Simple Phrases to INSTANTLY Silence Disrespect | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 1:00

   3-step script to shut down belittling: repeat, intent questions, then silence

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      When somebody is belittling you, the first thing that I want you to do is, number one, make them say it again. That's right. I want you to make them say it again. That means you're going to tell them, "I need you to say that again. I need you to repeat that." When you make them say it again, they don't get that hit of dopamine that they're looking for. When somebody's belittling you to put you down, they're looking for that spike, uh, to get them going, to have that feeling of control. We're not going to give them that, so we're gonna talk about those strategies. Number two, if they belittle you and y- you ask them to say it again, then you're going to give them questions of intent. Questions of intent. Those are questions that ask them to have them search into the intent of why they're asking or why they're saying what they're saying. For example, "Did you intend to embarrass me? Did you want that to hurt me?" Again, we are withholding that hit of dopamine. And number three, if they have responses or they're gonna keep on going, and if they're not a person

2. 1:00 – 3:02

   Deposition story: a single intent-question makes an aggressor backtrack

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:00

      that you feel safe around, number three, y- you just say nothing at all. You let your silence be your response because often, when you say nothing at all, it's the most powerful move you can make. So one time, I had a, a case, this was probably about two years ago, and I am training a client. And by the way, I train almost every client that I have in conflict advice, how to communicate in conflict, how to say things in a way that's gonna protect them. Because when they go... when I present them for cross-examination at trial or a deposition, in many ways, I'm handing them off for somebody else to try to hurt their credibility, for somebody else to attack them. Those are the opposing attorneys. It sh- comes- it just comes part of the job. And what I did with this particular person was train her on when somebody belittles you. If they... other side, f- which I knew the other attorney was, he was very critical. He was somebody that, uh, was, you know, the type of people that just love to throw bombs in conversations just to aggravate you. It was very much like that. He was... I knew he was gonna wanna say something to upset her. He was gonna try to say something to cause a reaction. And so what I trained her in is making sure that she gets, uh, him to repeat whatever he said that was ugly in some way. And she, she seemed to understand it. We kind of practiced it a few times. But then, then on the day of the deposition, she made me so proud. So other attorney was asking her questions, and he made a snide little comment. Most people in that situation, when somebody gives you a, a, a belittling comment, you wanna take it, right? You wanna take off with it and challenge them and start getting ugly with them. She didn't do that. Instead, what she did was she asked him, "Did you say that to embarrass me?" She goes, "Uh, I'm sorry, did you, did you say that to embarrass me?" Without... I mean, just immediately, this other attorney goes, "Oh, no, no, no. I mean, no, I didn't

3. 3:02 – 4:33

   Why “say that again” works: deny the dopamine hit and expose the comment

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:02

      mean to say that." And he totally backtracked in real time. I mean, I could not... I couldn't have wiped the grin off my face. All she asked was, "Did you intend to embarrass me?" These little tips really, really work. Now, I wanna go back to number one, and that is you ask them to repeat the belittling thing that they said. I know that sounds counterintuitive. You're gonna think, "Jefferson, what are you, what are you talking about? I'm gonna ha- I'm gonna have them repeat the, the belittling thing? I'm gonna make them say it again? I have to hear it twice?" Yes. Yes, and let me tell you why. When somebody makes a belittling comment, they are wanting that reaction out of you. All right? They are wanting some kind of response. When they say something to, um, hurt you, they, they... you're giving them that reaction by being hurt, by getting upset, by huffing and puffing, throwing something back, by yelling at them. That's what they want. Often, when you ask them, "I need you to repeat that. I need you to say that again," they won't do it. They can't do it, or they'll backtrack because they realize, "Oh, wait, they're not doing what I want them to do. They're not taking the bait." And so often, they can't repeat it that second time, or they'll say it differently than they did. They'll, they'll rephrase their words. If by chance that they do say it again, now you know what you're dealing with, and that goes to number two. You ask questions of intent, and this can be used from the workplace to

4. 4:33 – 5:34

   Questions of intent: turn the conversation into a mirror

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:33

      home to kids who are being bullied in some way. When you ask somebody, "Did you intend, did you intend, did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Did you intend to hurt me?" When you ask those questions, what it does is instead of the spotlight being on you and your behavior and how you're going to respond to that belittling comment, it goes back to them. Now the, the spotlight flips. It flips, and they have to ask themself these questions like a mirror, "Why, why did I, why did I say that? Why did I do that?" They're forced to now answer the intent behind, the purpose behind their hurtful words. And so often, when that happens, the other person will apologize or rephrase or say, "I didn't, I didn't mean it that way," or they'll move on. What the, the biggest key to this is you're not going anywhere. You are showing that you're standing your ground. You're not saying anything rude. You're not putting your integrity on

5. 5:34 – 6:34

   Silence as power—especially when they double down

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:34

      the line. You're just asking them to see themselves by just saying, "Why did you do this? Did you intend to hurt me? Did you intend for that to upset me?" Because what you're telling them is, "Whatever you meant to do, it's not having that effect. Whatever you meant for that to be, you're not getting it," and they'll backtrack from it. Number three, if by chance they respond and say, "Yeah, I didn't mean to hurt you. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely meant for that to embarrass you." Understand that's not somebody you wanna be around, right? That's not somebody you want in your life. But the best thing that you can do often in th- in those situations is say nothing. Now, I don't mean that to say I'm not equipping you with any tools and just be a, you know, a, a, a wallflower, somebody just to be laid over. No. What I'm saying is often silence, when you just look at them, it says, "I don't have to respond to anything that you said." It's not having that effect, and then their, their words ring hollow because there's... It's just n- nothing for them

6. 6:34 – 9:06

   Workplace example: responding to “Nobody asked you” without escalating

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:34

      to... their words to stick onto. It's just nothing but an echo. And that's how you're gonna have something to where you're gonna be more powerful every single time. So let's run through a quick example. All right, let's assume maybe you're at work in a team meeting or something, and you make a, a suggestion, and somebody makes a belittling comment. They say, "Nobody asked you," or, "Nobody cares." All right, have you heard that before where somebody says, "Did I ask?" Or, uh, "Nobody cares. Nobody asked you." When you hear that, let's go number one, make them say it again. That means you're going to ask, "Can you repeat that?" Or, "Say that again for me. Say that again for me." They're gonna say, "Nobody asked you," if, if they actually have the guts to repeat it. Number two, gonna go to a question of intent, like, "Do you say that to make me feel less? Do you make... Do you say that to make me feel small? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my ideas?" You see how you're taking what you perceive their action to be doing, and you reflect it back on them like a mirror. "Did you intend for that to hurt my feelings?" When you say that, they then have the spotlight all on them. They have the floor to either correct the issue, accept the issue and apologize, or double down on it. And whatever they say... Now, if they apologize, it's, it's up to you if you wanna accept that apology if it, if it's been a genuine apology. But if they double down on it, th- then don't feel the need to go back at them. Don't feel the need to say anything ugly. You just let it go silent. Because if other people are around, they're gonna be paying attention to your integrity. Other people are gonna be paying attention to how you're going to respond, and the person who is more emotionally mature every single time is the person who feels like they don't have to respond to disrespect. They don't have to respond to these things that are belittling or beneath them in some way, that you have this threshold of respect before you respond to these kind of things. All right, we're at the part of the episode where I get to read a question from a follower. It's one of my favorite parts of the episode. If you're not part of my weekly newsletter, I send out an email once a week right to your inbox, and those who are part of the newsletter are able to email me questions, so that's where I get all these from. This one is from

7. 9:06 – 13:38

   Follower Q&A (Carol): stopping a coworker’s “Not bad for an old lady” comments

   1. JFJefferson Fisher9:06

      Carol. She's in Denmark. Let me pull it up. Carol says, "Hey, Jefferson. I love all of your advice." Thank you, Carol. "I have an issue with somebody at work. This is a colleague or coworker of mine, and he likes to compare me to different things. For example, he would say, 'Not bad for an old lady,' or, 'Not bad for a blank.'" I'm guessing this is like comparing you to something else. "These are things that really bother me, and I, I like to try and wave them off, downplay them, but sometimes when I'm home alone, they really, really get under my skin. What do you suggest?" Carol, I'm so sorry that that, that happens. Um, I don't like that at all. I need to meet this person. The way you described it, it was a, a male coworker, and I don't wanna get into the differences on, on men, women, but what I can tell you is here are some basics that I want you to follow. Number one, Carol, you stay as calm as possible. Don't wave this off. Don't laugh it off. Absolutely not. Because when you laugh it off or you act like it's not a big deal, it, it does nothing to stop them from doing it again. They will continue to do it. This person will continue to say these belittling things, and that's often a, a very belittling tactic is when somebody compares you to things. Uh, not bad for an ugly person. Not bad for somebody who's old and tired. Not bad for somebody who's X, Y, and Z. Or they might say, "You're s- you're so annoying. You're such an idiot." Um, you know, "You're not, not bad for the, uh, not the sharpest tool in the shed" kind of thing. These little things that they think are funny in that moment, and most likely, he's doing it in front of other people trying to get some kind of laugh, trying to get attention. I want you to stop all of that by remaining calm, like we talked about. Number one, remain completely calm about it, and don't laugh it off. Number two, ask him a question. I, I, and I'm... This is the question: Did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to hurt me? Make him question the purpose of why he's asking that. Did you say that because you thought it was funny? Did you say that to get a laugh? You can call this kind of behavior out very quickly by asking these questions of intent, like we talked about earlier in the episode. If that doesn't feel comfortable to you, Carol, you can always ask him to repeat that. So if he were to say something like, "You know what? That's not, not too bad for an old lady," I, um... He might not have said that in a way to be hurtful, but it's, man, it certainly can feel that way. And if you ask him to repeat it, say, "Say that again for me. I need you to say that again." All right? Man, he, he, he might feel that and go, "Oof, I can tell that's..." He's not gonna wanna say that again. Or if you've asked, "I need you to say that again slower for me." That, that means you're asking him to say, "Not bad for an old lady." He's probably never going to say that because it's gonna expose him. It's gonna put him too far out on a ledge. People don't like to feel like they're exposed in their bad behavior. That's what repeating, asking them to repeat it does. That's what asking them these questions of intent does. When they, um, when they go off on a ledge, they feel like, "Oh, everybody's listening to me. Everybody can tell." And when they feel that way, they hide. They hide because they know at that point they've gone too far. They've gone too far, Carol. So when that happens, don't smile, don't laugh it off, don't wave it off, don't try and be, uh, funny with it. I want you to just calmly ask the question, "Did you say that to embarrass me?" And just let that rest. Give it that silence. Don't feel like you have to rush. Don't let it bother you. Don't let it get you upset, 'cause that's what he wants. To be able to say, "Did you, did you say that to... Because you thought it was funny?" And just ho- just let that hover right there in the air and see how he responds. Most likely, the result you're going to get, Carol, is he's not going to do that again. And at the end of the day, what you have demonstrated and shown him without even saying it is that you're the type of person that can stand your ground. You're the type

