Joe Rogan Experience #1087 - Sturgill Simpson

1. 0:00 – 2:06

   LA traffic, city stress, and the fantasy of “wilderness in a pill”

   1. SSSturgill Simpson0:00

      How long is it going to take me to get to LAX and what time should I be there?

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      If you leave at 2:00, you have no problems at all.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson0:06

      Okay.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      No problems.

   5. SSSturgill Simpson0:07

      Cool.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      So if you leave at 2:00, you're just gonna coast in. Are we live? We're trying to figure out LA traffic, ladies and gentlemen. You gotta plan for that shit. Like-

   7. SSSturgill Simpson0:15

      You do, man.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      ... like a natural disaster.

   9. SSSturgill Simpson0:17

      (laughs) In many ways, they're very similar.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       When I moved to Colorado for just a few months and then came back here, it was instantaneous, like the recognition of like what effect it has on me. You know, like ev- there's so many people. You're driving and it's like ... When you go somewhere where there's very few people, you have, there's a, a real feeling of relaxation.

   11. SSSturgill Simpson0:39

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       Like it's legitimate. It's real.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson0:40

       Yes.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Yeah, it's almost like if you could buy that, like, uh, "Yeah, man, I'm taking this gum that puts you in like a small town feel, like woodsy Colorado feel, going through evergreen, looking at the mountains."

   15. SSSturgill Simpson0:54

       But you can, you can buy that. You just have to get out of, out of California, you know.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Yeah, no, for sure. But I was just thinking if you had a pill, a pill that did that, that would be a really expensive pill or a patch or some gum, you know, like nicotine gum, some, some, you know, peace and quiet gum.

   17. SSSturgill Simpson1:09

       Transports you to the wilderness.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       (laughs) How much would people pay for that, right? Like think about the people that buy Xanax and shit and just anything to just take a little bit of the edge off. Just take, take this edge off.

   19. SSSturgill Simpson1:22

       I don't know. I would, uh, I'd probably just buy it and smoke it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Yeah, I'd smoke the shit out of that.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson1:27

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       But then, but you'd be happy like living in downtown LA in some graffiti covered building.

   23. SSSturgill Simpson1:32

       No, no.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Hearing the horns go off.

   25. SSSturgill Simpson1:34

       I love the weather here. I do. I think that's why I have to come out for work or anything else, I never mind because every day it's perfect except I've been here for like four days and it's rained most of the time, so that's my luck, but uh...

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       LA's got beautiful-

   27. SSSturgill Simpson1:47

       The traffic, man, you just basically, I think you just sort of accept that you're gonna live in your car, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:53

       You're gonna be in your car a lot.

   29. SSSturgill Simpson1:54

       You're gonna be in your car. So everybody has nice cars, that's why everybody drives nice cars in LA.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       It's also because we're all really, really shallow.
2. 2:06 – 2:44

   Minimalism, success, and Sturgill’s relationship with “stuff” (cars & guitars)

   1. SSSturgill Simpson2:06

      I like cars.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:07

      I do too.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson2:07

      It's okay.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:08

      I think about your song when I drive my Bronco.

   5. SSSturgill Simpson2:12

      You got, you got a really nice Bronco.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:14

      (laughs)

   7. SSSturgill Simpson2:15

      I, I unfortunately no longer have a Bronco.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:18

      You need a Bronco in your life, man.

   9. SSSturgill Simpson2:20

      Yeah, but then I'd have a second car. It took me five years just to buy my first car, so.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       Yeah, you're one of the minimalist type characters, doesn't want to admit they're successful. I understand.

   11. SSSturgill Simpson2:28

       No, I got, I got no problem admitting that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:30

       (laughs)

   13. SSSturgill Simpson2:30

       I just don't, you know, I look, like I've always, I think it's from living out of a bag most of my adult life.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       Right.

   15. SSSturgill Simpson2:35

       And then you start, you know, I had one guitar for the first two or three years I was on the road.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Wow.

   17. SSSturgill Simpson2:41

       And then one day, you wake up and you have five guitars now.

3. 2:44 – 4:14

   Building and customizing guitars: from Telecaster “assembly” to artisan acoustics

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      Do you have a thing where, do guitars?

   2. SSSturgill Simpson2:46

      I don't really need all these guitars, you know. I only need that one, maybe two guitars is good, so.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:51

      But I feel like guitar makers must want to get you a guitar, right? Does that happen with musicians?

   4. SSSturgill Simpson2:57

      Yeah, actually I got one Martin made for me and that's, that's kind of an honor, obviously.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:02

      That's amazing.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson3:03

      Yeah, an old, really old historic legacy company. Um, but then, yeah, buddies build them and that kind of thing. Most of all is made my own at apartments.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:12

      Really?

