Joe Rogan Experience #1131 - Dave Rubin

Joe Rogan 0:02 Five, four, three, two... (claps) Dave Rubin, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, buddy?

Dave Rubin 0:09 What's up, brother?

Joe Rogan 0:10 Dude, I haven't seen you, uh... Well, the last time we saw each other was just now. But before that was right before the election.

Dave Rubin 0:17 The day before the world changed-

Joe Rogan 0:20 Squirrely times.

Dave Rubin 0:22 ... forever.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Squirrely.

Dave Rubin 0:23 Does not... Literally, it seems like a lifetime ago. Not even a lifetime ago, it, it, it's like a different life for me, I think it's a different life for you. Think about how much has changed for both of us in that time. But it seems like another planet-

Joe Rogan 0:33 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 0:33 ... like an alternate universe the day before the election.

Joe Rogan 0:36 It is, in a lot of ways, right? I mean, people are... The world's going... Well, people are... The world's trying to find its footing.

Dave Rubin 0:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:43 You know? It's a lot of craziness.

Dave Rubin 0:46 Well, I hate to tell you, Joe-

Joe Rogan 0:48 Uh-oh.

Dave Rubin 0:48 ... but you are a little piece of the finding of the footing.

Joe Rogan 0:51 Hmm.

Dave Rubin 0:52 Because people are finding the footing. You know, I'm on tour with Peterson right now. I just got in this morning from Atlanta. And it's like, there is, without being hyperbolic, there is some kind of awakening happening right now. People are kinda getting their shit together. They're kinda sorting out things. They're... Through long form conversations, like we're all having and all these people that we're now connected with, there's something happening where people are going, "There's another way to make sense."

Joe Rogan 1:19 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 1:19 "And, and let me figure out what that is." It doesn't mean we have all the answers, and I (laughs) sure as hell know I don't, and I don't think you think you do either. But we're at least giving them a little room to figure it out. And it's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Well, the thing about Peterson that's r- been fascinating is how many people misrepresent what he says to try to frame him, uh, him in a way that makes him evil and makes their position seem more ethical or more moral or better or more intellectual. There's so many articles being written about him almost on a daily basis-

Dave Rubin 1:47 It is-

Joe Rogan 1:47 ... that misrepresent what he's saying.

Dave Rubin 1:49 ... it's epic bullshit. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:50 It's weird.

Dave Rubin 1:51 ... that's all it is. These guys want clicks. That's all they want. I mean, I've... We've done about 20 shows in the last six weeks or so, bounced around from Nashville and Houston and Atlanta and Chicago and everywhere else. The crowds have been incredible. It's, it's probably split... You know, first off, they always go, "Oh, it's angry white men." That's the main thing. "It's all angry white men." Now, first off, let's say it was all angry white men there. That, in and of itself, doesn't mean it's bad. Let's say there was, like, a really disaffected group of angry white men that really felt like either masculinity had been compromised, or they couldn't get jobs, or they didn't feel good about their lives. Like, if there was someone talking to them that was helping them-

Joe Rogan 2:28 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 2:28 ... that would actually be good. But let's just put that aside, right? 'Cause they don't mean it in a positive way. So, they say it's all angry white men. Now, I could tell you it's about 60-40 male to female, roughly. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:38 At Jordan shows?

Dave Rubin 2:39 At Jordan shows, yeah. And it's-

Joe Rogan 2:41 Do you think that's, like, dates that reluctantly go along with men? Like, all right.

Dave Rubin 2:45 (laughs) Uh, w- There are some. I mean, there will be guys that... Well, it's actually usually girls will come up to me after, and they'll go, "You know, he's a big fan of you guys," or, "He loves Jordan," or, "He loves you," or blah, blah, blah. And I, I'm just here. But then they all have a great time. I mean, I'm telling you, this thing has been an insane love fest. I know you saw the video that Jordan posted last night.

Joe Rogan 3:02 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 3:02 It was his birthday last night.

Joe Rogan 3:04 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 3:04 We were at, uh, where the hell was I? Atlanta, the Tabernacle in Atlanta. You know, almost 3,000 people singing Happy Birthday to him. We brought out this freaking stuffed lobster and a, and a piece of meat, 'cause he's on this crazy meat diet now. And it's like, it's an endless love fest. Every street we walk down, people high-fiving us, saying hi. We did a little meet and greet impromptu thing at the Lincoln Memorial, and about 100 people showed up just out of nowhere. And it's like, these people are just trying to figure shit out. They're not white supremacists. They're not alt-right. They don't hate women. It is literally nothing that they say, because they want clicks. And the way they get clicks, I mean, you know, the way they get clicks is they say the absolute reverse from the truth. It's not that they lie a little bit. Like, a little lie, I think nobody would even pick up on it. We don't-

Joe Rogan 3:49 Do you think that's what they're do- I think they're just misrepresenting. I don't think they're, they're saying the abso- the opposite of the truth. They're just, they just... Look, they're, they're finding these little categories, like homophobia, transphobia, um, sexism-

Dave Rubin 4:02 Well, he's not a homophobe.

Joe Rogan 4:03 Of course.

Dave Rubin 4:03 He's on tour with a gay guy.

Joe Rogan 4:05 (laughs) Right.

Dave Rubin 4:05 He's not a transphobe. There are trans people that show up there. And I, and I've discussed it with him every freaking night. I ask... You know, we do a... So, I basically do, like, 15 minutes of standup up top, he does an hour and a half, and then we do a Q&A together. Um, and we bring out all of these things, and every night, to clear it up. And sometimes I'll have people br- bust out their phones. And I'll be like, "Why don't you guys record this tonight, and let's get it out on Twitter?" Where he takes down the alt-right, because he hates the identity politics of the right as much as the identity politics of the left. I mean, I think-

Joe Rogan 4:32 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 4:33 ... I think the reason we all focus on the thing of the left is because it has encompassed culture and media and politics and what you're allowed to say and, and, uh, universities and all of that. So, it makes more sense to focus on that. The little sliver of it that's on the right, yeah, it's shitty. It's horrible. You should not look at your skin color as some great thing that makes you better or-

Joe Rogan 4:53 But is that a right thing? Is racism always a right thing?

Dave Rubin 4:56 No, not at all.

Joe Rogan 4:57 Like, are all racists right?

Dave Rubin 4:58 No, I think the left is far more racist than the right at this moment.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Really?

Dave Rubin 5:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Why do you think that?

Dave Rubin 5:02 Because identity politics is based in racism. You happen to be white. I know nothing about you by the color of your skin. I know about Joe Rogan because I watch the show, I listen to the show. We've done this several times. And we... And for the hours that we're gonna sit here now, we can dive as deep into any issue, and that's the only way that I can sensibly judge you. But the idea that you will look at people, that you would look at a Black person, a Black person would be sitting there, or a Muslim person would be sitting there, or a trans person's sitting there, and you'd go, "I have even the inkling of what you think," because of that immutable characteristic, that is actual racism. That is pre-judging, right? Judging first, before you know somebody. So, I have a much bigger issue with that, because that has infected everything in American society right now. The identity politics of the right, that this should be a white ethnostate or something like that-

Joe Rogan 5:52 But is that real?

Dave Rubin 5:53 ... of course it's nonsense.

Joe Rogan 5:54 But, but hold on a second. That's not really the identity politics of the right. The, the, so, what are they?

Dave Rubin 5:58 So, it's not-

Joe Rogan 5:58 Well, I don't think the left is necessarily that way either. I mean, I think the identity politics, th- there's a real issue, right, with people that only identify with other women, women that only identify with women-

Dave Rubin 6:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:09 ... and don't care about men. There's a, a real issue with people that are, uh, only American, they don't care about the rest of the world. There's like, there's all these weird groups. But I think we run into problems when we start saying, "Oh, it's the left that's doing this. It's the right that's doing this." I think it's just tribal. It's just this weird thing that human beings tend to gravitate towards cr- tribes.

Dave Rubin 6:30 For sure.

Joe Rogan 6:30 We-

Dave Rubin 6:30 And look, we can, we can...I talk about things usually from a little more of a political lens than I think you do.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dave Rubin 6:35 So, yes, of course, ultimately it is tribalism, however you wanna parse that tribalism, right?

Joe Rogan 6:41 Right.

Dave Rubin 6:41 So, yes, the le- and I say this all the time, but the left/right thing doesn't make that much sense anymore. You're either basically-

Joe Rogan 6:47 No.

Dave Rubin 6:47 You're basically for freedom, you're for the individual to live freely, however they see fit, or you believe that the government should engineer things and that there should be central planning so that people-

Joe Rogan 6:58 I think that's always shitty thinking. I, I think it's-

Dave Rubin 7:00 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 7:00 ... people that say that the government should engineer things, they're just looking for a solution, and then they think the government should handle it.

Dave Rubin 7:06 Well, yeah, but I think-

Joe Rogan 7:07 So, people that think we should pay more taxes-

Dave Rubin 7:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:09 ... okay, where is that gonna go? It's gonna go to the government. And what are they gonna do with it?

Dave Rubin 7:11 So, you're agreeing with me?

Joe Rogan 7:12 Yeah, in a lot of ways.

Dave Rubin 7:13 Oh, oh, I thought... Oh, okay. I thought you said-

Joe Rogan 7:14 No.

Dave Rubin 7:15 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 7:15 No, no. And I don't mean your thinking, I mean their shit.

Dave Rubin 7:17 Oh, okay. Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:18 I'm... Like, they're having shitty thinking.

Dave Rubin 7:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:20 It's, like, this idea that the government's gonna fix it. The government's filled with people. Like, if we don't have our own individual solutions, we don't have our solutions as human, just as human beings, objective human beings looking at problems, why would we ever think that elected officials, these, these people that are, for the most part, full of shit-

Dave Rubin 7:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:36 Like, they're just trying to say whatever they can say that's gonna appease both the special interest groups and the lobbyists and the people that are helping them get into place, the people that are gonna vote for them and, you know, and then just sort of, like, skirt around all the other issues that are controversial to the point where they can get into office.

Dave Rubin 7:52 Let's try it this way-

Joe Rogan 7:52 It's all they wanna do.

Dave Rubin 7:53 Name three politicians that you really like.

Joe Rogan 7:57 I don't know any of them.

Dave Rubin 7:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:58 I mean, I know-

Dave Rubin 7:59 All right, then, uh, you-

Joe Rogan 8:00 Gary Johnson.

Dave Rubin 8:01 Yeah, so Gary Johnson-

Joe Rogan 8:02 He's a nice guy.

Dave Rubin 8:02 ... who is like, who I like him too, and I voted for him-

Joe Rogan 8:04 I want him to be president.

Dave Rubin 8:04 ... but he was the worst possible-

Joe Rogan 8:06 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 8:06 ... Libertarian candidate, you know?

Joe Rogan 8:08 Well, who's the best Libertarian candidate?

Dave Rubin 8:10 I mean, Rand Paul should be, if he really had the balls to be what he is.

Joe Rogan 8:15 He's gotta learn how to stuff a take down.

Dave Rubin 8:17 Yeah. (laughs) Right. He's got a lot, right.

Joe Rogan 8:19 That guy's coming at you, you gotta, you gotta figure out a way to sprawl.

