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Joe Rogan Experience #1091 - Daniele Bolelli

Daniele Bolelli is an Italian author, professor, and martial artist. His podcast called “History on Fire” is available on iTunes, and his most recent book “Not Afraid” is available on Amazon (http://amzn.to/1SYRwpU).

Joe RoganhostDaniele BolelliguestGuest (secondary, likely in-studio commentator)guest
Mar 14, 20182h 25mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:04 – 0:51

    Accents, biker-professor style, and launching History on Fire

    1. JR

      Boom, and we're live. Daniele Polelli, the man with the most beautiful accent in the world.

    2. DB

      I just read, uh, iTunes review saying, "It's kind of weird listening to this guy describing this horror story with the accent from... it sounds like he's making you pizza while he's talking."

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. DB

      And the thing is, they don't know I am making them pizza while I'm talking. That is what's happening.

    5. JR

      Yeah. And if they s- could see you, you look like a professor that was kidnapped by a biker gang-

    6. DB

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      ... and for- forced to... came in here with this red brotherhood jacket on, this leather jacket from these Native Americans with his big red fist on it.

    8. DB

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      He's got a bandanna on.

    10. DB

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      You, you just... You're missing a motorcycle, that's all you're missing.

    12. DB

      Right? That's, uh, that's next.

    13. JR

      You could be in, like, some Easy Rider type movie.

    14. DB

      Right?

    15. JR

      I could see it.

    16. DB

      Just carrying a shotgun too. I dig that.

  2. 0:51 – 3:54

    How a narrative history podcast gets built (research, notes, and performance)

    1. JR

      Yeah. So, uh, are you digging doing this podcast?

    2. DB

      Are you kidding me?

    3. JR

      History on Fire.

    4. DB

      Oh, man. I'm, I'm loving it. I'm having fun. Well, let's put it away. I love doing it. It's a royal pain in the ass, the research. 'Cause the-

    5. JR

      Well, your podcast, much like Dan Carlin's, is very different. I always feel ashamed calling my podcast a podcast 'cause it's just, you sit down and talk. But yours is like... It's an audio lesson on history, an in-depth audio lesson on, like, very extreme aspects of history.

    6. DB

      Yeah. It gets... A- and, you know, that part I enjoy because the storytelling part is awesome.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DB

      You get to spin a story, make it exciting, connect it with pop culture, do something that's fun. That's the part that I love. It's the month prior to that of just brutal research, just combing through boring historical book after boring historical book to find those little nuggets that are amazing-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DB

      ... and then spin it into a narrative. That's the part that gets a little old sometimes where you're like, "Man, I... Do I really need to read 200 hours of stuff for this one thing?" It's like, that's a lot.

    11. JR

      Yeah. I can only imagine. Now, when you do that, when you're going over, combing over all these different, uh, history books and all these different, uh, papers written on-

    12. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      ... various times, do you... are you, like, extracting chunks and, like, putting them in Microsoft Word and then going over it and then, like... How do you... Do you form it... Well, the question is kind of, like, do you form it as a script-

    14. DB

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... or how much of it... So everything is completely written out?

    16. DB

      No.

    17. JR

      No?

    18. DB

      Not exactly because otherwise then it sound like-

    19. JR

      Right.

    20. DB

      It sound like you're a guy reading a thing and it's boring.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. DB

      And it doesn't sound right. I just take super extensive notes, kind of like if you are to give a lecture that you've never given.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. DB

      You're not gonna sit down and read it, but you are going to, you know... You have something to keep you on track to make sure it's like, "Oh, where am I going next? Okay, great. There's that thing."

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. DB

      So it's, uh, as, uh, detailed as possible without turning it into a dry, guy reading his page, type of stuff.

    27. JR

      Yeah. I mean, (sighs) history is such a fucking awesome subject because p- people are crazy and throughout history-

    28. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      ... people have done so many crazy things that it's just... It's, it's such a great thing to know, like when you... If you only had today, like, if we only had o- our current era-

    30. DB

      Mm-hmm.

