Joe Rogan Experience #1155 - Henry Rollins

1. 0:01 – 0:19

   The “Henry And” concept: pairing opposites for a travel mini-series

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Here we go. Four, three, two... Henry Rollins, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, fella?

   2. HRHenry Rollins0:08

      I'm better now, being here with you.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      I'm better now that you're here.

   4. HRHenry Rollins0:11

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      We were just talking about a show that you got you and Ted Nugent, apparently... Someone, did someone... Did you pitch it? Who pitched the show?

2. 0:19 – 5:38

   Ted Nugent: music hero, political lightning rod

   1. HRHenry Rollins0:19

      Um, it was an idea that, uh, my manager, Heidi and I came up with. Well, mostly Heidi. It was like, it was called basically Henry And. Uh, you put me and someone I might have some disagreements with, or a few agreements with, and we just go somewhere and we weigh in with a camera following us. And we're thinking, "W- what... It'll be like a six-part miniseries." Like, you know, f-... Me and plus six interesting people. And one of the names that came up was Ted Nugent because I, uh, y- I'm a fan of his music. I think he's one of the best guitar players I've ever seen. Yet, he and I would m-... Probably disagree on, uh, one or a few topics. And so we actually pickes- pitched it to Ted, who said he loved the idea, but he said, "I gotta go on... I'm busy with..." He had a d- a ton of tour dates, so I think he's on now. But he said, "I wanna talk to Henry to thank him for thinking of me." Okay. And so Ted called, like, on my phone in the office. I guess he got my number from the powers that be. (laughs) And suddenly, it's, it's Ted on my phone. I'm at my desk like, "Okay, this is surreal."

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:29

      (laughs)

   3. HRHenry Rollins1:29

      And we talked for a few minutes and y- he said, uh, you know, like, "What? You think I'm a bad guy?" I'm like, "N- no. I... D- you... Uh, just some of the things you say, I just like... I... It kind of (laughs) takes my breath away." And then we quickly got on the topic of music. He said, "You like all that old Detroit music." I go, "Yeah, man. I mean, y- you, Mitch Ryder, The Stooges, MC5. I mean, it's kind of the best... It's some of the best music I've ever heard." I mean, as far... And I, I asked him, I go, "What is it? Is it Something in the Water? What is it with you Michigan guys and guitar tone? Like, no one gets tone like you, uh, Ron Ashton, Stooges, uh, Fred "Sonic" Smith, MC5." I go, "You guys, I mean, you're so good." And he said, "You gotta... We gotta hang out sometime and we'll just talk about music." I went, "I'll do that with you. So I'll be taking notes." And he was just telling me, you know, like, "Yeah, I used to hang out at the MC5 house and go see The Stooges." And I'm like, "You're killing me 'cause this is like..." You know, I... That would have been heaven for me to see those bands, like back in 1969 or whatever.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:38

      Did you... When did you know him? Did you know him back in the day or did you only speak to him recently?

   5. HRHenry Rollins2:42

      No, a- a- as, as a punter, I would go see him, like in high school in the 1870s. You know, Carter Administration.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:47

      (laughs)

   7. HRHenry Rollins2:47

      I'd go see him at play in my local arena in Washington, DC, in a place called The Capital Center in Largo, Maryland. And he was as good as rock and roll gets. I mean, it was... I saw the, the Double Live Gonzo lineup and like, forget it. It was like two and a half hours of just getting beat up by music. It was fantastic. And to this day, uh, it's still a high watermark as far as gigs. And in the '90s, I met him on Politically Incorrect, Bill Maher. And I said, "Hey man, I'm a big fan." And he gave me a bow hunting catalog. I'm like, "Well, thanks."

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      (laughs)

   9. HRHenry Rollins3:26

      You know, for his Whackmaster-

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Right.

   11. HRHenry Rollins3:29

       You know. You get the croquet mallet and the, and the bow.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       (laughs)

   13. HRHenry Rollins3:33

       Anyway, I kept it 'cause I'm a fan. And then I met him years later, uh, on... I did his radio show, like Saint Patrick's Day 1997 to crassly promote my next record. And I said, "We met years ago." And, and we got to talking for like a couple of hours and we... It was just about music. And I played him some of my new record, which he really liked. And he... Between the commercial breaks, he was like playing riffs for me. We had a little headphone amp and he was sitting across from me on a stool playing. And I'm like, "This is pretty cool." And so that's the kind of relationship I have with him where I... You know, you read some of the things he says, you're like, "Okay, that's really hard to take." And, but those records, you know, they're just so good to me. And I saw him play in 2000 opening for Kiss, 2001, somewhere in there. And he was great, great. The tone, the playing, just fantastic. And so he's just an interesting, uh, bunch of guys (laughs) in-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:32

       Yeah, a bunch of guys. Yeah.

