EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,061 words- 0:08 – 2:05
Catching up after years: busy lives, “man empire,” and why podcasts matter
- JRJoe Rogan
Biatch. We're live. Dude, we always, we always say-
- KSKevin Smith
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... we're gonna do these regularly.
- KSKevin Smith
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Every, like, two or three years, we pledge that we will do these regularly. (laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
And then a decade goes by- (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But we're here.
- KSKevin Smith
... and then we don't see each other. But I hope that in your heart, just like mine, that, uh, it's not like, "Ugh, I've had enough of that fuck."
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no, no, it's life.
- KSKevin Smith
It's like, you know, he... I know how f-... I see how busy you are. You're one of the few people I follow on Instagram. And I, I've said it on the previous show, I just love to look at your life 'cause I'm like, "Fuck, he's doing everything he wants and nothing I'd ever wanna do-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
... but, fuck, he goes to the hill." And not in a judge-y way of, like, "He shouldn't be doing that," but just, like, you know, you li-... I've said it, but you live a man's life. I live a boy's life as a 47-year-old man.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
So you do things like you got a float tank, you hunt, you got a fucking... You know how to handle a bow and arrow. I'm the guy that writes about people that shoot bow and arrows to stop crimes. They usually have boxing gloves at the end of them and shit like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but that's good too. Like, we all-
- KSKevin Smith
Oh, believe me, I ain't shit on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
We need it all. Like...
- KSKevin Smith
But I, I do, I do... I, I guess the point is, I know you're busy as fuck, and I know sometimes I get very busy as fuck, but I think we only don't do this because of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
... how busy we are.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's all it is. I mean-
- KSKevin Smith
My fe-... And that's, that's very kind of you to say. You're like, "That's... Yes. Yeah, I'll buy that."
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no, it's all it is for me, for sure.
- KSKevin Smith
But for me, I'm like... For me, I'm like, "Fuck, I could do that once a week," because I'd walk away... I always walk away with a real, like, uh, li-... I've never done cocaine, but I imagine it's what it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
... to do a line of cocaine off, I don't know, somebody beautiful or something like that.
- NANarrator
(Gasps) Hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
I always walk away with wisdom, and it's wisdom that even though it's on a podcast and recorded and there's a record of, like, "Well, that's where you learned those things," I still go out into the world, present them as my own. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's for-
- KSKevin Smith
Like I'm a smart, well-read person.
- 2:05 – 4:47
Hollywood sobriety and the cocaine myth: confidence, temptation, and success
- KSKevin Smith
I never... I still have never in this lifetime done, uh, knowingly done cocaine. Somebody might've slipped it to me and I'm...
- JRJoe Rogan
You and I both.
- KSKevin Smith
R- Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I never touched it. But one time-
- KSKevin Smith
Come on, man. That's fucking...
- JRJoe Rogan
My man, my man.
- KSKevin Smith
You know what I'm saying? Like...
- JRJoe Rogan
In Hollywood, we're rare.
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah. And also just, like, as entertainers, we're rare as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
Does it ever make you feel less than when you read about-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- KSKevin Smith
... those of us who try to be funny in this business and those who have been insanely successful and become icons? They always have, you know, "And then they did blow-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep, yep.
- KSKevin Smith
"... for hours and blah, blah, blah." Do you ever feel like, "Oh, that's not part of my matrix, hence I must not be one of the greats"?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I'm very lucky that I don't. But-
- KSKevin Smith
That you don't feel that?
- JRJoe Rogan
That I don't feel that.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because I think I'd have a real problem with speed and amphetamines and coke. I think I'd have a real problem with it. I think I-
- KSKevin Smith
That's what draws your eye, like from a distance?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think I would enjoy it.
- KSKevin Smith
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think I'd enjoy it. Um, and I think it's the worst thing for someone like me who's a probably overconfident person to begin with.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, which has served me well. But, (laughs) but, um, that stuff makes you crazy overconfident.
