Never Struggle with Small Talk Again | Easy Tips for Better Conversations

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Why small talk feels awful—and what you’ll learn to fix it

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      If there is one thing to unite this world, it is the hatred of small talk. It doesn't matter if it's a corporate company event or maybe a, just a week in networking, it can be terrible. It can be downright scary at times. So how do you do it and how do you get better at it? Well, I gotcha. Today we're talking all about how to never struggle with small talk. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning

2. 0:30 – 1:30

   Upgrade the basics: ask action-oriented questions (the “doing,” not the status)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:30

      tools to improve your communication, I'm gonna ask you to follow this podcast, and if you would, please leave a review. If you have any suggestions for a topic, just throw them in the comments. Also, my new book, The Next Conversation, is officially out on pre-order, and you can find links for it down in the show notes. Small talk. It's gross. So how are we gonna fix that? Let me give you some hints. Number one, instead of just asking, "How's work? How's home?" Those kinda questions just fall flat. They do nothing for you. They don't move the conversation at all. Instead, we're going to switch it to ask questions that are action-oriented. That means questions about the doing. So instead of, "How's work? How's home? How are you?" You're gonna be asking questions like, "What did y'all do this weekend? What do you have coming up?" Getting things that they're excited about. "What are you excited about today or tomorrow or this week?" When you say, "What are you doing or going," those are action-oriented things, and they're gonna help push the conversation forward. Number two, now what matters

3. 1:30 – 2:31

   Avoid yes/no dead ends: switch to open-ended prompts

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:30

      is how you do it. If you notice, I didn't say, um, "Do you have anything going on this weekend?" Because how are you gonna respond to that? You're gonna respond to that as either a yes or a no. That's it. When you ask questions typically that are did or, uh, "Did you have fun today? Did you have a good day?" When you ask your kid, when you pick them up from school, "Did you have a good day?" You're really only giving them a few options to say yes or no. When you ask questions that are closed, that's what they're called, close-ended questions, they only leave you hardly anywhere to go. It's just a yes or no question. "Did you go to the store?" Yes or no. Instead, you're gonna be opening it up with asking and beginning the phrase or question with what. What you say, always say, "What did y'all do this weekend?" Or did, instead of, "Did you have fun this weekend?" You hear the difference between, "What did you do for fun this weekend?" Versus, "Did you have fun this weekend?" One

4. 2:31 – 3:31

   Permission to keep it short: ending small talk gracefully

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:31

      invites you to open up, the other closes it down and ends the discussion. So any time that you can, I want you to ask an open-ended question. You do that by beginning with what or how or when, because it gets them to continue to talk. That's what you're after. And also, number three, if you find that you just don't have that much to talk about, or it starts to go downhill, and you're finding that each of your responses are getting shorter and shorter, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. People feel like there has to be a certain amount of time for it to count as small talk. No. If, if you just say hello to the person and you engage maybe in one little back and forth, that's small talk. You've done it. Congratulations. There's no medal, there's no reward, there's nobody counting and timing you to see how long you've been talking. Just if the conversation comes to a natural end, then just say, "Hey, great to talk to you," and politely end the conversation. Don't feel like you have to keep pushing and pushing to have some green

5. 3:31 – 4:32

   The simple small-talk formula: topic → options → share → ‘what about you?’

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

      check flag to say, "I have accomplished small talk." It's a lot less than you think to make that happen. All right. Now, on top of making sure your questions are action-oriented, asking about the going, the doing, what they're excited about, what's up ahead, what's, uh, going on in the future. On top of making sure that you're asking open-ended questions that are leaving lots of space and begin with, with what, how, and when and not did, that's gonna close things off. On top of that, there's a formula that I'm going to teach you real quick, and it has always worked for me, and I know it can work for you, too. This is how it goes. Number one, you just pick a topic, any topic to talk to this person about. So let's say it's as boring as the weather. You could say, "Man, this weather was crazy. This weather can't make up its mind today." They're gonna come up with something. They're gonna say, "Yeah. Oh, I know. Yeah, right? It's crazy." They're gonna acknowledge you in some way. Perfect. You have now set the stage for you to give

6. 4:32 – 5:33

   Why the formula works: options reduce pressure and invite personality

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:32

      options. I like to think of it as a poll, um, and... P-O-L-L, meaning you're going to say, for example, in, in this example, you can say, "So you, are you a fall person? Are you a winter person? You like it hot or you, you like it cold?" Or maybe it can be summer or winter. "Are you, you a, you a fan of summer or do you like it cold?" Or, "Would you rather be too hot or too cold?" You're giving them options. That's the key. Options. Because options give us something to talk about rather than just forcing it down one chute and hoping that it works. So if I were to say, you know, "Are you, do you like the beach in summer or are you more like you like the mountains and the, the snow?" They're gonna give you one. They're gonna give you one option. They're not gonna just leave you hanging. Or they might just say, "You know what? I really like spring. Spring's kind of my thing. It reminds me of blah, blah, blah." Well, then you get to interact and say, "Well, I, I totally hear you. I, well, I happen to be a fall person because it makes me think of football

