#1 Memory Expert: How to Think Clearly When You’re Put on the Spot

1. 0:00 – 0:34

   AI convenience vs. cognitive surrender: why critical thinking is at stake

   1. JKJim Kwik0:00

      I don't want humans to become more artificial because the danger is not cognitive offloading. It's the trend towards cognitive surrender. If it's thinking for us, then what happens to a society that can't critically think?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:11

      Is the reliance on AI making our brain weaker or stronger?

   3. JKJim Kwik0:15

      Your brain grows through stressors, but what happens when AI removes all the friction? There was a recent MIT study, and the students had to write communication essays. Group A used ChatGPT, Group B used Google, and Group C neither. Which one had the most cognitive engagement? It was the one that did the work themselves. What's more interesting for me was-

2. 0:34 – 1:08

   The hidden limiter: harsh self-talk, labels, and the ‘trained vs. untrained’ memory mindset

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:34

      Is there a reason that our inner self-talk is usually harsher?

   2. JKJim Kwik0:39

      I get emotional thinking about this.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:40

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JKJim Kwik0:40

      Um, I had some severe learning challenges after my traumatic brain injury at five. I was called broken by a teacher in front of the whole class when I was nine. I was called the boy with the broken brain. That label became my limit. With the brain injury, it was one limitation. Far greater limitation was the conversation I was having inside my own head. Your brain is this incredible supercomputer, and your self-talk is a programmable run. People come to me and they say, "I have a horrible memory. I'm just too old." And I always say the same thing. I always say, "Stop. There's no such thing as a good or bad memory. There's a trained memory and an untrained memory."

3. 1:08 – 2:20

   Stopping the “blank mind” under pressure: training retrieval like an athlete

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:08

      How do we stop our minds from going blank? What causes our brain to underperform? What is the number one thing that somebody can do that's going to start improving their brain?

   2. JKJim Kwik1:19

      Yeah, absolutely. I've never talked about this, but this is what I do personally.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:24

      How do we stop our brains from forgetting what we want to say in the moment?

   4. JKJim Kwik1:29

      Um, well, I, I feel like sometimes we don't rise to the level of our aspirations or expectations. We fall to the level of our training.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:35

      Hmm.

   6. JKJim Kwik1:35

      You know, and it's especially more difficult when you're under pressure.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher1:39

      Right.

   8. JKJim Kwik1:39

      It's like if you have a fire extinguisher in your home, and there's a, an emergency and a f- you know, fire. It's one thing to know where it is. It's another in the moment to think about what to do-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher1:49

      Yeah. [laughs]

   10. JKJim Kwik1:50

       ... when you're under literally in some kind of a bad storm, and there's family, everything's going on.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher1:55

       Right.

   12. JKJim Kwik1:55

       And sometimes maybe people feel like that in the conversation. Maybe they, they've read, uh, your book or listened to podcasts, and they know what to do, but are they able to kind of retrieve it-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher2:06

       Right

   14. JKJim Kwik2:06

       ... when they need it the most? Or maybe it's on their, it's at their tip of their tongue.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher2:10

       Right.

   16. JKJim Kwik2:10

       And they can't get it out.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher2:11

       Yeah.

   18. JKJim Kwik2:12

       Um, so I would say that, um, a lot of it is this context learning where things get mapped over, and it's, it's all practice, right? It's all rehearsal.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher2:20

       Yeah.

4. 2:20 – 5:51

   The power of the pause: building automatic calm with triggers and visualization

   1. JKJim Kwik2:20

      So for example, um, let's say, uh, the power of the pause.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher2:26

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JKJim Kwik2:26

      We, we had you on our podcast.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher2:28

      Right, yeah.

   5. JKJim Kwik2:28

      So you were talking about the power of a pause, so you're not reacting. Um, you're, you're, you're, you're thoughtfully responding to somebody, right?

   6. JFJefferson Fisher2:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JKJim Kwik2:36

      Um, let maybe that people know that 'cause they read it, and they heard it, and they saw the video. Um, but in the moment-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher2:44

      It's gone

   9. JKJim Kwik2:44

      ... when they're in a spirited debate, that doesn't even register-

   10. JFJefferson Fisher2:47

       Right

   11. JKJim Kwik2:47

       ... you know, in the moment. So I would say the practice is what, what happens because all athletes do mental rehearsal, right?

   12. JFJefferson Fisher2:54

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JKJim Kwik2:54

       Um, they, uh, pilots have a checklist that they go through.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher2:57

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JKJim Kwik2:58

       You know, uh, musicians still, you know, practice their scales-

   16. JFJefferson Fisher3:02

       Yeah

   17. JKJim Kwik3:02

       ... because they want it to come. So not because, I mean, they're successful, but they still practice that because they want it to come without thinking about it.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher3:10

       Hmm.