8. 13:38 – 22:46

   What belittling really is: hierarchy grabs, indirect slights, and decoding intent

   1. JFJefferson Fisher13:38

      of person that is not going to be pushed over, all right? When somebody makes a belittling comment to you, how do you react? What I am hoping is that by the end of this episode, that answer changes, or at least you see a little bit more into the below the surface of what's happening between you and the person who's making that comment. The belittling comment, like I said at the beginning, is not about you. It's about them. Number one, when somebody gives you a belittling comment, meaning something that's mean, rude, meant to make you feel little, to be little, it is under no uncertain terms a grasp at maintaining hierarchy. In other words, it's an assertion of dominance. The word belittle, right? To, to make you feel small is to then make themselves feel big. And, uh, in process of that, and as a result of that, you have this levels, this system of here they are now. They've created a hierarchy in which they're on top and you are below. That's how you feel with a bully, right? Think of grade school, think of junior high, high school, wherever it is. Maybe in work, even now as an adult. You have somebody who's a bully personality. Where do they picture themselves in that hierarchy? Bullies never think that they're lower than you. They think they're above everybody. "Give me your lunch money. I have this spot. This is mine. That's mine now. I am the one on top of the hierarchy. You must all now serve me." Belittling comments are a grab for hierarchy. So that's why often when people feel the most insecure, they have to reach for outside things, right? To have that inner, that inner sense of, uh, that ability to live with themselves because they don't have that inner, inner security, so they have to have that outer grab for it. And where we hear that a lot of the times is that reach for hierarchy and dominance and saying mean things to make you feel less. Now, let me put this in a, a different view. Belittling comments are not always ones that are direct. Have you ever had somebody give you a belittling comment that you realized maybe a few minutes or an hour later of like, "I don't think that was a compliment. You know what? I don't, I don't think they really meant that. I think that was a slight." Belittling comments are not always direct. They can very much be indirect, and still it is a grab for hierarchy. So number one, what I want you to realize when somebody's giving you that kind of comment on the offensive is see it for what it is, and it is a grab for hierarchy. Number two, the best way to deal with that grab for hierarchy is to not take it personal by decoding the intent. Decoding the intent. In other words, rather than trying to see it in this glossy magazine style form, understand that there's hieroglyphics to it. In other words, there's this secret language that they're not giving you. So when somebody's saying something ugly, the best way to, to decode it is to use questions that look for the intent of what they're saying. I teach that the best way you can do this, and I have this all throughout my book, um, The Next Conversation, is that you use questions rather than responses when somebody's giving you something belittling. Not only because you're trying to get to the intent, but because you're trying to get them to see the intent. So let's assume you said something ugly to me right now. Go ahead, think of something ugly. Oh, that hurt my feelings. I'm kidding. If you had said something ugly to me and my question to you after giving you a pause was, "Did you mean to hurt my feelings?" What does that do? What does that do? Immediately gets to the, the intent, the purpose, the motive. That's what you're looking for. If you said something mean to me and I went, " [scoffs] Excuse me, me? Let me, let me tell you something about you," and just send it right back to you and now I'm having that, that grab for hierarchy. "Oh, you think you're this? I, I don't know..." If you know who you're talking to, maybe I need to remind you who I am, and you try to bow up, you try to get bigger. What is that? That is hierarchy grab. That is dominance. That is, "I am the king of the mountain here. I'm the, the superior one." And that almost always goes south, and you never get the true motive. Instead, you're the one who has to live with that and have to now, um, live with that regret and the wonder of what could have been had you not reacted so violently to it. And I don't mean physically, I mean with your, with your words when you send it right back to them. But if I were to say, "Did you mean for that to offend me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? Did you say that so that I would get uncomfortable?" You hear me asking a question and trying to get to the intent? Shuts, shuts it all down and now puts it all back on you, the person who said the mean thing. They go, "Oh, I don't, I don't know." Maybe the spotlight is now back on you. Maybe it feels a little awkward. Maybe it all of a sudden just doesn't feel fun anymore because now you're going, "This is not what I thought this person would say." When you decode the intent, what it does is help you realize that it has nothing to do with you. They're just in a bad mood. Maybe they're feeling insecure, or maybe they're having, um... feeling like their job is insignificant, or maybe they're jealous in things that have nothing to do with you whatsoever. And by looking to the intent, it is now you naturally go up in the hierarchy without doing anything whatsoever. That is control. That is the genuine kind of authentic power of using your words to stand your ground. In other words, it naturally does that of a progression in the communication, not by trying to assert it. You feel the difference? So when you ask the question, "Did you mean... Did you mean for that to upset me? Did you mean... Did you intend? Was the purpose of you saying that to do X, Y, and Z?" Whenever you're able to ask those questions, you decode the intent for a better conversation. And for sure, if not a better conversation, to stand your ground and feel more confident and feel more controlled. And that right there is a lot to be proud of. [upbeat music] Before we keep going, I want to take a second to tell you about Masa Chips. Yes, you heard me right, chips. You might go, "Jefferson's doing chips?" Yeah, they're that good. When I got in touch with Masa Chips a few months ago, and they sent me a few, uh, samples, right? And I had them out on the, the counter, the kitchen counter, and I opened a pack and I started eating them. I'm like, "Oh, these are really good." I had to go out to the studio and go grab some stuff. I came back, it wasn't more than two minutes, and I kid you not, the bag was gone. It was empty. My kids and my wife destroyed them. They started opening up all these other flavors and were like, "These are so good. Where did you get these?" Masa Chips have totally destroyed, uh, regular tortilla chips for me. What makes them so awesome is that they are made with 100% grass-fed beef tallow, and it tastes like an actual... like what a chip's supposed to taste like. They're not made with cheap seed oils. They don't make anything greasy. They're delicious, and they have lots of different flavors that are awesome. So we're a big fan of Masa Chips at my house, and my kids always ask, [chuckles] "When are you getting more chips?" So we're a big fan, and we get lots of, uh, these Masa Chips. So trust me, trust me, if you want a snack that not only makes you feel good but also tastes good for a chip, and we all know how you need that crunchy snack, go to Masa Chips. 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9. 22:46 – 26:57

   Projection and insecurity: why their comment isn’t about you + what if they say ‘yes’

   1. JFJefferson Fisher22:46

      of insecurity. Almost always somebody is projecting how they feel onto you. So not only are you looking for intent, part of that is you're starting to look at, "Oh, this is how they feel about themselves." If they're judgmental about what you're wearing or how you are looking, you can be rest assured they are all the more critical and insecure about how they look, and they would much rather call attention to you than to them. If somebody is putting down your intelligence in some way, one, that's a sign of somebody not being intelligent. That's somebody who's being emotionally immature, who lacks that emotional intell-intelligence. And so to make it up, they have to poke fun at your intelligence or your significance or how much you're worth in your job and who's more important. I feel like a lot of struggles between married couples, between, um, relationships and friendships and at work especially, it is a dominance of whose job is more important. Whose job is more important? And that breeds a lot of insecurity between both people, and so you'll hear comments where somebody's trying to put down your job. "All right, I mean, you just have to go to that meeting. I mean, but that's not even that..." And they'll put it down because there's an actual insecurity. Of how they're feeling in that moment, of whether or not they even matter, or do they even feel authentic to themselves? And i- it is, it is natural and normal, and we are all capable of giving belittling comments. I don't want you to feel like belittling comments just come from these unknown... It, it al- it always comes from them. We have them, too, all right? We have them, too. And why? Because we know deep down, if we have to go through the layers and are actually honest with ourselves, it's because deep down we have a insecurity that we're masking, too. So as part of decoding the intent, understand that it is simply a projection of how they're feeling, and that helps inform you, that helps inform you of what's happening in that moment, and that is, it, it is a grab for dominance. And your best move is to not retaliate, not respond, and use a question that goes to the intent that's going to give you the level of consciousness that you did not have before and see that, oh, this is simply a projection, and now I'm looking at the intent. This is a projection of how they're feeling, and now we're at the full circle is it's not about you, it's about them. All right? So number one, understand it's a power grab. It's an assertion of dominance and hierarchy. Number two, what you want to do is use intent, questions of intent to decode what's happening, and it takes away that personal feeling and effect from you. And number three, it is simply a projection of their own insecurity, which helps inform you where you truly stand. And if you are listening to this podcast and go, "You know what? The next time I get a belittling comment, I'm not gonna respond. I'm gonna stay still. I'm gonna control myself. I'm gonna stay regulated. I'm gonna use a question of intent to find out what they really mean." And here you might be asking, "Well, Jefferson, what if they say yes? If I say, 'D- did you mean for, to, to embarrass me?' and they say yes?" Your response is, "Good to know," and act like it doesn't bother you at all, because it shouldn't. It shouldn't. It's going to be let that weight be carried with them. They're the ones that are gonna have to live with that, that yes, and deal with those emotions that they have to carry. Eventually, they're gonna have to process that sometime in their life. Don't put that... Don't, don't you carry that. Most of the time people say no. They adjust. They walk it back. They feel awkward. They apologize. They feel sheepish. That right there naturally adjusts the control in the right way.

