How I Handle Arguments In My Family | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 0:50

   House rules for sibling arguments: let them argue, but ban personal attacks

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      I wanna know how you handle arguments in your own house.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:04

      Hmm.

   3. SPSpeaker0:04

      And I bet our community does too. And then the second question is, you talk about this idea of having goals and values, like, going into conversations.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:11

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SPSpeaker0:11

      So tell us about that 'cause, you know, we love a goal, and we-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher0:14

      Yeah

   7. SPSpeaker0:14

      ... love a conversation.

   8. SPSpeaker0:15

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker0:15

      So let's put them together. But first, tell us how you handle it at your house.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher0:19

       Of course. Well, there's, there's exceptions for everything, uh, but we have what we call house rules, and that is if my sib- like, if my kids are arguing, now they're five and seven, all right? But if they're arguing, number one, I let them argue. Like, I, I don't try to stop it. I try to let them argue because I, I truly think it's a wonderful training ground for them to be able to express themselves and to try it. So, I mean, they're stretching the limits of what they can say and what they can't say. Now-

   11. SPSpeaker0:50

       That's good

2. 0:50 – 1:48

   Post-argument debriefs: teaching kids to rephrase and anticipate impact

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:50

      ... these rules mean you cannot say anything about their intelligence or say anything, like a personal attack. You can't say someone's stupid. You can't say someone's... Anything that is harmful in that way. You can't put them down. It's more of a prove your point. And so it, it, we'll also sometime have these debriefs of, "Okay, Ruby," you know, my daughter's Ruby. Say, "W- what are you trying to say? Okay. Well, you hear how you just said that to him?" "Yeah." "Okay. Well, you hear how... What do you think he's gonna think about that?" "He's not gonna like it." "Okay." And so, like, trying to teach how they're gonna construct their argument. My son is much better at it than my daughter. One, he's older. Two, he's like a mini me.

   2. SPSpeaker1:32

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:32

      Uh, and she is my mini wife. And so sometimes I have to be like, "Chet, I know what you're doing." Like, I, I know... 'Cause he can be, he can try... Like, if he wants to get something, he'll come at it multiple different ways. I'm like, "Man, you think I don't know what you're doing?"

   4. SPSpeaker1:48

      [laughs]

3. 1:48 – 3:00

   Persuasion at bedtime: ‘Tell me why I should say yes’

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:48

      But the, um, the, the best thing about it is using that as a, as a place for them to express. Like, if my son wants something, I'll say, "Tell me why. Tell me why I should say yes." I do that a lot. So he, he m- he, he might want me to do something, and typically it's right before bed, of course.

   2. SPSpeaker2:07

      Of course.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher2:07

      And I'll say-

   4. SPSpeaker2:08

      Of course.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher2:09

      And I'll say, "Well, tell me why I should say yes to this." And I, I never allow them just to say, "Well, because, because I want you to." I'm like, "That's not a good reason. I need, I need you to tell me why. Convince me." And, um, it's a great way to get them to think outside the box. And the one, [laughs] my favorite said, he leaned it on, was, "Well, you don't want me to be sad because I'm your son, and if you don't do this, well, I think I'm gonna be really sad."

   6. SPSpeaker2:36

      [laughs]

   7. JFJefferson Fisher2:36

      And like, when, when he said that I was like, "Okay, that's fair." Every once in a while, they, they'll say something so good that I'm like, "You know what? I gotta respect... Game respects game, you know? I, I gotta, I gotta-

   8. SPSpeaker2:48

      [laughs]

   9. JFJefferson Fisher2:49

      ... I gotta allow it to you 'cause that was a really good argument." But yeah, it's teaching them-

   10. SPSpeaker2:53

       [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher2:53

       ... teaching them of how the right way and the wrong way to try and persuade to get your point across. How do you communicate-

   12. SPSpeaker2:59

       Love that

   13. JFJefferson Fisher2:59

       ... that with each other?

   14. SPSpeaker2:59

       Yeah, that's fantastic.

