WORLD LEADING THERAPIST: #1 Mistake People Make in Love (20+ Years as a Therapist Taught me THIS!)

1. 0:00 – 0:54

   Intro

   1. JSJay Shetty0:00

      I'm so excited to finally share the live interviews from my very first podcast tour. This episode features my interview with Lori Gottlieb at DAR Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C. Wow, wow, wow, everyone. I am so excited to be here tonight at the DAR Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C. with the one and only Lori Gottlieb. Give it up for Lori, everyone. [cheering] [applauding] Now, Lori has been, uh, a dear friend for the last few years and has been one of our most popular On Purpose guests. She's been on the show at least three times, and we're gonna have her back on every year that she possibly can. So Lori, to do this in person when we're usually in the studio is a real treat, so thank you so much for flying out as well. I'm so grateful that you're here.

   2. LGLori Gottlieb0:51

      Oh, I'm so happy to be here with this wonderful crowd in D.C.

2. 0:54 – 3:16

   Earning Love Through Real Connection

   1. JSJay Shetty0:54

      [laughs]

   2. LGLori Gottlieb0:54

      [cheering] [applauding]

   3. JSJay Shetty0:57

      I love it. So I wanna dive straight in with you, Lori, because I really wanna dive into your mind. You have so many incredible insights. And something we've been talking about tonight is this idea of being worried about what people think of us, and the hardest person's perception that we take the most seriously is our partner's.

   4. LGLori Gottlieb1:17

      Yeah.

   5. JSJay Shetty1:18

      And a lot of us can sometimes feel we're performing in relationships to try and get that validation, to try and get that attention, to try and get that affection. Why do so many of us feel that way, and what do we do about it?

   6. LGLori Gottlieb1:31

      It's interesting. You know, I think in the beginning of a relationship there's this joke that you're not you, they're-- you're the ambassador of you.

   7. JSJay Shetty1:37

      [laughs]

   8. LGLori Gottlieb1:37

      So, you know, we're all trying to put our best foot forward. We're trying to impress the other person. But I think that once we're in the relationship, we all have some part of us that worries that we're not lovable. And maybe we're going through something hard or maybe we're not feeling great about ourselves. Um, the other person is, is going through something, like they're having great success and we don't feel like we measure up. And so I think what happens is we feel like we have to earn our love, that we're not enough just to be there, that we have to somehow earn it through these external criteria, like I have to be so attractive and so funny and so entertaining and, you know, all the things. And what... You do have to earn love, by the way, but you earn it by being relational. So people wanna be in relationships with people who are relational. They don't wanna be in relationships with people who can't listen, aren't emotionally generous, those kinds of things. But I think that, you know, when we think about performing in a relationship, that has to do with, "I don't believe that you will love me if I don't earn your love," and that's a belief that we need to get rid of.

   9. JSJay Shetty2:49

      How do we do that?

   10. LGLori Gottlieb2:50

       Well, I, [laughs] I think you need to understand that that's not the way that you earn love. So the way you earn love, as I said, is, is being relational. It's not about all of these other things that we try to do, like I need to look this way or be this way. The person cares about you. They're with you, so you need to show up. And I think that that's really the answer, is how do you... how can you be in a relationship with somebody? You have to show up. Otherwise,

3. 3:16 – 6:51

   Why You Should Speak Up Early

   1. LGLori Gottlieb3:16

      if you're just in your head the whole time, you're not even there.

   2. JSJay Shetty3:19

      So many of the people that I speak to, and I'm sure a lot of you can agree with this, I think a lot of people feel that at one point in their relationship they find that their partner doesn't wanna open up, doesn't wanna talk about their feelings, isn't comfortable being vulnerable, and may actually be more closed off. So I often find in a relationship there's one person who wants to talk about everything-

   3. LGLori Gottlieb3:41

      [laughs]

   4. JSJay Shetty3:42

      ... and then the other person doesn't wanna talk about anything. And so even though we wanna be relational, you often find that one person doesn't. Whether they don't have the emotional capacity, whether they don't feel they're ready, whether they don't even allow themselves to think about these things, what do you do when you're in a relation-- Can everyone relate to that, by the way? Just make some noise.

   5. LGLori Gottlieb4:02

      [laughs]

   6. JSJay Shetty4:02

      Yeah. All right. When you're with someone like that, what do you do? Where do you start? Because you wanna be with them. They're not being relational. They don't wanna listen to you. They don't wanna talk about their life. W- how do you navigate that?

   7. LGLori Gottlieb4:17

      First of all, I think it's really important that you notice that at the beginning of a relationship. So many people will say, you know, "Oh, this person doesn't really open up," or, "They're not really there. They're not really being vulnerable with me, but that's okay 'cause that will come." And then you keep going and you think, "Okay, well, it, it will come later," but it's still not coming. Why do we do that? Why do we ignore that? Because it's almost like attribution bias. [laughs] You know? It's like you want to attribute certain traits to the person that they don't actually have. And that's why I always say at the beginning of a relationship, um, you wanna bring things up. People are afraid to for the reason that we said. You know, we want to be the ambassador of us at the beginning of the relationship. But actually, you wanna bring things up early and often, and that's because relationships are like cement. If you let the cement dry, it's... and, and so you say, "Okay, this is... this'll change later," then you're gonna have to get out a jackhammer, dig everything up.

   8. JSJay Shetty5:16

      [laughs]

   9. LGLori Gottlieb5:17

      Right? It's just, it's really hard. But if there's still room, you can say to your partner, "Hey, I'm having trouble making contact with you. What's going on? Is there something about the way that we're relating? Why is it, you know, I'm, I'm ha- I really wanna get to know you better, but I'm having trouble, um, really understanding what's going on inside?" And some of that is gendered, okay? So some of it is a lot of times men feel like, "If I open up and be vulnerable, then I'm gonna be perceived as weak," or, "I'm gonna be perceived, you know, differently." And, and there's some part of, of women that we need to learn to provide space for men to be vulnerable. Because what happens is when, when I'm doing couples therapy, what I'll see is if it happens to be a man and a woman, I will see that the woman will say to her partner, "I'm so glad you're here. I really wanna talk about all this stuff that we can't talk about, and I want you to tell me what's going on. I wanna really know what's going on inside of you." And then he opens up, and then maybe he tears up.Maybe he starts crying, and she's like, "Whoa." [laughs] Right? So part of it is, I don't feel safe when you don't open up to me, but I also, in a weird way, and I can't explain it, I don't feel safe when you're crying either. So we need to make sure that we are providing the space for the, the partner who's not vulnerable to be vulnerable. We can ask them what would be helpful. And, and I think we just don't ask the questions, and then we say, "Well, this person's not capable of it." They

4. 6:51 – 11:20

   Creating a Safe Space for Vulnerability

   1. LGLori Gottlieb6:51

      might be very capable of it if you give them the space.

