Joe Rogan Experience #1078 - Jimmy Dore

Jimmy Dore 0:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:01 Three, two... Jamie with the quick count. Jimmy Dore. We're live, we're live.

Jimmy Dore 0:07 Oh, fantastic.

Joe Rogan 0:08 Do you use headsets or no? Are you a no-headset guy?

Jimmy Dore 0:10 Oh, should I wear a headset? I'll wear a headset, sure.

Joe Rogan 0:11 It's up to you. I just feel lonely if I'm the only guy with headsets.

Jimmy Dore 0:13 Oh, okay, there you... Ooh, that's nice.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Is that better?

Jimmy Dore 0:14 Oh, I got somebody... Like they got their privacy going. "Hey, what time is it?" It's 11:01, one minute after 11:00. 59 minutes before the top of the 12 hours.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Did you ever do that? Did you ever do, like, a regular radio show?

Jimmy Dore 0:24 I had... In college I had a radio show, but it wasn't real. It was, uh... It just broadcast to no one, actually, it turned out.

Joe Rogan 0:29 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 0:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:30 To the campus?

Jimmy Dore 0:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:31 Was it just to the campus?

Jimmy Dore 0:32 It was supposed to be going out to the campus, and then we found out about three months in it wasn't going out to (laughs) anybody.

Joe Rogan 0:37 I always had dreams of doing a radio show, but I always knew that I would fuck it up, you know? I'm like, I'd get fired or something. I never th- And I never thought anybody would hire me, you know?

Jimmy Dore 0:45 I got in trouble f- at that station for, uh, li- for playing the same song three times in a row (laughs) 'cause I was like-

Joe Rogan 0:51 'Cause it was so good?

Jimmy Dore 0:52 Yeah, I liked it. It was-

Joe Rogan 0:52 What was the song?

Jimmy Dore 0:53 I don't even remember. It was, like-

Joe Rogan 0:54 Ha, ha.

Jimmy Dore 0:54 ... some off-brand, I'd never heard of them be- like, the Rabbani Brothers. I was like, "This is a fun song." I-

Joe Rogan 0:58 They fired you from a college station for that?

Jimmy Dore 1:00 They didn't fire me. They came in and they yelled at me. And I was like, "This isn't even going out to anyone." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 1:06 And if it was a nice day and I had to do my radio shift, I would just come in and simulcast with the FM, 'cause I was on AM-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:12 ... and simulcast with the FM station 'cause I wanted to go out in the quiet. I didn't wanna sit in the studio (laughs) if it was a nice day.

Joe Rogan 1:18 I wonder if anybody has done this. I mean, I don't think you could do it and put ads on it, but you could do it as just a fun project, have your own radio show on a podcast where you just play songs. Could you do that, Jamie?

Jimmy Dore 1:32 No, I think because you can't give pe- If you give people a download of a song, that's illegal.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Oh, right. Okay.

Jimmy Dore 1:38 Yeah. That's why I... Yeah, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:40 So you could stream it, though, maybe? Like stream it on YouTube?

Jimmy Dore 1:43 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Maybe, but not-

Jimmy Dore 1:44 But you'd still-

Joe Rogan 1:45 Probably not.

Jimmy Dore 1:45 ... have to pay some kind of royalties for those songs. I don't know what.

Joe Rogan 1:48 Huh. Even if you weren't making any money off of it, you'd have to pay?

Jimmy Dore 1:52 I think so. If someone's streaming your jokes, they have to pay.

Joe Rogan 1:56 Yeah, but the thing is, nobody wants to hear your jokes more than once. That's the problem with jokes.

Jimmy Dore 2:00 That's not true, Joe.

Joe Rogan 2:02 Really?

Jimmy Dore 2:03 All right. Fir- first of all, let me blow smoke up your ass a little bit. I'm not actually... This is sincere. So I've seen you do comedy before. I saw you... We did, uh, the 2004, I think it was the Aspen Festival. We were on the opening night show at the Wheeler, uh, Opera House. And then I saw you do sets at The Improv. And I always thought you were funny, you know? Uh, but I never remembered any of your jokes. And then I saw you at The Comedy Store a couple weeks ago, and I've been doing your act ever since. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:32 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 2:32 I've been telling your jokes everywhere I go to anybody who will listen, and everybody falls down laughing. Those jokes that you have... First of all, the joke about Weinstein is just so goddamn funny.

Joe Rogan 2:43 (laughs) Thanks.

Jimmy Dore 2:43 And then the joke about the wrestling. Goddamn it, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:46 Thanks, man.

Jimmy Dore 2:47 And I... It's, it's hard for me to not say them right in your face right now. I know I s- It would... That would be not good if I did your jokes right to you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:55 Right.

Jimmy Dore 2:55 But I can't not do... Those are some of the funniest jokes I've heard in a long time. And, uh, I know people are gonna be saying, "Oh, he's such a kiss ass." I'm not kidding. I love comedy and I love jokes, and I can re- remember jokes that I like. And, uh, (laughs) that Harvey Weinstein joke.

Joe Rogan 3:10 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 3:10 That's so goddamn funny.

Joe Rogan 3:12 I, I'm gonna rush to get that onto a Netflix special because I'm worried it's gonna get old.

Jimmy Dore 3:16 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 3:16 'Cause right now, you know, it's like, it happened a couple of months ago, it's still okay. And I'm recording in April and I'm like, "Boy, April is like The Wire." That's like Under the Wire.

Jimmy Dore 3:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:26 You know?

Jimmy Dore 3:26 I think it'll be okay 'cause there, there's not gonna be a bigger-

Joe Rogan 3:30 Right.

Jimmy Dore 3:30 ... uh, raper or whatever than Harvey Weinstein could come. He's prob- he's the pinnacle, right?

Joe Rogan 3:34 Right. Like, if you had a Cosby joke today, it's still okay.

Jimmy Dore 3:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:37 'Cause he's such a raper.

Jimmy Dore 3:38 That's right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:39 You know?

Jimmy Dore 3:39 I forgot Cosby. You're right.

Joe Rogan 3:41 How could you forget? Did you see the recent shit where Cosby was at a barbershop? There's videos of him hanging out at the barbershop talking about jazz, uh, trivia-

Jimmy Dore 3:50 No.

Joe Rogan 3:50 ... talking with all the barbershop guys in Philly.

Jimmy Dore 3:52 No.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Yeah. Yeah. He actually performed recently at a jazz club. Yeah, he showed up at this jazz club and performed, and then announced that he was gonna perform at another place. He's, like, he's back while he's in between trials.

Jimmy Dore 4:06 Wow. So, uh... See, that's the weird thing. I always wondered, like... He was still selling tickets.

Joe Rogan 4:13 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 4:13 Like, people will still show up to see him.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Well, before the no one... Before anyone knew for sure what was going on, there was a couple of accusations and everybody was like, "What is this?" Like, "What, what is this really? Is this real? Is this someone doing a shakedown?" And then they started... The, the... Just the fucking tsunami of accusations started piling in, which is really incredible when you think about it, how many years that guy was doing that.

Jimmy Dore 4:35 Uh, it's unbelievable how you... He could get away with that for so long and-

Joe Rogan 4:40 It's terrifying.

Jimmy Dore 4:41 ... and then something... And then now it's like you just go on a bad date and you're, you're getting in trouble.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Like Aziz Ansari?

Jimmy Dore 4:46 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:47 Yeah, that's horrible, right?

Jimmy Dore 4:48 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:48 Yeah. Now, well, it's... The pendulum swings. You know? I, I think it's, it's, it's kind of open season on men right now, and it'll swing back around and it'll be normal again. And, you know, it makes sense. I mean, you, you... There's so many of these accusations that happen, you know, after a while they pile up and then there's this just, like, anti-male resentment-

Jimmy Dore 5:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:08 ... and then it'll swing back and it'll normalize. And people are sort of reacting to the Aziz thing, and they say, "Well, that went a little too far." And then the woman who was in charge of... The California woman who was a big Me Too supporter, she got busted. Did you see that?

Jimmy Dore 5:21 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Yeah. She was grabbing some dude's dick-

Jimmy Dore 5:24 No.

Joe Rogan 5:24 ... and grabbing his ass, and she was drunk and she's, she was a congresswoman.

Jimmy Dore 5:28 No kidding.

Joe Rogan 5:29 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jimmy Dore 5:30 You ever have-

Joe Rogan 5:30 Yeah. Look, people-

Jimmy Dore 5:31 You have, you have a girl do that to you?

Joe Rogan 5:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 5:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:33 I've been grabbed. You know, like Bill Burr said this famously, and he's a 100% correct. It's after shows, drunk women in their 40s, they get a little liquored up, they get crazy and they just... They'll go for it.

Jimmy Dore 5:45 They get a little grabby.

Joe Rogan 5:46 They grab that ass.

Jimmy Dore 5:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:47 They go for it.

Jimmy Dore 5:48 And, you know, uh, did you, did you feel violated? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:52 No. You know, it's, it's... Anybody who says it's not different for men is just a liar. It's not physically scary. It's like if-... my daughter comes and punches me and kicks me-

Jimmy Dore 6:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:03 ... you know, like, she'll do that for fun, just as a joke. It's not threatening.

Jimmy Dore 6:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:08 Right?

Jimmy Dore 6:08 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:08 It's fun. It's silly. But if y- you did it, I'd be like, "Hey, man-"

Jimmy Dore 6:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:12 "... don't fucking hit me."

Jimmy Dore 6:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:13 Like, a man hits you, it's different. Like, if a man is trying to grab a woman's ass, you're talking about someone larger grabbing someone smaller, it's scary. It's dangerous. The real threat of rape is actually there.

Jimmy Dore 6:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:25 No 40-year-old lady's gonna rape me.

Jimmy Dore 6:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:28 You know? It's not gonna happen, unless I want her to. It's just not, it's not gonna go down that way.

Jimmy Dore 6:33 (laughs) There... (laughs) I would like to s-

Joe Rogan 6:34 That'd have to be really sick. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 6:37 You... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:37 That'd have to be something really wrong with me.

Jimmy Dore 6:39 Well, there was this guy... And see, this is, uh, how I like remembering jokes. I haven't seen this guy probably tell jokes for 25 years. His name is Paul Kelly. And it was right in the, in the '80s, or at the end of the '80s when, when women were in the workforce and that was like One Day at a Time, remember that show?

Joe Rogan 6:53 Right, sure.

Jimmy Dore 6:53 It was all about women. And so things were weird in the workplace. Men didn't know how to talk to women and how to act and then they would go, "Oh, she's just like one of the guys." Remember that? They would say that.

Joe Rogan 7:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 7:02 That was the highest compliment you could give a woman. "She's like one of the guys. We don't have to act weird around her." And this guy Paul Kelly, that's when people started to talk about sexual harassment and he said, "See, men, we don't understand what that is."

Joe Rogan 7:14 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Dore 7:15 "It's like, uh, wait a minute, you mean y- you're gonna touch my dick while I type?"

Joe Rogan 7:19 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 7:19 "And I get insurance?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:22 (laughs) Well, I... We say that but d- um... My friend TJ, do you know The Amazing Atheist? Do you know who he is?

Jimmy Dore 7:28 Oh, I do know who he is.

Joe Rogan 7:29 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 7:29 I've seen, uh, his show o- uh, bl- uh, on the YouTube.

Joe Rogan 7:31 Very funny guy.

