UNLOCK Financial Freedom: #1 Career Mistake Women Make (Men NEVER Do This!)

1. 0:00 – 2:57

   Intro

   1. KPKim Perell0:00

      Fear is paralyzing. I don't wanna fail, I don't wanna get rejected, but I always think back to, will I regret it more than not doing it? Will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead-end job? I will regret that decision more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one. How are you gonna move forward if you don't put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

   2. SPSpeaker0:22

      The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

   3. JSJay Shetty0:25

      Jay Shetty.

   4. SPSpeaker0:26

      The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] Where I really wanna start is so much of my audience right now is probably listening or watching. They're feeling stuck in a job that they don't love. They might have an idea, or maybe they don't even know what they're passionate about, and they just don't know where to start. What's the first thing you should do?

   5. KPKim Perell0:48

      Oh my gosh, yes. I totally relate, and there's so many people that I talk to that are saying how they are stuck. And I wrote, I mean, i- in the book, I talk about staying too long, right? Staying too long in a job you hate, in the job you wake up and you dread going to, and how do you get out? And I call that my exit ramp strategy. Like, what's the exit ramp? How do I get from where I am today to where I want to be? And the first step starts with thinking, for me, where do I wanna be in one year from today? It gets so overwhelming if you try to have it all mapped out, but if you can just think, what's my vision? Where do I wanna be in one year? And then work your way backwards to today and take small, tiny steps in order to achieve it, it's more manageable. And I think a year's a good enough, you know, a nice enough amount of time to be able to put that first step into action and, and make that change that you wanna make. But it starts with knowing and making, you know, that, putting that line in the sand that I'm going to change my life.

   6. SPSpeaker1:50

      Yeah. I remember, I'm thinking about when I've been on the verge of wanting to quit or move, and before I started doing all of this, I was in a corporate job. I was stable. I was safe. I didn't love it, and it, I wasn't necessarily that successful. I was good at what I did, but it was gonna be a long time before I had a successful career trajectory. And I remember for me, it was asking that question, and also, funnily enough, another question which was kind of at the other extreme, which was, do I wanna be where everyone else is who's 20 years older than me in this company? So I would look at someone who's at the company who's 10, 20 years older, more senior than me, and I would think, "Do I wanna be doing that when I'm 20 years older than myself?" To also get a reality check, right? Does that resonate, like-

   7. KPKim Perell2:41

      Yeah, in 20 years, Go- how many times? I mean, you definitely shouldn't stay that long, right?

   8. SPSpeaker2:45

      Yeah.

   9. KPKim Perell2:45

      But someone actually told me the other day they were in a job for 20 years, and I, I, I thought, "Oh my gosh, 20 years," right? My rule of thumb, if you're not earning and you're not learning, you gotta make a change. And if you're not there, say you've

2. 2:57 – 4:17

   How to Get Unstuck and Move Forward

   1. KPKim Perell2:57

      been in a job less than, less than three years, but over three years, you gotta really look at what is your career path, because you could just get stuck.

   2. SPSpeaker3:06

      Yeah. Yeah.

   3. KPKim Perell3:06

      And you just end up staying, and honestly, I stayed too long in a job. I mean, I had sold my company. I ended up staying 'cause it was comfortable.

   4. SPSpeaker3:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KPKim Perell3:14

      But I wasn't living the highest and best use of my skills and my talents. It was just easy, and this, it was sc- it's scary to make change, right?

   6. SPSpeaker3:23

      Well, I think that's what it is. Like, I think a lot of people, before we dive into some of the mistakes that made you a millionaire, l- I think for a lot of people, we're just scared because we don't see the options. We don't really know what's available. We maybe even have been in a workplace that's made us doubt our abilities. Maybe you've not been in an empowering place where you feel good about yourself. Maybe you have a boss that doesn't acknowledge you or your commitments, or maybe you have a team of people that have made you shrink a little bit, or maybe you've just ended up in a job based on something you studied at college, and now you realize, I don't even like this anymore. So when you're scared and you're facing fear, what do, what do you do with that? Because it can keep you so paralyzed and so stuck. What do you do to break through that fear of saying, "Well, let me at least think about the next one year. Let me at least look at the options around me"?

   7. KPKim Perell4:15

      I mean, fear is paralyzing.

3. 4:17 – 5:50

   When It’s Time to Pivot Your Career

   1. SPSpeaker4:17

      Mm-hmm.

   2. KPKim Perell4:17

      Right? And I've had that happen for me, just paralyzing because I am scared. I don't wanna fail. I don't wanna get rejected. I don't want the pain that comes with trying something new. But I always think back to, will I regret it more than d- not doing it?

   3. SPSpeaker4:33

      Mm.

   4. KPKim Perell4:33

      Like, will I look back one year from now if I'm in the same dead-end job and I hate my, [laughs] my, my, you know, what I do every day? I will regret that decision-

   5. SPSpeaker4:42

      Mm-hmm

   6. KPKim Perell4:42

      ... more than I fear making a decision and having it be the wrong one.

   7. SPSpeaker4:47

      Mm-hmm. That's a good one.

   8. KPKim Perell4:48

      And so really thinking about is, [laughs] is the regret, you know, bigger than the fear?

   9. SPSpeaker4:52

      Yeah, definitely, and I, I love that question, and I've definitely sat with that, and I think that's what made me do what I do now, which was I would have regretted if I never tried my hand at media. And I look back now and I think, "Oh my gosh, I would've been the craziest person in the world to not try." And you're so right. That regret is probably the only emotion stronger than fear.

   10. KPKim Perell5:15

       Yes. Uh-

   11. SPSpeaker5:16

       And you have to kind of tap into that to unlock and get better.

   12. KPKim Perell5:19

       Yeah, and thinking to your point, in 20 years I will regret staying here-

   13. SPSpeaker5:23

       Yeah

   14. KPKim Perell5:23

       ... and regret doing... It's also about just staying in relationships, what you're gonna s- look back and regret being in that too.

   15. SPSpeaker5:29

       Yeah.

   16. KPKim Perell5:29

       Like how... But it's hard to change. I get it. Like, I've been there.

   17. SPSpeaker5:32

       [laughs]

   18. KPKim Perell5:32

       It's so hard to change. It's hard to make the decision. But again, making sure that you think about the regret of not making the deci- the decision is so much worse.

   19. SPSpeaker5:40

       Yeah. Mistake number one you say is waiting to be 100% ready. I think this is... You, you hit the nail on the head with this one. I really, truly,

4. 5:50 – 8:06

   Is Regret More Powerful Than Fear?

   1. SPSpeaker5:50

      truly believe that we're all wrapped up in what you call the four Ps, like the perfectionism, like wanting it to be perfect, brilliant, know everything about everything. We, you say we wanna be, we procrastinate. Like, we'll just overthink the thing.How ready do you need to be in order to start? Like, on a scale of one to 10, or actually let's look at percentages, zero to 100%, what percentage ready do you need to be in order to start?

   2. KPKim Perell6:21

      I think when I look at being 100% ready, and it is mostly the fear, and I've been there. I wasn't ready when I started my first company. I mean, I was too young, I didn't have any experience, I'd never been a CEO, I didn't have any money. I definitely... I calculated, 'cause that was my Type A personality, made a spreadsheet. It's like, "Not ready. Kim, you're not ready," [laughs] you know? And at that point, you have to decide, are you ready enough?

   3. SPSpeaker6:45

      Mm-hmm.

   4. KPKim Perell6:45

      And the way I decided was, actually I learned really early on, I had heard this Marine Corps rule of thumb, which is the 70% rule. And so it said if you're 70% ready, you should take action.

   5. SPSpeaker7:00

      Mm.

   6. KPKim Perell7:00

      If you're 100% ready, you've already missed the opportunity.

   7. SPSpeaker7:03

      Mm.

   8. KPKim Perell7:04

      So I started using that rule, the 70% rule, to take action. It helped me balance analysis and action and move forward, and I still use it all the time. If I'm 70% ready, I take action. I move. And I assume I'm gonna figure it out along the way.

   9. SPSpeaker7:20

      Mm-hmm.

   10. KPKim Perell7:21

       And if you think... So to your point, what's the percentage? 70%.

   11. SPSpeaker7:24

       I like that. I like that. Yeah, that, that really resonates. I, I think that's right. I think one thing I s- love that you said about there is that I think most successful people, they know that they'll figure it out along the way. They don't believe that the first thing they make will be the best thing, or they don't believe the first thing they put out will be the final thing. And I think when we're inexperienced, we think, "No, the first thing I have to put out has to be my best thing." And you think about that and you go, "How's that even possible?" Right? Like-

   12. KPKim Perell7:53

       Yeah

   13. SPSpeaker7:54

       ... the first pair of shoes that Nike made were not their best shoes. The first, uh, drink that we made with Juni, like, our first flavors were not our best flavors. Like, the first thing you make is never gonna be the best,

5. 8:06 – 9:52

   You Don’t Need To Be 100% Ready To Start

   1. SPSpeaker8:06

      it's not gonna be the last, and it's not gonna be final. And so you had this vision of, I'll figure it out along the way. How does someone know they're 70% ready? Like, if they were, if they had an idea, what does 70% classify? Like, what do you think that's made up of?

   2. KPKim Perell8:22

      I think 70% is enough that you're still, like, perfecting the edges, right?

   3. SPSpeaker8:27

      Right.

   4. KPKim Perell8:27

      You're still thinking, "Oh, I could make a tweak to my deck, or make a tweak to my business plan, or make a, a wait a little bit longer." You know, you make up excuses. So I think as, the point where you start making excuses for why you're not ready, that's the 70%. [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker8:40

      Right. Right.

   6. KPKim Perell8:41

      So, [laughs] and I think it's not I'm, have done nothing, obviously. You have to be 70%. So you have an idea, you've probably made a prototype, you're ready to go to market, and then you convince yourself why you can't do it.

   7. SPSpeaker8:52

      Yes.

   8. KPKim Perell8:52

      That's the point where you actually need to go and get customer feedback. Me and you both know, you gotta get out there, get the customer feedback, get market feedback, because you're gonna likely change.

   9. SPSpeaker9:02

      Yeah. Talk to me about those steps, because those steps that you just laid out I think are so important. You just said you gotta make a product, you gotta make a, you, uh, you gotta make a prototype, you gotta get customer feedback. When you think about building something, whatever it may be, that is actually the fastest way to figure it out. And this idea of having a prototype or a minimum viable product is core. Like, so if you wanna write a book, write a blog post.

   10. KPKim Perell9:29

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker9:30

       And put the blog post out there and see whether people connect with it, engage with it, what comments they put on it. If you wanna start a podcast, interview... I mean, when I first met you, I didn't have a podcast. I was interviewing people on Facebook Live-

   12. KPKim Perell9:42

       Yeah

   13. SPSpeaker9:42

       ... and I could see what the comments were saying and I could engage with people, and that gave me confidence to have an interview show and actually build a podcast. To me, that is the first step for anyone out there.

