, um, I would have been an embryo selected based upon genetic markers.

   18. JSJay Shetty16:18

       Walk me through that.

   19. BJBryan Johnson16:19

       Yeah. I mean, like now you mean f- when you're going through fertility you create a bunch of embryos and choose the best embryo. You know, like d- for along certain dimensions. And um, you know, I, I'm like most humans on the planet where I was just born through the typical process of, uh... But now you can really go in that, uh, earlier stage and so I wish it would've happened before conception and then I wish growing up. You know, like my... I grew up in Utah which it was very much a culture of, uh, sugar cereal, you

8. 16:50 – 18:12

   Embryo Selection Through Genetic Markers

   1. BJBryan Johnson16:50

      know, soda, uh, excessive sun exposure without sun protection, uh, terrible sleep. Like I just grew up in a culture that was extremely destructive to health and wellness.

   2. JSJay Shetty16:59

      Mm.

   3. BJBryan Johnson17:00

      And so my entire life has actually been in this American culture and it's been really... And I, I was consuming microplastics, you know, from like the earliest of days like all of us have been. And so I would say, yeah, I really wish it would've started before birth if n- if not before then very early in my childhood I wish I wouldn't have been consuming sugar and, and things like that which really has... Those have long-term complications that, uh, we just... I don't know. I'm not sure we're fully aware of them.

   4. JSJay Shetty17:21

      Yeah. For those that don't know, walk us through the microplastics because I feel like that's been a trending term right now. People are becoming more and more aware. Walk it through for someone who's unaware of what's happening there.

   5. BJBryan Johnson17:33

      Yeah. So, I mean like on a large scale like my, my grandfather was full of lead, my parents are full of asbestos and now I'm full of microplastics, right? Like every generation has kind of had their environmental toxin that has been a very, a scourge in the world. Now microplastics have been this recent phenomena because plastics is a very low cost and high quality material and so they're everywhere. And so a microplastic is less than five millimeters in length and we get them in our bodies either by inhaling them- By ingesting them or through our skin. Like in the average male testicle, there's 8.2 milligrams of microplastics. Uh, in our, in the average brain, there's 50%

9. 18:12 – 20:42

   A Generation of Microplastic

   1. BJBryan Johnson18:12

      more microplastics now than there was 10 years ago. So it's, it's increasing really, really fast. And so, uh, my company, Blueprint, we just launched the world's first at home microplastics test. Like we're realizing like this is a major problem and we... The difficulty is we don't have any data. Like no one knows what these levels are in their life. And they- without that data, how do you know what things are working? Like if you stop drinking water out of plastic bottles, what happens? You know, like what happens if you change the clothing you wear? What happens if, etc., etc. And so yeah, I have my levels measured. My whole team did it. Mine came back lower than my, anyone on my team. And we have reasons why we think that's the case, but we're not quite sure. So we're excited that we'll have the world's largest data set of microplastics in the next month. And then as a community we can start saying like, "Now let's all start running these tests and let's build therapies." So we can start doing things to minimize microplastics in the body.

   2. JSJay Shetty19:04

      And what are the adverse effects of microplastics?

   3. BJBryan Johnson19:06

      I mean, for example, women that have higher levels of BPA have or had fewer eggs retrieved. So it affects, you know, very, the fundamental processes of the body. Uh, it's been tied to all kinds of things, neurodegeneration, all k- I mean, basically every health malady is potentially related to microplastics. Now like the science is still emergent and we're still figuring it out, but it's like it's not a situation where we're saying microplastics are a good idea and you should, you should consume more. It's a situation where like we are consuming an enormous amount of them. We think they're causing very serious health problems and may be worse than we think. So it's, it's really a- an area that we need to understand better, but I think minimization is probably the most important step right now.

   4. JSJay Shetty19:51

      So what are three simple steps that someone could take right now to minimize their influx of microplastics?

   5. BJBryan Johnson19:57

      Water is one of the worst offenders, so don't drink out of plastic water bottles. Number two is have a water filter at home. So I have a reverse osmosis system at my house. It's very good. Mine-

   6. JSJay Shetty20:08

      What's it called?

   7. BJBryan Johnson20:08

      Uh, reverse osmosis.

   8. JSJay Shetty20:10

      Is there a brand?

   9. BJBryan Johnson20:11

      There are a bunch of brands who make it.

   10. JSJay Shetty20:12

       Who do you recommend?

   11. BJBryan Johnson20:13

       Uh, mine's custom made. So I'm-- on my website, I have my water filter system listed out of every component. So if you go to blueprint.bryanjohnson.com and my protocol, I have it listed there. And if you're in the United States, the guy who set it up for me, I have his number and name if you wanna just call him. There's other systems that are better. They're like comparable. They're like $300. So it's a very common technology. It's easily accessible. Uh, but have that in your home is a water filter because microplastics are in

10. 20:42 – 23:05

    Simple Ways to Minimize the Influx of Microplastic

    1. BJBryan Johnson20:42

       water. And so that's why when people, they say like, um, "Well, I get my food at a farmer's market, therefore," right? But they don't realize that the, the water that is, you know, coming there to, for the farm is like could be filled with microplastics. So there's just, there's no safe place anywhere for microplastics. Um, number two is, for example, canned soups. Uh, in one study, they showed that a person who consumed canned soup for one week increased their, their levels by twentyfold just in one week.

    2. JSJay Shetty21:12

       Wow.

    3. BJBryan Johnson21:13

       Gigantic, yeah. Also be aware of, of clothing. So try to use, you know, like hemp, uh, cotton, silk, etc. Uh, use a HEPA filter, uh, when you're vacuuming 'cause they can be airborne in the house. Uh, don't handle receipts. That, that has a lot of plastic, microplastics. Um, using cookware that have the stainless steel or cast iron instead of non-stick is really helpful. But there's, those are the kind of the big ones to be aware of.

    4. JSJay Shetty21:39

       That's great.

    5. BJBryan Johnson21:39

       If you go through your, your house environment, just say like, "Where is plastic?" You might find you have a plastic cutting board. You might find you have plastic kitchen utensils. You might have plastic plates. So just be plastic aware. And once you have that mindset, you're going to realize that plastic is like everywhere.

    6. JSJay Shetty21:55

       Mm.

    7. BJBryan Johnson21:55

       So just slowly make progress in trying to replace that with stainless steel, aluminum, things like that.

    8. JSJay Shetty22:01

       What's fascinating is you have no idea how it's entering the system-

    9. BJBryan Johnson22:04

       Yes

    10. JSJay Shetty22:04

        ... because it's not a physical, tangible experience. You're not like feeling something-

    11. BJBryan Johnson22:09

        Exactly

    12. JSJay Shetty22:10

        ... merging into your skin.

    13. BJBryan Johnson22:12

        Yeah.

    14. JSJay Shetty22:12

        Walk us through the, um... What I was thinking about as you were talking is this idea of, uh, what happens to water in a plastic bottle versus a glass bottle.

    15. BJBryan Johnson22:21

        Yeah, I mean, you're getting leaching from the plastic. And so what it-- I think the average, uh, plastic bottle has, I think, 200,000 microplastic particles, something like that. So it's a very large amount. And so generally speaking... So I've just made this rule, like today I, uh, I brought my stainless steel. I just carry this around with me everywhere I go as my primary, uh, container for liquid. But uh, yeah, so just try to avoid plastic as a water bottle generally. And the thing is like most, um, on a more, on a bigger scale, the things which we can't see are now humanity's biggest threats. Like we are, we've ev- we're evolved to say, "Is there a lion in the bush or not?" You know, can we sense it? Can we smell it? Can we see it? Whereas now the dangers of

11. 23:05 – 26:01

    Don’t Drink from Water Bottles

    1. BJBryan Johnson23:05

       like CO2 buildup in the atmosphere, we can't see it. We can't smell it. Like we don't, we don't know it exists. So the only thing we know how it exists, if we see a, uh, like a number on a screen that's like, "This is bad because of this number," we're like, "What does that mean?" We can't see it. There's no real threat. The same is true with microplastics. It's like this unknown threat. We can't see it. We can't feel it. And so that's why like what I've been doing is I've been trying to say like we, the reason why we measure everything is to basically give your body superpowers of awareness. It's like now we understand like what's happening when you ingest fast food. We understand what happens when you ingest microplastics. What happens when you ingest-- when you don't sleep well. Like you see the whole system effect. And so it's really cool in real time to see like actually yes, like for example, one night of bad sleep can, uh, I think it's si- uh, four hours or less reduces your NK cells by 70%. Your NK cells, NK cells are what's killing cancer cells. So like your army of defense systems You got 70% of your army is wiped out after one bad night of sleep. And so it just has these really catastrophic effects

    2. JSJay Shetty24:11

       I'd never heard that before.

    3. BJBryan Johnson24:12

       Yeah. Yeah. Or like, um, there's this thing called, uh, um, S100B. And so, uh, you want these levels to be like in between 20 and 100. Mine are 6- 63.8. When you don't sleep well, it's a toxin that gets inside the brain 'cause the blood brain barrier breaks down. When you have a bad night's sleep, it's the same level as a traumatic brain injury. And so like the body's responding as though you had a traumatic brain injury from one bad night sleep. So these things accumulate over time, and that's why it's, uh... sleep is so critical. It's why this culture of entrepreneurship is like, "Oh, sleep when you're dead," is so lethal to your wellness.

    4. JSJay Shetty24:50

       Uh, I'm so glad you're, you're talking about it. And I love the... You know, that idea that it's almost like the worst prison that you can be in is one where you don't know you've got handcuffs on.

    5. BJBryan Johnson25:00

       Yeah, [laughs] there you go. Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty25:00

       Like, you, you don't realize it.

    7. BJBryan Johnson25:02

       Yeah, yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty25:02

       And, and I mean, social media is kind of like that.

