Why it's Important to Get Communication Right | Jefferson Fisher

Speaker 0:00 Why is it so important that people get communication right? Like, what do you think-

Jefferson Fisher 0:04 Yeah

Speaker 0:04 ... what impact it will have on people's lives? Like, for the people that are listening, why should they care so much about their communication?

Jefferson Fisher 0:11 Communication is the thing that connects, uh, everything that's has happened and will happen.

Speaker 0:17 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 0:17 It's impossible not to communicate-

Speaker 0:19 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 0:19 ... unless you're not alive.

Speaker 0:20 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 0:21 If there's communication, that's one thing, but when you don't communicate, even when there's silence, you're still communicating-

Speaker 0:27 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 0:28 ... something. If I don't respond to your text in five minutes, that says something.

Speaker 0:32 Mm-hmm. Rude.

Jefferson Fisher 0:33 If I, if I don't respond to your text in five days-

Speaker 0:35 It means you don't like me at all

Jefferson Fisher 0:36 ... it says, it says something else.

Speaker 0:37 [laughs] True. That's true.

Jefferson Fisher 0:38 And, and so it, th- like in a silence, in a pause, it might be the absence of words, but it's not the absence of communication. E- everything that's led you to this point has happened from your, your words.

Speaker 0:50 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 0:51 In, in, in many ways it is very true that what you say is who you are, Krista. I mean, it's just, it's just what it is.

Speaker 0:58 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 0:58 It's, for the vast majority of your life, people will only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth.

Speaker 1:05 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:05 What you say. Like, if somebody says something and you just meet them for the first time and they leave, right away you're gonna go, "I, I like that person."

Speaker 1:13 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:13 What you meant is they said nice things.

Speaker 1:16 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 1:16 Or if you don't like somebody's attitude and they're rude, you're not gonna like that person.

Speaker 1:19 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:19 So it's really the power of your words, or even go with conflict.

Speaker 1:22 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:23 Like, how you led to who you found now, most likely if you had ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, or whatever, there was a conflict-

Speaker 1:33 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 1:33 ... and how that conflict was handled led to the next event.

Speaker 1:36 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:36 How you left that job because there was a conflict and you got let go or you left led you to the next thing.

Speaker 1:42 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:42 So it's communication i- is, um, in everything that you do.

Speaker 1:48 Mm-hmm. With relationships, if we were to speak on that, what I've found in my relationships is, like, yeah, it's so interesting you said it was so much the unsaid because it was [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 2:00 Mm.

Speaker 2:00 ... so much more unsaid than said. And it was crazy to witness, 'cause I think my parents would do this too. My parents got divorced. They did their best, but it's like they would be having whole dialogues in their heads that would not be verbalized into words-

Jefferson Fisher 2:14 Yeah

Speaker 2:14 ... or communicated into words.

Jefferson Fisher 2:15 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:15 What's happening there when people, even with their bosses or friends, where it's just the mind is really going and the mind has a lot to say, but they're unable to bring it to words?

Jefferson Fisher 2:25 Well, a lot of the problem is they're waiting till they're talking to figure out what they want to say.

Speaker 2:32 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:32 So they haven't done the work ahead of time. All they've done is just expect it to go how it's gone in their head.

Speaker 2:39 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 2:39 How they... he said it in the shower, how they said it... I mean, they make great points when they're driving in their car. But when it comes to [laughs] meeting that person face to face, they can't, they can't do anything because they haven't, they haven't laid that groundwork.

Speaker 2:51 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:52 Or let's say you and I come home after a long day. You've been thinking about something you need to talk to me about, and you've been thinking about it for eight hours. Eight hours you've been stewing on it.

Speaker 3:04 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 3:04 Are you-

Speaker 3:04 Locked into my job-

Jefferson Fisher 3:05 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah

Speaker 3:06 ... and started thinking. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 3:07 You, it, you know everything about what you wanna talk about. Meanwhile, I get home and you're like, "Hey, can I talk to you for a second?" Uh, and then you just dump, uh, eight hours worth of thought and emotion that's important to you.

Speaker 3:19 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 3:20 I'm catching a cold.