6. 9:52 – 11:29

   Are You Ever Really Ready?

   1. SPSpeaker9:52

      It's like, whatever you wanna build, build the smallest, cheapest, easiest version of it and put it out there, right?

   2. KPKim Perell10:00

      Yes. Dream-

   3. SPSpeaker10:00

      Talk to me about some of the examples you've had to do that with.

   4. KPKim Perell10:03

      I mean, yeah. I think for me it's dream big, really, really big, and then start really small, right?

   5. SPSpeaker10:08

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KPKim Perell10:09

      Start small. And people ask me all the time, "Do I need to have money to start a business?" The answer is no, you actually don't. Today, I mean, you need to actually have the grit and the ability to get your product to market. So it could be a farmers market, it doesn't matter. It could be going door to door. You just have to get a minimal viable product and understand if you actually, someone will pay for it. 'Cause if they're not gonna pay for it, it's a hobby.

   7. SPSpeaker10:35

      Yes.

   8. KPKim Perell10:35

      People always come and they're like, "I got a great idea." Will someone pay for your [laughs] idea? If it's not, you're, it's a hobby, which is nice, but a business is here to make money.

   9. SPSpeaker10:43

      Absolutely, yeah. I was talking about it with someone earlier today. We had, when we launched our smoothie at Air1, a lot of people come. And so I did this launch, if you remember, and we did it with the book and our drinks and everything else at Air1, and we loved them over there. And we had a lot of people wait outside, and they came in droves. And I met this one guy who was, like, really excited to make content for me and, like, work with me. And he showed me some of his stuff and it looked cool, and I was like, "Cool. Talk to my team, and get connected." The next thing I know, he was on vacation and shooting Juni just for fun.

   10. KPKim Perell11:15

       I love that.

   11. SPSpeaker11:15

       And then he sent me a picture, and now he's editing so many things across different parts of our business. But it was the same thing. He showed me a minimum viable product.

   12. KPKim Perell11:24

       Right.

   13. SPSpeaker11:24

       So he went out and did a photo shoot. I never asked him to. No one told him to. He went and did it. He was on vacation.

7. 11:29 – 13:09

   Dream Big, But Start Where You Are

   1. SPSpeaker11:29

      He shot Juni cans in the ocean, sent me pictures on DMs. I just saw it and I was like, "Guys, this picture's really great." I remember sending it to our chat, and the whole team was like, "Oh, that's awesome." And I'm like, "Yeah, we just got it for free." [laughs] Like, "This guy just made it, and now he's working." So in any regard, I just feel like when you can build the simplest, easiest, cheapest version of what you believe in, that is the first step.

   2. KPKim Perell11:51

      Yes, 100%.

   3. SPSpeaker11:51

      And then hear what people have to say. How do we get over that hunch that we're scared of what people are gonna think of what we put out there? Because when it's the easiest, cheapest version, we know it's not perfect, and now we're trying to, like, over-justify and be like, "Yeah, but this isn't the final one, and it..." But, but how do you allow yourself to put out something that's 70% knowing that people are gonna criticize, judge, and have an opinion on it?

   4. KPKim Perell12:16

      I mean, they're gonna judge anyway, right? And so I, I mean, I look at it, the naysayers and the critics and the dream killers, they're gonna-... tell you why it's not gonna work no matter what you do. When I started my first company, they're like, "That internet is a fad. Like, that internet's gonna be [laughs] nowhere." Obviously, the internet became so large. But back in the time, you just, you're-

   5. SPSpeaker12:36

      Crazy to think, yeah

   6. KPKim Perell12:37

      ... it's crazy to think that people were like, "No, the internet company's gonna, it's a terrible idea, Kim," obviously. But your confidence in your idea has to be greater than anyone else's doubt. That is the bottom line. So you just have to believe more in what you're building than anyone else is. Like, that's all noise. You just gotta shut out the noise and keep pushing towards your vision.

   7. SPSpeaker12:58

      What have you seen? Because you've also coached so many entrepreneurs. You've invested in so many companies. You continue to build so many companies yourself. What have you noticed about the difference between

8. 13:09 – 15:24

   The Power of Believing in Your Vision

   1. SPSpeaker13:10

      delusional confidence and delusional confidence that works? Because it almost feels like everyone who wins at life is delusional to some degree. They had to over-believe. But then you also see a subsect of people who do over-believe, but there isn't anything there. Like, there isn't value there.

   2. KPKim Perell13:29

      I mean, yeah, I-

   3. SPSpeaker13:30

      So where does that come in?

   4. KPKim Perell13:31

      Ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution's everything. So I get pitched all the time, "I got a great idea, great idea." You know what? The next three months from now they're gonna tell me, "I still have a great idea." And then I'll see them in a year, "Kim, I've got this amazing idea." Honestly, I want the guy or the woman, the man, whoever it is, to come with me, say, "I've got a great idea, and I already started."

   5. SPSpeaker13:49

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KPKim Perell13:50

      "But I started. I started in my ba- my bathroom. I started in my kitchen. I started in my garage. I don't care where you start. But I actually had the courage to take the first step." It's easy to dream. It's hard to do.

   7. SPSpeaker14:00

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   8. KPKim Perell14:01

      And so I want someone that is doing it.

   9. SPSpeaker14:03

      Yes.

   10. KPKim Perell14:04

       The biggest mistake people make is not asking. I did that. When I wanted to go to college, I wanted to go to Duke, and I had a family friend that had gone there. He was alumni. I didn't ask him to ma- write me a recommendation because I just felt I was wasting his time. What a mistake. Eight was where, the sweet spot for me. I think some people can manage a lot more, but in order to really scale, like, a billion dollars on annual basis, that was where I found, that was, like, perfect.

   11. SPSpeaker14:33

       Mm-hmm.

   12. KPKim Perell14:33

       They're telling you it's not gonna work, you can't do it, because that's what they think-

   13. SPSpeaker14:37

       Mm

   14. KPKim Perell14:37

       ... not what you think.

   15. SPSpeaker14:38

       That's why when you're watching Shark Tank or Dragon's Den, the entrepreneurs that are the most impressive are the ones who already have sales data, even if it's early days. The entrepreneurs are always more impressed by that than they are about someone who's like, "Well, we haven't put it out to market yet. We don't know."

   16. KPKim Perell14:55

       Right.

   17. SPSpeaker14:55

       And so that idea of learning and iterating, and I think it's, like, shifting our mindset because I feel like when we were at school, when you handed in a report, that was it.

   18. KPKim Perell15:04

       Right.

   19. SPSpeaker15:05

       Right? So we were trained at school that when you hand in a report or you do an exam, it's final. It's done, whereas real life and business is, you hand in your first version of a prototype, and then you iterate, and you improve, and you change, and you evolve. And so it's a real shift for people's

9. 15:24 – 16:29

   Be Delusionally Confident

   1. SPSpeaker15:24

      brains because we've all been conditioned to believe that no, once you hand it in, that's it. That's your grade. 'Cause if you got a grade A, that's great. And if you got a grade C, that's it. You got a grade C on your scorecard. You didn't get to go, "Oh, well, now I'm gonna make that report seven times better, and I'm gonna change this paragraph, and I'm gonna do this research," whereas that's what real life's like. So how have you trained yourself and trained other people to change that mindset? Because I feel so many of us get lost in thinking, "Well, no, it's final. It's done. I don't have that ability to figure it out and make things better."

   2. KPKim Perell16:00

      I think it's interesting to watch because people are trained, to your point, to want to be perfect, right? He's picture perfect. I get an A. I move on. But the reality, the most successful people that I know, are making mistakes and iterating along the way.

   3. SPSpeaker16:18

      Mm.

   4. KPKim Perell16:18

      And that's where you get the most growth because you're putting yourself out there. You're actually being okay if you fail.

   5. SPSpeaker16:25

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KPKim Perell16:25

      And if you're okay to fail, you're probably twice as likely to succeed,

10. 16:29 – 18:30

    How Mistakes Help You Iterate and Improve

    1. KPKim Perell16:29

       right?

    2. SPSpeaker16:29

       Mm.

    3. KPKim Perell16:29

       The entrepreneurs that fail first are gonna, you know, statistically proven to do better the second time. So you actually should be putting yourself in positions that you might not be successful.

    4. SPSpeaker16:39

       Yeah, I was watching a movie. You just, you just, uh, reminded me of something. I was watching The Founder again recently, which is one of my favorite movies. It's the story of Ray Kroc and how he built McDonald's.

    5. KPKim Perell16:48

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SPSpeaker16:49

       And if you haven't watched it, anyone who's listening or watching, make sure you go watch the movie. It's on Netflix, I think. But I was watching it again because it's, it's truly one of my favorite movies, and there's this scene in it where Ray Kroc, who's the, who never founded McDonald's but built the business because he took it off the McDonald's brothers. But there's a scene where he's at, like, this members club with his wife that his wife wants to go to, and all of his friends have heard about all his bad business ideas. And he's executed on them, but they've all failed. So McDonald's is, like, his seventh business or something like that. It's not his first. And so all the people around him are kind of laughing at him, going, "Oh, is this another one of your franch- oh cool, franchise model?" Like, everyone's laughing it off. And i- in that moment, his wife kinda stands up for him and says, "Well, no, I think this time it's different," and they kinda listen to her because she thinks it's different. But it's so interesting that we're all scared of the people closest to us because they've seen us fail, and so making mistakes and failing is uncomfortable because the people around us kind of remind us of it. Like, everyone at that table was like, "Ray, is this another one of your crazy ideas?" And so what do you do when you feel like the people closest to you are your biggest doubters? Because I think that's, we're not worried about the internet. We're not worried about a customer, 'cause you don't really even know that. You're worried about what your mom's gonna say. Like, I remember when I was quitting my safe job to do what I do today, my whole family was like, "You know you're getting married this year. Like, you don't quit your job when you're getting married. Like, that's so unsafe." Or I was hearing things like, "Well, you were so lucky to get that job after you lived as a monk."You know you're not... It was so hard for you to get that job. Like, now you're gonna leave that? Like, how are

11. 18:30 – 22:15

    How to Silence the People Who Doubt You

    1. SPSpeaker18:30

       you gonna give that up? How are you gonna pay your mortgage? How are you gonna pay rent? Like, these are the things people are hearing, and so making mistakes and failing is hard because it's almost like everyone reminds you of your past mistakes. So what do you do?

    2. KPKim Perell18:43

       For me, when I was growing up, my dad is a serial entrepreneur, and he was always on the brink of bankruptcy and starting some, very much like Ray Kroc, always got some idea, chasing some dream, betting the farm. But at dinner he would ask us, "What was the worst thing that happened to you today?" And so from a very young age, he norm- I mean, it's very odd to ask... I have four children, right? If I asked them all the time what's the worst thing that happened. I think it was entrepreneur therapy for my father, to be honest. But side note, it normalized failure for me because it became okay to fail. And so how do we have the same conversation with ourselves? What's the worth thing, worst thing that happened to you today? I mean, like, something... We know, we're in business. Something goes wrong every single day.

