How To Stop Someone From Talking Over You (3 Simple Steps) | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 1:01

   Why being “cute” or louder fails when someone talks over you

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      Have you ever been talking out loud and while you're talking somebody says, "Well, you know what I think is..." and they just run right over you? What's the first thing you think? You go, "Oh, okay. I guess I'll stop talking." Now all of a sudden they are controlling the floor. Now they're dominating the conversation, and you really don't have another window, and you feel defeated. What do you do when somebody is talking over you? Well, there's a wrong way to go about it and a right way to go about it, and I'm gonna teach you both. Now, if you listen to the rest of this podcast, you are going to learn exactly how to stop it when somebody tries to dominate the conversation. You ready? The wrong way to go about this is when you start to yell and start to try and get more attention to you. Somebody starts interrupting you, and the first thing you say is, "Oh, excuse me. Am I interrupting you?" Or, "Oh, uh, uh, does the end of m- my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?" That kind of trying to be cute language, that never works. Let me tell you why it doesn't work: because it makes you look desperate.

2. 1:01 – 2:32

   Step 1: Keep talking—stay steady and grounded

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:01

      So whenever somebody is dominating the conversation and interrupts you, the worst thing you can try and do is try to take it back from them when you try to out-attention them. That never works. It always puts you in the weaker position. Why? Because it looks like you're grasping for control. That is the wrong way to go about it. Instead, this is what I want you to do when somebody tries to dominate the conversation and talk over you. You ready? Number one: I want you to continue talking exactly as you were. Keep the same volume, keep the same tempo, keep the same pace. Keep talking just like you were. Do not stop. So when everybody, whenever that person at the board meeting and y- wherever you are, they start to try and catch in and start to talk over you, "Oh, I think..." "Well, what about..." and they, and they try and talk over you, keep talking exactly where you are. This works because it shows a discrepancy between your very even-keel, controlled, I'm gonna continue talking no matter what you say, even if you interrupt me. I am planted. I am grounded. I do not care what you say. Whenever you keep that same plane and they are just yeah, yeah, yeah, barking way up here trying to get your attention, trying to get everybody else's attention, it shows that discrepancy of you being very controlled and them trying to grasp for control. They're trying to get that attention from everybody else while you are the one staying calm and controlled. So number one is continue to talk. Don't stop talking.

3. 2:32 – 3:34

   Step 2: Don’t raise your voice—avoid the shouting-match trap

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:32

      All right? Number two: what I want you to do is resist the temptation to raise your voice. We always want to try and out-talk the other person whenever somebody starts raising their voice. It's very natural. It's very easy for us because we're trying to kind of, uh, jump over them. We're trying to... It's like playing checkers. You wanna kinda jump over them. You wanna get on top of the conversation. You want to dominate it in some way. Anytime you do that, all it does is escalate them to talk even more. That's how shouting matches happen. Like if you, uh, watch the news and you see the talking heads on the news and the people that are just fighting, just arguing to argue, or if you watch, like, sports commentary maybe on ESPN or something and, and you hear people taking two different positions and somebody's interrupting the other, and somebody's interrupting the other, and they just start kinda yelling back and forth. Who's listening? Nobody. What do you do? You change the channel. Nobody's learning anything. Nobody can get anything from that because it's just a power grab for attention.

4. 3:34 – 5:36

   Step 3: Use their name to create a window, then label the behavior

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:34

      So you're going to resist that. All right? You're going to resist that by continuing to keep your volume exactly as it is. Why? Again, it shows that discrepancy. That's what you want. Number three. We're just swinging right at it today. We're going, we're going straight for the throat. Any time that that person is trying to dominate the conversation or interrupt or continue talking and you don't feel like you have a window. Let's say we're at a, a board meeting and they're just continuing to talk, and you don't feel like you have a window into it. Here's the key: use their name. People love to hear their name. There's no sweeter sound than the sound of their own name. So if they're talking, and they're droning on, and they've kinda taken away the conversation and gone on with their own voice and with their own subject, and they think what they're saying is the most important thing, I want you to use their name. Use their name. So let's say, uh, it's me. Let's me, uh, I'm the big bad guy right now, and I am... I've just taken over the conversation. You're talking to me, and I go, [laughs] "Well, you know what I think is you, you ought to go, you know what you should do." And I just start going on away in my own views, opinions, and I'm talking to an audience of one. If you need to get my attention, what I want you to say is, "Jefferson." That'll pop my head quick. "Jefferson." It's not raising your voice. You're not saying it angry. You're not saying it too d- um, [clicks tongue] tender, almost too hesitant. You're gonna say it strong. You're gonna say it clear. "Jefferson." If I keep talking, say it again. "Jefferson." Even if you need to raise the volume a little bit. It's gonna get my attention. It's going to get the other person's attention. They are going to stop because they hear their name. That's where, that's the window. You've now created the window into that conversation where I want you to use the phrase, "Talk over." Say something like, "It's not helpful when you talk over me," or, "I feel like you're talking over me," or, "I can't hear you when you talk over me." I say the very similar thing when somebody's interrupting you,

5. 5:36 – 6:36

   Sponsorship break: LMNT hydration

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:36

      which in this case is very related. "I can't hear you when you talk over me." This episode is also brought to you by LMNT. LMNT makes hydrating easy, simple, and clean. If you're like me, you're always on the go, especially when I'm traveling, I need to do better about hydrating, especially in and out of airports, but it's not all that fun sometimes to just drink a bottle of water. So I use a little packet of LMNT. I've been using it for several months now and I really like it. My favorite flavor is lemonade salt. I pour it right in. It's like lemon lime. It's tangy, it's sweet, and it always gets the job done. I like it because there's no added dyes, there's no added sugars, just good clean electrolytes. LMNT is for people on a mission, whether you're a parent, an athlete, a business leader. And for all of my listeners, you get a free sample pack for every order that you get. So a free sample pack with every order. You can go to drinklmnt.com/jefferson and try it risk-free. That's drinklmnt/jefferson

6. 6:36 – 7:37

   Why you must address talking-over immediately (and how direct to be)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:36

      and try it risk-free. Anytime you're using that phrase talk over, it's cluing them into exactly what they're doing. Sometimes people don't un- understand what they're doing. They don't realize what they're doing. It may be it's not on purpose, but that's beside the point. The, the, the fact is they're doing it, so you have to take action. You can't just be quiet and let them continue to talk and, and you, and you feel less and you, then you feel more dismissed. That kind of behavior is something that you need to catch immediately. You can't let it keep going on. Why? Because you're otherwise establishing a pattern of how they can treat you, how they can talk to you, that it's just a given that your opinion does not matter as much as theirs. But if you catch it, "Jefferson, I can't hear you when you talk over me. It's not helpful for you to talk over me. Jefferson, are you interested in my thoughts or do you wanna talk over me?" It depends how direct you need to be. I, I, you're

7. 7:37 – 9:39

   Real-life example: the law-firm meeting where “David” stopped interrupting

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:37

      the one who knows the personality of the person that you're dealing with. But that is exactly how I want you to handle when somebody is talking over you. I had something very similar when I was a young associate at a law firm. There was a, another associate of mine and she had great ideas, but she never felt like she could really share them in the meetings that we'd have, and we'd have other associate meetings. There'd be about eight to 10 of us and she didn't feel like she could really use her voice that way. She was much more hesitant. But still, she had wonderful ideas and there are times where I would kind of focus the conversation to tee it up so she could talk, but at the same time I didn't always wanna be the crutch that goes, "Oh, she d-" Let me help guide the conversation to her. So I talked to her about it, said, "This is what I want you to do. The next time David starts to bounce over onto your conversation, I want you to use his name and watch what happens." Sure enough, while she's giving a, an idea of what she thinks we should try and do for the upcoming year, David immediately kinda goes on the attack. You ever had somebody who in a meeting, specifically in a group, that just wants to always feel like th- they can go right for you? They can go right for you every time that, uh, for some reason you're, you're their scapegoat. For some reason you're the outlet for them that they, as soon as you start talking, boom, there they, there they go. Something about it triggers you, triggers them. It was the same way w- in this relationship. And so she started talking. Boom, David goes in and first thing she had said, she did was continued to talk exactly how she was. What did it do? It didn't make her look weak. It made him look weak because it looked like he was trying to get in in the conversation and she was totally ignoring it. Who we listened to? We started listening to her, not him because it showed everybody in the room what he was doing was not ac- acceptable as a group, as a community. He was now making himself kind of as the outsider. What she did next as he continues to talk is she used his name.

