Joe Rogan Experience #1168 - Mareko Maumasi

1. 0:00 – 2:06

   Meteorite steel knife: what’s in it and where it comes from

   1. MMMareko Maumasi0:00

      ... (humming)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Four, three, two, one. Boom! The lost art of- of knife making-

   3. MMMareko Maumasi0:10

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      ... it's still alive. How are you, man?

   5. MMMareko Maumasi0:12

      I'm doing good, man. I really-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Thanks for coming down here. I appreciate it.

   7. MMMareko Maumasi0:14

      ... I, I'm fucking huge. I really appreciate you having me down.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Hey, listen, man. You've made two awesome, well, four awesome knives for me, but this one, um, is one I use all the time that, uh, I've posted on Instagram that people freak out, as we were talking about before the podcast. It actually has meteor in it.

   9. MMMareko Maumasi0:30

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Meteorite. What's ... Meteor's a big one? Meteorite's a little one? Is that the idea? Do you know?

   11. MMMareko Maumasi0:35

       I guess. (laughs) Yeah. I don't-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       You should know.

   13. MMMareko Maumasi0:38

       (laughs) I- j-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       You're the knife maker.

   15. MMMareko Maumasi0:39

       So, I didn't actually make ... So I made the knife, I forged the knife, but the steel is, is a very special kind of steel that very few people can actually manufacture on a small scale in the world. And that was made by my shop mate, Peter Swarsberg. And so he, um ... The meteorite is kind of a, a small element in the whole matrix because most meteorite is, uh, all nickel or all iron or something like that and this one particularly is a lot of nickel and some cobalt and if you're gonna make a- an actual usable steel out of it, you can't really use a whole lot of it in the overall mixture.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Mm. So is there any meteorites that are made out of all iron?

   17. MMMareko Maumasi1:24

       Yeah, definitely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       You just have to find 'em?

   19. MMMareko Maumasi1:26

       You just gotta find the ones. Yeah, and there, there are impact sites all over the world. Like they're hitting the world all the time. Uh-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       How ... So wh- ... Is it w- ... Can you just take 'em? Like when they land, is it yours if you find it?

   21. MMMareko Maumasi1:37

       Yep. They-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Like you don't have to report it to NASA or anything, right?

   23. MMMareko Maumasi1:39

       No. No. Um-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       "Hey, bro."

   25. MMMareko Maumasi1:41

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       "Found some space junk."

   27. MMMareko Maumasi1:43

       Most of them are, are, are so small that they ... By the time they-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       Get here.

   29. MMMareko Maumasi1:47

       ... wh- hit the actual Earth's surface-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Mm-hmm.
2. 2:06 – 6:00

   Why handmade craftsmanship matters in a digital world

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      There's a dope pattern. Um, I'm really into craftsmanship, man. I've, I always have been. I love handmade pool cues and this desk, which is a handmade desk.

   2. MMMareko Maumasi2:17

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:17

      And I feel like it's one of the things that I really appreciate in this modern digital world, and I also feel like, unfortunately, it may be one of the things that's slipping away.

   4. MMMareko Maumasi2:28

      It, it definitely is slipping away. I think with, um, you know, with technolo- ... Technology has been great for us in a lot of different ways. Like we couldn't be fucking talking into a piece of metal.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      Right.

   6. MMMareko Maumasi2:39

      And it's recorded on a computer. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:40

      It's going through a wire-

   8. MMMareko Maumasi2:42

      Yeah. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:42

      ... flying through the air.

   10. MMMareko Maumasi2:42

       Like it does a lot of great things, but in doing all those great things, it actually has taken us away from really creating and working with our hands and so, like, you know, e- even this whole like, uh, farm to table movement where people-

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:58

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MMMareko Maumasi2:58

       ... even growing their own vegetables.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       Yeah.

   14. MMMareko Maumasi3:00

       You got your own chickens. You ... They're, they're laying eggs for you. Like knowing where this stuff is coming from, having like first-hand contact with that, um, just having that relationship in general with it brings so much more value to the overall experience of eating those eggs or using that knife or-

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       Yeah.

   16. MMMareko Maumasi3:17

       ... sitting at this fucking table right here.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:19

       And it seems like a f- a fairly recent movement in that direction, right? Like it feels like things got so digital that people are like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa," with the Facebook and the fucking Instagram. "I want a-"

   18. MMMareko Maumasi3:31

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:31

       "... You know, I want a wood table."