Dave Rubin 8:22 Right. You could do, you could do two hours with him and he'd be a lot better in a lot of ways, but he should be the guy. But he doesn't have the balls to do it because he wants to maintain being a Republican senator in Kentucky, and he's not gonna do it if he has to leave the party. But if... But I've seen a major shift, I think, in Republicans, or at least conservatives, or generally people on the right, whatever you wanna call that thing, there is a massive Libertarian streak that is alive in them right now, which is why most of the people that I like these days, that I get along with, that I think are, are fair and decent and honest, are pretty much Libertarian.

Joe Rogan 8:56 All right. Define Libertarian.

Dave Rubin 8:57 So, Libertarian... So, Libertarian and classical liberal, this is what I get more than anything else, 'cause I say I'm a classical liberal, which basically means you believe in the individual, the sovereignty of the individual is the simple most important thing. It is your life, it is your duty to do what you see fit. The government is supposed to do pretty much nothing other than protect your life, so it's supposed to have an army and police and stuff like that, and then really just laissez-faire economics. And that... And then, the difference between classical liberal and Libertarian is how far do you wanna go with the government? So, I think there is some utility for the state. But the more I do this, the more I have these conversations and I talk to ANCAPs and, and real Libertarians and all that, I find it hard to defend the state at almost any level at this point. But I do think that because I don't wanna live in Mad Max Fury Road just yet, although we may be heading there, I, I still will defend the state at some level. But I would say everything should be local. We have an incredible experiment here with 50 states. If your state tax is too high, move, go somewhere else. If, if your state doesn't have good education, you can go somewhere else. If you don't like the weather somewhere... But the second we make everything federal, and this is what... It's not just the left, this is what people who are using lazy thinking, that you referred to, they think we should just have one law, that we should all live exactly the same no matter wh- where we are geographically, no matter what our religion or what- however we set our set of views is. That is a nightmare. That is a nightmare for a totalitarian state because if, if the federal government, if one government controls everything, guess what? If you don't like it, you gotta leave the country, you know? Go to Mexico, go to Canada. You probably won't like it there either.

Joe Rogan 10:31 But what are you referring to, like, in terms of, like-

Dave Rubin 10:34 You want-

Joe Rogan 10:34 ... one set of laws?

Dave Rubin 10:35 Well, because you want states' rights.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 10:37 What you should care about is states' rights. So, for example, we live in California. We are taxed out the fucking wazoo. I bought a house last year. It's my first time at 41 years old that I own property in America. I made it. I own property. I don't have to tell you about my property taxes. They're insane.

Joe Rogan 10:52 They're very high.

Dave Rubin 10:52 They're, they're absurdly, absurdly high. And-

Joe Rogan 10:55 But that's the price you pay for living in a spot where everybody wants to live.

Dave Rubin 10:57 Yeah. No, but that's it.

Joe Rogan 10:59 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 10:59 That's the beauty, right?

Joe Rogan 11:00 Right.

Dave Rubin 11:00 So, like, there's a trade-off there. Now, I could move to Texas and the property taxes would be way low, and maybe because they don't tax as much, the schools aren't as good or a series of other things, but that's the beauty of the foot vote. You can go. This is an experiment. This thing in America-

Joe Rogan 11:15 Well, who's against that?

Dave Rubin 11:17 Anyone that wants to keep giving more power to the federal government, which is pretty much everybody these days, pretty much everybody in mainstream, certainly all of the Democrats. All of, you know. The, the, the mainstream set of Democrats and the Bernie and the progressive crew, they would love for the federal government to control everything. And that is an absolute nightmare. That is an absolute nightmare.

Joe Rogan 11:37 But when you say, like, control everything, like, how so? Like what-

Dave Rubin 11:40 They want to control all economics, d- Department of Education, uh, figure out all the environmental regulations, all of those things. I would kick back everything to the states. Let the states decide, and if you don't like it, get going. I mean, that's, that's a beautiful thing. If you, if you really care about marijuana and you live in Alabama right now and it's not legal, guess what? Go to Colorado. Go to California. I mean, that, that's, that's how you'll influence things because you can move your family, your value, whatever you bring to your community and your life. I mean, think about it. Right now if, if California just kept taxing higher and higher and kept screwing up a lot of... There's a ton that's going wrong in the state. Eventually, Joe Rogan might be like, "You know, I just built this freaking kickass new studio here. I'm now paying, uh, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and all this stuff. You might wanna try it somewhere else where they're gonna tax you less." But that's the beauty of the thing. You don't have to leave the country. So, the, the federal government should pretty much do nothing. It should make sure we're not warring with each other, that the states aren't warring. That's about... And then protect the borders.... beyond that, it doesn't have to do a lot. Leave it to the states. Let ... Uh, look, if you had a problem here, you know, your sewage leak right outside, you want the federal government to deal with that or do you want the local municipality to deal with that? You want everything to be as local as possible, because that's how you'll influence things, and that's how you as an individual will be empowered.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Um-

Dave Rubin 13:00 And that's all I have to say about that.

Joe Rogan 13:01 No, I'm hearing what you're saying-

Dave Rubin 13:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:03 ... but I'm just not hearing this g- g- this clamoring for the government to take care of everything. I mean, you hear ... You heard a little bit of ... from Bernie.

Dave Rubin 13:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:11 You know? But I just think a l- again, a lot of that is, like, it- it's not doing it now, so the idea is that the solution would be if the government takes over and we take more rich people's taxes, you know, and he ... He'll spout off about income inequality and take that money and redistribute it, and then somehow or another that's gonna fix everything. But it's not.

Dave Rubin 13:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:28 You're just gonna make government bigger. You're gonna have more jobs. You're gonna have more jobs in government.

Dave Rubin 13:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:33 More red tape, more bureaucrats, more bullshit.

Dave Rubin 13:35 So you're agreeing with me?

Joe Rogan 13:36 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 13:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:37 For the most part.

Dave Rubin 13:37 Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's like they ... Look, you wanna give free college education to everyone. First off, it's not free. I mean, that ... It's ju- ... This is just stupid, lazy thinking to say it is free. It's not free. You gotta pay the janitor and you gotta pay the professors and everybody else.

Joe Rogan 13:49 Well, they mean free for students, and the- the idea being that our taxes, instead of going towards the military, they would go towards education.

Dave Rubin 13:58 Sure, so they should at least be honest in saying that.

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 13:59 'Cause a certain amount of people just hear "free" and you just think it's free. But it's not free. You obviously have to pay for it.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Right.

Dave Rubin 14:05 Uh, but also, we're moving into an economy where robots are taking over, automa- automation is taking over. Go to, you know, what I think McDonald's said, within five years, it's all gonna be iPads. Go to half the McDonald's and, you know, uh, fast food places in airports now. It's all iPads. So if you're ... The more you're gonna ... The- the government, which doesn't do anything right or well or efficiently, the more they say, "Okay, private business, you're gonna have to spend more on employees," well then, all these businesses are just gonna figure out ways, which they should do, I mean, that's ingenuity, right? They- they will figure out ways to save cost, save expenses, and then less people will be hired. And then at the same time, we're gonna be subsidizing all these people to go to college, where often in college, they're learning nothing in gender studies and- and all of these other crazy classes. And we're just gonna have this set of people who have no real skills, and we're gonna set up businesses that will never wanna hire them, because the government is gonna tell them how much to pay. I mean, you have employees here. You don't e- ... You pay them what you think is fair. And if they don't wanna do it, they don't have to. But imagine if the government came in and was like, "Joe, you're gonna have to pay your guys this amount." It's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 15:07 Well-

Dave Rubin 15:08 Think how many people would love to work for you for free. I'm sure you get emails every day, as I do. I don't wanna-

Joe Rogan 15:13 What, stalkers? Talking about stalkers?

Dave Rubin 15:14 Stalkers and ... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:15 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 15:15 I don't want people to work for me for free.

Joe Rogan 15:17 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 15:17 But, like, the i-

Joe Rogan 15:17 No, I don't like interns. I don't like the idea of it. It's silly.

Dave Rubin 15:20 Yeah, but you're a small business owner. I mean that-

Joe Rogan 15:22 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 15:22 That's the fact. And you should be able to do whatever with your business and your property that you want.

Joe Rogan 15:27 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 15:27 It's as simple as that.

Joe Rogan 15:28 Um, I'm- I'm w- ... The ... I think we get real, uh, p- ... There's a lotta cliche terms, and one of them is, like, that people who go to s- college are studying gender studies or lesbian dance theory. But how much of that is really happening?

Dave Rubin 15:43 Listen, man-

Joe Rogan 15:43 It's- it's very small.

Dave Rubin 15:44 I-

Joe Rogan 15:44 It does exist in some weird states. Like, I'm sure you're aware of that lady who was the, um, s- uh, professor from Fresno State who, uh, got in trouble recently.

Dave Rubin 15:53 There's so many of them. Which one was this?

Joe Rogan 15:54 Well, it's the ... Some big lady was talking a bunch of shit. It's just ... They're- they- they're- and she said she could never get fired.

Dave Rubin 16:01 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 16:01 And they- they didn't fire her.

Dave Rubin 16:02 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 You know that- that lady?

Dave Rubin 16:03 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:04 Yeah. There's a lot of them. I mean, there's a lot of really wacky professors out there that do have tenure.

Dave Rubin 16:08 Yeah, that woman was tweeting out some bananas stuff.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 16:10 And she has tenure and she's not gonna go anywhere.

Joe Rogan 16:12 But there's universities all over the country that are constantly teaching kids ... I mean, to- ... For the most part, these are ... They're ... It's a small percentage.

Dave Rubin 16:20 It's a small percentage, but they have way over influence on the amount of people. They have scared the majority into silence. I mean, I don't know how often you're doing colleges these days, but I'm-

Joe Rogan 16:31 I don't do 'em.

Dave Rubin 16:31 Yeah, I'm doing 'em all the time, and what I find ... So I did this thing at University of New Hampshire. We posted it-

Joe Rogan 16:36 I saw it.

Dave Rubin 16:37 So, look, they ... First off, what they did was, there were supposed to be about 300 people there. So they- ... At first, because of the protestors, the school said, "We can't secure a room." So think about that.

Joe Rogan 16:46 What are they protesting you about?

Dave Rubin 16:49 Well, I was suppo- ... Technically, I was supposed to be there that day with Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk-

Joe Rogan 16:53 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 16:53 ... from Turning Point.

Joe Rogan 16:53 Okay.

Dave Rubin 16:54 And we were gonna talk about cultural appropriation and, you know, some of the hot-

Joe Rogan 16:57 Right.

Dave Rubin 16:57 ... hot button stuff. So I don't even know that they all were there to protest me specifically.

Joe Rogan 17:01 Right.

Dave Rubin 17:01 But anyway, that day was the day that Candace and Charlie ended up on TMZ with Kanye, so they bailed on me and just left (laughs) left me for the wolves.

Joe Rogan 17:09 They- they were on TMZ with Kanye? When you mean?

Dave Rubin 17:11 Yeah, just a couple weeks ago, they- Kanye showed up at the TMZ offices with them. And-

Joe Rogan 17:16 Oh, so they just showed up with him and they blew off their- their per-

Dave Rubin 17:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:19 ... their pre-

Dave Rubin 17:19 It's all good.

