Stop Overexplaining

1. 0:00 – 1:00

   Why confident leaders crumble under questioning (and why you need to be pressure-proof)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      I can't tell you how many times I've seen a confident business professional, an executive, a CEO, a manager, a president of a corporation, and they get on the stand, and they look like they are dripped in a million dollars, and as soon as they get into questioning, about question 10, they just unravel. They can't stand being questioned. They can't take the pressure. If you're somebody who's ever been on the stand before, has been in a position where you felt like you were even being cross-examined and nothing related to a deposition or anything legal coming up, you need to be pressure-proof. What I'm gonna teach you today are some secrets that I use to prepare every single one of my witnesses before they go on the stand. These are things that you have to know, whether or not you're in the legal world or just in the everyday world from the boardroom to the living room is what you need to know, how to handle pressure when it matters. Ready? Let's go. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one

2. 1:00 – 1:31

   Show format notes + workbook announcement

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:00

      that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tips to improve your communication, I'm going to ask that wherever you are listening, you find the button that says Subscribe and click it. And my promise to you in exchange is that if you listen to these episodes, I will make you a better communicator. When your communication is good, life is much better. I am also pleased to announce that The Next Conversation Workbook is officially out for pre-sale. You can find a link down in the show notes there. It's something I'm very excited about, practical

3. 1:31 – 2:01

   Sponsor break: Cozy Earth

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:31

      exercises for arguing less and talking more. This podcast is sponsored by, you know it, Cozy Earth. One thing I love about Cozy Earth, especially in this month of love in February, is that it really matters what you go to bed in. There's some people who, like me, you may not wear that much. Some people like to wear a pajama set. I gave my mom a set of pajamas from Cozy Earth. They're, like, made out of this bamboo material, and my mom cannot get enough of it. I know she's ordered some and

4. 2:01 – 4:03

   The yacht-owning executive who froze in witness prep

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:01

      ordered some for her friends. So if you are like me and you like to wear cozy things around the house or even, I like hoodies and sweatshirts, Cozy Earth makes some of the best stuff. Premium products, stuff I always stand by, and I like to stand by it 'cause it feels good. You can go to cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson to get up to 20% off. And now, let's keep going. One time, I was defending what my client was the president of a corporation, and they were probably in four different states, and I go up to his office. It's right by the water. He's, points out to me as soon as I get into his office, like, that's one of his yachts that's there in the marina. I- just all the things that he could do to show like, "Hey, I know what I'm doing. I'm Mr. Big Stuff." Um, everything he's wearing is, like, fancy couture, just dripping labels, all right? And I was like, "Okay, I, I get it. I, I can see this kind of personality in my, in my mind, and I know what I'm walking into." Sit down with him, and I pull out my briefcase, and I'm, start going through files and papers. And he kind of was sitting around like, "Ah, this is, this is nothing. They ain't got this." He's never taken a deposition before, by the way, and so here he is thinking that he's gonna just get it, no problem. As I go through the documents, I always do this thing where I put on the personality of the other attorney so that we can kind of role-play it, in other words, so he, give, give him a taste of what it is. So I'm, I'm kind and I'm nice, and then I go into this mode of, "M- Mr. Williams, isn't it true that you, you looked at that file that day, yes?" And as soon as he starts to hem and haw and kind of try and weasel around it, I'll say, "Mr. Williams, uh, my question is this," and I get really short, and I get, um, I act like I get blustered, and I start to raise my voice, and I start to get really down on him. And, I mean, it didn't take him any time at all before he was just, "Uh, uh, uh," and he couldn't even get his words out. We weren't even in the deposition.

5. 4:03 – 5:33

   Pressure changes your brain: soar or crumble

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:03

      This was day one of prep. Usually, I take three days. It doesn't matter how much of an ego you think somebody has. When the pressure is on, if you're not ready, everybody will melt. [chuckles] Everybody turns to putty because you're not used to that pressure. When the lights are on and you have the, the pulse in you and you feel that adrenaline, two things are gonna happen. One, you're either gonna maintain and soar in it and persevere through it and come out on top, or it's just gonna crumble you. It's just gonna crumble you. We, we were watching the Olympics last night, Sierra and I, and there was, um, a figure skater. They were doing the, um, the couples where it's a man and woman and, and they do their routine. And I forget what team it was. It doesn't matter. But they were supposed to do a turn at the same time, and you know that they've done these routines a million times, million times. And when it was time to come, the guy did the triple Axel or whatever, and the woman didn't, and it was just because she just, her brain just didn't compute. The pressure, Olympic pressure is a totally different... Now, I'm not saying at all I'm trying to compare what I'm trying to teach to Olympic-size pressure of the entire globe watching you. That's not at all what I'm saying. My point is, you don't know what it's like until you know what it's like. And when you're in the hot seat, no matter what, if it's litigation or you just feel like you're in a workplace where somebody's always pushing on you, you have