    9. BJBryan Johnson25:04

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty25:04

        Like, you're in this prison of a world, and you don't even realize you're being trapped, and our health's the same way. I was... My friend's dad was in town from London a couple of weeks back, and he has this app on his phone that shows the air pollution.

    11. BJBryan Johnson25:17

        Yes.

    12. JSJay Shetty25:18

        I don't know what it's called.

    13. BJBryan Johnson25:18

        Yeah, IQAir.

    14. JSJay Shetty25:19

        Right. Okay. And he had it on his phone, and he lives outside of the city of London, so he's not really in the heart of London. And he said that pollution score where my friend grew up, where my wife grew up is around two. Like, I think it's on a scale of zero to 100-

    15. BJBryan Johnson25:32

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty25:32

        ... unless I'm wrong. And he did it [laughs] here in LA, and it was 60.

    17. BJBryan Johnson25:36

        Yes.

    18. JSJay Shetty25:37

        And I was like, "I have no..." To me, when I wake up, I feel like the air's... Like, I mean, everyone knows LA is polluted, but I don't feel that.

    19. BJBryan Johnson25:45

        Exactly.

    20. JSJay Shetty25:45

        Right? I don't know that. Whereas, like, if I go to a certain country in the world which is known for its horrific air pollution, I can somewhat tell the difference.

    21. BJBryan Johnson25:53

        Yeah, yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty25:53

        But it was like I could tell no difference from this between where my wife grew up in England, yet-

    23. BJBryan Johnson25:58

        Exactly

    24. JSJay Shetty25:58

        ... it's extraordinarily different.

    25. BJBryan Johnson26:00

        Yeah.

12. 26:01 – 30:11

    The Significant Health Threat of Air Pollution

    1. BJBryan Johnson26:01

       That's right. Yeah. On the air pollution, I agree with you.

    2. JSJay Shetty26:03

       Yeah, sure.

    3. BJBryan Johnson26:03

       I mean, I, I live in LA as well. So I have a air measurement device in every room of my house and filters. And so we measure the air quality in every single room 24/7. So you're right, like LA air quality is typically around the 60 mark, which is like kinda bad, but in my house it's perfect. It's zero. And so, yeah, I'm always aware of where the air quality is outside and inside. So yeah, I, I wish LA had better air quality. I love LA for so many reasons. I really wish the air quality was better, but yeah, I agree with you. It is a, uh, a significant health threat, and it's not a good idea to have a lot of exposure to bad air.

    4. JSJay Shetty26:38

       How do we go about purifying air inside of our homes? Obviously, we can't control the air-

    5. BJBryan Johnson26:43

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty26:43

       ... in the city we live in.

    7. BJBryan Johnson26:44

       Yeah. There's, there's quite a few filters. I, I'll get you the names of the ones I use, but I just have one filter per room, and it does a great job taking down multiple contaminants. So if you're just mindful... Like, for example, I'd never leave my windows open, so it's always a, a pretty tight air block. Um, I do go outside, you know, when the air quality's nice. I try to be mindful. But also, like, if we're going to play a s- like basketball game with friends, I'll also do that. So I kinda have, like, some flexibility. But yeah, you can actually maintain near perfect air quality in the house.

    8. JSJay Shetty27:13

       Mm.

    9. BJBryan Johnson27:13

       And so if you go to my house, like I'd love to have you come see it. Uh, like it's basically we have perfect water, perfect air. It's the optimal state for health-

    10. JSJay Shetty27:22

        Mm-hmm

    11. BJBryan Johnson27:22

        ... across all the spectrums.

    12. JSJay Shetty27:24

        And when you talk about water too, have you changed the water you're showering in as well? Because I think that's sometime... That's something me and my wife have been talking about. We have a reverse osmosis-

    13. BJBryan Johnson27:33

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty27:33

        ... machine for water that we drink.

    15. BJBryan Johnson27:35

        Yes.

    16. JSJay Shetty27:35

        But recently we were talking to a skin health expert, and he was talking about the water we shower in having a different effect. And I literally tested washing my face with the water I drink and washing my face with shower water, and he could immediately tell the difference using the tools and devices he was measuring just with how it affected my skin.

    17. BJBryan Johnson27:55

        Yes. Yeah. That's very true. And so we actually did the same measurements where I took water that was from our filter system and water, tap water. I put it into a humidifier in my room. I turned it on, and then I measured the air quality based upon humidified tap water and filtered water. The tap water set off all the alarms. It was like, "Danger zone." [laughs] "Something bad is happening." So we're doing the analysis now. But I agree, like they cause a lot of harm on skin, inside the body. So yeah, and they're... they have to be proactively managed.

    18. JSJay Shetty28:23

        Yeah. What I find fascinating about so much of this stuff is, and you said you were going to India soon, and you'll see it there. Like when I grew up and when I used to visit India when I was young, and even when I lived there for some time, we always used, used stainless steel to drink in. Like, that was the norm.

    19. BJBryan Johnson28:37

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JSJay Shetty28:38

        And it's almost like now it's like all these new... You know, now everyone's using stainless steel in the Western world. But now if you go back to India, lots of plastic bottles everywhere.

    21. BJBryan Johnson28:46

        [laughs] Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty28:46

        And so it's such a, like, weird thing as to how we went away from tried and tested wisdom that we already had. Like in my home, every cup for drinking water growing up would be stainless steel-

    23. BJBryan Johnson28:58

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty28:58

        ... because it was the Indian way to do it. And I always didn't like it 'cause I didn't like the clanging. It felt weird 'cause when my... when I'm in a friend's houses, they didn't have stainless steel cups and things. It felt a bit awkward and strange.

    25. BJBryan Johnson29:08

        Mm. Mm.

    26. JSJay Shetty29:09

        Now when I think about it, I'm like, "Well, that was the right way to do it."

    27. BJBryan Johnson29:11

        Yeah. That's right.

    28. JSJay Shetty29:12

        Yeah. And somehow, somehow we, we went away from that because I guess cost, it was cheaper to produce-

    29. BJBryan Johnson29:18

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty29:18

        ... cheaper to scale. I wonder how much human health has been sacrificed over saving and making money.
13. 30:11 – 32:28

    How Capitalism Affects Health

    1. JSJay Shetty30:11

       Like, I loved how you started off by explaining that the $2 million isn't on the protocols-

    2. BJBryan Johnson30:16

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty30:16

       ... which we'll get to, but the 2 million is actually on the research and the measuring so that you can prove that the protocols work.

    4. BJBryan Johnson30:22

       Exactly right.

    5. JSJay Shetty30:23

       And so it's actually accessible to everyone, but often people are like... Like I remember when, when celery juice was the thing, which has helped me a lot in my life for sure, at least from a story anecdotal point of view. Um, but I remember everyone being like, "Oh, my God, they're just trying to make money off of celery farms." And I was like [laughs] I don't know. I don't think everyone... I don't think there's one person that owns every celery farm. So I don't think that's working. What's your take on that, if that's making any sense?

    6. BJBryan Johnson30:47

       Yeah, it does. Yeah. When I entered this world four years ago, I thought there are so many patterns that were similar to religion, where like you take the King James Version of the Bible and you can support 100 different denominations, right? And they all fight, like, "We're the true religion because, like, this scripture, that scripture." So then you walk in the world, you're like, "How do I even know, like, what's going on? It's all in the same book."

    7. JSJay Shetty31:05

       Yeah.

    8. BJBryan Johnson31:05

       And so health and wellness was very similar of like take your guru, take your charismatic personality, and like do this thing. And we wanted... I wanted to say, like, we're going to be strictly science and strictly data, and we're gonna open source publish everything I do. There's no gatekeeping involved here. And so that's what we did I think to carve that uniqueness is that we just said, like, "We don't care about story. We just wanna see the data."

    9. JSJay Shetty31:25

       Yeah.

    10. BJBryan Johnson31:25

        And so I think that's really been successful is that we are impartial. We don't care what the answer is. We just want it to work.

    11. JSJay Shetty31:32

        Yeah. And you're doing it to yourself.

    12. BJBryan Johnson31:34

        Yeah. [laughs] That's right.

    13. JSJay Shetty31:35

        Yeah. So that, that's the greatest test.

    14. BJBryan Johnson31:36

        When you have a bad night's sleep, it's the same level as a traumatic brain injury. And so, like, the body's responding as though you had a traumatic brain injury from one bad night's sleep. No one has mastered sleep in human history, right? Like, we have no quantified... There's no like a gold medalist of sleep. There's no, like, world record of sleep. And I thought, "I'm gonna set a world record of sleep." The biggest breakthrough in my depression was when I learned I am not my thoughts.

    15. JSJay Shetty32:00

        Your sleep score has been 100% for the last eight months. What does that require?

    16. BJBryan Johnson32:06

        I mean, I wanted to... Like, Amelia Earhart flew a plane across the Atlantic, you know. There were... People went to the top of Everest, went to the bottom of the ocean. Shackleton was trying to do a pole to pole. I was like, what would a modern-day explorer do? Like, what is, like, an epic thing? I thought no one has shown ma- no one has mastered sleep in human history, right? Like, we have no quantified... There's no like a gold medalist of sleep. There's no, like, world record

14. 32:28 – 40:12

    5 Ways to Get Better Sleep

    1. BJBryan Johnson32:28

       of sleep. And I thought, "I'm gonna set a world record of sleep." And so eight months of perfect sleep. And I wanted to demonstrate you can achieve high-quality sleep every single night if you try it. And so I rebuilt my entire life around it. So yeah, I mean, I became the world's best sleeper.

    2. JSJay Shetty32:42

       And what does that require to become the world, world's best sleeper?