- KSKevin Smith
You see, I only giggle overconfident. I only giggle not because, uh... It's, it's not facetious. It's if you walked into the facility that I just walked into and had the grand tour that you were given, uh, gentle listener and watcher at home, uh, I was, I was saying to Joe before we went, like, he's got this new pl-... New to me. I don't know how long you've been here. Since October you said.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
But it's li-... It's a paradise. It's a, you know, the... Fuck the term man cave. This is like man empire.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 4:47 – 6:43
Early podcast pioneers: SModcast origins, Adam Carolla, and escaping gatekeepers
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
... "Hey, try it," because, oh, my God, it's fucking fun for me. And, uh, you know, we've been... We're rare birds in as much as we've been around since the fucking art form started. Like, y- you've been doing podcasts since a minute after podcasts began.
- JRJoe Rogan
Carolla started first. He was the guy who-
- KSKevin Smith
All right. Well, I predate Carolla.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, yeah, for sure, for sure.
- KSKevin Smith
But, uh, but so... But you're in the first five years?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's right. You were... Well, what year w- did you start?
- KSKevin Smith
I started... We just celebrated. Last year was our 10th anniversary of Smodcast, so we're now year 11. So count back from now is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
... 2007?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's a couple-
- KSKevin Smith
2007.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of years.
- KSKevin Smith
When did you begin?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think 2009. I think it was December 2009.
- KSKevin Smith
All right. So two... Yeah, within two years of the, of the big bang. When I, when I w- jumped in, it was Leo Laporte doing This Week in Tech, and I think he still does that, and the Happy Tree Friends, and that was like the Apple podcast top five. And then me and Scott started with Smodcast, and then later on, we added a bunch of stuff. But getting in within the first two years, like, we happened, and then right on the heels of us-... Adam was on the radio and then the radio job went away. And Adam-
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what year was that where Adam went to podcasting?
- KSKevin Smith
It gotta be 2000. If we started Smodcast 2007, I got ... It's either in ... We start February 2007. Either he loses the radio gig in 2007 and moves to podcasts or it happens in 2008.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
But it was ...
- JRJoe Rogan
It was in that neighborhood.
- KSKevin Smith
Yes. And he's, he was the, uh, the, the model for a lot of folks now, like Ralph Garman, the guy that I do Hollywood Babble under.
- JRJoe Rogan
I love Ralph.
- KSKevin Smith
Ralph's amazing. He was let go by K-Rock earlier this year or later. Yeah, like at the end of last year, right before Christmas. And so he too moved into a kind of online world. Um, it, it, it can sustain a motherfucker if you got enough people who care about you.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's a smart, talented guy.
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ralph, Ralph's a very smart-
- KSKevin Smith
The Ralph Report is his show.
- JRJoe Rogan
I like him a lot.
- KSKevin Smith
He's a good dude.
- 6:43 – 12:48
Building live podcast shows: SModcastle, Hollywood Babble-On, and touring growth
- KSKevin Smith
That's how our friendship began. You sit there doing the show, and then afterwards, like I was a cigarette smoker in those days, and we'd sit there out in the parking lot and smoke. And slowly, like I remember I came in once to K-Rock just to announce like, uh, "Hey, I've, I've rented a theater on Santa Monica Boulevard and we're calling it Smodcastle. And we're gonna ... We're the world's first live podcasting theater and we're gonna do podcasts there and stuff." And so Ralph was listening. He's right there. And then, uh, like months prior, he had approached me, he is like, "Hey man, would you ever wanna do like the Showbiz Beat?" That's what he used to do on K-Rock, on Kevin and Bean, like as a Saturday show. And I was like, "Fuck yeah, hear myself on the radio? That'd be fantastic." So we recorded a demo for the show, gave it to his bosses, and his bosses were like, "Nobody wants to listen to people talk on the radio anymore." And so it died there, just like how years ago things died when you couldn't get past a gatekeeper who was like, "We don't want your shit."
