How to Handle a Partner Who Won’t Listen | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 1:27

   The core problem: “You’re too sensitive” and feeling unheard in marriage

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      I feel like we should dig into some examples of certain relationships and see like how, how we can help people communicate better. I feel like-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:10

      I love it

   3. SPSpeaker0:10

      ... yeah. I feel like for me, I'm currently in a situation right now, I even got into something with my husband this morning.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:20

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker0:20

      And for this kind of a situation, when you're sort of at like a stalemate, and when you just don't feel like someone is hearing you-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher0:29

      Mm-hmm

   7. SPSpeaker0:29

      ... I, I will go to like, "I think the way that you just talked to me hurt my feelings. Like that made me upset." And then I think that will- he will immediately say something like, "I'm just stating a fact. Um, you're just too sensitive."

   8. JFJefferson Fisher0:46

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SPSpeaker0:47

      And we're always at this kind of impasse, and I feel like so many people can be at similar places. Like we usually communicate well, but it ends up coming down to me being too sensitive, and then him being kind of too harsh and like having a tone.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher1:03

       [laughs]

   11. SPSpeaker1:04

       So [laughs] how do you deal with someone that you f- that you feel like is not understanding your feelings in that moment?

   12. JFJefferson Fisher1:16

       Depends if it's like a relationship.

   13. SPSpeaker1:19

       Yes.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher1:19

       Different, different way to handle it in a marriage.

   15. SPSpeaker1:20

       Right.

   16. JFJefferson Fisher1:21

       Then-

   17. SPSpeaker1:21

       Like I know this is broad, and sort of like a broad thing to start with.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher1:24

       Yeah. So here's some things that, that come to mind.

   19. SPSpeaker1:26

       Yeah.

2. 1:27 – 1:40

   Avoid the “you” trap: stop accusing and stop debating whether they’re listening

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:27

      You never wanna begin with you. Like, "You're not listening to me."

   2. SPSpeaker1:30

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:30

      Because it's, you're now gonna just be in a fight about whether or not this person is or is not listening.

   4. SPSpeaker1:35

      Right.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:36

      And you're gonna go off on a rabbit trail, and that's not gonna be productive.

   6. SPSpeaker1:40

      Contention.

3. 1:40 – 3:12

   Use “distance” language and metaphors to describe disconnection without blame

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:40

      One thing you can do to keep somebody from getting defensive in that moment is to talk about distances. I do this a lot when I feel like there is something unspoken between the two of us.

   2. SPSpeaker1:53

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:53

      So let's say you and I are together, and something is off. Instead of me saying, "What's wrong with you?"

   4. SPSpeaker1:59

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:59

      Or, "You're not listening to me," or even, "I feel like you're not listening to me."

   6. SPSpeaker2:03

      Right. I feel like you're upset with me, or I feel like-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher2:05

      Exactly

   8. SPSpeaker2:05

      ... you're annoyed with me.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher2:06

      Yeah.

   10. SPSpeaker2:06

       Yeah.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher2:06

       'Cause now, now I just took something and threw it on you.

   12. SPSpeaker2:09

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher2:09

       And said, "Do something with it."

   14. SPSpeaker2:10

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher2:11

       I, I'm, I'm not trying to be helpful at all. But distances are a way of separating it, when I say, "You feel far from me right now."

   16. SPSpeaker2:18

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher2:18

       Or, "I feel like we're a mile apart," or, "I don't feel close to you in this moment." Like little ways that you use distances-

   18. SPSpeaker2:26

       Mm-hmm

   19. JFJefferson Fisher2:26

       ... that are really good at describing without having to be very specific.

   20. SPSpeaker2:32

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher2:33

       I'm not blaming it.

   22. SPSpeaker2:34

       Without-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher2:35

       I'm not, I'm not saying-

   24. SPSpeaker2:35

       ... putting it on someone or making them feel like you're putting it on them

   25. JFJefferson Fisher2:39

       ... ex- exactly.

