Joe Rogan Experience #1185 - Kelly Slater

Joe Rogan 0:02 Four, three, two, one. (claps) Kelly Slater, we've been talking about doing this for how long? (laughs)

Kelly Slater 0:08 A couple years. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:09 It's been a while, man.

Kelly Slater 0:10 Thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 0:10 Thanks for being here.

Kelly Slater 0:11 Thanks a lot, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:11 I'm glad we finally got a chance to do it. What are you in California for? I know you broke your foot, right?

Kelly Slater 0:16 I broke my foot real bad. I, um-

Joe Rogan 0:17 How'd you do that?

Kelly Slater 0:18 My... Well, my girlfriend's from San Clemente, and, uh, her family lives there. And, uh, so we kinda live here, and we're not moving around too much, so I'm just kinda here right now. I'm not competing. I broke my foot, I was surfing in South Africa about, um, 15 months ago. And I was just on a wave that I wouldn't consider a very big wave, nobody would really consider dangerous. And it all kinda closed out, which is, you know, when it all breaks at once, I just pulled in the thing 'cause I was gonna sorta wash in on the rocks right where that was and change boards. And, uh, I was practicing. I, I had to compete in about two hours from then, so I was just testing out different boards. For some reason, I wasn't riding the board I was planning on riding competition, so I was gonna come in and change and switch to my norm board. And I just pulled in this wave and just... I kinda hesitated. Like, usually, you either ride those out and stay on your board, or you jump off, and I was kinda be- between the two. And I kinda lifted my front foot off and my back foot, my leg was straight 'cause I was kinda going to... I think I was gonna jump off. And as my foot got... my leg got locked back straight, the board flipped in-

Joe Rogan 1:21 Oh.

Kelly Slater 1:21 ... against the toes-

Joe Rogan 1:23 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 1:23 ... and it just broke the top of my foot in half.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Oh.

Kelly Slater 1:25 Like, immediate, like, there was-

Joe Rogan 1:27 Oh, my God.

Kelly Slater 1:28 Yeah, it-

Joe Rogan 1:28 We're looking at a photograph of the X-ray right now, and it's like every bone is snapped.

Kelly Slater 1:33 Well, what you can't see... So the-

Joe Rogan 1:35 Ooh.

Kelly Slater 1:35 Do you know... Are you, are you aware of the Lisfranc joint?

Joe Rogan 1:38 No.

Kelly Slater 1:38 Which is like... That's where the first big metatarsal comes together, so that first big joint on top of the foot there.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Why is it called the Lisfranc joint?

Kelly Slater 1:45 Lisfranc was a doctor, I think, is what I... um, I could... We could look this up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:50 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 1:51 I think that was the person that did the original surgery-

Joe Rogan 1:53 Oh.

Kelly Slater 1:53 ... which when you used to break your foot in a stirrup back 100 years ago, they used to cut your foot off.

Joe Rogan 1:58 Oh, God damn it.

Kelly Slater 1:59 Yeah, so, so that was what, what it, uh... That was kinda how this sort of joint got famous. But normally what happens is those toes, those two bones right there, the first and second metatarsal, can either spread or converge one way or the other, and that's usually what a Lisfranc fracture is. I had the best of the three, which is... I had a crack, you can just see on the right side of... Yeah, if you go down with the cursor right there, just a little lower, there's a little crack right there. Uh, right there on that l- corner up.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 2:32 And then the next one broke across. You can just see right there, it's cracked across and then-

Joe Rogan 2:36 Uh-huh.

Kelly Slater 2:36 So it kinda went in a line up and across the foot. And the, the-

Joe Rogan 2:39 And then the other two are just destroyed.

Kelly Slater 2:41 Yeah, the third one displaced, the fourth one shattered into about eight pieces.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Oh.

Kelly Slater 2:45 The doctor said he lost count putting them back together. And the... You know, you, you would know from injuries, the problem with when there's shatters of bone, they're not getting the blood flow.

Joe Rogan 2:53 Right.

Kelly Slater 2:53 So it's not like a four or five week repair job. It's like... That was like nine months before that thing was back together properly.

Joe Rogan 3:00 So when they do that, how do they piece that shattered one back together again?

Kelly Slater 3:05 Uh, delicately. And they put like a mesh over. So you gotta kinda like figure out how to... Well, I had, I had a plate on the Lisfranc, and then I had a, a, a plaint, pla- uh, a kind of a bridge across the third and fourth, and so they kinda meshed it all together and then, uh, I think I had 16 screws combined in all that.

Joe Rogan 3:28 Godamn, man.

Kelly Slater 3:30 Um, it wa- it was, it was brutal. The problem with it was I did it in South Africa where I wasn't gonna get surgery.

Joe Rogan 3:36 Oh.

Kelly Slater 3:37 Um, so I had to wait for the swelling to go down for about six days before I could fly-

Joe Rogan 3:41 Oh, Goddamn.

Kelly Slater 3:41 ... 'cause they thought the foot was gonna swell too much, 'cause it was already swollen from the event, so I iced the shit out of my foot for like, you know, five days and sat there and watched... Unfortunately, the waves were perfect, so I was sitting on the beaches watching perfect waves.

Joe Rogan 3:53 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 3:53 You know, it's like, that's like as painful as the injury to a surfer, you know?

Joe Rogan 3:57 Right.

Kelly Slater 3:57 It's like watching a bunch of elk f- walk by in front of you and n- and not, not scare to you, right?

Joe Rogan 4:02 Right.

Kelly Slater 4:02 And, uh, um, so I, I sat there 'cause the, the whole time prior to, to me being injured while I was there for like two weeks, the waves weren't very good, so I broke my foot and the waves got great.

Joe Rogan 4:13 Oh.

Kelly Slater 4:14 So I had to watch it. So it's, that's painful for us, but, uh, so then I waited for the swelling to go down, then I... It's two red-eyes to get back, so I-

Joe Rogan 4:21 The... Was there no way you could get it fixed in South Africa?

Kelly Slater 4:23 I maybe could've, but then I was probably looking at staying in Africa for a month or more. And, and also I didn't know the, the quality, sort of level of quality of doctor I was gonna get there.

Joe Rogan 4:34 Right.

Kelly Slater 4:35 And I, I got a doctor I work with here, and I called him straight away. I said, "Look, I... It's my fourth broken foot, but I've never broken it like this." Usually it's like, let it heal for four weeks and you're surfing.

Joe Rogan 4:45 And it's all from surfing?

Kelly Slater 4:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 You- Did you bring them-

Kelly Slater 4:47 And all from the same wave.

Joe Rogan 4:48 Oh, really?

Kelly Slater 4:49 Really, pretty much the board going back against the foot.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Fuck.

Kelly Slater 4:52 Um, 'cause... And usually it happens when I'm... you know, I don't know how well-versed you are in surfing, but when I'm tube riding and usually with my back to the wave, which has happened two or three times, so I'm in the wave, the, the lip pitches over and lands, but when that lands, it sends a shock back into the wave. Like, you know when the lip hits flat water, that lip, some of the energy goes down and some disperses out and up and some comes back into the tube. So if it does that and you're in the wrong spot, the board will flip into your feet. But-

Joe Rogan 5:22 Oh, wow.

Kelly Slater 5:23 ... normally what we do is we're, we're... when you're w- backside barrel ride, a lot of times you're grabbing the rail, so you kinda have both your feet and your hand on it so you can handle that shock.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 5:32 But if you're just going no hand backside, it's usually a pretty big, intense barrel, and, and so the l- that lip has a lot of energy in it and shoots a ton of force back towards you. And if, if the... it hits your board just wrong, it can flip into your foot and break it.

Joe Rogan 5:45 Do you know anybody else who's broken their foot like you, like that?

Kelly Slater 5:48 Not this bad. Um, one guy on tour broke his foot, uh, pretty bad n- requiring surgery this year. Um-

Joe Rogan 5:55 That looks horrible, man.

Kelly Slater 5:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:56 How long was it before you could walk... No, you're walking totally normal now. So how long has it been since the surgery?

Kelly Slater 6:00 Yeah, so, so I had surgery in end of July last year, and then walking normal wasn't till...... maybe December, January.

Joe Rogan 6:12 Wow.

Kelly Slater 6:13 December. Well, December I competed again, but I probably shouldn't have.

Joe Rogan 6:16 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 6:18 But we were, we were at Pipeline in Hawaii, which is ... You're not doing maneuvers. It's not a small wave kinda compet- ... If the waves are small, I wouldn't have surfed. Since it's bigger-

Joe Rogan 6:26 Oh.

Kelly Slater 6:26 ... it's a little easier 'cause you take off and kinda trim a straight line.

Joe Rogan 6:29 Right.

Kelly Slater 6:29 So you're kinda going straight, you know. Even though you're riding the barrel, you're kinda going straight, and-

Joe Rogan 6:34 But are you conscious of your foot being compromised?

Kelly Slater 6:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:37 Wow.

Kelly Slater 6:38 I don't know. I just, I, that's my favorite event in the world, so I just didn't wanna miss it, but-

Joe Rogan 6:42 But fuck, if you broke your foot again?

Kelly Slater 6:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:44 Oh, oh. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 6:45 But then, you know, the bones were pretty good back together then and I could walk somewhat without pain. And if I put myself in a real vulnerab- vos- vulnera- vulnerable position on a wave, I would kinda maybe jump off, you know. I wouldn't really push it. It's not worth winning a contest to like-

Joe Rogan 7:01 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 7:01 ... break my foot again, but-

Joe Rogan 7:02 I'm sure.

Kelly Slater 7:03 ... to be able to surf Pipeline with no one out is, is kinda worth the little risk.

Joe Rogan 7:08 Now when you are healing, is there anything they give you that can accelerate bone healing? Or is there any supplements, or?

Kelly Slater 7:15 Uh, uh, a lot of it is kind of ... I mean, it's the furthest place from your heart, right? So, and it's-

Joe Rogan 7:21 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 7:21 ... it's down at the bottom of your body, so you gotta kinda get that foot up. Like, a lot of times I'll sit against a wall and elevate my foot and let it completely flush out. You know when you're a kid and you kinda hold your hand and somebody pushes all the blood outta your hand? You ever do that one?

Joe Rogan 7:34 No.

Kelly Slater 7:34 Oh, it's like this trick where somebody holds your, your-

Joe Rogan 7:38 Your wrist?

Kelly Slater 7:38 ... hands, your, your arteries so no blood's going in. You push all the han- all the blood out, and then you let it go and it's like a little spider web. Feels like, if somebody goes like that, it would feel like a spiderweb.

Joe Rogan 7:47 Oh, you know what? I think I did do that when I was a kid.

Kelly Slater 7:48 Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 7:49 I just forgot about it.

Kelly Slater 7:49 ... I just kind of imagine (snaps fingers) that's what I was doing with my foot up and, like, "Oh, okay, all the blood's getting outta my foot now." And, um, (smacks lips) uh-

Joe Rogan 7:57 But did you-

Kelly Slater 7:58 But they-

Joe Rogan 7:58 ... like research whether there's something that accelerates bone healing, or?

Kelly Slater 8:02 You can use magnets, like some magnets-

Joe Rogan 8:04 Magnets?

Kelly Slater 8:04 Yeah. Some people believe magnets help increase the circulation and thus the, the, uh-

Joe Rogan 8:10 Oh, these-

Kelly Slater 8:10 Especially a, a rotating magnet 'cause it kinda creates a force field around your foot.

Joe Rogan 8:14 Really?

Kelly Slater 8:15 Yeah, supposedly.

Joe Rogan 8:16 I mean-

Kelly Slater 8:16 I mean around the magnets.

Joe Rogan 8:17 But is this, like ... Are these legit people? Are these, like-

Kelly Slater 8:20 These are, like, theories.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Healers?

Kelly Slater 8:22 Healers.

Joe Rogan 8:23 I'm a healer.

Kelly Slater 8:24 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:24 An energy healer. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 8:25 Well, I'm just saying what I've heard people believe.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Right.

