People Respect You More When You’re Honest ft. Ben Bruno

1. 0:00 – 2:31

   Meeting through Instagram: turning “anti-social media” into a real friendship

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      What's your mindset in how to speak directly to people who have perhaps a higher ego or a very, you know, inflated high sense of self?

   2. BBBen Bruno0:11

      It's very important to be direct. Being direct doesn't mean you have to be a jerk.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:15

      People trust you more when you tell them no.

   4. BBBen Bruno0:20

      I would say-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher0:21

      I'd put it that way

   6. BBBen Bruno0:21

      ... people trust you more when you tell the truth. When people are coming to you for your opinion, it's very important to give a clear opinion.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher0:32

      Dude, it's so good to see you.

   8. BBBen Bruno0:34

      This is awesome.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher0:35

      Yeah, the, the fact that you're, you're here, um, I have to tell people how you and I even met because this is, I guess to me, the, the epitome of social media was-

   10. BBBen Bruno0:48

       The actual social part.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher0:50

       Yeah, the social-

   12. BBBen Bruno0:50

       Yeah

   13. JFJefferson Fisher0:50

       ... the social part. I see you on Instagram, and I'm like, "Oh, this guy's cool. I like fitness. I wanna see what he's about." And then I started following you, and I was like, "He gives really great fitness advice." And then you followed me back, and then it was like, uh, "Hey, bro. Hey, bro." [laughs]

   14. BBBen Bruno1:08

       Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

   15. JFJefferson Fisher1:08

       It's like, "I like your stuff." And then, and then we've known, we've been friends-

   16. BBBen Bruno1:13

       I'm just listening 'cause I wanna hear your story, then I'll share my-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher1:15

       Yeah

   18. BBBen Bruno1:15

       ... version of your story.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher1:16

       Right. Well, that's, that's my version, and it was like, "Hey, I like your stuff." "Hey, I like your stuff, too." And then the next time I was going, shortly after, I was going to LA to do a bunch of podcast tours for the first time, and I thought, "Well, I could hit him up and just say what's up," to hang out.

   20. BBBen Bruno1:34

       Yeah.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher1:34

       And your version of a hangout is, "Let's go work out." [laughs]

   22. BBBen Bruno1:36

       Let's just lift. Yeah.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher1:38

       Yeah. And so I was, I was, I was pumped, and then we've been, we've been friends ever since.

   24. BBBen Bruno1:43

       Well, you're one of the, my only friends I've met through social media.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher1:48

       Nice.

   26. BBBen Bruno1:48

       'Cause I actually feel, as somebody who participates in social media but kinda lives my life in the real world and then just does social media, I feel like it should be called anti-social media-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher1:59

       Yeah

   28. BBBen Bruno1:59

       ... 'cause I feel like most of it's just negative and-

   29. JFJefferson Fisher2:02

       [laughs]

   30. BBBen Bruno2:02

       ... just all that type of stuff. But I remember it that because you have a lot of followers-
2. 2:31 – 6:18

   Garage-gym banter: surprises, shirtless jokes, and “Step Brothers” energy

   1. BBBen Bruno2:31

      I liked it. You give some good, good tips. And then when we lifted, do your podcast listeners know you're jacked?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher2:38

      [laughs]

   3. BBBen Bruno2:38

      Do you ever, do you ever podcast with your shirt off?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher2:40

      We, we keep, we keep that a secret.

   5. BBBen Bruno2:41

      See, I'm actually, if I were-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher2:42

      We keep that a secret

   7. BBBen Bruno2:43

      ... to me you should just, like-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher2:44

      Yeah

   9. BBBen Bruno2:45

      ... always podcast with your shirt off.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher2:46

       [laughs]

   11. BBBen Bruno2:46

       But you came over one time and started benching the hundreds.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher2:51

       Yeah.

   13. BBBen Bruno2:51

       And I was like, "Actually, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but from the neck up-

   14. JFJefferson Fisher2:55

       [laughs]

   15. BBBen Bruno2:56

       ... with, like, the side part-

   16. JFJefferson Fisher2:57

       [laughs]

   17. BBBen Bruno2:57

       ... you kinda don't strike me as a workout guy."

   18. JFJefferson Fisher3:00

       [laughs]

   19. BBBen Bruno3:00

       No offense.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher3:01

       Oh, my God.

   21. BBBen Bruno3:01

       'Cause you're like, you, you-

   22. JFJefferson Fisher3:03

       Yeah

   23. BBBen Bruno3:03

       ... to me, I was like, "You're like a nerdy lawyer."

   24. JFJefferson Fisher3:06

       Yeah, it just is nice.

   25. BBBen Bruno3:07

       And then you just start benching the hundreds.

   26. JFJefferson Fisher3:09

       [laughs]

   27. BBBen Bruno3:10

       And then I remember things got real about halfway in 'cause you're like, "Oh, I can't sweat through my shirt 'cause I have a podcast."

   28. JFJefferson Fisher3:17

       Yeah.

   29. BBBen Bruno3:17

       And you take your shirt off, and I'm like, "You def- definitely did that on purpose-

   30. JFJefferson Fisher3:20

       [laughs] Yeah
3. 6:18 – 11:22

   Training celebrities: why the gym is the ultimate equalizer

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:18

      Yeah, dude. Um, I, I... Where I wanna take us first, you train some of the most well-known people in the world, and you often have to also be willing to tell them no. How, how do you tell somebody no when they either have high ego or have a very high feeling of they're somebody who feels like they know everything?