8. 9:39 – 11:10

   Quick recap of the 3-step anti-interruption method

   1. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

      She used his name and he snapped to attention. "David, you're talking over me." That's all she said. You know what he did? Immediately apologized. Why? Because he's looking around and seeing everybody kind of agrees. Nobody was fighting. Nobody was sticking up for him. He's like, "Oh, I'm, I'm, you know what? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go, go ahead." Never again did he do that. So I want you to really think about this. The next time that somebody is trying to dominate a conversation, some- somebody's trying to speak over you, number one, what I want you to do is to continue to talk. Two, resist the temptation to raise your voice to outtalk them because that's a weaker position ultimately. Three, what I want to make sure that you do is realize the power of somebody's name. So if they keep on talking, use their name. It is going to snap their attention. It's gonna make them stop because they need to hear what comes after their name, why you're using the sweet sound of their name. That's your window to be able to communicate exactly what's happening into action. All right? Sound good? I love this kind of stuff. It's awesome. Quick to the point. You can do it. I know that you can. If you feel like you lose control in conversation more than you keep it, this episode is for you. I'm making this specifically for you. What I'm going to teach you if you listen to this episode is exactly how to make sure that that shift of power returns back to you. I'm gonna make it short, I'm gonna make it

9. 11:10 – 16:44

   Regaining conversational control with “forced reset” questions

   1. JFJefferson Fisher11:10

      sweet, and it's going to work. You ready? Controlling conversation is a funny thing. You don't know how to describe it, but you know when you don't have it. You know when you could get it. It's in that time that the, usually in the silence of the conversation, that as things are going, momentum starts to s- shift the other way, starts to swing the other way and it feels like everything around you is kind of dissolving. Think of a time most recently in your life where you felt the power dynamic shift. Maybe it's somebody who's a superior. Maybe it's somebody who intimidates you. Maybe it's somebody you don't like. Or maybe it's somebody you love and it still feels like you don't have something inside of you that's able to keep what's yours, and instead you feel like you're giving it all away, your needs, your wants, your, your power, your control. Whatever it is, your truth, this episode is going to teach you exactly what to do. So how do we do that? Number one, you're going to use questions that force a reset in the conversation. Now, what do I mean by that? Think of like your laptop or your phone. You, you have a, a button typically that has like a forced reset. It doesn't matter what's happening. Maybe you're on your phone and it, it freezes, or your laptop and it freezes. What do you have to do? You have to kinda like hold the power button down until it eventually what? Shuts off, and then you're able to click it again and force restart it. It's not doing it on its own. You are having to inject something into it. That's what these questions do. These are intelligent questions. These are not just the basic ones. These are questions that call for reflection in the conversation that make people think, and that alone is going to stop the momentum, stop the shift momentum, the power that's going away from you, and bring that control back to you in a way, or at least, the very least, level the playing field. You say, "Jefferson, what do these questions sound like?" I'm going to tell you. These are questions that sound like, "Are you against us talking at a normal tone? Are you against us talking about this calmly? Are you against us talking about this openly? Is it unreasonable for me to ask you to lower your voice? Is it unreasonable for me to assume that what I tell you can be kept in confidence?" Or maybe it's, "I need to know where we're going in this conversation. Can you help m- explain to me where we're going in this conversation? Where is this conversation going?" So these are three keywords that I really picked up on, that I'm, uh, wanting you to pick up on, is one, we are using s- the, the natural mind to think in the negatives, meaning if somebody asks you to do something, typically you wanna say no. Think of when your kids... I- if I ask my daughter when she was two to go do something, the first thing she'd say is, "No." We have the same exact thing. It doesn't go away. We just have different filters as we age. Well, if I were to say, "Are you against us talking about this calmly?" The first thing they're gonna wanna respond with is, "No." "Are you against..." "No, I'm not a- against it." Then they will naturally lower it. No- who's gonna say, "Yes, I'm against talking calmly"? So you use that to your advantage. It makes them think. It, it's... If I g- if I'm gonna say, "Are you, are you against us talking about this in a way that's helpful?" You hear how it makes you almost have to work through it backwards. It takes some time, even though it sounds simple, for somebody to hear it, reverse engineer it. That's the timeframe that you want. All right? That's... levels the playing field. That's the forced reset, that moment where people have to think and you get to now ask a question and they are now acquiescing to what you've asked for. Is it unreasonable? Most people will, again, say no to things. If I were to say, "Is it reasonable to ask you to stop yelling?" You know what's gonna happen? They're gonna say, "No. It's not reasonable. You, you know how upset I am right now?" But if I were to say, "Is it unreasonable for me to ask you to lower your voice?" They're not gonna say, "Yes, it is." They'll most likely say no. Why? 'Cause no is easier to say. In that moment where they reverse engineer the question, that's the shift of momentum. "I need you to tell me where we're going in this conversation. Help me understand where we're going." It's easy. It's, it's the, I am wanting to know where's the deadline, where's the, the finish line. Not the deadline, the finish line. Where do we go there? All that's doing is making them think, "Hey, what am I talking about this for? What am I talking about this for?" It's, it's jumping to that end. You are creating that moment where they have to pause, they respond to your question, which levels the playing field because that time stops the momentum. It is like icing the kicker in football. If you watch American football, uh, you know that a lot of the times they will if, if... or even in basketball. It- lots of different sports. When things are going a team's way, and, uh, especially in basketball, and somebody is... They're scoring a lot. The other team will typically call a timeout. Let's stop the momentum. They're, they're getting too much going on. That's exactly what these questions do. Exactly what these questions do, and it gives you the control back in the conversation. Number two, aside from intelligent questions that are making them stop, what I want you to think of is

10. 16:44 – 20:47

    Intent spotlighting: the “Did you mean…?” questions and balance language

    1. JFJefferson Fisher16:44

       times where you can use phrases that are going to call moments of more reflection for the other person. Why? Because it is giving you that control back. There's not a statement I can tell you that's gonna just [fingers snap] force the control there. Questions do it. Questions do it. My favorite, and if you listen to this podcast, you know, is the phrase did you mean. Did you mean for that to sound dismissive? Did you mean for that to sound a little manipulative? Did you mean for that to embarrass me or offend me? The did you mean questions, what they do is they put a big spotlight on the other person's behavior, and it makes them have to think about what their motive was. What was my intent in asking this? What was my motive in asking this? And usually, if it's a, a truly negative motive, like, did you say that to embarrass me? It forces them to now, like, they, they feel angst. They, they d- they don't like that. They got heartburn now. N- they got called out. They got called out and now what they have to do is shift it back. They have to, uh, stop. They have to hedge. They have to put on the brakes and realize, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm, I'm getting called out right here. I don't like that. I'm gonna start-" Looking bad. I don't want that." And so they'll, they'll turn that trajectory, and what they do is they lower, and now you're more balanced in the conversations. "Did you mean?" Number three, one of my favorite things to do in conversations, particularly when it feels like somebody else is trying to take control in the conversation, I will ask the question, "Are we on equal footing?" It could be something that's very similar to that. "Is this a conversation where we're balanced?" I talk about things that are up and down. I wanna make sure that w- we're walking side by side, and usually I'll ask that question. "Are we walking side by side right now? I wanna make sure I'm walking alongside you in this conversation." Whenever you're using words that call balance, even the imagery of balanced. "Are we, are we side by side here? Are we balanced? Are we on the same plane? Are we on the same footing?" You can think of a thousand other ways to say it. What they do, these phrases, these questions that make the other person kinda slow down. They make them slow down on the conversation. That's what you want, and that's what's gonna return the control back to you. There's nothing you can say that's gonna say, "Hey, I want control back in this conversation." That's not gonna happen. If it's a statement, what it does is it makes you look like you are, uh, vain. It makes you look like you're aggressive. It makes you look like you are desperate. It makes you... Desperate's the best word for it. It, it makes you look like you're already lost it, right? Makes you look like you've already lost it. Before we keep going, I wanna take a second to tell you about Monarch Money. Have you ever tried to keep track of all your finances in your head? It's not easy, right? A couple of checking accounts over here, a credit card, maybe a retirement fund that you swore that you check on last spring, maybe some change under the couch, whatever. Until suddenly it feels like everything that has to do about money is just some big cloud, some big jigsaw puzzle, and you've lost the pieces, and all of a sudden, there's that fear and concern. That's natural. That's normal. That's where Monarch comes in to help you. It pulls everything together, all your accounts, your savings, your investments, even your spending, even your spending, and shows it all in one place. A simple dashboard, no spreadsheets, uh, no guessing. Just one big place that makes your money make sense, puts you in control rather than feeling like everything else is controlling you without you having to spend hours and hours managing it. If you've been putting this stuff off, Monarch makes it easy. You'll see what's working, what's not working, and how to get there when you want to go faster. Don't let financial opportunity