    3. BJBryan Johnson32:45

       Uh, I mean, really five simple things which everybody can do. It's so funny, I tried hundreds of things, and I just landed on five. So one is you have to reframe your identity that you are a professional sleeper. So just like you take your professional job seriously, you show up on time, right? You learn, you grow, like you have a lot of self-respect on what you do. The same is true for sleep. Right now, like, we sleep when it's convenient or when we're done watching our show or when we're finished, like, having friends over. But sleep is actually a profession. Like, you need to become really good at it and respect it. Number two is, uh, the last time of the, the, the time of your final meal of the day is really important. So at least two hours before you go to bed is your final meal. Then start three hours before and then four and five. Mine is currently nine hours before. So I go to bed at roughly 8:30. That's not true. I go to bed at 8:30 [laughs] on the dot. Uh, so then I... My last meal of the day is around 11:30 a.m. And so I do that, and my resting heart rate at that point is 44. And when my resting heart rate's 44, I'm guaranteed to have a perfect night's sleep. If I eat two hours before bed, my resting heart rate's gonna be like 56 'cause your body's still working hard to digest, and that will reduce my sleep quality by 35-ish percent. Just like clockwork. It's very predictable. So last meal of the day, and then what you eat is really important. If you have like a big pizza or pasta or breads or alcohol, you're going to disrupt your sleep. So final meal, eat earlier and lighter and the right kinds of foods. Uh, three is you want to be aware of light. So knock out blues. No screen time. Uh, there's an app called f.lux, F-L-U-X, that knocks out blues on your screen even before that last minute. Uh, so an hour before bed, uh, no screen time. Take lights down in the house, and then also use red lights, amber lights. Uh, four is consistency. So whatever your bedtime is, say it's 10:30, be in bed plus or minus 30 minutes, uh, every night. Now, if you wanna get more precise, like five minutes, that's kinda hard for some people, but 30 minutes is a pretty good one. Your body will give you a superpower of assistance if you're consistent. Like when I was going to bed on time, when I did my eight months of perfect sleep, I was in bed plus or minus one minute of my bedtime, and my body would... When I'd... 8:29 would arrive, my body would just, like, knock out. It was unreal how powerful my cycle was. So if you can harness that consistency, your body will be more powerful than any sleep pill, any other intervention. It's really good. And then the fifth, and this is really important, is a wind-down routine. So one hour before bedtime, you switch from work mode to sleep mode. And so it's really a mind game because when you slip into your sleep mode, one second later your brain's gonna say, "Oh, what about this idea?" Or, "What about this concern?" Or, "What about this problem?" Or, "What about this thing I forgot to do?" And your body, your head's just gonna... Your mind's gonna ping you with all these things. You'd have to say like, "Thank you, ambitious Bryan [laughs] for the new idea on what to do. We really appreciate you. You're doing a great job in life. Also, tomorrow we have all day long to address this. Right now we're in sleep mode." So I do this self-talk like, you know, like, "Oh, you had this conversation today when you were with Jay. You said this thing. You probably offended him. Now he probably doesn't wanna hang out with you anymore." You're like-

    4. JSJay Shetty35:53

       Not true

    5. BJBryan Johnson35:53

       ... you have to cycle through all these, all these anxious thoughts. And so you have to do this self-talk and be like, "I hear you. It's okay. I've heard your concern." Because what you're trying to do is when your head hits a pillow You want to be somewhat reconciled with reality. Otherwise, you're going to all night long just loop through those thoughts all night long.

    6. JSJay Shetty36:13

       Yeah.

    7. BJBryan Johnson36:13

       And you'll be in light sleep, and you'll just be in the same thought space, and you're missing your deep and your REM. So, uh, so then the wind-down routine, you switch to, uh, sleep mode, but then you also want to do things like read a book, go for a walk, do breathwork, meditate, you know, have a, have a ni- nice conversation with a friend. Like, don't fight with your partner in that window. Like, don't create an arousing situation. So those five things will give you the best sleep of your life.

    8. JSJay Shetty36:36

       Yeah, it's almost like we wait for our head to hit the pillow to reflect on the thoughts-

    9. BJBryan Johnson36:41

       Yes

    10. JSJay Shetty36:41

        ... that we didn't choose to reflect on before we got into bed because we don't have that reflection time before getting into bed. Because that's what I was gonna say. I think for most people, they can get into bed, but then they sit there for an hour-

    11. BJBryan Johnson36:53

        That's right

    12. JSJay Shetty36:53

        ... worrying and stressing, and they're feeling anxious or nervous or overwhelmed, but you're saying that's gonna happen. You just gotta do that before you actually get into bed.

    13. BJBryan Johnson37:03

        Exactly. Like, you have to go through this decompression time. You kind of have to let yourself, like, air out all of its grievances, all of its ideas, like, all of its reconciliation, and you have to talk to your... like, talk through it with yourself. Like, "Hey, Bryan," like, and be soft. Like, "I hear you," like, "and it's okay." Like, "Tomorrow we're all right." But otherwise, yeah, you- you're right. Like, you really... People, most people think you lay down and that's the time to do the reconciliation, and it just leads to disaster. But there's, like, there's five metrics to pay attention to or, I guess four. Your sleep is good if when you... if your head is on the pillow, you're asleep within a few minutes. If you're longer than that, then you need some work. Uh, two is you wanna be up less than 30 minutes per night total. So if you're up for one bathroom break, you know, back to sleep quickly. Uh, three is, like, roughly two hours of REM, roughly two hours of deep. There's variance there. People are different on that one, but, like, those are roughly the sleep stats. If you're in that category, you're, like, early 20s-like in your sleep quality. As you age, it's harder to get sleep.

    14. JSJay Shetty38:03

        Mm.

    15. BJBryan Johnson38:03

        And that's especially true for women. They have to spend much longer time in bed than men do. So it's really important that these habits you cement, otherwise, like, you're really fighting against multiple fronts.

    16. JSJay Shetty38:13

        Mm. And do you think that for people who are waking up often when they're asleep or, and they're awake for longer than just a few moments, what should they be looking at? Like, what metrics should they be pushing towards to be like, "That's what's causing it"? How do they deduce that?

    17. BJBryan Johnson38:27

        Sometimes it's the last meal of the day.

    18. JSJay Shetty38:30

        Mm.

    19. BJBryan Johnson38:30

        So if their body's-

    20. JSJay Shetty38:31

        I agree

    21. BJBryan Johnson38:31

        ... still robustly digesting, then you have... you basically, you'll miss your deep... 'Cause when you go to sleep, you fall into a deep sleep window very quickly, and then if you miss it, you can't get it. So last week I was at a conference, and everyone went out for this big party, and I wanted to try to accommodate... Like, I wanted to be with everyone, so I went to bed at, uh, 7:00 PM. I woke up at 9:00 PM, so I got my two hours of deep sleep. Then I went out with everybody. We had a great time. I came back home. I went to bed, I think, at 1:00 or 2:00, and then I got my remaining six hours of REM. You know, I actually, I get two hours of REM but six hours of sleep. And I still had a great night's sleep, and I felt wonderful the next day. But if you wait and go to bed, like, at midnight, for me, I would just miss my deep sleep.

    22. JSJay Shetty39:12

        Mm-hmm.

    23. BJBryan Johnson39:13

        It would be gone.

    24. JSJay Shetty39:14

        Yeah.

    25. BJBryan Johnson39:14

        And so, like, I'm trying to, like, functionally be adaptive to societal norms while l- while still logging those metrics. But yeah, you have to be mindful of, like, if you build your life around it, then you can make these, uh, adjustments, but you really have to make a professional effort to do this because it takes... Like, structurally just get it right, and then you'll win.

    26. JSJay Shetty39:33

        Yeah. I feel, I feel a big difference. So I'm, I'm pretty disciplined in my sleep times as well. Have been for a long time. I, I maybe haven't measured it for as long, but I'm thankful and grateful to have great sleep. But the... I've found that when I'm sleeping after midnight, it doesn't matter how many hours I sleep for, I never feel as good in the morning.

    27. BJBryan Johnson39:51

        Exactly.

    28. JSJay Shetty39:52

        It, it's so significant. Why is that?

    29. BJBryan Johnson39:55

        Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty39:55

        What's happening when we're sleeping consistently after 11:00 PM or midnight? What's actually happening?
15. 40:12 – 43:37

    Don’t Miss Your Deep Sleep Window

    1. BJBryan Johnson40:12

       happen between 10:30 and 12:30. You may have a bit more deep sleep, like, at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, but the majority is gonna be front-loaded. So if you miss that front window, you just miss it, and you can't pick it up.

    2. JSJay Shetty40:23

       Why is that front window so much more important than the later window?

    3. BJBryan Johnson40:27

       Yeah, 'cause you, you have a few sleep types. You've got REM, you have deep, you have light. And deep, so many restorative processes are happening. In REM, you've got a bunch of memory reconciliation, whatnot. But deep, you just have this restorative building process. So you basically miss out on all those restorative processes if you miss it, which is why, like, the brain hurts when you don't get it. You can't do, like, garbage collection. Like, you miss the garbage truck.

    4. JSJay Shetty40:52

       Mm. What about... Oh yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. To miss the garbage truck. That's-

    5. BJBryan Johnson40:56

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty40:56

       ... I've never heard that. I've heard the dishwasher analogy before, but the garbage truck one's even better, actually.

    7. BJBryan Johnson41:02

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty41:02

       The idea that if your garbage didn't get picked up and it's still outside your house or your apartment or even in your home-

    9. BJBryan Johnson41:07

       You're stuck with it the next day

    10. JSJay Shetty41:08

        ... that's pretty terrible, and you're stuck with it for another week.

    11. BJBryan Johnson41:11

        Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty41:11

        'Cause no one, no one's coming to collect it.

    13. BJBryan Johnson41:12

        No one's coming to get it.