   26. SPSpeaker2:40

       Yeah.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher2:40

       So even if we're sitting in a room and we're talking, and I can tell you're not listening, I might say, "I feel like I'm a million miles away from you-

   28. SPSpeaker2:47

       Mm-hmm

   29. JFJefferson Fisher2:47

       ... right now."

   30. SPSpeaker2:48

       Mm-hmm.
4. 3:12 – 3:53

   Lead with “I need your help” to bring a partner back into the conversation

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:12

      ... when you do that. Now, you might say something that would be... Th- this might also be beneficial, is when you lead with the phrase, "I need your help," people who love you will tune in.

   2. SPSpeaker3:27

      Uh-huh.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:28

      People who are acquaintances don't really care.

   4. SPSpeaker3:30

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

      But if you're in a relationship with them, they go, "Okay." If you say, "I need your help."

   6. SPSpeaker3:35

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher3:37

      I'm talking, and right now I feel like I'm the only one, part of this conversation.

   8. SPSpeaker3:43

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher3:43

      Now, see, I am not putting anything on you. I haven't said you. I haven't said anything about you or what you're doing wrong.

   10. SPSpeaker3:49

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher3:49

       Because they may not be doing anything wrong. It could be something that is perception.

   12. SPSpeaker3:53

       Completely.

5. 3:53 – 5:12

   When dismissed, don’t self-doubt—ask for what’s missing instead

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:53

      Now, if he says, "You're being sensitive right now."

   2. SPSpeaker3:57

      Uh-huh.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:57

      That's not helpful, right?

   4. SPSpeaker3:58

      No.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher3:58

      Because it... You, you then are gonna get defensive-

   6. SPSpeaker4:01

      Completely

   7. JFJefferson Fisher4:01

      ... with that. And so then it just becomes a, a cycle, and then it starts to spin and spiral, and then you-

   8. SPSpeaker4:06

      Yeah

   9. JFJefferson Fisher4:07

      ... you fight over everything.

   10. SPSpeaker4:07

       Or I question. Yeah, I start to question, am I too sensitive, or is he being like a jerk? You know? And then I start to question my own sense of knowing myself, you know, and that is not productive. Does that make sense?

   11. JFJefferson Fisher4:24

       It does make sense.

   12. SPSpeaker4:24

       Yeah.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

       And what I don't want you to do in that situation is start to go, "Is it me? Am I the one that's sensitive?"

   14. SPSpeaker4:32

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher4:33

       You, you already voiced what you were feeling.

   16. SPSpeaker4:34

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher4:35

       He actually didn't address it. He just kind of took it and threw it right back at you.

   18. SPSpeaker4:40

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher4:40

       He didn't, he didn't try to do anything with that. Now, a better way to do it-

   20. SPSpeaker4:44

       Mm-hmm

   21. JFJefferson Fisher4:44

       ... from his point of view, is to say, "Okay, what am I missing?"

   22. SPSpeaker4:48

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher4:48

       So if, let's say that roles are reversed and somebody's talking to you, you say, "What am I missing?"

   24. SPSpeaker4:52

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher4:53

       People will always find a way to help fill in the gaps. Or, "I need your help. What am I, what am I missing?"

   26. SPSpeaker4:58

       Completely.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher4:59

       "What am I not hearing right now?"

   28. SPSpeaker5:01

       Right.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher5:01

       Instead of the, "Are, are you not listening to me? I, excuse me, I, I don't even feel... Am I talking to myself?"

   30. SPSpeaker5:05

       Right.
6. 5:12 – 7:19

   Tone is meaning: why “just listen to my words” is lazy communication

   1. SPSpeaker5:12

      So are you... 'Cause like [laughs] I, I believe tone is super important.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher5:17

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker5:17

      And my husband sometimes is just like, and this is not gonna be all about my husband and I, but is always just like, "Forget the tone. Just like listen to what it is I'm saying." And I'm just like, "No, I can't forget the tone."

   4. JFJefferson Fisher5:29

      Yeah, I don't agree with that.