   15. HRHenry Rollins4:33

       You know what I mean? Because like, he can finish a sentence. He's not, he's n-... He's not stupid. He's hilarious. He has a steel trap memory. But then he'll just say, you know, like, "Obama's a subhuman mongrel." Like, man, you don't need to talk like that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       Right.

   17. HRHenry Rollins4:49

       Because there's people you will inspire to punch some Black guy in the parking lot for no reason. Like, something bad could happen if you talk like that to the millions of people who love you. Like, someone will get that message and they'll go south with it.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       Yeah.

   19. HRHenry Rollins5:04

       And when you're in that position, I don't believe in self-censorship. But I think you should be careful of what you say. I think there's some merit in having some control of yourself. And so I don't completely understand the guy.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       There's currency in outrageousness. That's what it is. And you, you cash in by being the guy that says things he can't... "I can't believe what he just said." And then you become the guy that goes places and says things that no one can believe that you're saying.

   21. HRHenry Rollins5:33

       You know, I, I, I know that there's some people, that's how they get their next book deal or whatever.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       Yeah. Yeah.

3. 5:38 – 10:05

   Talking like you’ll be held accountable: punk ethics vs. online sniping

   1. HRHenry Rollins5:38

      For myself, I would never wanna trade in that 'cause my, my reality coming up through punk rock and all of that is very, very immediate in that I don't say anything about anybody without expecting them to hear it. And with me turning the next corner, like going to my car in your parking lot-

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      Yeah.

   3. HRHenry Rollins5:57

      ... and having that person waiting for me at the car saying, "Hey, you said this."

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:02

      Right.

   5. HRHenry Rollins6:02

      And having them be able to hold it up on a, on a tablet and say it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:05

      Right.

   7. HRHenry Rollins6:05

      And so-... I, I watch what I say 'cause in my mind, I answer. I will have to answer to all of it. And so, I would never say something where someone going, "Really? Well, today's the day we're gonna see who can kick who's ass."

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:21

      (laughs)

   9. HRHenry Rollins6:21

      Because y- you know, men have this wrong idea that th- they, they can't be beat. Are you kidding?

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:27

       Yeah.

   11. HRHenry Rollins6:27

       Anyone can get knocked on their ass. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:30

       Yeah.

   13. HRHenry Rollins6:30

       You think you're tough? There's always... You know, you're in the business of tough guys. There's always a tougher guy around the corner.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       There's always a tougher guy. But more than that, it's like you don't r- ... Most of the conflict that you get in when you're talking shit about somebody, like p- uh, someone like you or I can do an interview and talk shit about someone and then go public, and you don't think twice about it. But n- now, it extends to social media and-

   15. HRHenry Rollins6:48

       Exactly.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:48

       ... pretty much anybody could do it at any time, and it just seems so easy to do. But y- I always try to think if that person was in front of me,-

   17. HRHenry Rollins6:56

       Exactly.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       ... how would I treat it? And if I would, if I would say, "Fuck this guy," like when he's in front of me, then this is a r- I have a real problem with this person.

   19. HRHenry Rollins7:04

       Sure.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       This is a real bad person.

   21. HRHenry Rollins7:05

       But I would always wait until I was in front of that person.

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:09

       Mm-hmm.

   23. HRHenry Rollins7:09

       And I have waited. I've bided my time with people I don't like, and you get into a conversation and I'll, I have said, you know, very calmly, uh, "I, I think you're a ridiculous person."

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       (laughs)

   25. HRHenry Rollins7:18

       "I, I think you're a standing, walking, talking billboard for cowardice."

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       Sometimes people need to hear that too, because sometimes people don't hear that. They don't hear that from someone and it's-

   27. HRHenry Rollins7:27

       Yeah, I'm not trying to help the guy. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. HRHenry Rollins7:29

       I'm just telling you it's-

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       But you are. But believe me.
4. 10:05 – 11:53

   Showtime special ‘Keep Talkin’, Pal’: humor as self-defense and survival

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:05

      Speaking of sustainable, I heard you have a Showtime special coming out tomorrow night.

   2. HRHenry Rollins10:09

      Wow, that was a great segue.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:10

      It's pretty good, right?

   4. HRHenry Rollins10:11

      Yeah, that was a fantastic segue.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:11

      I should be on radio, dude.

   6. HRHenry Rollins10:13

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:13

      I should, I should get a radio, real radio show.

   8. HRHenry Rollins10:16

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:18

      (laughs)

   10. HRHenry Rollins10:18

       Yeah. Yeah, Joe Non Sequitur Rogan.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       That's why I keep ripping on Ted Nugent. (laughs) I don't know where we're going with this.

   12. HRHenry Rollins10:23

       Uh, uh, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:23

       I like Ted.

   14. HRHenry Rollins10:24

       Yeah, so do I. Uh, Showtime special tomorrow, Friday... What's tomorrow, the 11th?