   2. BBBen Bruno6:50

      I truly believe that training is one of life's greatest and only equalizers, in the sense that if you're super rich, if you're super famous, a lot of rules don't apply to you. You can cut the line. You can get tickets to something that's sold out. You can fly privately and avoid that. You can take helicopters to avoid traffic. You can do whatever. But if you eat bad, you're gonna gain weight. If you don't-

   3. JFJefferson Fisher7:22

      [laughs]

   4. BBBen Bruno7:22

      ... do the work, you're not gonna get stronger. And truthfully, most of my strongest, fittest friends don't come from much. And, and because you don't have to to be good in the gym. And so when I moved to LA and started training the people that I do... I come from New Hampshire, by the way. I come from a town of less than 1,000 people.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher7:41

      Mm.

   6. BBBen Bruno7:42

      So people frequently tell me that I seem unfazed by celebrity, and that's actually not true. I'm very phased by it. It's kind of crazy to me, and my average day is kinda wild to me, the people that I see.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher7:56

      [laughs] Yeah.

   8. BBBen Bruno7:57

      Uh, but... And I'm very appreciative of talent, so I... You know, you'll hear people say, like, "Celebrities are just like everyone else," and I'm like, "Mm, not really." They're way more talented than most people-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher8:09

      Mm-hmm

   10. BBBen Bruno8:09

       ... in at least one way-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher8:10

       Mm-hmm

   12. BBBen Bruno8:10

       ... and that's why they're where they're at. But uh, you have to remember that I deal with people in an arena where it's not their specialty, but it's my specialty, so it's inverted a little bit. You know, I've trained a lot of people that I'll tell you I was a huge fan of before.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher8:28

       Mm.

   14. BBBen Bruno8:28

       And I, uh, and I was a huge fan of, of their movies, for example. I was a huge fan of their music, or I'm a big sports fan, the people that-

   15. JFJefferson Fisher8:35

       Mm

   16. BBBen Bruno8:35

       ... I watched on TV. But, you know, the guy who's famous for movies is not an expert at training. And-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher8:43

       Yeah

   18. BBBen Bruno8:43

       ... uh, you know, and, and so they're actually coming to me for the help, and I, I very much struggle with confidence in most areas of my life, but I'm very confident in the confines of the gym. And so that has really helped me. And then I've also learned that people at the highest level still want... They come to me to improve their health and fitness. So when you say, "Is it hard to say no?" It is in some ways, and it's, you know, it's a different conversation than you asked. It's quite hard for me sometimes to draw personal boundaries-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher9:19

       Mm-hmm

   20. BBBen Bruno9:20

       ... and stuff with my clients. But in terms of training, it's very simple. You know, uh, uh, to many people, these are people that they look up to, idolize, and sometimes I do, too. But in the confines of fitness, I'm just giving them tips. And-

   21. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

       Mm-hmm

   22. BBBen Bruno9:40

       ... you know, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't tell them they're doing it wrong or... You know, I, I'll never forget, I've trained Justin Timberlake for, like, 12 years, and about a year into training, I went to some social thing that he was at. Usually, I don't really hang out with my clients socially.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher9:56

       Mm-hmm.

   24. BBBen Bruno9:56

       And he introduced me to somebody, and he was really complimentary. And he goes, "Oh, dude, Ben's my guy. He's the best trainer. Like, he, like, really corrects your form." And I was waiting for him to say something else, and then that was it. It was like, "He corrects my form."

   25. JFJefferson Fisher10:11

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BBBen Bruno10:11

       And I remember in the gym the next day saying, like, "Dude, not for nothing, but, like, that's a pretty low bar if all I had to do was-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher10:18

       [laughs]

   28. BBBen Bruno10:18

       ... correct your form." And he's like, "Oh, yeah, dude. Like, a lot of people just kinda, like, wanna be my friend, so they don't really correct my form or tell me I'm doing it wrong."

   29. JFJefferson Fisher10:26

       Yeah.

   30. BBBen Bruno10:26

       And I was just thinking, "How stupid." Like, you're coming to me.
4. 11:22 – 14:15

   Saying ‘no’ vs. telling the truth: the real foundation of trust

   1. JFJefferson Fisher11:22

      What I hear w- when, how you have found to tell people no or have that confidence to tell people no is, one, you have a very high confidence in your particular thing and, and you know that area to the better than anybody else, one. Two is these are people that are coming to you who want you, in some ways, to tell them no. Like, there is, I think, and this would be the third point, of that people trust you more when you tell them no. So I, I guess I would, I would, I'd, I'd put it that way.

   2. BBBen Bruno12:05

      I would say people trust you more when you tell the truth.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher12:09

      Tell me about that

   4. BBBen Bruno12:10

      'Cause I don't think, when you say no, I just wanna kinda not push back, but clarify, I guess, that I'm not this militant guy that's yelling at people-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher12:22

      Right

   6. BBBen Bruno12:22

      ... because I am a very voluntary-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher12:26

      Yeah

   8. BBBen Bruno12:26

      ... service. I always say that I've made a living selling a service that people don't like very much.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher12:32

      Yeah. [laughs]

   10. BBBen Bruno12:32

       And so I actually-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher12:33

       Yeah

   12. BBBen Bruno12:34

       ... do my best to make something that people don't really enjoy be at least somewhat palatable. So I don't try to be a hard ass intentionally.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher12:44

       Right. Mm-hmm.