   19. JKJim Kwik3:10

       So it's automatic. Like it's an almost an unconscious habit. So I would say as, for example, the power of the pause, I would practice pausing. Like, so it's all about triggers, right? You know, something reminds you of something else.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher3:21

       Yeah.

   21. JKJim Kwik3:21

       So even something silly, a mental exercise. Every time you reach for a door handle, just pause, right? Every single time your phone rings, train yourself to pause. So-

   22. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

       Yeah

   23. JKJim Kwik3:31

       ... how you do that, you, when you do those things repeatedly, you get better at it. Just like with a meditation. I don't meditate to become enlightened. I meditate because when I'm quiet and my thoughts go somewhere else I don't want it to go, I can pull it back to a mantra. I can pull it back to my breath.

   24. JFJefferson Fisher3:48

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JKJim Kwik3:48

       And I built a mechanism, and I've trained myself. So when I'm stressed or somewhere else, my mind gets distracted when I'm on Zoom or I'm with my kids-

   26. JFJefferson Fisher3:54

       Yeah

   27. JKJim Kwik3:55

       ... I have a mechanism and then train, rehearse, you know, to bring, to be able to do that activity and get that result. Um, so for example, you train it. That's one thing. Or even something silly, like when I train people, I'm, I'm one of those guys who get in front of an whole audience and memorize a hundred people's names and, and, uh, it wasn't always that way 'cause I had a traumatic brain injury-

   28. JFJefferson Fisher4:13

       Hmm

   29. JKJim Kwik4:13

       ... and I had very severe learning difficulties, very poor memory. Um, but I would say that, uh, you could use your imagination. Like imagine y- you're with somebody, and they start getting heated up. This is kind of silly, but this'll work, I promise you.

   30. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

       [laughs]
5. 5:51 – 7:19

   Memory, focus, and learning: the missing ‘how’ in education

   1. JKJim Kwik5:51

      I, I do believe it maps over-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher5:53

      Yeah

   3. JKJim Kwik5:53

      ... how you, how you do a lot of- how you do something, um, is how you do a lot of things.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher5:58

      Right.

   5. JKJim Kwik5:58

      You know, even, even the meditation example I use, it helps me to focus, but it maps over into other areas when I'm reading. I don't... You never read, read, read a page out a book and forgot what you just read 'cause your focus is not there.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher6:10

      Right.

   7. JKJim Kwik6:10

      Um, but I think focus is a muscle. You know, I also feel like, um, memory is a muscle, too.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher6:15

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JKJim Kwik6:15

      There's just no such thing as a good or bad memory. It's been my experience after 35 years that there's a trained memory and there's an untrained memory.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher6:22

       A trained and an untrained memory.

   11. JKJim Kwik6:24

       Absolutely, because it's not taught in school, right? Tea- school teaches you what to learn, what to remember, what to think.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher6:30

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JKJim Kwik6:30

       But there are not a lot of classes on how to learn or how to remember. I didn't take that course or-

   14. JFJefferson Fisher6:35

       [laughs] Yeah

   15. JKJim Kwik6:35

       ... or how, or how to think.

   16. JFJefferson Fisher6:36

       How to study.

   17. JKJim Kwik6:37

       Right, how to study.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher6:37

       Yeah.

   19. JKJim Kwik6:38

       Like-

   20. JFJefferson Fisher6:38

       How to listen to the teacher.

   21. JKJim Kwik6:38

       Exactly.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher6:39

       Yeah, how to actually do school.

   23. JKJim Kwik6:41

       Yeah, like going to-

   24. JFJefferson Fisher6:41

       Yeah

   25. JKJim Kwik6:41

       ... a student or even, you know, an adult and saying, "Focus," or, "Remember this," is like going to someone saying, "Play the didgeridoo or the u-

   26. JFJefferson Fisher6:50

       [laughs]

   27. JKJim Kwik6:50

       ... or the ukulele," who's never taken any kind of class-

   28. JFJefferson Fisher6:52

       Right

   29. JKJim Kwik6:52

       ... on how to do that. And, uh, you know, and that, that, that's the challenge is, uh, is more of a, that 20th century education where you're kind of taught the what, math, history, science, Spanish, but not the how.

   30. JFJefferson Fisher7:03

       Right.
6. 7:19 – 16:55

   Why you lose your train of thought: stress, rehearsed failure, and distraction

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:19

      For the person listening and they say, "Okay, I resonate with Jim on, yeah, when, when I go into that conversation, I have everything prepared in my mind, and then I'm in that moment and I know I read it in a book somewhere-

   2. JKJim Kwik7:32

      Yeah

   3. JFJefferson Fisher7:32

      ... I saw it on something, and all of a sudden it's just [snaps fingers] gone."