    3. SPSpeaker19:28

       Absolutely.

    4. KPKim Perell19:29

       It's inevitable. But how you respond to it is what makes the difference. And so if we can just look at the setbacks and the challenges and the things that go wrong as essential stepping stones to what will go right.

    5. SPSpeaker19:43

       Mm.

    6. KPKim Perell19:44

       And it's just, it's inevitable, right? Success isn't a straight line. It's a winding, curving road. And if you can continue to push forward and know that, "Okay, I'm gonna get rejected. This isn't gonna go my way," and nor- start normalizing failure for yourself and making it okay. And with all the family, I mean, obviously my family [laughs] is embracing failure. I totally get in other, you know, families, obviously that's not the case. But even when I started my company, they told me it's a terrible idea. Like, you- again, it goes back to you just have to believe.

    7. SPSpeaker20:16

       Mm.

    8. KPKim Perell20:17

       Like, obviously not to delusion.

    9. SPSpeaker20:19

       Yeah.

    10. KPKim Perell20:19

        You have to get to market and ensure that it's viable, but don't listen to those naysayers.

    11. SPSpeaker20:24

        Yeah. How did you, how do you then pass that on to your kids? Like you said, you wouldn't sit down with your kids and say, "What's the worst thing that happened to you today?" Like, you wouldn't teach it in the same way.

    12. KPKim Perell20:34

        Right.

    13. SPSpeaker20:34

        How are you thinking about teaching your kids about failure and making mistakes and not judging themselves or worrying about judgment? Like, how do you do that? And I know they're young, but like you said, this starts young.

    14. KPKim Perell20:45

        It starts young. So for... Well, I changed the dinner table conversation. I use something called pow, wow, bow, which is pow, the worst thing that happens to you, right? Wow, the best thing that happens to you, and bow, like what are you grateful for?

    15. SPSpeaker21:00

        Mm.

    16. KPKim Perell21:00

        So it's a different take on the [laughs] dinner table ritual.

    17. SPSpeaker21:03

        Mm-hmm.

    18. KPKim Perell21:03

        But it grounds them in understanding failure, failure and mistakes are normal, great things happen, and it's a different way to teach them how to bounce back from the challenges.

    19. SPSpeaker21:14

        Well, you're almost teaching them that it's, it's one-third. Like, it's a part of it.

    20. KPKim Perell21:18

        Right.

    21. SPSpeaker21:18

        But then there's something amazing that happened every day, and there's something to be grateful for.

    22. KPKim Perell21:22

        Always.

    23. SPSpeaker21:22

        Which is really, which is a much more complete view of life-

    24. KPKim Perell21:25

        Right

    25. SPSpeaker21:25

        ... rather than just looking at what went wrong.

    26. KPKim Perell21:27

        Exactly.

    27. SPSpeaker21:27

        But it, but it is important. Yeah, I, I feel like, I'm trying to think about it where it happened in my life, like where I just... I feel like at school, it was probably my... I, I feel like it was my art teacher who just, he wanted things to be imperfect and raw.

    28. KPKim Perell21:43

        Oh, that's amazing, actually.

    29. SPSpeaker21:44

        And, and I was never good at painting or drawing, so I always thought I was bad at art. And he made me realize how art was expression, and it wasn't how well you could draw a self-portrait, which I can't do, or how well you draw a person. Like, he was like, "That's not art. Art's expression and story and creativity." And so I think he took away that perfectionist idea, 'cause I think when we think of art, we think of the Mona Lisa. And then when you look at someone like Jackson Pollock, you're just like, "That's just dots on a... You know, what is that?" Or like lines and dots and, you know. But it's like, no, there was some expression. There was some

12. 22:15 – 23:20

    Teaching Kids to Embrace Failure

    1. SPSpeaker22:15

       theory behind that that worked, and whether you can appreciate or not, the idea is that art is imperfect. It's expressive. It's not always, like, a picture-perfect painting and the colors being amazing. So I look in my childhood and I go, "Where did I learn to fail and be okay with it?" And even now, I know that we have to fail every single day to get to where we are in the content we put out, the podcast we choose to do.

    2. KPKim Perell22:39

       Yes.

    3. SPSpeaker22:39

       Everything. Like, it is the only way. And I always say to my team, "30% of our content always has to fail."

    4. KPKim Perell22:47

       Oh, see? I love that.

    5. SPSpeaker22:47

       Because that's a percentage.

    6. KPKim Perell22:49

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker22:49

       And it's kind of 70/30, 70 rule.

    8. KPKim Perell22:49

       Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker22:51

       And I'm like, 30% of our content has to be experimental. 30% of our content has to be experimental, because we'll never discover the next style, format, genre of content if we just keep doing what we're doing right now. But I'm, I'm always trying to think, like, how do I help people really embrace that? Because it's easy to say and hard to do when you're like, "Well, Jay, if I fail, I may never get another shot." And I think that's how people feel, that, "If I get the door shut on my face,

13. 23:20 – 26:02

    Rejection as Redirection

    1. SPSpeaker23:20

       where am I gonna go? Like, if I go pitch my idea and it's not good enough, isn't that the end?"

    2. KPKim Perell23:26

       No, and I think that's what we have wrong, because as an investor and as an entrepreneur, I raise a lot of money and I invest my lot of money. You're going to get rejected 100 times. So when people come and they said, "Oh, someone didn't like my idea," they want to invest five people. Listen, you got 95 more to go, right?

    3. SPSpeaker23:43

       Mm-hmm.

    4. KPKim Perell23:43

       This is a numbers game, so you have to understand that if you want to be successful, you're gonna have to get rejected a lot, and that's okay. It's honestly part of the process, and knowing... I usually say, you know, "Go for the no."

    5. SPSpeaker23:55

       Yeah. Yeah.

    6. KPKim Perell23:56

       Go for the no. Just show up and try to get the no, because you're putting yourself out there. You're getting better with each pitch. You're understanding what the investor wants or doesn't want, and by the time you get to 100, you got this nailed.

    7. SPSpeaker24:07

       Yeah.

    8. KPKim Perell24:07

       And you overcome your fear of rejection at the same time, right?

    9. SPSpeaker24:10

       Yeah. Yeah, and you learn so much. I remember yesterday we were pitching and working with one of our brands, and we sat in a meeting. The team had come up with thisReally amazing comprehensive deck. But I could see within 10 minutes the CEO that we were talking to was c- their head was in a different space. They were present, but I could tell that that wasn't turning their wheels. And so I was like, "Let's just put this aside and have a conversation," and we learned so much more through having a conversation rather than just delusionally just talking about what we'd planned. And I think that's part of it, too. It's like actually being present and going, "Well, I'm just gonna listen."

    10. KPKim Perell24:44

        Listen.

    11. SPSpeaker24:44

        "Because actually, if I just listen, I'm gonna learn so much more about what you actually want, what you need, how your brain works." And now I can be honest with myself and go... I remember actually years ago when I was building my coaching company, I went to pitch at a coaching firm. This is so before my content. And I was pitching a corporate coaching session on emotional intelligence. And I was talking to the head buyer at this corporate company in HR, and they told me what they wanted. And I remember leaving the meeting and go, "I actually don't have what you want, like, but thanks so much." And I felt so proud of myself for being able to admit that I actually didn't have what they were looking for, and that was okay. But I would be able to find someone who was looking for what I was selling, if that makes sense.

    12. KPKim Perell25:27

        Right. Yeah, for sure.

    13. SPSpeaker25:28

        And, and I think it's that belief of recognizing that there is space in the world for so much more than we think there is. I think we think there's only space for Nike. And then you think about it and you're like, "Wait a minute. There's Nike. There's Adidas. There's Reebok. There's New Balance. There's Converse. There's Lacoste." I can go on and on and on, but we, we kind of in our brain are wired to believe there's only two successful brands.

    14. KPKim Perell25:54

        Yeah, but you don't-

    15. SPSpeaker25:54

        There's Lululemon.

    16. KPKim Perell25:55

        Yes.

    17. SPSpeaker25:55

        There's, there's Vuori. There's Alo. There's, you know, it's like-

    18. KPKim Perell25:59

        Yeah

    19. SPSpeaker25:59

        ... now it just starts expanding, and you could've said, "Well..."

14. 26:02 – 29:14

    The Difference Between Innovating and Iterating

    1. SPSpeaker26:02

       Or you could've said athleisure was already all done, like, five years ago. It's too saturated. But now you've got Set Active, you've got Fabletics. Like, you know, it's, you start recognizing, oh, there's a lot of space in the world.

    2. KPKim Perell26:13

       There's so much space, and you don't have to innovate, but you could iterate.

    3. SPSpeaker26:18

       Mm.

    4. KPKim Perell26:18

       And that's what we have to understand, is how do you iterate the next generation of that version of whatever it is you're trying to create? I mean, I've been pitched. People are like, "This idea's already been gone," right? Like, I was pitching an idea and someone was like, "Ugh, it's never gonna work. The idea's already, the idea's already had." I ended up investing 'cause I bet on the people, and it went to, like, a $30 billion market cap. So honestly, if someone tells you it's already been done, I don't believe you. Like, it could be outdone. It could be differentiated. There's better marketing. There's always an opportunity, to your point, to create.

    5. SPSpeaker26:48

       Yeah. Yeah. And that's what you've gotta look for.

    6. KPKim Perell26:51

       Yes.

    7. SPSpeaker26:51

       We're too worried about being first or being the best instead of being different.

    8. KPKim Perell26:56

       Exactly.

    9. SPSpeaker26:57

       And, and people are buying difference, not first or best.

    10. KPKim Perell27:01

        No, they just want what makes you unique.

    11. SPSpeaker27:03

        Yes.

    12. KPKim Perell27:03

        Right? And like-

    13. SPSpeaker27:03

        Yeah

    14. KPKim Perell27:03

        ... why are you different?

    15. SPSpeaker27:05

        Why is it talking to me?

    16. KPKim Perell27:05

        Exactly.

    17. SPSpeaker27:06

        Yeah.

    18. KPKim Perell27:06

        Exactly.

    19. SPSpeaker27:07

        Why is it connecting with me?

    20. KPKim Perell27:08

        100%. Yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker27:08

        There's a reason why a brand speaks to you and connects with you more than another, no matter how big or small it may be.

    22. KPKim Perell27:15

        Exactly.

    23. SPSpeaker27:16

        Yeah.

    24. KPKim Perell27:16

        There's always opportunity.

    25. SPSpeaker27:17

        That's where we need to put our energy rather than like, "Oh my God, I'm gonna be behind. Oh my God, I'm gonna be last." The, the second mistake you talk about is this idea of trying to do it all alone.

    26. KPKim Perell27:26

        Oh, yes. That's so hard.