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:30

       The 10th.

   16. HRHenry Rollins10:30

       The 10th, sorry. Uh, Friday, August 10th, 10:00 PM East Coast, West Coast, Showtime. It's called Keep Talkin', Pal. And so, the-

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:38

       There it is.

   18. HRHenry Rollins10:39

       Uh, 10 seconds on that they said, "What are you gonna name it?" And I said, "Keep Talkin', Pal." They go, "What does that mean?" It's just, it's how you talk yourself in and out of trouble.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       (laughs)

   20. HRHenry Rollins10:48

       Like you're about to get punched out, like, "Keep talking, pal."

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:51

       (laughs)

   22. HRHenry Rollins10:51

       Like, "If you don't, if you don't get a laugh, you're not getting out of this bar." And that's kind of how, uh, I came into talking shows, was being, as a young guy, skinny, on Ritalin, not a good fighter, not a good fighter at all, you know, just not into it, and you know, the local bully. I've said something snarky or funny and, you know, all of a sudden he's got me by the scruff of my shirt with a fist in my face. And the only thing you can do is like imitate him so much that everyone else laughs and like he has to drop you 'cause he's now... Like drop, well, drop your collar, not your body, um, because you're now making him laugh. And so, when in doubt, "Keep talking, pal." And the fact that I have a "comedy special" on Showtime is so unlikely-

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       (laughs)

   24. HRHenry Rollins11:34

       ... from some guy from the minimum wage working world, I don't believe it myself. And so, they said, "What are you gonna call it?" And I... A lot of these people, they have a lot of confidence. Like, I'm gonna call it like-

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       Destruction.

   26. HRHenry Rollins11:44

       ... "Me and My Mighty Wang Take the Stage." (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:46

       (laughs)

   28. HRHenry Rollins11:47

       It's like, I don't have any of that. So, like, "Keep talking, pal," 'cause I know I'm really not supposed to be there, so... (laughs) It's...

5. 11:53 – 15:39

   First spoken-word gigs: $5, Black Flag chaos, and discovering his real stage voice

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:53

      How did you do your first show? Like what, what made you do your first talking show?

   2. HRHenry Rollins11:56

      Five dollars.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:57

      (laughs)

   4. HRHenry Rollins11:57

      Um, 1983.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:00

      Wow.

   6. HRHenry Rollins12:00

      A little venue on Hudson right off of S- like about 10 paces north of Santa Monica Boulevard. It's like a w- a street that dead ends onto Santa Monica Boulevard. It was an art space there called the Lhasa Club. And-There was a, a local promoter in town, amazing guy, and he would get like 25 people on stage in one night, everyone gets five minutes. And it'd be the singer of that band, the drummer of that band, that artist, that poet, like real artists who speak for a living, and then the guy with the funny tour journal or the guy from the band that we all like and he's gonna be an idiot for five minutes. And these shows were really fun 'cause it just, people on and off stage all night long, like running off stage. And the bass player in Black Flag, Chuck Tackowski, f- fantastic intellect. He would get invited onto these bills. I would go with him 'cause we were beach guys. We lived in the sticks and the gigs were in Hollywood. So we'll go into the big smoke, we'll go see the big city. I'd go with him 'cause he had the band van, he'd go into town, I'd tag along. So he'd read out of some notebook, his apocalyptic rantings. And one night the promoter said, "You got a big mouth. Next week you, five minutes," or like whatever, seven minutes, five bucks. All I could think of was the five bucks-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:11

      (laughs)

   8. HRHenry Rollins13:11

      ... and like what I could ... 'Cause we were starving, you know, as-

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:14

      Right.

   10. HRHenry Rollins13:14

       ... as any, any band was. And so the next show I got on stage at Lhasa, told a story about what had happened at band practice the day before where a white supremist in a car tried to run over our guitar player 'cause we had brown skinned people at our band practice. And so he yell- he accused our guitar player of being a (beep) lover and tried to run him over on his way-

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:36

       Geez.

   12. HRHenry Rollins13:36

       ... to the liquor store to get some orange juice. So our guitar player comes back a little shaken, (laughs) "Uh, I nearly got run over by a neo-Nazi and let's go back to practice." And so for us that was his Tuesday in the life of Black Flag. For an audience they're like, "Huh?" You hear jaws hit the ground. And then I read something I'd written, I go, "Well, my five minutes are up," or whatever it was, and I left the stage. And it felt right. It felt like a fish dropped into water for the first time, like, "Hey, I'm a fish." Like I didn't have a band-

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       Wow.