   4. JKJim Kwik7:35

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher7:36

      I first wanna know why does that happen?

   6. JKJim Kwik7:38

      Yeah.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher7:39

      Why, why do we lose our train of thought?

   8. JKJim Kwik7:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher7:42

      And, and is there a reason why some people lose their train of thought easier than others?

   10. JKJim Kwik7:46

       Yeah, ab- absolutely. Uh, well, the goal is to be more mentally fit. Just like, uh, people are physically fit, they exercise, and they eat right, and they sleep, right? And they, they could get for better performance-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher7:57

       Mm-hmm

   12. JKJim Kwik7:57

       ... at work or at play. Um, we don't exercise our, our minds the same way, or at least as, as, as structured, um, because we don't see it. Like in, in photos on social media, I'm always pointing to my brain, or I always, always have a brain on my shirt-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher8:10

       Yeah

   14. JKJim Kwik8:10

       ... to remind people. Uh, 'cause what you see, you take care of. It's in your awareness. You see your clothes, your car, your hair, you tend to take better care of it.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher8:18

       Yeah.

   16. JKJim Kwik8:18

       But we don't see the thing that takes care of us, right?

   17. JFJefferson Fisher8:20

       Right.

   18. JKJim Kwik8:21

       Um, so I, they say, number one, a good habit is to love your brain. Just fall in love with your brain. Start loving your brain. Um, but the other thing is I feel like it's lost because all learning and performance is state-dependent, meaning that especially under stress, like one of the challenges a lot of people come to us, uh, for, uh, for coaching, I help a lot of TED speakers memorize their speech 'cause a lot of it has to be verbatim.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher8:44

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JKJim Kwik8:45

       Um, uh, actors memorize, you know, 30 pages of scripts on can set.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher8:49

       Right.

   22. JKJim Kwik8:50

       Uh, a lot of people can remember things, but under p- the challenge is is how, why people forget. Part of the reason is, uh, is, is, is just, uh, I would say pressure. Like, it would be stress.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher9:02

       Yes.

   24. JKJim Kwik9:02

       Right? 'Cause chronic stress will put you in that middle brain, like it, uh, your amygdala's firing off.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher9:08

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JKJim Kwik9:08

       And, uh, and if you're in fight or flight, you're not in flow, right?

   27. JFJefferson Fisher9:13

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JKJim Kwik9:13

       You're not accessing your executive functioning. Like when you're in fight or flight, it's like you're hold, held hostage, and you're just in survival mode, and it hold, and it keeps you away and holds you hostage from executive functioning, good decision-making-

   29. JFJefferson Fisher9:24

       Mm-hmm

   30. JKJim Kwik9:24

       ... good problem-solving, uh, being present, being able to focus, uh, being able to even be compassionate also as well.
7. 16:55 – 22:13

   Rewriting your inner dialogue: negativity bias, self-compassion, and ‘less critic, more coach’

   1. JKJim Kwik16:55

      And- and- and also the other part of it is our identity, 'cause some people have this self-talk. Like, let's say they wanna be present, but they're saying to themselves, "Oh, I'm gonna forget this." Right? Or, "I'm, I'm..." Like at events that I speak at, people come to me always in the, in- in the hallway and say, "I'm so glad you're here. I have a horrible memory. I'm just too old. I'm not that smart." And I always say the same thing. I always say, "Stop. If you fight for limitations, you get to keep them."

   2. JFJefferson Fisher17:19

      Mm.

   3. JKJim Kwik17:19

      Right? They're yours.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher17:20

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JKJim Kwik17:21

      Your brain is this incredible supercomputer, and your self-talk is a program it will run. So if you tell yourself, "I'm not good at remembering people's names," you won't remember the name of the next person you meet, 'cause you program your compu- your computer not to, right?

   6. JFJefferson Fisher17:33

      Yeah. You ran, you run, uh, you're running that program in your brain.

   7. JKJim Kwik17:36

      Yeah.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher17:36

      Yeah.

   9. JKJim Kwik17:36

      And I think this is, like, the mo- one of the most important conversations you have, is the conversation you have with yourself. Before, because before talking to your s- your spouse, or your kids, or your coworkers, or your clients, like we're, we've been talking to ourselves all, all day.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher17:49

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JKJim Kwik17:49

       You know? And the challenge is, it's hard to create a positive life with a, with a negative mind. Um, you know that Henry Ford quote, "If you, if you believe you can or can't, either way you're, you're right."

   12. JFJefferson Fisher17:59

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. JKJim Kwik18:00

       I honestly believe if people truly understood how powerful their mind is, they wouldn't say something or think something they didn't wanna be true. That's not to say, like, you have a negative thought, it ruins your life.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher18:10

       Right.