- JRJoe Rogan
Was this after the talk radio station in LA went under?
- KSKevin Smith
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. So they probably were like-
- KSKevin Smith
Yes, 'cause-
- JRJoe Rogan
... they got burned on that. It didn't work.
- KSKevin Smith
And, and they were just like, you know, K-Rock was reading the tea leaves, which was like, people don't want to hear people chat, they just wanna play music.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KSKevin Smith
We're competing with satellite radio.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KSKevin Smith
Now we're competing with streaming music where it's like they don't have to wait 15 minutes to hear a song. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
They had some good shows though, like Conway-
- KSKevin Smith
Tremendous.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Steckler. That was a really good show.
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They were great. There's a bunch of really good shows.
- KSKevin Smith
But the, uh ... So he ... We had tried that, um, and it was called Showbiz Beat. And then months later when I was in there going like, "Yeah, I'm opening this podcast theater." Afterwards in the parking lot, grabbing the post-show smoke, Ralph was just like, "Hey, would you ever want to try that radio show at that theater?" And I was like, "F- fuck yeah, you wanna do it as a podcast?" And he was like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Yeah, let's try it out." And so I was driving home and I texted him at a light. I said, "We could call it Hollywood Babble on."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
There's an old book called Hollywood Babylon that was about like gossipy stories about Hollywood people and stuff. But we spell it of course differently and stuff. And that was my ... That's what I brought to Babble on. Uh, other than that, Ralph built that entire thing. And then my job became to sit next to him and react to the news, which is, that's why I love that podcast so much 'cause as you can tell, I fucking love the sound of my own voice and I wind up talking, talking, talking. On Smodcast, I would lead on Jay and Silent Bob Get Old, which is really about Jason Mewes. I wound up, wind up talking a bunch. But with Babbleon, I get to sit there while he's the main act and I'm, you know, the second banana.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KSKevin Smith
I ... It's, it's nice to be able to top and bottom in the world of podcasting. Like, you know, it, it, it gives you a place to go. If I, if I'm topping all the time, right, then I'm talking about my thoughts and what I believe in and these are the experiences I've had. And people are interested in that. But then sometimes you just wanna check out and talk about somebody else's shit. And on a podcast we do call Fat Man on Batman, that's what we do. I just sit around and go like, "Oh my god, did you watch the Avengers," and shit like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KSKevin Smith
So you get to concentrate on that kind of stuff. So yeah, the Babbleon thing grew insanely organically. We started at that little theater, sat 48 people, and since he was on the radio every morning, he could just fucking sell it out. He'd be like, "Hey, uh, go to Kevin Smith's website and get tickets for Babbleon, it'd be sold out."
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that your place on ... What was it in ... It was somewhere in, in West Hollywood, right? That little theater?
- KSKevin Smith
It was on, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Melrose?
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah, it was on, uh, Santa Monica Boulevard in an area, uh, where they put up a few black box theaters. This e- this section's called The Complex. And we had one theater in The Complex and repainted it and hung up like all the artwork, like you got artwork based on the podcast out in the hallway. Same thing. We were like ... I essentially built a shrine to Scott Mosier, my co-host of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
... of Smodcast, which I'm sure on some level creeped him the fuck out. First time he walked in was just like, "He wants to wear my skin."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 12:48 – 15:45
The “Intellectual Dark Web,” long-form discourse, and universal basic income reconsidered
- KSKevin Smith
... um, just, uh, jump off-topic real quick. What were you... Was it the Times you were featured in for being, like, the, the source for news? What-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, it's this thing that these guys are d- they're, they're (laughs) they're calling something the intellectual dark web.
- KSKevin Smith
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they've connected a bunch of people together that are interesting people that don't follow-
- KSKevin Smith
Poor-
- JRJoe Rogan
... the standard-
- KSKevin Smith
Poor name. Bad marketing. 'Cause when I read it I was like, "I don't think of him as dark web at all."