    14. JSJay Shetty41:13

        No one's coming to collect it.

    15. BJBryan Johnson41:14

        Exactly. Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty41:14

        That's, that's a great analogy.

    17. BJBryan Johnson41:15

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty41:15

        Yeah, that, that feels really, really true, and I feel like what we don't realize... Because we often say... I know so many people who say, "But I do my best creative work at night."

    19. BJBryan Johnson41:23

        Yes, exactly.

    20. JSJay Shetty41:24

        I know a lot of people who say, "Oh yeah, but I need to go to that party," or whatever it is, right? Or, "I feel left out," or FOMO or whatever it is. Or, or people who just go, "Yeah, I just can never get to sleep, so what's the point?"

    21. BJBryan Johnson41:35

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty41:36

        And what would you say to someone who says any one of those three?

    23. BJBryan Johnson41:39

        So I've learned to be... In doing this for four years, I've learned to be very humble.

    24. JSJay Shetty41:43

        Mm.

    25. BJBryan Johnson41:44

        I, I don't know how much we know and how much we don't know. Like, if it may be, for example, like, we actually know 2% of what we will know in 10, 20, 30 years, and so we're very humble. Like, for example, I am vegan, I am caloric restriction, and yet, you know, if you hear those stats... And I also do low protein. And so if you hear those stats, the, the cultural norm would be like, "Oh, he for sure is broken, weak, not capable, not athletic, not strong." But in every category, like my cardiovascular fitness, my actual physical strength- All my metrics are top 1%. And so we've defied the cultural norm of what is good health, right? How you achieve good health. And so I know this is probably true for others as well, is many of the things we believe are probably not true. And so I'm soft also [laughs] that I- I've learned that people have a justification for everything.

    26. JSJay Shetty42:39

        Mm-hmm.

    27. BJBryan Johnson42:39

        Now there's just no way around it. That's, that's humans. And so I don't try to resist it, just say like, "Great, do your thing. Just measure your data." Because we know the stats, like for example, if you're not sleeping well, your other markers are gonna be off, like your S- you know, SB100, uh, like all these diff- all these markers are gonna be off. I invite just look at the data.

    28. JSJay Shetty43:00

        What are the data-driven insights of poor sleep? Like, what really is gonna happen to you? You already told us what happens after one night of sleep. What does it look like when you have seven nights, seven months of bad sleep?

    29. BJBryan Johnson43:15

        I mean, like, if you notice, like, I did this, uh, my company Kernel, we built this brain interface, this wearable fMRI, and we were measuring the effects on my brain, uh, of willpower with deep sleep and without deep sleep. So with deep sleep, my willpower was significantly high. Without deep sleep, it significantly dropped.

    30. JSJay Shetty43:33

        Mm.
16. 43:37 – 45:48

    The Ill Effects of Poor Sleep

    1. BJBryan Johnson43:37

       brownie or not, do you work out or not, do you have a drink or not, like, right? The chances of you caving in that moment are significantly higher if you've not had deep sleep. So then it has this cascade effect. So if you don't sleep, then you're also going to do this bad thing, which also leads to poor sleep, which also leads to doing more bad things. So it has this domino effect where it really cements bad habits, and it becomes harder for you to come out from underneath it of actually making mea- meaningful change.

    2. JSJay Shetty44:03

       I can so relate to that.

    3. BJBryan Johnson44:04

       [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty44:04

       I only... I, again, I see myself craving sugars-

    5. BJBryan Johnson44:08

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty44:08

       ... when I've had bad sleep.

    7. BJBryan Johnson44:09

       Exactly.

    8. JSJay Shetty44:10

       And when I haven't, and I've worked out and everything, I feel great.

    9. BJBryan Johnson44:13

       Yes.

    10. JSJay Shetty44:13

        And as soon as I've had a bad night's sleep, the next day I know all I want is some sugar, and it's the only way to get through. And you're so right, it's just a repeating cycle.

    11. BJBryan Johnson44:20

        Exactly.

    12. JSJay Shetty44:21

        Yeah.

    13. BJBryan Johnson44:21

        It just devastates your willpower, and like all these other cascading b- things. And so that's why, like, I think in even like 5 or 10 years, uh, I think that health is gon- it will become the zeitgeist, and I think we'll look back and we'll be like, "What? Like, we used to just sleep deprive ourselves, and, like, we had no idea what it was doing for these follow-on effects?" Like, I want to... Actually, what I'd like to do is tie sleep to IQ.

    14. JSJay Shetty44:44

        Mm.

    15. BJBryan Johnson44:45

        You don't mess with someone's IQ, right? Like, if you can show that IQ drops post a bad night's sleep, it basically decimates these ideas of like, "Genius person does blank without sleep." So the ultimate argument is data. So it's a study I want to do, is take these patterns, measure IQ throughout the day, and if you can show that drop, like, there's very few things that'll be more effective than showing that you basically become dumb when you don't sleep.

    16. JSJay Shetty45:11

        Yeah. Yeah, I think, uh, yeah, we're gonna have to find a way of convincing people-

    17. BJBryan Johnson45:15

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty45:15

        ... that, that sleep's a good investment. And it, and it's hard, right? Because it almost feels like, I think we don't look at our part, that part of our health as something we can be good at.

    19. BJBryan Johnson45:25

        Yes.

    20. JSJay Shetty45:25

        And that's why your whole idea of becoming a professional sleeper, like, I think we do think about, "Oh, I want to be a professional runner. I could be a professional bodybuilder." Like, these are parts of our health that becoming good at seems aspirational.

    21. BJBryan Johnson45:37

        Exactly.

    22. JSJay Shetty45:38

        But becoming a good sleeper or even becoming a good meditator to some degree aren't seen as professional accomplishments-

    23. BJBryan Johnson45:44

        Yes

    24. JSJay Shetty45:44

        ... or pursuits because they don't have this competition, and, and

17. 45:48 – 48:12

    Invest in Your Health

    1. JSJay Shetty45:48

       not ne- nor should it be a, a competition. I don't think it needs to be. But this idea of competing against yourself-

    2. BJBryan Johnson45:53

       Yes

    3. JSJay Shetty45:53

       ... which is what a sleep score is-

    4. BJBryan Johnson45:55

       Yes

    5. JSJay Shetty45:55

       ... seems like the healthiest way to do it.

    6. BJBryan Johnson45:57

       Exactly. I did this as well with, uh... So when this endeavor went viral, people were confused, and so I got a lot of name-calling. So people would be like, "You're an eccentric billionaire, rich Patrick Bateman, Prometheus," you know, like all the pot- possible things they could call me. And so they were just confused. And so I'd say like, "Okay, LeBron James spends $1.5 million a year on his health, right?" And you see him play on the court, you're like, "Good job, LeBron. Like, you're doing a good job." But someone like myself, if you've worked really hard at health and wellness, I'm weird and an outcast and should be an eccentric. And so I had to clarify for people that actually I'm a new category, and I came up with this idea that I'm a professional rejuvenation athlete. It's a new sport, it's a new game, and I created a leaderboard. So, uh, looked at, uh, speed of aging. So there's a clock inside of our body that tells you how fast or how slow you're aging. And then I said, "All right, world, let's compete." 'Cause right now you have, like, all these health gurus who are saying like, "Do this, do that," but how do you know what thing works? And so I was like, "All right, just show us your data."

    7. JSJay Shetty46:55

       Mm-hmm.

    8. BJBryan Johnson46:55

       So now we have a leaderboard. And so same thing, just like a professional sleeper, there's now a professional rejuvenat- rejuvenation athlete, and we have a leaderboard. People compete. So it's like it helps humans understand, like, what the game is and how to win and how to score points.

    9. JSJay Shetty47:07

       Yeah. And I, and I think we underestimate how much we do function like athletes. Like, athletes are playing three or four big games a week. If you're playing basketball-

    10. BJBryan Johnson47:17

        Yeah

    11. JSJay Shetty47:17

        ... if you're playing soccer, it's probably like two to three. American football, I, I don't know, maybe it's a, a game a week or a couple of games a week. But it's like we don't realize, like, that tough conversation at work, that presentation at work, that bid, that sale, like whatever it is, like all of that is taxing us-

    12. BJBryan Johnson47:35

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty47:36

        ... in a different way. Like, we're not pushing our bodies that far, but we are pushing our brains. We are pushing our guts. We are pushing our minds. And I wanted to talk to you a bit about food because you, you brought up a few interesting things there about eating that much earlier before bed. But I wanted to start with the low protein. So I'm vegan too, so that's why I was-

    14. BJBryan Johnson47:54

        Oh, is it? Yeah

    15. JSJay Shetty47:55

        ... I was listening to you. So I was like, I'm vegan too. ... measure caloric intake, but hearing you talk about being low protein, that's something I'm always told to do the opposite for.

    16. BJBryan Johnson48:04

        Mm.

    17. JSJay Shetty48:04

        So walk me through that.

    18. BJBryan Johnson48:06

        Yeah, what's your protein intake?

    19. JSJay Shetty48:07

        So I, I've been told, or I've been told to try and do, like, my body weight, right?

18. 48:12 – 51:22

    What’s Your Protein Intake?

    1. JSJay Shetty48:12

       And so that's impossible for me. My gut does not enjoy that. And so as I try to increase my protein intake, I found that it was harder and heavier on my gut. If I'm honest right now, I'm probably doing like 80 grams-

    2. BJBryan Johnson48:24

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty48:24

       ... of protein a day.

    4. BJBryan Johnson48:25

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty48:26

       Uh, and that's good if I get there.

    6. BJBryan Johnson48:28

       Mm.

    7. JSJay Shetty48:29

       Like, realistically. And my gut can handle that. Whereas I saw my gut health struggling as I tried to get to 120 grams of protein.

