Joe Rogan Experience #1123 - Kevin Smith

Joe Rogan 0:08 Biatch. We're live. Dude, we always, we always say-

Kevin Smith 0:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:13 ... we're gonna do these regularly.

Kevin Smith 0:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:15 Every, like, two or three years, we pledge that we will do these regularly. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 0:19 And then a decade goes by- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 But we're here.

Kevin Smith 0:21 ... and then we don't see each other. But I hope that in your heart, just like mine, that, uh, it's not like, "Ugh, I've had enough of that fuck."

Joe Rogan 0:29 No, no, no, it's life.

Kevin Smith 0:30 It's like, you know, he... I know how f-... I see how busy you are. You're one of the few people I follow on Instagram. And I, I've said it on the previous show, I just love to look at your life 'cause I'm like, "Fuck, he's doing everything he wants and nothing I'd ever wanna do-

Joe Rogan 0:43 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 0:43 ... but, fuck, he goes to the hill." And not in a judge-y way of, like, "He shouldn't be doing that," but just, like, you know, you li-... I've said it, but you live a man's life. I live a boy's life as a 47-year-old man.

Joe Rogan 0:53 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 0:53 So you do things like you got a float tank, you hunt, you got a fucking... You know how to handle a bow and arrow. I'm the guy that writes about people that shoot bow and arrows to stop crimes. They usually have boxing gloves at the end of them and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Yeah, but that's good too. Like, we all-

Kevin Smith 1:07 Oh, believe me, I ain't shit on it.

Joe Rogan 1:08 We need it all. Like...

Kevin Smith 1:08 But I, I do, I do... I, I guess the point is, I know you're busy as fuck, and I know sometimes I get very busy as fuck, but I think we only don't do this because of-

Joe Rogan 1:19 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 1:19 ... how busy we are.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah, that's all it is. I mean-

Kevin Smith 1:21 My fe-... And that's, that's very kind of you to say. You're like, "That's... Yes. Yeah, I'll buy that."

Joe Rogan 1:24 No, no, it's all it is for me, for sure.

Kevin Smith 1:26 But for me, I'm like... For me, I'm like, "Fuck, I could do that once a week," because I'd walk away... I always walk away with a real, like, uh, li-... I've never done cocaine, but I imagine it's what it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:35 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 1:35 ... to do a line of cocaine off, I don't know, somebody beautiful or something like that.

Narrator 1:39 (Gasps) Hmm.

Kevin Smith 1:39 I always walk away with wisdom, and it's wisdom that even though it's on a podcast and recorded and there's a record of, like, "Well, that's where you learned those things," I still go out into the world, present them as my own. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:49 That's for-

Kevin Smith 1:50 Like I'm a smart, well-read person.

Joe Rogan 1:51 Out there, there's dudes that have done a line of cocaine off someone, and they're like, "What the fuck is he talking... I've never learned anything from that."

Kevin Smith 1:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:57 It's not a, not of wisdom.

Kevin Smith 1:57 Except how to do it better, where the cocaine doesn't quite fall into the ass crack or something.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Except... Or where, "Where'd all my money go?"

Kevin Smith 2:03 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:03 Like, "I gotta, I gotta think that through."

Kevin Smith 2:04 That was never my poison, man.

Joe Rogan 2:05 No, yeah.

Kevin Smith 2:05 I never... I still have never in this lifetime done, uh, knowingly done cocaine. Somebody might've slipped it to me and I'm...

Joe Rogan 2:11 You and I both.

Kevin Smith 2:12 R- Really?

Joe Rogan 2:13 Yeah, I never touched it. But one time-

Kevin Smith 2:14 Come on, man. That's fucking...

Joe Rogan 2:15 My man, my man.

Kevin Smith 2:15 You know what I'm saying? Like...

Joe Rogan 2:16 In Hollywood, we're rare.

Kevin Smith 2:18 Yeah. And also just, like, as entertainers, we're rare as well.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 2:21 Does it ever make you feel less than when you read about-

Joe Rogan 2:25 No.

Kevin Smith 2:25 ... those of us who try to be funny in this business and those who have been insanely successful and become icons? They always have, you know, "And then they did blow-"

Joe Rogan 2:34 Yep, yep.

Kevin Smith 2:34 "... for hours and blah, blah, blah." Do you ever feel like, "Oh, that's not part of my matrix, hence I must not be one of the greats"?

Joe Rogan 2:42 No, I'm very lucky that I don't. But-

Kevin Smith 2:44 That you don't feel that?

Joe Rogan 2:45 That I don't feel that.

Kevin Smith 2:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Because I think I'd have a real problem with speed and amphetamines and coke. I think I'd have a real problem with it. I think I-

Kevin Smith 2:50 That's what draws your eye, like from a distance?

Joe Rogan 2:52 I think I would enjoy it.

Kevin Smith 2:52 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:52 I think I'd enjoy it. Um, and I think it's the worst thing for someone like me who's a probably overconfident person to begin with.

Kevin Smith 3:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:01 You know, which has served me well. But, (laughs) but, um, that stuff makes you crazy overconfident.

Kevin Smith 3:06 You see, I only giggle overconfident. I only giggle not because, uh... It's, it's not facetious. It's if you walked into the facility that I just walked into and had the grand tour that you were given, uh, gentle listener and watcher at home, uh, I was, I was saying to Joe before we went, like, he's got this new pl-... New to me. I don't know how long you've been here. Since October you said.

Joe Rogan 3:23 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 3:23 But it's li-... It's a paradise. It's a, you know, the... Fuck the term man cave. This is like man empire.

Joe Rogan 3:30 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 3:30 You walk in and it's just... It's like walking into Joe's head. It's everything he loves under one fucking roof. And I said it to him before, uh, like, "You did this with your mouth. Like, you talked yourself into this."

Joe Rogan 3:43 It's very strange.

Kevin Smith 3:44 Isn't that awesome?

Joe Rogan 3:45 Yeah. But-

Kevin Smith 3:45 I mean, I know you've gotten... You've got a, a zillion things that you do, but, like, even in a world of, like, the MMA stuff, that's still your mouth. It's always your fucking mouth that has taken you from where you started till now. You walk into this building, it's not like he had a family fortune and this was willed to him. Your mouth put you in a building this nice, painted the walls the color it is. You walk in, it's like a, a museum. It's like you see pieces of, of him, hence me, all over the fucking place. That's all out of your mouth. If anybody's watching or listening at home, teetering on the verge of like, "I wonder if I should do a podcast," send them a snapshot of that fucking room where you can launch bow and arrows for 45 yards. They'll start talking.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Well, y-... I think pe-... If you're interesting at all, you should do a podcast.

Kevin Smith 4:31 Fuck yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Like, it can be a, it can be a way to make a living. There's enough people. Like, this... I'm not a, one of those, um, famine thinkers. I think the opposite. I, I'm more like, "You could do it. Anybody could do it." I'm never like, "Man, it might not be enough for everybody."

Kevin Smith 4:44 I agree with that.

Joe Rogan 4:45 I'm never-

Kevin Smith 4:45 I'm always the guy who encourages it to, like-

Joe Rogan 4:47 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 4:47 ... "Hey, try it," because, oh, my God, it's fucking fun for me. And, uh, you know, we've been... We're rare birds in as much as we've been around since the fucking art form started. Like, y- you've been doing podcasts since a minute after podcasts began.

Joe Rogan 5:00 Carolla started first. He was the guy who-

Kevin Smith 5:02 All right. Well, I predate Carolla.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Yeah. Well, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Kevin Smith 5:05 But, uh, but so... But you're in the first five years?

Joe Rogan 5:08 That's right. You were... Well, what year w- did you start?

Kevin Smith 5:11 I started... We just celebrated. Last year was our 10th anniversary of Smodcast, so we're now year 11. So count back from now is-

Joe Rogan 5:18 Hmm.

Kevin Smith 5:18 ... 2007?

Joe Rogan 5:21 Yeah, that's a couple-

Kevin Smith 5:22 2007.

Joe Rogan 5:22 ... of years.

Kevin Smith 5:23 When did you begin?

Joe Rogan 5:23 I think 2009. I think it was December 2009.

Kevin Smith 5:26 All right. So two... Yeah, within two years of the, of the big bang. When I, when I w- jumped in, it was Leo Laporte doing This Week in Tech, and I think he still does that, and the Happy Tree Friends, and that was like the Apple podcast top five. And then me and Scott started with Smodcast, and then later on, we added a bunch of stuff. But getting in within the first two years, like, we happened, and then right on the heels of us-... Adam was on the radio and then the radio job went away. And Adam-

Joe Rogan 5:57 What, what year was that where Adam went to podcasting?

Kevin Smith 5:59 It gotta be 2000. If we started Smodcast 2007, I got ... It's either in ... We start February 2007. Either he loses the radio gig in 2007 and moves to podcasts or it happens in 2008.

Joe Rogan 6:11 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 6:11 But it was ...

Joe Rogan 6:12 It was in that neighborhood.

Kevin Smith 6:13 Yes. And he's, he was the, uh, the, the model for a lot of folks now, like Ralph Garman, the guy that I do Hollywood Babble under.

Joe Rogan 6:20 I love Ralph.

Kevin Smith 6:20 Ralph's amazing. He was let go by K-Rock earlier this year or later. Yeah, like at the end of last year, right before Christmas. And so he too moved into a kind of online world. Um, it, it, it can sustain a motherfucker if you got enough people who care about you.

Joe Rogan 6:34 He's a smart, talented guy.

Kevin Smith 6:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Ralph, Ralph's a very smart-

Kevin Smith 6:36 The Ralph Report is his show.

Joe Rogan 6:38 I like him a lot.

Kevin Smith 6:38 He's a good dude.

Joe Rogan 6:39 He's a very good dude.

Kevin Smith 6:40 But, um-

Joe Rogan 6:40 I've always liked talking to him at K-Rock.

Kevin Smith 6:42 When you, when you go to K-Rock.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 6:43 That's how our friendship began. You sit there doing the show, and then afterwards, like I was a cigarette smoker in those days, and we'd sit there out in the parking lot and smoke. And slowly, like I remember I came in once to K-Rock just to announce like, uh, "Hey, I've, I've rented a theater on Santa Monica Boulevard and we're calling it Smodcastle. And we're gonna ... We're the world's first live podcasting theater and we're gonna do podcasts there and stuff." And so Ralph was listening. He's right there. And then, uh, like months prior, he had approached me, he is like, "Hey man, would you ever wanna do like the Showbiz Beat?" That's what he used to do on K-Rock, on Kevin and Bean, like as a Saturday show. And I was like, "Fuck yeah, hear myself on the radio? That'd be fantastic." So we recorded a demo for the show, gave it to his bosses, and his bosses were like, "Nobody wants to listen to people talk on the radio anymore." And so it died there, just like how years ago things died when you couldn't get past a gatekeeper who was like, "We don't want your shit."

Joe Rogan 7:43 Was this after the talk radio station in LA went under?

Kevin Smith 7:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 7:47 Okay. So they probably were like-

Kevin Smith 7:49 Yes, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 7:49 ... they got burned on that. It didn't work.

Kevin Smith 7:51 And, and they were just like, you know, K-Rock was reading the tea leaves, which was like, people don't want to hear people chat, they just wanna play music.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Right.