   2. JSJay Shetty6:55

      We're all looking for that safety.

   3. LGLori Gottlieb6:56

      Yeah.

   4. JSJay Shetty6:57

      And we're so scared that if we showed our true selves, then it wouldn't be a safe space anymore, and that maybe that part of us will be too hard to handle, too hard to hold, too hard to embrace, and so we just lock it up inside, and we never share that. We never show that. And the challenge that happens is the other person thinks you don't have the capacity, and actually, you're thinking, "Well, I don't think you actually have the capacity for me to be all of myself." And, and it really does require a lot from people to allow their partner to be all of themselves. How do we, how do we communicate that we're ready to create a safe space for that person, and how do we actually create the resilience in ourselves to have the space for whatever may come? Like, I remember when I was talking to a couple a few years ago, uh, it was, it was similar to the, the gender, uh, play that you mentioned, where she was like, "I want you to be really, really open to the man." And he was just like, "Well, if I tell you this, I'm scared you won't like it."

   5. LGLori Gottlieb8:05

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JSJay Shetty8:05

      And then he opened up about some of the challenges he'd had in his past, and that really made her feel insecure about him, even though it wasn't to do with them. So it can be really complicated. How do we truly have emotional availability to make space for what someone has to say for us?

   7. LGLori Gottlieb8:23

      That's such an important point because it's not just saying that you have the space, it's actually having the space. And that's where it's hard for us sometimes to separate out who we are from who they are. So they're telling you something about them, and they're asking you to sit with them. They're inviting you to come closer. And we think, "Oh, they're telling me something that feels threatening to me." So there, there's-- when we talk about vulnerability, there's two kinds of vulnerability. There's vulnerability of I'm gonna tell you something about my past that feels delicate to me, but what really kind of triggers the partner sometimes is I'm going to tell you something about you in relation to me that is delicate.

   8. JSJay Shetty9:04

      Mm.

   9. LGLori Gottlieb9:05

      And so how can we be vulnerable about something relational between us? And that's where couples get into a lot of trouble because instead of hearing the other person, they're getting defensive, they're feeling blamed, they're feeling criticized, when really the invitation is, "Please come closer. I trust you, and I feel close to you." So isn't it funny how we hear the opposite message?

   10. JSJay Shetty9:28

       [laughs]

   11. LGLori Gottlieb9:28

       We hear, like, "Something's wrong with you. You're damaged. I'm criticizing you." That's what we're hearing. But actually, the invitation was the opposite. And that's because in any moment when there are two people in conversation, there are up to a dozen people in the room. [laughs] And by that, I mean think about who's in the room. Like, take attendance. Have any of you ever been talking to somebody else in the room, and it feels like it's not just the two of you? Anybody? Where it feels like, wow, something else-- I don't know what just happened with the other person, but that's not what I said. That's not what I meant. That wasn't-

   12. JSJay Shetty10:04

       [laughs]

   13. LGLori Gottlieb10:04

       You know, that, like, that what conversation are they in? Well, that is because you need to say, you know, who's in the room? Uh, a parent, a grandparent, their parents because of the generational patterns that have gone down through the generations, a teacher who told you that you would never amount to something, the teacher who told you you were fabulous, um, you know, and, uh, the first boyfriend or girlfriend you had. Like, all those people are in the room, but we don't know it, so you have to-- if you're having a big reaction to something, we always say, "If it's hysterical, it's historical."

   14. JSJay Shetty10:39

       [laughs]

   15. LGLori Gottlieb10:40

       If you are having a reaction that feels outsized to what is actually being said, it's like you went from zero to sixty in your body, if it's hysterical, it's historical. Who else? Who are these figures in the room? Take attendance. See who's in the room, and then who do you want to invite in the room, and who's not invited? And then tell the people very kindly, "Hey, Mom. Hey, Dad. Hey, Grandma. Hey, sibling. Um, you're not invited into this conversation, so you go, and I'm gonna come back into the conversation with this person that I'm talking to."

   16. JSJay Shetty11:14

       Wow, I love that. [clapping] I love that. That's so powerful. Uh, it, it

5. 11:20 – 13:55

   Can You Love Someone Without Loving Yourself?

   1. JSJay Shetty11:20

      resonates so strongly with so many interactions I can think of. I wanted to ask you, Lori, can you truly love someone if you don't love yourself?

   2. LGLori Gottlieb11:30

      Mm. I get asked that question all the time, and I think the better question is, can you truly accept someone if you don't accept yourself? One of the most loving things you can do to yourself and to other people is acceptance, and acceptance doesn't mean settling or compromising. It means embracing the fullness of the other person's humanity and embracing the fullness of your humanity. So when people say, you know, "Will you love me if..." right? It's, "Do you accept me fully?" is really the question. And I don't think that you can accept someone else fully if you don't accept yourself fully because, you know, we can't order up people à la carte, you know? Like, like, we think we can just order up anything the way we want nowadays.

   3. JSJay Shetty12:17

      [laughs]

   4. LGLori Gottlieb12:17

      Just with, like, you can order online, you can get anything. It's like, you know, what are your special instructions? Um, you know, leave this on the side. You can't do that with people. They just come the way they come. So you can't be like, "Yeah, I love everything about you, but I wanna leave, like, your anxiety on the side."

   5. JSJay Shetty12:33

      [laughs]

   6. LGLori Gottlieb12:33

      "I wanna leave your neurosis on the side. I wanna leave, you know, that history that you have with that other person on the side. I wish that didn't happen." Um, you can't do that. So they come fully formed, no substitutions. It's the way it is on the menu. That's how they come.And you, you do too, by the way. You have-- So we forget, sometimes we think, like, "I have to accept all these things about the other person." What about the things that they're accepting about you?

   7. JSJay Shetty12:58

      Ooh. [laughs]

   8. LGLori Gottlieb12:59

      Right? And if you were truly honest about it, not like in a job interview when people say, you know, "What is your greatest weakness?" And you couch it as a strength. Like, "I work too hard."

   9. JSJay Shetty13:08

      [laughs]

   10. LGLori Gottlieb13:08

       Right? You know, that's my greatest weakness is I'm just a perfectionist and I work too hard. Well, no, that's not on your list. The, the list has to be something real like, "I can be really inflexible," or, um, "I am still working on this one thing and that can be challenging for my partner." Um, you know, whatever the things are, be honest. You know what the things are that you have to accept, and once you accept those in yourself, what happens is something kind of miraculous. Not only do you feel more loved because you are more accepted, but they become smaller. So those things that feel very huge to you, once you've said, "You know what? I'm not gonna focus on them or obsess about them anymore," all of a sudden they don't take up so much emotional real estate. It's like, I just accept

6. 13:55 – 20:37

   How Acceptance Strengthens Your Relationship

   1. LGLori Gottlieb13:55

      that about myself. Moving on.

