EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,031 words- 0:03 – 1:44
Suits, authority, and why dressing up changes how you feel
- JRJoe Rogan
Boom, and we're live. Hello, Kyle.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Hello, Joe Rogan. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
How you doing? You look very good there in a suit.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Thank you. Uh, you know, I like to pretend that I'm a serious human being by wearing this, but I'm just a dick. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you're a youngish fellow, so maybe a suit would give you more of an air of, uh, uh, uh, com- composure or-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... authority, perhaps.
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's the idea. If you look like you're really serious, then people assume you're serious-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... and they don't know that I'm, you know, making dick jokes and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... all the shit like that. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a good move.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a very smart move.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, it works out.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've actually, uh, had some suits made. I had to do this function for one of my kids' schools, and I had to go to this function where you had to wear nice clothes. It's like a dress up thing. And I don't really have nice clothes, nothing that, like, fits, and so I had to have something made. So now I've been wearing it when I go on special dates with Mrs. Rogan. Put it on.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So it's like... It's a suit like this? It's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
I got a nice suit jacket and tailored, the whole deal. It fits me.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And how do you feel when you put it on? Do you feel like-
- JRJoe Rogan
I feel like, um-
- KKKyle Kulinski
... "Oh, I'm official now"? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... I'm a serious person. I feel like a serious person.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, if I, if I dress like this with, like, a hoodie and a T-shirt, I feel like a, a shlub. I feel like a, a dork.
- KKKyle Kulinski
There's this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like I am.
- KKKyle Kulinski
There's this thing that I do where, uh, especially when I'm doing my show, oftentimes you do that half-ass move where I look like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. But you have, uh, shorts on underneath?
- KKKyle Kulinski
But then I might have basketball shorts on-
- 1:44 – 3:04
Timeless fashion vs bad trends: JNCOs, Cavariccis, and gym throwbacks
- KKKyle Kulinski
But it, it doesn't go out of style, that's the thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... is, like, if you look at a picture of somebody from, like, 1906 and you look at a picture of somebody from 2018 and they're wearing a suit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... you go, "Oh, okay." But then other aspects of style and fashion change so fast. I mean, you look at-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Remember the, I think they were called JNCOs, like, the really baggy jeans that people wore?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah, like, uh, Cavariccis.
- KKKyle Kulinski
I don't know what that is. Is that J- was that like JNCOs?
- JRJoe Rogan
Cavariccis was, uh, something that we used to wear w- I'm dating myself. This is, like, in the m- early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. It was like they were tight to, like, your, your pelvic region and then they would flare up-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when they got past the hips.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Like MC Hammer pants?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yes. (claps)
- KKKyle Kulinski
So terrible.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. But those didn't really make it, right? And then there w- But they did make it in the gym. Like, inst- if you go to the gym, there's still guys who wear these kinda sweatpants-
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that are like these kinda puffy sweatpants.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And they're usually juiced out of their minds, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. And they're like, "They're so big."
- KKKyle Kulinski
And they're, "Oh, these are the work, these are the workout clothes everybody wears."
- JRJoe Rogan
They probably wore those pants 'cause they're... There it is. There's Cavariccis.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh my God.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those dudes look like... I used to wear those, tried to get laid.
- KKKyle Kulinski
You wore those?
- JRJoe Rogan
You would wear whatever you could. Yes, I had to.
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's the opposite of trying to get laid. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Back in the day. Not in those days. Back in those days, like, people didn't know any better.
- 3:04 – 5:53
Powdered wigs, ‘big wigs,’ and syphilis: how status symbols start
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, you know where that came from?
- KKKyle Kulinski
No, where?
- JRJoe Rogan
We found out on the podcast. It came from syphilis. Yes. The whole wig thing came out of royalty. These royals had syphilis. What was the whole story? It was about the term big wig and it was... So who were the people? Was it Dutch? Dutch kings? Who was the k- Who were the kings? See if you can find that story, 'cause it's a fascinating story. What it was was there was these, I think they were brothers, and they had syphilis. They were just banging everybody. Yeah. Why do people wear powdered wigs? And it all came from hair loss that these guys would have. There it goes. "The, the peruke story begins, like many others, with syphilis. By 1580, the STD had become the worst epidemic to strike Europe since the Black Death. According to William Clowes..." Uh, Clowes? Clowes? C-L-O-W-E-S. How would you say that?