   14. HRHenry Rollins14:03

       ... but I had no stage fright and just me and a microphone, it felt more natural than music ever felt, which was cool to do but never felt natural. It just felt like it's, it ... this thing is in me, it's gotta come out. I'm serving a, uh, a monster. Where the talking show's like, "Yeah, this is me." And after the show people came up and said, "When's your next show?" I said, "Well, I'm leaving on tour." They go, "No, no, no. When you're just talking." I said, "Well, no, that's a one-off. I got this $5 bill, I'm outta here."

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       (laughs) .

   16. HRHenry Rollins14:32

       And so the agent, the, the promoter guy said, "Okay. You're very good at that. You're a natural. So how about this? Uh, I promote all these different poets and performance artists. I'll get you on, I'll give you 20 bucks. You'll do 20 minutes opening for this guy." "Okay." So I, you know, did 20 minutes and then after a handful of those shows, those poet types were opening for me because the Black Flag aspect kicks in, like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:57

       Right.

   18. HRHenry Rollins14:57

       ... "Oh, he's the dude from Black Flag," people show up. And I guess I was good enough and so those poets weren't that happy, like, "I'm now opening for this guy? Okay."

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       (laughs)

   20. HRHenry Rollins15:07

       And that was '83 turning into '84. By '85 I had gone to Europe for some poetry festival which I kind of blagged onto in Holland. I had done a cross-country tour, 12 to 50 people a night, sleep on the promoter's couch, go by Amtrak. And started my little book company, uh, '83, '84, self-published to this day.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       That's awesome.

   22. HRHenry Rollins15:30

       And it went from strength-

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       That's very cool.

   24. HRHenry Rollins15:31

       ... to strength. And now it's a 14-month tour that takes in 20 countries, multiple nights in cities at nice theaters.

6. 15:39 – 20:38

   Running a small press: 27 books, self-publishing realities, and leaving Amazon distribution

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      Do you only b- use, uh, yourself for your publishing company or do you publish anybody else's books?

   2. HRHenry Rollins15:44

      We used to. Uh, y- many years ago we, I, uh, people I knew who I thought were great writers, I put them out. We licensed Nick Cave's books from his publishers in Europe. Uh, we licensed a few different titles. We did photo books and, uh, a couple of novels, short story collections. And it's very hard to, um, have a book company. It's hard to sell a book in the world unless it's like Stephen King or Danielle Steel, that's mega, you know-

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:11

      Yeah.

   4. HRHenry Rollins16:12

      ... at the, at the cash register at the airport store. Uh, if you're selling poetry books, uh, different kinds of literature, you are nothing but uphill. My books did okay. They still, they always do okay. Everyone else's books is like trying to sell dead animal guts, you know what I mean?

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:28

      (laughs)

   6. HRHenry Rollins16:28

      Like no, no one's that interested. They'll look, but they don't want to take it home. And so, um, we stopped signing new writers, sold through the, the press runs, let the licenses run out. Everyone got to keep their masters. And then we just concentrated on me 'cause, uh, I, I keep a whole staff busy with all the stuff I've got going. And so we publish, but we publish me. And I've done a bunch of books.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:53

      How many books have you written?

   8. HRHenry Rollins16:53

      About 27.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:54

      Holy shit. That's so crazy. (laughs)

   10. HRHenry Rollins16:56

       I got nothing else going on. Uh, all but two of them, uh, we-

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       (laughs)

   12. HRHenry Rollins17:01

       I wanted to do a photo book a few years ago, and Heidi, who runs all my company, she's the smart one. So I showed her the manuscript, she goes, "Okay. The book is great but let's not do it on our company 'cause it's a lot of startup money for a photo book. It's just a lot of setup cost. Let's get you a literary agent and do it somewhere else." And so I ... Smart idea. And so we got a literary agent and we did get a book deal with a very good, uh, Chicago, uh, it's a Chicago company. Um, Chicago Review? I'm forgetting. Um, and they put out the photo book and that was a learning experience, like working with an editor. Like I'll go, "Well, here's the cover." And they go, "Well, we're gonna have a meeting about that." I'm like, "You're having a meeting? It's my book. It's my book cover," 'cause I'm used to-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Right.

   14. HRHenry Rollins17:43

       ... owning my own machine. But when you work with other people's money, everyone has a big opinion. So that, that book came out and did, and continues to do very well. And many years ago I did a kind of a best of, if I have any best of material. I did a best of for Random House many, many years ago that you still see. It, it's in print and that's a lot of people's first book of mine 'cause it's in stores. We pulled my company's books out of circulation because of Amazon 'cause they can actually sell it cheaper than we can 'cause they don't mind making five cents on a book 'cause they're selling 80 billion books a second. So we p-... pulled ourselves out of distribution and now it's very much the website and at live shows. And we have less returns. We don't get a pallet of damaged books coming back that were, you know, abused in some bookstore in a shopping mall in the Midwest, like, heavily thumbed, but never taken home.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:38

       So, you can't buy your books off of Amazon unless it's a third-party seller?

