The Conversation Every Couple Needs During Hard Seasons ft. Claire Holt

1. 0:00 – 2:02

   Claire Holt’s identity shift: stepping back from acting to redefine “enough”

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      Welcome to The Jefferson Fisher Podcast. Today, my guest is Claire Holt. You may know her from the Australia series H2O: Just Add Water, Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars, Mean Girls 2, The Originals, you name it. And what we get to talk about, why I was so excited to talk to Claire, is that we go deep on the guilt cycle that moms and parents feel between career, being fulfilled, being full-time parent, and we talk about how to know what season of life you're in, and how to give yourself just a little bit more grace. We also talk about phones, the guilt that we feel when we're on phones in front of our kids, and what role should phones play, and some suggestions on how to handle it a little better. And we talk about how to live in the discomfort when you're trying to build and grow and improve yourself. Hope you enjoy. Hi. So good to see you.

   2. CHClaire Holt0:52

      Hi. So good to see you too.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:53

      Great to meet you. Yeah, yeah.

   4. CHClaire Holt0:54

      Likewise. I'm a huge fan.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher0:56

      Thank you. Same. I am-

   6. CHClaire Holt0:58

      Thanks

   7. JFJefferson Fisher0:59

      ... I'm really, really honored to just kinda sit down with you for, uh, a little bit. I know that you have a, just a huge history of work in acting, from H2O: Just Add Water, the Austral- Australia series, from Pretty Little Liars, to Mean Girls 2, to Vampire Diaries-

   8. CHClaire Holt1:18

      Oh, my God. Look at you

   9. JFJefferson Fisher1:18

      ... to Originals.

   10. CHClaire Holt1:18

       Guys, sweet. [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher1:19

       All these things. And I'm, I'm... But I saw... One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you, Claire, is because you made a big decision here recently, and that was to take a step back from it all-

   12. CHClaire Holt1:33

       Yeah, I did

   13. JFJefferson Fisher1:33

       ... to almost kind of pivot, and that's really what I wanna focus on. Because I know there are a lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of moms, and it's something that we're dealing with in my own house, right, of what Sierra is wanting to do, of how they go from this one identity, whether it's a working job, they're doing this, to switching to something else. Take- taking that leap of faith. And so I'm really curious of how that played out for you.

2. 2:02 – 4:53

   The emotional whiplash of early motherhood: love, grief, anxiety, and unfulfillment at once

   1. CHClaire Holt2:02

      You know, it was such a challenge for me, because my entire identity was wrapped up in my career as an actress. And my value, or the value I placed on getting the role, um, being successful, constantly working, uh, booking auditions, booking campaigns, anything i- involved in that space, I thought I derived my worth from that. So when I had my first son, James, I knew I had always wanted to be a parent from when I was very young. It was my dream in life to be a mom. But I didn't realize how seismic that shift would be for me, and I really, really struggled. I really struggled. I felt down on myself. I didn't know who I was. Um, I, I found myself shaking a rattle in front of his face one day and reading him these black-and-white baby books, and I just burst into tears because I couldn't understand how I could love something so much and still feel so creatively unfulfilled, and still f- feel like, "Wait, this is supposed to be this big, pivotal moment in my life, and it's supposed to ch- change everything in the best way possible, and I feel so anxious and so sad." And so I really went on this journey over the last seven years, I mean, it, it, it's been constantly evolving, um, of trying to figure out who I am outside of that identity as an actor, and realizing that, "Hold on a second. If I had nothing, if I were just me, is that enough for me? And, and can I love myself as just that?" And I think I've gotten there. I really... Like, I have my moments, but I'm really proud of how hard I've worked to be okay with just being me, just Claire, you know?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher4:00

      Just Claire. That's the big question.

   3. CHClaire Holt4:02

      Just Claire.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher4:02

      Like, um, uh, you, you... It's like this moment where you have to really sink in, "Am, am I enough?" You know? Just-

   5. CHClaire Holt4:08

      Exactly

   6. JFJefferson Fisher4:09

      ... just me. Just Claire. Just Jefferson. Or am I enough?

   7. CHClaire Holt4:11

      I think we all feel that way, don't we? Like, not-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher4:13

      Yeah

   9. CHClaire Holt4:13

      ... not even just mothers. I think that, you know, we have this constant barrage of external stimuli, and, and we look at social media all day, and people appear to be achieving so much, and doing so much, and winning, and earning, and, and it makes us feel like, "Wait. Am I not doing enough? Should I be doing more? Should I be hustling?" And-

   10. JFJefferson Fisher4:35

       Yeah

   11. CHClaire Holt4:35

       ... I'm so guilty of that, for sure. Um, but every time I have those feelings, I have to just come back to, you know, what, who do I mean to myself as just a person, and can I lay my head on my pillow at night and, and be happy and proud of who I am?

3. 4:53 – 6:47

   Family life realities: kids’ ages, “boss” personalities, and parenting a strong-willed child

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:53

      Yeah. Y'all have three, right? I think two-

   2. CHClaire Holt4:55

      Three

   3. JFJefferson Fisher4:55

      ... two girls and boy?

   4. CHClaire Holt4:56

      We have three.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher4:57

      Or...