- KKKyle Kulinski
Either one. Clowes, I'd say.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, "An infinite multitude of syphilis patients clogged London's hospitals and more filtered in each day. Without antibiotics, victims faced the full brunt of the disease. Open sores, nasty rashes, blindless dement-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... blindness, dementia, and patchy hair loss. Baldness swept the land."
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, that's them saying, "I'm healthy. I'm healthy."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they just, it just became a thing because these ro- c- c- scroll down so you... It'll tell you, like, who the people were that did it. Yeah. So, um... Uh, so, uh, what? You went a little too far. Yeah. "And so syphilis outbreaks sparked a surge in widgemaking, wig-making. Victims hid their baldness," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. "Louis XIV was only 17 when his mop started thinning. Worried that his baldness would hurt his reputation, Louis hired 48 wig-makers (laughs) to save his image. Five years later, the king of En- England, Louis' cousin, Charles II, did the same thing when his hair started to gray. Both men likely had syphilis. Courtiers..." How do you say that?
- KKKyle Kulinski
Courtiers.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Courtiers-"
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, I think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... and other aristocrats immediately copied the two kings. They sported wigs and the style trickled down to the upper middle class. Europe's newest fad was born." And so that's where it came from, so the whole powdered wigs with people of distinction in, in court.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
All that shit came from syphilis.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like most things.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, whenever somebody tries to, you know, kinda like deify-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... the Founding Fathers, I always think, "Well, yeah, they were brilliant on some things, but on the other hand, they wore powdered wigs and shat in ou- outhouses and had slaves." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, like, there's a little bit of a balance that we have to take into consideration there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I mean, think about how much cultural change has taken place in our society just over the last few years.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
You mean-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, uh, words that were commonplace are now completely unacceptable, you know?
- KKKyle Kulinski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Styles of behavior and methods of expression are being criticized and critiqued i- in this really radical way, and I think it's good, uh, ultimately. I think there's a lot of back and forth-
- KKKyle Kulinski
To an extent I'd say it's good, but-
- 5:53 – 10:49
Campus protests, free speech, and the ‘authoritarian left’ backlash problem
- JRJoe Rogan
The, the, the sentiment is good, you know? I think the reaction and some of the overreaction, like, there's a spectrum, right? There's, there's always gonna be, like... Did you see the... There was something that came out yesterday from Portland State University.... where Peter Boghossian and James Damore, the Google memo guy, and, uh, Heather Heying, she was a, uh, professor at Evergreen State.
- KKKyle Kulinski
I remember, with the Jordan Peterson thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
And she was actually on my podcast, uh, last week with her husband, Bret Weinstein. Weinstein, can't say Weinstein.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh, so I'm not thinking of the same person.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's Weinstein.
- KKKyle Kulinski
I was thinking of the person who got fired 'cause of-
- JRJoe Rogan
She did not get fired.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh, she didn't get fired, but she-
- JRJoe Rogan
She crashed.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... criticized her for playing a Jordan Peterson thing, is that the same person?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh, okay. Sorry.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no, no. That's Lindsay-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Okay, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... something or other.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Lindsay something, yeah sure. Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
She was in a different university.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Laurier? Was that, was that it?
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, in Canada, in Canada.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, in Canada. Another university in Canada. Um, this is in Portland. Anyway, so they're in the middle of this conversation and Heather, who is a, she's a biologist, and she starts going over the biology of the differences between males and females that are just undeniable. And these kids get up and they start yelling that this is bullshit and fuck you and power to the people, all this crazy shit, and then they tip over the, uh, sound system and they're the, the most hilarious, classical liberal progressive lefties. Green hair-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The guy has, like, this poofy afro and he's like, "You know, we don't tolerate Nazis, man." Like-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... these aren't fucking Nazis, these are biologists, you piece of shit.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. You know, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like-
- KKKyle Kulinski
That stuff is the kind of stuff that I think turns people off to the left.