10. 26:57 – 30:37

    Role-play with host: weight/singlehood digs, and noticing our own belittling habits

    1. SPSpeaker26:57

       How do you handle somebody that kinda belittles you? They're, like, picking on your weight, or they're-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher27:04

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker27:04

       ... constantly like, "Are you still single?"

    4. JFJefferson Fisher27:07

       Yeah. [laughs]

    5. SPSpeaker27:07

       Like, you know, like, people, like, especially-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher27:09

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker27:09

       ... people that you're close with have a way of belittling you.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher27:12

       Right.

    9. SPSpeaker27:12

       What, what, what do you do in those situations?

    10. JFJefferson Fisher27:15

        When somebody's belittling you or giving you a insult and that hurtful comment, you make them repeat it, because what they're hoping to do in that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you, and instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So when you ask them to repeat what they said, they're, you're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they're expecting from your reaction. They're not getting that, that response time from you. Instead, you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun. And so when you ask them to repeat it and just say, "I need you to say that again,"-

    11. SPSpeaker27:52

        I'm thinking of-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher27:52

        Oh, you're very-

    13. SPSpeaker27:52

        ... of, like, using this-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher27:54

        Yeah

    15. SPSpeaker27:54

        ... with a couple people in my life. [laughs]

    16. JFJefferson Fisher27:56

        Yeah. It-

    17. SPSpeaker27:57

        We need to role play this.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher27:59

        Sure.

    19. SPSpeaker28:00

        Um, I'm trying to think of a scenario.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher28:01

        Like you just said right there, um, you're still single.

    21. SPSpeaker28:05

        I need you to repeat that.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher28:06

        Yeah. You... So-

    23. SPSpeaker28:07

        [laughs]

    24. JFJefferson Fisher28:08

        Exactly, and I'm not gonna wanna say that again because now that spotlight is on me. And then also what you lead up with that is you ask questions of intent. For example, "Did you say that to hurt me?" And now it's this mirror that they feel like, "Why did, why did I say that? Oh, okay," and then they start to backtrack. Then you don't have to say anything. But if often I can just repeat what they said, so if y- uh, somebody says to you, uh, "Oh, so you're still single?" "I need you to say that again," most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. "I'm still single. That's what you asked me?" And all of a sudden they realize this isn't fun. They're not gonna ask that kinda thing again.

    25. SPSpeaker28:58

        Wow.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher28:59

        Or you just ask that question of, "Did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me?" "Oh, no, no, no, no, I didn't say that. I, what, what, what I meant was..." And all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're gonna stand your ground.

    27. SPSpeaker29:11

        Wow. This is, like, very eye-opening because I can see both situations where I need to use it, and I can see situations where I probably say things, and I'm thinking particularly to my adult kids, that probably feels belittling. I, I can think about, like, our, our daughter out in Los Angeles, and every time I see her, she's wearing a piece of clothing that I [laughs] don't recognize. And so I think to myself, and oftentimes I will say, "Is that new?" And I'm thinking in my mind, "Where, wh- where, where do you get the money for this?" You know-

    28. JFJefferson Fisher29:52

        Mm-hmm

    29. SPSpeaker29:52

        ... like that kinda thing. And then she's literally like, "Yeah, I thrifted it." And there's this little tiff thing, but if she were to say to me-

    30. JFJefferson Fisher29:58

        If she was to ask you a question-
11. 30:37 – 32:45

    Handling disrespect in general: strategic silence + ‘below my standard’ boundary

    1. JFJefferson Fisher30:37

       A lot of silence. So often, if you just wait 10 seconds, you're gonna add distance between what they said and how you're going to respond, and that makes it very clear. 'Cause what they're wanting when somebody's disrespectful is, same way with belittling, they're wanting a reaction. They're saying this to get something out of you. 'Cause in that moment they're feeling something, whether it's a fear, an insecurity, whatever it is, you're understanding you're not gonna, you're not going to deliver on that same plane that they are. You're not gonna be on that same level. So if somebody says something disrespectful, you give enough silence to make sure that it's a little awkward, and then you're going to say something to the effect of, "That's below my standard for a response." And then all of a sudden they feel like the, the dynamic has been flipped. That's below my standard of respect. Something as simple as that, all of a sudden you're now making it clear that what you just said was beneath me, and I don't respond to things that are beneath me in that way. And so now you're taking control of it. Now you're leaning into it. What they thought was meant as a disrespect, they're now understanding that they're in the wrong place.

    2. SPSpeaker31:55

       What do you do... I, I, I was with somebody yesterday who had just visited their mother, and I said to her, you know, like, "How did it go?" And she said, "Well, it was fine, but it's my mother." And the thing that drives me crazy is she is extremely disrespectful-

    3. JFJefferson Fisher32:13

       Mm. Mm

    4. SPSpeaker32:14

       ... to anybody that is waiting on us at a restaurant, like so much so that the owner came over and said something to her. What do you, is there a way to respond when someone else is throwing a fit or is being disrespectful? You know what I mean? Like, somebody's getting testy at the airport or, and they're, they're with you. It's not a complete stranger. Is there something that you can say to somebody in that situation?

12. 32:45 – 34:24

    When someone with you is rude to others: don’t join in, then set a firm boundary

    1. JFJefferson Fisher32:45

       Depends h- how your relationship is with that person. I would advise that whoever they're disrespecting, you don't join in it, and you make it clear that that is not your behavior. So you're gonna be person that is kind to this person. So I've had it before where my grandfather came with me to Walmart. It was a terrible time. Uh, and [laughs] he was, he was in a bad mood, and he was crotchety to everybody we talked to. But I was the one that was, "Thank you so much for helping us. I appreciate it. Thank you so much," being overly, "Hey, I understand. Thank you," making that eye contact with this other person of this other person's not having a good time. And then you have that conversation... I had to have that conversation with my grandfather, and I-

    2. SPSpeaker33:26

       How did you do that?

    3. JFJefferson Fisher33:27

       I had to put a boundary, uh, a very firm boundary of if this is the way you're gonna talk to people, I can't come with you. If you don't change the tone in which you're talking to people, Pop, I can- I can't, I can't come. And so it very was, uh, "What, what, what am I saying?" I- "You're not being s- respectful to people." "Yes, I am." "I would not be telling you this if you had been respectful to people." And, and it's this having this, this conversation where they need to, i- it's the people you love, and often you have to be their, their biggest mirror of protecting them also for how other people see them. And so I love my grandfather. I want other people to love him, and that means I also have to make sure that I need to put, I need to prepare him in a loving way of being very direct of this is how you're talking to people.

    4. SPSpeaker34:18

       Has he changed?

    5. JFJefferson Fisher34:19

       He has.

    6. SPSpeaker34:20

       Wow.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher34:20

       We also just don't go to Walmart. So [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker34:24

       [laughs]

    9. JFJefferson Fisher34:24

       Oh, interesting.

13. 34:24 – 40:53

    Nonverbal trust and presence (guest segment): face-touching, leaning away, crossed arms

    1. SPSpeaker34:24

       So you can actually calm yourself down by, by rubbing this or even rubbing the sides of your arms. It reminds us of when we were babies and our, our parents rubbed us to try to calm us down. So it's a very, um, sensitive part of our body for self-soothing as well as protective gesture. Here's the problem. So Cornell did a, a massive research experiment looking at untrustworthiness or dis- mistrust behaviors. They asked people, "When do you most mistrust others?" And they cataloged all these different cues, and there are four cues that signal others to not trust you. Again, these aren't actual signals of mistrust. They are just socially we have been conditioned to think, uh-oh, is someone not telling us the truth? The first one is touching the face. So we have to be very careful. The neck is not one, but it can very easily go up into a face touch, where we're rubbing our face, we're touching the sides of our eyes, we're biting our fingernails. We associate self-touch of the face with anxiety, nervousness, and deception. So I always tell my students, "Do not touch your face. Do not touch your face."

    2. JFJefferson Fisher35:27

       I say the same exact thing in depositions for clients I'm preparing.