   2. JSJay Shetty13:58

      Yeah. That's super powerful advice. There's a- [audience clapping] That, that resonates so much more, the word acceptance versus love, because I, I think love kinda gets convoluted when you're having that conversation, like, "Do I love myself? Do they love me? Do I love them?" Whereas acceptance kind of gets to the heart of it. And even as I was listening to it, I was thinking about, like, I was talking to someone else yesterday about this, and I was talking about me and my wife Radhi.

   3. LGLori Gottlieb14:25

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JSJay Shetty14:26

      And I was explaining that really acceptance is what helps our relationship work. We're very different people. We have very different priorities, and we have a lot of different things that we like and engage with, but we respect that that's what makes the other person attractive to us.

   5. LGLori Gottlieb14:47

      Yes.

   6. JSJay Shetty14:47

      So, so what I mean by that is when Radhi met me, I'm, I'm the same person I've been, which is I'm mission-oriented. I'm very focused on my purpose. It's my top priority in life, and I love it. And thankfully, knock on wood, in the last 12 years, Radhi's never said to me, "You work too much," because she knows I love this. This is who I am. It's who I always was. And for Radhi, her top fo-priority is her family. She loves them, her niece and her nephew, her grandma, her mom and dad, like, her sister, like, that's her top priority, and so she loves visiting them in England and going back even though we live in LA, and I love that because I'm like, the reason why Radhi is so lovable is because of her loving relationship with her family. And so it becomes an acceptance point of recognizing that what -- It's almost like you don't wanna take away the secret sauce that makes your partner your partner, whether their, it's their ambition, whether it's their love for their family, whatever it may be, and when you respect it and accept it, it allows for things to blossom. Whereas when you try and take it away, you actually end up becoming their kryptonite.

   7. LGLori Gottlieb15:49

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty15:49

      And you're making them weaker by taking away the very thing that they value. Does that make sense?

   9. LGLori Gottlieb15:54

      Yeah. I think of relationships as almost like a relationship is like a startup. It's like you're building, you're co-founding this, this, whatever you're building, and every single relationship, it's like a snowflake. It's unique. There's no other relationship out there like it. There will be overlap, but the fact is these two individuals coming together are creating something that no one else can create. And so if you take away something from one of the other people, that might be something that is really adds to the richness of the relationship. You don't want to change, uh, you know, the person that you're with. You might, there might change interactions between you. That's different. So you, if you wanna change the way that you relate to each other, but you don't wanna change the essence of the person.

   10. JSJay Shetty16:42

       Yeah. I wanna give another example of a weakness that I had, uh, that I had to work on which, which really helped me when it comes to this acceptance point. At one point in our relationship, I was always like, I was upset that Radhi didn't organize more vacations, and I was the one doing all the organizing. Anyone can relate? If anyone's me in the relationship? Yeah. And, and so I was upset about that, and I remember communicating that to her, and I said, "Look, like, I'd really appreciate it if you also organized the vacations." And she said something that was so honest to me and, and it was, it really, really resonated with me. She goes, "Jay, I would happily organize any of our vacations, but the problem is if I organize it, you'll have a million pieces of feedback."

   11. LGLori Gottlieb17:24

       Mm-hmm. [laughs]

   12. JSJay Shetty17:26

       "But if you organized it, I, I'll just happily do whatever you wanna do." And, and it took me a second, but she was spot on. I'm like a perfectionist. I want it done this way. I want it... And, and I realized, I was like, actually, she's the sweetest person in the world because when I organize a vacation, she's happy to be a part of it and won't even ever say to me like, "Oh, I wish we did this," or, "We should have done this," whereas I would be like that the whole time.

   13. SPSpeaker17:52

       [laughs]

   14. JSJay Shetty17:52

       And, and, and it was such a like holding up a mirror to me and, and I realized that I was the one discouraging her from taking responsibility in a relationship because of how I would respond, and that was a lot of self-awareness that I didn't have at that moment, and it was such a powerful thing to learn to accept that even though I thought she wasn't doing something for me, actually it was because of how I was behaving.

   15. LGLori Gottlieb18:17

       That happens so often. I, I remember, um, when I was seeing this couple, um, she was saying, "You know, I want you to stop by on the way home from the gym. I want you to stop by to the market, and I want you to get these things." And they had a baby, and she wanted him to get organic strawberries.

   16. JSJay Shetty18:33

       [laughs]

   17. LGLori Gottlieb18:33

       They did not have organic strawberries at Trader Joe's that day. So [laughs] what did he do? He got the regular strawberries.

   18. JSJay Shetty18:41

       Oh, no.

   19. LGLori Gottlieb18:42

       [laughs]

   20. JSJay Shetty18:43

       We know how this goes, guys.

   21. LGLori Gottlieb18:44

       Okay. Now, I wanna say #firstworldproblems, right?

   22. SPSpeaker18:47

       [laughs]

   23. LGLori Gottlieb18:47

       But at the same time, these are like the tiny... What do people fight about most? They're these tiny things that mean something much bigger. So for her, this meant, "You don't pay attention to what's important for me and our baby."Right? And for him, it was like, "No, I did. I did exactly what you asked, and if I had done it my way, I would've gone to the other place, and maybe they would've had organic strawberries, but I was following your directions, so I wouldn't get in trouble, and then I got in trouble anyway."

   24. JSJay Shetty19:18

       [laughs]

   25. LGLori Gottlieb19:19

       So these are the kinds of things when we try to control our partners, we're not giving them the autonomy to creatively do the things that actually would enhance the relationship. And when, you know, when we look at what is the number one, um, trait-- There are two-- There-- When we say like, "What ha- what makes couples work?" Okay? Um, emotional stability, and that means, like you basically, you know, have-- you're working on your stuff. Um, and the second thing is flexibility, that you have to be flexible. And so if you're the perfectionist in the relationship and you're trying to control your partner, um, that's gonna make you very, very difficult to live with, and-

   26. JSJay Shetty20:04

       [laughs]

   27. LGLori Gottlieb20:04

       And what'll happen is you will start to lose control because now that person doesn't wanna pay attention. They don't trust you. They're gonna try to go around you because they're, they're... You know, it's kind of like we say that you need an aquarium in a relationship, also with parenting. But an aquarium is like, if it's a fishbowl, it's too tight. It's like too constrained. If it's an aquarium, there's no rules, nobody knows what's going on, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel safe. An aquarium is just right. Can you give the other person the equivalent of an aquarium so they have room to

7. 20:37 – 25:07

   Compatibility vs. Chemistry: What Matters More?