Joe Rogan 17:19 ... appearance?

Dave Rubin 17:20 Yeah. It's all right. S- ... Well-

Joe Rogan 17:22 Wait, hold on.

Dave Rubin 17:22 It was me at- it was me and University of New Hampshire or Kanye and TMZ. Eh, it's all right.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Yeah, but they had a schedule.

Dave Rubin 17:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Like, they were supposed to be there and they just decided not to?

Dave Rubin 17:30 What are you gonna do?

Joe Rogan 17:31 So the people, like, paid to have you come, right?

Dave Rubin 17:34 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:35 And they were supposed to be paid to go too.

Dave Rubin 17:36 Come to think of it, I didn't get more money for this.

Joe Rogan 17:39 That is ridiculous.

Dave Rubin 17:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:40 The whole thing is ridiculous, that they would just blow that off. It's like, that's a gig.

Dave Rubin 17:43 Yeah, and then-

Joe Rogan 17:44 You don't- you don't blow off a gig because Kanye wants to go on the gossip show.

Dave Rubin 17:47 Yeah, but now you're-

Joe Rogan 17:48 That is fucking stupid.

Dave Rubin 17:49 Well, now you're talking to me, like, as a comic. But it's like-

Joe Rogan 17:51 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 17:51 ... we- yeah, we wouldn't do that. It's just a different-

Joe Rogan 17:53 You don't blow off a gig.

Dave Rubin 17:54 Yeah, it's just a different thing.

Joe Rogan 17:55 People come to see you. Don't just decide, "Oh, this gig is better for me right now."

Dave Rubin 17:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:59 "This gig is with Kanye on TV. Hi, Harvey."

Dave Rubin 18:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:02 "How are you, Harvey?" That's a-

Dave Rubin 18:04 To think that they spent time with Harvey Levin instead of me.

Joe Rogan 18:07 (clicks tongue) That's depressing.

Dave Rubin 18:07 Well, he seems like a nice enough guy.

Joe Rogan 18:09 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 18:09 His business is a little shady.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Yeah, but ... (laughs) Uh-

Dave Rubin 18:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:12 But the whole thing behind it is you don't- you don't cancel a gig because you got another gig that you think is better for you last minute. Like, that's terrible.

Dave Rubin 18:22 What's that phrase, man? "The- the show must go on."

Joe Rogan 18:24 Yeah, it's supposed to go on.

Dave Rubin 18:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:26 For sure. So I saw you getting, uh ... Was that the lady with the- the- the coins in the jar?

Dave Rubin 18:32 They brought- they brought noisemakers. They were slamming on shit. They were screaming.

Joe Rogan 18:35 But this is where it's so ridiculous. Like, you would let them talk and they didn't have anything to say.

Dave Rubin 18:39 I mean, the best part of this ... So first off, 300 people are supposed to be there. They say, "We can't secure a room on campus." So think about what a defeat that is. So this is where you might say, "Okay, it's a minority of students." But think how they affect the majority. That meant that the- a University of New Hampshire ... This is a pretty solid school, in the live free or state ... Li- live free or die state, right?

Joe Rogan 18:57 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 18:58 They could not secure-... because I'm showing up a room on their campus. So, that's already a massive loss, right?

Joe Rogan 19:04 When you, when you say, "Could not secure," you mean safety-wise?

Dave Rubin 19:06 They said they could not secure it safety-wise.

Joe Rogan 19:08 Right.

Dave Rubin 19:08 There were too many threats, whatever the hell that means.

Joe Rogan 19:09 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 19:09 Twitter chat or other nonsense.

Joe Rogan 19:11 So, Candace and the other guy are gone?

Dave Rubin 19:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:14 So, it's just you-

Dave Rubin 19:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:16 ... the, the gay libertarian guy-

Dave Rubin 19:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:18 ... and they're like-

Dave Rubin 19:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:19 ... "Too dangerous."

Dave Rubin 19:20 Too dangerous.

Joe Rogan 19:20 "Too crazy."

Dave Rubin 19:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:21 Like, "What, what is he gonna say? We're gonna, we're gonna have to silence him."

Dave Rubin 19:25 Yeah. Well, I flip the script on their heads. I mean, that, that's what it comes down to. Like, they don't know what the fuck to make of me-

Joe Rogan 19:30 Right.

Dave Rubin 19:30 ... because I don't play their game. But I'm just doing what I think is right. I don't think I'm a freaking rocket scientist. I don't think I'm some massive intellectual. I think I'm someone that can communicate these ideas pretty well. And, uh, and hopefully we'll talk about it, but I'm back in standup now. Like, I'm doing... I'm just doing what I think is right on this planet while I'm here. That's it.

Joe Rogan 19:48 And so when you do these speeches, what do you do when you go to these colleges?

Dave Rubin 19:52 So, so I get up there. So, they move it from this... from the university, 300-seat room, they move it to a hockey rink of 7,500 seats. So, think how absurd this-

Joe Rogan 20:01 (gasps)

Dave Rubin 20:02 Think how absurd this is.

Joe Rogan 20:03 300 people?

Dave Rubin 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 And they're in a, uh... How many people are in the audience?

Dave Rubin 20:06 300 people.

Joe Rogan 20:07 Oh, God.

Dave Rubin 20:08 So, so apparently they didn't... Apparently, like, another 100 supporters of mine showed up, but they didn't even let them in, even though there were roughly 7,100 empty seats. So, they-

Joe Rogan 20:16 Why wouldn't they let them in?

Dave Rubin 20:17 I don't know. 'Cause at that point, security starts... Everything just gets whacked. I mean, this happens at every college thing. Like, nobody knows who's in charge anymore.

Joe Rogan 20:24 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 20:24 You know, it's just like this big clusterfuck.

Joe Rogan 20:26 (yawns)

Dave Rubin 20:26 So, anyway, so they put up, you know, like, a step-and-repeat with the Turning Point symbol behind me and I'm doing my thing, but, you know, there's a freaking Zamboni back there and I'm like, "What the hell am I doing?" Like, "This is ridiculous." But-

Joe Rogan 20:35 And Turning Point, is that a conservative think tank thing? Is that what that is?

Dave Rubin 20:38 Uh, they're the largest conservative, uh, college, uh, nonprofit.

Joe Rogan 20:43 So, why do they have that behind you?

Dave Rubin 20:45 Well, 'cause it was sponsored by them. Charlie-

Joe Rogan 20:46 Oh.

Dave Rubin 20:46 Charlie runs Turning Point.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Okay.

Dave Rubin 20:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:48 But he didn't even have the fucking... (laughs)

Dave Rubin 20:50 (laughs) Listen, it was-

Joe Rogan 20:50 He didn't even show up.

Dave Rubin 20:52 It was either that that thing goes there or I sit liter- I stand there literally in front of, you know, 6,000 seats behind me.

Joe Rogan 20:57 But, but seriously, wh- why... (sighs)

Dave Rubin 20:59 Yeah, I mean, that's for, for them to figure out why they did that.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 21:01 But anyway, 7,000 empty seats, I do my thing, I talked for about a half hour, and I knew there were a certain s- you know, 250 of those kids were there to listen and agree or disagree. I mean, think about it. These, this is the conservative group. They're bringing a gay married guy who's pro-pot, who's pro-euthanasia, who's against the death penalty, for reforming the prison system. Uh, I'm pro-choice. Like, I could go on and on about the liberal-

Joe Rogan 21:23 Right.

Dave Rubin 21:24 ... cred that you and I don't get anymore.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Right.

Dave Rubin 21:26 And they're, they're there applauding me.

Joe Rogan 21:28 What are they h- what are they mad at you for? Like, what's the-

Dave Rubin 21:30 Well, so it's not those guys mad. It's the other-

Joe Rogan 21:31 Right, it's the other 50%.

Dave Rubin 21:32 It's the other... They're mad... They, they, they don't know. They just want you to bow forever. They don't come to listen.

Joe Rogan 21:38 Right. They wanna silence you.

Dave Rubin 21:39 That's it. They just-

Joe Rogan 21:40 But what do they wanna silence you about? Like, what is it that they oppose that you're saying?

Dave Rubin 21:44 Joe, I, I... Literally every time, I w- they would scream or they'd start robotically... You know, they set timers and then they robotically chant, "We're not the problem," or just some other nonsense.

Joe Rogan 21:53 Is that what they say?

Dave Rubin 21:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:54 "We're not the problem."

Dave Rubin 21:55 "Yeah, we are not the problem. We are not..." And I'd, I'd go look, I'd look at them right in the eye and be like, "I'm standing right in front of you. Do you have a question for me? Is there something that I said that upset you? Any of that?" And they can't respond. They, I mean, they just can't respond because they're not there to exchange ideas. They believe they are oppressed and they bel- they... I mean, look, I always go up there. What do I say at every college thing?

Joe Rogan 22:15 Right.

Dave Rubin 22:15 I go, "Think about it. Do you think you have it worse than your grandparents? I want everyone in this room to think about your grandparents right now. And 99.9% of people in America right now have it better than their grandparents had it. I'm sure you have it better than your grandparents had it. I have it better than my grandparents had it. All of these kids, they're at University of New Hampshire-"

Joe Rogan 22:33 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 22:33 "... studying whatever the hell they wanna study. They have it better than their grandparents. But the, the power of thinking that you're oppressed, the power of thinking that the world is warped against you, is... it's a drug. It is truly a drug. And one other thing on that. So, it turns out... Did you see the exchange I got in with the trans woman?"

Joe Rogan 22:50 Yes.

Dave Rubin 22:50 "So, it turns..." So, this trans woman is telling me to go fuck myself and whatever she's saying and screaming along with everybody.

Joe Rogan 22:55 What was, what was she upset about?

Dave Rubin 22:57 Well, 'cause I mentioned the Jordan Peterson pronoun thing.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Right.

Dave Rubin 22:59 And I said, "Look, I want trans people to be treated equally under the law. I want trans people to be respected. I hope you find..." I literally said to her, looking right at her, "I hope, I hope you find someone that loves you in your life. I mean, all, I want you to be as equal and happy as anybody else on this planet."

Joe Rogan 23:13 Right.

Dave Rubin 23:13 "That is what I want for you." She's s- s- still telling me to go fuck myself. It turns out... I didn't know this till weeks later. I found this out about a week ago. She's a professor of gender studies at University of New Hampshire.

Joe Rogan 23:24 Wait a minute.

Dave Rubin 23:25 So, she's literally trying... Sh- you have a professor that is part of the protesters-

Joe Rogan 23:30 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 23:30 ... and she's live tweeting the thing about alt-right Dave Rubin. I mean, so that's where... When, when people think it's this little thing, it's... Yeah, it's this little thing that's, that's metastasizing and spreading like a cancer. And I truly believe that identity politics, that this thing, I think is the biggest threat to, to the West and to freedom that exists.

Joe Rogan 23:49 Did you communicate with her at all?

Dave Rubin 23:51 W- I communicated-

Joe Rogan 23:52 I mean, was it-

Dave Rubin 23:52 ... her from, with my mic and-

Joe Rogan 23:54 But was there... Did she exchange... Did she say what she has a problem with?

