Joe Rogan Experience #1168 - Mareko Maumasi

Mareko Maumasi 0:00 ... (humming)

Joe Rogan 0:02 Four, three, two, one. Boom! The lost art of- of knife making-

Mareko Maumasi 0:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:10 ... it's still alive. How are you, man?

Mareko Maumasi 0:12 I'm doing good, man. I really-

Joe Rogan 0:13 Thanks for coming down here. I appreciate it.

Mareko Maumasi 0:14 ... I, I'm fucking huge. I really appreciate you having me down.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Hey, listen, man. You've made two awesome, well, four awesome knives for me, but this one, um, is one I use all the time that, uh, I've posted on Instagram that people freak out, as we were talking about before the podcast. It actually has meteor in it.

Mareko Maumasi 0:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Meteorite. What's ... Meteor's a big one? Meteorite's a little one? Is that the idea? Do you know?

Mareko Maumasi 0:35 I guess. (laughs) Yeah. I don't-

Joe Rogan 0:37 You should know.

Mareko Maumasi 0:38 (laughs) I- j-

Joe Rogan 0:38 You're the knife maker.

Mareko Maumasi 0:39 So, I didn't actually make ... So I made the knife, I forged the knife, but the steel is, is a very special kind of steel that very few people can actually manufacture on a small scale in the world. And that was made by my shop mate, Peter Swarsberg. And so he, um ... The meteorite is kind of a, a small element in the whole matrix because most meteorite is, uh, all nickel or all iron or something like that and this one particularly is a lot of nickel and some cobalt and if you're gonna make a- an actual usable steel out of it, you can't really use a whole lot of it in the overall mixture.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Mm. So is there any meteorites that are made out of all iron?

Mareko Maumasi 1:24 Yeah, definitely.

Joe Rogan 1:25 You just have to find 'em?

Mareko Maumasi 1:26 You just gotta find the ones. Yeah, and there, there are impact sites all over the world. Like they're hitting the world all the time. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:32 How ... So wh- ... Is it w- ... Can you just take 'em? Like when they land, is it yours if you find it?

Mareko Maumasi 1:37 Yep. They-

Joe Rogan 1:38 Like you don't have to report it to NASA or anything, right?

Mareko Maumasi 1:39 No. No. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:40 "Hey, bro."

Mareko Maumasi 1:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:41 "Found some space junk."

Mareko Maumasi 1:43 Most of them are, are, are so small that they ... By the time they-

Joe Rogan 1:46 Get here.

Mareko Maumasi 1:47 ... wh- hit the actual Earth's surface-

Joe Rogan 1:49 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:49 ... they've completely disintegrated or burned up. So it's the really massive ones and this was part of, uh, an impact, I think, in South America.

Joe Rogan 2:00 Oh, wow.

Mareko Maumasi 2:01 I can't remember where exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:02 This is crazy to think-

Mareko Maumasi 2:03 On, on top of a ball-

Joe Rogan 2:03 ... that there's a piece of space in there.

Mareko Maumasi 2:05 Fuck yeah, dude.

Joe Rogan 2:06 There's a dope pattern. Um, I'm really into craftsmanship, man. I've, I always have been. I love handmade pool cues and this desk, which is a handmade desk.

Mareko Maumasi 2:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17 And I feel like it's one of the things that I really appreciate in this modern digital world, and I also feel like, unfortunately, it may be one of the things that's slipping away.

Mareko Maumasi 2:28 It, it definitely is slipping away. I think with, um, you know, with technolo- ... Technology has been great for us in a lot of different ways. Like we couldn't be fucking talking into a piece of metal.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 2:39 And it's recorded on a computer. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:40 It's going through a wire-

Mareko Maumasi 2:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:42 ... flying through the air.

Mareko Maumasi 2:42 Like it does a lot of great things, but in doing all those great things, it actually has taken us away from really creating and working with our hands and so, like, you know, e- even this whole like, uh, farm to table movement where people-

Joe Rogan 2:58 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 2:58 ... even growing their own vegetables.

Joe Rogan 2:59 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 3:00 You got your own chickens. You ... They're, they're laying eggs for you. Like knowing where this stuff is coming from, having like first-hand contact with that, um, just having that relationship in general with it brings so much more value to the overall experience of eating those eggs or using that knife or-

Joe Rogan 3:17 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 3:17 ... sitting at this fucking table right here.

Joe Rogan 3:19 And it seems like a f- a fairly recent movement in that direction, right? Like it feels like things got so digital that people are like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa," with the Facebook and the fucking Instagram. "I want a-"

Mareko Maumasi 3:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:31 "... You know, I want a wood table."

Mareko Maumasi 3:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:33 "I wanna saw this bitch-"

Mareko Maumasi 3:34 Something tangible.

Joe Rogan 3:34 "... myself." Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 3:35 Put your hands on it.

Joe Rogan 3:36 Yeah, I don't want it to be-

Mareko Maumasi 3:37 And get your hands all dirty.

Joe Rogan 3:37 ... plastic. Yeah. I want real stuff and th- there's something about handmade things, whether it's a handmade pair of boots or a handmade bag, like th- it's like there's something about things that are made by hand that people get a, like a deep appreciation of- from.

Mareko Maumasi 3:53 For-

Joe Rogan 3:53 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 3:53 ... sure. Well, and I think it ... I think it also kind of goes back ... Like I was saying, like as technology has advanced, we've kind of grown away from these kind of what's considered like blue-collar work.

Joe Rogan 4:04 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 4:05 And craftsmanship kind of work, but I think people really are driven by a sense of achievement and when you're doing data entry that literally millions of people, fucking monkeys, can be trained to do, not to like diminish anything that anybody's doing, but literally like it's ... To, to be able to go into a craft and to ... A- and have hands-on experience is very, very, very, very different. And that sense of achievement, even when somebody comes out of something and maybe I taught a class on how to make a knife and it looks like a fucking turd, they're gonna think it looks like the most beautiful fucking knife they've ever seen in their life because their hands and their creativity-

Joe Rogan 4:42 They've touched it.

Mareko Maumasi 4:42 Their energy-

Joe Rogan 4:43 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 4:44 ... their, their sweat and prob- probably some of their blood (laughs) is put into creating that thing and that brings that much more value to it.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Yeah, I think that's an issue with people today that have jobs that they don't feel are very fulfilling is that there's no real thing that they're creating at the end, whereas like if you make a table and at the end when you're putting the final sanding on and the final, you know, uh, layer of, of, uh, stain and you're looking at it, you're like, "I fucking made this."

Mareko Maumasi 5:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:10 "Like this is a real thing that I can touch that I made." Just like human beings in our f- current form, we have a ... There's a, a deep connection to making things, physical things and-

Mareko Maumasi 5:21 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 5:21 ... and, and, and a, an appreciation for things that people have made, whether it's, uh, a rifle that somebody made or a knife or, you know, a hammer that's, that someone's made. There's something about that, that we, we just have a real appreciation for. If you can buy a s- ... a knife from the store that's made in a sh- ... I mean, it'll work, you know, some knife that's made in some mass manufacturing process, it'll work and it's fine. I mean, you'll-

Mareko Maumasi 5:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:45 ... you'll appreciate it, but you won't appreciate it like I appreciate this thing. Like every time I take this out, I'm like super careful with it and-

Mareko Maumasi 5:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:52 ... you know, and then the handle, the handle's made out of ... This is a moose antler-

Mareko Maumasi 5:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:56 ... and elk antler, right?

Mareko Maumasi 5:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:57 The elk at the top and the moose at the bottom, so-

Mareko Maumasi 6:00 And I saw your conversation or I listened to your conversation with Guy Ritchie and you brought up that there was ... I think actually Jamie pulled it up and it was like, "Bog oak," and Guy Ritchie-

Joe Rogan 6:08 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 6:08 ... was like, "Bog oak? What bog?"

Joe Rogan 6:10 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 6:10 "Are there American bogs?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:11 (laughs) ... there are-

Mareko Maumasi 6:12 No, I don't know if there are any American bogs. It was from a, a bog in Russia, and it was carbon dated to 5,400 years old.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Jeez.

Mareko Maumasi 6:19 So essentially, it's been sunken in a bog, just sitting there-

Joe Rogan 6:21 That's the other knife that you made for me-

Mareko Maumasi 6:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:24 ... that has a handle made, bog oak.

Mareko Maumasi 6:25 So-

Joe Rogan 6:25 That's, how did, how does one get ahold of bog oak?

Mareko Maumasi 6:28 So, people are raising logs. Like, there actually was a show, I think it was on Discovery Channel or History, where people were, their job was raising logs out of, out of the swamps-

Joe Rogan 6:38 Out of the bogs?

Mareko Maumasi 6:38 ... down in Louisiana and the South, and using, making use of that wood for table projects and craft projects-

Joe Rogan 6:44 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 6:44 ... like this. So that, but that's happening all over the world.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 6:47 And some of that stuff are these ancient logs that have, you know, it's, uh, the right conditions where the log, the tree falls over, it just sits there and steeps, and hangs up.

Joe Rogan 6:58 You know, that's a big thing for pool cue shafts, lakewood shafts. They, they like to take these logs out of the bottom of like, Lake Michigan or something.

Mareko Maumasi 7:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:07 And then they, uh, dry it all out, and then they make shafts out of it. And there's something about it being in the bottom of the water for so long, it does something to the, to the way they feel.

Mareko Maumasi 7:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:17 What do you got there, Jamie?

Mareko Maumasi 7:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:19 That's ancient bog wood artisan dice.

Mareko Maumasi 7:21 Dice. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:22 Oh.

Mareko Maumasi 7:22 Some Dungeons and Dragons shit there, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yeah, that's some, that's some nerd shit right there, son.

Mareko Maumasi 7:26 Just like super polished up, though. It looks cool.

Joe Rogan 7:27 Are those Dungeons and Dragon nerds dice?

Mareko Maumasi 7:29 Sorta, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:30 Nerd dice. (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 7:31 Multi-sided, yeah. Like, 16 sides on that.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Yeah. Now, what would, that was only for a game, right? You wouldn't play dice dice.

Mareko Maumasi 7:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:38 What the... those are fucking wicked.

Mareko Maumasi 7:39 They, they use it for all kinds of different, they're actually like, value holders, for the most part.

Joe Rogan 7:44 Value holders? What do you mean?

Mareko Maumasi 7:45 Yeah, so like, 16, so they count down with the dice, and so they have an actual placeholder sitting there that says 16, 15, 20, whatever. Right.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Oh, you understand Dungeons and Dragons. You might be a dork. (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 7:55 Sometimes I'm a dork. Uh, brother in, um, my brother-in-law, uh, is, uh, Magic the Gathering fiend, and-

Joe Rogan 8:01 Oh, that's super dork. That's for people that get kicked out of the Dungeons and Dragons.

Mareko Maumasi 8:06 Dude, it's, it's, it's just a different iteration of chess, really.

Joe Rogan 8:09 (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 8:09 I mean, it's just, it's all strategies.

Joe Rogan 8:11 Oh, it's definitely not that. What is this? Oh, that's a beautiful handle.

Mareko Maumasi 8:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:15 You know.

Mareko Maumasi 8:17 Oh, Bearing Made. That kid's in Montana. Really good guy. He's a nice kid.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 8:21 Met him a couple years ago in, uh, in Eugene, actually. They do a knife show there every year in April.

