Joe Rogan Experience #1172 - Morgan Fallon

Joe Rogan 0:00 All right. Four, three, two, one. (claps) What's up, Mo?

Morgan Fallon 0:08 What's up, man? How you doing?

Joe Rogan 0:09 How are you, buddy? Good to see you, man.

Morgan Fallon 0:10 Good. It's good to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:11 Um, I'm glad we decided to get together and do this, you know, and, and talk and, um, you know, it's c- it's a crazy subject, right? I mean, uh, you and I have known each other for since 2012 when, uh, I did Meat Eater. You were there filming when I shot my first deer, which is a very important part of my life, man. And, um, then you went on to, uh, direct and produce Parts Unknown with our late friend, Anthony Bourdain. And, uh, we just thought it'd probably be a good thing to come in here and just talk, talk about him.

Morgan Fallon 0:44 Yeah, man. And, uh, and I'm really grateful for it, you know. It's actually, you know, a lot of people, um, have been saying to me like, "Oh, it must be really hard to talk about that. It must really..." It's, I actually find it kind of the opposite. Like I wanna talk about him and I wanna talk about who he was and what that experience was, you know, so, um, thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05 My pleasure, brother. Did you, did you know him before you guys started working together?

Morgan Fallon 1:10 No. No. I met Tony, uh, 10 years ago and I was called in, uh, he had a, a DP on his show who, at the last minute, canceled and couldn't go to Egypt, so, uh, I got a call like a week before, you know. He's like, "Do you wanna go to Egypt with Anthony Bourdain?" I was like, "Y- yeah, fuck yeah, absolutely." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:29 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:30 You know. Um, and, uh, and so I met him in Cairo, man. Like, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:34 Wow.

Morgan Fallon 1:34 ... it was kinda like perfect, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Holy shit. That's like Indiana Jones type of shit. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 1:38 (laughs) Yeah, yeah. Exactly, man.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Is that the episode when you guys ate a camel?

Morgan Fallon 1:42 No. No. We didn't eat a camel.

Joe Rogan 1:44 Oh, that was a different one?

Morgan Fallon 1:44 No. But, um, you know, uh, I met him there. You know, we started filming. We were on the streets of Cairo and like, you know, it's just like all of a sudden, I was thrown into these kitchens where it's like, "We're eating pigeon." You know, it's like, "Go and cover them cooking pigeon." And, you know, I had-

Joe Rogan 2:00 Right.

Morgan Fallon 2:01 ... I had seen the show like maybe once before, but I had n- I knew who he was and I knew what that adventure was.

Joe Rogan 2:07 Right.

Morgan Fallon 2:07 You know, and I was so amped for it. Um, and then there was like this seminal moment on that show where, uh, we go out and we, we go ripping across the desert with the Bedouin and go out and cook a goat, uh, in the ground, you know. Um, and so as we're driving out over the desert, we're like, "Well, we need to get, we need some shots from car to car," right? And I was like, "I'll get on the roof," you know. And, uh, and there's like this four, for some reason, there's a four-post bed tied to the roof of this, uh, Land Rover.

Joe Rogan 2:39 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 2:39 And so I get up there and kinda like l- you know, latch my arm around it, and these guys take off at, I, I swear, 80 miles an hour across the desert. I mean...

Joe Rogan 2:48 And you're on a bed?

Morgan Fallon 2:49 Absolutely. (laughs) Yeah. Absolutely no regard for the fact that like (laughs) I'm on the roof, you know, um, shooting. And, uh, and when we got there, we got to camp. I survived it. Um, I had this big black and blue where I was holding onto the four-post bed. And I, I go over and I show Tony, and, um, that was it, man. From that moment on, (laughs) he was, he was like, "I like this guy." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:16 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 3:16 And I started going out with him, you know. I started getting invited to do more shows.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Wow.

Morgan Fallon 3:20 So that was it, man.

Joe Rogan 3:22 How many years did you do it? How many years?

Morgan Fallon 3:23 10 years.

Joe Rogan 3:24 Wow.

Morgan Fallon 3:25 10 years, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:26 That's crazy. I didn't realize that Parts Unknown was even o- were, were you doing No Reservations first?

Morgan Fallon 3:31 Yeah. So that was a No Reservation show.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Oh.

Morgan Fallon 3:33 And then we went to Parts Unknown, uh, five years ago.

Joe Rogan 3:36 Wow. You f- so Parts Unknown's been o- on for five years or so?

Morgan Fallon 3:40 Yeah. Yeah. And that, uh, you know, that transition... No, No Reservation was great, uh, and it really laid the foundation for what we do, what Tony did. Um, I think it really built an audience and a following for him. Um, but-

Joe Rogan 3:54 That's where I found out about him.

Morgan Fallon 3:55 R- right. Exactly. It was a, hey, it was a great show.

Joe Rogan 3:57 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 3:57 You know. Um, but that, like that transition going onto CNN, going into Parts Unknown, that really, um, that really changed things. That really opened up a lot of locations and stuff that we didn't have access to before. It opened up, you know, kind of CNN's, um, logistics, uh, Rolodex and-

Joe Rogan 4:17 Mm.

Morgan Fallon 4:17 ... you know, things that we didn't have, uh, at the other network. You know, and, uh, and so that's, uh, you know, No Reservations was awesome. We did some incredible shows. Uh, Parts Unknown's were, got really fun.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Yeah. Uh, that was on another level. I remember watching the change. I was like, okay, this is more, more him, you know. The, everything from the opening music to the tone of it and the narration.

Morgan Fallon 4:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 4:40 For sure. And then, and, uh, you know, you gotta hand it to CNN too is like we, all of a sudden, we had these creative partners who were like w- willing to let him be him.

Joe Rogan 4:49 Mm. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 4:50 You know, like willing to let him do a show like the Tokyo show where we're like, you know, really climbing into, um, Japanese subcultures, rope bondage, tentacle porn.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 5:01 You know, all this stuff that-

Joe Rogan 5:02 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 5:03 ... most network executives (laughs) are probably-

Joe Rogan 5:05 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 5:06 ... a little bit leery of. You know, CNN-

Joe Rogan 5:07 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 5:07 ... was kinda like, you know, "Go for it, man. Be yourself, you know, and let's figure out what this is together," you know.

Joe Rogan 5:13 That's amazing. That, that, that really is amazing. And, but the, one of the things that really made that show was Tony's narration because the narration gave you a sense of the way his, his sort of passion and enthusiasm for the world and for various aspects of cooking and travel and food and culture. Like you got it through his own words, you know.

Morgan Fallon 5:33 Yeah. I think that's, um... I mean, uh, maybe in some ways, the most important aspect of the show. Uh, you know, it, I mean, he is after all a writer, right?

Joe Rogan 5:43 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 5:43 You know, and, um, and that is how he experienced the world. Um, but actually making the shows and let- you know, the, the-... technical part of actually making the shows, you know, w- w- we'd... Once you'd go through and kinda edit the show and n- none of that voiceover was in at the rough cut phase, and you send it out to him and get his writing back and record that VO... And I keep describing it as like that kind of Dr. Frankenstein lightning bolt to the temples kinda moment where, like, the monster rises.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 6:15 It would really just bring the show to life. So this kinda carcass that was laid out in rough cut form on the table all of a sudden just gasped and jumped up and, you know, it was really beautiful, like, to see that and to have... Uh, you know, as a director, as a producer, as a creative, you know, at any level, you know, to have that kind of power-

Joe Rogan 6:37 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 6:37 ... um, to have his voice and his writing and his introspection and thoughts and, you know, um, that would have... Like, powerful, you know, powerful force to work with.

Joe Rogan 6:48 Well, it was a brilliant design, the way the show was put together. That narration really did make it something special and different from all those other kinds of shows, because it... Just his articulate and insightful and poetic and artistic view of these things, that he had this infectious passion for things. He completely changed the way I thought about cooking. I'd always thought about cooking as, "Oh, this guy knows how to make delicious food. Oh, this place has good ribs." And then, when I saw his show, when I saw Parts Unknown, I went, "Oh, it's an art form. It's just an art form that you eat."

Morgan Fallon 7:25 Absolutely. This is-

Joe Rogan 7:25 Like an temporary art form.

Morgan Fallon 7:27 Yeah. And, and even beyond that, it's an art form that's in- that's taking and incorporating all of these greater kind of macro social elements of, you know, where you are, the history of where you are, you know, what people did for a living-

Joe Rogan 7:42 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 7:42 ... what people's ancestors did for a living, you know. It, um, it's rooted in so much more. And what I think, you know, you know, ultimately, it feels like we kinda joke around a lot and say like, "Yeah, it's a food show." It's not a food show, you know. But the reason that worked, I think, is because of what you're saying, and, you know, that food, um, food is an art form that incorporates all of these other aspects. And so it can be a jumping point off for exploration into anything you wanna talk about.

Joe Rogan 8:12 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 8:12 We talked about the history of a place, the politics of a place, you know, uh, the religion of a place, you know, all of these things that inform who people are. Well, that's all writ into the cuisine of a place or an area, you know.

Joe Rogan 8:26 Yeah. And, and he was into stuff that wasn't necessarily even like high, you know, high dollar items. He was into, like, street food.

Morgan Fallon 8:37 Definitely, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Yeah. It wasn't just the finest French, you know, bistros where these celebrated world famous chefs were cooking these bizarre small plate sort of masterpieces. No, he would love street tacos.

Morgan Fallon 8:51 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and again, I think that was kind of like a whole new kind of fresh take on looking at food, you know.

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 8:59 It's like it's easy to, you know, to look at these kind of high-end French preparations, these highly talented, you know, highly trained French chefs, um, and there's, there's tremendous beauty in that-

Joe Rogan 9:12 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 9:12 ... and all of those other things we talked about. But to look at the woman on the corner that's (laughs) , you know, that's making, uh, you know, the best, you know, lengua tacos, like-

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 9:24 ... that was revolutionary. And then the realization that all of that, all of that greatness, all of that nuance, all of that flavor, you know, um, was contained right within there. That was an access point to it as well. It's just an access point that everyone can afford-

Joe Rogan 9:41 Right.

Morgan Fallon 9:41 ... that everyone can go in. And, uh, you know, I mean, right place at the right time. I think that people, like, it seems like the culture at large was ready for that, ready for that, like, experience in food and ready to kind of chase that. 'Cause now, I mean, that's, that's all anyone wants now, you know.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Well, I think it's because of him. I really do. I really do 'cause, I mean, I'm sure that he changed the way I look at things-

Morgan Fallon 10:05 For sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:05 ... in terms of food. And I think he had that effect on many people. I mean, you think about how many years was Parts Un- Unknown for? Five, and then No Reservations for nine?