Kelly Slater 8:27 So the first time I broke my foot, uh, a guy, a, um, a chiropractor guy I had gone to, he's like, "Just p- ... When you go to sleep, it's not gonna hurt you. Just put it on your foot." And I was actually competing, uh, five weeks after I broke that foot. So I don't know if it helped or not, but I'd just asleep and it was near my foot and maybe it helped, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 8:46 It takes six weeks for a bone to heal, right? Doesn't it?

Kelly Slater 8:50 Four.

Joe Rogan 8:50 When you're young, in particular.

Kelly Slater 8:51 It takes four weeks, and then it takes two more weeks for the calcium to properly fill in.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Oh.

Kelly Slater 8:56 So, like, the, i- if you take an X-ray after four weeks, it'll still look like there's a hole, like a break there. But apparently the bone has sutured itself back, but the calcium has not filled in to make it totally strong.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Oh.

Kelly Slater 9:11 That's what I was told by my doctor on this last one, 'cause I asked every question possible. "Why does it still look broken? Why is it ... " and he was telling me-

Joe Rogan 9:18 Right.

Kelly Slater 9:18 ... you know, it's not till you get enough blood flow and then it's healed, and then it's ... Once there's the proper blood flow in the bone, then you get the calcium coming back in.

Joe Rogan 9:26 The only thing that I've heard, do- that really is supposed to accelerate healing is the hyperbaric chamber. Did you try that at all?

Kelly Slater 9:32 Yeah, which, which I didn't do. I had one sort of at hand in Hawaii I could have gone to, but I didn't. I was just-

Joe Rogan 9:37 Oh, that's supposed to r- I know that Uriah Faber used that a lot after he fought Jose Aldo. Aldo kicked the shit out of his leg and his leg was really badly swollen. It was horrible.

Kelly Slater 9:46 No break- did he break the bone there?

Joe Rogan 9:47 No, didn't break the bone, but it was, it was so bad. It was like his left leg was literally twice the size and purple.

Kelly Slater 9:54 Yeah, I remember ... I've seen the, I've seen the fight-

Joe Rogan 9:56 The photos?

Kelly Slater 9:57 ... and heard you talking, you know.

Joe Rogan 9:58 And there it is right there. There's a photo of it. (gasps)

Kelly Slater 9:59 Yeah, and in the fight you're talking about, look at the color on his leg.

Joe Rogan 10:01 It was so nasty.

Kelly Slater 10:03 Yeah, it was hideous.

Joe Rogan 10:03 That was, uh, Aldo when he was in his prime.

Kelly Slater 10:06 And he ... You didn't see those kicks. You couldn't see his kicks coming. They're just like-

Joe Rogan 10:10 He was so fast.

Kelly Slater 10:10 He doesn't even load up.

Joe Rogan 10:12 Oh, look at that.

Kelly Slater 10:12 It just, there.

Joe Rogan 10:13 God. That's probably right afterwards.

Kelly Slater 10:15 It must have felt broken.

Joe Rogan 10:17 It feels fucking horrible just to get hit once, man. I mean, Uriah is so tough. To just take that-

Kelly Slater 10:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:23 ... over and over and over again like he did.

Kelly Slater 10:25 Yeah. (laughs) Well, do y- can you check those? I mean, what if-

Joe Rogan 10:28 You can, but-

Kelly Slater 10:29 Can you turn into them and let- what is the-

Joe Rogan 10:30 The problem is when you get hit o- ... Just getting hit once by a guy who's really good, like a Peter Aerts or someone who's like a really good leg kicker, they hit you once and you're, you're not even gonna be able to lift your leg upright. You-

Kelly Slater 10:42 Well, think of a charley horse a guy gives you-

Joe Rogan 10:44 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 10:44 ... in school when you're a kid.

Joe Rogan 10:45 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 10:45 You know how bad that ... It's probably 10 times that or whatever.

Joe Rogan 10:47 That's way worse than 10 times, yeah. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 10:49 Yeah, (laughs) whatever it is.

Joe Rogan 10:49 There's, uh ... Ernesto Hoost is probably one of the greatest leg kick-

Kelly Slater 10:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:53 Not probably, definitely one of the greatest leg kickers of all time.

Kelly Slater 10:56 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 10:56 And there is a video called The Perfect Leg Kick by Ernesto Hoost and it just shows you, like, a compilation of him landing leg kicks on people.

Kelly Slater 11:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:04 And you just see, like, they're like, "Ah!"

Kelly Slater 11:06 Oh.

Joe Rogan 11:06 You see their, their, their leg buckle and, and he would ... With him, he would whip it down. Like, he had this-

Kelly Slater 11:13 Angle there.

Joe Rogan 11:13 He's a, yeah, he's a long, tall guy and his technique was just perfect.

Kelly Slater 11:18 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 11:18 There's video of him. He was so good. Look, watch this left, left kick, or left kick and then-

Kelly Slater 11:23 Oh.

Joe Rogan 11:23 Left hook, rather, and then the right leg kick. The way he would do it-

Kelly Slater 11:26 Yeah, 'cause you're covering up top and you don't might-

Joe Rogan 11:27 Bing, whack.

Kelly Slater 11:27 ... maybe even see it, huh?

Joe Rogan 11:29 Yeah. Look at this, though. Bing, whack.

Kelly Slater 11:31 Down.

Joe Rogan 11:32 The, just the, the whip into it. He is so good, man. He was so fucking good.

Kelly Slater 11:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:38 And he would always do it left, left hook to the body and then right leg kick afterwards.

Kelly Slater 11:44 Uh, Ricardo Arona's a buddy of mine.

Joe Rogan 11:46 Oh, you know Ricardo?

Kelly Slater 11:47 I know Ricardo pretty well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:49 Oh, wow.

Kelly Slater 11:49 Um-

Joe Rogan 11:49 Is he a surfer?

Kelly Slater 11:49 Yeah, he surfs.

Joe Rogan 11:50 A lot of Brazilian surf.

Kelly Slater 11:51 Yeah, most of these guys surf, man.

Joe Rogan 11:52 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 11:53 But, um, who did he kick? Rampage or somebody in the lower leg, like, I think, or Wanderlei. I don't know, back in the Pride days.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 12:00 And, uh, I, I think he killed, broke someone's lower leg or something, ankle.

Joe Rogan 12:03 Oh, sure.

Kelly Slater 12:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:04 He was the victim of the worst slam I've ever seen-

Kelly Slater 12:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:08 ... in my life.

Kelly Slater 12:09 Well, he told me. He's like, "I don't know why I didn't grab the leg."

Joe Rogan 12:11 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 12:11 And y-... the, the thing I didn't realize, 'cause I had watched the fight before and I didn't pick this up, I wasn't very well-versed at that time in watching fights, but he goes, he goes, "Kelly, you know, the thing was, I put him to sleep in the fight before that. And I let him go and-"

Joe Rogan 12:26 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 12:26 ... "I told the ref, 'He's sleeping, he's sleeping.'"

Joe Rogan 12:28 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 12:28 And he goes, and then he woke back up and the ref kind of, you could-

Joe Rogan 12:32 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 12:32 ... when you go watch it, and the ref touched him and goes, "Okay, keep fighting."

Joe Rogan 12:34 Yeah, what did he catch him with, a triangle or something like that earlier?

Kelly Slater 12:36 He caught him with some kind of a tri... Yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 12:38 I don't remember.

Kelly Slater 12:38 No, it wasn't a triangle. It was a-

Joe Rogan 12:40 Guillotine or something?

Kelly Slater 12:41 Might've been a guillotine. They were on the ground.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 12:43 So, um-

Joe Rogan 12:44 Yeah, he like, or maybe knocked him out. Might've been like-

Kelly Slater 12:47 No, I think, I thought he put him to sleep with something. I don't know if it was or not.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Oh.

Kelly Slater 12:50 Anyways.

Joe Rogan 12:51 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 12:51 I could probably pull it up.

Joe Rogan 12:51 But then Rampage woke up.

Kelly Slater 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:53 And then kept fighting.

Kelly Slater 12:54 And the ref's like-

Joe Rogan 12:55 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 12:55 ... "Oh, go ahead." (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 12:56 Yeah. Well, Pride was crazy.

Kelly Slater 12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:57 They would've let you fight to the death. If-

Kelly Slater 12:59 I went to a, was it a K-1? I watched Kid Yamamoto and, and Hoiler fight.

Joe Rogan 13:04 Oh, wow.

Kelly Slater 13:05 And, uh, you know, I, I had run into Hoist the night before, I just saw him at a bar. And he's like, "Hey, what's up?" And I'm like, "Oh, I'm leaving. I'm gonna g- fly out tomorrow." He goes, "No, you gotta come to my brother's fight." So I went to the fight and then Hoiler got knocked out, man. It was, it was hard to watch.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Who did he fight?

Kelly Slater 13:20 Kid.

Joe Rogan 13:20 Hoiler fought Kid Yamamoto?

Kelly Slater 13:21 Kid, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Oh, that's right. That's when Hoiler was trying-

Kelly Slater 13:23 2005.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Yeah, he was getting involved in MMA and he really didn't have any striking.

Kelly Slater 13:28 Yeah, he, he was out cold for a couple minutes. I was like, phew-

Joe Rogan 13:31 Did they just offer him a shitload of money? Like, why did he decide to take that?

Kelly Slater 13:34 I don't know. I, I, I, I had never met Hoiler at the time.

Joe Rogan 13:37 He fought a, he fought a bunch of people. He fought Sakuraba, which is really crazy. And Sakuraba had him in a Kimura with his arm way behind his back and they stopped the fight rather than let him get his arm broken.

Kelly Slater 13:48 Yeah, 'cause he wasn't tapping. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Yeah. But he was like, "I'm really flexible. Like, I wasn't gonna tap."

Kelly Slater 13:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:54 Like, "I can, I can do that."

Kelly Slater 13:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:57 But, yeah.

Kelly Slater 13:57 I see some of these yogis. I follow this guy, this yogi guy, and I think... God, this guy named, uh, Gokula Condra or something. And he, he, um, he puts these poses up and I think, "If this guy did jujitsu, there's no way somebody could tap him out." 'Cause he-

Joe Rogan 14:12 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 14:13 ... he's doing these, the craziest... I don't know how you put your... I've never seen somebody put their body in these contortionist positions. And you just wonder if somebody who's a real true contortionist, if they knew jujitsu and how to escape things, if they could ever really get tapped-

Joe Rogan 14:26 Well-

Kelly Slater 14:27 ... with, like, arms. I'm sure necks or guillotines or whatever, but...

Joe Rogan 14:30 What do you got here, Jimmy?

Narrator 14:31 This is Ray.

Joe Rogan 14:31 Oh, there was a guy... I thought you were showing us something. There's a guy named Ray who was... Oh, Jesus.

Kelly Slater 14:35 This guy. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:36 This, look at this guy. Wow, that's insane.

Kelly Slater 14:38 Wait, is... Did you follow this guy?

Narrator 14:39 No, I just found him.

Kelly Slater 14:40 Yeah, he's-

Joe Rogan 14:40 Oh, my God. That's insane.

Kelly Slater 14:41 Well, he does these poses where he's, he's balancing on his elbow and he's... And then the rest of his body's in these poses. It's insane.

Joe Rogan 14:48 Wow.

Kelly Slater 14:48 These hand poses and stuff.

Joe Rogan 14:49 Look at that one in the... Go above that, right there on the right.

Kelly Slater 14:52 To the right?

Joe Rogan 14:52 The far right, Jimmy.

Kelly Slater 14:53 That thing, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:54 Yeah, that one. When he's on one hand.

Kelly Slater 14:56 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 14:57 That's-

Kelly Slater 14:58 It's insane.

Joe Rogan 14:58 ... fucking nuts, man.

Kelly Slater 14:59 Yeah, this kind of stuff. And the strength and the, the amount of time you gotta take to learn these things, it's like, it's... I mean, that's a m- sort of a martial art in itself.

Joe Rogan 15:09 Oh, yeah. Well, y- y- um, there's a guy who's, uh, uh, a famous jujitsu guy who once said that yoga is a martial art that you do against yourself.

Kelly Slater 15:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:19 That's how-

Kelly Slater 15:20 Great quote.