Jimmy Dore 7:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:32 Um, he told me, and he's kind of an introvert, he told me that he was working in an office once and a woman who was his boss was sexually harassing him. And it was completely unwanted, and she would grab him and he would lock up-

Jimmy Dore 7:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:43 ... he'd freeze and be uncomfortable and, and it was gross. You know? He said it was r- he was r- but he's a big guy, I mean, he wasn't physically in danger. I'm sure it felt super uncomfortable, but it's always gonna be a notch, several notches less scary.

Jimmy Dore 7:57 Well, because she can't take out her dick and stick it in you.

Joe Rogan 7:59 There you go.

Jimmy Dore 7:59 That's a big difference. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:00 That's right. Right? The thing is the violation, right?

Jimmy Dore 8:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:03 That's like the fa- fact that someone could physically hold you against your will and just-

Jimmy Dore 8:08 And penetrate you. In you, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:09 ... stick something in you. Yeah. Take, yeah, get into your body.

Jimmy Dore 8:12 Yes, inside, inside of you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:14 Yeah. Like a woman literally can't do that. She can engulf you. That, that could be scary.

Jimmy Dore 8:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:20 Someone engulfing you, like, oh, Jesus.

Jimmy Dore 8:22 (laughs) Engulfing.

Joe Rogan 8:23 It just doesn't seem as scary though. It's just not the same violation.

Jimmy Dore 8:26 Like, "What happened, Officer?" "Well, uh, he said he was engulfed." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:31 (laughs) He, uh, engulfed my dick with his ass. He just took it over.

Jimmy Dore 8:36 Just tell your Weinstein joke, just tell it.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Nope, can't do it.

Jimmy Dore 8:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:39 It'll be on... I'm t- I'm recording in April, so it's close.

Jimmy Dore 8:42 Tell the-

Joe Rogan 8:43 We're, we're only two months away.

Jimmy Dore 8:43 Have you done that wrestling joke on, on a special before?

Joe Rogan 8:45 No. No, that's all, all the stuff's new. It's, all the stuff is from my, you know, from my last special which was last year to now.

Jimmy Dore 8:52 Well, you know, I have been... L- uh, what it, what it was, what makes I think that set stick in my mind also is that it made me jealous. Right? Like, you know, when you... I don't know if you get jealous, I still get jealous when I see someone doing something better than me (laughs) and I wanna do it.

Joe Rogan 9:04 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 9:05 And I'm like, "Goddammit." Uh, it made me wanna get out and com- 'cause I haven't been doing comedy as much and you know it's like a muscle. I think Jerry Seinfeld said, "If I don't do comedy for about four days, uh, uh, I notice a difference."

Joe Rogan 9:18 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 9:18 "And if I don't do comedy for five days, they can notice." So I haven't been... Uh, since I started my YouTube show, it's, uh, I haven't been doing standup as much as I should and I stopped touring like I should and, uh, and I miss it. I wanna do another special. And watching... And that night of comedy at The Comedy Store made me go, "Goddammit, uh, (laughs) I gotta get outta here and start, what the fuck am I doing?"

Joe Rogan 9:40 Well, that's, that's the highest compliment you could pay a comic.

Jimmy Dore 9:43 Goddammit, it was like-

Joe Rogan 9:44 You know? I've felt that many times.

Jimmy Dore 9:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:46 You know, that feeling of just being inspired, just wanna go home and write.

Jimmy Dore 9:49 Yeah. And I was, you know... I mean, my set went fine but it wasn't, uh... I- I'm not on my game right now.

Joe Rogan 9:54 Right.

Jimmy Dore 9:54 You know? I have to really start working it again, which I have started. And I'm going out and it's, uh, it's my... I forgot, it's like this is all I ever wanted to do in my life, was standup comedy.

Joe Rogan 10:04 Right.

Jimmy Dore 10:04 And like being a standup comic to me was like being Ray Liotta in Goodfellas, like, you know, I didn't wait in line. I fucking wanted something, I took it. I-

Joe Rogan 10:12 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 10:13 You know? I don't fucking follow rules or listen to your bullshit. I fucking do what I want, I say what I want, and they pay me for it.

Joe Rogan 10:19 Right.

Jimmy Dore 10:20 And that's... I just fucking love that shit. And, uh, it- a- a- and then I started doing the YouTube show and I f- it becomes a job-

Joe Rogan 10:29 Right.

Jimmy Dore 10:29 ... right? For me. And it's a grind in a sense. And doing comedy, I so miss sleeping till noon and then getting up, working out, having... All you had to do is figure out, "Who am I gonna have lunch with today?" That was my big decision.

Joe Rogan 10:40 Right.

Jimmy Dore 10:41 "Who am I gonna have lunch with?" Then I go home after the lunch, I have a nap, then I go on and do a show. It's fu- it was the greatest life in the world. Why did I fuck it up? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:48 (laughs) But you must enjoy doing your YouTube show too, right?

Jimmy Dore 10:52 I do because, uh, through my... It helps me to f- discover who I am more. Because as a standup I, um, I was like Bill Hicks, was my favorite guy. When I saw Bill Hicks in Chicago, I almost quit. Um...

Joe Rogan 11:05 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 11:06 Because I was in comedy about three or four years and I was like, "I fucking know what I'm doing." You know?

Joe Rogan 11:10 Right.

Jimmy Dore 11:10 And every s- before I got on stage I'd be like, "Wait till they get a load of me." You know? I was like, "That guy?"

Joe Rogan 11:14 Right.

Jimmy Dore 11:14 "Oh, I'm the fucking baddest ass in Chicago."

Joe Rogan 11:17 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 11:17 And then, uh, everybody talked about this guy Bill Hicks, right? And I was like, "I'll, I'm gonna check this guy out." So I sat down and, uh, he starts his set and about two minutes in I started drinking. And then about five minutes in I started drinking more. And about 10 minutes in I was convinced that I was gonna quit comedy. Because-

Joe Rogan 11:35 Wow.

Jimmy Dore 11:36 ... my whole life, you know, I always thought like... A- George Carlin was my hero and I was like, "You know, if I do everything right, uh, I could maybe be like George Carlin for one special." Like, "Maybe if I get everything right and I really work it." And I saw Bill Hicks and I knew I was n- I was always gonna be competing for second place. And so when he died it made me feel a lot better. I was like, "Oh fuck, I'm back." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:00 (laughs) Oh, that's the worst.

Jimmy Dore 12:02 No, it was the saddest thing when he died, of course. He was my hero. And, um, you know, I didn't really know him. I knew him tangentially and it was weird to feel that kind of sadness for someone who you don't know personally.And, um, so that was a big deal to me, watching Bill Hicks. It totally changed my life. And I tried to be like him. Of course, like an idiot, I tried to be like him and you can't, right?

Joe Rogan 12:22 Right.

Jimmy Dore 12:23 And, uh, and then one time I was dating this, uh, girl, and might be my wife, I don't know who told me this, but she said, "You don't look like you, where you come from." 'Cause I come from the South Side of Chicago, grew up poor. 12 kids, drinking powdered milk, you know, and having the shit beat out of me from the fucking morning 'til night, right? 'Cause I went to Catholic school, tough neighborhood, and my... So, uh, and she's like, "You can't be angry like Bill Hicks, because you look like you come from privilege, money, and you're dressed well." I always liked to dress nice 'cause I grew up poor. I always wanted to be... And, uh, so that's when I had to, like, pull back on the anger on stage, and I was like, "If you watch my specials on Comedy Central, I'm very nice." And, uh, doing the YouTube show is what let me, uh, connect with my anger, which is always what drives me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:10 Ah, that's interesting.

Jimmy Dore 13:11 And that is what has connected with people, and that's when I really started selling tickets and my, everything, you know, everything I wanted to get from comedy, in a sense, uh, I got from this YouTube show. So now I can go wherever I want and do a show and just, my fans will show up. It's, it's the greatest thing that ever happened in my life.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Well, you're very good on your YouTube show, and you're also very fair. You know, one of the things that I really like about your show is, you, you are v- you're obviously a left-leaning guy, but you're very balanced in your criticism of the left, in your criticism of criticism of the left, and-

Jimmy Dore 13:44 Well, if you have to lie to make your point, you don't have a good point.

Joe Rogan 13:47 I agree with you 1,000%.

Jimmy Dore 13:48 So...

Joe Rogan 13:48 I think that's so- it's such an important thing that's being missed today.

Jimmy Dore 13:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 13:52 And I don't know that, and I don't know... I've gone back and forth on issues. Everybody-

Joe Rogan 13:55 Sure.

Jimmy Dore 13:55 ... I think you can be allowed to go back and forth on issues. You know, um, I was, uh, I was against gun control, I was for gun control, then I was against it again. I mean, you know...

Joe Rogan 14:05 Right.

Jimmy Dore 14:06 Uh, so, um, uh, the thing that... People give me a lot of har- I get, I get more of a hard time from people who consider themselves on the left than people who consider themselves on the right.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Today, right?

Jimmy Dore 14:17 Today.

Joe Rogan 14:17 This is a new thing, though, isn't it?

Jimmy Dore 14:19 It's a new thing.

Joe Rogan 14:19 Over the last decade?

Jimmy Dore 14:20 Right, it's because-

Joe Rogan 14:21 Maybe less than a decade.

Jimmy Dore 14:22 Well, to me it since, uh, it's, it really started with Bill Clinton in '92, but it didn't get really ramped up until Barack Obama in like 2010 when it was clear that Barack Obama was a neo-liberal corporatist who was gonna do the bidding of the war machine and Wall Street and big pharma. Which is why when the Democrats got control of government, they had, uh, the presidency, the Senate, filibuster-proof Senate for a few months, and they had the Congress and the House, and they didn't pass single pay or even a public option. What do we get? We got a right-wing healthcare plan anyway which is a giveaway to the phar- pharma and health insurance companies that left out 28 million fucking people.

Joe Rogan 15:02 And infuriated small business owners, infuriated people that were, pro, that had a small practice, that they were, they were doctors and, you know, and all, all such, sorts of people that were...

Jimmy Dore 15:12 It was better than what we had. It was a bad solutio- it wasn't a solution. What it was was a solution for the pharmaceutical companies and the health insurance companies.

Joe Rogan 15:21 How was it better than what we had? In what way?

Jimmy Dore 15:23 Well, because you, before there was preexisting conditions and you couldn't get coverage, so then-

Joe Rogan 15:26 Right.

Jimmy Dore 15:26 ... now we're supposed to, so now you could always get coverage and...

Joe Rogan 15:28 So that part was better, the-

Jimmy Dore 15:30 S- yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:31 ... the fact that you can get covered even if you had an issue.

Jimmy Dore 15:33 Right, right. So then you could, then you could go on an exchange and stuff like that. I never had to do that. I always got, through my wife's employer, I always had my health insurance, right? And by the way, having health insurance is (laughs) , doesn't really mean that mu- I got really sick and she-

Joe Rogan 15:47 Well, you were talking about this before the podcast.

Jimmy Dore 15:48 Well this was be- that's a, this is a different thing, but I got, uh, I had a, uh, an illness where they couldn't diagnose for a few years. And it almost killed me, right? And...

Joe Rogan 15:56 What was it?

Jimmy Dore 15:57 It was called hypophosphatemic osteomalacia.

Joe Rogan 16:00 Whoa.

Jimmy Dore 16:01 And... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:01 That should be on late night TV.