   6. CHClaire Holt4:57

      Two boys and a girl.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher4:58

      Two boys and a girl. Uh-

   8. CHClaire Holt4:59

      Mm-hmm

   9. JFJefferson Fisher4:59

      ... so how, what are their ages?

   10. CHClaire Holt5:01

       Uh, one just turned seven, uh, five-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher5:04

       Okay

   12. CHClaire Holt5:04

       ... and two.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher5:06

       Okay. That's [laughs] you got the spread. So ours-

   14. CHClaire Holt5:08

       I love the spread

   15. JFJefferson Fisher5:09

       ... uh, our son is seven. Oh, he's eight. He just turned eight-

   16. CHClaire Holt5:15

       He's eight. He just turned eight

   17. JFJefferson Fisher5:15

       ... in January, and I still always say seven.

   18. CHClaire Holt5:18

       It's hard, isn't it?

   19. JFJefferson Fisher5:19

       Um-

   20. CHClaire Holt5:19

       Because you don't wanna let go of that.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher5:20

       It is.

   22. CHClaire Holt5:20

       I know.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher5:21

       I don't want it to be eight, because-

   24. CHClaire Holt5:23

       I know

   25. JFJefferson Fisher5:23

       ... the thing is, Claire, I remember being eight, and that's when I'm like-

   26. CHClaire Holt5:26

       I know

   27. JFJefferson Fisher5:27

       ... "Surely he's not at that age yet," you know?

   28. CHClaire Holt5:29

       Crazy.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher5:30

       Um, yeah, so my son is, he's eight, and my daughter is six. Um-

   30. CHClaire Holt5:36

       Ah
4. 6:47 – 10:37

   How Claire was parented: gentle nurturer vs. structured disciplinarian (and the “full circle” moment)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:47

      Yeah. And I think that's a, and I think that's a great segue into this idea of, first, before we talk about how you parent your children, I'm, I'm curious of how you feel your parents parented you. You know, how, how, how, how did we get to have Claire?

   2. CHClaire Holt7:03

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher7:04

      And, and the, the way that she's approached life?

   4. CHClaire Holt7:07

      It's so interesting. I will tell you that when I had, when I became a mother, my respect and admiration for my parents just compounded. And, you know, b- before becoming a parent, I had all of these, "Oh, well, you did this and you did that, and I would've done this differently, and I don't think you, you know, worked hard enough on this aspect of parenting." And then I had my own son, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is the hardest [laughs] thing in the world. Nobody knows what they're doing. You guys did-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher7:37

      Yeah

   6. CHClaire Holt7:37

      ... an amazing job. Thank you so much." So it's really healing to sort of have that-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher7:42

      Yeah

   8. CHClaire Holt7:42

      ... full circle moment, especially, you know, with my mother. My, I'm one of four, but my, my parents had three girls, so, you know, there's a, there's an interesting dynamic at times with a house-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher7:53

      Yeah

   10. CHClaire Holt7:53

       ... full of women, I find. And so it was really beautiful to sort of have that like, "Wow, I'm really sorry for how I acted as a teenager" moment with my mother.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher8:02

       Yeah.

   12. CHClaire Holt8:02

       [laughs]

   13. JFJefferson Fisher8:02

       I, I love when I'm, like, having this moment with my, it's usually my son. Like, I'm having a get-on to him about like, "You sh- you, you don't just break this. This isn't yours." And then I look at my parents, if we're, you know, on a trip, and they're just cackling.

   14. CHClaire Holt8:16

       They're just like, "This is what you did."

   15. JFJefferson Fisher8:17

       You know? So it's just-

   16. CHClaire Holt8:18

       Totally

   17. JFJefferson Fisher8:18

       ... you know, it's definitely-

   18. CHClaire Holt8:19

       Totally

   19. JFJefferson Fisher8:20

       ... a lot of that

   20. CHClaire Holt8:20

       You know, they, it, I had this interesting dynamic, and I think it's similar in my house, where, um, you know, my mom was really gentle, and she was a nurturer, and we knew we could get away with some stuff with her. And my dad was really structured and, and, um, I wouldn't say strict is the right word, but he just believed in having chores and doing the right thing and having a strong work ethic, and no means no. You know, with my mom, no meant maybe not right now, maybe a bit later. And-

   21. JFJefferson Fisher8:49

       Yeah

   22. CHClaire Holt8:50

       ... she, but she was so soft and nurturing and, and really encouraged us to chase our dreams and, and she was the one who was like, "You can do this. You can go to America." And she, like, helped. She put me on that plane and, and really s- gave me the opportunity of a lifetime, um, to move here. So I'm super lucky. And I think, also, growing up in Australia was such a beautiful experience for me. Um, it was very different, I think, to, to how kids are growing up now. And also, I grew up-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher9:20

       Mm-hmm

   24. CHClaire Holt9:20

       ... without social media. I mean, it only came in-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher9:23

       Yeah, same

   26. CHClaire Holt9:23

       ... in my very late teens, early 20s, so-

   27. JFJefferson Fisher9:26

       Yeah

   28. CHClaire Holt9:26

       ... so I didn't have that.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher9:27

       I think we're the same age. Yeah.