   8. SSSturgill Simpson3:12

      At least Telecasters and stuff, you can buy parts and assemble them, uh, just as good as anything coming out of like what like a custom shop might be for a fraction of the cost.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:23

      Wow, that, I didn't know that was a thing.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson3:24

       And maybe even build an instrument that is, you know, more comfortable to play because you're building it to the exact specifics that maybe somebody doesn't mass manufacture.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       Well, I guess if you know guitars as well as you know them and you've been around them your whole life, that totally makes sense. Like what, it's wood and parts, right?

   12. SSSturgill Simpson3:41

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       If you know how-

   14. SSSturgill Simpson3:41

       A Telecaster is basically this table bolted to a baseball bat cut in half, you know what I mean?

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       Right.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson3:47

       It's hard to fuck that up, so.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       (laughs)

   18. SSSturgill Simpson3:48

       The rest of it's just electronics and the pickups have a lot, and anything outside of that is just your fingers and who's actually holding the thing, but like to build one is not that complicated.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       Wow.

   20. SSSturgill Simpson3:58

       Now, Les Paul or a Martin acoustic guitar, that's literally like a hand-shaped, uh, piece of work that has to be made from start to finish, whereas, you know, the guitars I'm talking about building, you're just assembling. There's like parts that are-

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       Yeah.

   22. SSSturgill Simpson4:13

       ... widely accessible.

4. 4:14 – 7:56

   Classical guitar discipline, martial arts crossover, and obsession as a driver of mastery

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      I have a buddy that's, uh, a classical guitarist.

   2. SSSturgill Simpson4:16

      That's an art. That's a whole other thing.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      Yeah, he's, uh, he always had his nails grow long when he'd do jujitsu. Dmitri, shout out to my friend Dmitri Diachenko. Uh, he had, uh, to tape over his, uh, fingernails, like when he did jujitsu, because he had claws.

   4. SSSturgill Simpson4:29

      He didn't claw bitches eyes out.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:31

      He would claw motherfuckers.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson4:32

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:32

      I mean, he had, he had ridiculous, uh, long nails and powerful nails too, because he strummed with his nails, like that's what he did. Like he did everything he did with his fingers. He's amazing at it. I mean, just freaky amazing. You'd watch him play and you'd be like, "Holy shit."

   8. SSSturgill Simpson4:48

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:48

      You know. I saw him play live a bunch of times and he would do like people would hire him to do like parties and shit. But it's like a, it's an art form that, for whatever reason, I don't think it's the kind of respect that it deserves.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson5:01

       No, Flamenco and classical guitar players, that's, that's some highly complex musicianship.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       Amazing. Yeah, and so he would always explain to me like guitars.

   12. SSSturgill Simpson5:09

       Really beautiful instruments.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       Like how they were constructed. And it's amazing to me that... There he is. That's Dmitri. That dude was the heavyweight on the TaeKwonDo team that I was on when I was, uh, like a lightweight. I was like 155 pounds and he was fighting heavyweight. That dude used to fuck people up. He's got those crazy Ukrainian genes where he's just got giant hammers.

   14. SSSturgill Simpson5:33

       He's chicken picking there, that's like...

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       Oh, he's a bad motherfucker.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson5:37

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       Now, I don't know shit about guitar. I know it sounds awesome and I know that sounds awesome, but to you as a person who plays guitar.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson5:47

       Well, that's country guitar. That's like, he's chick- what we call chicken picking, what he's doing on that classical guitar is pretty cool. He could, he might as well be on lower Broadway right now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:54

       He's a bad motherfucker, right?

   20. SSSturgill Simpson5:55

       He is a bad motherfucker. For sure.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:57

       Yeah. And was a Massachusetts state TaeKwonDo heavyweight champion.

   22. SSSturgill Simpson6:01

       He also doesn't make silly faces, I like that.... you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:04

       He went on to compete after I stopped competing. He competed at a really high level nationally. Like, uh, fought in some big national tournaments-

   24. SSSturgill Simpson6:11

       So when he puts that guitar down, he's still a bad motherfucker, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:14

       He's a bad ... That's a legit bad motherfucker. He's a big boy too. Like, he's a natural 220. Like, the big Ukrainian rock f- people.

   26. SSSturgill Simpson6:23

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       They're just thicker people.

   28. SSSturgill Simpson6:25

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:25

       They're rock people. They can pick rocks up and shit. Then on top of that, unbelievable guitarist. Crazy.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson6:33

       How do ... How do you know him?
5. 7:56 – 13:36

   Band chemistry and life on the road: the “hang,” routines, and travel fatigue

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:56

      Yeah, that's what I always thought about bands. Like, that's gotta be the hardest part is everybody just being cool.

   2. SSSturgill Simpson8:01

      Typically, that's-

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:02

      Bunch of crazy artists.

   4. SSSturgill Simpson8:03

      Well, yeah, especially, um ... I mean, it's really all about the hang more than anything. I'm, uh, I'm down ... I got me and three other guys in my band now, 'cause it ... And it's like everybody's a great hang.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:15

      That's awesome.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson8:15

      Everybody gets along, and we're, like, actually friends, and (sighs) you go out every night, we're just like, you know?