Morgan Fallon 10:15 No Reservations, yeah, for about ten, and then there was Cook's Tour before that.

Joe Rogan 10:19 Right. So-

Morgan Fallon 10:20 The original incarnation.

Joe Rogan 10:21 All told, a decade and a half of his-

Morgan Fallon 10:24 Seven to eight, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:25 ... influence on people's food choices and, and just appreciation for food. I mean, I know personally, I've had some great meals in restaurants, but some of my favorite meals have been, like, stepping outside of a bar, you know. It's 1:30, you got a little buzz on and some dude's got a taco truck and you're like, "Oh, baby, what do you got over there, my friend?"

Morgan Fallon 10:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:43 Or in New York, you know, it's late at night and there's a falafel cart and some guy's got a, an incredible kebabs, like, oh. Something about street food, man.

Morgan Fallon 10:51 Absolutely, man. And, um, yeah, I kinda keep, like, a, like, a loose running list of my favorite meals, you know. And, um, and some of them are on the show and some of them are not on the show. And, uh, I'd say, you know, most of them are that, you know. Most-

Joe Rogan 11:07 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 11:07 ... of them are accidentally stumbling into some place where someone's doing something completely awesome that isn't, you know, some massive 26-course tasting menu, you know.

Joe Rogan 11:17 Right.

Morgan Fallon 11:18 Um, and I think it's also about, you know, it's about place, you know.

Joe Rogan 11:23 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 11:24 It's about where you are, the context of where you're eating, what it smells like, what it sounds like, what it looks like, you know, um, who you're with, you know.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 11:34 And, uh, and so, you know, that's kinda, I think, another reason the show kinda worked is we had an opportunity to architic- articulate all of those, all of those elements, you know.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 11:45 We were able to choose an incredibly interesting guest to sit down with at a really interesting restaurant with, you know, people cooking who have a really interesting backstory in a beautiful place. And, uh, and then use the power of kind of the magic of TV to, you know, to polish it up and present this version of travel and food in the world that-

Joe Rogan 12:07 Yeah. And really everywhere too. I mean, you guys covered Asia, you covered Europe, you covered some weird places in the South where people were cooking pigs in their backyard.

Morgan Fallon 12:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:18 I mean, it was just ... It, it gave people, uh, an understanding of the preparation of food and a view to chefs and this view of chefs as artists. I mean, these chefs look like tattoo artists. They look like, you know, guys who are painters or something, or women who are sculptors. I mean, they're, they're real similar in the way they, they appear to what we consider artists.

Morgan Fallon 12:40 Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I think too, I mean, I, you know, what I kinda love about, like ... I was, you know, at this point spent a good amount of time in kitchens-

Joe Rogan 12:50 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 12:50 ... and a good amount of time around kitchen staff is, there's kind of two elements coming together. There's, there's the, the artistic element that you're talking about, right? But there's also this very, you know, very earnest working class kind of element to the way a kitchen works, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:07 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 13:07 This is tough, hard, sweaty work, you know. Um, it's a rough environment, you know. And I, and I think that's kind of part of what makes it so appealing too, is he kind of pulled back the curtain on, on that, you know, and to say like, "These guys are ..." You know, these guys are not these inaccessible icons.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 13:29 The Paul Bocuse of the world, you know. They are ... Um, as much as Paul Bocuse is awesome. You know, they are these, uh, kind of rough and tumble, you know, guys that are, uh, back there making something really awesome, you know.

Joe Rogan 13:43 Tony also had this sort of punk rock sensibility to it all too. You know, I mean, that was part of the thing about him that people found appealing is that they had seen cooking shows before, but they never saw cooking shows where the host gets fucked up, you know.

Morgan Fallon 13:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:58 Like, dude, I was ... First time I partied with him, I'm like, "This guy goes so hard." (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 14:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:03 That was amazing.

Morgan Fallon 14:04 Yeah, tell me about it, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:05 It was amazing. I was like, "I can't believe he can do this all the time."

Morgan Fallon 14:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:08 Like, I think one of the first times we ever got ... Hung out together was in, um, Montreal. We were there for, uh, UFC fights and we went out afterwards and got ... Uh, we had some steaks and it was just amazing walking into this restaurant and people freaking out. One guy actually had a copy of Ki- Kitchen Confidential in the actual kitchen itself and had Tony sign it. It was pretty fucking badass.

Morgan Fallon 14:30 Where, where'd you go? Do you remember?

Joe Rogan 14:31 I do not remember.

Morgan Fallon 14:31 Was it Joe Beef?

Joe Rogan 14:33 No, it wasn't, but he turned me onto Joe Beef.

Morgan Fallon 14:34 (laughs) Whoo. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:34 And I've eaten there several times since then.

Morgan Fallon 14:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:37 Those guys are coming on the podcast too.

Morgan Fallon 14:38 I love those guys. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Fred and Dave.

Morgan Fallon 14:40 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 14:40 Yeah. No, they're fucking amazing. That restaurant is one of my favorite restaurants on the planet.

Morgan Fallon 14:44 No doubt, man.

Joe Rogan 14:44 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 14:44 But they'll, they'll hurt you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:46 Yeah, they- they c- they keep it coming.

Morgan Fallon 14:48 Yeah, for sure. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:49 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 14:50 They'll give you an inch thick slab of foie gras, you know.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, their show, um, one of the ones that I really loved was the one where they did, um, ice fishing. They were on-

Morgan Fallon 15:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:01 ... the water and they had this ice fishing shack, but inside the ice fishing shack, they had fine silverware and fine china and they had bottles of really excellent wine and they were cooking on a wood stove. They had a wood stove and they were cooking foie gras like right there on the stove. And then they were laying out what they think makes you a good dinner companion. And, you know, Dave was like, "I shut my phone off. I turn it off. I put it away." And he goes, "I don't check it." I don't ... He goes, "I don't put my elbows on the table." You know, and he's like, "And I come prepared with stories." And Tony's like, "You prepare? You prepare stories?" (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 15:39 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:39 He goes, "I have, I have stories to tell."

Morgan Fallon 15:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:41 "I come prepared." Like, to him it's like, not really a performance, but it's an agreement that you're gonna, you're gonna go there and you're gonna share this enthusiasm for this experience together. And you're gonna try to enhance it with your own anecdotes and personality and your own appreciation for the food and the wine and then afterwards they're smoking Cuban cigars. It's like the whole thing is ... It made you want to go eat at a really good place.

Morgan Fallon 16:07 Yeah. Or in a, you know, in a-

Joe Rogan 16:09 A shack.

Morgan Fallon 16:10 ... in a shack.

Joe Rogan 16:10 On a-

Morgan Fallon 16:10 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:11 ... frozen lake. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 16:11 With, with people who understand that, that there's an elegance to all of these things.

Joe Rogan 16:16 Yes. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 16:16 You know? That you can create an environment that, that has an elegance. I mean, that's ... You know, I'd say that's like a hallmark of a lot of the chefs that I've met through the show, is like, you will see that, you know, no matter how big they get, no matter how successful, there is an inherent kind of desire to please on multiple levels.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 16:36 You know? You'll have like ... I remember we were in, uh, Daniel Boulud's house in France, like at his parents' house, right? And so here's Daniel Boulud, like the mega chef, you know. Um, but like, running around to all of the crew members, like, "Do you have something to eat? Are you good? Do you want another glass of wine? Do you wanna like ..." You know? (laughs) And it just inherent to his nature.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 16:58 It's exactly what you're talking about. This idea that, you know, they have this just ... Ongoing desire to please their guests.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 17:09 To entertain, to, you know, make sure that everyone's taken care of, you know.

Joe Rogan 17:13 They're curators of an experience.

Morgan Fallon 17:14 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so to be able to, you know, run around the world for 10 years and explore that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:22 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 17:23 It was nice, man.

Joe Rogan 17:24 God-

Morgan Fallon 17:24 You know?

Joe Rogan 17:24 ... man, I can only imagine.

Morgan Fallon 17:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:26 I could only ima- ... How many shows did you guys film together?

Morgan Fallon 17:30 I don't ... You know, I'm s- ... I don't know, 57 or 60, something like that. Somewhere in that area.

Joe Rogan 17:35 Wow.

Morgan Fallon 17:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:36 Wow.

Morgan Fallon 17:36 So, I mean, and listen, there are people, uh ... You know, at 10 years on the show, I was on the show for a long time, there's people a lot longer. There's people who did the whole 17 years. People have done well over 100 episodes, you know. No one left that show. You don't leave that show if you get a spot on it.

Joe Rogan 17:52 Were you with him when, when it ended?

Morgan Fallon 17:56 No. Uh, no. I was with him, um, about a week and a half before. Uh, so, no, I had, uh, good friends that were there.

Joe Rogan 18:06 I was in, um, Chicago.... and, uh, I woke up and I checked my phone.

Morgan Fallon 18:12 Oh.

Joe Rogan 18:13 And I got a text from my friend Maynard, uh, Maynard Keenan (clears throat) (exhales) from Tool. And, um, Maynard is a jujitsu brown belt and really loves jujitsu. And he, and he, um, texted me and he said, "So much for the, uh, Maynard versus Anthony Bourdain celebrity jujitsu match." And that's the whole text. And, um, you know, just sunk, sunk a pit in my stomach. And I just wa- I just picked up my phone and went into Google, and I looked it up, (exhales) and I saw it, I'm just like, "Oh, fuck." (exhales) I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And I was ... started crying. (exhales) I think, I think I called my wife. I think I called Maynard. Or I texted him, I called my wife, (sniffs) called a few friends. You know, just like, you know, just couldn't believe ... You know, when someone's just not there anymore. I didn't get to see him a lot, but I was just a- just appreciated the fuck out of that dude. You know? Like, I don't wanna do anybody's TV show, but when I got a call from him, I was like, "Fuck yeah."

Morgan Fallon 19:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:41 What are we gonna do? We're gonna shoot pheasants and, and hunt and camp and we're gonna cook by the campfire? Fuck, I'm in, dude.

Morgan Fallon 19:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:48 You know? I'm in. I just really, uh, appreciated him as a, a genuine, unique person. Like he's a genuine rare person. And, uh, you know, that's, that's what I got out of being ... (exhales) Being able to spend some time with him and being able to talk to him and pick his brain and he did my podcast once, we always planned on doing it again, we sh- we never got around to it 'cause we're both have ridiculous schedules. But just my- I would think about things differently because of him. Like, uh, my- I, I wa- I wi- sometimes, like, hold things to his standards and he ch- like, legitimately, his appreciation for things and his enthusiasm for things changed the way I look at a lot of, a lot of aspects of food and, and culture and, and, and even travel. You know?