Joe Rogan 8:25 So that log, that, that image that you just showed, Jamie, that's bog oak? That's some other like, big chunks of it that they pulled out? Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 8:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Interesting. So, there must be a community of you people, these, these knife-making people.

Mareko Maumasi 8:38 Yeah, there, there are quite a few people who have started getting into the knife making, um, the knife making. Um, espe-

Joe Rogan 8:46 The world of knife making.

Mareko Maumasi 8:48 ... the world (laughs) of knife making. Uh, really, there, the, the resurgence of kind of handcrafted, hand-forged knives kind of started back in the '70s. Um, and it was, it, it stemmed off from, um, I think it was the Custom Knife Making Association, or, uh, yeah, Cuf- Custom Knife Makers Association. And then it stemmed off to the ABS, which is the American Bladesmith Society, and that was all about the forged blade, and kind of the mission to retain that knowledge and that history, and, and the skills that go into actually taking a piece of metal and forging a blade out of it. Like, your blades, they were forged to shape. They, where, uh, one per- approach is to just take a, a bar of steel-

Joe Rogan 9:29 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 9:30 ... trace out a line, cut that out.

Joe Rogan 9:31 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 9:32 With a stock, I mean, it's totally valid way of doing it. Um, forging, the forging aspect, uh, especially if somebody doesn't actually know what they're doing, they're just like, heating up a piece of steel, they don't know how fucking hot it is getting, they don't know how, when to stop hitting it, they may be hitting it too cold. They may be overheating it and hitting it while it's way too hot. Uh, they could really, actually do detrimental damage to the, to the material and turn out a piece of shit.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 9:58 Um, so the forged aspect really just brings kind of an, an aesthetic and kind of a depth of story to help bring kind of more to that product. Um-

Joe Rogan 10:10 Well, it's another level, right, of handcraftmanship.

Mareko Maumasi 10:11 Yeah, it's just another layer of it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:13 Right, it's not just handcrafting something from a, you know, just a piece of metal that you bought, and you put all the pieces together and polished it down and sanded it.

Mareko Maumasi 10:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:21 When did you get into this?

Mareko Maumasi 10:23 So, I (sighs) , uh, it's a kind of a funny story. So, I got into this back in 2008, is when I f- uh, met Bob Kramer. At the time, I was working in a restaurant, uh, actually in my hometown of Olympia. Um, and I was working at a restaurant, I was moonlighting as an assistant salsa dancing instructor and doing like-

Joe Rogan 10:43 (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 10:44 ... uh, uh, like community performances and shit like that. And, uh, I was 24, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing with myself, and I didn't really have much of a direction in my life. I was terrible at school. Um, you know, I had maybe 40 credits towards, towards an AA, but I don't even have a, like an actual certification or degree or any kind. So anyways, I was, I was sharing this with my dance partner, and she had just started working for this guy who was a knife maker, and she's like, "Oh, you should meet him. He's really interesting. Uh, you know, you kind of feel like you're lost. He's been all over the world." He's even like, he was even a clown at one point, and-

Joe Rogan 11:21 This is Bob Kramer?

Mareko Maumasi 11:21 This is for Ring- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:22 He used to be a clown?

Mareko Maumasi 11:23 He was a clown f- I think for a year for Ringling Barnum & Blay- Bailey.

Joe Rogan 11:28 (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 11:29 Um, and from what I understand, it was a great experience, and he loved it, and, uh, but anyways, she's like, "You know, I think you guys would hit it off. I think he, he, you know, maybe he could help bestow some wisdom as to where you're at and where he was at, and maybe what kind of choices or options you have ahead of you." And so, I met up with him, uh, at the brew pub that I was actually working at, and got some beers, got some fish and chips, sitting and bullshitting, and it ended up turning into a, uh, job opportunity. Neither of us really went into it knowing that that's the direction it was gonna go. But, uh, he was anticipating, he had a, an article coming out in The New Yorker, like, in a month, um, that was gonna really, like, blow his shit up. And he had had a couple big articles, like in Saveur Magazine, and he was featured in, uh, Cook's D- Illustrated at one point. And each time, like, there's a huge influx, and so I think in, in part of anticipation for that-... he was like, "Look, you seem like a nice guy. You don't really seem to (laughs) have a direction. Maybe we could work something out. I can't make any promises to you that I have full-time work for you." Um-

Joe Rogan 12:33 So, he just took you on as an apprentice.

Mareko Maumasi 12:35 Essentially.

Joe Rogan 12:36 I saw a video with him-

Mareko Maumasi 12:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 ... with, uh, Anthony Bourdain.

Mareko Maumasi 12:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:38 That's how I found out about him. He was making a knife, uh, with meteors.

Mareko Maumasi 12:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Me-... With a piece of meteorite in it, as well.

Mareko Maumasi 12:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Same kinda thing. And, uh, I remember thinking, like, "Wow, how crazy is this? This guy's hammering this thing together and putting it there." That was, like, one of the ways that I got interested in custom knife making.

Mareko Maumasi 12:56 Sure.

Joe Rogan 12:56 And mind, I'd always had knives. You know, like pocketknives. You know, the-

Mareko Maumasi 13:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:01 ... ƒ. And I always, like, cu-... kind of thought they were cool and enjoyed them.

Mareko Maumasi 13:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:04 But until I watched that video, I, I didn't realize that there was a lot of people out there. There it is.

Mareko Maumasi 13:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:10 Him and, uh, Anthony. I didn't realize there was a lot of people that are out there doing this from scratch. And then, you know, then I was like, "Oh, I gotta get a knife." And then, (laughs) then I saw your page on Instagram, and I remember thinking, "Wow, this guy does some wild shit." And I don't remember how you and I got to chatting. I don't remember. I just remember seeing your stuff on Instagram.

Mareko Maumasi 13:32 Y- you reached out to me, uh, on email, and I was like, "Joe Rogan." I was like, "That can't be."

Joe Rogan 13:37 Was it an email or was it a-

Mareko Maumasi 13:38 That can't... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:39 ... Instagram message?

Mareko Maumasi 13:40 Oh, actually, I'm not sure. I think it was an email.

Joe Rogan 13:42 Email?

Mareko Maumasi 13:43 Either way-

Joe Rogan 13:43 Probably from your website.

Mareko Maumasi 13:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:45 But-

Mareko Maumasi 13:45 Oh, you s-... Had seen my email in one of our previous conversations-

Joe Rogan 13:49 Oh, okay.

Mareko Maumasi 13:50 ... somewhere. But I was like, "This can't be, like, the Joe Rogan." (laughs) And then, as the conversation continued on, and I was like... 'Cause y-... Also, your picture for the email was, like, this goofy picture of you doing, like, kissy face or something like that. It was fucking hilarious, and-

Joe Rogan 14:05 (laughs) That sounds like me. (coughs)

Mareko Maumasi 14:07 (coughs) And I was like, "Holy shit, I think this actually might be Joe Rogan. This is crazy." Um, and... But it's... Doing this craft and doing this work and, and finding and connecting with people who have an appreciation for the actual, like, the actual work that goes into it, and appreciating that value, uh, has been a... (laughs) You know. I ne... Like, even five years ago, when I first started under my own brand, there's no way I would've thought I'd be sitting here, hanging out with you guys. It's kind of a... been a crazy ride for me.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Oh, it's been a crazy ride for me, too, man. All of it is. Life's crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 14:39 I believe it.

Joe Rogan 14:40 But, like I said, I, I've always had a, a deep appreciation for artisans, you know, for, for art. What I... I think this... I think your knife making is art. I mean, I, I really do. Like, look at this. There's... Jamie's pulled up an image from your website that shows this incredible blade design. Now, this is what I've always wanted to know. Like, is that Damascus steel? Is that what that is?

Mareko Maumasi 15:02 That is Damascus, and, and... It's just a quick note. This is actually, uh, a post that I did to celebrate another maker. His name's Julian. You can actually kinda see it there on the right margin.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Now, the, the-

Mareko Maumasi 15:12 But he's a South American kid. He's like 20.

Joe Rogan 15:14 The blades... The blades that you made, that you have here today-

Mareko Maumasi 15:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:17 ... that you had, that you're bringing with you for-

Mareko Maumasi 15:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:19 ... an auction, those... The patterns on those things are fucking insane.

Mareko Maumasi 15:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:24 How do you do that? Like, how do you make these... 'Cause it's not just steel. For people that are just listening to this, like, that one is a great example.

Mareko Maumasi 15:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:33 I would really love, um, for people who are just listening to just please go, uh, spell out... Go... sp- spread out... Go back to the, uh, page, Jamie, so I could see the, the headline. It's stuck. (laughs) Shrink... It's stuck? It's stuck, yeah. What do you mean? You can't shrink it? I got zoomed in, and it won't zoom out. Hmm. Hold on.

Mareko Maumasi 15:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:51 What happened? I don't know. I did it with the touchpad instead of the- What did you... Oh, the touchpad. These goddamn... We got an old-ass laptop there. There you go. Um, M-A-U-M-A-S Fire Arts.

Mareko Maumasi 16:04 M-A-S-I.

Joe Rogan 16:05 S-I. M-A-U-M-A-S-I Fire Arts, Maumasi Fire Arts.

Mareko Maumasi 16:11 Don't get stuck again.

Joe Rogan 16:12 M-A-U... Oh, it's stuck.

Mareko Maumasi 16:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:14 (laughs) M-A-U-M-A-S-I Fire Arts. Uh, if you go there, that's his page. You'll be able to check it out and... Order books are closed. You're fucked.

Mareko Maumasi 16:25 (laughs) Yeah, just-

Joe Rogan 16:26 You gotta back order.

Mareko Maumasi 16:27 Yeah, I, I'm, uh... I'm at three years right now, and I just... kind of, like, I had to shut it down 'cause it's... kind of at a, at a overwhelming point.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 16:34 It... Like, it's a good problem, but it's overwhelming because it's a fucking ******* show.

Joe Rogan 16:38 I can only imagine.

Mareko Maumasi 16:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:39 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 16:40 And balancing doing the work with now the... you know, like, the marketing and branding-

Joe Rogan 16:45 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 16:45 ... maintaining relevance through social media and taking the time to create content on top of all that, it... I mean, especially when you're first starting to do it, uh, the content part, side of it, it *** ti-... time-consuming.

Joe Rogan 16:57 That's a crazy, like, long waiting list, man. Three years.

Mareko Maumasi 17:01 Yeah. And, uh, realistic... M-... Or, uh... It's actually... and at least in the knife-making world, it's not uncommon for people to actually wait longer than that.

Joe Rogan 17:10 It's the same thing with the pool cue world.

Mareko Maumasi 17:11 Right?

Joe Rogan 17:12 It's the exact same thing.

Mareko Maumasi 17:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 17:14 A l-... A lot of these, uh, famous pool cue manufacturers, like Southwest or Sugar Tree, I mean, they have 10-year waiting lists. And it's just because they do it right. It takes a long time. Everything's done by hand.

Mareko Maumasi 17:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:27 They're highly sought-after. And because of that, like, you could buy a pool cue from, uh-

Mareko Maumasi 17:31 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 17:31 ... you know, a company that makes them through, you know, computerized process.

Mareko Maumasi 17:35 Sure.

Joe Rogan 17:36 And they're fine. They play really good. Just like a knife that you'd buy from a store that's c-

Mareko Maumasi 17:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:40 ... you know, made by a machine, and it's all done mass-manufacturing. It'll cut your meat. It works great.