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:21

      Yeah, if you could pull that off ... And it makes the road better. Like, when I go on the road, I bring, like, Ian Edwards or Tony Hinchcliffe or any of my, my other friends that, that can do it. If ... It's a ... It's all about like whether the- they're free that weekend, that's usually how I book it.

   8. SSSturgill Simpson8:34

      Yeah, 'cause you're gonna be around these people for weeks, man.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:36

      Oh, man, we have the best time. I don't do weeks. I just do a couple days at a time. I never go on the road for more than a Thursday, Friday, Saturday anymore. I just stopped doing that.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson8:43

       Are you a weekend warrior?

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       Yeah.

   12. SSSturgill Simpson8:44

       Really?

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       And I only do it twice a week.

   14. SSSturgill Simpson8:46

       Is that because of you ... the kids, and just you like being home and-

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:48

       Yep. Yep.

   16. SSSturgill Simpson8:48

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:48

       I like, I like being home, and also, uh, because travel makes-

   18. SSSturgill Simpson8:53

       Trav- travel makes you old? (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Well, it's just not good for you.

   20. SSSturgill Simpson8:55

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:55

       It's just not good for you. Um, uh, it's ... So it's all those things. It's I like being around my family. I like being at home. I like being around my friends. And also, um, I just don't think it's a healthy thing. I think travel on occasion is okay, but I think once you start getting into, like, every weekend flying, I've heard of people doing that, and I'm like, "You're beating your body up."

   22. SSSturgill Simpson9:15

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       There's no, there's no if, ands, or buts about it.

   24. SSSturgill Simpson9:18

       It ... Well, it's, it's, it's one of the, the best things about certainly my job and, and your job. You get to go out and, and perform and entertain, but I've al- since, since things sort of took off for me, I realized very early on I'm g- I get paid to travel.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       Yeah.

   26. SSSturgill Simpson9:35

       The shows are free. Like, that shit's fun. You know what I mean? Like, that's just-

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       (laughs) Right, right.

   28. SSSturgill Simpson9:39

       We're out there doing what we love to do.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:40

       Right.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson9:40

       But it's all the in between and the beat down your body takes and being out of any kind of routine, away from your family. That's, that's the really ... the thing that y- you come off of, like, four or five weeks straight of that, and, you know, I'm a ... I'm a pretty healthy 39-year-old dude, and it takes me four or five days just to get off the fucking couch-
6. 13:36 – 20:46

   Buses vs. hotels, Willie Nelson’s arrest, and the case for weed/hemp legalization

   1. SSSturgill Simpson13:36

      No, th- that's, I can't do the hotel rooms, man.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      (laughs)

   3. SSSturgill Simpson13:38

      I get, I get it. You know, when you started out and you meet all, you start going on, you play, like, festivals or shows with your heroes and they're on buses before you are. And you go on and you talk to these guys and, and they're like, you realize, like, they live in this thing. They're institutionalized in the back of this bus and they never get off the bus and you're like, "I don't get it." And then it happens to you, and you realize that, that's like this little safe space. Like, a hotel room overnight for me, I will go, I'll go crazy waiting for a show. You're, like, caged up in this little box, you know? With cable TV and nobody to talk to and...

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:09

      I got sour on buses when they pulled over Willy and arrested him for weed on his bus.

   5. SSSturgill Simpson14:14

      That guy should've been demoted, man. Like, like, really-

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:17

      For sure. For sure.

   7. SSSturgill Simpson14:18

      You got Willy on a pot charge?

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:19

      (coughs)

   9. SSSturgill Simpson14:19

      Good for you, Sherlock.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       How dare you?

   11. SSSturgill Simpson14:22

       (laughs) Okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:22

       Whoever you are. There's things you just gotta let slide.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson14:25

       That was in Texas too, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:26

       Yep. Texas doesn't play when it comes to weed, unfortunately. It's really silly. If it did, it would change Texas. It'd make it better. Like, it... Relax some of those fucking cowboys. Settle down. (laughs) And why are you saying it shouldn't be legal, stupid? That's crazy. The fact that that's still an argument in 2018? You know what they said? Here's a funny one. One of the most recent arguments that I've read was that more pedestrians were walking out (laughs) into traffic because of legal weed and dying, so, like, there's been uptick everywh-... I shouldn't laugh at that. That's rude. It could be me. Right?

   15. SSSturgill Simpson15:02

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       It could be me.

   17. SSSturgill Simpson15:03

       It definitely-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:03

       Why am I laughing?

   19. SSSturgill Simpson15:04

       It was almost me this morning.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:05

       Yeah.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson15:06

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       I'm an asshole. I'm sorry. I apologize. But I thought it was pretty funny, this idea that, uh, there's an uptick in people just walking out into cars, (slaps hands) getting hit by cars 'cause they're just spacing out 'cause they're high.

   23. SSSturgill Simpson15:18

       I, I think it should be legal just because I'm from Kentucky and if they gave all those farmers and, and, uh, you know, ex-coal industry employees an, an industry that would really thrive since it grows extremely well in Kentucky, uh, you know, instead of soybeans and tobacco, those guys could actually generate an income-

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       What do you think's holding it back?

