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The Jefferson Fisher PodcastThe Jefferson Fisher Podcast

How to Raise Kids Who Aren't Entitled Ft. Dr Becky

What if protecting your kids from struggle is actually making life harder for them later? Dr. Becky Kennedy joins me to talk about what it really takes to raise confident, resilient kids who can handle frustration, failure, boundaries, and hearing “no.” We get into when to help versus when to let your child struggle, the right way to set boundaries, how to avoid raising entitled kids, and why being a great parent has nothing to do with getting it right all the time. We also talk about one of the most important skills in any relationship—knowing how to repair when you mess up. Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/newsletter Thank you to our Sponsors: Factor. Head to https://factormeals.com/jefferson50off and use code JEFFERSON50OFF to get 50% off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year. Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at https://cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, today! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/topic Join my School of Communication. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/membership Follow me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher Follow me on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@justaskjefferson?lang=en Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonfisher/

Jefferson FisherhostDr. Becky Kennedyguest
Sep 18, 20261h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 4:47

    Supported struggle: balancing help vs. rescue to build resilience

    1. JF

      How do you like to communicate boundaries to kids?

    2. BK

      People really misunderstand boundaries because boundary is something you tell your kid you will do, and it requires your kid to do nothing. But most parents, they have over-corrected. We think we say no, but we actually ask our kids' permission. We do this weird "okay" at the end. "Can I watch another show?" "Look, it's not good for you, okay?" "Can I watch another show?" "No, sweetie, TV is over," and then stop talking.

    3. JF

      How do we build capable, resilient humans?

    4. BK

      You cannot go through a life of a road being paved for you and expect when you're older to know how to navigate twists and turns. So the hardest moments when your kid is struggling are the moments where resilience gets built, and I think supported struggle comes from two things. The first is, "I believe you," but we have dropped the second piece, which is the [censored] .

    5. JF

      What is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to parenthood?

    6. BK

      That you have to get it right all the time. Repair is really the most important part of good parenting, and you can't repair if you don't mess up.

    7. JF

      How do you know if you're spoiling your kid? What do you say to your kid when they say, "I can't"? What can a parent do to make sure that their kid is not entitled?

    8. BK

      The best way to not have an entitled kid, and I can be concrete about this, is to-

    9. JF

      How do we build-

    10. BK

      Mm-hmm

    11. JF

      ... capable, resilient humans?

    12. BK

      Who... Anti-fragile-

    13. JF

      Yeah, yeah

    14. BK

      ... children. 100%.

    15. JF

      Capable, resilient-

    16. BK

      Yep. Good

    17. JF

      ... not just kids, humans.

    18. BK

      Yep.

    19. JF

      'Cause I have two. You have three. Uh, and I am... It keeps me up-

    20. BK

      Yep

    21. JF

      ... all the time-

    22. BK

      Yep

    23. JF

      ... thinking of, am I [laughs] ruining everything? And it doesn't take but a few therapy sessions of my own to go, "Okay, am I doing everything, uh, the right way?" So I, I... The question I have for you is, is there a line between how building capacity and sturdiness, is your word, and just letting them struggle? In other words-

    24. BK

      Mm-hmm

    25. JF

      ... like, do you... Where, where's the, the line between letting that balance fall?

    26. BK

      Yep. So do you want me to just-

    27. JF

      Yeah

    28. BK

      ... answer that?

    29. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. BK

      Okay. My one-liner for how we do that? No.

  2. 4:47 – 6:35

    The two-part formula: “I believe you” + “I believe in you”

    1. BK

      s- uh, support is not solutions. They're two very different things, and I think supported struggle comes from two things, and I think we've over-corrected to just the first. The first is, "I believe you. I believe you this is hard. I believe you this puzzle is hard."

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BK

      "I believe you going to soccer practice is hard. I believe you it's hard to do the bonus problem on your math homework when you don't know if you're gonna get it right. I believe you." But we have dropped the second piece, which is the, "I believe in you." That if you can't see a more capable version of your kid than they can access in themselves, you've collapsed into their sense of their own fragility with them, and then that has kind of profound consequences for the rest of their life.

    4. JF

      I have so many-

    5. BK

      Okay

    6. JF

      ... um, of my own flashbacks recently of how quickly my kids sometimes can just give up-

    7. BK

      Yeah

    8. JF

      ... on something, or you hear... I, I, I know yours is a puzzle. My daughter, who's six, she's really into creating these, like, rubber band bracelets.

    9. BK

      Mm.

    10. JF

      They're everywhere. She's made gobs.

    11. BK

      The little ones?

    12. JF

      The little ones.

    13. BK

      Yep.

    14. JF

      And she's made-

    15. BK

      Mm

    16. JF

      ... gobs of them at our house for everybody. Anybody she can think of, she's making this bracelet. Um, but she was trying to do this really intricate design, and of course, I hear her upstairs- Oh, this is her. She's going, "Oh, come on." Like, that's her upstairs. [laughs] Like, you can hear she going, "Oh." And of course, I go up there, and I wanted to in that moment just go, "Okay, I... This is hard. Let me, let me help you-

    17. BK

      Yeah

    18. JF

      ... with this." Um, and long story short, I didn't. The question is, is there ever an okay time when your kid's going through a, a hard moment to rescue them?

  3. 6:35 – 12:18

    When is it OK to ‘rescue’? The frustration bell curve

    1. BK

      Y- y- yes, because I think there's, if you think about struggle, let's just say, or frustration as a bell curve.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BK

      Resilience, this isn't truly scientific, but my guess is resilience is built in the two to eight zone. When you're at a 10 out of 10-

    4. JF

      H- H- H to D

    5. BK

      ... no, sorry, like a level two to a level 10. When you're feeling, let's say, frustration or overwhelm at any age at a level 10 and you're frozen in fear-

    6. JF

      Yeah

    7. BK

      ... and you're having a panic attack, you're in survival mode.