   30. CHClaire Holt9:28

       Yeah.
5. 10:37 – 12:15

   Advice for changing seasons: stop judging yourself and give the adjustment time

   1. JFJefferson Fisher10:37

      What, what is that? And so what, what kind of advice do you have for those people who are in a, a shifting of seasons?

   2. CHClaire Holt10:47

      Don't judge yourself.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher10:48

      Hmm.

   4. CHClaire Holt10:49

      That's the biggest thing that I would say because it's so easy to go, "I shouldn't be thinking like this. This is a mistake. I'm supposed to do this," or, "I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to love my child. I'm supposed to love every moment of parenthood. It's so challenging for some people to have children, and I'm so lucky, and I'm not supposed to feel this way." Or, uh, you know, judging yourself doesn't fix anything. It just makes it worse. So I think giving yourself grace and acknowledging this is a massive change, and you can read as many parenting books as you want, but you have to, it's a lived experience thing, I think. You have to give yourself time to adjust and, and you shouldn't rush the adjustment, and you shouldn't think that you have all the answers. And if you wanna go back to work, that's great. If you don't wanna go back to work, that's great. It, it, it's something that's going to evolve over time, and I feel like now, seven years later, I'm just starting to hit my stride in terms of feeling ownership of my career and who I am and feeling comfortable with the decisions I'm making and comfortable enough to say no and brave enough to take leaps that I didn't feel safe taking. That's the, the most important thing. It takes time, and if you don't have all of the answers in- Six months. That's normal.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher12:12

      Yeah.

   6. CHClaire Holt12:12

      And, and healthy probably.

6. 12:15 – 17:33

   Breaking the guilt cycle: guilt as misalignment with values

   1. JFJefferson Fisher12:15

      Why do you feel, to me the, the, the emotion that comes up there is regret. You know, this... Well, actually if I dig deeper, I think the better emotion is guilt.

   2. CHClaire Holt12:30

      Yes.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher12:30

      Now, why do you f- w- why do you feel that, I'm, I'm gonna put this in... Again, I'm not a mother, right? I'm, I am a husband who d- does what his wife says.

   4. CHClaire Holt12:44

      You probably have some pretty good insights. [laughs]

   5. JFJefferson Fisher12:46

      I do have some insights. But I, you have a very unique perspective, and the, the listeners of this podcast do as well. I, I'm curious on your take of why that sense of guilt. You know, w- h- h- how, is that something you felt? Is that something-

   6. CHClaire Holt13:04

      Oh, yeah

   7. JFJefferson Fisher13:04

      ... you continue to feel?

   8. CHClaire Holt13:06

      Mm-hmm. Always.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher13:06

      And if you don't feel it anymore, how, how have you overcome it?

   10. CHClaire Holt13:10

       So I've always had a very overdeveloped sense of guilt, even from when I was a teenager. I mean, I remember being 13 years old at a sleepover. I took a puff of a cigarette, and I called my parents, and I said, "You have to come and pick me up. I have to tell you something."

   11. JFJefferson Fisher13:25

       Yeah.

   12. CHClaire Holt13:25

       They came and picked me up at 11:00 at night, and I stood there and said, "I have to confess. I took a puff of s- of a cigarette. I understand if you have massive consequences for me. I'm so sorry." So I've always-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher13:36

       Yeah

   14. CHClaire Holt13:36

       ... had that feeling inside of me, and it just increased a thousandfold when I had kids. And every thought, you know, this is the wrong thought. This, you, I'm not with my child enough. I don't wanna be with my child. I feel guilty because I want some time to myself right now.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher13:54

       Yes.

   16. CHClaire Holt13:55

       And-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher13:55

       This is what I'm talking about. Yes.

   18. CHClaire Holt13:56

       Yeah.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher13:56

       That right there. That, that kind of like back and forth guilt, but it also feels like starts really young. I see this even-

   20. CHClaire Holt14:03

       For sure

   21. JFJefferson Fisher14:03

       ... there's a big difference, like my son doesn't feel a thing. My daughter can be the first, like, "I need to tell you this." Like-

   22. CHClaire Holt14:10

       Yes

   23. JFJefferson Fisher14:10

       ... because it weighs so heavy on her, and that's just really curious to me of like you, you feel guilt-

   24. CHClaire Holt14:16

       I believe it's nature

   25. JFJefferson Fisher14:16

       ... about one, then guilt on the other. Yeah. You think it's a nature-

   26. CHClaire Holt14:19

       For sure

   27. JFJefferson Fisher14:19

       ... nurture type of thing?

   28. CHClaire Holt14:19

       I think it's n- I think it's nature. I think I was born that way. Maybe your daughter was born that way. My oldest son was born that way.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher14:25

       Yeah.

   30. CHClaire Holt14:25

       My daughter, she doesn't feel bad. She's good, [laughs] you know?
7. 17:33 – 19:44

   When kids protest separation: teaching children to handle discomfort (instead of fixing it)

   1. CHClaire Holt17:33

      I think it's challenging, you know, when you're at the phase or the stage where the child's crying for you, right? They're, "No, Mommy."