4. 3:00 – 3:31

   Conversational values: using principles to guide what you do under pressure

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:00

      Yeah. And you say, okay, how do you add these to the values? How do you show up? I, I, what I believe in is that you need to have conversational values, meaning principles that you, that guide yourself when things go unexpectedly in conversation, and they, they work the same way as a company value. Company decisions become easier when there's a company value. Values make the decisions for you. One of the principles of my law firm is biblical. It's feed his sheep. That's, that's

5. 3:31 – 4:05

   Kindness as a default: choosing the ‘kind’ option when there’s room

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

      the commandment. And so I don't care if it doesn't make money. It's this idea of does it fit with our value? Is it going to... Does it support our mission? If the answer is yes, then that's what we're gonna do. Same thing with a conversational value. My mom taught me kindness, and so one of my values is where there is kindness, I will use it. If there is room for kindness, I will use it. I don't have to worry about the snarky thing I'm gonna say right back. I'm not gonna have to worry about the zinger. The question, is there room for kindness? [gentle music] If the answer is yes, then I will show it, and I will use it. It becomes easier.

6. 4:05 – 5:37

   Confidence reframed: it’s the reward, not the prerequisite

   1. SPSpeaker4:05

      You said in the book that this is, like, the most... I think you said this. This is the most common question you get. How can I be more confident?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher4:13

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker4:13

      And I thought you had some surprising and very practical advice for that.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher4:19

      [lip smacks] Yeah, I get the question a lot. "How do you, how do you... How can I be more confident?" And people see it as something you need to have before a conversation.

   5. SPSpeaker4:28

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher4:28

      "Well, I'm just building up the confidence to say this," or, "Oh, I wish I had the confidence to say X, Y, and Z." They got it wrong. This is the wrong way to look at it. It's the exact opposite. Confidence is the outcome. Confidence is the reward. Confidence is the consequence of doing the assertive thing. So what I teach is confidence is as assertive does, um-

   7. SPSpeaker4:54

      Love that

   8. JFJefferson Fisher4:54

      ... which is like, it's kind of that Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does kind of thing.

   9. SPSpeaker5:00

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker5:00

       [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher5:00

       Uh, of this mentality of when you say the assertive thing, when you can use your assertive voice, the result is confidence because confidence is a feeling. It comes from something. I- if I were to say, "I need you to be mad at me right now," you'd have a hard time getting mad at me. If I kick you in your shin, you have no problem being mad at me.

   12. SPSpeaker5:20

       [laughs]

   13. JFJefferson Fisher5:21

       There is this fe- It, it comes from something. So confidence is not something you can just summon. Go, "I need to be more confident, and I got it, and now I wanna say the thing." It don't work like that. It's using your assertive voice to feel more confident.

7. 5:37 – 7:20

   Assertive voice tool #1: stop unnecessary apologizing (use gratitude instead)

   1. SPSpeaker5:37

      You talk about, uh, over-apologizing in that context, and could you-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher5:42

      Yeah

   3. SPSpeaker5:42

      ... uh, explain or give us some examples of what it would look like to be assertive versus sort of hesitation or over-apologizing.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher5:51

      Really three main things when it comes to sounding and being and using your assertive voice. Number one is removing or cutting down on the excessive apologizing. That's when you say, "I'm sorry-" ... in every single sentence. When you say, let's say you get an email that you haven't responded to right away. "Hey, I'm so sorry I'm just now getting back to you. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I'm just now seeing this." Um, you cut in line by accident, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry." Like, these... Y- you're two minutes late to a meeting, "Oh my... I'm, I am so sorry I'm late." Th- these, every time you have these unnecessary apologies, meaning apologizing for something that is not an error, it is not a mistake, it is not something, like, you have, you truly made a big problem, what it's doing is slowly cutting down on your, your self-esteem and your self-worth. Instead, just flip it to words of gratitude. "Thank you for your patience. Thank you for giving me the time to respond to this. I'm grateful for the time to think on this. Thank you for X, Y, and Z." I- let's put it in a, an email. Let's say you haven't responded to somebody's email in three, three days. Instead of the, "So sorry I'm just now getting back to this. I've just been so swamped and so busy, and I just have so many other priorities aside from you," like, that right there. Okay? Instead of that, all you need to do is say, "Thank you for the time to think on this." I mean [laughs] ... And they're gonna say, "Oh, yeah, you're welcome. I'm..." They're gonna say, "Thank you for your patience." They're gonna think, "I- you're so right. I am patient. Yes, I am. Oh, you're so welcome." Uh-