  3. 3:54 – 6:06

    Human nature under pressure: mob mentality, massacre psychology, and moral outliers

    1. JR

      Yeah. What is, like... when you go back and you, you go over history, what is the most confusing or disturbing era?

    2. DB

      You know, to me it's not so much a particular period o-... Because the same patterns emerge a lot of the times-

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. DB

      ... at different point in time, is, uh, is more of those moments, you know, when, uh, when mob mentality takes over. Because-

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. DB

      ... the reality is, the average person is not... I- I don't have the world view where I think the average person is evil.

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. DB

      I don't think that. I think the average person is weak, which means that when, uh, in conditions where everybody's pushing in one direction, it's very easy to jump on the bandwagon, and in some cases then, a very ordinary human being can do horrible actions. You meet them for dinner and you think, "A pleasant person, good enough." But you put them in the wrong context and everything turns to shit. I just did, um... I just finished right now this two-part series that's probably the most disturbing, and now I wanna do a podcast about flowers and puppies-

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. DB

      ... 'cause this one was heavy, man. I did this series on kind of compare and contrast on the Sand Creek Massacre of the Cheyenne in Colorado in the 1860s and then My Lai in Vietnam in, uh, 1968. And m-... Actually, I split it because I had... I did the Sand Creek and I had, um, this guy, Darrell Cooper was the Martyr Made podcaster. He's an amazing podcaster, and he covered My Lai and then in the third episode we're gonna sit down and kind of chat about-

    11. JR

      Hmm.

    12. DB

      ... what does this all mean, about the human nature? Why do... The reason why that particular story in those two stories interests me is because it's, um, it's a brutal massacre of civilians, but in both cases there are soldiers who refuse to participate or actually try to stop it. They're not the majority, they're a minority, but they are there and they try. So it's not just a story of people doing ugly stuff, it's like, what is that make one guy when order, "Hey, go shoot that three year old," one guy goes-

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. DB

      ... "Yes, sir." And does it, and the next guy goes, "No, that's not what we are. Screw you, I'm not doing that." That's what interests me, like the individual element of what make people in the exact same circumstances one person go down a really dark path and somebody else instead having the balls to say, "No, that's not who I am. That's not what we do."

  4. 6:06 – 7:40

    Silas Soule and the cost of refusing orders at Sand Creek

    1. JR

      With the Native American massacre, what, who was... how many people were the ones that refused? 'Cause you never hear about that.

    2. DB

      Right.

    3. JR

      All you hear about is the horrific actions of the soldiers.

    4. DB

      Yeah. Which was the majority-

    5. JR

      Was true.

    6. DB

      ... but there was also, like, there was this one guy, um, what's the guy name? Sila- Silas Soule. He was...Talk about a guy with bolts of iron, 'cause the guy, he and a couple of other officers refused to let the men under them, 'cause they were divided in different companies. So their companies, they said, "No, we're not participating in this. This is just straight-up slaughter. These guys are not even our real targets. These are a bunch of civilians." So they refused and then, uh, Silas Soule testified against his commander at the inquiry and then he was promptly murdered shortly after that.

    7. JR

      Wow.

    8. DB

      So it's like, it's a crazy story, but still to this day there are people from the Cheyenne tribe who, every year they have a ceremony for Silas Soule because they say, "Had it not been for him, a lot more of us would have died on that day." And he did a really brave thing and paid a price for it, so you know, if you're looking for heroism, you can do a lot worse than look at this guy's story, 'cause that guy was seriously, you know, stand up for his conviction under most extreme circumstances. So can't help but I admire that.

    9. JR

      Yeah, it had to be incredibly difficult to just imagine what those people were doing. I mean, when- when you hear some of the accounts of the slaughters of Native Americans, it's just terrifying that people can just look at someone and just decide, "That's not a person," or, "That's not us."

    10. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      "This is the other, they've got to be eliminated, so we're just gonna kill all these kids."

    12. DB

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      "Going to kill all these women."

    14. DB

      Yep.

  5. 7:40 – 10:47

    Disease, myth-making, and the ecological shock of colonization

    1. JR

      And it happened all over the country. I mean, y- there's, there's two things that happen to Native Americans. One, the big one, is disease.