6. 5:33 – 7:04

   Step 1 — ‘Your first word is your breath’ (use a conversational breath)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:33

      to be ready for that pressure. And I'm going to teach you these three steps that I go through with every single one of my clients that's gonna make sure that you are pressure-proof. You ready? Number one: your first word is your breath. You've heard me talk about this many times, and I will always talk about it because it is always worth repeating, even for myself, and I talk about it a lot. Before you respond to the question that somebody gives you, take a breath. [inhales] [exhales] All right? Not just any kind of breath. I call it a conversational breath. This is based on a physiological sigh, and it is two seconds in through your nose. One more at the top, then out through your nose, about three to four seconds. [exhales] All right. Just in that moment, all right, you've already recentered yourself. Probably if you did it with me, you're sensing that your shoulders are starting to drop a little bit and your, your fingers maybe have unclenched in your hand or your fist, and you can sense that you're more sharper in your thoughts than you were before you ever started thinking about your, your breathing. It works for a reason, and the physiology of it I'm not gonna delve into on this podcast. But what you need to know is so many times there are people who, as soon as they are under pressure, they wanna talk fast. Fast, fast, as fast as they can. When somebody asks them a question, one of the worst things they can do is to try and answer immediately

7. 7:04 – 8:35

   Sponsor break: Notion custom agents

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:04

      and give all the information at once. That is a recipe for disaster. Before we keep going, I wanna take a moment to tell you about Notion. I've been using Notion probably for about three to four years, and they have come out with this tool that changes everything, really. It's called the Custom Agents tool, and what it is is, like, these AI-powered things within Notion in this connected worksp- space that helps your team do things automatically. So rather than having to put in prompts for stuff, it runs already based on schedules and triggers. Because you know what eats up more time than actual work? It's all the things around the work. So one of the things that I like so much about it is, like, when I'm done throughout the week, it already takes my key takeaways of things that I've done, creates it into a report, and then just delivers it to me without me having to say anything, which is awesome. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace for teams. Notion brings all your notes, docs, and projects into one space that just works. It's seamless, flexible, powerful, and actually fun to use. And with AI built right in, you spend less time switching between tools and apps and more time creating great work. And now, with Notion's new custom agents, the busy work that used to take hours or never actually happen runs itself. Try custom agents now at notion.com/jefferson. That's all lowercase letters, notion.com/jefferson. And now, let's keep going. If you allow them to ans-

8. 8:35 – 10:06

   Control the pace: pause, think, then speak

   1. JFJefferson Fisher8:35

      ask their question, and then you just pause, and you give it five seconds to think, to actually think about what you're going to say, I promise you it's gonna be a million times better. It sounds so simple, and you might be thinking, "Jefferson, I, I get it. Yeah, I need to breathe." But do you? All right. We... I talk about it all the time. I originally, when I very first started teaching clients and preparing them, I would tell them, "Count one Mississippi." Here in the United States, uh, we... In other words, if somebody was going to ask you a question, th- think in your head, "One Mississippi," and then answer. [chuckles] It was at least a very early attempt of what I have now come to of first word is your breath, meaning where your first word would be, put a breath in its place. Because I have seen countless times these high-dollar executives go right into their first immediate answer without even giving it a breath, without thinking about it. And then what happens is after they've answered, then it's like they have a moment to think of, "Okay, what did I... Wait, what did I just say? Well, well, let me, let me answer that differently. Let me..." And the damage has already been done because they thought that quickness and speed and just bluster was going to carry the day rather than intentionally choosing their words in a calm, confident, controlled manner. I do not want you to say things that you did not think about, that you didn't think out. And

9. 10:06 – 11:37

   Step 2 — Only answer the question that’s asked (stop overexplaining)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher10:06

      if somebody w- was to answer you differently because you just calm the conversation, better things are going to happen. What I tell every one of my clients probably more than anything is you control the pace. Nobody can ask you questions faster than you can answer them. All right? Y- you have control over that. So first word is just your breath. You with me? Number two, only answer the question that is asked. Only answer the question that is asked. You might think, "Yeah, Jefferson. Okay, breath, got it. Just answer the question. Got it." But do you? I cannot tell you how many times I have prepared a witness for three days, and it doesn't matter if it is the sweetest grandmother to the highest dollar executive, they all suffer from the same thing, and that's getting in their head, "Am I not saying enough?" They think that if I say more, I am believed more, and that is not the case. It's the exact opposite, where you say so much that it almost sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. If you suffer from overexplaining, then you know what I'm talking about. It's where you just have this flood of words that just blah, blah, blah, just come right out of you. And then you have this kind of, uh,

