How to Handle Defensiveness in Communication: Tips for Healthier Conversations

1. 0:00 – 1:00

   Why defensiveness shuts down conversations (and why it’s natural)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      If there's one thing that I personally struggle with, it's feeling defensive. It's natural, but it's also the number one killer of conversation. If you feel defensive, you shut everybody off, and if they feel defensive, they're not gonna listen to anything else you have to say. On today's episode, it's all about how do you handle defensiveness? Welcome to The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm gonna ask you to follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review or a star or anything. It, it really matters, and I read them all. If you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. I also wanna make sure that you know my book, The Next Conversation, is officially out on pre-order, and I put the links down in the show notes. If there's one thing about defensiveness, it's that it's so easy to do. It's just biological. It's natural because anything that you perceive as a threat or a challenge, you

2. 1:00 – 2:01

   The ignition vs. cooling sides of arguments

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:00

      fight against. It is natural as part of your fight or flight. On, on any argument that you're going to have, there are two sides. There is an ignition side and a cooling side of it, and that ignition is triggered by things that trigger you. So any time somebody challenges your opinion or disagrees with you, your body perceives that as a threat. It says, "I don't like that." Somebody gives you an opinion and you disagree, your body says, "I don't like that." Somebody's telling you what to do, your body goes, "I don't really like that." So every time that happens, there is a desire to push back against it. If somebody's telling you, "You need to go do this," you automatically wanna go, "No, I don't." If somebody says, "Oh, you were behaving this way last night. You were in a bad mood last night," you automatically wanna go, "No, I wasn't. Who are you to tell me how I was or how I'm feeling or what to do?" We preserve that element of autonomy

3. 2:01 – 2:31

   Tool #1: Let their words fall to the ground

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:01

      within ourselves, and so any time you feel defensiveness, it is just so reactionary. And it's nearly impossible to stop from the get-go, but there are some tips and techniques that I'm gonna give you to make sure that you know how to handle it in the moment. Number one, to keep yourself from getting defensive, let their words fall to the ground. This is what I mean. In case you forgot, other people's words are not your responsibility to carry. It's not tennis or volleyball. You don't have to throw anything back. So

4. 2:31 – 3:01

   Tool #2: Stop starting sentences with “you” (switch to “I”)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:31

      instead, you're just gonna take a breath. Imagine that their words fall to the ground and you get to decide whether to pick them up or just leave them there, and you're gonna find more often than not, you just wanna leave them there. Number two, get rid of beginning your sentence with you. When it comes to responding in an argument, the word you is very triggering because it's you telling them what to do, how they should behave, what they need to say, what they need to do, and they're going to get defensive. So instead of you, we're gonna tweak that to start with I.

5. 3:01 – 3:31

   Tool #3: Use acknowledgment phrases that lower defenses

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:01

      When you start with I, it's not nearly as triggering. Number three, you're gonna use phrases that help dampen defensive responses, responses like, "I agree. That's something that we should consider," or, "That's helpful for me to know. Thank you." When you use those phrases, it's telling them that they're getting acknowledged, and they're not going to get defensive. What I try to do when somebody tells me something and I can tell that I'm getting defensive, I try and imagine, like, what they just told me was a piano note, right? You

6. 3:31 – 5:02

   “Sustain the note”: pausing instead of reacting

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

      ever heard somebody just hit one key on the piano and they just leave their finger there and you just let that note sustain, is what they call it. You let that note just end by itself to where it eventually just falls and drops. The note is no longer heard. It... That's how I imagine it. So when somebody says something that I don't like, instead of having this very reactionary response, this very defensive response that I know is not worth my energy and time, I picture in my mind that it is fallen. The, the word just fell out of their mouth and they're on the ground, and I get to look at them and go, "Is this worth my time? Is this worth my energy?" Often when I start to get involved in it and I'd start to pick it up, I tell myself this phrase, what I use small talks, and that is I tell myself, "Put it down, Jefferson. Put it down, Jefferson. It's not worth your time. What are you doing? Put it down." I, I say those things to myself and it helps me. It controls my emotions when I can inject my breath, let my breath be the first thing that I say, and have that slow reaction and go, "You know what? No. I don't have to send that back. I don't have to hit that back over the net. I don't have to take a swing at this." Just let it go by. There's, there's not a umpire. Just let them have a bad pitch. They threw a ball. So what? You don't swing at them. You don't swing at those. So when I have that kind of mentality, it, it helps me in a very specific way because defensive

