Joe Rogan Experience #1155 - Henry Rollins

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Here we go. Four,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Here we go. Four, three, two... Henry Rollins, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, fella?

   2. HRHenry Rollins0:08

      I'm better now, being here with you.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      I'm better now that you're here.

   4. HRHenry Rollins0:11

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      We were just talking about a show that you got you and Ted Nugent, apparently... Someone, did someone... Did you pitch it? Who pitched the show?

   6. HRHenry Rollins0:19

      Um, it was an idea that, uh, my manager, Heidi and I came up with. Well, mostly Heidi. It was like, it was called basically Henry And. Uh, you put me and someone I might have some disagreements with, or a few agreements with, and we just go somewhere and we weigh in with a camera following us. And we're thinking, "W- what... It'll be like a six-part miniseries." Like, you know, f-... Me and plus six interesting people. And one of the names that came up was Ted Nugent because I, uh, y- I'm a fan of his music. I think he's one of the best guitar players I've ever seen. Yet, he and I would m-... Probably disagree on, uh, one or a few topics. And so we actually pickes- pitched it to Ted, who said he loved the idea, but he said, "I gotta go on... I'm busy with..." He had a d- a ton of tour dates, so I think he's on now. But he said, "I wanna talk to Henry to thank him for thinking of me." Okay. And so Ted called, like, on my phone in the office. I guess he got my number from the powers that be. (laughs) And suddenly, it's, it's Ted on my phone. I'm at my desk like, "Okay, this is surreal."

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:29

      (laughs)

   8. HRHenry Rollins1:29

      And we talked for a few minutes and y- he said, uh, you know, like, "What? You think I'm a bad guy?" I'm like, "N- no. I... D- you... Uh, just some of the things you say, I just like... I... It kind of (laughs) takes my breath away." And then we quickly got on the topic of music. He said, "You like all that old Detroit music." I go, "Yeah, man. I mean, y- you, Mitch Ryder, The Stooges, MC5. I mean, it's kind of the best... It's some of the best music I've ever heard." I mean, as far... And I, I asked him, I go, "What is it? Is it Something in the Water? What is it with you Michigan guys and guitar tone? Like, no one gets tone like you, uh, Ron Ashton, Stooges, uh, Fred "Sonic" Smith, MC5." I go, "You guys, I mean, you're so good." And he said, "You gotta... We gotta hang out sometime and we'll just talk about music." I went, "I'll do that with you. So I'll be taking notes." And he was just telling me, you know, like, "Yeah, I used to hang out at the MC5 house and go see The Stooges." And I'm like, "You're killing me 'cause this is like..." You know, I... That would have been heaven for me to see those bands, like back in 1969 or whatever.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:38

      Did you... When did you know him? Did you know him back in the day or did you only speak to him recently?

   10. HRHenry Rollins2:42

       No, a- a- as, as a punter, I would go see him, like in high school in the 1870s. You know, Carter Administration.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:47

       (laughs)

   12. HRHenry Rollins2:47

       I'd go see him at play in my local arena in Washington, DC, in a place called The Capital Center in Largo, Maryland. And he was as good as rock and roll gets. I mean, it was... I saw the, the Double Live Gonzo lineup and like, forget it. It was like two and a half hours of just getting beat up by music. It was fantastic. And to this day, uh, it's still a high watermark as far as gigs. And in the '90s, I met him on Politically Incorrect, Bill Maher. And I said, "Hey man, I'm a big fan." And he gave me a bow hunting catalog. I'm like, "Well, thanks."

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       (laughs)

   14. HRHenry Rollins3:26

       You know, for his Whackmaster-

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Right.