    27. SPSpeaker27:28

        Talk to me about-

    28. KPKim Perell27:28

        I know, but I think a lot of people-

    29. SPSpeaker27:30

        Yeah

    30. KPKim Perell27:30

        ... can think like that. I mean, I grew up as a twin, and from an early age, I was always in competition with my twin sister, and she was smarter and faster and better than me at basically everything. We took a test. She ended up being, you know, aced the test. Genetically, we're the same, so it didn't make any sense, but she got bused off to the smart school, and I stayed back because I didn't ace the test. And you know, my friends called me, [laughs] you know, said, "You're not the smart one," which labels you. But then from an early age, I just became a lone wolf, right? Just like, "Okay, I'll just do everything on my own. I'm not gonna try to compete with her. I'll play tennis. I'll swim," anything that's a lone sport. [laughs] Because it just didn't... Like, I didn't wanna compete. But that is such a mistake, because trying to do everything alone will not get you very far. It's only till later after I was burnt out, exhausted, working 16 hours a day by myself at my kitchen table, that I learned that there's no way you will be truly successful until you surround yourself with the right people.
15. 29:14 – 31:51

    Build a Support System That Elevates You

    1. KPKim Perell29:14

       It could be the local business vendor. It just needs someone that's a little bit ahead of you, right? And that's the key, is someone that you can learn from, who's been there, who's done that, who can teach you, because you will not be successful alone.

    2. SPSpeaker29:25

       Yeah.

    3. KPKim Perell29:25

       No one is.

    4. SPSpeaker29:26

       Yeah. I think that's the... I think that, you just nailed it. That's the biggest mistake I think when we make trying to find mentors, because we wanna be mentored by the people we see on TV, and that person's either not accessible, available, doesn't have time, but also, they've found that success in such a different way. And you're so right that what you really wanna do is talk to your local bakery, talk to your local design store, talk to your local, you know. And now everything's local. It's online.

    5. KPKim Perell29:54

       Right.

    6. SPSpeaker29:55

       And there's so many companies and so many people that would be happy. Talk to me about how you build an effective relationship with a mentor, because I think people are struggling right now where some people don't have time. Everyone's very busy to give time, mentors. Then mentors sometimes feel like everyone's just take, take, take, take, take. And then there's people saying, "Well, let me do some work for you," but then that comes with, like, a hidden agenda of, like, "Oh, and you're gonna give me free mentorship." So I think it's kinda messy space right now. Like, how do you actually build an effective mentoring relationship? How do you find one, and how do you build an effective relationship with one?

    7. KPKim Perell30:31

       Okay, so those are good questions. One, how do you find one?Three words, let's have coffee. In our case, tea.

    8. SPSpeaker30:37

       [laughs]

    9. KPKim Perell30:37

       But yes. Because you can easily ask someone for 15 minutes of a coffee date or a tea d- date. That is like, to me, and I've been doing this for 20 years, 15 minutes. Jay, do you want a 15 minutes? Now granted, um, you cannot email someone on TV and ask if they wanna have 15 minutes of your time, but you could email someone, I guarantee five people in your network that you actually want to learn from, and try to find a personal connection point. So if you email me and say, "Hey Kim, you're a twin. I'm building something for twins, women in business, children under the age of 10," I need a personal connection, and then I h- I have the desire to mentor you.

    10. SPSpeaker31:14

        Mm-hmm.

    11. KPKim Perell31:15

        And it becomes... I mean, mentorship is personal. If there's a price tag, that's not a mentor, that's a consultant.

    12. SPSpeaker31:21

        Mm.

    13. KPKim Perell31:21

        Right? So if someone's saying, "I'll mentor you for $10,000," $2,000, $1,000, whatever it is, that's not a mentor. I mean, I mentor a lot of people. It is truly I want the person to be successful.

    14. SPSpeaker31:32

        Mm-hmm.

    15. KPKim Perell31:33

        And so I'm going to dedicate my time to ensuring their success.

    16. SPSpeaker31:36

        Mm-hmm.

    17. KPKim Perell31:37

        And you want someone who actually cares about you.

    18. SPSpeaker31:39

        Mm-hmm.

    19. KPKim Perell31:39

        Who really cares about you, what you're creating, and that type of mentorship is so priceless.

    20. SPSpeaker31:46

        Mm-hmm.

    21. KPKim Perell31:47

        And so finding that, I mean, if there's only one thing you do ever,

16. 31:51 – 33:55

    How to Find Mentors Who Truly Guide You

    1. KPKim Perell31:51

       is finding that mentor, that person. Because you're gonna hit roadblocks, you call them. They- it's such a beautiful connection if you can find the right one. But again, if you call someone and they don't call you back, that's not the mentor. [laughs]

    2. SPSpeaker32:02

       Yeah.

    3. KPKim Perell32:02

       Right?

    4. SPSpeaker32:03

       You- yeah, and you, and you get hung up. You wanna find the person who has time to give.

    5. KPKim Perell32:07

       Yes.

    6. SPSpeaker32:08

       Who cares about you, who wants to do that. And just because someone doesn't wanna do that doesn't mean they're a bad person, they're just not your mentor.

    7. KPKim Perell32:15

       Right.

    8. SPSpeaker32:16

       Because they might be doing it for someone else.

    9. KPKim Perell32:17

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker32:18

        Um-

    11. KPKim Perell32:18

        Yeah, the time's not right. That's okay.

    12. SPSpeaker32:20

        Yeah.

    13. KPKim Perell32:20

        And don't take it personally. Go out and find another one, right? Make a list of 10 people that you'd love to mentor, and start reaching out.

    14. SPSpeaker32:25

        Yeah.

    15. KPKim Perell32:26

        I mean, and again, take action, because people are like, "Oh Kim, I need a mentor." It's like, okay, well show up and ask. I mean, the reason I have some of these amazing people that I mentor is because they just asked.

    16. SPSpeaker32:36

        Yes. Yeah.

    17. KPKim Perell32:36

        Like-

    18. SPSpeaker32:37

        Yeah

    19. KPKim Perell32:37

        ... asking for help is so hard, and people don't do it because they feel embarrassed, they don't wanna look s- stupid, they don't wanna show weakness. But asking for help is the one thing that will help you exponentially increase your success.

    20. SPSpeaker32:51

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and sometimes it's small things where, like, people don't even ask. Like I had this... So I was on tour recently and I was flying Delta, and one of the air stewards, at the end of her service when we were about to land, she wrote me this really beautiful note and had left it near me because I'd fallen asleep on the flight. And so when I woke up, I read it, and they always give you these, I think it's these little wings from Delta or something like that on top of it. And so I read it, and it was really, really sweet, and I said to her when I was walking out, it was like a full note, like it was a real letter, and it was very, very sweet. And I just asked her on the way out, I was like, "Oh hey," like, "are you guys in he- are you in town tonight?" And she was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Well, why don't you come to my show?" And she ended up coming to the show, she had a great night, like it was amazing. It was a town that we had a big Junie presence in. I'm trying to remember what, what town it was, but, what city it was. But it was just one of those moments where, like, it was just a really thoughtful letter that really affected me and made... I didn't

17. 33:55 – 34:44

    Why Asking for Help Accelerates Growth

    1. SPSpeaker33:55

       mentor her, but made me wanna reciprocate. And so I found that sometimes expressing something really beautifully and thoughtfully about what you're doing, and with a mentor like you who's giving great advice, follow that up with saying, "Kim, you know you told me to do this. I did this, and this is what happened. Kim, you know you told me to do this. I reached out to this person." Because the mentor needs to know that you're putting it into practice. I think mentors get exhausted when they feel they're giving you time, they're giving you advice, they're giving you insight, but you're not moving.

    2. KPKim Perell34:24

       Oh yeah, I wouldn't mentor you very long. [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker34:26

       There you go.

    4. KPKim Perell34:27

       No, it's true.

    5. SPSpeaker34:27

       So talk to me about that relationship.

    6. KPKim Perell34:28

       No, I, I think le- you know, I'm here to give great advice. I don't have a lot of time. [laughs] If you're not going to take it, find a different mentor.

    7. SPSpeaker34:35

       Yeah.

    8. KPKim Perell34:35

       Like, I'm not the mentor for you. To, to be honest, it's, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

    9. SPSpeaker34:40

       Yeah. Yeah.

    10. KPKim Perell34:41

        I'm here to help take you to the next level,

18. 34:44 – 38:21

    How Books Can Mentor You Too

    1. KPKim Perell34:44

       and I wanna be able to give my experience to someone else that rea- I mean, people have been so grateful with their time for me, and I feel so lucky because it's been such a gift, that I want to give that and pay that forward. And so, I mean, even with the book, because I don't have enough time to mentor as many people as I would like to, I do have the time to write down what I've learned so other people don't have to make the same mistakes.

    2. SPSpeaker35:10

       Well, I think books are mentorship for that point.

    3. KPKim Perell35:12

       They are.

    4. SPSpeaker35:12

       I think that's a great, great point that I feel in my life some of my best mentors have been books.

    5. KPKim Perell35:18

       Yeah, me too.

    6. SPSpeaker35:19

       I really believe that.

    7. KPKim Perell35:20

       Oh my gosh.

    8. SPSpeaker35:21

       And I think this book's gonna be a great mentor for people who are making mistakes, who, who wanna be successful, and they're like, "I wanna be coached by-"

    9. KPKim Perell35:28

       Yeah

    10. SPSpeaker35:28

        ... you know, a really successful entrepreneur. That, the book is that.

    11. KPKim Perell35:31

        It is.

    12. SPSpeaker35:32

        And I think we undervalue and underestimate the value you can get from a book.

    13. KPKim Perell35:35

        Oh my gosh.

    14. SPSpeaker35:36

        I, I feel like I've been mentored by some of my favorite entrepreneurs who either died before I had the opportunity to meet them or are people that I haven't connected with through books.

    15. KPKim Perell35:47

        Well, and especially if you're young. When I started, I had no idea what I was doing, so I would just read books of old great operators-

    16. SPSpeaker35:57

        Mm-hmm

    17. KPKim Perell35:58

        ... and actually execute what they said. Like Jack Welch, I mean, he was GE. This is 30 years ago. You're just looking, reading books and being like, "Okay, I'll, I'll just do what this guy says."

    18. SPSpeaker36:06

        Yeah. [laughs]

    19. KPKim Perell36:06

        "I mean, he must know," right?

    20. SPSpeaker36:07

        Yeah.

    21. KPKim Perell36:07

        And so my hope is that to be able to share those experiences so you can say, "Okay, I know what to do when I'm in a toxic relationship, when I don't, you know, have the right partner." Like, I'm gonna give you tips to get out of situations that I was in that I wish someone would've told me, right?

    22. SPSpeaker36:21

        Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

    23. KPKim Perell36:21

        Oh my gosh.

    24. SPSpeaker36:22

        Yeah.

    25. KPKim Perell36:22

        Please help me, Kim.

