World Famous Interior Designer: How Your Space Can Affect Your MOOD | Kelly Wearstler

Kelly Wearstler 0:00 Your home reflects who you are, you know? What, what are you collecting? And it's just like how you dress.

Jay Shetty 0:05 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 0:06 It's such an important part of who we are.

Speaker 0:09 This is Kelly Wearstler. She's the famed interior designer of private residences and boutique hotels.

Kelly Wearstler 0:15 We were doing three hotels at one time, and I was burning the midnight oil, and then you lose a team because they're burnt out. Saying no is just as important to saying yes.

Jay Shetty 0:27 I think that's great life advice and design advice.

Kelly Wearstler 0:29 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 0:29 Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

Speaker 0:51 The bestselling author and host.

Jay Shetty 0:53 The number one health and wellness podcast. [laughs] On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Kelly, I'm really happy to be with you because I've had so many special offline interactions with you, and I've always loved them because you always have this really bright, really light energy about you.

Kelly Wearstler 1:10 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10 And, you know, we'll bump into each other in one of the beautiful hotel projects you've worked on, or we've bumped into each other at, uh, mutual friends' homes, or you've been here too, and I've just always appreciated just how thoughtful that you are, how reflective you are, and I've been really looking forward to this, so thank you so much for doing it, honestly.

Kelly Wearstler 1:30 Oh, thank you, Jay. Well, I'm so honored to be here and be one of your guests and sitting here with you. Super excited.

Jay Shetty 1:37 Okay. Well, let's dive in. The question I want to start with you is can design make you happy?

Kelly Wearstler 1:43 Yes, absolutely. And, you know, one of the most beautiful parts of my jobs is making people happy, which is like ... I mean, you can't ... I can't believe I get paid for what I do- [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:54 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 1:54 ... because it's making people happy and inspiring people. And, uh, you know, there's nothing better than designing a hotel and going in time and time again and seeing people laughing and having fun and listening to music and seeing them time and time again, you know, whether they're there as a leisure traveler or a business traveler. And knowing that's their place that's a local venue for them just makes me feel so good.

Jay Shetty 2:21 Yeah. I've been to two of your projects, the one in Austin, uh, the proper hotel there, and the one downtown in LA, and they are just spectacular. And you're so right. Like, I remember when I walked in last year, we were going to watch F1-

Kelly Wearstler 2:34 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:34 ... and so I'd come into the Austin, and I bumped into you. And you were listening to the podcast. You showed it to me-

Kelly Wearstler 2:38 Yes, I was [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:39 ... which is, which is amazing. I loved it. And then I just looked at this one place behind the steps, and you have all these most beautiful collected, like, pots and vases, and, like, they're just ... They're so simply and beautifully kept on this, like, this kind of step. I'm, I'm ... I have no idea-

Kelly Wearstler 2:53 Wow, you have such a good memory. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:55 Yeah, I lo-

Kelly Wearstler 2:55 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:56 I have a picture of on my phone. Like, I'm like, it's, it's stunning. And it's so interesting to me because I think I underestimate growing up just how much spaces and aesthetics affect our mind, and today, as someone who wants to live an intentional, mindful life, I find that design and interiors and aesthetics play such a big part in the mood we experience and how we feel throughout the day. What do you think it is about design that does make people happy or sad or drain energy or bring energy? Or like you just said, you walk into a space and people are connecting versus isolated. Like, what, what is it about design that's doing ... What have you learned about design?

Kelly Wearstler 3:37 People want to see and experience something they haven't seen before, and that's what-

Jay Shetty 3:43 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 3:43 ... you know, I love doing at, for example, a hotel project. And they also want to feel, uh, a location. And, you know, when you travel to, say, Austin, Texas, and you remember those beautiful, uh, the pottery on the stabs, I mean, all those were designed by local artisans. So really bringing, like, this local experience and this authentic experience to, you know, wherever we design. And, and, you know, all of our projects are, you know, very site-specific and, uh, you know, getting very close to our, our client and really understanding and listening to, uh, to what the client, you know, intentions are. There are gonna be no surprises, and they're gonna love to be in their environment, and it's gonna in turn make them happy and, uh, and inspire them. And we all want to live a better life, and we all want to look better in our clothing, and it's the same thing at home. You know, we want to surround ourself with things that are familiar and make us happy.

Jay Shetty 4:39 Yeah. I've got a

Jay Shetty 4:40 lot of friends in my life right now who are trying to redecorate or redesign their homes, which can be such a challenging thing to do. You obviously worked on some private homes, obviously you work on hotels, and so many other spaces. But if someone's listening right now and they're thinking, "Kelly," like, you know, "the book looks stunning," like, they've seen your pictures on Instagram. They're like, "Wow, that living room looks spectacular," but they're thinking, "You know what? Maybe I don't have access to a designer. Maybe I, I don't have access to you, Kelly," like, "but I do now through the podcast. How do I find my creative spirit? Like, how do I find that spark to start that process in my own home?"

Kelly Wearstler 5:16 Well, you know, there's something that everyone gravitates towards, and I really encourage everyone to, to go out to museums and go to a flea market and go to vintage stores. And, and I always say vintage stores because I think it's important for people to see history and see things that are soulful and that have had, like, this life, you know? There's like ... You know, I love like, you know, how I design is, like, there's always an old soul and a new spirit. You know, I love emerging artist, and I love contemporary artist, and, and that is, you know, apparent in everything I do. I dress that way as well. So really looking at- You know, is, what is something you like to collect? Are you, you know, interested in art? And, and maybe starting there. You know, do you like color? Maybe you, you want to have color in your home. And, and, uh, you know, maybe that's a good place to start. And, and, and baby steps. And pace is so important because when somebody gets their apartment, and I've been there, it's like I'm so excited. I want to get in there and make it amazing and, and enjoy it right away. Um, but you really should take your time.

Jay Shetty 6:25 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 6:25 Like, it's really important because you're gonna really value all the pieces, and they'll spark a memory. You know, so maybe you went to a flea market with a friend, and you're gonna remember that day, or you traveled, uh, with your boyfriend or husband, and you found this really cool chair together, uh, or went to a gallery. So baby stepping and, um, and being very thoughtful about, about what you start to curate.

Jay Shetty 6:52 I really love what you said about history and vintage, and I think it's so true. I- I'll give an example of something that happened to me recently. So I remember a quote from Robin Sharma, which I read when I was very young. He wrote a book called The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.

Kelly Wearstler 7:08 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 7:08 The quote, the quote read ... So it was a fiction story, and it's really funny. I read it so young. But, "Ordinary people have big TVs. Extraordinary people have big libraries." And that always inspired me, and today I'm fortunate enough to have a beautiful bookshelf in, in our main living room, which is like, you know, there's a lot of books that can fill in that shelf. And so what I've been doing is traveling and curating books for that from my- by myself because I really enjoy reading, but I also enjoy design. I can't wait for this to-

Kelly Wearstler 7:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 7:36 ... be right there. While I was doing that, I was inside a store. We have a local Buck Mason store here in LA, and I was inside there. They do a great curation, and their curator always finds books from all over. And so I was in there checking out their books, and they said, "Jay, you know what? If you really want books, you should go to this random vintage store down the road." And I'd never seen this store. So I start walking around. I walk past this store, and it looks closed, and it looks really small, and it looks really old. And I don't see anyone in there, but I start knocking and just to make sure. This lady comes out, and she opens the door. And I say, "Hey, I heard you have vintage books here. I'd love to see them." And she goes, "Oh, yeah." W- she binds books. You could see all these, like, old binding materials for, like, these, you know, massive book covers and all of the old machinery and tools and processes you would need. And she said, "Well, I don't really sell books, but we have all these books here." And she said, "I'll tell you ..." You know, she told me a story. She was like, "When I got divorced from my husband, who used to own loads of bookstores, I got half the books." So she goes, "I just have thousands and thousands of books. Some of them are here. Most of them are at home." I said, "Well, I'd love to look through them." So I started looking through these books, and I was discovering, like, early editions of really special books. And I was, you know, starting to make a list, and I got a whole pile out. And she, she was really, like, she didn't care. She was like, "You can take them for free." And I was like, "No, no, no. I'd love to pay for them. Like, you know, this is such a gift." And so I, so I paid them whatever she asked me to pay for them. And then there was one book, and she said, "I've been looking for this book for years." And she goes, "I couldn't find it 'cause it was, like, all these creased pages and hidden away." And she said, "Do you mind if I don't sell this to you? Can I keep it?"

Kelly Wearstler 9:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:15 And I said, "Of course." I was like, "It's your book. If you can keep ..." It was b- I really wanted it. It was called ... I'd never read it, but it was a little book that was called, like, The Hidden Temple. And I was like, "Oh, that sounds so cool, like, especially with my background." But anyway, she kept that one and then-

Kelly Wearstler 9:28 I know, I know that-

Jay Shetty 9:29 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 9:30 ... um, that shop.

Jay Shetty 9:31 Do you know which shop I'm talking about?

Kelly Wearstler 9:31 Yeah, because she, yeah, because she does book binding.

Jay Shetty 9:33 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 9:33 And there's very few companies that do that still. And, you know, the ... Like, I love going to a bookstore and just getting lost in the aisles and just randomly just pulling books out of something that I know nothing about. And there was, uh, The Strand bookstore in New York.

Jay Shetty 9:50 Love that bookstore.

Kelly Wearstler 9:51 And it's amazing bookstore, and there's so few now. There's a few downtown that are so good, but I agree, like, going and, and just digging around and exploring and discovery. And, and really it's all about having an open heart-

Jay Shetty 10:04 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 10:05 ... and being open to all the possibilities and, you know, enlightening yourself.

Jay Shetty 10:11 I think one of the challenges that makes it hard to do what we're both agreeing on is that we're so used to now seeing the same thing. Like, if you're on Instagram and you're following these channels, everyone's posting the same kind-

Kelly Wearstler 10:22 Same thing, yeah

Jay Shetty 10:23 ... of interiors, the same kind of rug with the same kind of table, which there's nothing wrong with that. That's how things get mainstream and, and bigger and scaled. How do you challenge yourself to stay curious and try and discover new things? Like, how, what do you do? What are the practical steps that you take to be open-minded, I guess?