7. 5:02 – 6:33

   Breaking the self-fulfilling defensiveness cycle

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:02

      behavior is just biological. It is in- innate within every one of us that we naturally want to defend things. We want to defend, uh, our intelligence. We want to, uh, uh, defend our credibility. We want to defend our own ideas and opinions, and when somebody is conflicting with those, we want to put our wall up, to put our shield up to protect that. That's why so often when you start to say things and you can tell somebody's fighting and fighting and fighting, th- they are defending against their own ideas. They are protecting their house, so to speak. That's why that whole idea of having something to learn instead of something to prove, having something that's open rather than something that's pointing at them is going to open up the dialogue so much better and not gonna have these defensive reactions. So any time that somebody tells you something and you start to feel that tension in your body that's preparing you for that fight or flight, just imagine that their words are falling to the ground. You're gonna take a few seconds and decide for yourself, "Is this something I need to respond to?" And in truth, it's a cycle, what I call a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I say something and they get defensive, well, more often than not, they're gonna say something back, and then I'm gonna get defensive, and all of a sudden we're just saying things that are hurting each other and we're, we both have our walls up. When it comes to defensive behavior,

8. 6:33 – 8:34

   Why “you” statements backfire (with concrete examples)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:33

      one of the worst things you can do is begin your sentence with you. If I were to tell you right now, "You seem like you're in a bad mood," or if I were just to be very blunt, "You're in a bad mood," most likely you're going to disagree with me or you're gonna correct me or you're gonna adjust what I just told you. You're gonna say, "No, no, I'm not," or, "Well, I'm, no, I'm just, I'm irritated right now." You're not going to accept that I said you're in a bad mood because you is assum- assumption based. It is trying to tell somebody what they're doing, what they need to be doing. Uh, "You're not listening to me," it gets people defensive because what they wanna say is, "Yes, I am. I am listening to you," versus me saying, "I feel like you're not listening to me. I feel like I'm not being heard." When you change you to I, it's not nearly as defensive, 'cause I'm not assuming that you're doing anything. If I were to say, "You don't even care. You don't care," automatically you're gonna... What you're thinking inside is, "Yes, I am. I, I do care." People don't like to be told that they are something or they feel a certain way or they're doing something. W- we don't like that. So when you just easily turn it from instead of beginning your sentence with you, change it to I. Change it to I. It's just, it's that easy. I, I can't make it any more simple than that. When somebody's getting defensive, m- the most likely culprit is because you started a sentence with you. I'm also guilty of that, all right? A- anytime that somebody's getting in defensive in an argument with me or a conversation, I can go back in my mind and go, "I d- I started that sentence with you. I shouldn't have done that." When I rephrase it with an I and say, "Hey, can I, can I start over? I feel like I, I wasn't heard," I'm beginning with I, and it's gonna smooth it out a whole lot better. So easiest transition here is anytime you say something, to keep somebody from getting defensive, instead of you, just replace it with I. Instead of, "You

9. 8:34 – 9:05

   Practical rewrites: setting boundaries without triggering defenses

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:34

      can't talk to me like that," it's, "I don't respond to that volume. I don't respond to that tone." You make it about you yourself as a... saying I, I feel this way, and take it away from that other person and they're not gonna get defensive. Now, I also wanna make sure that I equip you with some phrases that are going to help dampen defensive behavior. If you're already in that argument and things are already going, and you go, "Oh, man, I, I really need to just calm things down for a second," here are some phrases that I want you to, to use real quick. One of my favorites is beginning