   1. LGLori Gottlieb20:37

      swim, but there are also certain agreed upon rules in the relationship.

   2. JSJay Shetty20:41

      Got it. That makes sense. I've been, I've been dying to ask you this question, Lori. You've, you know, coached couples in relationships for decades now and, you know, been in therapy with couples, individuals, everything. I wanted to ask you, what is the difference between compatibility and chemistry, and which one's more important?

   3. LGLori Gottlieb21:00

      Let's do a poll. [laughs]

   4. JSJay Shetty21:02

      [laughs] Let's do it.

   5. LGLori Gottlieb21:04

      Let's do it.

   6. JSJay Shetty21:04

      That's the fun of getting to do it with all of you.

   7. LGLori Gottlieb21:05

      Who thinks, who thinks that compatibility is more important than chemistry?

   8. JSJay Shetty21:09

      Make some noise. [audience cheering]

   9. LGLori Gottlieb21:12

      Okay. And, and now the chemistry folks.

   10. JSJay Shetty21:16

       Make some noise. [audience cheering]

   11. LGLori Gottlieb21:18

       All right. All right.

   12. JSJay Shetty21:19

       Chemistry won that.

   13. LGLori Gottlieb21:20

       There's a, there's a good, there's a good amount for each. But here's the, the answer that I would give, and this is from seeing couples for all of these years, and I will say that I think that the most important form of chemistry is compatibility.

   14. JSJay Shetty21:36

       Wow.

   15. LGLori Gottlieb21:36

       So you're all right. [laughs] [audience applauding] And what I mean by that, so compatibility is do we vibe? Um, do we have the same ideas about how we like to have fun? Do we have the same ideas about our goals for ourselves and for our relationship? Do we bring out the best in each other? That's like red hot chemistry, right? But it's compatibility too. Some people would say that chemistry is, "I always feel on edge with this person, but wow, that person's so hot." Right?

   16. JSJay Shetty22:09

       [laughs]

   17. LGLori Gottlieb22:10

       Well, the other person can be really hot. That's part of your compatibility too. But you need the other things. If you bring out the best in each other, that is chemistry and compatibility all wrapped in one.

   18. JSJay Shetty22:22

       Yeah. I agree. I love that answer. Yeah. Go, give it up. [audience applauding] There's, um... You reminded me of this amazing study that I read that I loved, which was talking about how when you meet someone and you feel the spark-

   19. LGLori Gottlieb22:37

       Yeah

   20. JSJay Shetty22:37

       ... or the chemistry, really what it is is anxiety and excitement at the same time. So it's like excitement and stress. I'll give you an example. The excitement is, "Oh my gosh, they're hot," right? The stress is, "Do they think I'm hot?" Right?

   21. LGLori Gottlieb22:55

       [laughs]

   22. JSJay Shetty22:55

       The excitement is, "Oh my gosh, I got their number. I'm gonna text them." The stress is, "Are they gonna text me back?"

   23. LGLori Gottlieb23:02

       [laughs]

   24. JSJay Shetty23:02

       The excitement is, "I thought we had a great date." The stress is, "Do they think we had a great date?" And so that's what chemistry chemically actually is. It's stress and excitement. Now, what's really interesting, what this study said is that over time, when you get to know someone and you've spent time together, your stress goes down because now you're used to being around them. You know they like you. You know they like being around you. You know they're gonna text you back. And so because the stress goes down, excitement kind of starts to diminish, and you now think it's boredom when actually it's peace, right? So it's this really weird idea that compatibility is boring and chemistry is exciting, but really real great compatibility is a sense of peace, that we actually feel peaceful around each other. I now don't feel on edge around you, and I don't have to worry about whether you like me. And that's why it's so interesting how so many relationships go through this boredom era when you've got to actually check in with yourself and say, "Are we bored, or have I just lost the stress of them liking me and texting me back and messaging me?"

   25. LGLori Gottlieb24:14

       Right. But what you get instead is you get the dopamine of, "This person loves me," right? Like there's something-- All of the people who are dealing with what you said of, you know, "The date went well. Did they think the date went well? Did, you know, I got their number. Are they gonna call me back?" You know, all of that. That is-- So when people are going through that, you know what they say in therapy when they tell you what they're really feeling? They say, "All I want is to feel safe. I want peace. I want all of that," right? "I just wanna feel good, and I know that this person likes me, and I wanna have fun with them." That's what they want, and then when they have that, they say, "Oh no, I want the other thing."

   26. JSJay Shetty24:49

       [laughs]

   27. LGLori Gottlieb24:49

       "I want that other thing at the beginning." You weren't happy at the beginning. You were stressed out all the time. You were like, "Is the person gonna call? What's gonna happen? What did it mean that the person waited this many hours between the text and the time that I..." Right? Nobody, nobody enjoys that. They think they did in retrospect, but at the time when they're

8. 25:07 – 28:05

   Do Couples Need Individual Therapy Too?

   1. LGLori Gottlieb25:07

      reporting it, they're like, "I hate this."

   2. JSJay Shetty25:09

      Yeah. That's so true. That's so true. We, we, we forget very quickly-

   3. LGLori Gottlieb25:14

      Yes

   4. JSJay Shetty25:14

      How anxious and nervous and stressed we were at the start when we were dating someone-

   5. LGLori Gottlieb25:20

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty25:20

      ... and, and what that looked like. Before we go on to something really exciting and interesting I wanna do with the audience, I wanted to ask you one more question, which is this idea of should couples in therapy also be going to individual therapy? And, and how do you... You're happy I asked that question, yeah?

   7. LGLori Gottlieb25:36

      [laughs] Several people have asked.

   8. JSJay Shetty25:36

      How, how do you, how do you figure that out? Like, do you go individual therapy? Do you also do couples therapy? Do you only do couples therapy? Like w- wh- how do you figure that out?