Kelly Wearstler 10:41 I'm constantly, you know, in search of something new that I'm fall- gonna fall in love with. And I know if I go, uh, to a gallery, and I'm so moved, and I might see three new materials come together in this unbelievable creation and something I've never seen before, and l- my heart stops.

Jay Shetty 11:03 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 11:04 It's like seeing, you know, that cute guy, and you're just like, "Oh, my God."

Jay Shetty 11:08 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 11:08 Like, like, you're just so moved, and it's so inspirational to me, and it's that feeling of falling in love.

Jay Shetty 11:15 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 11:16 And you want to keep falling in love and continue to discover. And there, you know, there's so many new technologies and, you know, I'm inspired by pop culture and, uh, AI, which is, like, such a huge disruptor in, in the, you know, world of ... due to everything. It's, like, a major earthquake happening right now. Also, all of our clients are all so different, and they come ... You know, they're from all over the world, and all the architecture's different. And the landscape, the view from the window is different. So everything truly is one of a kind. So I'm just always searching. Like, you know, I have my bar is, like, super high, and I just want to keep doing better and striving, you know, to be a better designer. And I kind of live that way. I want to, you know, be, uh, you know, the best mom I can be, the best, you know, wife I can be and, and, and, you know, leader at my studio for my team. You know, just being inspired and sharing, you know, my love. And, uh, you know, continuing to make people happy

Jay Shetty 12:20 If there's

Jay Shetty 12:21 people watching and listening right now, and they're like, "Kelly, I just have bad taste." Like, they're like-

Kelly Wearstler 12:24 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 12:24 ... you know, I just, I just don't, you know, I can't, I don't know what matches. Like, I try, but it doesn't look right. Like, if, if the people feel like that, like, have you... I'm sure you've worked with places, people, homes, hotels where you kind of see that creative slump. What is it that you say to someone who's struggling, goes, "I just have bad taste. I can't think about this"? Like, how would you encourage them to think about that?

Kelly Wearstler 12:49 Well, nobody should ba- With all of the visuals in our world, with magazines and social media and everything, like, there's so much inspiration out there. So it's really just having an open heart and, and being aware and, and finding your passion and what you love and what moves you. Like, what excites me is seeing something that I haven't seen before, and you can't find that unless you go out and seek it out. Like, even you might find somebody who's like, oh my God, I love the way they dress, or I went to this home and it was so incredible and inspirational, and it happens to me all the time. I'll go to, to, um, to a party, and it's like how they set the bar, and it's like, wow, like, I haven't seen that, and that's really cool. And I'm gonna put it in my bag of tricks for the next time I have... You know, and I'm inspired, and I love it. I take photos of everything.

Jay Shetty 13:42 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 13:42 That's like my journal. Like, I take photos of everything, and every month I always go back and, and look at, you know, what has inspired me and, um, you know, I, I share it. I like to share it with, you know, my team and, um, and social media and just see, you know, how my eye wanders and, and what excites me.

Jay Shetty 14:00 Yeah. I think you're spot on. When I was on my tour this year, I took so many pictures around the world of stores, arts, fabrics, textures, details. Like, there were so many things that I was like, wow, I would never have thought about that together, or-

Kelly Wearstler 14:14 And there's a pattern.

Jay Shetty 14:15 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 14:15 Like, that's where you'll discover, like, your style.

Jay Shetty 14:19 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 14:19 Like, would you ... Jay, if I said, "What is your style?"

Jay Shetty 14:21 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 14:22 What, what would you say?

Jay Shetty 14:23 Oh, my, the way I dress or the way I, uh, desi- like, my home?

Kelly Wearstler 14:27 Just inherently because they go, like, how somebody dresses-

Jay Shetty 14:31 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 14:31 ... and before you answer that question-

Jay Shetty 14:33 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 14:34 ... like I always, I have clients who'll say, "You know what? Like, I really, I'm not sure exactly what I like."

Jay Shetty 14:39 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 14:39 And I'm like, "Listen, we're gonna go in your closet, and we're gonna see, like, what you gravitate towards. Is it all neutral?"

Jay Shetty 14:45 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 14:45 Like, do you like pattern? Do you like little bits of color? Is it modern? Is it more minimalist?

Jay Shetty 14:51 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 14:51 And, like, the answer is there.

Jay Shetty 14:53 Yeah, absolutely. I'd, I'd say that my overall style is I try and wear something that's a more... or not wear. I try everything to have more of a untraditional silhouette or something that's hopefully a bit thoughtful. I like my spaces to be very calm and very approachable, and I think about everything like a sanctuary. So I think about the energy that it has even more than the item, and I think when I'm especially putting my spaces together, I'm like, "Okay, well, what, how do I wanna feel when I walk into this room?" And, you know, even when we had a tiny apartment back in New York, which we lived in, like, this 600-square-foot apartment, every corner of our apartment was thought about in that way. Like, what can we put in this corner to make it feel special, or, like, how do we differentiate between the bedroom and the bathroom when it's, like, r- in the same space, right? Like, what do you do, whether it's a scent, whether it's something you see? I even think about, like, what's the first thing I see in the morning and what's the last thing I see at night? All of these kind of things to me are really important, and like you said, it could be an art piece. It could be pottery. It could be a picture of your family. Like, I think it can be anything and everything, but I think we don't often use visual cues and aesthetics. We think of it so aesthetically that we forget how emotional it is, if that makes sense. We think of it as like, oh, that's just about looking cool and being cool. It's not about feeling a certain way. But to me, like, even when I walked in today and I saw the cover of your book, and I was like, oh, wow, that looks beautiful. Like, I wanted to feel it, and I wanted to... I was drawn towards it. I was like, wait a minute. What, what's the texture like? And I think when we were kids, that's how we approached things. When you're a kid, you see something cool, and you wanna touch it. You wanna press the button. You wanna ... And I think as adults, I think we sometimes lose that. Do you ever... How, how do you feel

Jay Shetty 16:45 about... Do you think that as children we are naturally that way, and that you are connected to your childlike feeling, or is that, is that something else?

Kelly Wearstler 16:53 Well, I'm, like, the most curious person, and, uh, and that drives my passion, and, you know, I'm just, I wanna know how something's made. I wanna know... You know, and I love going to artists' studios and seeing how, how they operate. I love going into a creative's home and just see how, how they organize. Curiosity is such a big driver, and I just love the imagination. You know, and it started when I was, like, really little. I had, um... When I was about seven years old, we would go visit my grandparents and our, you know, cousins and everyone, and I would make these little, uh, designs. Like, I would take, like, an, an egg carton and do something interesting, you know, with it. And I would make little cards for the family to buy and, you know, blank cards with a drawing on it. And then, uh, I would pack everything up, and I would take it and put it on my grandparents' table and put little price tags.

Jay Shetty 17:49 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 17:49 I was in business. I wanted to make money because my mom was always taking my sister and I to the flea market, and that's where I really started educating my eye. Going to the flea market and not having any money is not fun.

Jay Shetty 18:02 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 18:02 So I'm like, I'm just gonna, like, start making money myself. And, you know, and it was a great, um, fun thing to go, and now I can go to, you know, these vintage stores and flea markets that my mom would go to all the time and, uh, and be able to, uh, to shop. So just al- and going to these and being very curious and just seeing, and, and also I was educating my eye from, you know, a young age.

Jay Shetty 18:25 Yeah. No, and I think that that's- It's fascinating how much you pick up from, from those moments and those times about what you gravitate towards, and I, I always wonder whether we've, yeah, whether we block that as we get older and we start to follow a more status quo or start to follow a more rhythmic routine-like approach to our spaces as opposed to, like, that childlike, as you said, curiosity, but also that, I don't know, that kind of contagious feeling you get. I, I guess how do you know

Jay Shetty 18:58 when, how do you know, as Kelly, when you're saying, "Okay, I need to be patient"? You were just saying that when someone moves to an apartment or to a home, they should take their time. How do you know when you should take your patience with an item or when you're like, "No, I need to buy it now"? And it's almost like taking your example of the cute guy, how do you know when this is the one to be with or whether you feel like you're settling?

Kelly Wearstler 19:22 Like, that's such a good question.

Jay Shetty 19:23 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 19:23 Like, it's intuitive.

Jay Shetty 19:24 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 19:24 I think you know, and the more that you see and the more that you know what's out there, like, you're, uh, you're, you know what the anomalies are and what r- what's really special. But it is, it's an intuitive feeling, and working with, with clients and, you know, these projects that we work on can take two years, you know, five years. And so really taking our time to find things that are meaningful and that the clients truly are, are gonna, you know, they're gonna live with these pieces and, and it, it makes them feel good. Also, when you, when you're working and, and buying things for your house, you should have, like, a hierarchy. Everything can't be super expensive, so that's where if you wanna buy something new and you wanna, you know, have a really amazing comfortable sofa versus, you know, a piece of art, is knowing whe- where to sp- to spend the money. Like, a sofa you're gonna have, you know, probably for a shorter time, where you'll have a piece of art and you invest in it, it brings a, a memory and it's so personal that you can take it with you in your next, uh, your next home.

Jay Shetty 20:26 So you just encourage everyone to spend more money on the art than the sofa-

Kelly Wearstler 20:29 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 20:29 [laughs] ... than the comfy sofa that you sit on every day.

Kelly Wearstler 20:32 Yeah, you can know, because it's just, it's like f- you know, it's furniture, and it's so, it's so true what you said about how just with social media and everything is there's so much sameness out there. And so you, you know, your, your home reflects, you know, h- who you are. Your home, you know, reflects who you are, you know, what, what are you collecting and, and, you know, it's just like how you dress.

Jay Shetty 20:55 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 20:55 And it's such an important part of, of who we are.

Jay Shetty 21:00 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 21:01 And don't you look, like, when you do Zoom meetings, are you checking out what's behind them?

Jay Shetty 21:05 Always. Always, yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 21:06 I know, and it says a lot about-

Jay Shetty 21:08 Yes, it does

Kelly Wearstler 21:08 ... about the person.

