How Strong Communicators Handle Difficult Talks

1. 0:00 – 2:01

   Identifying the conversation you’re avoiding and why it matters

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      If you can, stop where you are right now and ask yourself the question, "Do I have a conversation coming up that I am stressed about, worried about, that's weighing on me?" If that's you, then this is your episode. I'm gonna walk you through it. We're going to talk all about how to prepare for hard conversations, the stressful conversations, the ones that put that knot in your stomach as soon as you start thinking about it. I gotcha. By the end of this episode, you're gonna feel a million times better. You ready? Let's go. [upbeat music] Welcome to The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. Wherever you are listening, if you would, please press subscribe or heart or like or leave a comment. It helps me more than you know. And in exchange, my promise is to you to make you a better communicator. If you subscribe and you listen to these episodes, it's gonna make you a better communicator, and in exchange, you're gonna have much better relationships and a better life, and that's a very positive thing. Thank you so much. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth because the products they make are top-notch everything. Uh, in fact, their whole website is stuff that I scroll through and I'm like, "Ooh, I want this. Ooh, I want that." That's the kind of website it is. So I encourage you to go check it out. What do they make? Anything that's cozy is the best way to put it. Anything that feels good. It's from bedsheets to bath towels to bath sheets to the pants that I'm wearing right now. Everything that is cozy. So if you're like me and you're going into these holidays and it's, all of a sudden, man, your house is a whole lot colder. It's, "I don't really wanna put on jeans that look nice when I'm heading to the grocery store. I want some stretchy pants." Cozy Earth is where you need to be looking. Go to cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for up to 40% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for up to 40% off. And now, let's get into the episode. So many times I have people that are reaching out to me and saying, "Hey, I am preparing for this conversation that I have at work, at the office. I have this interview.

2. 2:01 – 3:02

   Why nervousness is a positive signal—not a weakness

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:01

      I need to fire an employee. I need to try and ask for a raise. I have to have this hard conversation with my spouse or my child," or, or whatever it is. And every time, deep down, it's a plea for help, of knowing, "I am afraid." That's, that's what I hear. It's, it's fear. It's fear from everyone saying, "I, I'm nervous about this." Newsflash: I get nervous about conversations, too. If you're not getting nervous ... Let me just put that disclaimer out there. If you're not feeling nervous about a conversation, then you don't care about the conversation. So I want you to understand that when you feel nervous and you're going, "How, why do I, why do I have this pit in my stomach?" Take that as joy. Count it as joy that you actually care about what you're going to say. You care about the person. You care about that conversation. If you didn't care, you wouldn't really worry at all about your words. You wouldn't worry about their interaction or the reaction from them. So understand, when you have that nervous pit in your, in your stomach there, we're gonna use that as good. All right? We're gonna use that as good, and we're gonna talk about that in this episode. So how do you best prepare

3. 3:02 – 5:04

   Step 1: Set a clear goal before emotions take over

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:02

      for this conversation? And I say this conversation because I'm talking to you. We're talking about the very conversation you know that you need to be having that is weighing on you, that you are avoiding, that every time you think about it, it keeps you up at night. It, it, you, you lose track of what you're doing. All of a sudden, your, your thoughts go out of focus because you're so worried about this conversation. This is the conversation we're gonna be talking about. Here's how I want you to start preparing for it. You ready? Number one: name your goal before your emotions do. Set your goal for what you want the conversation to be and how you want it to turn out before your emotions do. If you go into a conversation and you don't have a goal, you are losing. And I don't say that in terms of a win-loss type of situation. I'm saying you are setting yourself up for failure if you don't have a goal. That is like me saying, "Hey, you wanna jump in the car with me real quick?" And you go, "Okay, where are we going?" I'm like, "I have no clue. No idea, but I'm gonna spend 45 minutes of us just kinda wandering around until I decide where I might wanna park." You go, "You're, you're crazy." If I, if I wanna go on a flight and you say, "Where are you going?" I go, "I don't, you know what? I don't really know." It wouldn't make sense. You need to have a destination. You have to have a destination for what is the end result. So you start backwards. How do you prepare for a difficult, stressful conversation? You start at the very end of it. All right? You start at the very end. What do I want them to know? So if you ha- if you can right now, I want you to get a piece of paper out, maybe a, a Word document, a Google document, whatever it is, and I want you to write down "Goal," and then put a colon. What is my goal for this conversation? If you don't know the goal, you're lost. You're lost, because the other person's gonna be looking to you of, "Where are we going? Where, what is, what do you want?" Ever had anybody say, "What's your point? Where are you going with this?" That's exactly what it is, because you're