   25. SSSturgill Simpson15:38

       ... for their family and community. Politics. Actually, that's not true. Mitch McConnell out there, or somebody, someone, like, really staunch right-wing guy in Kentucky came out and was even pushing for legislation towards at least the hemp industry, which would be incredible.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       Yeah.

   27. SSSturgill Simpson15:50

       Um-

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       The hemp industry is a no-brainer. The hemp industry would be incredible-

   29. SSSturgill Simpson15:52

       If you can look at the tax numbers alone and the-

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       Yeah. Well, you know, we buy hemp for Onnit and for the longest time, we'd had to buy it in Canada because y- you couldn't get it in the United States 'cause until recently, it wasn't legal to grow. And so to get, like, the best stuff that has the highest protein content, we'd have to fucking ship it in from Canada. You can't even grow it here. Now you can, um, but when, I mean, w- when did we start Onnit? That's not that long ago. I wanna say, like, seven years ago? Something like that? So, we, that was, like, one of the first things that we did is, uh, make a really good help, uh, hemp protein powder and when we were looking into it, we were like, "I can't even believe that you can't grow this." Like, doesn't do anything to your consciousness. Zero. It doesn't affect you at all. Because it's related to pot, it's illegal. It's insane.
7. 20:46 – 24:34

   Propaganda, health uses, texting-and-driving, and today’s constant argument culture

   1. SSSturgill Simpson20:46

      Yeah, my grandmother, uh, she just had some, some, some health stuff and it's like, you know, how do I ... You know, she's pretty old-school, but like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan20:57

      Right.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson20:58

      ... kn- knowing there's this thing out there that, that isn't anything that these doctors are gonna offer her that's just gonna make her feel awful.

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:04

      Yeah.

   5. SSSturgill Simpson21:05

      And, and, uh, you know, or have to go through all of that, but someone to just give you comfort and, or ease nausea or make you wanna eat food or those kinda things. Like, why wouldn't you want someone you love and care about to have that? But then at the same time, you know, you don't wanna be the person trying to (laughs) feed pot to your grandmother, you know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:23

      Yeah, it's a hard sell. It's a hard sell. Yeah, it's just stunning how well propaganda from 1933 carried all the way the fuck to 2018. It's stunning.

   7. SSSturgill Simpson21:41

      Is it? I mean ...

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:41

      But it's almost 100 years.

   9. SSSturgill Simpson21:43

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:43

       With what we kn- like, the amount of information that you can get on a subject now, like say if you're, the b- the medical benefits of cannabis. Just Google that and you'll just start reading all the shit. It, like, i- if- it seems to me that enough people would go, "Wait, wait what are we doing?" Like, why is it illegal? Nobody's died from it. Like, no one. More people die of aspirin every year, 'cause zero die from pot, so it's, uh, really, the number's zero. It doesn't mean that people aren't gonna get high and walk out of traffic. Some, some are gonna. But I think part of that is because we're not teac- teaching people how to get high properly. If someone gets high for the first time, you let 'em take 10 hits.

   11. SSSturgill Simpson22:16

       How many, I wonder how many of those people that are getting hit by cars are actually looking at their phones?

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       Could be a lot. They were high and looking at their phones.

   13. SSSturgill Simpson22:22

       You don't see that here like you do in, in Nashville. I drive around, I don't know, that's like a th- I can't, I hate that. You, like, every, I'm just driving around town and everybody's texting, everybody's looking down. You can always spot 'em on the interstate.

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:32

       Yep, weaving.

   15. SSSturgill Simpson22:33

       You know? But you don't see that in California. You guys p- you guys have, like, really heavy laws about it or something?

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Saw it today.

   17. SSSturgill Simpson22:37

       Yeah? Did you?

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       Saw it today. Some lady had drifted completely in my lane and I looked over at her and I saw the, the back of her head, like, I was, I was on the r- her driver's side, I was on that side looking over at her and all I saw was the back of her head. She literally wasn't looking at my car and she was just looking at her phone and working her thumb and occasionally, like, looking up at the screen. Or looking up at the windshield. I was like, "Whoa, you crazy lady." You think just 'cause you're going 40 miles an hour that's okay 'cause you're on a side street? Like, you're not even looking where you're going. You're driving a car, what if you hit a kid? Jesus Christ. Fuck. What if you s- like, slam into some old lady? (slaps table) You know? What if you rear-end a bike? You're not even looking. You didn't even notice the bike was there. Boom, you run over some guy's leg. What in the fuck lady? Or dude. Maybe I was misgendering. I don't know. I don't know what her status is.

   19. SSSturgill Simpson23:30

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:30

       You gotta be real careful today, Sturgill.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson23:32

       Man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:32

       Is it like that in Nashville? Is everybody like super progressive?