Jay Shetty 21:09 Yes, absolutely.

Kelly Wearstler 21:09 And I'm looking at all of these amazing things behind you.

Jay Shetty 21:12 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 21:12 And, like, is all of this, are these all personal-

Jay Shetty 21:15 Choices, yeah. So we, what we tried to do, so my biggest goal for this space, obviously this space is just so everyone, everyone who, who's listening and watching, you know that we're in my podcast studio, and this room is only used to record the podcast. And so our goal was I wanted it to feel intimate, because a lot of production sets have, like, 30 people on them, and I find conversations like this to be much more intimate and close and, like, this is how I would sit with a friend, so that was a key-

Kelly Wearstler 21:44 Yeah

Jay Shetty 21:44 ... need. The second thing was I didn't want it to be packed with too many other people, because I think that removes the intimacy. The choice of art was all to evoke emotion, so I chose that piece there with the heart, because to me I wanna only have heart-based conversations here. That's, that's what On Purpose is all about, where we reveal our hearts to each other, me included, and even our audience and community is opening up their hearts to the-

Kelly Wearstler 22:09 Yeah

Jay Shetty 22:10 ... ideas and topics. I l- genuinely put eyes there through that art to wr- because I think eye contact is such a beautiful way of being present and being still and being focused with someone. And again, these are, I'm giving these subliminal, not messaging, but the deeper meaning behind why these things there. This is an African shield, and we had that there because I wanted people to remind them to put their guard down. It's almost like hanging, hanging your shield up, the, the thing that blocks you. And then there were, and they're all pieces by, uh, people of color. So all the art in here were by people of color, and this was to remind of the highest good, which is of serving and offering and, uh, which is such a big part of the philosophy that I followed and studied and-

Kelly Wearstler 22:50 You know,

Kelly Wearstler 22:51 one question-

Jay Shetty 22:51 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 22:51 ... that I had is because you obviously were working in finance and in London and you, uh, went, you became a monk. How has, like, material things and design and, and fashion, you look amazing-

Jay Shetty 23:08 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 23:09 Uh-

Jay Shetty 23:09 Thank you

Kelly Wearstler 23:09 ... and super stylish, and, like, how has that changed for you?

Jay Shetty 23:14 It's so, it's such a good question. I'm so glad you asked me that, honestly, because I think that I was always interested in fashion and design before I became a monk. So I was always intrigued by graphic design. I loved collage. Art and design was one of my favorite subjects at school, and I did really well at it, and I've talked about my art teacher often, who I credit so much with my intentional thinking. So let's say we're doing a collage and we're doing mixed design. I would put something together and I'd think it would look amazing and, and my friends would think it would look great. And my teacher would look at it and say, "Why did you do that?" And if I didn't have a good enough answer, I didn't get a good grade. And so he was training me to always ask why. He was like, "Why would you put those two things together? What's your reason?" And I started to realize that the intention was so important, the intuitive design of putting things together. It wasn't just about the form, it was about the substance. And so I would, I loved that from before I became a monk. I even wanted to d- I had the dream of becoming a graphic designer or art director when I grew up and put magazines together. That was always kind of what I enjoyed. And obviously I left that all when I became a monk and, and moved away from it. And the monastery was always very minimalist, right? There was no... It's not that there was no design, and I think that's always important to remember. Like, if you've ever seen an altar- An altar is highly designed, whether it's deities of God, whether it's, uh, forms of sages or gurus. If you ever walk into a temple atmosphere, it's-

Kelly Wearstler 24:43 It's very decorative, yeah

Jay Shetty 24:44 ... very decorative. And some of the temples that I visited in India had, like, the most ornate carvings around them, telling stories and histories and pastimes of incredible epics. And you'd see a, you'd see that the design that was above the place where you stand when you're in front of the altar had specific markings on the ceiling. Like, there's so much intentionality even about a temple and how they were designed, and so I think I appreciated all those things. Although, in the temple it was very minimalist. It wasn't, you know, it was, it was- it wasn't, I guess, material in that sense. But I think for me now, I've just allowed all my passions to infuse, and I really do believe that designing your home, designing what you wear, or choosing and selecting it carefully allows you to feel different. And so to me, design and mindfulness, or fashion and mindfulness, or how you dress is probably a better word than even fashion, but how you dress and mindfulness, and how you design your home and mindfulness are completely synchronized-

Kelly Wearstler 25:47 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:48 ... uh, and they can't be separated because I feel different when I wear something different. I can express myself differently when I dress differently. I can sit with you and we can create an atmosphere, hopefully, in this room for you and our guests that allows you to be comfortable and open, and that allows you to feel safe. And so hopefully that answers your question. I don't know if it does, but I feel like-

Kelly Wearstler 26:11 No, it does

Jay Shetty 26:11 ... yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 26:11 It's great. And it i- it's a lifestyle. It's like how you dress and how you, uh, how you design your home, and, and two, how you operate.

Jay Shetty 26:23 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 26:23 Your, your lifestyle, whether it's wellness to what you eat, you know, the whole thing goes hand-in-hand.

Jay Shetty 26:31 I think one

Jay Shetty 26:32 thing about your work though, Kelly, that I like, and it kind of reflects on the question you asked me, is, you know, one of the things I often struggle with is because I lived as a monk and now don't at all, and I'm married, of course, and we have businesses and companies and everything else, I've given myself permission to be all of the complexities of who I am. And I love meditating, but I also love media. I also love sharing messages. I also love management and strategy, and I've just allowed all of myself to coexist, and I feel that allowing myself to do that has allowed me to be happier with who I am. And when I look at your work, and I'd, I'll let you comment on that in a second on me, but when I look at your work, I see that same juxtaposition of things that people would often say, "Well, that doesn't work," or, "That wouldn't make sense." And if you walked it through theoretically, most people would argue, I think, with your designs that they wouldn't make sense because I think you put things together that seem so alien and challenging and random-

Kelly Wearstler 27:30 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 27:30 ... that people would say, "Yeah, that doesn't make any sense." Now, you've found a way to make it cohesive and make it work. I wonder, are you trying to... Do, do you agree with that, first of all? And, and how have you allowed yourself the permission to put things together that people would find unexpected?

Kelly Wearstler 27:48 You know, that, that's such a good question, and when I was starting out, um, there was a very specific style. It was like the slip-covered furniture, and everything was neutral. And I came to Los Angeles and I, you know, was so grateful for this first job that I got for a couple that lived in Venice Beach, and they needed help with, like, one dining room. And I was gonna actually work with a design studio, and this job just fell into my lap. And so, uh, it was on the canals in Venice, this really cool bungalow, and design. They were like, "Listen, all we do, we only have money for one room, so let's do this." I did it, and there was color, and there was, like, vintage things, and there was some contemporary artist pieces. And the room, like, looked, you know, incredible. They didn't quite understand it.

Jay Shetty 28:39 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 28:40 And they were like, "Well, it doesn't feel like maybe what I'm seeing." And so, you know, I had to really, like, talk them through it. And this is, you know, before, you know, now you're doing, like, renderings for, you know, your clients to really understand. You know, h- there was a lot of communication. You know, I took them to the flea market with me, you know, and we really made these decisions together. They were a little apprehensive, but it turned out great. I ended up doing the whole entire house, and then somebody saw that and... So yeah, it was a, it was a little scary. And, and still now there are clients that are, maybe we'll do a presentation. They'll say, "You know, I like part of it, but maybe this part I don't like." And if I truly believe, I'll take the time and, and kind of show them the way and my thought process and, uh, maybe give them, you know, a few more visuals. So the team and I will work on that. You know, but if it doesn't, if they're not 100% dialed in and excited, then we'll come up with another option. And, you know, we're all about, you know, making, you know, our projects, you know, amazing and unique, but we also, you know, want to make sure our clients are, like, so happy and, and love the space. So it can be challenging, for sure.

Jay Shetty 29:50 How did you get that confidence, especially early on, right? So you're asked to do a dining room. I can't believe that you s- you know. Like, it's beautiful to hear that, that today when you're designing multiple hotels and, that it started with just designing a dining room, and I think that's so inspiring for so many people listening and watching who either want to follow in your career path or do something creative that they can think, "Wow, that, that's where it can start." How did you have the confidence at that point to walk them through it and say, "Hey, even if you don't get it, this makes sense"? What gave it to you at that point, or did you feel at that point, did you feel a bit nervous when they said- "Hey, we're not ... You know, we don't get it," or, or did you always have that confidence about your work?

Kelly Wearstler 30:29 No, I was nervous.

Jay Shetty 30:30 Okay. Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 30:30 Oh, 100%. Like, I was like, "Oh, my God. Am I making the right decision?" Like, I felt like in my heart it was the right decision, so I really wanted to not convince them, but have them, like, understand, like, where I was coming from. And, and they, they, uh, had faith in me, and we went for it, and it looked amazing. And, you know, you s- we still have tho- those clients. But yeah, it was a nervous, uh, nerve-wracking, um, experience. And we still now will do a presentation, like the team and I will work on something for weeks, and it's like a really big concept presentation, and there will still sometimes be like, this just doesn't feel right because our audience may be, whether it's for a hotel and it's a group of people, they might not, they might not have seen it before.

Jay Shetty 31:20 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 31:20 And, and I strive for that. I want to do something that is unique and site-specific, and, and so they might not see it before, so they get a little, a little timid.

Jay Shetty 31:29 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 31:30 So again, it's being, um, you know, really communicating and letting the client know what, what, uh, you know, is in our mind's eye.

Jay Shetty 31:39 Tell us about some of the communication skills that takes because I think when people think of creative careers, we think of them as purely artistic. But actually, you're dealing with someone's intimate homes or a hotel space, which again, is people are coming there to rest or relax or connect or take a break. So they're very important spaces for us, and therefore, people are quite opinionated about them. How, what have you learned about communicating more effectively with people, especially when things are so personal? Because I think that's a unique skill set that people wouldn't understand that you've had, you'd have to have. But you, you obviously have to because you're talking to people about things that they have very clear thoughts about and specific choices for.