    8. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    9. BK

      Often in that situation, and this can happen, I was actually just talking to, you know, a couple about this. Their kid right now is young and likes to play soccer, but going to soccer practice and joining the team finds it intimidating, and they're like, "We're not gonna give into this. We're not one of those parents who's like, 'Okay, fine, we'll just get you private lessons forever.' No, that's not us."

    10. JF

      [laughs]

    11. BK

      And by the way, two college soccer players, so there's history, right?

    12. JF

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    13. BK

      Okay. So they're like, "We're going," right? And, and they had a little difference of opinion. The mom was saying, "We're gonna go, and the truth is, what am I gonna do? Make my kid play? We're gonna go. We're gonna sit, I feel like, over time."

    14. JF

      Yeah.

    15. BK

      And the dad was like, "That... N- no. My kid is going to practice, and it's like, if you don't go today, no dessert tonight, no screens tonight-"

    16. JF

      Right

    17. BK

      ... no this." By the way, this has been tried, and actually the kid just freezes more because now that kid feels like a huge failure at soccer-

    18. JF

      Right

    19. BK

      ... and a few huge failure [laughs] in their home. Is that rescuing to not make them go to soccer? But I think the difference is rescuing in that situation is probably, if you have the means, we'll just give you private soccer lessons forever so you never have to deal with the kind of anxiety of, what if I'm not the best one?

    20. JF

      Right.

    21. BK

      What... Right? I don't think rescuing is saying, as an example, "We're gonna go to soccer. Look, I'm, I don't know if you're-

    22. JF

      Yes

    23. BK

      ... gonna join, but I'm... We're gonna go, and we're gonna sit there-

    24. JF

      Mm-hmm

    25. BK

      ... because when we sign up for something in this family, we work toward doing it. And also, I just kinda think you're the type of kid who takes a little bit longer to warm up, and that's fine. And I feel like maybe at one of the practices, you might feel ready." That was my daughter for years. For years, a slow-to-warm-up kid. And I think what we take away in the rescuing is we remove kids from the situations that would build resilience. It's just that some kids have a longer timeline, and frankly, we find it inconvenient. I'm like, is that really how I'm gonna spend every birthday party with my kid sitting on my lap into the last five minutes, and then they cry that the birthday party was too short?

    26. JF

      Yeah.

    27. BK

      I spent two years like that.

    28. JF

      Yeah.

    29. BK

      But I know my kid wouldn't have gotten to the place of being able to join and function if I just said, "You know what? She's not a kid who can go to birthday parties."

    30. JF

      Right.

  4. 12:18 – 19:27

    Youth sports pressure: character-building vs. parents’ unlived dreams

    1. BK

      Okay.

    2. JF

      Okay. In the South where I was raised, the select baseball teams are insano. They are nuts, okay? It's, it's fall ball and seasons. It's all year round, and most of these boys don't wanna be doing it. They wanna be playing with friends, and they have parents that are-

    3. BK

      Mm-hmm

    4. JF

      ... "No, you will," and I know some that are, "If you don't perform or you don't hit, there's no, you know, call it iPad. There's no... There's always, like, a, "We'll take you out." There's al- uh, ice cream. There's always some kinda carrot.

    5. BK

      No clothes, no dinner.

    6. JF

      Yeah. [laughs]

    7. BK

      [laughs]

    8. JF

      Yeah, something like that. No bath. Um, there's always a-

    9. BK

      Mm-hmm

    10. JF

      ... carrot on, on the-

    11. BK

      Yeah

    12. JF

      ... on the stick. And I am curious, um, I'm sure I could package this differently, but I, I wanna know to the kids who don't wanna-

    13. BK

      Mm

    14. JF

      ... go to, to the ball practice, who don't wanna show up and practice-

    15. BK

      Yeah

    16. JF

      ... the sport that they're in, how do these parents handle that?

    17. BK

      You know, I, I have a nuanced opinion of this, and I think if I talked to you a year ago, I would've felt really confident in my opinion. And then I actually did this series of interviews on my pod with athletes, right? Like Tony Finau, Russell Wilson.

    18. JF

      Whoa, yeah.

    19. BK

      And I, I kind of expected, to be honest, I don't know why, them all to say, "Yeah, I was that kid at the gym. I was this." Across the board, they had a parent, [laughs] okay, who was like, "Let's go. Let's go," you know?

    20. JF

      Get up. Let's go.

    21. BK

      Get up-

    22. JF

      Yeah

    23. BK

      ... because one of my kids sometimes I'm like, "Hello? Go practice."

    24. JF

      Yes.

    25. BK

      "Like, you could be better, and that should come from you." And it was just interesting, not like my, any of my kids have the raw talent of any of those humans. Let's just be perfectly clear.

    26. JF

      [laughs]

    27. BK

      But I, I was thinking they had raw talent, and I guess they also didn't have that. And I remember one of them saying it was probably not until age 13, 14, after honestly that habit of waking up-

    28. JF

      Mm-hmm

    29. BK

      ... in the morning, then I started doing it on my own. I was like, oh, 13, 14, okay.

    30. JF

      Yeah, yeah.

  5. 19:27 – 21:02

    Fair-effort systems: matching family investment to the child’s investment

    1. BK

      And I have two more things to say about youth sports, 'cause it's actually one of my favorite things. So number one, what you were saying about your son with soccer, where I think the mismatch comes, and then both the resentment and aggression is, okay, my kid doesn't really wanna practice on their own.

    2. JF

      Mm.

    3. BK

      But I am paying for two private lessons for them, but they practice 0% besides those lessons. I am putting in, as a parent, so much more effort to my kid's sports than they are, and then I end up yelling, "You don't care." I, I think it's okay to set up a system, and I'm just using private lessons as an example. It could not be private lessons. It could just be going to soccer practice-

    4. JF

      Right

    5. BK

      ... because that still takes up my time. I'm allowed to say to my kid at any point, I would encourage a parent to do this, 'cause I think we've over-corrected as a generation to our kids becoming like the pilot of the family [laughs] plane.