   20. MMMareko Maumasi3:33

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       "I wanna saw this bitch-"

   22. MMMareko Maumasi3:34

       Something tangible.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       "... myself." Yeah.

   24. MMMareko Maumasi3:35

       Put your hands on it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       Yeah, I don't want it to be-

   26. MMMareko Maumasi3:37

       And get your hands all dirty.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:37

       ... plastic. Yeah. I want real stuff and th- there's something about handmade things, whether it's a handmade pair of boots or a handmade bag, like th- it's like there's something about things that are made by hand that people get a, like a deep appreciation of- from.

   28. MMMareko Maumasi3:53

       For-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       Yeah.

   30. MMMareko Maumasi3:53

       ... sure. Well, and I think it ... I think it also kind of goes back ... Like I was saying, like as technology has advanced, we've kind of grown away from these kind of what's considered like blue-collar work.
3. 6:00 – 8:33

   Ancient materials in modern tools: bog oak and reclaimed woods

   1. MMMareko Maumasi6:00

      And I saw your conversation or I listened to your conversation with Guy Ritchie and you brought up that there was ... I think actually Jamie pulled it up and it was like, "Bog oak," and Guy Ritchie-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      Yeah.

   3. MMMareko Maumasi6:08

      ... was like, "Bog oak? What bog?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:10

      Yeah.

   5. MMMareko Maumasi6:10

      "Are there American bogs?" (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:11

      (laughs) ... there are-

   7. MMMareko Maumasi6:12

      No, I don't know if there are any American bogs. It was from a, a bog in Russia, and it was carbon dated to 5,400 years old.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:19

      Jeez.

   9. MMMareko Maumasi6:19

      So essentially, it's been sunken in a bog, just sitting there-

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       That's the other knife that you made for me-

   11. MMMareko Maumasi6:23

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:24

       ... that has a handle made, bog oak.

   13. MMMareko Maumasi6:25

       So-

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:25

       That's, how did, how does one get ahold of bog oak?

   15. MMMareko Maumasi6:28

       So, people are raising logs. Like, there actually was a show, I think it was on Discovery Channel or History, where people were, their job was raising logs out of, out of the swamps-

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:38

       Out of the bogs?

   17. MMMareko Maumasi6:38

       ... down in Louisiana and the South, and using, making use of that wood for table projects and craft projects-

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MMMareko Maumasi6:44

       ... like this. So that, but that's happening all over the world.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       Mm.

   21. MMMareko Maumasi6:47

       And some of that stuff are these ancient logs that have, you know, it's, uh, the right conditions where the log, the tree falls over, it just sits there and steeps, and hangs up.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:58

       You know, that's a big thing for pool cue shafts, lakewood shafts. They, they like to take these logs out of the bottom of like, Lake Michigan or something.

   23. MMMareko Maumasi7:06

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:07

       And then they, uh, dry it all out, and then they make shafts out of it. And there's something about it being in the bottom of the water for so long, it does something to the, to the way they feel.

   25. MMMareko Maumasi7:17

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:17

       What do you got there, Jamie?

   27. MMMareko Maumasi7:19

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       That's ancient bog wood artisan dice.

   29. MMMareko Maumasi7:21

       Dice. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       Oh.
4. 8:33 – 10:21

   Knife-making culture and the forging vs. stock-removal debate

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:33

      Interesting. So, there must be a community of you people, these, these knife-making people.

   2. MMMareko Maumasi8:38

      Yeah, there, there are quite a few people who have started getting into the knife making, um, the knife making. Um, espe-

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:46

      The world of knife making.

   4. MMMareko Maumasi8:48

      ... the world (laughs) of knife making. Uh, really, there, the, the resurgence of kind of handcrafted, hand-forged knives kind of started back in the '70s. Um, and it was, it, it stemmed off from, um, I think it was the Custom Knife Making Association, or, uh, yeah, Cuf- Custom Knife Makers Association. And then it stemmed off to the ABS, which is the American Bladesmith Society, and that was all about the forged blade, and kind of the mission to retain that knowledge and that history, and, and the skills that go into actually taking a piece of metal and forging a blade out of it. Like, your blades, they were forged to shape. They, where, uh, one per- approach is to just take a, a bar of steel-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:29

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MMMareko Maumasi9:30

      ... trace out a line, cut that out.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      Right.