Kelly Wearstler 32:23 Dealing with confidence. Like, presenting it, like, you have to believe it, and having confidence is everything. The visuals are so important, and so I like to communicate with the visuals because I can talk for an hour-

Jay Shetty 32:40 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 32:41 ... and, and the client might still not understand, like, the direction. So having the visuals is everything.

Jay Shetty 32:47 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 32:48 And the confidence. Confidence is so, is everything.

Jay Shetty 32:51 For

Jay Shetty 32:52 you, you know, like we just talked about, your career started from like humble beginnings, and I wonder what is, what was the hardest thing about getting started? What was the most difficult thing on this journey to get to where you are today? What was the thing that scared you the most, the thing that you struggled with the most?

Kelly Wearstler 33:13 Like, I'm, I'm a really hard worker, and I, I know what I like. Probably going into it, like, by myself. Like, I did the job starting out for three years by myself. I was the, the, the business person, the creative person. I was loading my car up at the flea market with a huge chair and putting it in myself and doing everything. And so doing that by myself, and I didn't work in a design studio, so I didn't have that visibility to how a design studio truly operates. So really figuring out the contracts, the budgets, and how to present that, I did it, you know, on my own, and I asked a lot of questions. And there were some great contractors and people that I was working with and collaborating with on these projects, and I just asked, you know, a million questions. But I would say that doing that alone, and now when I go to a big meeting, and I get nervous-

Jay Shetty 34:12 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 34:13 ... doing a big presentation, and I have my team and my support team, my family, um, my, my husband, who's, like, my biggest cheerleader, [laughs] and, uh, and, and we do it as a team. And that was probably, like, the, the most, uh, kind of frightening part of starting.

Jay Shetty 34:31 Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I, I'm hoping that ... The reason I ask that is I think there are so many people right now who are listening, have a passion, have a creative project that they want to work on, and it can feel daunting when you say, "Oh, I don't know accounts. I don't know how to do my taxes. I don't know how to put a presentation together. I don't know how to pitch that." But you're saying asking questions and just doing it, I guess. I'm guessing there were lots of mis-

Kelly Wearstler 34:53 Yeah, you just have to do it.

Jay Shetty 34:55 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 34:55 I mean, honestly, you just have to do it, and really, you know, just having the passion and really, you know, the, the drive to, to wanting it and educating yourself along the way, and I'm continuing to educate myself along the way. And every project we have, there's a new group of creatives, whether it's a landscape or architect, lighting designer, that we all learn from one another. And, and that just makes me and, and my team a better designer, and, uh, and we pass it along to all of our next projects and clients.

Jay Shetty 35:29 Mm. What do you think was your biggest mistake that you made on that part of the journey? Like, something that now you look back and you're like, "Oh, that's ridiculous. I can't believe that was a mistake," that it doesn't feel that big, but at that time you were like, "Oh, no, I don't know how to do this," or, you know, this fell through or-

Kelly Wearstler 35:42 Oh, my God. So I worked, I worked on a project, um, and I had one assistant. We were working on this project for this, um, [lips smack] a music executive, and she loved color. And so she was traveling, and, um, and this was actually starting out. She had a really low budget. And so we were like, "Listen, we're gonna have this painted. We're gonna do something unbelievable." And it, it looked awful. It was like-

Jay Shetty 36:09 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 36:09 So it was a wreck. And it was just too many colors, just went overboard, which you can do, which is great, you, you, to make mistakes.

Jay Shetty 36:16 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 36:16 It's so important in the creative process to make mistakes. And, um, so she was gonna be back in a week, and my assistant ... And, like, we'd spent the money on the painter, so we, so I painted myself with, with my assistant-

Jay Shetty 36:30 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 36:30 ... the entire house ourselves. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:32 Wow. Wow.

Kelly Wearstler 36:35 You know, we wanted to make it great. And that's not the first time I've done that. We worked on projects that there was, like, a little budget, and I wanted the project so badly to be amazing, and I wanted to make the client happy, and they're just... And so I just, like, painted it myself.

Jay Shetty 36:49 That's amazing. That's incredible. Does that per-

Kelly Wearstler 36:51 Yeah, you just sometimes you just have to do it

Jay Shetty 36:52 ... Does that, can that person now claim that Kelly painted my house?

Kelly Wearstler 36:55 I, I think they moved-

Jay Shetty 36:56 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 36:56 ... since then. Uh, but, you know, I just did it myself.

Jay Shetty 37:00 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 37:00 And sometimes you just, you know, you have to do it. You have to just put in the extra work and, and make it happen.

Jay Shetty 37:06 Hm. What do

Jay Shetty 37:07 you think was the biggest risk you took on this journey where you felt like you were kind of leveling up? I feel everyone goes through this phase of they're doing the work, they're growing, they're building. You went from doing the dining room to the whole home. What was a big risk that you thought or a leap you had to take which kind of shifted your career?

Kelly Wearstler 37:24 I would say, you know, when I was, um, doing interiors and, um, and this is, like, what's so great about, you know, my job is, like, anyone can call at any moment. I got a call from Bergdorf Goodman, you know, this incredible store in New York, and they were looking for a designer to do the, like, iconic restaurant on the top floor. And so they're like, "We'd like you to come out and meet with us," and we did, like, a presentation. And I was like... They were like, "Well, listen, we're speaking to a few other people." And I thought for sure it was gonna be a New York designer. Like, I was the only one on the West Coast they were speaking with. And we ended up getting the, the commission, which was, like, unbelievable.

Jay Shetty 37:59 Wow.

Kelly Wearstler 37:59 And this is, like, a store that, you know, you just, it, you just dream about 'cause it's, you know, so, you know, iconic. So doing that project, and it was, like, a really, you know, big success. It looks the same way. I think it's been, like, 12 years since that project was, was completed. So after the project, the president, uh, of the company said, "Hey, listen, you know, we would love for you to have, uh, a shop." And I was thinking, but I don't sell anything. Like, I'm a designer, and I don't have product. So I said, "Well, let me think about it," 'cause that was, like, a dream. Now I'm gonna have, like, a shop within Bergdorf Goodman. And, um, so I, uh, went back, and I was like, you know what? I have designed a lot of things, like, a lot of, uh, commissions for some of our projects, and we've done a lot of custom things that we couldn't find and we ended up designing. So within about, um, six months, we designed this incredible space. It was like a little jewel box. And, um, we were in business. And I had accessories, and it was there for 10 years. It did so well.

Jay Shetty 38:56 Wow.

Kelly Wearstler 38:56 And it was a really fun thing to do. And, you know, I, I took it as a challenge. Like, I want to do this. I was so excited, and I, you know, really educated myself on how to, you know, find, uh, you know, fabricators, you know, around the world. A lot of our things were made there in different places. So it was a, you know, really cool thing, and that got me into having, uh, uh, a store.

Jay Shetty 39:21 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 39:22 And-

Jay Shetty 39:22 It's completely different, something unexpected

Kelly Wearstler 39:23 ... completely different.

Jay Shetty 39:24 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 39:24 And I think that's having an open heart and just, like, riding the wave and being open to, like, any opportunity. And now we're, you know, designing product and, you know, hotels. I never thought in a million years I'd design a hotel. And, uh, you know, work, we're now working with a lot of brands doing really, like, unbelievable, cool things. Um, and, um, so it's, it's, like, really exciting.

Jay Shetty 39:49 Are there any particular cities in the world that you feel you just constantly gravitate towards, or have they changed over the years? And what would be some of your memories of going to any of your favorite cities or countries where you discovered something new or something fresh or even something that felt familiar?

Kelly Wearstler 40:07 I would say, uh, going to, uh, to Europe. Like, I love going. Like, the Paris flea market is, is, like, unbelievable.

Jay Shetty 40:16 Okay.

Kelly Wearstler 40:16 And just any of the European cities. Like, I was in Amsterdam this summer.

Jay Shetty 40:21 Oh, same.

Kelly Wearstler 40:21 And I was in... So great. And in Belgium.

Jay Shetty 40:24 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 40:24 And the, so many, uh, incredible artists, like these really great emerging artist. And when you travel, you just see, like, what's special. And, and I think it's so important to travel because if you... Our world is becoming so same.

Jay Shetty 40:40 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 40:40 It, there's not a lot of... You know, if you look on your Instagram and, uh, you know, in your technology, things are feeling the same. So it's so important to travel because you really see what are the special materials and the, the inherent designs and craftsmanship that many of these different countries have. So it's very important to get out and see things in person.

Jay Shetty 41:01 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 41:02 Kelly, I want to do something intuitive with you, seeing as we're both being intuitive. So I'm gonna look through your beautiful book, which I love to do in general anyway, and I'm gonna pick things that intuitively call out to me-

Kelly Wearstler 41:15 Okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 41:15 ... and then ask you the, ask you the story about them. How does that sound?

Kelly Wearstler 41:17 Okay. Amazing.

Jay Shetty 41:18 Does that sound okay?

Kelly Wearstler 41:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:19 Okay. There's so much stuff already. I saw this picture. I fell in love with this, actually. I was, like, addicted to this whole space for a second. Maybe I should ask you to walk me through this because I saw this on your Instagram too.

Kelly Wearstler 41:30 Oh, yeah. That's a project, uh, that's in, uh, California. We worked on it with, um, an architect, uh, Marwan Al-Sayed, and he did the Aman in, um, Aman Giri.

Jay Shetty 41:43 Right. Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 41:44 And he's just such a, a talent. And this is, um, an Anish Kapoor, uh, artwork, uh, a Jonas Bollan chair. That is from the '80s.

Jay Shetty 41:55 That chair was, is stunning. Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 41:56 The chair is like sculpture.

Jay Shetty 41:58 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 41:59 And that's why actually, Jay, like, one of the things is, you know, you think you've seen everything. And so for example, like a stiletto heel, you think you've seen every stiletto heel. And someone comes out with something that totally blows you away, and it's, like, a new thing that, that your heart stops. And it's the same thing with a chair and, and having, like, artists find their creative spirit. You know, that's a three-legged chair.

Jay Shetty 42:28 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 42:28 And just people continue to, to, uh, design and come up with things that you, you've seen, you've never seen before. And it's the same thing with music. Like, you think you've heard, like, every kind of rhythm or-

Jay Shetty 42:40 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 42:40 ... sample, and you just hear something new that just blows you away.