Mareko Maumasi 17:46 Yeah, it gets the job done.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 17:48 But it doesn't feel the same.

Joe Rogan 17:49 It's not the same thing.

Mareko Maumasi 17:50 It doesn't feel... It's crazy. Like, you can feel the difference-

Joe Rogan 17:53 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 17:54 ... between a handmade thing and a machine-made thing.

Joe Rogan 17:57 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 17:58 It's, it's bizarre. It trips me out every time.

Joe Rogan 18:01 Well, there's little something that people leave in things that they make. I mean, there really is. I mean, I, I think it exists in everything that people make, whether it's clothing or jewelry, or furniture, or anything. I mean, I think there's a little something that people leave when they... in, in a thing that they make.

Mareko Maumasi 18:17 What i-... There's something you talk about sometimes about how animals inherit, like... uh, pass down through genes, like-... watch out for this plant or watch out for these-

Joe Rogan 18:26 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 18:26 ... predators and shit like that, like passing something on like that kind of in a way. Like, where I'm toiling over something like that for, you know, 40 dedicated solid fucking hours-

Joe Rogan 18:36 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 18:37 ... making sure it's as perfect as I possibly can make that thing at this point in my life-

Joe Rogan 18:42 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 18:43 ... with the skills I got, and ...

Joe Rogan 18:44 I, I think there's something to that. I mean, I, even if it's just a thought, even if you just know when you touch it, like if I touch this knife, I know that you made this, you know? When I'm, when I'm cutting something with this and I'm cooking, I know that you made this. So maybe it's just even if it's only in my head, it's still ... It just feels different, you know? And I, I, I, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's Rupert Sheldrake who's a ... I don't know what exactly kind of scientist he is, but he has this bizarre theory, and he's a really interesting guy to talk to, so, uh, uh, I would never discount it. He thinks that everything has memory.

Mareko Maumasi 19:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:22 He thinks you just, you just can't access that memory, but he thinks there's things that have memories. And he thinks that our idea that memory is something that only animals and humans possess is, is just, it's probably not true, and that, that's probably one of the reasons why people don't want to buy a house where someone was murdered.

Mareko Maumasi 19:40 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:40 You know what I mean? Like, the idea is that a haunted house-

Mareko Maumasi 19:43 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 19:43 ... even if it's not really a ghost, like maybe that home has memories.

Mareko Maumasi 19:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:48 You know, maybe a ... Like, my dad went to Gettysburg, and, uh, he's not woo-woo at all.

Mareko Maumasi 19:53 Sure.

Joe Rogan 19:53 He's like as fucking straight-laced, across-the-board, no-bullshit as it gets, and he said, "Man, you could feel sadness there." He goes, "You just think of how many thousands of people died at Gettysburg," and he said, "When you're there, it just, it feels sad, like you feel death."

Mareko Maumasi 20:12 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 20:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:14 Yeah. I don't know if that's real or if it's maybe the knowledge that you have that there was a war there. I mean, I don't know.

Mareko Maumasi 20:20 I, I used to do this thing where I would walk through cemeteries.

Joe Rogan 20:23 Hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 20:24 Um, just interested, like looking at people's names and-

Joe Rogan 20:27 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 20:27 ... and like when, when did they live and what do people have to say about them or what, you know, what's left behind. And just walking through cemeteries, like sometimes I would even do it on Halloween to try to creep my ass out.

Joe Rogan 20:38 (laughs) Oh, god.

Mareko Maumasi 20:39 And it's, it's definitely (laughs) feels weird in there-

Joe Rogan 20:41 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 20:41 ... when, when you're there.

Joe Rogan 20:42 It does. I used to run through cemeteries. I used to run through them because, uh, I would, uh, I would want to be reminded that life is short, get something done, make-

Mareko Maumasi 20:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:54 ... something happen-

Mareko Maumasi 20:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:55 ... about all these people that aren't here anymore. But the thing about cemeteries is like they're already dead when they get in there.

Mareko Maumasi 21:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:00 I think like the memory-

Mareko Maumasi 21:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:02 ... thing is like, you know, if you're on a boat and someone gets murdered on that boat and you're in the boat and you're like fucking freaking out like, "Aah."

Mareko Maumasi 21:07 Right, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:10 (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 21:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:11 There's something about ph- like things, like if you had a thing, if you had a, a wallet that Mike Tyson owned, you know what I mean?

Mareko Maumasi 21:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:19 You, you'd hold it, you're like, "Damn." You know? There's something to it. Morphic resonance, okay, that's Rupert Sheldrake's, uh, theory. Uh, according to a theory developed by Rupert Sheldrake, British biologist, uh, paranormal influence by which a pattern of events or behavior can facilitate subsequent occurrences of similar patterns. Oh, that's right. That is, um, that is not about a memory. That is- That's right. That is his other theory.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 21:45 It's referred to in a lot of, uh, other ways about-

Joe Rogan 21:48 Mm-hmm.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 21:48 ... memory is inherent in nature and-

Joe Rogan 21:49 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's part of it.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 21:52 ... just a definition.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Like, I think what I was talking about is part of his theory of morphic resonance. But morphic resonance, I think he's, he ... Yeah. It's here, it says that ... Hold on, scroll back. Scroll down. So the process whereby self-organizing systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. So what he was talking about with morphic resonance was, um, how mice, if they learn, um, like say if you have a pattern and there's like cheese at the end of this pattern and then-

Mareko Maumasi 22:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:18 ... they go through a maze. If one mouse figures out that pattern, other mouse can figure it out quicker. And there's something, somehow or another, they learn from each other.

Mareko Maumasi 22:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:28 And when, uh, chimpanzees were observed using tools, other chimpanzees on the other side of the world started mimicking that behavior without any interaction with those chimpanzees at all.

Mareko Maumasi 22:38 Wait, what? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:40 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 22:40 What? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:40 Yeah, yeah, very strange.

Mareko Maumasi 22:42 That's like fucking Butterfly Effect shit right there.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Well, it's more intense than Butterfly Effect 'cause it implies that there's some sort of collective information pool that they're sharing, um, through the ether, that there's some, something-

Mareko Maumasi 22:57 Man.

Joe Rogan 22:57 ... that they, they're sharing through some unknown method.

Mareko Maumasi 23:01 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 23:02 Yeah. No, it's been a pr- it's, it's actually been shown that there is some sort of a, uh, there, there's something to this. And there's a lot of criticism of it, so-

Mareko Maumasi 23:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:13 ... if you're one of those people right now that's like a strict materialist and you're screaming out-

Mareko Maumasi 23:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:18 ... I get it. I get it. For someone who's a real rationalist who just wa- wants only science, provable. The thing is it is kind of provable because there's, there is, there has been some tests, and there's fierce opposition to this, which, uh, anything that has like some woo-woo attached to it's gonna have some-

Mareko Maumasi 23:34 For sure.

Joe Rogan 23:34 ... fierce opposition. But Rupert was a really fascinating guy, and he's also a rare scientist that's ... He, he, he, uh, was he was Christian? Is that what it was?

Mareko Maumasi 23:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:45 He's really into ... He has a certain level of Christianity that he, uh, accepts and adopts 'cause he feels like it's beneficial to him. Very interesting guy.

Mareko Maumasi 23:56 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 23:57 Yeah, I did a podcast with him a few years back.

Mareko Maumasi 23:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:59 He's a trip. Him and, um, uh ... There was a mathematician and Terence McKenna. Who was the other gentleman? They were, the, it was the trialogues. They had these fantastic recordings. It was Sheldrake, McKenna, and one other guy who was also brilliant, and they would go back and forth. They had these, um-

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 24:22 Ralph Abram.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Ralph Abraham. Abrams or Abraham?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 24:25 Abraham.

Joe Rogan 24:26 Abraham. And they, um, they did these series of talks.And, uh, this is one of the things that came up. Like, McKenna was the most woo-woo.

Mareko Maumasi 24:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:35 Ralph Abraham was the least woo-woo. And Sheldrick was kind of in the middle.

Mareko Maumasi 24:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 24:41 Fucking balance.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Interesting stuff if you're ever-

Mareko Maumasi 24:43 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 24:43 ... hanging around. Yeah, the trialogs, there it is. There, the recordings are still available somewhere. I think-

Mareko Maumasi 24:49 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 24:50 ... um, our friend, uh, Psychedelic Salon, I think Lorenzo has them. Are they available online?

Mareko Maumasi 24:57 Bam.

Joe Rogan 24:58 Oh, there you go.

Mareko Maumasi 24:59 Good shit.

Joe Rogan 24:59 Bam.

Mareko Maumasi 24:59 Sounds fun.

Joe Rogan 25:00 Yeah, they're fucking cool, man.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 25:01 I can't actually play it. I don't know why.

Joe Rogan 25:02 You can't play it?

Mareko Maumasi 25:03 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Mm-hmm.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 25:04 Or maybe it was there and I got to take it down. Yeah, that, yeah, that is the case. It looks like I got it removed.

Joe Rogan 25:08 Hm. Yeah, someone's probably selling it.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 25:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:11 It's really cool, though. They're, you know, you get to see these guys in the 1990s pre-internet. Was it pre-internet? Might not have been. It might be like '98. I think McKenna died around 2000-ish. He died post- ... I want to say he died like 2003 or something. When did he die? Why am I asking this?

Mareko Maumasi 25:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:37 This is all about memory and things. This is ... We went on a fucking deep road off into the woods here.

Mareko Maumasi 25:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:43 But, uh, anybody who's listening-

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 25:44 Uh, 2000, around then.

Joe Rogan 25:45 2000, yeah. So he made it to Y2K and then he kicked the bucket. Um, anybody who's, uh, just interested in really cool conversations, it's something to listen to.

Mareko Maumasi 25:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:56 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 25:56 That sounds very interesting.

Joe Rogan 25:57 Yeah, just three super smart dudes kind of debating ideas and bouncing them around off each other.

Mareko Maumasi 26:02 You know what I've actually gotten into recently, is listening to, uh, old recordings of like, uh, Alan Watts.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Oh, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 26:09 And like-

Joe Rogan 26:10 Oh, he was great.

Mareko Maumasi 26:10 ... reading Joseph Campbell and just like-

Joe Rogan 26:14 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 26:14 ... I don't know, just absorbing it and trying to figure out what that means to me today.

Joe Rogan 26:19 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 26:19 In this like-

Joe Rogan 26:21 The hero's journey?

Mareko Maumasi 26:21 ... very different world. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:22 Yeah, Watts is a fascinating guy, plus that accent made him sound so much cooler.

Mareko Maumasi 26:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:28 (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 26:28 Drone out and long better drone better.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 26:33 His ... Actually the first time I ever got into a good, uh, like a, uh, like a meditative space was a meditation led by Alan Watts from like, I don't know, when the fuck he was, like 60, 70s.

Joe Rogan 26:45 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 26:46 And just the way he explained it, for me, like it was the first time it ever made sense how meditation should ... He's like, "Don't try to not think of anything, but just accept them, that they're there. And, but also ignore them at the same time."

Joe Rogan 27:00 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 27:00 It was weird and then I just totally like, I felt like I was above myself watching me just sitting there listening to this recording. It was a trip.

Joe Rogan 27:09 Well, he was such a heady guy. The, just the sound of his voice and just hearing his thoughts. When you, when you hear a really deep thinker like him, one of the things that it does is it kind of gets you into that pattern of thought and you realize like, oh, I can probably kind of sort of think that way too. If I just allow myself to be guided by his words and sort of try to pay attention to how he's doing this.

