Joe Rogan Experience #1164 - Mikhaila Peterson

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Five, four, three, two,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Five, four, three, two, one. And we're live? Yes. Hello.

   2. MPMikhaila Peterson0:11

      Hello.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      What's happening?

   4. MPMikhaila Peterson0:13

      Not much. I'm excited to be here.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      I'm excited to have you here. Uh, your father speaks very highly of you.

   6. MPMikhaila Peterson0:18

      That's good.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      What is it like to have Jordan Peterson as a dad? Is it weird? Do you have to check yourself constantly and make sure you're on, you know-

   8. MPMikhaila Peterson0:25

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      ... on steady ground and-

   10. MPMikhaila Peterson0:27

       I didn't-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       ... don't say anything ridiculous?

   12. MPMikhaila Peterson0:28

       No. Not at all. Not at all. I didn't realize it was weird until I went away to university, and then kind of s- so, like, just was away for a while, and then when I came back to the house especially, 'cause the house is full of, like, paintings and masks and statues and, like, 32 different paint colors, and I came back and was like, "Oh, maybe he's a bit eccentric."

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       (laughs)

   14. MPMikhaila Peterson0:50

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       No, he's definitely eccentric. Um, we were talking off-air about what it was like to watch your dad become famous and, and become famous in, in his 50s, right? Like-

   16. MPMikhaila Peterson1:01

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       ... I hope-

   18. MPMikhaila Peterson1:01

       Like, 54, 55.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       That's when he became famous. Before that, relatively unknown, respected professor. One issue with this one transgender bill, the, the, the preferred pronouns bill.

   20. MPMikhaila Peterson1:14

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       And then boom, off to the races.

   22. MPMikhaila Peterson1:17

       Yeah. It was-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       Is this strange?

   24. MPMikhaila Peterson1:19

       It was ... Yeah, it was super weird, especially how the media was portraying him and how what was actually happening at the events wasn't what was being portrayed in the media. So that was weird to watch, and then people recognizing him on the street is strange. It's ... Yes, it's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       When you say-

   26. MPMikhaila Peterson1:35

       It's been weird.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       ... what, what happened in real life was not was, what was being portrayed, like, what was different?

   28. MPMikhaila Peterson1:41

       Um, mostly what he was saying. So most of what he's said is on film anyway.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MPMikhaila Peterson1:46

       So you can go to YouTube and see what he's been saying. Like, not, there's not, like, some secret that's going around. But what's been portrayed has been so much more negative than what he's actually said. Or they'll take, like, sound bites and just weave a story that isn't quite true, which I didn't re- for some reason I ... Now it looks silly, but for some reason I just thought that what the media was portraying was honest and-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Jesus Christ. …

   1. MPMikhaila Peterson15:00

      Um, so that was that weekend. So then I went back to the diet and got really strict with it. And then things were better, like my skin was better. I, I lost... This was weird. I lost five pounds, which wasn't a lot, but I went down three pant sizes. So it was all bloating that I didn't realize was bloating 'cause it never fluctuated. So that was the first month. And then 2015, and then I started trying to reintroduce foods because I was having cravings and I missed going out to eat with my friends and everything. So I tried to re-... The first thing I tried to reintroduce was (laughs) Sour Patch candy because I was having really intense sugar... Don't look at me like that. I was having really intense sugar cravings and I looked at the package and I thought, "Okay, no one's allergic to s- sugar. Um, there's no dairy, there's no gluten, there's no soy. This'll be fine." And I really wanted to eat them. (laughs) And I had those, and the next day, my whole body was itchy again. And it was like, like mosquito bites everywhere itchy. So I thought, "Okay, maybe, maybe that was a bad idea." So I waited a couple weeks and I tried to reintroduce almond butter, organic almond butter, 'cause I wanted something fast, protein fast. And then I had, um, it's like abdominal cramping, diarrhea, then this itch came back.