7. 5:33 – 6:33

   Build mutual comfort by sharing something personal (a ‘hidden contract’)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:33

      and Thanksgiving and, uh, here in, in America, we have Thanksgiving in November, and so that's what I really like." And then you get to kinda interact with them and say, "Well, what, what about you?" And now you're getting to get to know them on just a little bit deeper level because here's, here's the trick on, on this formula. It's why it works, for me at least, is that when you share something that is more personal about you... 99% of the time, it then opens it up for the other person to share something a little bit more personal about them because they feel like, "Oh, well, you've shared something, and now I'm gonna share something." It's, it's very, um... It creates kinda this mutual contract that's hidden in a way, that if I share a little bit about me and what's personal to me and what I like, you're then gonna feel a little bit more comfortable sharing more personal things about you, and that's what you're curating in that experience. You can take it wherever you wanna go, but that's, that's the formula.

8. 6:33 – 7:33

   Keep it quick and usable anywhere (even an elevator)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:33

      It's that simple. Pick a topic, create options for them. Uh, maybe you create two options, at least two, maybe three or four, and then you share something as to which one is your favorite, and then ask someone, "What about you?" Even the question, "What about you?" continues to open things up in the dialogue and it, it never can really go wrong that way. I mean, they call this small talk, not big talk. It's just something short, compact that you left a, "Oh, okay, I, I learned a little bit more about this person." And it's something that you can knock out really in just an elevator ride. It's very quick, very easy. Let's say you're coming off, uh, into the elevator straight from some rain or whatever. You can easily just open it up talking about really the weather, the news, whatever you want. Try that. And because this episode is about small talk, I'm going to keep this episode small. So let's go, uh, ahead and get into my favorite part of the podcast, and that's where I get to read a question from a follower. Those that are part of my newsletter are able to ask me questions, uh, by email, and I'm able to answer

9. 7:33 – 9:05

   Listener question: clamming up at networking events and feeling stuck

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:33

      them. So if you're not part of the newsletter, you can sign up. The show notes are, um, or the link for it is down there in the show notes. All right, this one I have picked one out. This is... Let me pull it up. This is Linda, and she lives in Lubbock, Texas. Linda from Lubbock. Think there's a country song in there somewhere. Uh, I went to law school in Lubbock, so I'm very familiar with it. Linda says, "Jefferson, I need some advice. Thank you so much for your clips." You're very welcome, Linda. "I am... Uh, I work at a..." Well, I'm not, I'm not gonna say where she works. "But I have networking events, and I tend to absolutely clam up, where I stand in the corner and I'm not sure how to approach anyone or to get to a point where I feel comfortable talking to anyone. Do you have any advice?" Linda, I'm, I'm sorry you're having trouble with that, and it's, it's absolutely okay. Absolutely okay, because what makes you special is what makes you you. So just because y- you're not going around talking to every single person that is in the room, Linda, does not make you any less special or important or of less value. You find that people can talk a lot and say nothing at all. All right? So a lot of the times, these networking events are really just more of a social dance and a way of just finding who's comfortable with who, and who's friends and who's not. So I don't, I don't want you to overthink it, but I know that's not all that helpful. So Linda, I'm gonna s- say some things that [laughs] I'm gonna try to say some

10. 9:05 – 10:35

    Body language and props: look curious, stay relaxed, keep hands occupied

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:05

       things that are. So when somebody is talking with you, one thing that you can do that I like to do is I will, um... It's, well, it becomes s- subconscious, but if you wanna find that you're more engaged with people and get kinda curious with people, uh, physically, one thing that y- you can work on is I like to slowly ki- you just kind of cock your head a little bit to the side. That makes it look like you're much more interested in what they have to say, rather than just, like, "I, I just wanna talk to you." So it's, you don't wanna have crazy eyes. You don't wanna have it to where you feel like you're in front of their face. You're just kind of at a distance where your shoulders are relaxed, you feel relaxed. It helps me, uh, if you're holding something. Especially these networking events, everybody kinda expects you to have something in your hand. It does not have to be a drink. It can be a snack. It could be any kind of refreshment that they have. But it, it keeps your hands busy, Linda. That's, that's why I'm saying it, because it, it keeps your hands from having to, like, fiddle with themselves, or maybe you don't know what to do with them, so you kinda cross them. When you hold something, it keeps your stance open, and what I'm gonna encourage you to do on top of that is to just barely slide your head to the, the side. E- either side. It doesn't matter, the left or the right. But it, it, it gives this posture of wanting to kind of be curious. And when you smile and you're asking questions and they start to respond, if you can just move your head just a little bit to the side, it's gonna open them up as if, hey, you're being a little bit more curious about them to have more conversation. Another thing that's gonna help, Linda, is understanding