   23. SSSturgill Simpson23:33

       I don't know, bro. I don't leave the house.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:35

       (laughs)

   25. GUGuest23:35

       (laughs)

   26. SSSturgill Simpson23:36

       I really don't have any idea. I just sorta-

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       I think that's a good move. (laughs)

   28. SSSturgill Simpson23:40

       Um, yeah, you know? I like my kids. Um, I mean, I, I'm somewhat aware of everything going on. It, it's s- surprising that none of that's really hit the music business-

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson23:53

       ... as hard as it has. But, um, uh, there's just, yeah, I try to just do my thing.
8. 24:34 – 28:56

   Nukes, politics as reality TV, and the problem of “one alpha chimp” leadership

   1. SSSturgill Simpson24:34

      And I, and I don't mean that in any generalized middle of the road, just looks kinda, looks like-... crazy shit with super powers, talking about nuclear bombs all the time every day now and it's just like, how did we get back there?

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:45

      Right.

   3. SSSturgill Simpson24:46

      (laughs) You know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:47

      Yeah. How did we get back to Putin telling us that he has-

   5. SSSturgill Simpson24:49

      (clears throat)

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:49

      ... some new nuclear missile that you can't defend against?

   7. SSSturgill Simpson24:50

      Yeah, man. Did you see that shit? The, the-

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      Like, yeah.

   9. SSSturgill Simpson24:53

      ... 1500-meter tsunami wave of apocalyptic death that that thing could bomb out? It's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:58

       It's f-

   11. SSSturgill Simpson24:58

       Yeah, why the fuck, man?

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       And we don't have a defense, uh, system that can deal with it, so he's basically saying, "I could kill you. I have a gun pointed at your head. I could kill you any time. Welcome to 2018. Oh, yeah. Donald Trump's president."

   13. SSSturgill Simpson25:11

       I did that too, by the way, you know? (laughs) You know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       Yeah.

   15. SSSturgill Simpson25:17

       I don't know, man. It's terrifying.

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:19

       It's, it's definitely cause for concern. And all this while pot's illegal. Pot's illegal, but it's legal to have a guy who was the host of The Apprentice run the nuclear armament. (laughs)

   17. SSSturgill Simpson25:32

       (laughs) Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:32

       Or armory. You'd say armory, right?

   19. SSSturgill Simpson25:35

       Uh, you know, I got in some trouble a few months ago 'cause I, I did this... I had nothing to do one night and I went down and it was all, the whole thing was just a protest kind of based on, like, answering questions. And that's just like the promise I made. This buddy of mine had, uh, he videotaped it and he had a press pass so they couldn't tell us to turn the camera off and somebody asked me, "What do you think about Trump?" and I answered it. But, uh, so what they didn't ask, "What do you think of all politicians?" You know what I mean?

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:04

       Right.

   21. SSSturgill Simpson26:04

       So, like, that, to me, like, nothing ever really changes. Like, right, left, this or that, it's all just sort of a different version of the people you never really see.

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:14

       We can't have an alpha chimp.

   23. SSSturgill Simpson26:16

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:16

       It's a stupid position. We shouldn't have it anymore. We shouldn't have had it a long time ago. We should've figured out a long time ago that you can't have one person run the whole show. It's insane. It doesn't work. It's crazy for them too. It's not good for anybody. It's not... We, we, we can't pretend anymore that one person is special above other people. Like, royalty doesn't work anymore. It doesn't work.

   25. SSSturgill Simpson26:36

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:36

       We're all just people. It doesn't work. And you c- you can't get voted into the number one person on the world. That's fucking ridiculous.

   27. SSSturgill Simpson26:43

       Apparently you can.

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       You can, but you shouldn't be able to.

   29. SSSturgill Simpson26:46

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:46

       It's n- it's, it's too old. It's too antiquated.
9. 28:56 – 33:11

   Markets, pump-and-dumps, Bitcoin skepticism, and the creep toward cashless control

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:56

      Right, they do do it. But they get in b- like, here's one that they get in real big trouble for. Here's one that I think is interesting. They, um... Trump recently, uh, did something about steel, about, uh, bringing steel back to the United States and steel manufacturing back in the United States. But before he did it, one of his homies bought a shitload of stock in steel, like one of his, like, super rich dudes. And so then the question is, like, hey, should he have been allowed to do that? Isn't that insider trading?

   2. SSSturgill Simpson29:24

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:24

      And you're like, wait a minute. You can't just know shit. If I know shit, what am I supposed to do? I'm not supposed to buy stock? Like, well then, if you do know shit and you buy stock, is that fair? That doesn't seem fair. What's the answer there?

   4. SSSturgill Simpson29:38

      (sighs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:38

      The answer is the system sucks! You got a wacky ass fucking crazy system that all your money's based on, where people can just buy and say, sell parts of companies.

   6. SSSturgill Simpson29:47

      Yeah. We're all-

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:48

      We're all...

   8. SSSturgill Simpson29:48

      I think the Chinese pretty much bought all the steel companies rights a while back. They were smart enough to say, "Oh, you don't want that? Okay."