Mareko Maumasi 27:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:31 He's, um, he was an interesting guy because not just was he a deep thinker, but his, the, the influences of those people, it's, it's very different. Like there's very few recordings even back then for them to listen to. You know, this stuff was based on reading, um, and their education and their actual life experiences, so they were very unique and original. They were really the cornerstones for a lot of these deep philosophical ideas, you know. And so then when you hear an Alan Watts recording today, you know, maybe someone like me or some other people that listen to that, they'll might, might, uh, share those ideas or reflect on those ideas, but clearly these are not my ideas. These are ideas that have come from these intense cornerstone people, whether it's McKenna or Alan Watts or someone like that. Do you get a chance while you're, when you're working, do you listen to shit or do you just-

Mareko Maumasi 28:27 Yeah. I got all the time to sit and listen.

Joe Rogan 28:30 Do you have headphones or like, 'cause-

Mareko Maumasi 28:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:31 ... it seems like it'd be loud as fuck.

Mareko Maumasi 28:33 Yeah. So I just got ahold of these, uh, like Bluetooth head, head, like earbuds.

Joe Rogan 28:37 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 28:37 And they have like this memory foam. So they, uh, memory foam earbud like tips so that it helps reduce the amount of noise that's actually coming in, so it helps protect it in that way just kind of in general, like a normal like, uh, in- inner ear plug would work. But also because it's reducing the amount of noise that's getting in, you can also listen at a lower volume so you're not like blowing out your ears to be able to hear-

Joe Rogan 29:01 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 29:01 ... whatever you're listening to.

Joe Rogan 29:02 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 29:02 Like you wouldn't through normal earbuds.

Joe Rogan 29:04 Right, 'cause it's so loud in your shop.

Mareko Maumasi 29:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 29:07 So much noise. It's, whenever I'm working, like especially if somebody happens to pop by the shop and they want to see and like they're just curious, and so we have stuff going on or we can heat some steel up real quick and do a quick demonstration, usually I don't take the time to throw all that stuff in. And fuck, it is so loud. I actually feel like my hearing has become more sensitive since I started making knives than it was before. Um-

Joe Rogan 29:31 It's probably your ears getting beat up.

Mareko Maumasi 29:32 Well, n- uh-

Joe Rogan 29:33 Do you always have earplugs in?

Mareko Maumasi 29:34 I always have hea- hearing protection in so, so my hearing is always protected, so I feel like it's become more sensitive.

Joe Rogan 29:40 Oh.

Mareko Maumasi 29:40 I have a better sense of hearing. I don't know if that's possible to get your hearing back or whatever, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 29:46 Maybe you're protecting it-

Mareko Maumasi 29:47 ... it's strange.

Joe Rogan 29:48 ... and it's doing better because of that.

Mareko Maumasi 29:49 Yeah. I just, I hear a lot of thing, like all the things it feels like whenever I take my hearing, or the, your hearing protection out. I'll be at home or something and I'll be like, "What the fuck's that noise?" And my wife looks at me like I'm fucking crazy. I'm just like, "What the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 30:03 I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if like maybe if like, you know, people don't use their hands and then the hands get soft.

Mareko Maumasi 30:10 I don't know. I have pretty soft-

Joe Rogan 30:11 And then you don't use them.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:11 I know (clears throat) you can't gain it back-

Mareko Maumasi 30:15 Okay.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:15 ... but you might be protecting it longer.

Mareko Maumasi 30:17 Okay.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:17 And since you're, have a sensitivity issue maybe, since it's quieter all day, your hearing gets better.

Joe Rogan 30:21 So if you blow it out from like concerts and shit like that, that's it?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:24 That's all there is. All you can do is get a hearing aid.

Joe Rogan 30:26 Oh yeah, it's like, um-

Mareko Maumasi 30:26 What about the little hairs that pick up the vibrations?

Joe Rogan 30:28 Or is it stem cells or some shit, if they've done-

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:30 I don't think-

Mareko Maumasi 30:30 Do they figure out a way to do that yet?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:31 ... they've done it yet. Yeah, just three super smart dudes kind of debating ideas and bouncing them around off each other. 'Cause it's literally, what you're hearing with is a f- like a hair follicle.

Joe Rogan 30:34 It's vibrating.

Mareko Maumasi 30:35 Right. It's vibrating.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:35 Yeah, and it's, you can't-

Joe Rogan 30:36 And you blow that shit out?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:37 They haven't synthetically made those yet or regrow them yet.

Joe Rogan 30:40 Damn, man. I feel so bad for those old rock stars that didn't know any better and now they, they're just fucking peaking. (laughs)

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:45 Huey Lewis, that just happened to him.

Joe Rogan 30:47 Oh, geez.

Mareko Maumasi 30:47 Huey Lewis?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 30:48 He can't, he can't play anymore all of a sudden.

Joe Rogan 30:50 That's the Lord's work.

Mareko Maumasi 30:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:52 ... just kidding. Just kidding, Huey. It's hip to be square. Um, yeah, man, it's fucked up. Like, the dude from AC/DC? Who else?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 31:00 Angus Young.

Joe Rogan 31:01 Yeah, Angus is gone.

Mareko Maumasi 31:02 Oh, Jesus. Really?

Joe Rogan 31:03 Deaf, yeah. Fucking everybody's going deaf. Yeah.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 31:06 They also probably didn't protect themselves-

Joe Rogan 31:08 Mm-mm.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 31:08 ... like you should have.

Mareko Maumasi 31:09 Nobody knew any better back then. Have you ever seen that documentary, it's an older one, "older one", it was, like, from the early 2000s. But this woman, she, uh, progressively got deafer and deafer as she grew older until, like, I think sh- in high school or something, like, she was, like, practically completely deaf. But she's a percussionist. And she's, like, a world-renowned percussionist. There's this, uh, awesome documentary, it's called, uh, Touch The Sound, and she hears through her body, which is a fu- it trips me out. But the tones that she's able to achieve, the control she has over everything, whatever kind of instrument she's playing, it's, it's a awesome documentary.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 31:50 But she has almost literally no hearing. She hears everything through her body.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Dude.

Mareko Maumasi 31:56 So it's kind of interesting to think, like, if Angus could figure that shit out, then... I mean, he's holding the fucking thing in his hand the whole time. He's standing in front of-

Joe Rogan 32:05 But see, it's not just Angus. The lead singer-

Mareko Maumasi 32:07 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 32:08 ... who's the lea- what's the lead singer's name? The fuck's his name? Second lead singer.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 32:13 Brian Johnson.

Joe Rogan 32:14 Brian Johnson.

Mareko Maumasi 32:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:15 Sure. God, how'd I forget that? He's gone deaf, too.

Mareko Maumasi 32:18 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 32:19 Angus and Brian. And, and Angus is, like, always headbanging. What kind of CTE does that guy have?

Mareko Maumasi 32:25 Oh, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 32:26 I mean, fucking Christ, he shouldn't be doing that.

Mareko Maumasi 32:29 God, you were talking to DDP about that the other day.

Joe Rogan 32:32 (buzzing sound) (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 32:32 (laughs)

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 32:33 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 32:33 And I was th- I was thinking, like, all through high school, like, I played football from seventh grade all through high school. And, like, all the stuff they're learning now, I'm just like, "Jesus, what the fuck was happening to me?"

Joe Rogan 32:44 Dude, CTE is no joke.

Mareko Maumasi 32:45 And we always led with our head.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Mm-hmm. Of course, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 32:48 And my neck was always all kinds of fucked up.

Joe Rogan 32:50 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 32:51 And, you know, I definitely had some serious concussions (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 32:55 I'm sure.

Mareko Maumasi 32:56 And, yeah. Uh, sometimes it scares me and worries me a little bit, like, what does that mean for me now?

Joe Rogan 33:02 For sure.

Mareko Maumasi 33:02 And-

Joe Rogan 33:03 How old are you now?

Mareko Maumasi 33:04 34.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Yeah, man. I'm-

Mareko Maumasi 33:05 Just turned 34.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Um, it's scary. You know, you're lucky you stopped when you did. I know, uh, (sighs) I know a lot of people with brain damage. Me too. I, I'm sure I have some. I guaranteed, I must. I mean, I don't think anybody rides for free.

Mareko Maumasi 33:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:20 I think you get hit in the head enough, you got some brain damage, you know? I got hit in the head on a regular basis for m- most, most of my younger years, from, like, 15 till, like, 22.

Mareko Maumasi 33:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:34 I got hit in the head all the time. It's just, you, nobody knew any better, you know? And back then, you thought that, like, once you got... Like, once you were slurring your words and stuff, if you just stopped, like, "Oh, he's a little punchy, he should stop."

Mareko Maumasi 33:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Like, that's how people thought. But they didn't realize that it's regressive, and then, like, you, you don't even really show brain damage for, like, 10 years after the in- initial injuries.

Mareko Maumasi 33:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:58 That's when you really start showing damage. So some, some CTE just compounds it until it just becomes unmanageable for these poor people.

Mareko Maumasi 34:07 Yeah, fuck. Yeah. Well, and it's g- I actually, I can't, especially after watching Concussion and, and seeing and reading, like, articles about the real-life people that this shit's happened to, I, like, I have a hard time watching football. And, like, I used to watch football all the time. I mean, I've, I've never been, like, crazy into sports, knowing all the stats and every stuff.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 34:25 I enjoyed watching, like, a good contest. I never really rooted for anybody. But now when I see, like, even kids signing to draft or signing up from high school to go to a certain college, I'm like, "Man, that's somebody's fucking baby-

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 34:37 ... just fucking tearing themselves up." Like, is that worth it?

Joe Rogan 34:41 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 34:41 Is that worth it?

Joe Rogan 34:42 I, I'd, I'd-

Mareko Maumasi 34:42 It's-

Joe Rogan 34:44 ... I would support kids fighting way before I would support kids, um, doing football. And both of them, I'd be nervous about.

Mareko Maumasi 34:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:52 And, you know, I mean, there's other stuff, like X Games-type shit, people that are into extreme sports and, you know, people that are into snowboarding. Snowboarders wipe out all the time and crack their head open.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:03 What'd you have?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:03 Can you get a scholarship in martial arts of any kind?

Joe Rogan 35:06 I don't think so.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:06 Like, through college?

Joe Rogan 35:07 Just wrestling.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:08 I mean, that's, like, a big, that's a big driver right there, though.

Joe Rogan 35:10 Right. Wrestling-

Mareko Maumasi 35:11 Well, that's where the money's at, right?

Joe Rogan 35:12 Wrestling's certainly a martial art. It's probably one of the most important martial arts, it's just-

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:15 But other than that, that's probably it, right?

Joe Rogan 35:17 Yeah, that's it. I mean, judo, maybe. Is there a school that has judo? They used to have boxing in schools. I mean, back in, like, '50s and '60s and shit, there was, b- boxing was, uh, a legitimate sport in college. But not anymore.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 35:30 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:31 You know?

Mareko Maumasi 35:31 Yeah, it just, I can't really watch it anymore.

Joe Rogan 35:34 I mean, you have to be careful, like, with your hand-eye coordination and your fingers and shit now.

