What to do when someone cries in the workplace | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 0:19

   Crying at work: freeze response and why it matters

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      What do you think about crying in the workplace?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:03

      Oh, that's a good-

   3. SPSpeaker0:04

      How do you... Have you had that happen? What do you do when it happens in the workplace?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:09

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker0:09

      I had it happen once, and I totally... I, I just froze and, and panicked and did everything the opposite of your [laughs] of your recommendation.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher0:17

      Oh.

   7. SPSpeaker0:17

      So I need the advice for myself.

2. 0:19 – 1:11

   If you’re the one crying: do nothing and don’t apologize

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:19

      Yeah. If you find yourself crying, your eyes watering, in an argument, this is what you do. Absolutely nothing. Don't you dare, for one second, apologize or be sad or apologetic that you cry. It is, it is part of your natural biology. The higher the tension, the higher the release. That's it. It's, it's... What I say is it's your stress in a liquid form. That's all it is. And what you need to do is, one, recognize this is not something to apologize for. It's what your body does naturally. Do you apologize when you yell? That... Not that what you are, it's that you, uh... the act of yelling, it's what you say that gets you in trouble.

   2. SPSpeaker1:04

      Hm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:04

      Like, you don't apologize when you belt when you sing.

   4. SPSpeaker1:06

      Hm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:06

      It's the same thing. It's just what you choose to come out of your mouth, how you form your words.

   6. SPSpeaker1:10

      Hm.

3. 1:11 – 1:41

   “Label the tears” to regain control and self-respect

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:11

      But number one, you don't apologize for it. Number two, label the tears. So it can be... Let's say you, you are at work. It's, it's not the, "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry I'm crying. Oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so sorry." Uh-uh, none of that. Don't ever do that. I don't, I don't wanna hear that. That is downgrading your own self-esteem. It's not the, "Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm so embarrassed. I'm sorry I'm crying." Nope. You're gonna just wipe them away without saying anything. And if you need to label them, it's gonna be, "These are tired tears. These are grateful tears. These are stress

4. 1:41 – 3:21

   If someone else cries: don’t shame, don’t mock, don’t make it the headline

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:41

      tears. These are overwhelmed tears. These, these are tears that care." Whenever you label them, you are claiming the power over them. It's not a, "I am just so pathetic. Oh, my goodness, I need to just... Forget me. Let me be in the background. Don't look at me, please." It is that you have to step into it, of understanding what your body naturally does. And if you're the other person, let's say, um... Let's put- reverse this, and I'm the one, for some reason, I'm starting to cry in this argument-

   2. SPSpeaker2:14

      That's me

   3. JFJefferson Fisher2:14

      ... Cody. What you don't do is go, "Here we go. All right. Like, let me guess, you're gonna cry? Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Okay. No, no, you, you cry. Get it all out. Yeah, that's right. I'm the bad guy." Like, that is just making it so much worse. Again, it's biology. You can't help it. It happens naturally. There are people that are just big criers, and to me, that's their superpower. They, they can feel far more than anybody else can. It's their emotional intelligence on display. That just means they feel a lot. And I find it to be such a down... I s- I find it to be such, um, a disservice when people apologize-

   4. SPSpeaker2:55

      Hm

   5. JFJefferson Fisher2:55

      ... when they cry because it is, it's part of what makes us human.

   6. SPSpeaker3:00

      Hm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher3:00

      What's scarier is if you never cry.

   8. SPSpeaker3:03

      That probably is scary.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher3:04

      Yeah, that's scary. What are you, an, uh, an animal? Or like a ro- even animals cry. Like, what are you, a robot? That is just not... That's not, that's not real. That's not realistic. So, um, one would be never apologize for it.

   10. SPSpeaker3:16

       Hm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher3:17

       You're not gonna say anything, "I'm so sorry about this."

   12. SPSpeaker3:20

       Mm-hmm.

5. 3:21 – 4:19

   How to respond in real time: tissue nudge, keep listening, avoid derailing

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:21

      Two is gonna be that you label those tears. And if you're the other person, you're never gonna make somebody feel bad for it. You're not gonna call them out. If you wanna just nudge a tissue for them, that's it. Don't pick it up and go, "Here."

