Joe Rogan Experience #1172 - Morgan Fallon

1. 0:00 – 2:07

   Why Morgan wanted to talk about Anthony Bourdain (and how they met)

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      All right. Four, three, two, one. (claps) What's up, Mo?

   2. MFMorgan Fallon0:08

      What's up, man? How you doing?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      How are you, buddy? Good to see you, man.

   4. MFMorgan Fallon0:10

      Good. It's good to see you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Um, I'm glad we decided to get together and do this, you know, and, and talk and, um, you know, it's c- it's a crazy subject, right? I mean, uh, you and I have known each other for since 2012 when, uh, I did Meat Eater. You were there filming when I shot my first deer, which is a very important part of my life, man. And, um, then you went on to, uh, direct and produce Parts Unknown with our late friend, Anthony Bourdain. And, uh, we just thought it'd probably be a good thing to come in here and just talk, talk about him.

   6. MFMorgan Fallon0:44

      Yeah, man. And, uh, and I'm really grateful for it, you know. It's actually, you know, a lot of people, um, have been saying to me like, "Oh, it must be really hard to talk about that. It must really..." It's, I actually find it kind of the opposite. Like I wanna talk about him and I wanna talk about who he was and what that experience was, you know, so, um, thanks, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:05

      My pleasure, brother. Did you, did you know him before you guys started working together?

   8. MFMorgan Fallon1:10

      No. No. I met Tony, uh, 10 years ago and I was called in, uh, he had a, a DP on his show who, at the last minute, canceled and couldn't go to Egypt, so, uh, I got a call like a week before, you know. He's like, "Do you wanna go to Egypt with Anthony Bourdain?" I was like, "Y- yeah, fuck yeah, absolutely." (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:29

      Right.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon1:30

       You know. Um, and, uh, and so I met him in Cairo, man. Like, you know-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Wow.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon1:34

       ... it was kinda like perfect, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Holy shit. That's like Indiana Jones type of shit. (laughs)

   14. MFMorgan Fallon1:38

       (laughs) Yeah, yeah. Exactly, man.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       Is that the episode when you guys ate a camel?

   16. MFMorgan Fallon1:42

       No. No. We didn't eat a camel.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       Oh, that was a different one?

   18. MFMorgan Fallon1:44

       No. But, um, you know, uh, I met him there. You know, we started filming. We were on the streets of Cairo and like, you know, it's just like all of a sudden, I was thrown into these kitchens where it's like, "We're eating pigeon." You know, it's like, "Go and cover them cooking pigeon." And, you know, I had-

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       Right.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon2:01

       ... I had seen the show like maybe once before, but I had n- I knew who he was and I knew what that adventure was.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Right.

2. 2:07 – 3:26

   Earning Tony’s respect: the desert shoot and “roof-bed” Land Rover stunt

   1. MFMorgan Fallon2:07

      You know, and I was so amped for it. Um, and then there was like this seminal moment on that show where, uh, we go out and we, we go ripping across the desert with the Bedouin and go out and cook a goat, uh, in the ground, you know. Um, and so as we're driving out over the desert, we're like, "Well, we need to get, we need some shots from car to car," right? And I was like, "I'll get on the roof," you know. And, uh, and there's like this four, for some reason, there's a four-post bed tied to the roof of this, uh, Land Rover.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      (laughs)

   3. MFMorgan Fallon2:39

      And so I get up there and kinda like l- you know, latch my arm around it, and these guys take off at, I, I swear, 80 miles an hour across the desert. I mean...

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:48

      And you're on a bed?

   5. MFMorgan Fallon2:49

      Absolutely. (laughs) Yeah. Absolutely no regard for the fact that like (laughs) I'm on the roof, you know, um, shooting. And, uh, and when we got there, we got to camp. I survived it. Um, I had this big black and blue where I was holding onto the four-post bed. And I, I go over and I show Tony, and, um, that was it, man. From that moment on, (laughs) he was, he was like, "I like this guy." (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:16

      (laughs)

   7. MFMorgan Fallon3:16

      And I started going out with him, you know. I started getting invited to do more shows.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      Wow.

   9. MFMorgan Fallon3:20

      So that was it, man.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:22

       How many years did you do it? How many years?

   11. MFMorgan Fallon3:23

       10 years.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       Wow.

   13. MFMorgan Fallon3:25

       10 years, yeah.

3. 3:26 – 5:13

   From No Reservations to Parts Unknown: CNN resources and creative freedom

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      That's crazy. I didn't realize that Parts Unknown was even o- were, were you doing No Reservations first?

   2. MFMorgan Fallon3:31

      Yeah. So that was a No Reservation show.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      Oh.

   4. MFMorgan Fallon3:33

      And then we went to Parts Unknown, uh, five years ago.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      Wow. You f- so Parts Unknown's been o- on for five years or so?