    3. SPSpeaker35:31

       Oh, yes.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher35:31

       If they start to, about to answer a question and they start touching their face, I'm like-

    5. SPSpeaker35:34

       Oh

    6. JFJefferson Fisher35:35

       ... "Honey, that's not-"

    7. SPSpeaker35:37

       No.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher35:37

       "Don't."

    9. SPSpeaker35:38

       No.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher35:38

        "Don't."

    11. SPSpeaker35:38

        Don't, don't do it.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher35:39

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker35:39

        So, like, do not touch your face. That's the first thing. The second thing that they found was a lean away, which is a, called a distancing behavior.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher35:47

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SPSpeaker35:47

        And this is, makes a lot of sense from a, from a psychological perspective, which is if we don't like something, we wanna get away from it.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher35:54

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker35:54

        And so we will take a step back. We lean back. We even will tilt our head over to the side. I've noticed, um, we do a lot of, like, mock depositions and code them for deception behaviors, that when I bring up a topic someone doesn't like, they will literally, like, "Oh, let me think," and they pull their head back and away. It's a s- it's a, it's, without even realizing, it's a subconscious way of trying to get away from that question they don't like or that information. You tell someone bad news, they're like, "No."

    18. JFJefferson Fisher36:21

        Right.

    19. SPSpeaker36:21

        And they lean all the way back or they step away. So if you lean back, tilt back, scoot back, lean away, it is signaling that you don't like something, or perhaps that was a topic that you are being deceptive about. This is why it's really important to understand space, your, how you're interacting in space. That, the, the fancy word for that is proxemics I always say claim your space

    20. JFJefferson Fisher36:41

        Mm-hmm

    21. SPSpeaker36:42

        So, like I stand for my podcast because it helps me move less. I also make sure that when I'm on stage, I'm lateral moving or I'm forward moving. The only time I ever move back on stage is when I'm showing a video, because then I want people to not pay attention to me. I want them to pay attention to the video.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher36:58

        Right.

    23. SPSpeaker36:58

        So thinking very carefully about your world blocking is actually important. The third thing that Cornell found was any kind of crossed arms. Now, crossed arms is such a hard one because it is comfortable, and I know it feels so comfortable to cross our arms. It makes us feel warm and cozy. It makes us feel protected. But study after study after study after study finds that when we see someone in any situation with closed arms, it makes them look more closed-minded and sometimes deceptive. One research study really changed my mind on this. I, I always knew that it gave a bad impression, but actually it changes your own thinking. They gave people creative tasks in open body language or closed body language, and they found that when people had their arms crossed, they were less creative. They were less open-minded. In other words, there's sort of a cycle between our body and our mind that if we are blocking ourselves, our mind even kind of shuts down a little bit as well. And so if you can get out of the habit of crossing your arms when you're in interpersonal situations, I don't care what you do when you're by yourself, but especially in those first impression, those pitches, their presentations-

    24. JFJefferson Fisher38:07

        Mm-hmm

    25. SPSpeaker38:07

        ... do not cross your arms. There's one exception to this: if you want to look closed off. So there are times in negotiations, this is only in certain kinds of professions, where you want your body to negotiate for you. Something that I teach my sales professionals and my negotiators is you don't always have to verbally negotiate with someone. You can non-verbally negotiate with them so they negotiate with themselves. In other words, if someone gives you a number or a framing or a piece of information that you don't like, you can non-verbally signal, "I don't like that," with a crossed arms and a lean back, and then just wait.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher38:43

        Mm.

    27. SPSpeaker38:43

        Just wait, 'cause you just signaled to them without saying a word, "I don't like that." Give it three or four seconds of a pause and see if they negotiate with themselves. So you can also signal these things to speak for you. That's the one exception I have for crossed arms.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher38:58

        What do you, what do you, what's your take on crossed legs?

    29. SPSpeaker39:02

        I don't mind them.

    30. JFJefferson Fisher39:03

        Okay.
14. 40:53 – 46:00

    Courtroom and stage presence: comfort cues, leaning in for emphasis, and ethical intent

    1. JFJefferson Fisher40:53

       because I have not been. You can go to fromourplace.com/jefferson, and use the code Jefferson for 10% off site-wide. With a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and free returns, there's zero risk. Only better cooking. And now, back to the episode. Uh, that kind of resonates with me on, in early parts of trials that I've had, and then when I was, uh, teaching other younger associates on trials, I would make them get to the courtroom early. Typically, the day before, I'd ask the court, uh, coordinator to let us in, and just make them sit in the chairs just to get a feel for, I want you to feel like this is not your first time here. Like, your whole-

    2. SPSpeaker41:38

       Mm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher41:38

       ... body position. And so that means if you're gonna lean back, cross your legs, relax your arms a little bit like you're listening, rather than the attorneys that are... They're like this, hands on the paper, and they're reading their next question. Like, the jury needs to see that you are 100% comfortable. Same thing with-

    4. SPSpeaker41:55

       Yeah

    5. JFJefferson Fisher41:55

       ... when you're giving all your presentations on the stage. A person who feels the most comfortable makes the other person the most comfortable.

    6. SPSpeaker42:01

       Yes. And by the way, the opposite of a lean back is a lean in-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher42:06

       Mm-hmm

    8. SPSpeaker42:06

       ... and leaning in should be used purposefully. So I love neutral, like I... As you said, like, you're kind of... Lawyers that are, like, sitting up reading their paper is great. This makes you look attentive. A lean in is a cue that shows you wanna get closer-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher42:19

       Right

    10. SPSpeaker42:19

        ... and also the other person might wanna l- lean in as well. And so, for example, even on this podcast, if I'm saying something that I really believe in, I might use a lean as a way to bold or emphasize what I'm saying. If someone else says something that I really agree with, I might lean in to show I am emphasizing or bolding what you are saying. Um, and on stage especially, I have a lot of stage presenters who take my classes, and I tell them, "You wanna lean in as a way to outline your content for the audience." It lowers cognitive load if you can show your audience what your most important points are with your body. We do this with our lean, so we can lean into the stage. Like, for example, if I'm talking on stage and I'm like, "This is the most-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher43:01

        Yeah

    12. SPSpeaker43:01

        ... important point." You're immediately cued in to, ah, pay attention.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher43:05

        Right.

    14. SPSpeaker43:05

        Put our pens down and watch. Um, same thing with an eyebrow raise. They found research looked at eyebrow raises, and across cultures we recognize an eyebrow raise, not a lid raise, but an eyebrow raise, as a universal sign of curiosity. You know, our eyebrows are trying to get up out of the way so we can see more. When I raise my eyebrows, it cues you to look at my face-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher43:25

        Mm-hmm

    16. SPSpeaker43:25

        ... as if I'm about to say something really interesting, even if I'm not. [laughs]

    17. JFJefferson Fisher43:29

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker43:29

        And so it... You can use, you can use cues to help your listeners. And by the way, there is a very fine line, I think, between being purposeful with your cues and being manipulative with your cues, and that is the hardest thing in my line of work. And I don't know if you have this as well, as you teach communication, which is your intention has to be good.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher43:50

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker43:50

        Your intention has to be pure. When I'm on stage, my entire goal is to make it as easy and as fun to listen to me as possible. So I'm trying to add these cues in to outline this is interesting, this is difficult, now watch the video, we're here on this, we're talking about three different points, here are the three, so that you are as a l- I- I am taking all that load for you. Same thing with warmth and competence. I don't want you to showcase warmth cues if you don't actually like someone.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher44:17

        We talk about that a lot here of I can give you any kind of phrase. I can teach you how to disarm. I can teach you to, to disu- uh, diffuse. I can teach you to diffuse. But if, if your intent is in the bad, in a bad spot, if you're not in a good state of mind, it's all for naught. That's, that's the, that's the, uh, the dark arts, as I call it.

    22. SPSpeaker44:41

        And, and, and there's-

    23. JFJefferson Fisher44:42

        You don't, you don't wanna be doing that

    24. SPSpeaker44:43

        ... can, can I give one study on why, why this is true?

    25. JFJefferson Fisher44:45

        Let's hear it. Yes.

    26. SPSpeaker44:46

        So I can teach you all the cues in the world, but if you have ill intention, they're gonna leak.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher44:50

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SPSpeaker44:51

        And the way I know this is they took a very disgusting... They did a very disgusting study where they had people come into their lab and they had them put on sweatsuits, which catches their sweat, and they had them run on a treadmill, so get really sweaty in these sweatsuits. The second group put on sweatsuits and skydived for the first time, so, like, terror sweat.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher45:09

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SPSpeaker45:09

        They took these sweat samples and they had unsuspecting participants smell each of these samples, and they had no idea what they were smelling. They had no idea they were sm- literally smelling armpits. But what they found was when people smelled the skydiving sweat, the fear sweat, their own amygdala lit up. They actually caught the fear. Whereas when they smelled the treadmill sweat, nothing happened.
15. 46:00 – 49:40

    Communicating worth and boundaries: ‘I have no interest in returning what you just gave’

    1. SPSpeaker46:00

       How do you communicate your worth when someone is being offensive or adding little digs underneath their language? Maybe they're trying to get a message across, um, and they're frustrated, so they're saying a few things that would be offensive to you potentially or maybe hurt you or maybe kind of put you beneath.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher46:21

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker46:22

       How do you create a boundary consciously with them so that they don't keep doing that in the future, where it's letting them know, "Hey, this, this type of communication doesn't really work for me. It's not okay," and, and owning your worth-

    4. JFJefferson Fisher46:36

       Yeah

    5. SPSpeaker46:36

       ... while also being able to throw it away at the same time and not let it get to you? Like, how do you navigate that so that that, that doesn't continue to happen in friendships or-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher46:47

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker46:48

       ... in relationships or in career-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher46:50

       Right

    9. SPSpeaker46:50

       ... where that doesn't continue? Like, I understand we can do it once or twice-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher46:54

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker46:54

        ... or three times, but if someone's always doing that to us-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher46:57

        Right

    13. SPSpeaker46:58

        ... how do we create, create that boundary and, and consciously communicate our worth?