10. 11:37 – 12:38

    How to hear the exact question: yes/no vs. open-ended

    1. JFJefferson Fisher11:37

       what's the right word for it? Like a hangover, like a communication sentence hangover, where you go, "What did I just say? Oh my gosh, why did I say that? Why did I share that much? Why did I do..." And you then start beating yourself up, all right? And then, and then you're not focused on the conversation because you were just so focused on giving way more than is needed. Here's a quick test. If I were to ask you right now, "Hey, do you know what time it is?" What's your gut answer? Let's say I was in a deposition, and I need to cross-examine you. "Do you know what time it is?" If you gave me the time and said, "Oh, Jefferson, it's exactly 12:37 PM Central Standard Time," I would say that's wrong I ask, "Do you know what time it is? Do you know?" It's a yes or a no question. So you could say, "Yeah, I know what time it is." See the difference? Now, if I ask you, "What time is it?" Could you give me the time? Yes. "What time is it?" That's when you would say, "Oh, it's 12:37,"

11. 12:38 – 14:41

    Avoid tangents and identity-threat defensiveness

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:38

       or whatever. That's how much you have to be thinking of am I answering exactly the question that is asked? Because if you don't, it's gonna go everywhere. Some of my favorite memories when I am defending a witness, and especially if it's a sweet, uh, woman and they get a question, and all of a sudden sh- she may start to go off on a tangent. They say, you know, um, I don't know, "Miss, um, Washington, did you go to the store that day?" And she said, "Well, you know what? I don't really even know, because that day my sister called me, and I was even..." And I'm going, "Oh, f- f- f... Oh, boy, here we go. We're, we're going way off on a tangent." Didn't even listen to the question. That happens, too, with people you think are more confident. Um, the, the, the men and women who think they have it all together. Now, this applies equally to both genders, especially in the business setting. They hear questions as statements as insecurity. Meaning if I were to ask you, "Uh, y- you didn't look at the file that day, did you?" They think in their head, "I have messed up. I am deficient. I have, um... It, it is an attack on my sense of worth in some way." Instead of answering the question, they go, "Well, I mean, would you be able to do it if you were..." And all of a sudden they get really defensive. You might be able to recognize this in every day when y- you wanna snap and go, "Well, you tell me what it's like working two jobs, having to do the dishes, having to do..." And you start kind of, "W- you, you know what? You should walk in my shoes." That kind of thing. Soon as you get there, that, that means you've now taken my questions as a sense of a threat to your identity, and right there you're gonna crumble under pressure. You're gonna forget the whole purpose of, of being there or, or why you are even in the hot seat, and more, more importantly, how to get out of it. All right? So let's, let's talk about how to get out of it. Number

12. 14:41 – 15:11

    Step 3 — Speak slower and keep answers short (don’t give them more to ask)

    1. JFJefferson Fisher14:41

       three, the slower you talk, the better things are going to be. Not only are... am I wanting you to take a breath, not only am I wanting you to only answer the question that is asked, number three, short. Short. I just talked about this a minute ago, the, the problem of overexplaining. If you want to get out of the hot seat, don't give them more to ask. I wanna take a quick moment to tell you about ButcherBox. If you want to feel better,

13. 15:11 – 16:42

    Sponsor break: ButcherBox

    1. JFJefferson Fisher15:11

       think clearer, and have more energy, start with what you're putting in your body. And one thing I have been trying to do, what all the research says, is that you need to have roughly as much protein intake as you weigh, and that's hard to do, y'all. Um, hopefully there's some people out there who can certainly relate. Well, one of the, the things that makes it a lot easier for me is using ButcherBox, because when dinner feels really simple, it makes everything else feel simple, too. So ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein options straight to your door. That's including 100% grass-fed beef, free-range organic chicken, crate-free pork, and wild-caught seafood. Pretty awesome stuff. For over a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free, hormone-free, and independently verified. It's the clean, trustworthy protein you want to be eating, especially at the start of a new year. As a certified B Corp, ButcherBox is committed to doing things right, from how the animals are raised to how their team supports workers and reduces environmental impact. Plus, every box ships free always, and members get access to recipe inspiration, tips, exclusive deals that make every meal much easier, healthier, and more enjoyable. As an exclusive offer, new listeners can get their choice between organic ground beef, chicken breast, or ground turkey in every box for a year. Plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com/jefferson. That's right, your choice of organic ground beef, chicken breast, or ground turkey in every box for an entire year, plus $20 off your first