   6. MFMorgan Fallon3:40

      Yeah. Yeah. And that, uh, you know, that transition... No, No Reservation was great, uh, and it really laid the foundation for what we do, what Tony did. Um, I think it really built an audience and a following for him. Um, but-

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      That's where I found out about him.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon3:55

      R- right. Exactly. It was a, hey, it was a great show.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:57

      Yeah.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon3:57

       You know. Um, but that, like that transition going onto CNN, going into Parts Unknown, that really, um, that really changed things. That really opened up a lot of locations and stuff that we didn't have access to before. It opened up, you know, kind of CNN's, um, logistics, uh, Rolodex and-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Mm.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon4:17

       ... you know, things that we didn't have, uh, at the other network. You know, and, uh, and so that's, uh, you know, No Reservations was awesome. We did some incredible shows. Uh, Parts Unknown's were, got really fun.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:30

       Yeah. Uh, that was on another level. I remember watching the change. I was like, okay, this is more, more him, you know. The, everything from the opening music to the tone of it and the narration.

   14. MFMorgan Fallon4:40

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Yeah.

   16. MFMorgan Fallon4:40

       For sure. And then, and, uh, you know, you gotta hand it to CNN too is like we, all of a sudden, we had these creative partners who were like w- willing to let him be him.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       Mm. Yeah.

   18. MFMorgan Fallon4:50

       You know, like willing to let him do a show like the Tokyo show where we're like, you know, really climbing into, um, Japanese subcultures, rope bondage, tentacle porn.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       Yeah.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon5:01

       You know, all this stuff that-

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:02

       Yeah.

   22. MFMorgan Fallon5:03

       ... most network executives (laughs) are probably-

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       (laughs)

   24. MFMorgan Fallon5:06

       ... a little bit leery of. You know, CNN-

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:07

       Yeah.

   26. MFMorgan Fallon5:07

       ... was kinda like, you know, "Go for it, man. Be yourself, you know, and let's figure out what this is together," you know.

4. 5:13 – 6:48

   The narration “lightning bolt”: how Tony’s writing made the show come alive

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:13

      That's amazing. That, that, that really is amazing. And, but the, one of the things that really made that show was Tony's narration because the narration gave you a sense of the way his, his sort of passion and enthusiasm for the world and for various aspects of cooking and travel and food and culture. Like you got it through his own words, you know.

   2. MFMorgan Fallon5:33

      Yeah. I think that's, um... I mean, uh, maybe in some ways, the most important aspect of the show. Uh, you know, it, I mean, he is after all a writer, right?

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:43

      Yeah.

   4. MFMorgan Fallon5:43

      You know, and, um, and that is how he experienced the world. Um, but actually making the shows and let- you know, the, the-... technical part of actually making the shows, you know, w- w- we'd... Once you'd go through and kinda edit the show and n- none of that voiceover was in at the rough cut phase, and you send it out to him and get his writing back and record that VO... And I keep describing it as like that kind of Dr. Frankenstein lightning bolt to the temples kinda moment where, like, the monster rises.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:15

      Yeah.

   6. MFMorgan Fallon6:15

      It would really just bring the show to life. So this kinda carcass that was laid out in rough cut form on the table all of a sudden just gasped and jumped up and, you know, it was really beautiful, like, to see that and to have... Uh, you know, as a director, as a producer, as a creative, you know, at any level, you know, to have that kind of power-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:37

      Yeah.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon6:37

      ... um, to have his voice and his writing and his introspection and thoughts and, you know, um, that would have... Like, powerful, you know, powerful force to work with.

5. 6:48 – 13:43

   Food as culture (not a “food show”): street food, context, and the chef as artist

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      Well, it was a brilliant design, the way the show was put together. That narration really did make it something special and different from all those other kinds of shows, because it... Just his articulate and insightful and poetic and artistic view of these things, that he had this infectious passion for things. He completely changed the way I thought about cooking. I'd always thought about cooking as, "Oh, this guy knows how to make delicious food. Oh, this place has good ribs." And then, when I saw his show, when I saw Parts Unknown, I went, "Oh, it's an art form. It's just an art form that you eat."

   2. MFMorgan Fallon7:25

      Absolutely. This is-

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:25

      Like an temporary art form.

   4. MFMorgan Fallon7:27

      Yeah. And, and even beyond that, it's an art form that's in- that's taking and incorporating all of these greater kind of macro social elements of, you know, where you are, the history of where you are, you know, what people did for a living-

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:42

      Yeah.

   6. MFMorgan Fallon7:42

      ... what people's ancestors did for a living, you know. It, um, it's rooted in so much more. And what I think, you know, you know, ultimately, it feels like we kinda joke around a lot and say like, "Yeah, it's a food show." It's not a food show, you know. But the reason that worked, I think, is because of what you're saying, and, you know, that food, um, food is an art form that incorporates all of these other aspects. And so it can be a jumping point off for exploration into anything you wanna talk about.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:12

      Yeah.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon8:12

      We talked about the history of a place, the politics of a place, you know, uh, the religion of a place, you know, all of these things that inform who people are. Well, that's all writ into the cuisine of a place or an area, you know.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:26

      Yeah. And, and he was into stuff that wasn't necessarily even like high, you know, high dollar items. He was into, like, street food.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon8:37

       Definitely, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       Yeah. It wasn't just the finest French, you know, bistros where these celebrated world famous chefs were cooking these bizarre small plate sort of masterpieces. No, he would love street tacos.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon8:51

       Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and again, I think that was kind of like a whole new kind of fresh take on looking at food, you know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:59

       Yeah.

   14. MFMorgan Fallon8:59

       It's like it's easy to, you know, to look at these kind of high-end French preparations, these highly talented, you know, highly trained French chefs, um, and there's, there's tremendous beauty in that-

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:12

       Yeah.

