Why it's Important to Get Communication Right | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 1:05

   Communication is unavoidable: words, silence, and what they signal

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      Why is it so important that people get communication right? Like, what do you think-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:04

      Yeah

   3. SPSpeaker0:04

      ... what impact it will have on people's lives? Like, for the people that are listening, why should they care so much about their communication?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:11

      Communication is the thing that connects, uh, everything that's has happened and will happen.

   5. SPSpeaker0:17

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher0:17

      It's impossible not to communicate-

   7. SPSpeaker0:19

      Mm-hmm

   8. JFJefferson Fisher0:19

      ... unless you're not alive.

   9. SPSpeaker0:20

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher0:21

       If there's communication, that's one thing, but when you don't communicate, even when there's silence, you're still communicating-

   11. SPSpeaker0:27

       Yeah

   12. JFJefferson Fisher0:28

       ... something. If I don't respond to your text in five minutes, that says something.

   13. SPSpeaker0:32

       Mm-hmm. Rude.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher0:33

       If I, if I don't respond to your text in five days-

   15. SPSpeaker0:35

       It means you don't like me at all

   16. JFJefferson Fisher0:36

       ... it says, it says something else.

   17. SPSpeaker0:37

       [laughs] True. That's true.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher0:38

       And, and so it, th- like in a silence, in a pause, it might be the absence of words, but it's not the absence of communication. E- everything that's led you to this point has happened from your, your words.

   19. SPSpeaker0:50

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher0:51

       In, in, in many ways it is very true that what you say is who you are, Krista. I mean, it's just, it's just what it is.

   21. SPSpeaker0:58

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher0:58

       It's, for the vast majority of your life, people will only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth.

   23. SPSpeaker1:05

       Mm-hmm.

2. 1:05 – 1:48

   How words shape reputation, first impressions, and conflict outcomes

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:05

      What you say. Like, if somebody says something and you just meet them for the first time and they leave, right away you're gonna go, "I, I like that person."

   2. SPSpeaker1:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:13

      What you meant is they said nice things.

   4. SPSpeaker1:16

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:16

      Or if you don't like somebody's attitude and they're rude, you're not gonna like that person.

   6. SPSpeaker1:19

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher1:19

      So it's really the power of your words, or even go with conflict.

   8. SPSpeaker1:22

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher1:23

      Like, how you led to who you found now, most likely if you had ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, or whatever, there was a conflict-

   10. SPSpeaker1:33

       Mm-hmm

   11. JFJefferson Fisher1:33

       ... and how that conflict was handled led to the next event.

   12. SPSpeaker1:36

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher1:36

       How you left that job because there was a conflict and you got let go or you left led you to the next thing.

   14. SPSpeaker1:42

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher1:42

       So it's communication i- is, um, in everything that you do.

3. 1:48 – 2:52

   Why people keep it in their head: unspoken dialogue and lack of prep

   1. SPSpeaker1:48

      Mm-hmm. With relationships, if we were to speak on that, what I've found in my relationships is, like, yeah, it's so interesting you said it was so much the unsaid because it was [laughs]

   2. JFJefferson Fisher2:00

      Mm.

   3. SPSpeaker2:00

      ... so much more unsaid than said. And it was crazy to witness, 'cause I think my parents would do this too. My parents got divorced. They did their best, but it's like they would be having whole dialogues in their heads that would not be verbalized into words-

   4. JFJefferson Fisher2:14

      Yeah

   5. SPSpeaker2:14

      ... or communicated into words.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher2:15

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SPSpeaker2:15

      What's happening there when people, even with their bosses or friends, where it's just the mind is really going and the mind has a lot to say, but they're unable to bring it to words?

   8. JFJefferson Fisher2:25

      Well, a lot of the problem is they're waiting till they're talking to figure out what they want to say.

   9. SPSpeaker2:32

      Mm.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher2:32

       So they haven't done the work ahead of time. All they've done is just expect it to go how it's gone in their head.