    14. JFJefferson Fisher47:02

        Depending on the context about who that person is, you know, who, who they are in your life. So some people you just can't get away from, I mean, or family members, what have you. But it's a balance of your value and then what, what we're gonna just call as what I'm interested in. So somebody were gonna say something that's offensive in a way and they're, they are pushing me, it's a much more powerful move, a very dominant, assertive move to say, "I'm not interested in returning what you just gave."

    15. SPSpeaker47:34

        Oh, wow. That's a, that's a power move.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher47:36

        Yeah. Oh, yeah. And see, it's... It...

    17. SPSpeaker47:38

        So if I say, "Jefferson, you know, it was pretty idiotic what you did the other day to me, and I, I just didn't... You know."

    18. JFJefferson Fisher47:47

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker47:47

        "You just looked like an idiot, but I... What I really wanna do is, is I want... Moving forward I want us to go and do this thing instead."

    20. JFJefferson Fisher47:53

        Right.

    21. SPSpeaker47:53

        Or whatever. I'm just saying something.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher47:54

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you.

    23. SPSpeaker47:55

        How would you respond to something like, like that?

    24. JFJefferson Fisher47:59

        So if somebody... Well, what you kinda did was you, you, like, hit it into something else that they did. So what I f- I would first do is call that out.

    25. SPSpeaker48:11

        Uh-huh.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher48:11

        Say, "Now, well, I, well, I hear two points."

    27. SPSpeaker48:14

        [laughs] Yeah.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher48:15

        Yeah. And so I'm like, "I'm not gonna skip that," so I'll say-

    29. SPSpeaker48:17

        Okay. So you wanna, you wanna just throw the trash away right away.

    30. JFJefferson Fisher48:19

        You got it. Well-
16. 49:40 – 1:08:24

    Standing up for yourself toolkit: know your worth, drop disclaimers, stop ‘no because’

    1. JFJefferson Fisher49:40

       ... so let's, let's skip the milk and talk about something else. The first thing to know about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it. Because number one, not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It is a know your worth mentality, and we're gonna talk exactly where you need to go in your mind leading up to these conversations. Number two, get rid of the verbal disclaimers. These are little statements you say before you say what you need to say. Like, "Hey, I'm, I'm sorry, but I, I, I just feel like maybe..." We're gonna talk about getting rid of those and how to do it. Number three, stop justifying the nos. Stop having to feel like you need to explain yourself on and on just because you turn somebody down. When you do that, it takes away slowly from your self-confidence, and I don't wanna see that. Now, maybe nobody's told you this, but just because somebody has said something does not mean that it requires a response from you. Just because they threw a pitch doesn't mean you have to swing. You can just let it go by. There's this idea in our head that because somebody gave us an opinion, we have to give an opinion back. That's just not true. When it comes to standing up for yourself, it is often the person that is not worth your time that you don't need to give attention to. And often that's the exact opposite of what we do. We find ourselves trying to justify and explain to people that do not matter in our life, the people that l- that rank low in our priority list, but yet we, we feel like we have to prove something to them every single time that we talk. Eliminate that concern. When people play chess, it's expected that you're gonna take a pawn. Nobody freaks out about it. Nobody loses their mind when somebody takes a pawn, because they know the value is not the pawn. They can take a rook. Okay, they wanna take a queen. That's different. Understand that there's gonna be lots of different conflicts in your, in your life, lots of different conversations. They are not all the same. The, the feeling you get by talking with certain people, those friendships, uh, where they rank in relationship to you, they're not all the same. So what I want you to understand is stop attending every argument that you're invited to. Just because somebody gave an opinion and said something to you, you have the choice of just letting it go, saying, "That does not re- require any response from me. That is not worth my time." That's why I say it's a know your worth mentality. Before you stand up for yourself and feel like you have to say something, ask the question, "Is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Is this somebody that actually needs part of my energy?" Because there is a strength and a wisdom in conserving your energy, in protecting your peace. So the next time that happens, I want you to go through that filter and ask yourself, "Is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Because I, I know my worth." And please understand that goes for anything that they say. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean we're in the business of picking up trash. Let me say that again. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. You can politely tell them where it should go, and it's not gonna be on you. So understand that part of protecting your peace is understanding, "I know what they're saying is not worth my time. I'm gonna take it and set it aside." Personally, what I do in my, my own life is I have a wastebasket. All right? I have a trash, um, bag right next to me in my mind, and if somebody says something I don't like, rather than, than me feeling like I have to throw it back to them and I have to pick up that trash, that gross, nasty thing that they said and give it right back to them, I just take it and move it over and put it in the trash. You can say like, uh, at a computer or a laptop. You just get it, you drag it over, and you put it in, in the recycling bin, and then you delete it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to carry it. So understand, just because they throw out garbage at you does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. When you have to advocate for yourself, part of that mindset is knowing how to go into it. Too often, there is a hesitancy to say what you need to say. We treat it like it's a, I don't know, what do they have? Like, the cold plunge or, uh, a, a pool that's filled with cold water. If you tiptoe into it, it's much worse. When you don't say what you need to say right out of the gate, and instead you slowly walk into it with these little disclaimers, what I call them. This sounds like, "Hey, um, you know, I've just been... I, I, I just feel like I need to, uh, say this, I guess. It's... And maybe I'm talking out of pocket here, but..." You ever heard that? You ever said that before, where you say, "Uh, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm, I'm sorry, but, but maybe, you know, I, I, I'm just feeling more like..." You're trying to hesitate saying what you need to say. Like, you wanna smooth it over. You wanna hedge to make sure nobody feels like you're being too direct with it. But when it comes to asserting yourself, when it comes to stating your needs, nobody's gonna do it for you. Remember, you're the one that has to be bold and out in the open with it. So, uh, think of it as that cold swimming pool. If you walk right into it, it's going to not feel great. It's not going to look smooth. It's not going to feel smooth. You either have two choices. You don't say it at all, or you jump right in. When you see people doing that cold plunge, they don't walk right into it. They don't slowly go into it. They put their whole body into it. So I want you to get used to that idea of I'm gonna put my whole body into this thing. If I have something to say, I'm going to say it. I'm not gonna feel like I have to apologize for it. I'm not gonna feel like I have to be hesitant and hedged the whole time. If it is something that is on your heart, and it is something that is truly asserting your needs in your life, you have one chance, one life, and this is it right here for you to be able to state your peace, assert your needs, and say what you need to say. Now, another part of this is often when it comes to standing up for yourself, it happens in moments where you need to say no to something. You need to turn something down. Maybe somebody's invited you to something, you got offered something, and you need to say no, but you don't know how to say it, and you're just not sure you can advocate that you need to say no. Now, we're gonna talk later in th- this podcast about how to say no to certain things, how to decline something and still be respectful, uh, how to disagree and still be respectful about it in those little bitty specific scenarios. Here, this is the point I'm making, of that there are times when you have to say something and they need to hear you say no. And there's a difference between saying no because, after the end of it, using that word because to justify it, and just saying no. For example, let's say you ask me a question and I just said, "No. No." Versus, "No, uh, because, you know, I have that thing that we talked about and, you know, I, I gotta make sure that I take care of this, and it's just been really busy lately, and I've just been so stressed, you know? And so... Well, I have that other thing, you know?" You see how it's much weaker? All of a sudden, I, I've added three more sentences after the no, and I've slowly watered down the place that I need to assert my needs. If I need to say no to something, I need to say no. So eliminate that habit of always saying no because. It's just no. And if they need to ask other questions, they're free to ask other questions, and you're free to say no again. I want you to feel empowered, right, on this idea of just because they asked me something does not mean I have to give them something. Just because they told me something does not mean I have to have an answer for something. Standing up for yourself means that you are in complete peace with who you are and your presence in the conversation, and you know your worth wherever you are in that conversation, or if there should be a conversation at all. So when you need to say no to something, step into that. Don't go with these little verbal disclaimers. You say no to it. You don't say because and add on a verbal, um... It's like the opposite of a verbal disclaimer. You add in everything afterwards. "No, because I'm just feeling X, Y, and Z." You don't need that. The word is no, period. What lots of people like to say and what I support is no is a complete sentence.

    2. SPSpeaker58:29

       How can people get better at appearing and becoming confident during conversations?

    3. JFJefferson Fisher58:37

       So rule two of my book is say it with confidence. And the way that I like to implement this into my clients and to people that follow my content is you have to find an assertive voice. People feel like confidence is something they need to have before they have the conversation. Like, I'm working up the confidence to say this. That's wrong. It's, it's, it's the opposite. Confidence is the outcome. Confidence is w- is what you get after you do the assertive thing. So I teach confidence is as assertive does. So when you can use your assertive voice, that is what is going to give you the pieces of confidence that will continue to just be in a loop. The more assertive things you say, the more confident you feel. The more confident you feel, the easier it is to be assertive. And it is a sense that is within you of I know where I am. So once you feel more in control, you automatically sound and feel more confident. A quick little trick that I use, aside from all the ways we could talk about assertive voice, is just using the word confident. Just using the word confident naturally makes you appear and sound and feel more confident. Like, if I'm interviewing for you and you ask me a question, I could say... If I, if I said, "No, I, I believe I could really bring some value to this team," versus, "I'm confident I can bring some value to this team," all of a sudden, the other person, um, you're gonna get your notepad and go, "Man, this person sounds confident." And just using that word attributes that quality to you, not only to the other person, but also to yourself, which is incredibly important.