   2. JFJefferson Fisher17:40

      Yeah.

   3. CHClaire Holt17:40

      "Don't go. No, Daddy, don't go." Or they need, "I need you to put me to bed," or they're having some form of anxiety.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher17:45

      Mm.

   5. CHClaire Holt17:46

      And that makes that feeling so much more intense, and I think it's, I'm sure-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher17:51

      So true

   7. CHClaire Holt17:51

      ... it's a biological process. Like, your, your nature is to be a caretaker and to take care of s- of this baby, this infant, this toddler, whatever it is.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher18:00

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CHClaire Holt18:00

      But I also try and m- tell myself in those moments, I'm teaching them that they have the skills to handle discomfort. I'm not gonna-

   10. JFJefferson Fisher18:10

       Yeah

   11. CHClaire Holt18:10

       ... fix the discomfort that comes up for them when they want me to be there, when they need something, when they're feeling all of this anxiety in their body. It's my job to teach them how to handle that, not to fix it for them. So that's-

   12. JFJefferson Fisher18:23

       Oh, that's powerful, Claire. Yeah, that's great.

   13. CHClaire Holt18:26

       Thank you.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher18:26

       I think that's big.

   15. CHClaire Holt18:27

       Yeah, that, it's helped. I mean, listen, it's b- been seven years of trying to figure out the right way to do it, and I don't-

   16. JFJefferson Fisher18:32

       [laughs] Yeah

   17. CHClaire Holt18:32

       ... I've certainly not done that yet. But these things-

   18. JFJefferson Fisher18:35

       Yeah

   19. CHClaire Holt18:35

       ... really help me. And when I feel sturdy and when I feel like a strong leader, I see it reflected in my kids.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher18:42

       This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. One thing I love about Cozy Earth is their bedsheets. If you've never slept on Cozy Earth bamboo bedsheets, you don't know what you're missing. We have been using those bedsheets for over a year now. Not the same ones, obviously. We've, we, we washed them, changed them, [laughs] changed them out for a long time now, and they're fantastic. Um, and I tell all of my friends about what they are, that we gift them. They're just excellent. So if you are somebody that you are very particular about the thread count and how comfortable it is, and you go to other hotels and you miss your bed back home, you're gonna love Cozy Earth bedsheets. I know I do. Cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code JEFFERSON for up to 20% off. Cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code JEFFERSON for 20% off. And now enjoy the episode. Now, we've talked about moms, and we're gonna... I definitely wanna keep on this motherhood thread.

8. 19:44 – 27:14

   Partner support in hard seasons: validation, fairness, resentment, and “comfort vs. solutions”

   1. JFJefferson Fisher19:44

      I also wanna s- pause and say, hey, do you have any advice for the bonehead, caveman husbands-

   2. CHClaire Holt19:50

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher19:51

      ... like me, you know, who... H- how was your, how is your husband-

   4. CHClaire Holt19:57

      He's the best

   5. JFJefferson Fisher19:57

      ... uh, your partner supported you in this, in these moments, uh, when you're kind of in the, the guilt cycle-

   6. CHClaire Holt20:05

      Mm-hmm

   7. JFJefferson Fisher20:05

      ... of having different wants and being pulled different directions, and, um, to encourage you to say, "Hey, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be here-

   8. CHClaire Holt20:14

      For sure

   9. JFJefferson Fisher20:14

      ... no matter what." H- w- how, what's the-

   10. CHClaire Holt20:16

       There's-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher20:16

       ... best way that he's been able to show up?

   12. CHClaire Holt20:18

       There's a few things. And first of all, like you saying that showing up, he just shows up. He's there. And, you know, sometimes he asks me, "Do you want comfort or solutions right now?" 'Cause he's a solutions-oriented guy, and he's very used-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher20:32

       You know, a fixer

   14. CHClaire Holt20:33

       ... to fixing things. Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher20:34

       Yeah.

   16. CHClaire Holt20:34

       So sometimes he'll give me a, "What, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that?" And I'm like, "I don't wanna hear it. I just wanna complain," right? [laughs] And he's amazing-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher20:40

       Yeah. [laughs]

   18. CHClaire Holt20:41

       ... at that. I think also, you know, we had a journey because when I first had children, a lot of resentment came up because so much in my life changed, and f- I wouldn't say very little, but not that much changed in his. You know, he still got to... He, he didn't have to carry the baby. He didn't have to go through pregnancy and postpartum. He didn't have... He could just ta- he took the two weeks off, and it was awesome and amazing, but then he went right back to work. And everything was the same. And I was like, "Hold on a second. How is this fair?" E- every single moment of my life, I am consumed with this childbearing, um, giving birth, a postpartum, raising, feeding, the pressures that come with that. And you know, it's my responsibility to breastfeed. It's my responsibility to take care of this baby. When he cries, he needs me. And I felt really resentful because I had focused so much on my career for so long. And, you know, I'm sure that that was very hard for him to navigate, but he just listened, and he totally understood, and he never made me wrong, and he never tried to tell me, "No, you, you... I, things have changed. I can't travel. I can't, you know, do..." He never did any of that. He just went, "I hear you. I'm really sorry. I'm here for you if you wanna talk about it." Um, and that was super helpful. He validated that, and he's such a hands-on dad. Like now especially with a l- slightly older kids, I feel so comfortable going, "Here they are. I'm off." And you know, we have help, but I'm very confident that my husband could take care of all three children by himself for a week, and they'd be fine. Things may not be done the way I do them, but they'd be done the way he does them, and he's their dad, and it's great. So I think just understanding that it's more than just having a baby. This, this identity shift and all of the things that come with it, it's so impactful for the mother, for the woman. And so just, like, listening and understanding and giving a little grace. W- we may be kind of difficult to be around sometimes. And, and just acknowledging, okay, like, l- it's like, treat us like a toddler. You know, your toddler's having a tantrum. You're not gonna make them wrong. You're not gonna... You're just gonna let them have their moment, and they're gonna work through it, and then you're gonna chat about it after. It's kind of similar. You know, let, let, let us work through our process, and so that's what he does, and he's awesome, and, you know, we've been married for eight years, and he's... I'm obsessed with him. He's the greatest guy ever.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher23:13