   2. SPSpeaker3:33

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:34

      Throw it at them or something. Just be there. And don't stop the communication. If the other person's crying, don't, don't stop. You can say, "You need a timeout," that's fine. Otherwise, you just keep listening.

   4. SPSpeaker3:46

      Hm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher3:47

      In fact, you say out loud, "I'm listening. I'm listening. Keep going. I'm listening." A- as if, "Don't worry about this. I, I'm not paying attention to any of that. I'm, I'm listening. Keep going." Like, it, that is way more empowering than you going, "Are, oh, are, are you okay? You crying? Do we need to have a timeout? Are you..." As soon as you're calling attention to it, you've already went off track.

   6. SPSpeaker4:10

      Yeah, because you're alm- it's almost like you're anxious about their emotions. You're like, oh-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher4:13

      Yeah

   8. SPSpeaker4:13

      ... let me put this away. Hide it. Put it in a box.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher4:15

      Exactly.

   10. SPSpeaker4:16

       Get it out of here.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher4:16

       Oh, no, we can't see it. Exactly.

   12. SPSpeaker4:17

       That was, that was me, for sure.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher4:19

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker4:19

       Totally failed.

6. 4:19 – 5:37

   Manipulative tears and overcompensating kindness: keep the frame anyway

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:19

      Well, and there... But there are also people that use tears to manipulate, and there are people that can whip up tears on a dime-

   2. SPSpeaker4:27

      Hm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher4:27

      ... to get what they want. But that all the more highlights the importance of that does not change how you are going to talk to them.

   4. SPSpeaker4:34

      Interesting. Yeah, I guess-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher4:35

      I'm listening. I'm here. You're good. As if it's not bothering you at all. I mean, just, it's just part of-

   6. SPSpeaker4:41

      Yeah

   7. JFJefferson Fisher4:41

      ... biology. You wouldn't do anything different if you scratch their eye. I mean, it's an itch that they scratched because their body told them it does.

   8. SPSpeaker4:48

      Hm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher4:48

      It's no different.

   10. SPSpeaker4:49

       Don't label it more.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher4:50

       Yeah. That you don't even... You don't say, "Oh, you need to blow your nose? Here we go." It's like, it's just part of what makes us a human.

   12. SPSpeaker4:57

       Yeah.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher4:57

       So.

   14. SPSpeaker4:58

       Well, I think the opposite can happen in the workplace. As opposed to being annoyed, you can almost overcompensate, um, with kindness in a way. "Oh, we don't need to talk about this. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, let's take a break. Oh, you're right."

   15. JFJefferson Fisher5:12

       Yeah.

   16. SPSpeaker5:13

       And, and that is sometimes, I think, when tears can be used, um, from a non-positive perspective too.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher5:19

       Yeah. Oh, yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker5:19

       But you have to control the frame as a boss, I think also.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher5:22

       Yeah.

   20. SPSpeaker5:22

       And say, like, "Okay," um, you know, exactly what you said, "I'm listening."

   21. JFJefferson Fisher5:26

       Yeah. Keep going. I'm listening.

   22. SPSpeaker5:26

       That is s- such a good way to do it if you do feel complete endearment, and also to say, "Hey, we're still gonna talk about this."

   23. JFJefferson Fisher5:33

       Exactly.

   24. SPSpeaker5:33

       "Whether you need time or not is okay-"

   25. JFJefferson Fisher5:35

       Yeah

   26. SPSpeaker5:35

       ..."but we gotta have this conversation."

7. 5:37 – 6:03

   Accountability with compassion: the “cop pulling someone over” analogy

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:37

      Yeah. It's like a cop with, uh... pulling somebody over who starts to cry thinking the crying's gonna get them out of it.

   2. SPSpeaker5:42

      Ah, yeah.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher5:42

      It's like you just fuck, "Nope. Yep. No, we're still, we're still gonna address what we're here to address. No, you can cry. It's all good."

   4. SPSpeaker5:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher5:48

      "I'm, I'm here. I'm c- I'm listening. No, we're still gonna, we're still gonna have to do X, Y, and Z." Uh, and it's, it's a way that I think people find they don't wanna... They can't feel like they're fully themselves in-

   6. SPSpeaker6:00

      Yeah

   7. JFJefferson Fisher6:00

      ... in that moment, so you're gonna have to, to let it go.

