3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Why ending relationships feels so painful (and why we avoid it)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      How do you end a relationship? Whether it's for work, whether it's romantic, how do you cut ties with someone? Well, at the end of today's podcast, you're gonna walk away with exactly how to do it. You ready? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, there's something I want you to do. There is a button wherever you're listening called Subscribe or where, where you're watching. I want you to click it. It's not gonna take

2. 0:30 – 2:31

   Sponsor break, then the breakup/termination role-play that shows what not to do

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:30

      two seconds, and the reason why is because I am promising you that what I'm going to continue to do is deliver value on how to improve your communication skills. And whenever you subscribe or you like or you comment, it tells the platform this is good content, and that's my promise, to help deliver good content in a way that is easy, accessible, and hopefully friendly. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth. It's a sponsor because I wear their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed, and I travel in it. I, I wore a, a sweatshirt that was a Cozy Earth sweatshirt all throughout my tour. I just got back from the Today Show, and it was fantastic. You can go to cozyearth.com/jefferson for 40% off. Use the code JEFFERSON. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code JEFFERSON for 40% off. How do you end a relationship? This is how it typically goes. This is how it typically goes. You come down, you meet with me, we sit down over coffee. You come into my office. So let's just put it... Let's, let's role play this. Right now, wherever you're listening, maybe you're walking, you're sitting down, let's imagine it. You and I come into a space, and I am the one that has to deliver bad news. I'm the one that has to end it. You sit down, and I say, "So how, how are you? You good? Yeah. How, how's your, how's your family and everybody? They all right? Oh. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy, right? Uh, and this, this weather. [chuckles] This weather is just doing wild things. I know they said it was gonna be hot, but if it wasn't, man, yeah. That rain, it's crazy. So, uh, so listen, I, um, I think y- you're just... You've been such a good, you know, person, and you're so great, and I've really enjoyed getting to know you, and it's..." Stop. Time out. Cut. Is this not just painful? I mean, I'm the one role playing

3. 2:31 – 3:32

   The hidden cost of delaying: anxiety, inauthenticity, and months of unnecessary waiting

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:31

      this, and it is painful for me. It's awkward. It hurts. Ugh. Anytime you need to deliver bad news, the person who has to deliver it, it is one of the worst feelings because you know that it's coming. It's the cliffhanger. I bet you you know people, and maybe you're one of them, that will delay doing it as much as possible. You, you will be in a relationship for six months longer than you need to. You'll let that person work with you for six months longer than you need to because you're not sure how you need to end it. You talk to somebody and they're like, "Are you breaking up with that person?" Like, "Uh, yeah, I need to. I just, I don't really know how," and it, it is such a disservice to you. Please stop. I'm gonna teach you how to do this. Instead of this, uh, horrible, this mush, this quick saying of, "I don't know how I'm gonna feel." You have a pit in your stomach when you're brushing your teeth. You're on the commute. You... Whenever you know you're gonna meet with that person, your heart's just beating in your chest. Stop. Stop. We're gonna clear that up. Number one, first

4. 3:32 – 4:33

   Step 1: Skip the small talk—why it backfires

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:32

      problem is the small talk. Number one, do not begin with small talk. When somebody's coming to sit down with you and you're like, "Hey, so how are you? Oh, you good? Yeah, how's your, your, uh, pickleball? Did you, do you see that, uh, bird the other day? Yeah, man, that's..." We always like to say, "It, that's crazy. Oh, that's crazy." There's nothing cra- [chuckles] there's nothing crazy about it. Um, stop doing that. The small talk is one of the worst pain points because you as a listener, if you've ever been on the other side of this, you know exactly how it feels. You're like, "What's, what's wrong? Something's off. I can tell." We have this sixth sense about us where we go, "Nope, something's not right. I can... This is a setup. This is a trap. What's going on?" And you're just kind of waiting for the hammer to drop. And what happens is there's small talk, small talk, small talk, and they give you the phrase. You ready? The phrase is, "So listen." Boom. And it just tanks from there. They know the bottom has just dropped out. They know that it's, it's the worst thing that could possibly happen. It's not genuine, it's not kind, and it's not

5. 4:33 – 5:33

   Replace small talk with a label: "This is going to be difficult"

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:33

      honest. Stop doing it. Instead, this small talk, what I want you to do is to label the conversation. Label the conversation. You're gonna just... You gotta turn on the cold water, y'all. You gotta turn on the cold water sometimes. The, the... Sometimes the, the most kind thing you can do is be the most direct that you can be. Meaning, when you delay the hard conversation, you are only making it worse for both of you because you are, you are not operating in a state of authenticity. The quicker you can get to that main point... I just hit my knuckles so hard. [clears throat] Whenever you connect together in a way that does not break your knuckles, whenever you get really, you bring that time closest to, "Let me rip off the Band-Aid instead of ripping it off slowly," you're familiar with that, the better things are gonna be. And it's true. It's true. Because if, while they're waiting for the hammer to drop, you're the one that... Let's