   8. MMMareko Maumasi9:32

      With a stock, I mean, it's totally valid way of doing it. Um, forging, the forging aspect, uh, especially if somebody doesn't actually know what they're doing, they're just like, heating up a piece of steel, they don't know how fucking hot it is getting, they don't know how, when to stop hitting it, they may be hitting it too cold. They may be overheating it and hitting it while it's way too hot. Uh, they could really, actually do detrimental damage to the, to the material and turn out a piece of shit.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:58

      Right.

   10. MMMareko Maumasi9:58

       Um, so the forged aspect really just brings kind of an, an aesthetic and kind of a depth of story to help bring kind of more to that product. Um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:10

       Well, it's another level, right, of handcraftmanship.

   12. MMMareko Maumasi10:11

       Yeah, it's just another layer of it, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:13

       Right, it's not just handcrafting something from a, you know, just a piece of metal that you bought, and you put all the pieces together and polished it down and sanded it.

   14. MMMareko Maumasi10:21

       Right.

5. 10:21 – 18:01

   How Mareko got started: meeting Bob Kramer and apprenticing

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:21

      When did you get into this?

   2. MMMareko Maumasi10:23

      So, I (sighs) , uh, it's a kind of a funny story. So, I got into this back in 2008, is when I f- uh, met Bob Kramer. At the time, I was working in a restaurant, uh, actually in my hometown of Olympia. Um, and I was working at a restaurant, I was moonlighting as an assistant salsa dancing instructor and doing like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:43

      (laughs)

   4. MMMareko Maumasi10:44

      ... uh, uh, like community performances and shit like that. And, uh, I was 24, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing with myself, and I didn't really have much of a direction in my life. I was terrible at school. Um, you know, I had maybe 40 credits towards, towards an AA, but I don't even have a, like an actual certification or degree or any kind. So anyways, I was, I was sharing this with my dance partner, and she had just started working for this guy who was a knife maker, and she's like, "Oh, you should meet him. He's really interesting. Uh, you know, you kind of feel like you're lost. He's been all over the world." He's even like, he was even a clown at one point, and-

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:21

      This is Bob Kramer?

   6. MMMareko Maumasi11:21

      This is for Ring- Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:22

      He used to be a clown?

   8. MMMareko Maumasi11:23

      He was a clown f- I think for a year for Ringling Barnum & Blay- Bailey.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      (laughs)

   10. MMMareko Maumasi11:29

       Um, and from what I understand, it was a great experience, and he loved it, and, uh, but anyways, she's like, "You know, I think you guys would hit it off. I think he, he, you know, maybe he could help bestow some wisdom as to where you're at and where he was at, and maybe what kind of choices or options you have ahead of you." And so, I met up with him, uh, at the brew pub that I was actually working at, and got some beers, got some fish and chips, sitting and bullshitting, and it ended up turning into a, uh, job opportunity. Neither of us really went into it knowing that that's the direction it was gonna go. But, uh, he was anticipating, he had a, an article coming out in The New Yorker, like, in a month, um, that was gonna really, like, blow his shit up. And he had had a couple big articles, like in Saveur Magazine, and he was featured in, uh, Cook's D- Illustrated at one point. And each time, like, there's a huge influx, and so I think in, in part of anticipation for that-... he was like, "Look, you seem like a nice guy. You don't really seem to (laughs) have a direction. Maybe we could work something out. I can't make any promises to you that I have full-time work for you." Um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:33

       So, he just took you on as an apprentice.

   12. MMMareko Maumasi12:35

       Essentially.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       I saw a video with him-

   14. MMMareko Maumasi12:37

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       ... with, uh, Anthony Bourdain.

   16. MMMareko Maumasi12:38

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       That's how I found out about him. He was making a knife, uh, with meteors.

   18. MMMareko Maumasi12:42

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       Me-... With a piece of meteorite in it, as well.

   20. MMMareko Maumasi12:45

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       Same kinda thing. And, uh, I remember thinking, like, "Wow, how crazy is this? This guy's hammering this thing together and putting it there." That was, like, one of the ways that I got interested in custom knife making.

   22. MMMareko Maumasi12:56

       Sure.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:56

       And mind, I'd always had knives. You know, like pocketknives. You know, the-

   24. MMMareko Maumasi13:00

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       ... ƒ. And I always, like, cu-... kind of thought they were cool and enjoyed them.