   15. JKJim Kwik18:10

       Any more than eating one donut will ruin your life. But we have to admit that if someone ate that donut 50 times a day every single day, there would be a consequence. And I think sometimes these thoughts could be the same way.

   16. JFJefferson Fisher18:22

       Is there a reason that our inner self-talk is usually harsher than what we'd ever say to people-

   17. JKJim Kwik18:33

       Yeah

   18. JFJefferson Fisher18:33

       ... that we actually love and care about?

   19. JKJim Kwik18:34

       Your brain evolved not for your, our happiness, but for our survival, right? So it forced us to have a negative bi- a negative bias because those things could be danger, right? So we're always hypervigilant for the things that could cause us pain.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher18:51

       Mm.

   21. JKJim Kwik18:51

       You know, because the brain was rewarded to be able to stay alive and stay safe, um, it needed to see what could go wrong, um, because a mistake could be very costly. So I think, um, most people have an, um, a bias towards negativity, and especially when we say it to ourselves. Um, and, and of course, we would never say those things to someone we love. So the, the filter that I would suggest if you say to yourself... 'Cause I, I think part of self-care, Jefferson, is not, not just, I don't know, e- exercising or going to the spa. I think part of self-care is looking in the mirror and loving that reflection that's looking back-

   22. JFJefferson Fisher19:29

       Mm

   23. JKJim Kwik19:30

       ... uh, who's been through so much but is still s- still standing.

   24. JFJefferson Fisher19:33

       Yeah.

   25. JKJim Kwik19:33

       Right? There's a lot of s- research on, like, when we, when we're hard on ourself, here's the reasons to, to do this less. When we're hard on ourselves, let's say we, um, "I'm, I'm such an idiot. You know, I'm not, I'm not worth, worth anything. I didn't, I said I would work out, but I didn't work out." But people think that by doing that, they would more likely follow through the next day, right?

   26. JFJefferson Fisher19:53

       Yeah.

   27. JKJim Kwik19:54

       But studies done on self-compassion say actually when you're kind to yourself, you're more likely to give yourself some grace.

   28. JFJefferson Fisher20:00

       Mm.

   29. JKJim Kwik20:00

       You're more likely to follow through. And so the filter is, like, when you say, "Oh, I'm too old. I'm an idiot," you know, just like, "Why does it..." If you wouldn't say it to, like, someone you love deeply, then I think that's the filter, you know, in terms of-

   30. JFJefferson Fisher20:13

       Yeah, mine's like, if I wouldn't say it to my kids-
8. 22:13 – 26:04

   Cognitive offloading through history: from writing and calculators to AI

   1. JFJefferson Fisher22:13

      And with a 100-day risk-free trial, can't beat that. Now, let's keep going. Is the reliance on AI, like when we go, when somebody says, "Okay, I'm gonna talk to ChatGPT or Claude or whatever," and they find that that's what they're going towards every time-

   2. JKJim Kwik22:30

      Yeah

   3. JFJefferson Fisher22:30

      ... they have a random thought in their head, and they're like, "I, I wanna see what AI has to say about that."

   4. JKJim Kwik22:34

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher22:34

      Is it, is it making our brain weaker or stronger?

   6. JKJim Kwik22:38

      Yeah. Um, so it's called cognitive offloading, and it's been throughout time, technology has changed the way our brain thinks-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher22:47

      Mm

   8. JKJim Kwik22:47

      ... and works. I mean, you think about from, I don't know, 300,000 BC to 3,000 BC, uh, that there was no written word, so people would have to be able to, uh, that they would have to be able to communicate everything through stories and everything.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher23:05

      Right.

   10. JKJim Kwik23:05

       Like, I mean, even, even early times, like, before there was, like, writing, they would pass, like, whether it's the Iliad or the Odyssey, it would be passed through just through human memory, right? And then when writing came, it changed the way people think, right? They, they would be putting things out for other people to be able to see, kind of like a second brain. And then when the printing press came, and it could be actually shared more, it changed things also-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher23:27

       Right

   12. JKJim Kwik23:27

       ... as well. And but even, even to modern times. I mean, calculators, you know, remember that? Like, you had to use-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher23:33

       [laughs] Yeah, for sure

   14. JKJim Kwik23:33

       ... a calculator, and you can't use them at the math. And I think it, there's a challenge because I think math is important in that it builds a lot, you know, logic, and for people to have an understanding of it. You know, I, I was... [laughs] This is sad. Uh, I was with, at a client thing, uh, and, uh, The bill came, it was 10 of us, and I swear, when the bill came, four people Jefferson took out their phones to divide by, the bill by 10, you know? And so that, that's a challenge. But we're-

   15. JFJefferson Fisher23:58

       I know there's some who get the calculator out to like, "Uh, what's the tip and how are we gonna split-"

   16. JKJim Kwik24:01

       Right

   17. JFJefferson Fisher24:01

       ... everything and yeah.