Dave Rubin 23:57 No. So, she kept yelling at me and I kept-

Joe Rogan 23:58 What did she yell out?

Dave Rubin 23:59 ... pe- peop- people com- you know-

Joe Rogan 23:59 Do we have a video of this?

Dave Rubin 24:00 Oh, yeah, it's there.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Pull the video up.

Dave Rubin 24:01 It's there somewhere. I don't know where. It's probably maybe an hour in or so.

Joe Rogan 24:04 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 24:04 Um-

Joe Rogan 24:05 I saw it and I just was like, "Oh, poor Dave."

Dave Rubin 24:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:07 "What's he dealing with?"

Dave Rubin 24:08 I got a lot of pity for that, which was nice.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Yeah, it was like, "Oh." When the girl-

Dave Rubin 24:11 You know what-

Joe Rogan 24:11 ... was shaking the jar of coins, I was like, "Ugh."

Dave Rubin 24:13 You know what was really funny, is that, um, I realized that there's one... So, there's one moment in it. I never lost my cool 'cause it's like, it's a bunch of kids yelling at me.

Joe Rogan 24:21 No, I saw you didn't. Good for you.

Dave Rubin 24:22 And as long... And, and yeah, and as long as they're not gonna, you know, take a samurai sword out and stab me or-

Joe Rogan 24:25 Right.

Dave Rubin 24:25 ... anything, then it, then it's fine. But there was one moment where they just kept going and going. So, I sarcastically said it. I was like, "Guys, shut the fuck up." And it got a big laugh and then I repeated it a couple of times. But then I realized that when the school newspaper wrote about it, they said, "And then Dave Rubin told them to shut the fuck up."

Joe Rogan 24:44 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 24:44 But it's like, in print, "Shut the fuck up"-

Joe Rogan 24:46 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 24:46 ... is very different than, "Shut the fuck up."

Joe Rogan 24:50 "Shut the fuck up." (laughs)

Dave Rubin 24:51 (laughs) Yeah. So, that was my one-

Joe Rogan 24:52 Oh.

Dave Rubin 24:52 ... my one lesson in there. But nothing.

Joe Rogan 24:54 Well, it seems like-

Dave Rubin 24:55 Nothing is the answer. She didn't want anything from me. She wanted me to bow.

Joe Rogan 24:58 You should be thrown out.... for doing that because if you are doing that, you're, you're disrupting a performance. You're- y- I mean, I'm sure you would have a Q&A with those people, right? You'd be happy to do that.

Dave Rubin 25:07 Dude, after a half hour, I opened it up for Q&A.

Joe Rogan 25:09 Right, so-

Dave Rubin 25:10 I said, "Let's do the rest, the last hour."

Joe Rogan 25:11 Wh- but you didn't even get a chance to get to that with her, right? She was already yelling at ya.

Dave Rubin 25:14 No. And then I, I think I even said to her, I know I did it with several people, I'm pretty sure she was too, "Do you have a question for me?" And I think her last thing was, "Y- your, y- I hate you," or some- something to that effect. I mean, this is a professor there.

Joe Rogan 25:27 It should be, she should be disqualified for teaching.

Dave Rubin 25:29 Of course.

Joe Rogan 25:29 She's a, an illogical thinker. This is not what you want raising your children.

Dave Rubin 25:33 Yeah. But that's-

Joe Rogan 25:33 Essentially, that's what they are. They're still children. You got this fucking dummy who can't focus enough to have a, a coherent argument that they're yelling out in the middle of your performance.

Dave Rubin 25:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:46 That's ridiculous.

Dave Rubin 25:46 And by the way, for the record, the, uh, authorities, or the police, or the campus safety, whatever it was, did at one point try to have some people sit down and be quiet, and I was like, "Guys, don't worry about it," 'cause it's like, yeah, I guess, we could escalate it to that point where-

Joe Rogan 25:59 Right.

Dave Rubin 25:59 Oh, and by the way, I didn't even want this video to be released. When they videotaped this, I did not want it to be released 'cause I don't wanna add fuel to the fire. I'm trying to fix some of these problems.

Joe Rogan 26:07 That's part of the problem, right, is that this becomes something that they know that they can get a video of, if they go to your next performance and interrupt you.

Dave Rubin 26:13 Yeah, but you know what? I don't think they won one person over to their side. I don't think one screaming lunatic who, who did not come to respect me, even though I was there to respect them... I don't think they won anybody. I think I actually won a lot of people to my side, and I think... I mean, I know it 'cause I've received tons of emails about it, and, and all that.

Joe Rogan 26:29 I've, I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's about winning to your side. I think it's about other lunatics that realize there's an opportunity to get attention if they go to your show and yell things out.

Dave Rubin 26:38 Yeah. Well, that's why I, we ended up putting the video up, because a couple of them would put up these little clips very selectively edited that made it seem like I was doing things that I wasn't, like I was silencing them or just some other nonsense. So then finally, I was like, "All right, if this is the way the internet is, and it just is, then we'll just put up the whole thing unedited," even though I had bef- 10 minutes before, I said, "Guys, don't even record this."

Joe Rogan 26:57 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 26:58 I said, "Don't even record this," because, because Charlie and Candace hadn't showed up, and I was like, "It's ridiculous. I got 7,000 empty seats behind me." But then once people start playing that game, you can either just be the bitch, which I refuse to be, or-

Joe Rogan 27:10 Right.

Dave Rubin 27:11 ... or you can fight back.

Joe Rogan 27:12 Yeah, i- it's a weird place to be because y- you know what they're doing, and they're essentially just trying to rile you up, and if they're not willing to have a real dialogue with you, they're just yelling, "Fuck Dave Rubin," that really should disqualify you from being a teacher. I mean, that's, that's the worst way to communicate. You're demonstrating that your thinking sucks-

Dave Rubin 27:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:31 ... and that you wanna teach about gender studies, but yet, you know, you, you're, you're interrupting a con- and, and you're trying to claim transphobia, or whatever the fuck he's, she is trying to claim. She. It's a she, right?

Dave Rubin 27:45 She, she's a trans woman, yes.

Joe Rogan 27:47 Right, she wa- but she was a man-

Dave Rubin 27:48 Was, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:49 ... and now, now is a woman. Yeah. Okay.

Dave Rubin 27:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:50 We'll, I'm sure there was another one.

Dave Rubin 27:50 And, and by the way, I treated her with complete respect. Like, that's the thing. They, they truly, they want you, they wanna put their foot on your neck and have-

Joe Rogan 27:58 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 27:58 ... you stay there forever.

Joe Rogan 28:00 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 28:00 And that's why every time now that somebody mainstream writes something about you, half the time they're calling you a conservative-

Joe Rogan 28:07 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 28:07 ... 'cause they don't know what the fuck to do with this guy who's talking about drugs and all the crazy shit you're talking about all the time, but also, you're woke enough to actually identify there is a problem here with what's happening in the mainstream, so they, they can't categorize us in any sensible way. So in a weird way, especially because me and you also, because of the nature of what we do, we sit from people that are a little scary. You know what I mean? Like, you've had Jones on, I've had Molyneux on, uh, you know, I had Cernovich on at the, at the beginning, and, and I'm sure you've had plenty of other controversial people. And it's like... So they, there's a odd way that they wanna look at the two of us more than other people because we... by the nature of our jobs, by the nature of how we exist, that's a threat if you wanna control the way everybody thinks.

Joe Rogan 28:53 Hmm. Yeah, you're not supposed to give people a platform. That's what I keep hearing.

Dave Rubin 28:57 Yeah. So w- so what's your policy on that? 'Cause that seemed to be the- after this IDW, Intellectual Dark Web, article came out, that was the big thing that people kept hitting me on. It's like, "You don't want any gatekeeping. You'll talk to anybody." Now, first off, I won't talk to anybody, but I'm a general believer that you let ideas out there.

Joe Rogan 29:14 But what is wrong with talking to people? I mean, that's always been what people have done. There al- there have always been interviews with controversial people.

Dave Rubin 29:20 Guess what happens when you stop talking to people?

Joe Rogan 29:23 Yeah, not-

Dave Rubin 29:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:23 ... good.

Dave Rubin 29:24 Yeah, that's when shit goes down.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 29:25 But there's a lot of people that don't want us talking to people. I mean, I- look, a lot of people were pissed, you, you smoke pot with Jones, right? You smoke pot with Alex Jones.

Joe Rogan 29:32 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 29:32 I watched it. It's bananas. I watched all the memes. And it's like, look, that guy has done some seriously twisted, crazy shit. There is no doubt about it. The Sandy Hook stuff and, and all that.

Joe Rogan 29:42 Yeah, I didn't know about the Sandy Hook stuff, by the way, before we did the podcast.

Dave Rubin 29:46 But ne-

Joe Rogan 29:46 I knew that he believed a bunch of stupid con- conspiracies that I genuinely just dismiss, but I didn't know that he was saying that those kids never died, or that it was a hoax.

Dave Rubin 29:54 Now, would that change the equation for you?

Joe Rogan 29:56 Yeah, I would've been mad at him, and I would've talked about it right away. I would've-

Dave Rubin 29:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:59 ... been like, "The fuck are you talking about? Those kids are dead." Like, there's a guy that was, uh, it was a r- the terrible story about a guy who was a conspiracy theorist before Sandy Hook, then his kid died at Sandy Hook, and a bunch of people were threatening him and calling him a crisis actor and saying his kid never died, and then he realized how insane it, it really is.

Dave Rubin 30:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:17 People are looking for conspiracies everywhere.

Dave Rubin 30:20 Everywhere.

Joe Rogan 30:20 Man. I keep hearing them now about Anthony Bourdain, that Bourdain was gonna expose some child pedophile ring, and that's why they suicided him. It's fucking stupid, man.

Dave Rubin 30:30 Without going down fully on that road, there is one odd thing about the Bourdain thing, which is just a few weeks ago, didn't he tweet some odd thing about having the, the... he's met the Hillary Clinton, like, machine or something, and it's pretty evil, some-

Joe Rogan 30:41 Well, he was talking about... No, no. I'll tell you exactly what it was.

Dave Rubin 30:43 Yeah, what was it?

Joe Rogan 30:44 He was talking about the same people that Harvey Weinstein used, with, that were, um, Israeli... What is it? Black Cube or some shit. See if you can find the tweet because i- he's, he was basically saying that, uh...... that Donald Trump's people use the same people that Harvey Weinstein used.

Dave Rubin 31:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:07 So, an Israeli intelligence group to ... You know, there was something that Harvey had done to his victims where he was trying to silence them by scaring them with these, uh, these, s- you know.

Dave Rubin 31:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Israeli mercenary-type folks, I don't know-

Dave Rubin 31:22 All right. So, point being, don't go down that conspiracy route. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:24 But that's not what he was doing.

Dave Rubin 31:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 I mean, he was just saying-

Dave Rubin 31:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:26 ... he was just standing ... Like, this guy, he had some crazy thing with his girlfriend where he was, like, fully invested in her battle with Harvey Weinstein.

Dave Rubin 31:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:34 You know? So, that's what he tweeted about. But it wa- sh- it's like, they would kill him for that? Like, that's so fucking stupid.