    26. SPSpeaker36:23

        [laughs]

    27. KPKim Perell36:23

        I'm like, okay, here's the, here's the playbook. I'm giving you the playbook. Read these 10 and then come back and tell me if you need more.

    28. SPSpeaker36:29

        Yeah. What are you... When you say don't try to do everything alone, finding a mentor is important, but then also finding a business partner is important sometimes, or, like, co-founders and connecting. What would you say you look for in a business partner or a co-founder?

    29. KPKim Perell36:43

        I've learned there are four pillars that you need. Just as a house has four walls to stand, I think there's four great pillars that every successful person that I know needs. And one is a mentor, two is family and friends, supportive family and friends, right? Three is the team. It doesn't matter if you're a solo entrep- entrepreneur. It could be a consult, it could be someone in your network. And number four is peers.People that are actually in the day-to-day and can relate. Because my family can't relate to the trials that I go through every day.

    30. SPSpeaker37:13

        Yeah
19. 38:21 – 39:35

    The Four People Every Entrepreneur Needs

    1. SPSpeaker38:21

       with, very, very important to me, I really value and invest in. But the only person who can truly understand where I'm at in life is my peer-

    2. KPKim Perell38:27

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker38:28

       ... who's doing the same thing at the same level. And what's really interesting is those are the people you end up competing with, rather than actually collaborating with.

    4. KPKim Perell38:35

       Right.

    5. SPSpeaker38:36

       And I was reading Bob Iger's book, and he was talking about how at one point in time, and I may get a couple of the names wrong, but the principle was there. Bob Iger was saying that at one point, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, and a couple of other famous directors of their time used to preview their movies to each other.

    6. KPKim Perell38:58

       Love that.

    7. SPSpeaker38:58

       So they would actually get into a little room, a theater room, watch the movie, and ask for feedback.

    8. KPKim Perell39:03

       Yeah, it's the best advice ever

    9. SPSpeaker39:05

       ... ever. But that's because they were so confident that their style was so different that they didn't feel like they were competing. Does that make sense? Like, the reason why we're scared to do that today is you feel like someone will steal your idea. They trusted that these people were so creative and no one would need to steal the idea because everyone was a genius in that room. And so they actually trusted and respected each other's ideas.

    10. KPKim Perell39:26

        I love that.

    11. SPSpeaker39:27

        Yeah.

    12. KPKim Perell39:27

        I love that. And I think if you can find those peers, that makes such a difference because no one can relate to what you're going through except for the people already,

20. 39:35 – 41:58

    Why You Need the Right Peers Around You

    1. KPKim Perell39:35

       already going through, and they can give you great advice.

    2. SPSpeaker39:37

       Mm-hmm.

    3. KPKim Perell39:37

       Like, that advice is, "Oh, I've just been in that situation. Let me tell you what to do," in a hiring situation, in a partner situation. So I don't know if you should have a partner or not. I mean, that's a personal, like-

    4. SPSpeaker39:47

       Mm-hmm

    5. KPKim Perell39:47

       ... values-based question. But having other people to collaborate on the highs and lows and kinda behind the scenes, right? Because your team, you can't... If things go wrong, you can't tell your team some of the things you would tell a peer.

    6. SPSpeaker40:00

       Yeah.

    7. KPKim Perell40:00

       You need to [laughs] ... You're gonna tell them one thing as a leader. Then you can tell your peers, like, "Oh my gosh, it's crazy out there."

    8. SPSpeaker40:06

       Yeah. Yeah.

    9. KPKim Perell40:07

       Right?

    10. SPSpeaker40:07

        One of the, one of the mistakes you talk about is this idea of, like, having a toxic inner circle.

    11. KPKim Perell40:11

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SPSpeaker40:12

        Like, you gotta get rid of that. And so you say that one of the mistakes is keeping toxic relationships in your inner circle. I wanted to ask you, what's your take on starting a business with a family member?

    13. KPKim Perell40:25

        It's hard. But I think anything could work as long as you have very clear roles and responsibilities, right? You know what you do, I know what I do. I mean, think about you and Roddy. Obviously husband, wife. I actually have seen it work really well if everyone knows their strength. The problem it doesn't work well is if you wanna do what I wanna do and you think you can do it better.

    14. SPSpeaker40:47

        Yeah.

    15. KPKim Perell40:47

        And you're like, "Okay, this is never gonna work out," right?

    16. SPSpeaker40:50

        Yeah.

    17. KPKim Perell40:50

        You need to trust that you will be in charge of this, I will be in charge of this, and division of responsibilities. Like, that's number one. So actually I l- I love family businesses because I like legacy and I like the... I mean, in the best case scenario, my children will work with me, so I hope.

    18. SPSpeaker41:05

        Oh. [laughs]

    19. KPKim Perell41:05

        Right?

    20. SPSpeaker41:05

        I love that.

    21. KPKim Perell41:05

        That would be, like, the joy of-

    22. SPSpeaker41:06

        That'd be so cute. [laughs]

    23. KPKim Perell41:07

        Yes, it'd be so cute, right?

    24. SPSpeaker41:08

        Yeah.

    25. KPKim Perell41:08

        They're five, so I don't know.

    26. SPSpeaker41:09

        [laughs]

    27. KPKim Perell41:09

        We got some time.

    28. SPSpeaker41:10

        They figured it out.

    29. KPKim Perell41:11

        But, but, yes.

    30. SPSpeaker41:12

        Yeah.
21. 41:58 – 44:00

    Should You Start a Business with Family?

    1. KPKim Perell41:58

       I, I never wanna do it alone. I wanna do it with a team where you can share the joy and the fun and the challenges and the disappointments. Like, you're just not alone, right?

    2. SPSpeaker42:06

       Yeah. I've had a lot of friends who've, like, built a business with a friend or a family member, and then it's gone toxic or difficult. Have you found any great mentorship or insight on how to disconnect from that relationship once it's gone bad, that's in the healthiest way possible?

    3. KPKim Perell42:23

       Yes. I mean, I've had a lot of toxic relationships over time. And sometimes you don't even know it because they don't start toxic, right?

    4. SPSpeaker42:29

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KPKim Perell42:29

       They start as friends, and then over time they go really badly, and then you're in this relationship and you don't know how to get out. But what I look to do is really annually, I, I audit my inner circle-

    6. SPSpeaker42:43

       Hmm

    7. KPKim Perell42:43

       ... religiously.

    8. SPSpeaker42:44

       Tell us about that.

    9. KPKim Perell42:44

       Right?

    10. SPSpeaker42:45

        That's cool.

    11. KPKim Perell42:45

        So every year I look at all the people in my business, all the people in my personal life that I'm spending time with, and if they energize and inspire me and encourage me to achieve my dreams, like, I put a plus. Very simple s- [laughs] this is a very simple exercise. If they are negative, critical, tell me why it's not gonna work, I put a minus, and then I actively audit them out.

    12. SPSpeaker43:06

        [laughs]

    13. KPKim Perell43:07

        I know it seems mean. You know, people are like, "What about my family?" I know. I get it. But-If you want to achieve great things, you will not be able to do it with toxic people around you. They will drag you down.

    14. SPSpeaker43:18

        Yeah. It's so true.

    15. KPKim Perell43:20

        Like, it's harsh.

    16. SPSpeaker43:20

        And it's hard because people go, "How do I cut out my family? How do I leave the people that I live with?"

    17. KPKim Perell43:26

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker43:26

        In one sense. It's, it's a-

    19. KPKim Perell43:28

        Yeah. I, I-

    20. SPSpeaker43:28

        Yeah

    21. KPKim Perell43:28

        ... yes, it's hard.

    22. SPSpeaker43:29

        It's hard.

    23. KPKim Perell43:29

        But it's also about balance, right? So I understand, that, I mean, that's an internal struggle that I can't [laughs] help with.

    24. SPSpeaker43:34

        Yeah, yeah.

    25. KPKim Perell43:35

        But how do you, you know, my advice is about balance. So if you are in a situation where you can't leave your parents, obviously, but you can minimize the time that you're spending with them.

    26. SPSpeaker43:46

        Mm-hmm.

    27. KPKim Perell43:46

        Right? Because those thoughts that they're putting in your head, you know, once you leave, and this is what happened to me when I was in a very toxic relationship, you think about it. It over- it consumes you.

    28. SPSpeaker43:56

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    29. KPKim Perell43:57

        Right? And then it seeps into every part of your life, your business part,

22. 44:00 – 46:02

    How to Audit Your Inner Circle

    1. KPKim Perell44:00

       your personal life. And you have to eventually audit it out in order to be able to move forward, in order to grow. And it s- seems very harsh-

    2. SPSpeaker44:08

       Mm

    3. KPKim Perell44:09

       ... but honestly, game changer.

    4. SPSpeaker44:11

       Talk to me about the connection between toxic relationships in your life and money. How do the two connect?

    5. KPKim Perell44:18

       If you have toxic relationships, likely you're not gonna have a lot of money. [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker44:21

       Yeah, why? How, how... Talk to me about that connection and how you've seen it transpire.

    7. KPKim Perell44:26

       I think that having been in some toxic relationships, they're not looking out for your best interest, and if you want to live to your highest and best use and your greatest potential, you can't afford to have people that are draining your energy.

    8. SPSpeaker44:41

       Mm.

    9. KPKim Perell44:41

       Because you need that in order to create and ideate and innovate and build. So the more you have pressures that are dragging you down, the less likely you will be to be successful.

    10. SPSpeaker44:54

        Mm-hmm.

    11. KPKim Perell44:54

        Unfortunately.

    12. SPSpeaker44:55

        Yeah, yeah.

    13. KPKim Perell44:55

        I mean, it's just truth, right?

    14. SPSpeaker44:56

        Yeah.

    15. KPKim Perell44:56

        And so I really look hard at who I spend time with, and surrounding myself with people that love me-

    16. SPSpeaker45:05

        Mm-hmm

    17. KPKim Perell45:05

        ... want to see the best for me, believe in me. It doesn't mean they can't challenge me-

    18. SPSpeaker45:09

        Mm

    19. KPKim Perell45:09

        ... which is great, but I don't want to be with someone that's gonna tell me why my dreams aren't gonna work.

    20. SPSpeaker45:15

        Yeah. Yeah.

    21. KPKim Perell45:16

        Like, that's not gonna work-

    22. SPSpeaker45:17

        Yeah

    23. KPKim Perell45:17

        ... because the likelihood, I mean, you have to be so confident in your dreams that having other people talk in your ear all the time, terrible, right?