Kevin Smith 7:58 We're competing with satellite radio.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Right.

Kevin Smith 7:59 Now we're competing with streaming music where it's like they don't have to wait 15 minutes to hear a song. And-

Joe Rogan 8:04 They had some good shows though, like Conway-

Kevin Smith 8:06 Tremendous.

Joe Rogan 8:06 ... Steckler. That was a really good show.

Kevin Smith 8:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:09 They were great. There's a bunch of really good shows.

Kevin Smith 8:12 But the, uh ... So he ... We had tried that, um, and it was called Showbiz Beat. And then months later when I was in there going like, "Yeah, I'm opening this podcast theater." Afterwards in the parking lot, grabbing the post-show smoke, Ralph was just like, "Hey, would you ever want to try that radio show at that theater?" And I was like, "F- fuck yeah, you wanna do it as a podcast?" And he was like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Yeah, let's try it out." And so I was driving home and I texted him at a light. I said, "We could call it Hollywood Babble on."

Joe Rogan 8:43 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 8:44 There's an old book called Hollywood Babylon that was about like gossipy stories about Hollywood people and stuff. But we spell it of course differently and stuff. And that was my ... That's what I brought to Babble on. Uh, other than that, Ralph built that entire thing. And then my job became to sit next to him and react to the news, which is, that's why I love that podcast so much 'cause as you can tell, I fucking love the sound of my own voice and I wind up talking, talking, talking. On Smodcast, I would lead on Jay and Silent Bob Get Old, which is really about Jason Mewes. I wound up, wind up talking a bunch. But with Babbleon, I get to sit there while he's the main act and I'm, you know, the second banana.

Joe Rogan 9:22 Right.

Kevin Smith 9:23 I ... It's, it's nice to be able to top and bottom in the world of podcasting. Like, you know, it, it, it gives you a place to go. If I, if I'm topping all the time, right, then I'm talking about my thoughts and what I believe in and these are the experiences I've had. And people are interested in that. But then sometimes you just wanna check out and talk about somebody else's shit. And on a podcast we do call Fat Man on Batman, that's what we do. I just sit around and go like, "Oh my god, did you watch the Avengers," and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 9:50 Right.

Kevin Smith 9:50 So you get to concentrate on that kind of stuff. So yeah, the Babbleon thing grew insanely organically. We started at that little theater, sat 48 people, and since he was on the radio every morning, he could just fucking sell it out. He'd be like, "Hey, uh, go to Kevin Smith's website and get tickets for Babbleon, it'd be sold out."

Joe Rogan 10:05 Is that your place on ... What was it in ... It was somewhere in, in West Hollywood, right? That little theater?

Kevin Smith 10:11 It was on, uh-

Joe Rogan 10:12 Melrose?

Kevin Smith 10:13 Yeah, it was on, uh, Santa Monica Boulevard in an area, uh, where they put up a few black box theaters. This e- this section's called The Complex. And we had one theater in The Complex and repainted it and hung up like all the artwork, like you got artwork based on the podcast out in the hallway. Same thing. We were like ... I essentially built a shrine to Scott Mosier, my co-host of-

Joe Rogan 10:35 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 10:35 ... of Smodcast, which I'm sure on some level creeped him the fuck out. First time he walked in was just like, "He wants to wear my skin."

Joe Rogan 10:41 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 10:42 You know? And so the idea was we're gonna do nothing but Smodcast here. But since Scott didn't suddenly go into like, "Yeah, let's do five podcasts a week," you know, it stayed pretty much the same. We had a theater with nothing going on in it and stuff. So I started trying other things. Babbleon became one of them. And Jay and Silent Bob Get Old also came out of that experience as well.

Joe Rogan 11:02 Do you still have that theater?

Kevin Smith 11:03 No, we let go of that. Me and Matty Cohen, who's a co-host on this very fun podcast he does with Macaulay Culkin. Have you spoken to fucking Macaulay Culkin yet?

Joe Rogan 11:11 No.

Kevin Smith 11:12 I'm just putting a b- uh, bug in your ear.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Yeah?

Kevin Smith 11:15 Oh fuck, dude. Fuck. He gives good talk.

Joe Rogan 11:19 Really?

Kevin Smith 11:19 Good oral. I mean, that sounds filthier than I meant it, but you know what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 11:22 Right.

Kevin Smith 11:22 Like as a guest-... fucking fascinating.

Joe Rogan 11:25 Really?

Kevin Smith 11:25 And funny and gifted.

Joe Rogan 11:27 Really?

Kevin Smith 11:27 Anyway, Matt and, and Macauley do a podcast called Bunny Ears. And so Matt, uh, Cohen was the guy that I'd opened Smodcastle with. Like, I was the guy going, "I wish I had a black box theater," and Matt went out and found it and stuff. So we kept it open for, like, one year and then let it go because what had happened was, like, the Babble Show sold so well so quickly all the time that it became clear, like, we could move this to a bigger theater. This is a thing. He was on the radio all the time, so it was easy to move seats. So we went up to the Lovett's. Remember the Jon Lovett's-

Joe Rogan 11:57 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 11:58 ... Comedy Club? Um, Ralph had went to the Improv, and Lovett's, and Lovett's were like, "You could have" 95 or "100% of the doors," something ridiculous. And, uh, and that was the only reason we went up there. We were there for a while. Things fell out with Lovett's and stuff, and then we moved to the Improv instead. So we've been there ever since. Um, and now we do it on the road, you know, quite a bit and stuff.

Joe Rogan 12:18 That Lovett's place was always weird, right? Because the people were way above your head.

Kevin Smith 12:21 It was like-

Joe Rogan 12:21 They were, like, one level here and one level way up there.

Kevin Smith 12:23 It was meant to be a... Well, it was B.B. King's originally-

Joe Rogan 12:26 Oh, that's right. That's right. The blues bar.

Kevin Smith 12:26 ... uh, back in the day. So it was like a jazz club where you wouldn't mind looking down at, at the act-

Joe Rogan 12:31 Right, right, at the music.

Kevin Smith 12:31 ... but for a podcast-

Joe Rogan 12:32 It's odd.

Kevin Smith 12:33 ... and with a, a guy with a fucking bald spot, it was nerve-wracking-

Joe Rogan 12:36 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 12:36 ... because, like-

Joe Rogan 12:36 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 12:36 ... how am I supposed to be funny knowing they're staring down at me judging my bald spot? Um-

Joe Rogan 12:41 Yeah, we did some comedy shows there, and it was great, but it was, it was odd because you ha- you did have to go straighten up-

Kevin Smith 12:45 It was a weird-shaped place.

Joe Rogan 12:46 ... and straighten up.

Kevin Smith 12:47 Let me-

Joe Rogan 12:48 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 12:48 ... um, just, uh, jump off-topic real quick. What were you... Was it the Times you were featured in for being, like, the, the source for news? What-

Joe Rogan 12:57 It's, it's this thing that these guys are d- they're, they're (laughs) they're calling something the intellectual dark web.

Kevin Smith 13:03 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:04 And they've connected a bunch of people together that are interesting people that don't follow-

Kevin Smith 13:10 Poor-

Joe Rogan 13:11 ... the standard-

Kevin Smith 13:11 Poor name. Bad marketing. 'Cause when I read it I was like, "I don't think of him as dark web at all."

Joe Rogan 13:16 No.

Kevin Smith 13:16 I think of dark web-

Joe Rogan 13:18 It's... My friend-

Kevin Smith 13:18 ... I think of murder and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 13:18 ... Eric Weinstein, he loves that sneaky-

Kevin Smith 13:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:22 ... cloak and dagger-type stuff. He came up with the name of it. I... He just gets a kick out of it, I think. But it's-

Kevin Smith 13:26 But the, essentially the piece was about how you are doing media that the, quote-unquote, "real media" is not doing. Like, you get talked-

Joe Rogan 13:34 Well, it's really more about the rise of, like, certain intellectuals that are very controversial, like Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris and all the debate about 'em. I'm just someone who they get a chance to talk to for three hours-

Kevin Smith 13:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:46 ... you know, in a pretty, uh, well, um, (clicks tongue) well subscribed-to base. There's a lot of people that are gonna listen to these conversations, and they get... They go, "Well, why haven't, why haven't I heard people talk like this before?"

Kevin Smith 13:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:58 "Why haven't I heard about the idea of determinism versus free will? Why ha- you know, why haven't I heard, like, uh-"

Kevin Smith 14:04 Last time we, we were here, we talked about wh- the universal monetary, uh, the... Everybody starts with a salary.

Joe Rogan 14:11 Yeah, universal basis, basic income.

Kevin Smith 14:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:13 I was, like, super hesitant about that. I was like, "That's nonsense." And then, um, the more I thought about it, I by... Whenever I just, like, immediately dismiss something, I always have to go, "Okay, why, why am I immediately dismissing it?" Like, what's-

Kevin Smith 14:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:26 ... what's, what, why did I go, "Ah." And then I said, "Ah, that's fucking people. They're just lazy. They just want money," and then I went, "All right. Is that tr- true? Let me see what the fuck's really going on." 'Cause there's a weird reaction that I had, like another reaction-

Kevin Smith 14:39 That is the, the-

Joe Rogan 14:39 ... against lazy people.

Kevin Smith 14:40 The unexamined life is not worth living.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 14:42 So it's easy enough for you to be like, "Nah, I don't care," but most people end it there, and their story goes in a different direction. You're like, "Wait, why don't I care?"

Joe Rogan 14:49 I didn't have a clear defense of my actions-

Kevin Smith 14:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:52 ... the way I thought. Not, you know, I didn't do anything, but the way I considered this subject. I didn't have, I didn't have a real ba... I, I was very, uh, knee-jerk. So I said, "Okay, let me really examine this."

Kevin Smith 15:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:05 And what... The real issue, I think, is going to be automation and artificial intelligence. I think it's going to remove a tremendous amount of jobs. I think automation in terms of, uh, car driving and, uh, d- different, just different functions once they get better at robotics and being able to do thing... And then people will be less and less necessary.

Kevin Smith 15:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:29 And they, they have a real problem, they think, with cars. With the number of males that drive cars, it's, uh, in the millions for a job, and that they would all, like, almost instantly be out of work if they ever get these automated cars down, you know, where everybody-

Kevin Smith 15:45 Do they... I mean, one, w- since we're a t- a culture that believes in technology-

Joe Rogan 15:50 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 15:50 ... one's inclined to believe, oh, they will get these self-driving vehicles down to a science.

Joe Rogan 15:56 I think they'll get it down. They're g- they're pretty damn close-

Kevin Smith 15:58 Close, but, like-

Joe Rogan 15:59 ... considering the fact that-

Kevin Smith 15:59 ... as, as soon as-

Joe Rogan 16:00 ... it didn't exist.

Kevin Smith 16:00 ... somebody gets hit-

Joe Rogan 16:02 Right.

Kevin Smith 16:02 ... they get set back couple hundred miles.

Joe Rogan 16:05 Well, there's been a few fatalities, right? Several. But how many have been fatalities because of humans? And I always say, "That's true, but how many more humans are driving than fucking robots?"

Kevin Smith 16:18 That's true.

Joe Rogan 16:18 I mean, that shit is off the charts. That number's-

Kevin Smith 16:21 And that-

Joe Rogan 16:21 ... gotta be bananas. Like, how many actual robots are out there driving? What do you got, 10? And two of 'em kill people?