Morgan Fallon 20:44 (sniffs) Yeah. I mean, um, I'm sorry, man. And I, you know.

Joe Rogan 20:50 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 20:50 And I know he thought very highly of you and that was ... That experience in Montana was fantastic, man.

Joe Rogan 20:55 So fun.

Morgan Fallon 20:56 Um, you know, I-

Joe Rogan 20:59 (sniffs)

Morgan Fallon 21:01 It's been, I, it's been a rough three months and it's still hard for me to really contextualize it and, and put it together. It feels like, you know, upside down world. Like, there's no ... And he was such a, I mean, he was a friend and a collaborator and a, you know, but also just such an icon to me. You know?

Joe Rogan 21:21 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 21:21 And, um, and, uh, that it's almost like, you know, it's almost like the sun disappears. You know?

Joe Rogan 21:29 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 21:29 It's something that is so just inherently-

Joe Rogan 21:32 Part of life.

Morgan Fallon 21:33 ... there and, and dependable and, you know. (laughs) Um, so, yeah. I mean, it's been-

Joe Rogan 21:41 (sniffs)

Morgan Fallon 21:42 I- it's hard to describe how, how, um, profound that's been. Um-

Joe Rogan 21:48 I remember when he got into jujitsu I got psyched 'cause I'm like, "We got more to talk about now."

Morgan Fallon 21:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:53 I could, I could actually, I could actually show him some shit. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 21:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:57 You know?

Morgan Fallon 21:58 See-

Joe Rogan 21:58 And he was always e- like, asking about things.

Morgan Fallon 22:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:00 You know? He's really into things.

Morgan Fallon 22:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:02 Remember when we were in Montana, we were rolling around on the dirt.

Morgan Fallon 22:04 I know, right? I remember.

Joe Rogan 22:05 I was showing him stuff, him and Josh.

Morgan Fallon 22:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:06 I was like, "Like, when you're in here, like, here's what you can do. You can get-" And he's like-

Morgan Fallon 22:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:10 ... "Oh, yeah."

Morgan Fallon 22:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:11 He's like ... He was so, uh, wide-eyed, you know. I think it was before he even got his blue belt or maybe it was, like, a round blue belt. So he was super, super jacked about it and he was doing it every day. I remember when we were, we were filming, we were outside of Billings. Is that where we were? Where were we?

Morgan Fallon 22:27 Yeah. Well, where The Hunt was.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 22:29 The, The Hunt, we were in, like, uh, up in Central Montana, you know.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Right.

Morgan Fallon 22:33 So, um, we kind of started in Billings, but we headed up towards Central Montana.

Joe Rogan 22:37 He was training so often, and even on the road, that he traveled to, uh, a club. There was just a jujitsu club in Bozeman.

Morgan Fallon 22:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:45 And he found some guys and he was rolling with these guys in Bozeman.

Morgan Fallon 22:47 Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Joe Rogan 22:48 I was like, "Damn, you're doing it every day?"

Morgan Fallon 22:50 Well, that was a-

Joe Rogan 22:50 He's like, "Every day."

Morgan Fallon 22:51 For a long time on the show, that was a mandate. We find the local, you know, the local clubs-

Joe Rogan 22:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 22:56 ... and make sure that he had a place to roll.

Joe Rogan 22:57 He texted me from some European block country, said he was shitting bone ma- bone chips 'cause, uh-

Morgan Fallon 23:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:03 ... he worked out with some old school Carlson Gracie guys that-

Morgan Fallon 23:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:06 ... they don't believe in rolling light and it's all top game and smashing you.

Morgan Fallon 23:10 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:10 And he said, "I'm shitting bone chips." But I just, I admired that a guy could be 58 years old-

Morgan Fallon 23:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:16 ... and decide, "I'm going to learn jujitsu and I'm going to be obsessed with it." And then he became addicted to it, which, you know, jujitsu is a very beneficial thing to be addicted to, but it is absolutely an addiction. I've, I've come back from injuries where I, I definitely shouldn't have been training yet and I just wrap my arm up and just fucking get in there. People get super, super addicted to it and he got addicted to it, just like he's been addicted to many things. He ju- he jumped right into the juju- jujitsu experience.

Morgan Fallon 23:43 Yeah, man. Um, but I'm glad he did. It was, I mean, it was clearly, like, really good for him-

Joe Rogan 23:50 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 23:50 ... to us. I mean, I know very little about jujitsu. I know what I know from Tony, you know? He's like-

Joe Rogan 23:56 He got so slim.

Morgan Fallon 23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:58 He lost all that weight. All of a sudden he had a six pack.

Morgan Fallon 24:00 Stops- stopped smoking. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:00 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 24:01 You know? Those were, those were big things, man. And, uh, and he looked great and he, you know, he-

Joe Rogan 24:07 Got off statins.

Morgan Fallon 24:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:08 He's no longer on any sort of medication.

Morgan Fallon 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 He, he lost all that weight.

Morgan Fallon 24:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:14 ... cut all the carbs out.

Morgan Fallon 24:15 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:15 He was just eating like, you know-

Morgan Fallon 24:16 Yeah, just protein. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:17 Crazy, man.

Morgan Fallon 24:19 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:19 He looked so good.

Morgan Fallon 24:20 He did look good. Um, he did look good. And also, just, I, you know, the whole thing was kind of indicative of the way he wa- I mean, he, he did things so passionately.

Joe Rogan 24:30 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 24:30 You know, whether it was travel, the world, soaking up all these experiences, or jujitsu, or whatever. If he was into something, if something caught his attention, he was just so aggressive about knowledge.

Joe Rogan 24:43 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 24:43 Learning what he could, pulling everything out of it that, that he could, you know.

Joe Rogan 24:48 It's just crazy to see someone do something that's that physically demanding-

Morgan Fallon 24:51 Yeah, no kidding.

Joe Rogan 24:52 ... at 58, with no background in athletics at all.

Morgan Fallon 24:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:56 Like, you could see when he was like ... even when he was doing things, like when he went to Kurt Osiander's place-

Morgan Fallon 25:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:00 ... and was rolling around-

Morgan Fallon 25:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:01 ... like, he doesn't have a background in that, but he's just pushing himself to it.

Morgan Fallon 25:05 Yeah. Yeah, and again, I think that was true of everything.

Joe Rogan 25:08 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 25:08 You know? I mean, if he, uh ... If it was something that was interesting to him, he just went.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 25:13 You know?

Joe Rogan 25:14 He loved it, man. It was crazy. And I, I said, uh, you know, I remember texting him, going like, "How deep you getting into it?" He goes, "Real fucking deep."

Morgan Fallon 25:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:22 It was... And he goes, but he goes, uh, he goes, "I'm getting tapped out every day, but," he goes, "I'm giving guys half my age a real struggle." And he goes, uh, "And I'm loving it."

Morgan Fallon 25:31 Yeah, and, uh, he talked about that a lot. I mean, I, I think he talked about like the f- the failure as much as anything else.

Joe Rogan 25:37 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 25:37 And he loved that, man.

Joe Rogan 25:38 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 25:39 Going in and, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:40 Getting smashed.

Morgan Fallon 25:42 Yeah, but, you know, again, to his credit, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:45 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 25:45 We'd, we'd show up in these places, you know, Bozeman, Montana, man, or, or Butte, you know? I mean, Jesus, I think he rolled in Butte, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:53 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 25:53 Butte's a hard-hitting town, man. And l- listen, I love Butte.

Joe Rogan 25:56 I love Butte too, but-

Morgan Fallon 25:56 Much respect to anyone from Butte, but man, that's a hard-hitting town, you know?

Joe Rogan 26:01 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 26:01 He'd roll into these-

Joe Rogan 26:02 Real cowboys.

Morgan Fallon 26:03 ... places, yeah, you know? And, uh, and get the shit kicked out of him and show up on set all, you know, sore and bruised and, "Oh, man. Oh, ugh." You know?

Joe Rogan 26:13 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 26:13 And then just jump into that, you know?

Joe Rogan 26:15 It's just different for a guy who's 58. I mean, a gu- a guy who does it at 20, I admire anybody who does jujitsu 'cause it's a real humbling, ego-dissolving experience in a lot of ways-

Morgan Fallon 26:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 ... 'cause you ... It makes you realize, like all your illusions of how well you can defend yourself, they go out the window when someone just chokes you easily. And you're like, "Oh, great, I'm just a bitch wanted around-

Morgan Fallon 26:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:34 ... running around this life thinking I'm a man." But the fact that he did it at 58 just showed what kind of a unusual dude he was.

Morgan Fallon 26:42 Yeah, but what you just talked about there, I mean, what you're talking about, with like the ego diminishing aspect of it, again, I think that that was something that he took great pleasure in.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 26:50 And I think that, you know, if you look at the way he went through the world, um, one of the things that, you know, I appreciated right off the bat, and one of the things that kept me around as long as I stayed (laughs) around, you know, um, was the fact that it t- you know, for Tony, I, I think that he was constantly trying to dismantle that persona, you know? To say like, "I'm, I'm not the focal point of this scene."

Joe Rogan 27:17 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 27:18 "Or what I'm, the ... What we're interested in here, what I'm interested in talking about is out there, that's-"

Joe Rogan 27:23 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 27:23 "... the camera's pointed away from me." You know?

Joe Rogan 27:26 Right.

Morgan Fallon 27:26 He was kind of a clearing house for all that information, and he was the root of the show, and it was his journey, but, you know, ultimately, you know, what was refreshing is he wasn't like working with some celebrity or host that was completely consumed by their own ego-

Joe Rogan 27:42 Right, right.

Morgan Fallon 27:44 ... and their own, you know, brand and, and how they were presented to the world.

Joe Rogan 27:47 That's so disgusting, right?

Morgan Fallon 27:48 Yeah, dude, but it's, it's everywhere, man.

Joe Rogan 27:50 It's everywhere.

Morgan Fallon 27:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:51 He was very self-deprecating. And, and he had reverence for real artists and real masters, and that came-

Morgan Fallon 27:57 Total reverence.

Joe Rogan 27:58 Yeah, it came across. It came across.

Morgan Fallon 28:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:01 I texted him about some guy. I, there was a photo of, uh, a restaurant. And, uh, I'm sure it's still on my phone. Some dude who's like a, a real famous guy, who's like some big time chef character. And I was eating in this restaurant, and so I'm like, "Who the fuck is this guy? This seems like it's a big deal." And so, uh, I, uh, I texted him the photo of this cat right here.

Morgan Fallon 28:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:26 Do you who that, uh, that guy is? What was that guy's name? So I said, "Who is that guy?" He says, "Marco Pierre White, made Ramsay cry like a bitch, all-time original rock star chef, genius, madman."