6. 5:33 – 7:35

   Why we small-talk anyway: it’s for the speaker, not the listener

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:33

      be honest. The reason you do all that small talk is not for them. It's for you, to make yourself feel better, to make you feel a little bit more calm and comfortable. You're doing it for you, when in actuality, it does nothing for them. It only spikes their anxiety. It makes them understand that what all came before it is just not genuine. It's not true. It was just fluff, because now you're about to deliver the news you really wanted to do. Instead of all the small talk, you're gonna label the conversation. What does that sound like, Jefferson? It sounds like, "This is gonna be a difficult conversation." This isn't gonna be fun to talk about. It sounds as easy as, "This is gonna be a, a difficult conversation," or, "This is gonna be hard. This isn't gonna be fun to discuss. I'm not f- looking forward to this conversation. This might come as a surprise to you. This might come as a, a shock to you." For me, in my world, in, in my team, uh, anybody law firm related otherwise, when they have to deliver bad news, what I ask is they say, "You're not gonna like this." First thing the phone call, say, "You're not gonna like this." And it allows me to go, "Okay, I'm ready." And, like, mentally, I, I, and I, I'm kind of preparing myself to go, "Okay. All right. Let's hear it." And then whatever comes after, it, it is what it is. Instead of leading with the phone call of, "Hey, so, uh, okay, we, well, we, we got a issue..." It's not just ending a termination. It's... Or it's not just ending a relationship. It's not just terminating a relationship. It's also any bad news at all. But I, I like... I wanna focus specifically on ending a relationship today. You hear how small talk is not kind? Being unclear is not kind, even though it tries to make yourself feel better. Label the conversation. You get to sit with them, let's say in a romantic setting. Uh, you need to break up with somebody. It can be as, as easy as, "This isn't gonna be a fun conversation." Or if it's totally catching them off guard, y- you can even say, "This is probably gonna catch you off guard. This is gonna... This might come as a surprise

7. 7:35 – 8:35

   Step 2: Deliver the news immediately—bottom line first

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:35

      to you." Two, number two. Let's move to number two. The first thing out of your mouth after that, you're gonna give it a two-second little break to allow them to ready themselves, and they will. First thing out of your mouth is the news, is the news. In a work context, you're saying, "We need to let you go." In a romantic relationship, it's, "We need to break up." Sim- whatever it is, y- you have to get to the bottom line immediately. Don't start going back to small talk. Don't start going back to mush. You're going to deliver the hard news. "This isn't working out for me. The, you're not gonna... Th- this, this isn't working out." That's fine. Deliver the, the bottom line right out of the gate because it is being direct. Remember, bring in connection. So number two is get to the point right away. Number three is... So you see how simple that is? I guess, like, it's self-explanatory. Get to the point. Number three is

8. 8:35 – 9:35

   Step 3: Gratitude and compliments come after the decision (not before)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:35

      now you can lead with the gratitude. Now you can bring on the compliments. We always do it backwards. We love to do it backwards. Uh, let's say you and I are in a romantic relationship right now, and I'm saying... The first thing out of my mouth is I sit down with you, and I immediately go into what? Past tense. "Hey, so you, so you're really... I think you're really great, and I've really enjoyed, you know, just getting to know you these past few months." What's the first thing you're thinking? "What's happening? Uh-oh. We're breaking up. This is terrible. What did I do?" And all of a sudden, I'm going, "No, no, no, it's not you. It's, it's, it's me." You're darn right it's you. I mean, it's... When I say it's you, I mean it's me. I'm... Meaning it's me. I'm the one that is leading this conversation. Yes, I'm the one. It's not about them. It's not about what they've done wrong. It's not you, you, you, you. You've done terrible stuff. If you're gonna do anything, number three says add on gratitude. Now you can add the compliments. Now you can add the positivity 'cause

9. 9:35 – 10:36

   Don’t turn it into a grievance list—avoid "you, you, you"

   1. JFJefferson Fisher9:35

      you want to end on a po- a positive note. This is not where you start laying out all the things they've done wrong, where you say, "Look, this is gonna be a difficult conversation. It's time for us to, to part ways. You know, you're just... You're not for me. I, I really don't like, I don't like the sound of your voice. Uh, you always come in late. Uh, you never get your projects on time. You're not really my cup of tea." When you just go you, you, you, you, you, you, there is nothing left. This person will end up hating you forever when this might be your last conversation. E- end the conversation on a positive note, as positive as you, as you can make it. Even if you don't really care for this person, I don't care. End your life in a positive way. It will always last longer than you end it in the negative. If you just wanna burn every bidge, bridge, kick, kick down the house, um, whatever it is, always end positive. So this is where you get to say, w- w-... have, have to say... Let's, let's put it in a, a example. This is where you