   16. HRHenry Rollins18:41

       Right. And, uh, it would never be us.

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:42

       Yeah. So you just sell them on your own.

   18. HRHenry Rollins18:44

       Yep. And you might not sell as many, but you don't get 1,100 returns.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       You get 1,100 returns?

   20. HRHenry Rollins18:52

       Well, you know, when I, you know what I mean?

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:53

       Is it really that bad?

   22. HRHenry Rollins18:53

       Like, well, when we were selling, uh, everyone else's books, too.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       Right.

   24. HRHenry Rollins18:56

       You'd get, like, a pallet of, like, books that look like a dog chewed them, or, like, remainder stickers. It is what it is.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:03

       Yeah.

   26. HRHenry Rollins19:03

       And so, I am extraordinarily small of fame. I sell lots of books. They, they're, they do great, uh, as e-books as well. In fact, that's kind of overtaking. I'm not an e-book guy. I like to take a marker and mark books up. And so I buy paper ones. But apparently, the real world likes to read on their tablet and so all my books are on that platform, thanks to Heidi. And apparently, they sell very well. I don't keep track. I just write them. I don't count them.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:32

       If you had to suggest to somebody a good book of yours to start with, what would you say to start with? If I, I was gonna read your books, what should I start with?

   28. HRHenry Rollins19:39

       Oh, I would tell you to read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:42

       (laughs)

   30. HRHenry Rollins19:43

       Um, I would just tell you read a real writer. Um, Get In The Van, my tour journals from Black Flag, is just a c- people like that book. It's in a bunch of different languages. Uh, it's just a cool, insane read of, like, living this very, uh, feral life. Like, you know, fighting, women and music and (laughs) relative poverty. So, that's a fun one to start.
7. 20:38 – 43:08

   Solitary work ethic and social anxiety: ‘I can be the party, not go to the party’

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:38

      Your sort of, your manic dedication to work is very inspiring. Like, it makes me feel like I need to work more. Like, when you're writing all the time and doing all these things, like, you're one of those guys that's like, it feels like you're always with your foot on the gas.

   2. HRHenry Rollins20:51

      Yeah. I'm kinda furious-

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:54

      (laughs)

   4. HRHenry Rollins20:54

      ... w- for work.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:56

      Yeah.

   6. HRHenry Rollins20:56

      But I, I don't... It's, it's not what... It's what I do, but it's also what I don't do, in that I don't have a family, and I'm not putting it down. I just don't have that. I'm just not chipped that way. I, I never thought of having kids. I don't have a wife. I don't have friends, really. I, most of the people I know, uh, either pay a salary or a commission to. My phone doesn't ring. My old best friend from since I was 12, Ian MacKaye of the band Fugazi, he and I talk every Sunday if possible. Uh, but past that, my phone usually doesn't ring unless it's an interview or Heidi going, "Hey, you're late. Get over there."

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:36

      Is that good?

   8. HRHenry Rollins21:38

      It, it is what it is.

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:39

      Does it work for you? Like, does-

   10. HRHenry Rollins21:41

       It's all, it's all I know. I've been that way since I was five.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:44

       But th- the no friends part?

   12. HRHenry Rollins21:46

       Well, I don't, I'm not looking for enemies. I'm not looking for a fight.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       Right, right, right. Of course.

   14. HRHenry Rollins21:49

       I just don't wanna come over on the weekend for dinner.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:54

       No?

   16. HRHenry Rollins21:55

       No. And, and, I, I-

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:56

       You don't... You ever have a good time at dinner with somebody?

   18. HRHenry Rollins21:58

       I'm just uncomfortable-

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:59

       (laughs)

   20. HRHenry Rollins21:59

       ... that I'll say the wrong thing and I just act... like, look at the table full of people and go, "Act like them."

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:06

       You should be friends with comics 'cause you can't say the wrong thing 'cause no one cares.

   22. HRHenry Rollins22:10

       Yeah. But then you have to... then they'll call and say, "Hey, come out with us. We're going," and then you have to go.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:16

       (laughs) You don't have to go. You, you just say-

   24. HRHenry Rollins22:19

       No, I'm a, I'm a de-

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       ... "Fuck that. I'm not going."

   26. HRHenry Rollins22:21

       ... I'm a deadbeat, I'd be a deadbeat friend-

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:23

       That's fine.

   28. HRHenry Rollins22:23

       ... 'cause I'd never wanna go with anyone to do anything.

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       You don't have to.

   30. HRHenry Rollins22:27

       But, but well, look at all the phone calls I'm saving.
8. 43:08 – 45:33

   Work as antidepressant: sleep tracking, workouts between records, and task-driven happiness

   1. HRHenry Rollins43:08

      Yeah. I value work. I'm an achievement junkie. Like, if I'm depressed, I just pick something to do, like finish a radio show, edit this thing, transcribe this chapter from a notebook. And after I'm done, I'm like, "Okay, that's the antidepressant, was actually-"

   2. JRJoe Rogan43:26

      Mm-hmm.