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:24

      Jesus Christ.

   3. MPMikhaila Peterson16:25

      Yeah. So for the next year, um... Well, I'll slow down. We've got some time. So that was the, that was the almond butter. So then I waited a while and I felt pretty good, and this was November 2015. And then I started feeling really good and I went off of my antidepressants. And I had been taking antidepressants since I was in grade five. A really high dose of, um, an SSRI, which had been very helpful, but-

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:52

      Did you wean yourself off and did you do it under a doctor's supervision?

   5. MPMikhaila Peterson16:55

      No. I didn't-

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:57

      You didn't wean yourself off?

   7. MPMikhaila Peterson16:58

      ... trust... I, I weaned myself down. So I went down to half and then I went to a quarter and then I s- went to an eighth and then I stopped taking it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:04

      Over how long a period of time?

   9. MPMikhaila Peterson17:04

      Two weeks. It was nothing really.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Over two weeks?

   11. MPMikhaila Peterson17:07

       It was two weeks, yeah. I didn't have withdrawal symptoms, like I, I think maybe I was lucky that way.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       And so your diet- And so your diet at this point was?

   13. MPMikhaila Peterson17:15

       Um, so at that point, I was eating rice occasionally, but it was mostly like broccoli, salad, chicken, beef, fish, you know, olive oil, apple cider vinegar, salt, pepper. Um, at that point, I was also eating pears and apples. So it was kinda like paleo, kind of.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       Kinda paleo.

   15. MPMikhaila Peterson17:36

       Very restricted paleo.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:37

       Okay.

   17. MPMikhaila Peterson17:37

       Dairy free. Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:39

       And so you're feeling good, you're off your medication, your joints feel better, no more rashes.

   19. MPMikhaila Peterson17:44

       No more rashes yet, eh, so everything seems to be improving. I was shocked when the depression lifted because I thought, "That runs in my family, that's familial. We have some sort of brain chemistry problem, th- that can't possibly be diet." I thought n- I thought the skin maybe that was diet 'cause of this gluten link. And then maybe 'cause of the celiac gene that I got tested for, maybe the arthritis was part of that, but I never thought mood was associated with it. So that was a surprise in November. Anyway, I went off of the antidepressants and then, um, about a month later, I tried to reintroduce soy and this is when things started getting really weird that year.So I was having-

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:23

       Why are you re- reintroducing things if you're having all these positive benefits?

   21. MPMikhaila Peterson18:27

       I was having cravings like crazy.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:28

       Oh.

   23. MPMikhaila Peterson18:28

       And I would miss eating out. And I thought there were probably like four or five foods I was really sensitive to, and I, if I could just figure out what they were, I could eat pretty normally. I didn't realize, like I didn't know what was going on.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:41

       Okay.

   25. MPMikhaila Peterson18:42

       If I had known, I would've done it much differently.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       Right.

   27. MPMikhaila Peterson18:44

       But I tried to reintroduce soy, 'cause at that point I still thought soy was a health food. Um, so I ate a huge meal of like edamame beans, and bean sprouts, and miso soup that I made myself so it was gluten-free, and soy sauce and tofu. I literally ate soy in every form. And I had the same kind of reaction with almond butter. I had ... Immediately got bloated. I had diarrhea like within maybe 20, 30 minutes of eating it. And I thought, "Okay. That sucks. I guess I can't eat soy." And then about four hours later, my legs got itchy, and then my whole body got itchy. And I was like, "Okay. That sucks. I'm, clearly I'm reacting to soy." And then the next morning, the depression came back, and it came back like ... That was the worst depressive experience I've ever had. Um, I was medication-free, and it came back in the morning. And I got in the shower, and I just like, I bawled in the shower, and thought, "How could I be so naive to think that my horrible autoimmune disorder and the dep- depression and everything was caused by food? Like what an idiotic thing to think. How could I be that hopeful?" And then I had to remind myself, "Okay. No. You ate a whole bunch of this food. Then you had this like digestive distress. Then you got itchy, and now the depression is back. There's clearly a pattern here." But it was hard to think like that-