Joe Rogan 15:20 ... I quote it. There's a... My friend Ray is a, uh, he was a lead singer of a band, Ray Capo. He was a, a lead singer of, uh, some punk band and then became a yogi.

Kelly Slater 15:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:32 Yeah. And, uh, we used to call him Yoga Ray. And, uh, he would, uh, come to Tenth Planet and he would just... He could move in ways, like, "What the fuck are you doing, man?"

Kelly Slater 15:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:41 Like, his, his body was so... He had so much dexterity and flexibility, it was impossible to, like, hold him in positions.

Kelly Slater 15:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Like, he just could move so well.

Kelly Slater 15:51 So, like, "Wait, you're two belts below me, but I can't pin you?"

Joe Rogan 15:54 Well, he was-

Kelly Slater 15:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:55 ... actually a very high b- ranking guy too.

Kelly Slater 15:57 Oh, was he?

Joe Rogan 15:57 He was really good at jujitsu.

Kelly Slater 15:58 Well, that's scary too, right?

Joe Rogan 15:58 And on top of that, he had this crazy yo... And he also had amazing, uh, breath work.

Kelly Slater 16:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:05 Like, he, he would, he never got tired. Like, his cardio was incredible. But it was all because of his, his breathing techniques.

Kelly Slater 16:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:12 You know?

Kelly Slater 16:12 Hixon, Hickson would work on a lot of breathing stuff.

Joe Rogan 16:14 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 16:14 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:15 Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Slater 16:15 He was o... Like, I've, I've, uh, I've known Hickson quite a long time and he always talks about that, you know? When you breathe through your nose and how you calm your heart into-

Joe Rogan 16:23 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 16:24 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:24 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 16:24 The-

Joe Rogan 16:24 Panic breathing through your mouth is what they would call it.

Kelly Slater 16:27 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:27 You know, when you panic breathe, you know?

Kelly Slater 16:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:29 You know, most people when they're tired just like, (pants) but he was always about control, controlling your breath-

Kelly Slater 16:34 Yeah, and going... And he was like, you know, prior to Wim doing his thing and becoming sort of well known, he w- you know, Hickson would go sit in cold s... You know, ice cold streams-

Joe Rogan 16:43 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 16:43 ... and (inhales) just breathe-

Joe Rogan 16:44 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 16:44 ... real calm through the nose and control the, you know, temperature, whatever.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Yeah, that's in that movie Choke. He's in a glacial river.

Kelly Slater 16:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:50 And he's just sitting, like, neck deep.

Kelly Slater 16:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:53 And, and everybody else just dips their foot and then like, "Fuck this."

Kelly Slater 16:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:56 And he's in there-

Kelly Slater 16:57 He's like, oh.

Joe Rogan 16:57 ... freezing cold water just, mmm.

Kelly Slater 16:58 Loving it.

Joe Rogan 17:00 Yeah, he was a fascinating guy. And he's really the first guy that sort of introduced martial artists to the power of yoga.

Kelly Slater 17:08 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:08 Because he was the best.

Kelly Slater 17:09 That stomach work-

Joe Rogan 17:11 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 17:11 ... he can do, you know? (gags)

Joe Rogan 17:11 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 17:12 And it's like-

Joe Rogan 17:13 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 17:13 ... freaky.

Joe Rogan 17:14 It's crazy.

Kelly Slater 17:14 Yeah. It's real freaky if you-

Joe Rogan 17:15 Yeah. I've seen people do that-

Kelly Slater 17:16 Have you, have you watched those videos?

Joe Rogan 17:17 ... in real life.

Kelly Slater 17:17 Yeah, we've-

Joe Rogan 17:17 You know?

Kelly Slater 17:17 ... played that.

Joe Rogan 17:18 It's insane.

Kelly Slater 17:18 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 17:18 It's from the movie Choke. What is that called? Uh, fire breathing or something like... Breath of fire? There's like a, a word for that kind of breathing. You suck your stomach in.

Kelly Slater 17:26 It's probably more specific 'cause sometimes you, you'll go to a class and they'll go, "Okay, breath of fire."

Joe Rogan 17:31 Right, that's just like that.

Kelly Slater 17:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:32 But, yet his... He, he could pull his stomach in and move it side to side in some weird way.

Kelly Slater 17:37 Yeah, he said like he could use every muscle in his body individually.

Joe Rogan 17:41 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 17:41 Like, move it independent of other muscles. That's a weird one.

Joe Rogan 17:45 He also loved surfing.

Kelly Slater 17:47 Loved surfing.

Joe Rogan 17:47 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 17:48 I've, I've given boards to Hickson for a long time.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Really?

Kelly Slater 17:50 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:51 Oh, that's so cool.

Kelly Slater 17:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:52 That's amazing how many jujitsu guys love surfing.

Kelly Slater 17:56 Yeah. There's... It endless.

Joe Rogan 17:57 Is it just because of Rio and Rio is like-

Kelly Slater 18:00 On the beach, you know?

Joe Rogan 18:01 ... sort of the surf place?

Kelly Slater 18:02 Yeah, it's like it's, it... They all sort of did jujitsu and, and sort of played soccer-

Joe Rogan 18:07 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 18:07 ... and surfed. They're all on the beach, so they're kind of doing these things and some volleyball-

Joe Rogan 18:10 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 18:10 ... with their feet, whatever you call that thing.

Joe Rogan 18:12 Right, right, right.

Kelly Slater 18:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:13 What is that?

Kelly Slater 18:13 I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:15 (laughs) I just-

Kelly Slater 18:15 But the slams are sick.

Joe Rogan 18:16 It's crazy.

Kelly Slater 18:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:17 I posted a video of these guys in Thailand that were doing that. They were playing s... Like, volleyball, a version of volleyball with their feet.

Kelly Slater 18:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:25 And it's fucking wild, man.

Kelly Slater 18:27 Yeah, it's like the ultimate hacky sack, man.

Joe Rogan 18:28 Yeah, it's the craziest shit. Like, the dexterity they have with their feet, where they're whacking the ball over... And then the other guy on the other side is whacking it back and-

Kelly Slater 18:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:36 ... it's like they're catching it with their foot. Oh, look at this.

Kelly Slater 18:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:39 Whoa.

Kelly Slater 18:39 Look at the angles they get.

Joe Rogan 18:41 ... yeah. I mean, the flexibility too. And these guys are really close to each other too.

Kelly Slater 18:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 That's-

Kelly Slater 18:48 There must be some good fails, like kicks in the face. Right?

Joe Rogan 18:51 Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure there's a lot of that.

Kelly Slater 18:53 What's it called? Uh, Asian games...

Joe Rogan 18:56 This is Koreans.

Kelly Slater 18:57 Sir-

Joe Rogan 18:58 Boom.

Kelly Slater 18:58 ... Sarak Takraw?

Narrator 18:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:00 Look at that kick.

Kelly Slater 19:01 Sarak Takraw. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:01 Oh my God, that's insane. And then you have to fall on your hands. And I hope you don't break your wrists.

Kelly Slater 19:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:06 I mean, you're falling from like five, six feet up.

Kelly Slater 19:07 I wonder if they got kind of a padded, uh, floor, like a mat on a dojo.

Joe Rogan 19:12 This is pretty impressive stuff. But Jamie, see if you find that video that I posted on my Instagram page. I reposted somebody else posting it, and it, it's fucking bananas, because these guys are using this like little shitty ball in the jungle.

Kelly Slater 19:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:25 And just the ability that they have with their feet is just out of this world.

Kelly Slater 19:29 You ever hear of a guy named, um, Sir Donald Brat- uh, oh gosh, I'm even forget his name. Bradman, I believe it was. He's the best cricket player of all time.

Joe Rogan 19:39 No.

Kelly Slater 19:39 Best cricketer of all time. So he grew up in Australia, kind of in the Outback, and he, he... I guess from what I heard, there wasn't many people around, and he used to play... Uh, he would take a stick, just a random stick, and he would hit a ball against a corrugated curved, uh, wall.

Joe Rogan 19:54 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 19:55 Yeah, a corrugated aluminum, you know, one of those kind of bended walls, and um, they use for roofing. And uh, so the ball would just bounce off at all these different angles. And uh, his, his hand-eye coordination became like, you know, as good as you could possibly ever have, 'cause it was like his fun thing to do...

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah, here it is watch the... Check these guys out. Look at this crazy shit.

Kelly Slater 20:17 I saw you post this, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:18 Look at this, look at this. And they're-

Kelly Slater 20:19 Off the head.

Joe Rogan 20:19 ... I mean, and it looks like these perfect shots, but they keep firing it back at each other.

Kelly Slater 20:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:25 Look at that.

Kelly Slater 20:26 Off the head.

Joe Rogan 20:26 Fucking madness.

Kelly Slater 20:27 And it sounds hard, it sounds like a coconut or something, no?

Joe Rogan 20:29 Yeah. Right, it sounds like they made it out of like, like a rock and some fucking duct tape.

Kelly Slater 20:34 Oh, how was that one?

Joe Rogan 20:34 It's fucking insane. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 20:34 How was that kick? That was a straight up martial arts kick.

Joe Rogan 20:36 It's insane. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 20:37 That was a forward... That was like a push kick.

Joe Rogan 20:39 A push kick-

Kelly Slater 20:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:40 ... but a roundhouse kick at the same time, like a push crescent kick.

Kelly Slater 20:44 (clears throat) Has this guy...

Narrator 20:46 He's going ahead, huh.

Joe Rogan 20:47 I mean...

Kelly Slater 20:48 Oh, and the block.

Joe Rogan 20:50 If you can get good at doing that, I guess it is Thai, because those are Thai writing, but if you could get good at that, man, I mean, there's certain guys that just... When you see them in Muay Thai, they have... Oh, that's what it's called, yeah.

Kelly Slater 21:01 Burmese.

Joe Rogan 21:02 Sepak takraw. It's Burmese. Oh, okay. Soccer and volleyball put together. Yeah, those guys would be awesome fighters. There's certain guys that have just insane leg dexterity-

Kelly Slater 21:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:13 ... that you see in martial arts, like... Do you know who Saenchai is? You ever see Saenchai fight?

Kelly Slater 21:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:17 Yeah. Saenchai's-

Kelly Slater 21:18 His leg kicks would be...

Joe Rogan 21:19 ... insane.

Kelly Slater 21:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Well, his... Everything. He's, he's... There's a famous highlight reel of him where he throws this like fake knee off the right, and then jumping roundhouse kicks this guy in the face and KOs him with his left.

Kelly Slater 21:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:31 And it's just the, the ability that he has to place his foot like anywhere he wants.

Kelly Slater 21:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:37 His dexterity is just out of this world.

Kelly Slater 21:38 Yeah, his uh, range would just be otherworldly, right?

Joe Rogan 21:42 Yeah. Well, that's... I mean, there's just a lot... There, there he is. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 21:45 Oh, yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 21:46 That's not Saenchai.

Kelly Slater 21:47 No, that's a younger guy. And he was... Saenchai was talking about... Um, they were asking about Conor, fighting Conor. You ever see that thing?

Joe Rogan 21:54 Yeah. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 21:55 And he's like, "No, I'd kill this guy."

Joe Rogan 21:56 (laughs) Fuck him up. You would fuck him up so bad.

Kelly Slater 21:59 Like, he'd probably let it go, "Okay, kick me a few times, and then let's trade. Let's trade a couple."

Joe Rogan 22:02 Well, he's so hard to hit too. Saenchai is just so elusive. He-

Kelly Slater 22:06 Why wouldn't someone like him end up in a UFC fight pit?

Joe Rogan 22:08 Because he doesn't know how to fight on the ground. I mean, that's all it is. It's just-

Kelly Slater 22:11 But wouldn't they just pin him with another standup guy?

Joe Rogan 22:14 Uh, if they were smart, yeah, that would be the, the smart t- thing to do. But I mean, you know-

Kelly Slater 22:19 I mean, you're not gonna put CM Punk against another ground guy, are you? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:22 Right. Well, CM Punk.

Kelly Slater 22:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:24 Yeah, that's... That would be a disaster. CM Punk, that whole thing was... Everybody's like, "I could do it." You know, you watch CM Punk, you're like, "Fuck, I'll fucking fight." Like, they won't give you those fights.