11. 20:47 – 23:49

    Silence as a power move: pauses, timeouts, and choosing when to engage

    1. JFJefferson Fisher20:47

       slip through the cracks. Use code Jefferson at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com. Use the code Jefferson. And now let's get back to that episode. One of the best other ways I, I can think of rather than trying to grasp for that attention, control is, is also found in the silence. So many times in conversation, the most powerful move you can make is no move at all, not saying anything. If you want to return conversational power back to you, often silence and pauses are the best thing that's gonna do that. Pauses. If you... If somebody else is on a roll, you can call your own timeout. If they are be- And when I say on a roll, maybe they are being way too aggressive with you. Then what you say is, "I need to come back to this conversation when I'm in a better place. I'll come back to this conversation w- when I'm ready. I can tell I'm not in a good... I, I'm not myself right now. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. This is not a conversation th- that I need to be in right now." Pause it. Time it. Why did I say that? [laughs] Don't say it like that. Take a timeout. Pause the conversation. And what you do is now the nerves settle. What happens is you're able to now look like you're the one that's in control of the conversation because you're not responding emotionally. You're not saying things you don't mean. You're not trying to say the, "Yeah, but," "But, but what about..." You're not trying to throw daggers and add these little paper cuts to the conversation that don't do anything. Control is also very much found in the silence, in taking breaks. And what's that? That, that is you calling your shot of when and you, when you will not have conversation. Those three tips right there alone. See, I told you, short and sweet, rolled right into it. That's exactly what's gonna help you the next time you feel like you're losing power in a conversation. So what did we talk about? Number one, using intelligent questions. "Are you against?" "Is it unreasonable?" "Show me where we're going." Anything related to that. Using the, the negatives, that's gonna get somebody to have to think more reflectively about the conversation and stop the momentum. Two, we're going to use questions that talk about the intent and motive. That's going to, again, reflect that and make them pause. Three, largely I wanna go right into that silence. That's number three. Silence is so often the very thing that will stop the mom- momentum, bring control back because you are choosing your words when you want them and what you want to say. That's how you keep control. The key to handling conflict is not what you say. It is what you observe. In today's episode,

12. 23:49 – 33:00

    High-stress conflict: observe instead of absorb + regulate with breath

    1. JFJefferson Fisher23:49

       I'm gonna teach you exactly what I teach every single one of my legal clients. So if you've ever wondered, what's it like to be a legal client of Jefferson? Well, today is your chance to do that. Today's the lucky day. We're gonna dive into how do you handle high-stress conflict situations and operate at a different level that you did not know was possible. When we talk about difficult, high-stress conflict- I'm, I'm talking about not just the little bitty everyday arguments. I'm talking about something that's on your plate that's coming up right now and you go, "Jefferson, I don't know how to handle this. I, I don't know what to do. I, I'm afraid I'm gonna shut down. I'm afraid I'm gonna get nervous." I'm gonna tell you exactly what I tell every single one of my clients. You ready? Number one, it is not what you say. It is not anything to do with your mouth. It has everything to do with your nervous system, and the key here is instead of absorbing, you're observing. I'm gonna say it again. Instead of absorbing, you're observing. If you wanna h- handle conflict at a different level of consciousness that you did not know you could handle it, it is going to be the key of not absorbing what they say, but observing what they say. All right? Say it with me. Say it with me wherever you are. It's not absorbing, it's observing. All right? What does that mean? I want you to think... This is just coming to me right now. I want you to think you're in the grocery store and you have your, your cart with you and you're going through, and you... Or maybe, maybe you're somebody who likes a bag. You know, you, you, you have a... I'm, I'm all for environmentally friendly stuff, too, though it's hard here in Texas. And you have your cart, and you just start putting things on the shelf, or grabbing things off the shelf and putting it in your basket that you, you don't even want. All right? You don't even want. And the things just start to come in. You're like, "Yeah, you know what? I'm gonna take their belittling opinion of me. I'm gonna put it in my cart. You know what? I'm gonna take their side-eye, put it in my cart. I'm gonna take that, that disrespectful tone and put that in my cart," and you just keep going all the way through, aisle by aisle, and then you go to checkout, which is actually a, a very good word for this. Yeah. You, you, you mentally check out, and you know what checks in? Your nervous system, your emotions, and they just flood you in that moment. And, and in, in that point in time, you have absorbed, you have taken on so many things that there's nothing left for you. You're not observing. You're not seeing what's happening. You're just in it. You're just in it, and you are helpless to it. It is no longer you who controls the emotions. The emotions are now controlling you, and there's no telling what you're gonna say. There's no... The... There's no... Nobody can guess what's gonna come out of your mouth or what's going to happen because you're not there. You are checked out. So when I tell my clients, "Hey, when you're in the chair and somebody is... the other attorney's asking you questions, there's gonna be a time where all of a sudden you're tempted to go in it, to, to, to go down the spiral and look inside and look at yourself and feel emotions and get heated because you're gonna start taking things personally. You're going to start absorbing what they're saying." No, no, no, no. If you want to handle this the right way, the proper way in conflict, you have to start observing. What does that mean? That means you're going to approach the conversation at a different level of consciousness that you have before. That means instead of going, "How, how could he say that to me? Oh my gosh, I'm..." And you start holding your breath and you start getting flustered and you get nervous, or maybe you tear up. It's because you're not seeing it as, "Huh, I wonder why he's asking me this. I wonder why she's saying that. I wonder where they're going with this." Look for the intent behind the words, the intent behind the words. When you are observing what's happening, in some sense being an attached observer... I've said this before, where you... It's like you are sitting in a movie theater with your popcorn and you're watching the conversation take place, and that puts you in a different perspective of looking at the person who's talking to you and thinking, "I wonder why that character is saying this. I wonder what the plot is. I wonder what the narrative is. I, I wonder what scene is coming up next." And you see how when you look at it that way, you have full control. You're now the director, the producer, the screenwriter of exactly what happens next, and then it's just action, and you're able to be in the state of mind of, "Hey, I'm observing the conversation." And from there, that gives you a chance to let your body regulate because you're not in it. You are seeing it. You're seeing the conversation. Number two, what I teach every one of my clients is something that's at the forefront of my book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More. And rule number one when I say say it with control, and that is let your breath be the first word that you say. I've been talking a little fast here in this podcast, which is unlike me. I think I, um, I'll tell you why. I drank too much coffee this morning, too much coffee, admittedly. Usually, I talk pretty slow. All right? Can you hear how just the way I'm talking now and how I'm slowing down just a little bit might in a micro percentage also slow you down a little bit? Maybe, you know, the neural activity in your brain is starting to slow down just a little bit. Maybe you feel a little bit more relaxed at me speaking a little more slowly. When I put breath before my words, it is making sure that I am regulating myself, and even more importantly, I am showing you, I am showing you that I am regulated, that I am in control, and what I'm about to say, I've chosen. I've chosen those words. Makes a very big difference. So when I teach my clients, "Hey, don't get wrapped up. Don't try and step on somebody's question. Don't try to interrupt them. Let them get it out, and then you observe the question, observe the, the interaction, take a breath, and then choose what you want to say." You are in complete control of the pace of any conversation. Nobody can make you say anything you don't want to say, and nobody can make you say it at a time you don't want to say it. That choice is yours. That choice is yours. And I cannot tell you how many clients I have seen come to find, accept, and grow in their own power and their own sense of value and worth of, "Wow, I, I get to choose if I say anything. And you know what? If I wanna wait 30 seconds before I say something, I can do that." Uh, it's, it is a freeing feeling to know, "Mm. You know, I'm gonna think about this. Let me chew on this question for a second." Just that alone, the ability to say that says, "Oh, no, no. I'm, I'm operating at a different level you don't know about. No, I'm, I'm not who you thought I was. I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to choose my words, and I'm going to show you that what I'm about to say is something that I absolutely mean and I'm saying with intention." All right? Y- can you feel the difference? Say, what kind of breath are we talking about? I've run through this breath before. It's always good to do it because it's something that is good for me, too. It's a conversational breath, and what it does, it's based on a physiological sigh, which is a double ... [inhales] Well, that kinda sounded weird. Double inhalation. A double inhalation. So you're breathing, you're inhaling twice. All right? So you ready with me? We're gonna breathe through your nose. Wherever you are, just do it. Don't worry about it. People might look at you. Don't worry. Ready? We're gonna breathe in through your nose about two to three seconds. [inhales] One more at the top [inhales] and then let out through your nose. [sighs] My guess is you're starting to come down a little bit. Maybe your shoulders relaxed a little bit. It's the feeling that mimics a sigh. When you use that kind of breath, and I promise you, you continue to do it while I'm talking right now, you'll see that you get really good at it. You can do it any time. The most crucial part for me is when I teach my clients to do it, is before they answer the question. Just take two seconds or one second. What we s- like to say here in the South is just say, "One Mississippi." In other words, in, in your head you're gonna go, "Mississippi." [laughs] Like, what ... You, you can use your own name if you have a long name. You know, just whatever it is, it's, it's to get you in the mindset of taking a beat, a moment. Take that breath and choose what you want to say. It is always going to be better. All right. Let's be honest. There are people out there right now you don't like. They come to mind immediately. And the truth is there are also other people that don't really like you. But how do you communicate