    6. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    7. BK

      "Hey, you wanna do soccer. That's amazing. I, I, I wanna let you know kind of how this can work in our family, because we love watching you play soccer, but also it takes our time, it takes our money, and so you asked for that private lesson. Here's how we can make that work. Every week, if you have a private lesson, there have to be two times that you practice on your own." That's not a threat. That's not a consequence. That's a way of saying, "Our effort equals your effort."

    8. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    9. BK

      If it gets to the point where that's too hard to do, "Sweetie, that's fine. We'll still keep up your soccer team. I'm gonna pull back on the lessons." A- and I'm not saying this with aggression. I'm saying it so the family is in balance.

    10. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    11. BK

      And I think sometimes we, we are just in the habit of doing and doing and doing for our kid, and we can just be honest about the system that, that feels better for everyone.

  6. 21:02 – 22:21

    A 3-part resilience toolkit for hard moments

    1. JF

      I, I, I agree with that mentality wholeheartedly. Um, I want us to be able right now-

    2. BK

      Mm-hmm

    3. JF

      ... to kind of put on our nerd glasses and workshop-

    4. BK

      Great

    5. JF

      ... our own three points-

    6. BK

      Great

    7. JF

      ... uh, on how do we teach our kids how to handle hardship when things are-

    8. BK

      Okay

    9. JF

      ... hard. What I hear you said a minute ago is, one, there's the element of, "I believe what you're going through is what you're going through." Like, "I believe that it's hard. I believe that it's difficult." I also heard you say, "I believe in you."

    10. BK

      Yes.

    11. JF

      Which is almost more important, I think, that they know that you, you see a different progressed version that they don't s-

    12. BK

      That's right

    13. JF

      ... they don't see.

    14. BK

      That's right.

    15. JF

      What, what's, what's a third one that we can add to this one?

    16. BK

      Um, that... I think the third thing is that the hard moments, when they lose a game or when they haven't yet been able to finish the puzzle or finish the math problem, just in your head to remind yourself, "This is the moment resilience is building."

    17. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    18. BK

      They're gonna whine, right? So the hardest moments when your kid is struggling are the moments where resilience get built.

    19. JF

      Okay.

    20. BK

      So don't take them away.

  7. 22:21 – 30:30

    The ‘walking complaints’ case study: fiery kids, sibling roles, and system dynamics

    1. JF

      I love it. I'm gonna, uh, give you some of my own, um, parent struggles.

    2. BK

      Okay.

    3. JF

      Okay. Here we go. 'Cause I get... You're with me, so I might as well-

    4. BK

      Let's do it

    5. JF

      ... let's might as well have a session. Um, so we just got back from Australia, and any time my kids come, my son is eight, my daughter is six, and she's been like this since she was four. We thought that it was gonna grow, it gonna be like a two-week thing. It is not. It has to do with her ability to walk and complain.

    6. BK

      Hmm.

    7. JF

      Okay? Meaning, the farther she walks, you would think the more complaints. It's the same no matter what.

    8. BK

      Mm.

    9. JF

      Whether it's a two-minute walk or an eight-minute walk. If we're walking to ice cream or a playground, there's no complaints.

    10. BK

      Mm.

    11. JF

      But if we're walking to, let's say s- something else, we have to go to a museum, we have to go to whatever, th- she will complain the entire time. She will come up with, "My leg hurts," which we know her leg doesn't hurt, 'cause it only hurts when she's walking and it's not going towards ice cream. Uh, or she'll say like she has a growing pain in the other leg, or her tummy hurts, or she doesn't feel good, and it makes walking anywhere miserable.

    12. BK

      Mm.

    13. JF

      Because if she's unhappy, she is skilled at making the rest of the family unhappy. And so a lot of it is I'll have to be like... She'll be like, "Is it five minutes? How many more minutes now?" and it's been 30 seconds.

    14. BK

      Mm.

    15. JF

      And I have to tell you, it drives me up-

    16. BK

      Yeah

    17. JF

      ... a wall, and I'm good for a little bit. Honestly, I'm good for a little bit. But then towards like the fifth time asking, I start to kind of come unhinged.

    18. BK

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JF

      All right? It's... Then we have to have a talk, and I may not show up the way I want to. Or I did the bad thing, and that was I was so tired of it, I picked her up and carried her, which is probably what she wanted in the first place.

    20. BK

      Um, look, like I don't think the times we like pick up and carry our children, if that's like the worst parenting offense, it's not, it's not so bad.

    21. JF

      No, it was-

    22. BK

      But I hear what you're saying. Am I reinforcing-

    23. JF

      Yes

    24. BK

      ... quote, "bad behavior"?

    25. JF

      That.

    26. BK

      That's the first thing.

    27. JF

      I pick her up every time she asks.

    28. BK

      Yeah.

    29. JF

      Always. It's, it was, that was her version of getting out of ... walking. And there are plenty of examples that it could be whether it's a parent in a grocery store and their kid is throwing a fit, or they are at a department store or whatever it is.

    30. BK

      Mm-hmm.

  8. 30:30 – 35:51

    The ‘100% trait’ idea: redistribution in families and marriages

    1. BK

      Yes. Where I remember, I remember complaining to my therapist years ago, and I'm curious if you and your wife get into this. It's like, "Seriously, my husband, it's crazy. It's crazy. We get home from a long weekend. There's so much to unpack." He's sitting on the couch after a- who sits on the couch? There's... And my therapist, I'll never forget, goes, "I think you need his help." And I was like, "Yeah, I need his help." I was so fired. She goes, "I think you need his help sitting on the couch." I was like, "Are you a cr- am I paying you for this advice?"

    2. JF

      Yeah.