Kevin Smith 16:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:26 Settle down.

Kevin Smith 16:27 But still-

Joe Rogan 16:28 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 16:28 ... if you, if you look at the numbers, though-

Joe Rogan 16:30 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 16:30 ... billions of people driving cars, only 10 robots, and they've already taken two lives. So that's pretty... It was a pretty... Those are bad odds right there.

Joe Rogan 16:38 They're gonna eat us, bro.

Kevin Smith 16:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:39 That's what's gonna happen.

Kevin Smith 16:40 It's, it's starting.

Joe Rogan 16:40 I really believe that. I've been talking about this a lot. There's a fucking robot that, um, uh, DARPA created, and it's called the EATR robot, E-A-T-R.

Kevin Smith 16:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:51 And it can fucking fuel itself with biological material.

Kevin Smith 16:58 Any, or is it programmed for certain biological material?

Joe Rogan 17:01 (sighs) I don't know, man. But biological-

Kevin Smith 17:03 So this is a computer that, A-

Joe Rogan 17:04 ... material means dead bodies.

Kevin Smith 17:05 No doubt.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Does-

Kevin Smith 17:06 But does that mean that, A, it's aware of when it's powering down?

Joe Rogan 17:09 Th- I don't know. Here's... Remember EATR, the military robot that's supposed to eat humans? This is the thing. It, I think the idea of biological material is maybe it could sustain itself on plants, maybe it could sustain itself-

Kevin Smith 17:21 That's where I go.

Joe Rogan 17:22 It's possible. It's possible.

Kevin Smith 17:24 But you want right to human remains?

Joe Rogan 17:25 It's also possible if you can use this thing in a battlefield that you would wanna have it eat people, 'cause you're gonna have dead people everywhere.... have this fucking robot monster that you're sending to kill people also eat them.

Kevin Smith 17:35 So not only is it killing people, but-

Joe Rogan 17:37 It's fueling itself with them.

Kevin Smith 17:38 ... it's also cleaning up in the background as well?

Joe Rogan 17:40 Dude, if-

Kevin Smith 17:40 Taking dead bodies away.

Joe Rogan 17:41 ... I was a diabolical scientist and I was gonna come up with the evilest, meanest shit-

Kevin Smith 17:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:46 ... to, to f- send to the enemy to go get 'em, it would be a robot that eats people.

Kevin Smith 17:51 (laughs) Why?

Joe Rogan 17:53 Because it's gonna kill people, right? It's gonna be sent there as a-

Kevin Smith 17:56 And then the, and then it's just like-

Joe Rogan 17:57 ... military machine. And it's fueling itself.

Kevin Smith 17:58 ... even though I have killed your loved one, watch in horror as I-

Joe Rogan 18:01 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 18:02 ... consume its flesh and power me further.

Joe Rogan 18:04 Fuel itself.

Kevin Smith 18:04 To kill you next.

Joe Rogan 18:06 And wouldn't we... I mean, if we did do that-

Kevin Smith 18:08 I defaulted to a pretty bad and, and kind of stereotypical, and one might even say racist, robot voice. I apologize for that.

Joe Rogan 18:13 What, if it was a race, what race would that be?

Kevin Smith 18:16 Monotone.

Joe Rogan 18:17 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 18:18 (laughs) I feel no love nor pain.

Joe Rogan 18:20 And they could make it look scary, too, man. They can make it look like Venom, like from, uh, the Star Wars books or, uh, the-

Kevin Smith 18:27 Spider-Man?

Joe Rogan 18:27 ... I mean, from Spider-Man books.

Kevin Smith 18:28 I don't know if that would be scary to people, but like, "Holy fuck, Venom's here. This rocks."

Joe Rogan 18:31 It would be pretty cool if you're a Venom fan.

Kevin Smith 18:33 It's Tom Hardy. It needs-

Joe Rogan 18:33 But I mean-

Kevin Smith 18:33 ... to look like-

Joe Rogan 18:34 That face, the giant face with the-

Kevin Smith 18:36 That just becomes unhinged?

Joe Rogan 18:37 ... the extra wide... Yeah. I mean, that, if that was in the eater robot and just inside all the grinders-

Kevin Smith 18:42 Would that scare you?

Joe Rogan 18:43 ... just blah.

Kevin Smith 18:43 Would that scare you more or would it scare you more if there were like, uh, the eater robot, its head is full of hypodermic needles, each one more toxic than the last and infectible at a moment's touch?

Joe Rogan 18:58 Whoa.

Kevin Smith 18:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:59 Those are terrible too.

Kevin Smith 19:01 You don't want to drown-

Joe Rogan 19:03 It's not a, it is not a good option there.

Kevin Smith 19:03 ... or do you want to get eaten by the sharks? Which is it?

Joe Rogan 19:05 Good question.

Kevin Smith 19:06 Have you spoken about Roseanne yet?

Joe Rogan 19:09 Um, not publicly. No.

Kevin Smith 19:11 Have you had private conversations enough to form some sort of thought process on it?

Joe Rogan 19:14 I did... I talked... Yeah. I talked to Ben Shapiro about it today on his show, but it won't be out until Sunday.

Kevin Smith 19:19 What is-

Joe Rogan 19:20 Um...

Kevin Smith 19:20 Do you... Have you ever encountered her in the world?

Joe Rogan 19:22 Yeah. I've en- I know Roseanne. Um, I talk to her on the phone and I believe every word she said. She told me that she was taking Ambien and that she was drunk on Memorial Day weekend and she tweeted a bunch of stupid shit and she's out of her fucking mind. And she said, you know, in her words, "I need to adjust my meds," you know, "I'm not thinking straight." And she was talking about how exhausted she got doing that television show and she got bronchitis and she was overworked. I think she's stressing the fuck out. She also told me that she did not know that that lady was even Black. She thought that lady was Jewish. And she said to me like, "Do you really think that I would make a joke about a Black lady and say Planet of the Apes? I wouldn't fucking do that." She's like, "I thought she was Jewish. Look at her." So I did look at her. Like pull up her Wikipedia page, this lady. She, um... I mean, she most cert- pull it up so we can see it. I mean, she most certainly could be African American, for sure, but she also most certainly could be like Hawaiian or Native American or-

Kevin Smith 20:30 Point being that-

Joe Rogan 20:31 ... Italian maybe. She thought Jewish. That's what Roseanne said, Jewish. This is what she said. I do not know. I don't think she's lying to me. Um, I don't think she's racist.

Kevin Smith 20:40 Have you ever taken Ambien?

Joe Rogan 20:41 But there is... No, I've never taken Ambien.

Kevin Smith 20:42 And have you ever-

Joe Rogan 20:43 But I talked to-

Kevin Smith 20:43 Did anybody here ever take Ambien?

Joe Rogan 20:44 ... a good friend of mine about it today.

Kevin Smith 20:46 Mm-mm. Okay.

Joe Rogan 20:46 And he got up in the middle of the night, cooked himself a meal, ate it, went to sleep, got up in the morning, and had no recollection of it. He had to be told that he did. He was trying to figure out who put the, put the plates in the sink, who ate this food, where did this food come from. He couldn't figure it out. He got up in the middle of the night, doesn't remember a thing-

Kevin Smith 21:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:06 ... and cooked himself a meal, sat down, ate it, went back to bed, has zero recollection of it.

Kevin Smith 21:11 I hate to be this guy-

Joe Rogan 21:12 And he said it scared the shit out of him.

Kevin Smith 21:13 ... but during that meal, at any point, did he get racist or anything like that?

Joe Rogan 21:17 (laughs) I wonder.

Kevin Smith 21:18 You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 21:19 See, if sh-

Kevin Smith 21:19 Like he's literally... Like it's one thing-

Joe Rogan 21:20 If she didn't really know-

Kevin Smith 21:21 ... it's a, it's a spooky story to be like, "I took Ambien and I made myself some food." It's an even spookier story to be like, "I took Ambien and I fucking killed somebody." But-

Joe Rogan 21:29 Do-

Kevin Smith 21:29 ... it's a, it's a stretch to be like-

Joe Rogan 21:31 It is.

Kevin Smith 21:32 ... "I took Ambien and I said something I would never say in a million years." It heartens me to hear you say that she said that she wasn't aware of the lady's race.

Joe Rogan 21:43 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 21:43 'Cause it... You know, I don't know her. All I know her from is, Roseanne, all I know her from is decades of watching her in media, like her TV show. I followed her before-

Joe Rogan 21:52 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 21:52 ... the TV show. Um, it didn't seem like the Roseanne that I've watched for 30, 40 years.

Joe Rogan 22:02 Well, see, that's the thing. I'm not close to her on a daily basis.

Kevin Smith 22:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:05 You know, I have tremendous respect for her as a comedian. Um, I think she's, she was a, a real pioneer in a lot of ways. She was this brash, like really confident lady who shit on stupid men. And she did it in this like really bold way in standup that was very unique for the time.

Kevin Smith 22:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:25 I think if people go back and you watch some of her early standup when she was coming out of Denver-

Kevin Smith 22:29 The Domestic Goddess stuff.

Joe Rogan 22:30 She was a beast, man. She was a beast. She was crushing.

Kevin Smith 22:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:34 She was crushing, you know? And then she got that sitcom and it's absolutely one of the greatest sitcoms of all time.

Kevin Smith 22:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:40 But now she's 65 years old and it's fucking hard for her. And that schedule, she was telling me, was absolutely brutal and that... They were killing her with all the work. Um, I don't know her very well.

Kevin Smith 22:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:53 But I do know there was another time where she said something about Susan Rice, who is, uh, another African American woman, and she, she said something about her and compared her-

Kevin Smith 23:05 Swinging balls.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Yeah, something like swinging ape balls. You know-

Kevin Smith 23:11 So that's two for two.

Joe Rogan 23:12 ... it's two, yeah. Well, this one for sure, right? 'Cause this one there's no excuse for.

Kevin Smith 23:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:17 'Cause this is one from the past that there was no, you know, like, "Oh my God, I was on Ambien. I tweeted this." No one said anything. "Susan Rice is a man with big swinging ape balls."

Kevin Smith 23:27 And that wasn't meant to be a compliment, I guess?

Joe Rogan 23:29 That's 2013. Okay, so that's a long-

Kevin Smith 23:32 So it's five years ago.

Joe Rogan 23:32 ... time ago. That's five years ago.

Kevin Smith 23:34 Oh, and you can... I mean, I don't know if it's still available, but you, you can go through her timeline and see a bunch of things that are-

Joe Rogan 23:40 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 23:40 ... are not like a comedian being funny, but-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Right.

Kevin Smith 23:44 ... you know, beliefs.

Joe Rogan 23:45 Right. That one is, um, that one's a rough one. That, to me, is a way rougher one-... it's way rougher. Like that one is like, that's what you said. I mean, it is what it is.

Kevin Smith 23:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:56 You know, if you said that the other lady looked like Planet of the Apes just because of her haircut, 'cause she looks like the- the lead woman in-

Kevin Smith 24:03 In Zera?

Joe Rogan 24:04 Yeah. She looked like Zera. There was like a photo of her back, it was just like the way her haircut was and her outfit was.

