How to Shut Down Someone Trying to Provoke You

1. 0:00 – 0:59

   Defusing a provocative family comment with neutral “wet blanket” phrases

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      When a family member throws something out there that's kind of hurtful, whether it be politics related or religious related, just to, to rise or to hurt or to wound you, how to best approach that, not taking the bait, being a wet blanket, all of those things, um, just some phrases that could maybe help 'cause it, it is hurtful and not saying anything, you kind of feel like you're left carrying it. So I'd appreciate your, your thoughts on that. Thanks so much.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:29

      When that family member is trying to put something out in the middle of the room knowing that it's gonna ruffle some feathers, knowing that it's might pour some, put some salt in the wound, this is where I want you to go. Number one, very easy wet blanket neutral statements is the, "Noted. Got it. Thank you for that." One of my favorites is, "Maybe so." Yeah, maybe so. Has a very quick, easy way of just, womp, settling the conversation

2. 0:59 – 2:30

   Setting a clear boundary—and naming the consequence if they keep pushing

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:59

      because you're saying, "I'm not agreeing, I'm not disagreeing. Yeah, maybe it is. Maybe it's not. Yeah, maybe so," or, "That's interesting." These short neutral phrases that they can't do anything with. They can't fight that. They can't argue against that. When you say, "Maybe so," th- there's nothing they can say to try and push against that. Number two, if you need to, put up a simple boundary, okay? Put up a simple boundary of, "Hey, I'm, I'm not gonna discuss politics at the dinner table. If this is where it's going, you can count me out. I don't discuss religion, uh, you know, during this... I'm not gonna discuss this topic, this issue, this whatever. Whatever it is, I'm, I'm not going to discuss this today or here or during our time together. If you are full steam ahead, if you are insistent, if that's the only thing you wanna talk about, then," see, this is like the third step of the boundary, "then I, I'm gonna need to step away from the conversation. Or then I'm gonna, I'll be involved. You can count me in at a later date on the conversation, later today. Or then I'm gonna, I'm gonna need to leave the room, or this conversation is over. I'm gonna need to put an end to the conversation." Whatever it is, the consequence of saying, "Hey, then you can count, you can count me out." A simple boundary that's said light-hearted can go a very long way. Number three, one of my

3. 2:30 – 4:14

   When it hurts: redirect to connection or call out intent with a question

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:30

      favorites that I love to use, and I use this on my own family members sometimes when I know my grandfather just, he's throwing a bomb right there in the middle of the conversation knowing full well what he's doing, is I have to see that most of the time they're doing that to feel something. They wanna feel engaged. They wanna feel relevant. They wanna feel like they have some kind of control over not only their life, but over you as well. They just wanna feel something again, so they're looking for somebody to spar with. They don't really care about the result. They don't care about, you know, what it r- really all means. They're just looking for somebody to spar with, to have an, a, a, a conversation with because it's engaging to them. It's fun to them in this sense. Uh, it's, it's like people who kind of play wrestle. They know they're not gonna really do anything with it. Now, what I hear you saying is different. You're saying, "Hey, this hurts. This hurts me." That's different. If, if there's a actual pain and a wound there, that's very different. What I like to say is, "I'd rather hear about you." So I'll go, "You know what, Grandfather? I, I'd rather hear about you. Hey, Papa, I'd rather, [laughs] I'd rather hear about you." Now, that may not be true for you. You may not really wanna hear about them. That's, that's different. Then I'd go to the boundary because if it's a true wound, you need to state that, "Hey, what you're bringing up is hurtful to me." Or maybe you need to pose it as a question, right? "Did you say that to, to hurt me? Did you say that to upset me? Are you bringing that up to create a rift or create some drama or create friction right now?" And usually when you ask that kind of question, they'll go, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, no, not at all," and they'll, they'll back away, or they're gonna lean into it, and therefore, it's gonna let you know whether or not you need to have a very hard boundary to stay out of that conversation. Awesome question.