    3. BK

      I was like, "What do you mean?" She goes, "Well, look, Becky, he owns all of the I just had a long drive, I wanna relax, and you own all of the we have to get this done right now," which by the way, no offense, like you actually don't, just to, just to be honest, but-

    4. JF

      All the unpacking, all the other stuff, yeah

    5. BK

      ... I'm gonna unpack, I'm gonna over-function, you know?

    6. JF

      Right, right, right.

    7. BK

      And if you ask for his help sitting down, my guess is you'd be shocked at one day when he goes, "You know, I'm gonna get up and just start unpacking." At least it paves the way for that. Because if you approach him as, "Why are you not like this?" He's not gonna say this, 'cause mostly unconscious. He goes, "Well, that's who, that's who you are. That's you." And so it was it, and it really did change things. It real- I hate to admit it, and I've seen it change things with my kids when I approach things that way, um, because it, it just puts more in the system to kind of redistribute.

    8. JF

      Before we continue, I wanna take a quick moment to tell you about Cozy Earth. One thing that we have really enjoyed in my family are our '90s-themed movie nights. So typically once a week, maybe once every other week, we do a '90s-themed movie where Sierra and I kinda get to relive a '90s nostalgic movie, and we're talking like The Sandlot or something, and we're introducing it to our kids, and we love it. One thing that we have been using every time we do one of these, and it's kind of become a thin- thing of contention, is the Cozy Earth blanket. In fact, it's called the Cuddle Blanket. It's weighted. It feels like a bear rug. I'm telling you, every time we get under it, and we, our whole family can fit under it, one of us is falling asleep. Usually it's, yes, it's, it's this guy. I'm, I'm typically falling asleep. But I'm telling you, if you love family movie nights or you just like a nice cozy cuddle time by yourself with some tea, you need to go try out this Cuddle Blanket. I mean it. I love it. I cannot recommend it enough. Cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 20% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 20% off. And now let's keep going. I'm smiling so much because I'm seeing all the things-

    9. BK

      Mm

    10. JF

      ... in my whole family where, who has 100% of a thing?

    11. BK

      Yes.

    12. JF

      You know, and if somebody has 100% of the thing, then it leaves no space for anybody else.

    13. BK

      100%. And this is not my way. In so many marriages, I think people say, "I over-function." It doesn't let your partner off the hook. It's not... Of course-

    14. JF

      Yeah

    15. BK

      ... they have to do more. But it, it's a really... Usually we can't solve a problem, I know you know this too, it's 'cause our mindset, if our m- if our mindset i- is keeping us stuck, you don't need another strategy. You need to switch your mindset to kind of see something in a new way. And the idea of, oh, am I hogging something-

    16. JF

      Mm

    17. BK

      ... is just so different. And it also adds some levity and right, you just kind of-

    18. JF

      Yeah

    19. BK

      ... laugh-

    20. JF

      Yeah, yeah

    21. BK

      ... which also helps you get a little unstuck.

    22. JF

      Well, I've just never thought of the, you know, well, maybe he needs your help sitting down.

    23. BK

      Yeah.

    24. JF

      Or maybe, you know, for my son, you know, he needs, you need to be a little bit more complaining.

    25. BK

      That's right.

    26. JF

      You know?

    27. BK

      Or you could go into her room one day and be like, "This is gonna sound so weird, and I know we talk about you complaining on drives. Is it ever kind of annoying that your brother doesn't complain?" [laughs] Like, are you ever thinking he's so uncomplaining?

    28. JF

      Right, he's so calm.

    29. BK

      He's so perfect-

    30. JF

      Yeah

  9. 35:51 – 42:22

    Boundaries with kids: what a boundary is (and isn’t)

    1. JF

      I wanna s- switch gears-

    2. BK

      Okay

    3. JF

      ... to boundaries.

    4. BK

      Mm.

    5. JF

      Now, I have a certain way that I like to communicate, 'cause you and I both talk in communication, that I like to communicate boundaries. I need to know from the source, Dr. Becky, on how do you like to communicate boundaries to kids?

    6. BK

      Often.

    7. JF

      [laughs]

    8. BK

      [laughs]

    9. JF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    10. BK

      Clearly.

    11. JF

      Fre- frequently. Yes.

    12. BK

      Frequently, sturdily.

    13. JF

      Yeah.

    14. BK

      Um, well, I think, and I think you and I have a lot of overlap here. I think people-

    15. JF

      Yeah

    16. BK

      ... really misunderstand boundaries because over and over I'll have parents just say, "My kid doesn't listen to me. My kid doesn't respect my boundaries."

    17. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    18. BK

      And I'll say, "Ugh, sounds like, that sounds exhausting."

    19. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    20. BK

      "Tell me more." And I, I always get something like this: "Okay, well, my kid's watching TV, and I... they know one episode, one episode and turn off, turn off the TV."

    21. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    22. BK

      "Turn it off." Okay, I'm gonna... And then I always laugh 'cause- We always just start counting as parents. Like, I don't know if you see that adult or CEOs do that. I've just never seen an adult, "I'm gonna count, I'm gonna count to five," then I count to five

    23. JF

      Five? I, I got three

    24. BK

      ... whatever it is. Three-

    25. JF

      Yeah

    26. BK

      ... whatever it is. I count, my kid still probably, again, unless they're a people pleaser, they're not-

    27. JF

      Yeah

    28. BK

      ... gonna do it, and then I make a threat that I have no intention of keeping. "If you don't turn off the TV, no dessert tonight."

    29. JF

      Yeah, yeah.

    30. BK

      Uh, and then I go over and I say, "You know what? That's it, you're punished," and then you come to my house when my kid doesn't listen.

  10. 42:22 – 46:26

    Powerful kids and cooperation: games, ‘correction hacks,’ and pro-social power

    1. JF

      ... and your action." I do, I find it funny on the one, two, three because I was... One of the things I was gonna ask was, you know, does one, two, three really work? I, I grew up on the one, two, three.

    2. BK

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JF

      Um, and I absolutely have used and will occasionally still use the one, two, three.