   14. BBBen Bruno12:45

       Because I don't, first off, I don't think anybody would wanna work out consistently if you were. So it's, it's not no so much as telling them if they're doing it incorrectly or as just saying, "You know, what you're doing isn't the best for you."

   15. JFJefferson Fisher13:00

       Yeah, pushing back.

   16. BBBen Bruno13:01

       But, but one thing about me is I'm a trainer that really, I very much believe in meeting people where they're at.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher13:08

       Mm-hmm.

   18. BBBen Bruno13:09

       And so I have some clients that eat a lot better than me and track their food and live and die by their workout schedule, and I have some clients that party and eat bad, and I believe-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher13:23

       Mm

   20. BBBen Bruno13:23

       ... regardless of how you live the other 23 hours of your life, it's still healthier to exercise. So not, you know, I'm not the type of person that you have to be a gym head or I'm gonna confront you-

   21. JFJefferson Fisher13:37

       Right

   22. BBBen Bruno13:37

       ... to be honest. So there's not a lot of no in the sense of I actually try to work with people's likes and dislikes because I think for long-term sustainability, you have to like it to some degree. But where I say no is a lot of times clients will wanna do an exercise that I know will piss off their injuries, and then-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher13:59

       Mm-hmm

   24. BBBen Bruno13:59

       ... that's a hard no.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher14:00

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BBBen Bruno14:00

       Or they'll want to do some stupid workout they saw on social media, and I'll have to say, "Sorry, that's stupid." [laughs] You know?

   27. JFJefferson Fisher14:08

       Yeah.

   28. BBBen Bruno14:08

       That type of thing.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher14:09

       Right.

   30. BBBen Bruno14:09

       And I, that's pretty easy for me to say no, 'cause that's why they're there.
5. 14:15 – 21:15

   The HVAC lesson: why simple, decisive recommendations beat info-dumps

   1. BBBen Bruno14:15

      Even though I think, um, I, I learn a lot about being a communicator and being a trainer from seemingly unrelated fields. Like I've, I remember one time I had to replace the HVAC system at my house, and I got... The first guy that came in for a quote came in with his binder, and he gave me five different units I could get, and it was like they were priced all over the map from, like, five grand to, like, 50 grand. And he was just telling me the pros and cons of every HVAC system.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher14:50

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BBBen Bruno14:50

      And as somebody who doesn't know anything about HVAC systems, he gave this whole talk, and I was just sorta like-

   4. JFJefferson Fisher14:58

      Yeah

   5. BBBen Bruno14:58

      ... and then at the end I was like, "So, like, which one should I get?" And he was like, "Well, it really depends on your likes and dislikes and goals." And I'm like, "Dude, I don't know anything about this." He left, and I'm like, "All right. We gotta call someone else."

   6. JFJefferson Fisher15:08

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BBBen Bruno15:09

      The next guy came in, and he was like, "Hey, there's this model that's, like, cheap. It might do the job, but, like, then there's this one that's a little more expensive and, but it'll last you longer." And I'm like, "Cool. Done." And then I just thought, "That's how I should train," 'cause I'm training, I train people that don't live for the gym. They have the level of care that I have for the, my HVAC system.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher15:31

      Hmm.

   9. BBBen Bruno15:31

      They just wanna be told what to do. And I'm somebody that eats and breathes training. I am a closet nerd. I read research reviews about emerging strength and conditioning research, but I lear- train people that don't give a [censored] about that and-

   10. JFJefferson Fisher15:46

       Mm

   11. BBBen Bruno15:46

       ... just wanna be fit, feel good. And so if you were a fly on the wall in, in my gym, trainers would think that I don't really understand training that well because I speak i- in a very simple way. I kinda talk like a bro, and it's intentional, 'cause I don't think people want to train with a science nerd, the same way I didn't want that guy's PowerPoint on HVAC systems without a clear recommendation. Most of my clients that I've had for a long time, we never even talk about training at this point. We, I just come in, I show them something, tell them how many reps to do, and we just talk about life.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher16:23

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   13. BBBen Bruno17:43

       Tiny.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher17:44

       It's, it's, it's incredibly tiny, smaller than this living room, and it, uh, I wouldn't say it even has that many pieces of equipment. But I will say it's [laughs] been one of the best workouts I've ever gotten. But I think that has-

   15. BBBen Bruno17:57

       Thank you

   16. JFJefferson Fisher17:57

       ... a lot to do with what you just said, comparing that to the HVAC system. Or, or we know, all know what that's like when you go into a store and maybe you wanna get, I don't know. I, I, I went and got, uh, a new pair of running shoes and went to one of those that where they, like, check out your feet-

   17. BBBen Bruno18:14

       Yeah, yeah

   18. JFJefferson Fisher18:14

       ... and, like, take a scan or whatever. And they brought me all kinds of recommendations, and I, I just need you to tell me what's for this kind-

   19. BBBen Bruno18:23

       Yeah

   20. JFJefferson Fisher18:23

       ... of mileage, this kind of shoe, and I couldn't get that answer. And so that was really frustrating.