4. 4:14 – 6:52

   Liking yourself without needing others’ approval

   1. SPSpeaker4:14

      How do you like yourself when other people don't like you and you've convinced yourself you're not likable? I've taken-- I've tried to take communication courses 'cause I figured it's gotta be in the communication style, but I'm also not a person who believes in, you know, wining and dining someone just to get them to like me. So how do you learn to like yourself? There's a lot of family that won't even speak to me. I just, I don't know. You can only take too much, so much of it. You can only take so much of it. I'm at that point. Thank you.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher4:50

      Well, let me be the first to say I like you. I'm glad you called. I like you. Now, how do you, [laughs] how do you, how do you like that? I hear you saying, "How do I like myself when other people don't like me?" In other words, you're making, uh, someone else liking you the condition by which you like yourself. That is the opposite of what I want you to do. It is not the other person's value of you that derives, makes, changes, uh, has control over your perspective of whether you like yourself. That's, that's not how it works. It's not, "I'm not okay if... I'm not okay with me if they're not okay with me." That's not how it works. We're gonna flip it. So instead of Jefferson, "How do you like yourself when other people don't like you?" I want to hear, "I really like myself, and that helps me like other people." We're just turning that, that phrase right on its head. It's not, "How do I like myself when other people don't?" Uh, eliminate the condition. I like myself, full stop, period. I like myself. It's not, it's not conditioned on anything else. It's not prefaced on anything else. It's just me. Do you like yourself to the exclusion of anything else in the world? Do you believe that you alone have value? Then, separate sentence, that helps me like other people. The love for myself helps me love other people. I like you. There are other people listening who like you just because the question that you posed. So that eliminates the condition right there. Right there, it proves it false that people don't like you, right? Now, what I hear you saying is, "I struggle with some self-confidence of feeling like I have to manage everybody else's feelings. I don't feel like people really

5. 6:52 – 7:53

   Abundance vs. scarcity mindset in relationships and self-confidence

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:52

      like me." Th-this is where I need you to really look within yourself and say, "Do I like other people? Do I like other people, or is my like for others only limited by how much I feel like I'm getting from somebody else?" Okay? There are two s- types of mindsets I want you to research, I want you to look at, and one is an abundance mindset, and one is a scarcity mindset. And I want to ask-- I want you to ask the question when you're looking at this, "Which one is me, and which one do I wanna be? Is it possible that I can just say I like everybody, whether or not they like me or not?" Because most of the time, people like people who like them, right? Or am I on a scarcity mindset that says, "I don't think that they like me, and therefore I don't like me, and nothing is good that I like." See, that, that is, that is a very pessimistic attitude that I wanna erase, okay? It

6. 7:53 – 9:31

   Sponsor break: LMNT hydration during travel

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:53

      is not, how do I like myself when other people don't like me? It's I like me, and that helps me like and love on other people. I love me, therefore, I love other people, regardless of anything that happens in return. Before we keep going, I wanna take a moment to tell you about LMNT. When I am traveling, and my family typically is always coming w-with me, we want to make sure that we stay hydrated. And because if somebody's dehydrated, especially after you've been on a plane or traveling, everything goes south in a hurry, and then people [chuckles] get, uh, grumpy, and it doesn't go well. One thing that we love that we put into our water bottles when we're traveling is LMNT. It comes in this little bitty dry packet, uh, that you rip off, and I put about half of it into a bottle of water, and that's what I use. Now, my kids, they love the seltzer water from LMNT. They call it salty water, salty drink. And we kinda use it as a dessert 'cause they, they love it. There's a pineapple flavor and a black cherry flavor that my kids absolutely cannot get enough of. I think my son drinks one probably every two days. That's how much he likes it in our house. My favorite flavor is the lemonade. They also have this kind of Honor- Arnold Palmer flavor that is both iced tea and lemonade that I really like. Anyway, it's knowing that it's zero sugar, it's good stuff, and it's gonna hydrate you. And right now, they're offering our listeners a free sample pack with any order. Right now, you can go head on over to LMNT. It's L-M-N-T is how it's spelled. So you can go to drinkLMNT.com/jefferson to try it risk-free. That's drinkLMNT.com/jefferson. And now, let's keep going.

7. 9:31 – 11:51

   Autism & sensory sensitivities: it’s not your job to make them ‘get it’

   1. SPSpeaker9:31

      I just wanted to say I'm a big fan of your podcast, your YouTube videos, and I also recently purchased your book. Your book-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher9:38

      Thank you

   3. SPSpeaker9:38

      ... has been a game changer for me, and I've been practicing all the phrases in my life, and it's been really amazing. And I just wanna express some heartfelt thanks to that because it's something that I've really struggled with in my life, like setting boundaries. I'm autistic, and I have sensory sensitivities. And basically, my question for you is, what is the best way to enforce boundaries around people who just don't get it? I've seen this a lot in my family where I will say, "Hey, this is too loud. I need to wear earplugs," or, "This texture is the wrong texture. I can't wear this clothing." And unfortunately, I've dealt with, like, a lot of gaslighting in my family around sensory sensitivities because people who I grew up with aren't autistic. They don't get it. Sometimes they'll take personal offense to things like that too. What is the best way to enforce boundaries for sens-sensory sensitivities? And furthermore, what is the best way to make it clear that I'm not budging on those boundaries, that I'm gonna continue wearing earplugs, that I'm gonna continue protecting myself against the sensory environment around people who don't understand, around people who might be ignorant or even intentionally harmful in other cases as well?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher10:50