Morgan Fallon 28:36 The original punk.

Joe Rogan 28:37 But that kind of text, like that's-

Morgan Fallon 28:39 That's-

Joe Rogan 28:39 ... that's a Tony Bourdain text.

Morgan Fallon 28:42 (laughs) Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 28:42 Like, that's, that's what ... That, that text shows-

Morgan Fallon 28:45 Oh, yeah, dude.

Joe Rogan 28:46 ... that reverence for the masters.

Morgan Fallon 28:48 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:49 You know? I mean, even the, the way he phrases it, you know? "Made him cry like a bitch, all-time original rock star chef, genius, madman."

Morgan Fallon 28:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:58 You know, and, um, and that, and that's the way it ... I mean, he, what was, what worked about that is he had a, like an instant ability to sniff through the bullshit, you know? So, uh, you know, there ... Listen, there's all kinds of famous people, celebrities and, you know, well accomplished people that he met that he didn't feel that way about.

Morgan Fallon 29:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:17 You know? He would cut through that shit instantly. But if you were on his radar in that way, you know, he ... It was like total commitment to what you do and supporting- Yeah, what you do. You were in or you're out.

Morgan Fallon 29:29 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Like the Anthony Bourdain club.

Morgan Fallon 29:30 Exactly. If ... Dude, you wanna be in, man.

Joe Rogan 29:33 I know, man.

Morgan Fallon 29:33 That, that list of people is like ...

Joe Rogan 29:35 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 29:36 That's a cool list to be on.

Joe Rogan 29:37 Yeah. Well, I just remember hanging out with him. You know? Like I just ... It was one of those gu- ... He was one of the ones that I met that I was like pretty starstruck, like right away.

Morgan Fallon 29:45 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:46 I, I said something really stupid, like, "My wife says you're my boyfriend."

Morgan Fallon 29:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:49 (laughs) It's so fucking ... 'Cause I watch his show all the time.

Morgan Fallon 29:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:52 She would just joke around, "Oh, you watch your boyfriend on TV?"

Morgan Fallon 29:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:55 I'm like, "He's great. This guy's great. Stop."

Morgan Fallon 29:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:57 "Leave him alone." But, um, like, uh, when we were in Montana, that's when I real- ... Well, I always knew how hard he went. But when I was blasted out of my mind, and he was like, "Where's that bottle? Where, where's those joints?" And I was like, "Jesus, man."

Morgan Fallon 30:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:11 You, like, I can't even h- I'm hanging onto the earth here. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 30:14 Yeah, well, that was a late night, man.

Joe Rogan 30:16 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 30:17 That was ... That one, I mean, you know, listen, like in all fairness, not every night was quite like that.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 30:22 You know? But that ... We had a lot of fun that night, for sure.

Joe Rogan 30:24 It was real fun.

Morgan Fallon 30:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:25 And it, and it really ...... an interesting thoughtful dialogue around the campfire with-

Morgan Fallon 30:29 Super, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:30 ... Lann Towne from, uh, Backwoods Country Hunters and Anglers-

Morgan Fallon 30:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:33 ... and all these, the other guys that were with us, right? You know, these guys who, uh, it was good to get a different perspective on what going out and getting your own wild food is like.

Morgan Fallon 30:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:44 You know, and then having him cook it there. And it was delicious.

Morgan Fallon 30:47 Yeah, it was awesome. And, but not ... But also being able to put those ideas on, like, a major network on primetime.

Joe Rogan 30:52 I know, right?

Morgan Fallon 30:52 It's pretty, pretty rare, man, (laughs) you know.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Yeah, kudos to CNN for having the cojones to put together that kind of a show and have it on-

Morgan Fallon 31:01 Big time.

Joe Rogan 31:01 ... you know?

Morgan Fallon 31:01 Yeah. Big time, man. Uh, again, I ... What can I say? These is the best creative partners you could ask for in terms of that, you know.

Joe Rogan 31:08 You really enjoyed it that much.

Morgan Fallon 31:08 They, they took big risks.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 31:10 Yeah. What's not to ... That was the dream job. If you do what I do, you know, you are interested in making documentary television, you know, um, that's it, man. That's the-

Joe Rogan 31:21 How did it wind up at CNN?

Morgan Fallon 31:23 ... y- that's the show.

Joe Rogan 31:23 Were there some other options? 'Cause I know he had a giant problem with the Travel Channel because I know he had told me that they, they fucked him over and did some Cadillac ad and-

Morgan Fallon 31:31 Yeah, yeah. I know he was really pissed about the Cadillac ad.

Joe Rogan 31:34 What, what, what, what was that about?

Morgan Fallon 31:36 I don't re- ... Uh, you know, honestly, I don't really know a lot of the details of the whole story.

Joe Rogan 31:40 Right.

Morgan Fallon 31:40 I don't know what other deals were on the table besides CNN, but it's safe to say that the, I think, the relationship with Travel Channel was toxic before that, you know? I mean, again-

Joe Rogan 31:49 Well, Travel Channel is a religious-owned place, at least was. I don't know if still is. I think the original people that owned it... Because my friend Bert Kreischer has a show over there or had a show over there, a couple shows, Bert the Conqueror and what was his other show? Hurt Bert. Yeah, it was a ... She's this crazy asshole.

Morgan Fallon 32:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:06 But, uh, you know, Bert had issues with that too. Like-

Morgan Fallon 32:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:09 ... where he would be on the show, if we'd all be hanging out together, if he wanted to smoke pot, he had to make sure that Jamie turned the camera away from him-

Morgan Fallon 32:15 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:15 ... 'cause they couldn't see him smoke pot.

Morgan Fallon 32:16 Oh, no. We couldn't ... Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, but I ... And listen, I don't have any, like, inside information, so this is purely, like, my outside perspective. I don't do the deals and I don't-

Joe Rogan 32:25 Right.

Morgan Fallon 32:25 ... you know, deal in that stuff. I make the shows. You know? But, uh, you know, I saw a network that was more interested in making, like, you know, the shows about sandcastles, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:35 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 32:35 And, uh, and ghosts, you know, than, than-

Joe Rogan 32:38 That's right. They had a bunch of ghost shows.

Morgan Fallon 32:39 A lot of ghost shows.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Yeah. But ghost shows-

Morgan Fallon 32:41 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:42 ... are fucking popular.

Morgan Fallon 32:43 (laughs) Yeah, they're really popular, man. I mean-

Joe Rogan 32:44 So stupid.

Morgan Fallon 32:45 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:45 They are the dumbest fucking shows on television and there's like a hundred of them. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 32:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:50 But the thing is, if you're watching, everybody's scared of ghosts. So if you're watching and there's some people and they're in the basement and they have night vision on and they pretend they see something, you're like, "What are they seeing? Is there a fucking real ghost?" Cuts to commercial and then all of a sudden you're hooked and you watch the entire commercial.

Morgan Fallon 33:05 It's a hook, man. It's a hook after hook after hook. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:08 It is the craziest, weirdest thing. It's one of the weirder things on television-

Morgan Fallon 33:13 I just can't imagine having to shoot those shows. God.

Joe Rogan 33:16 Oh, could you imagine trying to make them interesting like you?

Morgan Fallon 33:19 Well, st- stumbling around some fucking old house, like, with night vision, you know, trying to, you know-

Joe Rogan 33:24 Is that a fear now? I mean, look, you're go- ... You went from Meat Eater, which is an amazing show, and Parts Unknown and No Reservations and these ... So you got these three amazing shows and they put you on a ghost show.

Morgan Fallon 33:40 No, that's not a fear of mine.

Joe Rogan 33:41 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 33:42 Listen, that might be a nightmare. That might be like something I dream about and wake up and am-

Joe Rogan 33:46 That would be to be a real ghost.

Morgan Fallon 33:47 ... just sweating through my sheets-

Joe Rogan 33:48 Ah.

Morgan Fallon 33:48 ... you know? But ... No, man, I'm, I ... You know, listen, I still work for Zero Point Zero, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:54 Hi, Morgan, Morgan Fallon?

Morgan Fallon 33:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:55 It's Mike from Finding Bigfoot. Listen-

Morgan Fallon 33:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:58 I don't know if you ... We're coming back for season 1,000.

Morgan Fallon 34:00 Yeah, exactly, right?

Joe Rogan 34:01 And, uh, we, we're gonna find him this year.

Morgan Fallon 34:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:04 Please, please come aboard. We love what you did with Tony Bourdain and we think you could do that with Bobo.

Morgan Fallon 34:09 You know what? Here's the thing, they don't. They don't want that.

Joe Rogan 34:12 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 34:12 They don't want, they don't want cinematography and art, you know. They want the ... Listen, man, they want, uh, some kid producer, director-

Joe Rogan 34:19 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 34:20 ... /cinematographer that they can ... You know? They don't want, they don't want what we do.

Joe Rogan 34:24 They want fake Bigfoot noises?

Morgan Fallon 34:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:25 (moans) Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 34:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:28 I don't-

Morgan Fallon 34:28 You know? And I ... And I'm still ... Like I said, I'm still with Zero Point Zero, Tony's long term, you know, long time production company. We do awesome work, you know, a ton of awesome stuff lined up. You know, we'll be okay, man. But-

Joe Rogan 34:40 Are you gonna do more stuff with, um, Steve at Meat Eater?

Morgan Fallon 34:43 I'll, I'll go out with Steve anytime he calls. I just need a little more advance warning these days.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Right.

Morgan Fallon 34:48 I think they called me last week to see if I wanted to do an elk hunt.

Joe Rogan 34:51 Now, if you do that, would you try to get in shape first? Like, like heavy duty?

Morgan Fallon 34:55 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 34:56 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 34:56 'Cause the last time I went out was when I got my ass kicked.

Joe Rogan 34:58 That's fucking rough.

Morgan Fallon 34:59 Are you kidding, man? Dude, he's got y- he has ... I mean, talk about a guy with, like ... You know, he has no empathy whatsoever for, um, for the people he's with (laughs) who maybe can't keep up with him-

Joe Rogan 35:12 No.

Morgan Fallon 35:12 ... man, when you're in the f- ... It's like if you can't make that hike, you're just-

Joe Rogan 35:15 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 35:15 ... not making that hike, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:16 Yeah. And, you know, he weighs 110 pounds and he can walk for days.

Morgan Fallon 35:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:21 Yeah. And he's been doing this since he was a baby.

Morgan Fallon 35:23 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:25 Yeah. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 35:26 No, man. I went ... The last time I went out with him was, uh, I guess two years ago, I went up to Alaska, um, and did the black tail hunt, but we actually had nice weather, which was kind of unbelievable 'cause I know you've been up there when it's like, you know, 10 days of rain coming in sideways.