Mareko Maumasi 35:39 Oh, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 35:39 You know? I mean, you, you, you got to think, like, y- when you're working with hammers and hot metal and you, you must always have to be super aware-

Mareko Maumasi 35:49 Grinders.

Joe Rogan 35:49 ... 'cause everybody that works-

Mareko Maumasi 35:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:50 ... in a machine shop is missing a fingertip or something's fucked up, you know.

Mareko Maumasi 35:53 There's crazy stories too. Like, buffer, the buffer, like, the fluffy little things? Like-

Joe Rogan 35:58 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 35:59 ... one of the most dangerous things, 'cause it catches an edge.

Joe Rogan 36:02 Oh, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 36:02 Just like if you're snowboarding, you catch a bad edge-

Joe Rogan 36:04 And just pa-pang.

Mareko Maumasi 36:05 ... and it, it bites, the blade bites into that and it acts as a hand and just rips it, flings it wherever.

Joe Rogan 36:13 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Mareko Maumasi 36:13 It's thrown knives right back into guys and fucking killed them.

Joe Rogan 36:16 Oh, fuck, man.

Mareko Maumasi 36:17 Yeah, I'm, my wife probably hating me saying that right now (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 36:21 Yeah. Well-

Mareko Maumasi 36:21 But it, this is reality. I've done, I've actually done a lot of work to get away from using buffers because of that. And I'm still, like, doing great work. I just, I have a lot of friends who just, they'll never touch a fucking buffer, because it's just terrifying.

Joe Rogan 36:34 Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 36:34 It's scary. Because it-

Joe Rogan 36:35 What does a buffer look like for people who don't know?

Mareko Maumasi 36:37 It's hell.

Joe Rogan 36:37 Put up, like, what, what would you call it? Maybe show them.

Mareko Maumasi 36:39 Um, like a, a buffing...Shit, I don't know. (laughs) It usually is like a-

Joe Rogan 36:44 Like, what do you work with?

Mareko Maumasi 36:44 Usually it's like a- a bench top thing, like a bench grinder. Usually it has, like, the- the hard, wheat, round, stone wheel on one side of it.

Joe Rogan 36:51 Is that it?

Mareko Maumasi 36:51 That's it right there.

Joe Rogan 36:52 Those motherfuckers, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 36:53 That's-

Joe Rogan 36:53 Oh, don't... It's not one fucking that's gonna kick?

Mareko Maumasi 36:56 No, no. It's gonna go ... It's not a- (sighs) (laughs) Make me nervous.

Joe Rogan 36:59 Yeah, that look like one.

Mareko Maumasi 37:00 That looks like something ... So if you fucked up and you got that blade too close-

Joe Rogan 37:04 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 37:04 It would kick it and then- (laughs) ... fling you? So that one is- is what's called a sisal wheel so it's- it's made from a ty- that type of rope. But the- the ones that are the most dangerous are the softer cotton wheels-

Joe Rogan 37:15 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 37:15 ... because they wanna grab-

Joe Rogan 37:16 Coin.

Mareko Maumasi 37:17 ... that much easier. They have more give. Ooh. Um, but yeah, it's ... And what's interesting is I've actually been cut less working in a- in a metal shop than I ever did working in a ... and- and burned less than I ever did working in- in kitchens. I worked in restaurants, back of house, like, for seven years collectively and most of that has to do with other people not calling, like, "Hot, coming across."

Joe Rogan 37:42 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 37:42 And then it fucking ... I turn around. They don't call it.

Joe Rogan 37:44 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 37:44 I turn around and they're there with this fucking saute pan right in the side of my arm- (sizzling sound) ... and I'm ready to fucking drop it. (laughs) Fucking hell.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 37:51 But it's ... Being in a metal shop, like you said, you do have to pay so much attention. You have to be focused at what you're doing because literally everything in that fucking shop wants to hurt you or kill you the second you're not paying attention.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 38:05 'Cause the second you're not paying attention, it's gonna grab you. Like, there are horror stories of people working next to machines and they have long hair. (groans) Gets caught in the motor and it just fucking ... Rips it. Scalps like, just- Woo. ... straight (blows air) .

Joe Rogan 38:20 Yikes.

Mareko Maumasi 38:20 Terrible stuff. Terrible stuff. You guys see Fighter and the power tool last week?

Joe Rogan 38:24 Oh yeah, he got a power tool stuck in his balls?

Mareko Maumasi 38:26 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 38:26 Who was that?

Mareko Maumasi 38:27 I don't remember his name, I think-

Joe Rogan 38:29 Yeah, poor bastard. Yeah, you got a-

Mareko Maumasi 38:32 B- uh, Brian Wilson-

Joe Rogan 38:33 Yeah, got a drill-

Mareko Maumasi 38:34 ... claims that, uh, he lost his hearing due to not plu- putting in ear plugs at a car race, not music. Mm.

Joe Rogan 38:39 (clears throat) Specifically. He's ... There was a quote.

Mareko Maumasi 38:42 Brian Wilson from The Beach Boys?

Joe Rogan 38:44 Uh, Brian Wilson from The Beach Boy- or I'm sorry. He ... This article has him at the top, Brian Johnson, I believe is-

Mareko Maumasi 38:50 Oh, Brian Johnson.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Yeah, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 38:52 From Cars?

Joe Rogan 38:53 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 38:53 Well, how the fuck does he know? That's what he said. The motherfucker is in AC/DC. (laughs) Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you think that'd be loud too, bro? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:59 Uh, Angus Young says it ... He lost a little bit but he's ... His quote says that he never really had a problem with it 'cause that's why he was running around on stage so much too. He's never in one place so long, like-

Mareko Maumasi 39:09 To stay away from.

Joe Rogan 39:09 But-

Mareko Maumasi 39:10 I don't know, it's silly.

Joe Rogan 39:10 So it's just the fucking loudness of the room.

Mareko Maumasi 39:12 (clears throat) It's silly but-

Joe Rogan 39:13 That's hilarious. First concert I ever saw, AC/DC.

Mareko Maumasi 39:16 First concert I ever saw, AC/DC. I wonder if people are more susceptible, just like some people are more susceptible to CTE. Yeah, remember Rhonda Patrick was talking about certain genes that you have? What is it? Apropos ... I forget what it was called. But whatever genes that make you more susceptible and more likely to get CTE from concussions.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Problem. It'll probably have to be something that ... Yeah, for sure. Probably, makes sense. Now, when you're in that shop-

Mareko Maumasi 39:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:42 ... and you're- you're- you're- you're doing all this grinding, so is there any concern about chemicals? Like, is there chemical ingestion or smells in the air, things like that? 'Cause you're- you're dipping things and you got all this stuff that you're using.

Mareko Maumasi 39:55 Yeah, especially if you're working with synthetic. I mean, any- any material that you're grinding, um, you're making it ... It's airborne. Like, any of it can go into your lungs.

Joe Rogan 40:05 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 40:05 I'm almost always wearing a respirator.

Joe Rogan 40:08 Oh, wow.

Mareko Maumasi 40:09 Especially when I'm grinding. Um, and it's like double can, always, like, covering up my face like-

Joe Rogan 40:14 Does it work? Does the respirator-

Mareko Maumasi 40:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:15 ... filter out all of it?

Mareko Maumasi 40:16 It makes a huge difference. In fact ... Excuse me. Where I have my facial hair right now, even this little bit, what you got even, that little bit, is enough to-

Joe Rogan 40:25 Create a little gap and it can get through that, so you have to shave your face smooth?

Mareko Maumasi 40:29 Yeah, usually I keep it pretty well.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Now-

Mareko Maumasi 40:31 Trimmed down but ...

Joe Rogan 40:31 ... um, how the fuck do you create those patterns, like Damascus steel?

Mareko Maumasi 40:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:35 What- what is that? Oh, this doesn't have too much of a pattern.

Mareko Maumasi 40:37 That one's not the, uh, Damascus steel unfortunately.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 40:40 It's beautiful though.

Joe Rogan 40:41 Yeah. Now, what- what does create those ... Like that.

Mareko Maumasi 40:44 There you go.

Joe Rogan 40:44 How do you do that? We're looking at a crazy image that looks like ... It almost looks like someone drew on it.

Mareko Maumasi 40:50 Yeah. (laughs) This is, uh, this is a pattern I just came up with recently. It's called ... I call it the braid mosaic, for lack of better term. Um, but it just looks like a braid and it's something I've been wanting to create and-

Joe Rogan 41:02 How do you create it?

Mareko Maumasi 41:03 ... I finally figured it out. So essentially wha- ... To create pattern-welded Damascus, uh, first off, Damascus is kind of a blanket ... Has become a blanket term. Traditionally and originally it actually referred to the steel that ... Like, the type of steel that your knife, this knife, the Meteorite knife, is made from. And it eventually became a blanket term for all kinds of, kind of, patterned steel in general, whether it's ... It- it curves naturally or if it's kind of forced and created the way that braid pattern was made. Um, so that's pattern-welded steel and so you have to start with at least two, uh, different types of high-carbon steel. Ideally, s- steels that heat treat in a similar range. When you heat them up and squish on them, they've ... They move at a similar rate and so, uh, most commonly, people are working with 1080 and 15 and 20. Those are just codes for two different types of high-carbon steel but essentially you bring them up to a high temperature, you, uh, you squish them, uh, either under a big hammer or under a press. You can even actually do it by hand but you have to do kind of a smaller billet, uh, to create the patterns and get it to stick 'cause the trick is really getting, um, getting them close eive- evenly squishing it out. And it's like, um, if you've ever like rolled out dough or anybody who's ever made like pastry dough, like you would use in a croissant.

Joe Rogan 42:26 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 42:26 You tear open a croissant you see all those layers in there and that's from a piece of dough being rolled out, folded over, rolled out t- ... And so it's kind of the same fucking thing-

Joe Rogan 42:35 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 42:35 ... but with metal, but you have to have the kind of, uh, the right kind of (gasps) temperature environment, kind of, uh, you- you want as little oxygen in there as possible 'cause the oxy- oxygen creates carbon, um-... or not carbon, but iron oxide that help, uh... kind of is detrimental to creating solid weld bonds. And there are different ways to achieve that, but, um, once the 1080 is the black steel, the black color, and the 15 and 20 is the, is the silver color in this.

Joe Rogan 43:05 And what's the difference in the way those steels perform? Is one of them-

Mareko Maumasi 43:08 So-

Joe Rogan 43:08 ... harder or more durable, or-

Mareko Maumasi 43:09 (clears throat) So, they pretty much-

Joe Rogan 43:10 ... holds an edge more?

Mareko Maumasi 43:11 They pretty much form almo- or perform almost exactly the same. They're, they're in f- in fact, chemically speaking, they're almost exactly the same, except for the 15 and 20, uh, has a high level of nickel in it, 0.2% by volu- or by weight. And so that steel is traditionally used in saw blades, especially large, big, uh, mill band saws. Um, you know, like in Oregon, there's... Like, one of the oldest and continuously running, uh, w- wood sawmill is still there and doing its thing with these giant band saw blades that are, like, 30 feet in di- or, uh-

Joe Rogan 43:49 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 43:49 ... in circumference, and they're, like, foot wide, and they're just monsters. And, um-

Joe Rogan 43:55 Foot wide? You mean, like, thick?

Mareko Maumasi 43:57 No, no, no. Like, they're only, like, maybe a 16th of an inch thick, because-

Joe Rogan 44:01 Oh, right.

Mareko Maumasi 44:01 ... you want a narrow saw curve-

Joe Rogan 44:03 To cut through, right.