   16. HRHenry Rollins3:29

       You know. You get the croquet mallet and the, and the bow.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       (laughs)

   18. HRHenry Rollins3:33

       Anyway, I kept it 'cause I'm a fan. And then I met him years later, uh, on... I did his radio show, like Saint Patrick's Day 1997 to crassly promote my next record. And I said, "We met years ago." And, and we got to talking for like a couple of hours and we... It was just about music. And I played him some of my new record, which he really liked. And he... Between the commercial breaks, he was like playing riffs for me. We had a little headphone amp and he was sitting across from me on a stool playing. And I'm like, "This is pretty cool." And so that's the kind of relationship I have with him where I... You know, you read some of the things he says, you're like, "Okay, that's really hard to take." And, but those records, you know, they're just so good to me. And I saw him play in 2000 opening for Kiss, 2001, somewhere in there. And he was great, great. The tone, the playing, just fantastic. And so he's just an interesting, uh, bunch of guys (laughs) in-

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:32

       Yeah, a bunch of guys. Yeah.

   20. HRHenry Rollins4:33

       You know what I mean? Because like, he can finish a sentence. He's not, he's n-... He's not stupid. He's hilarious. He has a steel trap memory. But then he'll just say, you know, like, "Obama's a subhuman mongrel." Like, man, you don't need to talk like that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       Right.

   22. HRHenry Rollins4:49

       Because there's people you will inspire to punch some Black guy in the parking lot for no reason. Like, something bad could happen if you talk like that to the millions of people who love you. Like, someone will get that message and they'll go south with it.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       Yeah.

   24. HRHenry Rollins5:04

       And when you're in that position, I don't believe in self-censorship. But I think you should be careful of what you say. I think there's some merit in having some control of yourself. And so I don't completely understand the guy.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       There's currency in outrageousness. That's what it is. And you, you cash in by being the guy that says things he can't... "I can't believe what he just said." And then you become the guy that goes places and says things that no one can believe that you're saying.

   26. HRHenry Rollins5:33

       You know, I, I, I know that there's some people, that's how they get their next book deal or whatever.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       Yeah. Yeah.

   28. HRHenry Rollins5:38

       For myself, I would never wanna trade in that 'cause my, my reality coming up through punk rock and all of that is very, very immediate in that I don't say anything about anybody without expecting them to hear it. And with me turning the next corner, like going to my car in your parking lot-

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       Yeah.

   30. HRHenry Rollins5:57

       ... and having that person waiting for me at the car saying, "Hey, you said this."
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. HRHenry Rollins15:00

      I guess I was good enough and so those poets weren't that happy, like, "I'm now opening for this guy? Okay."

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:06

      (laughs)

   3. HRHenry Rollins15:07

      And that was '83 turning into '84. By '85 I had gone to Europe for some poetry festival which I kind of blagged onto in Holland. I had done a cross-country tour, 12 to 50 people a night, sleep on the promoter's couch, go by Amtrak. And started my little book company, uh, '83, '84, self-published to this day.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      That's awesome.

   5. HRHenry Rollins15:30

      And it went from strength-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      That's very cool.

   7. HRHenry Rollins15:31

      ... to strength. And now it's a 14-month tour that takes in 20 countries, multiple nights in cities at nice theaters.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      Do you only b- use, uh, yourself for your publishing company or do you publish anybody else's books?

   9. HRHenry Rollins15:44

      We used to. Uh, y- many years ago we, I, uh, people I knew who I thought were great writers, I put them out. We licensed Nick Cave's books from his publishers in Europe. Uh, we licensed a few different titles. We did photo books and, uh, a couple of novels, short story collections. And it's very hard to, um, have a book company. It's hard to sell a book in the world unless it's like Stephen King or Danielle Steel, that's mega, you know-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       Yeah.

   11. HRHenry Rollins16:12

       ... at the, at the cash register at the airport store. Uh, if you're selling poetry books, uh, different kinds of literature, you are nothing but uphill. My books did okay. They still, they always do okay. Everyone else's books is like trying to sell dead animal guts, you know what I mean?

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       (laughs)

   13. HRHenry Rollins16:28

       Like no, no one's that interested. They'll look, but they don't want to take it home. And so, um, we stopped signing new writers, sold through the, the press runs, let the licenses run out. Everyone got to keep their masters. And then we just concentrated on me 'cause, uh, I, I keep a whole staff busy with all the stuff I've got going. And so we publish, but we publish me. And I've done a bunch of books.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       How many books have you written?