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:55

      Nobody's ever gonna go back though. Once you can make money off the stock market, fuck that. I'm making money off moving numbers around on my computer. Fuck you, I'm staying.

   10. SSSturgill Simpson30:02

       Do you play it?

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       No.

   12. SSSturgill Simpson30:04

       That shit's terrifying.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:05

       Terrifying.

   14. SSSturgill Simpson30:05

       No way.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:06

       No. Get the fuck outta here with that. I've, I've, I've gained and lost before. I, I was a victim of a pump and dump scheme-

   16. SSSturgill Simpson30:12

       I get, I get nervous at the Wheel of Fortune dollar slots, man, in Vegas. You know what I mean? Much less-

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       You should. Those are dangerous.

   18. SSSturgill Simpson30:18

       That's just like... Okay.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       (clears throat) They lure you in.

   20. SSSturgill Simpson30:20

       I'm down 19. I gotta get the fuck outta here, you know? (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       I was a victim of a pump and dump ste- scheme. Um, this dude told me to buy this stock. He's like, "Dude, I'm telling you, this stock's about to blow up." The guy was a coke dealer, so I knew he was honest, trustworthy, easy to listen to. (laughs)

   22. SSSturgill Simpson30:34

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       I didn't know he was a coke dealer at the time. He... I just thought he was a comic. And so he would tell me about this stock and we bought into it. I don't, I don't think I bought that much, but it was, like, a few thousand dollars, which is not that big of a deal if you're, uh-... you know, you're looking at the greater spectrum of how much money people lose-

   24. SSSturgill Simpson30:50

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       ... uh, in the stock market. That's a g- I lost nothing. I mean, people lose their whole, v-, their whole life savings, their fortune, their, their, w- what they've inherited. People can lose it like that in the stock market. So we bought in, me and my business manager. (laughs) And it went up for a little while. It went up because more people were telling more people to buy it, and then it just crashed. And when I mean it crashed, it just went through the floor like it didn't exist anymore. It was like, it went from I forget what the number was, but it was, like, in the m- many dollars down to, like, a fraction of a cent. (laughs) Or a cent or three cent or something like that. It went down to virtually worthless, and we were like, "Oh, we got pumped and dumped." Like, that's what they do.

   26. SSSturgill Simpson31:29

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       They p- they pump it up. They get a bunch of people to join, and then once a bu- bunch of people are buying this stock, they're like, "Abandon ship!" (laughs) And I got fucked.

   28. SSSturgill Simpson31:38

       I remember Shooter going on about, years ago about the Bitcoin shit, man.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Yeah.

   30. SSSturgill Simpson31:42

       He, he got, he got hung up on the Bitcoin for a minute. I wish I'd listened.
10. 33:11 – 38:54

    Surveillance anxiety: targeted ads, free services, Alexa, and hackable cars

    1. SSSturgill Simpson33:11

       I was, I was texting one night with the guys in the ba... Uh, this is what really scared the shit out of me, d- like, I, I got off social media a while back completely again. I tried Twitter again. I probably told Jason and Isabella to give it a second shot, but I realized my kids are way more interesting. And, like, I'm trying to, you know, I'd just rather be writing a song or doing something else.

    2. JRJoe Rogan33:27

       Right.

    3. SSSturgill Simpson33:27

       And, uh, but one night, the, all, we were all had a group text going on, and somebody said something, made a jo- like a... There was a lot of '80s film buffs in our band, and somebody made, a, a Jean-Claude Van Damme reference. And dude, like, in five minutes later, I am not in any way exaggerating this. All, m- my wife and I are sitting there watching TV, surfing Netflix, and instantly it's like my entire channel is full of Jean-Claude Van Damme selections. And I was just like, "What in the fuck is going on?" I've never watched a Jean-Claude Van Damme film ever o- on Netflix, and now there's all this... It's like somehow, that got cross-marketed to my television set, just 'cause I'm on my telephone talking about this fucking guy.

    4. JRJoe Rogan34:08

       Whoa.

    5. SSSturgill Simpson34:08

       Freaked me out, man. I was like, "No more. I'm dumping everything."

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:11

       Dude, I've heard people tell me-

    7. SSSturgill Simpson34:13

       It's fucking weird, dude.

    8. JRJoe Rogan34:13

       ... that they were having conversations on the phone with someone, and then what they were talking about showed up in their Google Ads on their f- on their laptop. How's that work? How, how does that work?

    9. SSSturgill Simpson34:25

       I have no idea.

    10. JRJoe Rogan34:26

        Are they listening constantly?

    11. SSSturgill Simpson34:28

        Some people say yes.

    12. JRJoe Rogan34:28

        Jamie says yes.

    13. SSSturgill Simpson34:29

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan34:29

        Who listens to this?

    15. SSSturgill Simpson34:29

        Edward Snowden says yes.

    16. JRJoe Rogan34:31

        But that, but the fact that it shows up in your Google Ads, isn't that a little fucking obvious? I mean, that hasn't happened to me. Do you think that's real?