Mareko Maumasi 44:03 ... so you're not wasting the material. But they're wide to help prevent-

Joe Rogan 44:06 Oh, 15... Okay.

Mareko Maumasi 44:07 ... deflection, to keep it from-

Joe Rogan 44:08 Oh, I see.

Mareko Maumasi 44:08 ... kind of twisting off.

Joe Rogan 44:08 So it's a band saw. I'm thinking of a circular saw for some reason.

Mareko Maumasi 44:11 Sorry, yeah. Band saw.

Joe Rogan 44:12 That was my idea. Sorry.

Mareko Maumasi 44:13 So the circular saw, uh, those saw curves are usually probably around an eighth of an inch to a quarter of an inch thick, but it's-

Joe Rogan 44:20 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 44:20 ... the same kind of idea, is that they're, they're trimming down these giant logs so they need-

Joe Rogan 44:25 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 44:25 ... a big fucking saw with their circular-

Joe Rogan 44:27 Those bind and break, man. That must be a fucking nightmare.

Mareko Maumasi 44:31 Yeah. Don't, don't-

Joe Rogan 44:31 That's got to be so terrible.

Mareko Maumasi 44:32 You don't want to be standing right there when that happens.

Joe Rogan 44:34 Have you seen an original samurai sword?

Mareko Maumasi 44:37 I've seen a few, actually.

Joe Rogan 44:38 This one's from the 1500s. Check this shit out.

Mareko Maumasi 44:40 Yeah, let's see it. Oh, shit. Th- this is the one that, uh, Mr.-

Joe Rogan 44:44 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 44:44 ... Neil deGrasse Tyson was-

Joe Rogan 44:45 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 44:46 ... posing with the other day. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:49 That's a real one.

Mareko Maumasi 44:51 Do-

Joe Rogan 44:51 That's an actual real samurai sword-

Mareko Maumasi 44:53 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 44:54 ... from the 1500s.

Mareko Maumasi 44:55 Yeah, I see the ray skins. Nice.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 44:58 Do you know when it was made exactly?

Joe Rogan 45:01 I don't think they know.

Mareko Maumasi 45:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 45:02 They just know it's from some time period in the 1500s. But there's a-

Mareko Maumasi 45:07 For sure, for sure.

Joe Rogan 45:07 ... cert- certificate of authentication that came with it that explains.

Mareko Maumasi 45:13 I'm just looking to see what the hamon activity looks like.

Joe Rogan 45:16 What's that mean?

Mareko Maumasi 45:16 So the hamon is, uh... You can kind of see this line that runs parallel to the cutting edge, and that usually indicates where the soft material stops and the hard material starts. Um, and so the idea with these kind of... uh, the challenge with any knife is making a knife that takes and holds a sharp edge-

Joe Rogan 45:42 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 45:43 ... for a good period of time, um-

Joe Rogan 45:45 And what's the key to that?

Mareko Maumasi 45:45 ... but is also tough, which means, like-

Joe Rogan 45:48 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 45:48 ... you can drop it and it's not gonna break.

Joe Rogan 45:50 Right. So, like, if you wanted a hunting knife or something like that.

Mareko Maumasi 45:53 So, a hunting knife, a bush knife-

Joe Rogan 45:55 That's gonna hit bone.

Mareko Maumasi 45:55 ... a bowing knife. Those are harder working knives, so you want to actually bring that hardness down. You don't have to bring it down a ton, um, but just a few points will make a huge fucking difference in how it performs.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Like this knife here.

Mareko Maumasi 46:06 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 46:07 Like, what's the difference in the way that knife is made and this knife is made?

Mareko Maumasi 46:10 So, they were tempered. They were heat treated the same.

Joe Rogan 46:13 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 46:13 So they were brought up to, uh, like, 1500 degrees, and then-

Joe Rogan 46:17 For people who don't, not listen, or listening, not watching, this is... One of these knives is a hunting knife that, uh...

Mareko Maumasi 46:23 How does that feel, by the way?

Joe Rogan 46:24 It's great, man.

Mareko Maumasi 46:25 Comfortable?

Joe Rogan 46:25 Love it. Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 46:26 Nice.

Joe Rogan 46:27 Um, but it's, uh, it's made very similarly. If you look into the, um, the video of it, the handle is the same and it looks as, it looks very similar. It has a different knife guard, though. That's pretty cool.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 46:41 Hold that line. Hold that little line.

Mareko Maumasi 46:42 It's higher.

Joe Rogan 46:44 Like that? Okay.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 46:44 There you go.

Mareko Maumasi 46:44 Yeah, the guard keeps your, keeps your hand from sliding up.

Joe Rogan 46:47 Yeah, and I like the way you made the handle too. It's an interesting handle. It curves and everything.

Mareko Maumasi 46:52 Yeah. It-

Joe Rogan 46:52 Where, where did you get that pattern for, like, the handle?

Mareko Maumasi 46:55 It's in- Yeah, so the, the first-

Joe Rogan 46:56 I'm sorry. Answer the first question. I'm sorry.

Mareko Maumasi 46:58 I don't remember the first five questions (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 46:59 I got you. Like, what is the difference in the way they're treated?

Mareko Maumasi 47:01 Okay, yeah, yeah. So they were hardened. So the heat treating, the whole process is essentially heating up the steel, make it hard, and then you put it back to, into heat, but a low, much lower temperature to kind of toughen it up.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 47:15 Um, and so you're pulling some of that hardness back. So they were hardened the same way, but they were tempered at different temperatures because one is a hard use knife while the chef's knife is not a hard use knife.

Joe Rogan 47:27 What is the difference between, uh, temper and what, like... What does that mean?

Mareko Maumasi 47:31 So the tempering, uh... So essentially, so I harden it. So I bring it up to 1500 degrees, which is like a, a dull, glowing orange color. Uh, and then I dip it in a special oil that I have that's designed for quenching materials, not just in knife making, but all kinds of different, uh, industrial applications.

Joe Rogan 47:52 Quenching materials?

Mareko Maumasi 47:53 Quench- or oil. Sorry, quenching oil.

Joe Rogan 47:55 What does that mean?

Mareko Maumasi 47:56 So that's cooling the, this hot steel down in a very short period of time.

Joe Rogan 48:00 And you do it in-

Mareko Maumasi 48:00 It's quenching it.

Joe Rogan 48:01 ... oil?

Mareko Maumasi 48:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:01 So is it a cold oil?

Mareko Maumasi 48:03 No. So actually, the... Depending on how the steel needs to be heat treated, uh, you actually want to heat up the oil so that it's, uh, it's thinner.

Joe Rogan 48:13 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 48:13 And it also... There's this thing that's called a vapor jacket. So if you've ever, like, been next to a woodburning stove and you drop a little water on it and you see that bead of water dance around on there, the same thing happens on the surface of the blade, except for the blade is the source of the heat, right? You put it in that oil, all that oil is dancing around on it. So when the th- the oil is thinner, uh, it, it's not as large of a jacket, because when that jacket is large... So the jacket en- encasing that steel while it's trying to cool down, um, it actually kind of acts as an insulator and ruin or co- could potentially ruin it. So not only do you put it in the oil, but you want to agitate it to kind of break up that jacket, um, so it doesn't get a chance to just sit there and (imitates oil bubbling) all the way around the blade.

Joe Rogan 49:02 And if it was cold, it would-

Mareko Maumasi 49:05 ... b- it would, it would be thicker and so, um, it would make a larger jacket actually. And also the ... It probably wouldn't be as, uh, efficient, I guess, in cooling the steel down 'cause ideally, like for most steels, you wanna cool them down pretty much as quickly as you possibly can. So you have a b-

Joe Rogan 49:23 So this knife-

Mareko Maumasi 49:23 Sorry, go ahead.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Sorry. So keep going.

Mareko Maumasi 49:25 I was just gonna say you, you essentially have, uh ... Depending on what kind of steel you're working with, you have anywhere from half a second to, uh, like five seconds to get it from 1,500 degrees or sometimes higher to below 800 degrees.

Joe Rogan 49:42 And th- so this knife would be more durable, is that what it is, than this knife?

Mareko Maumasi 49:47 Durable, yeah, tougher. So in, in knife making, we commonly refer to it as being tougher, so it can withstand coming into impact with bone. You could chop with that thing-

Joe Rogan 49:57 Hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 49:58 ... uh, a lot more efficiently with a tougher knife. Because this hasn't been tempered at a ... as, uh, as high of a, a temperature, um, it's, it's much harder than this one. Even though it's a few points, those few points make a big difference. And so if you were to take this out into the woods, try to do the same job as this one-

Joe Rogan 50:15 Just snap.

Mareko Maumasi 50:15 ... the cutting, it wouldn't necessarily snap. Um, but parts of the cutting edge would, uh-

Joe Rogan 50:20 Knick up.

Mareko Maumasi 50:21 ... blow out, probably blow out in chips. Um, I actually recently just ... From time to time, it's good practice as a knife maker to make sure you ... that you're still doing your thi- everyth- your heat treating stuff all right. I take a knife and I just beat the shit out of it. First, I chop through some wood, and then I actually took it to an antler and beat the shit out of it too.

Joe Rogan 50:38 Hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 50:39 And, um, it's, it is amazing that if you're doing things right, you know, 10,000ths of an inch is enough to really ... to withstand impact of chopping through wood pretty well. Um, of course, unless you're coming into contact with like-

Joe Rogan 50:55 A nail.

Mareko Maumasi 50:56 ... super, yeah, a nail or super dense knots. But-

Joe Rogan 50:58 That's crazy because it's so thin, you know?

Mareko Maumasi 51:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:01 That's one of the more interesting things about this.

Mareko Maumasi 51:02 And that's actually on the thicker side.

Joe Rogan 51:03 This is on the thicker side?

Mareko Maumasi 51:04 Uh, at least, especially along the cutting edge. That's probably-

Joe Rogan 51:07 Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 51:07 ... twice as thick as it actually needs to be.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 51:10 Which is crazy. But it just, it comes down to the material.

Joe Rogan 51:13 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 51:14 Not e- everybody, or a lot of people mistakenly think, you know, steel is steel is steel is steel and whatever, but they're not. Steel is made for many different applications and they're actually very specifically designed for those applications. So, uh, like a structural steel, this kind of stuff that, you know, buildings are built out of.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 51:33 Very different from this. It doesn't have very much carbon in it at all. That way ... So, uh, and the carbon is what helps make these really hard. So lacking that carbon, it is, allows it to be way tougher, so you can bend it all fucking day long.

Joe Rogan 51:48 And it's not gonna snap.

Mareko Maumasi 51:49 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Right. So that's why you want it for buildings in LA where the earthquakes hit.

Mareko Maumasi 51:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:54 They wiggle a little bit.

Mareko Maumasi 51:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:56 Yeah. Um, this is much thinner than a lot of other, uh, hunting knives would be, which is interesting. You know, with, with your use of this exotic metal and-

Mareko Maumasi 52:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... your s- your methods, you're able to do that.

Mareko Maumasi 52:13 Well, and also part of the reason that you're able to do that is because it's high carbon steel. It has a ... Which means it has a, a high, uh, volume of carbon comparatively, uh, than other kind of s- kinds of tool or cutlery steel. And s-

Joe Rogan 52:26 And what's the benefit of high carbon versus less carbon?