   5. SPSpeaker5:30

      Like, no. Okay, thank you. Like, I, I... A- and, and he, he's r- started to realize that as he's gotten more mature, and like we've, has done some work, but-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher5:41

      Yeah

   7. SPSpeaker5:42

      ... um, but yeah, I do think that tone can go a really, really long way, and I feel like a lot of us are-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher5:47

      Yeah

   9. SPSpeaker5:47

      ... are missing that. We can ask the same question and change our tone, and it will be so much more productive.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher5:53

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker5:53

       Yeah.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher5:53

       Yeah. To, to me, when somebody... Like that kind of thinking is, it's lazy communicating.

   13. SPSpeaker6:01

       Mm-hmm

   14. JFJefferson Fisher6:02

       It's just not wanting to put in the effort-

   15. SPSpeaker6:04

       Completely

   16. JFJefferson Fisher6:04

       ... of all you have to do is change the tone of your voice.

   17. SPSpeaker6:07

       Right.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher6:08

       If you're not willing to put in that much effort in the, into the conversation-

   19. SPSpeaker6:13

       Right

   20. JFJefferson Fisher6:13

       ... ah, it makes a big difference.

   21. SPSpeaker6:14

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher6:14

       So when, if I were to just say, "Okay." There's a lot of different ways I could say that.

   23. SPSpeaker6:21

       [laughs]

   24. JFJefferson Fisher6:21

       "Okay."

   25. SPSpeaker6:22

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JFJefferson Fisher6:22

       Or somebody's done something wrong and you're like, "Okay."

   27. SPSpeaker6:24

       Mm.

   28. JFJefferson Fisher6:24

       Versus, "Uh, okay." Like-

   29. SPSpeaker6:25

       Right

   30. JFJefferson Fisher6:26

       ... just the tone. It's still the same word. In every different one I have expressed a different-
7. 7:19 – 8:46

   Pre-conversation self-regulation: say “I can tell…” and claim the feeling

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:19

      So let's say you, you're feeling a certain way, whether it's you're feeling nervous, you feel overwhelmed, you're afraid somebody's gonna be disappointed, whatever it is.

   2. SPSpeaker7:28

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher7:29

      It's much better to state that out loud before you actually have that conversation.

   4. SPSpeaker7:33

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher7:34

      And you can do that by using the phrase, "I can tell." I can tell I'm feeling nervous about this.

   6. SPSpeaker7:39

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher7:40

      I can tell I'm really stressed about this conversation. Anytime you say that, or I can tell I'm getting defensive.

   8. SPSpeaker7:46

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher7:46

      I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. Things that it, you're... What I say is when you claim it, you control it.

   10. SPSpeaker7:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher7:52

       So when you say it out loud, it's different than acting upon it. So let's say you say something to me and I feel defensive.

   12. SPSpeaker7:59

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher8:00

       Now, I can choose to be defensive.

   14. SPSpeaker8:02

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher8:03

       Um, and that would, me being, raising my voice and going, "Me? No, no, no. You, you think that I..."

   16. SPSpeaker8:08

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher8:08

       That's me acting on defensiveness. Versus you saying something and I respond, "I can tell that's making me defensive."

   18. SPSpeaker8:15

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher8:16

       Like, that's me taking it and putting it on the table.

   20. SPSpeaker8:19

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher8:20

       And now we can talk about it-

   22. SPSpeaker8:21

       Right

   23. JFJefferson Fisher8:21

       ... without me becoming defensive.

   24. SPSpeaker8:23

       Angry.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher8:24

       Yeah. And that, that has a lot more control. And people who do that effectively show really high emotional intelligence.

   26. SPSpeaker8:31

       Interesting. So even if you don't like the feeling that you're having, you still say the feeling out loud to them.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher8:38

       Yes, yes.

   28. SPSpeaker8:39

       Like, "This is making me-

   29. JFJefferson Fisher8:41

       Mm-hmm

   30. SPSpeaker8:41

       ... really angry right now."
8. 8:46 – 11:31

   Detach from blame: avoid “you make me” and drop “always/never” extremes

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:46

      Yes. So it's never you.