Joe Rogan 35:40 It was rough. Yeah, we had to leave-

Morgan Fallon 35:41 You know?

Joe Rogan 35:41 ... early last time I was there because a storm was coming and we had to make a decision.

Morgan Fallon 35:44 But there's a storm coming every time we go up there.

Joe Rogan 35:46 But we weren't gonna be able to get out. There was a possibility-

Morgan Fallon 35:48 Right, exactly.

Joe Rogan 35:49 But part of me was like, even though we're rain soaked, I wanna hunt the last six hours.

Morgan Fallon 35:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Because if I stay the last day, never know. That might be the ... I mean, that's so many times. That's, that's when you hook up with an animal.

Morgan Fallon 36:03 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:04 I mean, in my experience up there it's-

Joe Rogan 36:06 Hook up with an animal sounds like the wrong thing to say. Like, really, really wrong.

Morgan Fallon 36:09 (laughs) You can hook up with an animal and catch can.

Joe Rogan 36:11 Connect with an animal. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:12 Um-... no, man, but you know, like, it was... That's exactly the way it was. You go up there and you'd be in, you know, six days of rain, but all of a sudden, you know, the fog had cleared and there's some, you know-

Joe Rogan 36:25 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:25 ... black tails standing right there-

Joe Rogan 36:27 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:27 ... looking at you, you know.

Joe Rogan 36:28 No, a lot of bear-

Morgan Fallon 36:29 Um-

Joe Rogan 36:29 ... up there too.

Morgan Fallon 36:29 Yeah, tons of bear. No, but he... You know, I got my ass whooped last time I went up there. First time I went up there I was still in shape, you know, when I was younger-

Joe Rogan 36:37 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:37 ... and I did pretty well.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Well, you were doing it all the time. You have to do it-

Morgan Fallon 36:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:40 ... all the time.

Morgan Fallon 36:40 You have to do it all the time.

Joe Rogan 36:41 That, the hiking thing is some- I mean, you're, you're basically building up this endurance in your legs that you only get from hiking.

Morgan Fallon 36:47 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 36:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Hiking endurance is no joke. You th- It seems like it's a joke, because if you hike for, like, five feet it seems like nothing. You climb a small hill you're like, "I could do this all day." You think you could do it all day. You do that for 20 minutes, you'd be start heaving, you'd be drenched in sweat, you'd want to take your jacket off, and then you realize, like, "Oh my God, I have to do this for eight more hours?"

Morgan Fallon 37:07 Eight more days.

Joe Rogan 37:08 Fuck, yeah.

Morgan Fallon 37:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:08 And then in the morning-

Morgan Fallon 37:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:09 ... you got... And-

Morgan Fallon 37:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:10 And if your immune system is at all taxed it's going to crash hard, you might get sick.

Morgan Fallon 37:14 Yeah, man. Um, no, you could... Like you said, you can't train for it. You can't train for that kind of back country stuff. You can go out-

Joe Rogan 37:20 Right.

Morgan Fallon 37:20 ... and, you know, run up and down the StairMaster or whatever, but-

Joe Rogan 37:23 That doesn't really do it.

Morgan Fallon 37:24 ... it doesn't train all, like those little muscles that you use to constantly-

Joe Rogan 37:27 Right.

Morgan Fallon 37:27 ... stabilize yourself, you know.

Joe Rogan 37:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 37:30 StairMaster-

Joe Rogan 37:30 StairMaster will help a little.

Morgan Fallon 37:31 What's that?

Joe Rogan 37:32 StairMaster will help a little, but what really helps-

Morgan Fallon 37:34 It'll help with, like, the major muscle groups, right?

Joe Rogan 37:35 Yeah. Yeah. Running hills, uh, helped me-

Morgan Fallon 37:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:37 ... it helped me a lot.

Morgan Fallon 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Just 'cause it's so much harder than hiking, just run them, you could do it easier. It makes hiking easier.

Morgan Fallon 37:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:44 Hiking with w- weighted packs on too, did you ever do that?

Morgan Fallon 37:47 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:47 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 37:47 I mean that's what we did.

Joe Rogan 37:48 But I mean not... Just like for training purposes.

Morgan Fallon 37:50 Oh, just for training?

Joe Rogan 37:51 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 37:51 Yeah. I would. Um, on the StairMaster actually. I'm f-

Joe Rogan 37:53 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 37:53 Here I am, I'm dissing the StairMaster but that's- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:56 StairMaster is good.

Morgan Fallon 37:56 ... exactly what I was doing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:57 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 37:57 Yeah. No, I'd put weights in my pack and go on the StairMaster.

Joe Rogan 38:00 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 38:01 Yeah. Yeah. And boots, you know.

Joe Rogan 38:03 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 38:03 Wear boots on-

Joe Rogan 38:04 Right.

Morgan Fallon 38:04 ... the StairMaster.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Yeah. Did they let you do that at the gym or did they look at you weird?

Morgan Fallon 38:07 Well, everyone looks at you weird. I mean, oh my God, if you're, if you even talk about hunting in Los Angeles they look at you weird, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:13 That's true.

Morgan Fallon 38:14 You know?

Joe Rogan 38:14 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 38:15 Like, (sniffs) "What's-

Joe Rogan 38:16 "What's wrong with you?"

Morgan Fallon 38:17 "... what's w- What the fuck that guy got-

Joe Rogan 38:18 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 38:18 ... camo on for? I mean-

Joe Rogan 38:19 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 38:20 ... Jesus Christ, dude."

Joe Rogan 38:21 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 38:21 You know?

Joe Rogan 38:22 Did you wear camo at the gym?

Morgan Fallon 38:23 (laughs) I feel like my... I feel like I may have had some camo aspect to my pack.

Joe Rogan 38:28 Pshh.

Morgan Fallon 38:28 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:29 Of course.

Morgan Fallon 38:30 But um-

Joe Rogan 38:31 Bloodstains.

Morgan Fallon 38:32 You know, I... You know, it's interesting though 'cause you get... I think back on those times when, like, you know, like while we're talking about, like, all the shitty weather and all that stuff. And I just think back to that, the first time I went out with Steve, him saying, like, "Yeah, dude, but you won't... You know, you never tell stories about the good days."

Joe Rogan 38:47 Right.

Morgan Fallon 38:47 You know? And I, I got to say, to his credit, that's been absolutely true. It's like-

Joe Rogan 38:51 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 38:51 ... those, those shitty days, freezing cold, you know, getting out of your... Getting out of your, uh, s- sleeping bag in the morning and putting on wet clothes, cold wet clothes to go, you know, to go out and hunt all day. You know, I look back on that with a, like, a great degree of fondness.

Joe Rogan 39:07 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 39:07 And I also have to say, it made me a lot more of a person than I was before, you know.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Toughens you up.

Morgan Fallon 39:14 It, it, it toughened me up and it opened me up to the idea of... It opened me up to accepting, you know, possibilities for myself that I had never thought of before.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 39:26 You know, like, um-

Joe Rogan 39:27 Your capabilities.

Morgan Fallon 39:28 Your capabilities. You know, that, that we, like... We all have that somewhere back down in the brain stem, this idea, this i- ability to just go out in the woods and, you know, hunt something and eat it.

Joe Rogan 39:42 Right.

Morgan Fallon 39:43 You know? And up until that point I had never done that. I'd done some hiking and some camping but it was always on, like, trails and they were all nicely marked and stuff like that. The idea of stepping out of Steve's, the back door of Steve's cabin and just into the woods, at that time for me when I first did it, that was completely new. I was like, "Oh, you can just walk into the woods?"

Joe Rogan 40:01 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 40:01 Like, "What do you, what do you mean, man?"

Joe Rogan 40:02 "Where are you going?"

Morgan Fallon 40:03 Like, "Where, where do we go?"

Joe Rogan 40:04 Right.

Morgan Fallon 40:04 You know? And, uh, and then to, to do it and to have it be successful and to bring that animal back and to sit around and to eat it and all that stuff, that was a real huge aha moment for me.

Joe Rogan 40:16 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 40:16 You know, personally and professionally. Like, "Oh, we can do shit that we used to do, you know, 10,000 years ago."

Joe Rogan 40:22 Well, it was big for me too. I remember saying that on the show, like, when Steve was asking me and Brian, uh, on the first hunt which, just by sheer luck, we were both successful on the, on the first hunt.

Morgan Fallon 40:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:33 And Steve was like, uh, "Do you think you're gonna do it again?" And I said, "Fuck yeah, I'm doing this forever." Like, I knew it.

Morgan Fallon 40:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:39 And he goes-

Morgan Fallon 40:39 Man.

Joe Rogan 40:39 ... "When did you know?" I said, "The moment that deer dropped."

Morgan Fallon 40:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:42 The moment-

Morgan Fallon 40:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:42 ... the deer dropped I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm doing this forever."

Morgan Fallon 40:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 "This is how I'm making, getting my meat now. I'm gonna do this."

Morgan Fallon 40:48 Yeah, man. It's the... It's... I, I... So I, I, I don't know. There's so many just, like, really glib interpretations of, like, the motivation behind hunting, you know. There's the cruelty and blood lust and all th- it's like-

Joe Rogan 40:59 Because in its worst f- cases, that's th- that's true.

Morgan Fallon 41:03 Yeah. And because I, I, I do think that hunting shows for years, that's a lot of what they put forward, was like kind of machismo and guys shooting, you know, black bears over, you know, donut barrels.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 41:15 You know? Um, for all the wrong reasons, you know.

Joe Rogan 41:18 But the, but least we think of that as something that people... Or at least I do, think of that as something that people eat for food. When you think about Cecil, like Cecil the lion-

Morgan Fallon 41:27 Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 41:27 Like, that kind of shit really sours people on the idea of hunting because there's no justification for the average person for shooting a lion. I mean-

Morgan Fallon 41:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:34 ... you have to... You would have to do decades of education about conservation and the importance of the money that goes for the hunt, and then they still don't get it because they're like, "Why would you want to shoot a lion?" And that's the good question.

Morgan Fallon 41:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:46 The good question is-

Morgan Fallon 41:47 It-

Joe Rogan 41:47 ... why would you want to shoot a lion?

Morgan Fallon 41:47 I- But it... You know, and I would say it's a good question for me too. I, like, I definitely have limits. You know, as much as I went around with Steve, um, I have limits on what I would personally choose to do. And I got to say the Africa stuff, for me, man, I just... It's not interesting to me, you know.