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MPMikhaila Peterson20:08

       ... when I got that depressed. So that day was like ... I spent a lot of that day crying. Then the next day got worse. And this is, this is when it gets weird. Um, so that night, I went over to my parents and I was just like, "I don't know what's going on," right? Um, and they're like, "Well, do you wanna take a car back to your apartment?" And I said, "I don't think I can drive. Like I can't ... I just can't think. I don't know what's going on." So ju- my brother, um, drove me home, and I was like on the verge of having a panic attack, for no reason, right? It was just like my heart rate was increasing. I was trying to find my keys, and I turned around to look at my brother in the car, and h- his head was a, like a kind of a demon ... This ... (laughs) I know how this sounds. But he had like a demon head for about a second and a half, and he looked at me, and then he turned, and then it was my brother again. So I was standing at the-

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       So you're hallucinating.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   It's crazy, but then…

   1. MPMikhaila Peterson30:00

      It's crazy, but then here's the thing. I started this blog, so the blog's Don't Eat That!

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MPMikhaila Peterson30:04

      And I started this blog because I thought if, for some reason, there's someone else out there like me, and they're googling these things-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MPMikhaila Peterson30:11

      ... it'd be nice for them to know that they're not alone.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:14

      Right.

   7. MPMikhaila Peterson30:15

      And I found other people like this who are equally as sensitive.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:19

      I'm sure. I mean, look, if you exist is, there's probably quite a few people that have that issue. Look-

   9. MPMikhaila Peterson30:23

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       ... makes sense. It makes sense that (coughs) we all, we all have different tolerances, and we all have different allergies.

   11. MPMikhaila Peterson30:29

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:29

       I mean, some people are allergic to cats. Some people have no problem with peanuts. Some people eat a Brazil nut and they die.

   13. MPMikhaila Peterson30:36

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:36

       This is just ... We do-

   15. MPMikhaila Peterson30:37

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       We know this.So the idea-- this is one of the problems with diet is that people wanna think that a diet that works for them works for everybody, and it doesn't work that way. And thing- m- and people want you to follow their diet, no matter what it is, whether it's vegan or paleo, people are very ideological with that.

   17. MPMikhaila Peterson30:53

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       They, they would love you, for you to do exactly what they're doing, so it'll reinforce what they're doing is correct. Um, there's a lot of pushback against this carnivore diet idea. But I don't, uh, I, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that someone like you might actually really be allergic to everything.

   19. MPMikhaila Peterson31:15

       Yeah, I mean, I was, like, very sick, and from coming from that place to now, I can see how sick I was, and it was like I was dying.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       Did you ever-

   21. MPMikhaila Peterson31:23

       I was on a whole bunch of medication. It was bad.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       Did you ever do anything with probiotics?

   23. MPMikhaila Peterson31:27

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Yeah?

   25. MPMikhaila Peterson31:28

       I can't tolerate probiotics.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:29

       You can't tolerate them?

   27. MPMikhaila Peterson31:30

       No. So the original idea was heal my gut-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MPMikhaila Peterson31:33

       ... repopulate with bacteria that maybe I'm missing-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       Mm-hmm.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. It means like,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      What does it mean? Does it mean there's like a thick, wet blanket over your life that you can't get out of?

   2. MPMikhaila Peterson45:04

      Yeah. It means like, eh, there's a couple of things. Um, the closest... It's im- it's impossible to think of when you're not depressed, but the closest I've get to is, if you're in a really, really stressful situation and a whole bunch of things go wrong at the same time, that stress you feel is kind of like a really, really mild version of being depressed.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:24

      Mm-hmm.

   4. MPMikhaila Peterson45:25

      But being depressed is like if you look at something, the colors seem muted. You don't get joy out of anything.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      Like the, this color of the sky, like everything?