   2. SPSpeaker8:46

      It's never you.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher8:47

      That's gonna make it personal.

   4. SPSpeaker8:48

      Uh-huh.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher8:48

      Instead, detach it. Make it a third person.

   6. SPSpeaker8:51

      Uh-huh.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher8:51

      This conversation, that issue, that comment, that answer, any of that, it, it's a way of detaching it from the person.

   8. SPSpeaker8:58

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher8:59

      And it's never you make me-

   10. SPSpeaker9:01

       That-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher9:01

       ... 'cause, 'cause that's, that's an issue, right?

   12. SPSpeaker9:03

       Right, and then you're generalizing it, and then it's like all of a sudden-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher9:06

       You got it

   14. SPSpeaker9:07

       ... the fight is about how often this happens versus how not often this happens.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher9:11

       Yes, that's the person-

   16. SPSpeaker9:11

       Yeah

   17. JFJefferson Fisher9:11

       ... who says you always or you never.

   18. SPSpeaker9:13

       Ah.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher9:13

       When-

   20. SPSpeaker9:14

       I, I-

   21. JFJefferson Fisher9:14

       Yes

   22. SPSpeaker9:14

       ... do that all the time.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher9:16

       It's, it's common. But when people go to extremes, all you've done is insert another argument about whether you always or never do something.

   24. SPSpeaker9:23

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher9:23

       Doesn't matter what the topic is now. It's only about I, that's not true. Don't you remember when I did... And there it goes.

   26. SPSpeaker9:29

       It's, I, that is, I'm completely guilty of that, and then I wanna score, and then I'm, like, looking for him-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher9:35

       Yeah

   28. SPSpeaker9:35

       ... for, like, a grade of how, how much more I do than don't do.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher9:41

       Oh, yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker9:41

       You know?
9. 11:31 – 13:09

   Why we “see red”: fight-or-flight in disagreement and the need to slow down

   1. JFJefferson Fisher11:31

      Well, that's very natural.

   2. SPSpeaker11:32

      Yeah.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher11:32

      It's, it's, it's, it's-

   4. SPSpeaker11:33

      Does that happen to you?

   5. JFJefferson Fisher11:34

      It happens to everybody.

   6. SPSpeaker11:35

      [laughs]

   7. JFJefferson Fisher11:35

      It's part of our biology. I mean, that's just, any, anytime we have the presence of a conflicting opinion-

   8. SPSpeaker11:41

      Mm-hmm

   9. JFJefferson Fisher11:42

      ... we feel threatened.

   10. SPSpeaker11:42

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher11:43

       So we kick in the fight or flight.

   12. SPSpeaker11:44

       Right.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher11:45

       Naturally, because our body says something is trying to undermine me, trying to go against my authority, what I think should happen-

   14. SPSpeaker11:53

       Mm-hmm

   15. JFJefferson Fisher11:53

       ... 'cause I'm try, trying to control my environment.

   16. SPSpeaker11:55

       Right.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher11:55

       And when somebody says something even I don't like, that doesn't agree with me, it's fight or flight.

   18. SPSpeaker12:00

       Right.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher12:00

       And you will either try and fight it, meaning you'll say a hurtful word-

   20. SPSpeaker12:04

       Mm-hmm

   21. JFJefferson Fisher12:04

       ... or say something to cut-

   22. SPSpeaker12:05

       Mm-hmm

   23. JFJefferson Fisher12:05

       ... and defeat them.

   24. SPSpeaker12:06

       Mm-hmm

   25. JFJefferson Fisher12:07

       It's like trying to throw a rock at him. Same thing

   26. SPSpeaker12:09

       Or just defend yourself at-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher12:11

       Yes

   28. SPSpeaker12:11

       ... which you don't even really need to do

   29. JFJefferson Fisher12:13

       Right. Or you, you run from it.

   30. SPSpeaker12:16

       Mm-hmm.
10. 13:09 – 15:21

    Breath as the first word: control the pace and buy time to respond well

    1. JFJefferson Fisher13:09

       So way to do that, to give yourself that time is to breathe.