- 10:49 – 13:33
Debate as theater: why public arguments reward grandstanding
- JRJoe Rogan
You have a... I mean, I think open conversations are critical, and I also, uh, I mean, this is gonna probably be unpopular, I don't think the way to do it is in front of a large group of people. I think you open yourself up to a lot of grandstanding, a lot of saying things just for applause breaks, a lot of, there's a lot of bullshit. It just-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It changes the nature of the conversation because it becomes theater. You're doing this thing in front of all these people, and you can hear a lot of these times people say things, like I'm a comic, so I know when someone's saying things for a reaction.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're like, "There's a way you do it where you say it like this and that's what we want." And everybody goes, "Yeah!"
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You do not, you do not talk like that when it's just you and a person. When it's just you and a person, you are just alone with your ideas, and I think that is the way a guy like Ben Shapiro and, you know, whoever you want on the left should have a discussion.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. Um, there's something about that that's sophistry, you know, like, so you're not creating the best argument, you're just trying to sound like you have the best argument.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And, you know, Bill Maher, for example, does this where he's very good at the punchy one liners.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Like he's in a conversation with his panel on his show and he'll be like, "Buh, buh, buh, buh." And everyone's, "Ah!"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's his style.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, he's a comic.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... well, he didn't really say anything-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
He just kind of, it was like a quick partisan-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... hacky point you made, but since people already agree with you in the audience, they clap.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So it's harder to flesh out the ideas and really... That's why, listen, I've always said I'm not the biggest fan of debate-... because, so I've done a, a few debates and people online like when I do debates, but I'm not the biggest fan of debates because I think it's like the WWE of intellectual pursuits.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Where you go in, this person's, uh, whole point is to defend this side of it, uh, my job is to defend the other side of it, and it's like, okay, (claps hands) clash. But it's like, okay, well then, when we come across an issue like the fucking 64 genders on Facebook or whatever it is, and I actually might agree, am I now put in a position where I'm supposed to be like, "No, I'm going to disagree because that's the format of the thing that we're doing."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
It's just weird, and it's not normal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and I think that's actually very important for both sides to do. Like, when there's something on your side that you disagree with, you should be honest about it. And I just... Even saying that, that there's a side, that there's sides, that there's our side versus their side, we're, I think we're so inherently tribal that we should resist any temptation whatsoever to form teams.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially about critical issues, like, uh, really important social issues, really important economic issues, really important civil rights issues. These are just things that we should just talk about without looking at them in terms of, "Oh, the left wants this, so I oppose it," or, "The right wants this, so I have to figure out ways to mock it."
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, um, yeah. I don't even know what to say in response to that. (laughs) I agree with that. (laughs)
- 13:33 – 17:55
Rogan’s hosting philosophy and the labeling trap (plus the Brian Dunning clash)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, uh, it's just, uh, you know, it was... We were talking about this before the podcast that, like, what I will try to do is have conversations with everyone. I try to have conversations-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... with nutty people like Alex Jones, I try to have conversations with rational people like Sam Harris, I like to, I try to have conversations with all kinds of people. But without fail, every time I have a left-wing person on, I'm some cuck, left-wing-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know?
- KKKyle Kulinski
It's gonna happen, sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
And e- and every time I have a right-wing person on, I'm some alt-right, Nazi apologist. It's like this weird inclination we have to try to label and categorize people, and I try to resist those labels as much as humanly possible.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, I feel like what you're really good at is you can have on people who disagree completely on stuff, but you'll kind of find a nugget of agreement in the conversation with that person, and then you can expand on that and you can end up having a very nice conversation. And you're not, you never really bring anybody on to try to, like, browbeat them and tell them that they're wrong on this issue or that issue. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
No. I mean, it's, I have no desire to do that. I don't have, uh... I mean, look, I've had, I've had a lot of arguments in my life and I don't like them. I don't think they're beneficial. I mean, I think debate is good, but every time I've ever been in a, an argument with someone, like a real argument, I always come out of it feeling gross.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, there are times in life where arguments are necessary. There's times in life where you're just faced with, uh, aggression or conflict and you have to do something about it, you have to meet it head on. There are times in life like that. But whenever you can avoid that, do. And I think a lot of what arguments are, and I've failed at this in my life many times, but a lot of what arguments are is the way you've reacted to the w- the thoughts and the expression that another person has. And if you just reacted a different way or approached it in a different manner or took it into consideration a little bit more before you responded, I think the conversation could have gone another way. And I think I'm learning how to do that more and more as I get better at podcasting, get better at conversations, learning how to just settle someone down, and learning how to genuinely be a nice person. So where I don't, I don't want to, like, insult anybody. I don't want to be in a disagreement with someone. I wanna discuss ideas.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure. Who was that, who was that skeptic guy from years back that he put you on a list of, like, "Top 10 conspiracy blah, blah, blah," and then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh... Brian Dunning.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And then I, I remember watching that clip and it was so frustrating, uh, when you guys were going back and forth, because you would say... I think you were talking about the 9/11 thing, and you're like, "I'm 100% not saying it was a conspiracy. I'm saying it looked like the building came down in a controlled demolition." Those are two very different things. It's one thing to say, "I believe it's a conspiracy." It's another thing to say, "The way it came down, uh, looked like it was a controlled demolition." But he kept insisting and trying to tell you what you believe-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- KKKyle Kulinski
... as you're sitting across the room and you're like, "No, I don't believe that."