   26. MMMareko Maumasi13:04

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       But until I watched that video, I, I didn't realize that there was a lot of people out there. There it is.

   28. MMMareko Maumasi13:09

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:10

       Him and, uh, Anthony. I didn't realize there was a lot of people that are out there doing this from scratch. And then, you know, then I was like, "Oh, I gotta get a knife." And then, (laughs) then I saw your page on Instagram, and I remember thinking, "Wow, this guy does some wild shit." And I don't remember how you and I got to chatting. I don't remember. I just remember seeing your stuff on Instagram.

   30. MMMareko Maumasi13:32

       Y- you reached out to me, uh, on email, and I was like, "Joe Rogan." I was like, "That can't be."
6. 18:01 – 28:27

   Art, “energy,” and the idea that objects can carry memory

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:01

      Well, there's little something that people leave in things that they make. I mean, there really is. I mean, I, I think it exists in everything that people make, whether it's clothing or jewelry, or furniture, or anything. I mean, I think there's a little something that people leave when they... in, in a thing that they make.

   2. MMMareko Maumasi18:17

      What i-... There's something you talk about sometimes about how animals inherit, like... uh, pass down through genes, like-... watch out for this plant or watch out for these-

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:26

      Mm-hmm.

   4. MMMareko Maumasi18:26

      ... predators and shit like that, like passing something on like that kind of in a way. Like, where I'm toiling over something like that for, you know, 40 dedicated solid fucking hours-

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:36

      Right.

   6. MMMareko Maumasi18:37

      ... making sure it's as perfect as I possibly can make that thing at this point in my life-

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:42

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MMMareko Maumasi18:43

      ... with the skills I got, and ...

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:44

      I, I think there's something to that. I mean, I, even if it's just a thought, even if you just know when you touch it, like if I touch this knife, I know that you made this, you know? When I'm, when I'm cutting something with this and I'm cooking, I know that you made this. So maybe it's just even if it's only in my head, it's still ... It just feels different, you know? And I, I, I, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's Rupert Sheldrake who's a ... I don't know what exactly kind of scientist he is, but he has this bizarre theory, and he's a really interesting guy to talk to, so, uh, uh, I would never discount it. He thinks that everything has memory.

   10. MMMareko Maumasi19:22

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:22

       He thinks you just, you just can't access that memory, but he thinks there's things that have memories. And he thinks that our idea that memory is something that only animals and humans possess is, is just, it's probably not true, and that, that's probably one of the reasons why people don't want to buy a house where someone was murdered.

   12. MMMareko Maumasi19:40

       Right. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:40

       You know what I mean? Like, the idea is that a haunted house-

   14. MMMareko Maumasi19:43

       Jesus.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:43

       ... even if it's not really a ghost, like maybe that home has memories.

   16. MMMareko Maumasi19:48

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       You know, maybe a ... Like, my dad went to Gettysburg, and, uh, he's not woo-woo at all.

   18. MMMareko Maumasi19:53

       Sure.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       He's like as fucking straight-laced, across-the-board, no-bullshit as it gets, and he said, "Man, you could feel sadness there." He goes, "You just think of how many thousands of people died at Gettysburg," and he said, "When you're there, it just, it feels sad, like you feel death."

   20. MMMareko Maumasi20:12

       Crazy.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       Yeah.

   22. MMMareko Maumasi20:13

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:14

       Yeah. I don't know if that's real or if it's maybe the knowledge that you have that there was a war there. I mean, I don't know.

   24. MMMareko Maumasi20:20

       I, I used to do this thing where I would walk through cemeteries.

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:23

       Hmm.

   26. MMMareko Maumasi20:24

       Um, just interested, like looking at people's names and-

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:27

       Right.

   28. MMMareko Maumasi20:27

       ... and like when, when did they live and what do people have to say about them or what, you know, what's left behind. And just walking through cemeteries, like sometimes I would even do it on Halloween to try to creep my ass out.

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       (laughs) Oh, god.

   30. MMMareko Maumasi20:39

       And it's, it's definitely (laughs) feels weird in there-
7. 28:27 – 40:31

   Shop reality: hearing protection, respirators, and scary tools

   1. MMMareko Maumasi28:27

      Yeah. I got all the time to sit and listen.