      First off, I want you to know what you just said to me took an incredible amount of courage. This is a topic and issue I do not think it's spoken and mentioned nearly enough. It's not nearly enough of those who have sensory type issues, whether it's visual, whether it's auditory, whatever it is, texture, over-sensory issues. And I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for bringing this up so we can talk about this and bring more awareness to, to this topic. Really, truly, thank you. Here's what I want you to know. Number one, it is not your responsibility for them to get it. It is not your responsibility that they get it. My grandfather used to tell me, "I can only tell it to you. I can't understand it for you." That's not your job to make them understand, to get them to, to, to reach this point where they understand it, they get it. It doesn't matter how much information you pour into them. That is-- Whether or not that light bulb clicks, you can't go reach across and click it for

8. 11:51 – 13:51

   Reframing accommodations positively to reduce shame and over-explaining

   1. JFJefferson Fisher11:51

      them. They, they're gonna have to do that for themselves. So I need you to know inside that you're doing the right thing for you, and it is not your job, not yours to carry, to make the other person understand. Number two, I want to flip The way you're viewing the sensory issue. Instead of feeling like, "Oh, these are my-- Sorry, these are my, my earplugs. So sorry." No, I need you to have a, "Hey, the-these are not earplugs, these are my listening ears." Like, th-this is whatever shirt it is, "Oh, I'm sorry, it's too touchy," it's, "This is my feel-good shirt," that there are shirts that feel good, and these are, these are-- this is part of my feel-good club. I, I need you to have a, a more playful, positive mindset of how you're approaching it. Why? Because that makes you think more positive. It makes you take more ownership of, yes, this is what I'm doing for, for me and me alone, not for other people. I'm not setting myself up to where all I'm doing is managing somebody else's expectation. You feel me? So whenever you are under that tension of, "Oh, I need to explain it to them somehow," you don't. First off, no, you don't. If you want to, and that is if you want to, state it in a positive relationship that brings levity, that they're gonna feel more comfortable and you're gonna feel more comfortable communicating about it. In other words, it's like if somebody asks, you know, "What, what do you, what do you need these for?" "Oh, these help me keep the sad sounds out and keep the happy sounds in." Right? "These keep-- help, uh, keep loud noises out so that I can keep my focus in." Where you're able to stay in it and, and explain it in a way that they might be able to understand a little bit more rather than going all into feeling like you have the burden to go, "Oh, well, I have..." Uh, you know, you press record and you're always playing the tape of, "Well, I have autism and of course I have sensory issues, and I'm..." Like, you feel like you have to provide this formula for them. It doesn't have to go that, that far. I want you to

9. 13:51 – 16:00

   A boundary script for pushback: ‘I need…’ + ‘If… then…’

   1. JFJefferson Fisher13:51

      keep it really high level surface to where you can say, "This is-- this helps me stay more focused. It helps me listen a little bit better. This helps me feel more comfortable where we're at right now, and this helps me feel more present." Right? Rather than feeling like you have, have all this baggage of over-explaining in it. Number three, when it comes to the boundary, which I love how you put that, you know, how, how do I assert this kind of boundary? And let's say you're in a family situation and some member makes some kind of passive-aggressive comment of y- what you need in that moment. If it's too loud or you're, you're needing to step away or put earplugs in or whatever it is. The, the sensory alarm is, is setting off. I need you to be able to say, "I need..." Right? Beginning with I. "I need to make sure that I wear my, my listening ears or my earplugs," whatever you wanna call them. Then it's if. "If my earplugs are threatening to you in some way, I'm gonna need to step away from this environment. I'm gonna need to step-- I need to take a step back from this conversation. I'm gonna need to make sure that I go into the other room for a little bit." Right? I like the, if this is threatening to you in some way. The reason I like it is because it calls to attention of, hey, are you, are you really threatened by this, or is it just because it's, it's not common for you and therefore you don't like it 'cause it's change and it's not exactly like you are? But does that mean that it's, it's threatening to you in some way? To me is a, a way of, of calling that out, speaking that out. But no matter what it is, I wanna make sure that you have a, a positive relationship, a self-esteem grounding relationship with the issues that are yours, and rather than feeling like you have to manage everybody else's expectations. It is not your responsibility for them to get it.