   15. HRHenry Rollins16:53

       About 27.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:54

       Holy shit. That's so crazy. (laughs)

   17. HRHenry Rollins16:56

       I got nothing else going on. Uh, all but two of them, uh, we-

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       (laughs)

   19. HRHenry Rollins17:01

       I wanted to do a photo book a few years ago, and Heidi, who runs all my company, she's the smart one. So I showed her the manuscript, she goes, "Okay. The book is great but let's not do it on our company 'cause it's a lot of startup money for a photo book. It's just a lot of setup cost. Let's get you a literary agent and do it somewhere else." And so I ... Smart idea. And so we got a literary agent and we did get a book deal with a very good, uh, Chicago, uh, it's a Chicago company. Um, Chicago Review? I'm forgetting. Um, and they put out the photo book and that was a learning experience, like working with an editor. Like I'll go, "Well, here's the cover." And they go, "Well, we're gonna have a meeting about that." I'm like, "You're having a meeting? It's my book. It's my book cover," 'cause I'm used to-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Right.

   21. HRHenry Rollins17:43

       ... owning my own machine. But when you work with other people's money, everyone has a big opinion. So that, that book came out and did, and continues to do very well. And many years ago I did a kind of a best of, if I have any best of material. I did a best of for Random House many, many years ago that you still see. It, it's in print and that's a lot of people's first book of mine 'cause it's in stores. We pulled my company's books out of circulation because of Amazon 'cause they can actually sell it cheaper than we can 'cause they don't mind making five cents on a book 'cause they're selling 80 billion books a second. So we p-... pulled ourselves out of distribution and now it's very much the website and at live shows. And we have less returns. We don't get a pallet of damaged books coming back that were, you know, abused in some bookstore in a shopping mall in the Midwest, like, heavily thumbed, but never taken home.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:38

       So, you can't buy your books off of Amazon unless it's a third-party seller?

   23. HRHenry Rollins18:41

       Right. And, uh, it would never be us.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:42

       Yeah. So you just sell them on your own.

   25. HRHenry Rollins18:44

       Yep. And you might not sell as many, but you don't get 1,100 returns.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       You get 1,100 returns?

   27. HRHenry Rollins18:52

       Well, you know, when I, you know what I mean?

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:53

       Is it really that bad?

   29. HRHenry Rollins18:53

       Like, well, when we were selling, uh, everyone else's books, too.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       Right.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Well, th- it is…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      That's so strange.

   2. HRHenry Rollins30:01

      Well, th- it is strange. But it's also, um, it's a way to avoid being with people, be in front of them.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      Mm-hmm.

   4. HRHenry Rollins30:07

      It's a way to be in the room with people, just be the center of attention. So, maybe that's coming from some kind of neediness or some deprivation as a, you know, what I didn't get as a kid. Um, but, uh, th- you make a great point about that. When you really think, "Well, this is where I belong-"

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      (laughs)

   6. HRHenry Rollins30:26

      ... I- I think you lose all the fun of it.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:29

      Yeah.

   8. HRHenry Rollins30:30

      And you turn into kind of a jerk. So, when I- I- every 500 years I go to one of those premieres, I get invited, and you're standing ... you're- you're in a room full of tons of really good food, and none of those people eat, so I just, like, go in there and come out nine pounds heavier, a bunch of shrimp. Um (laughs) , I just eat. But you- you're ... I w- I was at a- a big Hollywood premiere, big- big movie years ago, and it's like, "That one, that one, that one, that one." And they're all like, "Ah, it is their lives." And I- I'm with a- a buddy of mine. We blagged in there, and we're like, "What are we doing here? This is so cool, 'cause we know we shouldn't be here." And after shaking Ike Turner's hand-

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:08

      (laughs)

   10. HRHenry Rollins31:09

       ... 10 minutes later I'm back in my own kitchen going-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       (laughs)

   12. HRHenry Rollins31:12

       ... "That was so weird."