   2. JRJoe Rogan28:30

      Do you have headphones or like, 'cause-

   3. MMMareko Maumasi28:31

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan28:31

      ... it seems like it'd be loud as fuck.

   5. MMMareko Maumasi28:33

      Yeah. So I just got ahold of these, uh, like Bluetooth head, head, like earbuds.

   6. JRJoe Rogan28:37

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MMMareko Maumasi28:37

      And they have like this memory foam. So they, uh, memory foam earbud like tips so that it helps reduce the amount of noise that's actually coming in, so it helps protect it in that way just kind of in general, like a normal like, uh, in- inner ear plug would work. But also because it's reducing the amount of noise that's getting in, you can also listen at a lower volume so you're not like blowing out your ears to be able to hear-

   8. JRJoe Rogan29:01

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMareko Maumasi29:01

      ... whatever you're listening to.

   10. JRJoe Rogan29:02

       Right.

   11. MMMareko Maumasi29:02

       Like you wouldn't through normal earbuds.

   12. JRJoe Rogan29:04

       Right, 'cause it's so loud in your shop.

   13. MMMareko Maumasi29:06

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan29:07

       Yeah.

   15. MMMareko Maumasi29:07

       So much noise. It's, whenever I'm working, like especially if somebody happens to pop by the shop and they want to see and like they're just curious, and so we have stuff going on or we can heat some steel up real quick and do a quick demonstration, usually I don't take the time to throw all that stuff in. And fuck, it is so loud. I actually feel like my hearing has become more sensitive since I started making knives than it was before. Um-

   16. JRJoe Rogan29:31

       It's probably your ears getting beat up.

   17. MMMareko Maumasi29:32

       Well, n- uh-

   18. JRJoe Rogan29:33

       Do you always have earplugs in?

   19. MMMareko Maumasi29:34

       I always have hea- hearing protection in so, so my hearing is always protected, so I feel like it's become more sensitive.

   20. JRJoe Rogan29:40

       Oh.

   21. MMMareko Maumasi29:40

       I have a better sense of hearing. I don't know if that's possible to get your hearing back or whatever, but, uh-

   22. JRJoe Rogan29:46

       Maybe you're protecting it-

   23. MMMareko Maumasi29:47

       ... it's strange.

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:48

       ... and it's doing better because of that.

   25. MMMareko Maumasi29:49

       Yeah. I just, I hear a lot of thing, like all the things it feels like whenever I take my hearing, or the, your hearing protection out. I'll be at home or something and I'll be like, "What the fuck's that noise?" And my wife looks at me like I'm fucking crazy. I'm just like, "What the fuck?"

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if like maybe if like, you know, people don't use their hands and then the hands get soft.

   27. MMMareko Maumasi30:10

       I don't know. I have pretty soft-

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:11

       And then you don't use them.

   29. GCGuest (secondary clip/reading)30:11

       I know (clears throat) you can't gain it back-

   30. MMMareko Maumasi30:15

       Okay.
8. 40:31 – 45:13

   Damascus demystified: pattern-welding, steel choices, and creating mosaics

   1. JRJoe Rogan40:31

      ... um, how the fuck do you create those patterns, like Damascus steel?

   2. MMMareko Maumasi40:35

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan40:35

      What- what is that? Oh, this doesn't have too much of a pattern.

   4. MMMareko Maumasi40:37

      That one's not the, uh, Damascus steel unfortunately.

   5. JRJoe Rogan40:40

      Yeah.

   6. MMMareko Maumasi40:40

      It's beautiful though.

   7. JRJoe Rogan40:41

      Yeah. Now, what- what does create those ... Like that.

   8. MMMareko Maumasi40:44

      There you go.

   9. JRJoe Rogan40:44

      How do you do that? We're looking at a crazy image that looks like ... It almost looks like someone drew on it.

   10. MMMareko Maumasi40:50

       Yeah. (laughs) This is, uh, this is a pattern I just came up with recently. It's called ... I call it the braid mosaic, for lack of better term. Um, but it just looks like a braid and it's something I've been wanting to create and-

   11. JRJoe Rogan41:02

       How do you create it?