13. 33:00 – 45:02

    Talking to someone who doesn’t like you: pleasant, neutral, and factual

    1. JFJefferson Fisher33:00

       with these people when you have to be with them at work or around the house or in your community? How do you talk to them? This episode is all about how to talk to somebody who doesn't like you. And I'm not exempt from this, by the way, the whole people not liking you thing. There are people that I can think right now, come to mind, that I don't like, and I know that there are people listening, maybe probably not listening, but maybe some, that don't like me. And that's okay. That's normal because we're not meant to be for everybody, right? There are people in your life that if you were for everybody, you're kinda probably doing something wrong. There's going to be somebody who isn't a fan of what you're doing. That's, that's kind of a good sign in m- in my world if somebody is not always a fan of what you're doing, 'cause it means that you're, you're on the right track. You're pushing, you're persevering. Not everybody has to agree with what you're doing. That's my, that's my point. How do you handle it? How do you handle it? How do you talk to somebody who doesn't like you or you don't like them? You ready? Number one, treat them like they like you. Talk to them like they like you. I know that sounds counterintuitive. That's the point. There are people that when you come into the room and you know good and well they don't like you, what they're looking for is even more reasons not to like you. But when you start treating them just as normal as can be, like nothing ever happened in the past, it's going to not only bother them, which is pretty cool, it's c- it's also going to kinda go, "Huh. Wait. This is not, this is not what I thought." And sometimes they'll actually feel bad that they even h- ever had the impression that they didn't like you. It could work either way. The point is don't give someone a reason to not like you because that, that pulls down your in- integrity. You be you is my point. You be you. Don't worry about if they like you or don't like you. So treat them in conversation just as pleasant as I'm talking to you now. Big disclaimer here. You ready? Big disclaimer. This is not about being fake. What I'm not telling you is to be fake and pretend that everything's fine. That's not it. I can be cordial with you, I can be kind, I can be polite, I can be respectful without ever having to do anything with whether I like this person, prefer this person, I'm a fan of this person or not. You just be you. All right? That's all that is. So if somebody's acting like they don't like you, treat them even more so like they like you. Don't worry about what they're doing. You concentrate on what you're doing, right? And here's the key. Here's the key takeaway, and this is probably one of my favorite points, is if they don't like you, they're not that important. Most likely they're not that important. If they genuinely don't like you, they're not that important. Why? Because they don't... That means they don't know you well enough. They're not in a place where they can really hold any kind of judgment of you that's, that's really gonna weigh on you. So what do you do? Number one, treat them like they like you. What happens when you're around somebody and you know you don't really like them and they don't really like you, and you decide to kinda shift or shirk them off or act a certain way? All it does is double down on their decision not to like you. All it does is in their mind they're going, "Oh, I knew I didn't like this person," because they're, they're... All they're doing is looking for ways to justify, validate imprint that impression in their mind of that they don't like you. So when you turn the tables and you act pleasant, respectful, you be you, that messes with their head, and they go, "Huh, okay, maybe that wasn't the, the reight- the right impression that I was supposed to have. Maybe that wasn't the right impression I was supposed to have." Number two, if you can't do that, if you go, "No, Jefferson, look, I like you man, but no, I'm not, I'm not doing that," here's what I want you to do. Go neutral. Just go flat. That means I want you to use neutral statements. When you're talking to them and you don't want the conversation to go anywhere, use words that are a stop to the conversation, that you can't do anything with. These are neutral words like got it, noted, understood, yep, interesting, words that nobody can... You can't continue to take those words and go anywhere. So stay neutral in the conversation. If, if you really can't be at a place where you can be pleasant around this person, if you, if you're really deciding that you're just gonna go sour, which I get it, we're, we're, we're normal and human, at least try to go neutral, where there's nothing negative you're gonna be doing, there's nothing positive you're gonna be doing. So use statements that keep the conversation neutral. You're not inflaming anything. You're going to use statements they really can't do anything with. So if they talk to you, instead of having this attitude or making things worse or just confirming their belief for whatever reason that they don't like you or you don't like them, it's, "Got it. Noted. Thank you. Understood. Appreciate it." You see how I'm not even using full sentences? It's not I appreciate that. It's appreciate it. Cool? Using very shortened versions that are very neutral, very flat. Nobody can do anything with them. Now, before we keep going, I want to take a second to tell you about Momentous. Momentous is a sponsor of this podcast because I use their stuff. It's a supplement company. About a year ago, I decided to really care about what I'm putting in my body. I'm a father. I'm now an author. I'm a speaker. I'm an attorney. I wear a lot of hats, and that means I need to go, "Hey, wait a second, w- h- how is my health?" And so when I think of what I'm not getting in my diet, I know that Momentous helps me with that. I take, I take a lot of their products, long before they ever sponsored this podcast. They have a whole sleep stack that helps me sleep better. I have things like their creatine, their proteins, their omega-3s that help me with my workouts. I have mag- their magnesium, which is very big, and it's helped me even with, um, any stress and anxiety. So it's, it's good stuff, and I know, like you, I don't have time to research every little supplement. Momentous makes it easy. Easy to order, their products are clean, it's effective, and it's trustworthy. Go to livemomentous.com, use the code Jefferson, and get up to 35% off your first subscription. That's livemomentous.com. Use the code Jefferson and get up to 35% off your first subscription. Momentous. When your moment matters, make it count. And now back to the episode. Number three, keep the sarcasm, the snarkiness at home. All right? Instead, stick to facts. If it's somebody who's does not like you, instead of reinforcing and embolding that, emboldening that decision of them... I think that's a word, emboldening. Let's say it is. You get my point. Instead of that, just stick to facts. Here's what I mean. Let's say you're in an office, uh, at a meeting, and somebody come in, and you know you don't really like them, they don't really like you, and they ask a question, and they're like, "What did I miss?" And you say, "Well, I mean, if you were here, you would know." That's sarcasm. That, that's nothing but to make you feel better, and it's going to make them dislike you even more. Where you come in and, and you go, "Well, I mean, it would be nice if somebody did..." or, "Well, if you were around," or, "If you really cared, you'd find out..." These passive-aggressive comments, stop that. So just empty out the passive-aggressive comments. They don't do anything. I know in that moment, 'cause you kinda wanna jab 'em, right? You wanna go, "Mm. Yeah, I know you don't like me, so let me just poke you in the eye with this stick." Don't, don't, don't do that. All right? Keep that home. Instead, just stick to facts, facts as reasons why you're here and why you're going to leave at some certain future. So let's say instead, if they ask for the time, you're just going to give the time. Don't give the snarkiness. If you come in, say, "I'm here to discuss this," or, "I need to talk to you about Y." There's not a, "Okay, well, I, I gotta talk to you, and I, I guess, um, okay, I guess we're doing this. Um, so, I... Here's the thing." Get rid of all that. Get rid of all of it. It's not serving you. It's not making you a better person. Instead, just stick neutral to the facts. There's so much in this because it's natural for us to not like people. Again, if they don't like you, they're not that important, and that's okay. And I, I can get down with the idea of if you don't have somebody who's rooting against you, it means you're not going towards something important enough. Like, if you don't have... If, if, if you're not chasing something, maybe it's a business that you're building, maybe it's a content that you're trying to create, if y- you have people that are the naysayers, the people that are, uh, doubting you, then typically it means, in my mind, your goals aren't big enough. Yeah, you need to reach for these goals that are so big and you feel like you're doing something so important that of course you're gonna have people who are on the other side of it. It's, it's, it's a healthy, it's a healthy thing. I know it's hard to kinda- Think in that mindset. But that's, that's at least my outlook. Means if, if you don't have people that are naysaying, it's, it's because your goals aren't, aren't big enough. Now, there are gonna be people out there that aren't gonna be fans of you, just for whatever reason. It doesn't matter. Typically, they're jealous. Typically, they, they have some kind of preconceived notion. They, they gossip about you behind your back. And we've addressed a lot of these topics in the podcast, in the podcast episodes to come. But the point here is, don't give somebody a reason to not like you just because y- you can. Don't allow them to change who you are. Don't allow them to lower your character or your integrity because of some preconceived notion. And, and here's this other truth. You ready? Opinions change. There are people that I used to not like, and now I, I'm like, "You know what? That was kinda dumb of me back then. I, I actually like this person." Or vice versa. And it, and it flips. You think somebody's great and you realize, "Ah, I, I got to know them, and, uh, kinda empty inside. I, I don't, I don't agree. This doesn't match and align with my values anymore." People change. My guess, if you're listening right now, there's somebody that you weren't really a fan of and, and then now you're like, "I kinda like this person." It goes, the same thing with siblings. You grow up with siblings. Uh, like I know two sisters who hated each other, and now they're like the best of friends. It happens. Coworkers, you're like, "I'm not really a fan of him." At the end, you're, you're great. Why? Because time changes things. Always keep your head above the water. Operate a frequency that says, "I'm gonna be true to me regardless of what anybody else is going to do." So what do you do? How do you talk to somebody who doesn't like you? Number one, act like they do. Treat them like they like you. Talk exactly like they like you. Why? Because that is your choice, and you're not allowing their, y- your pers- preconceived notion of what they think about you to control any of your behavior. Are you with me? Good. Two, if you can't do that, keep your emotions in a vacuum. That means you're gonna use neutral, flat statements that don't do anything, like, "Thanks. Got it. Understood." It's not the best, but at least it's gonna keep you flat. Number three, keep all the passive-aggressive, sarcastic comments at home, things that are gonna flare it up. Leave that alone. Instead, just operate on the facts, why you're there, what you need to talk about. Get in, get out, get safe. And keep in mind, opinions always change.