Jimmy Dore 16:02 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 16:02 Like one of those commercials. "Do you have osco-pharmatruicilicious-"

Jimmy Dore 16:06 (laughs) "Do you have oso-"

Joe Rogan 16:07 "...-fectalidocious?"

Jimmy Dore 16:08 Side effects include death. I, uh... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:11 What is it?

Jimmy Dore 16:12 Uh, it's a, it's a bone disease. So, uh-

Joe Rogan 16:14 Oh.

Jimmy Dore 16:14 ... my bones were emitting ev- uh... The, the, the bottom line is my bones were dis- I was having, uh, bone disintegration.

Joe Rogan 16:22 Whoa.

Jimmy Dore 16:22 So, yeah, I used to be much taller.

Joe Rogan 16:25 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 16:25 I know that sounds funny, right? But it's actually true.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Is that true?

Jimmy Dore 16:27 When we met I was taller than you.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Get the fuck outta here.

Jimmy Dore 16:29 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 16:30 How much, how tall were you?

Jimmy Dore 16:31 I was around 5'10".

Joe Rogan 16:32 And you shrank to 5'8"?

Jimmy Dore 16:34 I'm a, I'm a little, little under 5'8".

Joe Rogan 16:36 Wow. That's crazy.

Jimmy Dore 16:38 Yeah. So, um, I know, right? And I, when that happened, I was gonna kill myself. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:44 (laughs) Did you try stretch yourself out?

Jimmy Dore 16:46 Uh... (laughs) Yes.

Joe Rogan 16:49 Get, get one of those things they use at, medieval torture devices? Ah, the rack?

Jimmy Dore 16:53 So I'm one of those guys who, if I want something, no matter what price I have to pay, physical, whatever, I'll pay it and I'll do, and I'll get that thing I want. Right? Like, I'll get it.

Joe Rogan 17:03 But this, but can you, you mind elaborating on this thing?

Jimmy Dore 17:05 Yeah, so, so I, I couldn't fix it by stretching. I couldn't fix it-

Joe Rogan 17:09 Okay. I was, I was just joking about that, but, but, so what does it do to your... It's making your bones shrink, literally?

Jimmy Dore 17:15 Yeah, so it gives you, yeah, so it gives you osteoporosis and then my bones got hollow like a old lady.

Joe Rogan 17:19 Whoa.

Jimmy Dore 17:20 And then, uh, my spine collapsed when I stepped off, uh-

Joe Rogan 17:22 What?

Jimmy Dore 17:22 ... I stepped off a curb, and too hard. And they, they, they didn't know what it was. I don't like talking about it too much, but, uh, they told me all different kinds of things. "Oh, it's your muscles, it's your nerves, it's in your head, it's in this." And, and, um, I was limping for a few years and people were always like, "How you doing?" I'm like, "Oh, I'll be all right." And, uh, you know, 'cause no one likes to hear about anybody else's-

Joe Rogan 17:42 Right.

Jimmy Dore 17:42 And so, um, and then, uh, when that happened, they were like, "Oh no, it's your bones." I was like, "You motherfuckers." So everybody told me that you should go... So I started going to bone doctors and everybody told me I should go see this guy, Dr. Charles Sharp. And I called him and he was expensive and he didn't take insurance. And so I was like, "Well, I'll go to someone he trained." So I would go to someone he trained, I wouldn't get any better after six months. I go to someone else he trained, they wouldn't get any better. So finally I was just about to die, and, uh, (laughs) I went to hi- to see him. I was like, I'm just gonna pay the money and go see him, and, uh...... he, he figured out what it was like that. And he- Really? ... he says to me, he goes, "You know, no one in the... Nowhere you go, no one's gonna know where th- what this is." I go, "Yeah, I know. I've already been everywhere." And he said, "I only saw this once before in 1968." (laughs) And he says, "And you have it." Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. So then they- What causes it? Uh, it was just, uh, my, my own... They didn't know at the time. He thought I... It was a tumor, but they fi- since figured out it was just my own bones leaching a hormone that makes your body, uh, leach the chemicals that I need to make bone. So anyway, this is boring, but, um- No, it's not boring at all. So, uh, he fixed me and I started- How did he fix you? He just diagnosed me, what was wrong and what I needed. And so I need to take supplements, right, uh, t- f- for my bones to make bone. Like, some people take calcium, so I take this thing called phosphorus, 'cause you need phosphorus and calcium and vitamin D to make bone. Right. So, um, the... So then we did that, and it was amazing, that, you know, he's just an amazing doctor. And, uh, he's very right wing, uh, as far as I can tell, right? We... He, he doesn't like to talk politics, but, uh, it comes up. And, uh, he was in the military and all this stuff, and, uh, he's just a great guy. I just love him. He's so smart. He's so smart. And, uh, he fixed me. So, getting back to when I was gonna kill myself. (laughs) So, when I f- saft off the curb and I shrunk... (laughs) And I was shrunk even more. They did an operation that gave me about an inch back. I was even shorter, right? So I'm like, "Holy fuck." I'm like, "This is hor- this is..." Like, I wanted to kill my- I was literally gonna kill myself. What was the operation they did? They had to put something on your spine? Kyphoplasty. Mm-hmm. Like a bar or something like that, to keep you from collapsing? The... It's cement. They puff it up and then they stick cement in it. (laughs) Oh, Jesus Christ. I know, right? (laughs) Anyway, but, uh, so I was serious. I was like... I, I, I cried one day, I couldn't stop. I didn't, I didn't know how to stop. And my eyes puffed up, like I couldn't see almost. (laughs) And I was gonna do it. I was like, "Oh, I'll just kill myself." And, and the only thing that kept me from not killing myself was my manager called me and he said, "Hey," I go, "You got that hour special on Comedy Central." Comedy Central saved your life. I was like, "What?" And I talk about it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Wow. I could not bel-... I'm like, "What?" And then I just knew I had to do this special, because I couldn't let all those motherfuckers who said I would- I shouldn't move to LA and be a com-... I couldn't let them win. It was about that. It was about, "I'm gonna show everybody who doubted me and said I was crazy and b- could... I'm gonna show them. I'm gonna do this goddamn special, it's gonna be fucking awesome, and then I'll kill myself." (laughs) Jesus Christ, Jimmy. And by the time... So I had to get this... Uh, anyway, long stories. Um, I had to get this operation on my leg, it was the Bo Jackson surgery. You got a hip replacement? And it was a... The thigh bone was die- de- dying. And, uh, I went to... So, my doctor sends me to this other doctor who invented the operation at USC. And I walk into the office, just like my doctor predicted. He's looking at my chart and he looks up and he goes, "What? I've only seen this in books." Meaning what I have. Wow. And I was like, "That's what Dr. Sharp said." And so he was gonna give me this operation. He goes, "We're gonna take this bone out from your shin, we're gonna put it in there." Ah. "And then you can't step on that foot for six months straight." And I said, "I have a, I have a hour special I'm taping in eight months." I go, "So, uh, I can't do this operation." He goes, "Well, your thigh could just snap at any moment." And I go, "I guess that's the chance (laughs) I gotta take." Holy shit. 'Cause if I can't do this special, I'm gonna kill myself anyway. Eh, give a fuck, right? Wow. So, uh, by the time we got to do the special eight months later, Dr. Sharp's treatment had kicked in, and they didn't know it was going to fix it, but it fixed it. They were like, "It fixed it." Holy shit, that you could've got that crazy operation for nothing? Yep, for nothing. Fuck, man. So- So, I- ... his treatment is just supplements? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And do you take that to this day? It's every day. Every time I eat, I have to take two p- phosphorus pills. Did you, did you alter your diet? Uh, no. He just, he tells me to make sure I eat meat, 'cause I need the, whatever i- that's in it I need. The stuff? Yeah. Whatever's in it. (laughs) Whatever the good stuff is? He, he'll look at me, like... He goes, "You're from Chicago, right?" And I go, "Yeah." He goes, "You eat meat," uh, like that. (laughs) Like, "You're not one of those." Yeah. (laughs) Fucking plant-eating assholes. Like, "You're not one of those, are you?" (laughs) Right. And it's sad that I'm turning into one of those now. Goddamn it. What? A plant-eating asshole? Y- Yeah. Well- How so? ...

Jimmy Dore 22:44 I saw this fucking video about cows. I've seen those too. Where they, the c-... No, no, not those. Mm-hmm. So, in the, in, I don't know, Norway or Denmark, I don't know where, somewhere over there, they have a, a law that you have to let the cows out of the barn in the spring at the, on this, by this one day. Oh, you're talking about the one where the cow jumps out and starts bouncing around? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that. And so they all come out and they start jumping around like dogs. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, my god. Yeah, I couldn't eat my dog." Right. You know? And that's, that was the first like, doo-doosh. Like, "Oh, Jesus." And then I accidentally saw this thing of, uh, this video about a pig, and I can't eat pigs anymore. I can't eat porks. Yeah. I can't. And I'm that close to not eating meat, but, um, I eat a lot of pasta. You know I like to eat, I like to cook. But your doctor said, well, pasta's terrible for you. Your doctor- Yeah, I know, right? But I, I have whole wheat pasta. Your doctor said... Oh, that's not any better for you. That's not better? No. No, it's terrible for you. Whole wheat pasta has the same amount of gluten in it, it's the same amount of sugars in it. It's n- it's maybe slightly better than refined pasta, like wheat bread is slightly better than white bread, but it's all bullshit. It's all just filler. There's not, there's not... Very few nutrients. It's not... Cinn- eh- uh- But seven-grain bread is better, man. That's all horse shit, man. Bread is horse shit. Ugh. It's not good for you. Don't do this to me. It just is. Wheat is just not a good food. Really? It's a good filler. I mean, if you're starving, it'll keep you alive. I mean, that's literally what they invented it for. Mm-hmm. You know? They ground up wheat and figured out a way to cook it, and... And the wheat that we're eating today is not heirloom wheat. It's all wheat that's been adjusted and genetically modified so that it has higher yield in smaller areas. Like, um, there's a documentary called What's With Wheat? It's really fascinating. Really? Yeah, and they go over the details of, like, what happened with wheat, but it's somewhere around the early 19th century, or the 20th century rather.

Joe Rogan 24:32 ... in early 1900s, they started altering wheat, and they did it so that they can get higher yield in a smaller area. But by doing that, you, you increase the amount of complex glutens in the wheat. It makes it much more difficult for people to digest, and then it's... That's where you see, like, the elevation of all these gluten sensitivity issues, and people are like, "When I was a kid, there was no gluten sensitivity." First of all, nobody knew what the fuck happened. You got fat, you had a heart attack, and you died.

Jimmy Dore 24:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:55 They, they really didn't know. They didn't... They were w- much less aware of why people were fat, but sugars, wheat, those are two of the biggest problems that we have.

Jimmy Dore 25:04 No kidding.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Yeah, it's terrible for you.

Jimmy Dore 25:06 So when I went to this Chinese medicine doctor, um, uh, it was back when I was feeling sick and, um, so I went to... Somebody recommended, "You should go see this Chinese mede-" I'm like, "I'll try whatever." So what he did was he changed my diet. So he's, got, got me off of white sugar, dairy-

Joe Rogan 25:23 Even brown sugar's terrible for you.

Jimmy Dore 25:25 And, I'm su- sure.

Joe Rogan 25:26 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 25:26 And, and, like, and g- and carbs basically.