    24. SPSpeaker45:25

        Yeah, yeah, unless they're constructive-

    25. KPKim Perell45:27

        Constructive love

    26. SPSpeaker45:28

        ... thoughtful insight. Yeah. With love it, it doesn't work, and, and, and I think that's spot on. I think, I love what you said. There's two sides to it. The one side is you've got to limit your time with them as well. It's agency, because we can't blame our lack of success on the people around us, because then we're not taking responsibility and agency for the change we can make. And I always say to people, for every one negative person in your life, find three positive people, because you have the percentage. Now 25% of your life is spent with negative people, but 75% of your life is surrounded by positive energy, and you can do that. Today there's so many

23. 46:02 – 47:17

    How Toxic People Drain Your Energy and Money

    1. SPSpeaker46:02

       clubs and events and communities all around, just dotted everywhere, like entrepreneurial societies just popping up everywhere because all entrepreneurs are looking for community, 'cause 99% of them didn't have family support-

    2. KPKim Perell46:16

       Right

    3. SPSpeaker46:17

       ... because they had a crazy idea or they took a risk or whatever it may have been. So you're not alone. There's gonna be other people like you in the community who are looking for that as well.

    4. KPKim Perell46:25

       Right, and reaching out and being proactive, right? And it goes back to asking for help and being vulnerable and saying you don't know everything. Like, who wants to be with someone that knows everything, right?

    5. SPSpeaker46:35

       Yeah, yeah.

    6. KPKim Perell46:35

       And usually the toxic people are self-imposing their limiting beliefs on you.

    7. SPSpeaker46:40

       Mm.

    8. KPKim Perell46:40

       They're telling you it's not gonna work, you can't do it, because that's what they think.

    9. SPSpeaker46:43

       Mm.

    10. KPKim Perell46:43

        Not what you think.

    11. SPSpeaker46:44

        Yeah.

    12. KPKim Perell46:45

        And so it's trying to make sure that is this what they think or is what I think? And it's hard. If they keep telling you what they think, so it's v- it- it becomes noisy in your head, right?

    13. SPSpeaker46:53

        Yeah, and it's what they think because someone told them that.

    14. KPKim Perell46:56

        Right.

    15. SPSpeaker46:56

        And-

    16. KPKim Perell46:56

        So you gotta stop the pattern

    17. SPSpeaker46:57

        ... exactly, you gotta stop the pattern for your family, for your-

    18. KPKim Perell47:00

        Yes

    19. SPSpeaker47:00

        ... for your, for your community.

    20. KPKim Perell47:01

        For your children.

    21. SPSpeaker47:02

        Yeah.

    22. KPKim Perell47:02

        Right?

    23. SPSpeaker47:02

        Absolutely. Absolutely.

    24. KPKim Perell47:04

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker47:04

        And people forget too, they try and... You know, I remember having this conversation with my mom 'cause she left, she had to leave her country when she was 16 years old and move to England. And when I was moving to America at 28,

24. 47:17 – 48:56

    The Power of Taking Initiative

    1. SPSpeaker47:17

       she was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe, like, you're moving, like, full on, like, to another country," and you know, all the rest of it. I was like, "Mom, you did it when you were 16."

    2. KPKim Perell47:25

       Yeah. [laughs] Oh gosh. Go mom.

    3. SPSpeaker47:26

       Like, you did it when you were 16. And she did the same when I was becoming a monk at 22. She was like, "You're going to India and you're gonna be away, and like," you know. And I was like, "Mom, you moved when you were 16."

    4. KPKim Perell47:34

       Right.

    5. SPSpeaker47:35

       Like, to a country with no education, no money, and you figured it out. Like, you know, and it's, and it was so amazing to see that, like, mom's protective love.

    6. KPKim Perell47:44

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker47:45

       Like, I know it came from a place of love, but it was like, "But Mom, you had did something way harder than I'm doing."

    8. KPKim Perell47:50

       Yeah, she's trying to protect you, it's so pure, right?

    9. SPSpeaker47:52

       She's trying to protect me.

    10. KPKim Perell47:53

        Yes.

    11. SPSpeaker47:53

        It's a mom's love, but it's really interesting because it's counterintuitive-

    12. KPKim Perell47:56

        Right

    13. SPSpeaker47:56

        ... to the fact that she had to do it.

    14. KPKim Perell47:58

        Right.

    15. SPSpeaker47:58

        She had to leave her parents to build a life for them and, you know, all the rest of it, and be able to provide for her family, but we, we forget that. And so sometimes we pass down, even though we lived a really difficult, challenging life, we pass down insecurity to our kids.

    16. KPKim Perell48:14

        Right. Oh, yeah, for sure.

    17. SPSpeaker48:15

        Not passing down freedom-

    18. KPKim Perell48:17

        Yeah

    19. SPSpeaker48:17

        ... which is a really fascinating thing.

    20. KPKim Perell48:19

        It's interesting, right?

    21. SPSpeaker48:20

        You know what I mean? Like-

    22. KPKim Perell48:21

        Yeah, yeah. And you're, it, it's, you can't help it, right?

    23. SPSpeaker48:23

        'Cause you want to pass down security-

    24. KPKim Perell48:25

        Yeah, you do, right

    25. SPSpeaker48:25

        ... 'cause you didn't have it, not realizing that it was the same thing that gave you the capacity and the intensity-

    26. KPKim Perell48:32

        Right

    27. SPSpeaker48:32

        ... to become a resilient... Like when you said people have gotta have resilience and grit, you don't get resilience and grit by everything going your way. You get resilience and grit by being knocked down, things-

    28. KPKim Perell48:42

        Yes

    29. SPSpeaker48:42

        ... being hard and difficult. Like, you know, that's what it takes to build muscle. So it's funny how we try and make everything easy for everyone else.

    30. KPKim Perell48:50

        Even with my own children, making sure that, I mean, our- their life obviously is not the same life I grew

25. 48:56 – 51:19

    Don’t Let Your Past Limit Someone Else’s Future

    1. KPKim Perell48:56

       up in.

    2. SPSpeaker48:56

       [laughs]

    3. KPKim Perell48:56

       We're, like, trying to pay the bills and go have heat. You know, they obviously don't have the same challenges, but how do we instill the same work ethic in them? That's what I'm thinking all the time. I mean, it's just like a struggle in my own mind. Like, what do I need to do? How do, like, cho- like, everything in our family is just looking at how do we instill... And passion, right? Like, we want them to have passion about what they do and what they want to create. So we have to be very thoughtful and mindful about not self-projectingHow we grew up-

    4. SPSpeaker49:25

       Yeah, definitely

    5. KPKim Perell49:26

       ... onto them.

    6. SPSpeaker49:26

       Definitely. Kim, how many people have you hired in your lifetime?

    7. KPKim Perell49:30

       Oh, thousands.

    8. SPSpeaker49:31

       Yeah.

    9. KPKim Perell49:31

       Thousands.

    10. SPSpeaker49:32

        Thousands.

    11. KPKim Perell49:32

        Thousands, yes. The last-

    12. SPSpeaker49:34

        Wow

    13. KPKim Perell49:34

        ... company I ran had over 1,000 employees. I mean, I've- thousands.

    14. SPSpeaker49:37

        And how many of them did you personally interview, look at resumes, and actually get that deeply with?

    15. KPKim Perell49:42

        Uh, I mean, over 20 years, probably at least over 500, maybe more.

    16. SPSpeaker49:47

        Wow. When you manage people, how did you set up your teams? Like, how many people maximum do you personally lead and manage? Did you find a sweet spot?

    17. KPKim Perell49:54

        Yeah. Usually anything over eight was... I mean, if you have 1,000 people globally, anything over eight starts to get very difficult. To actual-

    18. SPSpeaker50:02

        Why did you find eight manageable?

    19. KPKim Perell50:04

        I don't know. Just because I could at least have one-on-ones with them. I could spend time with them. I could still have the personal connection-

    20. SPSpeaker50:10

        Mm

    21. KPKim Perell50:10

        ... to make sure that, that they had knew the vision, they knew I cared, and it was... And usually it was 'cause we had offices all around the world, so usually those eight were actually distributed. So I had a country manager in Tel Aviv, one in Australia. So dependent on what the function was. But eight was where the sweet spot for me. I think some people can manage a lot more, but in order to really scale, like, a billion dollars on annual basis, that was where I found what was, like, perfect.

    22. SPSpeaker50:38

        Wow. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I, I think that's fair. And when you think about you only have seven days a week-

    23. KPKim Perell50:43

        Yeah

    24. SPSpeaker50:43

        ... and you only have five work days-

    25. KPKim Perell50:44

        Right

    26. SPSpeaker50:45

        ... if you're managing more than one person a day-

    27. KPKim Perell50:47

        It's very hard

    28. SPSpeaker50:48

        ... it gets hard.

    29. KPKim Perell50:49

        Yeah.

    30. SPSpeaker50:49

        And so eight is, you know, at that, like, what-
26. 51:19 – 53:17

    How to Lead and Manage People Effectively

    1. KPKim Perell51:19

       they don't wanna be put under layers of people. Like, there's different-

    2. SPSpeaker51:22

       Yeah

    3. KPKim Perell51:22

       ... challenges with every phase of a business.

    4. SPSpeaker51:25

       So the reason I ask you that is because I actually have four resumes here for you.

    5. KPKim Perell51:28

       Are we gonna hire someone?

    6. SPSpeaker51:30

       And I want you to tell me-

    7. KPKim Perell51:31

       Okay

    8. SPSpeaker51:32

       ... who we should be hiring.

    9. KPKim Perell51:33

       Okay, love it. Love it.

    10. SPSpeaker51:34

        So I'm gonna hand you these. You can take a second-

    11. KPKim Perell51:35

        Wait

    12. SPSpeaker51:35

        ... to look through them.

    13. KPKim Perell51:36

        What's the, what's the position?

    14. SPSpeaker51:37

        These are all for different roles.

    15. KPKim Perell51:39

        Okay.

    16. SPSpeaker51:40

        And one's for a creative director, one's a product manager, one's a marketing specialist, one's an operations manager.

    17. KPKim Perell51:45

        Okay.

    18. SPSpeaker51:45

        So they're not competing.

    19. KPKim Perell51:46

        Okay.

    20. SPSpeaker51:46

        But I want you to be able to look through them and tell me what you think is good and bad, because a lot of what we heard from our audience was that, "Jay, I'm applying to 400 companies, and I feel like I'm ending up on a stack that never gets looked at."

    21. KPKim Perell52:01

        Hmm. Mm-hmm.

    22. SPSpeaker52:01

        "I don't know how to stand out."

    23. KPKim Perell52:02

        I'm gonna tell you how.

    24. SPSpeaker52:03

        Tell us what's standing out and what's not standing out.

    25. KPKim Perell52:05

        Say I post a job on Linke- LinkedIn. I get 3,000 resumes. No way our hiring manager, anyone can go through them. If you wanna stand out and you want that job, you better find the hiring manager, DM them, send them a letter. I don't care how you get ahold of them, and tell them how bad you want that job, because most people just send in their resume and hope someone's gonna call you. Nobody's calling you. If you really want that job, you will find the hiring person and get in there. So dare to be different. I think that goes with the guy that you said earlier that just started making content.

    26. SPSpeaker52:39

        Yeah.