14. 45:02 – 1:04:02

    Interview segment: pausing, assertiveness, and scripts for rude/inappropriate comments

    1. SPSpeaker45:02

       "Calm down. You're too sensitive. You're overreacting." Most of us women have felt completely invalidated and dismissed by those words. So how on earth can we respond with confidence without losing our cool?

    2. JFJefferson Fisher45:17

       If you want to feel confident, then you have to do assertive things. You have to assert yourself. Uh, confidence is more of a feeling. Like, if I were to say, "Hey, I need you to feel scared right now," you'd have a hard time doing it without me being scary.

    3. SPSpeaker45:30

       [laughs]

    4. JFJefferson Fisher45:31

       Uh, same thing to say, "I need you to be confident," you're gonna have a hard time f- feeling it without doing something that's going to trigger that. So it's the assertive statements that you can use right into your sentences. So for example, if it's that idea of, "You're being so sensitive," it's the having the patience to know, "Okay, I know I can say something assertive right here," and that is, "No, I'm sensing you're being a jerk." [laughs]

    5. SPSpeaker45:54

       [laughs]

    6. JFJefferson Fisher45:55

       You know? If somebody says, "It's just a joke," "I'm just sensing you're not that funny." It's that idea of you're flipping their words and having the wherewithal in that moment to say something assertive that will then, in a positive feedback loop, give you the feeling of confidence.

    7. SPSpeaker46:09

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher46:09

       And then with that confidence, you wanna say more assertive things.

    9. SPSpeaker46:12

       But when someone's being dismissive of your feelings-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher46:15

        Mm-hmm

    11. SPSpeaker46:16

        ... if you don't know how to be assertive, you absolutely may say something that they can then use to either weaponize against you-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher46:23

        Yeah

    13. SPSpeaker46:24

        ... or they can just then use that same statement again to prove their point.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher46:28

        Yes.

    15. SPSpeaker46:29

        As in, like, "See? I told you you're too sensitive."

    16. JFJefferson Fisher46:31

        Right. In those s- situations, with any kind of personality, th- they often tee something up for you to grab. So they say something ugly. What they're doing is offering you something and saying, "Why don't you go ahead and take it? Go ahead." And once you take it, once you have that response of that emotional, uh, "I can't believe you. I can't..." and you have that big reaction, now they got you. You fell for the trap. And now all of a sudden they kinda, they take the joy in that response that you gave, that hit of dopamine that they receive from that control. And so now when you react, you are giving away your power. Often it's the silence and the very small steps that say, "I'm in control and you aren't." It's a very, it's, it's a, a weird mindset where you have to flip the idea of when you are sending that zinger right back at them, you're actually weakening your position-

    17. SPSpeaker47:20

        Mm-hmm

    18. JFJefferson Fisher47:20

        ... not increasing it.

    19. SPSpeaker47:21

        Okay, so 'cause that is exactly what we do. We, we go, "Okay, well, I'm gonna give as good as I'm gonna get." And that feels sometimes in the moment quite empowering. As a woman-

    20. JFJefferson Fisher47:29

        Yeah

    21. SPSpeaker47:29

        ... it's like I've got my own back. I can stand up for myself. But to your point, what you end up doing is weakening your position.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher47:35

        Yes.

    23. SPSpeaker47:35

        So you say we have one of the best great secret weapons of pausing.

    24. JFJefferson Fisher47:41

        Yes.

    25. SPSpeaker47:42

        So talk to me about, in that moment, if you start to feel the heat, you start to boil, your blood's boiling 'cause someone's being disrespectful to you, they're dismissing you, take me through the exact steps of how do you pause?

    26. JFJefferson Fisher47:53

        Mm.

    27. SPSpeaker47:53

        How do you, uh, collect your mindset and then come up with a good response?