   16. MFMorgan Fallon9:12

       ... and all of those other things we talked about. But to look at the woman on the corner that's (laughs) , you know, that's making, uh, you know, the best, you know, lengua tacos, like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:23

       Yeah.

   18. MFMorgan Fallon9:24

       ... that was revolutionary. And then the realization that all of that, all of that greatness, all of that nuance, all of that flavor, you know, um, was contained right within there. That was an access point to it as well. It's just an access point that everyone can afford-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:41

       Right.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon9:41

       ... that everyone can go in. And, uh, you know, I mean, right place at the right time. I think that people, like, it seems like the culture at large was ready for that, ready for that, like, experience in food and ready to kind of chase that. 'Cause now, I mean, that's, that's all anyone wants now, you know.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:59

       Well, I think it's because of him. I really do. I really do 'cause, I mean, I'm sure that he changed the way I look at things-

   22. MFMorgan Fallon10:05

       For sure. Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       ... in terms of food. And I think he had that effect on many people. I mean, you think about how many years was Parts Un- Unknown for? Five, and then No Reservations for nine?

   24. MFMorgan Fallon10:15

       No Reservations, yeah, for about ten, and then there was Cook's Tour before that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       Right. So-

   26. MFMorgan Fallon10:20

       The original incarnation.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       All told, a decade and a half of his-

   28. MFMorgan Fallon10:24

       Seven to eight, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:25

       ... influence on people's food choices and, and just appreciation for food. I mean, I know personally, I've had some great meals in restaurants, but some of my favorite meals have been, like, stepping outside of a bar, you know. It's 1:30, you got a little buzz on and some dude's got a taco truck and you're like, "Oh, baby, what do you got over there, my friend?"

   30. MFMorgan Fallon10:42

       (laughs)
6. 13:43 – 17:52

   Punk-rock Tony: partying stories, Joe Beef, and “the dinner companion” idea

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:43

      Tony also had this sort of punk rock sensibility to it all too. You know, I mean, that was part of the thing about him that people found appealing is that they had seen cooking shows before, but they never saw cooking shows where the host gets fucked up, you know.

   2. MFMorgan Fallon13:58

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:58

      Like, dude, I was ... First time I partied with him, I'm like, "This guy goes so hard." (laughs)

   4. MFMorgan Fallon14:03

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:03

      That was amazing.

   6. MFMorgan Fallon14:04

      Yeah, tell me about it, man. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:05

      It was amazing. I was like, "I can't believe he can do this all the time."

   8. MFMorgan Fallon14:08

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      Like, I think one of the first times we ever got ... Hung out together was in, um, Montreal. We were there for, uh, UFC fights and we went out afterwards and got ... Uh, we had some steaks and it was just amazing walking into this restaurant and people freaking out. One guy actually had a copy of Ki- Kitchen Confidential in the actual kitchen itself and had Tony sign it. It was pretty fucking badass.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon14:30

       Where, where'd you go? Do you remember?

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       I do not remember.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon14:31

       Was it Joe Beef?

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:33

       No, it wasn't, but he turned me onto Joe Beef.

   14. MFMorgan Fallon14:34

       (laughs) Whoo. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:34

       And I've eaten there several times since then.

   16. MFMorgan Fallon14:37

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       Those guys are coming on the podcast too.

   18. MFMorgan Fallon14:38

       I love those guys. Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       Fred and Dave.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon14:40

       Awesome.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:40

       Yeah. No, they're fucking amazing. That restaurant is one of my favorite restaurants on the planet.

   22. MFMorgan Fallon14:44

       No doubt, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       Yeah.

   24. MFMorgan Fallon14:44

       But they'll, they'll hurt you. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       Yeah, they- they c- they keep it coming.

   26. MFMorgan Fallon14:48

       Yeah, for sure. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:49

       Yeah.

   28. MFMorgan Fallon14:50

       They'll give you an inch thick slab of foie gras, you know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:52

       Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, their show, um, one of the ones that I really loved was the one where they did, um, ice fishing. They were on-

   30. MFMorgan Fallon15:01

       Yeah.
7. 17:52 – 21:48

   Hearing the news: Joe’s grief and the shock of losing Tony

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:52

      Were you with him when, when it ended?

   2. MFMorgan Fallon17:56

      No. Uh, no. I was with him, um, about a week and a half before. Uh, so, no, I had, uh, good friends that were there.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:06

      I was in, um, Chicago.... and, uh, I woke up and I checked my phone.

   4. MFMorgan Fallon18:12

      Oh.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:13

      And I got a text from my friend Maynard, uh, Maynard Keenan (clears throat) (exhales) from Tool. And, um, Maynard is a jujitsu brown belt and really loves jujitsu. And he, and he, um, texted me and he said, "So much for the, uh, Maynard versus Anthony Bourdain celebrity jujitsu match." And that's the whole text. And, um, you know, just sunk, sunk a pit in my stomach. And I just wa- I just picked up my phone and went into Google, and I looked it up, (exhales) and I saw it, I'm just like, "Oh, fuck." (exhales) I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And I was ... started crying. (exhales) I think, I think I called my wife. I think I called Maynard. Or I texted him, I called my wife, (sniffs) called a few friends. You know, just like, you know, just couldn't believe ... You know, when someone's just not there anymore. I didn't get to see him a lot, but I was just a- just appreciated the fuck out of that dude. You know? Like, I don't wanna do anybody's TV show, but when I got a call from him, I was like, "Fuck yeah."