Joe Rogan 42:02 The only thing that's interesting to me in Africa would be to hunt something that I would eat. So like-

Morgan Fallon 42:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:07 ... if they have antelope in Africa, I would love to hunt an antelope.

Morgan Fallon 42:09 Yeah, they got a lot of those.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 42:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Hunt an antelope and cook it and eat it.

Morgan Fallon 42:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:13 That, that to me makes sense. There's no way I want to shoot a hippo or anything else cr- I mean, even if people do eat hippos, and I understand they do, that... Okay-... good luck.

Morgan Fallon 42:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:25 I don't, I don't wanna have nothing to do with any of that.

Morgan Fallon 42:27 No, me neither, man.

Joe Rogan 42:27 But, but game animals that have been... that are delicious, nilgai, things like that-

Morgan Fallon 42:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:33 ... that people have eaten forever and that they, they hunt just like they hunt elk or deer here, that to me makes sense. It would be just a, an adventure to go to Africa. But Africa's so fucking scary. It's so sketchy.

Morgan Fallon 42:43 I love... I mean, see I, I love Africa and I, I became like, I kinda took all the Africa shows I could on Parts Unknown.

Joe Rogan 42:51 Really? Would you love to sleep up at my place?

Morgan Fallon 42:53 That's, to me, it's like the most, most like wonderful place. I... Well, um, ah, first of all, I think there's, there's like a... I think it's a... there's a lot of misperception when it comes. I've never had a negative experience there. I've n- I've had maybe... I had one experience that was kind of quasi-threatening, you know?

Joe Rogan 43:12 Quasi?

Morgan Fallon 43:12 We got a... Yeah, I mean, you know, we had a crowd kinda turn on us and throw rocks at us as we were driving away. That's the one experience, there were like hundreds of experiences-

Joe Rogan 43:22 What was that about?

Morgan Fallon 43:22 Well, we were in, uh, we were in Goma, in the DRC, you know, and it's just a, it's just a really, really chaotic place. The place has been run over by civil wars for decades. Um, people are in serious desperation, but I think worse than any of that, there's a huge culture of, um, of non-profit organizations and stuff there. So, I think they're used to kinda white folks coming in with this very patronizing kind of view, um, and then we're down there with cameras, filming them, and then all of a sudden they realize that we're not paying anyone for this. You know? And, uh, and I think, you know, there's a tendency from people to feel like, "Well, you're here taking something from us," you know? "You're clearly making more money than any of us will ever, you know, be able to make and, uh, and what the fuck do we get for it?" You know? And I can understand that point of view. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:14 And how did it turn into them throwing rocks at you guys?

Morgan Fallon 44:16 No, we, d- d... You know, again, they realized that we weren't gonna be paying for any of this, you know? Our security team was like, "Hey, guys. Time to get in the car." And as soon as you get in the car and you're leaving, it's like, "Oh, these fucking assholes, man."

Joe Rogan 44:31 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 44:31 "They just came down here, got, got all their footage, and they're gonna pack up and go back to their nice hotel." You know? Um, but that's the one experience, man. There were like a lot of experiences there. You know, for the most part, I found people there to be like incredibly gracious. You know? I found it to be one, one of the most hopeful places, honestly. Um, my day-to-day experiences in Africa, I saw people who were working their asses off on a grassroots level. The v- the like... Some of the most, um, you know, some of the most like dynamic, grassroots capitalism that I've ever seen. I mean, people who will literally find any s- any way to scrape out an existence and a living. You know? This is not like... This is not a lazy culture. This is a culture that will fight through anything. You know? You go to Lagos, and Lagos is one of the most dynamic cities I've ever been in. It was constantly moving, constantly people trying to make money, constantly people trying to find a niche, you know, in a city of 20 million people. You know? So, I find a lot of beauty in just like raw human endeavor there.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 45:42 And I think that, you know, if they can clear some of the, like obvious stumbling blocks that they have in terms of corruption, in terms of, you know, foreign pressure, um, in terms of, you know, manipulation of markets, um, th- there's, there's tremendous promise there. I mean like d- just in, just in terms of the just, um, the internet and technology sector in Africa is like absolutely booming. You know? You have kids that come in from the villages on the streets of Lagos who can take your computer apart and rebuild it by hand. You know? Self-taught. And all of that potential is there to be tapped. You know? And, and they're starting to. You know? So, I guess I just find it a hopeful place.

Joe Rogan 46:32 That's amazing that you only had one bad experience.

Morgan Fallon 46:34 Only one. Only one. But I can say that about traveling the world kind of in general. I mean, we've been in a number of, you know, relatively hot zones. I mean, we never did active conflict because we don't, you know, make that kinda show. Um, but, you know, being in places like Gaza or the DRC, or-

Joe Rogan 46:52 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 46:52 You know, I, I can count on one hand in, you know, in many, many years of doing this, you know, the number of times that I actually felt threatened by someone. You know? I've found that the most likely scenario is you're gonna get like accosted by a sandwich, you know, or someone trying to, you know, introduce you to their kids, you know, or take a selfie with you. And that's, that's the world that I know. (laughs) I don't really understand the world that we see (laughs) , you know, on TV here, man, 'cause that's not, that's not my experience. You know?

Joe Rogan 47:24 Right.

Morgan Fallon 47:24 You know? A lot of good people. Uh, a- and again, getting back to Tony, I think that, you know, uh, that's the legacy, right? I think that he really showed people that.

Joe Rogan 47:34 That is a problem with our view of the world is that if it doesn't look scary, they're not gonna show it to you.

Morgan Fallon 47:39 No. They're totally-

Joe Rogan 47:39 'Cause if it's not dangerous... I mean, other than his show, what else are you seeing on CNN where they're in Africa where it's a good thing? What else are you seeing where people are in Egypt where it's a good thing? What else are you seeing where people are interacting with people on the street and there's not some sort of a murder story or-

Morgan Fallon 47:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... a rape story or something awful?

Morgan Fallon 48:02 Yeah. I mean, uh, I think you're starting, you're starting to see it a little bit. Um, but mostly you're seeing it in like, you know, on like CNN's Africa, you know, Network or-

Joe Rogan 48:12 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 48:13 ... you know? There, you're starting to see them covering stories about entrepreneurs and seeing-

Joe Rogan 48:17 Right.

Morgan Fallon 48:19 You know, d- positive aspects, you know, building economies and stuff like that, but-

Joe Rogan 48:22 But it's a real problem in our view of the world-

Morgan Fallon 48:24 No.

Joe Rogan 48:24 ... for people that don't travel.

Morgan Fallon 48:25 Well, listen, Africa just simply doesn't make news in the United States. I mean, and l- it's, uh, it takes a genocide.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 48:31 You know?

Joe Rogan 48:32 Well, all I've been hearing about Africa lately is what's going on with white farmers in South Africa, which s- uh-

Morgan Fallon 48:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:37 It's very scary stuff, where people are...... encouraging people to attack white farmers. You know, and there's a whole lot of sociopolitical and economic shit that goes on with that, that I'm not even gonna pretend I understand. But, uh, that's what you hear about. You don't hear about good things. You hear about how many farmers have been murdered-

Morgan Fallon 48:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:56 ... in their homes.

Morgan Fallon 48:57 Well, that's a shame, man. Because, you know, y- you go there and, uh, most of what I find going on there is positive, you know. Li- listen, there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of suffering. There's a lot of bad shit that happens there too, obviously.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Obviously.

Morgan Fallon 49:12 I'm not gonna deny that. You know, but, uh, you know, we don't hear the good stuff.

Joe Rogan 49:18 Did you have a good... Did you have like a place where you enjoyed traveling to the most?

Morgan Fallon 49:23 I, you know, I... Not... I don't think really, because, uh, I, uh... You know, th- I- to me, this is another kind of like real lesson of the show. You know, I think we got to a place where we were finding something kind of everywhere. You know, um, there are some places that I, I didn't enjoy as much, you know. But, uh, I think most places we found something that was like, "Oh, this is, this is awesome." You know?

Joe Rogan 49:51 What was the one place where you're like, "Ugh, I'm not going back here again."

Morgan Fallon 49:57 I don't wanna say.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Okay. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 49:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:00 Keep it positive people, keep it positive.

Morgan Fallon 50:02 Let's just say it's a highly militarized state-

Joe Rogan 50:04 Oh.

Morgan Fallon 50:04 ... with deep problems.

Joe Rogan 50:05 Okay.

Morgan Fallon 50:05 You know, and deep divides and, uh, uh, on both sides.

Joe Rogan 50:10 Yeah. Okay.

Morgan Fallon 50:10 You know. And, uh, and a lot of beautiful people on both sides, but, uh, you know. Um, but I think, you know... I mean, this was something we'd like would encounter a lot as we kind of progress in the show is this i-... You know. I meant, my dad would say it to me all the time, he's like, "Well, where, where are you guys gonna go now?" You know. "You've been everywhere." And it's just like, yeah, but I think we started to learn that you could like really point the camera kinda anywhere. And I think a big one for me was like doing this West Virginia show last year, which is a place that had always been like really close to my heart. Like I grew up there when I was a kid. Um, you know, it's like a place that has been li- I think like deeply misrepresented. Again, another place that's been deeply mi-

Joe Rogan 50:51 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 50:51 ... misrepresented in the media. You know, um, and, uh, but, you know, we got like... W- I got into town on the scout there and it's like, there is no restaurant, you know. It's not just that there's no restaurant like in the town, there's like two restaurants in the county, you know. And I, I remember having this moment of like, "Can we do this? Will this work?" Like, "Will Tony respond to this when we make a show here?" And within two days, he was like m- made this big, you know, very deeply heartfelt statements about the place, really loved it, you know. And it was kind of another aha moment where you're like, "Oh, yeah, of course," 'cause there's something everywhere. The human story is everywhere.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Right.

Morgan Fallon 51:31 And you can dig into it wherever you go. The fundamentals of that don't change. And I think that w- you know, what he did was so cleanly and clearly, um, and so free of bullshit cut to the core of those very fundamental kind of human stories, you know. And, um, anyways, it worked well. We won an Emmy-

Joe Rogan 51:55 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 51:55 ... t- two nights ago for it, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:57 (laughs) Yeah. Posthumous Emmys are always odd, right?

Morgan Fallon 52:01 Yeah. That was a, that was a rough night. Yeah. That was a rough night, man.

Joe Rogan 52:05 Um, when he would get the rough cut-

Morgan Fallon 52:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... would it be the length of the actual show and then he would add narration to it? Did he have any say in the editing process?

Morgan Fallon 52:15 Huge. I mean, uh, so, n- I think that's something important too about who he was, you know. Um, I, I mean, like everyone calls him a chef. He wasn't a chef. Like, he was a producer. (laughs) He was a television producer.