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- KSKevin Smith
I think of dark web-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's... My friend-
- KSKevin Smith
... I think of murder and shit like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Eric Weinstein, he loves that sneaky-
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... cloak and dagger-type stuff. He came up with the name of it. I... He just gets a kick out of it, I think. But it's-
- KSKevin Smith
But the, essentially the piece was about how you are doing media that the, quote-unquote, "real media" is not doing. Like, you get talked-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's really more about the rise of, like, certain intellectuals that are very controversial, like Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris and all the debate about 'em. I'm just someone who they get a chance to talk to for three hours-
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, in a pretty, uh, well, um, (clicks tongue) well subscribed-to base. There's a lot of people that are gonna listen to these conversations, and they get... They go, "Well, why haven't, why haven't I heard people talk like this before?"
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Why haven't I heard about the idea of determinism versus free will? Why ha- you know, why haven't I heard, like, uh-"
- KSKevin Smith
Last time we, we were here, we talked about wh- the universal monetary, uh, the... Everybody starts with a salary.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, universal basis, basic income.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was, like, super hesitant about that. I was like, "That's nonsense." And then, um, the more I thought about it, I by... Whenever I just, like, immediately dismiss something, I always have to go, "Okay, why, why am I immediately dismissing it?" Like, what's-
- KSKevin Smith
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what's, what, why did I go, "Ah." And then I said, "Ah, that's fucking people. They're just lazy. They just want money," and then I went, "All right. Is that tr- true? Let me see what the fuck's really going on." 'Cause there's a weird reaction that I had, like another reaction-
- KSKevin Smith
That is the, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
... against lazy people.
- KSKevin Smith
The unexamined life is not worth living.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 15:45 – 19:06
Self-driving cars and the nightmare fuel: military robots that can ‘eat’ biological material
- KSKevin Smith
Do they... I mean, one, w- since we're a t- a culture that believes in technology-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
... one's inclined to believe, oh, they will get these self-driving vehicles down to a science.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think they'll get it down. They're g- they're pretty damn close-
- KSKevin Smith
Close, but, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
... considering the fact that-
- KSKevin Smith
... as, as soon as-
- JRJoe Rogan
... it didn't exist.
- KSKevin Smith
... somebody gets hit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- KSKevin Smith
... they get set back couple hundred miles.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's been a few fatalities, right? Several. But how many have been fatalities because of humans? And I always say, "That's true, but how many more humans are driving than fucking robots?"
- KSKevin Smith
That's true.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that shit is off the charts. That number's-
- KSKevin Smith
And that-
- JRJoe Rogan
... gotta be bananas. Like, how many actual robots are out there driving? What do you got, 10? And two of 'em kill people?
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Settle down.
- KSKevin Smith
But still-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
... if you, if you look at the numbers, though-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
... billions of people driving cars, only 10 robots, and they've already taken two lives. So that's pretty... It was a pretty... Those are bad odds right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're gonna eat us, bro.
- KSKevin Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what's gonna happen.
- KSKevin Smith
It's, it's starting.
- JRJoe Rogan
I really believe that. I've been talking about this a lot. There's a fucking robot that, um, uh, DARPA created, and it's called the EATR robot, E-A-T-R.
- KSKevin Smith
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it can fucking fuel itself with biological material.
- 19:06 – 44:00
Roseanne fallout: Ambien, intent vs. impact, network speed, and forgiveness debates
- KSKevin Smith
Have you spoken about Roseanne yet?
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, not publicly. No.
- KSKevin Smith
Have you had private conversations enough to form some sort of thought process on it?
- JRJoe Rogan
I did... I talked... Yeah. I talked to Ben Shapiro about it today on his show, but it won't be out until Sunday.
- KSKevin Smith
What is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Um...