Joe Rogan 25:29 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Dore 25:29 And, um, he told me not to drink soda. And I said-

Joe Rogan 25:32 Good.

Jimmy Dore 25:32 ... "Well, I drink diet." He goes, "That's worse because of the chemicals in it."

Joe Rogan 25:36 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 25:36 And, um, so I was like, "Holy shit." I, I, I'm like, "Okay." So then he sells me these herbs for 800 bucks, and they're a m- a month's supply. So s- I realized that's all I ate. When I got out of his office, I, like... Every time I eat, I'm eating white flour, I'm eating bread, or a pizza, or a pasta, or a cheese, or... Everything, everything he told me not to eat, that's all I ate. So I was like... They go... I remember my girlfriend said, "How long are you gonna do this?" I go, "At least for a month 'cause that's how much these herbs are, and they're 800 bucks. I don't wanna..." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:04 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 26:04 So by the... By day three, I was leaping out of bed. I could not get over how much energy I had.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Yeah, it's 'cause you don't have that big insulin crash. When you're eating all that sugar and all that bread, your body's just fighting that shit off all the time, trying to process it, and then there's this big crash. Boom.

Jimmy Dore 26:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:21 And then you have to take a nap.

Jimmy Dore 26:22 What do you eat?

Joe Rogan 26:23 I eat mostly meat and avocados and healthy fats and vegetables. But I, I hunt, so I... Everything I eat is wild. So when I'm eating meat, I'm eating elk or deer or something along those lines.

Jimmy Dore 26:36 Now, you c-... You don't feel bad when you see the deer you just shot?

Joe Rogan 26:39 I do feel a sense of loss, but I do also know that this is a wild animal that had no idea what was going on until an arrow hit it. It's not like something that's living in some pen and being tortured-

Jimmy Dore 26:50 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 26:50 ... and, and genetically modified and filled with antibiotics and hormones. It's a wild animal, and their life expectancy is very short. They get taken out by bears and wolves and coyotes and pumas. They don't... They're not making it. None of them are making it. Zero. 0%.

Jimmy Dore 27:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:06 They're starving to death. They're freezing to death. What you're doing is just dipping your foot in the wild w- world. You are d- be- taking part in the cycle of life. And I get-

Jimmy Dore 27:17 So you're against factory farming and stuff?

Joe Rogan 27:18 100%. That's why I became a hunter. I was gonna, either gonna become a vegetarian or I was gonna hunt. Those were my two options. I had to figure out what I was gonna do. And I experimented with vegetarian back when I was fighting to try to make a weight class, um, and it... I didn't like it. It, I just didn't feel good. And then when I started eating meat, I, I did it for, like, six months, and then when I started eating meat, I got way better, like instantly. Like, instantly started gaining muscle, instantly was fighting better, instantly competed better, and I moved up a weight class, and that's when I became my very best. Uh-

Jimmy Dore 27:49 What's your weight class? What did you fight at?

Joe Rogan 27:51 154 is when I, what I moved up to. I was trying to stay at 140, and this was... I fought at 140 only for a year when I was 18. I just couldn't do it.

Jimmy Dore 27:59 Now, did you bring your power with you, Jo- Joe, when you went up to 154?

Joe Rogan 28:02 Yes, I did.

Jimmy Dore 28:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:03 I got bi-... Well, I was... You know, I was 18. I was still growing.

Jimmy Dore 28:05 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 28:06 I was still thickening up.

Jimmy Dore 28:06 Oh, that's young.

Joe Rogan 28:07 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 28:08 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 28:08 So I was artificially keeping my body very, very thin. I was very lean. But my point is that I knew that there... I... When I watched too many of those videos, factory farming videos. Factory farming should be... I mean, fuck insider trading and all the other problems that we have in the world. That's all terrible stuff, right? Terrible stuff. Factory farming is a goddamn crime. It's a horrible crime against life. And the fact that we just do it and that we have ag-gag laws-

Jimmy Dore 28:36 Yes, that's what's cr-

Joe Rogan 28:37 Those... Ugh.

Jimmy Dore 28:38 That's wha-... Well-

Joe Rogan 28:39 They're insane.

Jimmy Dore 28:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Those laws are fucking criminal. They, they're insane.

Jimmy Dore 28:43 It's not America. It's not the America-

Joe Rogan 28:44 It's not.

Jimmy Dore 28:44 ... I thought about.

Joe Rogan 28:45 No.

Jimmy Dore 28:45 I thought, you know, we're supposed to have a free press. That's the equalizer. That's what's difference about us.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Exactly.

Jimmy Dore 28:49 And now they gag the press. You can't talk about crimes. Those are-

Joe Rogan 28:52 Well, they could, they could sue you. They could put you in jail if you film-

Jimmy Dore 28:55 Yes, if you film-

Joe Rogan 28:56 ... these tortured animals.

Jimmy Dore 28:57 ... criminality.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Right.

Jimmy Dore 28:57 If you film a crime.

Joe Rogan 28:58 Right. Exactly.

Jimmy Dore 28:59 So, so they've made... Uh, so what's... There's a, there's some famous saying. Well, you know, "What is... When exposing a crime, is the crime you're ru- ruled by criminals?"

Joe Rogan 29:06 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 29:06 I don't know if that's the quote, but-

Joe Rogan 29:08 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 29:08 ... something like th-... So we, we... By the way, we are (laughs) be-... We're, we're living in a, uh, uh... This is a lawless time, right? So the o- law only applies to the poor. It does not apply to, uh, war criminals. It doesn't apply to Wall Street. It doesn't apply to anybody except-

Joe Rogan 29:23 Giant corporations have figured out a way to skirt the law-

Jimmy Dore 29:26 It, it-

Joe Rogan 29:26 ... with money.

Jimmy Dore 29:27 ... le-... If you steal from rich people, that they will get upset, like Bernie Madoff.

Joe Rogan 29:30 Right.

Jimmy Dore 29:30 That was...

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 29:30 He stole from rich people. That was wrong.

Joe Rogan 29:32 He fucked up.

Jimmy Dore 29:33 But if you're, if you're a Jamie Dimon or if you're Goldman Sachs or if you're... And you steal from poor people or veterans or old ladies, that's fine, that's fine. Tha- then you become Secretary of the Treasury, like Steve Mnuchin.

Joe Rogan 29:43 Mnuchin is one of my favorite evil characters-

Jimmy Dore 29:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:46 ... of the 21st century. When you see him-

Jimmy Dore 29:48 It's like a cartoon.

Joe Rogan 29:49 ... with his wife and his wife has gloves on and they're holding the money-

Jimmy Dore 29:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 29:53 ... and she's smiling, and when she fucking tags, like, Gucci and sh- Cartier and all these different, like, big time companies in her Instagram posts when she's stepping off of a fucking private jet, like-

Jimmy Dore 30:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:04 Holy shit. Look at that picture. I love that picture!

Jimmy Dore 30:07 There it is.

Joe Rogan 30:07 First of all, the fact that she would fuck him, that's a crime. That woman is a thief.

Jimmy Dore 30:12 That's the power of money.

Joe Rogan 30:13 Yeah, I mean, but it's also prostitution. That's, that's a crime.

Jimmy Dore 30:17 You don't think she's hot for him? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:19 No, I do not. I'm d-... I'm gonna be honest with you.

Jimmy Dore 30:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:23 You know? I think if you were there, I'd say, "Okay."

Jimmy Dore 30:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:26 "He's got a funny personality. He's a good guy. She probably enjoys it."

Jimmy Dore 30:29 Ah.

Joe Rogan 30:29 (laughs) You know, it doesn't make any sense. Like-

Jimmy Dore 30:32 But let me p- let me just say this. Now Steve Mnuchin is horrible, and he should probably be in jail. But guess what? He's not in jail, 'cause why? 'Cause a Democrat didn't, didn't prosecute him when she was supposed to. That's Kamala Harris.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 30:44 So she's corrupted by Wall Street too. So you point your finger at him, you're like, "Well the reason why he's there is because the Democratic Party is corrupted." That's why he's there.

Joe Rogan 30:51 What did he do that he should have got put-

Jimmy Dore 30:53 So, he, uh, well, Kamala Harris is, um, so he ran OneWest Bank, and they inter- investigated his bank and they found a thousand instances of criminality. And they said if we-

Joe Rogan 31:04 It's only a thousand, though.

Jimmy Dore 31:05 That's what I say.

Joe Rogan 31:06 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 31:06 It's a thousand. And, uh... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:09 Anything less than a million instances, like, "What the fuck?" It's water under the bridge.

Jimmy Dore 31:13 No, can't be picky.

Joe Rogan 31:13 Little of this, little of that.

Jimmy Dore 31:14 Yeah, you gotta break a few eggs-

Joe Rogan 31:15 Come on.

Jimmy Dore 31:16 ... to make omelets.

Joe Rogan 31:17 I'm making omelets.

Jimmy Dore 31:18 So they said, "And if we investigated, we would find a thousand more instances of criminality." She said, "Don't."

Joe Rogan 31:23 Oh.

Jimmy Dore 31:23 And that was that, and she never had an answer for it. So, and now she's the darling of the corporate class, the, you know, the same people who anointed Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are the same people who are anointing her. So, that's, so that's the problem. That's why I get... So I mean, if you... Barack Obama's entire cabinet, uh, came from an email from Citigroup, okay? So people trying to say that somehow corruption started on January 20th when the, 2017 are fooling themselves, and that's what I'm fighting against-

Joe Rogan 31:52 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 31:52 ... on my show.

Joe Rogan 31:52 You are, and you're one of the only people that are doing that. You're one of the only people that are online that, that you, you're not, you're not obligated to, to shill for the left.

Jimmy Dore 32:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:04 You're not, you're not doing it. But everybody else seems to be. I don't mean everybody else, if you're one of the people that are not, you're like, "Fuck you, Joe Rogan."

Jimmy Dore 32:10 There's just a handful of people who are not, Joe.

Joe Rogan 32:11 There's so few. There's so few that are calling out people in the Democratic Party for what really is going on. Like, I was infuriated when people that I knew, that I was friends with, were trying to tell me that, that Hillary Clinton was a good choice.

Jimmy Dore 32:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:27 That's the same choice. I'm like-

Jimmy Dore 32:28 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 32:29 Look, I don't know if she's murdered people, but I know that I worry that she's murdered people. That's a real ... I really wonder. Like this Seth, Seth Rich shit?

Jimmy Dore 32:37 I know for ... First of all, uh, just le- you don't even need to go there, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:42 No, there's so many other things.

Jimmy Dore 32:43 There's so many other things that we know for a fact.

Joe Rogan 32:45 The Clinton Foundation, for instance.

Jimmy Dore 32:47 So, the Iraq War. I'm, I'm old enough, Joe, to remember when being for the Iraq War was a disqualifier in a Democratic primary.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Right.

Jimmy Dore 32:54 I'm, I'm, that's, that's where I'm from. That's why she lost to Barack Obama the first goddamn time she ran.

Joe Rogan 32:59 Right.