   11. SPSpeaker2:39

       [laughs]

   12. JFJefferson Fisher2:39

       How they... he said it in the shower, how they said it... I mean, they make great points when they're driving in their car. But when it comes to [laughs] meeting that person face to face, they can't, they can't do anything because they haven't, they haven't laid that groundwork.

   13. SPSpeaker2:51

       Mm.

4. 2:52 – 3:58

   The 'bandwidth mismatch' problem: dumping eight hours onto a partner

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:52

      Or let's say you and I come home after a long day. You've been thinking about something you need to talk to me about, and you've been thinking about it for eight hours. Eight hours you've been stewing on it.

   2. SPSpeaker3:04

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:04

      Are you-

   4. SPSpeaker3:04

      Locked into my job-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher3:05

      Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah

   6. SPSpeaker3:06

      ... and started thinking. [laughs]

   7. JFJefferson Fisher3:07

      You, it, you know everything about what you wanna talk about. Meanwhile, I get home and you're like, "Hey, can I talk to you for a second?" Uh, and then you just dump, uh, eight hours worth of thought and emotion that's important to you.

   8. SPSpeaker3:19

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher3:20

      I'm catching a cold.

   10. SPSpeaker3:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher3:22

       You know, I, I'm not ready. Where do you d- where is this coming from? And all of a sudden you expect me to carry the same importance and weight to it as you have for the last eight hours when I'm... I, I, I'm not ready for this. And so you, you have 100% of a subject you wanna talk about when I have 20% of the bandwidth. It's just gonna, it's gonna go south every time.

   12. SPSpeaker3:43

       How would you as a couple then, so... 'Cause that's a situation that happens with people.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher3:47

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker3:47

       What would you say... So let's talk about for her.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher3:50

       Yeah.

   16. SPSpeaker3:50

       You know, if, if you are stewing all day, what's the strategy that she can take, and what is the strategy that the man, if we're saying this is a man, can take in that situation?

5. 3:58 – 4:28

   Set dedicated time for big talks (and prepare the other person)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:58

      Yeah. One, you want, always wanna make sure you have dedicated time for the important conversations.

   2. SPSpeaker4:04

      Mm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher4:04

      I'm not talking about, like, just, "Hey, how was your day?" "It was good."

   4. SPSpeaker4:06

      Mm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher4:06

      The little bitty things. That's, that's fine. The big major conversations need to have uninterrupted, dedicated time that you have set aside for it. Even if that pers- y'all have five minutes to talk about it in that timeframe, it's, it's still better to push it off for another five minutes just so you both can ready yourself for what you're going to talk about.

   6. SPSpeaker4:28

      Mm-hmm.

6. 4:28 – 6:02

   The 3-step conversation frame: topic, desired ending feeling, and buy-in

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:28

      "Hey, when, when you get about 10 minutes here in a little bit, just let me know." It's much better to prepare them. So if you're the, let's say from the woman's standpoint, uh, in our scenario-

   2. SPSpeaker4:37

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher4:38

      ... you wanna use a frame. And how I teach frames is that you tell them what you wanna talk about, how you wanna feel after-

   4. SPSpeaker4:46

      Mm. I love that

   5. JFJefferson Fisher4:47

      ... the conversation is over. And that's the big part, telling them how you wanna feel after the conversation. And three, you get their buy-in to it. And it sounds like this. Let's say, uh, we get home and you've already texted me in the day, "Hey, I, can we spend 10 minutes for a conversation that I wanna talk about later?" Perfect. So we're in that time. You're gonna start with, "Hey, Jefferson, I, I'd like to talk with you about something you said last, last Tuesday."

   6. SPSpeaker5:12

      You said the name, so that means trouble. [laughs]

   7. JFJefferson Fisher5:14

      Yeah. It... Well, you know what I mean. Let's just say-

   8. SPSpeaker5:17

      Hey, babe

   9. JFJefferson Fisher5:17

      ... Hey, babe.

   10. SPSpeaker5:17

       Yeah. [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher5:18

       Hey, babe. Bae. Whatever it is. Uh, hey, love. And I'd like to talk with you about, you know, what, what happened last night, and I, I wanna walk away with the conversation, I wanna walk away from the conversation, or I wanna walk away with, I w- I want to end the conversation feeling like X, Y, and Z. So it could be as simple as even, "I'm not asking you to fix anything."