    17. GUGuest34:39

        100%.

    18. JRJoe Rogan34:40

        100%. Jamie's looking le- He looks like he should have a Guy Fawkes mask on right now. Slip on one of them fucking anarchist masks. Look at him.

    19. GUGuest34:47

        Definitely.

    20. JRJoe Rogan34:48

        He's smiling over there 100%. They're listening to us. Goddamn it.

    21. GUGuest34:53

        Gmail's free for a reason, you know?

    22. JRJoe Rogan34:54

        (gasps)

    23. SSSturgill Simpson34:55

        Boom, there it is.

    24. JRJoe Rogan34:56

        What, so they can read it?

    25. GUGuest34:57

        Definitely, yeah. They're reading everything.

    26. JRJoe Rogan34:59

        Wow.

    27. SSSturgill Simpson34:59

        It all makes sense now.

    28. JRJoe Rogan35:00

        That's intense. Now I'm freaking out, Jamie. Thanks. Thanks, buddy.

    29. GUGuest35:05

        (laughs) Hey.

    30. JRJoe Rogan35:06

        Fucked my head up, man.
11. 38:54 – 51:57

    Speed, Adderall culture, and writers who burned out: Kerouac to Hunter S. Thompson

    1. JRJoe Rogan38:54

       Good buddy of mine who's a doctor was just telling me that when he was in college, and he was going through, uh, all of his examinations, his friends started taking Adderall, and he recognized this giant jump in their performance. He was like, "What the fuck?" He goes, "They were smoking me in the grades." And I realized, "Oh, these guys are on PEDs."

    2. SSSturgill Simpson39:12

       I never, I never did it. I've never tried it. Uh-

    3. JRJoe Rogan39:15

       Wanna try right now?

    4. SSSturgill Simpson39:15

       Not really.

    5. JRJoe Rogan39:16

       We could do it together.

    6. SSSturgill Simpson39:16

       No. I'm, I kinda like to be-

    7. JRJoe Rogan39:18

       (laughs)

    8. SSSturgill Simpson39:19

       ... down here. You know what I mean? I don't ... I've never understood that, uh ... I guess it d- it never appealed to my disposition. (smacks lips) I don't think I would function.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:27

       If you wanted to build a log cabin right now-

    10. SSSturgill Simpson39:29

        Right now.

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:30

        ... it might be the way to go.

    12. SSSturgill Simpson39:31

        Right.

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:32

        (laughs)

    14. SSSturgill Simpson39:32

        Well, they said when Jack Kerouac wrote On The Road, he was, uh ... there on a lot of Benzedrine or like this little-

    15. JRJoe Rogan39:37

        Yeah.

    16. SSSturgill Simpson39:38

        ... inhalant things they used to buy.

    17. JRJoe Rogan39:39

        (laughs)

    18. SSSturgill Simpson39:40

        And he sat down and wrote the whole thing in, like, three days.

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:42

        Jesus Christ.

    20. SSSturgill Simpson39:43

        Or maybe a day. I can't remember the wh- I don't ... You know. I'm not a Beat aficionado, but I know that he was hopped out of his mind on speed and wrote the whole damn thing, like, in a scroll-

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:53

        (sighs)

    22. SSSturgill Simpson39:53

        ... on a, on a roof in Mexico while Ginsberg was probably downstairs molesting a little kid or some shit. I don't know.

    23. JRJoe Rogan39:57

        Jesus. That's a dark picture.

    24. SSSturgill Simpson40:00

        Right.

    25. JRJoe Rogan40:01

        (sighs) There used to be, uh ... What do you got there, Jamie? How a generation of Beat writers burnt out on speed. Wow. There was a big pool scene, um, in the 1970s-

    26. SSSturgill Simpson40:14

        Everybody was on speed back then.

    27. JRJoe Rogan40:16

        Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. It's pool players. That was the, uh, the thing with pool players back then, is that they would, uh, take speed and gamble. Peop- when people first found out about speed, it must've been the most amazing thing ever. Before they realized, like, how it could wreck you, I mean, think about it. There's no speed and then all of a sudden, 10, 20 years later, everyone's on speed.

    28. SSSturgill Simpson40:37

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan40:37

        I mean, it happened out of nowhere. There wasn't a bunch of speed burnouts that everybody could, like, look back on and go, "Oh, look at that guy over there. Learn from him." Like ... Especially like Adderall. Like, there's no, there's no burnouts, so everybody's been ... just been taking it for a few years.

    30. SSSturgill Simpson40:51

        A few years. Yeah.
12. 51:57 – 1:00:54

    Film/TV tangents: Vikings, binge-watching on tour, CGI vs practical effects, and changing norms

    1. JRJoe Rogan51:57

       I've been watching a lot of Vikings.

    2. SSSturgill Simpson51:59

       I haven't seen it, man. I've had like four people tell me to watch that shit. I don't have time. Uh-

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:03

       I didn't believe them. I didn't believe them. I'm like, "There's no way." It's on regular TV.