8. 7:20 – 8:48

   Assertive voice tool #2: remove self-discounting phrases that derail the message

   1. SPSpeaker7:20

      [laughs]

   2. JFJefferson Fisher7:20

      ... instead, just use wor- words of gratitude. Just u- words of gratitude instead of over-apologizing. Two would be cutting down on your words, meaning I'd say something like, "H- I hate to bother you, but, um..." Or, "This might be a dumb question, but..." You know, every time you do that, you're just conveying the exact opposite of the message. In fact, you're inserting this mini conversation about your self-esteem, like, right in between it. If somebody says, "Hey, I hate to bother you," what do they say? They're gonna say, "Oh, you're not bothering me." And then you have to be like, "Oh, oh, I'm not bothering you? Are, are you sure?" They're like, "No, no, no, you're not bothering me." "Oh, oh, okay." And all they think of when you're now you're talking is, "God, this bothers me." Like, this, that's all they-

   3. SPSpeaker8:00

      [laughs]

   4. JFJefferson Fisher8:00

      ... think about. Same thing with the dumb question. You say, "This is gonna be a dumb question." What's the answer everybody says? "There's no such thing as a dumb question." [laughs] And then they have to go, "Oh, oh, okay. Well, let me [laughs] ask this question." And then all it sounds like when you're asking is, "This is the dumbest question I've ever heard."

   5. SPSpeaker8:18

      [laughs]

   6. JFJefferson Fisher8:18

      So it's just you're cutting down on your own, your, your own self-esteem. Don't, don't do that. You just remove it. In fact, instead of cutting away from it, just add onto it and you say, "I'd like to build on something of this thought," or, "I'd like to add onto..." People love that kind of language because it adds onto your experience. It adds onto the conversation. "One thing that I've been thinking about, one thing I'd like to add," any of that kind of stuff is going to build onto the conversation. And lastly, you want to take away or at least minimize

9. 8:48 – 9:29

   Assertive voice tool #3: cut ‘LY’ adverbs and fillers that water down clarity

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:48

      the use of adverbs, words that end in L-Y, like literally, basically, essentially, uh, or just or so or very. These are words that just water down your drink. If I said nothing but literally... I have a, one of my best friends, he begins with, "So basically, um..." Or have a f- almost every sentence. And I'll, I'll say, "Matt, what's, what's the basic part?" And he, and he'll laugh because we've talked about this and I'm trying to keep him accountable for it. But people who say clearly, "He clearly didn't," or obviously, if it was clearly or obviously, you wouldn't have to, you wouldn't have to say it.

   2. SPSpeaker9:26

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher9:26

      So those are some things that could help your assertive voice.

10. 9:29 – 10:34

    Why practical language matters: avoiding ‘word salad’ communication

    1. SPSpeaker9:29

       I love that so much because it's so practical.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher9:32

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker9:32

       You know? I mean, we can all find ourselves in those recommendations.

    4. SPSpeaker9:36

       Literally.

    5. SPSpeaker9:36

       We can literally-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher9:37

       Yeah. Literally

    7. SPSpeaker9:38

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker9:39

       ... very much so identify with that. Um, but I, I love that it's just s- it's actionable. We can just go do it, and it's not some kind of philosophical statement, so I think that, that's helpful. Um, yeah.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher9:54

       There's a difference between, like, somebody saying, um, a, a easy sentence like, "I, I want to increase the budget," period, or somebody saying... This is what we typically hear. "So, um, so basically what I'm thinking is, and you can totally tell me if I'm, I'm wrong, but, uh, so, like, and, and, and, and maybe we..." You're going, "What are we say- what are we doing here? What are, what are we saying?"

    10. SPSpeaker10:19

        Yeah.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher10:19

        So it's, it's much harder to filter it out, sift it out to get the actual message.

    12. SPSpeaker10:23

        We call that in our house word salad.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher10:25

        Ooh.