Kelly Slater 22:32 Well, I guarantee you CM Punk is... CM Punk's probably a lot tougher than the average guy anyway. I mean, I don't know. I don't know fighting. But you know-

Joe Rogan 22:40 Not even the average fighter.

Kelly Slater 22:41 No, not the average fighter.

Joe Rogan 22:42 He's-

Kelly Slater 22:42 But maybe the average guy in a bar, right?

Joe Rogan 22:44 CM Punk is a real nice guy, and I don't want to say anything bad about him, because I mean, the guy gave it his all.

Kelly Slater 22:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:49 He really did.

Kelly Slater 22:50 Totally, totally dedicated.

Joe Rogan 22:51 Not a, not a bad guy.

Kelly Slater 22:52 And he, and he ate some humble pie-

Joe Rogan 22:53 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 22:53 ... and he was totally cool about it.

Joe Rogan 22:54 He was. And he was cool about it the first time, and he was cool about it the second time.

Kelly Slater 22:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 He's a real good guy. But he doesn't have what I would call talent.

Kelly Slater 23:02 Yeah, the skill.

Joe Rogan 23:03 But... It's just moves wrong.

Kelly Slater 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 It's just, he doesn't-

Kelly Slater 23:06 You can see him against a Micky Gall, he came in and just went uh, you know, over the top.

Joe Rogan 23:09 Mickey-

Kelly Slater 23:09 And he was probably so nervous too, never being in that situation of a real fight.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 23:14 I mean, he's been in front of the crowds, but-

Joe Rogan 23:16 That was a nightmare. That Micky Gall fight was so ridiculous. Micky Gall is fucking good.

Kelly Slater 23:21 He's really good.

Joe Rogan 23:21 He's fucking good.

Kelly Slater 23:22 He's dangerous.

Joe Rogan 23:23 And to have a guy like CM Punk that doesn't have a back... It's not like Brock Lesnar. Like, Brock Lesnar came into the UFC, he was a national champion-

Kelly Slater 23:30 Like, crazy skill, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:30 ... as a wrestler. He's a fucking gorilla as a human being, just a freak athlete.

Kelly Slater 23:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:35 CM Punk is a regular guy.

Kelly Slater 23:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Like, he's not... There's nothing freaky about him. He doesn't have crazy power or weird speed.

Kelly Slater 23:42 You don't see him and go, "That guy looks super scary."

Joe Rogan 23:44 Right, right.

Kelly Slater 23:45 For a guy his size or anything.

Joe Rogan 23:46 Right. Well, I mean, there's guys that don't look... Like Saenchai himself does not look like a freak, if you've seen-

Kelly Slater 23:52 That guy is freaky though.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Yeah, he's so freaky.

Kelly Slater 23:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:54 But when you see him, he looks pretty... He looks like an athlete, but he doesn't look like, you know... It's not like Roy Jones Jr in his prime-

Kelly Slater 24:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:00 ... or something, when you see him and you just go, "Jesus, look at this fucking guy."

Kelly Slater 24:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:03 He was just... I mean, he's just so good. But a guy like CM Punk, he didn't have a background, and he tried martial arts when he was like 36.

Kelly Slater 24:12 Oh, so he had no background-

Joe Rogan 24:13 Not really.

Kelly Slater 24:14 ... in the... even wrestling background?

Joe Rogan 24:16 No, he didn't even wrestle.

Kelly Slater 24:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:17 It was all theatrical wrestling.

Kelly Slater 24:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:19 It was all entertainment, you know.

Kelly Slater 24:21 You would think though that those guys would... Even- even the theatrical wrestling, they would go and work on the skill like day in, day out. I mean, that's all you have to be as a wrestler, right?

Joe Rogan 24:30 Yeah, but this is such a difference between working on the skill day in, day out, and then working on the skill when someone doesn't want you to do it to them.

Kelly Slater 24:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:36 That's the thing.

Kelly Slater 24:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:36 And then when they're trying to do things to you, like just fucking you up.

Kelly Slater 24:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:40 And there's nothing you can do about it. Like, you really-

Kelly Slater 24:42 Yeah, and your- and your mouth breathing.

Joe Rogan 24:44 Your mouth (laughs) , your mouth breathing.

Kelly Slater 24:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:46 Yeah, everything's wrong.

Kelly Slater 24:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:47 But I mean, I'm sure he made a ton of money, and he, you know, he tested himself. The guy...

Kelly Slater 24:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:52 I mean, give the guy some credit. He t- he really did test himself.

Kelly Slater 24:54 Yeah. I think it was a- a- a good thing for-

Joe Rogan 24:58 ... for people to see.

Kelly Slater 24:59 Dana- Dana and everyone to see, too. Like, oh, okay, we're not going to do that.

Joe Rogan 25:02 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 25:02 Let's-

Joe Rogan 25:02 Right.

Kelly Slater 25:03 ... let's not put-

Joe Rogan 25:04 Like, they said-

Kelly Slater 25:04 ... let's not put someone in that position. Let's not put ourselves in that position.

Joe Rogan 25:07 But they were talking about, like, Logan Paul, like, Logan Paul fighting in the UFC. And they were like-

Kelly Slater 25:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:11 ... "Logan Paul would get killed." Logan Paul is fucking way better, way better than CM Punk.

Kelly Slater 25:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:18 Logan Paul, like, actually knows how to fight.

Kelly Slater 25:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:21 He had a boxing match with that other YouTube guy.

Kelly Slater 25:23 I saw that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:23 But I was watching him throw punches in that fight. I'm like, "This is a guy who actually knows how to punch."

Kelly Slater 25:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:29 Like his punches look good. He g- he gassed out. He got a little tired, first real fight like that, but he has a background in wrestling. And he, he actually can punch.

Kelly Slater 25:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:38 Like, I was watching him punch this guy. I was like, "That's a guy who actually knows how to throw punches." He know- he knows how to... He knows distance and timing. He knows how to connect, and he doesn't look like Canelo Alvarez or anything crazy. But he looks like a guy who can actually punch-

Kelly Slater 25:51 Well, you can give him a break on that part.

Joe Rogan 25:52 But Dana's like, "You know, have him fight in the UFC, it would be... He would get killed." Like, you had fucking CM Punk fight. This guy is way better than him. He really has a background in fighting.

Kelly Slater 26:02 How d- how does that dynamic work for- with you and Dana, um, where... You know, with something like that, that, that could be seen if somebody's a little triggered or a little sensitive, they might get a little bit, like, angry at you saying something like that. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 26:16 Nah, Dana's the-

Kelly Slater 26:16 It's nothing.

Joe Rogan 26:17 ... easiestgoing guy ever-

Kelly Slater 26:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:18 ... with that kind of shit.

Kelly Slater 26:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:19 He doesn't give a fuck. He, he... Look, me and him have been friends for (exhales) like, almost 20 years.

Kelly Slater 26:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:28 We've been friends for a long time.

Kelly Slater 26:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:30 And I've been working for the UFC... I mean, I started working for the old company in '97.

Kelly Slater 26:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:34 I started working for the n-

Kelly Slater 26:35 Wow, that long ago?

Joe Rogan 26:36 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 26:36 Jeez.

Joe Rogan 26:37 And then the new company, I started working for them in 2002. And I was friends with Dana before that.

Kelly Slater 26:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:43 It's just... He, he knows my heart's in the right place. But he also knows that if I wasn't honest, nobody-

Kelly Slater 26:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:49 ... would listen to me.

Kelly Slater 26:50 Yeah, that's the thing I, I enjoy watching the fights and listening to... You're, you're critical in a fair way with people, I think. You know?

Joe Rogan 26:59 I try to be.

Kelly Slater 26:59 Yeah. When you-

Joe Rogan 27:00 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 27:00 When you critique what somebody's doing, it's like if they listen the right way, it's probably gonna help them.

Joe Rogan 27:06 Well, I definitely don't say things that... if I- I don't know what I'm talking about, and I don't say things that I don't mean.

Kelly Slater 27:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:12 You know? But if I see something and I've watched... I mean, I've called at least a thousand fights. I don't know how many fights-

Kelly Slater 27:18 More.

Joe Rogan 27:18 Probably more. Yeah.

Kelly Slater 27:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 And I've seen some of the greatest fights of all time up live-

Kelly Slater 27:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:25 ... in close, right, right next to the cage, you know?

Kelly Slater 27:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:28 I've seen a lot of shit. So if I'm saying something, it's probably because it's right or I mean it.

Kelly Slater 27:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:35 But if I don't know what I'm talking about, like, it's one of the good things about having Daniel Cormier there or Dominick Cruz. And if there's some aspect of fighting that maybe I'm not exactly sure about, I can defer to them.

Kelly Slater 27:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:45 And I could say, like, "W- what, what's so important about getting the underhook here?" You know? And then Cormier could go off about, like, why this... And then you, and you go, "Oh, okay, I- I get that. Okay, I see."

Kelly Slater 27:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:56 Like, that was a, a big thing in the fight with Stipe Miocic and Daniel Cormier. Dominick Cruz was ex- explaining how important it was that Cormier kept pummeling, he kept shifting positions and pummeling for underhooks. And that was one of the reasons why he was able to land that big right hand-

Kelly Slater 28:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:10 ... because he was never static outside of the clinch.

Kelly Slater 28:12 He also had to wear some to get in there too, didn't he?

Joe Rogan 28:14 Yes.

Kelly Slater 28:14 I mean, he was like-

Joe Rogan 28:15 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 28:15 ... right in Stipe's-

Joe Rogan 28:16 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 28:16 ... face and Stipe's like...

Joe Rogan 28:18 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 28:18 I mean, that was such a great match, even though obviously it didn't last very long, but-

Joe Rogan 28:22 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 28:22 I mean, he, he took a few on the chin real hard to get in there.

Joe Rogan 28:26 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 28:26 And, uh ...

Joe Rogan 28:27 For Stipe, that's got to drive him fucking crazy.

Kelly Slater 28:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:29 Like he's been tweeting a lot and-

Kelly Slater 28:31 Why, why wouldn't he get a straight re- a rematch straight away? I mean, th- there is even supposedly talk of McGregor getting a rematch when he got pretty much handled everywhere.

Joe Rogan 28:39 I don't think there's real talk of McGregor getting a rematch. I think the real smart money is on Tony Ferguson fighting Khabib next.

Kelly Slater 28:45 I hope that happens.

Joe Rogan 28:45 That's the smart money.

Kelly Slater 28:46 I really hope that happens.

Joe Rogan 28:47 I think... Dana's been saying that. I, I 100% believe that Tony Ferguson deserv-... I don't think Tony ser- Ferguson should have ever been stripped.

Kelly Slater 28:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:55 I think he should still be the interim champion. I mean, the guy fell while he was doing press and tore his knee apart.

Kelly Slater 29:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:00 Six months later, comes back and destroys Anthony Pettis in a spectacular performance.

Kelly Slater 29:05 What a fight.

Joe Rogan 29:06 Whoo.

Kelly Slater 29:06 But Pettis was great too.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Fuck yeah, he was. Yeah.

Kelly Slater 29:08 But he just-

Joe Rogan 29:08 He clipped him. You heard him.

Kelly Slater 29:09 Tony's just, Tony's just a warrior. I mean, his, his cardio never runs out. He throws weird stuff with everything-

Joe Rogan 29:16 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 29:16 ... you can throw. You don't know what's coming.

Joe Rogan 29:17 He apparently got upset that we called him a weirdo. Like, w- he's... I guess he's sensitive. He apparently got upset. I said he was a brilliant weirdo, like, when he was on his way to the cage. But I meant that 100% complimentary.

Kelly Slater 29:30 Yeah. I would-

Joe Rogan 29:31 The guy wears ankle weights at the weigh-ins.

Kelly Slater 29:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Like, I don't even know what... I mean, he uses-

Kelly Slater 29:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:35 ... a Wing Chun dummy.

Kelly Slater 29:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:36 He sets up his- all of his camp, like his training equipment-

Kelly Slater 29:39 So it's just-

Joe Rogan 29:40 ... he sets it up himself.