    4. SSSturgill Simpson52:07

       Is it that good?

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:07

       It's fucking good.

    6. SSSturgill Simpson52:08

       Really?

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:09

       It's a good show.

    8. SSSturgill Simpson52:09

       I'll check it out, man.

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:09

       You have to, you have to get through the first couple episodes. First couple episodes, you're a little like, "What?"

    10. SSSturgill Simpson52:14

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:15

        "What?"

    12. SSSturgill Simpson52:15

        My buddy Ferg's all about it. He's like, "Man, you gotta get on this Viking shit, man."

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:18

        It's good, man. They have to set things up. That's the problem with shows. You're not s-... You're a little skeptical until you get to know everybody, and then you, you get the feeling of the characters, then you get sucked in. That's why binge-watching is so awesome. You know-

    14. SSSturgill Simpson52:29

        Binge-watching is great for if you're, especially if you're a touring musician.

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:33

        Oh, yeah, right?

    16. SSSturgill Simpson52:34

        'Cause, uh, you know, I can never get into shows when they come out because I'll see a couple episodes, and then we go on tour for two months, and you're like, "What the fuck happened?" But now I can come home and just, you know, watch a season of something in a, in a day while I'm recuperating.

    17. JRJoe Rogan52:50

        Yeah.

    18. SSSturgill Simpson52:50

        My wife's pretty... She knows what, like good sh- the good shows, the programs and shit. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't know what to watch, but I've found a lot of things.

    19. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        Have you seen Stranger Things?

    20. SSSturgill Simpson52:59

        I saw the first season. Or no, I did see... Yeah, we saw those.

    21. JRJoe Rogan53:03

        What about Ozark?

    22. SSSturgill Simpson53:05

        Saw that.

    23. JRJoe Rogan53:06

        Fuck yeah.

    24. SSSturgill Simpson53:06

        I like, I like Bateman.

    25. JRJoe Rogan53:08

        That's a good one.

    26. SSSturgill Simpson53:08

        I like that sardonic shit.

    27. JRJoe Rogan53:10

        There's a new one coming out with, uh, Jared Leto.

    28. SSSturgill Simpson53:13

        About the Yakuza?

    29. JRJoe Rogan53:14

        Or is it a movie?

    30. GUGuest53:15

        Movie.
13. 1:00:54 – 1:21:51

    Kentucky roots, ancient places, and Europe’s time-scale perspective (Scotland, castles, churches)

    1. SSSturgill Simpson1:00:54

       Uh, Harry St- Harry Dean Stanton. He just died, I'm sad.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       What- Imagine the Daniel Boone days. Imagine being-

    3. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:02

       Brother, I l- I, I don't have to imagine where I live now.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       (laughs)

    5. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:05

       It is like (laughs) Daniel Boone days. I walk out, it's like, "Yep." There's a... They found this... Some, there's some caves down... We, we moved to the Smokies, where they just give land away down there.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

       Really?

    7. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:18

       And, uh, yeah, like, fucking...... my own woods now for less than what a townhouse in Nashville would cost.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

       (laughs) .

    9. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:25

       And, uh, but they ... The, the people I bought it from, they found a cave on the back, back of the property down like ... And we kind of back up to this national forest, and, um, there's a bunch of like 3,000-year-old Indian cave paintings in there, like Native American cave paintings.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

        Oh.

    11. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:40

        So the University of Chicago came down and studied it all. So now I'm gonna spend the rest of my life trying to figure out how to keep my fucking kids from going in there and doing something, you know.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

        Writing, "Dick was here."

    13. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:51

        Writing, yeah, drawing with big cock and balls-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:53

        (laughs) .

    15. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:53

        ... on, on, on the Indians, you know.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:55

        (laughs) . But here's the thing, that cock and balls-

    17. SSSturgill Simpson1:01:57

        Native Americans.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

        ... would be revered by people who found it 2000 years from now.

    19. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:00

        I don't know if we still say Indians, right?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

        Why do we say Indians? Yeah. I mean, if you went to a cave, uh, 2,000 years from now and they uncovered some cave and it was a bunch of dudes-

    21. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:07

        Advanced life comes, it's just cock and balls.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:08

        ... just drawing, guys jerking off.

    23. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:10

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

        People would be excited. They'd be like, "This is amazing."

    25. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:11

        They're like, "Well, this was 3,000 years later, what happened?" You know? (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:14

        Yeah. (laughs) Well, if you look at like some of the ancient artwork, right? Like how about some of the Roman statues with dudes grabbing each other's dicks and wrestling? Do you ever see that?

    27. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:22

        Really? I haven't seen that.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:23

        Yeah, yeah. They, they, they were wrestling, and, and in the process of wrestling, one dude's grabbing the other guy's junk, which they did do. They'd crush your balls and shit. That was a move back then. (laughs) And so-

    29. SSSturgill Simpson1:02:34

        Well, let's be honest, like in a real fight-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

        Yeah, it's a move.

Episode duration: 2:51:38