Dave Rubin 31:39 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 31:40 Like, wha- what about Ronan Farrow? What about all the people that wrote the story? What about all the, the, the people that are accusing him of rape? Like, that's ... The guy's going broke too. D- did ... People don't understand that Harvey Weinstein's business is going bankrupt. He's fucked.

Dave Rubin 31:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:53 He's going to jail.

Dave Rubin 31:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Like, it's ... The walls are caving in.

Dave Rubin 31:56 He doesn't even have his businesses anymore. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:58 He's not hiring a mercenary to go kill a chef.

Dave Rubin 32:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:00 I mean, this is fucking stupid. This is-

Dave Rubin 32:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:02 ... stupid thinking.

Dave Rubin 32:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 And, you know, look, it's not, it's not that it's impossible for someone who w- want to hire someone to kill-

Dave Rubin 32:08 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 32:09 ... someone. But I don't think that's what happened. I think he killed himself. And I think it's a terrible, terrible tragedy, and I think it's really disrespectful to have all these, uh, dumb speculative ideas because there's sport in conspiracies. It's a sport.

Dave Rubin 32:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:22 It's a game. There's a hobby that people have in looking to fucking ... "I'm looking for the truth, bro. I'm looking to fucking close the gaps and fill ..." Th- this, it's a, it's ... This is what it is, man. It's the Illuminati. The-

Dave Rubin 32:31 The second you think you got it-

Joe Rogan 32:33 Here, what, here it is, right here.

Dave Rubin 32:35 ... that means you lost it.

Joe Rogan 32:35 Um, okay, here it is.

Dave Rubin 32:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:37 Hold on. Scroll up. "I am in no way Hillary Clinton ... I've been on the receiving end of her operatives' wrath, and it ain't fun."

Dave Rubin 32:44 Right, and that's from about a month ago.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Operatives? Operatives?

Dave Rubin 32:48 Oh, here we go. Now you're gonna fill some gaps for me? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:50 What does that mean, "Her operatives' wrath"? Okay. I don't know.

Dave Rubin 32:54 Well, look, but the-

Joe Rogan 32:54 But oh, he was ... The thing is, Hillary Clinton was b- before the tra- before the, the scandal happened, there's a lot of photos of Hillary Clinton hanging out with Weinstein.

Dave Rubin 33:05 Oh, yeah. Oprah hanging out with him.

Joe Rogan 33:07 Yeah. Everybody cuddling up with him.

Dave Rubin 33:09 Yeah, Meryl Streep.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Meryl Streep cuddling up with him. Like, the whole thing is, there's people that are complicit, for sure-

Dave Rubin 33:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:15 ... in, in one way or another, you know?

Dave Rubin 33:17 So, um, so after everything you just said, and knowing that Jones plays that game a little bit, would you have him on again?

Joe Rogan 33:22 If I had him on again, that would be the first thing I would talk about. You know, I'm, I'm, I've been friends with Alex since 1998. I've known him for a long time.

Dave Rubin 33:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:31 I don't think he's a bad guy. But I think he's very wrong-

Dave Rubin 33:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:33 ... about a lot of things. He's very misguided about a lot of things, and I think he loves conspiracies. There is a bunch of people in this country that love to make ... They love to connect the dots and find conspiracies in fucking everything.

Dave Rubin 33:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:46 Everything that there is. And sometimes they're right. And Alex has been right, definitely. He's been right about a bunch of things. He was right about the World Trade Organization, in particular, about when they were using agent provocateurs to disrupt protests and make them violent protests by smashing windows. And he documented all of it, how these people were, um, none of them were arrested. They were all, uh, uh, they all went to, uh, one safe house and then negotiated with the police, then they were released. They all had military, um, military-issue footwear. Like, he's got all these ph- th- these documents from people that worked inside either police or law enforcement that say that there is a standard practice. And this has existed for a long time. That when you have peaceful protests and you can't do anything about it, the best way to do something about it is to take that peaceful protest-

Dave Rubin 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:37 ... and turn it non-peaceful.

Dave Rubin 34:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 The way you do that are you have these guys wear masks. They go in, they pretend they're one of the protestors, they start smashing windows, flipping over cars, and then you move the cops in. Then they shut the protest down. So, you essentially shut the peaceful protestors down by introducing non-peaceful people.

Dave Rubin 34:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:53 And you ... Th- these are military operatives. These are people that are working for the government or working for whoever the fuck decides to pull the trigger on this. And this is real.

Dave Rubin 35:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:02 This has happened.

Dave Rubin 35:03 Well, there's a lot of people saying that's happening with the Tommy Robinson protests in the UK right now.

Joe Rogan 35:07 See, I don't know enough about that story other than the fact that a bunch of people are mad at me on Twitter-

Dave Rubin 35:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:11 ... for not talking about it.

Dave Rubin 35:12 For not talking about it?

Joe Rogan 35:13 I saw it. I was like, "I don't even know what that is." I'm gonna back away." And then I saw it was something about he was, he was filming outside of a trial of, uh, Muslim pedophiles. Is that what the-

Dave Rubin 35:23 Yeah, they're these grooming gangs, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:25 Grooming gangs?

Dave Rubin 35:26 Yeah, where they rape-

Joe Rogan 35:27 Tell, well, tell me the whole story. We-

Dave Rubin 35:28 So, I, I don't wanna do this as if I'm the freaking lawyer of the whole thing, but in effect, he was filming outside of the, the trial for these, this group of men that are raping, they're raping t- like, 12- and 13-year-old girls, basically. They're on trial. He had already been on probation or something for something else.

Joe Rogan 35:44 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 35:44 And you're not allowed to film outside a courthouse, so technically, I suppose, he is in jail now for the right reasons. But there's a lot of people that think he's not gonna survive being in jail. And I ... Look, I had the guy on my show. Have you ever, have you ever talked to him?

Joe Rogan 35:55 No. I didn't know anything about him until this, this thing happened.

Dave Rubin 35:58 Yeah, I mean, he h-

Joe Rogan 36:00 Just too much to pay attention to.

Dave Rubin 36:01 ... he has ... No, I know, it's a lot. It's a lot of time, man. We're-

Joe Rogan 36:03 You can't keep up on everything.

Dave Rubin 36:04 (laughs) No, I know what you-

Joe Rogan 36:04 I have shit to do. I have kids. I have time.

Dave Rubin 36:06 No, you just have-

Joe Rogan 36:07 I have hobbies.

Dave Rubin 36:07 Don't you have to occasionally just pick one and you're like, "This one." (clicks tongue)

Joe Rogan 36:10 Yeah. Dude, there's a lot of them I just don't know. I don't know what's going on. Like, people go, "How come you're not commenting on this?" I'm like, "I didn't even know about it, you fuck." Jesus.

Dave Rubin 36:16 I know. I love th- I love that when you sit out something on Twitter for six hours-

Joe Rogan 36:19 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 36:19 ... and people start screaming at you like, "Ah, that proves-"

Joe Rogan 36:21 "Where are you?"

Dave Rubin 36:22 "... that you didn't say anything about it."

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah. "Oh, you talk all day long about this and that."

Dave Rubin 36:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:25 "But then this comes up, and you don't hear a word." I'm like, "I didn't even hear about this. I'm just now."

Dave Rubin 36:29 Yeah. Well, all right. Let's not dive too deep in that.

Joe Rogan 36:31 So-

Dave Rubin 36:31 But qui- but quick on Jones though. So, I'm not actually, in case you think I am, I'm not giving you shit for doing it. I'm just curious-

Joe Rogan 36:36 No, that's okay.

Dave Rubin 36:37 I'm just curious because I think part of the article that, that Bari Weiss wrote in The Times about us, she was talking about that. And there's a line in there where she said, you know, "If you talk to these people," meaning Jones and Crnovich and Molyneux-

Joe Rogan 36:50 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 36:50 ... "that you're either cynical or stupid." And in effect, that was, that was a shot at me and you. It wasn't a shot at anybody else because they don't have to talk to other people. You know what I mean? Like, I love Eric and Bret Weinstein. They don't-

Joe Rogan 37:00 Is that what she said? This, you're-

Dave Rubin 37:01 Yeah. The line is-

Joe Rogan 37:02 ... you're cynical or stupid?

Dave Rubin 37:02 We can probably find the line. But it was that-

Joe Rogan 37:04 Hmm.

Dave Rubin 37:04 ... you have t- ... I think it was you'd have to be cynical or stupid.

Joe Rogan 37:06 I would argue that. I mean, I would argu- argue against that because I don't think you have to be either cynical or stupid. You just have to be a person talking to someone. Just because you're talking to someone doesn't mean you agree with them.

Dave Rubin 37:15 Yeah, you-

Joe Rogan 37:15 This idea of giving someone a platform. Like, I'm gonna have Ted Nugent on the podcast.

Dave Rubin 37:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:19 Right? And uh-

Dave Rubin 37:20 You obviously endorse everything he's ever said.

Joe Rogan 37:21 This is ... That's what you're saying, right?

Dave Rubin 37:22 Yeah. There you go.

Joe Rogan 37:22 If you have one, th- that's, that's the only way to look at it.

Dave Rubin 37:24 Sorry, Rogan. That's it.

Joe Rogan 37:26 How come you can't just talk to the guy and find out ... Like, like Candace Owens. I don't agree with everything Candace Owens says.

Dave Rubin 37:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:31 I don't agree with a lot of it.

Dave Rubin 37:32 I watched it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:33 And this is nothing wrong with having a conversation like that. In fact, it's illuminating. What do you got here?

Dave Rubin 37:38 ... let's find the-

Joe Rogan 37:38 What are you pulling up?

Dave Rubin 37:39 ... line, this is from the-

Joe Rogan 37:40 Oh, here we go.

Dave Rubin 37:40 ... The Times piece, uh-

Joe Rogan 37:41 Okay, um, it says, "It seems-"

Dave Rubin 37:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:43 ... "to me that if you are willing to sit across from an Alex Jones or Mike Cernovich and take them seriously, there's a high probability that you're either cynical or stupid."

Dave Rubin 37:51 Now, now-

Joe Rogan 37:51 "If there's a reason for shorting the IDW, it's the inability of certain members to see this as a fatal error." Well-

Dave Rubin 37:57 So that's, that's Rogan and Rubin. That's-

Joe Rogan 37:59 But here's the thing.

Dave Rubin 37:59 ... that's what that's saying, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:00 Well, I get it. Um, I'm, um... There's definitely some things you can criticize about me.

Dave Rubin 38:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:05 But, um-

Dave Rubin 38:06 I have the list right here.

Joe Rogan 38:06 But here's the thing, if you're saying that I'm taking him seriously, I got Alex high and drunk-

Dave Rubin 38:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:13 ... and he started talking about inter-dimensional child molesters. Like, if anything, it showed people who he really is.

Dave Rubin 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 Like, I've known the guy forever. I've partied with that dude. I've had him come to my comedy shows, we've gotten fucked up and ran around the town and went to bars together. Back before everybody knew who he was too-

Dave Rubin 38:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:30 ... we could go places. He's a fun guy. I don't believe everything he believes. I think he's silly in a lot of ways. But I like a lot of people that I don't agree with. I don't have to agree with them. I didn't know about his Sandy Hook denial. If I did, it would've been the first thing I pressed him on.

