"This SECRET Was Kept By Monks" - How To Achieve SELF MASTERY | Gauranga Das & Jay Shetty

Gauranga Das 0:00 Problems in life may not diminish, but our consciousness can rise much above those so-called problems so that the entire perspective changes.

Jay Shetty 0:09 I want, I wanna start with talking to you about how what people... I've mentioned about you before when I've spoken about you, but people may not have as a perception of monks. I think people often think of monks as either we know nothing about them, or we think maybe they're lazy and they don't wanna do any work, or we think maybe they're uneducated and they didn't have another path, or maybe we think they were very religious growing up. But when I met you, what I got fascinated by is that you didn't really fit into any of those categories. You were extremely educated. You are extremely educated. You come from a spiritual background, but it's not that you were, you were a normal person at college growing up. I just wanna hear a bit about how you decided that this path was right for you. Because when I heard what you'd done, I was so impressed that someone of your caliber who had everything that me and my friends were seeking, were able to give it up so easily for this life. So what brought you to this stage? Tell me about what you wanted to become growing up, and then why you became this.

Gauranga Das 1:16 Well, thanks, Jay, for asking that question. Um, yes, it's true that as I was in IIT, I did not have this idea of becoming a monk. But I came across a few incidents, and, uh, those were some of the turning points in my life. One of my friends, who was pretty well-to-do in terms of education and studies, he once attempted a suicide, and that really shook me up. And then for the first time, I started understanding that life is much more than just achievements, but there is also a feeling of experience which each one of us is processing from within. So we are improving technology, we are improving systems, but what about the human experience which is happening behind those systems and behind those machines? On the other hand, I also found that in my class there were some other students who had failed in quite a few subjects, but they were not at all affected and they were going around the campus as if nothing has happened. So I was pretty bewildered because I thought those were the ones who should be in anxiety. And when I asked them, they would respond by saying that our philosophy in life is simple: to enter the college is our job, to take us out of the college is college's job.

Jay Shetty 2:38 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 2:39 So why should we be worried?

Jay Shetty 2:40 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 2:41 So I realized that beyond all the various externals, technologies, systems, that's the talk about GDP and everything, there is something which is not described in great detail in any of our textbooks, and that is the perceptions and the experiences which each one of us have as a soul. And that really made me to seek answers in books which are beyond the regular ones. And then I came across the Bhagavad Gita, and then I started getting answers to one of the most important principles in life. Circumstances are beyond our control, and we have limited control over our circumstances, but we have unlimited control over our consciousness. And therefore, I thought that was pretty deep. When an airplane flies, it takes off and as soon as it takes off, you see the same buildings look pretty insignificant. So we may not have control over the size of the buildings, but we have control over how high we can go. And similarly, problems in life may not diminish, but our consciousness can rise much above those so-called problems so that the entire perspective changes. So when I read the Gita, I realized that one of the core principles to remain enthusiastic, positive, full of enthusiasm and energy in your whole life is the flexibility and the agility with which you can choose different lenses at any particular given moment. Because sometimes a lens can make an object look very tiny and another lens can make the same object look very huge and appear to be extremely close to your eyes. And there are other lenses which do not magnify at all. So therefore, depending on the situation and circumstance, how can we choose those lenses is something which is described in great detail in the ancient Vedic wisdom. And I got drawn to that. I started reading it and I didn't realize that my journey will take me one day to London so that our paths cross.

Jay Shetty 5:13 [laughs] Yeah, that's so beautifully explained and thank you for sharing that because I think so many people who will be listening and watching today, so many of them may have that experience at college too. That people are facing so much stress and anxiety. People are trying to become something that they don't want to be, but maybe their parents want them to be it, or maybe their friends or their peers think that that is what su- success is in society. How did you, when you decided to become a monk, I'm guessing that not everyone around you was celebrating. Like it may have been a tough choice or a tough decision. How were you able to make this tough step? Because even if people are not becoming monks, everyone sometimes has to make choices in life where people around you may not agree. And how were you able to do that? And I know you do that now as well in your work. So many times you're having to make tough decisions where everyone may not agree with you. How did you do that in the first instance of becoming a monk?