    4. SPSpeaker1:00:18

       I wanna talk about how to get better at speaking in an assertive way. You know, you and I touched on this and covered this in our first conversation, and I catch myself sometimes, like, fluffing up, like, an email. Like, "Hey, hope all is well." But, you know, just instead of just getting to the point, I think you and I talked about this. Because I think sometimes it c- I, my, I guess my conscious is like, "Oh, are they gonna think that I'm not caring or empathetic?" You know, it's... I mean, many people do this. So talk a bit about, like, why that doesn't matter as much and, and, and how to become more assertive.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher1:00:47

       It does matter. It's just, it's not about using more words. It's about using the right words. Where people get bogged down is they feel like if they say more things, they will be more believable, be more liked. It, it, it will reap additional even more benefits. But it's actually just the opposite. If you were to say to me, invite me somewhere, and all of a sudden I start a very long text

    6. JFJefferson Fisher1:01:16

       Like, "Hey, Doug, thank you so much for inviting me. Like, I, just so you know, I- I've just been so busy lately and, you know, I need to go water my cat and feed my house and, and do all these, uh, things [laughs] and I need to, you know, and I've just been so overwhelmed." The more you say, the less believable you sound, the more fluff that you add into it. It's this concept of the more words it takes to tell the truth, the more it sounds like a lie. So when you are responding in emails, let's, for, let's just put it in written correspondence. You're typing, you're texting, whatever. There is the tendency to give more, but nobody wants to read a long paragraph. As soon as you get that paragraph text, you go, "Oh, gosh," and you, and you miss a lot of the key points. Same thing with a long email. There's nothing worse than a long email. All you do is you gave me a chore. That's what you gave me. You didn't give me an email. [laughs] You gave me, you gave me a chore for me to dissect exactly what you're trying to say. The problem we run into is we just use a lot of fluff, use a lot of adverbs. You have a, I have a friend who he almost always starts his sentence with, "So basically," or, "So essentially." That's just fluff. That, that doesn't mean anything. Using words like just, so, essenti- essentially, literally, basically, obviously, clearly. All these things that mean nothing. Like, you don't, you don't need them. You just remove them from your sentences. There's a difference in how it sounds if I were to email you, "Hey, just want to check in," versus, "I wanted to check in." Like, just removing that word just makes it less hesitant, less, uh, like you're not sure of yourself and you don't wanna intrude. It's leaning into your conversation, leaning into your words. So the best rule is always say less. If people have questions, they will ask you. You want to make sure that you are being a well of information, not a waterfall of it.

    7. SPSpeaker1:03:09

       And when it comes to, like, maybe, like, texting with your significant other or somebody that you're dating, I would imagine you have to be careful with how direct you are. Because if somebody's like, "How was your day?" And you're like, "It's great," and you don't say anything else, your perception might be like, "Yeah, I'm just being honest," and that's what it is. How does it differ when you're, like, communicating with somebody that you love?

    8. JFJefferson Fisher1:03:29

       Yeah. Well, I mean, it could be not just people you love, but really anyone. I'm not saying be short. There's a difference between being short and saying less. Being short is the, "It's great. Good. Okay. Cool." Like, typical dad texts. That's what, how-- This is how my dad texts. Like, I could text him all of some cool things that are happening, and I'll just get back, "Cool." You know what I mean? Like, there are ways that it... Yeah. If I were to respond to my wife and just go, "K," like, I might as well have just signed a death warrant. Like, it's just never, it's not gonna do any good. So there is a difference when I say being short versus being concise. And if you want to say, "It's been an awesome day, thank you," versus the... Well, it's a little bit different because in personal relationships, we want to know more. I'd say there's a difference most of the time between men and women of who want to know all the things and how you're feeling about all the things versus us, us guys, bros, if you're gonna text me, our text thread's gonna be pretty short and pretty boring, but that doesn't mean that we're not tight and we're not friends and we're not still great on the same page. It's just, it's very different, I find, most of our, our defaults. But when it comes to personal communication, it is best policy to be direct and be open and be honest rather than beginning with all of the fluff. I don't mean, like, don't, don't tell them how you're feeling. You don't need to... That, that's wonderful. That's necessary. Uh, my biggest thing is, particularly in the workplace, is you wanna be very careful of over-explaining and over-sharing. That's when you can get into trouble.

    9. SPSpeaker1:05:08

       And so when it comes to remaining assertive and having respect for yourself and, and gaining respect from other people, I think what can happen is you send that assertive email or text to a boss, colleague, et cetera, and their response isn't what you thought it would be. And sometimes people end up maybe wanting to give a little bit more so they can, you know, appease that person. How can people maintain assertiveness throughout correspondence to be able to maintain a level of, uh, respect?

    10. JFJefferson Fisher1:05:40

        Yeah. Let's put it in a context. Give me-- Let's g- do a, some type of scenario. Are you-- 'Cause it changes, you know, between if it's a superior, somebody who's a supervisor above you, or somebody who's below you. So what kind of scenario do you want to take?

    11. SPSpeaker1:05:54

        I would say the common thing. Let's just say amongst friends or something.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher1:05:57

        Yeah. And let's, what are we talking about? I want to make sure, like, 'cause if you want to be assertive in that conversation among friends, that's a little bit more, it's a little bit more difficult. Like, there are people who are work friends, like, they're just people that you know but you necessarily wouldn't wanna, you know, go hang out with them after work. But you're, you're cool and you're buddies during the office hours. And there are other people that are genuinely, you know, your people, your tribe, your village.

    13. SPSpeaker1:06:21

        I would say the people that are your tribe, your village, like, you're trying to communicate maybe something that bothers you about that, or you're trying to bring up something and you're assertive about it, and they kind of come back and they're, they get maybe defensive or say you're wrong, and then you're still trying to maintain your, your boundary without caving, essentially.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher1:06:42

        Yeah. So a lot of the times what you can do is you give them the permission to disagree. You're giving them the permission to have another opinion. So if you respond with, "It's okay to disagree," or, "You can disagree with me," like, that's, that's what they need. They're not expecting that, first of all. But when you can use that to your advantage and say, "Yeah, it's, it's cool. You can have a different opinion. It's, I, I'm letting you how, know how I feel. I'm not trying to control how you feel. I'm just telling you what is gonna be right for me." So like my dad would say this whenever I would bring- Let's say there's something that was happening that I didn't like, and he made a decision on something that I couldn't, I couldn't go somewhere. I couldn't, you know, whatever my curfew was, and I was voicing my disapproval. He would always say, "Well, you don't have to like it. You just need to understand it." Like, that was, [laughs] that was the key. And of course, as a kid, I hated that. But now I see the wisdom in it because, uh, he was allowing me the space to connect with him and disagree. To say, "Oh, you don't have to like it. Hey, you don't have to like it, but you just need to understand it." And I think that's where we get lost sometimes is this idea of connecting with the other person. Connection. It's a, it's a circuit. It's like a battery. You have to have the positive and the negative. I can connect with you and still be upset with you. I can still disagree with you. A connection doesn't mean that I approve or I agree and that we're a Hallmark movie. It's... Connection is just as important in the negative and the hard and, and the difficult.