   6. MPMikhaila Peterson45:35

      Uh, reds. Like just colors... Everything's in grayscale. Kind of feels like you're walking through molasses. And then you have a whole bunch of anxieties pop up all the time that are like worst-case scenarios of everything in your entire life that won't happen. But that's all you can think of all the time. That's partly anxiety, but it, it's hell. Like I, having arthritis, I would choose arthritis a million times over than this depression.

   7. JRJoe Rogan46:02

      Wow.

   8. MPMikhaila Peterson46:02

      It just wrecks you.

   9. JRJoe Rogan46:04

      So what leads you to the carnivore diet? This lady has been living on it for 18 years. You read about her.

   10. MPMikhaila Peterson46:11

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       And that she's still alive without eating-

   12. MPMikhaila Peterson46:13

       And her Lyme disease gone, and she looks great. There's a before and after picture. She looks great.

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       And is she taking vitamins as well?

   14. MPMikhaila Peterson46:20

       Nothing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       Nothing?

   16. MPMikhaila Peterson46:21

       Beef and salt.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:22

       Right. So this is what you hear. So this anecdotal story is what leads you to give that a try?

   18. MPMikhaila Peterson46:27

       Well, I thought-

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       In what year is this?

   20. MPMikhaila Peterson46:28

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       This is a year ago?

   22. MPMikhaila Peterson46:29

       This is 2017, so December.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       December?

   24. MPMikhaila Peterson46:31

       Almost... Yeah. So not quite a year.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       Okay.

   26. MPMikhaila Peterson46:35

       So I switched over, and then I had these transin- transition symptoms.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       Diarrhea.

   28. MPMikhaila Peterson46:39

       Yeah. That was basically it. Some craving.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       So it's bold to hang in there with six weeks of diarrhea.

   30. MPMikhaila Peterson46:44

       Yeah. But the alternative was like anxiety and itching and arthritis.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:14:50

   Mm-hmm. Hmm. So when…

   1. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:00

      in restaurants where I'm sure the meat's lower quality and I haven't had an autoimmune flare-up with that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:04

      Mm-hmm. Hmm. So when you go out to eat, you know, one of the things you posted the other day was that you had a steak that had pepper on it.

   3. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:12

      Yeah, I had pepper on Monday.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Pepper, like ground pepper? And you were freaking out?

   5. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:16

      I was freaking out on Monday, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      That's pepper.

   7. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:18

      So I was like, I don't know what happens.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

      Wow. That's-

   9. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:21

      It's okay. I'm fine.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

       (laughs) But that's-

   11. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:23

       But yeah, I was freaking out. I was stressed out for the whole day.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       Pepper.

   13. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:26

       But it's like, if it flares, first of all, these flare-ups don't happen instantly.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:30

       So it gives you enough time to freak out about if they're going to happen for a couple days.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       Right.

   17. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:34

       And then it's like a month of an autoimmune disorder and depression and brain fog and not being able to think. And it's horrible.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       Yeah.

   19. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:42

       So yeah, I'm freaked out, but I'm okay. The one thing I've found really helps, the only thing I've found that helps these reactions is an infrared sauna. If I get in there like once a day and sweat.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       Only an infrared one? What about a regular one?

   21. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:55

       Um...

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

       Do you know?

   23. MPMikhaila Peterson1:00:57

       Honestly, no, I don't know.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       You don't know. So the idea just the elevated heat temperature, whether it's infrared or not-

   25. MPMikhaila Peterson1:01:04

       Yeah, I don't know if it's, I've just read all the benefits of infrared.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Mm. What are the-

   27. MPMikhaila Peterson1:01:07

       But I haven't-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       ... benefits over a regular sauna?

   29. MPMikhaila Peterson1:01:10

       Well, there's like longevity studies from Finland.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

       Those are done in a regular sauna.

Episode duration: 1:55:24