Jay Shetty 42:44 What about people who think they're like, "You know, Kelly, I don't have enough money to make a space look good"? Like, do you need to spend big in order to create a space that feels good to you?

Kelly Wearstler 42:56 No, 100%, because you can, just like I did, you can paint a wall, and it could be one wall, which is actually kind of cool. Every wall doesn't have to be the same color. It makes it more interesting. And just have one amazing chair that you love and one light. We need light. A light fixture and, and a table. And like, let it sit for a while.

Jay Shetty 43:19 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 43:20 And, and really just, um, that showcases your style. And it's nice to live in something a little more minimal for a while. Like, I used to live where I just had so many things that, you know, I found on my travels, and there would just be a lot of stuff. And I've kind of changed. I like things that are really, like, a little more minimal and important, and it lets the piece shine and have its own moment.

Jay Shetty 43:45 Yeah. I think minimalism's definitely where I feel like. I feel our home is quite minimalist. There's a lot of empty space. Everything's very low as well, which I really like.

Kelly Wearstler 43:55 I know. I love-

Jay Shetty 43:56 It feels like grounded. Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 43:56 ... like low. Like some of these, like, beds and furniture, I mean, you need like a stool to s- [laughs] to step on.

Jay Shetty 44:02 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 44:02 They're so-

Jay Shetty 44:03 Yeah, yeah

Kelly Wearstler 44:03 ... they're so tall.

Jay Shetty 44:04 Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 44:04 And it's, and it's the same. Everything's getting big.

Jay Shetty 44:07 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 44:07 Everything.

Jay Shetty 44:08 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 44:08 Like literally, I mean, we're design- designing tabletop and, you know, we ... Plates, like, you know, they're so much bigger now. It's like everything.

Jay Shetty 44:17 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 44:17 And so w- I love really low beds because I think you feel like really low to the ground, and it also makes a small bedroom, like, feel more expansive-

Jay Shetty 44:27 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 44:27 ... because it doesn't cut the room in half. So a bed-

Jay Shetty 44:31 That's a good, that's a good note

Kelly Wearstler 44:32 ... yeah, a bed that's like 12 inches in height, and it's so nice. I mean, it's very, you know, it's how ... Like, in Ja- in Japan, everything's like really low, and it doesn't get in the way of windows, and it makes your space feel so much more expansive.

Jay Shetty 44:45 These are very good practical tips. I think everyone, everyone's, everyone's gonna be getting low beds because of that.

Kelly Wearstler 44:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:50 This space is spectacular. I don't think I've seen this in real life actually with all the tiles and everything.

Kelly Wearstler 44:54 Oh, yeah. That is, uh, in Austin, where we met.

Jay Shetty 44:57 Oh, no. I didn't even go anywhere. I didn't-

Kelly Wearstler 44:57 We actually spoke over on, on the right side there. And that's-

Jay Shetty 45:01 Oh, hidden behind here. Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 45:02 ... yeah, so that is, um, a restaurant. And so all those tiles, I was in Portugal, and I stumbled upon this, uh, shop that had tiles, and it was like a 75-year-old family-owned tile company. And I went inside, and I was so moved. And this restaurant, the chef that we were designing this restaurant for, it's Mediterranean. And so, uh, the reason why it's very patchwork is because all of these tiles came from different, like, decades and periods.

Jay Shetty 45:30 Wow.

Kelly Wearstler 45:31 And so s- you know, many of it's like dead stock, and there was 7 left or maybe 20 left. And so really created this patchwork of all of this, you know, different color and pattern and, and reliefs, and it looks, you know, amazing.

Jay Shetty 45:45 Yeah. I love it. It's ... I, I didn't, I didn't see you that day. I think we were, what, hidden on the other s- oh, we were on the other side, right? Or through there. I'm trying to figure that out. Where were you?

Kelly Wearstler 45:53 Yeah, and it's also like making do with what you have or what you've seen. Like, I could easily gone in this tile store and seen one tile that I absolutely loved and like, "Okay, let's just do the entire wall in that."

Jay Shetty 46:05 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 46:06 But, you know, having something that, that, you know ... Okay, how can we make this work and make it really interesting? And, um, kind of just, you know, letting your creative juices flow.

Jay Shetty 46:18 I think that's what's so beautiful about it is that when we're present and when we're, when we observe, I find that, and I don't know how I started doing it with furniture and things like that, but I feel like when you re- I think it's just mindfulness training, but when you get really present with, like, looking at even the direction of, like, the grain lines, you know, on a piece of, uh, wood or whether it's looking at, like, how it's cut or connected or, you know. And I don't have any of the vocabulary of an interior designer at all or the language or have any skills in this space. I can appreciate something that, that looks beautiful. And so as I'm looking through this-

Kelly Wearstler 46:52 Yeah, and things that are also, like, imperfect, and if you, you know, were skinning-

Jay Shetty 46:58 Imperfect is the word

Kelly Wearstler 46:58 ... if we're skinning a wall in, in timber, and, you know, you want the hand of it to really, uh, show its, like, dimensionality and, and how things are, are assembled and put together, and, and it's all, you know, part of the storytelling.

Jay Shetty 47:14 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 47:14 And it does. Like, things that are imperfect are so beautiful.

Jay Shetty 47:17 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 47:18 Which is kind of crazy 'cause I'm a little bit of a perfectionist.

Jay Shetty 47:21 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 47:22 And, uh, I'm trying to like, you know, let things go a little more. Like somet- like I literally will go to, like, one of the hotels, and I get- will see the furniture that's out of place. And people are like, "Oh, God. There's Kelly."

Jay Shetty 47:34 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 47:34 Like, she's like moving, like, the furniture. I'll te- I can tell if things are, like, two inches off. I mean, I like to keep things, like, super tight.

Jay Shetty 47:41 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 47:41 But sometimes you just have to, like, let it go.

Jay Shetty 47:43 No, I'm with you. My, my wife and I get into this all the time.

Kelly Wearstler 47:46 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 47:46 I will rearrange our dining chairs around the table every night just because I like it to be exactly where-

Kelly Wearstler 47:51 Oh, my God. I, I totally am that person.

Jay Shetty 47:53 Yeah. I- my wife's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "No, these are just too close."

Kelly Wearstler 47:57 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 47:58 "And I can't appreciate this space because of this." I, I'm totally like that, so I get that.

Kelly Wearstler 48:03 And I told my boys, I'm like, "Listen, I see everything. Like, you'll never-

Jay Shetty 48:07 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 48:07 "... like, pull anything over on me." Yeah, I see everything.

Jay Shetty 48:11 I love it. This piece I saw, uh, I loved it from the moment I saw it. I mean, it looks spectacular. It's just-

Kelly Wearstler 48:17 Yeah, so this is, uh, in the hotel that's in downtown, and it's a pool suite because the, the building is a historic building, and, uh, it used to in one of its lives be a YMCA.

Jay Shetty 48:30 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 48:30 And so in order to get the historic tax credits, uh, you have to keep a lot of the programming there. So there was a pool, and it's quite, it's like a 30, 40-foot pool. And so it's a three-bedroom suite.

Jay Shetty 48:42 Oh.

Kelly Wearstler 48:42 And it has its own kitchen. So, you know, you can stay in this, you know, really incredible ... I mean, this is an experience that you'll really rarely get, and that's what we like to do is like- ... you know, give people an experience and something that they can take an incredible memory home with them.

Jay Shetty 48:58 Well, I mean, there's, I could stop at every page. I'm, I'm really trying to be intuitive as I said. What? This is so-

Kelly Wearstler 49:04 Yeah, and you have to go to the Santa Monica proper.

Jay Shetty 49:07 Yes. I've been there before.

Kelly Wearstler 49:08 Oh, you've been there.

Jay Shetty 49:08 No, I've been there.

Kelly Wearstler 49:09 Yeah, you've been there.

Jay Shetty 49:09 It's beautiful. No, I've been there. I've had, uh, I've been to, I've been there for birthdays and events and, yeah, that, that space is spectacular. Downstairs, upstairs. I've been on the rooftop as well. It's a, it's a really beautiful space. I love the use of, like, plants and nature. Like, to me, these kind of spaces, of course, these kind of spaces are really s- special with, like, this kind of composition, but that feels similar to the first one I showed you, I think. But when people are trying to do plants in their home, how, how should they think about it? Because I feel like that's something that people try hard and, and struggle with. Keeping them alive is one thing, but what about in terms of placement?

Kelly Wearstler 49:44 Well, you know, th- like, that is where-

Jay Shetty 49:46 Okay. Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 49:46 ... having something that if you have a really ama-

Jay Shetty 49:49 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 49:49 ... incredible ... Yeah, that's, that's so great.

Jay Shetty 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 49:52 Well, we are so fortunate to work with some amazing talents.

Jay Shetty 49:56 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 49:56 And but I actually love going to the nurseries and seeking out these-

Jay Shetty 50:00 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 50:00 ... unbelievable specimens that have, that are imperfect and that, uh, really transform your interior. And I think, too, like, less is more, although I do love, uh, you know, c- we're working on a project where there's a solarium and there's, there's so many, you know, incredible, you know, plants and, uh, and different, uh, colors of green in the pots. And it just tells, like, a really beautiful story. In that project, that is a artwork that's a vase. The chair, do you see?

Jay Shetty 50:31 This, yeah. This, this ho- this is probably one of my favorite rooms I've, you've ever done. Like, I love this room.

Kelly Wearstler 50:37 Yeah, so that's-

Jay Shetty 50:37 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 50:37 ... the grotto.

Jay Shetty 50:38 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 50:38 And, uh, the grotto actually, the inspiration, it's a library. When we were working on this hotel, I wanted an intimate space where people could go and have a meeting and hang out, and this is a hotel that's in Santa Monica. And so the, it's, like, maritime. I mean, that was the, the inspiration. And so I went to a friend's, um, parent's house, and they were an older couple, and they live in Malibu. And I remember walking in their home and being so inspired because they had this incredible artwork, and they had a library and all of these things that, you know, they're a well-traveled couple, that they've collected their whole life, and it just felt so real and represented them. And so this room, the grotto we called it, um, we brought in a lot of emerging artists from Los Angeles, and then we also found a lot of vintage pieces as well. And it's just a great place that you can have a meeting, and it's like being in a, in a grotto. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 51:33 Yeah. Little, little podcast studio right there.