   21. BBBen Bruno18:29

       Yep.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher18:29

       And I think the overarching lesson here, because I, I like to frame things to use your knowledge to help somebody in everyday situations. And so it's if you can be really direct about the recommendation for whatever it is, whatever your answer is, because people like the, the minim- mm, they like minimizing choices, and I also think they like, um, firm responses. And I think you did that, because you were really good at little tweaks to form, being consistent. You, you were very good at reading the body of what seems to be straining, what doesn't seem to be straining. And it's th- uh, this kind of very big contrast of people think, and if we use fitness, for example, you, you have to do all this stuff, 'cause there's just... It can be incredibly overwhelming. If you Google, "How do I lose five pounds?" Right?

   23. BBBen Bruno19:33

       Yeah.

   24. JFJefferson Fisher19:33

       You'll just see the, um, uh, just huge stuff. Well, but in here, y- what I know your methods to be is actually there's, there's some pretty simple things that you can... It doesn't have to be that complex. Like, we're very good at overcomplicating things, and I feel like that's the same way in communication. We can overcomplicate, overexplain, overjustify, when the answer is usually something very simple that can make a big, meaningful adjustment.

   25. BBBen Bruno20:05

       I think social media has dr- significantly overcomplicated fitness, because I think that the people that disseminate the info continually try to reinvent and reinvent and reinvent the wheel to have stuff to talk about. And st- and as a lifelong trainer who now the last couple years has participated in the online world, I really struggle, because I feel like the prescription's pretty simple.

   26. JFJefferson Fisher20:37

       Mm-hmm.

   27. BBBen Bruno20:38

       But I sit there and think, "How many times can I say this?" And, you know, I might... You, you feel stressed to put a little something on-

   28. JFJefferson Fisher20:48

       Mm

   29. BBBen Bruno20:48

       ... the basics to make it sound better. And, you know, I believe at the same time, you know, if I get a high-level athlete that only has two months to get in shape, I'm not gonna do any of that.

   30. JFJefferson Fisher21:00

       Mm.
6. 21:15 – 22:53

   Coaching trainers: the ‘personal’ in personal training is about the client

   1. JFJefferson Fisher21:15

      I know that on top of all of your clients, you also train the trainers, like you coach-

   2. BBBen Bruno21:21

      Yes

   3. JFJefferson Fisher21:21

      ... the coaches.

   4. BBBen Bruno21:22

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher21:22

      What would you say are your top three things that you tell these other fitness coaches or other trainers are some of the most important things to, to do when you're kinda passing on that information?

   6. BBBen Bruno21:35

      First, always remember that the personal part of personal training refers to them, not you. Second, uh, almost everyone that gets into training does so 'cause they're obsessed with fitness, but trainers have to realize the people that hire trainers aren't-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher21:52

      [laughs]

   8. BBBen Bruno21:52

      ... obsessed with fitness.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher21:54

      [laughs] Yeah.

   10. BBBen Bruno21:55

       So you gotta keep it simple.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher21:57

       Right.

   12. BBBen Bruno21:58

       Three, because those people aren't obsessed with fitness, uh, simple always wins. Complex solutions look better in social media. They m- might make you sound smarter, but for people to actually stick to it, simple always wins. And I think that fitness people that like to work out try to do as much as they possibly can. So, you know, I'll see online people that work out five, six, seven days a week, and they have these really complicated workout splits, and they're al- they're always gonna be fit, but they could look and take it, look the exact same and be just as strong if they did half that. And-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher22:44

       And probably have a little bit better life

   14. BBBen Bruno22:46

       ... way better life.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher22:46

       Yeah.

   16. BBBen Bruno22:46

       And so the people that I train are the type that are interested in doing the least work for the most result.

7. 22:53 – 25:22

   Practicality over perfection: full-body training, burnout, and ‘regular people’ goals

   1. JFJefferson Fisher22:53

      Is that your intention with how you communicate with your clients too, that simple always wins?

   2. BBBen Bruno22:59

      Yeah, so, so I, I always say practicality trumps perfection, and I don't train a single client that works out with me on a set schedule. So a lot of my training philosophy is based on the logistics of my situation.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher23:17

      Mm-hmm.

   4. BBBen Bruno23:17

      And that, you know, I might see someone on a Monday and say, "What's the rest of our week like?" And it's like, "Well, I don't know yet." So for example, we do almost exclusively full-body workouts, which I do for both practical and results-driven reasons. I think f- you know, for the physique and goals that most regular people have, which is to look lean but not crazy lean, uh, muscular-ish, but not jacked. You know, people hate the word toned, but we all know what it means. Um, and to be fit, but they're not great... Like, fitness people too often grade results based on how much weight can you lift on certain exercises, where most people that go to the gym don't care. They just wanna be strong and have it, and be able to be active and participate in life at a high level.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher24:10

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BBBen Bruno24:11

      So to do that, you don't have to give your life over to the gym.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher24:15

      Yeah.

   8. BBBen Bruno24:16

      But I think that fitness people just like to. So they th- f- you know, they try to cram as much into it, which I- I actually think I've become a... I've been a trainer for 20 years now, and when I first started, I was obsessed with working out, and I've got gradually less and less obsessed to the point that a lot of times I don't even like it. And I feel like that has made me an infinitely better trainer to most normal people, because my goal is to kinda do the bare minimum and still get the result now, whereas it used to be to do as much as I could, 'cause I liked it and it was kinda my mental outlet. And I've experienced my own burnout from fitness, and I think that's made me much more relatable to my clients, because I think that we share the same goals, which is wanting to look pretty good, feel pretty good, perform pretty good, don't really care to do things at a crazy high level.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher25:16

      Yeah.