   3. HRHenry Rollins43:26

      "... doing something." Which is not the worst. It's not booze, it's not a pill, it's the treadmill.

   4. JRJoe Rogan43:33

      Yeah.

   5. HRHenry Rollins43:33

      Or it's the, "Oh, that damn thing, I gotta get it written." Well, shut up and write it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan43:38

      Yeah.

   7. HRHenry Rollins43:38

      And when I'm done, it's like an endorphin thing, where I'm great for another day.

   8. JRJoe Rogan43:42

      There was an article written about happiness and that was one of the things that they said, that one of the things that seems to sustain people's happiness or facilitate happiness is accomplishing tasks. Like setting goals for yourself, accomplishing those goals, and getting this sense of completion-

   9. HRHenry Rollins43:56

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan43:56

       ... that you've, you've actually done the work and you did it and you disciplined yourself and got through it, and that this is one of the major keys to happiness for a lot of people.

   11. HRHenry Rollins44:04

       Works for me. Totally works for me, 'cause I've tried-

   12. JRJoe Rogan44:06

       Me as well.

   13. HRHenry Rollins44:07

       I've tried everything but drugs, 'cause I've been battling with depression since I was a little kid. You know, I just knew it. I'm like, "What is this?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan44:13

       Right.

   15. HRHenry Rollins44:13

       "It's just awful." And, you know, later I found out it was depression. And I don't wanna do drugs. I'm not ... I just don't want it-

   16. JRJoe Rogan44:19

       Mm-hmm.

   17. HRHenry Rollins44:20

       ... my brain plus drugs. It's like someone else's idea. It terrifies me. So I had to figure out, what do you do? And so that's where the gym, you know, working out really is a big help, writing. But listening to music, that is like a, kind of my drug. You know, I just put the records on and like s- three songs in you're like, "Oh, there's that feeling." Buoyancy neutral. It's like floating in the tank or when you're-

   18. JRJoe Rogan44:44

       Mm-hmm.

   19. HRHenry Rollins44:44

       ... scuba diving, you get the-

   20. JRJoe Rogan44:45

       Right.

   21. HRHenry Rollins44:45

       ... air just right and you're floating. That's how I feel when I have the music on. I'm like, "Ah, this is as good as it gets." And that's why I always have, you know, record ... I'm always looking at new records, going to the record store. There's more happiness coming in.

   22. JRJoe Rogan44:58

       Does the exercise work better or the same as work? Like, for managing depression.

   23. HRHenry Rollins45:05

       Uh, the workout is maintenance. It doesn't achieve much, but y- I achieve the workout. I-

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:10

       But do you feel like the, the, the e- endorphin release, does that help you? Does that-

   25. HRHenry Rollins45:15

       Yes. Yeah, it does and I, I, as, as the Buddhists say, I made merit. I, I, I went in there and did my time on the treadmill. I don't wanna be there.

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:25

       (laughs)

   27. HRHenry Rollins45:25

       You know, like, I, I-

   28. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       Yeah.

   29. HRHenry Rollins45:26

       ... just like, the last 15 minutes, I don't ... I'd rather be somewhere else. Like, "You know, it's cool. You'll be fine. Sit down. Do your work."

9. 45:33 – 58:00

   Body maintenance toolkit: yoga, cryotherapy, sauna, and reducing inflammation

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      That's why before the podcast, I was suggesting hot yoga to you. And you, you seem to be very stiff lately. You've got some injuries and some things that are-

   2. HRHenry Rollins45:41

      Yeah, it's all coming back.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:42

      ... bothering you. Yeah.

   4. HRHenry Rollins45:42

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:42

      Dude, I'm telling you, that'll fix a lot of that shit. It'll really-

   6. HRHenry Rollins45:46

      Yeah, I know you-

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:46

      ... change.

   8. HRHenry Rollins45:46

      You have, you have a great workout diversity. You, you, when you and I were talking before, we were at your place and you said some mornings you feel like training this way and you'll go to that gym-

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:57

      Mm-hmm.

   10. HRHenry Rollins45:57

       ... or you'll train, like with, uh, judo or whatever and then the next day it's gonna be kettlebells, so you really like to mix it up. I think g- it's good for a body to always be guessing-

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Yeah.

   12. HRHenry Rollins46:06

       ... what's coming next.

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Yeah, I think that's important. I also, I ... There's some things that I really have to do. I think I need at least one day of hard cardio a week, and I think I need at least one day of hard lifting weights a week, but I also think I need at least one day of yoga a week.

   14. HRHenry Rollins46:21

       Huh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       At least. Yoga is, to me it's one of the most important things that I do, because for that 90 minutes I can't go anywhere, I don't touch my ... My phone's not in the room with me.