Speaker 3:21 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 3:22 You know, I, I'm not ready. Where do you d- where is this coming from? And all of a sudden you expect me to carry the same importance and weight to it as you have for the last eight hours when I'm... I, I, I'm not ready for this. And so you, you have 100% of a subject you wanna talk about when I have 20% of the bandwidth. It's just gonna, it's gonna go south every time.

Speaker 3:43 How would you as a couple then, so... 'Cause that's a situation that happens with people.

Jefferson Fisher 3:47 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:47 What would you say... So let's talk about for her.

Jefferson Fisher 3:50 Yeah.

Speaker 3:50 You know, if, if you are stewing all day, what's the strategy that she can take, and what is the strategy that the man, if we're saying this is a man, can take in that situation?

Jefferson Fisher 3:58 Yeah. One, you want, always wanna make sure you have dedicated time for the important conversations.

Speaker 4:04 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 4:04 I'm not talking about, like, just, "Hey, how was your day?" "It was good."

Speaker 4:06 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 4:06 The little bitty things. That's, that's fine. The big major conversations need to have uninterrupted, dedicated time that you have set aside for it. Even if that pers- y'all have five minutes to talk about it in that timeframe, it's, it's still better to push it off for another five minutes just so you both can ready yourself for what you're going to talk about.

Speaker 4:28 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 4:28 "Hey, when, when you get about 10 minutes here in a little bit, just let me know." It's much better to prepare them. So if you're the, let's say from the woman's standpoint, uh, in our scenario-

Speaker 4:37 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 4:38 ... you wanna use a frame. And how I teach frames is that you tell them what you wanna talk about, how you wanna feel after-

Speaker 4:46 Mm. I love that

Jefferson Fisher 4:47 ... the conversation is over. And that's the big part, telling them how you wanna feel after the conversation. And three, you get their buy-in to it. And it sounds like this. Let's say, uh, we get home and you've already texted me in the day, "Hey, I, can we spend 10 minutes for a conversation that I wanna talk about later?" Perfect. So we're in that time. You're gonna start with, "Hey, Jefferson, I, I'd like to talk with you about something you said last, last Tuesday."

Speaker 5:12 You said the name, so that means trouble. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 5:14 Yeah. It... Well, you know what I mean. Let's just say-

Speaker 5:17 Hey, babe

Jefferson Fisher 5:17 ... Hey, babe.

Speaker 5:17 Yeah. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 5:18 Hey, babe. Bae. Whatever it is. Uh, hey, love. And I'd like to talk with you about, you know, what, what happened last night, and I, I wanna walk away with the conversation, I wanna walk away from the conversation, or I wanna walk away with, I w- I want to end the conversation feeling like X, Y, and Z. So it could be as simple as even, "I'm not asking you to fix anything."

Speaker 5:40 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 5:40 "I just need you to hear me out," or, "I just want to say this. I just need to feel understood. I don't need you to do anything with it." Now, telling me that ahead of time, super helpful. Otherwise-

Speaker 5:50 Super helpful

Jefferson Fisher 5:50 ... I'm looking how to fix it the entire time.

Speaker 5:52 Totally.

Jefferson Fisher 5:53 Then the, the third step is you're just getting their buy-in, and that's-

Speaker 5:56 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 5:56 ... sounds as simple as, "That sound good? Can we do that? Is that, are you willing to do that?" And now-

Speaker 6:01 Getting a yes before you start.

Jefferson Fisher 6:02 Yeah.

Speaker 6:02 That's a good one.

Jefferson Fisher 6:02 Because now it's like I've signed an invisible contract. Now I'm in it with you, and I don't wanna break my word 'cause I've agreed to it. The key is, for both people- You stay within that subject. If you don't, if you break out of that-

Speaker 6:16 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 6:16 ... and you, you go, "You know what? Actually," and you wanna bring up-

Speaker 6:19 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 6:20 ... five other different things, well, now you've busted out of your frame.

Speaker 6:23 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:23 Now you've... Now everything is cut loose.

Speaker 6:25 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:26 Instead, you wanna try and dial in just on that one issue. For the guy's perspective, one big part of it is conversations go south when somebody forces you to have a conversation you're not ready for.