    2. DB

      Sure.

    3. JR

      And it wasn't on purpose. There's this big f- myth that people put like, uh, they put smallpox-

    4. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      ... in blankets and that's all bullshit.

    6. DB

      Right.

    7. JR

      It's pretty much been proven that they didn't really understand-

    8. DB

      Right.

    9. JR

      ... bacteria or diseases.

    10. DB

      There's one story that's possible, it's not a proven thing, during... 'Cause initially nobody understood bacteria and disease.

    11. JR

      Right.

    12. DB

      So the first 100 plus years, completely unintentional. There was one tale about the French and Indian War, where during a break the British are talking about it saying, one of the commanders saying, "Hey, maybe we should give them some blankets from the smallpox hospital."

    13. JR

      Ah.

    14. DB

      But, you know, while we do know that he suggested it, we have no proof whatsoever that it was actually done.

    15. JR

      Mm.

    16. DB

      So, it's-

    17. JR

      So that's probably how the rumor got started, right?

    18. DB

      Probably.

    19. JR

      But m- in most cases what happened is just that the Europeans came over and just inadvertently-

    20. DB

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      ... introduced Native Americans diseases and 90% of them were wiped out.

    22. DB

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      That's a crazy number if you really stop and think about it.

    24. DB

      Yeah. It's considered probably the most dramatic demographic disaster in human history, because, you know, ne- never before you had a situation where a whole continent was not exposed to a series of diseases. And so of course there is no immunity the first time they are exposed. They, you know, you don't need to even have smallpox. You can sneeze-

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. DB

      ... on somebody and the next day half the village is dead, you know?

    27. JR

      Yeah, that's crazy. It's just, it's amazing that if, uh, a group of people just has not come in contact with something that other people come in contact with all the time-

    28. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      ... and just, "Ah, well you got a cold, you'll be fine. Just have some chicken soup, take a nap." Meanwhile these people are just dead.

    30. DB

      That's probably-

  6. 10:47 – 16:43

    Coyotes, urban predators, and what nature reveals about us

    1. JR

      Whoo. Man, that book changed the way I feel about coyotes.

    2. DB

      Yep.

    3. JR

      I used to be like, "Fuck those little rats. I'll run them over."

    4. DB

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      And now I'm like, "Those are little wolves, man. They're pretty badass."

    6. DB

      Yeah, they're smart. Yeah, that was a great episode. I enjoyed that one.

    7. JR

      Yeah, du- they are so gangster. One just stared me down the other day. I stopped my fucking car and, uh, just, you know, because he was in, it was, uh, kind of, uh, not a lot of people in this area. It was l- it was fairly late at night and he was on this road. I said, "I'm gonna just pull over and just see what this coyote does." And he just fucking stood like 30 feet from my car just staring at me.

    8. DB

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      Just staring at me.

    10. DB

      That's badass right there.

    11. JR

      Just like, "Whatever, dude. What are you gonna do? I'm about to run into these woods, you're never gonna see me again. Or I'll stick around, maybe if you fuck up I'll eat you."

    12. DB

      Right. (laughs)

    13. JR

      (laughs) I'm just trying to figure out what to do right here.

    14. DB

      Those guys don't mess around.

    15. JR

      It's crazy that they just can live and e- and be completely embedded in our society. Like, there, we had a biologist, what was the gentleman's name that we had from the, um, Department of, uh, Parks and Services? See if we can find this guy. But, um, he's actually a biologist who tracks coyotes.

    16. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      And, uh, he tracks them all over the state and, and even tracks mountain lions, they tag them and put those collars on them and stuff. Uh, but he said that there's a pack of coyotes that lives in downtown LA.

    18. DB

      Yeah, I believe it.

    19. JR

      In the heat of everything.

    20. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      They found some abandoned building and they, they'd end up in this abandoned building and that's where they live. Like how?

    22. DB

      Those guys are resilient, they thrive in anything.

    23. JR

      They thrive.