10. 9:05 – 10:35

    De-escalation phrases: ‘I agree’ and ‘I’ve learned…’

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:05

       your sentence with, "I agree." Now, listen to me. I'm not saying that you're agreeing with what they said. All right? Instead, you're just agreeing that the discussion needs to be had. Instead of thinking micro, go macro. So if somebody's communicating, instead of saying, getting all defensive and arguing with them, I can just say, "I agree that this is worth discussing." You feel automatically that's just gonna settle the conversation. It's gonna smooth it out. They're gonna lower their voice, lower their tone. The spikes aren't gonna be as pointy. Just say, "Hey, I, I agree we need to talk about this." Simple as that. Begin your sentence with, "I agree. I agree that this subject is worth discussing." You hear how different that is? They're gonna feel acknowledged, like, "Okay, this is... I, I'm not having to fight. I don't have to fight and put, put up all the spikes all the time." Another that I like to use is, "That's helpful to know." Tell them that they've been helpful. And when somebody feels like they've been helpful, it feels like they're involved in their own mutual understanding, uh, that they have helped, uh, teach you things. That's why I also like using the phrase, "What I've learned." Oh, "By listening to you right now I've, I've learned I have some work to do," or, "I've learned that this topic is really important to you." That's one I've used often, "I've learned that this topic is, is important to you." Just by them hearing, "I've learned," they feel like they've taught something and it's going to lower, it's gonna lower all the walls s- because now they feel like they're on the same playing field. They

11. 10:35 – 12:06

    Listener Q&A setup + sponsor message

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:35

       don't have to continue to pick up their sword and fight and cut and slash to defend their property, defend their own ideas and opinions. Instead, when you use these phrases like, "I agree this is worth talking about," or, um, "That's helpful for me to know," or, "I've, I've learned that this is important to you," those are all going to quickly put out a lot of fires for you. Okay, now we're at my favorite part of the podcast and that's where I get to read a question from a follower. Those that are part of my newsletter are able to email me questions and I'm able to answer them. So if you're not part of my newsletter where I give a weekly communication tip right to your inbox, you can just find the link there in the show notes and I'll be happy to, to have you and answer any questions that you have. I'm also honored to say that this segment of the podcast is sponsored, and it's sponsored by a company called Cozy Earth. I said yes to Cozy Earth because I use their products. Their bedsheets are on my bed, and they are the smoothest, most, uh, just comfortable sheets [laughs] I've ever had. I probably have never talked about bedsheets in my life. That's, that's how good they are. Also, all of their, uh, leisure wear, like I, I love their s- their hoodies, the sweatpants. My wife loves their pajamas. Uh, they're awesome. So if you're looking for something over the Christmas holidays, this is definitely one you wanna check out. Go to cozyearth.com/jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's a, uh, 40% off of your entire order, which is, I think, a pretty awesome of them. Okay, this is my, um,

12. 12:06 – 13:07

    Manager dilemma: giving feedback to an employee who gets defensive

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:06

       the follower that I want to bring up. Her name is Rachel. Rachel is in New York. Rachel says... Let me pull it up. Rachel says, "Hey, Jefferson, I love your content." Thanks, Rachel. "I have an issue. I am..." A manager of a department in the company, and I'm responsible for about 50 people. That's very cool, Rachel. But I have one person in particular that any time I try to give any feedback or criticism, she gets extremely defensive, and it always ends up in some drama or an argument. Any advice and tips would help. Thank you so much. Awesome. Rachel, I totally understand, and anybody that's listening right now that is a manager or in a supervisory role or just responsible for other people totally can relate to what you're talking about, where you have that one person that no matter how nice you say it, no matter how much thought you put into what you're trying to say to critique, to feedback, to, to help guide them and mold, they're gonna get defensive, and they're gonna get really upset.