Dave Rubin 38:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Uh, when I talked to him, I wanted to do it with my crazy friend Eddie Bravo 'cause he believes every fucking conspiracy theory.

Dave Rubin 38:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:53 And I wanted to get him with Alex together. And it was the clusterfuck that I hoped it would be.

Dave Rubin 38:58 It, it was. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:59 But the good thing about it is, it showed people who Alex really is.

Dave Rubin 39:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:02 It showed a side of him that you just don't get from his InfoWars show. You get to see him high and laughing and drunk and pounding whiskey and fucking around. And people are like, "Oh, I can see why you like that guy."

Dave Rubin 39:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:15 "I can see why he's fun." We had a good time together.

Dave Rubin 39:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:18 It doesn't mean I endorse his opinions on things and the idea that this is only red or white, that it is one or zero, it's binary. That's ridiculous.

Dave Rubin 39:26 Yeah. I just-

Joe Rogan 39:26 I think that's ridiculous.

Dave Rubin 39:27 I, I just didn't... Those two choices of adjectives I just thought were slightly r-... Like, you could say-

Joe Rogan 39:31 She's defending her position.

Dave Rubin 39:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 I think, I think she's doing a smart thing because she's a writer for The New York Times. I do have a lot of ridiculous people on, and you have had ridiculous people on too.

Dave Rubin 39:40 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 39:41 So, what she's saying makes sense, if you take them seriously. But she left that caveat, if you take them seriously.

Dave Rubin 39:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:46 I do not take Alex Jones' opinion on inter-dimensional child molesters seriously.

Dave Rubin 39:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:51 I don't. His opinion on, "I only smoke pot once a year 'cause, to, to test to see what George Soros has done with the marijuana."

Dave Rubin 39:57 Right. Sounds good.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Like George Soros is giving the marijuana fucking dosage recommendations. Like, that's ridiculous.

Dave Rubin 40:02 I'm pretty sure Roseanne told me that too, but, uh...

Joe Rogan 40:04 Yeah. Well, she thinks... That's another thing. I don't know what to do with her now. She thinks... Sh- she apologized for that, but she said George Soros was a Nazi or something.

Dave Rubin 40:12 Yeah, no, I, I saw the apology.

Joe Rogan 40:14 And you know he was captured, he was captured by the Nazis. I mean, he was like... (sighs)

Dave Rubin 40:18 Well, anyway, this, this gate-

Joe Rogan 40:20 Conspiracies.

Dave Rubin 40:20 Yeah, this gatekeeping thing. I, I just think it's, it's interesting because-

Joe Rogan 40:24 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 40:24 ... if we're gonna do what we do well, at whatever level we do it, it's like, we're gonna have to talk to people that people don't like. And, and-

Joe Rogan 40:30 Listen-

Dave Rubin 40:31 Look, Larry King, and this is the one thing I always say. It's like, Larry King in the, in his heyday. Think of the prime Larry King, right?

Joe Rogan 40:36 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 40:37 So 1991 CNN Primetime.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 40:40 He could have, you know, uh, the OJ Simpson lawyers on on Monday. He could have the cast of-

Joe Rogan 40:45 Sure.

Dave Rubin 40:45 ... Seinfeld on Tuesday. He could have a magician on Wednesday. He could have Lucille Ball, if she was still alive, on Thursday. And then, you know, George, uh, Secretary of State or something. So, no one thought he endorsed all of those ideas-

Joe Rogan 40:58 Right.

Dave Rubin 40:58 ... or was friends with all of those people. But I think somehow now, because, because this feels like your home, mine is actually in my home.

Joe Rogan 41:06 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 41:06 The way we are f-... We're different, we're friendlier. We're not sitting here with note cards and with IFBs and-

Joe Rogan 41:12 Right.

Dave Rubin 41:12 ... it doesn't feel all produced and planned and all that. Even though we- I think we both do a hell of a fucking professional show that I think we're both really proud of. Um, I think because of that, they think, "Ah, now you're seeing the real them," or so- or something like that. Like it's, it's something down that road.

Joe Rogan 41:28 I just think they're looking for shit to complain about.

Dave Rubin 41:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:30 Listen-

Dave Rubin 41:30 That might be the easiest way.

Joe Rogan 41:31 ... one of the reasons why I decided to do a podcast in the first place is 'cause I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted. I wanted to be able to talk to my friends, have a good time, fuck around. Along the line, it became something different. And along the line, it became not just talking to my friends, it became talking to people that are famous or interesting people or professors or writers or whoever it is.

Dave Rubin 41:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:52 And I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want.

Dave Rubin 41:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:53 And that's why I'm doing this. I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want. If I wanna talk to... And if you don't like who I'm talking to, it's super simple, you just don't listen to that episode. And you go, "Oh, Rogan, you're alt-right now. All you have is alt-right people. You think you're balanced now because you have Abby Martin on once a year?"

Dave Rubin 42:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:08 Like, I just think... I talk to people, you know? I, I talk to a lot of people. There's... I like talking to people. I like talking to people I agree with, and I occasionally talk to people I disagree with and I get something out of that too.

Dave Rubin 42:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:20 And-

Dave Rubin 42:21 How, how aware are you of the thing that you just said there? That, like, you did exactly what you set out to do. I don't know that you fully set out to do it this way, but you did it. Like, this thing that you have created is so it. It is so what you wanted to do, whether you un-... Fully got it or not, but, like, you created it. It's, it's awesome. Like, I'm, I'm doing it at a, I think a lower level than you are, but I'm very aware of that. That, like, I somehow... I hated what the system was offering and I was like, "I gotta do something that feels right for me." And I somehow-

Joe Rogan 42:49 Well, I came at it from a different place.

Dave Rubin 42:51 ... did it.

Joe Rogan 42:51 'Cause I didn't come at it from a place like, "I need a gig." I came at it from a place like, "Eh, it'll be fun."

Dave Rubin 42:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:56 "Fuck around."

Dave Rubin 42:57 Right, you were already on the other side.

Joe Rogan 42:58 I was doing million different things.

Dave Rubin 42:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:59 I mean, I was already a professional stand-up.

Dave Rubin 43:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:01 I was already, uh, the commentator for the UFC. So, this wasn't like... When I came... I mean, I did it for years for zero money.

Dave Rubin 43:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:08 For years. Because I just did it for fun. Like, literally for fun. Do it once a week, have fun, sit down, have some comics over. We'd smoke some pot, talk some shit, have a p- a couple of laughs. And then next thing you know, I've got Graham Hancock on. And, uh, you know, next thing you know, I've got Bourdain on. And I've got, you know, this professor and this author and then, and then it got weirder and weirder. But it just-

Dave Rubin 43:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:31 To me, it's just what's interesting.

Dave Rubin 43:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Talk to people that... And, and I've never looked at it like, um...... like, like there's anything I have to do.

Dave Rubin 43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:41 I've never looked at it like that. I, I was just always like, "Well, this would be cool. Oh, that guy sounds cool, lemme get him."

Dave Rubin 43:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Like, "This guy might be interesting. Oh, I'd like to talk to that dude. I wanna find out about sleep. I wanna find out about exercise. I wanna find out about diet. And I wanna find out about..." Like, what, how the fuck this finances really work? I wanna talk to Peter Schiff. Tell me how this works.

Dave Rubin 43:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:59 How do you, what, what, what do you do? How do you, how are you making your money? Like, what, uh, what the fuck is going on in Puerto Rico? Uh, this, this... I love talking to people, man. I, I, it's a fascinating thing to, to, to pick the brain uninterrupted, with n- n- no distractions, to sit down and talk to someone for hours at a time. You learn a lot about yourself. You learn conversa-... I'm much better, much better at talking to people and being sensitive and-

Dave Rubin 44:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:24 ... open-minded and being considerate and, and listening. And that's a big thing, like, listening and communicating with people, not just waiting for my time to talk.

Dave Rubin 44:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:33 But communicating with people. It's like, I feel like conversation is a lost art with a lot of folks. And I've gotten way, way better at it over the, whatever, many years, nine years? Nine years of doing this show.

Dave Rubin 44:47 Yeah. I'm with ya.

Joe Rogan 44:48 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 44:48 I mean, I hear ya. All I... I mean, I said at the beginning, but I just am doing what I think is right.

Joe Rogan 44:52 Yeah, it's fun-

Dave Rubin 44:53 Like-

Joe Rogan 44:53 ... too.

Dave Rubin 44:53 ... that's it.

Joe Rogan 44:53 It's fun.

Dave Rubin 44:54 That's why-

Joe Rogan 44:54 I like it.

Dave Rubin 44:55 ... when I see, like, the barrage of hate that I'll get online for this or that or just, you know, it's the same thing. It's just these people that just endlessly wanna hate on everything and all that.

Joe Rogan 45:03 It's too much noise.

Dave Rubin 45:03 And I'm always, like, I'm always like, if you're spending all day long hating on me, like, if you think what I'm doing-

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Dave Rubin 45:08 ... is the real problem here... You know what I mean? Like, let's say I'm wrong on everything.

Joe Rogan 45:11 Right.

Dave Rubin 45:11 Let's say everything I said for the first 10 minutes about politics is wrong and we should have strong federal government and identity politics. Like, even if that is (laughs) , that's how it, it really is, am I really the biggest problem here, that people are all day long devoting Twitter accounts, people that make accounts all day wrong, "Fuck Dave Rubin. Dave Rubin sucks." It's like, what are you doing?

Joe Rogan 45:28 Is that going on all the time?

Dave Rubin 45:29 Yeah. All the time.

Joe Rogan 45:30 Well, here's the thing.

Dave Rubin 45:30 It's like, go get laid.

Joe Rogan 45:31 If that's-

Dave Rubin 45:31 Do people get laid anymore?

Joe Rogan 45:33 You shouldn't know that that's happening. That's the, part of the problem is you're, you're sort of indulging it-

Dave Rubin 45:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:37 ... by paying attention to it. There's just too many people out there, Dave.

Dave Rubin 45:39 I'm paying way less attention. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:41 That's good.

Dave Rubin 45:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:42 You can't pay attention at all.

Dave Rubin 45:43 I, dude, I was in a sensory deprivation tank just two, three days ago-

Joe Rogan 45:47 Yes.

Dave Rubin 45:47 ... thanks to you. I've been doing it more.

Joe Rogan 45:49 Good.

Dave Rubin 45:49 I was just in one of these infrared saunas. I'm doing-

Joe Rogan 45:51 Yes.

Dave Rubin 45:51 ... you know, I'm doing all my Augusts off the grid. I did it last August, just literally nothing. I locked my phone in a safe.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Really?

Dave Rubin 45:57 Locked my phone in a safe for 30 days.

Joe Rogan 46:00 Do you call it anything?

Dave Rubin 46:00 No, no TV, no nothing. Uh-

Joe Rogan 46:03 Off the Grid August?

Dave Rubin 46:04 We had some Rubin something, Rubin-esque something or other.

Joe Rogan 46:06 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 46:07 Yeah, Off the Grid August, something like that, but I'm gonna do it for now on. I'm doing that every August.

Joe Rogan 46:11 Really?