Kelly Slater 29:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:41 He, he puts the mats down. He builds his own, like, heavy bag hangers. He puts, he puts up, like, chin-up bars, all that shit. He does it himself. He's like, he does construction.

Kelly Slater 29:49 And I think weirdo sounds like it, it's unfamiliar to the average training regimen.

Joe Rogan 29:52 Yes. That's what I meant.

Kelly Slater 29:53 And that's all-

Joe Rogan 29:53 I meant it complimentarily. I'm a huge fan of that guy.

Kelly Slater 29:56 I am too. I think-

Joe Rogan 29:56 But, uh-

Kelly Slater 29:56 I think he's awesome.

Joe Rogan 29:57 I also think that he is the toughest test for Khabib...

Kelly Slater 30:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:00 ... because of his cardio and because of his versatility 'cause he could fight really well off his back. I mean, he submitted Kevin Lee off his back to win the title.

Kelly Slater 30:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:08 He's got a fantastic darce choke and his ability to hold guys in his guard and recover if he gets clipped. I mean, he's, he's the most dangerous guy at lightweight for Khabib, I think-

Kelly Slater 30:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:21 ... in my opinion.

Kelly Slater 30:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:22 He just never gets fucking tired. It doesn't even make sense.

Kelly Slater 30:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:25 And, and Eddy, you know, Eddy trains him. He's one of Eddy's, um, students.

Kelly Slater 30:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:28 Eddy says he's never seen anything like it. He said this guy workouts six hours a day, full clip. Everybody else is exhausted. He keeps going. They're doing sprints up the hill. Tony laps everybody, keeps going.

Kelly Slater 30:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:39 His cardio's off the charts.

Kelly Slater 30:42 Yeah, it's freaky.

Joe Rogan 30:42 I wonder if that's a Mexican thing too. I think there's a lot of Mexicans that have amazing cardio. I really do.

Kelly Slater 30:47 The Mayans, right?

Joe Rogan 30:48 I don't know what it is, man. I mean, if it's a running thing, for sure, but, I mean, if you go back to, like, Julio Cesar Chavez-

Kelly Slater 30:55 Maybe he eats, eats tons of maca. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:56 (laughs) Maybe. I think... I mean, uh, Gilbert Melendez said that once too, that it's a Mexican thing, this cardio, 'cause Gilbert's always been known for his crazy cardio.

Kelly Slater 31:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:05 I really wonder if there's, like, certain ethnicities that have, uh, an advantage or at least a, a better starting point and then it's all hard work from there.

Kelly Slater 31:13 Yeah, there must... Maybe there's some genetic thing you can prove from the way the blood holds oxygen or something.

Joe Rogan 31:18 Diego Sanchez, he's another one.

Kelly Slater 31:19 Diego, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Insane cardio. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, it's, uh...It's a, it's a fun thing to think about. I mean, you- you go, like, you go back to boxing in particular. I mean, how many great boxers had fantastic cardio from Mexico? You know?

Kelly Slater 31:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:36 Chavez in particular, Julio Cesar Chavez would just wear guys down.

Kelly Slater 31:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:40 The volume of his punching. It would just never stop.

Kelly Slater 31:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:43 Just constantly on you, constantly moving forward, bobbing and weaving and throwing shots and-

Kelly Slater 31:47 And sometimes as an athlete, like if you're a boxer, you'd have to... Even if you didn't have that, you'd have to dig deep and pretend you had that.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 31:54 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 31:55 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 31:55 'Cause that starts wearing on the other guy. Like, "This guy's never gonna-"

Joe Rogan 31:57 Pressure.

Kelly Slater 31:58 "... fucking stop." You know?

Joe Rogan 31:59 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 31:59 Like I- I had a, uh, I had a situation once. I was super winded, I was really tired in a, in a heat surfing against a guy in Tahiti. And, uh, this- this heat ended up sort of being like a world title heat for me. And, um, I was losing with like two minutes to go and I ended up in this paddle battle against a guy. And he's a good paddler and pretty fit guy. And we're like head-to-head. And what happens, we- whoever gets back out first, deemed by the judges, gets priority over the next wave. They can have-

Joe Rogan 32:28 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 32:28 ... whatever wave they want. And with two minutes, three minutes left in a heat surfing, there's... That's not a lot of time to get a wave. If a- if the wave comes, you gotta be the guy that has priority for it. And we're paddling, and I could feel him just for half a second kind of let up on his paddle. Like, "Okay, I'm getting ahead on this guy." And as soon as he did, I paddled harder. And I was like, I... You know, to show him like, "I got more." And he gave up and I got it.

Joe Rogan 32:51 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 32:51 And then I got... Then I needed like a- a... You know, we score out of 10 points and I needed like a nine. I got like a 9.4 with 30 seconds to go or something.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Wow.

Kelly Slater 32:58 It was just... But it was... I- I didn't have that in me, like physically. I was like, "I want to quit too." You know?

Joe Rogan 33:04 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 33:04 But I was like, "I gotta poker face this guy-"

Joe Rogan 33:06 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 33:06 "... and make him think I got more." You know? And I- I really didn't. It was just that choice. Like, "I don't care. I'm gonna get out there with the lungs burning and I'll feel bad for 30 seconds." Whatever.

Joe Rogan 33:14 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 33:14 You know? But sometimes you... I would imagine boxers pr- try or- or MMA guys-

Joe Rogan 33:19 For sure.

Kelly Slater 33:20 I don't know. Sometimes you can't bluff that, but-

Joe Rogan 33:22 Right.

Kelly Slater 33:22 ... you gotta-

Joe Rogan 33:22 Sometimes you can't bluff it, but yeah, for sure, it does come up where there's an edge one way or the other.

Kelly Slater 33:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:28 That's a big thing with Ferguson, that pressure that he puts on guys.

Kelly Slater 33:31 Yeah. He just never gets slo- You know, uh, i- if you watch the Gustafsson, uh, Jon Jones fight too, Jon late in that fight di- di-... You know, there could have been some doubts from people who's winning that fight or whatever.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 33:42 It was a close fight. But looked like Jon just started pouring it-

Joe Rogan 33:46 He was dug in.

Kelly Slater 33:46 It was three to one-

Joe Rogan 33:48 Dug deep. Yep.

Kelly Slater 33:48 ... strikes-

Joe Rogan 33:49 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 33:49 ... in the last couple rounds. You know?

Joe Rogan 33:50 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 33:51 And-

Joe Rogan 33:51 The last rounds won him that fight.

Kelly Slater 33:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:53 And by all accounts, Jon wasn't in shape.

Kelly Slater 33:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:56 By all accounts, Jon really didn't train for that fight and didn't take Gustafsson seriously and kind of half-assed his training camp and still pulled it off in the championship rounds.

Kelly Slater 34:04 That guy is-

Joe Rogan 34:05 And-

Kelly Slater 34:05 ... unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 34:06 And they're gonna rematch. That's a-

Kelly Slater 34:08 They are, right?

Joe Rogan 34:08 Yeah. That's a big-

Kelly Slater 34:09 January?

Joe Rogan 34:09 Yep. The, uh, December card, it's January, New Year's Eve.

Kelly Slater 34:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:13 You know, basically. I think it's the-

Kelly Slater 34:14 December 29th, I think, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:15 ... 29th? Is that what it is? Fantastic fight. And 'cause I think Gustafsson's way better now. You see when Gustafsson knocked out Glover Teixeira, I mean, he just looked like... That was like a video game combination.

Kelly Slater 34:25 It was brutal.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yeah. So I think that fight is, uh, that's- that's gonna be one for the ages. And that...

Kelly Slater 34:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:30 For Jon to be his comeback fight and for Gustafsson to be the rematch that he's asking for forever and it will be for the light heavyweight title. They're gonna strip Cormier.

Kelly Slater 34:38 Are they?

Joe Rogan 34:39 Yeah. Yeah. It's a-

Kelly Slater 34:39 Oh, yeah, well, 'cause he's gonna fight heavyweight, isn't he?

Joe Rogan 34:41 Yeah. I mean, he's gonna f- he's fighting Derrick Lewis in December.

Kelly Slater 34:44 Is that a weird fight?

Joe Rogan 34:46 Well, he's number two.

Kelly Slater 34:47 I'm a fan.

Joe Rogan 34:47 He's number two.

Kelly Slater 34:47 Obviously.

Joe Rogan 34:48 I mean, he's... If you look at the rankings, it's not. If you look at Derrick Lewis is obviously unorthodox and-

Kelly Slater 34:54 But he was- he was just getting mauled in that last fight.

Joe Rogan 34:57 It doesn't matter when you win.

Kelly Slater 34:58 And he got... I guess it didn't matter when he get that last punch into the-

Joe Rogan 35:01 Well, it's still... The power that he has can change-

Kelly Slater 35:03 And I'm not talking... That guy would murder me-

Joe Rogan 35:05 ... the course of every fight.

Kelly Slater 35:05 ... with his finger. You know? Like, why am I ev- why am I even talking about this?

Joe Rogan 35:08 Well, he's the number two contender.

Kelly Slater 35:08 But I'm just a fan, you know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:10 I mean, he really was the number two contender headed into that fight. And then-

Kelly Slater 35:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:13 ... wins. I think that guy was the dark horse of the division.

Kelly Slater 35:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:17 And so for him to knock off Alexander like that, I mean, that's a de- that was a giant knockout.

Kelly Slater 35:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:22 And to get his ass kicked for three rounds.

Kelly Slater 35:24 Respect to- to Alexander though.

Joe Rogan 35:27 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 35:27 For- for staying in the pocket-

Joe Rogan 35:30 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 35:30 ... fighting out with 30 seconds to go when he's clearly winning that fight.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Well, he got hurt. He got hurt a couple times in that fight.

Kelly Slater 35:35 Did he just-

Joe Rogan 35:36 Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Slater 35:36 ... a little shoulder there?

Joe Rogan 35:36 There was one time where he lost his mouthpi- piece and he tried-

Kelly Slater 35:40 Oh, yeah. That's right.

Joe Rogan 35:40 ... to give it to Derrick.

Kelly Slater 35:40 Yeah, that's right.

Joe Rogan 35:41 He... I think he was on Queer Street. I didn't...

Kelly Slater 35:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:43 I don't think he knew what the fuck-

Kelly Slater 35:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:44 ... was going on 'cause Derrick hits so hard.

Kelly Slater 35:47 He does.

Joe Rogan 35:47 Even if you don't get knocked out, you're probably like, "Oh, Jesus."

Kelly Slater 35:49 Even a glancing blow, right?

Joe Rogan 35:50 Yeah. You're probably like, "What in the fuck?" I mean, think about the way he knocked out Travis Browne.

Kelly Slater 35:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:54 The way he knocked out Gonzaga. And Derrick would be even better if he didn't have a bad back. Derrick's got a fucked up back.

Kelly Slater 36:02 So why does he want to... That's three fights in six months or-

Joe Rogan 36:05 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 36:05 ... What was his last fight with Ngannou?

Joe Rogan 36:07 Um, well, he fought Ngannou-

Kelly Slater 36:10 That was a good one.

Joe Rogan 36:10 ... and that was the fight where it's just like, "What the fuck?" That was barely a fight. It was like five punches thrown the entire fight.

Kelly Slater 36:15 It's weird though as a- as a fan watching it, I felt-

Joe Rogan 36:17 There you go.

Kelly Slater 36:18 ... like-

Joe Rogan 36:18 You see one against Ngannou. Um-

Kelly Slater 36:21 July.

Joe Rogan 36:22 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 36:22 Yeah. But I- I- as a fan-

Joe Rogan 36:24 Volkov.

Kelly Slater 36:24 ... I f- Did you feel like that was more on Ngannou than it was on Derrick?

Joe Rogan 36:27 Yes.

Kelly Slater 36:27 I don't know. I- I always... I felt that way.

Joe Rogan 36:29 Well, Ngannou, um, didn't do anything.

Kelly Slater 36:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:32 And Derrick won. You know?