17. 1:08:24 – 1:26:30

    High-stress conflict control: observe vs. absorb, breathe first, and say less

    1. JFJefferson Fisher1:08:24

       When we talk about difficult, high-stress conflict, I'm f- I'm talking about not just the little bitty everyday arguments. I'm talking about something that's on your plate that's coming up right now, and you go, "Jefferson, I don't know how to handle this. I, I don't know what to do. I, I'm afraid I'm gonna shut down. I'm afraid I'm gonna get nervous." I'm gonna tell you exactly what I tell every single one of my clients. You ready? Number one, it is not what you say. It is not anything to do with your mouth. It has everything to do with your nervous system. And the key here is instead of absorbing, you're observing. I'm gonna say it again. Instead of absorbing, you're observing. If you wanna h- handle conflict at a different level of consciousness that you did not know you could handle it, it is going to be the key of not absorbing what they say, but observing what they say. All right? Say it with me. Say it with me wherever you are. It's not absorbing, it's observing. All right? What does that mean? I want you to think... This is just coming to me right now. I want you to think you're in the grocery store, and you have your, your cart with you, and you're going through, and you... Or maybe, maybe you're somebody who likes a bag. You know? You, you, you have a... I'm, I'm all for environmentally friendly stuff, too, though it's hard here in Texas. And you have your cart, and you just start putting things on the shelf or grabbing things off the shelf and putting it in your basket that you, you don't even want. All right? You don't even want. And things just start to come in. You're like, "Yeah, you know what? I'm gonna take their belittling opinion of me. I'm gonna put it in my cart. You know what? I'm gonna take their side eye, put it in my cart. I'm gonna take that, that disrespectful tone and put that in my cart." And you just keep going all the way through aisle by aisle, and then you go to checkout, which is actually a, a very good word for this. Yeah. You, you, you mentally check out, and you know what checks in? Your nervous system, your emotions, and they just flood you in that moment. And, and in, in that point in time, you have absorbed, you have taken on so many things that there's nothing left for you. You're not observing. You're not seeing what's happening. You're just in it. You're just in it, and you are helpless to it. It is no longer you who controls the emotions. The emotions are now controlling you, and there's no telling what you're gonna say. There's no... The... There's no... Nobody can guess what's gonna come out of your mouth or what's going to happen because you're not there. You are checked out. So when I tell my clients, "Hey, when you're in the chair and somebody is... the other attorney's asking you questions, there's gonna be a time where all of a sudden you're tempted to go in it, to, to, to go down the spiral and look inside and look at yourself and feel emotions and get heated because you're gonna start taking things personally. You're going to start absorbing what they're saying." No, no, no, no. If you want to handle this the right way, the proper way in conflict, you have to start observing. What does that mean? That means you're going to approach the conversation at a different level of consciousness that you have before. That means instead of going, "How, how could he say that to me? Oh my gosh, I'm..." And you start holding your breath, and you start getting flustered, and you get nervous, or maybe you tear up. It's because you're not seeing it as, "Huh, I wonder why he's asking me this. I wonder why she's saying that. I wonder where they're going with this." Look for the intent behind the words, the intent behind the words. When you are observing what's happening, in some sense being an attached observer. I've said this before, where you... It's like you are sitting in a movie theater with your popcorn, and you're watching the conversation take place, and that puts you in a different perspective of looking at the person who's talking to you and thinking, "I wonder why that character is saying this. I wonder what the plot is. I wonder what the narrative is. I, I wonder what scene is coming up next." And you see how when you look at it that way, you have full control. You're now the director, the producer, the screenwriter of exactly what happens next, and then it's just action. And you're able to be in the state of mind of, "Hey, I'm observing the conversation." And from there, that gives you a chance to let your body regulate because you're not in it. You are seeing it. You're seeing the conversation. Number two, what I teach every one of my clients is something that's at the forefront of my book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More. And rule number one when I say say it with control, and that is let your breath be the first word that you say. I've been talking a little fast here on this podcast, which is unlike me. I think I, I'll tell you why. I drank too much coffee this morning, too much coffee, admittedly. Usually, I talk pretty slow. All right? Can you hear how just the way I'm talking now And now I'm slowing down just a little bit. Might, in a micro percentage, also slow you down a little bit. Maybe, you know, the neural activity in your brain is starting to slow down just a little bit. Maybe you feel a little bit more relaxed at me speaking a little more slowly. When I put [inhales and exhales] breath before my words, it is making sure that I am regulating myself and even more importantly, I am showing you, I am showing you that I am regulated, that I am in control and what I'm about to say, I've chosen. I've chosen those words. Makes a very big difference. So when I teach my clients, "Hey, don't get wrapped up. Don't try and step on somebody's question. Don't try to interrupt them. Let them get it out and then you observe the question, observe the, the interaction, take a breath, [inhales] and then choose what you want to say." You are in complete control of the pace of any conversation. Nobody can make you say anything you don't want to say and nobody can make you say it at a time you don't want to say it. That choice is yours. That choice is yours. And I cannot tell you how many clients I have seen come to find, accept and then grow in their own power and their own sense of value and worth of, "Wow, I, I get to choose if I say anything and you know what? If I wanna wait 30 seconds before I say something, I can do that." Uh, it's, it is a freeing feeling to know, "Mm, you know, I'm gonna think about this. Let me chew on this question for a second." Just that alone, the ability to say that says, "Oh, no. No. I'm, I'm operating at a different level you don't know about. No, I'm, I'm not who you thought I was. I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to choose my words and I'm going to show you that what I'm about to say is something that I absolutely mean and I'm saying with intention." All right? You, can you feel the difference? Say, what kind of breath are we talking about? I've run through this breath before. It's always good to do it because it's something that is good for me, too. It's a conversational breath and what it does, it's based on a physiological sigh, which is a double... [inhales] Well, that kind of sounded weird. Double inhalation. A double inhalation. So you're breathing, you're inhaling twice. All right? So you ready with me? We're gonna breathe through your nose. Wherever you are, just do it. Don't worry about it. People might look at you. Don't worry. Ready? We're gonna breathe in through your nose about two to three seconds. [inhales] One more at the top [inhales] and then let out through your nose. [exhales] My guess is you're starting to come down a little bit. Maybe your shoulders relaxed a little bit. It's the feeling that mimics a sigh. When you use that kind of breath, and I promise you, you continue to do it while I'm talking right now, you'll see that you get really good at it. You can do it any time. The most crucial part for me is when I teach my clients to do it is before they answer the question. Just take two seconds or one second. What we s- like to say here in the South is just say one Mississippi. In other words, in, in your head you're gonna go, "Mississippi." [chuckles] Like, well, you can use your own name if you have a long name. You know? Just whatever it is, it's, it's to get you in the mindset of taking a beat, a moment. Take that breath and choose what you want to say. It is always going to be better. Now before we keep going, I want to take a second to tell you about Fabric by Gerber Life. You know what gives me a lot of peace of mind? It's knowing that if something was ever gonna happen to me or my family, and I have, I have two kids, my son is seven, my daughter is five, that they're gonna be taken care of in a world that's scary, honestly and I, I travel a lot and I do a lot of things and that's what life insurance is really for. It's making sure that the people and your loved ones in your life and that depend on you also have a peace of mind and it's, it's hard to think about sometimes. It's weird to think about. Uh, but it's, it really is something important. Fabric by Gerber Life is a term life insurance you can get done today. It's made for busy parents like you, like me, all online and on your schedule, right from your couch actually. You can be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required whatsoever. So if you're young and healthy, now's the time to lock in rates. Even if you have coverage through work, it might not be enough, so you wanna make sure that that gets taken care of and it may not follow you if you leave your job. Fabric makes it simple. Flexible, high-quality policies that fit your family and your budget, like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day. And they've partnered with Gerber Life, which is trusted by millions of families for over 50 years. Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. You can apply today in just minutes at meetfabric.com/jefferson. That's meetfabric.com/jefferson. Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in certain states. Price is subject to underwriting and health questions. And now back to the episode. And number three, the third thing that I teach every single one of my clients is to use less words. Say less. Now, in the legal context, if my witness starts to give a very long answer, you know what happens? Every... s- why'd I say it like that? Happens? [chuckles] What happens is I guarantee them that the opposing attorney is now going to slice up that long answer they just gave and turn that into five more questions, 10 more questions. The shorter the answer, the stronger, more clear it is every single time. If I give you an answer that is short and concise, you can do nothing with it. You can do nothing with it. Hear the difference. So I might have a client who I've trained, and we, we practice a lot. And when she might take a breath and answer a question and go, "No," and that's it, that's the only answer. What the, what can the other attorney do? Nothing. They can't do anything with it. They can only go to their next question. But I've also had it, despite my training and teaching, where somebody goes, "You know, I'm not sure. You know, that it was just such a hectic day, and, you know, I forgot to go pick up the eggs, and my, and my dog was sick, and, you know, he just, it, it just, you know, peanut butter messes up his system, and I, I just find that..." And you're going, and I'm going, "Oh, my gosh. What is happening?" So that happens. That happens because people are, are human, right? So we have to take a break, and I go, "What, what are we doing? Come on. Get back in it with me." So you see the difference in w- if somebody's giving a very long answer, some practical things happen. One is I'm giv- y- the witness is giving more information than is needed, right? Unnecessary information, which means the other person... Let's put this in everyday application. Everyday people are going to get confused as to what the answer is. They're going to fill in their own assumptions of why you're not answering it directly. They're going to hear that there's just more words, which just automatically leads to the possibility of more confusion and more miscommunication. We don't want that. We want short, concise. So I like to say it when I, when I teach, is that if I ask you, "Do you have the time? Do you know what time it is?" That means I'm going to ask you to stop and ask that question in your mind. Do I know what time it is? What am I asking? Do you know what time it is? And if you give me the time, "Oh, it's, um, 8:03," that's the wrong answer. That's the wrong answer. If I say, "Do you know the time?" The answer is, "Yes, I do." It's that detailed. It is that detailed because in my world, it has to be that detailed. You have to be. In an everyday conversation, those high-stake, high emotion, just when everything is on the, the table, everything's on the line, every little word of clarity matters a great deal, and I have to make sure that you're prepared. So when you condense your words into something that is very short, very concise, the longer of an answer you give, the more opportunity there is for miscommunication, more opportunity there is for somebody to take your answer and twist it. Here's an example. Have you ever been in a text argument with somebody? I have. I know you have. And it, they just sent you something, and you're like, "Oh, really?" And you just start texting on your phone, just going after it, and you write a paragraph. I'm talking, you just, you hit 'em so good, and it's perfect, and you're, it's, it's, this is exactly how I feel. And you send it, and they send a text that doesn't even address anything that you said at all. Or maybe they addressed one part that they could defend and like, but they ignored all the rest, is that same principle. You're giving someone way too much to take and to twist. So if you want to handle high conflict, like I teach every one of my clients, you have to keep your answers as short as possible. Answer their question and only their question. All right? Okay. Hey, look, you're, you're ready. You're ready. I know we, we, maybe we're gonna need to talk about this. Let's go grab some coffee. Make sure you get some snacks. Feel good. We're about to go into this deposition room together, and you're gonna do awesome, I promise. What did we talk about today? When it comes to high-stakes conversation, number one, observe, don't absorb. Observe, don't absorb. Number two, use your breath as the first word that you say. Slow it down and choose your words. Be intentional with them. Make sure that you are operating on your timeframe, not somebody else's. And number three, say less. Shorten your answers. When you give way too much, you allow the opportunity for somebody to grab onto it, pieces, and say things you didn't mean. You're giving them more to twist. You're giving them more to twist. It's like, uh, giving somebody a long piece of rope. They, they're able to put a bunch of knots in it. But if you just give them a little bit of rope, it, maybe it's not even enough to do a, a, a, to tie their shoe with, right? It's a big difference. You wanna make sure that you're very short and concise. Man, my, uh, examples today are all over the place. We talked about the grocery store. We talked about shoelaces. Man, what a, what a day. What an episode. Playing nice gets you steamrolled. What do I mean by that? You know what it's like to be the person that goes, "Oh, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. No, no, no, really, no, I, it's, it's, it's just fine. Don't worry," when somebody gives you an extra assignment, your boss gives you something that you did not want to do, or somebody says, "Oh, hey, uh, can you grab that?" And you're like, "Oh, yeah, sure. I guess, uh, oh, that's fine." "Oh, hey, do you have time to go pick up my whatever?" And you really don't, but you go, "Um, yeah, yeah, why not? You know, I, I can definitely do that." And you just what? You people please constantly. You are just being nice to everybody, and everybody says, "You know what? That so-and-so, they're so nice. They're just so nice." And then they go on about their day, and you know what they do? They use you. Whether you love them, whether you find them to be a stranger, they still, in some sense, you're giving a part of yourself away. I'm not saying don't be of service. I'm absolutely saying have a servant's heart. I'm not saying that you should be less of yourself. Not at all. What we're gonna be doing and what you're gonna learn at the end of today's episode is how to feel more of yourself all the more There's a, there's a way to be able to blend these, to understand these, to make sure that you're not in this, sitting in this driver's seat and all you see out the, the, the, the front windshield is just you have to play nice wherever you go because in reality, you're, you're not gonna feel safe. Nice gets you steamrolled. Have you ever been the person who always goes out of their way? Always the one that seems to go the extra mile? You always are the person that what? Inconveniences yourself. You inconvenience yourself to where people go, "You know what? I don't really wanna do it. Ask so and so. They'll do it. They always say yes." Are you nodding your head right now? Might be. Or maybe you know somebody who is. Nice gets you steamrolled. Why? Because nice is surface. That leads us to number two