    8. BJBryan Johnson48:36

       Mm. Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty48:37

       140.

    10. BJBryan Johnson48:38

        Yeah. See, I'm in the same range, so I'm roughly 120.

    11. JSJay Shetty48:41

        Okay.

    12. BJBryan Johnson48:41

        So I weigh 174.

    13. JSJay Shetty48:43

        Yeah.

    14. BJBryan Johnson48:43

        Yeah. And so, uh, I say that's low protein. So it sounds like for where you're at, that's about where you're at. But most men I know are typically in like the 200, 250 range. They have an idea that just there's no upper bound of too much protein, and so they just pound it. And so yeah, I guess my 120 is generally speaking on the s- on the lower side of how most men think about protein consumption.

    15. JSJay Shetty49:07

        Right, right, right.

    16. BJBryan Johnson49:07

        Especially with, you know, an hour every day working out.

    17. JSJay Shetty49:10

        Yeah, sure, yeah.

    18. BJBryan Johnson49:10

        It's like a really rigorous schedule. So most people just assume you have to have more protein.

    19. JSJay Shetty49:15

        So it's sim- So I'm, I'm, I'm vegan. I work out an hour every day. But yeah, just when I was being told to eat like 160, 170 grams of protein, I couldn't go beyond 100. I was like, "My body just does not like it."

    20. BJBryan Johnson49:27

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty49:27

        And I'm about to destroy my gut to try and get a protein goal, but then my gut health's gonna suffer.

    22. BJBryan Johnson49:33

        Yeah. Yeah, so we look at it, so we say, like, basically you can look up blood biomarkers and say... 'Cause once you get too much protein, it has a negative effect on the body. You can tease out those biomarkers, but then we've used MRI to say, like, what is my total muscle mass? What is my fat? You know, liver fat, like, throughout. So for example, on my latest MRI scan, I'm in the top 1% for ideal muscle and fat. And so by every marker, and then my cardiovascular fitness, I'm top 1.5% of 18-year-olds. So like, like that's the endpoint. So if you say what is the protein intake, it's not solely based upon a dietary recommendation. It's like what is happening in the body, and what is my muscle status? What is my cardiovascular status? What is my energy? And so like those are the endpoints where, again, you move away from story, and you move to data and let data resolve the debate.

    23. JSJay Shetty50:21

        What's, what's your body fat percentage right now?

    24. BJBryan Johnson50:23

        Around 10.

    25. JSJay Shetty50:23

        Okay. And, and was that a goal you had?

    26. BJBryan Johnson50:26

        It was like an approximate goal, but we were really trying to say if you're taking every organ in the body, we're trying to make every organ in my body age 18. That's kind of a ridiculous idea in this moment, but it may not be in 5 or 10 or 15 years. We've been successful in slowing down my speed of aging and then reversing the biological age of some of my organs, not all, like for example, my left ear. It's really this methodical progress to say can you measure age and then move the organ back?

    27. JSJay Shetty50:54

        Mm-hmm. And from a diet perspective, what helps you get to age 18?

    28. BJBryan Johnson50:58

        Yeah, we've tried to construct a perfect diet. So every single calorie I consume has a specific objective. If it doesn't achieve a goal... Like, we basically tried to just stack superfoods across the board. And, uh, so there's nothing I eat which is like cool or fun or culturally in. It has to have rigorous scientific evidence, and then we have to measure it in the body that it's actually working. And so yeah, I eat a lot

19. 51:22 – 56:11

    Bryan’s Perfect Diet

    1. BJBryan Johnson51:22

       of broccoli, cauliflower, lentils, hemp, uh, pea protein, uh, hemp protein, uh, berries, nuts, seeds.

    2. JSJay Shetty51:31

       Could you walk me through your exact meals?

    3. BJBryan Johnson51:32

       Yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty51:32

       Like a, a rough day? 'Cause I'm gonna try mirror these meals.

    5. BJBryan Johnson51:36

       Yeah. So my, my first meal of the day is called Super Veggie, and it's, it's, uh, broccoli, cauliflower, black lentils, uh, ginger, garlic. Yeah, that's the first meal. And the second meal is called Nutty Pudding, which is macadamia nuts, walnuts, flax seed, pomegranate juice, some berries, and pea and hemp protein. And then the third meal of the day varies every day. So it's like some vegetables, some berry, nut, seed, but a total of 2,500 calories. And then I do one tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil with each meal, so I do three tablespoons a day.

    6. JSJay Shetty52:07

       Drizzled on top?

    7. BJBryan Johnson52:08

       Yeah, exactly.

    8. JSJay Shetty52:08

       Yeah.

    9. BJBryan Johnson52:08

       Yeah, raw, so I never cook with it.

    10. JSJay Shetty52:10

        Mm-hmm.

    11. BJBryan Johnson52:10

        And then, um, I do collagen peptides, so that's the only thing that's non-vegan-

    12. JSJay Shetty52:14

        Mm-hmm

    13. BJBryan Johnson52:14

        ... is the collagen peptides. And that's 2,250... Oh, I also do some cocoa, 100% pure cocoa, six grams a day. And then I take around 50 pills. So there's, there's no diet. There's no, no vegan diet, no carnivore diet can satisfy the body's entire needs. So you have to supplement if you want to be ideal. And then if you want to be on the frontier of like really slowing down your aging and robustly, uh, addressing the body's needs, you need to supplement. The, some things just cannot be acquired through, through diet.

    14. JSJay Shetty52:43

        Mm.

    15. BJBryan Johnson52:44

        And so these are like, um, this is just scientific fact. It's very hard to have this conversation. Like, the moment you bring up diet, people just go crazy. Like, war breaks out between the vegans and the carnivores, between this and that. It's just so... I just, I, I don't talk about it much [laughs] because people get so triggered by it.

    16. JSJay Shetty53:02

        Mm.

    17. BJBryan Johnson53:03

        And so I just try to like say like, "Do your thing. Like, whatever it is, do your thing. Just measure."

    18. JSJay Shetty53:08

        Yeah.

    19. BJBryan Johnson53:08

        "And then follow your markers."

    20. JSJay Shetty53:09

        But it's like no processed foods, no packaged foods. Like, you're not eating anything out of a, a packet scene.

    21. BJBryan Johnson53:14

        Yeah. I mean, actually I eat, uh, so all Blueprint food. Uh, so basically when I started doing this, we started measuring everything I was consuming, all foods, all supplements. And as you might expect, the supplement labels are not accurate. [laughs] Like, companies are not truthful, and the food is terrifyingly toxic. Like, we know the food system's dirty, but I had this general idea that there must be some system in place in America to like watching out for us. Not true. So unless the food is killing you on the spot, there's like this gray area of like kinda just do whatever. And so we were finding these foods I was eating were very toxic. And so we basically spent the past year sourcing food from all over the entire world, the very best foods, lowest levels of toxins. Uh, and so we've made it out into a product. Uh, people are like, "I wanna do this, but it's way too complicated" so we just made it easy for everybody. But it's like I think we've created the most scientifically robust product- Out there, plus the cleanest. All third-party lab results posted

    22. JSJay Shetty54:10

        So wait, what can people buy?

    23. BJBryan Johnson54:12

        Yeah, so this is my company Blueprint.

    24. JSJay Shetty54:14

        Yeah.

    25. BJBryan Johnson54:14

        So yeah, so when, when the company went viral, when this endeavor went viral, people are like, "Love it. I wanna do it, but it's way too hard. Like, no way can I put this all together." And so I thought, "Okay, I'll do it." So we put together the whole thing in this low-cost, easy-to-consume package.

    26. JSJay Shetty54:31

        Mm.

    27. BJBryan Johnson54:31

        Olive oil, protein, eight pills a day, and then a bunch of other stuff. But we're trying to basically say, like, you can get every calorie you need from us.

    28. JSJay Shetty54:39

        Got it.

    29. BJBryan Johnson54:39

        And so we're trying to do most scientific- scientifically rigorous and cleanest, and then transparent, like, here are the lab results. So I think we've built the, the best thing in the entire world.

    30. JSJay Shetty54:50

        And, and you don't think that's different from getting your calories from Whole Foods and real foods?
20. 56:11 – 58:21

    Eating 3 Meals a Day in 5 Hours

    1. BJBryan Johnson56:11

       anything else.

    2. JSJay Shetty56:11

       Yeah. Do you have any cheat days or any-

    3. BJBryan Johnson56:13

       I don't. No, I think-

    4. JSJay Shetty56:14

       Not a single one?

    5. BJBryan Johnson56:15

       No. Now the idea of eating a piece of pizza or a whole pizza or like a donut or something just makes me sick, because I'm going to do it. There'll be like five seconds of maybe enjoyment, and then you've got like an entire day of misery. You feel sick, you feel lethargic, your sleep is going... Like, I've just ruined my sleep. I feel awful about myself. Like, the cost is so high, I just don't wanna do it. The other day I ate a potato chip. My friend was like, "Just have one"

    6. JSJay Shetty56:45

       [laughs]

    7. BJBryan Johnson56:45

       And it, it tasted like gasoline. Like, uh, I'm so surprised. Like, we're just so normalized to this, these processed foods, we can no longer taste it. But it was just wild to go back in time and experience it new.

    8. JSJay Shetty56:58

       It is interesting how quickly your taste buds rewire-

    9. BJBryan Johnson57:01

       Yeah

    10. JSJay Shetty57:01

        ... when you kinda disconnect from some of these foods. I've definitely done like long refined sugar-free fasts for, you know, I don't know, the longest one I've ever done, but definitely a few months.

    11. BJBryan Johnson57:13

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty57:14

        And I feel like after that, as someone who grew up addicted to chocolate, what you were talking about when you grew up in a family where-

    13. BJBryan Johnson57:21

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty57:21

        ... sodas and drinks, it was like, for me, I grew up in a family where all we ate was chocolate all day.