   9. LGLori Gottlieb25:44

      I think that in a lot of ways couples therapy is individual therapy, and at least the way that I do it. And what I do is before people come into therapy, um, I say to each person separately, "If you are going to be the best version of yourself in this relationship regardless of what the other person does, what do you want to work on? What is one thing that you want to work on?" And I ask each of them that. They don't tell each other what it is. It just, that's their, that's their sort of individual goal in the therapy. And so no matter what happens in the therapy, the whole time they are working on, each of them is working on that one goal, and guess what happens? As each person is kind of doing their individual work, you don't change another person, but you influence another person. So now, oh, I am being more aware of this now, and look at the effect it's having on the other person. It's a virtuous cycle. So instead of, like, the vicious cycle of, well, we're doing this dance and what I do upsets this person and what they do upsets me, it's like I'm doing something different and they're responding well to it. Now they're responding well to it and they're responding well to it. It keeps going back and forth. And I think that's so interesting because, you know, often in a relationship we have this, this way of thinking like, "If I snap at you, it's because I was tired and my boss was really demanding today. If you snap at me, it's because you're disrespectful and you don't care about me."

   10. JSJay Shetty27:09

       [laughs]

   11. LGLori Gottlieb27:10

       Right?

   12. JSJay Shetty27:10

       That's real, yeah.

   13. LGLori Gottlieb27:11

       So, so what happens is we have context because we know in our own mind why we did what we did, and we think we know why [laughs] the other person did what they did, but we have zero context for it. We don't know. And because we feel hurt by it, we don't ask. So I think it's really important to consider that we don't know the whole story. And so when you're doing couples therapy, you're working with the individuals at the same time. You can't just work with a couple, and you can't just work with, like, here's our problem. It's like, here's my stuff. Here's my history. Here's, like, all the 12 people I'm bringing in the room. Here's you, your stuff, your history, the 12 people you're bringing in the room. Let's disinvite the people who don't need to be here. Let's talk about what is going on underneath the problem of who's doing the laundry.

   14. JSJay Shetty28:04

       Yeah. Well

9. 28:05 – 44:06

   A Live Couples Therapy Session

   1. JSJay Shetty28:05

      said. Well said, Lori.

   2. SPSpeaker28:06

      [clapping]

   3. JSJay Shetty28:07

      Amazing. All right. Well, you know, the joy of doing this live with all of you, usually we're in a studio, the joy of doing this live... First of all, I just wanna say how much this means to me because I absolutely love this. I wish we could do every podcast like this. Like, it's so fun to see what resonates with you and what connects with you and what you relate to. But I just wanna get a show of hands, how many couples do we have in the house tonight? Raise your hand if you're with your partner tonight. Okay, amazing. Quite a few. I love that. Now look, every, every couple, as I was sharing with me and Radhi too, every couple goes through disagreements and things like that.

   4. LGLori Gottlieb28:40

      Yes.

   5. JSJay Shetty28:41

      I wanna give someone the opportunity to have and do an exercise with Lori on stage right now. So if you have any couples that would love to join us on stage, raise your hands. I'm gonna come out and talk to you. Raise your hands.

   6. LGLori Gottlieb28:54

      Hello. This is gonna be fun.

   7. SPSpeaker28:58

      [clapping]

   8. LGLori Gottlieb28:59

      Hi.

   9. SPSpeaker28:59

      Hi, Jay.

   10. LGLori Gottlieb29:00

       Hi. It's gonna be super fun. Mm. [laughs]

   11. JSJay Shetty29:05

       All right.

   12. SPSpeaker29:08

       Aw. [laughs] Aw.

   13. LGLori Gottlieb29:14

       [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker29:19

       Scare the bus.

   15. LGLori Gottlieb29:20

       Okay. Well, first of all, thank you, guys. You guys are so brave.

   16. JSJay Shetty29:24

       I'm not, I'm not part of the relationship. I'm just sitting here.

   17. LGLori Gottlieb29:26

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker29:26

       [laughs]

   19. LGLori Gottlieb29:26

       We might, we might bring, we might bring Jay in for some mediation. So okay, tell us your names.

   20. SPSpeaker29:32

       I'm Stephanie.

   21. LGLori Gottlieb29:33

       Stephanie.

   22. SPSpeaker29:34

       Nico.

   23. LGLori Gottlieb29:35

       Nico. Okay. So how are you guys at acting? [laughs]

   24. SPSpeaker29:42

       Not very good. [laughs]

   25. LGLori Gottlieb29:43

       Okay. Well, we're gonna do our best. He's, he's terrified. [laughs]

   26. SPSpeaker29:46

       No, no. I, like-

   27. LGLori Gottlieb29:48

       Okay

   28. SPSpeaker29:48

       ... behind closed doors, I think that I'm pretty good at it.

   29. SPSpeaker29:50

       [laughs]

   30. LGLori Gottlieb29:53

       [laughs] All right. So I'm casting a play, and you're playing Nico.
10. 44:06 – 47:08

    Communicate Clearly Not Through Assumptions

    1. SPSpeaker44:06

       [laughs]

    2. LGLori Gottlieb44:06

       How do you guys think they did?

    3. JSJay Shetty44:07

       Nico and Stephanie, everyone. [clapping] Very, very, very brave to come and do that in front of two thousand five hundred people.

    4. LGLori Gottlieb44:16

       Yes.

    5. JSJay Shetty44:16

       Uh-

    6. SPSpeaker44:17

       [clapping]

    7. JSJay Shetty44:18

       It takes a lot. And as you can see, I love what Lori was doing because it really shows us, like, we don't get to sit inside of these exercises. We only get to sit inside of our own. And when you're inside someone else's therapy exercise, you start to recognize just how we don't have the emotional vocabulary, we don't have the communication skills. And it's not our fault, it's because no one's ever taught us them. And so a lot of us are learning, and so having that bit of grace when we're with our partners to recognize that we can't expect people to have these emotional skills. We often expect people, Lori, to just get us.

    8. LGLori Gottlieb45:00

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty45:00

       Right? We expect our partners to just get us. Like, "It's common sense. You should get it."

    10. LGLori Gottlieb45:05

        You know-

    11. JSJay Shetty45:05

        And we don't.

    12. LGLori Gottlieb45:06

        Well, it, it's so interesting because we, we believe that that's, that's the true test of love. Like, "Do you just get me?" And it's, it's interesting because you think when we're babies, we don't have words, and the only way that we can communicate is by crying, and the parents are dancing around like, "Oh my gosh. Is, is the... Are you hungry? Are you cold? Are you hot? Are you tired? Do you need a diaper change," right? We don't know what it means, but then we grow up, and we expect our partner to, like, solve the problem in the same way, except now we do have words, and we can use those words. But our first loving experience was all about, how much was my parent or caregiver, whoever, able to guess, like we want our partners to do, what I needed in that moment?

    13. JSJay Shetty45:48

        Wow. Wow.

    14. SPSpeaker45:50

        [clapping]

    15. JSJay Shetty45:50

        Wow.

    16. LGLori Gottlieb45:51

        And, and now-

    17. JSJay Shetty45:52

        I really get it.