   18. JKJim Kwik24:02

       Yeah.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher24:02

       But so cognitive offloading.

   20. JKJim Kwik24:04

       So cognitive offloading is basically your brain grows through, through stressors, um, just like your muscles.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher24:09

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JKJim Kwik24:09

       You have to give it some kind of stimulus. But what happens when AI removes all the friction, right? And I talk about in Limitless, actually in 2020 when the book came out, I talk about the four villains of the s- of, of the mu- of the mental apocalypse, the horsemen.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher24:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JKJim Kwik24:22

       Number one, digital distraction. That's kinda obvious. That's why we train people how to focus. Digital deluge, which I termed, is the information overwhelm. There's actually a term information fatigue syndrome.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher24:32

       Hmm.

   26. JKJim Kwik24:32

       Higher blood pressure and compression of leisure time, more sleeplessness-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher24:35

       Mm-hmm

   28. JKJim Kwik24:35

       ... 'cause we're drowning in information. That's why we teach, you know, the speed reading, the accelerated learning. Digital dementia is a term in healthcare where, uh, the high reliance on technology to remember things for us. It, to your to-dos.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher24:48

       Yeah.

   30. JKJim Kwik24:48

       Your grocery list.
9. 26:04 – 29:53

   Digital deduction and communication: using AI as augmentation, not replacement

   1. JFJefferson Fisher26:04

      What, what is the cost of relying too much on AI-

   2. JKJim Kwik26:08

      Yeah

   3. JFJefferson Fisher26:08

      ... to communicate for you?

   4. JKJim Kwik26:09

      So the last one [laughs] so besides, so digital deduction, digital distraction, digital dementia, is digital deduction. And I termed that, I coined that phrase in Limitless, and that's, that's where technology is thinking for us, and it's also communicating a lot, right? Like there, there... I, I, I know too many people who are just going to, to respond to their, their spouse even.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher26:31

      Yeah.

   6. JKJim Kwik26:31

      Right? For things. And here's the challenge. So we, our brain grows through effort, but if, if AI removes all the friction... Now here it's interesting, 'cause people feel like AI will replace, you know, humans.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher26:44

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   8. JKJim Kwik26:45

      I, whether that happens or not, and certainly will to a certain degree, especially right now, there's like a barbell economy, right? You have like leadership, management here. You have, uh, like, uh, people who have, uh, skill-based things like, that, that are very more physical.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher27:00

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JKJim Kwik27:01

       Like AI's probably not gonna replace a HVAC or massage therapist and, and, and plumbers and so on. In the middle, though, copywriters, like v- you know, visual designers-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher27:12

       Yeah

   12. JKJim Kwik27:12

       ... coders, all that, that's gonna be challenged.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher27:14

       Totally different.

   14. JKJim Kwik27:15

       But that's, that's why communication I think is one of the pillars for human intelligence, meaning I would lean into becoming a better communicator just like I would learn, lean into the work we do in terms of being able to adapt, uh, faster.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher27:26

       So like leaning-

   16. JKJim Kwik27:27

       Like cog- cog- cognitive flexibility. So in, in communication-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher27:30

       Yeah

   18. JKJim Kwik27:30

       ... so basically AI will scale and amplify, but it, what is it gonna scale and amplify? Only what human beings bring to it. So if somebody is unclear in their communication or confused, it's just amp- amplify that-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher27:42

       Yeah

   20. JKJim Kwik27:42

       ... or their creation. If somebody is very clear and competent, right, then it could amplify that.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher27:47

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JKJim Kwik27:47

       And I, I don't see it as so much as artificial intelligence. I think more practical, functional, empowering approach would be like it's augmented intelligence. It's like a partner for you. It could be a creative partner for you to bounce-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher27:57

       Sure

   24. JKJim Kwik27:57

       ... ideas off to see where, you know, where your, the holes are or blind, blind spots, you know, risk factors. It's to stress test ideas that we wanna put out-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher28:05

       Yeah

   26. JKJim Kwik28:06

       ... you know, and, and communicate to the world.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher28:08

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JKJim Kwik28:08

       Um, but it's like a... I work with a lot of athletes, right? Uh, an F1 driver, they have this multimillion-dollar piece of technology. Think about that like AI, that's race car. But it's the driver that determines that performance.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher28:22