Kelly Wearstler 51:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 51:35 No, I love it. No, it's beautiful. And like I said, I could go on and on. I'm glad we did that, though, because I love hearing you react and tell us the story behind incredible things and-

Kelly Wearstler 51:44 And I'm such a visual person.

Jay Shetty 51:46 Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 51:47 Like, it helps to, like, see-

Jay Shetty 51:48 Absolutely

Kelly Wearstler 51:49 ... to see things 'cause I am-

Jay Shetty 51:50 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 51:50 ... s- like, so visual, and it's such a, you know, a big part of, you know, my spirit and, and what I do. And that's like when I was doing the Masterclass.

Jay Shetty 51:59 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 51:59 They were like, "Listen, we want you to, you know, you're gonna be, you know, the teacher, and you're just gonna talk." And I was like, "But you guys, everything is, like, so visual and tactile, and there's, like, materiality and so much to the story." And so, um, we, uh, went outside the box and went on some, uh, site visits-

Jay Shetty 52:18 Yeah, absolutely

Kelly Wearstler 52:19 ... which was so fun.

Jay Shetty 52:19 Yeah, absolutely. Oh, oh, yeah. You actually went out with the course.

Kelly Wearstler 52:22 We went out, yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:23 Yeah. That's incredible.

Kelly Wearstler 52:24 Yeah, we went out to, um, and toured, and, and I think then people can apply. And I think if somebody is not, like, really skilled at design, like, they also need to see things as well.

Jay Shetty 52:35 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 52:35 So that helps them, you know, to apply it to, you know, what they're trying to do.

Jay Shetty 52:40 Absolutely, and people can actually learn from you directly from the Masterclass, so that's, that's a great way of giving people the tools. If you're inspired from today, then hopefully the Masterclass will help you piece together all these amazing lessons that Kelly's sharing. Kelly, you didn't,

Jay Shetty 52:53 you've said before, or I've learned before that you didn't always plan on being a mom, or, like, you didn't think about it as your natural course. But it's something that, of course, I've even met some of your children, I believe, as well, so yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 53:06 Yes, yes. Yeah, so my, like, growing up, you know, my, my mom worked. My grandmothers both worked. And so having, you know, the white picket fence was not, you know, in my, in my mind. I wanted to work, and I really loved design, you know, from when I was doing my bunny shop when I was seven years old, and really discovering my passion in high school. And just like you, I loved graphic design, and that's kind of where it all started from, is going to the flea markets with my mom and seeing all the magazines.

Jay Shetty 53:36 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 53:37 And so I really wanted to, to work and be, uh, you know, have a career. And then I met my incredible husband, Brad, and having a family was important to him. And I was like, "Okay, uh, I gotta think about it." You know, I, I have an open heart. Like, I'm in love with, you know, I'm in love with my husband, and so I said, "Let's do ... We'll have one." We got engaged, and, um, and I got pregnant. That was the most transformational, like, moment in, in my life. My family is everything, and kids are, like, the most, like, incredible layer to life, and I love what I do. Like, absolutely love what I do, but it's like there's nothing like it.

Jay Shetty 54:21 Oh.

Kelly Wearstler 54:21 And it's, like, just everything. And, um, yeah, it's the most beautiful thing. Like, my kids are my heroes. They teach me, like, so much about life and, you know, um, and I just had a baby. And, you know, so many people are like, "Oh, well, you have two older kids," and like, you know, "What would you do differently?" Like, reflecting. And it's spend the most amount of time with your kids now because it goes by so fast.

Jay Shetty 54:46 Mm. Yeah. Where, how's that,

Jay Shetty 54:49 how has that been with also, of course, your ambition and you working on so many projects? Like, you've been able to- It sounds like be so present with your kids and not have to give up your passion. And I think that that's such an important thing that we also need to see as well because I think in that advice of people thinking, "God, I need to spend every time," we kind of let go of the things that you value. How have you... And I don't like the word balance, 'cause I don't think that's necessarily what I'm asking. It's almost like how do you keep passion and presence alive, present with your family, but then your passion, which kind of keeps you alive. How do you keep both alive?

Kelly Wearstler 55:24 It can be a struggle. And what I do is when I'm at work, I am so present with my team. And, and I go to my studio. Like, I love going to my studio. I'm, like, in the thick of it with them every day. But I make time for my, for my kids, and obviously there are things that, that you miss out on. And, you know, it's all about prioritizing-

Jay Shetty 55:47 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 55:47 ... and having a, a routine and, and schedule. And yes, like reflecting, you know, with, with Oliver and Elliot when they were younger, and this is before there was, like, Zoom meeting and working from home and all that, is I missed things. I was traveling and, you know, it, it, it broke my heart.

Jay Shetty 56:06 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 56:06 But I was also happy. I was happy that I was being fulfilled as a designer, and I was living my dream, and I am living my dream. And, and they see that, and, and it makes me an incredible mom because I get to teach them things.

Jay Shetty 56:21 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 56:22 But yeah, it's definitely, you know, can be, can be tough.

Jay Shetty 56:25 What

Jay Shetty 56:26 is the difference between creativity and replication, and is replication the thief of creativity?

Kelly Wearstler 56:33 It's, it's such an interesting question. And for me, creativity comes within. It's your soul, and it's your stylistic voice. And replication is looking outward. So what maybe inspires you to, uh, design a certain way, um, and, you know, for example, replication can inform creativity. And if we're designing a front desk of a hotel and the functionality works so well, we're going to incorporate that, but then we're gonna give it a new spirit by skinning it with another material. So that's where the replication comes into play. Uh, but creativity truly comes from within, and as an artist or a designer or a chef, it's like it's their creative, uh, their creative voice.

Jay Shetty 57:32 Mm.

Jay Shetty 57:33 When, when you were on the journey towards the successful career you have now, were there moments of experiencing burnout, where it's like, "Okay, I've taken this project on. Okay, wow, I've got another project. But oh, no, they want me to do the whole house. And oh, my gosh, now I've got another one"? And I feel like a lot of creators today, especially online, feel a lot of burnout because they feel like they have to keep up with their own success. They may have had an overnight moment which led to more work, which is exciting but equally challenging. Even during the pandemic, there were so many companies that went through their biggest scaling, but also led to people having to work harder and longer. So how have you thought about burnout?

Kelly Wearstler 58:11 Saying no is just as important, uh, to saying yes. And there are projects that I really wanted to take, but it just would have just over-indated and stressed the studio. And so timing is everything. And I know there's gonna be other projects that will be on the horizon. But you want to do a great job. I'm personally so involved in every aspect of my business. I'm in my studio every day providing the creative leadership to the team. I'm involved in the business. I'm involved in so m- every aspect of the studio. And so you really have to, uh, kind of pick and choose, like, the right time.

Jay Shetty 58:53 Yeah. How do you trust that the next project will come? I think that's so brave and thoughtful that you're like, "Look, I want to do a great job. I'm only gonna take these few projects. I get it. I have to say no even though I'm so in love with this. But I trust that the right projects will come." How did you kind of build that sense of trust? Because I think a lot of us fear that, oh, no, maybe I'll never get an opportunity again if I miss this one. So how did you have that more open mindset that, yes, I trust?

Kelly Wearstler 59:23 Well, because it came from the mistake of taking on. At one point, I took on a lot of work, and I just remember just, oh my God, I cannot wait for these projects. It was we were doing three hotels at one time and some residential projects. And so of course, I'm like, well, we're just gonna hire more people. But you have to be so in tune with your team. And when you have a lot of new team, it takes, like, a year or so for them to really get in sync with what's going on in the studio, how it operates, what's the, the, the philosophies. And so making the mistake of taking on too much, and I remember it was a really, like, you know, stressful time, and I was burning the midnight oil and, uh, you know, and the team was. And, and then you lose a team because they're burnt out, and, you know, that's, you know, terrible.

Jay Shetty 1:00:13 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:13 And, uh, so, so really from those mistakes I learned to, uh, to pace myself.

Jay Shetty 1:00:19 Mm. Do you have a turn-off?

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:21 When I sleep.

Jay Shetty 1:00:22 [laughs] That's good.

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:24 That's good.

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:24 When I sleep, and I hit the pillow so hard, and I'm out. And I have the Oura Ring, which I love, so I know I sleep very well. But, um, yeah, when I sleep is when I completely turn it off. And, uh, but then I dream design.

Jay Shetty 1:00:39 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:40 I really, I dream design. It's amazing. I'll wake up, and I'm like, oh my God, I wish I had turned the corner to see, like, what was next or... So, uh, but sleep. And I go a million miles a minute, and I love it. I would not have it any other way. I love- I'm not, like, a great person with a lot of free time.

Jay Shetty 1:00:57 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 1:00:57 I love being busy.

Jay Shetty 1:00:58 I mean,

Jay Shetty 1:00:59 tell us about some of your dreams. Do you, have you ever invented, created, curated in your dreams, and taken something out of it or?

Kelly Wearstler 1:01:05 A hundred percent. Like, there was, um, like the staircase actually in Austin.

Jay Shetty 1:01:10 I love that staircase.

Kelly Wearstler 1:01:11 Like, that was, like, kind of a moment of something that, that I dreamed about, and, and the pottery. And it's kind of, like, not something you would traditionally see, like a really big staircase in a new, you know, contemporary architecture. And, um, so that was something that I, that I dreamed about. And, like, the other night I was having a dream that I was in a house, and there was, like, this really amazing light fixture that had all of these, um, um, like, uh, strings of some sort with these small little, uh, lights, and it was, like, really, it was, like, very artistic. Like, it's in my mind's eye, and we'll see where it comes up in, in the design. But yes, I, I do dream design.

Jay Shetty 1:01:52 I love that. That's, that's wonderful to hear because, yeah, it just shows how obsessed you are and how immersed you are in the world that it's, i- it's even happening in your dreams. And that staircase, it's so, it's so amazing though, and I love that it's dream to design.