       That's awesome.

   20. CHClaire Holt23:13

       And so yeah, it's really awesome.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher23:15

       I think we all, we all go through that, that toddler tantrum. You know, all of us.

   22. CHClaire Holt23:20

       Totally.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher23:21

       And, but I think a lot of the times, you know, in relationships we have a hard time giving the same amount of rope, you know, to, to allow it to happen. Like if my daughter comes down the stairs, and it's let's say 8:00 PM, and she's crying and whiny, and, you know, maybe her voice is louder and things, and she's not liking stuff, and she's crossing her arms, it's like I'm not going to get mad at like, "How dare you behave this way to me?"

   24. CHClaire Holt23:54

       Of course.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher23:55

       I see it as she's tired. She's sleepy.

   26. CHClaire Holt23:58

       Totally.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher23:58

       She's just sleepy.

   28. CHClaire Holt23:59

       Totally.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher24:00

       You know? Or, or she's just hungry, or she doesn't feel good. You know, the, these, like, very natural things that we don't mind seeing that through the lens of our own children, but we have a hard time seeing it through the lens of the person w- we had the children with.

   30. CHClaire Holt24:14

       For sure.
9. 27:14 – 31:35

   “Give yourself grace” in practice: visual reminders, marathon training, and doing hard things

   1. JFJefferson Fisher27:14

      That's $75 off at Mill, M-I-L-L, .com/jefferson. You won't regret it. And now let's keep going. So you were telling me, Claire, about the thing that your daughter came home with. Can you, can you show me one more time what that was?

   2. CHClaire Holt27:30

      Oh, yes. So my daughter-

   3. JFJefferson Fisher27:30

      Yeah

   4. CHClaire Holt27:30

      ... she came home. It was from her teacher. It says, "Give yourself grace." I love her teacher more than anything, and she's just so kind the way she, she helps these children navigate the big feelings, and she knew I was going through, like, a trickier time. I, I'm quite close to her, actually. She's so awesome. And so she, she sent this home with me, and I put it beside my desk, and I see it every day. And any time I'm having a hard time and I'm thinking about myself, about my failures, or my guilt, or this, or I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that, I just look at it, and I pause. I'm a big visual person. I feel like if you have this reminder in front of you, a vision board, uh, write something on your mirror, it really helps.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher28:11

      Is that why you think you turned to marathon running?

   6. CHClaire Holt28:15

      [laughs]

   7. JFJefferson Fisher28:16

      Is... You, you know, you, you kind of-

   8. CHClaire Holt28:18

      Trauma

   9. JFJefferson Fisher28:18

      ... subconsciously enjoy the... Yeah, exactly.

   10. CHClaire Holt28:21

       [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher28:21

       Just getting all your trauma out.

   12. CHClaire Holt28:23

       Exactly.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher28:23

       Is it, is it that you've... You know, there is, the people who run marathons that I know in my life, in fact, Travis, who's one of the, uh, the producer of the show, uh-

   14. CHClaire Holt28:36

       Okay, Travis

   15. JFJefferson Fisher28:36

       ... he, he does ultra, he does ultramarathons, Claire.

   16. CHClaire Holt28:39

       Damn. That is impressive.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher28:40

       Okay? He does, he does ultras.

   18. CHClaire Holt28:42

       Stop.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher28:42

       And last year, I think he did, he did an ultra, like, every month, okay?

   20. CHClaire Holt28:46

       What?

   21. JFJefferson Fisher28:46

       He's, he's about to run-

   22. CHClaire Holt28:47

       Travis

   23. JFJefferson Fisher28:47

       ... the Boston Marathon.

   24. CHClaire Holt28:48

       I'm gonna call you up.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher28:49

       Yeah.

   26. CHClaire Holt28:49

       I'm going to Boston this weekend to cheer. I'm so excited.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher28:52

       There we go.

   28. CHClaire Holt28:52

       That's amazing.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher28:53

       There, yeah.