    18. LGLori Gottlieb45:52

        And now what we have instead is, so then we have words and we can say, "Hey, I'm hot, I'm cold, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I'm tired," right? And we learn how to do that. Somehow with our partners, we think, "I don't need to tell them that. They should just know." Because it's our early experience of loving. It's our earliest, is of being loved. And so now what we have instead is we need to learn the operating instructions of our partner. So everybody comes with, you know, their history, the things that work well with them, don't push this button, do push this button more, right? [laughs] With our partners. We all know that about our partners. But then we think, "Well, they should just guess." Why don't you just tell them so you can get what you want?

    19. JSJay Shetty46:35

        [laughs]

    20. LGLori Gottlieb46:36

        Right? Why do we make it so hard on our partner? Just tell them, "These are my operating instructions. What are yours?"

    21. SPSpeaker46:44

        [clapping]

    22. JSJay Shetty46:46

        I wanna give a big shout-out to Nico and Stephanie for having the courage to do that. And I wanna take it out to all of you. I wanna take some of your questions. Me and Lori are both here.

    23. LGLori Gottlieb46:55

        Yep.

    24. JSJay Shetty46:55

        Would love to answer your questions. Paige, where are you, Paige? There you are. Paige from my team.

    25. LGLori Gottlieb47:00

        [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty47:00

        Give Paige a round of applause, everyone, please.

    27. SPSpeaker47:02

        [clapping]

    28. JSJay Shetty47:02

        Uh, Paige from my team is gonna come around and, uh, hand you the mic if you have a question. So

11. 47:08 – 51:28

    Healthy Ways to Approach Conflict

    1. JSJay Shetty47:08

       raise your hand if you have a question, and Paige will come and find you.

    2. SPSpeaker47:12

       Hi.

    3. JSJay Shetty47:12

       Hello.

    4. LGLori Gottlieb47:13

       Hi.

    5. JSJay Shetty47:13

       What's your name?

    6. SPSpeaker47:14

       I'm Priya.

    7. JSJay Shetty47:15

       Priya, nice to meet you. What's your question?

    8. SPSpeaker47:17

       My question is more of a scenario. Um, if you were going somewhere with your partner, and let's say you had a disagreement, and there was something that really bothered you, what's the best way to handle that situation so that you're happy and your partner's happy? And do you speak when you're upset, or do you wait? And how should you communicate that? What's the best way to communicate that?

    9. LGLori Gottlieb47:43

       I feel like when we-- something happens, we feel like we have to resolve this right now, and if we don't resolve it right now, it's gonna live with us all night, and it's gonna ruin our time. But you're so worked up about it that you haven't thought about it, you haven't processed it, you aren't giving the other person grace at this moment. So that is not the time to try to resolve it. What you need in that moment is to say to each other, "Hey, we really care about each other. We're having this disagreement. We know we are confident." And you have to have confidence that we know how to resolve things. We're gonna resolve this later. Let's go have a good time. And people think, "I can't do that because I'm gonna be thinking about it the whole time." Well, that's your choice, but I wanna say it's a choice. It is a very volitional choice. People say, "I can't help what I think about." Yes, you can. [laughs] So a lot of times in relationships, you have lots of choices that you can make. You choose not to make them.

    10. JSJay Shetty48:48

        Yeah. Well said. And, and Priya, I would say that-

    11. SPSpeaker48:52

        [clapping]

    12. JSJay Shetty48:52

        You know, for me, there, there's two things that come to mind. One thing is what Lori's saying, this idea that sometimes I'll get some friends call me in a panic, like, "Jay, I've got an issue." And u- and maybe I'm on stage when I'm getting it, and I'll be like, "Call me back in three days." And, and the reason why I say that sometimes is because unless it's life or death, usually in three days when I message them and go, "Hey, what about that issue?" They're like, "Nah, it's all right now."

    13. LGLori Gottlieb49:14

        Yep.

    14. JSJay Shetty49:14

        Like, you know, it, it was just this panic moment. And so I think there is something to be said for that. For me and Radhi, I talk a lot about, in my book, 8 Rules of Love, that I wrote, I talk a lot about fight styles. And I realized, it took me a while to realize that me and Radhi had different fight styles. So my fight style is the venter, the talker, the fixer. Like, I wanna fix it now. So if I'm on that date, I wanna fix it right nowAnd Radhi is, is the hider. She wants to think about it, reflect, introspect, and have time. So I want to talk about it right now, she wants to talk about it in three days. And what we had to realize was, like Lori said, have the confidence to say, "Okay, we're gonna meet in the middle. We'll talk about it tomorrow. Right? We're gonna go out and have that great time, we're gonna meet in the middle. I wanna talk about it now, you need three days to process. In one and a half days we'll take a look at it, because right now it's not worth our time. You're not even ready, and actually even though I wanna fix it now, I actually don't know enough to do that."

    15. LGLori Gottlieb50:10

        Mm.

    16. JSJay Shetty50:11

        And so recognizing the different ways in which you approach conflict. Because what I used to think before is, "Well, if you want to talk about it in three days, that means you don't care as much as I do," which isn't true. She's actually saying, "Well, the fact you want to talk about it now means you don't care as much as I do, because I want time to think about it." So you've got to build up that understanding of the way you both respond to conflict, and taking Lori's advice, recognize that now's not the time or the place, and we're probably gonna be in a better mindset if we let this go and deal with it at a proper time and place. So I love Lori's advice.

    17. LGLori Gottlieb50:44

        But-- Right. And also, you have to realize that the connection is not severed. Just because you have a disagreement doesn't mean that the connection has been damaged in any way. People are gonna have disagreements all the time, and it's kind of like, uh, when you start a new exercise and you start building up muscle, you need to build up the muscle of we know how to resolve differences between us. And so the more you do it, so the first time it might be a little shaky, the second time it still might be a little shaky, but every time you learn something new about how we resolve differences together. And then when you resolve differences all the time, it's like, "Oh yeah, we had a difference. We're gonna still have a good night because our connection is strong. We're confident we can resolve it later."

    18. JSJay Shetty51:24

        Thanks, Priya. I hope that helps. Thank you so much for your question. [audience clapping]

12. 51:28 – 57:46

    Understanding the Many Forms of Love

    1. JSJay Shetty51:32

       Hey, man, what's your name?

    2. SPSpeaker51:33

       Hi, Jay. I'm Snell.

    3. JSJay Shetty51:34

       Snell, nice to meet you.

    4. SPSpeaker51:35

       My w- my wife's not here today, but I came with my sister. But, um-

    5. LGLori Gottlieb51:39

       Then you can tell us everything.

    6. SPSpeaker51:41

       Exactly.