   10. BBBen Bruno25:16

       And I don't wanna have to do this more than two to three days a week-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher25:20

       [laughs] Yeah. No

   12. BBBen Bruno25:21

       ... to be honest.

8. 25:22 – 30:31

   Honest vs. direct—and how to be truthful without being a jerk

   1. JFJefferson Fisher25:22

      This might be one to chew on for a little bit, but I am curious of what you'd think. If there was one word that you'd have to describe your communication and how you speak to your clients, what word do you think they would say?

   2. BBBen Bruno25:38

      Honest.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher25:39

      Honest.

   4. BBBen Bruno25:39

      And the only reason I'll say that, you said direct, I say honest. JT is one of my longest clients. He also was part of my best man speech at my wedding.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher25:49

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BBBen Bruno25:49

      And he said verbatim, "Ben is the most honest guy I know." And so I can live with that. And by the way, that's not a total compliment.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher26:00

      [laughs]

   8. BBBen Bruno26:00

      It's com- you know what I mean? That's why when you said-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher26:02

      Yeah

   10. BBBen Bruno26:03

       ... you know, Ben's direct, I said-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher26:04

       Yeah

   12. BBBen Bruno26:04

       ... "Is that a backhanded?"

   13. JFJefferson Fisher26:06

       No.

   14. BBBen Bruno26:06

       Because I think, uh, honesty's obviously a good quality.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher26:11

       Right.

   16. BBBen Bruno26:11

       But I think that I struggle sometimes to, uh, like, you know, there's times that brutal honesty is not the best policy. [laughs]

   17. JFJefferson Fisher26:22

       [laughs] Yeah.

   18. BBBen Bruno26:23

       You know? Um-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher26:23

       Right. For sure

   20. BBBen Bruno26:24

       ... so, so I, but I would say that people would say I'm honest, which I can live with, you know? Th- like, uh, but I, but I do wanna clarify that that's not a 100% positive.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher26:35

       Right. Well-

   22. BBBen Bruno26:36

       That was said sort of as a joke, too. Just the way you said direct, like-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher26:40

       Yeah

   24. BBBen Bruno26:40

       ... you know? Uh, like, when you say direct in the context of a podcast, it makes me look good. When you-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher26:46

       Well, because I do think it is

   26. BBBen Bruno26:47

       ... when, when... Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying, like, you know, we go to dinner later with my other friends-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher26:54

       Mm. Mm

   28. BBBen Bruno26:54

       ... and you guys make fun of me for being direct.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher26:56

       Yeah.

   30. BBBen Bruno26:56

       It's kinda like, you know, sometimes you can be too direct. Uh-
9. 30:31 – 42:29

   Communicating with big egos: polite directness + the Platinum Rule

   1. JFJefferson Fisher30:31

      Right. So I wanna teach- I want us to think for a moment that we're, we're teaching somebody who's, who's listening, and this person is somebody who, who struggles with concept of speaking directly.

   2. BBBen Bruno30:43

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher30:44

      Struggles with the idea of pushing back on somebody's ideas. Uh, and they're somebody who really does care. They, they wish they could be like, "I don't, I don't care of other people's opinion," but d- deep down they real- they really do. For you, what's your mindset in how to speak directly to people who have perhaps a higher ego or a very, you know, inflated high sense of self?

   4. BBBen Bruno31:13

      It's very important to be direct.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher31:15

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BBBen Bruno31:15

      I also think it's important to know that being direct doesn't mean you have to be a jerk.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher31:20

      Mm-hmm.

   8. BBBen Bruno31:21

      And it actually, you, it's better to not be a jerk.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher31:25

      [laughs]

   10. BBBen Bruno31:25

       So it's better to be politely direct. But I do think that when people are coming to you for your opinion, it's very important to give a clear opinion and not waver. And I think that too often people, when they're asked for their opinion, particularly from people like the people I train, quickly think, "What, what do they want me to say?" And I think that I try to just sh- say what I think and realize that they're coming to me for this, and that is really important. I, I had a very, uh... This is probably, like, 12 years ago. Shortly into my time in LA, I trained this guy who was a really successful movie producer.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher32:17

       Mm-hmm.

   12. BBBen Bruno32:17

       And he became kinda like a dad figure to me, and I was telling him my struggles with drawing boundaries with my bigshot clients. And he said to me, "You just have to make them realize that you're the them of training," and that really helped me.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher32:39

       Why so?

   14. BBBen Bruno32:40

       Because one, it really improved my confidence almost immediately because I thought, "Yeah, I mean, they're calling me for this." And then two, it almost instantly... Uh, there's something freeing about just, like, saying the thing, and it's always gone well. I think a lot of times people hem and haw over what to say-

   15. JFJefferson Fisher33:04

       Mm

   16. BBBen Bruno33:05

       ... because they're nervous about how it's gonna be taken. And not always, but most of the time that I've given an honest, direct reply to somebody, it's received with thanks rather than pushback.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher33:24

       Why do you think that is? What, like, the, the hidden power of when you are, you give the direct, honest answer?

   18. BBBen Bruno33:30

       Here's where it's interesting. I, I, I've talked to you about this.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher33:34

       Mm-hmm.