    27. KPKim Perell52:39

        You have to be proactive. So forget just the resumes. No one's gonna look through three... I literally will not look through 3,000 resumes.

    28. SPSpeaker52:46

        Mm.

    29. KPKim Perell52:46

        I mean, maybe the hiring manager will somewhere, but-

    30. SPSpeaker52:49

        No, it's the truth
27. 53:17 – 57:51

    What Actually Gets You Hired Today?

    1. KPKim Perell53:17

       increased adoption by 35. They gave me data that supported-

    2. SPSpeaker53:20

       Mm

    3. KPKim Perell53:21

       ... the job that I wanna hire them for. I mean, honestly, they launched analytics feature resulting in 2.3 million in the first year. Everything is data-driven.

    4. SPSpeaker53:30

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KPKim Perell53:30

       And I like that. I, I mean, it- they are a product manager of growth. They're gonna track the growth. Amazing. Six years, 12 years, none of it actually matters to me. I mean, honestly, like, great, you have experience, but I wanna know what you, you are doing right now.

    6. SPSpeaker53:44

       Yeah.

    7. KPKim Perell53:45

       So I like that.

    8. SPSpeaker53:45

       Yeah.

    9. KPKim Perell53:45

       I like that.

    10. SPSpeaker53:45

        You wanna back the claim up. You can't just be like, "I'm a marketing specialist with-

    11. KPKim Perell53:49

        No

    12. SPSpeaker53:49

        ... six years experience."

    13. KPKim Perell53:50

        Like, tell me-

    14. SPSpeaker53:50

        But it's like, tell me-

    15. KPKim Perell53:50

        ... the KPIs that you actually-

    16. SPSpeaker53:52

        Yeah

    17. KPKim Perell53:52

        ... tell me what you did differently and how you grew the company. But the biggest thing I would also do, and this is what I regret and huge mistake, is, you know, you overlook it. I, I call it the POP. They l- she looks perfect on paper, right? Amazing. You know how many people I've hired that look perfect on paper and then are disaster once they get in?

    18. SPSpeaker54:11

        Mm.

    19. KPKim Perell54:12

        Oh my gosh, so many. So the one thing that, I mean, I talk about in the book, first I have specific interview questions that I ask-

    20. SPSpeaker54:19

        Tell us some of your favorite ones-

    21. KPKim Perell54:20

        ... to make sure

    22. SPSpeaker54:20

        ... actually. Yeah

    23. KPKim Perell54:20

        Okay, so one would be, in three months, what would I learn now that I will not learn during this interview process-

    24. SPSpeaker54:29

        Mm

    25. KPKim Perell54:29

        ... about you?

    26. SPSpeaker54:30

        Mm.

    27. KPKim Perell54:30

        'Cause I, I don't know. I mean, you only have so much time.

    28. SPSpeaker54:33

        Yeah.

    29. KPKim Perell54:33

        What would your last hiring manager tell me that the- they would wanna change about you?

    30. SPSpeaker54:40

        Mm.
28. 57:51 – 1:00:01

    Going the Extra Mile Sets You Apart

    1. KPKim Perell57:51

       You're from my hometown.

    2. SPSpeaker57:52

       Yeah.

    3. KPKim Perell57:52

       You went to my school. You like my favorite sports team. Start going through.

    4. SPSpeaker57:56

       Yeah.

    5. KPKim Perell57:56

       Your, your birthday's in March like mine. Yay, me too. We're Pisces. Whatever that connection point that you can find and make it personal, ground it in personal connection, the likelihood you will be successful is far greater.

    6. SPSpeaker58:08

       Yeah. I would always reach out to... When I was applying for jobs initially, I would always reach out to alumnus of my university who are at the company that I'd like to be at, because they're just three years ahead of me or five years ahead of me.

    7. KPKim Perell58:21

       Right.

    8. SPSpeaker58:21

       And I'm like, "Hey, you went to the same school as me. I'd love to follow in your footsteps. 15 minutes of coffee?" Like-

    9. KPKim Perell58:26

       Right

    10. SPSpeaker58:26

        ... tea. "Right, can I hang with you for 15 minutes? If you can't, I'd love an intro at the company." And all of a sudden you've just skipped those 3,000 resumes that are sitting there and you're right at the top of the pile.

    11. KPKim Perell58:37

        The biggest mistake people make is not asking. I did that. When I wanted to go to college, I wanted to go to Duke, and I had a family friend that had gone there. He was alumni. I didn't ask him to ma- write me a recommendation because I just felt I was wasting his time. What a mistake. I didn't leverage the, the assets I had. Obviously, I didn't get in [laughs] and I went to Pepperdine. But regardless, if I would've asked for help, if I would've asked someone for the job referral, for the contact, people want to help. I think it's our own internal voices telling ourselves that people don't want to help.

    12. SPSpeaker59:15

        So this might be uncomfortable, but I think it's important to say. So someone will sometimes present me an opportunity, but they'll present it in a way that's trying to make it out like it's mutually beneficial, but really it's just beneficial to them. And now it's not an ask, it's a presentation. Whereas if that person would've just asked and said, "Hey, Jay, it would mean the world to me if you did this," it's gonna be really easy for me to say yes.

    13. KPKim Perell59:41

        'Cause you wanna help.

    14. SPSpeaker59:41

        Because I wanna help. But I don't wanna ma- be made to feel like this is some mutually beneficial thing when it isn't, and I just wanna be clear on that. And that happened to me yesterday with someone, and I, I don't have the relationship with them to tell them that. But I was just thinking about that and I was like, "No, be humble enough to ask." And it's something I've loved watching you do, you know, building

29. 1:00:01 – 1:04:03

    The Biggest Mistake Is Not Asking

    1. SPSpeaker1:00:01

       a beverage company with us and everything. Like, I see you in every room. You're always happy to be the person who asks the most ridiculous question or the hardest question despite being such a successful entrepreneur, and it's what makes you so successful, because you're humble enough to ask the question. And people are willing to help you. I've seen it. We've had-

    2. KPKim Perell1:00:18

       Mm-hmm

    3. SPSpeaker1:00:18

       ... buyers, we've had investors, we've had friends, we've had board members who are willing to help you and me because we both are okay being like we don't know. Like, I don't walk into beverage as, um, an industry and go, "Oh, because I am really good at doing podcasting, that means I'm, I really know what beverage is all about." It's like I don't have a clue, and, and I'm okay with that. Like, that's not a weakness, that's my strength, because now I'm willing to ask questions that I don't want. And so I think sometimes having humility in the ask-

    4. KPKim Perell1:00:48

       Yes

    5. SPSpeaker1:00:48

       ... is actually more endearing and attractive than trying to make it look like a proposition-

    6. KPKim Perell1:00:53

       Oh, for sure

    7. SPSpeaker1:00:54

       ... that feels like it's... Does that make sense?

    8. KPKim Perell1:00:55

       Yes, for sure.

    9. SPSpeaker1:00:55

       I don't know if that's landing. Yeah.

    10. KPKim Perell1:00:56

        It all goes to mentorship, too, right? Because I, and I ask, we ask people all the time 'cause we have no idea, right? We're asking our way to success.

    11. SPSpeaker1:01:05

        Mm-hmm.

    12. KPKim Perell1:01:05

        Over and over again. We're asking for the intro. And someone c- people could say no, and people sends it, can say yes, but at least we asked. And just if you only take one thing away, just start asking.

    13. SPSpeaker1:01:17

        Yeah.

    14. KPKim Perell1:01:17

        Again, what's the downside? You're, "I don't want to get rejected." Again, it doesn't matter. How are you gonna move forward if you don't put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

    15. SPSpeaker1:01:27

        Yeah. It's, it's something you really live by, and I watch you do it all the time, and it's always so impressive to see someone so successful do that because... And, and I, and I think it's actually a trait of very successful people. They're very happy-... to n- know what they know and not know what they don't know.

    16. KPKim Perell1:01:43

        Right.

    17. SPSpeaker1:01:43

        And, and they're not trying to... And, and I think sometimes when we're on the come up, we, we feel we have to pretend like we know stuff in order to make sure that we don't look stupid, and then you end up looking stupid in the process.

    18. KPKim Perell1:01:55

        Right. You don't want to show weakness.

    19. SPSpeaker1:01:57

        Yeah.

    20. KPKim Perell1:01:57

        But the reality is I have no i- idea what I'm doing.

    21. SPSpeaker1:02:00

        Yeah.

    22. KPKim Perell1:02:00

        And I'm learning along the way, and I'm smart, and I can pick it up very quickly. But I actually have to tell you that I have no idea what I'm doing. [laughs]

    23. SPSpeaker1:02:06

        Yeah, yeah. And that's the important part. You're smart and you pick things up quickly.

    24. KPKim Perell1:02:10

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker1:02:10

        That's really important. You know, one of the biggest mistakes, and this is the last one I want to talk about, there's 10 in the book that Kim tells personal stories, shares insights. Like she said, the interview questions you should ask. Like, the book is packed with so much great advice, and I want you to really think about the mistakes that she's sharing. But we all feel like we're not qualified. And I think women-

    26. KPKim Perell1:02:33

        Mm-hmm

    27. SPSpeaker1:02:33

        ... statistically feel more unqualified than men. And you write about this-

    28. KPKim Perell1:02:37

        Yeah

    29. SPSpeaker1:02:37

        ... and talk about this.

    30. KPKim Perell1:02:39

        Yeah.
30. 1:04:03 – 1:07:07

    Why So Many of Us Feel Unqualified

    1. SPSpeaker1:04:03

       Right

    2. KPKim Perell1:04:03

       ... in my head why I was not qualified enough. And after that happened, I said I would never do that again. I would just say yes and figure it out. So the next time someone asked me on a board, obviously I said yes. But you have to overcome those limiting beliefs that you are not qualified enough. And yeah, women especially, right? We just don't think we... We think we need more experience, we think we need another degree, we think we need a better pitch. I mean, I love to invest in women startups. I don't even see a lot of them because the guys will come pitch with their deck at 70%. The women that I see, they've perfected that deck. It looks amazing. And I, unfortunately, I don't want it to look amazing. I want... I know your business is going to change. So come. Like, just put yourself out there, right? Like, you gotta just put yourself out there. Be okay getting rejected. Even if you think you're underqualified, doesn't matter, do it anyway. You'll figure it out along the way.

    3. SPSpeaker1:04:59

       Mm.

    4. KPKim Perell1:05:00

       And so learning that for me was a huge learning lesson. And I talk about how do I overcome that? How do I start believing and gain the confidence that I am not underqualified? I'm just learning along the way.

    5. SPSpeaker1:05:13

       Yeah, absolutely. It's such an empowering message to hear. Kim, is there anything I haven't asked you today that you wish I did or any story that you wanted to share that I haven't brought out of you?

    6. KPKim Perell1:05:22

       I think the only one that maybe is just how important pivoting is to a business-

    7. SPSpeaker1:05:28

       Mm

    8. KPKim Perell1:05:28

       ... or a relationship or anything you're doing.