    15. BJBryan Johnson57:25

        Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty57:26

        And so for me to go back to s- there are days when I'm like, "That does not taste anywhere near as I thought it would, good as it was gonna taste" Something that I loved and adored before-

    17. BJBryan Johnson57:36

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty57:36

        ... has kinda lost it, and you just notice how quickly... Do you have any data on how quick it takes to rewire your taste buds? Because I feel like that is such a interesting feeling.

    19. BJBryan Johnson57:47

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty57:47

        Because now it's not like you're even fighting it. Like you said, when you taste it, you're like, "God, I didn't even want that" That's a really fascinating place to be at. So have you seen any data on how quick we can rewire our taste buds?

    21. BJBryan Johnson57:56

        Within days.

    22. JSJay Shetty57:57

        Days?

    23. BJBryan Johnson57:58

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty57:58

        Wow.

    25. BJBryan Johnson57:58

        It's, it's very, very fast.

    26. JSJay Shetty57:59

        Right.

    27. BJBryan Johnson58:00

        That's the, that's the thing about being human is like if you take any given circumstance and you say like, um, "What do I abhor? What do I, what am I repulsed by? What ki- what do I find unimaginable? What..." You know, take any kind of vector and you imagine that that is an impossible thing for you to be or do.

    28. JSJay Shetty58:19

        Mm.

    29. BJBryan Johnson58:20

        And then if you

21. 58:21 – 59:19

    Rewire Your Taste Buds

    1. BJBryan Johnson58:21

       actually got in that circumstance and you did it for a few days, you may find yourself renormalized to the exact thing you just found unimaginable. Like, we humans can adapt to anything and almost instantaneously. It's just crazy. And so like most of the time the realization is just like we're trapped in this idea that we found how... we've somehow found truth, and that anything else is non-truth, is not truth. But like it's, like we can adapt to any reality like that.

    2. JSJay Shetty58:50

       Mm.

    3. BJBryan Johnson58:50

       It's like we've seen that again and again, so.

    4. JSJay Shetty58:51

       Do you, are you someone who gets stressed if you walk into the room and you sense that the moisture's off or the air quality's off, or you ate something? Like, I... How do you react to that?

    5. BJBryan Johnson59:04

       I've had enough cycle times now with measurement where I can feel things intuitively. I can feel my HRV. I absolutely know my heart rate at any given moment. Yeah, so I definitely, my sensory awareness has dramatically increased.

    6. JSJay Shetty59:17

       And then how do you react

22. 59:19 – 1:02:36

    Sensitivity to Air Quality

    1. JSJay Shetty59:19

       to that? Because you can't control the humidity in every room or wherever you are, for example.

    2. BJBryan Johnson59:24

       Yeah. It's okay. Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty59:25

       Right. Yeah, yeah. So you're not, you're not, you don't... You're not like, "Oh my God," like, "this is gonna set me..." Like, you don't, you don't have that reaction.

    4. BJBryan Johnson59:32

       Uh, I'm playing the power laws.

    5. JSJay Shetty59:34

       Yeah.

    6. BJBryan Johnson59:34

       So that's why like last week when being with friends, I wanted to try a new thing, go to bed early, get your deep sleep, stay up and have fun, go back to bed. Like, it's okay. So really trying to be adaptive.

    7. JSJay Shetty59:44

       So I love that. Let's talk about that, because I think that what's interesting is to live a highly intentional life, but then to be adaptable and know where the wiggle room is.

    8. BJBryan Johnson59:55

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty59:56

       That seems like a great way to live, and it also seems like something that isn't usually possible. What we usually see is... And this isn't just to do with health, but with anything, we usually pe- see people who are control freaks- Where, like, everything has to be super controlled, and as soon as one control is off, they freak out. And that's not a great way to live, whether it's business, health, marriage, whatever it may be. Or you see the opposite, where someone has no rules whatsoever. They just do what they want when they want, and life kinda goes on, and we all know where that ends up. So how have you managed to create that mindset that allows you to have space, have time, and then live a really regimented, disciplined life?

    10. BJBryan Johnson1:00:35

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:00:35

        'Cause I like that a lot.

    12. BJBryan Johnson1:00:36

        Yeah. I mean, my, my mentality is that I'm really motivated by being respected by those that exist in the 25th century. Like, when they read about this time and place, I, I would like them to say that, um, I saw something that was invisible, uh, that was incredibly hard to do, that the, the predictable pushback from the status quo was, you know, pretty violent. And so I'm really trying to demonstrate the future of being human. I'm not trying to be normal. I'm not trying to, uh, bow to status quo. I'm not trying to fit in. I'm not trying to soothe. I'm trying to say the speed at which technology is traveling, we're basically probably evolving, like, you know, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years equivalent in months of time.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:01:28

        Mm.

    14. BJBryan Johnson1:01:28

        Like, our speed of evolution is increasing rapidly, and so I'm trying to anticipate where we want to be, uh, and not be a l- a lagging indicator of status quo. And so in my mindset, I really don't care what anyone right now who lives has to say about this.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:01:45

        Mm.

    16. BJBryan Johnson1:01:46

        I don't. I just really am entirely in that future head space. And so that really, I find to be liberating because, like, so much of our society, you're tethered to social expectation and the punishment of what accompanies violating that expectation. And, uh, I just found it... I had to come up with a mental model to, like, try to fully explore this without that tethering.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:02:09

        Are you, are you scared of dying?

    18. BJBryan Johnson1:02:11

        No.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:02:12

        What, what's your relationship like with death? What are your thoughts about it?

    20. BJBryan Johnson1:02:15

        For me, it's kind of an interesting conversation because we humans do not know what happens after death. No one knows. Now, you can imagine what happens. You can tell a story about what happens. You can, you can hypothesize what happens. You... Like, all those things are true, but it's an unknowable thing. And

23. 1:02:36 – 1:05:58

    Are You Scared of Dying?

    1. BJBryan Johnson1:02:36

       yet, that doesn't stop us from speaking with unbridled confidence on what will be. And to me, it really shows that we humans, we don't want to die. Like, desperately, we do not wanna die. And we want to try to address this omnipresent concern of, of what exists after life, what is death. And so I try to be very sober-minded to say, like, "I don't know, and no human knows." Therefore, the thing I value most is that, that existence is the highest virtue. Whereas before, be- when death is always inevitable, you just naturally soothe yourself with these stories. And what I'm saying now is, like, actually, we might be able to do something about this that we never could before. And therefore, uh, we can have a re-imagination of what existence truly is.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:03:27

       Yeah. Yeah. The, the Eastern perspective's always fascinated me with how our consciousness is eternal, and the body's temporary, and therefore, that desire to live forever comes from this-

    3. BJBryan Johnson1:03:38

       Yeah

    4. JSJay Shetty1:03:38

       ... very innate truth that we are eternal. We're not-

    5. BJBryan Johnson1:03:42

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty1:03:42

       ... limited in the way the body is limited to some degree, I guess. And, uh, it's always been fascinating to me how the desire to live is a very natural one actually.

    7. BJBryan Johnson1:03:52

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:03:52

       And, and it's uniform.

    9. BJBryan Johnson1:03:54

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:03:55

        But it's almost one that we are scared to ask. There's a lot of fear around even talking about death. It feels morbid.

    11. BJBryan Johnson1:04:03

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:04:03

        It feels... When it's the most... It's, you know-

    13. BJBryan Johnson1:04:05

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty1:04:05

        ... guaranteed and the most common thing that will... It's the number one-

    15. BJBryan Johnson1:04:08

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty1:04:08

        ... thing that will happen to everyone who's born.

    17. BJBryan Johnson1:04:10

        It's like if you tell... Like, let's just take an entrepreneur and say, like, "If you, like, show up to do this thing, and you're just present and do, like, some minimal amount of work, you're going to become a billionaire."

    18. JSJay Shetty1:04:22

        Mm.

    19. BJBryan Johnson1:04:23

        Uh, like, that's the prize. But in reality, y- you have to be an entrepreneur that's like to defy all odds-

    20. JSJay Shetty1:04:31

        Mm-hmm

    21. BJBryan Johnson1:04:31

        ... and work a crazy amount, uh, to achieve some level of success. And I feel like the death narrative that we have as a species is it's kind of the same of like, you get this afterlife with this minimal set of effort. And so basically, it sacks people of inviting them to work hard for existence.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:04:52

        Mm-hmm.

    23. BJBryan Johnson1:04:52

        Because it's already guaranteed. And so to me, it has this really negative consequence where it's like, "Oh, taken care of," therefore, you can have poor health habits. You can risk your life. You can do these things. So I think we're really on this bigger timescale. We're wrapped up in this moment where our... We should be working a lot harder and care a lot more about our existence, about the planet's health, about our kids' health, about societal's health. And we're lackadaisical because we have some si- sort of idea that somehow in the afterlife things are sorted.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:05:28

        Mm.

    25. BJBryan Johnson1:05:28

        So I think it really weakens us as a species.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:05:30

        From the point of view of data, what's different about what men need to do for longevity and what women need to do for longevity?

    27. BJBryan Johnson1:05:37

        We have much more in common than we do differences.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:05:39

        Mm.

    29. BJBryan Johnson1:05:40

        So a lot of people immediately jump to... They'll see my protocol, and they'll say, "Well, c- there certainly there has to be personalizations that, you know, are done from you versus me or whatever." And, um, I would draw their attention back to say we have much more in common than you think. Like, instead of saying, like, "What are the major commonalities?" They immediately

24. 1:05:58 – 1:08:07

    Prolonging Longevity

    1. BJBryan Johnson1:05:58

       go to differences.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:05:58

       Mm.