4. 5:04 – 7:35

   Choose goals you can control (and avoid the common traps)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:04

      not telling them, you're not informing them of your destination, and that leaves both of you absolutely clueless. When you write down your goal, meaning, "I want them to hear me. I want them to understand me. I want them to do this," or, "I need to feel this," it's gonna help clarify what your standard is. If w- your goal is for them to change their mind, that's gonna be very difficult. If your goal is for them to apologize to you, nah, that's probably the wrong goal. It is, has to be some- the goal has to be something that you can control. You can't control if they're going to apologize or say that you're right or that everything they believe in is wrong. You have to set a goal that you can control, that has to do with you understanding what's happening, you feeling more like you have a better, solid footing in the conversation, you getting to say the thing that you've always wanted to say. See, these are words that are coming from you, not what you're expecting them to say. Having a goal is so critical. It sounds basic. It is basic. It is extremely difficult to have the right goal. What happens a lot of the time is you have something in your head about how the conversation should go, and then you get into the conversation and you realize, "Wait, this isn't happening." Have you ever been into a conversation and you realize, "Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. This isn't how it's supposed to happen. Th- you're s- you were... I was gonna say this, and then you were supposed to apologize, 'cause that's, that's how I rehearsed it in my head. This is where you say how wrong you are, how y- how you finally are seeing the light." That's never going to happen. If it does, congratulations. Go get a lottery ticket, because that's gonna be extremely rare. Conversations rarely go how they go in your head. That's just not the way the world works. So you need to write down your goal. What do you want from them? What do you want for you? Basic goal. A very basic goal. Maybe it's, "I want to feel heard on this issue. I need to understand where they're coming from. I need to let them go from the company. I need to inform them that this is their last day." Whatever it is, you need to have a goal and make that the bright line header of your true north. Without it, y- you might as well not have the conversation

5. 7:35 – 8:07

   Step 2: Regulate your body more than rehearsing your script

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:35

      at all. You with me? Number two: put the emphasis on regulating your body more than rehearsing your words. In fact, I would go on to tell you that rehearsing your lines is damaging. Let me tell you why. I see so many times in the legal field, and there's a lot of attorneys, trial attorneys who might be listening right now, nodding their head. Good attorneys don't stick to line-by-line questions. They keep it flexible.

6. 8:07 – 12:41

   Use bullet-point thinking: stay flexible and listen in real time

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:07

      So what does that look like? Let's say I have a pen and paper, all right? Rather than writing and scripting out every single one of my questions that I wanna ask a witness, instead I'm gonna put it in bullet points. I'm... My... The first bullet point might be the store. It might be, um, the money exchange. It might be, um, the trip. Like, things that are signposts to me that allow me to ask questions and be flexible. 'Cause let me tell you the downside of rehearsing and knowing my questions ahead of time, is that I might read a question and wait for the answer, except I typically don't wait for the answer. I'm starting to look at the next question, and I'm worried about what I'm going to ask more than I'm actually listening. So you know a, a new attorney, a green attorney from a more veteran buy, if they're going, "And did you arrive at the school that day?" And they're not even really listening to the answer. Somebody could be giving a very good answer that's giving them lots of information, but they're not listening 'cause they're just focused on the next question. So you miss things. That's the point. You miss things. If you are rehearsing your lines, you're going to miss things, because you're more focused on you performing well, of you doing well. "Oh, wait, no, no. That's not how I wanted to say it." Uh, people who teach public speaking, if you rehearse your talk, you're gonna be much more concerned about the exact wording and putting your placement, uh, in making it almost so manufactured that it doesn't feel genuine and it doesn't feel real, and the other person's not gonna feel it. Versus you just know generally where the message needs to be, you know your goal, you know your purpose and why you're there, and you're gonna trust everything's gonna flow out of that, and that's where you feel the connection from people. So put the emphasis on regulating your body. Then we can worry about, is, is there a certain type of phrase that you wanna make sure and use? Because if you don't have your body controlled, if you are not using your breath and you are not lowering your shoulders, and you are making sure your jaw is not... Is your jaw tight right now? Are... Do you have tightness in your ears and in your cheeks, in your forehead and... Uh, what about your shoulders and your hands? Are they, they tense? Is your, is your core tight? Are, are you, your shoulders drooped over? What's your body position like? So you have to make sure you take temperature of that. If you don't have your body controlled, good luck trying to focus everything else, because your body's tied to those emotions. And if you're not breathing, it doesn't matter what kind of technique I could teach you, what words I could give you. None of it's gonna work because it's gonna come out in a way that you don't want. It's gonna come out defensive because your body's feeling defensive, 'cause your body is feeling flooded in that moment. So control what you can control. How do I want you to prepare for this hard conversation? Regulate your body. Put the focus on that. Before we keep going, I wanna take a second to tell you about Gusto. Now, many of you, like myself, are business owners. I have a law firm. I have this media side of, uh, the podcasting. I, I've owned a restaurant, a coffee shop. I've done all kinds of things, and let me tell you one thing that is not fun as a business owner that is extremely stressful, and that is payroll. Because you want, I know, especially small bus- businesses, you want to take care of your people. You want to not only offer a, a great wage, you want to make sure that paperwork is smooth. Taxes are difficult. Like, for anybody who's never owned a business, you go, "How do I pay people?" Gusto, all right, has been my saving grace long before they sponsored this podcast right now. All right? I've, I've used them for probably seven years. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one. It's remote-friendly and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. It has been such a help to me in the way that it makes it easy to onboard people. It takes care of taxes for... And, and especially if you have people that are remote and working in other states, it will sign all that stuff up for you for each state entity, keep it all in one dashboard. You can have as many pay... unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price, and it's, it really is easy. So you can go try Gusto today at gusto.com/jefferson and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/jefferson. One more time, gusto.com/jefferson.