Kelly Slater 36:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:33 He didn't win by much, but I mean, he was basically waiting for Ngannou. You know, you gotta be careful with Ngannou 'cause Ngannou punches so fucking hard, but Stipe fucked that dude's head up.

Kelly Slater 36:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:44 He really did. Stipe just fucked his head up.

Kelly Slater 36:46 Yeah. He- he... Yeah. That was- that was a-

Joe Rogan 36:49 Nobody's even talking about Ngannou anymore. That's what's weird. Ngannou before the Stipe fight, everybody's like, "This is a section coming."

Kelly Slater 36:55 I was so excited for that thing.

Joe Rogan 36:56 Oh my God. When he knocked Alistair Overeem into another dimension, everybody was like, "Holy shit."

Kelly Slater 37:01 Yeah, that was- that was like... That looked like a career-ending punch.

Joe Rogan 37:05 It did.

Kelly Slater 37:05 That was like, "I'll break your neck with this thing."

Joe Rogan 37:07 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 37:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:07 Meanwhile, Overeem was ready to fight again. Didn't he fight again after that against Curtis Blaydes? I feel like he did. I feel like he fought Curtis Blaydes after that and lost.

Kelly Slater 37:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:16 And got stopped in that fight too.Yeah, I mean, look, Ngannou hits fucking hard.

Kelly Slater 37:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:23 Like harder than anybody has ever fought. I mean he's-

Kelly Slater 37:26 But not when he's mouth-breathing in the fifth round, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:28 It didn't, it, it didn't matter because he gassed himself out in the first and he really wasn't prepared for a full game.

Kelly Slater 37:33 He really didn't think he was going to go to the ground, from what I heard.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Yeah. I think, yeah.

Kelly Slater 37:35 He thought, you know, "I catch this guy." And whatever.

Joe Rogan 37:37 That's what I think he thought. I think he, he, he thought he hit so hard that Stipe was going to be in front of him, he was going to hit Stipe, he's going to be the heavyweight champ.

Kelly Slater 37:44 I was going to ask you, do you, do you have your absolute dream job? Between... Well, I, I mean, you do a few things, but like, you, you get to talk UFC, you're a black belt under Eddie. You, right?

Joe Rogan 37:55 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 37:55 And so, like, you've kind of found the perfect job for yourself.

Joe Rogan 37:59 It's a great job, yeah. It's a lot of fun.

Kelly Slater 38:00 'Cause you just... I can tell when you talk about, you just love it so much like I love surfing. You know, I just, I live, eat, and breathe surf. Every day I wake up and the first thing I do is look at where's the waves in the world? Where's, how do I I get to-

Joe Rogan 38:09 Do you think when you retire you'll do commentary?

Kelly Slater 38:11 Uh, maybe a little bit, yeah. Maybe a little bit. But I don't want to, I don't really want a job. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:17 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 38:17 I got, whenever I retire, you know, I've been, look, I've been, I've been on in pro tour pretty much since I was 19, I'm 46. I took about three years off, but I would still compete a little bit those years.

Joe Rogan 38:27 What are the, what is the high end of the age limit in terms of like-

Kelly Slater 38:30 46.

Joe Rogan 38:30 ... when a guy can really compete? Like right now with this sit?

Kelly Slater 38:33 No, I've, no one's ever been my age on tour.

Joe Rogan 38:34 Really?

Kelly Slater 38:35 Yeah. No, I think the next oldest guy on tour is 38 and he's retiring this year.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Wow.

Kelly Slater 38:40 When I've got on tour, the oldest guy was 28 years old.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Holy shit.

Kelly Slater 38:43 Yeah. It was like, there was a real... You know, there, i- I would say in, in the '80s, there wasn't like, it didn't look like... You could make some money and if you were a top five guy, but it didn't look like you could have like this crazy career. So guys weren't thinking longevity, they're like, "Let's go have a freaking good time."

Joe Rogan 38:58 Right.

Kelly Slater 38:58 "Travel around the world and get paid for it for a few years, and then we'll figure out a job after, or maybe we'll have enough money to kind of live real humbly."

Joe Rogan 39:05 What is the difference between how you prepare and other guys? Is it your diet? Strength and conditioning? Like, what is it?

Kelly Slater 39:11 Um, I don't overexert myself very much. So my, my training, aside from surfing, isn't a lot. Um, I retain, I feel like I retain enough strength to be good at what I need to. So to find-

Joe Rogan 39:24 So you don't burn yourself out.

Kelly Slater 39:25 I don't burn myself out. You know, 'cause like, I, the oldest people in the wor- world weren't athletes.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 39:31 You know, they're kind of people who didn't burn themselves out too much.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Right.

Kelly Slater 39:34 So I, my theory on longevity is like, don't overdo it. I don't know, need to necessarily be overtrained for what I do. A lot of the skill, a lot of the, the, the winning that I do competitively is from a skill. It's not so much from being super strong, having crazy cardio.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 39:51 It's making a choice about which wave, how I'm going to approach and ride that wave, and I have to get two scores every 30 minutes when I compete. So it's like I got this 30-minute window I need to be ready for. I don't need to be like in crazy, crazy shape, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 40:04 So what is it that held other guys back in the past?

Kelly Slater 40:06 I, I think there's a number of factors. I think, um, you have to naturally be really competitive, like in your, when you were born, in your home, somehow you had to, maybe you needed something to prove, you know. I, I was kind of like, you know, growing up, I, I sort of look back at it and kind of laugh, like I, maybe I couldn't get the girl I liked 'cause she liked an older guy. Or, you know, I didn't have-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Right.

Kelly Slater 40:28 We didn't really have any money in my family, so I wanted to make some money. I had an older brother who kind of picked on me, but I hung out with him and played football with his friends that were all three years older than me, so I had to be strong.

Joe Rogan 40:38 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 40:38 You know, I had to be tough and fast, I had to be smart. Um-

Joe Rogan 40:40 That's the case with a lot of guys, older brothers.

Kelly Slater 40:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:43 Older brothers that they couldn't really compete with, and like, "This motherfucker." And so every night-

Kelly Slater 40:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:47 ... it would just eat away at them.

Kelly Slater 40:48 Yeah. It would eat... I think it, I think it did. And there was always that, you know, my brother and I have a, I think we have a pretty good relationship now. And I don't think he would, um, disagree with me that we kind of didn't get along for 20 years or more.

Joe Rogan 41:00 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 41:01 (laughs) We sort of hate each other. You know?

Joe Rogan 41:02 That's a long time.

Kelly Slater 41:03 Yeah. But, you know, from the time we were teenagers, we kind of grew apart. You know, I, I sort of started doing real well competing on the world stage, and he sort of stagnated. And we just, you know, people in families have different, uh, dynamics. You know, each child has a different dynamic, whether the first, or the mi- I'm in the middle of three all boys. Our younger brother was three- six years younger than me, so he was kind of out of the loop. When we were teenagers, he's still a little kid. So we weren't really competing with him, but he saw us competing against each other in, in maybe a few ways. And it kind of turned him off to surfing. So he didn't start surfing till he was a teenager.

Joe Rogan 41:41 Oh, wow.

Kelly Slater 41:42 And, and when he did, he rode longboards. And we're all, we're both short boarders, like, you know, more, um, competition kind of guys. And he loved kind of the old throwback, the '60s and '70s surfers on longboards or on single fins, which is like not a modern board at all. And, um-

Joe Rogan 41:59 Why would someone choose one or the other?

Kelly Slater 42:01 Longboards or short boards?

Joe Rogan 42:02 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 42:02 It's a, it's a real different skill. Um, longboards are kind of easier to just get up and ride a wave. But the, the skill you have on a longboard is more, it's, it's more ballet than it is, uh, gym or something. You know? It's not like big maneuvers.

Joe Rogan 42:17 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 42:17 It's more like gliding on the wave, looking like you're not trying hard. It's, it's more of a, a dance, if you will, than it is like a, some kind of an athletic skill. And, you know, short boarding is just, you know, you're going for aerials and lots of different sort of fast maneuvers, really riding in the pocket of the wave. Whereas longboarding, you're looking for a different kind of... You, you ride a different kind of wave altogether. You really don't... Most of the waves we ride for modern short boarding and competition aren't waves you would ride on a longboard 'cause they're too hollow, they're too quick and fast, and you can't fit a longboard in the same way.

Joe Rogan 42:52 So your brother just kind of took it up more for the fun of it and the aesthetic of it?

Kelly Slater 42:56 Yes. Yeah. He literally was at the beach one day, his story, he was about 14 or 15, and we always tried to get him to surf. And when he was about eight or 10, I took him surfing one day at our local, uh, break at Sebastian in Florida. And, and I pushed him on this wave and he, he ate it and was underwater a long time. It kind of freaked him out. Not a long time, I mean, long time for an eight-year-old, like maybe 10 seconds or eight seconds.

Joe Rogan 43:16 Right.

Kelly Slater 43:16 You know, when you're out of breath. A little freaky, like you don't know which way is up. And he kind of quit surfing. And then when he was like 14 or 15, he's at the beach, and this guy he, he-... he really respected this kind of older guy. He's like, "Hey, I'm gonna run somewhere. Will you watch my board?" Uh, he had a longboard. And he said, "Will you watch my board?" And, and Steven said, "Oh, yeah, I'll watch it." And the guy said, "Here, you can go use it if you want." And he paddled out and caught a few waves, and he just gor- sort of fell in love that minute, uh, with surfing. And it was something unique for him 'cause we didn't longboard. So it was like, it was that beach life and thing we love, but it was different, you know?

Joe Rogan 43:49 Right. He got his own thing.

Kelly Slater 43:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 43:51 And then me and my brother, we, y- you know, I got more and more into competition and getting sponsors and stuff. And, and he sort of, he, he just kind of started fading out of doing competition full-time and stuff. And, and, uh, and, uh, then y- uh, when I was a teenager, when I was in, a ju- a, a freshman in high school, this guy moved into town, uh, this kid named Drew. And he had sort of got kicked out of a couple schools elsewhere and, uh, got himself in some trouble. And when he came to, came over to the beach, he was kind of in these inland schools. But he was good at football, good at baseball. He was kind of a really good athlete. Uh, he became the quarterback on our football team. He was a baseball player, all this kind of stuff. So he was, he was a total jock, not a surfer at all. And somehow, he and I became best buddies. And, uh, you know, I liked, I liked all the sports. I grew up playing football, basketball, baseball, little bit of tennis. Um, and, and he and I, ultimately where we got to was he sort of became my big brother competitively. And we used to battle, and it didn't matter whose feelings got hurt, you know? Like, we competed at absolutely everything from horseshoes to bowling to pool.

Joe Rogan 45:02 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:02 On my birthday, every year on my birthday, we made it a pact to where we'd go play every kind of game we could possibly and we'd keep a tally of who won what. It was mini ...

Joe Rogan 45:09 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:09 It was putt-putt golf.

Joe Rogan 45:11 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:11 It was go-karts. It was basketball. It was shuffleboard. It was like literally everything. Air ho- you know, everything we could think of. And, uh, we'd just keep a tally, and we, we used to bet into millions of dollars.

Joe Rogan 45:24 Really?

Kelly Slater 45:25 Yeah. Well, yeah, of course. We, so, you know, at some point, somebody owed somebody hundreds of millions of dollars.

Joe Rogan 45:30 (laughs) But you never paid.

Kelly Slater 45:32 No, of course. I mean-

Joe Rogan 45:33 Oh, okay.

Kelly Slater 45:33 ... when it came down to, like, actual money, then it was like five bucks, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:37 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:38 (laughs) And, and at, uh, one point, he, he was, uh, he got really into horseshoes, and he called me out one day. And he's like, "Can you meet me at the beach? We're gonna play some horseshoes."

Joe Rogan 45:47 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:47 I'm like, "All right. Bye-bye." I'm like, "But I'm not playing you unless we're betting some money, like some real money." And he's like, "All right. Bring some money." And at the end of the day, he ended up owing me about 160 bucks.

Joe Rogan 45:56 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 45:57 And he's like, "You fucking tell my wife I owe you, I'll fucking kill you now and never pay you."