- JRJoe Rogan
He was trying to tell me what I was saying-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... even though it was very clear. You know, okay, how do I say this? Uh, I don't think Brian is a bad guy. I don't think his brain works correctly.
- KKKyle Kulinski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm, I'm being honest. I think there's, there's a real problem there. And when he does these science... these videos, he sounds like a strip club DJ. Do you know what I mean? Like, there-
- KKKyle Kulinski
I've never seen his or-
- JRJoe Rogan
There is some way-
- KKKyle Kulinski
... original content.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that people talk where they take on an affected-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, uh, there's a way-
- KKKyle Kulinski
I hate that.
- JRJoe Rogan
But that thing is done by people that are trying to achieve a desired result. Like, the- it's not that they're themselves talking about a very specific thing. It's that they're trying to put on an air of intellectual authority. And, you know, he talks of himself as a science writer, whatever that is. Look, I don't hate that guy, I'm not mad at him. The whole thing was kinda foolish and it was very damaging to him, and he wound up going to jail afterwards. Not-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Really?
- 17:55 – 25:46
Trump’s communication style: authenticity, simplicity, and dangerous bravado
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, speaking of, uh, fake personas, I feel like that's the worst when it comes to politics.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And I do feel like o- one, there's very, very, very, very, very few upsides of Trump in my opinion, but one of the upsides of Trump is that he did kinda break the mold in terms of what was viewed as-... um, the right way to communicate as a politician. Because before him, you had all these very measured people who had the proper posture and they spoke with their thumb pointed down because they don't wanna be-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... too strong with their, their finger pointing at you like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, or a fist.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, and then he comes along and he's obviously shooting from the hip and he clearly has no filter and he's tripping over his words. "A tremendous, believe me." He's unnecessarily-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... punchy and short with his sentences. And I remember there was a, a report that came out that said he communicates, I think it was like a sixth or seventh grade level or something like that. And everybody in the media was mocking it. And I did a segment where I said, "You guys are mocking, and that's a terrible idea." Because guess what? The, the way he's speaking, even though it sounds stupid, it's gonna pierce through. Like, you know how when some people talk, it's hard ... You have to focus to pay attention, to listen to where they're going with it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... and it's hard? And then there's other people who talk and it's like you j- it's ... You just get it. It's immediately right in your brain.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And it, it ... It doesn't matter, agree or disagree with the substance of what that person is saying, you know when somebody's an effective communicator. And when he was o- at ... Out there, uh, on the campaign trail and he was, for example, campaigning in the Rust Belt where Hillary Clinton did not go-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And he was like, "Ah, NAFTA. NAFTA's terrible. They shipped out all your jobs."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
"It was unbelievably terrible. Believe me. Let me just tell you."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
"But I'm gonna do ... I'm gonna keep you jobs here. It's gonna be unbelievable, believe me."
- JRJoe Rogan
That's pretty good. (laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
I ... See, it is good, right? I do a pretty good Trump. People tell me that.
- JRJoe Rogan
The voice is a little off, but the mannerisms are excellent.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
So-
- KKKyle Kulinski
How about the fucking thing he did recently where he said that he would've gone into the school when the school shooting was going on?
- JRJoe Rogan
Horrible.