Dave Rubin 46:11 Yeah. I am completely shutting down. Uh, I'm, I'm working on this book that I started last August and then (laughs) , and then of course, the year gets so crazy that I have to pick it up again in August. I've been writing it now while I'm on the road.

Joe Rogan 46:21 What's the book about?

Dave Rubin 46:23 I mean, I don't wanna go too far into it, but in effect, it's when I did that PragerU video about why I left the Left. That's sort of the, the genesis of it, of sort of giving people a little bit of a roadmap to-

Joe Rogan 46:31 What is a PragerU video? I'm not aware of it.

Dave Rubin 46:33 So, so you're, you're familiar with PragerU, right?

Joe Rogan 46:35 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 46:35 Um-

Joe Rogan 46:35 With Dennis Prager.

Dave Rubin 46:36 Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 46:37 He's a super conservative fella.

Dave Rubin 46:38 Yeah, so he does... He has this, you know, sort of online university where they do these five-minute cartoon videos on, on different ideas-

Joe Rogan 46:45 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 46:45 ... so they'll do on economics and foreign policy and race-

Joe Rogan 46:48 Right.

Dave Rubin 46:48 ... and religion-

Joe Rogan 46:48 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 46:48 ... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so I did one, it was, uh, about a year and a half ago, February of last year, called... Uh, well, I had actually never said the phrase "why I left the Left", but I just talked about my frustrations with the Left and why I believe in freedom and in liberty. They titled it Why I Left the Left.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Hmm, of course.

Dave Rubin 47:06 And actually, the first, the first half hour when it dropped, I was pissed because I was like, "Man, did they just, like, blow my gig?" Like, I really felt at that time, I feel a little differently now, that I was trying to fix the Left from within, or at least have conversations as someone that was one of these people. Like, that's why-

Joe Rogan 47:24 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 47:24 ... I was focusing on the Left. The, all these liberals were, were my people. This is the thing that I grew up and that I always believed in. So, the fact that they did that first half hour, I was like, "Fuck." Like, "Did, did I just get booted out?" And then quickly, I realized that video went, went so viral, it's their number one viewed video on YouTube, that I was like, "You know what? I have to just kind of embrace this." And, and again, it goes back to the labels thing. It doesn't really matter whether you left the Left or whether you're a libertarian or-

Joe Rogan 47:49 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 47:49 ... a classical liberal, the rest of it. Um, but anyway, that's the, the genesis of the book, of like, just how do you escape this sort of monolithic, totalitarian thinking? And how do you just be whoever you are? And how does that, how does being an individual basically lead you to being happy? Because I think that's actually the only way that you can be happy. I think that that's it. You have to... You know, it's the most cliche thing ever. It's what Peterson's telling these people every night that thousands and thousands and thousands of people are showing up every night, and he talks about the individual. He talks about stand up straight, you know, clean your room. Like, these things all sound silly at some level, and, um, the more that I'm with the guy, it's like, he is giving these people something that has just been so lost.

Joe Rogan 48:34 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 48:34 Like, so absolutely lost. People think you can just be pathetic, blame the system, everything else is somebody else's fault. You should be given shit. All of this stuff, and it's like, what ev-... Think about every movie, any movie, whatever your 10 favorite movies are. Is it about a guy who just was like, "Oh, the world sucks and what the fuck am I gonna do?" And it's somebody, it's somebody else's fault. No. Every great movie, whatever your... A guy's got a problem.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 48:58 And guess what he does? Solves the problem.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 49:00 And that's what you're supposed to do. This is an adventure, this, this life.

Joe Rogan 49:04 But when you mean the individual, like being an individual is the only way to be happy, h- what do you mean by that?

Dave Rubin 49:09 That, well, first off that we should only be judged as individuals.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Right.

Dave Rubin 49:12 And that's it. So, remove all the immutable characteristics. I'm gay. Big damn whoop. You got any specific questions for me on that? Like-

Joe Rogan 49:18 Big damn whoop. (laughs)

Dave Rubin 49:21 (laughs) That was that. Big damn whoop. But, but, like, you know, like that n- just saying that means-

Joe Rogan 49:26 Right.

Dave Rubin 49:26 ... nothing other than you can figure out-

Joe Rogan 49:29 Right.

Dave Rubin 49:29 ... "Uh..."... you know, who I sleep with, right?

Joe Rogan 49:31 Right.

Dave Rubin 49:31 Okay. That- that's it. All we can do is judge people as individuals, and you have to just figure out what is right for you. So, for all the people that I disagree with that are sort of like big government lefties and blah, blah, and I get why that you n- maybe need a little more of that if you live in a big city where you might need more noise regulations than if you lived in the freaking... if you live in the middle of Idaho on a farm or whatever. It's like if that's the life that you wanna live, then fight for that. But what we're doing now is this collectivist craziness is causing people to be unable to think clearly. So, like Huffington Post yesterday wrote a thing about how you have to choose between being for gay people, or it said, I think it was for queer people or for Chick-fil-A. Now I happen to be the-

Joe Rogan 50:11 Oh, is this because of Jack?

Dave Rubin 50:12 Yeah. 'Cause Jack-

Joe Rogan 50:13 Jack got in trouble.

Dave Rubin 50:14 ... retracted his tweet about Chick-fil-A and it's like-

Joe Rogan 50:16 Did he have a tweet about Chick-fil-A?

Dave Rubin 50:18 He, yeah, 'cause he tweeted that he, he showed like a r- a digital receipt that he bought Chick-fil-A and then Soledad O'Brien was like, "You tweeted that on Gay Pride Month."

Joe Rogan 50:26 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 50:26 And it's like this endless-

Joe Rogan 50:28 But why would he tweet a f- a, uh, Chick-fil-A receipt?

Dave Rubin 50:31 Who the hell knows? The guy likes Chick-fil-A. Who cares?

Joe Rogan 50:34 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 50:34 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 50:35 Not allowed to like it.

Dave Rubin 50:36 Yeah, you better not like Chick-fil-A 'cause that means that-

Joe Rogan 50:38 Do you eat Chick-fil-A, Dave? Do you?

Dave Rubin 50:39 Yes, I eat Chick-fil-A. I took a picture (laughs) yesterday.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Mm.

Dave Rubin 50:41 There was a Chick-fil-A next door to, uh, to the theater we were at. I took a picture of Chick-fil-A there and I tweeted out the thing. And it's like I like chicken sandwiches.

Joe Rogan 50:50 Mm.

Dave Rubin 50:50 Every time I've gone into a Chick-fil-A the people are, "Go into... Find me one fast food restaurant is that- so that-"

Joe Rogan 50:55 What have you got here?

Dave Rubin 50:56 So that's what he did.

Joe Rogan 50:56 What's the tweet? Oh, it's the Cash App. Yeah. (laughs) That's one of our sponsors. Your 10% boost at Chick-fil-A was applied.

Dave Rubin 51:04 There you go.

Joe Rogan 51:04 You were charged $28.43. Chick-fil-A. Ah-ha.

Dave Rubin 51:08 And he dared-

Joe Rogan 51:09 And he wrote-

Dave Rubin 51:09 ... save 10% on Gay Pride Month?

Joe Rogan 51:11 He wrote, "Boost," and then he tagged Chick-fil-A.

Dave Rubin 51:14 Hmm. And Soledad O'Brien showed who's... showed him who's boss. (laughs) But that's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 51:20 Wow.

Dave Rubin 51:20 That that sort of, this endless guilting and, and, you know, "You do this, so you're evil," it- it's ruining the fabric of society. It really is.

Joe Rogan 51:30 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 51:30 Eat chicken if you like chicken. Don't eat it if you don't like it. But that's what individualism is about. If you wanna make the choice, if you think that whatever Chick-fil-A is doing to gay people-

Joe Rogan 51:39 Right.

Dave Rubin 51:39 ... whatever they're secretly doing to gay people, if you think that's so evil, even though, by the way, during the Pulse Nightclub shooting at the gay club in Florida when 51 people were killed, they gave free food to everybody. Uh, but if you think they hate gay people that much, then don't shop there. But you don't have to harangue everybody else into doing everything that you want them to do.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Mm.

Dave Rubin 51:58 That's actually the reverse of freedom.

Joe Rogan 52:00 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 52:00 Live, live and let live. That, that's what I believe.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Well, I, I could see people, if they're saying that Chick-fil-A is a homophobic institution, that they... you shouldn't endorse Chick-fil-A s- particularly if you're a gay man.

Dave Rubin 52:11 But what does that mean?

Joe Rogan 52:11 And, and Jack-

Dave Rubin 52:12 I go into Ch- I go into Chick-fil-A-

Joe Rogan 52:13 Is Jack gay?

Dave Rubin 52:14 Not that I know of.

Joe Rogan 52:16 Okay. So it's not that.

Dave Rubin 52:18 (laughs) That, that seemed weird. No, I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 52:19 I don't know. I don't know either.

Dave Rubin 52:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:20 I don't know either. I'm just, uh... But he clearly is an influencer, and I think that the Cash App, if I had to guess, because they sponsor this podcast, they're very active in sponsoring podcasts, they probably have some sort of an endorsement deal with him.

Dave Rubin 52:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:36 Which is why he did that. So it was a financial thing for the Cash App, if I had to guess.

Dave Rubin 52:40 Okay, so, uh, all right, so we don't know about that specifically. But if they were paying him-

Joe Rogan 52:44 Right.

Dave Rubin 52:44 ... to do it, I mean, that's for him to... That's, I mean, again-

Joe Rogan 52:46 Right.

Dave Rubin 52:46 ... that's for him as an individual to decide, "I am going to accept-"

Joe Rogan 52:49 When's Gay Pride Month? Is it this month?

Dave Rubin 52:50 It's this month. This is the gayest month there is.

Joe Rogan 52:52 Damn.

Dave Rubin 52:53 And I'm here with you.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Hello.

Dave Rubin 52:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:55 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 52:55 This is the gayest thing I'm gonna do all month.

Joe Rogan 52:57 June. All right.

Dave Rubin 52:58 Yeah, June. It's very gay.

Joe Rogan 52:59 Um-

Dave Rubin 52:59 But that's what I'm saying, like...

Joe Rogan 53:00 But how many people are upset? How many people?

Dave Rubin 53:03 But, but it goes exactly to where we started with this whole thing.

Joe Rogan 53:06 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 53:06 There is this loud group of people, and most of them have some sort of odd influence in media. They're all of these blue check, BuzzFeed, 4,000 Twitter follower people-

Joe Rogan 53:15 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 53:15 ... that retweet all of the articles of the people like them at Salon and Vox and BuzzFeed and da, da, da.

Joe Rogan 53:20 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 53:20 And they make it seem like we're all hysterical, crazy people. And I simply don't believe that. I believe that most people, I would say the vast majority of people probably, I mean, I think it's something crazy like 80% of people I think are good, decent people who just want people to live. They want you can fuck who you wanna fuck, you can smoke what you wanna smoke. You can't do it on my property, you can't take what's mine, you can't force me to, uh, bake a cake or do any of those things.

Joe Rogan 53:45 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 53:45 But you can a- allow people to live as they see fit. I think that's what most people are. And that's why there's such a pushback. That's the answer to the Peterson thing. Peterson said, "I'm not gonna use pronouns that the government forces me to use." That's all, that's what put him on the map.