   30. CHClaire Holt28:54

       Yeah.
10. 31:35 – 39:37

    Seasons of life mindset: letting go of comparison and trusting what returns later

    1. JFJefferson Fisher31:35

       I- now, I know that, um, when you are facing these big, like, seasons, at least this is just me. I think I'm really talking more, like, to myself on this, is I... It helps me when I realize when I am in one season and not in another season. Meaning, I want to do all the things, right? But that's not the season that I'm in. Like, I- it would be great if I could go with friends or, you know, do this or go try that and go learn this, but that would take away from picking my kids up, putting them to bed, breakfast in the morning. And I know it's like, that's not my season. And so much... I think when I come to peace with that, there is a big kind of, a emotional nod in my mind of like, "That's just not the season I'm in." You know, later in life, yeah, I'll, I'll get to have that chance, but that's not this season. And so when I know that that's going to be coming or it hasn't gone away, it can s- and I, I... It helps me actually focus-

    2. CHClaire Holt32:45

       It settles you

    3. JFJefferson Fisher32:46

       ... better-

    4. CHClaire Holt32:47

       For sure

    5. JFJefferson Fisher32:47

       ... on, on the season I'm in. Do you, do you relate to that at all?

    6. CHClaire Holt32:50

       Yeah. I f- I find that sometimes when I see people having brunch on a Sunday with a mimosa and their friends.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher32:55

       [laughs] Yeah.

    8. CHClaire Holt32:56

       And I look at it sometimes, and I'm covered in, like, maple syrup from pancakes, and, like, I'm trying to chase a kid around with a spoonful of eggs or something.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher33:05

       Yeah.

    10. CHClaire Holt33:05

        And then I go, "I know that that's gonna come back for me one day, and I'm gonna be wishing I had those sticky fingers on me."

    11. JFJefferson Fisher33:13

        Mm.

    12. CHClaire Holt33:13

        I know for sure. And so I can watch them, and I can say, "Oh, that was a nice time in my life, and I really did enjoy that. Maybe I didn't value the peace and quiet quite enough in that moment, but it's gonna come back for me, and nothing is gonna compare to what I'm in now, this season, this beautiful, beautiful season." In fact, I find myself really struggling to let go of this season and, you know, "Should I have another baby? Should I just have 10 babies? It's the greatest thing of all time."

    13. JFJefferson Fisher33:43

        [laughs]

    14. CHClaire Holt33:43

        "It's the most beautiful. There's so much love. I love it. They're growing up. I can't bear the thought of them leaving me." And so you're so right to be... I just try to remind myself, I know that this is not gonna last forever. In fact, it's probably gonna be another five, six, seven years of having kids in my house in the way that they are right now.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher34:04

        Yeah.

    16. CHClaire Holt34:04

        And my gosh, am I gonna miss it when it's gone.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher34:08

        Before we keep going, I'm gonna take a moment to tell you about Zocdoc. I don't know about you, but my guess is, if I know you, there is a doctor's appointment that you need to have. There, there's a dentist appointment, there's a dermatologist appointment, there's some kind of health-related appointment that you have n- been needing to get put on the schedule, and you've been avoiding it because there's always that one thing. I know because it happens to me. It took me way too long to schedule a dermatologist appointment that I know I need to do. I just haven't done it. Zocdoc makes it that much easier. So what it does, first off, it's all online, and it can find health providers in your area that take your insurance, which is huge, and also on the platform itself, it will help set up the appointment for you, remind you for the appointment. So when they can make the process easier, it makes it easier to actually go to the appointment. With more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states, you can find everything from primary care to dentistry to dermatology, eye care, and more than 200 other specialties. You can search by specialty or even by symptom to build the care team that's right for you. Do you need an in-person appointment? They can do that. Do you want a video visit? Awesome. They can do that too. You can read thousands of verified patient reviews and see real-time availability. Appointments made through Zocdoc happen fast and typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments, I'm talking to you, and go to zocdoc.com/jefferson to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Zocdoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C .com/jefferson, zocdoc.com/jefferson. And now, let's keep going. You shared something of, you know, when your kids, that you feel like that, that push and pull of you leaving them, and they want you to stay, and you're teaching them to learn to handle the discomfort, right? You're saying, "I, I can't do everything for you. You have to learn. I have to teach you how to handle the discomfort." And I feel like because we are now apparently adults, somehow that happened-

    18. CHClaire Holt36:22

        Are we? I don't know

    19. JFJefferson Fisher36:23

        ... that, yeah. Is that right?

    20. CHClaire Holt36:24

        [laughs]

    21. JFJefferson Fisher36:24

        I don't feel like that's right.

    22. CHClaire Holt36:25

        I'm still 21.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher36:26

        Um, that... Exactly, that it's marathons, it's- You know, um, the cold plunge, it's the, it's the hobbies, it's... Those are the things that have to teach us sometimes to live in the discomfort. And so-

    24. CHClaire Holt36:47

        For sure

    25. JFJefferson Fisher36:47

        ... you are, when you're doing the marathon, and yeah, you have to run these... It's not like you can just go to the gym and do 30 minutes of a workout. Like, a, a, a marathon takes a lot of training and a lot of-

    26. CHClaire Holt36:58

        Oh, yeah

    27. JFJefferson Fisher36:58

        ... miles and a lot of time. It's, it's you having to live in that discomfort.