    24. DB

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. DB

      Here, you like crazy animal stories, so check this out about a coyote. There's... My mom went for a walk with her dog and her dog is a big mean dog, right? So they are walking and they see ahead of them this little girl, probably 10 years old with this tiny little five pound dog type of thing.And there's a coyote maybe like 20 yards behind her that's clearly stalking them and the girl-

    27. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    28. DB

      ... didn't see it. And he's obviously aiming for the five-pounder and is just ... And so my mom yell at her like, "Hey, watch out." So the girl freaks out, pick up the, her dog and she figures she's safe. Coyote doesn't give a fuck, he's still stalking them down. And so at that point my mom kind of let their dog go and the dog chased the coyote off and that was that. But I was like, "Man, those guys are dumb. Yeah, you don't want to leave little dogs running around in-"

    29. JR

      You don't wanna leave little girls around.

    30. DB

      I know. It's like why a 10-year-old-

  7. 16:43 – 22:21

    Insiders vs outsiders: adoption, torture, and Native tribal realities

    1. JR

      Wasn't it interesting when they talked about, when he talked about all of the people that were kidnapped by Native Americans that chose to live with them?

    2. DB

      Yep.

    3. JR

      And then when they were taken back by the Americans, by the, the settlers, you know, they were like, "Fuck this, I'm going back. I'm going back to the Native Americans." And they went and lived with them again.

    4. DB

      There's a-

    5. JR

      But no one went the other way.

    6. DB

      No. Not at all. (laughs)

    7. JR

      Yeah. Which is really crazy.

    8. DB

      It says something not flattering about-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DB

      ... the Euro-American culture of the time. Yeah, there's a great, uh, Benjamin Franklin quote. I'm, I'm gonna butcher it 'cause I, I only remember the beginning. Something about no European has tasted savage life and then basically going to can bear to come back to living in settlements.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DB

      Or something like that.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. DB

      And I'm like, "Yeah, that says something about-"

    15. JR

      'Cause it's fun.

    16. DB

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      (laughs) The way they're living, they're camping.

    18. DB

      Right.

    19. JR

      They're hunting and fishing every day, and you go back and these assholes are wearing powdered wigs and banging a wooden mallet on a table for everybody to pay attention. Fuck off.

    20. DB

      Exactly. (laughs)

    21. JR

      You know?

    22. DB

      That's hilarious. But that's-

    23. JR

      Hear ye, hear ye. (laughs)

    24. DB

      And that's what I mean about cultures, right? People sometimes will then romanticize native cultures as like, "Oh, they're all, you know, hug trees and talking with the furry creatures of the forest." And I'm like-

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. DB

      ... "Well, yes and no." There are, like, in what you mentioned, right? If you were captured, especially in the East when, like, French and Indian War or stuff like that were going on. If you were captured by, during a native raid, one of two things happen. The good one is that they like you and they decide to adopt you, and then you end up replacing one of their dead family members. So like if they lost a brother or a father.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. DB

      Then you become that person for reasons and purposes.

    29. JR

      That's crazy.

    30. DB

      Yeah, it is.

  8. 22:21 – 29:20

    Why utopian communes and cults collapse: power, certainty, and the need for leaders

    1. GC

      But it's always... It's fascinating that no... There's never been, like, a non-warring successful group of humans.

    2. 'Cause it only takes... You know, you can't really be a pacifist around somebody who isn't, you know? (laughs)

    3. Right.

    4. 'Cause, uh, yeah, you decide to go in this mellow, peaceful, happy society and you get your ass kicked by... There's a great story about the origins of not even... Before the United States, like, British colonies in what will become the United States. Everybody hears about, uh, Plymouth Rock, right? There's the whole... The Puritans, they show up, all of that. What usually people don't hear, um... And there was also played a little with this story in his book. There was this other settlement called Merrymount that was just down the street from Plymouth, but they were completely different. Their interpretation of Christianity was pretty much a pretty Christian Paganism mixed with a couple of Christian ideas. They had the exact opposite approach of the Puritans. They were having drunken orgies with the Native tribes. They were just-

    5. Really?

    6. ... yeah, they were the equivalent of, like, the hippies of the 1600s, just kicking back-

    7. (laughs)

    8. ... having fun. And the Puritans started getting edgy because when new people would show up on the coast, they would take a look at the Puritans, they would take a look at Merrymount and be like, "Yeah, I'm going to Merrymount."