8. 6:03 – 6:24

   “High emotional metabolism”: a healthy way to contextualize emotions

   1. SPSpeaker6:03

      Yeah. Yeah, I did have one employee that had a great line, I thought. She was like, "I am super emotional, and I feel things a lot," she said, "but I have a high emotional metabolism."

   2. JFJefferson Fisher6:11

      Oh, I like that

   3. SPSpeaker6:12

      So she's like, "It might just... I'm having happy tears, or I'm having frustrated tears."

   4. JFJefferson Fisher6:17

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SPSpeaker6:17

      "But I'm actually... I got it out, and now I'm kinda like a dog shaking after, you know, getting attacked by something."

   6. JFJefferson Fisher6:22

      I think that's genius.

   7. SPSpeaker6:23

      Yeah, I thought it was a great line.

9. 6:24 – 7:15

   Lessons from depositions: slow down, give space, but still get the record

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:24

      I like that a whole lot. I have to do, a lot of the times in depositions-

   2. SPSpeaker6:27

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher6:27

      ... I'm asking questions of somebody, and it might be a very emotional... I mean, we're talking about a child, their child who died in the accident.

   4. SPSpeaker6:35

      Yes.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:35

      You see how that's very different. I'm going to be as slow as I can, even though there are questions I have to get on the record as part of the case-

   6. SPSpeaker6:43

      Yes

   7. JFJefferson Fisher6:44

      ... that I have to talk to them about. And there are... And th- there's one side, and then there are other people who know they're guilty, not from, like, a prosecution standpoint, but they know what they've done.

   8. SPSpeaker6:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher6:56

      And so out of guilt, out of not wanting to be here, or just overwhelmed, it's a very intense spotlight moment, they start to cry. And you never go, a- a- act exasperated about it. It's still, you're still gonna have to answer the question.

   10. SPSpeaker7:10

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher7:11

       I'm happy to give you all the space-

   12. SPSpeaker7:13

       Mm

   13. JFJefferson Fisher7:13

       ... that you need. But that's, that's the best way to handle it.

10. 7:15 – 9:03

    Smiling in communication: not a mandate, but warmth is a powerful tool

    1. SPSpeaker7:15

       How important is smiling in communication? You smile a lot-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher7:20

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker7:21

       ... even, like, across your delivery lines. Is that intentional? Is that who you are? And should other people be smiling more as they communicate?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher7:29

       Well, I'm definitely not telling anybody that they should smile more. I'm not walking into that one.

    5. SPSpeaker7:32

       Oh, yeah, that's... You're right. You're right. You're right. Good job.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher7:33

       Not walking into the, not walking into the, "You should smile more."

    7. SPSpeaker7:36

       Es-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher7:36

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker7:36

       ... especially if it's a woman. Come do it in the office.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher7:38

        Ooh.

    11. SPSpeaker7:38

        That's a great idea.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher7:39

        Yeah, I'm not saying that for nothing.

    13. SPSpeaker7:40

        [laughs]

    14. JFJefferson Fisher7:41

        Um, to the point of does the activity of smiling help or hurt you, it doesn't hurt.

    15. SPSpeaker7:47

        Mm.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher7:48

        Now, it has to be genuine.

    17. SPSpeaker7:50

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher7:50

        Like, for me, I always want to, as part of my life of just who I am, is I really enjoy, through my personality, giving warmth.