Jimmy Dore 32:59 And all of a sudden, we're supposed to... Now people, like Joy Behar says, "That was a long time ago. Forget about it." Why don't you go tell that to a soldier's, uh, to a mother who's got a dead soldier? Why don't you go tell them that, "Look, just died in a legal war." Why don't you go tell that to a couple hundred thousand Iraqis who are dead? "Get over it. It was a long time ago." You fuck.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 33:15 Anyway, so I remember when that, that, uh, also, uh, the Bill Clinton was no friend to the working man. In fact, he was this demise, starting of the demise of this country. So, a- a- Bill... You know, Ronald Reagan scared the shit out of the Democrats so much that they decided to become like them. And so what Bill Clinton did was he got in bed with Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, big pharma, health insurance, and the Koch brothers. He started a thing called the Democratic Leadership Council with Al Gore. They had executives from the Koch brothers on the Democratic Leadership Council. They completely turned their back on the working man. And what happens when you have two parties that are in bed with management? You get Donald Trump. That's exactly what happened. They gutted welfare at the same time they exploded the prison population, called Black kids super predators. At the same time, they did NAFTA. And then they deregulated Wall Street, which crashed the economy within 10 years. That's what Democrats did. Democrats did shit that Ronald Reagan could only fucking dream about in his wet dreams. They couldn't pass NAFTA. George Bush couldn't pass NAFTA. It took Bill Clinton to do it. Bill Clinton gave the cover to the other corporate Democrats to go along with it. So that was the beginning of the end for the working class in America. In fact now, you know, I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. And that's why a lot of people on the left, uh, came after me, and they still do.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Well, it was confusing to me that you were saying, "Hey if you wanna vote for a real progressive, what about Jill Stein?"

Jimmy Dore 34:34 Yeah, if you... Vote for a party, vote... Here's a pro- program you actually agree with, the Green New Deal.

Joe Rogan 34:39 Right. Right.

Jimmy Dore 34:39 So, and, we know-

Joe Rogan 34:40 But everybody's like, "No, that's a... You're throwing away your vote." Like, how are, how are you throwing away your vote?

Jimmy Dore 34:45 So we all know for a fact because of the Wikileaks emails that Hillary Clinton had a thing called the Pied Piper strategy, which was, she told her minions in the press, "Please prop up Donald Trump. Prop him up." Why did she want Donald Trump to be propped up? 'Cause she wanted to run against Donald Trump because she knew that, uh, she was so repulsive to most of the country, she needed someone who was more repulsive than her.

Joe Rogan 35:07 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 35:07 Turns out that was a bad calculation.

Joe Rogan 35:09 It was a terrible calculation.

Jimmy Dore 35:10 So that's called the Pied Piper strategy, and everybody... That's why the... You turn on Chris Hayes, and he would show Donald Trump's empty podium for an hour instead of a Bernie Sanders. And then he wags his finger at people with no money and no power for not voting for a corporatist warmonger like Hillary Clinton, who just... Why, why do you think the people in Mis- Michigan wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Maybe 'cause she put half of them in fucking prison? Because she passed NAFTA? And Barack Obama was trying to sell TPP at the top of his lungs at the same time she was trying to get working people to vote for her? They knew what the fuck was going on. And that's why half the country doesn't vote. But you're gonna wag your finger at the people who actually do vote, who come out and vote their conscience, and they don't fucking prop up evil? You know what the voting for the lesser of two evil gets you? Donald fucking Trump.

Joe Rogan 35:53 (laughs) Well, there's also o- a really sneaky thing that happens where you have two parties, and one of them you think of as this conservative, warmongering party which automatically makes the other party the, the enemy of that.

Jimmy Dore 36:07 Yeah, but they're not.

Joe Rogan 36:07 They're not. Well-

Jimmy Dore 36:08 We have two pro-war parties, and that's the pro- there's not an opposition party. They oppose Trump on the most ridiculous bullshit. They just voted for an extra $160 billion to go to the war machine. $160 billion. Let's remember, Bernie Sanders wanted to pay for free college, which was somewhere around $65 billion. So, and everybody said, "He's fucking crazy. How are you gonna pay for that?" They just did that in a blink of an eye. They passed $160 billion to a war machine that we don't have an enemy to fight. You know, Russia spends $65 billion a year on their military. They're a paper tiger. We got no fucking enemies out there. We have to keep inventing them. And the last, the last enemy they invented was ISIS. ISIS, I don't know if you're... We're supposed to shit our pants over them, Joe, because they have kitchen knives.... they'll cut your head off with a kitchen knife. That's what I'm supposed to be afraid of? What the fuck? Wha- uh, i- i- it's, it's, it's amazing how they can keep us scared, so they can keep perpetual war going. This is an Orwellian nightmare, and the Democrats right now should be screaming about the Pentagon budget, but they're not screaming about it because they're complicit. They're in it, and that's what's wrong with this country. That's why we can't have nice things. So when-

Joe Rogan 37:11 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 37:11 ... what, w- when they tell you th- that you, we're broke and we can't afford stuff, they don't mean we can't afford trillion-dollar wars, trillion-dollar bank bailouts, billion-dollar oil subsidies, and prison construction. That's not what they mean. They mean we can't afford shit like healthcare or education or roads or bridges or firemen or libraries, or anything that makes your fucking life better. Because whenever they need bombs, they got it. "Hey, we're broke for Social Security. We're broke for Medicare. How about for bombs?" "Oh, we got bomb money. We keep it right next to our fucking drinking money."

Joe Rogan 37:37 Th- that, that is true because we're not really in a war in the sense of, like, World War II or World War I. We're in this weird war of... It's like a calculated war.

Jimmy Dore 37:47 They're all economic wars, Joe.

Joe Rogan 37:48 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 37:48 They're all... Uh, so we went into Iraq for the, uh, er, for the w- oil. Libya is because he wanted to go off the Petrodollar.

Joe Rogan 37:54 But it is stunning-

Jimmy Dore 37:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:55 ... how much funding this kind of war gets versus all the different social programs that we need in this country.

Jimmy Dore 38:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Infrastructure programs.

Jimmy Dore 38:02 Yes. We c- and, and people always think, like, "Well, how are you gonna pay for that?" We don't have to spend any more money. We can actually spend len- less (laughs) money. We don't have to spend $750 billion a year on a military that's bloated. We have thousand bases around the coun- around the world. We don't even know how many bases there are, because lots of them are secret. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:19 So, what do you say to the argument that we need them in order to stay safe?

Jimmy Dore 38:22 It's not true. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:23 That's the big argument, right? The big argument is this is the way we, we've destroyed ISIS 'cause ISIS was on their way to building up and becoming a real threat.

Jimmy Dore 38:31 We invented ISIS.

Joe Rogan 38:31 Well-

Jimmy Dore 38:31 We invited Al-Qaeda and then we invented ISIS.

Joe Rogan 38:33 We c- we certainly aided in their...

Jimmy Dore 38:36 Development.

Joe Rogan 38:37 ... their development. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 38:37 And we then, we, we directly funded them. We directly funded them.

Joe Rogan 38:40 Well, people that don't know the whole Mujahideen story, which was... Osama bin Laden was our guy. He was-

Jimmy Dore 38:45 That was our guy.

Joe Rogan 38:46 He was our guy fighting against the Soviets.

Jimmy Dore 38:48 He was an anti-ru- anti-Russian terr- uh, anti-Russian freedom fighter-

Joe Rogan 38:50 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 38:50 ... is what they called Osama bin Laden.

Joe Rogan 38:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 38:52 And then all of a sudden, they didn't need him anymore. So, and why... And we're still in Afghanistan 17 years later. Three more years, that war gets a gold watch. (mimics explosion) (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:01 And what did they do? I mean, what, what did they do to get us out of there? I mean, literally, what is, what is-

Jimmy Dore 39:07 There, there is-

Joe Rogan 39:07 ... the exit strategy? There's none.

Jimmy Dore 39:09 ... there is no, there is no exit strategy. Never was an exit strategy. There's no exit strategy from the Mideast. In fact, th- they just announced we're gonna be permanently in Syria. So, and by the way, the Syrian war is complete bullshit. Those gas attacks now have been completely debunked. I didn't believe them the first time. Uh-

Joe Rogan 39:23 So, what happened during those gas attacks?

Jimmy Dore 39:25 So, what... That's called a false flag. So-

Joe Rogan 39:27 Right.

Jimmy Dore 39:27 ... what happens is they wanted the United States to come in on their side to bomb Assad, to overthrow him.

Joe Rogan 39:33 Right.

Jimmy Dore 39:33 And, uh, so what they would do is if... They would do a gas attack on their own people and then blame it on Assad. And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 39:39 Has this been, this has been proven?

Jimmy Dore 39:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 39:41 That they did it?

Jimmy Dore 39:41 Yes. And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 39:43 Jesus Christ.

Jimmy Dore 39:44 And the first time was in, I think, 2013 and Barack Obama wanted to bomb. And, uh, and I wa- I knew it was bullshit then.

Joe Rogan 39:50 Well, do you remember when everybody freaked out about that?

Jimmy Dore 39:52 Yes, and then he didn't bomb them.

Joe Rogan 39:54 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 39:54 Remember, he didn't get to bomb them 'cause he-

Joe Rogan 39:55 Everybody was like, "Fuck you."

Jimmy Dore 39:56 Yes.

Joe Rogan 39:57 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 39:57 He goes, "Let's put it to a vote in the Congress." And the people don't want war, Joe.

Joe Rogan 40:00 No.

Jimmy Dore 40:00 So the people said, "Fuck you," and he was like, "Hmm, we're gonna do it anyway." Guess what? They did it anyway. They bombed... They, they dropped so many bombs on Syria, they ran out of bombs. That's a fact, right? So the Air Force was out of bombs.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Who s- Which year was this that they did this?

Jimmy Dore 40:12 So was it 2015 that they dropped so many bombs in the Mideast they ran out of bombs? That's just a fucking fact. Look it up.

Joe Rogan 40:18 Well, if you buy all these bombs, you have to use them.

Jimmy Dore 40:20 You gotta use them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:21 I mean, what are you gonna do with them?

Jimmy Dore 40:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:24 They're just gonna sit around? And what if somebody accidentally sets one off while they're in American soil?

Jimmy Dore 40:28 E-

Joe Rogan 40:28 We don't want that.

Jimmy Dore 40:29 We can't have that happen.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Can't have that.

Jimmy Dore 40:31 So, and here's the weird thing that the left is doing right now. They're attacking Donald Trump from the right, and what do I mean by that? So when they want D- so they say Donald Trump is a Putin puppet, and the only way you can prove you're not a Putin puppet is you gotta bomb somebody. You gotta bomb Syria. Remember that? They were like, "Oh, he's president today 'cause he bombed Syria." Remember that fucking... Brian Williams almost nutted in his pants.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Well, yeah, all he bombed was airstrips.

Jimmy Dore 40:56 So that's what they're saying.

Joe Rogan 40:57 Right.

Jimmy Dore 40:57 So they go, "Oh, oh, they bombed airstrips? Oh, you didn't... You bombed the old planes and not the new planes?" So what that is, you're attacking Donald Trump from the right.

Joe Rogan 41:05 Right.

Jimmy Dore 41:05 Because left people-

Joe Rogan 41:06 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 41:06 ... are supposed to be for detente and you're supposed to be antiwar and anti- uh, um, anti-empire, right? So when you attack Donald Trump going, "Oh, he didn't really bomb them," you're attacking them from the right. You're saying he should be more militaristic, which is fucked up.

Joe Rogan 41:20 Well, it supports the argument that everything is circular, right? That as far right as you get and as far left as you get, you really come to some sort of strange ideological point-

Jimmy Dore 41:29 That-

Joe Rogan 41:29 ... like zero point.