    2. SPSpeaker13:15

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher13:15

       I teach that you let your word, let, let your breath be the first word that you say.

    4. SPSpeaker13:21

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher13:21

       So where your first word would be, the, which typically that you don't- where that's gonna be instead of you just wanna catch what they said and throw it right back-

    6. SPSpeaker13:29

       Mm-hmm

    7. JFJefferson Fisher13:29

       ... you breathe.

    8. SPSpeaker13:31

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher13:32

       And that's going to allow you to have more control. You'll sound more in control.

    10. SPSpeaker13:37

        Yeah.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher13:38

        Like if, if somebody was to say something ugly to you, really high, they're just yelling at you and rather than yelling right back, you just gave it seven, you give it five seconds to just breathing.

    12. SPSpeaker13:51

        Uh-huh.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher13:51

        Like who sounds more in control?

    14. SPSpeaker13:53

        No, that's so true

    15. JFJefferson Fisher13:53

        Without you even saying anything.

    16. SPSpeaker13:54

        It's so true.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher13:54

        It's you.

    18. SPSpeaker13:55

        Yeah.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher13:55

        And the person who seems like what they're about to say is more measured, more reasonable-

    20. SPSpeaker14:00

        Mm-hmm

    21. JFJefferson Fisher14:01

        ... a- more thoughtful.

    22. SPSpeaker14:03

        Right

    23. JFJefferson Fisher14:03

        It's going to be the person that is slowing it down.

    24. SPSpeaker14:05

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher14:05

        So if you want to have control over your conversations, which is rule number one in the book-

    26. SPSpeaker14:10

        Mm-hmm

    27. JFJefferson Fisher14:10

        ... is that you, you sh- control the pace.

    28. SPSpeaker14:13

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher14:13

        Meaning just because you said something does not mean I have to respond.

    30. SPSpeaker14:17

        Right.
11. 15:21 – 18:48

    Respecting boundaries and breaks: walking away isn’t abandonment

    1. SPSpeaker15:21

       Right. Well, w- I've had to do that, and we've had to get through that because we, Timmy and I met when we got engaged right after my dad passed away.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher15:32

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker15:32

       And the beginning of our relationship was rocky. I was like, you know, emotionally just all over-

    4. JFJefferson Fisher15:38

       Sure

    5. SPSpeaker15:38

       ... the place with grief and stuff.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher15:39

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker15:39

       And so when w- we used to have conflicts, he would wanna leave. Like he would wanna be like, "I need to go on a walk and-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher15:48

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker15:48

       ... and take a break."

    10. JFJefferson Fisher15:49

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker15:49

        And I would be like, "No, you can't."

    12. JFJefferson Fisher15:51

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker15:51

        You know, I would feel like I was about to-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher15:53

        Abandoned

    15. SPSpeaker15:55

        ... be abandoned.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher15:56

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker15:56

        And then it would just, the conversation would keep going, and it would just get worse. And I had to realize like through some work that I need to respect his boundary.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher16:04

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SPSpeaker16:04

        And when he needed space from the conversation, he was allowed to take it.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher16:08

        Right.

    21. SPSpeaker16:08

        And I needed to rescue myself.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher16:10

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker16:10

        It wasn't on him to rescue me. When he leaves like-

    24. JFJefferson Fisher16:13

        Yeah

    25. SPSpeaker16:13

        ... and needs the space, like I have to breathe and rescue myself. And so I've, I've learned to do that, and it's been so much more-

    26. JFJefferson Fisher16:21

        Yeah

    27. SPSpeaker16:21

        ... productive.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher16:22

        Oh, yes.

    29. SPSpeaker16:23

        So much more productive-

    30. JFJefferson Fisher16:24

        But-
12. 18:48 – 21:37

    Be ready before you talk: set a goal and lead with the takeaway (one sentence)

    1. JFJefferson Fisher18:48

       Okay, so here's, here's one thought.