    14. SPSpeaker10:26

        You know? It just-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher10:26

        Yeah

    16. SPSpeaker10:26

        ... it just feels like chopped salad and, like, what are these words? There's a lot of words here, but I don't really know what they mean, and they just all sort of feel mixed up. Um-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher10:34

        Yeah

11. 10:34 – 12:40

    Doing it scared: public speaking story reinforces confidence-after-action

    1. SPSpeaker10:34

       ... I love this point about confidence being the reward.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher10:39

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker10:39

       I will often say to clients, "Confidence is not a prerequisite for taking the action that you need to take."

    4. JFJefferson Fisher10:45

       Mm.

    5. SPSpeaker10:45

       And the idea of taking assertive action that you're talking about, to me is, is a relief because it's like, oh, I don't, I don't have to gin up this feeling of confidence that I really have no idea how to access, which it feels sort of like it just magically happens sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. That's not a necessary prerequisite for doing the thing that needs to be done. And on the one hand, that means you sort of have to come to grips with, I have to do this thing scared sometimes. I have to have a-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher11:13

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker11:13

       ... conversation that feels scary. But it also means it's in your control instead of sort of, like, waiting for the fairy dust to be sprinkled-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher11:21

       [laughs]

    9. SPSpeaker11:21

       ... on you, at which point you are now qualified to go forth and have this conversation that you don't wanna have. I, I love that because I, I, I wish someone would've told me when I was a kid, you know? 'Cause I think I always thought all... When we see people taking assertive action, they look confident, and so we assume-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher11:38

        Mm-hmm

    11. SPSpeaker11:38

        ... that they are confident. You know, that I had a... I don't know if I told you this when we were in Charleston. I don't think I did, but, um, I used to have a debilitating fear of public speaking, and part of the reason that I had that fear is I wrongly assumed that all the people that I saw up on stage just loved it and were naturally great at it, like they just rolled out of bed one day when they were 10 years old and they were just, like, made to keynote, and they-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher12:00

        Mm-hmm

    13. SPSpeaker12:00

        ... never felt nervous about it. Little did I know everybody feels nervous. It's part of what makes you-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher12:05

        Yeah

    15. SPSpeaker12:05

        ... good at it. Once you get up there, it's fine. You know, like, all these things. I had to test it. I tested it in front of 800 people, by the way, for the first time, so, you know, go big or go home.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher12:14

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker12:14

        Um, but it was great ex-

    18. SPSpeaker12:15

        She did great

    19. SPSpeaker12:16

        ... it was great exposure therapy to realize, oh, I get the reward of feeling confident after I did The brave assertive action, it was not necessary before. Not only was it not gonna happen, but it just wasn't necessary, and I think that's such great news for people.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher12:31

        Yeah, it's this idea of most people are confident because they've been there before, they've done it before.

    21. SPSpeaker12:37

        Right, right.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher12:38

        Yeah. You're not catching them the first time they've ever done it.

12. 12:40 – 14:08

    The book title explained: ‘The Next Conversation’ can change everything

    1. SPSpeaker12:40

       Well, listen, before we wrap up with our three questions, with these fast action three questions, but before we do that, the book is called The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More. You guys definitely need to buy a copy of this. I bought copies for all my clients, and, uh, it was fun to get their response. In fact, you commented, Jefferson, when you saw us dishing them out.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher13:03

       I did. Yeah. Thank you very much.

    3. SPSpeaker13:04

       Yeah, happy to do it. But, but I just know it's gonna be so helpful to them. But why did you call it The Next Conversation?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher13:11

       People often say the wrong thing in the first conversation.

    5. SPSpeaker13:15

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker13:15

       So true.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher13:15

       We, we tend as humans to get it wrong. [laughs] We, we tend to muck it up, and it's the next conversation that truly has the power to change everything. If you and that other person, everything always goes wrong, you have... You say the wrong thing, you can change everything by simply what you decide to say next. And the same thing applies with wherever you want to be in your life. The truth of it is, Michael, if people watch my videos, not to change what's happened in the past, they watch the videos to change what they say next, and it's not the conversation in the past they're trying to fix, it's the next one. And that's why I named it The Next Conversation, that they, they can use these tools, these tips for handling the next conversation, which is gonna make their life a lot better and exchange, improve their relationships.