    19. SPSpeaker8:00

        Yeah.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher8:00

        I want them to feel very warm talking to me. In depositions when I need to get information from my siblings, when I'm calming them down, growing up, I mean, every step of the way, again, it's that calm energy. How can you feel very warm? When you're warm with someone, they want to be near you. They want to give you more information. They want to work with you. Even on the opposite side of the table, especially in negotiations-

    21. SPSpeaker8:25

        Yeah

    22. JFJefferson Fisher8:25

        ... especially in business deals, if I can make the person feel good, separate from the actual deal that is being made-

    23. SPSpeaker8:32

        Mm-hmm

    24. JFJefferson Fisher8:33

        ... the, the likelihood of the deal getting, being suc- successful just skyrockets. Too many times I've had it, let's say in the service industry, it's a waitress. It's somebody at the hotel counter. It's somebody who's behind whatever. If I can make them feel good and just give the warmth of my genuine personality, they want to help you. People have... They feel needed when they can be helpful. And when it is that sense of warmth

11. 9:03 – 11:22

    The “easy listening” analogy: people as music and emotional frequency

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:03

       and smiling, it's a whole lot, it's a whole lot better. That's part of the... You think of it like the music. If you could pick out some of the top five people that are influential to you, Cody-

    2. SPSpeaker9:15

       Mm-hmm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher9:16

       ... and then you put, like, a, a song with their name.

    4. SPSpeaker9:20

       Mm.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher9:20

       Think of, uh, the people that calm you down-

    6. SPSpeaker9:25

       Mm

    7. JFJefferson Fisher9:25

       ... and you can apply, like, a song or a band-

    8. SPSpeaker9:28

       Mm

    9. JFJefferson Fisher9:28

       ... of who they would be. Have you seen those pictures that match people to their dog?

    10. SPSpeaker9:32

        Oh, yeah.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher9:32

        And they, like-

    12. SPSpeaker9:33

        I think they call that Bowsers, right?

    13. JFJefferson Fisher9:34

        [laughs] Oh.

    14. SPSpeaker9:34

        Where the, they look-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher9:35

        It's... Yeah

    16. SPSpeaker9:35

        ... the person looks like the dog

    17. JFJefferson Fisher9:36

        ... they look very, they look very similar.

    18. SPSpeaker9:37

        Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher9:37

        And it, I, I always find that so funny.

    20. SPSpeaker9:39

        Yeah.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

        It's the same kinda concept. You pick the song that goes with that person.

    22. SPSpeaker9:43

        Mm.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher9:44

        And what you'll find is whoever's the easiest to listen to, if it's just always really, really loud and that frequency's high, and they're always complaining, and the, the registry's really high, you don't wanna listen to it, at least not for long.

    24. SPSpeaker9:57

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher9:58

        Uh, and the people that are... You know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a James Taylor kinda guy.

    26. SPSpeaker10:02

        [laughs]

    27. JFJefferson Fisher10:02

        I'm, I'm... That's how I was raised. I'm a Jim Croce. I'm a singer-songwriter era. That's how I was raised. And, you know, that, that's how I talk, and it's the easy listening, as Time Life would say. That's [laughs] that's, like, my-

    28. SPSpeaker10:16

        Yeah

    29. JFJefferson Fisher10:16

        ... my kind of classics.

    30. SPSpeaker10:17

        That is you. Uh-huh.
12. 11:22 – 12:56

    Likability vs. competence: why warmth sustains influence longer

    1. SPSpeaker11:22

       Yeah. We actually, when I first started filming content, when, uh, like maybe you guys are like me, but when I'm seriously thinking about something, and you're, like, deep in your mind, and I'm very, I have a very serious face. And so I make this intense face. And so they used to have to put this big, uh, this big sign behind me that just said, "Smile, bitch." [laughs]

    2. JFJefferson Fisher11:42

       [laughs] Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker11:42

       Because, 'cause I just don't.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher11:43

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker11:43

       And so, and, and I realized, though, that I think if you can choose almost between, in many instances, hyper-competence or hyper-likability, I might err on the side of likability more often than I ever thought.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher11:56

       Oh, yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker11:57

       And y-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher11:58

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker11:58

       ... this is a perfect example of why. But this is coming from a finance hardo like me-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher12:02

        Yeah. [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker12:03

        ... where I thought I would choose hyper-competence all the time.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher12:06

        Right.

    13. SPSpeaker12:06

        It's not the case, though.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher12:08

        It is extremely effective. It, it loses its steam faster. Than likability.

    15. SPSpeaker12:13

        Yeah.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher12:14

        You, you can do something because somebody's really efficient, you will do it more if you like them. And so it's, people will follow you longer.