- KSKevin Smith
Do you... Have you ever encountered her in the world?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I've en- I know Roseanne. Um, I talk to her on the phone and I believe every word she said. She told me that she was taking Ambien and that she was drunk on Memorial Day weekend and she tweeted a bunch of stupid shit and she's out of her fucking mind. And she said, you know, in her words, "I need to adjust my meds," you know, "I'm not thinking straight." And she was talking about how exhausted she got doing that television show and she got bronchitis and she was overworked. I think she's stressing the fuck out. She also told me that she did not know that that lady was even Black. She thought that lady was Jewish. And she said to me like, "Do you really think that I would make a joke about a Black lady and say Planet of the Apes? I wouldn't fucking do that." She's like, "I thought she was Jewish. Look at her." So I did look at her. Like pull up her Wikipedia page, this lady. She, um... I mean, she most cert- pull it up so we can see it. I mean, she most certainly could be African American, for sure, but she also most certainly could be like Hawaiian or Native American or-
- KSKevin Smith
Point being that-
- JRJoe Rogan
... Italian maybe. She thought Jewish. That's what Roseanne said, Jewish. This is what she said. I do not know. I don't think she's lying to me. Um, I don't think she's racist.
- KSKevin Smith
Have you ever taken Ambien?
- JRJoe Rogan
But there is... No, I've never taken Ambien.
- KSKevin Smith
And have you ever-
- JRJoe Rogan
But I talked to-
- KSKevin Smith
Did anybody here ever take Ambien?
- JRJoe Rogan
... a good friend of mine about it today.
- KSKevin Smith
Mm-mm. Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he got up in the middle of the night, cooked himself a meal, ate it, went to sleep, got up in the morning, and had no recollection of it. He had to be told that he did. He was trying to figure out who put the, put the plates in the sink, who ate this food, where did this food come from. He couldn't figure it out. He got up in the middle of the night, doesn't remember a thing-
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and cooked himself a meal, sat down, ate it, went back to bed, has zero recollection of it.
- KSKevin Smith
I hate to be this guy-
- JRJoe Rogan
And he said it scared the shit out of him.
- KSKevin Smith
... but during that meal, at any point, did he get racist or anything like that?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) I wonder.
- KSKevin Smith
You know what I'm saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
See, if sh-
- KSKevin Smith
Like he's literally... Like it's one thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
If she didn't really know-
- KSKevin Smith
... it's a, it's a spooky story to be like, "I took Ambien and I made myself some food." It's an even spookier story to be like, "I took Ambien and I fucking killed somebody." But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do-
- 44:00 – 49:11
Adrenaline and performance: Joe’s fighting nerves, first standup, and Kevin’s early comedy attempts
- KSKevin Smith
What was the closest you've ever felt to that? Like, have you ever gotten close to the feeling of, like, uh... What have you done in life that has given you the adrenaline high? What's your highest adrenaline rush, I guess I'm asking?
- JRJoe Rogan
The, probably the most nervous I ever got was when I was fighting, when I was doing martial arts.
- KSKevin Smith
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause there was a nervous for a good reason. It's like, you might get fucked up. It's really possible you might get kicked in the head. But, um, the second most nervous was before I did standup for the first time. I was shitting my pants, man. I was really fucking nervous.
- KSKevin Smith
Why?
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know. I don't know. I didn't-
- KSKevin Smith
Were you living room funny? Like, were you high school funny?
- JRJoe Rogan
Not... I was locker room funny. I was, uh... I would make my friends laugh in the locker room. That was... That's... I got talked into it by a good buddy of mine, my friend Steve Graham-
- KSKevin Smith
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who I'm still good friends with. He talked me into it. Him and my friend, Ed Shorter. They just... They talked me into it. I would make them laugh.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? And... But I thought that they were laughing because they were my friends and I thought, like, "Everybody else is gonna think I'm an asshole."
- KSKevin Smith
Oh, you thought, like, "They're just being polite."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's all... That too, and, like, my sense of humor was fucked up because it was all fighters, you know? And so everybody was, like... They were hard men.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you had to have, like, a certain sting to your gallows humor.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
While everybody was on their way to go kick people in the head. It was just a, a weird life, you know? It was a very, very strange way to be 15.