   6. MFMorgan Fallon19:41

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:41

      What are we gonna do? We're gonna shoot pheasants and, and hunt and camp and we're gonna cook by the campfire? Fuck, I'm in, dude.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon19:48

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:48

      You know? I'm in. I just really, uh, appreciated him as a, a genuine, unique person. Like he's a genuine rare person. And, uh, you know, that's, that's what I got out of being ... (exhales) Being able to spend some time with him and being able to talk to him and pick his brain and he did my podcast once, we always planned on doing it again, we sh- we never got around to it 'cause we're both have ridiculous schedules. But just my- I would think about things differently because of him. Like, uh, my- I, I wa- I wi- sometimes, like, hold things to his standards and he ch- like, legitimately, his appreciation for things and his enthusiasm for things changed the way I look at a lot of, a lot of aspects of food and, and culture and, and, and even travel. You know?

   10. MFMorgan Fallon20:44

       (sniffs) Yeah. I mean, um, I'm sorry, man. And I, you know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:50

       Yeah.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon20:50

       And I know he thought very highly of you and that was ... That experience in Montana was fantastic, man.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:55

       So fun.

   14. MFMorgan Fallon20:56

       Um, you know, I-

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:59

       (sniffs)

   16. MFMorgan Fallon21:01

       It's been, I, it's been a rough three months and it's still hard for me to really contextualize it and, and put it together. It feels like, you know, upside down world. Like, there's no ... And he was such a, I mean, he was a friend and a collaborator and a, you know, but also just such an icon to me. You know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Yeah.

   18. MFMorgan Fallon21:21

       And, um, and, uh, that it's almost like, you know, it's almost like the sun disappears. You know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:29

       Yeah.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon21:29

       It's something that is so just inherently-

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:32

       Part of life.

   22. MFMorgan Fallon21:33

       ... there and, and dependable and, you know. (laughs) Um, so, yeah. I mean, it's been-

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:41

       (sniffs)

   24. MFMorgan Fallon21:42

       I- it's hard to describe how, how, um, profound that's been. Um-

8. 21:48 – 31:21

   Bourdain’s jiu-jitsu obsession: discipline, ego loss, and transformation

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:48

      I remember when he got into jujitsu I got psyched 'cause I'm like, "We got more to talk about now."

   2. MFMorgan Fallon21:53

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:53

      I could, I could actually, I could actually show him some shit. (laughs)

   4. MFMorgan Fallon21:57

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:57

      You know?

   6. MFMorgan Fallon21:58

      See-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:58

      And he was always e- like, asking about things.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon22:00

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:00

      You know? He's really into things.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon22:02

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:02

       Remember when we were in Montana, we were rolling around on the dirt.

   12. MFMorgan Fallon22:04

       I know, right? I remember.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:05

       I was showing him stuff, him and Josh.

   14. MFMorgan Fallon22:06

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:06

       I was like, "Like, when you're in here, like, here's what you can do. You can get-" And he's like-

   16. MFMorgan Fallon22:10

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:10

       ... "Oh, yeah."

   18. MFMorgan Fallon22:11

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:11

       He's like ... He was so, uh, wide-eyed, you know. I think it was before he even got his blue belt or maybe it was, like, a round blue belt. So he was super, super jacked about it and he was doing it every day. I remember when we were, we were filming, we were outside of Billings. Is that where we were? Where were we?

   20. MFMorgan Fallon22:27

       Yeah. Well, where The Hunt was.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       Yeah.

   22. MFMorgan Fallon22:29

       The, The Hunt, we were in, like, uh, up in Central Montana, you know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       Right.

   24. MFMorgan Fallon22:33

       So, um, we kind of started in Billings, but we headed up towards Central Montana.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       He was training so often, and even on the road, that he traveled to, uh, a club. There was just a jujitsu club in Bozeman.

   26. MFMorgan Fallon22:45

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:45

       And he found some guys and he was rolling with these guys in Bozeman.

   28. MFMorgan Fallon22:47

       Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:48

       I was like, "Damn, you're doing it every day?"

   30. MFMorgan Fallon22:50

       Well, that was a-
9. 31:21 – 34:40

   Television politics and “ghost shows”: why Parts Unknown found the right home

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:21

      How did it wind up at CNN?

   2. MFMorgan Fallon31:23

      ... y- that's the show.

   3. JRJoe Rogan31:23

      Were there some other options? 'Cause I know he had a giant problem with the Travel Channel because I know he had told me that they, they fucked him over and did some Cadillac ad and-

   4. MFMorgan Fallon31:31

      Yeah, yeah. I know he was really pissed about the Cadillac ad.

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:34

      What, what, what, what was that about?

   6. MFMorgan Fallon31:36

      I don't re- ... Uh, you know, honestly, I don't really know a lot of the details of the whole story.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:40

      Right.