Kelly Wearstler 1:02:05 Well, but also it's being visual.

Jay Shetty 1:02:07 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 1:02:07 Because I see-

Jay Shetty 1:02:08 Right

Kelly Wearstler 1:02:08 ... so many images, like, all day because when we're doing concept presentations, like, we're constantly curating images to help, uh, present our story and the concept to, to the client. And so I just have, like, this library of, like, images constantly going through my head. So I know that obviously is the inspiration for my brain.

Jay Shetty 1:02:30 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I love the dream to design because when I'm reacting to that staircase, people are like, "Jay, it's a staircase. Relax." But it really does spark so much joy. Like, I look at it and I go, "Wow," like, you know? And so it's amazing how design from your dream can actually spark moments of awe, which are so nice to experience when you're just walking around doing your daily tasks, you know? So special. I,

Jay Shetty 1:02:55 I want to ask you a question, Kelly, around artists valuing their work, or even creatives or coaches or experts, whatever it may be. I think so many of us, and I get this question a lot, "Jay, I don't feel confident enough to charge what I think I'm worth." Like, people forget the amount of time they trained. People forget the amount of time they worked. It becomes really hard to come up with an hourly rate or a project rate or a piece of art, right? I have, I have friends who are artists who are constantly, like, not knowing how to charge. How did you make sense of how you wanted to price yourself, and how do you encourage people to figure out how they price themselves? What things could they think about in order to do that?

Kelly Wearstler 1:03:36 Well, it all has to do with if you, if you really want to be involved in the project. For example, we just had this happen, like, there was a really amazing project, um, that's in Asia that, you know, I'd love to be part of, and our fee was too high. And I know I'm gonna be very involved, but I really want to take the project. And so the client came back and was like, "How can we make this work?" So I think it's, like, communication and, uh, you know, and really, uh, you know, both parties valuing each other's worth. And, uh, so I think just being in really, you know, great communication. And we'll have, uh, you know, some emerging artists that I know are struggling, and they're just getting started, and we want to bring them on to a project as, for a commission. And, um, you know, we'll figure out ways, like can we internally help them get to a place where it's not gonna as, be as time-consuming? So I think there's really many different ways. Like, communication is key.

Jay Shetty 1:04:30 How did you go about creating your first pricing structure? Because I feel like when someone's starting out as a creative, as a designer, as an artist, they can struggle so much with their self-worth and what their value is, but they don't want to miss out on the client. And so how would you encourage someone to think about pricing themselves, and how did you do it?

Kelly Wearstler 1:04:52 I really wanted the job. Like, my first project, I really wanted a job, and as I said, I didn't work for a design studio, so I didn't know really how, how to charge. And so I asked them. I said, "What do you feel comfortable paying me to do this project?" And they told me, and I was like, "Wow." [laughs] And, and so I came back to them with something I found, you know, thought was fair, and we met in the middle. But I was doing, I really wanted the project. And so, you know, that is one of the projects that I actually did the painting myself. And if you know this is a stepping stone in your career, then maybe you do take less for it. I think you have to, like, look at all the, um, the different factors in, in how you charge, and is it, you know, for a friend? Is this gonna be a big step in your career? Or, um, or is this something that, uh, you know is gonna take a lot of time on your part and your team's part and you have to charge accordingly?

Jay Shetty 1:05:55 Yeah, and I think that honesty, that's a, that, what you just shared there is really smart, and I want people to really listen to that. Is it a favor for a friend? Is it a project because it's just so epic you don't get to do things like that? Is it actually just gonna take a lot of your time and it's not that epic, like, it's just work? Which level is it? Because that's going to affect how you price yourself. And I'd also add that I've found that when people are coming up with their hourly rate, they're usually thinking about how much an hour is worth. But really, it's not about your hourly rate. It's about the hours it took to get there, so for you to learn the skills you have, the hours it took for you to make it as simple or as accessible or as useful as you did to that individual, whatever it is-

Kelly Wearstler 1:06:39 Yeah, so true

Jay Shetty 1:06:39 ... you're offering. Of course, it includes the hard costs of materials and things like that. But really, you're charging for how much someone values that time or effort or work. And- In these circles it can be hard to understand, and I think looking at other people that you aspire to be like or people that are in your fields can help you find that middle ground. But again, I love what you said about figuring out where it ranks in the order of-

Kelly Wearstler 1:07:07 Yeah, and most clients and, uh, are, like, reasonable. And if you, if you really lay out, like, "It's gonna take me this amount of hours," or, "It's gonna take a year to get this done, and it's, like, this, you know, uh, this much a, a, of a team." And on also the skill set because if you're, if you're gonna bring someone on, you know that they have an incredible skill set. They're gonna save you time, but they're also gonna save you money at the end because a mistake is, is money.

Jay Shetty 1:07:37 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:07:37 And so is it worth to pay someone up front who knows exactly what they're doing and how to operate?

Jay Shetty 1:07:43 Absolutely. That was great. Kelly, it's been such a joy talking to you today, and I'm glad that we've ... This has been a very unique episode. We've been reacting to beautiful pictures in your book. I've loved hearing about your stories as well of just, you know, the steps that it's taken to build this phenomenal career that you're having. And I love that you still feel like you're just at the beginning, which is such a great mindset

Jay Shetty 1:08:03 to have. But as you know, as a fan of the podcast, we end every episode with a final five, and you have to answer all these in one word or one sentence maximum.

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:12 Oh, my God.

Jay Shetty 1:08:12 But I always digress. So let's, let's start with the final five. All right. Question one is what is the best design advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:24 Diversity.

Jay Shetty 1:08:25 Hmm. Of everything. I'll let you expand now.

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:29 Diversity of scale-

Jay Shetty 1:08:32 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:32 ... of eras-

Jay Shetty 1:08:35 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:35 ... materiality. Because you don't-

Jay Shetty 1:08:37 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:37 ... wanna buy all your furniture in one place, and so many people do. They'll go to one place and buy all their furniture because they're in a rush. And so diversity is, like, so, so important.

Jay Shetty 1:08:48 Mm-hmm. Good advice. All right. So don't, don't buy everything from-

Kelly Wearstler 1:08:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:08:52 ... IKEA. Uh, trust me. I, I know. Yeah. I've done that many times. All right. Got it. Uh, second question: What is the worst design advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

Kelly Wearstler 1:09:05 That a project has to be done in such a short amount of time that you're forced to-

Jay Shetty 1:09:12 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 1:09:12 ... buy everything right now.

Jay Shetty 1:09:14 Hmm. Good advice.

Kelly Wearstler 1:09:15 Because you want to, to curate everything over time so it's meaningful.

Jay Shetty 1:09:22 I, I made that mistake earlier this year, and we didn't- luckily I didn't go through with it, but we ... The house was finished, and I wanted to do art. And that's the thing you should least rush.

Kelly Wearstler 1:09:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:31 But there was so much a part of me that was like, "I'm just tired of looking at blank walls, and I want to feel inspired in this space." And I, like ... I was quickly looking at collections and everything. Luckily, my wife is the ... So I'm a very decisive, quick person, and my wife is, like, really slow and will never make a decision if she doesn't have to. And so we balance each other out really well because I'll be like, "Yeah, I think this will fit there." And she'll be like, "No, I don't think so." And then we'll sit with it. And I think this idea of sitting with things is such a great ... You've, you've mentioned it multiple times in this conversation, and I've learned that skill through d- through working on my own home that sitting with something is the most important thing. But often we think once we've bought it and put it together, we have to keep it, and luckily there is a refund policy and a return policy.

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10:16 You can give things back. And I think it's, it's interesting. The idea of sitting with something is something we struggle to do. We think once we bought it, we have to keep it or we didn't buy it.

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:24 Well, everything is just so fast now.

Jay Shetty 1:10:26 Mm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:27 Everything, like, just is, like, going a million miles a minute, and you feel like you have to get something done. And it's such an exciting process-

Jay Shetty 1:10:37 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:37 ... of, like, you're curating things that you're gonna put into your home.

Jay Shetty 1:10:41 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:41 Uh, but, um, you know, take the long road home.

Jay Shetty 1:10:45 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, question three, I know you do a lot of ... Health and fitness is a big priority in your life in order to... How does that affect your creativity?

Kelly Wearstler 1:10:55 I come up with a lot of ideas. It's just, it's unbelievable having just this... It's active meditation for me where I can just cleanse my, my brain and, uh, and a lot of things come to me when I'm on a run. And, uh, and I love the sauna as well. Yeah, it's my active meditation. And when you create this clear space in your brain, it allows for creativity.

Jay Shetty 1:11:19 And is running your main form of that or is the, and sauna, or are there others, or is that your main-

Kelly Wearstler 1:11:24 Yeah, no, I do, uh, I do a little bit of everything. I like to change it up 'cause you wanna surprise your body, just like you always wanna surprise your audience, you know? And it's the same thing with you and me in, in design. And, uh, so surprising your body's so important. So I'll do Pilates, uh, cardio, strength training, like, mobility work, like, a little bit of everything, and I love playing tennis and, uh, also padel.

Jay Shetty 1:11:48 Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, I love padel.

Kelly Wearstler 1:11:50 Padel's so fun.

Jay Shetty 1:11:50 Padel is so cool. I keep missing your tennis parties.

Kelly Wearstler 1:11:53 It's-

Jay Shetty 1:11:53 I'm so upset with myself.

Kelly Wearstler 1:11:54 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:11:54 I love tennis too. And whenever you invite me, I, I'm out of town or traveling. It makes me so sad, so.

Kelly Wearstler 1:11:59 We just put in a padel court at our house.

Jay Shetty 1:12:02 No.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:02 And it's so much fun.

Jay Shetty 1:12:03 Oh, my gosh.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:03 It's such a great, like, social, um, sport. We-

Jay Shetty 1:12:06 With the glass walls?

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:07 With the glass walls.

Jay Shetty 1:12:07 Oh, my gosh.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:08 And we played the first time, uh, last year. We went to Brazil, and they're all over there.

Jay Shetty 1:12:12 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:13 And, uh, it's so much fun.