- KSKevin Smith
Right, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, you know, have 15, 16, 17. That was like my whole life til I was 21.
- KSKevin Smith
So wait, that wasn't the adrenaline rush?
- JRJoe Rogan
The adrenaline brush of doing standup was unexpected. That's why it freaked me out, because I didn't think I was gonna be so nervous and I was shitting my pants. I just didn't have a background in performing. And right before I was going up there, I was thinking of all the times that I, I fought and I should be comfortable doing this.
- KSKevin Smith
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I was fucking shitting my pants (laughs) . I was so terrible. Oh, I was so... I was so terrified.
- KSKevin Smith
Where was it?
- JRJoe Rogan
It was in Boston at a place called Stitches.
- KSKevin Smith
Are they still there?
- JRJoe Rogan
August 27th, 1988. No, no, they're not still there.
- KSKevin Smith
Oh, fuck! You know the date?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, for sure.
- 49:11 – 1:01:01
Kevin Smith’s ‘widow maker’ heart attack: symptoms, the ER, and surviving the odds
- KSKevin Smith
When I had, uh, three months ago, I had a heart attack. When I was on the table, 'cause the g- doctor was just like, uh, "You, uh, you have, uh, 100% occlusion in your LAD." And I was like, "I don't know what that means." He said, "Your LAD is your, uh, it's the main artery that goes across the front of your heart." He's going, uh, "It's f- 100% occlusion means 100% blocked. You've got, uh, uh, uh, cholesteral is blocked. There's no way for blood to get through, and that's what's creating your massive heart attack." So, he's like, "We're gonna, we're gonna take care of it right now." He goes, "But you're a comic book guy, right?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "You'll like this. That artery? That's called the widow maker." And I said, "Why?" And he goes, "Because in 80% of cases of 100% occlusion, the patient always dies." He's going, "But you're gonna be in the 20%'cause I'm really good at my job." And he fucking disappeared into my crotch, went up my groin, through my femoral artery, and then fucking went up into my heart and put a stent in that, in that LAD.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KSKevin Smith
And the moment he opened it up, he goes, "I'm gonna open it up now." And he showed me what it was, tiny little mesh wire thing. He goes, "I'm gonna open it." Fshoom. Suddenly, it was like (gasps) .
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KSKevin Smith
Like, 'cause that artery had been, like a hose if you bend it, and it's fucking full of water and shit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KSKevin Smith
... and was pushing down on the heart, which was in turn pushing down on my lungs. I had no idea I was having a heart attack. I just felt like I couldn't catch my breath.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
I thought I was too high.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it was in between shows, right?
- KSKevin Smith
It was between two gigs. There was-
- JRJoe Rogan
And you were filming.
- KSKevin Smith
We shot them both. Well, we were gonna shoot them both, but we only shot the one because I had the heart attack and we didn't do the second one. But it was for, uh, for the folks at Comedy Dynamics, and it became a Showtime special. So, we were shooting two shows that night.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's fucking crazy.
- KSKevin Smith
It was meant to be like an hour and an hour. But, you know, once you get up there, I feel like, "I'm fucking rolling, I'm rolling." So I did two hours. And after the first show, they were like, "We don't even need to do the second show. We can cut an ho- we're only cutting an hour out of it, so you gave us plenty and stuff." I said, "I got two different hours, so I, I'm, I wanna do the second show." And plus, everyone was there. They were lined up. And so, uh, I took a big swig of fucking milk. I was a dairy drinker, heavy dairy drinker in those days. I've since become vegan. I used to be happy, now I'm fucking vegan. But, uh, I took a big swig of milk, then I went to the green room, and I chitchatted real quick with Jordan, who runs our company. That's Jason's wife, Jason Mewes's wife. And, uh, Emily was there. She does my, like, hair and makeup. So, we were chitchatting, and then I was like, "Man, I feel fucking weird. I feel sick. I feel like I'm gonna throw up. Can you guys get out of here? 'Cause when I get sick, I just wanna go off like an animal and fucking die alone. Like, I don't wanna be ministered to. I'm like, 'Fuck off and shit.'" So, they were like, "Yeah, totally." And I lay down on the floor, and I felt like naus- nauseated. And I never feel sick like that. I wound up throwing up some bile, nothing chunky but just, like, fluid.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh.