10. 16:00 – 18:46

    Estranged father and wedding conflict after cancer: validating the boundary

    1. SPSpeaker16:00

       Hi, Jefferson. I am taking space for my father, and I need help deciding how to move forward after what happened surrounding my wedding. Our relationship was complicated long before this. My grandparents largely raised me. My father started a new family, moved away, and left my brother and me in New Hampshire. So he believes he fulfilled his responsibilities because we were financially cared for, but emotionally he was not there. I've never confronted him about how deeply my past has affected me. Instead, I've continued trying to have a relationship with him and gave him a lot of passes. I went through cancer and chemotherapy in twenty twenty-four, and after everything I survived, I was finally getting married and having a small wedding with only twenty people. My father pressured me to invite his wife, even though she has not been a part of my life for more than a decade. Without going into too many details, she has serious mental issues, and her behavior caused my father, my half-brothers, and me significant pain. She's never met my fiancé, and she's been completely absent in my life for the past fifteen years. When I told him that she was not invited due to the wedding being twenty people, my father said he had to think about whether he would attend. I was hurt by this and gave him two days, and he still said he needed more time. He said he wouldn't have a good time without her and that attending alone could damage his marriage. During the same conversation, he repeatedly mentioned his health issues. He kept saying it was my decision, but made me feel responsible for his health, his marriage, and his unhappiness, even if I-- like if I did not invite her. It was extremely manipulative, and instead of celebrating his daughter that survived cancer and she was finally getting married, he made the wedding about himself. The conflict escalated. He screamed at me and my brother, and I ended up telling him not to come. I canceled the wedding and decided to elope in Italy, which is a much better decision, but I'm not talking to him at all, and I'm taking space. I'm deciding whether I want a limited relationship or no relationship at all. People keep saying, "But he is your father," as though that means I must continue accepting this. How do I know when it is time to stop hoping that a parent will become the person you need him to be? How do I decide whether to leave the door open or walk away? And how do I stop he is your father from making the decision for me? Thank you.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher18:16

       First off, I want you to know that I am immensely proud of you because you had to make a very hard decision with whether or not he was coming to your wedding, and it sounds like that, that rift, that friction changed the special day you were wanting to have for you eloping and celebrating a new life together and, and that caused... That almost put a bruise, you know, on th- on, on that apple for you to not be able to have that moment that you wanted, and you had to do

11. 18:46 – 19:47

    ‘But he’s your father’—why DNA doesn’t guarantee access to your life

    1. JFJefferson Fisher18:46

       something different. And for you to put up that boundary and stand firm in it, I'm very proud of that. I think you made the right call in, in that very, very difficult decision. Number two, somebody being your parent, just by the, the simple fact that they are your mother or your father, and their DNA is inside of you, and they played some role in creating you, that does not earn them the spot of being in that role in your life. Because he has been absent throughout your entire childhood, that does not earn him the right in being present in all of your adulthood. That spot has to be earned. It is not freely given. So when somebody says, "But he's your dad," that, that should be the same as saying, "But he's a, a, a human male." Like, it does not earn that spot. So I think you're exactly right of the,

12. 19:47 – 21:18

    Decision test: does the parent take ownership—and get help if rebuilding

    1. JFJefferson Fisher19:47

       the care and love that you receive from somebody is not something that is just... It comes because they are a mom or a dad or a, a caregiver in some way. That spot is earned through love, attention, and connection, and being present emotionally and physically throughout your life. Number three, how do you know whether or not to cut him off, to continue in this estrangement, or to bring it back? Here's the test that I would give, is one, can he take ownership of the pain that he caused you in your childhood? The, the original source to the root of everything where it is, where he abandoned you, left you with grandparents and said, "Hands off." If he is not willing to go back in time and start owning it, meaning he's using words of affirmation, words of accountability, words of ownership. If he's not willing to do that now, he will not ever be able to do that. And if he's not able to, okay, there is your answer that it is much more practical and much safer for your own security, your own peace of mind to continue in that separation. That doesn't mean the door's not gonna be open, and we... I, I would, I would hope and pray that he is going to realize the pain that he's caused. And you know what I would truly recommend is that this would... To me, this is absolutely a relationship that would require another professional, a, a therapist, a psychologist that is in the room with you and your father being able to