Speaker 6:37 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:37 So if I need to say, "I can tell I'm not ready for this con- I do wanna talk about this. I can tell right now I'm not ready for a good conversation. I'm not ready for this conversation."

Speaker 6:45 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 6:45 "I wanna talk about it. I, I... Let me... Can we do it after dinner?"

Speaker 6:49 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:50 "Give me, give me some time. I've..." You ne- you have to communicate that you're not ready.

Speaker 6:53 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:54 'Cause when people say, "Hey, you have five minutes?" What they really mean is, "Hey, do you have about 45 minutes for me-

Speaker 6:57 Exactly

Jefferson Fisher 6:58 ... to tell you a story that could really waste your time?"

Speaker 7:00 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:00 Means nothing. Like, if somebody says, "Hey, you got a second?" It depends. Like, it's like, do you have a second to what?

Speaker 7:06 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:06 Tell me you like my shoes?

Speaker 7:07 Are you lying? [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:07 Or, or... Yeah. Are you about to just come in and, and wreck my entire day?

Speaker 7:12 Yeah. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:12 Uh, like, that's... Can you just let me know? Can we put a-

Speaker 7:14 Yeah, honestly. Let's do the scale.

Jefferson Fisher 7:15 Yeah. I'm gonna send you this feedback form.

Speaker 7:17 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:17 So you can go ahead and let me know how, [laughs] how that's gonna go.

Speaker 7:20 I really like the, um... I really like that frame for women to think about, especially with men.

Jefferson Fisher 7:24 Mm.

Speaker 7:25 Because a lot of men are gonna be, "What can I fix? What can I do?"

Jefferson Fisher 7:28 Right.

Speaker 7:28 So expressing the feeling that you're wanting to have, and I also think it's helpful 'cause it gives women the clarity to really think about it. It's like, "Okay. W- how do I wanna feel?" 'Cause I think if you're in the reactive mode of frustration or anger-

Jefferson Fisher 7:40 Yes

Speaker 7:40 ... you could be like, "I wanna feel fucking..."

Jefferson Fisher 7:42 Right. Yeah. You wanna get after it.

Speaker 7:43 I want... Yeah. I wanna feel.

Jefferson Fisher 7:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:45 I wanna square up. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:45 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:47 I wanna punch you in the face. So it's like, okay, how can I regulate in my system? Like, coming out of the fight or flight-

Jefferson Fisher 7:53 Mm-hmm

Speaker 7:53 ... and I think this is a lot of... I wanna talk about that, too, like, the relationship to the body.

Jefferson Fisher 7:58 Yes.

Speaker 7:59 Because so much of it is you getting triggered and then you losing the plot or-

Jefferson Fisher 8:03 Right

Speaker 8:04 ... los- you know what I mean? Like, the, this... Where it's like... 'Cause I was even thinking, for a lot of previous relationships I was in, if I was like, "Hey, do you have, like, 10 minutes?" It would be like fucking terrifying.

Jefferson Fisher 8:15 [laughs]

Speaker 8:15 And it was probably me creating the situation that made-

Jefferson Fisher 8:17 Yeah

Speaker 8:17 ... the terror.

Jefferson Fisher 8:18 Yeah.

Speaker 8:18 But, like, I, I think a lot of people get really nervous with, like, the request for time 'cause they think they're in trouble.

Jefferson Fisher 8:24 Yeah.

Speaker 8:24 Do you find that?

Jefferson Fisher 8:25 Oh, it... Yeah. It's in... And let me tell you why that happens.

Speaker 8:29 Why? [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 8:29 All right? Because it is, it is telling them that there is something to fear that is unknown.

Speaker 8:36 Yeah. It's-

Jefferson Fisher 8:36 One of the biggest trug- triggers is the fear of the unknown.

Speaker 8:38 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 8:39 Now, let's say you and I are working and I text you, "I need to talk to you," period, or worse, "We need to talk"-

Speaker 8:46 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 8:47 ... period. You're going to think... You wanna call me immediately. "What, what happened? What's going on? Oh my gosh."