13. 14:08 – 16:24

    Rapid-fire wrap-up: balancing yes/no, defining ‘winning,’ and daily rituals

    1. SPSpeaker14:08

       For you, what's your biggest obstacle, especially in this time of busyness, to, uh, getting the double win?

    2. JFJefferson Fisher14:15

       Oh, like a work/life balance type of thing?

    3. SPSpeaker14:18

       Yeah.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher14:18

       Um, is making sure my yeses and nos are balanced. Like, I, I see it as like a, a seesaw.

    5. SPSpeaker14:25

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher14:25

       And so that to me is my success with my life, my family, my work, as a dad, as a husband, and I need to make sure my yeses and my nos are balanced. If I have too many yeses, something else is gonna suffer. I have too many nos, something else is gonna suffer. So it's... That doesn't mean I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna count them. It's, it's not quantitative in some way. It's maybe it's a very big yes, and that means I have to have small nos. And so there's, uh, that's how I see it in my brain.

    7. SPSpeaker14:56

       Love it.

    8. SPSpeaker14:56

       Great.

    9. SPSpeaker14:56

       I don't think we've ever had anybody share that.

    10. SPSpeaker14:58

        We haven't.

    11. SPSpeaker14:58

        But that's, that sounds great.

    12. SPSpeaker14:59

        Yeah. That's great. Okay, next question. How do you know when you are winning at work and succeeding at life?

    13. JFJefferson Fisher15:07

        When you can walk in and you smile naturally. [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker15:10

        Yeah.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher15:10

        Uh, when you just, you feel like you walk in and you naturally feel enthusiastic. It's not even maybe so much enthusiastic, but there's nothing that you feel like you are dreading. I, I compare it to running with a parachute on.

    16. SPSpeaker15:25

        Mm.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher15:25

        Okay? Are... You feel like you have the wind in your face and you're really running and going and pursuing, or do you feel like you're dragging?

    18. SPSpeaker15:32

        Okay, final question. What's one ritual or routine that helps you do what you do?

    19. JFJefferson Fisher15:36

        Oh, daily prayer. Um, aside from that, I, I really try to do my workouts and my breathing. So it's... I, I didn't learn until more recently in life, certainly more recently than I wished, how much our body plays a fact in our stress-

    20. SPSpeaker15:58

        Mm

    21. JFJefferson Fisher15:58

        ... and our anxiety and how that impacts our outlook on things. And so if I can get my body moving, drinking more water, and really focus on my breathing, 'cause I didn't notice later that I, I'll hold my breath when I'm stressed.

    22. SPSpeaker16:13

        Yeah.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher16:13

        And that, that definitely weighs. I mean, it's like you're truly suffocating. So r- realizing that I need to work on my breath, there's, uh, that's a great ritual.

14. 16:24 – 17:10

    Home workout solution: Tonal, small-town logistics, and consistency

    1. SPSpeaker16:24

       What is your go-to workout?

    2. JFJefferson Fisher16:26

       Oh, so I use this thing called a Tonal.

    3. SPSpeaker16:29

       Yeah.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher16:29

       Uh, it's like, it's... Oh my gosh.

    5. SPSpeaker16:30

       The thing that hangs-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher16:31

       Yeah. It's-

    7. SPSpeaker16:31

       ... on the wall and has all the little stuff on it?

    8. JFJefferson Fisher16:33

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker16:33

       Yeah.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher16:33

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a... I mean, remember, small town, we have one gym. Um-

    11. SPSpeaker16:38

        [laughs]

    12. JFJefferson Fisher16:38

        ... and the, the weights in that gym are s- are so rusted. Um, and-

    13. SPSpeaker16:43

        [laughs]

    14. JFJefferson Fisher16:43

        ... it's, everybody's there, it's fine. It just, it's, it's one of those things where it's like I need to drive there, make sure I'm back in time for the kids. We have early morning, blah, blah, blah. This Tonal's awesome, and, uh, I've had more progress on that than anything. And you can just do it right there in your, in your home, so I'm, I'm a big fan.

    15. SPSpeaker17:02

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker17:02

        If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you wanna see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there

Episode duration: 17:11