Why Lowering Your Voice Makes You Unstoppable | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 1:12

   Pause before speaking: let your breath be your first word

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      What can they do to take time and space for themselves to pause and just think and sort through their ideas?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:06

      What they need to do is make their breath the first word that they say.

   3. SPSpeaker0:12

      Hmm.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:12

      So, rather than going straight into the conversation, rather than just start with the, the word vomit, the, "Let me spill out my ideas," if you just take a breath right before you respond, what it's doing is not only regulating your body, you know, making sure you're more aware and, and control of your emotions, it is signaling to the other person that what I'm about to say has been thought about, has been acknowledged. There's a difference of you asking me a question, "Hey Jefferson, how was your day?" And I went, "It was good. It was good, Chris. It was fine. It was fine. It was a good day." Doesn't really sound like I really thought about it. But if you ask me, "Hey Jefferson, how was your day?" And I went, "You know, Chris, it was good. It was a good day. Ups and downs, but it was good." Which one of those sounds like I actually acknowledged what you said or really thought about it? And in s- and in exchange, you actually want to hear what I'm about to say more. Like, same thing with in an interview. That's probably one of the top things I talk about with friends

2. 1:12 – 2:01

   Why slower answers sound smarter in interviews and high-pressure moments

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:12

      that are going into an interview, and they're like, "Hey, what should I do?" It's like, the slower you answer the question, the better the interview will be. They ask you a question, and you just immediately try to, [snaps fingers] it has to be as fast as possible. That's the opposite. What you are ne- needing to exude in that moment is, I can take stressful moments, including the interview that I'm in, and be able to regulate myself and show you that I'm not somebody who runs in conversation. I walk in it. And whenever you slow yourself down, they're gonna find that what you're saying is... They're gonna even feel that what you're saying is more thought out and more intentional than if it's just off the cuff.

   2. SPSpeaker1:54

      To the best of your ability to recall, when do you first remember this being a conscious thought or effort from your part?

3. 2:01 – 2:45

   Early courtroom lessons: training clients to pause under pressure

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:01

      I started teaching clients this very early on in my, uh, really as a first-year associate. Uh, I was at a law firm that was the type that, you know, I wasn't behind a lot of partners. It was like, "These are your clients. You either sink or swim. G- get after it." So, you really go to your first trial your first year by yourself. And I can remember training some of the first people on, they get so nervous before their deposition. There's cameras, there's other people, and I'm teaching them, okay, instead of just going right into it, they ask you a question, instead of just having a, an immediate response, take a minute. And some I would say, "I want you to s- just count one Mississippi." That's it. Just-

   2. SPSpeaker2:44

      [chuckles]

4. 2:45 – 3:15

   Verbal defensive driving: controlling your lane in a hostile conversation

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:45

      ... one. And, and y- I mean, I did all kinds of things to try and get them to remember it. And so, then what I would do is I would put on the hat of being the opposing attorney, and I'd say, "Okay Chris, you know, you understand that you're here today. Isn't that, isn't that true?" And I would start to kind of pressure them and get them all kind of worked up, and I'd say, "Okay, this is the moment. This is where count just in your head one Mississippi. Okay, now answer." N- instead of feeling like you're in their timeframe, in their time space, you're controlling

5. 3:15 – 4:18

   Influence and upbringing: learning calm from a trial-attorney family

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:15

      it. You're saying, "Nope, I'm the one that's driving in my lane. You can't do anything about it." So, it's really, it's like d- teaching defensive driving verbally and how to do that. Now, on the flip end of that is I, I'm a fifth-generation trial attorney. All the men in my attorn- family are attorneys, women too, and my dad is this way. I could come to my dad with an issue, and I'd say, "I... Dad, we got this, we have this problem." And he'd go, "Yep. That's a problem." You know what I mean? Like, the... He was just always-

   2. SPSpeaker3:48

      [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:48

      ... very, very, very keel. And so, I would be, I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, Dad, they're gonna be, they're g- but they're gonna be really upset." And he would take a beat and say, "Yep. I guess they'll be upset." I mean, that was just his type of demeanor.

   4. SPSpeaker4:03

      Mm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher4:03

      And so, of course, it's just genetics mirroring that my entire life. Um, yeah, he was, he would always exude the, the run or the walk don't run kind of mentality.

6. 4:18 – 5:06

   Tone and pace change the room: listeners feel the shift immediately

   1. SPSpeaker4:18

      I can feel my energy change just by the way that you were changing your tone and the pace in which you were talking.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

      Mm.

   3. SPSpeaker4:25

      This is just goes to, to the point of, like, how much the tone and the way that you deliver the words matter sometimes even more than the words. 'Cause when you were putting on that, like, um, that mock trial thing with the opposing counsel saying, "So, what were you..."

   4. JFJefferson Fisher4:40

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker4:40

      I just felt like, whoa.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher4:41

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker4:42

      I, I, like, I'm gonna say something probably not that smart.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher4:44

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker4:44

      Probably something that's gonna incriminate myself right then.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher4:47

       Right. Right.

   11. SPSpeaker4:47

       And you could just feel that.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher4:48

       Even if you don't mean to.