   12. SPSpeaker5:40

       Yeah.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher5:40

       "I just need you to hear me out," or, "I just want to say this. I just need to feel understood. I don't need you to do anything with it." Now, telling me that ahead of time, super helpful. Otherwise-

   14. SPSpeaker5:50

       Super helpful

   15. JFJefferson Fisher5:50

       ... I'm looking how to fix it the entire time.

   16. SPSpeaker5:52

       Totally.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher5:53

       Then the, the third step is you're just getting their buy-in, and that's-

   18. SPSpeaker5:56

       Mm

   19. JFJefferson Fisher5:56

       ... sounds as simple as, "That sound good? Can we do that? Is that, are you willing to do that?" And now-

   20. SPSpeaker6:01

       Getting a yes before you start.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher6:02

       Yeah.

   22. SPSpeaker6:02

       That's a good one.

7. 6:02 – 6:26

   Stay on one issue: breaking the frame breaks the conversation

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:02

      Because now it's like I've signed an invisible contract. Now I'm in it with you, and I don't wanna break my word 'cause I've agreed to it. The key is, for both people- You stay within that subject. If you don't, if you break out of that-

   2. SPSpeaker6:16

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher6:16

      ... and you, you go, "You know what? Actually," and you wanna bring up-

   4. SPSpeaker6:19

      Mm-hmm

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:20

      ... five other different things, well, now you've busted out of your frame.

   6. SPSpeaker6:23

      Mm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher6:23

      Now you've... Now everything is cut loose.

   8. SPSpeaker6:25

      Mm.

8. 6:26 – 8:18

   The listener’s role: say when you’re not ready and propose a time

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:26

      Instead, you wanna try and dial in just on that one issue. For the guy's perspective, one big part of it is conversations go south when somebody forces you to have a conversation you're not ready for.

   2. SPSpeaker6:37

      Mm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher6:37

      So if I need to say, "I can tell I'm not ready for this con- I do wanna talk about this. I can tell right now I'm not ready for a good conversation. I'm not ready for this conversation."

   4. SPSpeaker6:45

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:45

      "I wanna talk about it. I, I... Let me... Can we do it after dinner?"

   6. SPSpeaker6:49

      Mm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher6:50

      "Give me, give me some time. I've..." You ne- you have to communicate that you're not ready.

   8. SPSpeaker6:53

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher6:54

      'Cause when people say, "Hey, you have five minutes?" What they really mean is, "Hey, do you have about 45 minutes for me-

   10. SPSpeaker6:57

       Exactly

   11. JFJefferson Fisher6:58

       ... to tell you a story that could really waste your time?"

   12. SPSpeaker7:00

       [laughs]

   13. JFJefferson Fisher7:00

       Means nothing. Like, if somebody says, "Hey, you got a second?" It depends. Like, it's like, do you have a second to what?

   14. SPSpeaker7:06

       [laughs]

   15. JFJefferson Fisher7:06

       Tell me you like my shoes?

   16. SPSpeaker7:07

       Are you lying? [laughs]

   17. JFJefferson Fisher7:07

       Or, or... Yeah. Are you about to just come in and, and wreck my entire day?

   18. SPSpeaker7:12

       Yeah. [laughs]

   19. JFJefferson Fisher7:12

       Uh, like, that's... Can you just let me know? Can we put a-

   20. SPSpeaker7:14

       Yeah, honestly. Let's do the scale.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher7:15

       Yeah. I'm gonna send you this feedback form.

   22. SPSpeaker7:17

       [laughs]

   23. JFJefferson Fisher7:17

       So you can go ahead and let me know how, [laughs] how that's gonna go.

   24. SPSpeaker7:20

       I really like the, um... I really like that frame for women to think about, especially with men.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher7:24

       Mm.

   26. SPSpeaker7:25

       Because a lot of men are gonna be, "What can I fix? What can I do?"

   27. JFJefferson Fisher7:28

       Right.