- KKKyle Kulinski
He would've gone in there even if he didn't have a gun. Yeah. It's like, 'cause you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you fucking imagine any other president-
- 25:46 – 31:14
Prisons, forced labor, rehabilitation models, and the death penalty dilemma
- KKKyle Kulinski
There's... And there's some... J- just 'cause you brought up prisons, this is a pivot here, but it... There's some creepy stuff going on in w- in terms of the labor that they're getting from prisoners.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, fuck yeah. We were just talking about that with the fires, that they were paying those guys, like, a job-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Oh, that's right, yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... like, a dollar a day to risk their life in the Santa Barbara fires. Fuck, man.
- KKKyle Kulinski
How is that allowed?
- JRJoe Rogan
I... Well, hey, maybe give me a month off, you know, or a, a year off, or whatever. You know, maybe if you did... you're not a dangerous criminal, like maybe you did something stupid, you know, some petty theft or something like that, and, you know, you... L- look, I'll go out there and fight the fire, but you gotta, you gotta give me some sort of a break off my sentence. Nope, we're gonna give you a dollar a day.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, they make them do it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... and then they still have the normal sentence? They don't even reduce it or anything?
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know. I wish I did. I mean, I'm sure good behavior reduces sentences.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure that probably does something. But the, the idea that they could pay you a dollar a day to fight a fire is fucking crazy.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or a dollar an hour, or whatever the fuck the actual number was.
- KKKyle Kulinski
The way we do prisons in general in the US is really weird, because I f- so I feel like there's, like, a... the Norwegian way of doing stuff and the Scandinavian way of doing stuff, where they gear everything towards rehabilitation-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... to get them back into society and functioning. Um, and in the US, I feel like we don't gear towards rehabilitation, we gear towards punishment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
We're gonna punish you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And, you know, I, I think you could... There are fair critiques of the Norwegian system, like, you know, in Scandinavia, w- who is the guy? Anders Breivik, he killed all these-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... and th- and he was complaining 'cause he's like, "I only have a PS2 and you guys need to give me, like, a newer video game system." So, you can look at that and go, "Listen, man, you guys are being too fucking liberal. Fuck that guy. He had, like, two rooms that were his cell and he could walk in a fucking courtyard and shit."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, I think there are genuine criticisms of that, but at the same time what's fascinating is, they have a significantly lower recidivism rate than we do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, here, if you go to prison, it's very likely that you're gonna end up back in prison. In those places, if you go to prison, you know, especially if it's, like, a lower level crime, they rehabilitate you and you get out and you're a functioning member of society.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So, we can learn something from them. In my mind, I think there should be some sort of a middle ground. Like, I think prison should be used... Yes, in some instances people need fucking punishment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 31:14 – 33:15
Flawed memory, future mind-reading tech, and surveillance as leverage
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, yeah. Well, uh, we were talking about something before the podcast, and I think, um, uh, this is... I think this is really the future, whether it's in our lifetimes or our children's lifetimes. But I think that they're going to be able to read minds, and I think it's not... We're not far away from that. We're gonna, we're gonna really be able to know the actual contents of your thoughts.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whether or not you really did murder a bunch of kids and bury them in your backyard. We're gonna know. And until then, we're dealing with a bunch of really big fucking problems. One of the biggest problems is people's memories. People's memories are so bad.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're so bad. So when you have eyewitness testimony and you can convict people wrongly, which happens every day, and they think they're right. They think... They, they really do believe they're right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They really believe it. That's a fucking problem, man. That's just a giant problem is the human memory is incredibly flawed. And when someone's life is on the line and, you know, you're gonna convict a guy who didn't do anything. He just looks kind of like what you remember this person who murdered that guy looks like.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, that's where a lot of the things get overturned is because they have DNA evidence-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... that overrides whatever the testimony was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... of the people at the time. And speaking of technology advancing, I... There's many scary aspects to it, but you know, the elephant in the room to me is the fact that look at what the NSA is already doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
They're already spying on absolutely everybody in the country. They collect all of our metadata and store it at some multi-billion dollar facility in Utah. And then, like there's no doubt that all this technology is gonna be used against us. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Well, it certainly can be if they choose to. Like if you become a guy like a, uh, you know, like Julian Assange or anyone-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure. Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who leaks something.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then they go, "Hey, let's go pull up Kyle's, uh, text message records. Oh, look, he likes cross-dressing and fucking-"
- KKKyle Kulinski
(laughs) For the record, I don't.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... shitting in people's mouths." What, whatever it is.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, they, they can... And then they could leak that to whatever media people that they're in bed with. There's just a lot of shit that they can get away with.