- KSKevin Smith
And so, I was like, "Well, may- maybe I'll feel better now." I stood up, and I looked in the mirror, and I was just swamped, man. Like n- uh, uh, now, as a heavy dude, you sweat when you fucking breathe, but this was like, I'd look like I'd just come out of the pool. And I felt really cold. I couldn't get warm and shit. Emily popped her head in, and she's like, "Are you okay?" I was like, "No, man. Can you turn on, like, a hair dryer and just, like, dry me off? I feel fucking freezing cold." And she touched the back of my neck while she was drying me, and she's like, "You never feel like this. This is scary. You should do something." I said, "Uh, yeah." I said, "I w- still wanna do that second show." I was like, "So I'm gonna find a couch. Just find a couch for me to lay down. If I get, like, a half-hour nap, I'm sure I'll be fucking fine." And I couldn't get comfortable on the couch, couldn't sleep, and that's when I started not being able to catch my fucking breath. So, you know, I'm no doctor, but like, fucking you think, you know, I know my body. And I th- I, I know what this is. I smoke too much weed, and I've got too much mucus in my fucking chest. That's all this is. So, I said, "I better sit up and put my arms up like this 'cause that will help me breathe." And Jordan comes around the corner eventually, and she sees me. She's like, "Are you all right?" And I was like, "You know, I'm having a hard time catching my breath. I can breathe, I just can't get all the way to the top and stuff of the breath, can't take a full fucking breath." I was like, "Uh, maybe I, maybe we shouldn't do that second show after all." And she goes, "Uh, we already canceled it." And I was like, "Why the fuck did you cancel the second show?" And she was like, "'Cause I've never seen you sick like this." She's going, you know, "This, this is weird. Something's going on." I said, "Yeah, maybe I should see a doctor." And she goes, "It's Sunday night. All the doctors are closed." So, we called an ambulance. I was like, "Why the fuck did you call an ambulance? Oh my God, this is, don't. This is embarrassing." She's like, "They're already here." And six firemen came into the room, big, brawny fucking dudes. When you call paramedics, fire department comes as well. So, uh, they're looking at me 'cause I'm sitting in the chair with my arms up. And, and like, they were, some of them were young. Four of them were young. And they look, they looked at me like, "Why is Silent Bob celebrating a fucking touchdown?" You know, and shit. And like, all of the sudden, the medics came in. And they, uh, there was a guy and a girl, and the guy puts a cuff on me and goes, "How you doing, man?" I was like, "Good, I just can't really catch my breath." And, uh, he goes, "Well, we're gonna look at you right now and put this, uh, cuff on you. You ever had this done?" I said, "Oh yeah, I know how to do this." And then the girl had a, uh, like, what looked like a fishing tackle box, had a bunch of leads, wires coming out of it and shit. She put that down. It was a heart monitor thing, you know? They get your fucking blood pressure, all that shit on one arm, and then the other thing they put on your chest to monitor what's going on inside. So, she's like, "I gotta put these wires on you." I said, "Okay."... and I'm sitting in the chair, and this is 40 pounds ago, and sitting is no good angle for a fucking fat guy to begin with and shit like that. So she just yanks my fucking hockey shirt and my undershirt up, and every titty I have falls out of my fucking shirt-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
... in front of these people. And there's a room full of people, and I'm like, "Holy fucking shit." And I yank my shirt down. She's like, "What are you doing?" I was like, "Man, that's my fucking best friend's wife over there. She never seen my fucking tits. My wife's never seen my tits. Like, I can't... You don't yank my shirt up like that." And she goes, "I gotta get these wires on you." I said, "Well, I'll hold the shirt out. You reach up under and put them on my chest."