18. 1:26:30 – 1:35:08

    Pace and tonality: downward inflection, lower register, and slowing the room down

    1. SPSpeaker1:26:30

       What about tonality, um, specifically, uh, raising your voice for assertion more lowering it almost to get them to lean in to pay attention? Is that any part of your belief system in influence or persuasion in a conversation?

    2. JFJefferson Fisher1:26:51

       Yeah. The, the idea is you want to lower your voice. I'm not, I'm not, not talking really low, it's just you wanna make sure it's always a downward inflection when you want to make statements that are foundational statements, that are concrete statements, that are, "This is, is my value or my boundary." Um, when you have an upward inflection, it makes it sound like you're always asking a question. Like if I was gonna ask you, say, "Pass the salt," I wouldn't say, "Can you pass the salt?" As if, like, I doubt your ability to do it or as if you don't know what salt is. It's the downward inflection. "Can you pass the salt?" So you want to make sure that you have a, a lower register instead of something that's really high. Uh, same thing for, like, music. You take, for example, um, if you are always listening to fast-paced music, it, it encourages aggravation. It encourages anxiety to some extent. Trust me, I like all kinds of music, but my point is if you start to... Versus if you listen to something that's more easy listening, it will slow down your brain waves. It slows down your entire, uh, feeling of how you're reacting. So when you are able to use a voice that is lower in tone, it sounds a lot more in control. There's a difference if I were to, to say, for example, um, "I already told you I'm not gonna do that," versus, "I already told you I'm not going to do that." Like, one sounds like it's grasping for control and it's not in control. The other says, "I am fully in control of this moment."

    3. SPSpeaker1:28:31

       Bro, you made me just think of my dad. My dad, uh, was a yeller when I was a young man, so he used his voice the worst possible way, right? Uh, aggravation, stress, anxiety. He could take a situation that was a two and make it a 22 in, like, a second. However, as my dad got older, one of the things I noticed about my father, when I had a major life problem, like a big, big one, you know, like one of those once every eight or nine years I'm in big trouble type things, and I would call my dad, he would slow down the conversation. His voice would get deeper, and there was this... Just his pacing and tonality calmed me down multiple notches, so much so that to this day, my father's passed away, that I have imaginary conversations with my dad when I'm under stress where I am listening and mirroring that specific tonality of his where he slowed it down and calmed it down and gave me a sense of peace about the conversation to the extent that it was so influential on me that I will have these conversations with him even though he's not here because it calms me down. That's how powerful what you're-

    4. JFJefferson Fisher1:29:55

       Wow

    5. SPSpeaker1:29:55

       Yeah, it's, it's how powerful what you're suggesting is, that when your children come to you under stress or in trouble, I've, I've worked so hard in those specific moments of just listening to them-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher1:30:07

       Mm

    7. SPSpeaker1:30:08

       ... and slowing it down a little bit.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher1:30:11

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:30:11

       Getting a little deeper in my register. Go ahead. You were gonna say.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher1:30:14

        No, I was gonna say you're right. You're, you're spot on, and I, and I love that. I think that is so... I mean, he was your... That was the anchor in the conversation. I find that same way with the kids. Like I... We never... For the parents that are listening, you, you never... You always wanna be the person that your kids run to for help, uh, you know, when, when they make the mistakes. Uh, and if you always yell at them and, uh, raise your voice, they're not gonna come to you, but when you can be a safe space and say slowly, "Thank you for coming to me with this," you know, that's gonna just encourage that dialogue. The slowing down is, uh... There's a lot of wisdom in that.

    11. SPSpeaker1:30:54

        There is, brother. When I'm in a conversation that I feel like I'm, um... it's getting away from me, let's say that. That could be a sales negotiation. It could be a conversation with a friend. You name it. Um, I feel like in my case most of the time it's speeding up faster than I want it to. You talk about this in rule one. Number six is control the pace, and as I listen to you, I mean, you're very cognizant even of your pace and the way that you communicate, even on the show today and even in your content. You do. You're actually a little faster when you do the content from your car than you are right now on the show. You're even a pace slower today than you are in your car, so I watch that, like tonality and pacing. Yeah, let's talk about that in a conversation, 'cause with my ... When emotions run high oftentimes for me, I feel like the conversation is speeding up where my, my, uh, intellect is now not quite as sharp as my emotions are running, if that makes any sense. So what are strategies to control the pace, and what does that even mean?

    12. JFJefferson Fisher1:32:01

        Yeah. I love that you picked up on that.

    13. SPSpeaker1:32:03

        Mm.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher1:32:03

        The ... Anytime you are getting that fight or flight, and I know all of your listeners, highly educated, they know fight or flight. Whenever you're getting emotionally flooded like that, it is ... That's why you're having trouble finding your thoughts and connecting things, and that's why the quicker you get, maybe you've felt it where you're, you're either nervous. Same thing when you're really mad. You might stammer, and you might go like, "No, no, no, that, that's not," and you're having trouble getting words out. It's because you're just flooded. Your emotions are there. Your logical and analytical side is not. And so what I teach every one of my clients before they go cross-examination, and I'm fe- just offering them up to the wolves, is a constant reminder of you control the pace, not them. That means no matter how fast somebody is peppering you with questions, the conversation cannot happen any faster than you respond. So whenever y- they ask you a question and you give a rapid-fire answer back, or worse, you start to step over their question 'cause you already see where it's going, bad things happen. You say things you don't mean. You say things that are not fully thought out. That's why even in romantic relationships, all of a sudden you blurt something out and you go, "Oh, I, I, that's ... Oh, man, that's not what I mean," and you, you already knew as soon as it came out of your mouth, you, you put your foot in your mouth and you messed up. It's because you weren't controlling the pace. That means you need to slow down your words and that you need to leave space between what they said and how you're going and when you're going to respond. There's a difference if you were to ask me, if, if you said, "Hey, Jefferson, how was your day?" And I said, "Good. It was real good. I mean, it was re- it was, it was really good. Thanks," versus, "Hey, Jefferson, how was your day?" And I said, "It was good. It was a good day." Like, you can just hear the difference in which one listened to the question, which one thought about the answer, which one makes the other person feel acknowledged or heard. Same thing with ... That's why rule number one is say with control. If you go down and let's say you're at, you're at work, and all of a sudden you go, "What's wrong? What happened? What, what, what's going on?" And you ... All you're sensing and telling the other person is you're grasping for control versus you come in, take a breath, and then you're saying, "All right. What happened? Give it to me." Like, people are looking, like we said, for those emotional anchors. So what I teach is let your breath be the first word that you say. That's how you set the pace of a conversation. So where your first word would be, put a breath in its place. And what that's gonna do is keep your analytical side engaged into where you do not allow yourself emotionally f- to get emotionally flooded, and the bene- second benefit is neither does the other person because now you are also injecting the time and forcing them to slow down. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there

Episode duration: 1:35:09