Joe Rogan 52:26 Right.

Morgan Fallon 52:26 You know. Um, he, he would pick the locations, he would pick the subject matter for the most part, you know. There were a couple like-

Joe Rogan 52:33 How did you guys work it out? Like say if you were gonna go to Puerto Rico or something like that, how would you make, make the decisions? How would you decide where to go and why?

Morgan Fallon 52:41 Okay. The... Well, I'll take you through the whole process as well.

Joe Rogan 52:43 Okay. Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 52:44 So, uh, so Tony would come up with a list of places that he was interested in going, and maybe we would throw a couple in, like I mentioned, the West Virginia show, you know. Um, he'd be like, "But this is my list," right? And, um, and then he'd write like a brief on each one, "I'm interested in X." You know, like, "I'm interested in Singapore. Um, it's Disneyland with the death penalty." Right? And you're like, "Okay, so there's like... There's kind of a basic operating thesis," right? We can kinda like go in and look at this place, um, from this perspective. Um, and some of them, uh, uh, some of them didn't... Uh, the Lagos episode, for example, you just feel like l- we, we haven't been to Nigeria, let's go to Nigeria. You know? And then, so we would start doing research on what that was, just big kind of, you know, 30,000 foot macro, you know, what is this environment like? What are the interesting things? What are the stories that have been told about this place? And how can we look at it from a different angle? So like the Nigeria one, we kinda focused in on, like I said, you know, um, grassroots capitalism, DIY entrepreneurship, you know, street level, um, you know, s- the street level kind of dynamics of the economy, you know. And that became like... Like we could see ways to kinda make a beautiful like human story out of those elements. So I'd end up putting down to him probably in like a two or three page thing, like, "Here are my ideas." You know. "Here's what I found based on what you are interested in. Here's some other things I found. This is the way we'd kinda like to go about it." And he'd either be like, "Yeah," or "No." You know, and from that point, um, we just get heavy into research, write a treatment, you know, um, and break that story into like six acts. Right? And then look for scenes to kind of fill and articulate that story. So it's scenes like-... you know, I have this great economist. I know we're going to need an economist at some point, but we got to put ... You know, economists are kind of boring by nature. So we got to put him somewhere more dynamic, where there's this really interesting computer market that has a lot of energy. So let's put the economist there. They can walk around. There's a great restaurant in the corner there. So, like, here are some elements we can put together." That's a scene in a act of the show. So you put all that stuff together in treatment form, send it to Tony. U- usually minimal notes from him, you know. Um, (smacks lips) and then, uh, and then we'd go out, scout, shoot the show, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:22 How weird is it shooting in a restaurant with camera people standing over the table?

Morgan Fallon 55:26 I think we got ... I think we got really good at not taking over the environment, you know. That's ... So I don't ... I, I, I don't know. I, I don't know how to answer that because-

Joe Rogan 55:35 How ... But how do you do it? Like-

Morgan Fallon 55:36 ... how do we do it?

Joe Rogan 55:37 ... say if you and I are having a conversation at dinner and we're being filmed.

Morgan Fallon 55:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:41 Is ... Would they be as close as Jamie is right there?

Morgan Fallon 55:43 The cameras?

Joe Rogan 55:44 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 55:44 Closer than that.

Joe Rogan 55:45 They're right on top of you?

Morgan Fallon 55:46 Yeah. They're pretty close. But, you know-

Joe Rogan 55:48 And they're standing?

Morgan Fallon 55:49 Yeah. But we wouldn't use like ... There, there were, there were rules to that, right?

Joe Rogan 55:53 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 55:53 'Cause it ... Like, we're a documentary show. We can't just go in and just like completely take over some place.

Joe Rogan 55:58 Of course. Right.

Morgan Fallon 55:59 Or take over some village or scare the shit outta local people or ... You know what I mean? Like, we gotta go in with some deafness, you know? So we would go in early and we would light so that the characters, Tony aren't really seeing us screw around with lighting.

Joe Rogan 56:12 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 56:12 Stuff like that. That's all kind of in place. Um, put the cameras in there. No sound guy, no big booms.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Right.

Morgan Fallon 56:21 Sit the rest of the crew down.

Joe Rogan 56:23 Are they wearing wireless mics?

Morgan Fallon 56:24 Yeah. Exactly. And then, and then, uh, and then fill in local people-

Joe Rogan 56:30 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 56:30 ... in the rest of the restaurant. Make sure that there are people who actually go to that restaurant in the restaurant.

Joe Rogan 56:36 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 56:36 Make sure that it feels like alive, not like full of, you know, extras like-

Joe Rogan 56:41 Right.

Morgan Fallon 56:42 ... miming dialogue, you know?

Joe Rogan 56:43 And are they carrying large cameras? Like how big are the cameras they're carrying?

Morgan Fallon 56:46 They're big cameras. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:47 Like regular big old production cameras, heavy on the shoulders-

Morgan Fallon 56:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:51 ... like you guys would use on Meat Eater?

Morgan Fallon 56:52 Yeah. Uh, not so ... Yeah. You know, but again, you know, it's two guys standing there-

Joe Rogan 56:58 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 56:58 ... with cameras that have been traveling, at least from Tony's perspective, been traveling with Tony for a long time, you know?

Joe Rogan 57:04 Right.

Morgan Fallon 57:04 So it's just like having two more, you know, friends at the meal.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Right.

Morgan Fallon 57:07 In terms of with the sidekicks, you know, I think we learned early on that like you gotta like ... You gotta go up, you gotta introduce yourself, you gotta smile, you gotta laugh. You gotta be able to be self-deprecating and make them feel comfortable, like you're there to ask them questions-

Joe Rogan 57:21 Right.

Morgan Fallon 57:21 ... not to tell them who they are, you know? And, um, I don't know, man. It ... I, I, I gotta say we, we traveled all over the place. A lot of people had never been on camera before. It largely worked, you know? So we must've been doing something right.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Was there ever a time you were in a restaurant and people were pissed off that there was people standing there with cameras filming a table?

Morgan Fallon 57:40 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah?

Morgan Fallon 57:41 Yeah. But, you know, that's pretty easy. You know, someone gets pissed off and they wave you off and just, "Okay, cool. Sorry." You know? "No worries." You know? I, I ... It never really escalated, you know, at least with me. It never escalated.

Joe Rogan 57:57 You had a view of the world by doing that show and traveling the way you did that is ... Less than 1% of the population is ever gonna experience. Probably less-

Morgan Fallon 58:05 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:05 ... than 1% of 1%.

Morgan Fallon 58:06 Yeah. I would say for sure.

Joe Rogan 58:07 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 58:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 I mean, th- ... It's gotta be an incredibly enriching journey for you.

Morgan Fallon 58:12 Yeah. Hugely. I mean, hugely. There's ... I mean, it's ... I don't know. It's just very simple. There's before and there's after, and it's two different people, really, you know?

Joe Rogan 58:23 I think it's just all the data you ... How to take in the view of the world changes. It gets bigger, becomes a much bigger place.

Morgan Fallon 58:29 It does. That's what's ... You know, that's exactly right. And that's what's really interesting. I tell people this too. They'd be like, "Oh, well, you know, you've been all these places." You know, it's like, yeah, but the, the world doesn't work like that. It doesn't ... It's not like the more places you go, the smaller the world feels. The more places you go, the bigger the world feels.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Right.

Morgan Fallon 58:46 It just feels bigger and bigger and bigger 'cause you realize like, there's, you know, people everywhere.

Joe Rogan 58:50 There's this country. There's this county in this country. There's this town in this county. There's this street. There's all these other streets. There's all these other people.

Morgan Fallon 58:57 Yeah. You know? Our shows were just a sliver of a place, a tiny little sliver, you know? You can go into Lagos. We can go back to Lagos and make 10 more shows, each one of them completely unique and individual, you know? The world's a big place. There's a lot of shit going on, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:15 Yeah. Now, they're gonna keep airing these shows, right? I mean-

Morgan Fallon 59:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:22 ... how long are they gonna ... how long are they gonna do this for? They have ... How many did they have all told? How many ... They did five seasons.

Morgan Fallon 59:29 Five seasons, 18 ... I ... I mean, I guess we're getting near 100 shows, you know? I've never counted. I don't really know. A lot of shows though. Yeah, they'll keep airing them.

Joe Rogan 59:37 I have it on my-

Morgan Fallon 59:38 I hope.

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... DVR. So they'll, uh, occasionally run these marathons and-

Morgan Fallon 59:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:42 ... I'll go to my DVR and there's like 20 new shows.

Morgan Fallon 59:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:45 You know? And, uh, I watched a, a few of them the other night. Uh, the first time I watched it in a while, I, uh, I posted a, a thing on Instagram too about it 'cause I, I'd ... I was real reluctant to watch it after he died. But then I went on a bender-

Morgan Fallon 1:00:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 ... and then I watched like ... I binged, watched like three of them in a night and I was like, "Goddamn, what a good show it was."

Morgan Fallon 1:00:07 Yeah. Yeah. It was good, man.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 You guys nailed it.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 I mean, you really ... You should be really proud.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:12 Thanks, man. Yeah. And I'm ... You know, I'm actually still working on one right now, which is, uh, maybe the weirdest experience, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:21 You were asking about process before, you know? After we'd shoot it, that's when Tony really came in, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 What do you do if he's not there for narration?

Morgan Fallon 1:00:29 Well, that's the, that's the thing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Who narrates it?

Morgan Fallon 1:00:31 You know? I mean, um, it's ... I'm not gonna replace Tony.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 So no-

Morgan Fallon 1:00:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 ... narration?

Morgan Fallon 1:00:35 No.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:36 No. I mean, we have our sidekicks, uh, talking to him. We have ...... his dialogue in the field-

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:44 ... you know. But w- who's gonna step in and do that voice?

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 No one.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:47 And, and how offensive would it be if we did that?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 It would have to be someone w- who is so close to him that it didn't, didn't freak everybody out. It'd have to be someone who was on the show 1,000 times and was just there with him always.

Morgan Fallon 1:00:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 And that person doesn't really exist.

Morgan Fallon 1:01:02 Doesn't, yeah. There's no v- you know, there's no voice there.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 When you would give him a rough cut, um, say, if y- like I said, a show on Puerto Rico-

Morgan Fallon 1:01:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 ... what have you.

Morgan Fallon 1:01:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 So he would take that, he would watch it, and then he would start writing?

Morgan Fallon 1:01:14 Exactly. So yeah, gettin' back to process, you'd like ... I'd send him an act, right, once it was in rough cut form and then you'd get his notes back. That was always kind of a terrifying moment too 'cause you're like, (laughs) "Dude, you've worked on this thing a lot."