14. 16:42 – 22:11

    Practical rules: think of the end, 1-sentence texts, 3-sentence emails, ‘be a well’

    1. JFJefferson Fisher16:42

       box and free shipping as always. That's butcherbox.com/jefferson. Don't forget to use our link so that they know that we sent you. This is what I typically say: The longer your answer, the more questions you're gonna get. It's, it's, y- it's like you're giving them a menu of things to pick and choose from. Same thing when you think about that person in your life at work or at home. The longer of an explanation that you give, th- the more you've just, like, exposed yourself for them to th... shoot arrows at it. All right? So only answer the question. Be as short and direct as you can be. Most importantly, think about the end. If you feel that you're getting caught up in the moment, you need to focus on what's it look like at the end of the conversation. Picture yourself shaking their hand, saying goodbye, or maybe not shaking their hand, and leaving. In other words, you need to remember this is a temporary state. Life is going to continue. There are other things happening. There are people out in the world, and you're about to be one of them where they're not on the hot seat. And when you realize that the purpose of where you're at right now is... has a time and place and is not a constant, the better it is and the easier it is for you to get in your head of knowing that you have to be able to s- stand that, that pressure, that it, it is temporary. Same thing with any kind of pain, a bi- working out, exercising. It's same thing of talking under pressure. There are lots of people that you can think of if you think on a global scale that deal with a lot of pressure, and it just becomes second nature to them, and it's the same thing for you. When you feel that you are in a tight spot communicating with somebody Keep it short and sweet. That means when you text somebody, keep it to one sentence. That means when you email, if you can, keep it to three sentences. Usually what I say, if you can't explain it in three sentences, you need to rework it because if it takes longer, your message is going to simply get lost. A lot of the time what I will tell clients is don't do their work for them, meaning don't try and answer the question that you think they want to ask or you think they're going to ask or where you can kind of see where they're going so you kind of step on their question and start talking. No, no, no. That's not what you want. All right? Make them do their work. If they have a question, they will ask. I say this, uh, often, instead of a waterfall, be a well. In other words, let them draw the information, the information that they need. Don't try and curate and say, "Oh, this is where you're going? Well, let me give you all the information that I possibly can have." Don't throw the book at somebody. All right? Let them ask specifically where you've had highlighted. All right? That way you can feel yourself way more grounded and rather than feeling like, "I have to give you all the information like this is some kind of test or some kind of quiz." It's not that. In times of pressure, it is very surgical of allowing them to ask questions. You're gonna be calm and confident using breath, being short, only answering the question that is asked to make sure that at the end of it, you are pressure proof. You are the type of person that they're going to end the conversation going, "Okay, they-- this is somebody who knows what they're doing. This is somebody who's in control. This is somebody who's, who's confident," and that's where you want to be. If you've ever had any questions about times that you've been under tension or pressure and you're not sure how to handle it a-and I haven't covered here, I want you to put it down wherever you're listening and you have a place to leave comments, whether that's my, my e-mail newsletter, which you can reply to, or down on YouTube or wherever you're listening. That way I have a good gauge of saying, "Okay, I've addressed some of these points," and if this is a big concern, let me address that there because pressure is a topic that surrounds any category, right? And what I'm trying to do here is make sure that when you go into that high pressure c- situation, that high pressured conversation, that you feel like you have the confidence and the, the grip on it. That's a good word, the grip on a conversation where you feel like, "No, I have a good hold of this. I'm not trying to prove something. I'm not trying to make it sound like I know more than I do. I'm not trying to be somebody I'm not. I'm not trying to show my insecurity by overexplaining and getting blustered." You're just in the pocket is the best way that I can explain it. You might have heard me use this phrase. I love the idea of just being in the pocket, meaning you're, you're not trying to be too fast and you're not trying to be too slow. You're not rushing. You're not lagging behind. It's, it's like a music metaphor. Uh, I drum. Maybe s- others are listening. You drum. You're listening to a band and everybody's just in the, in sync, in the same groove. Somebody's not rushing or, um, slowing everybody down. You're, you're, you're just exactly right where you need to be. So to sum it up, number one, your first word is your breath. I want you to slow things down. Two, only answer the question that is asked. Don't try and invent different things. Don't try and assume to know where they're going. Only answer the question that is asked. And three, think of the end. Short sentences to the point, direct, think of the end, meaning if you wanna end the conversation with a smile on your face, think about that smile. If you wanna end the conversation feeling how confident I am, then you need to think of that confidence. Wherever you are, let the end of it be your beginning, and that's how to be pressure proof. As always, you can try that and follow me.

Episode duration: 22:11