    2. SPSpeaker18:50

       Uh-huh.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher18:51

       Often what I find is people wait until they're talking to figure out what they want to say.

    4. SPSpeaker18:55

       Uh-huh. [laughs] That's so true.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher18:56

       Meaning, meaning you, you get into it, and you know the context, but you don't know how to land the plane.

    6. SPSpeaker19:03

       Yeah.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher19:03

       Like you have an idea of a point, but you haven't verbalized that point.

    8. SPSpeaker19:06

       That's my whole life.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher19:07

       And you don't [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker19:09

        [laughs]

    11. JFJefferson Fisher19:09

        And you don't... A- and to his credit, you know, he is trying to search for what your point is.

    12. SPSpeaker19:15

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher19:15

        'Cause if you're not sure what your point even is, you can be rest assured we're not gonna know. And so what does that do? That puts us in the position of guessing.

    14. SPSpeaker19:23

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher19:24

        If you start talking about instead of leading with your point.

    16. SPSpeaker19:26

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher19:27

        Number one would be have a goal for the conversation.

    18. SPSpeaker19:30

        Totally.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher19:30

        If it's important, know what the finish line looks like-

    20. SPSpeaker19:32

        Mm-hmm

    21. JFJefferson Fisher19:32

        ... and bring them with you.

    22. SPSpeaker19:33

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher19:33

        And you have to tell them upfront where that finish line is.

    24. SPSpeaker19:36

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher19:37

        Two would be don't begin with the context, begin with the takeaway.

    26. SPSpeaker19:41

        Okay.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher19:42

        So this is what leading with context sounds like. Okay, so remember the other day when we were saying X, Y, and Z, and, and just go with me here, and I... Well, that's not true. And he said, "Well, that's a lie." Uh, and they're just going-

    28. SPSpeaker19:54

        All over the place

    29. JFJefferson Fisher19:55

        ... pinballing-

    30. SPSpeaker19:56

        Yeah
13. 21:37 – 23:20

    Waterfall vs. well: invite questions, and clarify when you’re venting vs. asking to fix

    1. JFJefferson Fisher21:37

       It's, it's this mindset I teach of instead of being a waterfall, be a well.

    2. SPSpeaker21:42

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher21:43

       Like if I have something of value that you want to pull from and continue to get more information of, then you ask the question-

    4. SPSpeaker21:48

       Mm-hmm

    5. JFJefferson Fisher21:49

       ... rather than me throwing it all on top of you-

    6. SPSpeaker21:51

       Right

    7. JFJefferson Fisher21:51

       ... and, and say, saying-

    8. SPSpeaker21:53

       Pick which one-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher21:54

       Yeah, yeah

    10. SPSpeaker21:54

        ... and sift through it.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher21:55

        Exactly.

    12. SPSpeaker21:56

        Yeah.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher21:56

        And because now I'm in the position of like trying to s- solve it for you.

    14. SPSpeaker21:59

        Right.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher21:59

        And go, "Oh, you want me to do this? No, no, no."

    16. SPSpeaker22:01

        Right.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher22:01

        "No, that's not... Uh, wait, wait, wait. That's not it. That's not it." And you hear that a lot in conversation-

    18. SPSpeaker22:06

        Mm-hmm

    19. JFJefferson Fisher22:06

        ... in romantic relationships-

    20. SPSpeaker22:07

        Mm-hmm

    21. JFJefferson Fisher22:07

        ... is that that's not it.

    22. SPSpeaker22:08

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher22:08

        Because one person's trying to solve it-

    24. SPSpeaker22:10

        They're trying to figure it out

    25. JFJefferson Fisher22:11

        ... and be the hero. Of course-

    26. SPSpeaker22:12

        Yeah

    27. JFJefferson Fisher22:12

        ... because they think that's what you're asking.

    28. SPSpeaker22:13

        Completely.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher22:13

        So even if, even if you were to start the conversation of, "I'm telling you this so I can say it out loud. I'm not asking you to do anything with it. I just need to say this out loud."

    30. SPSpeaker22:23

        Uh-huh.

Episode duration: 23:20