Joe Rogan 53:59 Well, it's also there, I mean, there's so many of them. They, they got so silly with that, that it, it, it made sense that someone was pushing back. There's 78 different gender pronouns.

Dave Rubin 54:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:08 And you're obviously dealing with people that are being silly.

Dave Rubin 54:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:11 This is not like there's like... Remember when-

Dave Rubin 54:12 But it's not just people being silly.

Joe Rogan 54:13 Bro, you remember when Ms. came along? There was Miss and there was Mrs. and Ladies-

Dave Rubin 54:17 (laughs) And when was that? What year was that?

Joe Rogan 54:19 I don't know. I was a kid. I remember being super confused. I'm like, "They made a new thing?" You know, what's the matter? He's the CEO of that company too. Who is? Jack. Yeah. Of Cash App.

Dave Rubin 54:28 Oh, he's the CEO of Cash App too.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Oh. So he's advertising his company.

Dave Rubin 54:32 Oh.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Which should be- Oh, that makes total sense. Yeah. That makes total sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Dave Rubin 54:36 Well.

Joe Rogan 54:37 Oh, there you go.

Dave Rubin 54:37 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Um, I just think that... Well, that's a tricky one.

Dave Rubin 54:42 Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 54:43 That's, that's different.

Dave Rubin 54:44 Well, look, he's a guy promoting something on one of the things that he owns.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 54:47 And so that's it.

Joe Rogan 54:48 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 54:48 All right, so he's a guy.

Joe Rogan 54:49 But he's doing it on Gay Pride Month. Oh.

Dave Rubin 54:51 Who cares? I mean...

Joe Rogan 54:53 Mm.

Dave Rubin 54:54 Really? Like, it just... So w- so what is it that they... So I guess at one point they were against gay marriage, and maybe they still are now. Who knows what every c- think of all the products.

Joe Rogan 55:03 Wasn't that the late CEO? Isn't the CEO dead? I think the CEO that was like super Christian is dead.

Dave Rubin 55:07 Yeah, I think it, I think it is the, the original guy and he's dead.

Joe Rogan 55:10 I think they honor his wishes though and keep it closed on Sunday still.

Dave Rubin 55:13 You know what? Every time I've-

Joe Rogan 55:14 Which is stupid as fuck, 'cause I want a chicken sandwich on Sunday.

Dave Rubin 55:16 Yeah. So somebody should be opening the...

Joe Rogan 55:19 (laughs)

Dave Rubin 55:20 Somebody should be opening the Sunday chicken sandwich-

Joe Rogan 55:22 But not in June.

Dave Rubin 55:23 ... pro-gay-

Joe Rogan 55:24 Not in June.

Dave Rubin 55:24 Not in June. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:25 Um, solidarity to my gay brothers and sisters.

Dave Rubin 55:27 It's all so stupid. Eat a sandwich if you want a sandwich. Don't... Every time I've gone into Chick-fil-A, when you've gone into Chick-fil-A, are they nice or not? Yes or no?

Joe Rogan 55:34 I've only been there literally twice.

Dave Rubin 55:36 And are they nice?

Joe Rogan 55:37 I don't remember.

Dave Rubin 55:38 They're friendly.

Joe Rogan 55:38 Nobody yelled at me.

Dave Rubin 55:39 They're friendly. They don't look at you and go-

Joe Rogan 55:41 They don't look at you and go, "I think everything's okay."

Dave Rubin 55:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:43 Yeah. I don't know, man.I just don't think that, uh, I, I don't think there's that much outrage. I think there's a business in outrage though. And there's certainly a business in a lot of people that write these articles. And the, the, the Jordan Peterson thing has been very illuminating to me, because I've watched them misrepresent his positions on so many different things and call him so many horrible names, transphobic, racist, alt-right, all these different things. And, and do so with, you know, with no justification or rationalization. Like, you look at the actual article and they don't, they don't post to what he actually said. It's like that woman in the, uh, the Monk debates. What was it called?

Dave Rubin 56:20 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:20 What was it called?

Dave Rubin 56:21 The Monk debate, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Yeah. Um, whoever that woman was. Uh-

Dave Rubin 56:24 Um, Goldberg, I think. Uh-

Joe Rogan 56:25 Whatever her name is.

Dave Rubin 56:26 It was, it was her and Eric, uh, Tyson.

Joe Rogan 56:29 Yeah, when she said-

Dave Rubin 56:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:30 ... you know, that he doesn't want her to wear ... he doesn't think she should be able to wear makeup at work. And he's like, "I never said that."

Dave Rubin 56:35 Never said that.

Joe Rogan 56:35 She goes, "Well, you can Google it." Well, we can Google it.

Dave Rubin 56:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:38 We can Google it. We can find out you made me Google something that you were wrong about.

Dave Rubin 56:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:42 That's, that's upsetting to me.

Dave Rubin 56:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:44 I don't want you to do that. You know, that bothers me more than anything. That is dishonest. It's 100% dishonest. She knew he did not say that. They were ... He was having an intellectual exercise-

Dave Rubin 56:56 Yep.

Joe Rogan 56:56 ... with an interviewer. And it's ... I think one of the things that's gotten him into trouble is his openness to discuss things with question marks.

Dave Rubin 57:03 With just bad e-

Joe Rogan 57:04 Like, I don't ... Question marks. I don't know.

Dave Rubin 57:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:06 I don't know if we can work together. We've only been doing it for 40 years. I don't know. Why do women wear makeup in the workplace? Why do women wear short skirts and high heels? Why do they? I don't think he's saying you can't do that or you shouldn't be able to do that. He's saying why.

Dave Rubin 57:21 He's saying that there's obvious realities. When you turn on CNN, why is it that Jake Tapper, Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, and the rest of the men are all in suits? They dress exactly the same.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 57:30 Anderson's are a little more tailored, but-

Joe Rogan 57:32 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 57:32 ... everybody dresses like that. What do the women all wear? Every single woman.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Dresses.

Dave Rubin 57:36 They all wear dresses with cutoff sleeves.

Joe Rogan 57:38 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 57:39 That ... Right?

Joe Rogan 57:39 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 57:39 They're all sprayed tan. They all have-

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yep.

Dave Rubin 57:41 ... gorgeous hair, lipstick, blah, blah, blah. Why isn't Wolf Blitzer walking in there with a, with that-

Joe Rogan 57:45 Dude, I have a-

Dave Rubin 57:45 ... with a cutoff. ... bit on my new-

Joe Rogan 57:46 I mean, I don't know what that arm would look like. ... Netflix special. I have a whole bit about it.

Dave Rubin 57:50 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 57:50 About women on Fox News versus men on Fox News watching it with the sound off, smoking pot-

Dave Rubin 57:55 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:55 ... treating it like it's a ... some sort of a wildlife show.

Dave Rubin 57:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:58 Like, it, it's something very strange. It's a weird cultural dance that we're doing.

Dave Rubin 58:01 Right. So, if ... So the idea that Jordan's talking about this-

Joe Rogan 58:04 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 58:04 ... that men and women dress differently, women put on lipstick to look attractive. Why do you work out, Joe Rogan?

Joe Rogan 58:11 Uh, because I don't kill people.

Dave Rubin 58:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:13 I don't want to-

Dave Rubin 58:13 All right.

Joe Rogan 58:13 I don't want to be angry.

Dave Rubin 58:14 So number one, so you don't kill people, but number two, you wanna look good. You wanna feel good. You wanna be in a body that is-

Joe Rogan 58:19 Sure.

Dave Rubin 58:20 ... uh, you want to work well.

Joe Rogan 58:20 You want to look good for your wife and blah, blah, blah, and you want to live long. Right.

Dave Rubin 58:23 Like, the ... To deny these realities all the time, and to think that that's because of your toxic masculinity-

Joe Rogan 58:29 Mm.

Dave Rubin 58:29 ... and all of this nonsense, I agree that it is a loud minority, but what I, what ... I think maybe where we're having a little difference is that I think this thing has spread in a way, it is so easy to believe this nonsense, this abject drivel, that it is in- it is infecting young people at an alarming rate. But, by the way, there's a lot of hopeful signs on this, because now they're doing all these studies that the generation right after millennials, so the kids that are like, you know, like 15 now, that they're actually more conservative now, because they see all this as absolute hysteria. So I think there is ... We are getting like a little bit of a rubber band effect on this thing, and I think things are shifting into normalcy.

Joe Rogan 59:06 To-

Dave Rubin 59:06 And that's why people are listening to your show and listening to Sam's podcast and everything else.

Joe Rogan 59:10 I think there's an issue with people commenting on things that other people were saying, and just sort of jumping in and not having the other person there to discuss these subjects with. Uh, particularly like why do women wear makeup at work? Why do women, uh, dress the way they dress? I think if you sat ... if you were sitting down with Jordan talking about it, he's willing to engage in these subjects with a very, very b- broad canvas. I mean-

Dave Rubin 59:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... he's w- he's willing to look at all the various aspects of them, because as a legitimate intellectual, that's what he's doing. It's an intellectual exercise in discussion of cultural norms. Like, why do women wear these shoes where you can see their toes-

Dave Rubin 59:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:53 ... in the, in the workplace? Whereas if a guy showed up with flip-flops on, you'd be like, "Mike, the fuck?"

Dave Rubin 59:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:58 "We're at work here."

Dave Rubin 59:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:59 "Get out of here with this bullshit outfit."

Dave Rubin 1:00:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 "Go put on some goddamn dress shoes."

Dave Rubin 1:00:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 "We're in the office." You know, the ... It is strange that women wear very little clothes in comparison to the way men do on these shows.

Dave Rubin 1:00:10 S-

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 And I don't think there's anything wrong with the discussion. The problem is framing it as if he's saying you shouldn't be able to. He's ... If, if someone got on TV and said, "You shouldn't be able to wear makeup at work. You shouldn't be able to dress like that," that would be a problem.

Dave Rubin 1:00:25 So think about what these guys are doing in effect. So right ... So you're saying that Jordan's taking basically a, uh, a decent but potentially confusing position, but it's, but it's basically a right decision-

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 Yes.

Dave Rubin 1:00:37 ... of let's have a conversation. So when they write all these hit pieces, and why do they do it? Because they can't get any ... You know, they just did- released this study about journalists and they're basically all paid like 45 grand a year, and they're alcoholics, you know, just broadly speaking.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 1:00:49 And they just want all these clicks. They want their jobs, and they realize that these websites that are faking as journalists, uh, faking as places of journalism, that they're just trying to hold onto their jobs as long as they can. But if you're one of these people, what's a great way to s- keep your job? Oh, there's a guy out here who's sold over a million copies of his book, who's on tour selling out Beacon Theater and blah, blah, blah all over the world. I'm gonna write a hit piece on him-

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Mm-hmm.

Dave Rubin 1:01:10 ... 'cause guess what? That's gonna drive a hell of a lot more traffic than writing something, something honest.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Yeah.

Dave Rubin 1:01:15 So the ... That's part of the game. And, you know, he ... I've discussed this many times, including on stage with him. Why does he keep retweeting the articles? His belief is, "Well, I'm still here. I'm still here. I have exposed them and I'm still here, and