- JRJoe Rogan
This is very specific. (laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
She goes, "How am I supposed to see?" And I was like, "Just use my nipples as guideposts." Like, it w- you know, I've spent all of my life trying to hide my fucking fat, and when your life is in danger... I've never been in that situation, but when your life is in danger, nobody gives a fuck about your fucking ego-
- JRJoe Rogan
Vanity.
- KSKevin Smith
... and shit like that, or vanity.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
So they looked at their info and they realized, I guess, what was going on. They were like, "We're gonna take you to the hospital just to be safe."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- KSKevin Smith
And I was like, "Don't do that. That's fucking embarrassing and shit." And they were like, "Nah, we're so close, man. It'll be fun. You ever been to the hospital?" I was like, "No, not really." They're like, they said, "Oh, it's so fun. It's fun." He goes, "You're gonna have a good time." I was like, "All right." And, you know, I'm a podcaster so I'm like, "Look, at the end of the day, no time is wasted. Everything's a fucking story." So if this turns into the opening five minutes of Hollywood Babylon where I'm like, "They took me to the hospital and it turned out I was just too fucking high." Like, life's great when you're a podcaster 'cause there's no such thing as fucking bad news anymore. Like, it hit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
It can hit you on the level of like, "Oh shit, that's unfortunate," but right away you repurpose it into like, "All right, well, now I got something to talk about." And this latest setback is just the longest... Uh, it's just a momentary chapter in a long story you're fucking telling. So I was happy to go to the hospital, not because I was like, "I think I'm dying," but because I was like, "All right, fucking I'll have a story to tell after this next week. It'll be fun." I got to the hospital, like, Dr. Leidenheim, he's the guy who's now my cardiologist, they pulled me into the ER and he's like, "Hi, how are you? I'm Dr. Leidenheim." I said, "Hey man, how are you?" He goes, "What's wrong? What's going on?" I said, "I can't catch my breath." Um, and he goes, "Well, that's 'cause you're having a massive heart attack." And that was the first time anyone had said anything like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did he know for sure?
- 1:01:01 – 1:17:47
Rebuilding health: veganism, quitting dairy, the potato diet, fasting, and cholesterol reality
- KSKevin Smith
After a heart attack, I went fucking vegan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hydrox, that's it.
- KSKevin Smith
There it is, Hydrox.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is crazy. It's named after a chemical that can fucking kill you. (laughs)
- KSKevin Smith
(laughs) And that's how they marketed it back in the day. "Hey, kids! Chemicals."
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, I used to fuck up some Pepperidge Farms cookies.
- KSKevin Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Remember those Pepperidge Farms, the little white bag?
- KSKevin Smith
Dude, well, you're talking to a fat man. I've eaten every fucking cookie there is, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Come on, son. With milk, ooh.
- KSKevin Smith
Do you remember when they marketed the Almost, Almost Home cookies?
- JRJoe Rogan
Almost Home cookies? I don't remember those.
- KSKevin Smith
So essentially, there was a craze, and then s- d- d-d-d... They still exist to some degree. But when we were children, cookies were hard.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- KSKevin Smith
Unless they came out of an oven fresh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
But then they started serving these soft-baked cookies. You can get them. There they are, Almost Home.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, now I remember.
- KSKevin Smith
In your grocer's aisle and shit. And so you'd take this cookie out of the package and bite it, and it was soft as if it came out of the oven.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- KSKevin Smith
That too was a chemical process, I believe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- KSKevin Smith
Because things are meant to get hard-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
... after they come out of the oven.
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course, quickly.
- KSKevin Smith
And it didn't ha- exactly, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- KSKevin Smith
It's like watching porn. You get hard fast.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just mush. You're eating some mush that doesn't turn into mold.
Episode duration: 3:12:50
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Transcript of episode aC7p0Upkh34