Kevin Smith 24:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:09 I think some people, you know, would... But if you didn't know that she was Black, it's a totally different thing.

Kevin Smith 24:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:16 Do we know that for sure? You know, only she knows for sure, you know? It's-

Kevin Smith 24:21 Were you surprised at how quickly it all ended?

Joe Rogan 24:26 Yeah. Well-

Kevin Smith 24:27 That- that was the part of the story that... Again, I've no skin in the game other than I watched the old Roseanne.

Joe Rogan 24:34 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 24:34 And I was enjoying the new Roseanne as well. But I came, uh, home from like... I was in Vegas the other day and I flew home yesterday morning. And then I had a meeting, uh, over at the studios like at noon. So I took a nap when I got home, like, and all of a sudden my wife wakes me up and she goes, "You- you got a meeting, don't forget. Like, it's 11:30. Oh, and Roseanne's been canceled." And I'm like, "That's- that's impossible."

Joe Rogan 24:57 (laughs) What?

Kevin Smith 24:57 Like, I was groggy, but I'm like, "That's impossible." Right. "It's like 20 million people are watching that show." And she said, uh, she tweeted something racist. So I fucking pick up my phone and I look at it and stuff. And by the time, like this had happened in the span of like the hour I took a fucking nap. They, the- the network acted so fucking incredibly fast. There was no prevarication, equivocation.

Joe Rogan 25:20 Oh, dude, they had that ax sharpened and ready. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 25:23 It was nuts. (laughs) Like all of a sudden they were just like-

Joe Rogan 25:25 Like a junk-

Kevin Smith 25:25 ... "We're done. We don't know her. Disavow."

Joe Rogan 25:28 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 25:28 And- and- and it was... I think it was so surprising because it's been a while since somebody did something even, uh, s- superficially, uh, um, moral.

Joe Rogan 25:41 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 25:41 You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 25:42 Right.

Kevin Smith 25:42 Like I- I've read a lot of articles online where people are like, "Hey man, ABC didn't own the show, so of course they fucking had, they didn't have as much skin in the game, so it was easy for them to cancel it. Would they have canceled it as fast if they owned the show and dot, dot, dot?" You can, you can make a bunch of kinda caveats, but at the end of the day, something bad happened and then the network reacted. A major com- fuck the network. A major company, a major corporation reacted-

Joe Rogan 26:05 Do you think what they did-

Kevin Smith 26:06 ... and- and acted.

Joe Rogan 26:06 ... is the right way to- to handle it, to just immediately cancel the show?

Kevin Smith 26:10 I personally would have maybe fired her and kept everybody else. Done like the, you know, Valerie.

Joe Rogan 26:16 Have her die off?

Kevin Smith 26:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:17 Or just use computer animation?

Kevin Smith 26:19 Oh, I, you could replace her with a Pixarish character, but I think you can tell equally compelling stories like without her.

Joe Rogan 26:26 Right.

Kevin Smith 26:26 Honestly, like the nine episodes that they've done this season, she really hasn't been the driving factor of the stories.

Joe Rogan 26:32 Right.

Kevin Smith 26:32 It's been more about Darlene. That's who I felt bad for when this whole thing imploded, 'cause I'm like, "She's, she put this show together, uh, uh, Sara Gilbert."

Joe Rogan 26:41 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 26:42 Uh, and she was like crushing on it. She was like really good. Showing off-

Joe Rogan 26:45 Right.

Kevin Smith 26:45 ... like what a great actress she is. But now everybody's at a job. I feel bad for John Goodman. I've worked with him before and he was wonderful on the show. Like-

Joe Rogan 26:51 Can- can Roseanne-

Kevin Smith 26:52 ... they could have sustained the show without her, I think.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Can she be forgiven?

Kevin Smith 26:57 Sure. I mean, can-

Joe Rogan 26:57 Kind of someone-

Kevin Smith 26:58 Didn't Mel Gibson get forgiven? Isn't he working again?

Joe Rogan 27:00 Yeah. Well, Mel Gibson, it was also a case of him being intoxicated, right? He was yelling some antisemitic stuff at a cop and he was drunk.

Kevin Smith 27:07 Well, I mean, nevermind that.

Joe Rogan 27:08 Allegedly.

Kevin Smith 27:08 Didn't he also punch his ex-wife? Like-

Joe Rogan 27:10 He definitely did something back then. It's-

Kevin Smith 27:11 It was a more violent action than him just going, saying, "Hey, sugar tits." Like there was some... His wife had recorded him or the woman-

Joe Rogan 27:18 She recou- recorded him yelling at her on the phone.

Kevin Smith 27:20 Right. So we, nobody knows if he truly hit her?

Joe Rogan 27:22 I don't know.

Kevin Smith 27:23 All right. My bad. I thought that was part of the story.

Joe Rogan 27:24 I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the, even the specifics of any accusations.

Kevin Smith 27:28 Yeah. And also, I also didn't follow it that closely and not because I'm like, "Man, that's Martin Riggs and I don't wanna hear-

Joe Rogan 27:34 Right.

Kevin Smith 27:34 ... nothing bad about him." I just didn't follow it 'cause I'm like, "Ugh."

Joe Rogan 27:37 Um, yeah, man. It's, it's-

Kevin Smith 27:40 Can she be forgiven?

Joe Rogan 27:41 It's very, very unfortunate.

Kevin Smith 27:42 Can she be forgiven? I- I don't know. I mean, look, she should have tweeted what you said instead of, uh, "Oh my God, I took Ambien."

Joe Rogan 27:51 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 27:51 Like, you know, that turned into an opportunity for a major pharmaceutical company to like put out one of the best zingers Twitter's ever seen.

Joe Rogan 27:59 Pretty good zinger.

Kevin Smith 27:59 Yeah. I mean, like this is a company, they're not normally used to like, "Hey, what should we say to be funny?"

Joe Rogan 28:04 Right.

Kevin Smith 28:04 Like, they have to put out very staid information. And for once they were like, "How about this, guys? We say racism isn't a, you know, a byproduct of our drug."

Joe Rogan 28:12 This was really well said.

Kevin Smith 28:13 It was. It was a funny-

Joe Rogan 28:14 This was well worded. Let me just-

Kevin Smith 28:15 You sit there and go like, "Why didn't I tweet that?"

Joe Rogan 28:17 Whoever wrote it, it was pretty, whoever wrote it rather, is pretty slick. Um, the thing Ambien does do though-

Kevin Smith 28:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:23 ... it definitely makes you act bizarre. You- you- you, there's- there's some people-

Kevin Smith 28:27 It is the sleeping, right?

Joe Rogan 28:28 ... it's one of those side effects.

Kevin Smith 28:28 This is the one that's supposed to make you go asleep.

Joe Rogan 28:30 Yes. I mean, if you just, there's, uh, there's websites dedicated-

Kevin Smith 28:34 Can't people just smoke weed, eat edibles?

Joe Rogan 28:35 That would help.

Kevin Smith 28:36 Right?

Joe Rogan 28:36 There's websites dedicated to people that have had crazy experiences on that stuff.

Kevin Smith 28:40 I've seen a few of those stories.

Joe Rogan 28:41 And it's not-

Kevin Smith 28:41 The one that you told me about your friend cooking dinner-

Joe Rogan 28:43 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 28:44 ... is about the fourth time somebody's communicated that story.

Joe Rogan 28:46 People drive cars.

Kevin Smith 28:47 Now, could have been 'cause they've been listening to your show and you may have so- said that story before.

Joe Rogan 28:50 I probably have. Uh, people drive cars on it. They go places. They don't know-

Kevin Smith 28:54 Without realizing that they're-

Joe Rogan 28:55 Yeah. They don't know what they're doing. They get places. These people-

Kevin Smith 28:56 It's like the serpent and the rainbow, man. You become zombified and you're like, "I'm not dead."

Joe Rogan 29:00 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 29:00 You're Bill Pullman in a fucking casket.

Joe Rogan 29:02 Well, there was a, there was a guy that got pulled over a few years back who was famous, and I forget what, he said something about like, "I gotta get to the dance." Or something like that. And the cops were like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" And they realized like he was kind of out of it. And then after it was over, it was revealed that he had been on Ambien and that he had gotten in his car and really had no idea what the fuck-

Kevin Smith 29:23 No, he didn't even know he was talking to cops.

Joe Rogan 29:23 ... he was, when the cops were pulling him over, like literally the guy was in a dream. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 29:27 It reminds me of when I was a kid.

Joe Rogan 29:28 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 29:29 This was not- not drug related, but I was a kid, I was sleeping, I fell asleep on the couch watching TV. And before my, like my brother had lost his fucking wallet at a school dance and my mother was like, "I'll drive you up there and try to find it." And my father would get up for work at about 9:00 at night and then head to work at 10:00. And I think he started work at 11:00 at night. He worked at the post office canceling fucking stamps. Um, so he g- I- I, my- my mom tells me that and I fall asleep on the couch watching like fucking Dynasty or some such shit. It was the '80s. And then my dad wakes me up 'cause he woke up and nobody was home. Like my mom wasn't around, nobody was there.... and he's like, uh, "Where is everybody?" And he fucking startled me awake, so I was like, "What? Oh, Donald, Donald, they had to go to the school 'cause Donald lost his Thriller." And then my father goes, "What?" And I was like, "Donald lost his Thriller." And he was like, "I don't know what you're saying." And I was like, "But Do- Mom said that Donald lost his Thriller." And I kept replacing the word wallet with fucking Thriller, and my father-

Joe Rogan 30:26 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 30:26 ... looked at me and, and literally set me aside the next day to be like, "Are you using drugs?" And I was like, "No, I just... Y- you woke me up." I, I, I guess I was in some sort of... Maybe I was dreaming about fucking Thriller. It was 1982, you know? Like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:38 Yeah, your brain just never clicked back over into waking life.

Kevin Smith 30:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:41 It just stayed in this weird zombie land.

Kevin Smith 30:43 Where, where wallet meant Thriller-

Joe Rogan 30:44 Did you find that, uh...

Kevin Smith 30:46 ... and Thriller meant wallet?

Joe Rogan 30:46 No?

Kevin Smith 30:47 I'm trying to figure out... What were we looking for?

Joe Rogan 30:48 Dude got pulled over, and I'm trying to remember what he told the cops where they realized that something was going on. I think it was, it was in one of the articles that I tweeted. The story was in one of the articles that I tweeted. Um...

Kevin Smith 30:59 What happens in that instance? You get in trouble?

Joe Rogan 31:01 I don't know. Here's the, but here's the thing that I should say, for people-

Kevin Smith 31:02 Like, can they, can they arrest you for being the Ambien driver?

Joe Rogan 31:05 It's a... This is, it's a rare reaction 'cause a lot of people take that shit.

Kevin Smith 31:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:09 You know, a lot of people-

Kevin Smith 31:10 And you don't hear this story all the time.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Right. There's, there's-

Kevin Smith 31:12 There's not, there's not a web page-

Joe Rogan 31:13 They're not selling just a couple of those pills a day.

Kevin Smith 31:15 Right, and there's no web page-

Joe Rogan 31:17 They're selling millions of them.

Kevin Smith 31:17 ... devoted to stories of people who took Ambien and, and got fired for being racist.