   28. SPSpeaker7:28

       So expressing the feeling that you're wanting to have, and I also think it's helpful 'cause it gives women the clarity to really think about it. It's like, "Okay. W- how do I wanna feel?" 'Cause I think if you're in the reactive mode of frustration or anger-

   29. JFJefferson Fisher7:40

       Yes

   30. SPSpeaker7:40

       ... you could be like, "I wanna feel fucking..."
9. 8:18 – 9:15

   Why 'We need to talk' triggers panic: fear of the unknown

   1. SPSpeaker8:18

      But, like, I, I think a lot of people get really nervous with, like, the request for time 'cause they think they're in trouble.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher8:24

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker8:24

      Do you find that?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher8:25

      Oh, it... Yeah. It's in... And let me tell you why that happens.

   5. SPSpeaker8:29

      Why? [laughs]

   6. JFJefferson Fisher8:29

      All right? Because it is, it is telling them that there is something to fear that is unknown.

   7. SPSpeaker8:36

      Yeah. It's-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher8:36

      One of the biggest trug- triggers is the fear of the unknown.

   9. SPSpeaker8:38

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher8:39

       Now, let's say you and I are working and I text you, "I need to talk to you," period, or worse, "We need to talk"-

   11. SPSpeaker8:46

       Mm-hmm

   12. JFJefferson Fisher8:47

       ... period. You're going to think... You wanna call me immediately. "What, what happened? What's going on? Oh my gosh."

   13. SPSpeaker8:51

       Yes.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher8:51

       Something... I mean, it is... Or, "Oh, my... It, it's over. He, he hates me."

   15. SPSpeaker8:56

       Yeah.

   16. JFJefferson Fisher8:56

       "Everything's gone. I've done something wrong." It's all fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.

   17. SPSpeaker8:59

       Yeah.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher8:59

       And that anxiety takes over. That's what happens.

   19. SPSpeaker9:03

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JFJefferson Fisher9:03

       And that's why you're saying it's, it feels terrifying for that other person, because constantly we're looking to see that fight or flight. Is there a bear in the bush?

   21. SPSpeaker9:12

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher9:12

       Like, what's gonna come out to get me?

   23. SPSpeaker9:14

       Mm-hmm.

10. 9:15 – 10:09

    Body and communication: fight/flight shows up as yelling, cutting words, defensiveness

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:15

       So our body is already doing that. What I talk about in my book is, like, these three main pillars of say it with control, say it with confidence, say it to connect. And part of saying it-

    2. SPSpeaker9:24

       Mm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher9:24

       ... with control is what you just lined out is with your body. So our body is very much tied to how we communicate.

    4. SPSpeaker9:33

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher9:33

       When you hear somebody yell, what they're trying to do is scare you away.

    6. SPSpeaker9:39

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

       It's the fight or flight.

    8. SPSpeaker9:40

       Mm.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher9:40

       When somebody says a hurtful word or a word that is cutting, well, it's 'cause they're trying to physically-

    10. SPSpeaker9:46

        Mm

    11. JFJefferson Fisher9:46

        ... make you go away.

    12. SPSpeaker9:47

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher9:48

        That is a threat. Maybe you said something that undermined me, and my body goes, "Hey, Jefferson, I don't..."

    14. SPSpeaker9:53

        [laughs]

    15. JFJefferson Fisher9:53

        "Hey, so I didn't like that, uh, that tone that I heard."

    16. SPSpeaker9:56

        Yeah.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher9:56

        "Hey, so I didn't like that." Uh, and all of a sudden I'm gonna get defensive 'cause my body's saying, "Uh, I don't like this threat."

    18. SPSpeaker10:01

        Yeah.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher10:01

        "I feel triggered by this."

    20. SPSpeaker10:03

        Yeah.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher10:03

        And there's lots of different ways to feel triggered. Knowing your triggers are ve- is very important.

    22. SPSpeaker10:08

        Mm, that's a good one.

11. 10:09 – 11:08

    Recognizing escalation cues and the 'argument ignition' moment

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:09

       But when that happens, your body naturally goes into it. Like, right that, that moment between a conversation and an argument.