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       (laughs)

   14. HRHenry Rollins31:15

       Like, what a surreal evening. And, uh ... 'Cause my friend and I were standing next to each other. He goes ... And he said, "That looks like Ike Turner." I go, "No, man, that is Ike Turner." He looked- looked like a human barracuda. He's, like, terrifying.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       (laughs)

   16. HRHenry Rollins31:27

       I said, "Let's go meet him."

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       (laughs)

   18. HRHenry Rollins31:28

       I'm like, "Come on." Like, "We bought a ticket. We're at the dance. Let's- let's go talk to this guy." He's like, "No, no, no, no." And I just walked right over there. I said, "You invented rock and roll. Rocket 88." And he went, "Yes, I did," and shook my hand.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       Wow.

   20. HRHenry Rollins31:40

       And I said, "First ever distorted guitar on tape," which is kinda true. And he went, "That's right." And I fluffed him up, and he was all happy to meet me. And I said, "Hey, and here's my friend." And I brought my friend over, and we shook his hand and kinda stood with him for a minute, and went, "Okay, so it's probably not gonna get any better for us, so let's get outta here."

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       (laughs)

   22. HRHenry Rollins31:59

       And so we- we ate s- few more handfuls of mini burritos, and we-

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       (laughs)

   24. HRHenry Rollins32:06

       ... bailed. But it was one of those nights where we're like, "We weren't supposed to be in there." And if I ever lose that-

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       Yeah.

   26. HRHenry Rollins32:11

       ... then just never talk to me again, 'cause I'll just ... Uh, my head would've disappeared, a part of me.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       Well, that anxiety and that insecurity is a big part of the fuel that keeps everything moving, and-

   28. HRHenry Rollins32:21

       Super fuel for me.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       ... and- and keeps you analyzing yourself.

   30. HRHenry Rollins32:24

       Yeah. And anger.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Uh, the workout is…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      better or the same as work? Like, for managing depression.

   2. HRHenry Rollins45:05

      Uh, the workout is maintenance. It doesn't achieve much, but y- I achieve the workout. I-

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      But do you feel like the, the, the e- endorphin release, does that help you? Does that-

   4. HRHenry Rollins45:15

      Yes. Yeah, it does and I, I, as, as the Buddhists say, I made merit. I, I, I went in there and did my time on the treadmill. I don't wanna be there.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:25

      (laughs)

   6. HRHenry Rollins45:25

      You know, like, I, I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      Yeah.

   8. HRHenry Rollins45:26

      ... just like, the last 15 minutes, I don't ... I'd rather be somewhere else. Like, "You know, it's cool. You'll be fine. Sit down. Do your work."

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      That's why before the podcast, I was suggesting hot yoga to you. And you, you seem to be very stiff lately. You've got some injuries and some things that are-

   10. HRHenry Rollins45:41

       Yeah, it's all coming back.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       ... bothering you. Yeah.

   12. HRHenry Rollins45:42

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       Dude, I'm telling you, that'll fix a lot of that shit. It'll really-

   14. HRHenry Rollins45:46

       Yeah, I know you-

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       ... change.

   16. HRHenry Rollins45:46

       You have, you have a great workout diversity. You, you, when you and I were talking before, we were at your place and you said some mornings you feel like training this way and you'll go to that gym-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       Mm-hmm.

   18. HRHenry Rollins45:57

       ... or you'll train, like with, uh, judo or whatever and then the next day it's gonna be kettlebells, so you really like to mix it up. I think g- it's good for a body to always be guessing-

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Yeah.

   20. HRHenry Rollins46:06

       ... what's coming next.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Yeah, I think that's important. I also, I ... There's some things that I really have to do. I think I need at least one day of hard cardio a week, and I think I need at least one day of hard lifting weights a week, but I also think I need at least one day of yoga a week.

   22. HRHenry Rollins46:21

       Huh.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       At least. Yoga is, to me it's one of the most important things that I do, because for that 90 minutes I can't go anywhere, I don't touch my ... My phone's not in the room with me.