Jimmy Dore 41:30 ... that can be true, but not in this instance, because what's happening there is corporate right-wing Democrats (laughs) are attacking Trump for not being right enough. What you're talking about is where I'm at, where I'm antiwar, and then there's also antiwar and anti-interventionist people on the right. So a lot of people voted for Donald Trump because of that, because he always said he was an anti-interventionist. He was gonna get us out of the Middle East-

Joe Rogan 41:52 Right.

Jimmy Dore 41:52 ... it was crazy to be there, and bring our boys home and all. And that's why a lot of people did vote for Trump because of that.

Joe Rogan 41:57 Right.

Jimmy Dore 41:58 And, um, and that's why, uh, a lot of people said they felt more comfortable voting for Trump 'cause he was... 'Cause Hillary actually promised more war in Syria than he did, and we... And, and that's turning out to be true, uh, because she wanted a no-fly zone, which means we're gonna shoot down a Russian jet. Are you fucking crazy?

Joe Rogan 42:14 Right.

Jimmy Dore 42:14 So, um, I, I, uh, w- I'm on the, I'm on the left antiwar. There's no antiwar movement in, in the country that's represented by a political party right now.

Joe Rogan 42:25 Do you think that this right, though, the, the w- the way the left is attacking Donald Trump from the right, as you say it, don't you think it's just 'cause they see an opening there to criticize and to, to point out his vulnerabilities?

Jimmy Dore 42:37 E- what they're doing, uh, this whole Russia narrative i-... is the establishment not wanting to examine the system that gave us Donald Trump, and so they wanna distract you with Russia until we get to the next election-

Joe Rogan 42:48 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 42:48 ... and it's working.

Joe Rogan 42:49 Yes. That's ex- that's a very good way of putting it, distract you from a system that's archaic, and outdated, and doesn't work, and-

Jimmy Dore 42:56 Why do people vote no-

Joe Rogan 42:57 ... completely corrupt.

Jimmy Dore 42:57 ... they're, they're not asking the question anymore, why did people vote for Donald Trump? In fact, the only time they asked it, they took the shittiest answer, was 'cause of racism.

Joe Rogan 43:04 Right.

Jimmy Dore 43:04 Really, the same country that voted for Barack Obama twice, all this-

Joe Rogan 43:06 Well, somebody just bo- doubled down on that the other day.

Jimmy Dore 43:09 That's just so fucking-

Joe Rogan 43:10 Someone, someone was saying-

Jimmy Dore 43:11 Are there racists-

Joe Rogan 43:11 Ginsburg.

Jimmy Dore 43:12 Are there racists who voted for Donald Trump? Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:14 Of course.

Jimmy Dore 43:15 So what, you know, (sighs) it's-

Joe Rogan 43:17 Alonzo Bodden said it best.

Jimmy Dore 43:18 What?

Joe Rogan 43:18 He said, "Not all Trump supporters are racist, but all racists are Trump supporters."

Jimmy Dore 43:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:24 Fucking Alonzo. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 43:26 (laughs) That's a-

Joe Rogan 43:26 Great line. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 43:27 ... um, and, and, you know, I went to a Trump rally, and, and it was disgusting and scary, and it was all xenophobia, and it was all race. It was worse than I thought it was gonna be. Um, but what-

Joe Rogan 43:38 Well, he found, he tapped into that, but what's interesting about him tapping into that is this is not something that he had been chiming on-

Jimmy Dore 43:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:44 ... about for years.

Jimmy Dore 43:45 No.

Joe Rogan 43:45 He was a democrat-

Jimmy Dore 43:46 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... for the longest time.

Jimmy Dore 43:47 He's not an ideologue, which is, you know, I heard when he got into office, he was like, "Why don't we just give everybody Medicare?" Which is, of course, the answer.

Joe Rogan 43:54 Right.

Jimmy Dore 43:54 Just give everybody Medicare-

Joe Rogan 43:55 Well, you know-

Jimmy Dore 43:56 ... and, and save this money.

Joe Rogan 43:57 ... what he was saying about instead of food stamps is give them food. He's like, "We have this issue with people where they buy cigarettes and booze and stuff with food stamps. Just, let's just give them food." It's not a bad idea.

Jimmy Dore 44:07 That's not, that's not a bad idea.

Joe Rogan 44:08 I mean, if it's, if it's healthy, good food-

Jimmy Dore 44:10 Uh-

Joe Rogan 44:10 ... I mean, have, have places where people can go and pick up healthy, good food. That might be a very good idea.

Jimmy Dore 44:16 You know, uh, we need an infrastructure plan in the United States.

Joe Rogan 44:19 Yes.

Jimmy Dore 44:20 And, you know, FDR did that, right? He gave old people retirement. He gave young people a job. He put p- he gave people dignity. He gave them a job, and he said, "If you're willing to work, you'll have a job." Remember that, the old saying when I grew up was, "There gonna be a, a chicken in every pot and a car-"

Joe Rogan 44:37 Right.

Jimmy Dore 44:37 ... "in every garage," or something like that?

Joe Rogan 44:38 Something like that.

Jimmy Dore 44:39 And, uh, they don't say that shit anymore, right? Because the government is not there to help you anymore.

Joe Rogan 44:43 But the government does pretend that they are. I mean-

Jimmy Dore 44:45 Yes, they do.

Joe Rogan 44:46 ... one, one thing that Trump is going on about is how much job l- I mean, how many more people are working today than before. African American unemployment is at the lowest point in 40 years. The economy's booming, all these different things.

Jimmy Dore 44:58 The economy, when they say the economy's booming, they mean Wall Street is booming.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Right, stock market.

Jimmy Dore 45:02 But there's no correlation between Wall Street and regular people's lives.

Joe Rogan 45:06 There's not?

Jimmy Dore 45:07 Uh, well, the stock market has been booming. Uh, I remember I got called into CNN to do a thing when the stock market cro- crossed 13,000. Now it's up 25,000, and that was a big watershed moment. That was just, uh, like eight years ago I got called in to do that at CNN. That was like, "Oh my God, we..." So we've gone, we've doubled the stock market. People's paychecks haven't doubled. People's lives gotten worse, actually.

Joe Rogan 45:28 How, but, uh, I have a problem with saying that, because there's just too many people you're dealing with. When you say, "People's lives have gotten worse," like, uh, how many, what people?

Jimmy Dore 45:37 Well, I'll tell you-

Joe Rogan 45:37 There's too many people.

Jimmy Dore 45:38 ... so 63% of the country can't afford a $1,000 emergency. Half the country right now is either poor or low income.

Joe Rogan 45:45 Right.

Jimmy Dore 45:45 30 to 50% of all wage earners earn less than $30,000 a year in the richest country in the world. Jack Ma, who is the Jeff Bezos of Asia, he runs the, the Amazon of Asia, and he said, "You know, the problem with the United States isn't making money. It's that you guys don't distribute it right."

Joe Rogan 46:02 Ooh, that's some communist shit coming over from China. You gonna let that slide by, Jimmy Dore?

Jimmy Dore 46:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:06 But, uh-

Jimmy Dore 46:06 Well, it's called those communist billionaires are buying-

Joe Rogan 46:08 Right.

Jimmy Dore 46:08 ... up all our real estate.

Joe Rogan 46:09 It's true.

Jimmy Dore 46:09 How the fuck did a socialist country produce all those billionaires?

Joe Rogan 46:12 Well go to... Well, they, as soon as they got into communism, or into capitalism rather, they, they did it in a very ruthless way. I mean, you look at what... It's really kinda fucked up, like what's going on with some of the places where we buy our goods, like Foxconn, where they make iPhones.

Jimmy Dore 46:27 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:27 They have nets around the building-

Jimmy Dore 46:28 Thank you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:28 ... to keep people from fucking jumping off. But when Trump has been in office for only a year, he can't expect all those things to change, but his argument has been that those things are improving. You think that it's all, it's all horse shit?

Jimmy Dore 46:40 Yes. In fact-

Joe Rogan 46:41 So why is African American unemployment at the lowest rate that it's been in 40 years? Is that because it's unreported, like mean-

Jimmy Dore 46:46 'Cause so there's-

Joe Rogan 46:46 ... when people stop looking for jobs, they report, they, they-

Jimmy Dore 46:49 That's-

Joe Rogan 46:49 ... stop counting those as being unemployed.

Jimmy Dore 46:51 So there's that.

Joe Rogan 46:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 46:53 And, you know-

Joe Rogan 46:53 They stop taking unemployment and they stop looking for jobs.

Jimmy Dore 46:56 So they don't count them.

Joe Rogan 46:56 Right, they don't count them, but they're still unemployed.

Jimmy Dore 46:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:58 It's a real sneaky statistic.

Jimmy Dore 47:00 Yes. (laughs) Yes. Also, uh-

Joe Rogan 47:02 I would really like it if someone was honest about that.

Jimmy Dore 47:05 I would like it too. Like, what's the real unemployment rate?

Joe Rogan 47:07 Right, right.

Jimmy Dore 47:07 That's what we wanna know. What's the real unemployment rate?

Joe Rogan 47:09 How, how would we find that out though?

Jimmy Dore 47:10 I don't know. Maybe, I know there's a guy named Mark Blyth. He would probably know what it is. Uh, he's an economist. He, uh, he coined a term, global Trumpism. And, uh, he, he has a great line. Uh, he tells the elites, uh, about how we're running, they're running the economy. Of course, I'm gonna butcher it, but he says, uh, "You know, the Hamptons aren't a defensible position. It's a low-lying area." He's got a Scottish accent. "The Hamptons are, it's a low-lying area."

Joe Rogan 47:35 That's a very bad area to be, yeah.

Jimmy Dore 47:37 Not a defensible position, meaning when the fucking people come for you, they're gonna... You're, you're dead.

Joe Rogan 47:42 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 47:42 You-

Joe Rogan 47:42 Yeah. It's not like there's a military base in the Hamptons.

Jimmy Dore 47:44 Right, right. You're not up on a hill.

Joe Rogan 47:46 Good fishing, though.

Jimmy Dore 47:46 People can get to you. So-

Joe Rogan 47:48 A lot of gold diggers.

Jimmy Dore 47:49 So the jobs suck. Everybody's job sucks, and, uh, we know we, we, we hollowed out the unions. NAFTA was the crushing blow to the unions in this country. And, um, you know, uh, we need... Unions is one of the, one of the things that actually, uh, cush- cushions the blow of the brutalities of a free market, right? So you have unions, you have social programs because capitalism fucks everybody, and so you have to have all these things in place to kinda cushion the blow of it. And we got, we got rid of them, right? Bill Clinton gutted welfare at the same time he did NAFTA. I mean, and then he exploded the prison population. I mean-

Joe Rogan 48:25 But people that I know that were in unions, particularly some friends that I have-

Jimmy Dore 48:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:29 ... that were in the auto union were saying that it was getting completely bloated. They were doing... They were having two people doing a job that was only for one person, and there was all this... There, there was all this real wanton, purposeful waste. And this was all designed into certain contracts. This is a buddy of mine that was-

Jimmy Dore 48:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:49 ... an auto worker in Detroit. He said, "We had shifts..."... where there was supposed to be two people on the job, but everybody knew it was a real simple thing. You work a machine, so I would work four hours and he would work four hours. Or I would work a day and he would work a day, but we both punched in. And that was just ... It was just common, and there was several of those. And he goes, "And you were getting $100,000 a year, $200,000 a year for some jobs." It was just ridiculous amounts of money for jobs that really didn't warrant that kind of income. And he said this was all negotiated into the contract. He's like, "The ... it's a good thing to give fair wages and healthy wages and, and health insurance," and all these different things he said, but it was unquestionably bloated, which opened the door to all these factories going to Mexico and all these other places.