   12. MMMareko Maumasi41:03

       ... I finally figured it out. So essentially wha- ... To create pattern-welded Damascus, uh, first off, Damascus is kind of a blanket ... Has become a blanket term. Traditionally and originally it actually referred to the steel that ... Like, the type of steel that your knife, this knife, the Meteorite knife, is made from. And it eventually became a blanket term for all kinds of, kind of, patterned steel in general, whether it's ... It- it curves naturally or if it's kind of forced and created the way that braid pattern was made. Um, so that's pattern-welded steel and so you have to start with at least two, uh, different types of high-carbon steel. Ideally, s- steels that heat treat in a similar range. When you heat them up and squish on them, they've ... They move at a similar rate and so, uh, most commonly, people are working with 1080 and 15 and 20. Those are just codes for two different types of high-carbon steel but essentially you bring them up to a high temperature, you, uh, you squish them, uh, either under a big hammer or under a press. You can even actually do it by hand but you have to do kind of a smaller billet, uh, to create the patterns and get it to stick 'cause the trick is really getting, um, getting them close eive- evenly squishing it out. And it's like, um, if you've ever like rolled out dough or anybody who's ever made like pastry dough, like you would use in a croissant.

   13. JRJoe Rogan42:26

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MMMareko Maumasi42:26

       You tear open a croissant you see all those layers in there and that's from a piece of dough being rolled out, folded over, rolled out t- ... And so it's kind of the same fucking thing-

   15. JRJoe Rogan42:35

       Mm.

   16. MMMareko Maumasi42:35

       ... but with metal, but you have to have the kind of, uh, the right kind of (gasps) temperature environment, kind of, uh, you- you want as little oxygen in there as possible 'cause the oxy- oxygen creates carbon, um-... or not carbon, but iron oxide that help, uh... kind of is detrimental to creating solid weld bonds. And there are different ways to achieve that, but, um, once the 1080 is the black steel, the black color, and the 15 and 20 is the, is the silver color in this.

   17. JRJoe Rogan43:05

       And what's the difference in the way those steels perform? Is one of them-

   18. MMMareko Maumasi43:08

       So-

   19. JRJoe Rogan43:08

       ... harder or more durable, or-

   20. MMMareko Maumasi43:09

       (clears throat) So, they pretty much-

   21. JRJoe Rogan43:10

       ... holds an edge more?

   22. MMMareko Maumasi43:11

       They pretty much form almo- or perform almost exactly the same. They're, they're in f- in fact, chemically speaking, they're almost exactly the same, except for the 15 and 20, uh, has a high level of nickel in it, 0.2% by volu- or by weight. And so that steel is traditionally used in saw blades, especially large, big, uh, mill band saws. Um, you know, like in Oregon, there's... Like, one of the oldest and continuously running, uh, w- wood sawmill is still there and doing its thing with these giant band saw blades that are, like, 30 feet in di- or, uh-

   23. JRJoe Rogan43:49

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MMMareko Maumasi43:49

       ... in circumference, and they're, like, foot wide, and they're just monsters. And, um-

   25. JRJoe Rogan43:55

       Foot wide? You mean, like, thick?

   26. MMMareko Maumasi43:57

       No, no, no. Like, they're only, like, maybe a 16th of an inch thick, because-

   27. JRJoe Rogan44:01

       Oh, right.

   28. MMMareko Maumasi44:01

       ... you want a narrow saw curve-

   29. JRJoe Rogan44:03

       To cut through, right.

   30. MMMareko Maumasi44:03

       ... so you're not wasting the material. But they're wide to help prevent-
9. 45:13 – 1:12:36

   Heat treating, toughness vs. hardness, and why steel isn’t just steel

   1. MMMareko Maumasi45:13

      I'm just looking to see what the hamon activity looks like.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      What's that mean?

   3. MMMareko Maumasi45:16

      So the hamon is, uh... You can kind of see this line that runs parallel to the cutting edge, and that usually indicates where the soft material stops and the hard material starts. Um, and so the idea with these kind of... uh, the challenge with any knife is making a knife that takes and holds a sharp edge-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:42

      Right.

   5. MMMareko Maumasi45:43

      ... for a good period of time, um-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      And what's the key to that?

   7. MMMareko Maumasi45:45

      ... but is also tough, which means, like-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:48

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMareko Maumasi45:48

      ... you can drop it and it's not gonna break.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Right. So, like, if you wanted a hunting knife or something like that.

   11. MMMareko Maumasi45:53

       So, a hunting knife, a bush knife-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       That's gonna hit bone.