    4. BK

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JF

      When I need them to go upstairs and get ready for bath, th- they know how to get ready for bath. They're just kind of playing around. They're finding some ways to procrastinate and, you know what. And so when I get to two- My son's gone

    6. BK

      Of course he does

    7. JF

      Right? My daughter will look at me and count to three. She'll say three to my face.

    8. BK

      I love her.

    9. JF

      Okay? So she, she is-

    10. BK

      I love your son, too. [laughs]

    11. JF

      She... Yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, it- she, she suffers no fools, okay? And so, um, it's, it's the best that way. So what I've done instead is I will just do, like, [laughs] sometimes I'll make it fun as a, like, can y'all beat me up there?

    12. BK

      100%.

    13. JF

      Then if I do that, it's like, "Y'all can't beat me." Then it's, as soon as I act like I'm going, they're gone, and they w-

    14. BK

      Mm-hmm

    15. JF

      ... because they wanna... And then it's now it's a team, they won against-

    16. BK

      Against you

    17. JF

      ... against me.

    18. BK

      And look, kids like that, like your daughter and my son, they have this need, and, and it's healthy, it doesn't have to be unhealthy, to feel powerful.

    19. JF

      Yes.

    20. BK

      And they wanna, they always wanna tell their parent, "Hey, I know you're bigger than me, but I, I really need you to know I'm a person, too."

    21. JF

      Mm.

    22. BK

      Right? Which is why she's like, "Three." [laughs]

    23. JF

      Yeah.

    24. BK

      Cool.

    25. JF

      This was she at three.

    26. BK

      Three.

    27. JF

      Right, around three.

    28. BK

      I'm gonna say it before you say two. Want three.

    29. JF

      Yes, yes.

    30. BK

      Now what? Like, what do you got?

  11. 46:26 – 49:25

    Boundaries change with age: from physical control to relationship-based influence

    1. JF

      Right, for sure. Do you think that boundaries change as, uh, the, the boundaries that you need to give to a kid, do those boundaries change as they get older?

    2. BK

      Yes, and your ability to set true boundaries, right, versus a request-

    3. JF

      Mm-hmm

    4. BK

      ... right, with an older kid gets increasingly hard. Young kid, "Hey, it's too hard to leave the playground. I'm gonna pick you up and carry you to the car." My kid's three, it stinks, but they-

    5. JF

      Yeah

    6. BK

      ... can do that. My kid's 14, "Hey, it's time to leave the party. I'm gonna carry you," definitely not happening.

    7. JF

      Yeah.

    8. BK

      So-

    9. JF

      Or a kid's 16. It, it's-

    10. BK

      The phone charge is in the-

    11. JF

      Mm-hmm

    12. BK

      ... you know, kitchen, as an example. Well-

    13. JF

      Or they can drive.

    14. BK

      That's right.

    15. JF

      Yeah.

    16. BK

      I mean, their... Most boundaries, the truth is, as people get older, are more requests that you need some cooperation around. Like, the- because again, they're bigger. You can tell them what you're gonna do, but I think what that means is older kids definitely need boundaries, especially around screens, especially around phones-

    17. JF

      Mm-hmm

    18. BK

      ... especially what's in their room at night, things like that. Um, but the importance of being connected to your kid only matters more-

    19. JF

      Mm

    20. BK

      ... as you get older, because that's the only way your kid will listen to-

    21. JF

      Mm

    22. BK

      ... anything you say. Like, the only reason a teenager is gonna tell you the truth or cooperate on something that they don't inherently want to do when they're 15 versus 5-

    23. JF

      Mm

    24. BK

      ... is that they have, over the course of their many years, felt seen by you, respected by you, and, and sometimes I think, you know, and, uh, the adolescence that we have in America has traditionally been, um, you know, full of so many arguments. The teen years are the worst-

    25. JF

      Mm-hmm

    26. BK

      ... right? And look, teens are meant to separate from their parents, and they, we all over-correct before we kind of come back, right?

    27. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    28. BK

      So we have to push our parents away.

    29. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. BK

      But I do think that if you have parented your kid only through rewards, punishments, fear, your kid becomes 14, and if they're not a people pleaser, they look at you and they just think, "I am not scared of you, and I-"

  12. 49:25 – 52:38

    Comfort-optimizing parenting: why it breeds fragility and entitlement

    1. JF

      I'm glad you pointed that out. Um, I have a question. What is something that parents do that is well-meaning-

    2. BK

      Hmm

    3. JF

      ... but more often causes more harm than good? What do you see that tends to kind of r- rise to that level-

    4. BK

      Yeah, I-

    5. JF

      ... in your practice?

    6. BK

      I, I mean, I, at the risk of sounding repetitive, although it's, it's important 'cause it's always the thing, is I think optimizing for kids' comfort and happiness leads to relief of a hard situation in the moment.

    7. JF

      Can you say that again?

    8. BK

      Optimizing for a kid's comfort and happiness in the moment leads to relief today, but tends to lead to a lot of entitlement and fragility and anxiety later on.

    9. JF

      Hmm.

    10. BK

      And so, like, I'll give an example. You know, when we're recording right now, school year's about to start. Like, you find out your kid isn't in class with their best friend, right? And they're upset. "All my friends are in this class." Like, calling the school, or before that happens, calling the school to make sure your kid is in class with their best friend. It feels [laughs] like it, it feels like a really loving thing to do.

    11. JF

      Yeah.

    12. BK

      Right? So it comes purely from love. But I, I tend to think in a l- long-term, greedy way about parenting, that my kid's gonna be out of my house more than they're living in my house. The stakes only get higher, and what we do in the early years has an inordinately large impact on the rest of our kid's life. And so do I want to forever be the person who rescues my kid from the discomfort of having to be in a class with new kids? Which sure, that won't happen forever, but my kid is gonna have a job one day when they don't know anyone. My kid is going to have to be in new situations. I'm actually depriving my kid of the chance to feel capable, and worse, I'm sending my kid a message that I don't think they're capable.