   8. MFMorgan Fallon31:40

      I don't know what other deals were on the table besides CNN, but it's safe to say that the, I think, the relationship with Travel Channel was toxic before that, you know? I mean, again-

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:49

      Well, Travel Channel is a religious-owned place, at least was. I don't know if still is. I think the original people that owned it... Because my friend Bert Kreischer has a show over there or had a show over there, a couple shows, Bert the Conqueror and what was his other show? Hurt Bert. Yeah, it was a ... She's this crazy asshole.

   10. MFMorgan Fallon32:05

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:06

       But, uh, you know, Bert had issues with that too. Like-

   12. MFMorgan Fallon32:09

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:09

       ... where he would be on the show, if we'd all be hanging out together, if he wanted to smoke pot, he had to make sure that Jamie turned the camera away from him-

   14. MFMorgan Fallon32:15

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       ... 'cause they couldn't see him smoke pot.

   16. MFMorgan Fallon32:16

       Oh, no. We couldn't ... Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, but I ... And listen, I don't have any, like, inside information, so this is purely, like, my outside perspective. I don't do the deals and I don't-

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:25

       Right.

   18. MFMorgan Fallon32:25

       ... you know, deal in that stuff. I make the shows. You know? But, uh, you know, I saw a network that was more interested in making, like, you know, the shows about sandcastles, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:35

       Yeah.

   20. MFMorgan Fallon32:35

       And, uh, and ghosts, you know, than, than-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:38

       That's right. They had a bunch of ghost shows.

   22. MFMorgan Fallon32:39

       A lot of ghost shows.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       Yeah. But ghost shows-

   24. MFMorgan Fallon32:41

       You know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       ... are fucking popular.

   26. MFMorgan Fallon32:43

       (laughs) Yeah, they're really popular, man. I mean-

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:44

       So stupid.

   28. MFMorgan Fallon32:45

       You know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:45

       They are the dumbest fucking shows on television and there's like a hundred of them. (laughs)

   30. MFMorgan Fallon32:50

       (laughs)
10. 34:40 – 40:48

    Hard hunts and real endurance: filming with Steve Rinella and what it teaches

    1. JRJoe Rogan34:40

       Are you gonna do more stuff with, um, Steve at Meat Eater?

    2. MFMorgan Fallon34:43

       I'll, I'll go out with Steve anytime he calls. I just need a little more advance warning these days.

    3. JRJoe Rogan34:48

       Right.

    4. MFMorgan Fallon34:48

       I think they called me last week to see if I wanted to do an elk hunt.

    5. JRJoe Rogan34:51

       Now, if you do that, would you try to get in shape first? Like, like heavy duty?

    6. MFMorgan Fallon34:55

       Yeah, absolutely.

    7. JRJoe Rogan34:56

       Yeah.

    8. MFMorgan Fallon34:56

       'Cause the last time I went out was when I got my ass kicked.

    9. JRJoe Rogan34:58

       That's fucking rough.

    10. MFMorgan Fallon34:59

        Are you kidding, man? Dude, he's got y- he has ... I mean, talk about a guy with, like ... You know, he has no empathy whatsoever for, um, for the people he's with (laughs) who maybe can't keep up with him-

    11. JRJoe Rogan35:12

        No.

    12. MFMorgan Fallon35:12

        ... man, when you're in the f- ... It's like if you can't make that hike, you're just-

    13. JRJoe Rogan35:15

        Yeah.

    14. MFMorgan Fallon35:15

        ... not making that hike, you know?

    15. JRJoe Rogan35:16

        Yeah. And, you know, he weighs 110 pounds and he can walk for days.

    16. MFMorgan Fallon35:21

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan35:21

        Yeah. And he's been doing this since he was a baby.

    18. MFMorgan Fallon35:23

        Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan35:25

        Yeah. (laughs)

    20. MFMorgan Fallon35:26

        No, man. I went ... The last time I went out with him was, uh, I guess two years ago, I went up to Alaska, um, and did the black tail hunt, but we actually had nice weather, which was kind of unbelievable 'cause I know you've been up there when it's like, you know, 10 days of rain coming in sideways.

    21. JRJoe Rogan35:40

        It was rough. Yeah, we had to leave-

    22. MFMorgan Fallon35:41

        You know?

    23. JRJoe Rogan35:41

        ... early last time I was there because a storm was coming and we had to make a decision.

    24. MFMorgan Fallon35:44

        But there's a storm coming every time we go up there.

    25. JRJoe Rogan35:46

        But we weren't gonna be able to get out. There was a possibility-

    26. MFMorgan Fallon35:48

        Right, exactly.

    27. JRJoe Rogan35:49

        But part of me was like, even though we're rain soaked, I wanna hunt the last six hours.

    28. MFMorgan Fallon35:56

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan35:56

        Because if I stay the last day, never know. That might be the ... I mean, that's so many times. That's, that's when you hook up with an animal.

    30. MFMorgan Fallon36:03

        Absolutely.
11. 40:48 – 42:43

    Hunting ethics and media perception: from Cecil the lion to responsible limits

    1. MFMorgan Fallon40:48

       Yeah, man. It's the... It's... I, I... So I, I, I don't know. There's so many just, like, really glib interpretations of, like, the motivation behind hunting, you know. There's the cruelty and blood lust and all th- it's like-

    2. JRJoe Rogan40:59

       Because in its worst f- cases, that's th- that's true.

    3. MFMorgan Fallon41:03

       Yeah. And because I, I, I do think that hunting shows for years, that's a lot of what they put forward, was like kind of machismo and guys shooting, you know, black bears over, you know, donut barrels.