Joe Rogan 31:21 Right. Well, even better, there's no stories of people that took Ambien and, uh, you know, became, uh, addicted to it and became some sort of a... Or is there? Is it addictive? Is Ambien addictive?

Kevin Smith 31:36 I would say probably.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Yeah, I would say probably, yeah. I think that, like, getting addicted to falling asleep, or needing it to fall asleep, probably, yeah.

Kevin Smith 31:41 Yeah, I guess if you're somebody who was like, "I can't go to sleep without that."

Joe Rogan 31:44 Well, yeah, I wonder if it's addictive like maybe like a heroin is addictive? No, right? Or like a speed, you know, like people get like physically addicted to things.

Kevin Smith 31:51 Where it kind of changes the receptors on, on your-

Joe Rogan 31:55 You need it. Yeah.

Kevin Smith 31:55 Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it dulls the senses to the point where, like when you... I mean, that's what, the way I... heroin was always explained to me was when you're on heroin the senses are, get dulled. The nerve receptors like just don't take in as much. But when you're not on heroin, that pain of withdrawal, part of it is the receptors coming back to life all at once.

Joe Rogan 32:20 Wow.

Kevin Smith 32:20 And it was, it likened-

Joe Rogan 32:21 Really?

Kevin Smith 32:21 Yeah, Jason, Jason Muse long time ago-

Joe Rogan 32:24 Right.

Kevin Smith 32:24 ... I have problems with that shit. So, it was one of the rehab doctors communicated it thusly. He said, "You know how when you sit on your hand and it fucking falls asleep?" I'm like, "Yeah, totally." He's like, "Imagine that was your whole body and times it by a million. That's what he's going through."

Joe Rogan 32:37 Whoa.

Kevin Smith 32:38 And I was like, "Oh." And then I, you know, 'cause up till then I was always like, "Just fucking stop doing heroin. Just stop it."

Joe Rogan 32:43 Right.

Kevin Smith 32:43 And then meanwhile I was eating a lot of sugar. "Just stop doing your drug."

Joe Rogan 32:46 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 32:47 And eating my fucking drug. But, uh, once that dude explained it that way, I was like, "Oh, that would be, that would be fucking painful." No wonder the kid doesn't want to get off heroin, because he's like, "I know the path to not being on heroin is full of pins and needles."

Joe Rogan 33:02 Oof.

Kevin Smith 33:03 But you never die from it. That's the good thing about that, like you don't die from heroin withdrawal. Uh, we know from, uh, Amy Winehouse and other cases that you can die from alcohol withdrawal.

Joe Rogan 33:14 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 33:14 Like you can, you can get off... Like when you're in jail and you're kicking heroin, you know, the cops just be like, uh, you know, "Here, just keep throwing up and pissing." But if you're kicking booze they have to give you booze 'cause your heart could stop. What are we looking at?

Joe Rogan 33:27 Look at this fucking article he pulled up. An estimated 446,000 people in the United States were current misusers of Ambien. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 33:37 No, what does a misuser mean?

Joe Rogan 33:39 Dangerous dependency onto Ambien can develop after just two weeks of use. Don't attempt to quit without proper knowledge and before putting a medical treatment plan into place.

Kevin Smith 33:49 Wow. Two weeks is all it takes?

Joe Rogan 33:52 Two weeks, and you're gone-zille, son.

Kevin Smith 33:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:54 Maybe, maybe not.

Kevin Smith 33:55 So you're driving around-

Joe Rogan 33:56 Maybe you're fine and-

Kevin Smith 33:56 ... having conversations with the cop.

Joe Rogan 33:57 Maybe you're one of those guys that uses Ambien and gets a good night's sleep and, you know, and has a-

Kevin Smith 34:01 Or the worst that happens-

Joe Rogan 34:02 ... better performance at the job in the morning.

Kevin Smith 34:04 You, you kind of, where you're like, you just lose a word. Like you're like, "Donald lost his Thriller," and that's the lowest-

Joe Rogan 34:09 Right.

Kevin Smith 34:09 ... mildest form of your Ambien.

Joe Rogan 34:10 Yeah, just every now and then you skip a word.

Kevin Smith 34:12 (laughs) Which I do now.

Joe Rogan 34:13 That would be fine.

Kevin Smith 34:13 I call that hitting a pothole.

Joe Rogan 34:16 You s- You know, Roseanne is... She's an older lady. She's in her 60s, and you know, she's had some mental problems and, uh, and she's drinking and she's taking that stuff to go to sleep. And, uh, and she's not taking it for just two weeks. She's taking it f- a lot, you know? And she says she needs it to go to sleep, and I think there's a lot of people that feel like they need something to help them go to sleep-

Kevin Smith 34:38 That's fine, but then don't tweet.

Joe Rogan 34:39 And for many people I think it fucking works. Yeah, I don't think she-

Kevin Smith 34:41 That's... At the end of the day it's not like-

Joe Rogan 34:43 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 34:43 ... "She took Ambien and that makes her bad." Like, no, it's that she fucking tweeted-

Joe Rogan 34:47 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 34:47 ... what she did.

Joe Rogan 34:47 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 34:47 And it's like, if you think for a second that if in using this drug, which I need to go to sleep because I'm a late 60s woman-

Joe Rogan 34:55 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 34:55 ... and I need my rest or whatever, um, or you just deserve fucking sleep, like, y- you know. I've... Mercifully I've never suffered from a lack of sleep, but I know people who have and it's fucking mind-bending and stuff. But if you know you have to do that, and you know there's the slightest chance that you could become somebody else or say things that are not in your character, give up your fucking social media, man. Like don't-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Yeah, I don't think she probably realized-

Kevin Smith 35:20 Be that person.

Joe Rogan 35:20 ... that she was obviously gonna do that. I think she tweeted ridiculous shit in the past before and it flew under the radar and nobody cared.

Kevin Smith 35:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:27 But it's, it's a racism thing, you know? And what's in- what's fascinating to me about it and what's positive to me about it is that we have, our culture has like a fucking zero tolerance for racism now.

Kevin Smith 35:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:39 It's... Things have tightened up so much. Like it's entirely possible that within a few decades, like racism can be almost completely eradicated. I think it's possible. With the spread of the internet, we're going into like 50 years from now, 60 years from now. Racism could be seen as the ridiculous idea that it is.

Kevin Smith 36:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:01 Racism could be seen the way s- someone like you, Du- looks at it, or someone like Jamie, or-

Kevin Smith 36:05 It'll be like a Roddenberry world. It'll be like Star Trek-

Joe Rogan 36:08 People will just be evil.

Kevin Smith 36:08 ... where people are like, "Maybe back in the day there was something like that, but we haven't experienced that in centuries."

Joe Rogan 36:13 Yeah, the, the distrust and, and hate for specific gigantic general groups of people, like Asians or Blacks or whatever, and the disparaging ideas that you have about a race-... just because they're- you know, just because a person's from a specific part of the world. That shit has gotta be a thing of the past. We gotta get past that because-

Kevin Smith 36:35 I think, I th- I would love to believe that, but unfortunately-

Joe Rogan 36:37 I think it's possible.

Kevin Smith 36:37 ... we live in a bubble out here, where-

Joe Rogan 36:39 We do live in a bubble-

Kevin Smith 36:40 ... California is a place-

Joe Rogan 36:41 ... but I think the bubble's spreading.

Kevin Smith 36:41 ... that actually does kind of work. It, it, you know, at ... I'm not s- I'm, believe me, if there are people out there about to, like, judge the fact that he's, he's fucking selling California, "California blows." The one, I'm not saying, like, "Yay, California, fuck the rest of the world," or "Fuck the rest of the country," but I will say this: Everyone here lives fairly multiculturally and-

Joe Rogan 37:00 Right.

Kevin Smith 37:00 ... and there doesn't seem to be- I mean, granted we're in this area, the, of the state, perhaps it's different elsewhere, but it, it feels, I'm not gonna say utopian, but it feels like people get along out here. Even if it's a plastic get along-

Joe Rogan 37:14 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 37:14 ... it's still the-

Joe Rogan 37:15 They get along pretty good.

Kevin Smith 37:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:17 Um-

Kevin Smith 37:18 So much so that I think a lot of people in the state were, that's, you know, were mystified when the election went the way it did because they were like, "What? No." Th- Because that's not the way life works. Well, it's not the way life works in most of California, but I think outside of here it's different.

Joe Rogan 37:31 Well, the election went the way it went for a bunch of reasons. You know, a lot of the middle of the country didn't feel represented.

Kevin Smith 37:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:36 They have a significant say when it comes to, um, you know, the, um, what's it called? Electoral college vote. That's, uh, that's, uh, when we get squirrelly, when you look at, like, the points that different states are worth, like they're wor- like it's, it's very weird that we still have that. It's not a person, one person, one vote. Not even one person, one vote.

Kevin Smith 37:58 No.

Joe Rogan 37:58 It's like these weird fucking spots-

Kevin Smith 38:01 And, and why isn't it one-

Joe Rogan 38:02 ... like Iowa.

Kevin Smith 38:02 ... person, one vote? Like this was explained to me in high school why the electoral college was necessary and even then I was like, "Yeah, but-"

Joe Rogan 38:10 Well-

Kevin Smith 38:10 "... one person, one vote kind of makes more sense, no?"

Joe Rogan 38:13 Both you and I know jack shit about politics.

Kevin Smith 38:16 This is true.

Joe Rogan 38:17 So this makes this, uh, this journey of words-

Kevin Smith 38:18 Some were people-

Joe Rogan 38:19 ... very difficult. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 38:20 ... they're, they're bleeding from their ears going-

Joe Rogan 38:21 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 38:21 ... "Fucking idiots."

Joe Rogan 38:23 But the checks and balances that are in play, like the representative government, is what keeps someone from just, like, running through the whole thing. And we would get a little bit of a test to it by, like, Trump. You know?

Kevin Smith 38:32 I met a buddy of yours on a plane.

Joe Rogan 38:34 What guy? Oh, yeah, my friend, uh, Aaron.

Kevin Smith 38:35 The bear, the bear guy.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 38:36 Nice guy. But here's what I wanted to pass on. S- like, we were on a 45-minute flight maybe.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Right.

Kevin Smith 38:46 Super smooth. Like, and, and not in the way of, like, "Hello, I'm Lando Calrissian." But this dude had a thing, like, uh, like, a repartee, and not like he wasn't, like, having sex with somebody, but he had a, a repartee going with the flight attendant that was so effortless. And, you know, I was sitting next to him and we chitchatted before the flight and I'd, I'd mentioned something about fucking Joe Rogan. He goes, "I've, I know Joe Rogan," and he talked about, like, hunting and blah, blah, blah. But in any event, for the rest of the flight I had like a front row seat for him talking to the flight attendant.

Joe Rogan 39:19 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 39:21 And it was, like it was a real clinic in, like, "Oh." Like, he's got that thing that, like, I, I've had to make up for not having my whole life by being, like-

Joe Rogan 39:32 He knows how to talk to people?

Kevin Smith 39:33 He- well not even just talk to people, like, he, like, the way, like, you watch, like, a fucking movie star say two things and th- people are like, "Oh, you." You're like, he just had this person in the palm of his hand.

Joe Rogan 39:47 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 39:47 And I'm being very careful because I don't want it to seem like, like he was making the moves on her. He w- he wasn't, but he easily could have been with that person by the flight's end.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Whoa.