- 33:15 – 35:11
Sex scandals, hypocrisy, and political downfall: Spitzer and Anthony Weiner
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, that's partially what they did with Eliot Spitzer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Because Eliot Spitzer, they called him the Sheriff of Wall Street because he-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... he cracked down on Wall Street.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And then, oops, look at that. His, his credit card information from the brothel he went to was leaked to a, a press outlet.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well how the fuck did you get the credit card information? Because they knew what they were looking for because they were trying to bring him down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Well, worse than that-
- KKKyle Kulinski
But he is-
- JRJoe Rogan
... he was actually going after brothels.
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's what I was gonna say. He... And I think it was his hypocrisy-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... that brought him down and not the fact that he went to a brothel.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
It's that you're cracking down on brothels and going to brothels at the same time.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was arresting people.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. That was-
- JRJoe Rogan
It was-
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's fucked up.
- JRJoe Rogan
He s- It was ridiculous. It's like, it's like... I mean, it doesn't make any sense that he thought that he could get away with that, but... The, the real problem with that guy is that guy was an interesting politician.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like he, he really did have some really good points, a lot like, uh, Weiner. Like Weiner-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well Weiner, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... was kind of interesting in that way too. He had some really good points. He's a great speaker, but he was also a freak.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Did you see the documentary on him?
- JRJoe Rogan
I did.
- KKKyle Kulinski
That... I mean, you want to talk about-
- JRJoe Rogan
I didn't wa- I didn't finish it though. I watched part of it and then I, I just got bored.
- 35:11 – 38:29
Standup mechanics: the rush, different room sizes, and authenticity vs script
- KKKyle Kulinski
Okay. So I wanted to talk to you about comedy.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
I really did because... So I've had, um... I, I've done a few live things in my life. I did a live show once and then, um... But I also did best man speeches in front of rooms of, you know, over 100 people. The first one- best man speech I did, I cried like a bitch. It was the saddest thing ever. I'm up there talking about one of my best friends and I'm like, "And we used to wrestle on the trampoline." (fake crying)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
It was, it was pathetic. It was...
- JRJoe Rogan
Why is that pathetic though? That's just emotions.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
You, you care about the guy.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well yeah, that's the thing is that people came up to me after and they, they liked it and they were like, "Oh man, that was great. It was heartfelt." I was like, I barely fucking said a word that anybody could understand because I was blubbering. It was...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but that's okay.
- KKKyle Kulinski
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, I think there's a real problem that people have with avoiding emotions. You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
- KKKyle Kulinski
I was too vulnerable in front of people I didn't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
It doesn't matter. Who cares?
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's the thing. Okay, well, you're defending me. Thank you for that. But the, the second best man speech I gave, I went into it thinking like, "Okay, I'm gonna..."
- JRJoe Rogan
"I'm gonna crush."
- KKKyle Kulinski
A little bit. I was thinking that a little bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
But like... So I, I like to... The... When I talk, I like to have just bullet points of what I want to talk about and just, just a loose outline and then I'll riff off of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And what happened was all the lines that I thought would get a laugh did not get a laugh, but all my throwaway lines got good laughs.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
So I was amazed by that. And then also I was amazed at the fucking rush of getting a room to hang on your every word and to genuinely laugh at what you're saying.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And so every time you do standup, is that the feeling you get?
- JRJoe Rogan
You definitely get a rush. There's no doubt about it.You crush, you get a rush. Yeah. You get a ru- Well, it's a different rush in different sized places. Like, there's more of a surreal thing. When you get a ... There's an, there's an area you get to, like, around 5,000, 6,000 people, it gets real-
- KKKyle Kulinski
That's a lot of people.
- JRJoe Rogan
It gets real weird, man. It gets fucking weird. That gets weird. Like, almost like you are ... You just, uh, you're doing a show then more than you're connecting with people.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whereas you're gonna come to The Comedy Store tonight, that's a intimate place. That's 150 people. That's tight, little small room and that's like you're there. You're there with the people. It's different. That's a rush too, though.