Gauranga Das 6:13 Well, uh, to be honest, uh, I was also not very sure whether, you know, I would be able to sustain this path because practically nobody in my family has ever done it before. And, uh, I was thinking, how will society respond to this and whether I'm making the right decision. And I was thinking, how should I process this moving forward? But then an incident happened which completely changed my perspective. I was on the road traveling with one other senior monk, he was driving me, and we were on the highway, and this was November of 1993. And then as we were moving on the highway, our vehicle hit against another truck, and there was an accident on the highway, and our car got badly smashed. Luckily, in spite of being injured quite heavily, I survived. It was a very transformative moment for me because I saw my whole body filled with blood, and the doctor spent practically five to six hours in the operation theater taking out the glass pieces which had entered into my body. And then as I was recovering, I started contemplating that, well, as far as my life is concerned, even an inch here or there would have been the end of my life, and I'm only twenty-two, and I could as well be dead by now. But looks like I've been given another chance. So whether someone in society or anyone else connected, whatever may be their, uh, feelings or background, whatever their responses may be, today I am alive and I've been given a second chance. Let me use this second chance to do something great to serve others. And therefore, I decided that I will use this opportunity, every breath which has been given to me back, as a second chance, as an opportunity to share and spread this message which has benefited me so much. So there are moments like this where you are practically hopeless, and then a small window of hope opens up, and then you see everything from a different perspective. So for me, it was that moment which gave me that conviction to sustain this determination.

Jay Shetty 9:00 I love that. I think we all have such similar moments in our life, whether they're near-death experiences like yours, maybe not as extreme, but I think everyone who's listening and watching right now can relate to the fact that we all get these choices in life. Sometimes it's a second chance, sometimes it's an opening or an opportunity, and we at that point have a choice to make whether we want to carry on living unconsciously and without thought or without purpose, or whether we want to live with deeper meaning and purpose like you chose. And I mean, you've really lived up to that because I remember when I met you, and even now, like today, we're sitting in an eco village that of course there's been a community behind it, but you've led the development of. There's the incredible food distribution work that you've definitely been involved in spearheading, the incredible work that's happening with the community in Mumbai. You know, you've been a part of affecting thousands and thousands and millions of lives, and I think you've definitely lived up to that incredible commitment that you took on.

Gauranga Das 10:04 Thank you. Thank you so much.

Jay Shetty 10:05 It's, uh, it's really special actually, because I think that it's one thing to say those things, but to actually authentically live up to it. And I can see you're always challenging yourself to the next level. And I guess that's, that's what I love about our path of, of being a monk, is that, and I was speaking about this with Radhanath Swami too, that we have self and service. So you have your own personal meditation, you have your own personal prayer and your sadhana and your practices, and then you're going and extending yourself for the world.

Gauranga Das 10:39 Right.

Jay Shetty 10:40 And I feel like you've found a way of using all your talents in service of humanity. So it's not that you became a monk and thought, "Okay, now I need to let go of this." You've actually believed that the, the gifts that you've been given or the talents you've been given can actually be used to help serve the world, which I think is a really important thing. Could you share a bit on that-

Gauranga Das 11:02 Sure

Jay Shetty 11:02 ... perspective and why

Jay Shetty 11:03 that's important?

Gauranga Das 11:05 That's a beautiful question. The word monk in the Christian tradition, it comes from the root word in Latin, monchos, which basically means solitude. And typically monks would contemplate in solitude, but there are several monks who would also engage in community work. In the Buddhist tradition, the monks are known as bhikkhu or bhikshu. It has two meanings. One is beggar. Second is "Bhayam ikhati iti bhikkhu," which means one who's able to see and perceive danger. And that's a very interesting definition because monks were those who would lead their life understanding the knowledge And protect themselves and people from the danger of ignorance.

Jay Shetty 12:12 Mm.

Gauranga Das 12:14 In the Hindu tradition, monks are known as sannyasis. Sannyasi word consists of three parts, sam plus ni plus asa. So sam means totally, ni means to go down, and asa means to uproot. So sannyasi basically means one who is dedicating himself to completely uproot, go down and uproot all the negativities and negative desires from within. He does that for himself, and he helps others also in their journey. Another word in Sanskrit for monk is vairagi, and that also comes from a very beautiful tapestry of syllables, vi and raga. So vi means without and raga means attachment. Without attachment. And another meaning is vi plus ranj plus bhann, which means without color. So that is a very interesting definition which very much correlates to the question you are asking, which means that a sannyasi or a vairagi or a renunciant or a monk is one who can be fully engaged in productive activities which is of benefit to society but remains uncolored by any of that.