10. 10:36 – 11:36

    Putting it together: sample scripts for work and romantic breakups

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:36

       might say, "I need to have a difficult conversation with you. It's time to let you go." You hear how I just said that? Then I'm gonna add on the, "You've been a great, uh, uh, you've been a great person. I've really enjoyed getting to know you these last two months, and I think I, I'm really looking forward to your career and where you're gonna be headed. It's, it's just not gonna be here. Really, really enjoy, you know, getting to know you." You see how I am, I am looking forward to whatever the future is for this person? In a romantic setting, it might be, "L- listen, this is gonna be hard to talk about. It's not working for me. I, I've really enjoyed just getting to know you, and I think we've had a lot of laughs and a lot of memories. I know you're gonna have an awesome future. This is not gonna be, not gonna be together." You hear how that's a whole lot more kind than if I were to say, "This is gonna be hard to talk about. We need to go separate ways. Yeah, you, you're just not for me. You, you're pretty terrible," um,

11. 11:36 – 12:39

    Recap of the three steps + "own the I" framing

    1. JFJefferson Fisher11:36

       and I just lay out all of my grievances. Don't. That's not the time. That's not the time. So how do we wrap this thing up? How do we end this conversation? Number one, anytime you have to have a, a conversation where you're breaking things up, ending a relationship, whether it's romantic, work, friendship, skip the small talk. Number one, skip the small talk. Label the conversation. Pour the cold water on it. "This is gonna be hard to talk about. This isn't gonna be fun for either of us. I'm not looking forward to this conversation." Easy as that, you're ripping off the Band-Aid. Number two, get to the point immediately. "We need to sep s-, uh, we need to go our separate ways. I need to let you go." You're off the team. Uh, we need to break up. And it, and three is own the I. It's not you, all the things you've done wrong, it's me. I, I'm talking about me, and I'm going to add on the positive of the things that I enjoyed about us that is going to be where it is, but it is not gonna be continuing on in the future. Far

12. 12:39 – 14:40

    Letting go of fear: you can’t control their reaction

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:39

       better than the small talk of, "Oh, you good? Uh, so listen, uh..." Don't do that. It's not kind. Let's be kind in our conversations, especially when it's time for you to break them off. And that, and that's just normal. That's natural. Now, I wanna add on this bit about there might be times where you think, "Oh, I, I can't. I can't do that. They, they're gonna hate me. They're gonna hate me." Let's talk about that. They're not. They're not. I mean, they, they might. [laughs] They, they might, depending on it. What do I know? But they're, they can't do it forever, and you, you c- you can't control that. That's my point. You can't control somebody's feelings. My dad would tell me anytime I, um, I can remember not wanting to do something because of being afraid of somebody else's reaction to things, and I would say, "Well, Dad, they're gonna be mad about it." And he'd go, "Yeah, I guess they'll be mad." Or I'd say, "They're gonna be disappointed." And he'd go, "Yeah, I, I guess they'll be disappointed." And it was such a way for me to start thinking of the, "Yeah, you know what? He's ... That's ... It's true. I can't do anything with their feelings. Yeah, they're gonna be sad. Yeah, they're gonna be sad, and then life's gonna continue on. Yeah, they're gonna be disappointed, then life's going to continue on." Can't control anything about their opinions. For you to say, "Ah, they're ... What if they're not gonna like me?" 'Cause that's why we delay it. All right? We're disappointed of, or worried about their reaction. How are they gonna feel about it? But you can't carry that. Don't, don't carry the weight of their own feelings. Don't feel their feelings for them. Don't feel their feelings for them. Best thing you can do is be as direct as you can be. That's how you end a relationship, whether it's romantic, friendship, work-wise, and this is where I have to say it's time for us to go. You've been

13. 14:40 – 15:07

    Closing: where to continue learning communication tools

    1. JFJefferson Fisher14:40

       great. Listen, you've been great, [laughs] but it's time for us to end the episode. Thank you for listening. As always, if you would like to continue on in the conversation, improving your c- communications, you can go to my social media or my membership. I am really loving the live Q&As and hot seats that I'm able to do. You can find all the show notes down there at the bottom. Or if you have not yet got my book, The Next Conversation, I encourage you to do so. As always, you can try that and follow me

Episode duration: 15:08