    28. JFJefferson Fisher47:58

        Yeah, so what I talk about is difference between short pauses and long pauses. And when somebody says something disrespectful, what you want is a long pause that's somewhere between about five to eight seconds. It's just a, a few seconds of allowing the other person to hear what they said, because let's say you said something negative to me. Visually, one, it's gonna give me the feeling of confidence when I h- see that word come and just fall to the ground-

    29. SPSpeaker48:24

        Mm

    30. JFJefferson Fisher48:24

        ... and understanding I don't have to pick that up. And it's kind of in that silence you're looking at it going, "Is that, is that what you wanted to say? Does that feel good, that, that right there? Are you looking at what I'm looking at?" And that right there automatically makes them feel-
15. 1:04:02 – 1:32:29

    Defensiveness toolkit and sounding confident: remove ‘you’ and remove ‘fluff’

    1. JFJefferson Fisher1:04:02

       feeling defensive. It's natural, but it's also the number one killer of conversation. If you feel defensive, you shut everybody off, and if they feel defensive, they're not gonna listen to anything else you have to say. On today's episode, it's all about how do you handle defensiveness? If there's one thing about defensiveness, it's that it's so easy to do. It's just biological. It's natural. Because anything that you perceive as a threat or a challenge, you fight against. It is natural as part of your fight or flight. On, on any argument that you're going to have, there are two sides. There is an ignition side and a cooling side of it, and that ignition is triggered by things that trigger you. So any time somebody challenges your opinion or disagrees with you, your body perceives that as a threat. It says, "I don't like that." Somebody gives you an opinion and you disagree, your body says, "I don't like that." Somebody's telling you what to do, your body goes, "Eh, I don't really like that." So every time that happens, there is a desire to push back against it. If somebody's telling you, "You need to go do this," you automatically wanna go, "No, I don't." If somebody says, "Oh, you were behaving this way last night. You were in a bad mood last night," you automatically wanna go, "No, I wasn't. Who, who are you to tell me how I was or how I'm feeling or what to do?" We preserve that element of autonomy within ourselves. And so any time you feel defensiveness, it is just so reactionary, and it's n- nearly impossible to stop from the get-go. But there are some tips and techniques that I'm gonna give you to make sure that you know how to handle it in the moment. Number one, to keep yourself from getting defensive, let their words fall to the ground. This is what I mean. In case you forgot, other people's words are not your responsibility to carry. It's not tennis or volleyball. You don't have to throw anything back. So instead, you're just gonna take a breath, imagine that their words fall to the ground, and you get to decide whether to pick them up or just leave them there. And you're gonna find more often than not, you just wanna leave them there. Number two, get rid of beginning your sentence with you. When it comes to responding in an argument, the word you is very triggering because it's you telling them what to do, how they should behave, what they need to say, what they need to do, and they're going to get defensive. So instead of you, we're gonna tweak that to start with I. When you start with I, it's not nearly as triggering. Number three, you're gonna use phrases that help dampen defensive responses, responses like, "I agree. That's something that we should consider," or, "That's helpful for me to know. Thank you." When you use those phrases, it's telling them that they're getting acknowledged, and they're not going to get defensive. What I try to do-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher1:06:52

       When somebody tells me something and I can tell that I'm getting defensive, I try and imagine like what they just told me was a piano note. All right? Uh, you ever heard somebody just hit one key on the piano and they just leave their finger there, and you just let that note sustain, is what they call it. You let that note just end by itself to where it eventually just falls and drops. The note is no longer heard. It... That's how I imagine it. So when somebody says something that I don't like, instead of having this very reactionary response, this very defensive response that I know is not worth my energy and time, I picture in my mind that it is fallen, the, the word just fell out of their mouth, and they're on the ground, and I get to look at them and go, "Is this worth my time? Is this worth my energy?" Often when I start to get involved in it and I'd start to pick it up, I tell myself this phrase, uh, what I use Small Talks, and that is I tell myself, "Put it down, Jefferson. Put it down, Jefferson. It's not worth your time. What are you doing? Put it down." I, I say those things to myself and it helps me. It controls my emotions when I can inject my breath, let my breath be the first thing that I say, and have that slow reaction and go, "You know what? No, I don't have to send that back. I don't have to hit that back over the net. I don't have to take a swing at this." Just let it go by. There's, there's not a umpire. Just let them have a bad pitch. They threw a ball. So what? You don't swing at them. You don't swing at those. So when I have that kind of mentality, it, it helps me in a very specific way because defensive behavior is just biological. It is in- innate within every one of us that we naturally want to defend things. We want to defend, uh, our intelligence. We want to af- uh, defend our credibility. We want to defend our own ideas and opinions, and when somebody is conflicting with those, we want to put our wall up, to put our shield up, to protect that. That's why so often when you start to say things and you can tell somebody's fighting and fighting and fighting, th- they are defending against their own ideas. They are protecting their house, so to speak. That's why that whole idea of having something to learn instead of something to prove, having something that's open rather than something that's pointing at them is going to open up the dialogue so much better. You're not gonna have these defensive reactions. So any time that somebody tells you something and you start to feel that tension in your body that's preparing you for that fight or flight, just imagine that their words are falling to the ground. You're gonna take a few seconds and decide for yourself, "Is this something I need to respond to?" And in truth, it's a cycle, what I call a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I say something and they get defensive, well, more often than not, they're gonna say something back, and then I'm gonna get defensive, and all of a sudden we're just saying things that are hurting each other and we're, we both have our walls up. When it comes to defensive behavior, one of the worst things you can do is begin your sentence with you. If I were to tell you right now, "You seem like you're in a bad mood," or if I were just to be very blunt, "You're in a bad mood," most likely you're going to disagree with me or you're gonna correct me or you're gonna adjust what I just told you. You're gonna say, "No, no, I'm not," or, "Well, I... No, I'm just, I'm irritated right now." You're not going to accept that I said you're in a bad mood because you is assum- assumption based. It is trying to tell somebody what they're doing, what they need to be doing. Uh, you're not listening to me. It gets people defensive because what they wanna say is, "Yes, I am. I am listening to you," versus me saying, "I feel like you're not listening to me. I feel like I'm not being heard." When you change you to I, it's not nearly as defensive, 'cause I'm not assuming that you're doing anything. If I were to say, "You don't even care. You don't care," automatically you're gonna f- what you're thinking inside is, "Yes, I am. I, I do care." People don't like to be told that they are something or they feel a certain way or they're doing something. W- we don't like that. So when you just easily turn it from instead of beginning your sentence with you, change it to I. Change it to I. It's just, it's that easy. I, I can't make it any more simple than that. When somebody's getting defensive, m- the most likely culprit is because you started a sentence with you. I'm also guilty of that. All right? A- any time that somebody's getting in a defensive, in an argument with me or a conversation, I can go back in my mind and go, "I d- I started that sentence with you. I shouldn't have done that." When I rephrase it with an I and say, "Hey, can I, can I start over? I feel like I, I wasn't heard," I'm beginning with I, and it's gonna smooth it out a whole lot better. So easiest transition here is any time you say something, to keep somebody from getting defensive, instead of you, just replace it with I. Instead of, "You can't talk to me like that," it's, "I don't respond to that volume. I don't respond to that tone." You make it about you, yourself as a... Saying, "I, I feel this way," and take it away from that other person, and they're not gonna get defensive. Now, I also wanna make sure that I equip you with some phrases that are going to help dampen defensive behavior. If you're already in that argument and things are already going, and you go, "Oh, man, I, I really need to just calm things down for a second," here are some phrases that I want you to, to use real quick. One of my favorites is beginning your sentence with I agree. Now, listen to me. I'm not saying that you're agreeing with what they said. All right? Instead, you're just agreeing that the discussion needs to be had. Instead of thinking micro, go macro. So if somebody's communicating, instead of saying... Getting all defensive and arguing with them, I can just say, "I agree that this is worth discussing." You feel automatically that's just gonna settle the conversation. It's gonna smooth it out. They're gonna lower their voice, lower their tone. The spikes aren't gonna be as pointy. They say, "Hey, I, I agree we need to talk about this." Simple as that. Begin your sentence with, "I agree. I agree that this subject is worth discussing." You hear how different that is? They're gonna feel acknowledged, like, "Okay, this is... I, I'm not having to fight. I don't have to fight and put, put up all the spikes all the time." Another that I like to use is, "That's helpful to know." Tell them that they've been helpful. And when somebody feels like they've been helpful, it feels like they're involved in their own mutual understanding, uh, that they have helped, uh, teach you things. That's why I also like using the phrase, "What I've learned." Or, "By listening to you right now I've, I've learned I have some work to do," or, "I've learned that this topic is really important to you." That's one I've used often. "I've learned that this topic is, is important to you." Just by them hearing, "I've learned," they feel like they've taught something, and it's going to lower, it's gonna lower all the walls s- because now they feel like they're on the same playing field. They don't have to continue to pick up their sword and fight and cut and slash to defend their property, defend their own ideas and opinions. Instead, when you use these phrases like, "I agree this is worth talking about," or, um, "That's helpful for me to know," or, "I've, I've learned that this is important to you," those are all going to quickly put out a lot of fires for you.