Joe Rogan 46:02 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 46:02 He's like, "I don't have the money. I can't pay you that." He's like, "So I'll pay you like 20 bucks here and there as we go." But Drew used to ... He beat me at everything. He was better than me at basically everything. And so it was like that and Ping-Pong too. On my 18th birthday, the ... I like to call it the night of upsets because it was the night that Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas. And it was, it was, uh, the night of February 10th. My birthday's on the 11th, on the 11th, but they were in Tokyo, so they were on the 11th fighting. Tyson lost. Drew shows up at my house with a ping-pong table, and he says that ... And it was like my birthday gift. All my friends bought me this ping-pong table, my mom, my three buddies. And Drew beat me 17 straight games in a row, and I started crying. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:47 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 46:48 And, uh, I think he ended up letting me finally win the last game so we could go to bed.

Joe Rogan 46:52 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 46:52 And it was like 2:00 in the morning. And man, I've never been, I've really honestly never been so frustrated and just outright beaten by somebody at anything. And he just owned ... I just knew he owned me. And he would just tell me where he was gonna hit the ball on the table and beat me.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Ping-pong is a serious skill.

Kelly Slater 47:07 It's a skill, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:07 Like, the people that are really good at it ...

Kelly Slater 47:09 Oh, follow ... You should go on Pongfinity on Instagram and watch these things these guys do. It's out of hand.

Joe Rogan 47:15 I'm scared.

Kelly Slater 47:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Ping-pong's one of those games where, uh, I was like, "If I ever got into that, I think it would like eat your life."

Kelly Slater 47:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:22 It seems like there's so many levels to it.

Kelly Slater 47:24 Yeah, we used to stay up all night.

Joe Rogan 47:25 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 47:25 And, you know, we sucked.

Joe Rogan 47:26 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 47:26 And we thought we were pretty good, you know. We'd, we'd, uh, you know, use soap and water to make our, our paddles a little stickier, you know.

Joe Rogan 47:33 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 47:33 We thought we had all this spin and stuff.

Joe Rogan 47:35 What the fuck? Look at these guys.

Kelly Slater 47:36 But these guys-

Joe Rogan 47:36 They're playing three-way?

Kelly Slater 47:37 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:37 That is crazy.

Kelly Slater 47:38 I mean, that's not the kind of three-way you like, you know.

Joe Rogan 47:42 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 47:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:43 It's a strange sport.

Kelly Slater 47:44 But ... And they're smashing the ... And they're, they're, and they're just smashing the ball, and it's like ...

Joe Rogan 47:48 This is crazy. And oh!

Kelly Slater 47:50 Look at this.

Joe Rogan 47:50 Whoa, behind the back. And is there money in ping-pong?

Kelly Slater 47:54 I don't know. I w- I, I think-

Joe Rogan 47:56 Look at that.

Kelly Slater 47:56 ... there are for, you know, in China or something.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Right.

Kelly Slater 47:58 Like, I don't think in the States there really is, but-

Joe Rogan 48:00 That's the same thing with pool now.

Kelly Slater 48:02 But I don't know. I don't see some White guy going to China and beating all those guys. They ... You've seen, these guys are masters.

Joe Rogan 48:06 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 48:06 They don't move, you know. They just ... Their, their wrist moves.

Joe Rogan 48:09 Right.

Kelly Slater 48:10 There's no dancing, you know.

Joe Rogan 48:12 Yeah, it seems like one of those sports where there's just, there's a whole, there's a whole world out there that you're not aware of-

Kelly Slater 48:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:19 ... of like elite killer ping-pong players.

Kelly Slater 48:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Like, most people aren't even thinking about it.

Kelly Slater 48:23 Yeah. It's funny, though.

Joe Rogan 48:24 You know? It's funny 'cause-

Kelly Slater 48:26 It's, it's funny 'cause we could, we could talk about ping-pong, and it's f- like everyone can kind of join in. Like, if I ever talk about fighting, people are, "Shut your ass, man. You stay in your lane."

Joe Rogan 48:34 Oh.

Kelly Slater 48:34 But, you know, it's like-

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 48:35 ... I'm a fan of ping-pong too. I'll talk about ping-pong.

Joe Rogan 48:38 That's a funny thing, that stay in your lane thing, like you're not allowed to have an opinion on things.

Kelly Slater 48:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:43 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 48:43 Yeah. So then why can we vote, you know, about-

Joe Rogan 48:46 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 48:46 ... somebody's gonna handle everything, you know? Why are we allowed to ... Can we only just vote, be, about something that has to do with surfing or fighting?

Joe Rogan 48:51 Well, fighting is a weird one. Like, people want ... You ha- for, for some people, like you have to know how to fight to be able to talk about fighting.

Kelly Slater 48:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Like, they get real serious about that. Like, you hear that about journalists. Like, "Look at this fucking guy, probably never trained a day in his life." You know, they look-

Kelly Slater 49:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:06 ... at a guy and he's fat or tiny-

Kelly Slater 49:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:08 ... or whatever, and they just don't want to listen to anything that they say. But meanwhile, they could be an expert.

Kelly Slater 49:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:13 And-

Kelly Slater 49:13 I mean, fight Roy Nelson.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 49:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Right.

Kelly Slater 49:15 Go have fun.... have fun with that one. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:18 Yeah, good luck. Yeah. But it's, uh, it's-

Kelly Slater 49:19 When I was a kid, I trained with Don 'The Dragon' Wilson.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Oh, did you really?

Kelly Slater 49:22 Yeah, I did, for about a year, six months or a year.

Joe Rogan 49:24 I got a chance to spar him once.

Kelly Slater 49:25 Did you?

Joe Rogan 49:25 It was awesome. Yeah, it was so... To me, it was like, I'm such a fan of that guy from-

Kelly Slater 49:29 He was totally ambidextrous, wasn't he?

Joe Rogan 49:31 Oh, yeah, he could fight a- a- any style. And he, I mean, he, he also had that weird, uh, sideways stance-

Kelly Slater 49:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 ... where, you know, he had, like, kickboxing skills, boxing skills, Muay Thai skills, but he also had, like, a traditional karate and kung fu background, so he'd stand sideways on you and move weird.

Kelly Slater 49:46 And you didn't know what was coming at you then, right?

Joe Rogan 49:47 Yeah. No, he was awesome. And I remember when he fought Dennis Alexiou. Dennis Alexiou was like-

Kelly Slater 49:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:53 ... a monster.

Kelly Slater 49:53 He moved to the west side of Oahu, and-

Joe Rogan 49:55 Oh, yeah.

Kelly Slater 49:55 ... that was, like, all the news back in the '90s, '80s or '90s. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Alexiou? Oh, really?

Kelly Slater 49:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:59 Yeah, and he fucked Alexiou up with leg kicks. He was, like, one of the first guys that punished Alexiou with leg kicks.

Kelly Slater 50:04 He did a thing on YouTube about, um, defen- defense for, self-defense for women, and they were saying like, "You're gonna-"

Joe Rogan 50:10 Don Wilson did?

Kelly Slater 50:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:10 Yeah?

Kelly Slater 50:10 He was part of this group. And they, they talked about, like, you know, if you're gonna teach a woman something, kick in the, kick the leg, 'cause that's the biggest target-

Joe Rogan 50:17 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 50:17 ... you know. I don't know. Self-defense.

Joe Rogan 50:18 It's not bad advice. Before jujitsu, people-

Kelly Slater 50:20 Kick the balls.

Joe Rogan 50:21 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 50:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:22 But w- your legs carry you around. I mean, that's the thing about a woman. If a woman weighs 135 pounds, she's walking around with 135 pounds, carrying it.

Kelly Slater 50:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:31 Like how, uh how long could you walk on your hands?

Kelly Slater 50:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:34 I mean, I heard that Brock Lesnar can walk on his hands, like a mile, which is kinda crazy.

Kelly Slater 50:38 Brock Lesnar?

Joe Rogan 50:38 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 50:39 Really?

Joe Rogan 50:39 He's a freak. Like a legitimate freak.

Kelly Slater 50:42 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 50:42 He walks on his hands all around the gym. Yeah. And he weighs 280 pounds.

Kelly Slater 50:44 He should do, he should do a video, like walking up the stairs. I had a buddy, a surf buddy from, um, from Santa Cruz. He unfortunately passed away. Guy named, uh, Barney, good friend of all of ours. And he used to do these surf video clips, and he would walk down stairs.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Whoa.

Kelly Slater 50:59 And then walk up stairs. And he'd literally, he could literally just walk anywhere on his hands. It was so cool to see.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Well, I mean, I guess you would build it... I mean, it's all about how often you use it, right? You use your legs constantly, you don't use your arms constantly.

Kelly Slater 51:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:11 But if you did, and you built up over years of time, I would imagine... I mean, there's obviously there's gymnasts-

Kelly Slater 51:16 And it can happen quick too, you know? I mean, I started doing hand... Actually, right before I broke my foot, I started get-... When I was a kid, I used to be able to pretty much walk endless on my hands. Like I-

Joe Rogan 51:25 So what, you walked on your hands while your foot was broken?

Kelly Slater 51:27 Uh, no (laughs) , but uh, that week, I was like, "You know what? When I was a kid, I could walk for minutes at a time on my hands. I'm gonna get back into that." So I started training that week. Like, I just started doing handstands every day with my friend's daughter.

Joe Rogan 51:37 Before you broke your foot?

Kelly Slater 51:38 Right, the week I broke my f-... Like, for the two-

Joe Rogan 51:39 Wow.

Kelly Slater 51:40 ... weeks before I broke my foot. And I started, like, quickly I could feel the skill coming back, you know. I mean, I probably shoulda kept with it, 'cause then I coulda walked around for a while and kept my foot high.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Right. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 51:50 But, uh, no but it, I mean, my point is that, like, pretty quickly, your body starts to attune to that thing.

Joe Rogan 51:54 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 51:54 Like, I used to do push-ups on the back of my wrists. This buddy of mine who was into some martial arts, he's like, "Do wrist push-ups." And if-

Joe Rogan 52:01 Well, what's the benefit of that?

Kelly Slater 52:02 He was just saying to strengthen your wrists. I don't know. He used to do it. But the first time-

Joe Rogan 52:06 Hmm.

Kelly Slater 52:06 ... I did it, it really hurt my wrists. And then after about a week of doing it, it didn't hurt my wrists anymore. Your body just kind of adjusts quickly.

Joe Rogan 52:12 Adapts. Yeah.

Kelly Slater 52:13 Yeah. And, but, I don't know. I think I'm gonna start doing handstands and doing that, uh, Burmese, uh, volleyball thing.

Joe Rogan 52:21 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 52:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:21 How long did it take... I mean, were you, were you on crutches or were you in, in a wheelchair? Like, how long did it take before you could actually walk-

Kelly Slater 52:27 Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:28 ... after you broke your foot?

Kelly Slater 52:30 Well, I was walking a little too soon.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Oh, were you?

Kelly Slater 52:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:33 How long?

Kelly Slater 52:33 I didn't, I didn't break it, but I didn't displace the bones any, but, I mean, I, I actually rode, I rode a couple waves like six weeks later.

Joe Rogan 52:40 No.

Kelly Slater 52:41 Yeah. I probably shouldn't have.

Joe Rogan 52:42 Why would you do that?

Kelly Slater 52:43 Well, 'cause we built this wave up, like, uh, up near Fresno. We built a man-made wave. And, um...

Joe Rogan 52:49 Are those a good way to learn?

Kelly Slater 52:51 Yeah. They... Well, yeah, they can be. I mean, it depends on how long the wave lasts and what size wave and how fast and all that kind of thing. But our wave's pretty easy to learn on. But it, our wave lasts, on the low speed for a beginner, it lasts like over a minute long.

Joe Rogan 53:05 That what seems to me that that would be a great way to, like, just get your feet wet.

Kelly Slater 53:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:10 No pun intended.

Kelly Slater 53:10 You should, you should come up.

Joe Rogan 53:11 Is that it right there?

Kelly Slater 53:12 Yeah, but that's not the low setting.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Kelly's Wave. Look at you.

Kelly Slater 53:13 That one's like the, uh... That's like-

Joe Rogan 53:15 That's the high setting?