Speaker 8:51 Yes.

Jefferson Fisher 8:51 Something... I mean, it is... Or, "Oh, my... It, it's over. He, he hates me."

Speaker 8:56 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 8:56 "Everything's gone. I've done something wrong." It's all fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.

Speaker 8:59 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 8:59 And that anxiety takes over. That's what happens.

Speaker 9:03 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:03 And that's why you're saying it's, it feels terrifying for that other person, because constantly we're looking to see that fight or flight. Is there a bear in the bush?

Speaker 9:12 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:12 Like, what's gonna come out to get me?

Speaker 9:14 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:15 So our body is already doing that. What I talk about in my book is, like, these three main pillars of say it with control, say it with confidence, say it to connect. And part of saying it-

Speaker 9:24 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 9:24 ... with control is what you just lined out is with your body. So our body is very much tied to how we communicate.

Speaker 9:33 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:33 When you hear somebody yell, what they're trying to do is scare you away.

Speaker 9:39 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:39 It's the fight or flight.

Speaker 9:40 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:40 When somebody says a hurtful word or a word that is cutting, well, it's 'cause they're trying to physically-

Speaker 9:46 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 9:46 ... make you go away.

Speaker 9:47 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:48 That is a threat. Maybe you said something that undermined me, and my body goes, "Hey, Jefferson, I don't..."

Speaker 9:53 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 9:53 "Hey, so I didn't like that, uh, that tone that I heard."

Speaker 9:56 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 9:56 "Hey, so I didn't like that." Uh, and all of a sudden I'm gonna get defensive 'cause my body's saying, "Uh, I don't like this threat."

Speaker 10:01 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 10:01 "I feel triggered by this."

Speaker 10:03 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 10:03 And there's lots of different ways to feel triggered. Knowing your triggers are ve- is very important.

Speaker 10:08 Mm, that's a good one.

Jefferson Fisher 10:09 But when that happens, your body naturally goes into it. Like, right that, that moment between a conversation and an argument.

Speaker 10:18 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:18 Like, when there's just enough friction that it starts to ignite and things rub you the wrong way, it, uh, it kind of just takes, it takes over. That's why your, your pupils will dilate-

Speaker 10:30 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 10:30 ... so you're focused in. Your nostrils will flare to, like, get you more oxygen. You feel ner- Like, you shake.

Speaker 10:36 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 10:36 You're, you get tense.

Speaker 10:37 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:37 'Cause your body's just r- physically ready to go.

Speaker 10:40 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:40 Or on the, like, fight or flight-

Speaker 10:43 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 10:44 ... you're wanting to hang up the phone. You wanna leave the room.

Speaker 10:47 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:47 You want to get out of he- I... Who, who... How many times have you said, "I can't do this"?

Speaker 10:51 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:51 "I'm not gonna do this right now."

Speaker 10:52 Oh my God. What do you mean?

Jefferson Fisher 10:52 And you're re- and you're ready to go. It is your fight or flight saying, "Get out of there."

Speaker 10:56 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 10:57 And that's-

Speaker 10:58 I'm done

Jefferson Fisher 10:58 ... it's... Yeah, exactly. And it's just ti- it's-

Speaker 11:00 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 11:00 ... your communication is tied to how your body feels.

Speaker 11:03 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 11:03 And so you have to... There are steps that you can use to regulate yourself so that does not happen.

Speaker 11:08 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I realized how detrimental that was in past relationships, was my, "I'm done."

Jefferson Fisher 11:14 "I'm so done."

Speaker 11:14 Yeah. I'm done.

Jefferson Fisher 11:15 "I can't."

Speaker 11:15 We're done.

Jefferson Fisher 11:16 Yeah.

Speaker 11:16 It's like after-

Jefferson Fisher 11:17 I literally cannot

Speaker 11:18 ... after 10 years of that, it's like-

Jefferson Fisher 11:19 Yeah

Speaker 11:19 ... please function. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 11:20 Yeah.