    4. JRJoe Rogan41:14

       Mm-hmm.

    5. MFMorgan Fallon41:15

       You know? Um, for all the wrong reasons, you know.

    6. JRJoe Rogan41:18

       But the, but least we think of that as something that people... Or at least I do, think of that as something that people eat for food. When you think about Cecil, like Cecil the lion-

    7. MFMorgan Fallon41:27

       Yeah. Yeah, sure.

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:27

       Like, that kind of shit really sours people on the idea of hunting because there's no justification for the average person for shooting a lion. I mean-

    9. MFMorgan Fallon41:34

       Right.

    10. JRJoe Rogan41:34

        ... you have to... You would have to do decades of education about conservation and the importance of the money that goes for the hunt, and then they still don't get it because they're like, "Why would you want to shoot a lion?" And that's the good question.

    11. MFMorgan Fallon41:45

        Right.

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:46

        The good question is-

    13. MFMorgan Fallon41:47

        It-

    14. JRJoe Rogan41:47

        ... why would you want to shoot a lion?

    15. MFMorgan Fallon41:47

        I- But it... You know, and I would say it's a good question for me too. I, like, I definitely have limits. You know, as much as I went around with Steve, um, I have limits on what I would personally choose to do. And I got to say the Africa stuff, for me, man, I just... It's not interesting to me, you know.

    16. JRJoe Rogan42:02

        The only thing that's interesting to me in Africa would be to hunt something that I would eat. So like-

    17. MFMorgan Fallon42:06

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan42:07

        ... if they have antelope in Africa, I would love to hunt an antelope.

    19. MFMorgan Fallon42:09

        Yeah, they got a lot of those.

    20. JRJoe Rogan42:10

        Yeah.

    21. MFMorgan Fallon42:10

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan42:10

        Hunt an antelope and cook it and eat it.

    23. MFMorgan Fallon42:13

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:13

        That, that to me makes sense. There's no way I want to shoot a hippo or anything else cr- I mean, even if people do eat hippos, and I understand they do, that... Okay-... good luck.

    25. MFMorgan Fallon42:24

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan42:25

        I don't, I don't wanna have nothing to do with any of that.

    27. MFMorgan Fallon42:27

        No, me neither, man.

    28. JRJoe Rogan42:27

        But, but game animals that have been... that are delicious, nilgai, things like that-

    29. MFMorgan Fallon42:33

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan42:33

        ... that people have eaten forever and that they, they hunt just like they hunt elk or deer here, that to me makes sense. It would be just a, an adventure to go to Africa. But Africa's so fucking scary. It's so sketchy.

12. 42:43 – 52:05

    Finding stories anywhere: Africa’s reality vs. media fear, and the West Virginia Emmy

    1. MFMorgan Fallon42:43

       I love... I mean, see I, I love Africa and I, I became like, I kinda took all the Africa shows I could on Parts Unknown.

    2. JRJoe Rogan42:51

       Really? Would you love to sleep up at my place?

    3. MFMorgan Fallon42:53

       That's, to me, it's like the most, most like wonderful place. I... Well, um, ah, first of all, I think there's, there's like a... I think it's a... there's a lot of misperception when it comes. I've never had a negative experience there. I've n- I've had maybe... I had one experience that was kind of quasi-threatening, you know?

    4. JRJoe Rogan43:12

       Quasi?

    5. MFMorgan Fallon43:12

       We got a... Yeah, I mean, you know, we had a crowd kinda turn on us and throw rocks at us as we were driving away. That's the one experience, there were like hundreds of experiences-

    6. JRJoe Rogan43:22

       What was that about?

    7. MFMorgan Fallon43:22

       Well, we were in, uh, we were in Goma, in the DRC, you know, and it's just a, it's just a really, really chaotic place. The place has been run over by civil wars for decades. Um, people are in serious desperation, but I think worse than any of that, there's a huge culture of, um, of non-profit organizations and stuff there. So, I think they're used to kinda white folks coming in with this very patronizing kind of view, um, and then we're down there with cameras, filming them, and then all of a sudden they realize that we're not paying anyone for this. You know? And, uh, and I think, you know, there's a tendency from people to feel like, "Well, you're here taking something from us," you know? "You're clearly making more money than any of us will ever, you know, be able to make and, uh, and what the fuck do we get for it?" You know? And I can understand that point of view. Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan44:14

       And how did it turn into them throwing rocks at you guys?

    9. MFMorgan Fallon44:16

       No, we, d- d... You know, again, they realized that we weren't gonna be paying for any of this, you know? Our security team was like, "Hey, guys. Time to get in the car." And as soon as you get in the car and you're leaving, it's like, "Oh, these fucking assholes, man."

    10. JRJoe Rogan44:31

        Mm-hmm.