Jay Shetty 13:54 Wow.

Gauranga Das 13:55 He remains unaffected. So that is one of the interesting perspectives of vairagya or renunciation. Therefore, one of the core principles in the renounced order is absorption. Absorption I would divide in two important elements. One is the intention, and second is the action. Intention towards selfless service. Intention towards tireless service, and intention towards pleasing selflessly. So the two elements are intention and action. Monkhood is all about how we can selflessly please others and how we can tirelessly serve others. So the combination of this intention of selfless pleasing and tireless serving, it combines into giving an experience of total absorption, and that absorption is something which then expands in the form of compassion, and we include everyone else within that expanding circle of compassion and drown the whole world in peace and harmony.

Jay Shetty 15:26 Now you can see why I think he's amazing. That was brilliant. I've never heard that before. I've never heard the breakdown of the, the words of the definition of monk in different traditions. I think that's incredible to hear that. And I, and I think that's what I find so special about this path, is that it allows the ability to serve as well, not just to live in solitude. And, and that's why my next question is, I, I've written my m- book called Think Like a Monk, and the reason why I called it that is because I believe that you don't have to necessarily live like a monk to think like one, that it is a beautiful opportunity if you can, but we all, we both know that for ninety-nine p- point nine percent of the world, it's not going to be something that people are going to do. But I really believe that the mindset that a monk is encouraged to cultivate of service, of self-growth, of removing unwanted negative tendencies and implications, these are things that anyone can do, and in one sense, we all must do to live a peaceful and purposeful life. So I'd love to hear from you what you think thinking like a monk, in your opinion, is relevant for the modern people and modern world and for people like me now who also live in the city, have normal jobs, are married. How does thinking like a monk actually help that person?

Gauranga Das 16:46 Bhagavad Gita describes four principles which are extremely important for us to follow. One of the greatest challenges in remaining grounded in life is our inability to tolerate provoking situations. Whether one is a monk or one is in household life or in a corporate life, any kind of a relationship or doing any kind of activity or occupation, we are constantly being provoked. And therefore, Gita first talks about what is known as vega sahishnuta, which means we have to tolerate our urges. So I would say tolerating our urge to consume. The second principle is dvanda sahishnuta. Dvanda refers to duality. We have to tolerate various dualities which come in our life and remain humble and aware of the fact that we cannot control all situations. So therefore, we have to tolerate the urge to control. Third is paramata sahishnuta. We are so convinced about our opinions and our standpoint and our viewpoint that we want others also to buy into that. So many arguments, differences of opinion happen, relationships break down because we have a strong urge to convince others. So we have to tolerate that urge to convince others in certain situations. And the fourth is the urge to compete, and that is known as parotkarsha sahishnuta. Certain people will do much better than us in so many different ways. We should feel happy when we see that and remember that we have a role to play and we should resist the temptation and the urge to compete. So Gita focuses on how to elevate one's consciousness above these urges to control, to convince, to compete, and then we are actually able to rise above all of these and realize that, yes, I have a role to play to serve each and everyone in society to the best of my ability. And therefore, people who are engaged in society are in anxiety because many times they are trying to compare with others. And this comparison is a huge cancer of the mind. Today, every single day in India, three hundred and seventy-one people commit suicide.

Jay Shetty 20:08 Every?

Gauranga Das 20:09 Every day.

Jay Shetty 20:10 Every day.