Speaker 11:20 I don't believe you-

Jefferson Fisher 11:21 Right

Speaker 11:22 ... anymore. Um, but something I wanna just talk about and then I wanna talk more about the control, um-

Jefferson Fisher 11:27 All right. Yeah

Speaker 11:28 ... those, the three, was related to the first part where we were talking about that conversation between, like, a man and woman.

Jefferson Fisher 11:34 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11:34 And say she has something she wants to talk about, preparing him to get home.

Jefferson Fisher 11:38 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11:38 I think something that's so important that you mentioned that I think is a game changer for relationships, and so I think women need to pay attention to do, is not, um, loading everything on. So it's like we're gonna talk about one thing.

Jefferson Fisher 11:51 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11:52 And, and you have to only talk about one thing.

Jefferson Fisher 11:55 Yeah.

Speaker 11:55 You can't... This is me talking to my previous self. You can't be like, "Okay, and then this feels good, and then I'm gonna talk about this thing and this thing and this thing." Like, focusing on the one thing is such an important aspect of communication in relationships.

Jefferson Fisher 12:07 Yes. Um, I like to say if you're talking about everything, you're talking about nothing.

Speaker 12:11 So true.

Jefferson Fisher 12:12 And, and put it e- even in a business context.

Speaker 12:14 Yeah. That's a good one.

Jefferson Fisher 12:15 You, you have that meeting and your boss says, "All right, everybody, we got a lot to talk about," and you already know right away, you're rolling your eyes going, "This could've been an email." Uh-

Speaker 12:22 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 12:22 ... they have... When you're talking about too many things, nobody feels like it was a good, productive meeting. Same thing in the intimate conversation. When you're just lobbing issue after issue after issue, it's, uh, especially on the other person, it's, one, it wears them down, two, they're not going to retain ... any of it. It's just, it's much better to go very deep on one singular issue.

Speaker 12:44 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 12:44 The most important thing on that frame is telling them how you want to feel or how you want to walk away. If it's, "I want to walk away with this conversation with us having alignment or being on the same page-

Speaker 12:53 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 12:53 ... or just you hearing me out, not needing to fix it," any way that you can give them a heads-up of how you want to end. Because so many times we get in that conversation and you're going, at least from, let's say-

Speaker 13:04 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 13:04 ... in this scenario, the guy's perspective, "What, what do you want? What's your point?"

Speaker 13:07 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 13:08 And so what do I say? I start to jump in and go, "Oh, oh, so you want me to do this?" You go, "No, no, no. No, that's not what... That's not it." You go, "Oh, okay." So I'm still listening.

Speaker 13:16 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:16 And then later on I go, "Oh, so you want me to do this?" And you go, "No, no, no, you're not hearing me." I'm like, "I'm listening."

Speaker 13:21 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:21 And you go... It's because at that point in time you d- you truly don't know how to land the plane.

Speaker 13:25 Totally. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:26 You, you just-

Speaker 13:27 Amen

Jefferson Fisher 13:27 ... you, you don't know.

Speaker 13:28 It's so crazy.

Jefferson Fisher 13:29 [laughs]

Speaker 13:30 Sometimes it's like if you have... As a woman, you, like, have been in it all day, and then you finally have an audience, it's like you don't want it to go away. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13:37 So you're just like-

Jefferson Fisher 13:38 I just need you to sit.

Speaker 13:39 Yeah. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:40 Yeah. And yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13:41 You're like, "I'll just keep the microphones running, please." [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:43 Ex- Yeah. Yeah. I just need you to, just need you to sit.

Speaker 13:46 Yeah. Actually, now that I see you're tuning to me, I just want to rip. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:49 Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but that's, that's what happens because you, you're trying to... You just get in and, and you wait until you're talking to figure out what you want to say. And I... what-

Speaker 13:58 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 13:58 ... you'll hear is the person go, "No, no, no, that, that's, uh... No, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait." And they start continuing to talk more, and you're just thinking, "What's-

Speaker 14:05 I know

Jefferson Fisher 14:05 ... what's your point? What do you need from me?"

Speaker 14:07 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 14:07 And now, now you're going, "Oh, you don't even care. Like, you, you weren't even listening to me."

Speaker 14:11 Totally. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 14:11 And you're like, "What are you, what are you talking about?" If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there