    28. CHClaire Holt37:04

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher37:04

        You think that's some of what that's taught you?

    30. CHClaire Holt37:06

        For sure. I, I mean, especially in Miami, Florida, in the summer when you've got-
11. 39:37 – 47:29

    Phones, presence, and parenting fear: work boundaries, privacy choices, and “home mode”

    1. CHClaire Holt39:37

       Yes, and that's being on my phone. Um, because I... A large part of my business, um, both social media but also, uh, starting the business that I've just started, my fashion brand-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher39:51

       That's right

    3. CHClaire Holt39:52

       ... requires-

    4. JFJefferson Fisher39:52

       I mean, the T-shirts, right?

    5. CHClaire Holt39:53

       Yes. Yeah.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher39:54

       The T-shirt. Do you have, do you have a men's line, or is this women's?

    7. CHClaire Holt39:56

       [laughs] We have a boyfriend tee that I, I make my boyfriend, my husband wear, and he looks great in it.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher40:00

       Okay.

    9. CHClaire Holt40:01

       But just women's for now.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher40:03

        That's awesome.

    11. CHClaire Holt40:03

        Um, you know-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher40:03

        Just say, I'll have you give me the hookup.

    13. CHClaire Holt40:05

        You're so sweet. Uh, so a lot, a lot of my business is being on my phone, and I-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher40:11

        Yeah

    15. CHClaire Holt40:11

        ... have to m- make a conscious effort to tell my kids, like, "This is not do..." You know, "I'm not just doing s- I'm trying to work," and, and finding that boundary of like, okay, I have this device that keeps me connected and, you know, allows me to do all of this stuff in a, in a, in moment's notice and, and fix problems and, and, you know, come up with solutions, whatever it is, but also my kids don't know that. They don't know what's going on in that thing.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher40:38

        Oh, that's such a good point. Yeah.

    17. CHClaire Holt40:39

        So, so I feel very guilty sometimes when I pull it out and my face is in it. I hear my son trying to ask me a question or, and I have to say, "Just one minute. I'm just doing some work." And, and they don't understand. And so that is, that's something I'm really trying to navigate now, um, especially in the world of social media. I made a pivot that I don't share my children's faces or voices anymore.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher41:02

        Sure. Yeah, same. I don't do that either.

    19. CHClaire Holt41:04

        And that really... You know, when I started, uh, when I started having kids, I did not understand at all, and I had had this process of really struggling. I had a miscarriage, um, with my first pregnancy, and I was quite open about it, and I shared it online, and I got so much love and support, a tremendous amount of love and support, and I felt very connected to my community in this journey of becoming a mother. And so it just felt natural to me, oh, well, this is my baby. I'm just gonna share my kids. And then I started sharing, and I would talk about it, and I didn't s- know really what was happening on the internet at that point. I mean, I did, but I didn't really understand. And then as time went on, I started to feel more and more uncomfortable about it. But I was like, well, I've already shared them. I've already shared their lives. Like, what, do I just stop? And then, and then finally I got to a place where I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna make a big hurrah about it, but I'm not gonna do this anymore. It doesn't feel right. It d- my, you know, it's misaligned with my values. These are not my values. And so I stopped sharing them, and, and I think that's created, like, a really healthy boundary, but I still have to be on Instagram for my business. I still have to be on my emails. I still have to do things on my phone. And so that's, I really struggle with that, how to explain to them, you know, it's not like you just clock in to a 9:00 to 5:00. It's a very different-

    20. JFJefferson Fisher42:29

        Hm

    21. CHClaire Holt42:29

        ... world that we live in now. And so that-

    22. JFJefferson Fisher42:31

        Yeah

    23. CHClaire Holt42:32

        ... I'm working on that one.

    24. JFJefferson Fisher42:34

        You care if I, I share some things, at least what I've learned?

    25. CHClaire Holt42:36

        Please, please.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher42:37

        With this social media aspect-

    27. CHClaire Holt42:39

        Please, please

    28. JFJefferson Fisher42:39

        ... of it all is Oh, and I'm certainly no expert of the right way to, to do it because I've struggled with a lot of that same stuff. So I very much relate to that. There is a fear in me that what I don't want is my kids at the age of 24, 27, 33, where they're in therapy and they have to tell the therapist, "Because my k- my parents, you know, emotionally abandoned me 'cause they looked at their screen more than me." You know? They-

    29. CHClaire Holt43:17

        I've got chills

    30. JFJefferson Fisher43:18

        ... I said, "Hey"
12. 47:29 – 53:50

    Making the leap without certainty: time, identity labels, micro-choices, and not healing alone

    1. JFJefferson Fisher47:29

       Yeah. I, I, I can definitely relate in that fear, you know, and how we, how we show up as, as parents, and I think that's, that plays a, a big part. You told me that s- struggling on your phone, you know. Is there a, is there a part of your mindset that struggles? Is it, is it doubt over whether you're doing the right thing? And like, I'm trying to give... Let's put it this way. For, for the listener who says, "Claire, I feel like I'm in the exact same season you were seven years ago, or even four months ago when you decided, you know, to make the leap to take a step back from acting. And I'm, I am, I'm right there on the edge and I don't know what I should do." You know, what, what would you tell that person?