Kevin Smith 39:58 And it was just, as I sat there watching it going, like, "I've had to make up for a deficit my whole life to be like, 'Here. Here's some funny things,' and 'Hey, I saw Star Wars' and talk about all this other shit" to try to trick somebody into fucking me. This guy just, like, sits down on the plane and was like, "What's up?" And she was like, "Oh, you," and instantly started going, talking to him, and I was trying to discern throughout the whole flight, did they know each other? Does he see her on this flight often or something? No. Dry. He hit that flight as dry as anybody else and literally could have walked away w- hand-in-hand with somebody. It was very impressive.

Joe Rogan 40:31 He's got bow hunter confidence.

Kevin Smith 40:32 Is that what it is?

Joe Rogan 40:33 Yeah. That's what it is.

Kevin Smith 40:34 It's gotta be.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 40:35 It's the same thing you experience.

Joe Rogan 40:36 He's not- he's not even a regular bow hunter, he's like a super advanced bow hunter where a compound bow was too easy for him-

Kevin Smith 40:41 He said that. Well, he didn't say it like that.

Joe Rogan 40:42 ... so he switched over to a recurve bow-

Kevin Smith 40:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 40:44 ... so he has to get closer to animals-

Kevin Smith 40:46 He was-

Joe Rogan 40:46 ... and he has to practice more.

Kevin Smith 40:47 He was explaining that.

Joe Rogan 40:48 My friend, Aaron Snyder. He's a little bit crazy.

Kevin Smith 40:50 Without even-

Joe Rogan 40:51 In a good way.

Kevin Smith 40:51 He was explaining that and it didn't sound braggy. Like-

Joe Rogan 40:54 Well, he's got a really good podcast. It's a podcast-

Kevin Smith 40:56 He said that. He said he has a podcast-

Joe Rogan 40:57 ... called Kifaru Cast.

Kevin Smith 40:57 What's it called?

Joe Rogan 40:58 Kifaru. K-I-F-A-R-U. It's a, it's a company that he works for that makes really high-end hunting and hiking backpacks and military backpacks and, uh, he does a podcast through them. And he's def- he's very good at it. He's very good at talking. He's just-

Kevin Smith 41:13 I-

Joe Rogan 41:13 He's a funny dude.

Kevin Smith 41:14 I can fucking attest to it.

Joe Rogan 41:15 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 41:15 I sat there and watched him be very good at it.

Joe Rogan 41:17 But he's got that bow hunter confidence.

Kevin Smith 41:19 Is that what it is?

Joe Rogan 41:19 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, he's been-

Kevin Smith 41:20 It's not a swagger.

Joe Rogan 41:21 ... bow hunting like his whole life.

Kevin Smith 41:22 Like, there was nothing about him that instantly-

Joe Rogan 41:24 He's not a bad guy.

Kevin Smith 41:24 I mean, he was definitely very macho-

Joe Rogan 41:26 No, not like a Dickie.

Kevin Smith 41:26 ... but there was nothing about his thing that was like, "I'm a guy's guy."

Joe Rogan 41:31 Right.

Kevin Smith 41:31 It wasn't even that. Like honestly, that flight attendant probably could have been a guy and if Aaron was just as interested in-

Joe Rogan 41:36 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 41:36 ... short ro- short-range bow hunting, he would have landed that guy as well. Like, he was very ... I don't know. It was good. Like when he said, "I do a podcast too," it made sense. I was like, "I bet you do."

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yeah. Smart dude. It's a, that's a, a weird way to live. You know, he spends like 200 nights a year in the forest sleeping in like either a bivy sack or a tent or under-

Kevin Smith 41:59 Like Robin Hood.

Joe Rogan 41:59 ... a tarp.

Kevin Smith 42:00 Like fucking, just like Robin Hood.

Joe Rogan 42:01 He's out there all the time, man. It's like, there's not a whole lot of people that are doing that, but it-

Kevin Smith 42:07 More woods than man.

Joe Rogan 42:08 He's another guy who's ex-military too. It's a lot of these ex-military guys that get really into bow hunting because they find it very difficult and a physical challenge and it's nerve-racking and it's hard to keep your cool under pressure, and for a lot of guys who, um, they go from the military and maybe do a few tours overseas and come back to, uh, the mainland and just have a real issue with being just not stimulated enough and you feel detached and you don't feel like you're involved in anything that's got, like, a high a- adrenaline threshold. And for a lot of these guys, bow hunting is very therapeutic.

Kevin Smith 42:44 The- so is that an issue when people come back-... uh, the, the issue I always hear about, of course, is PTSD.

Joe Rogan 42:51 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 42:51 But that sounds like the opposite, like somebody who's, like, "I was there for the rush and now the real world offers..." Like, that's that mo- Hurt Locker.

Joe Rogan 42:58 Not even necessarily that they were... Yeah, that Hurt, like, like, like Hurt Rock- Locker.

Kevin Smith 43:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:01 Not, not even necessarily that they're there for the rush, but that once they experience that rush, you know, um... God, I'm bringing this book up too much, but Sebastian Junger wrote a book called Tribe, and it's all about this. And it's about these guys coming back from war and trying to just sort of assimilate and having a really difficult time. And how so many of them talk about when they were over there, they had a purpose, and that life was intensified and cranked up to 10, and the highs were the highest and the lows were the lowest-

Kevin Smith 43:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:31 ... and they come back here and everything's just too flat. It's just really hard for them to adjust and they feel disconnected from their community and they, they long to go back. And that's why a lot of them keep signing up and going back and they, they feel that that life at the tip of the spear is actually more, more satisfying, more rewarding. It just feels right for them. In the regular world, just for whatever reason, they've just tasted it or they've, they've adjusted to it, but they're, they have a very, very difficult time some of them do, adjusting.

Kevin Smith 44:00 What was the closest you've ever felt to that? Like, have you ever gotten close to the feeling of, like, uh... What have you done in life that has given you the adrenaline high? What's your highest adrenaline rush, I guess I'm asking?

Joe Rogan 44:14 The, probably the most nervous I ever got was when I was fighting, when I was doing martial arts.

Kevin Smith 44:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:18 'Cause there was a nervous for a good reason. It's like, you might get fucked up. It's really possible you might get kicked in the head. But, um, the second most nervous was before I did standup for the first time. I was shitting my pants, man. I was really fucking nervous.

Kevin Smith 44:32 Why?

Joe Rogan 44:33 I don't know. I don't know. I didn't-

Kevin Smith 44:35 Were you living room funny? Like, were you high school funny?

Joe Rogan 44:38 Not... I was locker room funny. I was, uh... I would make my friends laugh in the locker room. That was... That's... I got talked into it by a good buddy of mine, my friend Steve Graham-

Kevin Smith 44:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:47 ... who I'm still good friends with. He talked me into it. Him and my friend, Ed Shorter. They just... They talked me into it. I would make them laugh.

Kevin Smith 44:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:54 You know? And... But I thought that they were laughing because they were my friends and I thought, like, "Everybody else is gonna think I'm an asshole."

Kevin Smith 44:59 Oh, you thought, like, "They're just being polite."

Joe Rogan 45:01 Well, it's all... That too, and, like, my sense of humor was fucked up because it was all fighters, you know? And so everybody was, like... They were hard men.

Kevin Smith 45:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:10 So you had to have, like, a certain sting to your gallows humor.

Kevin Smith 45:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:14 While everybody was on their way to go kick people in the head. It was just a, a weird life, you know? It was a very, very strange way to be 15.

Kevin Smith 45:22 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 45:23 And, you know, have 15, 16, 17. That was like my whole life til I was 21.

Kevin Smith 45:26 So wait, that wasn't the adrenaline rush?

Joe Rogan 45:29 The adrenaline brush of doing standup was unexpected. That's why it freaked me out, because I didn't think I was gonna be so nervous and I was shitting my pants. I just didn't have a background in performing. And right before I was going up there, I was thinking of all the times that I, I fought and I should be comfortable doing this.

Kevin Smith 45:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:43 But I was fucking shitting my pants (laughs) . I was so terrible. Oh, I was so... I was so terrified.

Kevin Smith 45:49 Where was it?

Joe Rogan 45:49 It was in Boston at a place called Stitches.

Kevin Smith 45:52 Are they still there?

Joe Rogan 45:52 August 27th, 1988. No, no, they're not still there.

Kevin Smith 45:55 Oh, fuck! You know the date?

Joe Rogan 45:56 Yeah, for sure.

Kevin Smith 45:56 Ah, you're gonna make me cry. That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Ah.

Kevin Smith 45:58 Why do you remember that?

Joe Rogan 45:59 I don't know. I always remembered it.

Kevin Smith 46:00 Say it again.

Joe Rogan 46:01 August 27th, 1988.

Kevin Smith 46:03 Okay, so naturally, everything I hear, I have to put through a filter of, "How does this affect me?"

Joe Rogan 46:07 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 46:07 So I'm sitting there going, "What was I doing August 27th, 1988?" I had just graduated high school in June and where was I working? I was working at Bi-Rite Liquors and shit like that. Um, and it would be two years before I would go onto the stage at Rascals in Eatontown-

Joe Rogan 46:29 Wow.

Kevin Smith 46:29 ... between the Monmouth Mall and the CV Square Mall and try it myself. And I didn't shit my pants.

Joe Rogan 46:32 Was that the West Orange?

Kevin Smith 46:34 No, that's, that's up north. Ours is down in, like, uh, by Asbury Park.

Joe Rogan 46:37 Oh, that's right.

Kevin Smith 46:38 This place was like a couple miles from Asbury Park.

Joe Rogan 46:40 That's south.

Kevin Smith 46:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:41 I did that one too. I did that once.

Kevin Smith 46:43 You were at Rascals as a pro?

Joe Rogan 46:44 Yeah, as a pro. Yeah, as a pro.

Kevin Smith 46:45 I went on an open mic night.

Joe Rogan 46:46 Ah.

Kevin Smith 46:46 Just because... And I didn't tell my fucking friends because I was terrified my friends would be like, "Why do you think you're funny?" and stuff.

Joe Rogan 46:52 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 46:53 I was not the funniest of my friends, so I wasn't sitting there going like, "Yeah, man, come support me." I kind of did it on the sly and stuff.

Joe Rogan 47:00 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 47:00 And, and I did five minutes and I made, like, one joke that really worked, a bit about sucking my own dick.

Joe Rogan 47:06 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 47:07 And that wound up in Clerks (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 47:08 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 47:08 Like, uh, I, I... It was tested in front of the audience, so I was like, "Well, I know that might get a laugh," and stuff. So what was... How long was your first beat and was it open mic?

Joe Rogan 47:16 It was open mic, yeah. I think they gave you five minutes and I don't think I even had five minutes. I think I had four.

Kevin Smith 47:22 What'd you do, observe?

Joe Rogan 47:23 No, I just, I, I just told some terrible jokes, terrible jokes that I'd written.

Kevin Smith 47:27 Like, literally setup, punchline?

Joe Rogan 47:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they were awful. The stuff that I'd written, you know, just weird stuff where I was trying to-

Kevin Smith 47:34 Did you write them down?

Joe Rogan 47:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I even had a piece of paper that I brought with me on stage because I was terrified I was gonna forget. A lot of guys at the beginning-

Kevin Smith 47:41 Bro...