11. 10:35 – 11:35

    Lower the bar: focus on one good conversation, not working the room

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:35

       that don't go into these events thinking you have to talk to every single person. Like there's a win and a loss kinda thing. There's something to win and lose. That's not it. If you can just go in with the idea of just talking to one person, yeah, it's that basic, just one person, and having a good conversation with them, I would rather trade 20 little small talks that mean nothing at all versus one awesome conversation with somebody that I want to talk to every time. I'll trade that every single time. So when you're going t- into these types of, of scenarios, Linda, just, it's gonna help you if you already know who's gonna be there, and you make sure that you go talk to that person. If it's a friend, awesome. That's great. The biggest thing is that people just see you around. They see that you're having a good time. But if you're closed off in a corner, even if you're talking to somebody and you just have, um, you, you have a closed-off posture, your arms are closed, your, your shoulders are hunched, and you're, you're kinda

12. 11:35 – 12:37

    What to say when you approach: ‘What’s exciting in your life right now?’ + reciprocate

    1. JFJefferson Fisher11:35

       turned off to the group, they're gonna find that a little bit more... It's, it's gonna signal at least that you're not wanting to talk to anybody, and maybe you don't. But you asked the question, "How, how can we, how can you get better at that?" Keep a much more open stance and, and go in trying to think of just one or two people that you want to make eye contact with and conversation with. It doesn't mean you have to plan out these conversations ahead of time. You certainly can. And what I would encourage you to do is take some of the things that I said at the beginning of this episode Of asking, going up to somebody, say, "Hi." I assume eith- it doesn't matter if you know them or not, and you could ask them the question of, "What, what was something exciting happen in your week? What's, what's hap- um, what's exciting in your life right now?" See how, how it's just one question right there. What's exciting in your life right now? Easy. And you let them talk, and then once they share it, you share something that's going on and exciting in your, in your life. You can't just ask a question and then expect not to have any kind of answer of your own.

13. 12:37 – 14:09

    Exit on a high note: end early before the conversation drains out

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:37

       So it's that kind of that back and forth, that mutual contract that I talked about, uh, Linda, that's gonna make sure that you are keeping the ball rolling in the air. And it, it is much easier for you to end the conversation, this would be point three for you. If you feel that the conversation is starting to run low, get out fast. Say, "Hey, it's, it's been great to talk to you. I'm gonna go grab something to, to eat or drink." Whatever it is. "I'm gonna run to go see..." Whatever. It doesn't matter. It, the biggest thing is if you can end the conversation on a high note, rather than forcing each other to talk when you really d- are kind of done talking to each other, and then leave the conversation, well, now you kind of drained each other. So if you can, try to leave the conversation on a high note. So if they responded to your, "What's, you know, most exciting in your world today?" And they give you an awesome answer, you say, "Oh, that's fabulous." Ask maybe another question about it. Go, "Oh, that's fantastic." And if they don't ask anything of you, typically they should. I mean, that's, they should. But if they don't, that's cool. We just say, "Wow, that's awesome. Well, I'm, I'm super proud of you. That sounds really exciting. It was great to talk with you." And then you leave, and now you've left on a high note. Now, Linda, you've made a good impression because all you do is talk about them, and they're gonna, they're really gonna like that. So, uh, Linda, those are just some quick takeaways, but at the end of the day, you just do what makes you special. All right? You, you do what makes you you, and if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. You stick with what feels good in, in your lane, and, uh, what resonates and feels

14. 14:09 – 15:10

    Closing recap: the three small-talk upgrades and the reusable formula

    1. JFJefferson Fisher14:09

       right to you. Thanks for the question. Thank you for listening to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. If you enjoyed today's, uh, small episode on small talk, then I'm [laughs] gonna ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review or a star or a comment, anything really does help. Today, we learned all about small talk, that you can improve it by asking questions that are about the doing, asking what they're excited about. You're asking questions that are focused on the future. Number two, we talked about open-ended questions versus closed-ended questions, where closed-ended forces the person to answer with just a yes or a no, but an open-ended question invites them to talk, and you can do that by beginning your question with what, how, or when. Questions like that. And then number three, we learned that if you feel like the conversation's going to a natural end, no problem at all. Or if you want, you can use my super secret formula that I talked about in the episode that can get people to talk about just about anything at all. So that's the, uh, podcast for today. You can always try that, and as always, follow me

Episode duration: 15:11