    13. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    14. BK

      I have to micromanage their life and make their world tiny, and then they feel very tiny, even though they might not have a tantrum, you know?

    15. JF

      Yes.

    16. BK

      And so I, I guess I feel like maybe kids are screaming out to us, um, "Help me develop into the type of adult who's gonna be able to succeed in the world."

    17. JF

      Yeah.

    18. BK

      And I think about teens especially, and young adults I used to see, and I think this really matters, who legitimately felt angry at their parents. And I-

    19. JF

      For making their life too comfortable?

    20. BK

      Like, "Oh, me yelling at you as a 12-year-old was enough for you to change your decision?"

    21. JF

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    22. BK

      Like [laughs] grow up.

    23. JF

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    24. BK

      Like, that, like, now I have to suffer the consequences. And I think when we think about kind of our kid in the future, um, it, it, it helps us make decisions that help our kid through a tough situation today in a way that's actually gonna prepare them for the world they're gonna encounter tomorrow.

  13. 52:38 – 59:21

    Confidence vs. entitlement: self-trust, frustration tolerance, and ‘doses of no’

    1. JF

      How do you raise a, a confident kid-

    2. BK

      Yeah

    3. JF

      ... who is not also entitled-

    4. BK

      Ugh

    5. JF

      ... self-important, full of themselves?

    6. BK

      So I want to break apart two words, confidence and entitled, two of my favorite things, because... Okay, so going back to definitions-

    7. JF

      Yeah

    8. BK

      ... right? I think we've been given a definition of confidence that makes us optimize for the wrong thing.

    9. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. BK

      I used to think confidence was feeling good about yourself. I don't know, I feel good about myself. I don't think that's confidence at all. I think confidence is self-trust, which are actually very different things when you think about intervening. Because when I think about the most confident person I know, and this is what got me thinking about confidence differently, it was this girl in my class in a seminar at Duke who was super smart, just like really, really brilliant, and there was a part in the seminar where I still remember this, I was so confused by what my professor was saying.

    11. JF

      Hmm.

    12. BK

      I was just like, "I don't really know what you're saying."

    13. JF

      [laughs]

    14. BK

      And I just remember thinking, "Ah, I don't know." I looked around. Everyone else seemed to be nodding. I was like, "I guess I'll figure it out later." This girl shot her hand up, and she goes, "I'm really sorry, and I'm sorry if everyone else gets this. I usually understand everything you say. I'm totally confused the last [laughs] couple minutes. Is there any way you could say it in a different way? It feels important to understand." I was like, "Damn. Damn." That's confidence.

    15. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    16. BK

      She trusted her confusion-

    17. JF

      Hmm

    18. BK

      ... enough to say something. And more than that, she was able to hold onto something complicated in that moment. I'm a good, smart person who is confused right now.

    19. JF

      Hmm.

    20. BK

      If she was trying to feel good, which frankly, back in the day when I was 18, I was, if I was trying to be confident by feeling good, I talked myself out of my experience.

    21. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    22. BK

      It's probably fine. So I think building confidence in kids comes from very different things. When our kid says, "I'm the only one in my class who can't read," confidence doesn't come from saying to that kid, "That can't be true, but you're the fastest runner." That's what we say when we're trying to make a kid feel good about themselves. A kid comes home and says to their dad, "I'm the only one in my class who can't read," and essentially someone says back, "That's not true." [laughs] Like, that's what we're saying.

    23. JF

      Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

    24. BK

      You don't feel that way.

    25. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    26. BK

      Confidence is actually built when you say to a kid in that situation, "Ugh. First of all, thank you for telling me this. Tell me what happened today. Sounds like a hard day."

    27. JF

      Right.

    28. BK

      I can tolerate this experience in my kid. Now my kid's gonna be able to be confident because they're gonna be able to tolerate a wider range of things that happen to them instead of a narrower range.

    29. JF

      How do you make... What can a parent do to make sure that their kid is not ... entitled-

    30. BK

      Mm

  14. 59:21 – 1:03:04

    Spoiling, service, and being part of something bigger

    1. JF

      H- how do you know if you're spoiling your kid?

    2. BK

      I mean-

    3. JF

      I, I can tell you, I, I'm, I think I'm overly cautious-

    4. BK

      Mm-hmm

    5. JF

      ... of it. If I have to lean one way, I'd lean on, in terms of, like, I'm really aware of, okay, if my kid is having a different experience than what another kid is having, I, I, I feel like I need to have a conversation with him about how this is different and this is not what everybody gets. Or there, I'm, I'm afraid, I don't want to have a spoiled kid.

    6. BK

      Yeah.

    7. JF

      And so I know there are other people listening, and that's, like, one of their biggest fears-

    8. BK

      Yeah

    9. JF

      ... is having a kid who's spoiled.

    10. BK

      Yeah. I, I think, "How do I know if I have a spoiled kid?" is very similar to, "How do I know if I'm creating an entitled kid?" And I think you know when you watch what happens when your kid has to do something that's not for their enjoyment, when they have to wait-

    11. JF

      Mm-hmm

    12. BK

      ... or when they have to do something that inherently isn't enjoyable. And if you watch your kid over and over have huge meltdowns around that, I would say to a parent, it doesn't mean you're having a spoiled kid. It means you have to really shift things and make sure your kid has more opportunities to fold the laundry and unload the dishwasher- [laughs]

    13. JF

      Yeah

    14. BK

      ... and go to their kid's soccer game, go to their sister's soccer game.

    15. JF

      Can I share with you what's one of, been one of the bus- biggest conversation-

    16. BK

      Yeah

    17. JF

      ... boosters around that whole, at least that's helped my fear of, "Am I raising a spoiled kid?" is getting them involved in any type of community service activity.

    18. BK

      Totally.

    19. JF

      And you have to make it a family thing. And so whether it's mission trip, whether it's helping, uh, with a, an initiative for, you know, people who are underprivileged or whatever it is.