Joe Rogan 47:42 You knew you were a pro when you could put that paper away (laughs) .

Kevin Smith 47:44 I'm about to cry. That's so fucking sweet, man.

Joe Rogan 47:47 Ah.

Kevin Smith 47:47 A young you... How old are you at this point?

Joe Rogan 47:48 I was 21.

Kevin Smith 47:50 So why'd you wait so long after high school?

Joe Rogan 47:52 'Cause you had to be 21.

Kevin Smith 47:53 To get a license to sell booze.

Joe Rogan 47:55 Yeah, you had to be... To go in a nightclub, you know? That's what I thought. Apparently, I was wrong though, and you, they would allow you as a performer to go in there younger.

Kevin Smith 48:02 Oh.

Joe Rogan 48:02 But I didn't know this at the time. I thought you had to be 21 so I waited until I was 21, which was August 11th, and then I went up August 27th.

Kevin Smith 48:09 What was the... What got the biggest laugh?

Joe Rogan 48:12 Pshh. Who knows? It was ter-

Kevin Smith 48:13 You know the fucking date-

Joe Rogan 48:15 No, I know, I know.

Kevin Smith 48:15 ... and you can't remember?

Joe Rogan 48:16 The material was terrible. I tried to ge- think past it as quickly as possible.

Kevin Smith 48:20 The, uh...

Joe Rogan 48:20 I had one joke that I remember-

Kevin Smith 48:21 All right, there you go.

Joe Rogan 48:22 I went, "This is my impression of a good-looking girl getting pulled over by a cop." Like, "Do you realize how fast you're going?" "No. Do you like my tits?" "Yes, I do. Here's a warning." Like, it was that bad.

Kevin Smith 48:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:33 That's how bad, that's how bad the comedy I was slinging in 1988 was.

Kevin Smith 48:36 I would've wanted to take you home, man-

Joe Rogan 48:38 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 48:38 ... and put you on a shelf. Like, that's an adorable joke, ladies and gentlemen.

Joe Rogan 48:42 Ah.

Kevin Smith 48:42 Wait a second, so how many years before Newsradio is that?

Joe Rogan 48:45 Um, '88 was six years, six years before Newsradio.

Kevin Smith 48:47 So technically, if one follows the journey backwards, that fucking terrible joke lands you eventually...... on news radio.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Yeah, in a way.

Kevin Smith 48:56 And gets you this fucking building.

Joe Rogan 48:58 In a way, yeah, in a way.

Kevin Smith 48:59 Let's not mock that joke anymore. That was a good, strong joke.

Joe Rogan 49:01 Well, that's w- the weird wings of a butterfly that becomes a hurricane, right? Like when you-

Kevin Smith 49:05 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... go back in your life and think about weird little lefts you took or rights you took.

Kevin Smith 49:10 When I-

Joe Rogan 49:10 There's a bunch of those.

Kevin Smith 49:11 When I had, uh, three months ago, I had a heart attack. When I was on the table, 'cause the g- doctor was just like, uh, "You, uh, you have, uh, 100% occlusion in your LAD." And I was like, "I don't know what that means." He said, "Your LAD is your, uh, it's the main artery that goes across the front of your heart." He's going, uh, "It's f- 100% occlusion means 100% blocked. You've got, uh, uh, uh, cholesteral is blocked. There's no way for blood to get through, and that's what's creating your massive heart attack." So, he's like, "We're gonna, we're gonna take care of it right now." He goes, "But you're a comic book guy, right?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "You'll like this. That artery? That's called the widow maker." And I said, "Why?" And he goes, "Because in 80% of cases of 100% occlusion, the patient always dies." He's going, "But you're gonna be in the 20%'cause I'm really good at my job." And he fucking disappeared into my crotch, went up my groin, through my femoral artery, and then fucking went up into my heart and put a stent in that, in that LAD.

Joe Rogan 50:05 Wow.

Kevin Smith 50:05 And the moment he opened it up, he goes, "I'm gonna open it up now." And he showed me what it was, tiny little mesh wire thing. He goes, "I'm gonna open it." Fshoom. Suddenly, it was like (gasps) .

Joe Rogan 50:13 Wow.

Kevin Smith 50:13 Like, 'cause that artery had been, like a hose if you bend it, and it's fucking full of water and shit-

Joe Rogan 50:18 Wow.

Kevin Smith 50:18 ... and was pushing down on the heart, which was in turn pushing down on my lungs. I had no idea I was having a heart attack. I just felt like I couldn't catch my breath.

Joe Rogan 50:24 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 50:24 I thought I was too high.

Joe Rogan 50:25 And it was in between shows, right?

Kevin Smith 50:27 It was between two gigs. There was-

Joe Rogan 50:28 And you were filming.

Kevin Smith 50:29 We shot them both. Well, we were gonna shoot them both, but we only shot the one because I had the heart attack and we didn't do the second one. But it was for, uh, for the folks at Comedy Dynamics, and it became a Showtime special. So, we were shooting two shows that night.

Joe Rogan 50:41 That's fucking crazy.

Kevin Smith 50:41 It was meant to be like an hour and an hour. But, you know, once you get up there, I feel like, "I'm fucking rolling, I'm rolling." So I did two hours. And after the first show, they were like, "We don't even need to do the second show. We can cut an ho- we're only cutting an hour out of it, so you gave us plenty and stuff." I said, "I got two different hours, so I, I'm, I wanna do the second show." And plus, everyone was there. They were lined up. And so, uh, I took a big swig of fucking milk. I was a dairy drinker, heavy dairy drinker in those days. I've since become vegan. I used to be happy, now I'm fucking vegan. But, uh, I took a big swig of milk, then I went to the green room, and I chitchatted real quick with Jordan, who runs our company. That's Jason's wife, Jason Mewes's wife. And, uh, Emily was there. She does my, like, hair and makeup. So, we were chitchatting, and then I was like, "Man, I feel fucking weird. I feel sick. I feel like I'm gonna throw up. Can you guys get out of here? 'Cause when I get sick, I just wanna go off like an animal and fucking die alone. Like, I don't wanna be ministered to. I'm like, 'Fuck off and shit.'" So, they were like, "Yeah, totally." And I lay down on the floor, and I felt like naus- nauseated. And I never feel sick like that. I wound up throwing up some bile, nothing chunky but just, like, fluid.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Ooh.

Kevin Smith 51:44 And so, I was like, "Well, may- maybe I'll feel better now." I stood up, and I looked in the mirror, and I was just swamped, man. Like n- uh, uh, now, as a heavy dude, you sweat when you fucking breathe, but this was like, I'd look like I'd just come out of the pool. And I felt really cold. I couldn't get warm and shit. Emily popped her head in, and she's like, "Are you okay?" I was like, "No, man. Can you turn on, like, a hair dryer and just, like, dry me off? I feel fucking freezing cold." And she touched the back of my neck while she was drying me, and she's like, "You never feel like this. This is scary. You should do something." I said, "Uh, yeah." I said, "I w- still wanna do that second show." I was like, "So I'm gonna find a couch. Just find a couch for me to lay down. If I get, like, a half-hour nap, I'm sure I'll be fucking fine." And I couldn't get comfortable on the couch, couldn't sleep, and that's when I started not being able to catch my fucking breath. So, you know, I'm no doctor, but like, fucking you think, you know, I know my body. And I th- I, I know what this is. I smoke too much weed, and I've got too much mucus in my fucking chest. That's all this is. So, I said, "I better sit up and put my arms up like this 'cause that will help me breathe." And Jordan comes around the corner eventually, and she sees me. She's like, "Are you all right?" And I was like, "You know, I'm having a hard time catching my breath. I can breathe, I just can't get all the way to the top and stuff of the breath, can't take a full fucking breath." I was like, "Uh, maybe I, maybe we shouldn't do that second show after all." And she goes, "Uh, we already canceled it." And I was like, "Why the fuck did you cancel the second show?" And she was like, "'Cause I've never seen you sick like this." She's going, you know, "This, this is weird. Something's going on." I said, "Yeah, maybe I should see a doctor." And she goes, "It's Sunday night. All the doctors are closed." So, we called an ambulance. I was like, "Why the fuck did you call an ambulance? Oh my God, this is, don't. This is embarrassing." She's like, "They're already here." And six firemen came into the room, big, brawny fucking dudes. When you call paramedics, fire department comes as well. So, uh, they're looking at me 'cause I'm sitting in the chair with my arms up. And, and like, they were, some of them were young. Four of them were young. And they look, they looked at me like, "Why is Silent Bob celebrating a fucking touchdown?" You know, and shit. And like, all of the sudden, the medics came in. And they, uh, there was a guy and a girl, and the guy puts a cuff on me and goes, "How you doing, man?" I was like, "Good, I just can't really catch my breath." And, uh, he goes, "Well, we're gonna look at you right now and put this, uh, cuff on you. You ever had this done?" I said, "Oh yeah, I know how to do this." And then the girl had a, uh, like, what looked like a fishing tackle box, had a bunch of leads, wires coming out of it and shit. She put that down. It was a heart monitor thing, you know? They get your fucking blood pressure, all that shit on one arm, and then the other thing they put on your chest to monitor what's going on inside. So, she's like, "I gotta put these wires on you." I said, "Okay."... and I'm sitting in the chair, and this is 40 pounds ago, and sitting is no good angle for a fucking fat guy to begin with and shit like that. So she just yanks my fucking hockey shirt and my undershirt up, and every titty I have falls out of my fucking shirt-

Joe Rogan 54:23 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 54:23 ... in front of these people. And there's a room full of people, and I'm like, "Holy fucking shit." And I yank my shirt down. She's like, "What are you doing?" I was like, "Man, that's my fucking best friend's wife over there. She never seen my fucking tits. My wife's never seen my tits. Like, I can't... You don't yank my shirt up like that." And she goes, "I gotta get these wires on you." I said, "Well, I'll hold the shirt out. You reach up under and put them on my chest."

Joe Rogan 54:42 This is very specific. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 54:43 She goes, "How am I supposed to see?" And I was like, "Just use my nipples as guideposts." Like, it w- you know, I've spent all of my life trying to hide my fucking fat, and when your life is in danger... I've never been in that situation, but when your life is in danger, nobody gives a fuck about your fucking ego-

Joe Rogan 54:58 Vanity.

Kevin Smith 54:58 ... and shit like that, or vanity.

Joe Rogan 55:00 Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Smith 55:00 So they looked at their info and they realized, I guess, what was going on. They were like, "We're gonna take you to the hospital just to be safe."

Joe Rogan 55:06 Wow.