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:01:28 And you send it off to him and he can go one way or another, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:01:31 I got, (laughs) I ... You know, I got gutted a few times, man. But I got a couple that were like out fuckin' standing, you know, and that's all the notes he had.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 1:01:39 But you would, um, you'd send him basically scratch writing. So you'd say like, "Here's what we're thinking," you know, is this kind of idea goes here, this kind of idea goes here, and then he would actually write it, you know, and you'd get that writing back and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 How long would it take for him to do something like that?

Morgan Fallon 1:01:54 Oh, he ripped that shit out, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Yeah?

Morgan Fallon 1:01:56 He was fast. And that's the thing too, I never ... You know, there was never an email or a text that he didn't get back to you. There was a- he was no slouch, man. He like, he was sharp, he was on it. He'd get back to you, he'd do the work. You know, it, um ... It-

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 Well, he took pride in that.

Morgan Fallon 1:02:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 He would talk about that-

Morgan Fallon 1:02:14 A lot of pride.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 ... doin', doing the work.

Morgan Fallon 1:02:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:02:16 Yeah. And he did. I mean, there's ano- that's another, another thing that was so delightful about it, you know. It's not like you're having to drag some, you know, carcass along and, you know, prop him up in front of the camera and, you know ... He was into it, man, and like he had total ownership, total control, awesome, incredible creative ideas, incredible creative power. Like he was in, you know, and no show was like, "Eh, fuck it," you know, we can just like kinda slip by on this one. You know, every show was important and when they, you know, when they weren't working, he was pissed, you know, and great, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:02:57 I think the biggest thing that I miss in this process of cutting this Texas show that I'm doing now, um, is not having the pressure of him looking at it and being like, "Dude," you know, "No, man. This, this ain't working."

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:03:12 You know, that was a real benefit to us.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 Yeah. When did he start smoking again?

Morgan Fallon 1:03:19 I, you know, it's the weirdest thing, man. I, I didn't know, I didn't really know he was smoking again and then the Pulia show came out and I just saw him light up on camera. You know, I was like, "Oh, shit. I guess we're doing this again."

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 Really?

Morgan Fallon 1:03:33 And then a couple of my, like a couple of my shows at the end, he'd start just lighting up on camera and that was always like ... That was always no-go territory. Like, if he ... In the past, when he was smoking, we would like stop shooting, you know? Um, all of a sudden, he was just lighting up right on camera and I don't know, it shocked the shit out of me, you know. I kinda looked around the crew like, "What, what do we do?" Like ...

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Well, I was shocked because he said that when his daughter was born is when he decided to stop smoking 'cause he realized that, you know, he had something else to live for and that he, you know, he didn't wanna be on some cancer bed-

Morgan Fallon 1:04:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 ... getting fucking iron lung, having his daughter visit him.

Morgan Fallon 1:04:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 So he quit.

Morgan Fallon 1:04:18 Yeah. It was a bummer when he started again and that's, you know ...

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Did he stop going to jujitsu?

Morgan Fallon 1:04:27 I don't know. I- it ... I guess it wasn't as frequent during the end, you know, uh, during the last few episodes. I'd ... You know, we stopped kinda having to find gyms, um, when we'd offer, you know, and they'd be like, "No, I'm ..." you know. Cool. So I think the last couple of shows were probably like that for me where I was like, "You want us to find a local gym?" They'd be like, "No, I'm," you know, "I'm good, man."

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 So was it within the last year or so or less, less than a year?

Morgan Fallon 1:04:59 I'd say the last year or so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 So that's when the smoking started?

Morgan Fallon 1:05:04 I guess. Maybe a little earlier than that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 Whew, it's a bummer when you see someone quit and then go back on. It's-

Morgan Fallon 1:05:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 That is one of the, the weirder things-

Morgan Fallon 1:05:14 It is, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 ... of our culture.

Morgan Fallon 1:05:15 'Cause he got through ... I mean, he got through the really hard part, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 1:05:19 He had a couple years under his belt.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:05:22 And he looked great, man. He was, you know, really, uh ... He was doing really well, yeah, with that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:05:29 So ...

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Where do you go from here, Mo?

Morgan Fallon 1:05:31 Where do I go from here?

Joe Rogan 1:05:32 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:05:32 Oh, shit. I ... You know. Um, I ... You know, Tony Gay- I think gave us like tremendous tools to, you know, for how we look at the world and like how we will continue to go on looking at the world, and, um, I don't know exactly what show I'll do, but I know it will continue that kinda ethos, you know, and, um, I get, you know ... I feel like I have this very powerful kind of, um ... I don't know, like I said, set of tools now that, that he kinda handed us and, you know, that, uh, to go on and keep doing, I guess, this work, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 Isn't the problem with this work that you need someone like him? You kinda need like either a Rinella who's a very unique person and in many ways similar, not self-destructive at all, but really meticulous about his work-

Morgan Fallon 1:06:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 ... and a very good writer as well-

Morgan Fallon 1:06:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 And his narration. Like, one of the things that separates Meat Eater from any other show is that Steve has this eloquent narration-

Morgan Fallon 1:06:46 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 That goes to it.

Morgan Fallon 1:06:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 And it makes you realize like our perception of what it means to be a hunter is based on stereotypes, negative stereotypes, that-... and the, this is a, that, the best example.

Morgan Fallon 1:06:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 This is a really well-read, brilliant man who has a great passion for the outdoors and for public lands and for wildlife, and for consuming wildlife. And this, this, this adventure of pursuing it and, and eating it, and cooking it, and showing you the art of cooking it. You know, the, that, you, you wouldn't be able to make Meat Eater with Pig Man. (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 1:07:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 1:07:27 Dude, I can't even talk about Pig Man for-

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 1:07:30 ... such a fucking guy. Jesus, the, the Aporkalypse?

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:07:33 I mean, come on, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 Well, unfortunately, I enjoyed that-

Morgan Fallon 1:07:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 ... uh, with, for all the wrong reasons.

Morgan Fallon 1:07:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 For, you can see there's justification in enjoying Aporkalypse, first of all, because you got Ted Nugent with a machine gun in the helicopter.

Morgan Fallon 1:07:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 Okay? And then two, you have this real wild pig epidemic. It's a legitimate epidemic in Texas, and they don't know how to eradicate them.

Morgan Fallon 1:07:56 I get, I get all that. And I, and-

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 But putting it on television on a hunting show, it's not really hunting.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:03 No.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 It's assassinating out of a helicopter.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:05 It's the-

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 And they're laughing, and there's-

Morgan Fallon 1:08:07 That, it's that part.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:08 It's the mentality behind it that, you know. I'm like, listen, I'm not saying don't have fun on a hunt. I've had a lot of fun on hunts, you know? I have a great time on a hunt. I don't know. There's something about, you know, just-

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:19 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 I know what you're saying. I know exactly what you're saying.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:21 You know, firing off 1,000 rounds cackling-

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:24 ... out of the side of a helicopter, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Yeah, laughing when you see pigs do somersaults 'cause you head shot at them from-

Morgan Fallon 1:08:29 And yeah, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 ... a sideways helicopter.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:30 You know, I, I, I think, you know, and I think this is one of the things I really loved about Steve. You know, like one, or love still (laughs) that I, that I still love about Steve.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 (laughs)

Morgan Fallon 1:08:41 Um, you know, uh, a, a really poignant episode on that show for me was when we went up to Alaska and we were, uh, hunting black bear, and, uh, and he decided not to take a shot.

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:08:55 You know, I mean, here's a guy that loves animals as much as he loves hunting animals, as much as he loves conservation of animals, as much as he loves the knowledge and the science behind animals and the natural world, you know. Um, that to me was appealing. Like, that's something I can sink my teeth into-

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:12 ... and dedicate my efforts towards, you know, furthering-

Joe Rogan 1:09:16 That was a crazy show.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:16 ... and working on. Yeah, it was a crazy show, man.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 I mean, I talked to him about it and his sort of idea of why he didn't do it was so interesting.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 He just kinda went with his feelings.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:26 Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 Yeah. To have a hunting show where you have a bear, which is what you're looking for-

Morgan Fallon 1:09:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 ... lined up in your scope-

Morgan Fallon 1:09:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:33 ... and you go, (sucks teeth) "I don't wanna do it."

Morgan Fallon 1:09:35 "I'm not feeling it." And I, and I loved what he said too at the time. So he was like, "I'm not saying I'm never gonna shoot a bear again. I just don't wanna shoot a bear today, and I'm not gonna." And that, I, that was a big moment, man.

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 That's, b- well, that's with the words coming out of his mouth. How conflicted must his perception be to realize that, okay, I'm filming a show-

Morgan Fallon 1:09:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 ... where I'm actively hunting bears.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 There's camera people there.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 There's a budget behind it.

Morgan Fallon 1:09:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:59 Now I have to make a show about my decision to not hunt a bear, and then next week I'm gonna go hunt something else. And then the next week I'm gonna go hunt s- something else.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:07 Yeah, but I mean, that, like his ability to, to like admit and kinda understand-

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:12 ... that the human being is a complex animal with complex emotions-

Joe Rogan 1:10:16 Right.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:16 ... and that, you know, this idea of just kind of uniform direction of the human mind is like a total fallacy, man.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 Mm-hmm.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:25 We're all over the fucking place, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 Yeah.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:27 And like, I, I, I don't know. I really bought in at that moment. If I hadn't before, which I completely kinda had, but I really bought in at that moment. I was like he, this is, this is a guy I can always stand behind, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 One of my favorite episodes-

Morgan Fallon 1:10:41 It was brave.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 It was brave-

Morgan Fallon 1:10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 ... because you realize this is on the Sportsman's Network.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 So the Sportsman's Channel, and they have only hunting shows.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:49 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 And then he's on a hunting show with, you got all these people that are watching that would k- kill to be on a hunt like that.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 And to have a big old bear in their sights, what they want.

Morgan Fallon 1:10:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 And they're thinking we're gonna see Steve shoot this, then we're gonna see him cook up a bear roast, and he's gonna-

Morgan Fallon 1:11:04 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 ... they're gonna see stewed carrots and onions-

Morgan Fallon 1:11:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:07 ... and potatoes, and this is gonna be amazing, and he's gonna go, "No, I don't wanna do it."

Morgan Fallon 1:11:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 And everybody's like, "What?"

Morgan Fallon 1:11:12 Yeah, and we were like, we were really nervous, I remember, when the episode came out. We were like, was this... And we had done a few things before, like we had failed at a hunt, like, y- you know, we had taken shots that missed and the hunt failed. We had gone on a mountain lion hunt where we never even saw a mountain lion. Those