    9. Right.

    10. "Fuck the Puritans. These guys are weeping themself and life sucks over there." And so, of course, that was bad competition. Even some Puritans were like, "See you, honey. I'm gone for a couple of weeks," 'cause... And so the, the hardcore guys decided, "Well, we can't have that." So they got their guns, showed up, and closed down Merrymount. And, and that's the problem. Like, had the Merrymount guys not been such a lazy hippies and actually got their act together and trained with guns and stuff, they would have been able to keep their community going with those values. All you just, you need a minimum of self-defense, otherwise- Yeah.

    11. ... somebody else squash you, which is exactly what happened.

    12. Was that the... from the, the name Loyola, Merrymount? Does it come from those people?

    13. I doubt it because, uh... You know what? I have no idea, so I'm gonna lie. But, but you know-

    14. (laughs)

    15. ... the thing is... (laughs) 'Cause, you know, Loyola doesn't strike me exactly as a drunken orgies-

    16. Right.

    17. ... with Native stories.

    18. No, not at all. That's why I was confused.

    19. Yeah.

    20. Yeah, I never heard of that before, but it makes sense that there'd be someone that would deviate.

    21. Mm-hmm.

    22. There's always someone who just looks at the way everyone else is doing it and just says, "This is fucking not for me, man."

    23. Totally.

    24. Yeah.

    25. JR

      But it always goes bad. Like, there's never been a cult where, uh, you know, they got together, formed a commune, and just really were cool to each other. (laughs)

    26. DB

      We ... I'm actually fascinated with exactly the thing you said. Why?

    27. JR

      (sighs)

    28. DB

      Why can't ... What's so damn hard about-

    29. JR

      It's power. It's the one-

    30. DB

      That's what it is?

  9. 29:20 – 35:49

    Dan Carlin, polarized politics, and media-amplified extremism

    1. DB

      And it's just ... Ah. I don't know, man. It's just ... Yeah. It was interesting. I don't know if you have been following, like, where, um, Dan Carlin, the stuff that he has been saying about his other show, Common Sense.

    2. JR

      I haven't listened to it lately.

    3. DB

      Yeah, he hasn't been releasing an episode lately. That's probably why you haven't, because he has kind of shut down with that. It's not officially done, but ... And his thing is, "My approach," meaning Dan talking, "My approach is to be com- somewhat subtle, somewhat, like, play and not be overly dogmatic one way or another, to think on my feet, to mix things together." And that's something that most people don't want in the current climate. Most people-

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. DB

      ... want the very black and white type of approach. Now, I disagree with Dan because I think that still there is an enormous need for what it provides.

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DB

      And I don't think that just giving up is the solution, but I do get it because it really doesn't take much. You know, if you start screaming at very dogmatic, either super leftist or super conservative approach, you get automatically a bunch of followers.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. DB

      If you are thinking on your feet and just going, "Hmm, this thing, yeah, you're right, but let's look at the other side," and constantly having, you know, what any decent human being should do, just being intellectually honest and thinking things through, not-

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. DB

      People don't respond to that because it's not that easy. Or rather, people do. Some people respond.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. DB

      But it's ... Number-wise, it's way a minority compared to what you get by being a, a black and white kind of guy.

    14. JR

      Yeah, people desire very clear a-... resolutions and very clear thinking in terms of, like, uh, enemy, friend.

    15. DB

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      This is a black and white issue. There's ... But D- I think Dan also just felt overwhelmed by the times.

    17. DB

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      He was like, "This just seems like everything's so fucked up, I'd rather not even talk about it and just sit back and- "

    19. DB

      I know.

    20. JR

      "... see what is, is really happening."

    21. DB

      We were on the phone, uh, I swear, I spent like an hour on the phone with you, where we went back and forth. I was playing, in my mind I was playing, uh, remember the second movie of Lord of the Rings where there's... Frodo carrying the ring, he's all like-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. DB

      ... "I can't do this anymore."