   13. MMMareko Maumasi45:55

       ... a bowing knife. Those are harder working knives, so you want to actually bring that hardness down. You don't have to bring it down a ton, um, but just a few points will make a huge fucking difference in how it performs.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Like this knife here.

   15. MMMareko Maumasi46:06

       Yeah, exactly.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Like, what's the difference in the way that knife is made and this knife is made?

   17. MMMareko Maumasi46:10

       So, they were tempered. They were heat treated the same.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:13

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MMMareko Maumasi46:13

       So they were brought up to, uh, like, 1500 degrees, and then-

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       For people who don't, not listen, or listening, not watching, this is... One of these knives is a hunting knife that, uh...

   21. MMMareko Maumasi46:23

       How does that feel, by the way?

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:24

       It's great, man.

   23. MMMareko Maumasi46:25

       Comfortable?

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       Love it. Yeah.

   25. MMMareko Maumasi46:26

       Nice.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       Um, but it's, uh, it's made very similarly. If you look into the, um, the video of it, the handle is the same and it looks as, it looks very similar. It has a different knife guard, though. That's pretty cool.

   27. GCGuest (secondary clip/reading)46:41

       Hold that line. Hold that little line.

   28. MMMareko Maumasi46:42

       It's higher.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:44

       Like that? Okay.

   30. GCGuest (secondary clip/reading)46:44

       There you go.
10. 58:50 – 1:03:11

    Sharpening fundamentals: honing rods, strops, micro-serrations, and bad gadgets

    1. JRJoe Rogan58:50

       Now, um, there's gotta be an art to, uh, actually sharpening things too, right?

    2. MMMareko Maumasi58:56

       Oh, for sure.

    3. JRJoe Rogan58:58

       And how do you know like the right angle to, uh, approach sharpening?

    4. MMMareko Maumasi59:02

       It's ... I mean, there are a lot ... There are actually a lot of great information online. Uh, there ... Especially i- in big cities like Seattle, LA, New York, uh, Austin, they're ... Portland as well, there are super reputable people not only who will offer service but usually offer lessons as well.

    5. JRJoe Rogan59:21

       Mm.

    6. MMMareko Maumasi59:22

       I suggest like if you can afford it, you know, you can dig around, you can find the stuff online, but it's not the same as having, essentially having a coach next to you saying, "Uh-uh." Or, "Yeah, that's great. That's perfect. That's where you wanna be doing that shit."

    7. JRJoe Rogan59:37

       Do you, do you sharpen both sides?

    8. MMMareko Maumasi59:40

       I do.

    9. JRJoe Rogan59:40

       So you sharpen the top and the bottom?

    10. MMMareko Maumasi59:44

        I'm sorry. You mean how?

    11. JRJoe Rogan59:45

        Both sides of the steel. Like would you sharpen it like this and then flip it over-

    12. MMMareko Maumasi59:48

        Yes.

    13. JRJoe Rogan59:48

        ... and sharpen it like that?

    14. MMMareko Maumasi59:49

        Sorry, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:50

        Now what are those things? They have those metal things where people go shing, shing, shing, shing.

    16. MMMareko Maumasi59:55

        Yeah, so those-

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:56

        You know, those, those ones seem like ... I'm like, "That looks brutal. I wouldn't do that to a good knife."

    18. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:02

        (laughs) It ... So-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

        Am I right thinking that way?

    20. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:04

        Y- Well, it depends on the, the type of steel that your knife's made from-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:07

        Right.

    22. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:07

        ... and then what the material is that those rods are made from. So those are commonly referred to as sharpening rods or sharpening sticks, but the reality is they're not actually sharpening.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

        What are they doing?

    24. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:18

        So they're, uh, more accurately referred to as honing rods. So what's happening at your ... Oops, sorry. At the cutting edge of your knife is you have all these micro-serrations. Essentially, if you go, uh, take, take it under a microscope and look at the cutting edge, it looks like a saw blade.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

        Mm.

    26. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:35

        But they're, like they're fucking microns. A micron is a millionth of a meter, like they're teeny tiny. So, but what happens over normal use, uh, those teeth, they, they bend over, they flex over, or sometimes they eventually wear out and fall off. And so what the honing rod does, especially if they've bent over-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

        There it is. He's showing it right there. Ooh.

    28. MMMareko Maumasi1:00:57

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

        Exciting, look at that blade edge. Oh.