13. 13:07 – 16:08

    Workplace phrasing fixes: avoid ‘need to,’ avoid ‘why,’ critique the work—not the person

    1. JFJefferson Fisher13:07

       So here's, here's some tips that I think might help you, Rachel. Number one, aside from the tips we already talked about of not beginning with the word you and using phrases like, "I agree this is something we need to talk about," here's some others I, I want you to consider, and that is any time you use the phrase need to. All right? This, this is gonna sound familiar to you. Has anybody texted you, Rachel, "We need to talk"? Ever gotten that? We need to talk. It, it just, it totally puts you on the defensive of like what are we talking about? It's that fear of the unknown, of what's gonna happen. Or you need to listen. You need to sit down. You see how also I'm using the word you? That's, that's a problem. Need to is a directive. So when you... They're looking for feedback, and you go, "Well, you really need to be better about doing X, Y, and Z," they're gonna feel defensive because some people have a very sensitive, uh, barometer of somebody telling them what to do. Even though it's a job, even though that's what they're supposed to be doing, they still don't like it. They don't, they don't like the feel of it. So any time you begin that, uh, sentence with need to or you need to do something, it's gonna cause problems. So Rachel, what I want you to do is try with can we. Just flip it to say can we try to do X, Y, and Z? Can we try to be in a little earlier? Can we try to, uh, better organize X, Y, and Z? Can you see how even though you're telling them the same exact information, instead of you need to clean your desk, it's can we try to keep a, a cleaner workspace? You hear the difference? When I say can we, now it says that the rules apply to all of us. It's not just you. I'm not saying you need to do it and go clean your room, you know, back to when you're a kid. Instead, it's can we, and it's gonna sound like, hey, everybody's under the same set of rules here. Another I want you to use is be careful of any time you use the word why. When you begin your sentence with why, people don't like that. It's, like, questioning their autonomy. So even if I just asked you, Rachel, "Why'd you do that?" I'm assuming the first thing you wanna say is, "Because I wanted to. That's, that's why. Because I wanted to." So instead of beginning it with why, just think of how or what. So instead of why'd you do that, ask what led to this decision or how did we come to this decision. You see how the difference? So instead of why, just tweak it really easily to how or what, and it's gonna be a whole lot better. Another thing, Rachel, I think that, that might also help, help you with this employee is any time you need to be critical of something, try to be critical of the inanimate object, the, the thing that, um... Let's say it's this person's proposal. Let's say she's working on a proposal, and you need to, you need to give some feedback on it. Instead of saying, "Look, you really need to clean up this section here," instead of the you, which makes it very personal, or even your proposal, it should be the proposal. Make it a third person

14. 16:08 – 17:28

    Recap: the 5-second pause, words-to-the-ground, and ‘I’ language

    1. JFJefferson Fisher16:08

       separate from her. Say, "This proposal could benefit from some clarity." You see I'm not making it about her? Now we're talking as together as a team, right? The same kinda o- uh, concept of can we, and now we're talking about the proposal together, and it's gonna help minimize that defensive behavior. All right? So try those tips, and I think they're gonna work out a lot better for you, Rachel. Thank you for listening to The Jefferson Fisher Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm gonna ask you to follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review or give a star or give any kind of ranking. It would really mean a lot to me. Also, if you listened to this podcast and you thought of any other topics you'd like to hear about, just throw them in the comments, and I'll be happy to add them to the list. Okay, t- on today's episode, it was all about defensiveness, so we learned that when you're starting to feel defensive, you're gonna give it about five seconds, take a big breath, and imagine their words falling to the ground and then making the intentional decision, the choice of deciding do I wanna pick this up or do I wanna leave it exactly where it fell? And when it comes to keeping other people from getting defensive, we learned all about why using the word you to start your response is going to trigger defensiveness, and by just switching it to I, we can really cut down on a whole lot of problems. So you can try all that and, as always, follow me.

Episode duration: 17:28