    11. MFMorgan Fallon44:31

        "They just came down here, got, got all their footage, and they're gonna pack up and go back to their nice hotel." You know? Um, but that's the one experience, man. There were like a lot of experiences there. You know, for the most part, I found people there to be like incredibly gracious. You know? I found it to be one, one of the most hopeful places, honestly. Um, my day-to-day experiences in Africa, I saw people who were working their asses off on a grassroots level. The v- the like... Some of the most, um, you know, some of the most like dynamic, grassroots capitalism that I've ever seen. I mean, people who will literally find any s- any way to scrape out an existence and a living. You know? This is not like... This is not a lazy culture. This is a culture that will fight through anything. You know? You go to Lagos, and Lagos is one of the most dynamic cities I've ever been in. It was constantly moving, constantly people trying to make money, constantly people trying to find a niche, you know, in a city of 20 million people. You know? So, I find a lot of beauty in just like raw human endeavor there.

    12. JRJoe Rogan45:41

        Mm-hmm.

    13. MFMorgan Fallon45:42

        And I think that, you know, if they can clear some of the, like obvious stumbling blocks that they have in terms of corruption, in terms of, you know, foreign pressure, um, in terms of, you know, manipulation of markets, um, th- there's, there's tremendous promise there. I mean like d- just in, just in terms of the just, um, the internet and technology sector in Africa is like absolutely booming. You know? You have kids that come in from the villages on the streets of Lagos who can take your computer apart and rebuild it by hand. You know? Self-taught. And all of that potential is there to be tapped. You know? And, and they're starting to. You know? So, I guess I just find it a hopeful place.

    14. JRJoe Rogan46:32

        That's amazing that you only had one bad experience.

    15. MFMorgan Fallon46:34

        Only one. Only one. But I can say that about traveling the world kind of in general. I mean, we've been in a number of, you know, relatively hot zones. I mean, we never did active conflict because we don't, you know, make that kinda show. Um, but, you know, being in places like Gaza or the DRC, or-

    16. JRJoe Rogan46:52

        Mm-hmm.

    17. MFMorgan Fallon46:52

        You know, I, I can count on one hand in, you know, in many, many years of doing this, you know, the number of times that I actually felt threatened by someone. You know? I've found that the most likely scenario is you're gonna get like accosted by a sandwich, you know, or someone trying to, you know, introduce you to their kids, you know, or take a selfie with you. And that's, that's the world that I know. (laughs) I don't really understand the world that we see (laughs) , you know, on TV here, man, 'cause that's not, that's not my experience. You know?

    18. JRJoe Rogan47:24

        Right.

    19. MFMorgan Fallon47:24

        You know? A lot of good people. Uh, a- and again, getting back to Tony, I think that, you know, uh, that's the legacy, right? I think that he really showed people that.

    20. JRJoe Rogan47:34

        That is a problem with our view of the world is that if it doesn't look scary, they're not gonna show it to you.

    21. MFMorgan Fallon47:39

        No. They're totally-

    22. JRJoe Rogan47:39

        'Cause if it's not dangerous... I mean, other than his show, what else are you seeing on CNN where they're in Africa where it's a good thing? What else are you seeing where people are in Egypt where it's a good thing? What else are you seeing where people are interacting with people on the street and there's not some sort of a murder story or-

    23. MFMorgan Fallon47:58

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan47:58

        ... a rape story or something awful?

    25. MFMorgan Fallon48:02

        Yeah. I mean, uh, I think you're starting, you're starting to see it a little bit. Um, but mostly you're seeing it in like, you know, on like CNN's Africa, you know, Network or-

    26. JRJoe Rogan48:12

        Mm-hmm.

    27. MFMorgan Fallon48:13

        ... you know? There, you're starting to see them covering stories about entrepreneurs and seeing-

    28. JRJoe Rogan48:17

        Right.

    29. MFMorgan Fallon48:19

        You know, d- positive aspects, you know, building economies and stuff like that, but-

    30. JRJoe Rogan48:22

        But it's a real problem in our view of the world-
13. 52:05 – 1:00:12

    How Parts Unknown was built: selecting locations, researching, scouting, and filming in restaurants

    1. JRJoe Rogan52:05

       Um, when he would get the rough cut-

    2. MFMorgan Fallon52:08

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:08

       ... would it be the length of the actual show and then he would add narration to it? Did he have any say in the editing process?

    4. MFMorgan Fallon52:15

       Huge. I mean, uh, so, n- I think that's something important too about who he was, you know. Um, I, I mean, like everyone calls him a chef. He wasn't a chef. Like, he was a producer. (laughs) He was a television producer.

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:26

       Right.

    6. MFMorgan Fallon52:26

       You know. Um, he, he would pick the locations, he would pick the subject matter for the most part, you know. There were a couple like-

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:33

       How did you guys work it out? Like say if you were gonna go to Puerto Rico or something like that, how would you make, make the decisions? How would you decide where to go and why?

    8. MFMorgan Fallon52:41

       Okay. The... Well, I'll take you through the whole process as well.

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:43

       Okay. Yeah.