    7. LGLori Gottlieb51:41

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker51:42

       She, she's not here, so it's, uh, pretty good. No, but my question is, like, sometimes, you know, we d- we don't communicate. Like, we're just sitting there, and I'll-- I'm gonna give a scenario. But, you know, sometimes I'm really trying hard to understand, you know, but there's no communication. Um, and the biggest, uh, thing that I struggle with is, you know, the love language is gifting, right? Like, what, you know, what to get her on her birthday, or what to get her for, you know, a certain event. And then you spend so much time, and then you get her something, and you see the reaction on the face, and it's not always perfect. So what, what [laughs] you know... But sometimes I, I hit it, right? It's like, you know, o- it-- sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't. But what do you do to kind of really understand what is it that that other person wants, right? And, um, yeah, that's my question.

    9. JSJay Shetty52:39

       Thank you, Snell.

    10. SPSpeaker52:39

        I know my wife's probably gonna watch this, uh, video my sister took, but, uh-

    11. JSJay Shetty52:44

        [laughs]

    12. LGLori Gottlieb52:45

        [laughs]

    13. SPSpeaker52:45

        Yeah.

    14. JSJay Shetty52:45

        Thanks for that question. Lori?

    15. LGLori Gottlieb52:47

        So this goes back to the mind reading that we were talking about, that people think somehow, you know, if you loved me that much, you would know what gift I want, and you would not get it wrong. But I think there's something so beautiful to kind of turn it around and kind of turn it on its side, is to say, "I love you so much that it hurts me to disappoint you. And so if you could give me a list of, like, five things, and I will surprise you with the one-- with one of them. But at least now I have some idea of you want all of these things. You will be happy with all of them, and I can show my love by getting you exactly what you want. You won't know which one it is, so it's still kind of a surprise." But I think that we, we have to understand that there's different ways to love people, and one way to love someone is to say, "Making you happy is my way of loving you. So can you help me with that?"

    16. JSJay Shetty53:45

        Yeah. I, I, I completely agree. I think that... So, so when me and Radhi first started dating, my love language was gifts, as in I like receiving gifts.

    17. LGLori Gottlieb53:53

        [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty53:54

        But I like surprises, and this all goes back to childhood. My mom, we didn't have a lot growing up, but my mom would surprise me with the one gift I always wanted on my birthday, right? And it could be the smallest thing, but I remember it so well. So when I first started dating Radhi, and I hadn't really thought that through and I wasn't aware of that, I wanted her to surprise me with a gift. So she kind of knew that I wanted a tablet, right? And my birthday came around, this tablet-sized box was there, it was wrapped up in gift wrapping, whatever. I open it up, I take it out, it's a tablet box. It's an Asus. What the hell is an Asus?

    19. LGLori Gottlieb54:34

        [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty54:34

        Right? And I'm mortified. I'm like, I'm like, "What's an Asus?" Like, I'm trying to read it. I'm like, "Am I even reading it right? Is it Sousa? Is it Asus?"

    21. LGLori Gottlieb54:43

        [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty54:43

        "Is it like..." And I'm like, "Tablets are iPads, right? Like, there's an iPad or there's nothing. [laughs] Like, there's nothing else."

    23. LGLori Gottlieb54:50

        [laughs]

    24. JSJay Shetty54:51

        And so I am mortified that she got me an Asus. And I remember talking to her about this, and then she was like, she was like, "Yeah, but I spoke to my dad and my brother-in-law, and, you know, they were telling me Asus is the best deal and the spec is really good." And I'm like, "My mom doesn't care about what the best deal is. [laughs] I just want the best tablet." And, and so I've been there. I know what that feels like. And, and gifting in our relationship was a long time conversation, and it really did take that, where it got to a point where I was like, "I'm setting up the person I love for failure. I'm literally setting them up for failure by wanting them to guess, wanting them to get it right, wanting them to know the perfect thing. I'm setting them up for failure." And guess what? No one wants to feel like a failure in a relationship. And so when you can openly say thatTo someone, to Jellec and saying, "Hey, look, like what Lori was saying, like, I don't wanna feel like a failure. Like, I love you. I want you to have the best birthday ever, but I need you to help me understand what that looks like for you and what that means." And yes, I hope that one day I will be able to understand because we've talked about it so much. But without the communication and without that, I just won't know, right? I just won't know. And so it's, it's hard in your situation because you're on the receiving end, you're the Radhi in the relationship.

    25. LGLori Gottlieb56:10

        [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty56:10

        Uh, but, but that's where we got to in the end, and, and I realized-- and obviously over time, I realized how wrong I was for my approach and my perspective on it, and it made me realize how much our childhood, as Lori was saying earlier, has programmed us to believe what a perfect birthday is. Now I've changed my views on what a perfect birthday is because of that negative experience, because of making the person I've love feel that way. And so I hope that stays with you to take Lori's advice, to really communicate that, to make that point that, "Hey, I want you to have the best birthday. I don't wanna let you down. I, I don't wanna feel like a failure. I want you to have something amazing, but I need your help because I can't read minds. I wish I could, but I can't, and no one else can. By the way, not even Radhi can." And, uh, you know-

    27. LGLori Gottlieb56:57

        [laughs]

    28. JSJay Shetty56:57

        ... Jay said that, you know, he's kinda like you, so hopefully that helps too.

    29. LGLori Gottlieb57:01

        [clapping] And I, I think that that childhood stuff is so important because we think, you know, if you were someone who got everything, your mom did it perfectly, then you think, "Well, that's what, that's what feeling special is like. So if she doesn't do that, then she doesn't think I'm special." Or if you didn't get the gifts that you wanted 'cause you think, "My parents didn't really know me," like, I was an artist, and they got me like a baseball bat, you know? It's like, "What?" [laughs] Like, "Do you even know me?"

    30. JSJay Shetty57:24

        [laughs]
13. 57:46 – 1:01:44

    Are Both of Your Needs Being Met?

    1. JSJay Shetty57:46

       like you did, like they didn't read your mind either, like-

    2. LGLori Gottlieb57:48

       Right

    3. JSJay Shetty57:48

       ... you would find out in a-

    4. LGLori Gottlieb57:49

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty57:49

       ... in a multitude of ways. All right, next question.

    6. SPSpeaker57:52

       I actually had to write mine down because I thought I was gonna get nervous. [laughs] Okay, so my question is, am I being selfish or showing narcissistic traits for needing more time and attention in a relationship? Or is it a valid-- or is it valid to simply express what I needed to feel connected and valued?