    9. SPSpeaker1:05:31

       Mm.

    10. KPKim Perell1:05:31

        And how, listen, 90% of businesses pivot. I've invested over 100 companies. Probably one hasn't pivoted the business model.

    11. SPSpeaker1:05:41

        Mm.

    12. KPKim Perell1:05:41

        One. Okay. So if you're out there with an idea or a business or a plan and you're stuck in the plan and you put your head in the sand, you say, "Market's changing and I'm not gonna- I'm just gonna keep doing the same thing," that's a mistake.

    13. SPSpeaker1:05:57

        Mm.

    14. KPKim Perell1:05:57

        Because if you look at the most successful companies, YouTube started as a dating site. Twitter, a podcast platform. Shopify started selling snowboards. I mean, every single company has pivoted. So you just have to have the courage to start.

    15. SPSpeaker1:06:11

        Mm.

    16. KPKim Perell1:06:11

        I mean, look at Juni, right?

    17. SPSpeaker1:06:13

        Yeah, yeah.

    18. KPKim Perell1:06:14

        We pivoted.

    19. SPSpeaker1:06:15

        So many times.

    20. KPKim Perell1:06:15

        So many times.

    21. SPSpeaker1:06:16

        Yeah.

    22. KPKim Perell1:06:16

        And we'll keep pivoting-

    23. SPSpeaker1:06:17

        Yeah

    24. KPKim Perell1:06:17

        ... because that's what successful people do.

    25. SPSpeaker1:06:20

        Mm.

    26. KPKim Perell1:06:20

        So give yourself permission to pivot. I think I talk about this a lot. Failing to pivot is a such a huge mistake. And recognizing when to pivot and when to not-

    27. SPSpeaker1:06:29

        Mm

    28. KPKim Perell1:06:29

        ... I mean, that's a, that's a whole... We- I talk about that as well.

    29. SPSpeaker1:06:32

        Mm-hmm.

    30. KPKim Perell1:06:32

        And it's important to know that. But just knowing that it's okay to make change.
31. 1:07:07 – 1:10:13

    Pivoting Is the Secret to Success

    1. KPKim Perell1:07:07

       Right.

    2. SPSpeaker1:07:07

       Like, they used to mail DVDs.

    3. KPKim Perell1:07:09

       I know. Mark wrote the forward to my book-

    4. SPSpeaker1:07:11

       Exactly

    5. KPKim Perell1:07:11

       ... because he can relate so much to how mis- how many mistakes they made, right-

    6. SPSpeaker1:07:17

       Yeah

    7. KPKim Perell1:07:17

       ... on the rise of Netflix. And look, yeah, they started mail order DVDs, now they're a streaming company.

    8. SPSpeaker1:07:22

       Yeah.

    9. KPKim Perell1:07:23

       That's an insane pivot.

    10. SPSpeaker1:07:24

        Totally. It's, it's so different. They're producing films now. They-

    11. KPKim Perell1:07:27

        Yeah

    12. SPSpeaker1:07:28

        ... have their own original slate. They're... You know, it's, it's unbelievable. And that is the biggest thing. Everyone out there who's worrying about having the perfect business plan is that actually you just gotta believe in something that you wanna commit your life to or commit the next couple of decades to.... in the area of what you're trying to do. Like, you know, they were trying to entertain and provide home entertainment, and Netflix sending DVDs and being the platform it is today is still home entertainment. And so if you have a goal and a vision of how you're trying to help and change the world, like ours with Juni is we want people to have healthy habits, we want people to have healthy options, we want people to have happiness in their life.

    13. KPKim Perell1:08:06

        Yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker1:08:06

        We want them to have a happy mind.

    15. KPKim Perell1:08:08

        Yes.

    16. SPSpeaker1:08:08

        And so if we want them to have that, that could mean so many different things.

    17. KPKim Perell1:08:12

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:08:13

        It's, you know, it's bad when you just go, "Well, no, my only purpose is to build this one thing."

    19. KPKim Perell1:08:18

        Right.

    20. SPSpeaker1:08:18

        It's like, well, no, I'm, I'm standing for more. Talk to us about that, of when you need to pivot and when you know you need to pivot and when you shouldn't. How, how do you get that balance right?

    21. KPKim Perell1:08:30

        I think you need to know if you have product market fit. So if people are willing to buy the product, you're in a great place. The way you know if you need to pivot is, are your sales declining or no sales at all? I mean, it's a revenue sign, right? Or, uh, are your sales dropping? Okay, well, that's not a good sign. You have to look outside and think, "Okay, the market's changing, the customers are ch- something's changing, and I have to find an area that I think I can win in."

    22. SPSpeaker1:08:58

        Mm-hmm.

    23. KPKim Perell1:08:59

        And be bold enough to be able to try it, right?

    24. SPSpeaker1:09:02

        Mm-hmm.

    25. KPKim Perell1:09:02

        Like, I'm not saying overnight pivot your entire business, but you have to be able to start and try and test and learn-

    26. SPSpeaker1:09:10

        Mm-hmm

    27. KPKim Perell1:09:11

        ... and adapt. And I think today in the age of AI, so many things... I mean, this isn't just pivoting businesses, this is pivoting how you think in your mind, right?

    28. SPSpeaker1:09:19

        Mm-hmm.

    29. KPKim Perell1:09:19

        Because AI's coming, so you need to develop an agile mind, flexible mind that when something happens, which it's gonna do, I don't know what's gonna happen, but your mentality is that to adapt with it.

    30. SPSpeaker1:09:33

        Mm-hmm.
32. 1:10:13 – 1:11:53

    How to Know When It’s Time to Pivot

    1. SPSpeaker1:10:13

       question is, what is the best business or entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

    2. KPKim Perell1:10:19

       No one is successful alone.

    3. SPSpeaker1:10:21

       That's great que- great answer. Question number two, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

    4. KPKim Perell1:10:28

       The worst advice that I've received is that you need a lot of capital to start a business.

    5. SPSpeaker1:10:34

       Hmm. And you don't?

    6. KPKim Perell1:10:35

       No. S- I started at my kitchen table. No.

    7. SPSpeaker1:10:39

       Yeah. How much did you start with?

    8. KPKim Perell1:10:41

       My grandma gave me a $10,000 loan.

    9. SPSpeaker1:10:44

       And that's what it took?

    10. KPKim Perell1:10:45

        That's what it took to build a $100 million company.

    11. SPSpeaker1:10:48

        That's incredible. That's truly incredible.

    12. KPKim Perell1:10:51

        If I can do it, so can anyone else listening out there. You just have to have the courage-

    13. SPSpeaker1:10:56

        Yeah

    14. KPKim Perell1:10:57

        ... to do it, regardless of circumstance, regardless of everyone telling you you can't. I was blessed to have my nanny who bet on me, and that's why I pay it forward and that's why I invest in others, and I acknowledge that it was amazing gift. But you do not need a lot of capital to start, especially today.

    15. SPSpeaker1:11:11

        I think a lot of people feel like it's hard, 'cause they're like, "Well, I don't how to code. Code is cost a lot of money," or, "I wanna build an app," or, "I wanna build something with AI and I don't," you know, obviously, to be able to do that. So how, how do you get your head around that? Like, what does that take?

    16. KPKim Perell1:11:24

        I... This is where you need... You're not gonna be able to do it alone.

    17. SPSpeaker1:11:27

        Yeah, you're gonna have to find someone.

    18. KPKim Perell1:11:27

        Y- you're gonna have to find someone to partner with. For me, once I got out of the mindset of I'm a lone wolf, I'm gonna build this, and I hired and partnered with a CTO, and I had a head of sales. Like, you have to find people that complement your weaknesses and, and your strengths, right? And that's where the game changes. You're not gonna be able to build... If you're not a coder, you have to find someone-

    19. SPSpeaker1:11:49

        Yeah. Yeah

    20. KPKim Perell1:11:49

        ... a partner that can, right?

    21. SPSpeaker1:11:51

        Yeah. Yeah.

    22. KPKim Perell1:11:51

        I can't start a tech company and

33. 1:11:53 – 1:15:51

    Kim on Final Five

    1. KPKim Perell1:11:53

       not be a CTO.

    2. SPSpeaker1:11:54

       Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, question number three, what's something you used to believe to be true about entrepreneurship, but it's not true anymore?

    3. KPKim Perell1:12:01

       I used to believe that skills beat passion.

    4. SPSpeaker1:12:06

       Hmm.

    5. KPKim Perell1:12:07

       And now as an entrepreneur, passion beats skill.

    6. SPSpeaker1:12:11

       That's good.

    7. KPKim Perell1:12:12

       You can learn skills. You cannot... That passion is-

    8. SPSpeaker1:12:14

       That's so good

    9. KPKim Perell1:12:15

       ... what will-

    10. SPSpeaker1:12:15

        You are the most passionate person I know, for sure.

    11. KPKim Perell1:12:17

        And that will drive you to success, regardless of circumstance.

    12. SPSpeaker1:12:21

        I... Do you know what? I couldn't agree more. That's such a great... I'm so glad you-

    13. KPKim Perell1:12:24

        Yeah

    14. SPSpeaker1:12:24

        ... sat and thought about that one. That's a great one, because I used to also hire people based on skills, and now I hire people who are passionate and coachable-

    15. KPKim Perell1:12:32

        Right

    16. SPSpeaker1:12:33

        ... more than skills. Because I think-

    17. KPKim Perell1:12:33

        You can learn the skills, right?

    18. SPSpeaker1:12:35

        ... the skills are always changing too.

    19. KPKim Perell1:12:36

        Yes.

    20. SPSpeaker1:12:36

        Like, AI's changing what skills are needed. Like, half the skills we just get AI to do. So what I need is a passionate person who's coachable, who wants to learn and be adaptable. You're so right. Great answer.

    21. KPKim Perell1:12:46

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:12:47

        Really, really great answer. I love that question. When it, when you get the answer fit-

    23. KPKim Perell1:12:50

        Mm-hmm. You're like, "Okay"

    24. SPSpeaker1:12:51

        ... it's like you find so... Yeah, no, it's such a good one, 'cause I feel like, yeah, for years, I used to just hire people based on skills, and then you either find out they're lying about their skills-

    25. KPKim Perell1:12:58

        Right

    26. SPSpeaker1:12:58

        ... or they don't really have the skills, or they have the skills, but then they're not passionate to learn other skills, which you always need. Yeah.

    27. KPKim Perell1:13:04

        You can't train passion.

    28. SPSpeaker1:13:05

        You can't train passion.

    29. KPKim Perell1:13:06

        No.

    30. SPSpeaker1:13:06

        Yeah. You can't. Okay, so that's a question. Question number four, why can't we train passion? Where, where does passion come from? Where... What is that? That's a great point. Even if there's not a question in it, it's a great point.

Episode duration: 1:15:51