   20. BBBen Bruno33:35

       But I read a book called The Platinum Rule.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher33:38

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BBBen Bruno33:39

       And The Platinum Rule, it's a long book. People could read it, but I'll sum it up for them in two seconds. The Golden Rule is do unto others as you'd want done unto you. The Platinum Rule is treat others how they wanna be treated.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher33:51

       Mm-hmm.

   24. BBBen Bruno33:52

       And so when you think about that, it really helps your communication because... [sighs] Think about if somebody were, if you asked somebody for their advice and they gave a roundabout answer and didn't give you a clear-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher34:09

       Mm

   26. BBBen Bruno34:09

       ... direct response, that would be annoying, so just do the same. But I think that people worry if I am direct or if I disagree, they're gonna think less of me or they're gonna not like me or they're gonna judge me, and most of the time that's just in your head. They're not gonna judge you. They're gonna appreciate that you shot straight with them-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher34:26

       Mm-hmm

   28. BBBen Bruno34:26

       ... and they'll continue to go to you. Because I think that some people like a yes-man, but I think more people like that friend or that person that's gonna tell 'em what they really think.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher34:41

       And it's, I feel like the, the people that I know in my life, and you're one of 'em, that I can go to and know that I'm gonna get a straight answer-

   30. BBBen Bruno34:52

       Yeah
10. 42:29 – 52:31

    Reading the room: intake questions, ‘How are you feeling?’, and comfort with silence

    1. JFJefferson Fisher42:29

       Do... So I wanna focus in on what you just said. You, you could have five to seven high-profile clients coming through your door, through the, in, in, in your garage there in the gym and working out, and you have to give the same message ... you know, five to seven different ways. How, how, what's your process if you had to put it in some type of formula of how you know, first, of the style of that person and how you adjust your message every time to make sure that there's, you know, an optimized level of, of trust?

    2. BBBen Bruno43:07

       Well, there's a feel-out process to any relationship. So I think in the beginning, I'm always really nice.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher43:14

       You ask lots of questions.

    4. BBBen Bruno43:15

       Yeah, I ask a lot of questions. So any time a new client comes in, I start with three questions. So to backtrack, any time a new client comes in, regardless of what they do in their life, I ask three simple questions: what are your goals, what's your injury history, and what's your past training history?

    5. JFJefferson Fisher43:34

       Mm-hmm.

    6. BBBen Bruno43:34

       The goals and injury history help develop the actual tangible plan. The past training history gives me a quick rundown of their exercise background and allows me to meet them where they're at, both in terms of the actual workout and in terms of how into the gym process they are.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher43:51

       Mm-hmm.

    8. BBBen Bruno43:52

       So people that are gym heads, we can get right to it and go pretty hard. People that are newer to it, we start pretty slowly and build over time, and so that's important. And then the way they answer those questions also helps me. So the actual info helps me. The way they answer allows me to know their basic vibe and how they approach fitness. Are they somebody that is super hardcore about this? Are they nervous? A lot of people come to the gym with fear, and that's super important to take into account. If somebody's fearful-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher44:22

       Especially, like, insecurities.

    10. BBBen Bruno44:24

        Yeah.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher44:24

        Yeah.

    12. BBBen Bruno44:24

        If somebody is insecure or if they're scared of getting hurt or if they're scared, a lot of women are scared initially of bulking up-

    13. JFJefferson Fisher44:30

        Mm-hmm

    14. BBBen Bruno44:31

        ... I try to put their minds at ease, and I'll be a whole lot more gentle in my approach. If somebody is pretty gung-ho about the whole process, we will start a little harder.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher44:44

        Mm-hmm.

    16. BBBen Bruno44:44

        And if somebody comes in really as a know-it-all or arrogant, sometimes I like to kind of chop them down at the knees a little-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher44:53

        [laughs]

    18. BBBen Bruno44:54

        ... and bring them back to life and, and make them realize sort of this is my dojo.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher44:58

        Right, right, yeah. This is my dojo. [laughs]

    20. BBBen Bruno45:00

        Yeah.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher45:00

        I like that.

    22. BBBen Bruno45:01

        Yeah.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher45:01

        Okay. So I, I hear that on feeling them out. Is there... I don't know, I'm just curious. Is there one question that you ask not for the answer but to see how they really respond to it?

    24. BBBen Bruno45:21

        Uh, every single day. Yeah. So every workout, you know, trainers love to get really granular with assessments. My assessment daily is asking you, "How are you feeling?"

    25. JFJefferson Fisher45:33

        Mm-hmm.

    26. BBBen Bruno45:34

        And that could be answered a number of ways, and so I leave it purposely open-ended because how you feeling could be, "My back hurts, my knee hurts, my shoulder hurts." How you feeling could be, "I didn't sleep well last night. I got in a fight with my partner."

    27. JFJefferson Fisher45:48

        Mm.

    28. BBBen Bruno45:48

        "My kid didn't sleep." It could be, "I have a crazy day today, and I only have 30 minutes." Just, just very open-ended question, and I don't really care how you answer it, but how you answer it dictates how I'm gonna proceed in the workout.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher46:04

        The goal here of how we're gonna teach everybody listening to gain that level of true honesty, no matter how difficult the other person is, is I hear you saying, one, there's this feeling out process, and it starts with open-ended questions, and the one that you have found above all others is a simple... It's not compli- complicated. It's simple, and it's, "How are you feeling?"