Jimmy Dore 49:30 Well, what opened the door for those factories going ... Why, why w- ... F- I would say two things to that. First of all, it doesn't ... It's kind of anti-logical to think that the union would say, "No, we're not gonna negotiate on this, and go ahead and take our jobs, both of those jobs, to Mexico." So what-

Joe Rogan 49:44 I don't think they had a chance.

Jimmy Dore 49:45 Num- right. Number two is, if you look at the strongest economies, right? You look at Germany, they have strong unions.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 49:50 Japan, they have strong unions. And by the way, the unions sit on their boards.

Joe Rogan 49:54 Well, there was also ... It was a real problem in the 1980s and, uh, I guess a little bit in the late '70s when the oil crisis happened. America was making dog shit cars.

Jimmy Dore 50:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 They were just making ter- terrible cars.

Jimmy Dore 50:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:05 And then Japanese were making these cars that were goddamn bulletproof.

Jimmy Dore 50:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:08 Like, you'd make ... You'd buy a Toyota Corolla and that fucking thing would go 400,000, 500,000 miles without a single problem. You know, you buy an Oldsmobile and that thing would shit the bed inside of a month and a half and you'd be fucking furious. And everybody was like, "Buy American, buy American." And a lot of people were like, "Well, fuck you, man. You're making shitty cars." These goddamn ... I b- I bought a Dodge Daytona.

Jimmy Dore 50:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:29 I had it for maybe three months and the handle fell off in my hand.

Jimmy Dore 50:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 50:34 I went to open the door and it came off in my hand. I'm like, "You motherfucker." And that was, like, one of the first cars ... Like, it was the first car I ever bought.

Jimmy Dore 50:43 That's some ... I was ... Well, I, I was a road comic. I'm like, "I have to buy a Honda."

Joe Rogan 50:47 Right.

Jimmy Dore 50:47 "I'm a road comic."

Joe Rogan 50:47 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 50:48 "I can't ..." This was been, uh, early '90s. I'm like, "I have to buy a car that I can rely on in the winter."

Joe Rogan 50:52 I had the same thing. I had an Accord.

Jimmy Dore 50:53 Yeah, I had a Civic, so-

Joe Rogan 50:54 They're the best.

Jimmy Dore 50:55 (laughs) Yeah. It did, it worked-

Joe Rogan 50:56 They never break.

Jimmy Dore 50:57 They never broke. So, uh, so I would look at that. Unions, it's not the problem. The unions aren't the problem. Yeah, in fact, unions are an answer to the problem, and if you look at the economies everyone wants to be l- like. Look at Germany. And by the way, the German, uh, unions just won the right for a 28-hour ... To work 28 hours a week and they got a 4% pay raise.

Joe Rogan 51:16 I would say that's eight hours too much.

Jimmy Dore 51:18 (laughs) I would agree with you.

Joe Rogan 51:20 I really ... I really think ... I mean, I was talking about this-

Jimmy Dore 51:21 People work too much.

Joe Rogan 51:21 ... yesterday with Johann Hari who wrote a book on depression and one of the major causes being the way people live their lives, without control, doing things they don't wanna do. And he was saying that somewhere in the neighborhood of 87% of the people are doing things they don't want to be doing most of the time. Do- for, for a job. And I was, I was making the argument that we, we, we've set up this structure that's just completely ridiculous and we've stuck with it because it's just the way we've always done things. This 40-hour work week plus overtime. It's chaos. You're l-

Jimmy Dore 51:51 Well-

Joe Rogan 51:51 You're losing your life.

Jimmy Dore 51:52 And by the way, we'd be working more if it wasn't for unions.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 51:55 We have a weekend-

Joe Rogan 51:56 You're right.

Jimmy Dore 51:56 ... because of unions.

Joe Rogan 51:57 Right.

Jimmy Dore 51:57 Right?

Joe Rogan 51:57 Which goes back to the Foxconn thing.

Jimmy Dore 51:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:59 They don't have unions and they have fucking nets around their building and dormitories where they li- where they work.

Jimmy Dore 52:03 So that's some people say about Amazon too, and my whole thing is, like, people's like, "Why do you still ... You know, you can't use Amazon. You can't..." I'm like, "You know, it's so hard to live off the grid." You know what I mean? It's like, uh, I drive a car, so I'm gonna have to buy gas from Exxon or Shell.

Joe Rogan 52:17 Right.

Jimmy Dore 52:17 All right, so does that make me a bad lefty 'cause I'm supporting an oil company?

Joe Rogan 52:20 You're supposed to get a Prius, bro.

Jimmy Dore 52:21 (laughs) You know? I mean, you still put gas in a Prius.

Joe Rogan 52:23 Oh, that's right. You gotta get a Tesla.

Jimmy Dore 52:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:25 But then you're rich. You're a piece of shit.

Jimmy Dore 52:26 But then you're rich. Yeah. Then you're a fucking di-

Joe Rogan 52:28 Well, the Tesla 3 is a cheaper one, right? It's like $50,000 or something?

Jimmy Dore 52:31 But if you get the shit you want on it, it's still-

Joe Rogan 52:33 It's still-

Jimmy Dore 52:33 ... gonna cost more.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Right.

Jimmy Dore 52:34 You want a ac.

Joe Rogan 52:35 Son of a bitches.

Jimmy Dore 52:36 (laughs) You want an electric win-

Joe Rogan 52:37 Right. What you gotta do is you gotta get an old car, like an old Civic and then rebuild it.

Jimmy Dore 52:41 Yeah. Well, the, the, the ... Uh, I lease now.

Joe Rogan 52:44 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 52:44 I don't buy cars. That's a scam, I think, buying cars. But anyway, um-

Joe Rogan 52:48 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 52:48 Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:48 It is for the most part, but not if you buy classic cars.

Jimmy Dore 52:51 Well ... Oh, no. That's different.

Joe Rogan 52:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 52:52 Definitely. If you're Jay- if you're Jay Leno.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Yeah. Hey, how are you doing?

Jimmy Dore 52:56 Hey. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:56 You have to stick your chin out when you do that. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 52:57 Boy, his new show is fantastic.

Joe Rogan 52:59 It's really good.

Jimmy Dore 53:00 That car show is ... That i- ... That's the show I wish he would've been doing all along.

Joe Rogan 53:03 I've said the exact same thing.

Jimmy Dore 53:03 Are you kidding me?

Joe Rogan 53:04 Yes. I said it to him.

Jimmy Dore 53:05 I couldn't believe how much I liked it.

Joe Rogan 53:06 I like him.

Jimmy Dore 53:07 I like him on that show.

Joe Rogan 53:08 Yes. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 53:09 That's the ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:10 Well, you know why? It's because he's passionate.

Jimmy Dore 53:13 I like him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:14 It's like that's who he really is.

Jimmy Dore 53:16 That's who he was.

Joe Rogan 53:16 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 53:16 You know, when you would watch him interview someone, you could tell, uh, he didn't give a fuck about the question he was asking.

Joe Rogan 53:22 Do you remember the Bill Hicks bit?

Jimmy Dore 53:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:24 Bill Hicks bit about him-

Jimmy Dore 53:24 Of course I do.

Joe Rogan 53:25 ... interviewing ... Who the fuck?

Jimmy Dore 53:26 Hey, Joey. Hey, Joey Lawrence.

Joe Rogan 53:27 Joey Lawrence. That's right. (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 53:28 "So you've got a car now, are you driving?"

Joe Rogan 53:29 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 53:30 "You driving?"

Joe Rogan 53:30 "You got a girlfriend?"

Jimmy Dore 53:31 "You got a girlfriend?"

Joe Rogan 53:32 Yeah. No. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 53:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:33 And then Bill H- Bill Hicks would have, uh, Jay Leno reach into his drawer and pull out an Uzi and stick it in his mouth. "I used to be a fucking real comic."

Jimmy Dore 53:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:42 And he blows his brains out and it forms an NBC peacock in the, on the wall.

Jimmy Dore 53:47 On the wall behind him.

Joe Rogan 53:48 'Cause he's a company man to the bitter end.

Jimmy Dore 53:50 That was the best.

Joe Rogan 53:50 And he had him, he had him reloading. (imitates gun firing)

Jimmy Dore 53:53 (imitates gun firing) Oh, my God. What has he become?

Joe Rogan 53:56 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 53:56 Well, that's the weirdest thing. You know, Jay Leno is-

Joe Rogan 53:59 (sighs) .

Jimmy Dore 53:59 ... my ... Again, one of my f- ... One of my inspirations to become a comedian, because-

Joe Rogan 54:03 Back in the early day.

Jimmy Dore 54:04 Yeah, and I would tell people that-

Joe Rogan 54:06 Yeah, I know.

Jimmy Dore 54:06 ... and they were like, "Huh?"

Joe Rogan 54:07 I know.

Jimmy Dore 54:07 'Cause they only knew him from The Tonight Show.

Joe Rogan 54:08 I know.

Jimmy Dore 54:09 And I'm like, "I don't know what he's doing on that show, but he's the funniest guy in the world."

Joe Rogan 54:12 It would be like if Dave Chappelle-

Jimmy Dore 54:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:14 ... before he did Chappelle's Show, decided to host a talk show and then completely stopped anything controversial and completely stopped having an opinion on anything.

Jimmy Dore 54:25 If you look at that ... When Jay Leno used to go on David Letterman.

Joe Rogan 54:28 Oh, he was the guy.

Jimmy Dore 54:29 Oh. It ... I mean, it was-

Joe Rogan 54:31 He was the guy. He was edgy and-

Jimmy Dore 54:32 It wa-

Joe Rogan 54:33 ... dangerous.

Jimmy Dore 54:33 Super edgy.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 54:34 Super edgy.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 54:35 Um, he, he made fun of corporate America like nobody's business.

Joe Rogan 54:39 He was a sharp comic.

Jimmy Dore 54:40 He was ... He was the ... Um, the best comic.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 54:43 And, uh, so that's why it was funny, uh, when he, when he got The Tonight Show. I di- I just didn't think he showed off his talents.

Joe Rogan 54:49 No. He ... But for him, that was making it. He'd made it.

Jimmy Dore 54:53 Yeah, that was in his head.

Joe Rogan 54:54 In his head. Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 54:55 That's it. This is what it's supposed-

Joe Rogan 54:56 So in our, in our heads, we were like, "What?"... "Did you miss everything?" Like, "What the fuck are you doing?" You know when I- I- I was on- Oh. ... The Tonight Show. Oh, okay. And, um, a couple times... One time I was on, and during the break I sat there with Jay, and I- I said, I think it was the first time I was on, I said, "Hey man," I go, "What was up with that Bill Hicks bit?"

Jimmy Dore 55:16 (smacks lips)

Joe Rogan 55:16 I go, "What- what was-" No! Shit! ... that about?" Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I had to, I had to ask.

Jimmy Dore 55:20 Ugh!