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JKJim Kwik28:22

       And so, you know, I'm a big advocate for human intelligence, and I ask, I'm actually very hopeful. Like it, it's gonna go one of two ways, and I'm hoping ins- instead of it just the, the, the bad things that you see on- online in movies, I feel like it could force us to become more human. 'Cause I think one of the most important, talk about conversations, I think one of the most important conversations to be had right now is the story we're living in, the conversation we're leaning in, which is how do you remain deeply human in a age of AI?
10. 29:53 – 34:57

    The BUILD method: strengthen your brain before you borrow AI’s output

    1. JFJefferson Fisher29:53

       ... that's where it can go south, so we don't wanna do that. The question I have is what is the number one thing that somebody can do-

    2. JKJim Kwik30:00

       Yeah

    3. JFJefferson Fisher30:00

       ... right now that's going to start improving their brain?

    4. JKJim Kwik30:04

       Yeah.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher30:05

       The, the most, you know, return-

    6. JKJim Kwik30:07

       Mm-hmm

    7. JFJefferson Fisher30:07

       ... that they can have.

    8. JKJim Kwik30:08

       Absolutely. Yeah, I know exactly. I've never talked about this, but this is what I, I do personally. Before I go to AI for anything-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher30:15

       Mm-hmm

    10. JKJim Kwik30:16

        ... uh, for any, like maybe I want to help with my communications or market-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher30:20

        Mm-hmm

    12. JKJim Kwik30:20

        ... whatever it happens to be, five things. Because the danger is not of a cognitive offloading, it's the trend towards cognitive surrender. Like, if we don't, if we're, if it's thinking for us, then what happens to a society that has, can't critically think or can't have-

    13. JFJefferson Fisher30:35

        Yeah

    14. JKJim Kwik30:35

        ... strong judgment or anything else?

    15. JFJefferson Fisher30:37

        Can't have it, right.

    16. JKJim Kwik30:37

        That's, that's a challenge, and we don't want those things to atrophy. Just like we could take an elevator to the fifth floor for an office or an apartment, but then we don't take the stairs. The elevator is a form of technology, it makes our life convenient, but we don't want it to cripple us when we take an Uber to go eight blocks to the bank-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher30:51

        Sure

    18. JKJim Kwik30:51

        ... when we could've got our steps in.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher30:52

        Right.

    20. JKJim Kwik30:52

        So it's always a balance. So five things you could think about, and I'll use an acronym, and this is what I use personally, and we use it with our team and clients, but I've never talked down about it on a podcast. I, I'm thinking, I'm interested in building, right? I wanna, I wanna build before I borrow from a AI.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher31:07

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JKJim Kwik31:08

        Right? I wanna build my brain, and I don't want to go slack by not using those thinking muscles. So the B stands for brainstorm. So before I post a prompt about w- a communication set or something else-

    23. JFJefferson Fisher31:20

        Mm-hmm

    24. JKJim Kwik31:20

        ... I'd wanna do the little bit of work myself. I wanna be able to brainstorm, uh, some, uh, some answers myself, right?

    25. JFJefferson Fisher31:27

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JKJim Kwik31:27

        I wanna be able to, uh, engage my, uh, uh, one of the I's, the imagination. The U is I wanna understand. 'Cause I often think, especially when we're dealing with problems or difficulty-

    27. JFJefferson Fisher31:37

        Mm-hmm

    28. JKJim Kwik31:37

        ... what was the Einstein quote? Like, "If I have an hour to solve a problem, I'll spend most of it focusing on defining the problem."

    29. JFJefferson Fisher31:42

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    30. JKJim Kwik31:43

        Um, and so understanding really what the situation is, I think is very important before we go to AI to tell us something it thinks, right? The, the I is imagination, and this is very tactic. I would be thinking about if I'm solving a problem using AI, before I even talk to AI, I'm using my own imagination, thinking, asking questions like, "What would a f- how would a five-year-old look at this problem?"
11. 34:57 – 39:32

    MIT study results + the HUMAN framework: what to develop that AI can’t replicate

    1. JFJefferson Fisher34:57

       I wanna-

    2. JKJim Kwik34:58

       Great

    3. JFJefferson Fisher34:58

       ... drill down on this cognitive offload. You know, how much are we relying on other things to be thinking, communicating for us-

    4. JKJim Kwik35:04

       Yeah

    5. JFJefferson Fisher35:04

       ... the cost of that. Uh, you were telling me earlier before we started about this, an MIT study.