Gauranga Das 20:11 Every single day. Three hundred million people across the world are experiencing mental health disorders. Every single day, eighteen billion cigarettes are being smoked. Six point seven five trillion cigarettes smoked every year. One billion people across the world experiencing addiction to cigarette smoking and unable to give up. So practically, each one of us have our internal challenges, and therefore, Gita focuses on first managing oneself, and then based on how we manage ourselves, we can manage others. And in my own experience, I have found that when people, irrespective of whatever occupation and profession they may be, when they cannot control these urges to consume, to control, to convince, to compete, then invariably they land up in so many difficulties, so many challenges. Social issues may not be described, emotional issues may not be described, personal issues may not be described in books of technology and management, but all of those issues have a major role to play in our overall experience as individuals and in our contribution to society. For example, the word family may not pop up anywhere in your management books or in your technology books. But today, because of a lack of emphasis on family values and because of inability for people to control their urges, so many differences of opinion are cropping up. A country like Luxembourg has a divorce rate of eighty-seven percent. Spain has a divorce rate of sixty-five percent. France has a divorce rate of fifty-five percent. Russia, fifty-one percent. America has a divorce rate of forty-six percent. The global divorce rate is forty-four percent. And therefore, it's very important for us to realize that there may not be much focus on instilling values in individuals and institutions as families. But if you do not focus and emphasize and invest in something, in due course of time, you'll lose it. And therefore, it was not empty rhetoric when people would say, "A family which prays together, stays together." And therefore, it's very important for us to introspect which way we are going as a society. How much are all these values crucial and critical for self-conservation and conserving relationships in society, conserving mental health and sanity in society? Because sometimes we may just think that these are not irrelevant because you cannot connect a dollar value to these values.

Jay Shetty 23:32 Absolutely. Yeah. No, that's a fantastic answer because I think that's the key thing that's missing, that we live in a world that believes if you actually chase the satisfaction of your urges, then that is freedom. That real success is actually following your urges, right? Whatever urge you have, if you want to compete with someone, compete. If you want to compare with someone, compare. If you want to say anything about someone, you can say it. And we see that as freedom. But actually, what you're suggesting and what the text is suggesting is that we actually gain real freedom when we don't need to do those things and we don't feel the need to do those things. So, so on that point, let's, let's extrapolate that because I think that's a really powerful point. What is the beginning or the step-by-step process of starting to create self-control? Because I think we see self-control as such a negative thing because it's seen as restrictive, or it's seen as, like almost being imprisoned. But actually, we're imprisoned by our desires. But that's still a-- it's like a massive paradigm shift for a lot of individuals today and even for myself when I first met you, and I first came to this. So explain why actually freedom comes from controlling your urges.

Gauranga Das 24:52 The Gita says, "Rāga-dveṣha-vimuktaistu viṣhayān indriyaiś charan. Ātmavashyair vidheyātmā prasādam adhigacchhati." This is a beautiful verse where Krishna says that freedom from all of our base desires comes when we are able to control our mind and follow a strict discipline of applying ourselves to follow a certain regimen. The word used is regulative principles of freedom. It may sound contradictory because self-control or discipline seems to have a connotation of being bound as a prisoner. But I'll give two examples. One, if someone is flying a kite, the question is, is the rope binding the movement of the kite, or the rope becomes an instrument for helping the kite fly higher? So if someone says, "Why is the kite bound? Let us cut the rope." So the kite may fly for some time, but then again it will crash. So the rope is binding the kite, but the rope should not be seen as limiting the movement of the kite, but facilitating the upliftment of the kite. Similarly, if you're caught in a traffic jam, you cannot move. And sometimes when the signals don't work or if the policeman is not there in sight, then there may be a huge traffic jam. But actually, the traffic laws and the signals facilitate proper movement of the vehicles. So it is not to be seen as limiting, but facilitating. Therefore, when we look at discipline, discipline is something which enables us to experience greater freedom.

Jay Shetty 27:06 Mm.

Gauranga Das 27:07 And that's what the Bhagavad Gita is talking about, the art of self-control, the art of mind control. And by practicing this, each one of us will actually experience an enhancement of our consciousness.

Jay Shetty 27:25 And I think we've all experienced that. I think everyone knows that when you, you feel like you're letting loose in the beginning, it feels good in the beginning. But then after a bit of time, it starts to feel really painful.

Gauranga Das 27:37 Yeah. Like for example, when the British were in India, they saw that at one point of time, maybe a century ago, the cobra population in Delhi was increasing. So they made a ruling. In order to control the cobra population, if anyone gets a dead cobra and submits to the government office, they'll get a financial reward. And they thought by announcing this, people would go out, get inspired to kill cobras, and the co-cobra population would be controlled. But then quite a few people got inspired to rear cobra farms.

Jay Shetty 28:20 Oh, wow.

Gauranga Das 28:20 And they started rearing cobra snakes in farms around Delhi. The cobra population started increasing. When the government realized that, they scrapped the scheme. The guys who were rearing the cobras became angry, released the cobras in the city.