    7. LGLori Gottlieb58:17

       So if you were to ask Instagram this question- [laughs] You guys all know what the answer on Instagram is, right? "No, you're not a narcissist. You should have all the time and attention that you need," right? That's the Instagram answer. I have a slightly more nuanced answer, and I think that we have to really understand that being in a relationship is relational, that the person that you're with has needs too. And so when you-- when they-- when for them it feels too demanding, the question is, is-- are they getting their needs met too? Because usually when they think the other person's too demanding, it means that there's not enough room for both of you in the relationship. So that's really your guide. Like do both of you feel like you're getting your needs met? Do both of you feel like there's enough room there? So it's not just a cut and dry, you know, well, they should, of course, all of my needs should be met for how much time I wanna spend with them or, right? It's a conversation, and it evolves.

    8. JSJay Shetty59:22

       I think it comes down to a few things. The first thing I'd say is, are you clear about what that means?

    9. LGLori Gottlieb59:31

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JSJay Shetty59:32

        Like for example, if it's unclear, like, "I wish that person would message me all day, call me twice a day, be there for me every evening," you know, it's like that can be a lot, and it may not be clear. Whereas if it's clear, like, "Hey, I just wanna spend two hours with you on a Saturday afternoon and have it just be us," right? It's really clear. It's really specific. It's really organized. Or is it like, "Hey, I just need you all the time." And so much of this comes down to our attachment styles and, and how the other person makes us feel as well. I think the challenge we have in this, in, in your question is we don't know enough about the other person in the relationship. And often I've seen it that if the other person's prioritizing a bunch of other stuff, and you don't feel prioritized, and you're not a part of the priorities and the schedule, then that's unfair, right? If you've had a conversation, but that's why it comes down to having a conversation, setting expectations extremely clearly, being really specific, and then looking at the reality of their lifestyle. Like I meet a lot of people who say to me, "I really want my partner to be ambitious, but I want them to be really available."

    11. LGLori Gottlieb1:00:40

        [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:00:40

        And I'm like, "Those two things just don't go together." Like the reality is that person doesn't exist. It's really, really hard for someone to be super ambitious and super available because that comes with certain give and take. I'm not saying it's not possible to have someone who's slightly ambitious and available. I'm saying that having both in their most extreme form is unrealistic. And so I think it's really looking at the complete person rather than this one area of them because they may be really great at a bunch of other stuff, and they need to improve in this area, or they're not great at any of it, and they're not good at this area. And then you've got to really look for what you deserve and not settle for less.

    13. LGLori Gottlieb1:01:19

        And I wanna say one thing. You used the word narcissist. It is not narcissistic to have needs.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:01:24

        Yeah.

    15. LGLori Gottlieb1:01:24

        So a narcissist is someone who is all about themselves, but that doesn't mean because you have needs and you wanna spend time with your partner, even if those needs are maybe more than that partner wants or can deal with, you're not a narcissist.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:01:38

        Agreed.

    17. LGLori Gottlieb1:01:38

        You're human. That's human. We want to connect. W- we have needs.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:01:42

        Absolutely not a narcissist,

14. 1:01:44 – 1:05:27

    Learning to Embrace and Communicate Differences

    1. JSJay Shetty1:01:44

       for sure.It's good we're clarifying that. Uh, we'll take one last question.

    2. LGLori Gottlieb1:01:50

       I really love you, Jay. You're a recent [laughs]

    3. JSJay Shetty1:01:53

       Love you too, Caitlin. Thank you.

    4. SPSpeaker1:01:54

       I'm learning about you. I really appreciate you. Um, it-- we're talking a lot about couples and relationships, and everything that you've talked about today, um, how does that apply to, uh, couples that are experienced neurodivergence? Because when you're saying, you know, in the role play earlier, I was thinking, "Yeah, like an hour would be great." I'm like, but if you're a neurodivergent, like myself, uh, it is really hard to go from one task to another, to another, to another, to another, like a switch ta- you know, task switching and executive functioning. And so you're talking a lot about, uh, it just feels like-

    5. LGLori Gottlieb1:02:35

       Caitlin, in this scenario, you're the neurodivergent person or your partner is?

    6. SPSpeaker1:02:38

       My question is, how do you-- everything that you've-- all the, uh, advice that you've given for couples, how would that be different or the same for a couple that has someone with n- with one person that's neurodivergent or both? Because they're-- my husband is also neurodivergent. So it's a, it's a learning curve, and it's wonderful. Uh, but it, uh, everything that you're talking about applies differently.

    7. LGLori Gottlieb1:03:06

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPSpeaker1:03:06

       And so... Oh, hello. Um, so I'm just understand- trying to understand what that looks like.

    9. LGLori Gottlieb1:03:14

       You know, I think that we are all-- neurodivergence is on a spectrum, and we are all, whether we have a diagnosis or we don't have a diagnosis, um, you know, we're all different from each other. And whether you have a diagnosis that makes it a little more challenging, regardless, we still have to learn who the other person is, what are some of their strengths, what are some of the challenges, what are some of our strengths, what are some of our challenges, and how do we communicate about them. And we've had, you know-- I see so many couples where, you know, someone will say, "Well, my partner's on the spectrum," or, "My partner deals with this or that." And w- it's the same, you know, there's like specifics to a, a specific diagnosis, but at the same time, the same kind of human issues around how do we communicate about our differences? What do we do with these challenges that maybe are a little bit more challenging because of this person's neurodivergence? But I, I don't, I don't-- I think when people kind of try to label and get kind of stuck in, "Because of this, this is why I'm acting this way," or, "This is why my partner acts this way," we lose the person behind the diagnosis, and we never ever, ever wanna do that. You will lose so much about the person if you see everything through the lens of, of their neurodivergence. [audience clapping]

    10. JSJay Shetty1:04:34

        Unfortunately, that's all we have time for today for the questions. Uh, I wanna give it up for Lori Gottlieb, everyone.

    11. LGLori Gottlieb1:04:42

        Thank you. [audience clapping]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:04:42

        Please make some noise. [audience clapping] So, so grateful. Thank you, Lori.

    13. LGLori Gottlieb1:04:49

        This is so great.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:04:50

        Joining me. You're amazing.

    15. LGLori Gottlieb1:04:51

        Thank you.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:04:52

        Give it up for Lori, everyone. [audience cheering]

    17. LGLori Gottlieb1:04:53

        Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:04:55

        Hey, everyone. If you loved that conversation, go and check out my episode with the world's leading therapist, Lori Gottlieb, where she answers the biggest questions that people ask in therapy when it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating. If you're trying to figure out that space right now, you won't wanna miss this conversation.

    19. LGLori Gottlieb1:05:17

        If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard to argue. It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as you're having the conversation. It's so lovely

Episode duration: 1:05:27