    6. JKJim Kwik35:09

       Yeah, there was a recent MIT study, and they had to write, the students had to write communication essays, right? Um, and the first group A, B, C. Group A used, uh, ChatGPT to do it.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher35:20

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JKJim Kwik35:20

       Group B used Google, and Group C n- neither. Right? They had to use their own technology that they were born with-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher35:27

       Mm-hmm

    10. JKJim Kwik35:27

        ... you know, between their ears. And they scanned their brains, and they tested, you know, b- um, afterwards. And out of group A, B, and C, which one had the, the most cognitive engagement? It was the one that, that did the work themselves, not relying on technology, on the brain scans. What's, what's more interesting for me was when they were tested on their recall of what was created in terms of the final product, right, these essays, out of, out of group A, B, and C, which one requi- which one recalled by far the least was the one that used, uh, ChatGPT-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher36:01

        Mm-hmm

    12. JKJim Kwik36:01

        ... because it did the work for them. B- And because they didn't do the effort, they didn't get the reward, right?

    13. JFJefferson Fisher36:05

        Yeah.

    14. JKJim Kwik36:05

        It's, it's, it's the equivalent of, like, going to the gym and asking s- a friend of yours at the gym to lift the weights for you.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher36:11

        Right.

    16. JKJim Kwik36:11

        Right? You're not gonna get any of the benefit 'cause you have to earn it, and that's, that's a thing with, with our brains, you know, doing a little bit thi- uh, more. You know, 'cause I'm hoping that AI can help automate things, make our life easier for lower mental tasks, but it frees up the bandwidth to, to create. I mean, I, I think communication, I think communication's one of the pillars. I, I call them human, that if, if everyo- you know, when in the age of AI, it's gonna force us, 'cause we're not gonna out-process or compute a c- you know, computer. But it'll force us to be valuable in th- the workforce. H is, um, heart, which is for me the symbol of emotion. That's emotional. I'd be leaning into right now if someone listening anything for your EQ.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher36:51

        Mm.

    18. JKJim Kwik36:51

        Empathy, compassion. Um, 'cause AI's not gonna be able to duplicate that. The, the U is understanding.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher36:58

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JKJim Kwik36:58

        And I think it's important to be able to be curious today more than ever. You know, I think what's one of the through lines with high performers is they're insanely curious, and that's why they progress.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher37:07

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JKJim Kwik37:07

        They, you know, that your mind only, it's like a parachute, only works when it's opened, so to understand deeply. Uh, the M in human stands for meaning.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher37:16

        Mm.

    24. JKJim Kwik37:16

        I think we're purpose-driven creatures, and I think it's gonna force people to, to go deeper into what lights them up and lights other people up.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher37:23

        Yeah.

    26. JKJim Kwik37:24

        Meaning passion and purpose are often interchanged as words. For me, they're very, very specific. Passion for me def- is defined by anything that lights, lights you up.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher37:32

        Mm.

    28. JKJim Kwik37:33

        And you can have lots of passions.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher37:34

        Sure.

    30. JKJim Kwik37:34

        Right? It could be pickleball, it could be nature, it could be your kid.
12. 39:32 – 44:40

    Lightning round: remembering names (SUAVE), plus the deeper driver (MOM)

    1. JFJefferson Fisher39:32

       I wanna do a lightning round with you.

    2. JKJim Kwik39:34

       Yeah.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher39:34

       Cool? So I have about five or six questions that we're gonna, let's try and get them in, like, 30-second-

    4. JKJim Kwik39:42

       Yeah, yeah. Okay

    5. JFJefferson Fisher39:43

       ... blitz.

    6. JKJim Kwik39:43

       Yeah, yeah.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher39:43

       You cool?

    8. JKJim Kwik39:44

       Yeah, Kwik.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher39:44

       It's gonna, it's gonna be-

    10. JKJim Kwik39:44

        Well, the people keep it Kwik. Kwik really is my last name

    11. JFJefferson Fisher39:46

        ... really easy. This, this is gonna be easy. How do we remember somebody's name rather than forgetting it the moment that we met them?

    12. JKJim Kwik39:53

        Yeah. I, I use SUAVE. S is you say the name.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher39:56

        Yeah.

    14. JKJim Kwik39:56

        You repeat it right away. Grant, it's nice to meet you.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher39:58

        Use it a lot. Use their name in a sentence.

    16. JKJim Kwik39:59

        I would say say it first to make sure you heard it correctly. You don't wanna say, have a 20-minute conversation with Ted and say, "Goodbye, Ed."

    17. JFJefferson Fisher40:05

        Yeah. [laughs]

    18. JKJim Kwik40:05

        So I immediately, when they introduce themselves, I'll say it back. Grant, nice to meet you.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher40:09

        Yeah, repeat it back to them.

    20. JKJim Kwik40:09

        U, U is, uh, use the name, but I would only use it three or four times in the conversation. Don't abuse it. Right? Jefferson thinks of-

    21. JFJefferson Fisher40:15

        Overuse it.