Jay Shetty 28:34 No way.

Gauranga Das 28:35 And therefore, this is known as the cobra effect.

Jay Shetty 28:37 Oh, wow. I've never heard of that.

Gauranga Das 28:39 Where the proposed solution of a problem is worse than the original problem.

Jay Shetty 28:45 Mm.

Gauranga Das 28:46 And therefore, people are in distress, they are depressed, they are unhappy, and they decide, "Let me consume alcohol. Let me take drugs. Let me do this. Let me do that." So various momentary titillations which they provide to their mind and their senses may sometimes increase and enhance the problem than solve it.

Jay Shetty 29:14 Mm.

Gauranga Das 29:15 Therefore, the submission is, try to understand how the system is designed. Understand how these issues can be resolved in the best possible way within the design. And if there is a computer, it has a hard disk. If the hard disk gets a virus, then the computer just crashes. However beautiful the screen may look, but the hard disk is corrupted. Similarly, people invest a lot of time and energy building their body, building their physique, keeping themselves physically fit. But they fail to realize that a very important component of our system is the mind. And mind is like the hard disk for this computer-like body. And if sufficient investment is not made to keep the mind fit, then in due course of time, one will be overwhelmed with negativities. And therefore- This kind of mental fitness is what is known as meditation. So meditation is the gym where you actually perform various kinds of exercises to keep the mind fit.

Jay Shetty 30:40 Well, after all these years of meditating for so many hours per day and leading so many other meditation workshops yourself, what would you say for you has been the greatest gift that meditation has given you personally?

Gauranga Das 30:54 Everybody is looking for love. Many people think love is all about pleasure. But in response to your question on meditation, the greatest gift which meditation has bestowed upon me is a proper understanding of what is love. And I realized that love is about pain and not pleasure. In the Chaitanya Charitamrita, there is a beautiful description which defines love. Pragad premer ei svabhava achar nija dukha bighnadira na kari vichar. In this it is described that in every relationship there could be various problems. Scarcity, impediment, discomfort, unhappiness, change, uncertainty, lack of reciprocation and separation. All of these may happen in a relationship, but if the relationship continues, then that is defined as love. And as I described before, how to please selflessly the object of your love and how to serve tirelessly. And so in my experience, love is something which is extremely rare, extremely valuable and extremely difficult to process unless we are willing to put ourselves through a system of purification. And then when we purify ourselves, then lust which is like iron transforms into love which is like gold. So in my experience for several years, meditation has really given me an entrance into this arena of a totally new paradigm of what love is, which scriptures describe as devotional service. Service without any selfish considerations. I share this example that when we began our Govinda's restaurant in our Chowpatty temple many years ago, we decided that we will have pizza. And it was Radhanath Swami's idea to have pizza. This was 2004. And we were not really experienced in making pizzas. And some of us used to make our own version of pizza which was, you know, take a couple of loaves of bread and put some tomato ketchup and have some fried vegetables and it was what we would call as pizza. And we thought that is it. So when Maharaj said we should have pizza, I said, I mentioned to him, I don't think this is an item which we can sell in a restaurant. And he looked at me and said, which pizza are you referring to? The one which you guys feed me? I said, that's what pizza we know. And he looked at me and said, that which you feed me is not pizza, it's a perverted reflection of pizza. And then we had someone come from New York and he gave us the entire recipe of an authentic Italian New York pizza, thin crust. And for the first time in life I saw artichoke hearts. And I didn't know any of this and I was initiated into appreciating what a pizza is. So the word pizza was being used by us but the experience was something else. The word pizza remained the same but we were ascribing or superimposing the word pizza on some other product which was giving a different experience. The whole world is speaking about love. Songs are being sung by movie actors and actresses and singers and rock stars about love. Novels are being sold in the millions which are centered around the theme of love. But all of these descriptions are referring to an experience of selfish personal pleasure. Whereas the description as given in the Vedic scriptures is love means service without selfish consideration. So this has been the greatest revelation as far as meditation is concerned for me in my own life and my journey with Radhanath Swami and my other monks.

Jay Shetty 36:24 Amazing.