- 38:29 – 41:13
Late-night TV vs podcasts: why the internet format is winning
- KKKyle Kulinski
And I feel like that's one of the many reasons why this podcast is very popular, because you get people on here and you just have a conversation and it- it ... You're ... You two are really connecting and then you're also really connecting with the people who are watching because you're just having a conversation. It's like you're at a bar-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... and everybody's just kind of talking. And it's not like people come here and they're like, "Let me now go to my point that I was going to make on this and this." Because that's when people start to yawn. And that's actually why I think a lot of the, the older shows, like, you know, the ... Not to shit on the late night hosts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
But that's why I feel like that's kind of dying out and there's this giant rise of the internet, because that's all very segmented and structured and you have to go in and out real fast.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And it's ... You ... There's nothing human about it. It's almost like it's celebrities telling you, "We're on this different level and you're gonna watch us be on this different level."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
As opposed to just being a regular person and then-
- JRJoe Rogan
"What's it like working with Spielberg?" "Well, it's interesting. Steven is a, a amazing director."
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"It's just, what he does is-"
- KKKyle Kulinski
So douchey. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, it's so weird.
- KKKyle Kulinski
It's just so douchey.
- JRJoe Rogan
And also, you would be like the talk show host, so you'd be sitting there and I'd be sitting like this.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'd be like this. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is, which is weird. And I'd be turning sideways facing you. I mean, it's so, it's so follow leader copycat because this is just the way they did it with Jack Paar.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Back in the fucking 1800s or whatever the fuck that was.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they go from there to Jimmy Kimmel, who does it the same way.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And then the first time somebody breaks the fucking mold, everybody's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
What is this? What is this?
- KKKyle Kulinski
"This is brilliant. Why, why aren't we doing more of this? This makes sense."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, you could kind of do this conversation in front of a large group of people. I mean, a lot of people do do live podcasts.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. I feel like it's a little different though.
- JRJoe Rogan
But they're weird. Yeah, they're weird.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel so like that too? Because-
- JRJoe Rogan
They're weird.
- 41:13 – 47:54
2016 election autopsy: Hillary’s weaknesses, identity politics, and ‘fake populism’
- KKKyle Kulinski
So did, did you see that coming, Trump winning, or no?
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, I thought it was entirely possible. I thought it was entirely possible. I didn't see it coming. I felt like everybody was so convinced that Hillary was gonna win. I just felt like, uh, that was probably what was gonna happen.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So I feel like one of the reasons why my, my show got popular over time is be- I'm sucking my own dick and this sounds so gross, but ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KKKyle Kulinski
But I actually predicted, uh ... I ... Or pretty early on, when Hillary ... It was clear Hillary was gonna get the nomination.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
I was sounding the alarms and I was saying, "Listen, Hillary versus Trump is a worst case scenario because Hillary Clinton is the status quo. She is the establishment. She is business as usual. She doesn't have a message. She doesn't have a vision. All she's doing is spewing platitudes and cliches."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
"Break down the barriers, stronger together."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Doing identity politics nonstop, which is nothing but pandering and not talking about policy substance.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And then, like we touched on earlier, you had Donald Trump who, uh, I, I disagree with him on virtually everything, but the guy knows how to fucking play to a crowd.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Knows how to tell people what they want to hear. So when he's in front of a blue collar audience, he's out there ripping the trade deals and saying-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... "I'm gonna keep your jobs in the country and it's gonna be amazing."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And that's something that landed. And then when you have Hillary so dumb as to not, uh, campaign in, I ... What? Michigan and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Some ... Ohio. Well, it was Ohio-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... I think she went to, but some of the Rust Belt states. Well, the reason he ended up winning is because of the Rust Belt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
So ... And my whole point was Trump is a populist and admittedly, when push came to shove now that he's elected, a fake populist because he has Goldman Sachs throughout his ad- his administration and he's serving Wall Street. But a fake populist ...... will always beat a status quo politician-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... because people are sick and tired of business as usual, and they feel like, "Well, I'm getting shafted now and she's coming along and telling me I'm gonna keep everything the same. Why the fuck would I be happy and excited to vote for her?"