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. DB

      And there's Sam going, "Come on! You need to..." I think I, I need to step up my game. I'm a shitty Sam, 'cause I was trying to do that for Dan, and just kind of-

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. DB

      ... motivate him, and I miserably failed, so.

    28. JR

      I respect where he's coming from. He said that when he was on the show recently, um, he w- he was talking about that sort of same thing, that he's kind of put that podcast on hold. Long as he keeps doing his podcast, Hardcore History is just so important, I think. I think him and you are providing, you guys are providing a, an entertaining and interesting history lesson that really wasn't available before. I mean...

    29. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JR

      ... before you could get a book on tape, and if it was a really well-written book and it was read by someone with, like, good dramatic flair, it was exciting stuff, but nobody really got into it. I b- I bet the numbers, if you consider the numbers of people that have listened to his podcast and your podcast in comparison to, like, before you guys were around-

  10. 35:49 – 40:15

    Rome, the Vatican, Caravaggio the ‘gangster painter,’ and censorship in art

    1. JR

      Since the last time you were on the podcast, I went to Rome.

    2. DB

      Oh.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. DB

      Oh, yeah, I saw that you did-

    5. JR

      I traveled.

    6. DB

      ... the Italian trip, yeah, yeah.

    7. JR

      Dude. It's, uh, that's one of those things where you just have to, like, "No one talk to me for a second. I'm gonna try to process this."

    8. DB

      Okay.

    9. JR

      You know? Like, we had a great guide, uh, who was a professor, who was really, was really cool. Um, he guides people-

    10. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      ... in the meantime, and he was just so excited to talk to me because I was so into it.

    12. DB

      Of course.

    13. JR

      You know, because most of the time, you know, people are just, like, barely curious about what he has to say, but, you know, we talked about the significance of the pineal gland and the pine cone-

    14. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      ... in the, in the Vatican, and, you know, he takes you on a tour of all the different artifacts. That's, that's a trip that I feel like ... But just going there, especially the Vatican, going there, the Colosseum was big too, but going to the Vatican and just seeing all that artwork and getting an understanding of what those people were really up to for hundreds and hundreds of years-

    16. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      ... just conquering the world for hundreds and hundreds of years, and all this artwork.

    18. DB

      Yep.

    19. JR

      Seeing it live in person just sort of reset my perspective.

    20. DB

      Yeah, it's amazing. It's, uh, yeah, Rome is a place that you have never... Once in your lifetime you've got to do it, you know? It's just, uh... I don't know if you have been, there's a place...... uh, Castel Sant'Angelo, which is kind of close to the Vatican. And, but if you go to the top of this castle, you basically get a panoramic view of all of Rome from there.

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. DB

      It's so spectacular. It just... It's wild.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. DB

      You see the river, you see all the buildings, you see everything, and then you climb back down and you just do your walks. And, and, uh, what was I seeing in... Oh, one thing that I saw in Rome that I was blown away by, you know this artist, um, Caravaggio, who was, uh, the painter? Never... That, that guy, I love that guy because basically what happens with this dude is, he was around in the, what was the end of the 1500... Yeah, end of the 1500s, early 1600s. And Caravaggio was a straight-up gangster. Like, he was probably the best artist of the era. To me, he's probably the best artist of all time. It's like, you look at his paintings and he's just insane what he could do with paint. But then, he had this life on the street as a, as a literal gangster. He would just get... He, at one point, killed a guy in a duel, was wanted for murder. Every time he would get close to power and they would... Yep, that's Caravaggio for you right there.

    25. JR

      Look at how amazing that painting is.

    26. DB

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      And what year was this made? Around-

    28. GC

      1599.

    29. DB

      Yep.

    30. JR

      God, look how good it is.

  11. 40:15 – 56:15

    Sexual repression, taboo psychology, and the modern porn superstimulus

    1. JR

      (laughs) That was... The other thing that, um, this guy was explaining to me was that the penis sizes-

    2. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      ... of the Roman statues, they were all small because big penises were supposed to mean stupid people-

    4. DB

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      ... and, like, aggressive animals that were just, you know, not a part of the civilized, amazing culture that Rome represented.