Jay Shetty 36:25 People often question, uh, s- how can anything be truly selfless if you know that it's good for you? And I want to hear your perspective on that because I'm sure people have said to you that, "How can anything be selfless? Because if I know that it's good for me to do service and I'm serving, then it's not selfless." So how do you respond to that?

Gauranga Das 36:45 The soul by nature is designed to serve.

Jay Shetty 36:51 Mm.

Gauranga Das 36:52 So sugar by nature is sweet, and water by nature is liquid. So when we perform an activity and function which is as per nature and as how it has been designed, one experiences harmony, and that harmony produces the greatest efficiency. And so the soul by nature is designed to serve. When we engage in serving and pleasing, that effect of serving and pleasing, it actually produces the greatest joy from within.

Jay Shetty 37:29 Mm.

Gauranga Das 37:31 And therefore, there are four levels of motivation. And that's what has kept me going in my 30 years as a monk.

Jay Shetty 37:41 Mm.

Gauranga Das 37:44 The lowest level is motivation by desire. The lowest level is motivation by fear.

Jay Shetty 37:51 Mm.

Gauranga Das 37:52 The next is motivation by desire. Above that is motivation by the sense of duty, and the highest is to be motivated by the sense of love. So if you analyze all these four levels, you will see actions motivated by fear and desire is simply a transaction. Actions motivated by duty may result in transparency, but it is only actions inspired by love which takes us to trance. And therefore, we have to decide, do we want to lead a life based on transaction or we want to lead a life based on trance? And so again, referring to the Chaitanya Charitamrit, I quote, "Bahu parishrama chandana remuna anila, ananda badhila mane duhkha na ganila." Madhavendra Puri, a great saint, he indulged in very hard work to get... Madhavendra Puri, a great saint, he actually got a whole load of sandalwood to please his worshipable Lord Gopal, and in that process, he experienced so many impediments and difficulties. But this verse reveals that ananda badhila mane duhkha na ganila. His bliss increased, and he did not consider that in any way, shape, or form to be creating any distress for him. And a very important word is used, duhkha na ganila. Ganila basically means count, to keep an account. When we keep an account, it is a business transaction. When we are serious about something, when we mean business, we keep a count. If I lend money to someone and if I'm running a business, so I keep a count of how much I've earned, how much I've spent. If someone is intent upon losing weight, they count their calories. So whenever there is seriousness and business-like dealing, the principle of keeping a count comes. Duhkha na ganila means, is our relationship a business-like transaction where I keep a count of how much I have done for you and how much distress I have gone through and how many difficulties I have gone through in this relationship? If I keep a count of that, then it is a business-like relationship.

Jay Shetty 41:00 Mm.

Gauranga Das 41:01 When a child is screaming in the middle of the night, the mother spontaneously gets up to pacify the child. The mother never tells other, other people in the family, "I am not on night shift."

Jay Shetty 41:15 Mm.

Gauranga Das 41:16 Or, "I don't have overtime. How much will you pay?" No, because she's just concerned out of a principle of selfless service to the child.

Jay Shetty 41:28 Mm.

Gauranga Das 41:29 And therefore, in a relationship inspired by love, one is in trance because we do not keep count of what difficulties we have to go through in that relationship, because we are simply concerned with pleasing the other person.

Jay Shetty 41:50 Mm.

Gauranga Das 41:51 And I believe that when I have led my life in this particular capacity as a monk, it has been keeping in mind a higher principle. A soldier fights to protect others' home and hearth. A monk fights to protect others' hopes. And therefore, when people go to a pharmacy shop, they know they'll get medicine. When they go to a bookstore, they know they'll get a book. When they come to a spiritual place where such spiritual discussions are going on, why are they coming? Why are they listening to you? Why are they connecting with anything from any of our traditions? Because they are coming to receive hope. And therefore, people may think, wealth is my greatest asset. Position is my greatest asset. Good looks are my greatest asset. Political influence is my greatest asset. Social acceptance is my greatest asset. But all of these are assets which can be finished and destroyed at any moment. As per Bhagavad Gita, the greatest asset is our hope. If someone has hope, even if he loses all the other things, he can still in due course of time do his best. And therefore, these kind of discussions evoke growth of the most important asset which each one of us have, the power and the ability to hope.