    30. BBBen Bruno46:26

        Correct.
11. 52:31 – 57:28

    It’s never too late: training at 80, 90, even 100+ (with smart expectations)

    1. JFJefferson Fisher52:31

       Right. What would you say, you know, for the person right now who they think it's, it's too late to kinda start on their recovery journey? Uh, do you think there's a time to where there's ever-

    2. BBBen Bruno52:48

       No

    3. JFJefferson Fisher52:48

       ... it's too late to start fitness?

    4. BBBen Bruno52:50

       Uh, I, I've trained three women over 100.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher52:57

       No way.

    6. BBBen Bruno52:57

       Yeah. [laughs]

    7. JFJefferson Fisher52:58

       No way.

    8. BBBen Bruno52:59

       I've trained three women over 100, and I actually, you know, ch- this, this kinda dates me. I've been a trainer for 20 years now. Last month, I went to the funeral of one of my clients.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher53:11

       No way.

    10. BBBen Bruno53:11

        But I trained her, uh... She passed away at-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher53:16

        Oh, man

    12. BBBen Bruno53:16

        ... 90, but I trained her-

    13. JFJefferson Fisher53:19

        Wow

    14. BBBen Bruno53:19

        ... up until a year before she passed away while she was on oxygen. She had an oxygen tube under her nose, and we were still working out in a chair. So, and I trained my grandma till she was 99.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher53:30

        Wow.

    16. BBBen Bruno53:31

        Uh, I taught exercise classes at the nursing home, and I have seen, I have some clients in their 70s that would bury you, to be honest. Like, really-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher53:46

        Nice

    18. BBBen Bruno53:46

        ... like, really fit.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher53:47

        Nice.

    20. BBBen Bruno53:48

        Like, and, uh, you know, those pe- those type of people, I don't wanna, like, say that you could start training at 70 and get like that. They're, they're just trained their whole life.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher53:56

        Right.

    22. BBBen Bruno53:56

        But I, I do believe, you know, there's a lot of cliches with this, but I, I believe it's never too late to start. You know, my, my m- mom has a best friend, Pam. She's always kinda been like a mom to me, too. Pam, I posted Pam last year, and she's 80. And Pam started working out at 78, and kicks ass.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher54:19

        That's awesome. [laughs]

    24. BBBen Bruno54:20

        Yeah. And, and I say that, uh, I'm not just saying that 'cause she's the... Like, Pam is, is really-

    25. JFJefferson Fisher54:27

        Shout out Pam.

    26. BBBen Bruno54:28

        Yeah. And you know, uh, I post my mom all the time-

    27. JFJefferson Fisher54:32

        Yeah

    28. BBBen Bruno54:33

        ... who, by the way, is a fan of you. Uh-

    29. JFJefferson Fisher54:35

        Yeah, I love Mama Bruno

    30. BBBen Bruno54:36

        ... and my mom is 76, and, you know, is, like, a black belt in the gym, to be honest. So, uh-
12. 57:28 – 1:10:49

    Fitness myths & essentials: all-or-nothing thinking, best exercises, and ‘burpees are overrated’

    1. JFJefferson Fisher57:28

       What do, what is the, the, the people who come to you, um, I'm talking all, all your followers, not just the, the ones that, um, are, are at your gym, what's generally the one thing that people get wrong about fitness?

    2. BBBen Bruno57:49

       I think they take an all or nothing approach. They think that they have to work out and stick to their program and diet perfectly, or I'm not gonna start yet. Or if they fall off the wagon, they feel like they blew it. And I think that most normal people that don't like training and aren't passionate about healthy eating would do better with a much more moderate approach and giving themself a little bit more slack to do things 75, 80% well. Because I think some people thrive off that gym mentality and eating well and-

    3. JFJefferson Fisher58:28

       Mm-hmm

    4. BBBen Bruno58:28

       ... counting their calories and stuff, and they tend to be trainers, and most regular people don't like that.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher58:36

       Yeah.

    6. BBBen Bruno58:36

       And I, I've really been successful as a trainer, I think, amongst regular people because I'm kinda more like that. I'd rather, I'd rather be 10 pounds dumpier than count my calories.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher58:52

       [laughs]

    8. BBBen Bruno58:52

       That's, like, my worst nightmare. That's like a prison to me.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher58:55

       Right. Yeah.

    10. BBBen Bruno58:55

        And so, uh, and I would rather, you know, I am a trainer. I preach strength training. If a friend in- invites me to hike that I haven't seen for a while-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher59:05

        Mm

    12. BBBen Bruno59:05

        ... I'll skip my own workout 10 times out of 10, 'cause to me-

    13. JFJefferson Fisher59:07

        Right

    14. BBBen Bruno59:07

        ... the weights aren't going anywhere, but there's more to life than, you know, your workout. I'd rather go catch up with a friend and hike or-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher59:14

        Right

    16. BBBen Bruno59:14

        ... whatever, you know, that type of thing.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher59:17

        Before we get going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Our Place. I got a question. When's the last time that you thought about what you're cooking with your cookware? A lot of the times what I have learned is back in the day, I was using pans that had Teflon, uh, PFAs, forever chemicals that aren't good for you and your family, and I've had a big switch, and I can tell you that Our Place has made a bi- big impact as part of that. Our Place is a cookware brand, and all of their stuff has no forever chemicals in it. It's great. It looks good. L- comes in lots of different colors. Uh, they have this product that's called the Always Pan. That's my favorite. And then they have Perfect Pots, and it's rightfully named. Last night, we did breakfast for dinner. You ever had that? It's awesome. Well, I was able to use, I, I, we use them all the time. Uh, ours are very well-loved, well-seasoned, and I can tell you, I'm not gonna cook with anything else. So if you really care about your cookware, look no further than Our Place. Right now, you can go to fromourplace.com/jefferson and get 10% off sitewide, fromourplace.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 10% off sitewide, and they have a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and returns. Can't beat that. And now, let's keep going. If there are only two exercises that your clients, people wanting to get more fit, could do for the rest of their life, what do you think those two exercises would be?