    20. BK

      Yeah.

    21. JF

      I have found that that has at least a, at least opens the door for trying to reverse that, because I think there are a lot of people who go, "Oh my gosh, I give my kid an iPad at the drop of a hat, and the TV's on all, all the time, and I, we don't... There are-" They, they have-

    22. BK

      Yeah

    23. JF

      ... everything that they could possibly want, and I've made nothing difficult, and they, and they really are spoiled. How do we reverse that kind of thing?

    24. BK

      A- and so I guess I- I'll amend my answer, 'cause I think that's really good. I think one way to not raise a spoiled kid is just to pay attention to how your kid reacts when things don't go their way. And if they-

    25. JF

      Yeah

    26. BK

      ... really can't tolerate it, it's a sign they need more opportunities for things not to [chuckles] go their way. Now, another thing I think that matters is impact on the world around them. There's something about the word spoiled, it's not just about having things. It's kind of a sense that I am the protagonist of the universe, you know?

    27. JF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    28. BK

      Not just of my life.

    29. JF

      I'm the main character. Yeah.

    30. BK

      Yeah, of, of everyone's life. And so when you do community service, even when you do involve your kid in doing grocery shopping for the family while you stay in the car-

  15. 1:03:04 – 1:09:31

    Emotional ‘vaccination’: raising kids who can hear “no” (and stop negotiating)

    1. JF

      This is a, a point that is, uh, akin to what we just spoke about. How do you raise a human who can handle being told no?

    2. BK

      Mm. I mean, I think it starts with being a parent who says no to your kid.

    3. JF

      Yeah.

    4. BK

      I, I... You know, a couple years ago someone came up to me and goes, "Dr. Becky, I hear we're not supposed to say no to our kids. Everything should be a creative yes." I'm like, "Where are you getting this information?"

    5. JF

      Yeah.

    6. BK

      "Can we go to the park?" "Yes, we can go on Saturday." I'm like, if I had to change-

    7. JF

      [laughs] Yeah

    8. BK

      ... everything. Like, also, if we just think the world today is a little bit of a microcosm with my kid for what they're gonna carry here, they're not gonna get a million creative yeses.

    9. JF

      Yeah.

    10. BK

      Now, if a parent listening to this is saying, "Great, that feels validating. I say no to my kid with 95% of my communication," that's not gonna be a great relationship.

    11. JF

      Yeah.

    12. BK

      But most parents today have over-corrected, and we find a creative yes, or we think we say no, but we actually ask our kids permission. We do this weird, "Okay?"

    13. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    14. BK

      At the end, right?

    15. JF

      Yeah. [laughs]

    16. BK

      You know, "Can I watch another show?" "Look, it's not good for you, okay?" That-

    17. JF

      Yeah.

    18. BK

      "Can I watch another show?" "No, sweetie, TV is over."

    19. JF

      Yeah.

    20. BK

      Then stop talking. So that, I think about this concept of emotional vaccination a little bit.

    21. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    22. BK

      Like, if we think about the purpose of a vaccine, it's to give your body a chance to respond to something before the big thing is coming.

    23. JF

      Yeah.

    24. BK

      The big thing is your boss is gonna say no. Your-

    25. JF

      Correct

    26. BK

      ... girlfriend's gonna say no. Those are high-stake situations sometimes. So every time you say no to your kid, and hold the line lovingly and firmly, they're both possible, you're getting your kid ready. And I think, yeah, what I want parents to know is if for the first time at 20 they're hearing the word no, it's kind of unfair to expect my kid to just react well to that when it, it probably feels like an assault on their body 'cause they've [laughs] never really-

    27. JF

      Right

    28. BK

      ... heard that before.

    29. JF

      If you want your kid to learn how to handle being told no, you need to start with maybe telling them no.

    30. BK

      And then stop talking.

  16. 1:09:31 – 1:14:07

    School pickup connection: silence, presence-as-action, and the ‘correction’ trick

    1. JF

      Um, I wanna f- uh, switch to school really quick.

    2. BK

      Okay.

    3. JF

      What, what can a parent do w- in the... Let me rephrase that. What should a parent be doing in the first five minutes that they pick up their kid?

    4. BK

      Oh, such a good question. I actually think the first five minutes with your kid in the morning, the first five minutes you see them after school, and the last five minutes-

    5. JF

      Ooh

    6. BK

      ... of their day are just the three most impactful times.

    7. JF

      I agree.

    8. BK

      Sometimes I think, can I just be a good parent 15 minutes of the-

    9. JF

      Yeah. [laughs]

    10. BK

      ... 10, what if it's two? Um, so it depends on your kid's age, but, but actually it's probably mostly true. The biggest thing when you pick up your kid is to be available without questions and without an agenda. Okay?

    11. JF

      Just if you can, that means when you pick 'em up, quiet.

    12. BK

      Yeah.

    13. JF

      All right. I love it.

    14. BK

      It's so hard because we have so... We wanna know. We wanna know about their day, but, I, I mean, I'm sure you too. You travel all the time. You're doing a million things, and you come home, and if the first thing is, "Jefferson, how was your day? Who was your guest on your podcast? What'd you eat for lunch?"

    15. JF

      Yeah.

    16. BK

      "Tell me who you played with today. Did you end up following up with this doctor?" You're like, "Ah," you know?

    17. JF

      [laughs] Yeah, I wouldn't like it.

    18. BK

      Um, and it's not because anyone's wrong. It's just because i-i, you've just done a lot. You need to transition, right? And so I think sometimes the most loving thing we can do and we can show is just show up, right? Um, and just try not to have so much of an agenda. Know you're gonna get your questions answered probably in those last five minutes before bed, even though it's inconvenient-

    19. JF

      Yes

    20. BK

      ... when kids tell you everything. [laughs]

    21. JF

      It is.