    3. SPSpeaker1:14:26

       What if you're with somebody who, I used it earlier, but I wanna go a little bit deeper, they pick on you. They kinda gnaw at you a little bit. You know, everything is almost, um, passive-aggressive in the way they say things, and you find yourself almost being put down subtly when you communicate with this person. And I find this an awful lot lately with couples that are friends of mine, married couples. There's this subtle dynamic where they both are a little bit passive-aggressive with one another in the way they communicate, and I, I feel empathy for the one that I think is the one receiving most of the aggression. Is there something you can do when you feel like someone's communicating with you that way? Is there a phraseology or a, or a strategy for that?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher1:15:15

       Let's separate it into two different categories. So one, let's say, is kind of this more, uh, just passive-aggressive bucket. The other is let's ramp it up to somebody being a little bit more overtly disrespectful or rude. So in this first bucket, this passive-aggressive, these are people that, uh, most likely just have grown up that way. This is what they saw, mirrored, uh, conversation and arguments throughout their life, and they don't know how to express that kinda thing. So when they slide in that negative comment that you know there's something to that, a simple question of like, "Should I read into that," or, "Is there more to that?" Or I... And this goes for Chris Foss, a dear friend, and he... I love his, his question is, "Sounds like you have a reason for saying that." I love that phrase. I-

    5. SPSpeaker1:16:00

       Mm

    6. JFJefferson Fisher1:16:00

       ... I also love, "Sounds like there's more to that." So any time you can just quickly ask, "Sounds like there's more to that," or ask them, "Should I read into that?" Th- That tends to draw out the passive aggressiveness, 'cause they're not expecting you to kinda call them to the floor. On the flip side, if somebody's saying more aggressive things towards you, my recommendation is begin your question with, "Did you mean?" "Did you mean for that to sound rude?" "Did you-

    7. SPSpeaker1:16:27

       Mm

    8. JFJefferson Fisher1:16:27

       ... say that to embarrass me?" "Did you say that to hurt my feelings?" Uh, "Did you say that to offend me?" And when you say, "Did you mean?" It is twofold. One, it's giving them the grace of perhaps they said it in a way they did not mean, and it's gonna allow them to fix it. Like, uh, at least with me and my wife, if we're texting and something seems like it's off, instead of it, saying, you know, "Why are you being so short? What's wrong?"

    9. SPSpeaker1:16:57

       Yeah, yeah.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher1:16:57

        The quest- uh, ask the question, "Did you mean for that to sound short?" Instantly-

    11. SPSpeaker1:17:02

        I-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher1:17:02

        ... almost every time-

    13. SPSpeaker1:17:03

        Yeah

    14. JFJefferson Fisher1:17:03

        ... my, my, you know, it, it is like the, "Oh, no, no, no, no, sorry, I'm picking up the kids," or, "I, you know, I, I was checking out the grocery store," or getting gas. You know, you, you get that, that K or OK, and you're like, "Oh, okay, I guess, I guess they hate me right now. All- All right. Like, I guess they're in a mood." And then you naturally get in a mood, and then you respond defensively, which causes them to respond offensively, and now you're convinced, you've convinced yourself you're under attack. So it's this, um, this feedback loop that's not helpful to you. So when you begin with, "Did you mean?" It's a great way to set somebody to, one, give them that grace of fixing it, but two, it's calling attention to what they were wanting to do. "Did you say that to, to, uh, to embarrass me?" "Did you say that to, to offend me?" It is, uh... Or, "Did you mean for that to sound rude?" Like, that is a, a very quick way to address it out in the open and if they're gonna double down on it or not.

    15. SPSpeaker1:17:55

        Will you do that in rev- by the way, this is so good. Will you do that in reverse if you feel that what you've said has been misinterpreted? In other words, if you feel like you're... I do this better in business than I do personal life. To be honest with you, in personal life, I think I just let everything out the window that I know that are tools, which is so stupid. When it comes to business, I'm pretty good at this. With friends and family, I devolve into the most emotionally immature person sometimes. But, so let's say we have gone back and forth, and maybe I've said something the other way that they're hurt by. Will you slow a conversation down, for example, and say something like, "What did you hear me say?" How will you handle that if the person is now coming back at you for something they believe you've said that's passive-aggressive or demeaning or rude?

    16. JFJefferson Fisher1:18:40

        Awesome question. This happens all the time, especially in relationships, but I'd say even work too. When somebody tells you something, you know, you've been in that situation where somebody is going, "That's not what you said. You said this," and they kinda give a voice that doesn't even sound like your voice and gives a-