    18. BBBen Bruno1:00:45

        A dumbbell row and a Bulgarian split squat. Bulgarian split squat-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher1:00:51

        I hate Bulgarian split-

    20. BBBen Bruno1:00:53

        ... is the absolute on the bench

    21. JFJefferson Fisher1:00:54

        ... split squats, Ben. I hate those.

    22. BBBen Bruno1:00:55

        Bulgarian split squats are, without a doubt, the most ubiquitously hated exercise in existence.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher1:01:01

        Ugh.

    24. BBBen Bruno1:01:01

        But I would also say- That the hard exercises you hate doing are the ones that work the best, so

    25. JFJefferson Fisher1:01:07

        Ah, don't tell me that.

    26. BBBen Bruno1:01:08

        Sorry.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher1:01:08

        Those are the ones I actively avoid.

    28. BBBen Bruno1:01:10

        Yeah, totally.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher1:01:10

        Avoid.

    30. BBBen Bruno1:01:11

        Which [laughs] yeah.
13. 1:10:49 – 1:18:03

    What makes a great trainer: art + science, retention, and being the same off-camera

    1. JFJefferson Fisher1:10:49

       You know, I, I see you, and you've been told, introduced to me by others, of you're kind of the trainer's trainer of-

    2. BBBen Bruno1:10:57

       Okay

    3. JFJefferson Fisher1:10:57

       ... a lot of trainers look up to you.

    4. BBBen Bruno1:10:58

       I'll take that.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher1:10:58

       Uh, a lot of gym trainers, fitness people. I think that's really telling. It's not just all consumers and people wanting to get fit. It's, it's also people who are training and coaching others. And I, if there was kinda this lasting piece of advice that you would give those people, um, yeah, what, what would it be?

    6. BBBen Bruno1:11:24

       Training is part art and part science, and depending on who you're training, the science or the art might be more important, and you have to figure that out. You have to know who cares more about the actual info and who cares more about coming to the gym for the feeling they get.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher1:11:41

       Mm.

    8. BBBen Bruno1:11:42

       And that's the art, and the art part is inextricably tied to the communication and realizing that at the end of the day, I judge a trainer almost entirely off long-term client retention. I think the world judges trainers based on who they train, how many social media followers they have, what they look like.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher1:12:05

       Mm-hmm.

    10. BBBen Bruno1:12:06

        I could lean into all three of those things, but I don't think that makes me a good trainer. I, what I take pride in is that I've kept most of my clients over 10 years, and I think that that is partly from delivering a good workout and not getting them hurt, and mostly from creating a rapport that makes them wanna keep coming back continuously even though they probably don't like fitness that much.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher1:12:31

        What do you think you do differently that others don't when it comes to why you retain clients so long?

    12. BBBen Bruno1:12:41

        I think that I'm able to size up what their real motivation for coming is and just kinda keep that at the forefront. I think some people come to make massive changes to their body, and most come to make minor changes to their body and just feel good, have a mental release, have a fun hour that they don't have to think about the hard parts of their day. The funny part about me is my whole training system is just- ... predicated on the basics.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher1:13:17

        Mm-hmm.

    14. BBBen Bruno1:13:17

        So my long-term clients probably already know what workout we're gonna do before they come, but I think they still come maybe, maybe partly for accountability, but I think that, uh, it might be better to suffer with someone else than just do it on your own.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher1:13:33

        Yeah, [laughs] for sure.

    16. BBBen Bruno1:13:34

        Um-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher1:13:35

        Well-

    18. BBBen Bruno1:13:35

        But I do think that the way to keep people long-term has much less to do about the workout and much more to do with how you interact with them during that workout.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher1:13:48

        Well, if it's both science and art, I gotta say, you, you do it very well. And, um, to have you here with me, man, is just, um, s- it's surreal [laughs] actually, I mean-

    20. BBBen Bruno1:14:03

        Well, I, I appreciate-

    21. JFJefferson Fisher1:14:04

        Yeah

    22. BBBen Bruno1:14:04

        ... this too.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher1:14:05

        Yeah.

    24. BBBen Bruno1:14:05

        I, I feel, before we end, I wanna just say, because I don't think you probably talk about yourself that much on here. I think you talk about-

    25. JFJefferson Fisher1:14:13

        [laughs]

    26. BBBen Bruno1:14:13

        ... concepts. But I wanna say that just as your homie, it's been very inspiring to get to know you, because I've met a lot of public-facing people-

    27. JFJefferson Fisher1:14:25

        Mm

    28. BBBen Bruno1:14:26

        ... that are very different behind the scenes than they are in, you know, in front of the camera, and that's pretty disheartening.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher1:14:34

        For sure.

    30. BBBen Bruno1:14:34

        And for myself as somebody, I've always been, as a trainer to famous people, I'm kinda like the guy behind the guy or-

Episode duration: 1:18:04