Kevin Smith 55:06 And I was like, "Don't do that. That's fucking embarrassing and shit." And they were like, "Nah, we're so close, man. It'll be fun. You ever been to the hospital?" I was like, "No, not really." They're like, they said, "Oh, it's so fun. It's fun." He goes, "You're gonna have a good time." I was like, "All right." And, you know, I'm a podcaster so I'm like, "Look, at the end of the day, no time is wasted. Everything's a fucking story." So if this turns into the opening five minutes of Hollywood Babylon where I'm like, "They took me to the hospital and it turned out I was just too fucking high." Like, life's great when you're a podcaster 'cause there's no such thing as fucking bad news anymore. Like, it hit-

Joe Rogan 55:35 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 55:36 It can hit you on the level of like, "Oh shit, that's unfortunate," but right away you repurpose it into like, "All right, well, now I got something to talk about." And this latest setback is just the longest... Uh, it's just a momentary chapter in a long story you're fucking telling. So I was happy to go to the hospital, not because I was like, "I think I'm dying," but because I was like, "All right, fucking I'll have a story to tell after this next week. It'll be fun." I got to the hospital, like, Dr. Leidenheim, he's the guy who's now my cardiologist, they pulled me into the ER and he's like, "Hi, how are you? I'm Dr. Leidenheim." I said, "Hey man, how are you?" He goes, "What's wrong? What's going on?" I said, "I can't catch my breath." Um, and he goes, "Well, that's 'cause you're having a massive heart attack." And that was the first time anyone had said anything like that.

Joe Rogan 56:17 How did he know for sure?

Kevin Smith 56:18 That's what he does. I think what he knew for sure was when they put the leads on me and the blood pressure-

Joe Rogan 56:24 Right.

Kevin Smith 56:24 ... they looked at each other at one point, but I assumed like, you know-

Joe Rogan 56:28 So there's, like, numbers that'll show up that'll indicate that something just happened?

Kevin Smith 56:31 And they made this wonderful call. I gotta find these kids and give them a hug one day. Uh, on the call sheet, 'cause we were shooting that night, on the call sheet it was a different hospital. But they took me to Glendale Adventist because they knew that I was in... Uh, having a cardiac episode. And that's... Shy of one hospital in New York, Glendale Adventist is one of the best cardiology wings in the United States of America. So I happened to be in the right fucking place at the right time. We were supposed to shoot my comedy special at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville. Um, it wound up being shot instead at The Alex in, in Glendale and stuff. And if I hadn't been doing the show there, who fucking knows, man? I'm might... I would've gone to a hospital but I probably might have fucking died. 'Cause homeboy told me when he went up the heart, when I was in the operating room and he told me like, "They call that the widow maker," and shit. 80%, 80/20 I sat there going like, "These are the weirdest odds I've ever had in my life." I figure like, look, you leave the house, it's 50/50 you're gonna fucking drop dead, right?Like, you get hit by a car, struck by lightning, you trip over a fucking dog and then the dog bites your jugular and you fucking bleed out. You're like, "But I always loved dogs." And you die ironically.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Whoa.

Kevin Smith 57:40 But, uh, you know, just stringing along. But the... 80/20, man. 20% chance of life was fucked up, fucked up thought. First time I'd ever had that kind of thought. And in my head I had to cognitively reframe it and go, "You don't know. You might have been close to death so many fucking times in your life."

Joe Rogan 57:57 Right.

Kevin Smith 57:57 There might have been, like, a psycho behind you with a fucking knife and then all of a sudden he got a cellphone call and f- forgot about you or something like that. So suddenly I repurposed it. The whole time I was laying on the table I get repurposing every thought. Not repurposing, cognitively reframing. I was sitting... 'Cause I couldn't... Like, at one point they were like, "Your wife's on the phone. Do you wanna s- You wanna talk to her?" After they told me that I was having a heart attack and that they had to get up me fast and stuff. So they're holding up a phone, and I see it, and that's the first time it crystallized where I was like, "Oh, these, these people think I'm gonna die." Like, I didn't f- I was in no pain whatsoever. I couldn't catch my breath. They kept asking me like, "0 to 10, how do you feel? What's your pain level?" I was like, "Negative three." They're like, "You're doing this wrong." I didn't feel pain. It wasn't like... You know, I grew up in the '70s watching Sanford and Son, so my idea of a heart attack is lesbah, like it's big and shit.

Joe Rogan 58:44 Right, right.

Kevin Smith 58:45 Felt none of the symptoms, no numbness in the arm, anything like that. I was sweating. Uh, I threw up bile, a little bit of bile. Um, I was, uh, cold, and, and what was the last one? It was just fucking shit you would never associate with a heart attack. Like, you would associate it with like, "Oh, I just... I feel under the weather." But apparently these are symptoms of heart attacks as well. I like to share it because some cats never heard that before, and I've seen a lot of people on social media since who were like, "You saved my life. Here's why." Because I talked about the fucking symptoms and shit. So, while I'm laying there and they go up your groin, they go up your femoral artery to your heart and stuff, he went up and he saw that it was all blocked. He, uh... I said later on, I was just like, "Fuck, man. Like, I, like, dropped 80 pounds three years ago. I've been, like, walking up a hill a mile and a half every day and stuff." He goes, "Yeah, but the kind of blockage you had," he goes, "that didn't start fucking recently." He's going, "That started in childhood." And I was like, "Man, fucking Hostess Twinkies." And then I remembered we had no money, so I was like, "Mm, man, fucking Little Debbie Swiss Delights and shit." That's how it happened. It started with the-

Joe Rogan 59:47 I prefer the Little Debbie cakes.

Kevin Smith 59:48 I'm with you, 'cause I was raised on them and shit.

Joe Rogan 59:50 Yeah. (?)

Kevin Smith 59:50 But, you know, we were trained to like Twinkies more because they had a commercial.

Joe Rogan 59:53 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 59:53 Little Debbie would never bother with a commercial.

Joe Rogan 59:55 They didn't have a commercial, did they?

Kevin Smith 59:57 No, you can't... Well, the... Years later they did, but when we were kids they didn't because how can you have a commercial and sell your product for 59 cents a box?

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 They were like a m- a moister cake.

Kevin Smith 1:00:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 Looks like a better experience.

Kevin Smith 1:00:06 'Cause they had more of those trans fats that are (laughs) just so goddamn yummy.

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 Oh, the ones that kill people. Did they have trans fats back then?

Kevin Smith 1:00:12 I think so. I think they didn't call it fats.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 When did they invent trans fats?

Kevin Smith 1:00:15 ... probably, well, think about it. Trans fats are part of, uh, uh, when you eat, like, what were those cookies that were not Pique Frean's? Um, it is, like, a white Oreo. Um, goddamn it, I forget the name of it. It was well, fairly well-known, but when I was a kid, it was an older brand from child, some of my parents' childhood. And ... Hydrox!

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 Mm.

Kevin Smith 1:00:40 Hydrox, their name, Hydrox, comes from hydrogenized, uh, palm oil or corn oil.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 (laughs)

Kevin Smith 1:00:47 And so-

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 That shit's terrible for you. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 1:00:49 ... so they, that's when it began. They were like, "Hey, we can take this and fuck it up and turn it into something edible," and shit like that, not knowing-

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Wow.

Kevin Smith 1:00:55 ... it would block our arteries.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah, that-

Kevin Smith 1:00:57 But-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 ... canola oil, like all that kinda shit.

Kevin Smith 1:00:59 That kinda nonsense.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 That stuff.

Kevin Smith 1:01:00 But I went re-

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 No bueno.

Kevin Smith 1:01:01 After a heart attack, I went fucking vegan.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Hydrox, that's it.

Kevin Smith 1:01:03 There it is, Hydrox.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 That is crazy. It's named after a chemical that can fucking kill you. (laughs)

Kevin Smith 1:01:09 (laughs) And that's how they marketed it back in the day. "Hey, kids! Chemicals."

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 Dude, I used to fuck up some Pepperidge Farms cookies.

Kevin Smith 1:01:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Remember those Pepperidge Farms, the little white bag?

Kevin Smith 1:01:17 Dude, well, you're talking to a fat man. I've eaten every fucking cookie there is, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Come on, son. With milk, ooh.

Kevin Smith 1:01:21 Do you remember when they marketed the Almost, Almost Home cookies?

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Almost Home cookies? I don't remember those.

Kevin Smith 1:01:27 So essentially, there was a craze, and then s- d- d-d-d... They still exist to some degree. But when we were children, cookies were hard.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 1:01:35 Unless they came out of an oven fresh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 Oh, yeah.

Kevin Smith 1:01:37 But then they started serving these soft-baked cookies. You can get them. There they are, Almost Home.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Dude, now I remember.

Kevin Smith 1:01:42 In your grocer's aisle and shit. And so you'd take this cookie out of the package and bite it, and it was soft as if it came out of the oven.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Oh.

Kevin Smith 1:01:51 That too was a chemical process, I believe.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Whoa.

Kevin Smith 1:01:53 Because things are meant to get hard-

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 1:01:55 ... after they come out of the oven.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Of course, quickly.

Kevin Smith 1:01:57 And it didn't ha- exactly, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Oh, yeah.

Kevin Smith 1:01:58 It's like watching porn. You get hard fast.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Just mush. You're eating some mush that doesn't turn into mold.

Kevin Smith 1:02:03 I, uh, I went vegan post-heart attack, but I'm certainly... It's not a ethical, uh, thing. Like, my kid's vegan 'cause she's like, "I love animals." But I went vegan 'cause they were like, "You know, if you go plant-based, you've got a really great chance of dropping your cholesterol." And my kid had been bugging me to go vegan for like three years and stuff. And not, but honestly, not bugging me. She would just make comments every once in a while, like, "Not your mom, not your milk," whenever I was drinking milk and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 1:02:28 So after the heart attack, nutritionist was in the hospital room with me and going like, "100% blockage, man. You... Definitely time to change your diet." I was like, "Yeah, you're right." And-

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 What were you eating before?

Kevin Smith 1:02:38 Like, just fucking... Uh, not even, like, everything.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 But you lost a lot of weight, and when you lost a lot of weight, I remember you were doing a lot of juicing.

Kevin Smith 1:02:44 Yeah, I was doing a bit of that, which-

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Vegetable juices?

Kevin Smith 1:02:47 ... they've since told me is not good because you're supposed to distribute the juice of whatever with the fiber-

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 1:02:57 ... while eating the fruit and stuff. This juicing thing is, is-

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 Well... So it depends on what juice. I mean, if vegetable juice, it's not really an issue.

Kevin Smith 1:03:04 But with, with things with a lot of sugar in it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Um, but it is high sugar content.

Kevin Smith 1:03:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Smith 1:03:06 Like in, like I'm part of... Now I'm a Weight Watchers ambassador. And-

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 Even people that, um, believe that, like, they, they like vegetable juices, they say that you're really better off with, like, a vegetable smoothie.

Kevin Smith 1:03:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Like, where you get the fiber from-

Kevin Smith 1:03:18 It is all about the smoothie.

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Yeah.

Kevin Smith 1:03:20 Keep some of the fiber in it. In the Weight Watchers diet, they got these, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Keep all of it, throw the whole celery and all that jazz.

Kevin Smith 1:03:24 ... you go by points and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Yep, right.

Kevin Smith 1:03:26 Some shit, like you can... If you eat a banana, no points. If you juice a banana or blend a banana, then it has points.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Oh.

Kevin Smith 1:03:35 Because then it's no longer about the fiber.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 No fiber.

Kevin Smith 1:03:37 It's all about the sugar at that point.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Eggs don't have any points anymore, huh?

Kevin Smith 1:03:40 No, they took points away from, like, eggs, turkey, and chicken, which broke my heart 'cause I used to love turkey and chicken. Then I realized I didn't love turkey and chicken as much as I thought. Like, I went on, in order to, uh... Uh, after the heart attack, um, I read, uh, well, I listened to it on tape. Um, and