Jay Shetty 43:46 Absolutely. That's, yeah, that's an amazing perspective in looking in that way. Um, I'm gonna shift the conversation slightly, so hopefully this will be fun for all of you.

Gauranga Das 43:56 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 43:56 I wanted to ask Gauranga Das some questions, uh, about our relationship because, uh, he's known me since I was 18 years old. I'm 32 now, so it's been a fair amount of time, and we've spent a lot of quality time together in that time. So I wanted to ask him a few questions, and my first question was, and, and I want you to be honest. You have to be honest. No, uh, you don't have to sugarcoat.

Gauranga Das 44:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:17 What was the first thing you thought of me when we first met? Or around that time.

Gauranga Das 44:23 Yeah, I was in London and, uh, Jay walks in with, uh, one more friend, and then I look at him and I think, "Oh, this guy looks like Tom Cruise." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:35 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 44:36 And then, you know, he starts asking, you know, all kinds of questions, and I think maybe he's in distress because his girlfriend has ditched him.

Jay Shetty 44:46 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 44:48 So honestly, you know, I didn't think that you were so serious about, uh, wisdom and wanting to know more. At least it didn't appear at that time. So those were my first impressions. I hope I'm not being offensive. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:02 [laughs] No, it's true. It's true. I, I was never, uh, I wasn't spiritually inclined as a young kid, and even in my teens I was not so spiritually inclined. I think that's why I meant at the beginning that meeting you was a real turning point for me because even though I'd had some friends that were into spirituality in my family, of course my father and everything, I didn't really, I didn't really f- see my place. I couldn't really understand how someone like me could be spiritual. And I think that's why I'm so proactive in wanting to share it with people in the way I do, is because I want to share wisdom in a way that people like me who didn't really think they were spiritual or could access it, can actually find their path. So I think you're right.

Gauranga Das 45:47 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:47 I, I would, uh, I would agree with that. Uh, okay, good. And then, and then did you ever think that I would become a monk? Because I used to tell you probably every time we met between 18 to 22 that I wanted to be one.

Gauranga Das 46:01 Whenever I would hear that, I would think this guy has gone nuts.

Jay Shetty 46:05 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 46:07 And I was worried because, you know, definitely you were so sincere and your, uh, your, your intention to become a monk was coming from somewhere really deep. But because I had spent already so many years by that time as a monk, I knew that life was pretty rough in terms of, you know, a relentless need for being disciplined and, uh, you know, it's going to be extremely difficult and tough. And you came across to me as someone so fragile and, uh, someone who's like a mama's boy.

Jay Shetty 46:43 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 46:44 That I would always think that, oh man, how will this guy tolerate all the hardships as a monk? And, um, I was trying to discourage you for sure for all those years. So, but you know, what happened later was of course your call. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:59 [laughs] See, this is good. I want you all to listen to this because I want you to realize how much growth someone has to make. I think sometimes when I'm, when I'm speaking now or you hear me, a lot of the time people feel that, oh, you've always been this way, or you've always had it figured out. And, and the answer is we don't. No one has it figured out, and we're all figuring out all the time, and emotionally we change as well. I was definitely, I think when I first met you, I don't think I was thick-skinned. I don't think that I was resilient.

Gauranga Das 47:30 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 47:31 I don't think that I was-- I think I was fragile emotionally. I think I was very sensitive. Like, all of these things were... And I was 18 years old, so could, should I really put myself under pressure to be more? Maybe not, because you're only 18 years old. But now when I look back and I think about how I've been able to grow and change, uh, it's, it's fun to see it from that perspective. It's fun to look in the mirror with someone that has known you for a while and realize how far you've come and, and for you to see how far anyone can come as well, including yourself. So okay, that's good. And then when I became a monk, then we traveled together as well. Uh, what did you think during that time? What was, what was your thoughts? Were they changing?

Gauranga Das 48:14 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:14 Did I, did I impress you? Did I, did I prove you wrong or did, uh, where did it go from there?

Gauranga Das 48:19 No, I must be very honest that, you know, I never imagined that, uh, you know, you'll come to where you are today. Because at that point of time, I remember so many times you would break down and cry and, uh- I was, I was wondering that, uh, how will this guy survive his years as a monk? And, uh-

Jay Shetty 48:44 I still cry, like [laughs]

Gauranga Das 48:46 If, if someone had told me that one day this boy is going to become a social media celebrity, I would've said, "Good luck."