   13. SPSpeaker4:49

       Yeah. I, I just felt it-

   14. JFJefferson Fisher4:50

       Yeah

   15. SPSpeaker4:50

       ... right away because your baseline is so calm, reassuring, and-

   16. JFJefferson Fisher4:55

       Mm

   17. SPSpeaker4:55

       ... and just gentle and inviting, that the minute that you switched that up, I could feel it immediately.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher5:00

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker5:01

       I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you're listening to this-

   20. JFJefferson Fisher5:03

       Well, yeah

   21. SPSpeaker5:03

       ... just let us know that-

   22. JFJefferson Fisher5:05

       Yeah, yeah

   23. SPSpeaker5:05

       ... you, I'm not the only person who felt that.

7. 5:06 – 6:46

   Lower your volume, slow your words: sounding confident without aggression

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:06

      Right. Right, right. Well, the thing is, anybody can do it, Chris. It, it's, I mean, it's more natural to me because this is how I was raised. This is the household I, I, I was in. I mean, I was raised on, on the Socratic method. You know?

   2. SPSpeaker5:19

      Mm.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher5:19

      I'd come with the problems, and my dad would say, "Well, what do you think they would say about that?" You know? Like, he would always put it in the position of the, the other person and slow me down. But it, it, like, if you're listening right now, if you want to sound more confident, more respected in your communication, and more, even, uh, more serious, more warm, whatever it is, all you need to do is slow down your words and lower your volume. It makes a huge impact. If you are with somebody who's always loud and very aggressive, do you want to do more of what they say or less? So, like, compare it to, to this. If I were to say, "Look, Chris, I already told you I'm not, I'm, I'm not gonna do that," versus, "Chris, I already told you I'm not going to do that." Now which one of those is, let's say, somebody who sounds more grounded, somebody who sounds more balanced, somebody who sounds more composed, somebody really you don't wanna mess with? It's actually the person who sounds less emotional, the person who sounds-

   4. SPSpeaker6:33

      Right

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:33

      ... less aggressive, who says, "Oh no, this is not somebody I wanna mess with." And it's, uh, I'm saying the same thing, but the connotation, the feeling is very, very different.

8. 6:46 – 7:16

   When clients panic on the stand: fixing speed and interruptions in real time

   1. SPSpeaker6:46

      Okay. You say it, I feel it, I live it. There's so many people who will hear this and say, like, "Gosh, it just... I can't figure it out." Now you must have worked with some, some clients in, in the courtroom where you're like, "Okay, just take a breath."

   2. JFJefferson Fisher7:01

      Right.

   3. SPSpeaker7:01

      "We go real slow." And then you see them on the stand and they're like, "Mah." That's got to happen, right?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher7:07

      Oh, yeah. I have it all the time. Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker7:09

      Okay. And when you're on break, do you, how do you redirect? How do you get them in that pocket again?

9. 7:16 – 10:42

   The ‘in the pocket’ reset: calming someone without lecturing them

   1. JFJefferson Fisher7:16

      Yeah, so you kind of have to do it without telling them about it. Like I have-

   2. SPSpeaker7:20

      Okay

   3. JFJefferson Fisher7:20

      ... um, for example, I had this guy once who, um, you know, he had read some stuff on Google and he's like, "Oh, no, I, I, you know, I, I read you need to be, you know, really short with your answers." I'm like, "Oh, that's, that's all great." And they, on textbook, they think they got it all worked out. And despite all of my preparation with them, they go- we ha- I had them go right into the deposition. He started out great, and it, it took no, no time at all, Chris. He was starting to step on the other attorney's questions. So before the attorney was actually an- finished with their question, he's already stepping on it with their answer. So he, the c- uh, the question was something like, "You know, now you went that day, you first drove to your cousin's," and you'd be like, "House." "Yep, I went to their house." So he's stepping on the, the words, which you don't wanna do because in terms of the reason why there's a court reporter is because everything's written down. So on paper it doesn't look good. It's what they would say, "It's a messy record," because you have these insertions into instead of a full question, a full answer. And he kept doing it and I was like, "You know better." And so in my head I'm like, "All right, this next question I'm gonna pull him out." So sure enough he answers the last question, stepped on it again. I said, "Okay, let's take a, we're just gonna take a five-minute break. Let's just take a little break. You wanna stand up for a second?" He's like, "Yeah, that's fine." And so we get out of the room and I just say, "Hey, just walk with me." And so I'm unrolling a peppermint while I'm doing it, just action, acting super nonchalant.