    2. SPSpeaker10:18

       Mm.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher10:18

       Like, when there's just enough friction that it starts to ignite and things rub you the wrong way, it, uh, it kind of just takes, it takes over. That's why your, your pupils will dilate-

    4. SPSpeaker10:30

       Mm-hmm

    5. JFJefferson Fisher10:30

       ... so you're focused in. Your nostrils will flare to, like, get you more oxygen. You feel ner- Like, you shake.

    6. SPSpeaker10:36

       Yeah.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher10:36

       You're, you get tense.

    8. SPSpeaker10:37

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher10:37

       'Cause your body's just r- physically ready to go.

    10. SPSpeaker10:40

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher10:40

        Or on the, like, fight or flight-

    12. SPSpeaker10:43

        Mm-hmm

    13. JFJefferson Fisher10:44

        ... you're wanting to hang up the phone. You wanna leave the room.

    14. SPSpeaker10:47

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher10:47

        You want to get out of he- I... Who, who... How many times have you said, "I can't do this"?

    16. SPSpeaker10:51

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher10:51

        "I'm not gonna do this right now."

    18. SPSpeaker10:52

        Oh my God. What do you mean?

    19. JFJefferson Fisher10:52

        And you're re- and you're ready to go. It is your fight or flight saying, "Get out of there."

    20. SPSpeaker10:56

        Yeah.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher10:57

        And that's-

    22. SPSpeaker10:58

        I'm done

    23. JFJefferson Fisher10:58

        ... it's... Yeah, exactly. And it's just ti- it's-

    24. SPSpeaker11:00

        Yeah

    25. JFJefferson Fisher11:00

        ... your communication is tied to how your body feels.

    26. SPSpeaker11:03

        Yeah.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher11:03

        And so you have to... There are steps that you can use to regulate yourself so that does not happen.

12. 11:08 – 14:22

    The cost of dramatic exits ('I’m done') and why clarity improves connection

    1. SPSpeaker11:08

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, I realized how detrimental that was in past relationships, was my, "I'm done."

    2. JFJefferson Fisher11:14

       "I'm so done."

    3. SPSpeaker11:14

       Yeah. I'm done.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher11:15

       "I can't."

    5. SPSpeaker11:15

       We're done.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher11:16

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker11:16

       It's like after-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher11:17

       I literally cannot

    9. SPSpeaker11:18

       ... after 10 years of that, it's like-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher11:19

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker11:19

        ... please function. [laughs]

    12. JFJefferson Fisher11:20

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker11:20

        I don't believe you-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher11:21

        Right

    15. SPSpeaker11:22

        ... anymore. Um, but something I wanna just talk about and then I wanna talk more about the control, um-

    16. JFJefferson Fisher11:27

        All right. Yeah

    17. SPSpeaker11:28

        ... those, the three, was related to the first part where we were talking about that conversation between, like, a man and woman.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher11:34

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SPSpeaker11:34

        And say she has something she wants to talk about, preparing him to get home.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher11:38

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SPSpeaker11:38

        I think something that's so important that you mentioned that I think is a game changer for relationships, and so I think women need to pay attention to do, is not, um, loading everything on. So it's like we're gonna talk about one thing.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher11:51

        Oh, yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker11:52

        And, and you have to only talk about one thing.

    24. JFJefferson Fisher11:55

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker11:55

        You can't... This is me talking to my previous self. You can't be like, "Okay, and then this feels good, and then I'm gonna talk about this thing and this thing and this thing." Like, focusing on the one thing is such an important aspect of communication in relationships.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher12:07

        Yes. Um, I like to say if you're talking about everything, you're talking about nothing.

    27. SPSpeaker12:11

        So true.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher12:12

        And, and put it e- even in a business context.

    29. SPSpeaker12:14

        Yeah. That's a good one.

    30. JFJefferson Fisher12:15

        You, you have that meeting and your boss says, "All right, everybody, we got a lot to talk about," and you already know right away, you're rolling your eyes going, "This could've been an email." Uh-

Episode duration: 14:22