   24. HRHenry Rollins46:29

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       It's just me and a, a jug of water and the yoga mat and the class and a bunch of old ladies that are kicking my ass. These old (laughs) ladies are fucking tough, man. There's this old lady, she goes to this workout class with me, I see her there all the time, she's gotta be close to 70. She doesn't even bring water. She just toughs it out. She's there for 90 minutes sweating and grunting through the postures. And those la- you're doing an hour and a half class, those last 20 minutes in 104 degrees, it's so hard to get through. But when you get through, you just feel like ... You feel better. I just, I can ... Almost like can't ... While I'm in it, I can't wait to do it again. Like, while I'm struggling and I was like, "God, I need to do more than this. I need to do this more often, rather." I can't wait to do this again. Like, I always feel that. And it just lengthens everything, like all the back things and the leg things, the hamstring things. Just stretches everything out, lengthens it, and all the tension, it just straightens it out and loosens it up. And I just feel like for a guy like you or I who does a lot of (grunts) , a lot of like ... Especially-

   26. HRHenry Rollins47:30

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:30

       ... like you used to do a lot of heavy lifting, you were saying, a lot of-

   28. HRHenry Rollins47:32

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:32

       ... deadlifts and squats. This is the antidote for all that stuff.

   30. HRHenry Rollins47:35

       Right.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:11:34

   Right. …

   1. HRHenry Rollins1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      Right.

   3. HRHenry Rollins1:00:00

      Here ... But just here's what I have found. When I start limiting the food, I'm more alert.... my sleep is more restorative, and I bounce out of bed like psh, I'm just flying-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Right. Mm-hmm.

   5. HRHenry Rollins1:00:14

      ... out of bed. I don't have that afternoon drowsiness, I just stay with it, and I just feel way more buoyant and present.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

      Yeah.

   7. HRHenry Rollins1:00:22

      Uh, f- type faster, just concentrate more. And, uh, I- I, when I'm on tour I, it's usually I do one point something meals a day. Like I'm about to leave on tour, it'll be, it's an evening meal post-show.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

      I put myself into an eight-hour feeding window and 16-hour fasting window every day.

   9. HRHenry Rollins1:00:42

      Oh.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       And I've been pretty consistent with that over the last like four or five months, and it has a, it has a big impact, man. When you, you, when I eat dinner, you know, say if I'm done at eight o'clock, I ve- just, I just time it out. 16 hours later is when my first meal comes. I can have a coffee in between now and then-

   11. HRHenry Rollins1:00:58

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       ... but nothing with l- like any real significant calories. I'm just having some liquid or something like that-

   13. HRHenry Rollins1:01:03

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       ... and that's it. And then, it just, by doing that, man, I just like, I wake up in the morning, I'm not craving breakfast. I'm not, I'm not even hungry. My body's just totally adapted to it.

   15. HRHenry Rollins1:01:13

       Yeah. Yeah. Just-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       It gives your body a chance to digest. I think we're always in this state of feeding, and your body just never has really a chance to digest all that food.

   17. HRHenry Rollins1:01:21

       It's like juggling. You know, the body's like, as it's processing, it's incoming like, "Really?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

       Yeah. (laughs)

   19. HRHenry Rollins1:01:27

       "Another order?"

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

       Exactly.

   21. HRHenry Rollins1:01:28

       We're, it never gets to realize digestion.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:31

       Yeah.

   23. HRHenry Rollins1:01:31

       Like, we're done. It's always in a ... Like you're like a cow-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:33

       Yep.

   25. HRHenry Rollins1:01:34

       ... they're always processing nutrition.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       Yeah.

   27. HRHenry Rollins1:01:37

       Uh, and I, I wonder if that's a Western model.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

       Yeah.

   29. HRHenry Rollins1:01:41

       'Cause in other parts of the world, uh, people live very differently than we do. It just, it is what it is. And a meal is, it's almost just a thing that happens now and then. It's not like it's dinner time and we're gonna talk about report cards and-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:56

       Right. (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:31:54