    17. SPSpeaker1:18:57

        Yeah

    18. JFJefferson Fisher1:18:57

        ... intonation in it, and you're like, "I didn't even say it like that." And all of a sudden now you're going, "That's not what I said. I didn't say it like that." You're just pushing what you thought you conveyed, and nine times out of 10 it is inaccurate because what is said is not always what's received. So instead of this, "That's not what I said," um, you are going to ask the question, "What did you hear? What did you hear?" Because now it's not about what I am putting out, I am now getting curious of what you heard, because that's what matters. Any time you have that kind of confrontation or that miscommunication, instead of going, "No, no, no, no, that's not what, that's not what I said," and kind of dismissing their whole experience or their perspective. Uh, by the way, it's very hard to, to judge. [laughs] It's like making your own movie but not having an audience and going, "No, no, that's not how the movie goes." It's like nobody else has seen it. O- o- only you're the one who thinks it's that way. So when you ask the question, "What did you hear?" And they explain it, that's when you can say, "That was not my intent," or, "I apologize for that impression." Or I would recommend is begin your sentence with, "I can see." Like, "I can see how you'd feel that way. I can see how that'd come up." You know, whenever you say, um, you know, "I c- I can see why you'd feel that way, I can see why, uh, that would upset you," that I can see just says, "Hey, I took a second to walk over to where you're standing, and I turned to look the same way that you're looking, and I can confirm, yeah, what you see is reasonable. What you see is justified. You know what? That makes sense. I can see that." That right there just goes boo. It naturally takes down the aggression, this I have to win, you have to see it what I see. Any time you can do that and use words of perspective, uh, like view, perspective, see, um, that is going to help somebody go, "Oh, I feel heard. Oh, I feel understood." And by that they're gonna be more receptive to the progress. If you wanna change your life for the better, well, this is one of the best ways to do it. On today's episode, we're talking how to respond with confidence. If you wanna sound more confident, do this. Number one: eliminate the fluff. Eliminate the fluff. You know what I'm talking about. Fluff is that kind of ... Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's just this, um, it's just this ... I mean, you know, it's, it's, um, uh, fluff. Fluff that absolutely kills the confidence in your responses. Number two: we're gonna work on uptalk. That is where you begin to increase in the tone of your voice, almost like you're asking a question. Instead of saying something like this, it sounds kind of like this. At the end of your sentences, they uptalk, and that's not good because it makes it sound like everything you're saying is a question, like you're uncertain about it. And number three: we're gonna work on word choice. That means we're going to eliminate ending your sentences with, "You know what I mean?" We're going to eliminate using the word just all the time, and we're going to minimize your reliance on adverbs. Those are words that end in L-Y. Literally. Now, I wanna be clear. There is a difference between talking to friends and talking in a professional setting, period. When you're talking to people that are close to you, who cares about fluff words? If you are fumbling over your words and you're saying um, and you know, and, uh, I mean, or maybe, you know, any time you're saying that to a friend, no problem. It's casual, it's comfortable, it's part of the conversation. But if you're talking in a professional setting, maybe at work, maybe in front of, uh, an important group. Do you hear how I just said that? In a, an important group. Then it's not that, not great for you, because it makes it sound as if you are uncertain, like you're hesitant, like you're not sure what you're wanting to say. But in regular conversation, it's, it's part of the game. Now, about fluff. Fluff comes in all shapes and sizes, and I want you to think about it as if it is static. It's a filler. They call them filler words. I like to say fluff. Um, and they also are ways of thinking about it of too much ice in your drink, because they dilute your message. If you wanna sound confident, you gotta serve your words straight. So when you begin a sentence in f- front of a group and they ask you a question, and it's, you're on the spot to respond, and the first thing out of your mouth is, "Um," that's very common. They ask you a question, and the first thing you wanna say is, "Um, uh, well, uh," automatically that confidence in how you sound just tanks, because you're not communicating. You're just wanting to make sound out. That's really what it is. We feel comfortable when we're, have this constant sound wave. Whenever there's the constant just noise, whether it's actual words being articulated or not, we just like hearing that, that sound, so that's why it comes out that way. If they, somebody asks me a question and I go, "Um, you know, well, I mean, it, it, it depends. Y- you know?" You see how vague that is? Versus you ask me a question and the first thing, uh, that I say is, "I haven't run across that before. I think it depends on a number of factors," and I begin to speak. Very different. Same goal. I'm telling them, "I've never run across that before." Very different sound. So you wanna find ways to eliminate that fluff, and how you do it is very simple. It's very simple, okay? Enough ... It's so simple you're gonna be like, "Jefferson, I, I knew this." But are you doing it? The question here is, do you know how to eliminate that fluff? And you do it by saying nothing. Wherever the fluff would be, just get used to silence. It's that easy. Get comfortable with silence. That's it. You just get comfortable with silence. So wherever that filler word would be, say nothing. The way I teach, and I know I've said this on my podcast before, let your breath be the first word that you say. So when somebody asks you a question that you don't know, the worst thing you can do is go, "Um," and look up as if you're searching for the words. Instead, take a breath... Let that silence be there, and then you get to respond. You don't have to have just noise for the sake of noise. Give it a pause and fill that space with absolute nothing. Allow your breath to catch the attention for them to hang onto your next words for you to say, "I haven't run across that before, but what I am confident about is we can look at X, Y, and Z." That's how you handle fluff. Now, uptalk is a little bit different, and I find that it is very dependent on gender most of the time, where men don't really have this issue, but women do. It's a, it's an uptalk, uh, m- just because of the way you can tweak the end and sound of your voice. But it certainly happens to the guys, too. I don't wanna say it's just a female thing or a male thing at all. It's not. But it, it sounds like this. Uh, when you have the people who are in the office, and they're talking to you, and they go, "Yeah, I think I can do that. I mean, yeah, we can probably get it to you by Friday." Like, as if you're hanging onto it, as if they're asking for permission in some way. When you say that and you sound like that, it cuts down on your confidence because it sounds like you're not sure. It sounds like you're unclear, and you're asking for permission in some way. Think of it this way. This is how I want you to say your words. Ask as if you're asking someone to pass the salt. All right, here over in America, in Texas, if I'm gonna ask somebody to pass the salt, I'm gonna say, "Hey, so and so, can you pass the salt?" Period. You see how my, my volume, uh, my, excuse me, my, my tone there at the, the end went down? "Can you pass the salt?" So when you end on a lower note, it sounds more serious. You see that? And instead of saying it sounds more serious, it sounds more serious. When you uptalk, it sounds like you're asking a question. When you go down, it sounds like you're making a firm statement. So I wouldn't say, "Hey, can you pass the salt?" As if I don't know what salt is or you don't know what salt is. Instead, I say, "Can you pass the salt?" As if I'm assuming, yes, everybody knows what it is. I'm gonna keep that, that cadence flat, and if I can, drop the tone just a little bit at the bottom to make it sound a lot more firm and a lot more confident. All right, this one is, uh, this one's gonna step on some toes a little bit. This is word choice. Word choice. What are the words that you're saying to sound confident at any given time? One of the biggest culprits, in my view, is ending your sentence with something that doesn't feel firm. Does that make sense? There it is right there. This element of, "Does that make sense?" Every time you ask that question, you're doing something that is double-sided. Let me explain. If I'm gonna tell you something and I make a statement, and I say, "Does that make sense?" I'm doing two things. The reason I'm saying that, the reason you may be saying that, is because it's this internal fear or insecurity of maybe the words that I'm saying aren't actually making sense to someone. They're not clear. I'm not, I'm not communicating well. On the other side, I'm assuming that what I am saying may or may not be making sense to them. So the other person, it could also be offensive in some way to them, especially if you make it after a statement that is very common. Like, "The sky's blue today. Does that make sense?" The other person's like, "Oh, yeah, of course. Of course it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense." You just... It was a plain sentence. There's nothing complicated about that. So in some ways you may be insulting their intelligence by saying, "Does that make sense?" You, you poor, pitiful mind, you. Does, does that... Do I need to go a little bit slower for you? So I'm not saying it's all the time, but it definitely runs that risk. I've certainly had it where somebody asks, "Does that make sense?" After a statement where I only say, "Yes. Yes, that, that makes sense." How, [laughs] how else could I have taken that sentence? But I know where it's coming from is this insecurity feeling of i-i- am I saying it right? Am I doing okay? It's best that you eliminate that. All right? Instead of saying, "Does that make sense?" You can replace that with, "What are your thoughts?" That's it. What are your thoughts? Do you have any questions? Do you have any feedback? My favorite is, "What are your thoughts?" Instead of, "Does that make sense?" I'm saying, "What are your thoughts?" I'm inviting communication. I'm inviting continuing the conversation instead of, "Do we need to stop and set a new paragraph for you to feel comfortable with this?" I'm inviting them. What are your thoughts? What do you think? That's it. They might say, "Oh, I'm, I'm good. I don't have any thoughts. That sounds great." Awesome, but at least I'm not assuming that they didn't understand what I said if I said, "Does that make sense?" So I would get rid of that. Just replace it with, "What are your thoughts?" Another way to tweak some of your communication to sound more confident is eliminate the word just. I love the word just in my regular day conversation. It's very common. But if I'm gonna communicate in front of a group, try to eliminate it, or if you're gonna email somebody, try to eliminate it. Hear the difference. If I text you or email or I say to you, "Hey, uh, I just wanted to check in. I just wanna touch base," that sounds almost hesitant, doesn't it? "Hey, just wanna check in." That sounds almost hesitant versus, "Hey, I wanted to check in on you. I wanted to touch base." That sounds like I'm leaning into it. I'm not shying away. I'm stepping into it. I wanted to do this versus, "Hey, I, I just wanted to..." As if I'm, eh, just a little bit, don't... I'm not trying to get in your space. Very different. Eliminate that word just because it makes you sound more hesitant in your communication and, and that's, that's not the way you, you want to sound. Another is the way you use adverbs. I'm gonna step on a little bit of toes here with, with this, and that is often when you overuse adverbs, it makes it more fluffy. That we're really not saying anything. We all have these little ticks that we like to say. Maybe we got them from family. Maybe we got them from friends or where you're, wherever you're working. But they cut down on the confidence and assertiveness of your sentences. So here's some words like that. Essentially, big culprit. Literally, those two alone. Basically. Anything that ends with L-Y. Here is a very common response when somebody is responding to something or a- a-answering a question that you're asking. They're gonna say, "So essentially, I mean, what we have is..." That means nothing. That means nothing. It's just, it's just fluff. Those are comfort words. Those are security blankets that you like to have. It's going to be best if you eliminate those. There's not some kinda cure. You just need to find ways to get rid of them. If you ever see an email that says essentially or basically or literally or any other type of words, understand you can just eliminate them, and they're going to be a whole lot better. Remember, if you want to have strong sentences, you need to just serve your words straight every time. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there.

Episode duration: 1:32:32