Kelly Slater 53:16 Yeah. This was... And this was actually the-

Joe Rogan 53:18 Where is that? Like, is that a, a outside area?

Kelly Slater 53:20 It's like 40 minutes south of Fresno. Yeah. It's a big l- it used to be a ski lake, so it's long narrow lake.

Joe Rogan 53:26 Oh, wow.

Kelly Slater 53:27 Um-

Joe Rogan 53:27 That is crazy.

Kelly Slater 53:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:29 That's all man-made?

Kelly Slater 53:30 This is man-made.

Joe Rogan 53:31 That's so weird.

Kelly Slater 53:32 This isn't the newest version of it.

Joe Rogan 53:34 Th-

Kelly Slater 53:34 If you were to google, uh, if you were to search like, um, uh, there was a contest called, uh, we had a couple contests. We had one called the, the Surf Ranch Pro about six weeks ago, and that's... We changed the waves since then, and, uh, we remodeled it. We had to rebuild it, but... Um, anyways, the, the reason I surfed was 'cause we were having the first competition at this wave, and I wanted to ride the first wave. Like, uh, I didn't, wasn't gonna compete, I just-

Joe Rogan 54:02 Right.

Kelly Slater 54:02 ... like, symbolically I wanted to ride the wave at the thing.

Joe Rogan 54:05 So, uh, h- how does this work? What, what's making that wave?

Kelly Slater 54:08 This is a, a, a foil, a wave foil. Like, uh, in the back it looks... Sometimes you'll see in the back behind the wave, not there, but to the left side more, you would see this thing. It's a, it's basically a super inefficient boat hull, and it pushes through the water. And so it's pushing water instead of planing on the water, like you would want a boat to. So it's pushing all the water sideways, and it's, it's just this foil shape. It's almost like the shape of a fin or a wing straight up and down in the water. It's that blue thing in the back, and it rides it. It's like a roller coaster.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Oh.

Kelly Slater 54:38 And, uh, it gets pulled on a pulley system with a 4,000 horsepower engine. There's two of them actually.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Wow.

Kelly Slater 54:46 Uh, either- one to go either direction. So you see it's... Now they've got their back to the wave, and they're riding it their first few waves they should be... This is Stephanie Gilmore. She's like six-time world champ. Um, this is, uh, that's me obviously. Um, this was just about six weeks ago, in September. And, um, so yeah, I mean, I'd, I, uh, designed the technology with a scientist and then designed the actual, uh, reef bottom or concrete bottom that, that makes the wave break.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Yeah, because this seems way more advanced than the ones that I've seen.

Kelly Slater 55:17 Yeah, this is, it's a really advanced wave. It's actually longer than it needs to be also, 'cause at a fast speed, the wave's still like 45 seconds, and your legs are fried.This is Felipe Toledo, who's number two in the world right now.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Wow.

Kelly Slater 55:28 He's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 55:29 That's crazy.

Kelly Slater 55:30 Super fast, great surfer.

Joe Rogan 55:32 Where's he from?

Kelly Slater 55:33 Uh, Brazil.

Joe Rogan 55:34 A lot of sur- surfers come from Brazil?

Kelly Slater 55:36 (laughs) The, all the new good guys are from Brazil. It's like the fight l- fight game, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:41 Wow.

Kelly Slater 55:41 This is, uh, Gabriel Medina.

Joe Rogan 55:42 That's, that guy's incredible.

Kelly Slater 55:44 He's, uh, he's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 55:45 Whoa.

Kelly Slater 55:46 And he's, uh-

Joe Rogan 55:47 What fucking balance. That's crazy.

Kelly Slater 55:49 That's called a shuvit. Yeah, um, and I think that was a corrupt flip he did. Um, super high tech moves but... He, Gabriel Medina's one time world champ from a few years ago, but I thought he was, you know, I thought he was just gonna win year after year after year after his first title. I don't know if he got complacent or what happened. I don't, he and I aren't like super close, but-

Joe Rogan 56:11 How do they judge? Like how do they judge? Like-

Kelly Slater 56:13 It's, it's s- subjective.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 56:15 Um, that's the, probably the tough thing for our sport, but I mean, gymnastics is subjective. Um, ice skating, you know, that kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Mm-hmm. Gymnastics, yeah. Good one.

Kelly Slater 56:22 So it's, it's, it's not too different, t- and it's not too dissimilar to that. So, you know, the judges are all good surfers, relatively good surfers. Maybe not ex-pros, but you know, guys who know what is possible-

Joe Rogan 56:33 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 56:33 ... on a wave. And, um, they're, it's pretty easy for them to c- compare apples to oranges. A different person's skills over the other one. Um, but it would be interesting in UFC, you know, if, if you had judges subjectively judging. Not, not necessarily like who won the round or looking at strike counts, but like, whose style did I like?

Joe Rogan 56:52 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 56:52 How fast and how much power did he have? How did he link his, you know, h- strikes together? How were the takedowns?

Joe Rogan 56:57 There's definitely a subjective element to it, but unfortunately (clears throat) unlike surfing, the UFC's not com- the judges, they're not, it's not comprised of former fighters or people that really know a lot about-

Kelly Slater 57:07 Which is-

Joe Rogan 57:07 ... martial arts.

Kelly Slater 57:07 Which is wrong.

Joe Rogan 57:10 It's awful.

Kelly Slater 57:10 Totally wrong.

Joe Rogan 57:10 It's awful.

Kelly Slater 57:11 I mean, some, some surfers really believe that the judges should just be ex-pros that were tour level guys, um, that, that make those calls.

Joe Rogan 57:19 Seems like there's enough of those guys out there, right?

Kelly Slater 57:21 There are, there may be but, you know, getting back to why ... that kind of leads me back to, like, you asked why guys didn't have the longevity. Look, people get married, have kids, um, have a life back home. All that kind of stuff so, you know, I was sort of, I went a not quite the traditional route with all that stuff. Um, so I had a lot more time, focus, dedication into what I was doing. And I wanted to do it for a long time because I just love surfing and, I mean, ev- if, if I had my druthers every day I'm going to wake up and go ride waves.

Joe Rogan 57:51 Now is there a point system that they score on? Like-

Kelly Slater 57:54 Yep, out of 10.

Joe Rogan 57:55 Out of 10, oh so it's a lot like boxing.

Kelly Slater 57:58 Out of 10. Not everybody gets a nine. If they lose-

Joe Rogan 58:00 Mm.

Kelly Slater 58:00 ... that battle, you know. It's, um-

Joe Rogan 58:02 10 is the max?

Kelly Slater 58:03 10's max but I mean, more average you're seeing threes and fours than you are eights and nines, 'cause, you know, it's just a certain wave and a certain skill set gets you up to that excellent category. So we consider eight and up excellent and, you know, s- sort of six, five, to eight is like really good. And then there's-

Joe Rogan 58:22 And is there a lot of, uh, this debate about whether or not a, a, a, a, a nine is, is, uh, is accurate for someone's ride?

Kelly Slater 58:30 Yeah. Yeah, there is. Well, if, if it's early ... There's a lot to it, you know. There, like, if it's early in a heat and a guy gets a nine or m- girl gets a nine and then you think that there's a lot more that could've been done either on that day in those types of waves or on that wave specifically. Like, some, uh, occasionally you'll see somebody get a 10. Perfect ride, as good as you can possibly do. It's the ultimate, you should remember that wave forever kind of thing, you know. It's like the perfect knockout. And, but then they won't ride, they'll kick off the wave when there's more to ride or they'll fall and they still get a 10. So like, sometimes you'll see somebody get a really good score and you know a lot more could've been done. They could've been deeper in that tube, they could've been higher in that air, they could've rotated, they could've m- you know, more they could've ... In the air they could've ridden out, like, smoother. It, it could've linked a couple different, more difficult turns together, added more variety. So you, you have to kind of like, i- if anything scale down, I think, as a judge.

Joe Rogan 59:26 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 59:26 As opposed to scale up because then you, if, if you're surfing in really great waves, which makes it easier to get a good score, so like Teahupo'o in Tahiti. If you, if you pull up, um, Tahiti, um, Teahupo'o, T-E-A-H-U-P-O-O, um, contest 2014. So we had really unbelievable waves in this contest. Um, almost every wave looked like it could be a 10. Then it comes down to, like, how late did you drop in? How critical was it? How deep were you? How did you maximize your time in there by slowing your speed? How much risk did you take? So even though the wave only lasted about five seconds, there's a whole lot that can be condensed into that five seconds. And did you wait for one of the biggest waves or did you take a smaller wave and take in ... Go, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Whoa.

Kelly Slater 1:00:14 ... a little bit easier. So-

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 What is it like when one of those giant tubes-

Kelly Slater 1:00:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 ... crashes down on top of you?

Kelly Slater 1:00:20 Um, yeah, so this is Gabe Medina. Um, he w- he ended up winning the contest. Um, it's not super fun when you eat it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Yeah. I could imagine. It's horrific.

Kelly Slater 1:00:28 I mean, you've probably talked to Shane. That's me actually.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Yeah, I've talked to Shane about it.

Kelly Slater 1:00:32 Yeah, and I mean, look Shane, no one's more of an authority than Shane is. Maybe not in the super hollow crazy stuff. I mean s- whatever. Shane rides everything but the biggest waves in the world, Shane's the authority. Like he's had wipe outs that he, he came close to dying. He probably talked to you about the vest he created because of that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 1:00:51 He almost drowned. He created a vest that you pull the CO2 cartridge and it blasts, you know, this big bladder and lifts you to the surface. Even if you get knocked out or take in water, somebody's gonna find you and probably save you. Um-But yeah, this is, that's me there. (exhales) Sorry I didn't make that, but... That wasn't even a, a big one, you know, that, that, for that day-

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 (laughs)

Kelly Slater 1:01:09 ... that was a small wave.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 It's fucking huge though, when that's coming down on you.

Kelly Slater 1:01:12 Yeah. But see where I'm at?

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 1:01:13 I'm kind of in blue water.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 Right.

Kelly Slater 1:01:14 So I was able to dive and kind of get under it and not get sucked back over.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Oh, I see.

Kelly Slater 1:01:18 So there's a little bit of a skill that goes with wiping out. So you understand that energy, it's... You know, it's like a, it's like a tornado or like a hurricane.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 1:01:25 Like, the eye wall is the worst, but if you're in the center you're fine.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 1:01:29 You know, I always, I've always wondered, like, could you follow a hurricane inside the center of the eye? Like, could you just stay with it and be okay?

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 I bet you could if you moved at a really slow speed, right? They don't move that fast.

Kelly Slater 1:01:38 They only move about 10 to 20 miles an hour.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Right. Can you-

Kelly Slater 1:01:40 Sometimes less.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 Can a plane go that slow?

Kelly Slater 1:01:43 No, but maybe you could stay in your car.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Circle? Right. (laughs)

Kelly Slater 1:01:45 And kind of like, you know, find a road. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 If you had a really good GPS system.

Kelly Slater 1:01:49 And you got a good radar guy-

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 "Do not go right."

Kelly Slater 1:01:51 Okay, going north.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 "Do not go left." Yeah.

Kelly Slater 1:01:52 "No, no, no, don't go northwest, go northeast."

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 1:01:55 Um...

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 "Okay, you're gonna have to go off-road-"

Kelly Slater 1:01:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 "... or you'll die."

Kelly Slater 1:01:58 But so that energy, all that energy-

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Yeah.

Kelly Slater 1:01:59 ... is in where the lip, where the... You know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Mm-hmm.

Kelly Slater 1:02:01 If you're in the center of that, you're pretty safe.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Right.

Kelly Slater 1:02:03 But as soon as you get sucked in, right into the wall, that, and you get pitched in the lip-

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 Mm.

Kelly Slater 1:02:07 That's when the lip spreads the water that it hits and it sends you right down to the reef. Especially in, uh, a place like this where it's... When you see a wave that's real hollow, it's generally a lot shallower than it is, um, high. So the wave will be 15 feet and the wave, water might only be five or six feet deep.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 Oh.

Kelly Slater 1:02:22 So think of all that energy, it's gonna hit, most