Jay Shetty 1:12:15 I got into it in Dubai, and so Dubai's really taken off, and then I played it in Miami. But it hasn't taken off in LA 'cause pickleball has, so I've been playing pickleball. But padel is-

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:25 We just this weekend met this guy who's a padel... Uh, he's from Spain. He's, like, a padel expert. He's a teacher. And he told us there are 11 courts in, in Los Angeles.

Jay Shetty 1:12:35 Where?

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:35 They're, like... They're at people's homes.

Jay Shetty 1:12:37 Oh, right, yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:37 There's actually one ironically on Santa Monica-

Jay Shetty 1:12:41 Okay

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:41 ... like, near, um, uh, like, by the Peninsula Hotel.

Jay Shetty 1:12:45 Oh, wow.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:45 Like, a really random place.

Jay Shetty 1:12:46 Okay.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:46 But it's such a, it's such a fun sport, and I like it because it's a little more, like, skill and, um-

Jay Shetty 1:12:52 Totally

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:52 ... uh-

Jay Shetty 1:12:53 Unpredictable

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:53 ... and a little more challenging.

Jay Shetty 1:12:54 It's a little more unpredictable-

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:55 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:12:55 ... than pickleball for sure because you've gotta be great at physics to play padel.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:59 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:12:59 You have no idea.

Kelly Wearstler 1:12:59 It's like chess.

Jay Shetty 1:13:00 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:00 It's like active chess. It's, like, so, um, yeah, it's so fun and so- and really, uh, social.

Jay Shetty 1:13:06 Absolutely. All right. Question four and five, last two questions. Question four: What's the first thing you think about when you look at a space to bring it to life?

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:18 What's outside the window.

Jay Shetty 1:13:20 Interesting. Walk us through that.

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:22 It's like what is outside the window is so important because it's part of your interiors. Like, you have to look at it as it's like your first piece of art-

Jay Shetty 1:13:29 Hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:29 ... in the room.

Jay Shetty 1:13:30 Hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:31 So is it a tree? Is it another building across the street? Um, is it the mountains? You know, it's so important to, to the space.

Jay Shetty 1:13:40 Wow, that, I, I did not expect that.

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:41 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:13:41 But there you go, you know? And, and how, how do you use that to info what goes on inside?

Kelly Wearstler 1:13:48 Well, if we're selecting, like we were working on a project in New York, and there was a terracotta building outside the window. And so, like, and it was ... There were large windows. There was five of them that go across, um, this elevation. And so it's really, it's like a large piece of art in the room, so we need some- something that really, um, speaks to, to the window and, and the materiality on the building. And so we had to consider it. And, um, so it's, it's really, you know, an important part of the design.

Jay Shetty 1:14:17 What are some of the ... I'm, I'm digressing here from the final five, but what's some, what are some of the biggest mistakes you think we make when it comes to setting up our spaces and our rooms? What are some things to avoid that people can look out for?

Kelly Wearstler 1:14:29 Like, one thing that I love that I think a lot of people, um, like for small spaces, mirror goes so- such a long way, and it actually really feels good. Like, there's great feng shui in mirror, and where it's placed is so important. And, uh, it not only creates a window if you have one window in your room. Like, we're working on a hotel project in Lake Tahoe, and, you know, we're using, you know, really beautiful millwork and incorporating mirror. And, like, the transformation of the room and what it does to the space is, is unbelievable.

Jay Shetty 1:15:07 Wow. Yeah, that's a great note. And-

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:09 But, but I would say, too, the, the furniture, like really low seating just is, makes your space seem so much more expansive.

Jay Shetty 1:15:17 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:17 And lighting is so important.

Jay Shetty 1:15:19 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:20 And, like, one thing, like, we really avoid is, like, just directional down lights. You have to be so, uh, careful that they're not over seating areas-

Jay Shetty 1:15:28 Mm

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:28 ... because, you know, we have people ... And come to the hotel, we want people to look, like, great-

Jay Shetty 1:15:33 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:33 ... and feel amazing.

Jay Shetty 1:15:35 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:35 And, um, so lighting is, like, really, I think, underestimated-

Jay Shetty 1:15:39 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:39 ... and, um, should be really considered.

Jay Shetty 1:15:42 Got it. All right. Great answers. All right. Fifth and final question. If you could create one design law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:52 Really understand what your style is.

Jay Shetty 1:15:55 Hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:15:56 And frequent museums and galleries and go out and see what things say to you because you're gonna discover something that you didn't know was-

Jay Shetty 1:16:08 Yeah

Kelly Wearstler 1:16:08 ... inside you that's gonna make your interior represent who you are.

Jay Shetty 1:16:13 I think that's great life advice and design advice. It's, it's knowing who you are and, and, and allowing enough input. I definitely found that when, when we moved from London to New York and then from New York to LA, it was just, I just got exposed to so much more than I'd ever been exposed to, and that exposure is what also helped define and edit who you were and who you wanted to be, so.

Kelly Wearstler 1:16:35 And you're constantly changing.

Jay Shetty 1:16:37 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:16:38 Like, the more you see, like I look at projects I did 20 years ago, and they're, they're great and, but they're different than how I would approach things now.

Jay Shetty 1:16:51 Yes.

Kelly Wearstler 1:16:51 Just taking your time, it's, like, so important.

Jay Shetty 1:16:54 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:16:54 And I go a mi- a million miles a minute, and I get excited about things, and I want things to happen now. And but really just, like, taking your time. Like, pace is everything.

Jay Shetty 1:17:06 Mm-hmm. Well, Kelly, thank you for your time today, and thank you for being so present and gracious and kind. And thank you for being so trusting of me. I've loved having this conversation with you. And I hope that everyone who's been listening or watching has found some inspiration, some spark, some creativity to help enliven and, uh, and, uh, bring to life their spaces because I, I really do believe design can make you happy. I really do believe that design and aesthetics in our spaces can define how we feel and how we move and the emotions that we go through. And so thank you so much.

Kelly Wearstler 1:17:37 And design, too, Jay, is of something else about design-

Jay Shetty 1:17:40 Please

Kelly Wearstler 1:17:40 ... that we're speaking that is, is very more aesthetic, but it also makes our lives easier.

Jay Shetty 1:17:46 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:17:47 And that's something that continues to get better and better, and which is gonna give us more time. And so not only the aesthetic of design but also the functionality-

Jay Shetty 1:17:59 Mm-hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:17:59 ... which is really, you know, critical.

Jay Shetty 1:18:02 Give us an example of that because that's a great, great point, and we didn't talk about that. Tell, tell, tell us a bit more about how we can think about our spaces functionally in order to make them easier as well. What have you found, or what little tips have worked for you for that?

Kelly Wearstler 1:18:15 Well, in our studio we're actually, uh, working with AI. And after, uh, like during the holidays and, you know, the fall when OpenAI, uh, announced the, the, you know, generative, uh, intelligence and, and what it can do, uh, I just listened to a lot of podcasts and read up on it, and I was like, I'm gonna implement this in my studio in some way. And obviously you can't go full force into it. So I, in each department I, uh, have, like, a director, and we're using it, uh, every day. And it's been, like, really profound and really inspirational. And it's not designing, um, spaces for us, but it is actually generating ideas that we can implement into a project and something that maybe we never thought of. And, you know, and I tell the team, I'm like, "Listen, this is like you have, like, a junior designer by your side-

Jay Shetty 1:19:08 Hmm

Kelly Wearstler 1:19:08 ... that can help implement it." I'm super bullish on AI and what it's doing for my business. ... is, is unbelievable, and we're only, like, at the surface. And soon we're not gonna have just a junior designer. Everyone's gonna have a senior designer working for them. And it's not gonna take away what we do, because you gotta have somebody driving the ship. But it's, um, it's fascinating and love it.

Jay Shetty 1:19:33 Yeah, no, I love hearing you embrace that because I think so many people get scared like, "Oh, no," like, "people can just design their rooms by AI." But I think when you're confident and conscious of what you're doing. What do you think, what parts do you think it's gonna help replace and help solve versus what parts do you think you're like, "Well, wait a minute, my brain will always be able to, you know, do this part better"?

Kelly Wearstler 1:19:55 Uh, it's, it's just generating, like idea generation, but also, like, Photoshop and how s- quickly that you can get things done now. So maybe we can take on a certain amount of work a year, but it's gonna enable us to probably take on more projects and be more efficient with our time. And then when you're more efficient with your time, your team's more happy.

Jay Shetty 1:20:17 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:17 Because then they have free time. So, so I think it's going to make our... And this is, I'm not an expert in AI. I'm just telling you how I'm using it, um, and my studio using it. But it's gonna benefit us in so many ways and helping give us more free time.

Jay Shetty 1:20:35 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:36 And idea generation.

Jay Shetty 1:20:37 Yeah.

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:37 Which is great because it's like having a new person on your team, a new creative spirit on a project every day.

Jay Shetty 1:20:44 [laughs]

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:45 Which is-

Jay Shetty 1:20:45 With the same level of energy

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:46 ... which is un- which is unbelievable. Which is unbelievable.

Jay Shetty 1:20:48 Yeah. That's great. I love it. Well, thank you again, Kelly. Thank you so much.

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:52 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:20:52 This was so wonderful. I hope you-

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:53 Yeah, you're amazing

Jay Shetty 1:20:54 ... felt good and nice.

Kelly Wearstler 1:20:55 And I, and thanks for having me, and I'm so happy to be here finally with you. And, uh, and you're, uh, you're amazing.

Jay Shetty 1:21:03 Oh, you're so kind.

Kelly Wearstler 1:21:03 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:21:04 Well, I'm glad that we keep, uh, deepening our friendship. And I, I'll never forget the first time I met you, and how, how kind and sweet you were to me, so thank you so much. And I'm glad that, you know, the book's available. I'm glad that, I'm glad that we're drinking from your glasses.

Kelly Wearstler 1:21:17 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:21:17 This is, this is spectacular. These are beautiful. I can't wait to shop the whole collection. Thank you so much. If you loved this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.

Speaker 1:21:30 If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over 1,000 convicted felons and over 100 murderers, and their brains are very damaged