    6. DB

      So there was pride in the micro penis? (laughs)

    7. JR

      Yeah. Well, it wasn't micro, but it was, uh, definitely not-

    8. DB

      That's funny.

    9. JR

      ... not optimal.

    10. DB

      That's hilarious. (laughs)

    11. GC

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      Yeah, I was like-... 'Cause I was asking, I was like, "What do you think that is?" We were trying to figure it out.

    13. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JR

      You know, we were talking about it before the professor gave me an answer, and I was like, "Maybe they just, like, had littler dicks back then." Like, maybe it was just, you know-

    15. DB

      Right.

    16. JR

      ... that was just how it went. And he's like, "No, it just..." I think they probably associated big dicks with rape, with, like, the, the barbarians-

    17. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JR

      ... and the Moors and all these people coming in and chopping people up and fucking the shit out of everybody. And like, "No, no, no, we don't want that."

    19. DB

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      "We don't want that." Little tiny dicks, like, so-... Sophisticated dicks.

    21. DB

      Sophisticated dicks. (laughs)

    22. JR

      Dicks of people who write poetry, you know what I'm saying?

    23. GC

      Vandalism, maybe? They stole the big dick off the statue. (laughs)

    24. JR

      No, no, they didn't steal the big dicks. No, they were, they were clearly made by the artist. One thing they did do, though, in certain eras, they covered the dicks with leaves. It wasn't initially what they would do.

    25. DB

      Right.

    26. JR

      And they went back on a lot of them and repurposed them and p- put new leaves over dicks.

    27. DB

      I think you know right now that there are gonna be about seven punk bands borrowing the name from you, like Sophisticated Dicks-

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. DB

      ... will be the name of a new punk band coming out tomorrow.

    30. JR

      That would be a good band.

  12. 56:15 – 1:20:13

    Synchronicity, intuition, and the limits of rational explanations

    1. JR

      Right.

    2. DB

      "It helped me to make decisions earlier, but right now it's not gonna help me, so let's figure out..." Man, it was hilarious. There's, um... My girlfriend fights MMA professionally and she's-

    3. JR

      Yeah, I've noticed that.

    4. DB

      Yeah, she's wild, man. She's-

    5. JR

      I've been paying attention to, uh, your escapades online. (laughs)

    6. DB

      Yeah. It's... She's-

    7. JR

      She's crazy, huh?

    8. DB

      She's crazy. She's, uh-

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. DB

      She literally had that Chuck Liddell mode, where she, she took a nap right before a fight. And, you know, like, 45 minutes before, you have to wake her up going like-

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DB

      "Hey, you ready?" And she's all like, "Okay. Ready to roll." And I'm like, "I would not sleep for a week prior." How do you manage to keep it together like this, you know?

    13. JR

      It's good to do. I used to do that. I used to sleep before fights. It's good.

    14. DB

      That's awesome. That's-

    15. JR

      Yeah, but it... You- you- you- you just can get yourself into a more calm state.

    16. DB

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      It's so much better than, um, frantically running around and freaking out and fretting. Plus, it's, uh... It's, uh, it freaks out your opponents. I would sleep, like, right on the bleachers.

    18. DB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      I'd just go to sleep right there and everybody else would be nervous and shit, and you're sleeping.

    20. DB

      Exactly. You look at them-

    21. JR

      You know? Wait a minute.

    22. DB

      ... "I'm supposed to fight that guy?"

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. DB

      "The guy who's sleeping right before the fight? Hell no." Like, the first match I did, man, it was nuts because, you know, you're in the locker room, and there's the guy sitting next to you. Goes out for his match, come right back. His side is split open-

    25. JR

      Covered in blood, yeah.

    26. DB

      ... covered in blood and they're telling you, "Okay, you get ready. You're going next."

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. DB

      And I'm dying, right?

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. DB

      I'm just thinking, "How the hell..." And she's all like, "La la la." (singing)

Episode duration: 2:25:47

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