    3. BJBryan Johnson1:05:58

       And so what we have in common is sleep works great for men and women. Right? And eating vegetables, right? Also great for men and women. And again, you can look at the data. Um, exercise, great. And so there's nuances on the exercise of, like, around a woman's cycle. So yes, there's nuances, but generally speaking, the basics of health, of life health practices are good for both males and females.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:06:21

       Mm.

    5. BJBryan Johnson1:06:21

       And so then the nuances like you... Uh, on my proto- I have a protocol I've published publicly. There's nuances of a woman's cycle, uh, what to do around that for both food and exercise. So I'd... So yeah, those are details, uh, I've listed out. But generally speaking, the benefits are in the power laws of health and wellness, of getting the, the basics right, and less so the tail things which people focus on.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:06:43

       Yeah, yeah. And how does someone lower their inflammation, which is known as, like, the silent killer?

    7. BJBryan Johnson1:06:48

       So my, my body, for example, has barely levels of any detectable inflammation. Like, it's almost entirely, uh, gone.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:06:55

       I want that. That sounds amazing.

    9. BJBryan Johnson1:06:56

       Yeah. Do you know your inflammation level?

    10. JSJay Shetty1:06:58

        I don't know my level. Recently I've got a blood test coming up again, so I need to check it out with Darshan. So, but, um, yeah, it's always been one of those things that's been hard for me to manage.

    11. BJBryan Johnson1:07:07

        Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So you're looking, uh, probably at your HSCRP.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:07:12

        Mm-hmm.

    13. BJBryan Johnson1:07:12

        Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it has to do with diet a lot. Sleep. Yeah, it's like, again, like, back to the basics of life and then stress.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:07:21

        Mm-hmm.

    15. BJBryan Johnson1:07:21

        Yeah. So it kind of always comes back to the basics.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:07:24

        Yeah. And, and what are people getting wrong in their daily schedule with stress that they could easily change to kind of lower that? Because like we talked about earlier, not everyone's in a position to take care of their own schedule-

    17. BJBryan Johnson1:07:37

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty1:07:37

        ... build their thing. They may be working a job in a certain way. Like, what are some things people can do to manage that throughout the day?

    19. BJBryan Johnson1:07:43

        Yeah. Uh, first is sleep. So, like, sleep is a superpower to manage stress. I know that when I'm well-rested-

    20. JSJay Shetty1:07:51

        Mm

    21. BJBryan Johnson1:07:51

        ... if a stressful event happens, it just kind of... I can brush it off. If I'm not well-rested, it feels very painful, and I react very strongly. So sleep is probably the most powerful thing to manage stress.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:08:02

        Mm-hmm.

    23. BJBryan Johnson1:08:03

        Two is, you know, if, if you're exercising and feel well, it also lowers,

25. 1:08:07 – 1:11:00

    Ways to Manage Stress

    1. BJBryan Johnson1:08:07

       uh, like, stress response. Uh, then a balanced diet. Every single-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:08:10

       It's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same stuff. Yeah, yeah.

    3. BJBryan Johnson1:08:10

       The same stuff. Like, you get those power laws in place.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:08:13

       Yeah, agreed.

    5. BJBryan Johnson1:08:14

       Um, and a lot of people, like, when they can't get those power laws in place, they want to take a pill or, like... And so I realize that's how a lot of people think. I do want to urge people, like, get those habits in place.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:08:24

       Yeah.

    7. BJBryan Johnson1:08:25

       They are the most robust, highly per- performative things you can do.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:08:28

       What does your one-hour workout look like?

    9. BJBryan Johnson1:08:30

       Uh, it's cardio, weights, balance, and flexibility.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:08:34

        Okay. Yeah, very balanced.

    11. BJBryan Johnson1:08:36

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:08:36

        Yeah. What, what I love about everything you're saying is that it's, it's things that... It's almost like some of it we know, some of it-

    13. BJBryan Johnson1:08:43

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty1:08:43

        ... we're aware of. The biggest challenge, I guess, when it comes to all of this is discipline. Like, discipline. If, if there was one word, what word would you choose? If there's one thing that you said is at the core of everything you've talked about today.

    15. BJBryan Johnson1:08:57

        Yeah. It's systems.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:08:59

        Systems, yeah.

    17. BJBryan Johnson1:08:59

        Yeah. So, like, if you design... If you say, like, "I go to bed at this time of day every single day," you build your life around it. If you say, "I work out in the morning right when I wake up every day and never change it." So the thing that most people do is they leave the decision to their willpower.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:09:14

        Mm.

    19. BJBryan Johnson1:09:14

        They say, "Do I feel like it or not?"

    20. JSJay Shetty1:09:16

        Mm.

    21. BJBryan Johnson1:09:16

        And then in that moment it's like, "Nah, I'm gonna skip today because, like, I've been working really hard. I need to rest anyways." Like, you rationalize it in whatever way. So just build systems. I basically, when I started doing this, like when I came here today, uh, I put your address into my navigation system, and I was like, "Take me there." I didn't, like, memorize the streets, right? And so I trusted the algorithm that had more data than I had. And so I proposed this four years ago when I started. I said, "Can we build an algorithm that takes better care of me than I can myself?"

    22. JSJay Shetty1:09:43

        Mm.

    23. BJBryan Johnson1:09:43

        Like, just measure my body, put it into a computational system and pair the science, can... Then tell me what to do.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:09:49

        Yeah.

    25. BJBryan Johnson1:09:49

        I want it to do, like, uh, navigation for my body.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:09:53

        Mm-hmm.

    27. BJBryan Johnson1:09:53

        And that's what we've done. So I basically... I do not make decisions with my mind.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:09:56

        Yes.

    29. BJBryan Johnson1:09:57

        The algorithm does all the things for me. And so that's just, like, I feel like inevitable that we humans will not do this weird thing of make decisions on a daily basis of what to eat, when to exercise. It will just be done by an algorithm.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:10:07

        Yeah.
26. 1:11:00 – 1:15:37

    You Are not Your Thoughts

    1. JSJay Shetty1:11:00

       even when I felt sluggish.

    2. BJBryan Johnson1:11:01

       Yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:11:01

       That's actually gonna be the best time. And so I love the answer of systems, but I think it's kind of programming the mind to be committed to the feeling after you complete a system, never how you're gonna feel before.

    4. BJBryan Johnson1:11:12

       Yeah, that's true. And, like, I, I learned this when I was depressed. You know, my mind was like, "Hey, you should commit suicide. Like, life is awful. You're never going to feel hope again. Die." And, like, it was just on repeat saying that, and I learned, like... It was the biggest breakthrough in my depression was when I learned I am not my thoughts. Such a simple concept, but, like, you see it land, it's like, okay, this came from somewhere, but it's not me. And so even now, like, uh, do I want to work out or not? I don't care what my brain says

    5. JSJay Shetty1:11:39

       Mm.

    6. BJBryan Johnson1:11:39

       It is an unreliable source of information

    7. JSJay Shetty1:11:42

       Mm.

    8. BJBryan Johnson1:11:43

       Systems are a more reliable form of information. It's like set up your system, and like you're saying, you know if you do the system, you're gonna be happy.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:11:50

       Mm-hmm.

    10. BJBryan Johnson1:11:51

        I just never trust my mind to tell me what I, what I do and don't wanna do.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:11:54

        Yeah. And what's interesting about that is a lot of people will say, "Well, are you just not ignoring your emotions and how you feel?" What I find is the opposite, that the system makes you better at dealing with any emotion that then comes up.

    12. BJBryan Johnson1:12:05

        Exactly right.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:12:05

        So it's not that you don't have emotions and you don't have feelings and you don't experience stress or anxiety, but the system being in place actually just gave you all of this willpower, going back to your point. And I think that's where we go wrong 'cause I think we've kind of got to this place in society where it's like, well, how you feel is the reality-

    14. BJBryan Johnson1:12:22

        Yes

    15. JSJay Shetty1:12:22

        ... is the truth. And it's like, whoa, if I just listen to how I feel all the time, I'll probably never do anything that's good for me.

    16. BJBryan Johnson1:12:29

        Yes.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:12:29

        I'll probably eat lots of stuff that's bad for me, and I'll never choose the thing that's right for me, and I'll keep doing what's wrong for me because it's easier.

    18. BJBryan Johnson1:12:36

        Exactly.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:12:36

        And my mind is constantly trying to get me to do-

    20. BJBryan Johnson1:12:39

        Yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty1:12:39

        ... what's easier.

    22. BJBryan Johnson1:12:39

        Exactly.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:12:40

        And what's easier is rarely good for me.

    24. BJBryan Johnson1:12:42

        Entirely.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:12:42

        Yeah. I find that to be the... I mean, that feels like it's it. Like what's good for me is not easy, and what's easy is not good for me.

    26. BJBryan Johnson1:12:51

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:12:51

        And what's uncomfortable is probably the right decision, and what's comfortable is probably the wrong decision. What did it take you to program yourself to say yes to that algorithm?

    28. BJBryan Johnson1:13:01

        Like two things. Like one, when I built my previous company, Braintree Venmo, we would build version one of our software and then version two and version three. We never showed up, and the software was like, "Guys, nah, I don't feel like doing my work today. I'm not gonna perform." Like the software just performed in its more- most robust way possible. It was very reliable.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:13:21

        Mm.

    30. BJBryan Johnson1:13:21

        Now, there are bugs, and we can fix the bug, but then whereas me, as a system of intelligence, just like software, I would make all the same errors every day.
27. 1:15:37 – 1:19:37

    Health Can Lead to Happiness

    1. BJBryan Johnson1:15:37

       kinda map everything back to status, power, sex. Yeah. It's like, guess it's like the goals that society has.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:15:43

       Mm.