   16. HRHenry Rollins46:29

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       It's just me and a, a jug of water and the yoga mat and the class and a bunch of old ladies that are kicking my ass. These old (laughs) ladies are fucking tough, man. There's this old lady, she goes to this workout class with me, I see her there all the time, she's gotta be close to 70. She doesn't even bring water. She just toughs it out. She's there for 90 minutes sweating and grunting through the postures. And those la- you're doing an hour and a half class, those last 20 minutes in 104 degrees, it's so hard to get through. But when you get through, you just feel like ... You feel better. I just, I can ... Almost like can't ... While I'm in it, I can't wait to do it again. Like, while I'm struggling and I was like, "God, I need to do more than this. I need to do this more often, rather." I can't wait to do this again. Like, I always feel that. And it just lengthens everything, like all the back things and the leg things, the hamstring things. Just stretches everything out, lengthens it, and all the tension, it just straightens it out and loosens it up. And I just feel like for a guy like you or I who does a lot of (grunts) , a lot of like ... Especially-

   18. HRHenry Rollins47:30

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan47:30

       ... like you used to do a lot of heavy lifting, you were saying, a lot of-

   20. HRHenry Rollins47:32

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan47:32

       ... deadlifts and squats. This is the antidote for all that stuff.

   22. HRHenry Rollins47:35

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan47:36

       It's decompression and, and for your body maintenance, it's just phenomenal.

   24. HRHenry Rollins47:40

       Probably lets loose the lactic acid outta your muscle tissue.

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:42

       Oh, yeah.

   26. HRHenry Rollins47:43

       Yeah, you know, here, here's what I've observed. You know, I live in Los Angeles, so there's a lot of yoga people.

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:48

       Yeah.

   28. HRHenry Rollins47:49

       Uh, but, you know, I know them 'cause they have a mat.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:51

       Mm-hmm.

   30. HRHenry Rollins47:51

       But you can also see how they walk.... how they sit. They're so in their body.
10. 58:00 – 1:05:57

    Intermittent fasting and travel eating: why ‘less food’ improves focus

    1. HRHenry Rollins58:00

       Yeah. I, I don't eat as much as I used to. I just feel so much better when I just skip the middle meal. And like, whose idea was it, three meals a day anyway?

    2. JRJoe Rogan58:11

       You don't need that. No.

    3. HRHenry Rollins58:12

       Right. And I found that I can live very comfortably. I'm not into, like, torturing myself so like, "I'm gonna starve and nail myself to this chair." But you know, if, if I'm too dis- too distracted to work 'cause I'm hungry, I need to address that.

    4. JRJoe Rogan58:26

       Right.

    5. HRHenry Rollins58:26

       But what I have found is if I just kind of don't eat a lot, after a couple of days, I'm like a jet in the high air where you're burning no fuel 'cause you're just in the thin air, where I walk by food going like, "Nah, I, I've had like two meals in the last ... Two and a half meals, like, in the last three days and I feel fine." Actually, I feel like really bouncy.

    6. JRJoe Rogan58:50

       Yeah.

    7. HRHenry Rollins58:50

       Like I don't need the, the post-workout seven-minute power nap. I, I, I'm feeling really good.

    8. JRJoe Rogan58:56

       Do you do intermittent fasting at all?

    9. HRHenry Rollins58:57

       Um, y- y- y- yes. On the, the woman I work with, you know Heidi.

    10. JRJoe Rogan59:04

        Mm-hmm.

    11. HRHenry Rollins59:04

        She does that sometimes, and I'll just follow her lead. So she'll go, "Hey, I've been doing this." "I'll, I'll try that."

    12. JRJoe Rogan59:10

        Right.

    13. HRHenry Rollins59:10

        Because I just don't know this stuff.

    14. JRJoe Rogan59:11

        Mm-hmm.

    15. HRHenry Rollins59:12

        And she knows a lot more about it than I do. So I just do what she does. And so a few years ago, I got into, like, one meal a day. I was just trying it out. No one told me to. I was in India of all places, and I was out all day taking photos and sweating, and I would eat dinner and that would be it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan59:29

        Mm-hmm.

    17. HRHenry Rollins59:29

        And I would, like, sleep through breakfast and go back out and, with my camera. So dinner became my meal. And the first three days of that was a little tough. And then it was like I never wanted ... I kind of felt bad when I went back to the Western-

    18. JRJoe Rogan59:42

        Yeah.

    19. HRHenry Rollins59:42

        ... "Boy, I'm eating a lot of food." And I-

    20. JRJoe Rogan59:44

        Your body adapts.

    21. HRHenry Rollins59:46

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan59:46

        Yeah.

    23. HRHenry Rollins59:46

        Oh, we can adapt. You can live on pizza for the rest of your life very happily all-

    24. JRJoe Rogan59:50

        (laughs)

    25. HRHenry Rollins59:50

        ... you know, whatever.