Joe Rogan 55:21 'Cause I was like, "What are the odds I wanna be on that show again?" I'm like, "I'm on once." I think it was the Fear Factor days, which is like, in the early Fear Factor days I was 100% convinced that show was canceled any second now, so I'm like- Oh, really? ... "This is my one chance to get on the Jay Leno show. Let me ask him some questions." So he's like, "So, Joe, you- you li- like doin' that Joe?" And uh-

Jimmy Dore 55:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:39 ... I go, "Yeah, yeah. It's not bad." I go, "Hey man, let me ask you this." I go, "What was up with that Bill Hicks thing," right? And, uh, his take on it was, "You know, well, I wanted to do jokes for everybody, you know. I wanted to do comedy for everybody, and uh, Bill just didn't believe in doing comedy for everybody." I thought it was interesting. He just... I don't think he expected me to ask it to him. You know-

Jimmy Dore 55:58 I didn't-

Joe Rogan 55:58 ... I had him on the podcast and he was fuckin' fantastic, 'cause after he'd retired, he told some stories about doin' standup for mob people-

Jimmy Dore 56:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:05 ... and about this guy fuckin' screaming at a priest, "You fuckin' motherfucker, put the fuckin'"... And- and- and it was a hilarious thing to watch Jay Leno telling hilarious stories and swearing like a fuckin' longshoreman. And I was like, "Wow! This is cra..." You're a regular guy. Like, you've always been a regular guy. You were just doing the Tonight Show thing.

Jimmy Dore 56:27 And I heard stories about Jay that he, uh, he loved to watch hacky comedy. And the reason why this stuck in my head was because I used to do that too with, uh, Todd Glass. We would-

Joe Rogan 56:39 (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 56:40 Uh, we would... If the- if the- the worse the comedian, the better.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Right.

Jimmy Dore 56:43 We'd have, we have three specials lined up for a night.

Joe Rogan 56:46 (laughs) Ah!

Jimmy Dore 56:46 We were like, "Fuck! This is gonna be great!"

Joe Rogan 56:48 Ugh!

Jimmy Dore 56:48 And I, we found out after... I found out in r- that Jay Leno used to do the same thing. When he would see a comic that he didn't think, you know, he thought was horrible, he would tr- hunt down a tape of it and then everyone would have to come over to his house and they'd watch it.

Joe Rogan 57:01 (sighs) Oh...

Jimmy Dore 57:02 That's just, this is a story I heard. So maybe this is, but that's just-

Joe Rogan 57:04 I'm sure it's true. I'm sure-

Jimmy Dore 57:05 And I'm like, "Holy fuck, that's what I (laughs) that's what we-

Joe Rogan 57:08 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 57:09 ... do."

Joe Rogan 57:09 Well, he just turned everything mild, you know. He turned everything mild for many, many years and-

Jimmy Dore 57:13 It just didn't, it just wasn't who- who he was or what made me like him, and it-

Joe Rogan 57:17 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 57:17 It confused me, and I felt personally let down by him. I felt like he let down comedy, because now he was supposed to show the old people what the new people were doing in comedy-

Joe Rogan 57:27 Right.

Jimmy Dore 57:27 ... and then he just kind of didn't.

Joe Rogan 57:29 But now you see him and he's, like, a very likable person.

Jimmy Dore 57:32 He-

Joe Rogan 57:33 He's fun, like his show is fun.

Jimmy Dore 57:35 That's true! But it's because exactly he's talking-

Joe Rogan 57:37 Passion.

Jimmy Dore 57:37 ... about shit he cares about.

Joe Rogan 57:38 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 57:39 That show was not made for him, The Tonight Show.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Right.

Jimmy Dore 57:41 Even though he- he was the number one show, so what do we know? Right? It was still the number one show, so maybe I'm wrong.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Well, it was a different thing, you know, because like Letterman w- seemed passionate. Like, he seemed to be enjoying it. And when he would say, like, witty things and sharp things to people, he would- you could tell he was getting like a little bit of a thrill out of it.

Jimmy Dore 58:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:00 It was like, there was some excitement to Letterman's position that you didn't sense with Jay Leno. Jay Leno was just like, "Well, you know, making everybody happy."

Jimmy Dore 58:08 So the- the thing I liked about late night c- uh, shows when I was younger was that there was a sense of danger, that anything could happen. You didn't know what was gonna happen, right?

Joe Rogan 58:17 Right.

Jimmy Dore 58:17 Uh, Burt Reynolds was gonna come out drunk, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 58:21 Boo! Right! (laughs)

Jimmy Dore 58:21 You know, shit like that. And they used to smoke.

Joe Rogan 58:23 Yeah!

Jimmy Dore 58:24 And, you know, there was... And they would talk about things. They were a talk show. They would actually talk about things.

Joe Rogan 58:28 Right.

Jimmy Dore 58:28 And I, you know, watch Dick Cavett, and he would... Yeah, I remember he had, uh, uh, uh, Mort Sahl come out with Jane Fonda and Peter Fonda right after the Easy Rider came out, and they're all talking and you're like, "This is a fucking..."

Joe Rogan 58:41 Right.

Jimmy Dore 58:41 And that's counterculture and it's right on... And so it was really good. That's when shows were g- But now shows are-

Joe Rogan 58:46 Now it's dead.

Jimmy Dore 58:47 Now they're all fluff. It's all fucking bubblegum bullshit.

Joe Rogan 58:50 Well, all that stuff is... Well, there was an outlet for that though, and it was filled by comedy in podcasts.

Jimmy Dore 58:55 Yeah, so now podcasts-

Joe Rogan 58:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 58:56 ... are doing that. And those late night shows, I have no idea what they're doing or why they even exist. They're-

Joe Rogan 59:00 They're weird. They're-

Jimmy Dore 59:01 Even Stephen Colbert. Like, Stephen Colbert's show on Comedy Central, just a brilliant-

Joe Rogan 59:05 Brilliant.

Jimmy Dore 59:06 ... brilliant show, and now he quit to get way more money to do a more popular show that is way less relevant, interesting, or creative.

Joe Rogan 59:13 But it is funny when he fucking mocks Trump. It's funny how hard he goes. The fact that he-

Jimmy Dore 59:18 I can't watch it. I don't watch it.

Joe Rogan 59:18 ... said that Trump's mouth is... But that he uses his mouth as Putin- Putin's cock holster, the fact that they said that on CBS, I was like, "Wow! This is what happens when you have to compete with the internet." Who the fuck could have imagined ever in their wildest dreams-

Jimmy Dore 59:33 That lefty comedians would be doing McCarthy smears?

Joe Rogan 59:36 But who-

Jimmy Dore 59:36 No one the fucking thought, huh? Right on national TV.

Joe Rogan 59:39 It's- It's just a joke. But a joke like that. A cock... I get the McCarthyism thing, but the joke of a cock holster, the president's mouth being used as Putin's cock holster, that that would be on CBS.

Jimmy Dore 59:52 I get that you're applauding that he broke a, uh, boundary.

Joe Rogan 59:55 Well, I'm a- I'm not applauding it. I'm just saying it's fascinating that we've changed what's the bar-

Jimmy Dore 1:00:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 ... what's, what- what you're allowed to do. Like, you've changed every... And because it's Trump, like if they said that about Hillary Clinton-

Jimmy Dore 1:00:06 Anybody else, get, oh my God!

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 If Hillary Clinton... If he said, well, 'cause look at all this Russia d- dossier memo shit that's coming out. I mean, it turns out that a lot of this stuff is horse shit, right?

Jimmy Dore 1:00:16 So a lot of people who weren't around for the first McCarthy, uh, sh- uh, shit, they're getting to experience it now. This is what it's like.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:22 This is what it's like. And you're like, "What? Even the media is..." Yeah, and the media goes along... Yeah, that's, this is what it's like. And you know, um, I don't even, I don't want to spend the, uh, t- any amount of time talking about it, but it's so unbelievable, 'cause people, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 They forgot.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:37 You're talking to a wall when you tell... People just go, "Well, I mean, there was collusion." I go, "What did, what's collusion? What does that mean, collusion? That Trump colluded with the, the Russians hacked into the, John Podesta's emails and somehow they needed Trump to help them?" (laughs) What the fuck?

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 (laughs) Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:52 That's the, 'cause that's what they're saying.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Exactly.

Jimmy Dore 1:00:54 And that there's some kind of quid pro quo and that now Trump is a Manchurian candidate and that he's Putin's puppet, and uh-... but you notice there's, there's moving the goalposts every day. So now it's, "Oh, no, now he's, he's in bed with Russian oligarchs doing money laundering."

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Well, you don't know. There's a sale of a home, and, uh, it was ... A Russian bought it. Russian.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:15 So they've totally moved the goalposts-

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:16 ... from being treason to now he's just regular corrupt like everybody else because let me tell you something. Everybody else is regular corrupt like Trump. Trump-

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 But I don't even know if it's regular corrupt 'cause we're talking about a sale of a house-

Jimmy Dore 1:01:27 Well, there-

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 ... from quite a few years ago.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:28 Well, that, there, there's more ... That, that's one thing, but they're-

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:31 ... talking about lots of other things, right? And I say you wanna talk about collusion, he opened up eight businesses in Saudi Arabia during the goddamn campaign. There, there's your fucking collusion, but nobody talks about that 'cause Saudi Arabia's supposed to be on our side-

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:42 ... even though they're a repressive theocracy that beheads people in the streets, but we like them 'cause of the Petrodollar, which no one ever talks about the Petrodollar. So-

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 It's dirty.

Jimmy Dore 1:01:50 Well, that's what props up our dollar right now, the economy. So what people don't know is that in the early '70s, Richard Nixon took our country off the gold standard and, uh, we went on the Petrodollar and what was that? Well, we promised Saudi Arabia the use of our military anywhere they wanted as long as they would co-convert every dollar of oil that someone bought from them i- in American dollars. So if you-

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 Right.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:11 ... wanna buy oil from Saudi Arabia, you first have to convert your currency into American dollars.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Which is the real reason why we invaded Iraq the first time.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:17 Well, it has a lot to do with it. The ... And it's why we're in Yemen right now. We're doing siege warfare in Yemen, which is a war crime. A guy just got convicted of it, uh, at the Hague. Uh, so we're doing that in conjunction with Saudi Arabia and why are we doing that? Because of the Petrodollar. That's what's ... Uh, and it's all about why are we in Africa? It's e- ev- everything comes down to money and why are we in Syria? They wanted to put a natural gas pipeline through Syria and Russia doesn't want it because they wanna sell the, the natural gas to, to Europe. That's what this is about. So if there's e- and it's not about babies, it's not about freedom, it's not about liberty and, you know, uh, we gotta s- e-

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 You clearly don't like country music.

Jimmy Dore 1:02:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 What'd you just say?

Jimmy Dore 1:02:57 I like real country music.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 What is real country music?

Jimmy Dore 1:02:59 I like country like The Outlaw Community.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 Merle Haggard?

Jimmy Dore 1:03:01 Yeah. I like that guy. I like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Waylon Jennings?

Jimmy Dore 1:03:04 Yeah. I like W- Willie Nelson.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 Yeah.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:06 Yeah, not these fucking pussies who wanna be-

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 Whoa.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:07 ... Boy Scouts and My Mama and all that shit.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Whoa.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:10 What?

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Pussies.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:11 I'm not supposed to say pussies? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 (laughs) That's okay. Well, there's gonna be a time where we can't say pussies anymore.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:16 Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits, all right?

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 George Carlin.

Jimmy Dore 1:03:19 So a lot of people are trying to