Jay Shetty 48:54 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 48:56 But, uh, I, I definitely was impressed, number one, with your sincerity in wanting to know and learn. So I think that was a very, very important, uh, value system and attitude which you had even then, an eagerness to know and learn, which was so sincere that I remember that in all our travels, one thing which struck me was how precisely you would keep notes. I don't know if you still have those notes, but-

Jay Shetty 49:33 Only from when you were close. [laughs]

Gauranga Das 49:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 49:35 I still have them from then.

Gauranga Das 49:37 But what struck me more was you have one of the neatest and the most beautiful handwritings. And I don't know whether, you know, those who are following you really have seen your handwriting.

Jay Shetty 49:51 Yeah.

Gauranga Das 49:51 But it's mind-boggling, and I still remember that, although I've not seen it for a long time. But the way you would capture the notes was very inspiring because it was very clear that you were wanting to understand very systematically all of that wisdom. And it has been an amazing experience to see how all of that unfolded in due course of time. Another thing I would like to share is that in our travels, I could also see a very deep urge within you to share this wisdom. And that was pretty obvious because, you know, I was a speaker, and so many people would come around, and I would not have time to speak to all of them, but you would immediately start sharing wisdom with others just after the event. And that irresistible desire to share the knowledge and wisdom and help others was something which I observed even then. And also, that desire was so strong that you would see best practices happening in different parts of the world, and especially at Iskcon Chowpatty, and you immediately would try to do something in London. And one example of that was how you really tried to help the youth in London by creating a beautiful house for the youth to stay right around the college campus, where they could experience a proper ecosystem for spiritual advancement. And I think it was totally your initiative, which was born of your experience of seeing something like that in India, and I was pretty impressed. But in spite of, you know, your emotional side, I could always also see very strong resilience and the ability to withstand opposition, challenges, difficulties, and unwillingness to take no for an answer. And, uh, you know, some examples of that was, like, some of the initiatives which you took at that particular point of time with respect to how to connect with the youth. And, uh, there were a lot of people who had other ideas, but you were convinced of certain ideas, and you really felt it was the best thing to do, and you were willing to put your weight behind that. And that really impressed me because I thought, "Oh, here is someone who comes across as very emotional and fragile, but he still has the guts to lead with a certain kind of determination which, uh, does not come across immediately." So, you know, I did notice that, and I remember when we were in Florida and we were about to catch a flight and, uh, you know, two airlines attendant girls came up, and they looked at you and said, "Hey, you look so happy and cute."

Jay Shetty 52:49 [laughs]

Gauranga Das 52:50 And, uh, I remember that, and you know, I looked at you, and I looked at them, and I was thinking, "Why is this guy a monk? Maybe he'll be more effective if he's out there amongst the people and, uh, as part of society." And at that point of time, there was practically no clue in what your future is going to be. But I could see that you had a tremendous ability to connect with people and reach out to people in ways which were pretty, uh, deep and, uh, something which not everybody could do. So these are some of my, uh, memories of those times, seeing, you know, the soft side of your personality but at the same time your steel-like determination, which seemed to be couched under that, uh, external cover of, uh, emotional softness. But I do believe that without having that kind of dedication and determination, you could not have spent, you know, those three years as a monk with many of us. And I remember, you know, putting you through the grind in the kitchen, you know, in front of a blazing fire. We would be cooking, and you would be assisting. And even while the construction of this ecovillage was happening, you were out there in the sun helping with bringing, uh, various materials and assisting. But all through all of these, the common thread which I saw was you had an enthusiasm and a zeal to serve, and that, I feel, is a very, very important character element which has really brought you to where you are. And, and I'm so glad that, you know, millions of people who are connecting to you are extremely fortunate to have a guide who is connected with the authentic wisdom.

Jay Shetty 54:50 Thank you so much for watching that video. If you enjoyed it, here's another one I think you'll love.

Gauranga Das 54:56 You have to have experienced love in order to create love, and then you bring into action. It starts with empathy, which is feeling what others are feeling. Compassion, which is the desire to alleviate suffering. And if you have that, then that is the basis of all love.

Jay Shetty 55:13 Mm.

Gauranga Das 55:13 But then love has to move into action as well