    22. BK

      Um, and, and I think the thing I want parents to know is, [laughs] like, presence is an action.

    23. JF

      Tell me more.

    24. BK

      So you want me to just do nothing? You want me to j- like, that's... You want me to just do nothing?

    25. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    26. BK

      I think just do nothing is a very funny phrase. Do you know how hard it is in 2026 to do nothing? Do you know how hard I have to work to stay quiet in front of my kids?

    27. JF

      Yeah.

    28. BK

      I am doing nothing on the outside, and I am doing everything on the inside to regulate my anxiety, my own needs, my own emotions. The irony is when we all do a lot on the outside, we ask all those questions, or our kid is mad at us. We're like, "You can't talk to me that way."

    29. JF

      Right, right.

    30. BK

      It looks like I'm doing something on the outside, and I'm doing nothing on the inside.

  17. 1:14:07 – 1:17:10

    The biggest parenting misconception: perfection—repair is the real skill

    1. JF

      What is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to parenthood?

    2. BK

      That you have to get it right all the time, because I just want to establish, getting it right all the time would be bad for your kid.

    3. JF

      Mm.

    4. BK

      Forget not being possible, the model of a relationship we have with our kid forms the foundation for how they think about love in the future. So I don't want my kid to go into adulthood thinking, "Who's gonna get it right all the time? Who's gonna be perfectly attuned to my needs?"

    5. JF

      Mm.

    6. BK

      And so repair is really the most important part of good parenting, and you can't repair if you don't mess up. So if you think about that, if you're gonna try to get good at repair, step one is yelling, is snapping, which doesn't mean, "Great, I'm gonna do more of that." [laughs]

    7. JF

      Right. Right.

    8. BK

      It means when that happens, 'cause I'm human, I now have the opportunity to do the healthiest thing for my kid's future. I can go and say, "I'm sorry I yelled. I'm sure that felt bad. I'm working on staying calmer even when I'm frustrated."

    9. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. BK

      And that is so powerful to a kid.

    11. JF

      When you say repair is one of the number one things-

    12. BK

      Mm-hmm

    13. JF

      ... that you have to be able to show in parenthood necessarily means you have to mess up, and they need to see you mess up.

    14. BK

      Yeah.

    15. JF

      The phrase that I use to model repair with my kids is, I will say, "Daddy didn't say that very nice, did he? I, I, I could've said that better."

    16. BK

      Yeah.

    17. JF

      And what I have found, Dr. Becky, is, not yet in my daughter, but my son, he'll say, "I didn't say that very nice, Dad."

    18. BK

      Mm.

    19. JF

      "I need to say that again." And so it's that, like, little... But, see, we would never, we would have never gotten to that place had I not raised my voice or not said it as kindly and been perfect.

    20. BK

      Uh, that, that's right.

    21. JF

      So you have to see it, the, the, the, they have to see the humanness.

    22. BK

      That's right. And I, I think the other thing there is the words we use with our kids become the words they use with themselves and the words they use with others. It's not a surprise he says the exact words you do.

    23. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    24. BK

      And it's also not a surprise your daughter will probably take double the amount of time to get there, given her personality. [laughs]

    25. JF

      [laughs] Right.

    26. BK

      But she will, so don't doubt it.

    27. JF

      Yeah.

    28. BK

      It really will, and you're right. You couldn't have ever shared those words, which, by the way, your son will use for so many years after he's out of your house.

    29. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. BK

      That could have never happened if you were perfect, always calm, always saying the right thing Dad. So yeah, it's such a gift.

  18. 1:17:10 – 1:19:12

    When kids say “I can’t”: preloading the script and shrinking the first step

    1. JF

      Love repair. What do you say to your kid when they say, "I can't. I, I can't do it"?

    2. BK

      Mm. Okay, I think there's what you say in the moment, but I think the power is what you say before those moments. There's only so... You can only be so effective in a hard moment-

    3. JF

      Mm-hmm

    4. BK

      ... in any situation. So in a calm moment, find your kid, and truly say this to them when it's calm. "By the way, do you know that whenever I'm frustrated with something hard, I have this voice in my brain, and it starts to trick me. Instead of it saying, 'This is so hard,' it says, 'I can't.' That might happen to you. It might happen to you today when you do your homework."

    5. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    6. BK

      "Could you let me know if it comes?" I'm actually preloading a story for them, and their relationship with I can't, I really mean this, is forever different, because instead of it coming by surprise and taking over, they're looking for it. You know how insanely different that is? Now my kid is doing math homework, and they will be able to say, "Dad, I heard that I can't voice." That is mental health, your ability to recognize something before it's taken over. Then in the moment, I think you can reframe it. "I can't." "You're right. This is a really hard puzzle. You're right. It's really hard to start an essay."

    7. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    8. BK

      And then I would get practical. My second grade teacher told me this. I will never forget it. I use it with my kids all the time. "If something feels too hard to do, it just means the first step isn't small enough."

    9. JF

      Mm.

    10. BK

      "So what is the first step?" "Well, I have to write this essay." "Oh, I couldn't do that either. What's smaller? A paragraph. That sounds intimidating. What about a sentence? What about a word?" And usually when you make something small, your kid can do it.

    11. JF

      If you can put it into a story or a voice or a other, then it's, it's not I as a person cannot. It's I'm hearing the voice that says that I can't.

    12. BK

      Well-

    13. JF

      Very different thing

    14. BK

      ... that's any emotion or thought. As soon as you can s- kind of see that thought as a passenger in your car-

    15. JF

      Mm-hmm

    16. BK

      ... instead of the driver of your car-

    17. JF

      I like that

    18. BK

      ... it changes.

    19. JF

      Dr. Becky, thank you so much for coming on the show.

    20. BK

      Thank you.

    21. JF

      I admire you a ton.

    22. BK

      Oh.

    23. JF

      Thank you so much.

    24. BK

      So fun.

    25. JF

      Awesome.

Episode duration: 1:19:12

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