    3. BJBryan Johnson1:15:43

       And the i- if the imagination is that if existence is the highest virtue-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:15:49

       Mm-hmm

    5. BJBryan Johnson1:15:49

       ... like we want to hold onto this with everything we have, those other objectives become secondary considerations-

    6. JSJay Shetty1:15:56

       Mm

    7. BJBryan Johnson1:15:56

       ... but s- but subject to our own well-being.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:15:59

       Mm.

    9. BJBryan Johnson1:16:00

       And we just haven't made that transition yet.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:16:01

        Yeah.

    11. BJBryan Johnson1:16:02

        Uh, but, but yeah, what do you think?

    12. JSJay Shetty1:16:03

        I always try and think about it from, from, you know, my knowledge base of, of Eastern literature and philosophy, and it's... There's, there's four archetypes in Eastern philosophy, and they all have different goals within a society.

    13. BJBryan Johnson1:16:18

        Yeah.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:16:19

        And one archetype aims for knowledge. One aims for power and control and influence. One aims for resources and wealth. And one aims for comfort and stability and security.

    15. BJBryan Johnson1:16:32

        Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:16:33

        And I think that in times like these, you become pretty much only two of them-

    17. BJBryan Johnson1:16:39

        Mm

    18. JSJay Shetty1:16:39

        ... which is you either aim for security, stability, and comfort or you aim for resources, accumulation, power, and control. And the thirst and pursuit for growth and evolution and improvement has become kind of bottom of the pile.

    19. BJBryan Johnson1:16:58

        Mm.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:16:59

        It's the hardest.

    21. BJBryan Johnson1:17:00

        Mm.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:17:01

        And it's the most powerful, but it requires so much. And like you said, because we've been wired to either want to remain the same or want to achieve in a very-

    23. BJBryan Johnson1:17:12

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty1:17:12

        ... external way, growth becomes something unseen, right? Like right now, as I see you, I can't see that you're 18 years old. I can't see that you're any of these things. And so then I'm like, well, that's not important then because life's based on what I see.

    25. BJBryan Johnson1:17:28

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:17:28

        And that's obviously not a healthy way to live or the right way to live or maybe it is for some people. But it's, it's definitely not an accurate way to live-

    27. BJBryan Johnson1:17:36

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty1:17:36

        ... because what you see is not necessarily what's true. And so-

    29. BJBryan Johnson1:17:40

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty1:17:41

        ... I think we've become a very visible surface level society.
28. 1:19:37 – 1:22:25

    Is Reverse Aging Possible?

    1. BJBryan Johnson1:19:37

       Yeah.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:19:37

       But for us to actually reverse aging is probably more likely and helpful to us in the long run as well.

    3. BJBryan Johnson1:19:44

       Yeah. Everyone, yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:19:45

       Yeah.

    5. BJBryan Johnson1:19:45

       If you look at this from like the, the biggest timescales, like a quick review of history. Buddha was like, "Hey, like there's some suffering with life, and the best way to approach this is to detach yourself." You know, this whole Eightfold Path. And then Confucius had this idea of familial relationships within community. Muhammad said we should submit to God. Jesus said, "I am the Son of God." Adam Smith said there's this invisible hand of markets and capitalism and these systems that can emerge. And then America was like, "We, the people." And Karl Marx was like, "Actually, it's class warfare." And you know, it's like we have these big ideologies that have shaped our reality, but really humanity is run by a very small number of things.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:20:29

       Mm-hmm.

    7. BJBryan Johnson1:20:29

       Like political structures, economic structures, ideological structures. And in this moment, we're experiencing a radical change of technology, and when that happens, we humans want to find things that are useful to our objectives. And so we say like, "Hey capitalism, can you help out? Hey democracy. Hey Christianity. Hey Islam." Like we kind of search and say, "Who has answers?"

    8. JSJay Shetty1:20:53

       Mm-hmm.

    9. BJBryan Johnson1:20:53

       And right now, every system society has fails to answer the fundamental question, what do we do as a species?

    10. JSJay Shetty1:21:02

        Mm-hmm.

    11. BJBryan Johnson1:21:02

        Like what, what do we do as individuals? Like when AI is emergent, when we're building super intelligence, what do I do and what do we do?

    12. JSJay Shetty1:21:09

        Mm-hmm.

    13. BJBryan Johnson1:21:10

        And no existing structure can answer that. That's true. Like you look throughout history, these ideologies largely emerge in response to technological change.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:21:18

        Mm-hmm.

    15. BJBryan Johnson1:21:19

        It happens, and we say like, "We need help with a new ideological structure." And so that's what Don't Die is, is Don't Die is basically a meant answer, like be the answer. And that's why I think it can become on par with the major ideologies in a few years' time.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:21:33

        Mm-hmm.

    17. BJBryan Johnson1:21:33

        That this is the new way we structure society.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:21:36

        Yeah. Bryan, thank you so much for your time today. It's been, uh, it's been really illuminating and, uh, fascinating to talk to you, and I'm hoping that we get to hang out more because, uh, definitely share a lot of values and share a lot of, uh, desires for humanity and for each other. It... for ourselves. And so I hope I get to learn a lot more from you truly.

    19. BJBryan Johnson1:21:55

        Yeah. Likewise.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:21:55

        Uh, I'm very excited to learn from you. Uh, we end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Although I know I'm gonna break the rules because I'm, I'm fascinated. Uh, but Bryan Johnson, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best health or longevity advice you've ever heard or received?

    21. BJBryan Johnson1:22:17

        Build habits.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:22:19

        Second question, what is the worst health or longevity advice you've ever heard or received?

    23. BJBryan Johnson1:22:23

        Cheat days.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:22:24

        Why

29. 1:22:25 – 1:27:27

    Bryan on Final Five

    1. JSJay Shetty1:22:25

       are cheat days bad for us?

    2. BJBryan Johnson1:22:27

       They teach you bad habits. They are... They cr- inflict damage upon the body. They set unrealistic expectations. It's a bad mimetic all the way down.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:22:40

       Uh, question number three, what do you do for fun?

    4. BJBryan Johnson1:22:43

       Uh, I love outdoor adventure. So I, I drove a dogsled in the Arctic. I raced in the, in the Moroccan desert. I went to a volcano in Iceland. So I'm rich with irony, where I'm the most Don't Die person in human history, and I also love to play and adventure.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:23:00

       I love that. Uh, I'm gonna add a 3B. Do you drink coffee?

    6. BJBryan Johnson1:23:05

       I do not drink coffee.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:23:06

       Why don't you drink coffee?

    8. BJBryan Johnson1:23:08

       My emotions and intellect now are so steady from high-quality sleep and a good diet and routine exercise that anything that creates a roller coaster of change I avoid. And so I don't do caffeine. I don't do nicotine. No stimulants. And my mood is just stable all day long, and it's beautiful.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:23:27

       Should people avoid drinking coffee?

    10. BJBryan Johnson1:23:29

        Uh, some people do very well with it. So I'm just sensitive to caffeine. So I think a lot of people do well. Do your thing. Again, like all my responses, do you and follow the data.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:23:39

        Question number four, um, I recently invested in a company called Function Health-

    12. BJBryan Johnson1:23:44

        Mm-hmm

    13. JSJay Shetty1:23:44

        ... because I was Upset about the idea that getting great data was hard, and I wanted to make it more accessible to lots of people. And so the tens of thousands of people that are using Functional Health now have access to 200 data sets that they didn't have before through a blood test made really simple. What other great data tools do you believe in that you recommend to other people to get more data? Because I think a lot of this is because you just never know.

    14. BJBryan Johnson1:24:10

        Exactly. Yeah, we, with Blueprint, we have, I think, the most robust measurement protocol in the world. It's, uh, it's blood, it's your speed of aging, 11 organ ages, a full body scan, and microplastics. So it's basically a measurement profile that gives you the same value as like a $25,000 executive physical at a fraction of the price. So we've tried to make full body measurement, uh, the most affordable and best in the world.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:24:36

        Uh, fifth and final question we ask is to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

    16. BJBryan Johnson1:24:44

        To not follow laws.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:24:45

        [laughs] Which ones are you, which laws are you taking out?

    18. BJBryan Johnson1:24:49

        All laws.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:24:49

        [laughs] Wait, wait, how far does that tre- how far does that, that go?

    20. BJBryan Johnson1:24:55

        To reframe it from, uh, "don't do" to "how to."

    21. JSJay Shetty1:24:59

        Mm.

    22. BJBryan Johnson1:25:00

        So society would be instructions on how to. We would have enough alignment within us and among us that "not do" would be a thing of the past because we just wouldn't be motivated to do bad behaviors to self and others, and it would be a relic of the past that we'd be amazed looking back that humans did things that would be un- that would be harmful to self or others.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:25:27

        You host Don't Die Dinners. Uh, you've had a friend and guest of the show, Kim Kardashian, at one of the dinners. What does a Don't Die Dinner look like? What happens at these dinners?

    24. BJBryan Johnson1:25:36

        We can't tell you. [laughs]

    25. JSJay Shetty1:25:38

        [laughs]

    26. BJBryan Johnson1:25:39

        Crazy things. Uh, yeah, we, um, people who attend will say it's, uh, the most consequential conversation of their life. So we spend two hours. I s- uh, we do a bunch of age tests to just introduce the idea that you can measure biological age. Then we serve everybody food, and then we have a two-hour discussion led by five thought experiments, and everybody participates. So everybody talks, everybody engages. Uh, I'm the moderator, and so it's very snappy, but people leave, uh... Even years later, people still message me and say, "I just can't stop thinking about these ideas." So it's really a transformative time together.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:26:20

        Yeah. So you do get to eat.

    28. BJBryan Johnson1:26:22

        I don't eat.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:26:23

        Yeah. [laughs] But everyone else does.

    30. BJBryan Johnson1:26:24

        My guests eat. I don't.

Episode duration: 1:27:27