- JRJoe Rogan
It, it was like, there were so many things that were in place that were against her. First of all, she w- she has absolutely poor health and it was admitted by her husband that she had fallen down and cracked her head open and had s- pretty severe brain injury that she took, took more than six months for her to recover, according to Bill. We saw her fainting all the time. I mean, she, she-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah, that was creepy, at the 9/11 thing, when she-
- JRJoe Rogan
But that's not good. She's just ... And oh, she had the flu. I've had the flu. I don't fall asleep-
- 47:54 – 1:16:53
Anti-corruption litmus tests and 2020 speculation: Bernie, Ro Khanna, Tulsi, Oprah
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't you think that the parties themselves, th- th- there's a giant issue with the momentum behind them? The lobbyists, the special interests groups, the embedded just sort of ecosystem that they both carry with them. For someone new to step in and sort of represent the actual people like yourself that, that have this-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... very clear view.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, that's why-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's why they have so many people that they're beholden to by the time they get into a position where they can even run for president, they've all been vetted and checked and-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, that's why, there, there are some keys here. So one of the most important things is when you look at a politician who's running, thing number one is check. Do they take corporate PAC money? If the answer is yes, fuck 'em. Not interested. If you don't take corporate PAC money, that means okay, at least I know you're being honest and you're being open. And when you talk, I can believe you. There's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
But if some problem comes along is that successful politician, someone who could actually possibly win, they do take corporate PAC money, but they're a better alternative than say, uh, (laughs) you know, Pence. If Pence-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
... decides to be president-
- KKKyle Kulinski
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
... after ... Then you go, "Okay, we gotta choose the lesser of two evils." That's essentially what we did with Hillary.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Right.That's right, and I think-
- JRJoe Rogan
You get into that weird position where, yeah, she's kinda corrupt, but look, she's, uh, it's gonna be historic. She's a woman. She's infinitely more qualified than him and...
- KKKyle Kulinski
Yeah. The lesser evilism thing is a, is a big issue because that's the game that's played on the American people. And I think Americans know that it's being played on them. You know, like if you look at the, um, the opinion polls on Congress, Congress oscillates between a 14% approval rating and a 21% approval rating, and we're supposed to be a democracy. So in other words, you vote these people in, and then two weeks later you go ask people, "Hey, what do you think of the Congress you just voted in?" And like, 14% of them are like, "I think they're good." Everybody else is like, "Fuck them." So we all know that there's a problem here, and the root of the problem is the corruption of the system and the corporate money flooding our politics, and then the politicians get in there and all they do is represent the corporations, and they don't represent the people. So to your point, yeah, in order to rise up through this system, that's why they l- that's why the establishment loved Hillary Clinton-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
... because she played by the rules in this corrupt system.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Did you know that, uh, her and Bill through their entire career, they raised over $3 billion in private donations?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's hilarious.
- KKKyle Kulinski
And that's how you get to the point where it was wall-to-wall, "Oh, obviously she's gonna win. This is a no-brainer and everybody loves her." No, everybody loves her in, on fucking Wall Street and in Washington DC. But, and again, just to go back to the Bernie Sanders point, now we're seeing more politicians coming up that are in his model where they say, "I'm not gonna take any corporate PAC money. I, I don't even want a super PAC if I run for president." And then what happens is people know at the end of the day I can trust that person even if I don't agree with that person. And that's why Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the country by a mile and a half. He's the most popular by a long shot, and the reason is there are even many people on the right who look at him and go, "You know what, I don't agree with him on abortion, I don't agree with him on this or that, but I trust the guy, and I think he's fighting for me."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's definitely that. I mean there's, uh, he's, he's a guy that really has a clean record in terms of like the money that he's taken. That alone is very unique, and that alone makes him stand out from the other people that were running for president. When you look at the future though, like who other than him... And I, it's the problem with him is he's, he's another one, he's not of good health. He's, he's had-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Well, he's 1000 years old, we could just say it. (laughs) It's also-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's people that are his age that are in very good shape. Like how old is he?
- KKKyle Kulinski
Uh, 75, 4?
- JRJoe Rogan
74.
- KKKyle Kulinski
Jamie, can you check that?
- JRJoe Rogan
My friend Aaron Snyder had a podcast the other day with a gentleman who's 78 years old who goes on backpack solo elk hunts, and he rides-
- KKKyle Kulinski
Holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
... mountain bikes and exercises and does all this shit. Like there are people out there that are his age that take care of their body. But the problem with Bernie, he's 76.
- KKKyle Kulinski
He's 76, okay.
Episode duration: 3:01:25
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Transcript of episode Sq1rX54u69U