    22. JKJim Kwik40:15

        Yeah, like, Je- Jefferson's a great dude. You agree with me? What do you have Jefferson-

    23. JFJefferson Fisher40:18

        Yeah. Oh, Jefferson.

    24. JKJim Kwik40:18

        What do you think of Jefferson? Yeah, right, right. That would be an abuse. But use it three or four times. Um, the A is ask. When you meet somebody and their, their name is a little unusual, it's a name you haven't heard before-

    25. JFJefferson Fisher40:26

        Yeah

    26. JKJim Kwik40:26

        ... then everyone's favorite subject is themselves. Ask, what can you ask? "Oh, who are you named after?"

    27. JFJefferson Fisher40:31

        Right.

    28. JKJim Kwik40:31

        You know, "How do you spell it?" You know-

    29. JFJefferson Fisher40:32

        Yeah

    30. JKJim Kwik40:32

        ... "Uh, what does it mean?" You know-
13. 44:40 – 1:03:18

    Brain performance basics: MEDS, hydration, reading—and memory techniques for real conversations

    1. JFJefferson Fisher44:40

       off. Now, let's keep going. What causes our brain to underperform?

    2. JKJim Kwik44:46

       So it's hardware and software. Sometimes the software we're using to remember things or to focus is, hasn't been updated. Like repetition to remember something is so antiquated. Like you have to study something and repeat it 50 times in your head, or people are reading slow and they haven't taken another class since they were six years old, so their reading ability is just that of a six-year-old.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher45:03

       Mm-hmm.

    4. JKJim Kwik45:03

       So part of it is the software programming, but the other part is the hardware. You know, I always tell people, "You want another acronym? MEDS. Take your MEDS. You want a good brain? M is meditate. You have to disconnect to reconnect."

    5. JFJefferson Fisher45:14

       Mm.

    6. JKJim Kwik45:14

       I also think there is power in a pause also, meaning that sometimes when you pause a camera or you pause your computer or your TV, it stops working.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher45:21

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JKJim Kwik45:22

       I feel like sometimes when we pause ourself, we start working, we start recalibrating, we start recovering, we start rethinking, right?

    9. JFJefferson Fisher45:28

       Yeah.

    10. JKJim Kwik45:28

        So I would say the M is meditation. The E in MEDS is exercise. And I don't just mean going to the gym, although when you exercise, you create BDNF, which is brain-derived neurotrophic factors, which is like fertilizer for neuroplasticity, very essential. You also create natural dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, which is good. Um, but I mean moving throughout the day. They say sitting is, is the next, you know-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher45:47

        Mm

    12. JKJim Kwik45:47

        ... is, is the new smoking and everything. Moving throughout the day, taking a brain break. The D is diet. I always sort of remind everybody, sometimes our brain underperforms 'cause of the food we eat. You're in a, you're in a food coma. High inflammation, processed food, high sugar, glucose spikes could affect your, your cognitive ability and overall cognitive health, and I always talk about some of my favorite... This whole area of science I write about called neuronutrition, that your brain, that what you eat matters, especially for your gray matter. Some of my favorite foods are like avocados, blueberries, I call 'em brain berries, walnuts, very neuroprotective. Um, eggs, the choline in eggs.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher46:18

        Yeah.

    14. JKJim Kwik46:18

        Cetylcholine, olive oil, dark chocolate. And then the S in MEDS is sleep.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher46:23

        For sure. [laughs]

    16. JKJim Kwik46:23

        Some people, the, the, the, sometimes people-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher46:25

        Yeah

    18. JKJim Kwik46:25

        ... brain and memory's not where it needs to be-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher46:27

        Yeah

    20. JKJim Kwik46:27

        ... because of poor sleep hygiene. Yeah, so-

    21. JFJefferson Fisher46:29

        Yeah

    22. JKJim Kwik46:29

        ... I would say software, yes, you can find it. We have it, all the stuff out there. But I would say the hardware, you have to take care of the, the brain, the three-pound matter between your ears, too.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher46:38

        How do you train yourself to think faster on your feet?

    24. JKJim Kwik46:41

        Yeah. Reaction time, thinking speed.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher46:44

        Yes.

    26. JKJim Kwik46:44

        Yeah. Uh, I just had, um, a, a neuroscientist nutritionist on our podcast, and, uh, and Dr. Lisa Mosconi, she was saying that just staying hydrated, your brain is mostly water.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher46:55

        Mm.

    28. JKJim Kwik46:55

        Just staying hydrated could boost your reaction time, your thinking speed upwards of 30%.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher46:58

        Hmm.

    30. JKJim Kwik46:59

        So I just wanna remind people to drink your water, and especially when you wake up, 'cause-

Episode duration: 1:03:18