13. 21:18 – 22:47

    Sponsor break: MASA Chips offer and product highlights

    1. JFJefferson Fisher21:18

       break this all down, where you get the voice, "I need to hear this. I need to hear this. I need you to understand the pain that has caused me." Because it all starts at the, at the root. Everything else you mentioned, those are all just symptoms of a underlying cause, and that is a father that abandoned you early on, and just because he was your father does not right to earn him that slot later on in life. Super proud of the steps that you're taking. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about MASA Chips. That's right. I am telling you about chips because these things are that good. Anytime we get some of these in the house, I know they are gone. So if I'm gonna eat [chuckles] some, I better eat them as soon as I see them, or my family is going to devour them. Our favorite flavor, my favorite flavor, is just the original, is they have the original and also the white corn chip. My kids love the churro flavor naturally, and also Sierra really loves the, the blue corn chip. What makes these different than any other tortilla chip is that they're made with beef tallow, and so they taste really good, and you can eat several of them and don't feel that bloated bunch of seed oil stuff that you might get from other brands where you realize, oh my gosh, you've eaten half a bag, and now you're gonna not gonna be feeling good for a while. MASA Chips are fantastic. They're small batch. They're great. Right now you can go to masachips.com. That's M-A-S-A, masachips.com/jefferson and get up to 25% off your order right now. Masachips.com/jefferson. And now let's keep going.

14. 22:47 – 28:42

    Spousal violence during anxiety episodes: safety first, then professional help

    1. SPSpeaker22:47

       Been married almost 50 years. My wife has anxiety, extraordinary mood swings, and she becomes violent when she's in an anxiety mood swing, and she's hit me a whole number of times, and she's hitting me again. And my question, my direct question is, what do I do? I don't wanna call the police. She's very uptight when she's in that situation, and it's anxiety, I understand. What should I do? Should I leave the house? Should I do nothing? I try to talk to her, can't talk to her when she's in that state of mind. But anyway, my question is, what do I do? Thank you for listening.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher23:24

       Man, thank you for, for that question. I, I wanna... Man. You're in a situation that's more common than people wanna share. Um, and so if you're listening right now and you can relate to abusive situations in relationships, can you just give him some love right now? Just tell him that you see him, you hear him. That's a really hard situation when there is abuse with the person you love. You've been married 50 years. 50 years. Question of what do you do I'm gonna lay out the options, and it's the most obvious one first is, one, you have the full legal right to call the law, police, and report domestic abuse where the police would come, step in, make a report, and in certain situations, there could be anything from, um, some type of restraining order to arrest to you, you name it. If, if the injury is bad enough, that might sway how you feel because I hear you going, "I don't wanna do that. This is who I love." Yeah. I will tell you it is an option. You do not have to live in fear. You do not have to live in fear of imminent threat to your, your body, okay? You should not be living in a state of, of fear where you're, you're physically afraid of being injured. That's not okay. That's not okay. Just know that's an option. Two, my recommendation is if it gets to that situation with your spouse where she starts throwing things at you, I'm talking bad things, things that are sharp, could cause a lot of damage, you need to leave. That does not mean you're giving up. That means you are taking space away to make sure that you're protecting both of you. Because like you said, you said this is when she's in that state of mind, meaning what that tells me is there's a wave. There's a up and it crashes, and then it's gone because it's... it sounds like it's something very mental. It's her anxiety. It's a lot of things bubbling on. Again, I don't know the context. I don't know what y'all argue about. I don't know what topic it is or what's happened in your past that has, has gotten her feeling like this or what the subject is at all. All right? But what I do know is her hitting you, being physically violent is not okay. So if you do not want to call the police and call law enforcement, the other option is for you to leave. Leave the room, lock the door. Leave the house, go somewhere else until that state of mind has... till that wave has crashed and gone down, okay? Until, until that wave is over and that her logical brain has, has come back on and engaged. You cannot live in fear of always wondering are you talking to Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde? Y- like the two different types of personalities. And, and truth is w- you might be dealing with a psychological personality disorder. I do not know. What I do know is aside from telling you, too, that you can leave the room, which I would highly encourage you to do, do not stay present to where you are in physical imminent danger, is three, get help from a professional. That means you need to say, "I cannot be in this relationship if you are not willing to speak with a professional for all of us in how to handle these episodes that happen, how to find other ways to manage our anger, manage our conversations, manage our arguments." Whatever it is, there, there has to be a path because what you're living in is not... It, it's, it i- it is untenable. You cannot live in, in what you're in right now. So one, yes, you have the option to call law enforcement. Two, I would absolutely leave the room. Leave wherever the, the, the interaction, the fight is happening. And three, seek professional help because there's no words or phrases I'm gonna be able to tell you that's gonna calm that situation. So when you ask me, what do I do? Leave the room and be able to go seek professional help. Now, if she's unwilling to get help, then that is a big question of whether or not you'd be willing to separate, whether that... this marriage needs to exist in the, in the form that it exists because, uh, there, there is no excuse for physical imminent harm

Episode duration: 28:43