    30. MMMareko Maumasi1:01:02

        Yeah, so you-
11. 1:03:11 – 1:09:42

    Hunting broadheads and blade geometry: why toughness and design win

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:03:11

       Literally. Yeah. Um, there's a, a big debate in th- uh, the world of bow hunting-

    2. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:18

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:03:18

       ... with broad heads, with, uh, what kind of steel to use.

    4. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:22

       Mm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:03:23

       And, uh, there's, there's harder steel that, uh, some people use, but it breaks.

    6. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:29

       Interesting.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:03:29

       And there's, there's an issue with that. And there's, there's, like, this big debate, harder versus steel that is-

    8. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:35

       Okay.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:03:35

       ... less hard, but will bend more and give slightly more. You know, and then there's, um, there's, uh, the broad head that I use, which is, uh, a carbon steel broad head from a company called G5.

    10. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:47

        Okay.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:03:47

        They make this, uh, broad head called a Montec. Let's pull up, um, G5 carbon steel Montec. Mont-

    12. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:55

        So you're talking-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:03:55

        Montec CS, they call them.

    14. MMMareko Maumasi1:03:57

        So you're talking, it's just the head, like, the-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:03:59

        Mm-hmm. Just what-

    16. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:00

        ... the triangular-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:04:01

        ... what you would use for hunting.

    18. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:02

        ... or is it even a triangle? Okay.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:04:03

        Um, the one that I use, yeah, it is. It's, uh, it, it has, uh... Was that three points or four points? Here, he'll pull it up. You see it.

    20. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:11

        Yeah, yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:04:11

        That's it.

    22. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:12

        Oh, yeah. Sure.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:04:13

        So it's three points. But that's, that's a carbon steel broad head.

    24. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:16

        Okay.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:04:16

        That's what I shot my elk with last year with, and that thing's virtually indestructible.

    26. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:22

        Yeah. There's, uh, I would say-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:04:23

        I have a crazy photograph. I'll show you this crazy video. Oh, I put it up on my Instagram. Find it on my Instagram, where, um, uh, my... I was fucking around with something on my bow at, at full draw. I was trying to set something, and the b- (laughs) the bow went off, and it hit a cement wall, and it stuck into the wall, like...

    28. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:43

        Like cinder block or solid cement?

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:45

        Solid cement wall.

    30. MMMareko Maumasi1:04:46

        Jesus.
12. 1:09:42 – 1:21:51

    Food, wild game, and cooking as another form of craftsmanship

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:09:42

       Yeah, man. Uh, you know, while I learned how to cook, I mean, I, I, I feel like there's some real art to that as well, from, uh, my friend Chad Ward, Whiskey Bend BBQ on, um, uh, Instagram. He's a, like a, a pit master, like a legit-

    2. MMMareko Maumasi1:09:57

       Sure.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:09:58

       ... world champion barbecue master, and he's the one that taught me how to cook slowly at low temperatures.

    4. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:04

       Right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:10:04

       And then sear it after you're done. I, uh, I always thought you're supposed to just put it on high heat, cook the shit out of it, and then eat it, you know?

    6. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:13

       Yeah. I mean- (sighs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:10:14

       It tastes fine that way too, but, you know, when you're dealing ... What I really had to learn-

    8. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:19

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:10:19

       ... uh, especially in particular, cooking with, um, wild game is very unforgiving.

    10. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:25

        Oh, fuck.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:10:25

        Because it's-

    12. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:26

        It's low in fat.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:10:27

        Yeah, it's got none.

    14. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:28

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:10:28

        It's, you're basically eating a sprinter. (laughs)

    16. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:32

        (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:10:32

        Like, here it is right there.

    18. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:34

        The, the ... Yeah, yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:10:34

        So that's the end I, uh, reverse sear it in a pan with grass-fed, buddy. You hear that, baby?

    20. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:38

        That's beautiful.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:10:39

        Listen to that sound. Oh.

    22. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:41

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:10:43

        Oh. That's the last of my backstrap. I gotta, I gotta get some more meat.

    24. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:49

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:10:50

        I eat the f-, I eat so much meat, it's crazy.

    26. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:53

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:10:54

        Su-, super healthy though, bitch.

    28. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:56

        Yeah. (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:10:56

        Fuck what you heard.

    30. MMMareko Maumasi1:10:58

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:52:26