   4. SPSpeaker8:52

      [chuckles]

   5. JFJefferson Fisher8:53

      I pop it in my mouth. I'm like, "Let's just sit right here." We sit down and I say, "So, um, how old are your kids again?" And he was like, "Ah, yeah, you know, seven, seven and an eight." I was like, "Oh, that's, that's great. That's great ages. What'd, what'd y- what'd y'all, uh, what'd y'all do the l- last week?" And all of a sudden he starts to like calm down. He's like, "Oh, we, uh, we went to, um, a movie." I was like, "What movie?" He's like, "Oh, it's the movie with the, you know, the talking animals." I think it was like, um, Madagascar, you know, uh, something like that, Madagascar 2. I was like, "Oh, that's, that's great." I was like, "Was it good?" And he stops and he slows down and he goes, "Yeah, I mean it was good, you know, it was a cute movie." And I said, "Good. All right, you see what we're doing here?" He goes, "Yeah." I said, "That's exactly what you're gonna do in there." I said, "We're gonna slow it down." He goes, "Ah, I'm stepping on it, aren't I?" I said, "Yep, that's exactly what you're doing. All right, so let's, let's go back and treat it just like you're, you, you're talking to me right here." And sure enough he went right back... It was like he had to hear it, he had to feel it-

   6. SPSpeaker9:55

      Mm

   7. JFJefferson Fisher9:55

      ... for me to make him click. Rather than me pulling him out and going, "Hey, stop stepping on the question and, and get, let him get it all out, okay?" That's not gonna do it. But by showing the example, making him feel like it was, or just right there keeping it in the pocket. I was like, "Let's, let's stay right in this momentum. You feel this?" And he was like, "Yeah, I feel that." "Okay, let's stay right here." So I use that phrase in the pocket a whole lot with them.

   8. SPSpeaker10:21

      Okay. This is excellent. Very interesting how you took it to a very conversational level where there's nothing for him to be nervous about.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher10:29

      Yeah.

   10. SPSpeaker10:29

       And so that he can be a better performer in the courtroom because there shouldn't be a difference between this style of talking versus like when you're getting grilled by the other attorney.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher10:41

       Correct.

10. 10:42 – 11:51

    Universal communication principle—be yourself, with context-sensitive adjustments

    1. SPSpeaker10:42

       And I find that in sales we can have a normal conversation, everything's going great, but when they're on a call with a client they get all high pitch, they get really nervous and anxious and they start-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher10:52

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker10:53

       ... start talking really fast. They start doing performative things that they normally just don't do. So are we talking... Like there's this universal concept about communication, like how you talk to a really good friend is how you should talk everywhere?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher11:08

       In my opinion, yes. Now I would say there's a difference in, of course, context and environment. I'm not gonna talk to a prospective client the same way I'm gonna talk to my grandmother, you know?

    5. SPSpeaker11:20

       Right.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher11:20

       Or, or, or, you know, my best friend or my dad. There's casual situations where when you and I are in sweatpants and drinking coffee talking about life, it's not the same. So, but I would say the premise holds true that you generally want everybody to feel very comfortable around you. Even when you're public speaking, uh, one of the best compliments you can get is, "You seem so comfortable up there." Yeah, 'cause when you understand that I don't have anything to prove, I'm just telling you what I know, I can be excited

11. 11:51 – 12:51

    Power in restraint: you don’t owe an immediate response

    1. JFJefferson Fisher11:51

       about what I have to share. And when I get excited about the message of what I'm giving, then I can channel that excitement into how it's gonna benefit everybody else. And that, that's a, that's a wonderful thing to be generous with your words and generous with your message. Now if somebody's grilling you ... in a deposition type of setting. It is, it is different. It just, it's understanding that you can't make me say anything I don't want to say, and you can't make me talk any faster than I'm going to respond. So when I understand that I'm the one that has control of the steering wheel at all times, it's a very confident mindset. It's a game-changing type of concept when you understand that you, you say something to me, I can choose not to say anything at all. That is a pretty powerful thing. People feel like you always have to have a response. That's not true. So when you're talking in front of people, even in that sales context, if you can just be you. Like, we have such a sixth sense of knowing when somebody's being fake. Let me tell you what, a

12. 12:51 – 14:27

    Authenticity under scrutiny: juries detect ‘fake’ instantly

    1. JFJefferson Fisher12:51

       jury knows immediately, Chris, if somebody's being fake, and they will destroy them. They will pour their whole case out if they feel like they're being fake. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a jury totally turn on somebody's case if they thought that they were being somebody that they're not. Like, you just meet somebody and go, [lip smacks] "There's something about them that doesn't..." It's just this sixth sense that we have. I think it's very, um, I don't, I, I'm not sure if it's just the DNA of our caveman-like abilities to go, "Nope, something doesn't smell right about this. I'm not sure what it is, but something's not..."

    2. SPSpeaker13:34

       [chuckles]

    3. JFJefferson Fisher13:34

       And, and, and it's even people who try too hard, right? They're like, "No."

    4. SPSpeaker13:37

       Hmm.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher13:38

       They're trying too hard. Like, what does that even mean? They're, they're being somebody that they're not. Ever had somebody try to really make you like them? And you're like... It makes you... It's a, it's a turnoff. Now you sh- definitely don't like them. Why? 'Cause they're trying too hard to be liked. I don't... They're being somebody that they're not. Uh, if a witness on the stand is faking sympathy, like trying to gain sympathy, let's say they kind of act... You can tell they're being fake emotional about it. They really don't mean it. Oh, a jury will just go, "Nope, we don't trust you. No credibility. I think you're faking it." And, uh, it's, it's king's X, uh, every time. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there

Episode duration: 14:28