    17. SPSpeaker12:21

        Uh-huh.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher12:21

        People will listen to you longer. People are willing to make shortcuts, exceptions. They will make a miracle for you if they like you.

    19. SPSpeaker12:29

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher12:30

        And that's not from a position of faking it. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying at all-

    21. SPSpeaker12:33

        Mm-hmm

    22. JFJefferson Fisher12:34

        ... I mean, you know good and well from our personalities, there's no faking this. People know that's not what, what-

    23. SPSpeaker12:40

        No, we'll figure you out real quick.

    24. JFJefferson Fisher12:41

        E- exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's just who we are. Now, e- anybody can call a spade a spade. So I, I'm not at all saying you have to smile or be warm. And if that's not you, don't, don't worry about it. You always have to be authentic and genuine to yourself.

    25. SPSpeaker12:55

        Mm-hmm.

13. 12:56 – 16:01

    Professional composure under pressure: courtroom example and resting face reality

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:56

       I would say f- also for me, from even the importance of in trial litigation, I might be sitting down and somebody else is questioning a witness.

    2. SPSpeaker13:04

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher13:06

       If the judge rules against me on something, maybe the attorney is going into something we agreed already before the trial strategy he can't go into. Now, if I object and go, "Objection, Your Honor, he can't... We, uh, you know, he can't talk about this," and that's a speaking objection, don't worry about it. If, if I said something, "Objection, Your Honor, hearsay," and the judge ruled against me for some reason, and I went, "Pfft," and I acted put out, now how do you think the jury is gonna react? They're gonna go, "Oh, there's something he doesn't want us to know." They're gonna say, "Oh, he's hiding something."

    4. SPSpeaker13:35

       Oh, he's pissed.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher13:35

       "Oh, he's not authentic. Oh, it's not real." Versus me acting like it just doesn't bother me.

    6. SPSpeaker13:41

       Mm.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher13:42

       And so most of the time, if you can just act pleasant and polite, if you have a hard time doing that, then that's, that's just gonna be a hard life.

    8. SPSpeaker13:49

       [laughs]

    9. JFJefferson Fisher13:49

       I, I, I find it in, in my opinion. There's a lot to be happy ab- about. But yeah, if you, if you can be... If you smile, it's never gonna hurt you. That, that doesn't mean it's like it, for some people, you constantly have to, have to remember, "Oh, yeah, I, my neutral face is not that likable." There's some that, like my sister, I love my sister. Sarah, uh, uh, if you're listening, I love you.

    10. SPSpeaker14:13

        [laughs]

    11. JFJefferson Fisher14:14

        That, um, when she's not smiling, you think she hates everybody.

    12. SPSpeaker14:20

        Yeah.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher14:20

        I mean, she has a-

    14. SPSpeaker14:21

        We all have that

    15. JFJefferson Fisher14:21

        ... very hard resting face.

    16. SPSpeaker14:23

        Yeah.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher14:24

        But when you talk, she's as pleasant and as happy as can be. So you just have to go with what's natural to you.

    18. SPSpeaker14:31

        Yeah. I think, you know, it's, a lot of what you talk about is you go with what's natural to you, but at least you can choose. If you know-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher14:37

        Yeah

    20. SPSpeaker14:37

        ... the tools on the table-

    21. JFJefferson Fisher14:39

        That's a good point

    22. SPSpeaker14:39

        ... then you could say, "Hey, listen, my face is naturally angry looking." [laughs]

    23. JFJefferson Fisher14:43

        Yeah. [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker14:44

        "And so I don't always feel like smiling, but I do it more because I know-"

    25. JFJefferson Fisher14:47

        Mm-hmm

    26. SPSpeaker14:47

        "... this tool on the table works in helping other people like me. And if they like me, then I might get more of the life that I want because I might be able to walk a little lighter on the world."

    27. JFJefferson Fisher14:55

        Yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker14:55

        My husband has the same thing. He has, like, a very square jaw.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher14:58

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SPSpeaker14:58

        He has kind of an intense face, and he will just have people give him a harder time than me, for whatever reason. And a lot of times I joke that it's because he looks so serious, and I think there's something really to this. And so if you can steal these hacks-

Episode duration: 16:01