7. 12:41 – 14:12

   Map your physical stress responses so they don’t surprise you

   1. JFJefferson Fisher12:41

      I can promise you, I've used them for so many years, and I have... currently right now I have four businesses that do payroll through them, and I would not look at anybody else. Go to Gusto. All right. Now, back to the episode. Preparing for this conversation, I want you to think in your mind, think in your mind what are... I- imagine the conversation happening in real time, the person sitting across from you. You're, you're at the... You're in the environment that you're gonna have the conversation with. How does that feel? How does that feel to you? What emotions are coming up? Prepare for them now. Prepare for them now. So underneath wherever you're writing, underneath goal, I want you to write "my responses." I'm not talking about words, I'm talking about your physical body responses. What's gonna be happening to you in that moment? You need to know. Do you get tightness in your jaw? For me, it's tightness in my shoulders right here, in the traps. I, I get, I get really tight when I, when I know I'm tense because I have to like constantly relax them. It's my body preparing. I have to constantly react them. I have to constantly relax them. So in my responses, say what's happening to you. Jaw gets tight, fists clench, shoulders tense. I had somebody who say, "My toes. My toes like to, uh, scrunch up." [chuckles] If you n- if that's you, write that down too. You need to know what's happening. Why? So that you will not be surprised when it's happening. It's preparing for every part of

8. 14:12 – 15:43

   Step 3: Rehearse only the opening line to set the tone

   1. JFJefferson Fisher14:12

      the conversation. Conversations are not just words. They are the emotions and the physical elements in the room. All right? It is, it is not just emotion. It is just as physical as can be because they're gonna read your body language more than they're going to listen to your words. So when it comes to preparing for this hard conversation, focus on regulating your body first before we start worrying about your words. Cool? Number three, while we're talking about words, if you're going to rehearse anything, I want you to rehearse your opening line. That's it. Know your opening line. That's it. Whenever you start to think of how it's gonna play out five minutes into the conversation, that's no way that's gonna happen. If you can get out your opening line really well, that's really the only thing you can control at the nis- at the start of the conversation. Everything else is gonna be what it's going to be, and it's all gonna be on you and your emotions. Now, I say start with your opening line because that sets the tone for the conversation. That in... to my, in my opinion, is absolutely worth rehearsing, that you feel really comfortable with the first words that come out of your mouth. I'd say that 98% of the time, the direction of the conversation is set by the tone and in the first words that you share. So if I wanna have a hard conversation with you, I'm going to put a lot of emphasis in my mind of remembering rehearsing my... the opening, what I want to begin with. So