    2. CHClaire Holt48:18

       Uh, it's interesting because it's different for every- everyone, and I think I would say give yourself time to figure it out. Don't feel like you have to have the answer right now, because it's going to take time. And, you know, you may wanna go back to the career you had before, but it may not be available to you, and you're only gonna figure that out when you get there and you try, and then you're gonna have to pi- pivot. But it's, again, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. This, this version of yourself doesn't have to come to you immediately. It will take time, and it may be uncomfortable. It may feel uncomfortable that you don't have the answers right away, but really trying to be present and to sit in that and to acknowledge it and not rush to change it, but to sort of work through it, I think is the best advice I could give. Um, I still don't have it right. Like I, I still don't know, and it took me a long time to feel comfortable. When people ask me, "What do you do?" I would always say, "I'm an actor. I'm an actor." And then it became, "Oh, I'm just a mom. Oh, I'm just a mom." And now it's, "I do a lot of stuff, actually. It's really, it's really fun. I'm having a great time." I don't need to identify what I am, what I do, who I am to anyone. Um, and that's, that's something that, you know, it took me seven years to get there, so takes time. [laughs]

    3. JFJefferson Fisher49:49

       It does, and I think what I hear you saying is whatever time you think you have to figure it out, whatever time you think you need, give yourself a more. You know? Give, give yourself more. Whatever time you think it's, it should take-

    4. CHClaire Holt50:06

       Right. [laughs]

    5. JFJefferson Fisher50:07

       ... double it. Yeah, yeah.

    6. CHClaire Holt50:08

       Yep.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher50:08

       Whatever time you think-

    8. CHClaire Holt50:09

       For sure

    9. JFJefferson Fisher50:09

       ... it should take, double it. 'Cause most likely you're being the hardest critic of yourself. You're harshest on-

    10. CHClaire Holt50:15

        For sure

    11. JFJefferson Fisher50:15

        ... "I should have figured this out by now. I'm way... I'm, I'm taking too long. I'm getting, uh, I'm g- I'm, I'm getting too old. I'm, I, I don't have this all right." It's like whatever time you think that you... Double it. You know, give yourself a little bit more time, which I think plays right into your give yourself a little bit more grace.

    12. CHClaire Holt50:32

        And, and I think the other thing that is really important is you get to decide how you feel about any given situation or moment, and sometimes where I'm re- when I'm really struggling and I'm in that hole, I have to remind myself, "Wait a second, I can change how I feel. In, in the snap of my fingers, I can decide I'm gonna be happy right now. I'm gonna decide to look for the good in what I have around me right now. I'm gonna s- decide to lock in on the giggles of my kids and how that makes me feel." And you, having those like micro moments of control sometimes help you to feel a little more in control of your life as a whole.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher51:12

        That's, I think that's really awesome. And do you feel that the, the, the parts of you that have been in your whole career in acting, do you think that has played to be a strength or a weakness, you know, in this? Or maybe not a weakness, but at least sometimes a, a hurdle or an obstacle in the life that you have now.

    14. CHClaire Holt51:37

        In terms of putting on a front or acting as-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher51:41

        Yeah

    16. CHClaire Holt51:43

        ... something else?

    17. JFJefferson Fisher51:43

        Yeah. Yeah, trying, trying to say am, am I, am I really being Claire or am I-

    18. CHClaire Holt51:47

        In here?

    19. JFJefferson Fisher51:47

        ... trying to put on, put on the role of, of mom?

    20. CHClaire Holt51:52

        Oh, yeah, for sure, and it's because I didn't feel good about myself and who I was, and those insecurities led me to s- act as if or put on a front or, you know, hide behind, "Well, I'm an actor. I'm this, I'm that," or, "I'm just a mom." And I mean, I've been in therapy for almost 20 years. Like I, it, it's taken me so long to work through all of this stuff and, and to get to a place where I feel super comfortable with who I am, and so that's another thing I would suggest. You know, it doesn't have to be a therapist, but just talk to someone. Don't do it by yourself. You don't have to sit in that world of, of discomfort or insecurity alone, and hopefully you have a partner, especially if you're a mother, hopefully you have a partner that you can share that with and be vulnerable with because sometimes just speaking it out loud, it gives you freedom as well.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher52:49

        Yeah. I, I think I read recently of, um, you're not meant to heal alone, and I think that was-

    22. CHClaire Holt52:56

        Totally

    23. JFJefferson Fisher52:57

        ... um-

    24. CHClaire Holt52:57

        It's beautiful

    25. JFJefferson Fisher52:58

        ... something that stuck with me. Claire, thank you so much for-

    26. CHClaire Holt53:01

        Thank you so much for having me

    27. JFJefferson Fisher53:02

        ... your time with me. Yeah, getting to hear, yeah, how, how you approach life, uh, and I know, I can tell that we're in the same season, you know, right now-

    28. CHClaire Holt53:10

        For sure

    29. JFJefferson Fisher53:10

        ... and that gives me, that gives me a lot of hope and a, a good reminder that-

    30. CHClaire Holt53:15

        You're out of diapers

Episode duration: 53:51