    10. MFMorgan Fallon52:44

        So, uh, so Tony would come up with a list of places that he was interested in going, and maybe we would throw a couple in, like I mentioned, the West Virginia show, you know. Um, he'd be like, "But this is my list," right? And, um, and then he'd write like a brief on each one, "I'm interested in X." You know, like, "I'm interested in Singapore. Um, it's Disneyland with the death penalty." Right? And you're like, "Okay, so there's like... There's kind of a basic operating thesis," right? We can kinda like go in and look at this place, um, from this perspective. Um, and some of them, uh, uh, some of them didn't... Uh, the Lagos episode, for example, you just feel like l- we, we haven't been to Nigeria, let's go to Nigeria. You know? And then, so we would start doing research on what that was, just big kind of, you know, 30,000 foot macro, you know, what is this environment like? What are the interesting things? What are the stories that have been told about this place? And how can we look at it from a different angle? So like the Nigeria one, we kinda focused in on, like I said, you know, um, grassroots capitalism, DIY entrepreneurship, you know, street level, um, you know, s- the street level kind of dynamics of the economy, you know. And that became like... Like we could see ways to kinda make a beautiful like human story out of those elements. So I'd end up putting down to him probably in like a two or three page thing, like, "Here are my ideas." You know. "Here's what I found based on what you are interested in. Here's some other things I found. This is the way we'd kinda like to go about it." And he'd either be like, "Yeah," or "No." You know, and from that point, um, we just get heavy into research, write a treatment, you know, um, and break that story into like six acts. Right? And then look for scenes to kind of fill and articulate that story. So it's scenes like-... you know, I have this great economist. I know we're going to need an economist at some point, but we got to put ... You know, economists are kind of boring by nature. So we got to put him somewhere more dynamic, where there's this really interesting computer market that has a lot of energy. So let's put the economist there. They can walk around. There's a great restaurant in the corner there. So, like, here are some elements we can put together." That's a scene in a act of the show. So you put all that stuff together in treatment form, send it to Tony. U- usually minimal notes from him, you know. Um, (smacks lips) and then, uh, and then we'd go out, scout, shoot the show, you know?

    11. JRJoe Rogan55:22

        How weird is it shooting in a restaurant with camera people standing over the table?

    12. MFMorgan Fallon55:26

        I think we got ... I think we got really good at not taking over the environment, you know. That's ... So I don't ... I, I, I don't know. I, I don't know how to answer that because-

    13. JRJoe Rogan55:35

        How ... But how do you do it? Like-

    14. MFMorgan Fallon55:36

        ... how do we do it?

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:37

        ... say if you and I are having a conversation at dinner and we're being filmed.

    16. MFMorgan Fallon55:40

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:41

        Is ... Would they be as close as Jamie is right there?

    18. MFMorgan Fallon55:43

        The cameras?

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:44

        Yeah.

    20. MFMorgan Fallon55:44

        Closer than that.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:45

        They're right on top of you?

    22. MFMorgan Fallon55:46

        Yeah. They're pretty close. But, you know-

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:48

        And they're standing?

    24. MFMorgan Fallon55:49

        Yeah. But we wouldn't use like ... There, there were, there were rules to that, right?

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:53

        Mm-hmm.

    26. MFMorgan Fallon55:53

        'Cause it ... Like, we're a documentary show. We can't just go in and just like completely take over some place.

    27. JRJoe Rogan55:58

        Of course. Right.

    28. MFMorgan Fallon55:59

        Or take over some village or scare the shit outta local people or ... You know what I mean? Like, we gotta go in with some deafness, you know? So we would go in early and we would light so that the characters, Tony aren't really seeing us screw around with lighting.

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:12

        Mm-hmm.

    30. MFMorgan Fallon56:12

        Stuff like that. That's all kind of in place. Um, put the cameras in there. No sound guy, no big booms.
14. 1:00:12 – 1:33:36

    After Tony: unfinished episodes, no replacement narration, and signs of burnout (smoking/less training)

    1. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:12

       Thanks, man. Yeah. And I'm ... You know, I'm actually still working on one right now, which is, uh, maybe the weirdest experience, you know?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:21

       Mm-hmm.

    3. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:21

       You were asking about process before, you know? After we'd shoot it, that's when Tony really came in, you know?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

       What do you do if he's not there for narration?

    5. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:29

       Well, that's the, that's the thing.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       Who narrates it?

    7. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:31

       You know? I mean, um, it's ... I'm not gonna replace Tony.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

       So no-

    9. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:35

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

        ... narration?

    11. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:35

        No.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

        Yeah.

    13. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:36

        No. I mean, we have our sidekicks, uh, talking to him. We have ...... his dialogue in the field-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

        Mm-hmm.

    15. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:44

        ... you know. But w- who's gonna step in and do that voice?

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

        No one.

    17. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:47

        And, and how offensive would it be if we did that?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

        It would have to be someone w- who is so close to him that it didn't, didn't freak everybody out. It'd have to be someone who was on the show 1,000 times and was just there with him always.

    19. MFMorgan Fallon1:00:59

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

        And that person doesn't really exist.

    21. MFMorgan Fallon1:01:02

        Doesn't, yeah. There's no v- you know, there's no voice there.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

        When you would give him a rough cut, um, say, if y- like I said, a show on Puerto Rico-

    23. MFMorgan Fallon1:01:10

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

        ... what have you.

    25. MFMorgan Fallon1:01:11

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

        So he would take that, he would watch it, and then he would start writing?

    27. MFMorgan Fallon1:01:14

        Exactly. So yeah, gettin' back to process, you'd like ... I'd send him an act, right, once it was in rough cut form and then you'd get his notes back. That was always kind of a terrifying moment too 'cause you're like, (laughs) "Dude, you've worked on this thing a lot."

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

        Right.

    29. MFMorgan Fallon1:01:28

        And you send it off to him and he can go one way or another, man.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

        Right.

Episode duration: 1:45:38