9. 15:43 – 17:14

   Practical opening-line templates: clarity, permission, and reduced time pressure

   1. JFJefferson Fisher15:43

      I want you to write down underneath my responses, "my opening." My opening. Write down your opening sentence to this person. Imagine yourself in the context and get really comfortable with the opening sentence. What I like to open with, and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna throw out some responses that, that might feel n- natural to you, all right? Is saying, "I'm gonna share something that's really important to me. I'd like to, to share something that's very important to me." Something as simple as that. If you wanna add to it, "I wanna share something that's really important to me, and I know it's not gonna be perfect." Or you can even ask, "And is it okay with you if I, if I don't say everything perfectly? This is gonna be a difficult conversation, but I'm gonna be right here with you through the end. This is a conversation that I know it's not gonna be resolved now, and I'm gonna be in this conversation over the next month for however long it takes." Sometimes put... not putting a timeframe on conversation is very helpful. Instead of saying, "We need to have a conversation right now and expect a decision," "This is a conversation we're gonna have over the next week, over the next month." Whatever it is. When you release the time, it's like the pressure valve goes off. You're releasing the pressure of the tense moment of it. Find your opening line. Maybe it's you needing to reveal some stuff, like, "I'm struggling with

10. 17:14 – 19:48

    Use appropriate vulnerability: name the fear and invite partnership

    1. JFJefferson Fisher17:14

       some thoughts and I really want your help. I'm stressed about this conversation because it matters so much to me." I'd encourage you to actually reveal a little bit about what's happening inside. Reveal the nerves. Reveal the imperfect. Reveal the struggle. Believe it or not, it's gonna help them relate to you more than you could ever dream. If you sit with them and say, "This is a conversation I've been dreading to have, and I hope that together we can get through this in a way that's going to make a big difference. This is a conversation I've been dreading to have and I, I really need your help. There's something I, I wanna share with you and I, I know I'm, it... I'm not gonna get it out perfectly. Are you willing to just be here with me?" Be willing to reveal a little bit. Just, I'm not saying a lot, but if your opening line can be just a little bit vulnerable with the inner emotions, what that's gonna do is break so much ice to actually be real, to talk to one another, all right? How do we prepare for that difficult conversation, that stressful conversation? Instead of that knot in your stomach, we're gonna move some energy. You do that by writing down what we just talked about. So number one, know your goal. Number two, know your responses, your body, what's happening. That way you're not gonna get caught off by it in the moment. And number three, rehearse your opening line. Know your opening line because that you can at least control. And additional bonus, if you can, reveal a little bit of the struggle. What are you struggling with yourself? Like if you were just gonna talk to me and say, um, you know, "Jefferson, I wanna have this hard conversation and I'm worried about it 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm afraid they're not going to... I'm afraid..." Reveal that. Whatever that is, I'm afraid that X. Maybe you need to write that down too. I'm afraid that... And use that fear and put it at the beginning of the conversation. I need to share something important with you and I'm, I'm afraid that if I do, this is gonna happen. You hear how all of a sudden you've got that out in the open. You're not, you're not, you're not carrying that inside. It's not unspoken. You've now said it and now they can understand, okay, this is, this is serious and I'm gonna have this conversation with you. All right? I'm proud of you. I want to encourage you that this is... Not everybody

11. 19:48 – 21:11

    Closing mindset: there’s no perfect hard conversation—do the homework

    1. JFJefferson Fisher19:48

       does this. Let me tell you, nobody does it super well. Even the conversations I need to have, yeah, do I make mistakes? Yeah, but that's what makes me human. There's no such thing as a perfect, stressful, hard, difficult conversation gone well. The best thing you can do is find the reason within yourself why is it difficult? When I say difficult conversation, what makes it difficult? Find that answer. Be more focused on that answer. If you can just remove the difficulty, then it's just a conversation. Then it's not a difficult one. It's just a conversation. And sometimes what makes it difficult is not the other person, it's me. Do the homework, prepare for it, plan for it, and you will not be surprised. And when you eliminate the surprises, you reduce the anxiety and all of a sudden what you thought was so difficult really just becomes another conversation, all right? You got this? If you can, encourage. I wanna not only encourage you, but whenever you do have that conversation, will you email me? I- you can go, um, hello@jeffersonfisher.com. I, I would love to hear how that conversation went and get any kind of feedback because I, I just wanna encourage you and speak a lot of good into your life, all right? As always, you can try that and follow me.

Episode duration: 21:12