Mareko Maumasi 52:29 It's ... Uh, so high carbon allows you to, to, um, especially for the, the meteorite steel, it's a, it's, uh, a kind of crucible steel called wootz. And so the patterning you see in there is actually strands of carbon, uh, or carbide material. So the, uh, uh, all the extra carbon floating around in the matrix, the iron matrix of this steel jumps onto these bands called carbides. And there are different elements and vanadium is one of the elements in this steel that draws those carbon, that carbon in. So what you're seeing are thousands and thousands of all these ultra hard carbon bands floating around through the iron matrix.

Joe Rogan 53:12 Do you watch Game of Thrones?

Mareko Maumasi 53:13 I do.

Joe Rogan 53:14 When they have like swords that are made out of Valyrian steel, do you get-

Mareko Maumasi 53:17 Sure.

Joe Rogan 53:17 ... pissed off? You go, "Get the fuck out of here with your fake magic steel."

Mareko Maumasi 53:21 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:21 Bitch. (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 53:22 Well, and what's interesting, back in the day, this shit was fucking magical.

Joe Rogan 53:26 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 53:26 Like they didn't understand what was going on.

Joe Rogan 53:29 Now how did they learn? I mean, what is the history? I mean, obviously-

Mareko Maumasi 53:32 Just science.

Joe Rogan 53:32 ... obviously that sword there is from the 1500s, but you know, from back in the Roman gladiator days, and I mean, how did they understand how to do this?

Mareko Maumasi 53:41 So the steel that they were using in Europe was not really that great. It was-

Joe Rogan 53:45 Who had the best shit?

Mareko Maumasi 53:47 Japanese.

Joe Rogan 53:47 Japanese did.

Mareko Maumasi 53:47 The Swedish were pretty fucking good.

Joe Rogan 53:49 Yeah?

Mareko Maumasi 53:49 As well as the Per-

Joe Rogan 53:51 The Vikings.

Mareko Maumasi 53:51 The Persians and the Indonesians. The Ve- Vikings' material wasn't the greatest.

Joe Rogan 53:56 Wasn't? Too barbaric.

Mareko Maumasi 53:58 No, it-

Joe Rogan 53:58 Not enough time to think.

Mareko Maumasi 53:59 It just, it comes down to, uh, what they had available to them.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 54:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:03 So who was, like the pioneer of like really durable, badass sword material? Was it Japanese?

Mareko Maumasi 54:11 So probably, uh, so the Japanese and the Persian/Indonesian-

Joe Rogan 54:17 Persians.

Mareko Maumasi 54:18 ... uh, swords are probably the most legendary.

Joe Rogan 54:21 Real-

Mareko Maumasi 54:21 You know, they're the ones where like y- it could cut through silk floating in the air and shit like that.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Why is that? What did they do different?

Mareko Maumasi 54:29 So i- it's, uh, so the Persian steel is ma- t- steel very, very, very similar to these meteorite. So it's a cruci- it starts ... It's called a crucible steel. And so essentially there's this clay j- jar essentially called a crucible. People melt all kinds of stuff in it, but you can melt, melt steel in it as well. And so they were making these ingots of crucible steel and then forging them out, and they really, really very heavily relied on these carbide bands floating through the material because unfortunately they didn't really have a very, uh, advanced way of quenching that steel so that not only did they have the bands, but they also had hard, uh-... iron matrix as well that those bands were floating in, so they really relied on those, that banding.

Joe Rogan 55:17 So did they just learn from trial and error of thousands of years of experimenting with different materials-

Mareko Maumasi 55:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:23 ... and different locations they got the iron from, and different things that they added to it to make steel?

Mareko Maumasi 55:29 Yep, absolutely. And that's why, like, you know, you ... Even watching Game of Thrones or other kind of medieval ... or movies set in medieval times, you know, there were very specific makers who were the best, who could really make this shit happen. And it's just because they had a tradition passed down to them. And, you know, all that's ... A lot of that stuff is very fictional, but i- in, in the real world, th- that was the same thing, you know. You had very specific lineages of people who had the, you know, the v- essentially the most advanced technology and skills and techniques for creating the most highest performing weaponry, essentially, of the time, which was like the currency of the fucking time.

Joe Rogan 56:11 Somebody went to Japan fairly recently-

Mareko Maumasi 56:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:15 ... and, and filmed them working with a high-level sword maker for a television show. I'm trying to remember who it was. It was someone famous, but it was really badass. They, they went to this sword maker's shop and, you know, I mean, he's doing the whole thing.

Mareko Maumasi 56:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Like hammering it all out and, and building a samurai sword from scratch the way it's always been.

Mareko Maumasi 56:39 Yeah, there are a few of those documentaries, um-

Joe Rogan 56:41 Do you know where it is, Jimmy?

Mareko Maumasi 56:42 I'm looking them up. U- on YouTube. There ... Y- you gotta do some ... Usually you gotta do a little bit of digging to find them. Um, I, I, I actually just watched the t- a few of them, like in the last five years. I do not recall what they're made of.

Joe Rogan 56:55 Do you think you're gonna make a samurai sword one of these days?

Mareko Maumasi 56:57 I might do it, uh, eventually. Just ... I mean, I'm always gonna do chef's knives because that's what I know.

Joe Rogan 57:03 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 57:03 Like that's the tool I know the most, but I-

Joe Rogan 57:04 That's probably the biggest, like market, right?

Mareko Maumasi 57:07 There, there's a gi- ... I mean-

Joe Rogan 57:08 People are super foodies and wanna let you know ...

Mareko Maumasi 57:11 Well, it's not only that, like, but if you think about it, like-

Joe Rogan 57:13 "Momossi made this-"

Mareko Maumasi 57:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:14 "... made out of a meteor."

Mareko Maumasi 57:16 A lo- You know, there's a lot of mystique around Japanese swords or even the American bowie knife-

Joe Rogan 57:22 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 57:23 ... as well as, you know, Viking swords. And, but nowadays, you know, people have that shit made, but, you know, it goes on a wall.

Joe Rogan 57:31 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 57:31 The things that are really getting used are like a hunting knife and a chef's knife.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 57:35 And, you know, cooking knives are, are used, like almost literally in every single household around the world every day.

Joe Rogan 57:42 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 57:43 Year round.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 57:44 And, uh, it ... What's interesting is because of its ubiquity to our everyday life, it lacks that mystique because we see this shit every day.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 57:54 We don't think much of it. Versus a Japanese sword, people walk in here and they're like, "Fuck."

Joe Rogan 57:58 Well, I'll tell you one thing, man. When people come over my house and I'm cooking and they go, "Where the fuck did you get that knife?" That happens all the time. And when-

Mareko Maumasi 58:06 Cool.

Joe Rogan 58:06 ... I sh- it's either this one or the other one. When I show them the bog oak one, same thing, they're like, "Dude."

Mareko Maumasi 58:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:13 I'm like, "Yeah, man. Check it out." Now i- in terms of like this one or the other one that you made me, the other hunting knife that you made me out of Damascus-

Mareko Maumasi 58:20 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:20 ... which one is like tougher and more durable?

Mareko Maumasi 58:24 So they've been heat treated to perform very, very, very similarly.

Joe Rogan 58:29 So they're basically the same.

Mareko Maumasi 58:29 You'd, you'd essentially have to destroy them to really determine which one outperformed the other.

Joe Rogan 58:35 So you have to stick it in a bone, try to break it.

Mareko Maumasi 58:37 Yeah. Essentially use it how it's not supposed to be fucking used. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:41 Right. But it, it k- it keeps an edge so well, man, it's crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 58:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:45 I mean, I, I get nervous every time I touch the blade. I mean this thing slices through things.

Mareko Maumasi 58:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:50 Now, um, there's gotta be an art to, uh, actually sharpening things too, right?

Mareko Maumasi 58:56 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 58:58 And how do you know like the right angle to, uh, approach sharpening?

Mareko Maumasi 59:02 It's ... I mean, there are a lot ... There are actually a lot of great information online. Uh, there ... Especially i- in big cities like Seattle, LA, New York, uh, Austin, they're ... Portland as well, there are super reputable people not only who will offer service but usually offer lessons as well.

Joe Rogan 59:21 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 59:22 I suggest like if you can afford it, you know, you can dig around, you can find the stuff online, but it's not the same as having, essentially having a coach next to you saying, "Uh-uh." Or, "Yeah, that's great. That's perfect. That's where you wanna be doing that shit."

Joe Rogan 59:37 Do you, do you sharpen both sides?

Mareko Maumasi 59:40 I do.

Joe Rogan 59:40 So you sharpen the top and the bottom?

Mareko Maumasi 59:44 I'm sorry. You mean how?

Joe Rogan 59:45 Both sides of the steel. Like would you sharpen it like this and then flip it over-

Mareko Maumasi 59:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 59:48 ... and sharpen it like that?

Mareko Maumasi 59:49 Sorry, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:50 Now what are those things? They have those metal things where people go shing, shing, shing, shing.

Mareko Maumasi 59:55 Yeah, so those-

Joe Rogan 59:56 You know, those, those ones seem like ... I'm like, "That looks brutal. I wouldn't do that to a good knife."

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:02 (laughs) It ... So-

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 Am I right thinking that way?

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:04 Y- Well, it depends on the, the type of steel that your knife's made from-

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:07 ... and then what the material is that those rods are made from. So those are commonly referred to as sharpening rods or sharpening sticks, but the reality is they're not actually sharpening.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 What are they doing?

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:18 So they're, uh, more accurately referred to as honing rods. So what's happening at your ... Oops, sorry. At the cutting edge of your knife is you have all these micro-serrations. Essentially, if you go, uh, take, take it under a microscope and look at the cutting edge, it looks like a saw blade.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:35 But they're, like they're fucking microns. A micron is a millionth of a meter, like they're teeny tiny. So, but what happens over normal use, uh, those teeth, they, they bend over, they flex over, or sometimes they eventually wear out and fall off. And so what the honing rod does, especially if they've bent over-

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 There it is. He's showing it right there. Ooh.

Mareko Maumasi 1:00:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Exciting, look at that blade edge. Oh.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:02 Yeah, so you-

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 That's crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:02 ... want to ignore like those long streaks and you're just like the tiny little thin bl- Yeah, that's the shit right there. That's it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 Damn.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:09 The top of that thin black line.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 Damn.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:12 Focus. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 That's crazy.... observation in-

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:16 Are you looking at this?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 1:01:17 A video. It's, like, someone's doing it to your instruction, but yeah, it's a YouTube video.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:20 Crazy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Yeah. That is crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:22 I was like, "Are you doing that shit right now?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 300x magnification-

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 ... view from the top. Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:28 Yeah. So that's what's happening along your cutting edge. And what happens is those tiny serrations wear, bend over, like I was saying, or break off. And so... But as they bend over, and it's just normal shit, that honing rod, by swiping across that honing rod... And you don't just do it willy-nilly. Like, you gotta do it at the right angle and all that stuff. But what it does is it realigns and hones those teeth back into alignment.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:01:51 So people mistakenly call them sharpening sticks because all of a sudden their knife is sh- sharp as fuck afterwards. But the reality is that it's honed those teeth back into alignment so it can do its job again.

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Now, what's the purpose of the leather strop?

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:04 So that's just a gentler way, uh, especially for things that are super, super, uh, razor sharp, which essentially have been sharpened to a really high finish, uh, like 10,000 grit or higher.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:18 So those micro-serrations are even smaller, which means they're even more delicate, which means they don't need as much force to realign them. So a honing rod or a ho- or sorry, a, a strop is-

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 So that's a human hair?