    26. JRJoe Rogan59:51

        But your body really does adapt to that intermittent, that time feeding.

    27. HRHenry Rollins59:53

        Well, no, I'm saying it'll adapt to anything.

    28. JRJoe Rogan59:55

        Yeah.

    29. HRHenry Rollins59:55

        It'll adapt to too much food-

    30. JRJoe Rogan59:56

        Mm-hmm.
11. 1:05:57 – 1:13:19

    Water and dignity: Congo wells, Uganda/South Sudan drilling, and hidden impacts on education

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:05:57

       My good friend, Justin Wren, he runs a charity called Fight for the Forgotten where they build wells for the pygmies in the Congo.

    2. HRHenry Rollins1:06:03

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:03

       And he's had malaria three times-

    4. HRHenry Rollins1:06:05

       Oh, man.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:06:05

       ... from going over there. Yeah.

    6. HRHenry Rollins1:06:06

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:06:06

       And he's a v- he's this, a beautiful human being. Like this guy sacrifices so much. He's in the Congo several months out of every year-

    8. HRHenry Rollins1:06:13

       It's a tough pla- I mean it's very dangerous.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:06:15

       ... building wells. It is very dangerous and, you know, he's got some crazy stories about it too but-

    10. HRHenry Rollins1:06:19

        I bet.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:06:19

        You know, these people, th- like y- you see little children with horrible distended bellies 'cause they're filled with parasites and it's, it's heartbreaking. A lot of it is clean water and so they're developing ... They were, they were initially partnered up with Water4 and now he's kinda doing it all on his own but ... And through this, one of my sponsors is called the Cash App and through the Cash App they, they, we've already raised thousands of dollars to build several wells in the Congo. And we're constantly like raising more money and building more wells. And, you know, it changes their life. They have f-

    12. HRHenry Rollins1:06:48

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:06:48

        ... free actual clear water that comes out of the ground. You see these people celebrating and dancing when the wells get turned on like, this is so powerful. You just think of water as like, "Oh, hey, here's some water. I got a bottle."

    14. HRHenry Rollins1:07:01

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:07:01

        But to them, it's, it's everything.

    16. HRHenry Rollins1:07:03

        Yeah. I w- I've been working on and off with a water NGO for many years called Drop In The Bucket, and I've been to Uganda and South Sudan with them. They drill at schools. And ...... y- you know, as a Westerner, water's just a thing we sing in the shower with. You know, it's just like, it's always around. You know, you trip over the bottles, there's so much water.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:07:21

        Right.

    18. HRHenry Rollins1:07:22

        Um, in other parts of the world, as you know, not so much. And when you, when you see the impact of water on a school, there's so many things you don't think about. And so I was at this one school, uh, where they had drilled, drop in the bucket, they had drilled like before when we were there to visit the well and meet, meet the kids, uh, in Lusaka. It's, uh, I think north of Kampala. And what one of the drop in the bucket people says is, like, "They now have toilets and running water. Do you understand what that means for female literacy?" I'm like, "N- what do you mean?" A woman, a girl hits a certain age, she goes through a mazor- major physiological change. If there's not running water and a way for her to clean herself up, there's a lot of potential shame and self-consciousness. You stop going to school-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:08:09

        Oh.

    20. HRHenry Rollins1:08:09

        ... 'cause there's not a way to keep yourself together.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:08:12

        Wow.

    22. HRHenry Rollins1:08:12

        And you stop, your learning stops at young adulthood. But with running water and a way to, you know, uh, as we Westerners just do so, you know, easily, you keep yourself, uh, hygienic and you can go back to class and learn to read. And I was like, I, I never would have thought of that had I not come on this trip. And it hit me like a truck. 'Cause you just think water, I'm thirsty. Water means so much more, just dignity-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:08:39

        Yeah.

    24. HRHenry Rollins1:08:39

        ... like I wanna be clean. You and me, we throw our clothes in the laundry every day.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:08:43

        Yeah.

    26. HRHenry Rollins1:08:44

        Clean clothes, I mean, you see these women walking eight miles each way with the jerry cans of water. Some of that's for drinking, a lot of it's for cleaning clothes 'cause they're sending their kid to a school. They want the kid, you know, human dignity, water and all of that is a big... You know, y- you can't have dignity (laughs) without the water-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:09:02

        Yeah.

    28. HRHenry Rollins1:09:02

        ... 'cause water means I don't stink-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:09:04

        Right.

    30. HRHenry Rollins1:09:04

        ... and you must take me s- you must respect me as a person because I don't smell like I've been living in these clothes for a week. And, um, I learned a lot of that by traveling, but traveling with that NGO was a, you know, like going to s- class, it was huge.

Episode duration: 2:31:54