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 1:02:30 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Jesus Christ.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:32 That looks disgusting. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Imagine choking on that hair.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:35 So just to give you some reference, a, a typical and average human hair is about three thousandths of an inch.

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 Whoa.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:44 Uh, yeah. And to help put that in a little bit more better perspective, a sixteenth of an inch, like a normal measurement, one sixteenth of an inch is 62.5 thousandths of an inch.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 1:02:58 So that's like one... I can't even do the math right. One twentieth of a sixteenth of an inch, which is fucking teeny-tiny.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Dumb.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 1:03:07 That video's crazy. It's, like, split the hair.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Yeah.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 1:03:10 Just, like, shaved it. Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:11 Yeah.

Guest (secondary clip/reading) 1:03:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Literally. Yeah. Um, there's a, a big debate in th- uh, the world of bow hunting-

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 ... with broad heads, with, uh, what kind of steel to use.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:22 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 And, uh, there's, there's harder steel that, uh, some people use, but it breaks.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:29 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 And there's, there's an issue with that. And there's, there's, like, this big debate, harder versus steel that is-

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 ... less hard, but will bend more and give slightly more. You know, and then there's, um, there's, uh, the broad head that I use, which is, uh, a carbon steel broad head from a company called G5.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 They make this, uh, broad head called a Montec. Let's pull up, um, G5 carbon steel Montec. Mont-

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:55 So you're talking-

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Montec CS, they call them.

Mareko Maumasi 1:03:57 So you're talking, it's just the head, like, the-

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 Mm-hmm. Just what-

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:00 ... the triangular-

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 ... what you would use for hunting.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:02 ... or is it even a triangle? Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Um, the one that I use, yeah, it is. It's, uh, it, it has, uh... Was that three points or four points? Here, he'll pull it up. You see it.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 That's it.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:12 Oh, yeah. Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 So it's three points. But that's, that's a carbon steel broad head.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 That's what I shot my elk with last year with, and that thing's virtually indestructible.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:22 Yeah. There's, uh, I would say-

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 I have a crazy photograph. I'll show you this crazy video. Oh, I put it up on my Instagram. Find it on my Instagram, where, um, uh, my... I was fucking around with something on my bow at, at full draw. I was trying to set something, and the b- (laughs) the bow went off, and it hit a cement wall, and it stuck into the wall, like...

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:43 Like cinder block or solid cement?

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Solid cement wall.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:46 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 And didn't kill the broad head. I still have the broad head back there.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:50 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 It's stuck into the broad head. Look at it did... It's stuck into the broad head.

Mareko Maumasi 1:04:55 The shaft is stuck. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 Yeah. Look what it did to the, to the, uh, arrow. Now look at that.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 Look at that broad head. That fucking thing's got my bet for life.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:04 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 That thing's got my confidence forever, because if that does that to concrete, w- what will that do to bone?

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 You know, that will go through anything.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:11 That's gonna kick some ass. So the, one of the things I would say, after seeing that-

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 It's crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:14 ... especially that first image, is the geometry of the blades, the, the actual points.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:21 Um, they lend themselves similarly to how your hunting knife is sharpened differently from your chef's knife.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:27 Like, the chef's knife material's thinner, but they're also sharpened at different angles because they have different jobs they're supposed to do. And so the broader, essentially... Or sorry, the more acute that is, the more easily that will break, as well as the thinner, the thinner the material that that, that geometry is living on, is more, uh, susceptible to breaking. That first image that Jamie pulled up, the geometry looked like it was pretty robust.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Pull that up again. Yeah. Wow.

Mareko Maumasi 1:05:54 And as well as, like, it looks like it's probably at least 30 thousandths of an inch thick, which is, you know, that's about f- if not more, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 No, the, the original image, Jamie, we see the actual broad head and the, um, without the, um.... Um, yeah, my friend Brian Stevens turned me on to these. He, (laughs) he-

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 ... shot a bear through the head with one of those.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:17 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 It was from 10 feet away. It was coming at him.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 And-

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:21 Oh, yeah. Wow. I mean...

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 He's got an image of the skull that he sent me, where you could see the outline of that-

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:28 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 ... broad head through the bear's skull.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:30 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:06:30 Yeah. And it, and it killed the bear and didn't even fuck up the arrow. I'm like, "That is crazy."

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:36 I believe it. Yeah. And so a lot of... Like, you see people doing these incredible feats, like hammering through nails and shit like that with their knives.

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:42 And you're like, "What the fuck?" Uh, the thing that most people are used to are a chef's knife, and they think if they did that with their chef's knife, it'd fuck it up.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Snap. Break.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:50 And 100% it pretty much would.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 1:06:52 But with the right thickness coming up to the cutting edge, as well as the actual lead cutting edge geometry, like the actual angle that it's sharpened at-

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:01 ... you could do that shit all day long.

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 Now, when you sharpen a blade, do you use something to hold it next to the stone so that it reaches the perfect angle, or do you do it by eye?

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:13 I do it by eye. Uh, actually, if you'll hand it over to me, one of the things, especially when I first started learning, I would use my finger as a guide.

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:21 So that would inform me, uh, as to the angle. So when the edge of my finger would touch the top of the stone-

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:27 ... that told me that was about the right angle. And then when I flipped it over to do the other side, I'd do the same thing with my thumb.... and essentially use the edge of my thumb.

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 And you just know this from experience?

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:35 I just know it from experience.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:37 They do make, uh, sharpening guides that you can clip onto the back of the knives.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 Mm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:41 As well as little ramps. Those are all great, especially if you're starting.

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:45 The hardest part about all of this is the muscle memory portion. It's figuring out how to lock in and maintain that angle without wavering and-

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 1:07:55 ... twisting your wrists and all that kind of shit. And that just, it's, it's like riding a bike or any other, anything you've ever had to learn in your life. With practice-

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:03 ... and repetition, you'll get better.

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 What do you think about that mo-, those machines, those like little, they're like little grinder-

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:10 I think they're the worst fucking thing ever. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Really?

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:12 I, I have a, a f-, like a, almost kind of a, a conspiracy theory that, like, the reality is, like, they're designed to destroy your knives so you have to turn around and reinvest again.

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 Really?

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:23 Because most people ... But one, because the knives aren't usually sold for very much money that are being used with those things.

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:30 And when you're not selling them for very mu-, very much, you're relying on volume.

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 Oh.

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:35 And what better way than to create a thing that does the job for a little bit, but ultimately destroys it, and you have to reinvest.

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 What about those ones where you stick it in the slot and go shink, shink, shink?

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:45 It's the same kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Same thing, just fuck your knives up?

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:47 It's just it's a little slower process. But you, you'll notice, the problem with those, the real problem with those, is that you can't sharpen the whole edge. You usually start at the heel or just-

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:08:58 ... a little bit in front of the heel, and then you do the major work. I, uh, tripped myself out. I was like, "Oh, fuck, I'm gonna cut myself."

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 Stop. (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:04 This is actually still pretty sharp.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 Oh, it's sharp as fuck.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:07 Um, and so the problem is because you're not getting the full length, you'll continue to dish this material out just in front of the heel, and then when you go to cut, there's this just little bit of shit there-

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:20 ... that's not doing any work.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Right.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:21 It's not doing anything, especially when you're relying on that cutting board. When the knife comes down to the cutting board to do some work, it's not happening.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 I cut my lunch with that today.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:29 Nice. Oh, fuck. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 Cut up with that.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:31 That axis, that axis elk.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 Axis deer and elk.

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:35 Oh, my God. That was killing me. (laughs) That comment, I, you probably didn't see it, but I was just like, "Holy shit." (laughs) "That looks so fucking good."

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Yeah, man. Uh, you know, while I learned how to cook, I mean, I, I, I feel like there's some real art to that as well, from, uh, my friend Chad Ward, Whiskey Bend BBQ on, um, uh, Instagram. He's a, like a, a pit master, like a legit-

Mareko Maumasi 1:09:57 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 ... world champion barbecue master, and he's the one that taught me how to cook slowly at low temperatures.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 And then sear it after you're done. I, uh, I always thought you're supposed to just put it on high heat, cook the shit out of it, and then eat it, you know?

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:13 Yeah. I mean- (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 It tastes fine that way too, but, you know, when you're dealing ... What I really had to learn-

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 ... uh, especially in particular, cooking with, um, wild game is very unforgiving.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:25 Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 Because it's-

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:26 It's low in fat.

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 Yeah, it's got none.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 It's, you're basically eating a sprinter. (laughs)

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 Like, here it is right there.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:34 The, the ... Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:34 So that's the end I, uh, reverse sear it in a pan with grass-fed, buddy. You hear that, baby?

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:38 That's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:10:39 Listen to that sound. Oh.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 Oh. That's the last of my backstrap. I gotta, I gotta get some more meat.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 I eat the f-, I eat so much meat, it's crazy.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 Su-, super healthy though, bitch.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 Fuck what you heard.

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 Um ...

Mareko Maumasi 1:10:59 It looks like it works.

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 No, it d- well, you know what too? There's, there's something really magical about wild game, and, um, I don't know what the fuck it is. I really don't. And I don't think anybody does 'cause I don't think there's enough people out there that are eating it.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:12 But it has, it has a different effect on your body. It feels different when I eat it.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:16 Even just beef, like y- if you have a-

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 Like grass-fed beef?

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:19 Oh, fuck. F-, like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:20 ... total like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:21 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:21 ... pasture-raised, like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:23 Oh, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:23 ... oh my God, the difference, it-

Joe Rogan 1:11:26 You know about ButcherBox?

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:27 ... it's, it's incredible. I'm aware of it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:28 Yeah, dude, that company's the shit. They'll, they'll send it to your house, frozen, grass-fed, pasture-raised, like, p- pasture-finished. And, uh, it's pretty cheap too. It's, uh, it's a good deal.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:40 The few times-

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 One of the sponsors of this podcast, and I, I use them all the time.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:44 I think it's amazing.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:45 It's brilliant. You know, I, and the few times that I, and it's, (sighs) actually, I feel embarrassed saying that. I've only eaten really good beef, happy beef, essentially, only a few times.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 Grass-fed beef, yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:55 Yeah. (laughs) It's hard to get.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Yeah. Well, especially in some places.

Mareko Maumasi 1:11:57 Oh my God, when you take a bite, like the, even just that first bite-

Joe Rogan 1:12:01 Mm-hmm.

Mareko Maumasi 1:12:01 ... it's just like, "Whoa." It's-

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 It tastes different.

Mareko Maumasi 1:12:03 You've entered a whole different world, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:12:04 Yeah.

Mareko Maumasi 1:12:04 ... "What the fuck?" Just the flavors, everything.

Joe Rogan 1:12:07 I have, uh-

Mareko Maumasi 1:12:07 So different.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 ... my friend, uh, my friend Mike Hawkridge, uh, he lives up in, uh, British Columbia, like the real B- British Columbia, like way the fuck up there, and, uh, you know, he's a hunting guide, and, um, uh, uh, got him some tickets for the fights in Vegas, and he and his wife came down, and then afterwards, we went out to eat. And, uh, they were eating steak. We ate at a restaurant, and they're laughing like f- (scoffs) like they're used to eating moose, you know?

Mareko Maumasi 1:12:32 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 Like, this meat is like, it's like